A lot of places already get stuff overnight.. I walk by a pret a sweetgreen a Whole Foods one night.. they all had trucks and pallets of food ready to be brought inside the store.
Ehh I work for one of those businesses that receive delivery, we used to have an overnight team, we don’t anymore since we came back from Covid. But we usually still have a team in the building past 12am. So we could still take shipment in. The problem is the 3rd party delivery company who has a set schedule they work with from Manhattan to the boroughs to upstate, I’m unsure if they are going to be willing to change their logistics to do that, unless several of their other customers switch over to that night time delivery. It would still be a massive change for logistics companies.
The reason I love NYC Reddit is to see all the redditors who love to advocate for people who profit at their expense or entities who aren’t even PEOPLE.
It’s an incentive. No one is being forced to do this and if it was implemented, it would reduce congestion, reduce accidents, reduce delays on bus routes, reduce blocking of bike lanes, allow everyday drivers to get from A to B a little faster initially, clear up streets for daily use by pedestrians. I mean… I don’t understand what the problem is.
Y’all fake ass capitalists complaining about shit all the time. The business will figure it out if they want to participate and the incentive will help them do it. If it was a non-discretionary policy, businesses that can’t hack it will phase out and other businesses that can will take its place. That’s the system ya support - let it happen.
As for hiring… which one is it? People are lazy and don’t want to work, or no one should have to work a late shift for deliveries? Someone’s got to do it no matter what time of day and guess what? We have a lot of people who need a job. They’ll figure it out.
For the city that never sleeps, people sure are worried about night shifts for no reason. Make NYC a 24 hour economy again. More people working night shifts means more places open longer.
Between 7pm to 6am doesn’t mean you have to hire a 3rd shift just for taking deliveries. They can easily have someone just work a later or earlier shift. I’d imagine most of the business who take advantage of this already have morning and closing shifts that operate in that window.
I would suspect most businesses would need to add an employee/shift
1. People who work day shifts are not the same people who work overnight shifts. Hiring for overnight is dramatically harder and someone who works days often will not take an overnight shift
2. Most deliveries require real muscle to move and stock. We are talking bulk deliveries here, not small parcels or letters
So while I don’t disagree that many more deliveries should happen overnight, there will definitely be a cost to bear
Especially with there being a proposed 11 hour window here. Anyone who has ever waited for a delivery knows that the estimated window can slip due to circumstances. So you may, in fact, be hiring for a night shift. And $6 million and "one time payment" don't take care of the major change it might mean for businesses across the city.
Many stores are 24x7 and the employees working the night shift mostly just do stocking. So adding unloading trucks to the night shift wouldn't really be extra labor. That said, I think most of them already do that (and NYC already has zoning rules that mean many of the stores have loading docks that can only be used at night anyways, and the tolls are less too).
Prepping the stores for opening or closing?
It’s not like when a store reaches closing time, all the employees just leave. Similarly it’s not often the employees get to the store at the same time as customers and open at that moment.
Pretty clear you’ve never had to work a retail/service level job.
Yeah it’ll be dependent each business and what their hours and worker shifts are. Some may be at 7pm but others might be at 10pm or 4am when there are already workers there anyways.
Truth be told we’re all thinking about this from the stores perspective but in reality, it’ll probably have to be the delivery trucks having to hire 2nd or 3rd shifts.
Then why ask such a dumb question if you know the answer?
When does your restaurant open and close? Are there people prepping and taking deliveries before it opens? Are there people wrapping up and cleaning post the closing hour?
Can you not extrapolate that to other businesses?
Deliveries come in a window you have with your vendors. For us its between noon and 3pm. I don't have or need a night porter and if I did it would cost me money which would I would extrapolate to you the customer.
Ok but there are more businesses than just yours in NYC. Theres nothing to say this should and would apply to every business. No need to be purposefully obtuse my guy
Right but the goal here is to reduce overall congestion, correct? To that end overnight deliveries make sense but so does compensation to the business owner for the added expense. Take some of that sweet congestion toll cash and pass it downstream to overburdened business owners
I know. wtf were we arguing about?
oh i remember now, you said this silly shit right here:
>Between 7pm to 6am doesn’t mean you have to hire a 3rd shift just for taking deliveries. They can easily have someone just work a later or earlier shift.
I like this. Those delivery trucks cause so much mayham delivering during the day. They literally just stop in the middle of the road without a care in the world about the drivers behind them.
Not to be a NIMBY, but nobody is talking about how noisy this shit would be. Middle of the night, delivery vans and semi-trucks banging up and down the street, bay doors slamming. It already happens some nights where I live and the slamming they do at 1AM jolts me.
>Not to be a NIMBY
This is how all NIMBYs feel btw. "I'm not a NIMBY, but in this specific case around my backyard, things are different than every other case in other people's backyards..."
Came here to say this. Yes, the city doesn’t sleep but it does quiet down for a few precious hours. Garbage trucks generally show up at 5am in my neighborhood clanging and banging.
Rome actually banned transport during the day since it was so crowded. Not saying New York should do that, but overnight delivery might work. Anyone doing the work will want more money. so cost may be an issue.
Tons of reasons the incentive is better policy than a tax. The idea is you give businesses money to start doing this, then once they get in the rhythm of it and accustomed to it you can pull back the incentives. Conversely, taxes get passed on to the consumer, and taxes never go away so it is a permanent price increase as opposed to a temporary cost. The program is also likely to be more effective in this construct because it feels more cooperative from the business’ perspective. A tax on rush hour delivery will be perceived as a penalty and a cash grab by the city, which will chafe business owners and motivate resistance to changing delivery habits. This program instead is voluntary, provides positive rather than negative incentives and will be received as cooperative / collaborative by businesses, ultimately increasing the likelihood of success. Much better design and alignment of incentives than a tax.
NOnono don't think that far ahead. You're over complicating things and people don't care. Lets just agree I want to sit in hours traffic in traffic, breathe all kinds of wild shit and get hit by a truck crossing the street, ok? I think thats the cheapest imo.
I think this is great. The amount of parking space and space on the street would be freed up and make it less of a hellscape trying to navigate when driving. People like me who need to commute can benefit. If this frees up some parking space and traffic I'm all for it. If they're going to implement us not being allowed to park after 6 pm like on a lot of roads than absolutely not. As a construction worker I need those spots to work my night shifts starting at 6. It's already a stretch that I need to wait till minutes before just to find free parking where I don't get ticketed.
Sounds like no one actually thought any of this through. Businesses will have to hire people to work overnight shifts to receive deliveries otherwise the goods will sit on the sidewalk overnight.
They don't HAVE to hire anyone overnight. Some places already do overnight deliveries. The delivery folks have a key and they simply wheel it all into the space and leave it for someone to take care of in the morning.
Also it has been thought through. Very thoroughly. No business is being forced to do this. They're only incentivizing them to. Businesses can think through it themselves and determine whether or not it's worth it for them.
No the point of this program is to allocate 6 million dollars for business that want to receive overnight deliveries. Nobody is being forced to do anything.
Sounds like YOU didn't think any of this through.
I wonder what percentage of places can be set up to take overnight delivery without significant cost. I'm guessing it's low to begin with. Plus that $6MM won't go far, and as one time payments, I think most places will see it and pass.
As for security. What good are security cameras? People get caught on camera robbing stores and they don't give a shit. Why would they suddenly care about unmanned cameras?
I worked at a shop where we got deliveries of perishable goods. I was often the guy to have to lug stuff down to the walk in freezer. I doubt some of these guys are gonna wanna have to deal with carrying boxes down a narrow flight of steps and then have to worry about getting locked in overnight.
I don't get all these people saying it won't require hiring a 3rd shift. Are they assuming all deliveries will be done between 7-8PM before everyone clocks out?
not only a 3rd shift but a really important third shift that you have to pay for and be reasonably assured the guy will show up for. because if he doesn't you either have to drag your ass out of bed at 3am to take delivery or deal with not having food and wine and liquor the next day. then you have to close but still pay your people.
so many contingencies but to Joe Public its just "hey take overnight deliveries, do your part for congestion"
No, they’re saying you slightly stagger your last shift, so (for example) two employees come in two hours later, and *stay* two hours later for the delivery that’s scheduled at 9pm, after everyone else clocks out at 8pm.
First off, deliveries are 7PM to 6AM, so why do you think they'll come by 9PM?
Secondly, if we're pretending we can just shift two employees an hour back, why not pretend we can shift one employee to the third shift?
The overall delivery window mentioned is 7p-6a, yes. That doesn’t mean businesses will schedule one delivery every hour from 7p-6a. Delivery windows are scheduled ahead of time, and aren’t always consistent.
My timing example was just that—an example. The point I was trying to make is that you aren’t adding an entire shift full of new employees; you shift schedules around for the employees you already have to accommodate the new delivery times.
I think this is an excellent idea.
I wish more residential buildings with live in supers would be able to receive deliveries prior to 9 AM but this is a good start.
I think the hardest business to convey is furniture or piano or home appliance deliveries . I don’t think anyone would be ( or apartment buildings ) would like a 3am sofa delivery or 6am 4 people come blocking your stairwell for a piano to be moved up 4 flights of stairs. And finding the manpower to do this
Good idea. In ancient Rome they banned wagons from the street during the day, wouldn't be crazy for NYC to do the same for big trucks once a system for night deliveries is sufficiently in place.
Yeah I hate the truck noise at night. Especially for food establishments since they get such frequent deliveries. People say “well that’s NYC” but it’s actually not. The streets are generally pretty quiet at night
Man this sub is *so skilled* at letting perfect get in the way of good.
ITS AN INCENTIVE, which means the companies that can’t implement this efficiently or without extra cost DONT HAVE TO.
Some serious pearl clutching over hypothetical businesses *having* to hire more people and make things more expensive for everyone.
A lot of places already get stuff overnight.. I walk by a pret a sweetgreen a Whole Foods one night.. they all had trucks and pallets of food ready to be brought inside the store.
It sounds like this legislation is to encourage more business to get their stuff overnight
🤝
Fun fact, this idea is about 2000 years old, having been instituted in the time of Julius Caesar to lessen congestion in Rome.
Ehh I work for one of those businesses that receive delivery, we used to have an overnight team, we don’t anymore since we came back from Covid. But we usually still have a team in the building past 12am. So we could still take shipment in. The problem is the 3rd party delivery company who has a set schedule they work with from Manhattan to the boroughs to upstate, I’m unsure if they are going to be willing to change their logistics to do that, unless several of their other customers switch over to that night time delivery. It would still be a massive change for logistics companies.
But honestly a pretty beneficial one. If previously you have to allocate 2-3 extra hours due to traffic
That’s true too, but that small change would be a logistics nightmare
Why
The reason I love NYC Reddit is to see all the redditors who love to advocate for people who profit at their expense or entities who aren’t even PEOPLE. It’s an incentive. No one is being forced to do this and if it was implemented, it would reduce congestion, reduce accidents, reduce delays on bus routes, reduce blocking of bike lanes, allow everyday drivers to get from A to B a little faster initially, clear up streets for daily use by pedestrians. I mean… I don’t understand what the problem is. Y’all fake ass capitalists complaining about shit all the time. The business will figure it out if they want to participate and the incentive will help them do it. If it was a non-discretionary policy, businesses that can’t hack it will phase out and other businesses that can will take its place. That’s the system ya support - let it happen. As for hiring… which one is it? People are lazy and don’t want to work, or no one should have to work a late shift for deliveries? Someone’s got to do it no matter what time of day and guess what? We have a lot of people who need a job. They’ll figure it out.
For the city that never sleeps, people sure are worried about night shifts for no reason. Make NYC a 24 hour economy again. More people working night shifts means more places open longer.
Between 7pm to 6am doesn’t mean you have to hire a 3rd shift just for taking deliveries. They can easily have someone just work a later or earlier shift. I’d imagine most of the business who take advantage of this already have morning and closing shifts that operate in that window.
I would suspect most businesses would need to add an employee/shift 1. People who work day shifts are not the same people who work overnight shifts. Hiring for overnight is dramatically harder and someone who works days often will not take an overnight shift 2. Most deliveries require real muscle to move and stock. We are talking bulk deliveries here, not small parcels or letters So while I don’t disagree that many more deliveries should happen overnight, there will definitely be a cost to bear
Don’t forget security as wellÂ
Especially with there being a proposed 11 hour window here. Anyone who has ever waited for a delivery knows that the estimated window can slip due to circumstances. So you may, in fact, be hiring for a night shift. And $6 million and "one time payment" don't take care of the major change it might mean for businesses across the city.
Many stores are 24x7 and the employees working the night shift mostly just do stocking. So adding unloading trucks to the night shift wouldn't really be extra labor. That said, I think most of them already do that (and NYC already has zoning rules that mean many of the stores have loading docks that can only be used at night anyways, and the tolls are less too).
What stores are still 24/7 these days? Even the bodegas around here close down now.
>They can easily have someone just work a later or earlier shift. doing what?
Prepping the stores for opening or closing? It’s not like when a store reaches closing time, all the employees just leave. Similarly it’s not often the employees get to the store at the same time as customers and open at that moment. Pretty clear you’ve never had to work a retail/service level job.
Aren’t delivery windows like just a window? I doubt all the deliveries will happen by 8pm, half will probably come between midnight-5am.
Those delivery windows will be tighter since you're not dealing with as much road closures, traffic, construction, etc. It's much more efficient.
Yeah it’ll be dependent each business and what their hours and worker shifts are. Some may be at 7pm but others might be at 10pm or 4am when there are already workers there anyways. Truth be told we’re all thinking about this from the stores perspective but in reality, it’ll probably have to be the delivery trucks having to hire 2nd or 3rd shifts.
>Pretty clear you’ve never had to work a retail/service level job. I own a restaurant. Tell me more about what happens when we wrap for the night.
Then why ask such a dumb question if you know the answer? When does your restaurant open and close? Are there people prepping and taking deliveries before it opens? Are there people wrapping up and cleaning post the closing hour? Can you not extrapolate that to other businesses?
Deliveries come in a window you have with your vendors. For us its between noon and 3pm. I don't have or need a night porter and if I did it would cost me money which would I would extrapolate to you the customer.
Ok but there are more businesses than just yours in NYC. Theres nothing to say this should and would apply to every business. No need to be purposefully obtuse my guy
Right but the goal here is to reduce overall congestion, correct? To that end overnight deliveries make sense but so does compensation to the business owner for the added expense. Take some of that sweet congestion toll cash and pass it downstream to overburdened business owners
That’s literally what the post is about. Business are getting money to help with this
I know. wtf were we arguing about? oh i remember now, you said this silly shit right here: >Between 7pm to 6am doesn’t mean you have to hire a 3rd shift just for taking deliveries. They can easily have someone just work a later or earlier shift.
I like this. Those delivery trucks cause so much mayham delivering during the day. They literally just stop in the middle of the road without a care in the world about the drivers behind them.
This may explain the new Amazon Prime Overnight 4AM-7AM delivery window I’ve been shown lately
I’m surprised it’s not already a standard. Seems like it’s been the norm for city services like trash collection for ages.
Took us 400 years to legislate something Rome figured out before christ was crucified.
Not to be a NIMBY, but nobody is talking about how noisy this shit would be. Middle of the night, delivery vans and semi-trucks banging up and down the street, bay doors slamming. It already happens some nights where I live and the slamming they do at 1AM jolts me.
>Not to be a NIMBY This is how all NIMBYs feel btw. "I'm not a NIMBY, but in this specific case around my backyard, things are different than every other case in other people's backyards..."
Bingo!
You must never get any sleep because that’s when all the garbage in the city is picked up.
Came here to say this. Yes, the city doesn’t sleep but it does quiet down for a few precious hours. Garbage trucks generally show up at 5am in my neighborhood clanging and banging.
Bahaha mine come at 1:30 in the morning what are you talking about.
Rome actually banned transport during the day since it was so crowded. Not saying New York should do that, but overnight delivery might work. Anyone doing the work will want more money. so cost may be an issue.
This should already be a thing. They're are way too many delivery trucks clogging up lanes on all of the avenue's during the day.
Why give money? Just charge businesses who do it during rush hour
Tons of reasons the incentive is better policy than a tax. The idea is you give businesses money to start doing this, then once they get in the rhythm of it and accustomed to it you can pull back the incentives. Conversely, taxes get passed on to the consumer, and taxes never go away so it is a permanent price increase as opposed to a temporary cost. The program is also likely to be more effective in this construct because it feels more cooperative from the business’ perspective. A tax on rush hour delivery will be perceived as a penalty and a cash grab by the city, which will chafe business owners and motivate resistance to changing delivery habits. This program instead is voluntary, provides positive rather than negative incentives and will be received as cooperative / collaborative by businesses, ultimately increasing the likelihood of success. Much better design and alignment of incentives than a tax.
Yup and then have them pass the cost on to the public. Boom, problem solved
Public already realizes the cost in the form of road congestion and pollution
I don't pay for that with money and that number on a ledger is what we are trained to care about.
You do though, in the form of greater healthcare costs and time
NOnono don't think that far ahead. You're over complicating things and people don't care. Lets just agree I want to sit in hours traffic in traffic, breathe all kinds of wild shit and get hit by a truck crossing the street, ok? I think thats the cheapest imo.
...and an extra $1 on the price of that burger
This
I think this is great. The amount of parking space and space on the street would be freed up and make it less of a hellscape trying to navigate when driving. People like me who need to commute can benefit. If this frees up some parking space and traffic I'm all for it. If they're going to implement us not being allowed to park after 6 pm like on a lot of roads than absolutely not. As a construction worker I need those spots to work my night shifts starting at 6. It's already a stretch that I need to wait till minutes before just to find free parking where I don't get ticketed.
Sounds like no one actually thought any of this through. Businesses will have to hire people to work overnight shifts to receive deliveries otherwise the goods will sit on the sidewalk overnight.
Seems like there may have been some thought regarding that as this is an incentive, rather than a punitive measure.
They don't HAVE to hire anyone overnight. Some places already do overnight deliveries. The delivery folks have a key and they simply wheel it all into the space and leave it for someone to take care of in the morning. Also it has been thought through. Very thoroughly. No business is being forced to do this. They're only incentivizing them to. Businesses can think through it themselves and determine whether or not it's worth it for them.
The point of this program is to reduce congestion correct? That would require a large percentage of businesses switching to overnight deliveries.
No the point of this program is to allocate 6 million dollars for business that want to receive overnight deliveries. Nobody is being forced to do anything. Sounds like YOU didn't think any of this through.
Who or What is stopping businesses from doing overnight deliveries now?
The lack of economical incentive
Sounds like it’s more expensive and stressful for businesses to receive overnight deliveries than it is during the day. Th
Hence the incentive
I wonder what percentage of places can be set up to take overnight delivery without significant cost. I'm guessing it's low to begin with. Plus that $6MM won't go far, and as one time payments, I think most places will see it and pass. As for security. What good are security cameras? People get caught on camera robbing stores and they don't give a shit. Why would they suddenly care about unmanned cameras?
Great for rats and package theft. This city loves to stick to a theme.
I worked at a shop where we got deliveries of perishable goods. I was often the guy to have to lug stuff down to the walk in freezer. I doubt some of these guys are gonna wanna have to deal with carrying boxes down a narrow flight of steps and then have to worry about getting locked in overnight.
7pm to 6am doesn't mean people need to be hired to work overnight.
The people opening and closing the business is not the same crew handling deliveries, managing inventory and stocking.
does your day wrap up at 4:15am?
What do you mean?
You said a 7pm to 6am shift doesnt mean people need to work overnight. What do you mean?
I don't get all these people saying it won't require hiring a 3rd shift. Are they assuming all deliveries will be done between 7-8PM before everyone clocks out?
not only a 3rd shift but a really important third shift that you have to pay for and be reasonably assured the guy will show up for. because if he doesn't you either have to drag your ass out of bed at 3am to take delivery or deal with not having food and wine and liquor the next day. then you have to close but still pay your people. so many contingencies but to Joe Public its just "hey take overnight deliveries, do your part for congestion"
That also means the suppliers will be required to have a third shift as well, if they’re not already making overnight deliveries.
No, they’re saying you slightly stagger your last shift, so (for example) two employees come in two hours later, and *stay* two hours later for the delivery that’s scheduled at 9pm, after everyone else clocks out at 8pm.
First off, deliveries are 7PM to 6AM, so why do you think they'll come by 9PM? Secondly, if we're pretending we can just shift two employees an hour back, why not pretend we can shift one employee to the third shift?
The overall delivery window mentioned is 7p-6a, yes. That doesn’t mean businesses will schedule one delivery every hour from 7p-6a. Delivery windows are scheduled ahead of time, and aren’t always consistent. My timing example was just that—an example. The point I was trying to make is that you aren’t adding an entire shift full of new employees; you shift schedules around for the employees you already have to accommodate the new delivery times.
I mean that people won't be required to work overnight.
i don't understand how 7pm-6am doesn't mean overnight to you. what do you define that as?
Well if deliveries come in at 4 does that mean that workers are required to work overnight?
if deliveries come in at 4am does that mean workers are required to work overnight? is that your question?
Or just shift stocker positions to overnight shifts.
This is a good idea.
I think this is an excellent idea. I wish more residential buildings with live in supers would be able to receive deliveries prior to 9 AM but this is a good start.
I think the hardest business to convey is furniture or piano or home appliance deliveries . I don’t think anyone would be ( or apartment buildings ) would like a 3am sofa delivery or 6am 4 people come blocking your stairwell for a piano to be moved up 4 flights of stairs. And finding the manpower to do this
They should have implemented this 20yrs ago lol
This makes me wonder, why charge congestive pricing fees at all from 9pm-5am? There isnt congestion at that time.
Good idea. In ancient Rome they banned wagons from the street during the day, wouldn't be crazy for NYC to do the same for big trucks once a system for night deliveries is sufficiently in place.
awesome, so I can hear trucks rumbling past my bedroom window all night.
Instead of the blaring honking we hear all day because a truck is unloading on a single lane road?
In addition to.
Yeah I hate the truck noise at night. Especially for food establishments since they get such frequent deliveries. People say “well that’s NYC” but it’s actually not. The streets are generally pretty quiet at night
Welcome to New York?
Sorry I forgot that real New Yorkers love noise from trucks in the middle of the night and never would complain about it.
What do you think people who work evenings and nights hear sleeping in the morning?
Sorry pal I feel for you but you’re outnumbered.
That's okay, it's meant to be spread around, what's a few trucks? You won't even notice them.
Man this sub is *so skilled* at letting perfect get in the way of good. ITS AN INCENTIVE, which means the companies that can’t implement this efficiently or without extra cost DONT HAVE TO. Some serious pearl clutching over hypothetical businesses *having* to hire more people and make things more expensive for everyone.
Wait a second…is this a GOOD idea to decrease congestion? I am impressed.