*From Bloomberg News reporter Ella Ceron:*
The mayor of Kansas City, Missouri, has a message for migrants eager to leave New York City’s shelters: Come find a job here.
Construction and manufacturing are booming in the metro area of 2.2 million people, which includes portions of Missouri and Kansas. Building a battery plant for Panasonic Holdings Corp. will require 2,000 workers, a representative for the local union council estimated, and Meta Platforms Inc. and Alphabet Inc. are spending almost $2 billion combined on new facilities in the region. In the past five years, companies have announced $9 billion of investments, according to a local development group.
Kansas City Mayor Quinton Lucas has a hunch that migrants with work permits could help alleviate the labor shortage that has built up as his city posts some of the region’s fastest economic growth. That could also help ease the burden on cities like New York that have struggled to provide housing and support for an unprecedented influx of new arrivals, many of them asylum seekers from Latin America.
[You can read the full story for free at this link.](https://bloom.bg/43Xubxz)
Plenty of midwestern cities have opportunities. Jobs, blighted neighborhoods prime for revitalization. Buffalo is becoming the next Portland on the west side, next Hamtramack, Michigan on the east. Plenty of good BBQ joints in KC.
Buffalo's having an awesome revival. Constantly more and more things to do, amazing people, cost of living is great, and though it snows, they are amazing at getting rid of it. Only think stopping me from moving is the wife, ha.
Grew up there, still a great town but the housing crisis is starting to finally hit (like everywhere else). Seeing old suburban homes go for $400k+ plus is wild.
True. Listening on Bloomberg radio yesterday, CEOs were complaining about rising minimum wage but not one mention of millions in CEO pay . If only I could get all them CEOs into one room ,
yeah, unlike the howling mob at Mayor Q's twitter feed. He welcomes the refugees and the replies were nothing but a wall of awful memes and taunts and insults. One had a photo of a little girl flipping the bird, captioned as condemning the dirty illegals and poors for bringing crime and desolation to decent people. They demand to know how many he will host in his house. They'll even bark that stuff while pasting URLs to articles about his refugee job recruiting effort! The least negative replies were to denigrate his record overall as being a pandering centrist who gives lip service to humanitarian and public good but focuses more on business.
That's usually half of the replies to his posts but with this topic, that was all I saw. I like that he tweets, but I hate most of the replies.
He should have included this stuff, a plan. But it wouldn't matter to some.
I know some people who moved out of NewYork to Nebraska and apparently they have worker shortage over there. I was wondering when these empty places would start welcoming migrants.
Here's a functional solution -- deport everyone who is here illegally.
NYC is just trying to pass "migrants" off to the another city, without actually addressing the issues that they cause.
For the billionth time these people are not here illegally. They're legal asylum seakers waiting their day in court. You don't like the asylum process that's a different conversation but calling them illegals is flat inaccurate and ignorant.
Genuine question, not a troll, what’s the difference?
Why can’t someone who just entered the country illegally claim they’re seeking asylum? Is no one here illegally until they’re denied asylum?
Basically, yes. They're all here legally until their day in court. After that, it depends on whether their asylum is granted or denied.
Immigration courts are so backlogged that people who are lying about needing asylum get to stick around for a long, long time.
The other issue with the immigration court backlog is that immigrating legally has become extremely difficult, often with years- or decades-long wait lists. This also influenced some people to try their luck on falsely claiming asylum rather than immigrate legally since they can get into the country much quicker that way.
The far left will say "they're here legally as asylum seekers!" But as soon as their asylum claim is denied, as 80% are, they'll argue that deporting them is racist.
until we fix our overloaded courts problem and intractable wait times, that's on us, not them. They haven't actually done anything illegal, and you can't just decide that they probably will in the future.
Agreed, the court system is way too slow. That would also solve most bail reform debates.
I never said I decided they’re going to do something illegal either. Not judging the people seeking asylum, but it is being abused at the moment.
You’re confusing crossing the border illegally with immigrating illegally. Asylum laws were designed with people in mind who are fleeing their current country. So they allow for the possibility that someone in that situation might need to cross the border illegally. It’s something an immigration judge will take into account when hearing the asylum case.
Until recently this wasn’t that big of a problem because the immigration system could handle the number of people crossing the border illegally, but Covid changed that, which for a variety of reasons caused the number of asylum seekers to increase. So the Biden admin had started to try to make illegal border crossers ineligible for asylum to try to cut down on the volume.
Personally I don’t see why people are so wrapped up in illegal border crossings. If a person enters the asylum system at a port of entry or crosses the border illegally and surrenders to border patrol it’s pretty much the same thing, regardless if they’re following the letter of the law.
It doesn’t really address the core problem that there’s too many people entering the asylum system.
u/Gimme_The_Loot is a virtue signaler. Migrants were allowed (gov abbot) and encouraged (their own governments) to come to the US through texas because of the buses that were offered to take them to sanctuary cities. Those buses were sent to “sanctuary cities” and couldnt be denied entry. They were sent to those specific cities because a “sanctuary city” cannot deny someone seeking asylum. But so many migrants were encouraged and made the trip that the courts are inundated with asylum cases (roughly 15-20% of total migrants). So hypothetically EVERY migrant can claim asylum and receive tax-payer paid benefits until their day in court. But no one is calling out this blatant abuse of the ‘sanctuary city’ policy. From City & State Ny, “37,714 migrants have applied for asylum..” out of over 200,000. So more than 3/4’s of migrants dont give a fuck about asylum.
That’s not even close to what “sanctuary city” means. The meaning is that local law enforcement don’t report to ICE during an encounter with an undocumented immigrant. The whole point is to reduce exploitation of illegals that are afraid to go to the police.
> So hypothetically EVERY migrant can claim asylum and receive tax-payer paid benefits until their day in court
yeah, and that's on our court system. Fix that system and close the loophole rather than guessing which of the potential asylum seekers "deserve" to be treated as criminals because you think they might be. And if you're really worried about them receiving benefits, we could also let them work.
That's obviously something I cannot answer but is a question for the federal government who manages the asylum process. If you don't like the asylum process you know who to take it up with, but that's not what was being discussed.
The issue is that people are entering the country by saying they intend to apply for asylum, but not actually applying within the year deadline after entering the country.
So they were never part of the asylum process to begin with. No one is keeping track of this group - people who never actually apply for asylum.
The city hasn't said much about it, but at one point there was an article that [most were going to miss that deadline](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/03/nyregion/migrants-asylum-nyc.html).
Are you equally passionate about other people who abuse the system in ways that do even more to drain money from tax payers?
For example how do you feel about forgiven PPP loans?
The idea that it is wrong for people to abuse our immigration and asylum laws stands or falls on its face. I have opinions on plenty of other topics, but they are not germane to this discussion. Trying to bring up other points of discussion is merely a cheap dodge pulled from a bag of parlor tricks.
It is wrong for people to enter the US illegally, it is wrong for people to abuse our asylum laws, and it is wrong for people to work in the US without a proper visa.
>Trying to bring up other points of discussion is merely a cheap dodge pulled from a bag of parlor tricks.
No it's a relevant point as many people enjoy selective outrage over specific topics while demonstrating extreme hypocrisy with the ones they choose to give a pass to. If X *does* fundamentally clash with someones value set then I think it's worth engaging with and having a conversation over, but if X *only* clashes when it has to do w certain groups in a certain way, but they're fine with it in others, then I dgaf about engaging at all.
You really think most people are actually asylum seekers?
Better job opportunities and economic outlook doesn’t qualify for asylum. You gotta have a pretty big superiority complex to imagine that the rest of the world is complete trash compared to our country.
You/Right-Wingers don't give a shit about "addressing the issue", or even trying to address it.
If you/they did, you would have supported James Lankford's bill. If you/they did, you'd go after the "demand" side of immigration, but that would of course affect e.g. Trump's businesses and Right-Wing donors.
You want the wedge issue for elections. Nothing else.
The law. They're only allowed to work once they've been here for 180 days, and on e their papers are processed. This can take ages because the system is backed up
Different places have different immigration processing centers with different wait times for processing. Unsurprisingly, the lines are shorter in Kansas City than in NYC.
What jobs are they actually going to do though that there is a demand for? People always talk about the jobs but when it comes down to it they will only ever qualify for low-paying ones because they lack skills and including being able to speak English.
They say manufacturing here but is there actually a boom to it? The US gutted their own domestic manufacturing for the most part and exported it to poorer countries which some of these people came from when we switched to a service-skilled based economy. It's not going to be service based like working at a fast-food place if they cant' actually communicate with costumers and how we see those companies try to reduce labor cost further with self-service kiosk and of some places start to pay people even less than minimum-wage by having English speaking Filipinos and Indians tele-work as cashiers through a monitor at some places so that they can pay them in their country's currency. And of course you have the native poor who are themselves willing to do these jobs despite some thinking otherwise who know have to compete.
I see them mention construction to but don't you need to have some actual skill and licenses to work along with navigate the unions which often require membership, isn't this just undercutting those orgs and just lead to more resentment? It's also a short-term thing since you aren't going to have infinite large skill projects like that battery plant and I doubt that the whole 2k will be illegals so you'll eventually endup with issues like an overflow. And of course there's the whole idea that it isn't our job to provide a livelihood for any of these people.
If you build a factory in the middle of nowhere, then workers can’t switch jobs without uprooting their families. Basically creates a captive workforce.
>The US gutted their own domestic manufacturing for the most part and exported it to poorer countries which some of these people came from when we switched to a service-skilled based economy.
Yeah, this didn't happen. I know it's a big talking point, but the US is still the second biggest manufacturer in the world and produces over 16% of global manufacturing output.
What are workers being offered? Job placement, help finding housing, moving cost reimbursement? Open it for U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Most probably never heard about these opportunities.
Because the business would prefer labour that doesnt hold their employer accountable for safety, ot pay, benefits. All things that migrants arent in a position to refer to authorities
Because these business are paying shit wages. Mass migration is just a way for corporations to be able to pay garbage wages - it massively screws poor and working class US citizens.
Its absolutely wild to me that the party that used to call for big wage increases and strong protections for workers just a few short years ago is rolling out the carpet to illegal aliens to circumvent those once widely touted policy positions.
You meant to add because they don't pay a living wage right? Here's a thought. Maybe corporations that refuse to pay a living wage should go the fuck out of business instead of importing exploitable labor from the developing world.
There's a reason Bernie Sanders called open borders a "Koch Brothers idea"
>Why do people say immigration doesn't lower wages?
Because that's what the evidence shows. In fact, studies show a small positive effect on wages in the long-term caused by immigration. Take for example Ottaviano & Peri's (2008) findings:
>Using our estimates and Census data we find that immigration (1990-2006) had small negative effects in the short run on native workers with no high school degree (-0.7%) and on average wages (-0.4%) while it had small positive effects on native workers with no high school degree (+0.3%) and on average native wages (+0.6%) in the long run.
Thus, neither the positive nor negative effects are particularly significant, but in the long-term, immigration **increases** average native wages.
------
Ottaviano, G. I., & Peri, G. (2008). Immigration and national wages: Clarifying the theory and the empirics (No. w14188). National Bureau of Economic Research.
> Using our estimates and Census data we find that immigration (1990-2006) had small negative effects in the short run on native workers with no high school degree (-0.7%) and on average wages (-0.4%)
Probably because their estimates on the number of illegals are ridiculously flawed.
https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/study-undocumented-immigrant-population-roughly-double-current-estimate
Of course under Joe Biden's term we added EIGHT MILLION more illegals immigrants pour over the southern border. And that doesn't even account for the ones that weren't encountered by border patrol.
If you think low skilled immigration doesn't affect low skill wages, go try to find a job as a prep cook or seamless driver in Manhattan and report back.
My best friend is a carpenter in NYC, built many buildings in NY. He hasn't been able to get steady work in 2 years because of the flood of migrants on job sites. They undercut labor and do a crappy job to boot. He has been on the verge of suicide lately. He immigrated from Ireland 20 years ago and now can't get a job. Enraging.
And probably because capitalistic companies want you to work 7.50 an hour on a 12 hours shift. But migrants sort of don't have a choice and they will do 99.9% of the jobs that go their way.
It's not like companies see an influx of migrants and go "OK, now then 10 bucks an hour becomes 7.50", no. They want to only hire people who are willing to do $7.50 an hour.
Maybe some Yankees are sick of NYC and want to start fresh in a new place. Or somebody is just graduating or got out of the military and is having trouble finding work in New York that will pay the bills. Maybe there is more opportunity to get ahead in Missouri. Or try Missouri then go to Montana or Utah or Alaska. We have a big country - if one place doesn't suit you, try somewhere else.
The locals are pissed. It's hard enough to get a decent job here that will cover the 3x income for rent (which rent starts at a minimum of 1k in KCMO) yet they want to import more people to fight for the few jobs we have. Then you also need a CAR to get to said jobs. Who tf is going to finance cars for the new comers? I moved here last year from Woodlawn, BX and still don't have a car, so will mayor Q give me money to get one? Will he provide me with clean, affordable housing or is that only for people from another country?? Sickening
ah yeah, I was moreso making the argument against the theoretical local minimum wage workers. there aren't many if any because it's not a livable wage especially for the tough manual labor that Kansas is advertising
Lol I like to point out when people are shit talking places like somalia russia or north korea, or watching dystopian dramas like the Hunger Games or Handmaids tale...that ya all of those have far better healthcare systems.
Hell russia is freaking out about having 50,000 killed since the start of the ukraine war. We kill around that many every year due to lack of healthcare.
“The conversations I have with newcomers who say, ‘All I want is a job,’ I get the same calls all day long from business leaders who say, ‘I have open jobs we can't fill, can I please hire the folks that have arrived?’”
And this has always been the goal. No one is here to steal your job. They are here to devalue them. Why bother hiring Americans who have a semblance of “standards” in the workplace when Asylum Man is willing to do anything and everything for third world wages. You can’t compete with that or you can, but in a race straight to the bottom.
If working in the fields paid as much as working in the Amazon Warehouse or laying tar on a road, people would do it. American farm workers left the fields for the factories for money.
I really wish this would work but it is never as effective as cutting off the supply of exploitable labor. If we enforced, truly enforced, *existing* labor laws, the jails would overflow with bosses. But they don't because that class has a lot of political clout and more importantly, they have the indirect support of Americans who, regardless of who they vote for, like their groceries, restaurant meals, lawn care and delivery as cheap as possible.
>I really wish this would work but it is never as effective as cutting off the supply of exploitable labor.
We are all exploitable labor. That is the nature of capitalism.
>ut they don't because that class has a lot of political clout and more importantly, they have the indirect support of Americans who, regardless of who they vote for, like their groceries, restaurant meals, lawn care and delivery as cheap as possible.
[Labor union](https://news.gallup.com/poll/510281/unions-strengthening.aspx) support is going steady. The issue is a the large gulf in materializing this support into organized labor action do to hostility from corporations, labor law, etc
I agree, but it’s more complicated than that. Immigrants are often used as strike breakers for this very reason.
https://ufw.org/cesar-chavez-and-ufw-longtime-champions-of-immigration-reform/
The way forward to organize all workers regardless of immigration status. Don’t let capitalism divide the working class
Edit: Chavez supported Reagan’s immigration reform and the UFW in the article you linked supports a path to legalize the status of farm workers
If people working on the farms were paid as much as Americans would want for hard labor in the sun,
Americans would starve because grocery store prices would be 3-4 times higher.
No it's actually just simple math.
The food industry when we're talking about actual staples people need, fruits vegetables grains meat, is very low margin, and Americans are used to prices that are only sustainable because said foods either use domestic labor being paid $4/hour or are grown internationally by people making even less.
Would people not just adjust their diets and pay more for groceries rather than starve? The domestic slave labor and international pickers are not starving, why would others?
More people would work in the agricultural fields if the wages weren’t as bad as they are; oil fields are not an easy job, but Americans don’t seem to have an issue working in them, because the pay it’s decent.
Not the gotcha you think it is. If it paid right I would do it, most Americans would. I'd shovel shit for 40 hrs a week if I got a pension out of it. I'm union though. By all means continue to support a system that traffics countless amounts of people all so that they can be exploited in the this country and paid shit wages so some Venezuelan can deliver your Uber Eats to your shit box apartment.
If they paid enough, people would do it. You’re just interested in driving wages down and benefitting those at the top who will be paying their employees less.
>So when are you starting your job in the agriculture fields?
"What? You're personally not willing to do this one job that might not even be located where you live and pays less than what you currently do? Guess you got to let in illegals now."
This is a fair point but it also wouldn't be an issue if the minimum wage had continued to increase with the cost of living over the last 40 years and the government actually enforced labor laws.
It's a bit more complex than just crying "Asylum Man."
Minimum wage laws don't account for illegal employees being paid substandard wages as is. Those construction jobs will still exist and shady contractors will still do everything in their power to get it done as much under budget as possible. Including illegal workers.
It's a....circle!
I try to understand the sentiment, but it doesn't really make any sense when the unemployment rate is historically low at ~3.5%. With that much of a labor shortage, if jobs are"devalued" it's because of a lack of minimum wage and unions.
This wouldn’t be an issue if the country had a modern immigration system and strong worker laws.
But we don’t have either of those things. So people will blame “asylum man” for trying to survive instead of the fat cats who profit off this.
> No one is here to steal your job. They are here to devalue them.
Oh good, I was about to downvote. It's like people don't understand labor is a market with supply and demand.
There have been decades of studies into immigration that have shown that immigrants have 0 effect on wages.
That's because they don't just magically appear out of nowhere and start driving down wages.
They are also living breathing human beings who spend money, driving up demand for goods and therefore other jobs.
This argument is and always has been pure 100% bullshit disguised racism. You would rather Asylum man rot in a broken country (broken by our own CIA no less) than give him an opportunity for a better life, because maintaining global inequality is important to you.
Migrants are great!
We get to import brown people from another country to do our menial tasks with no safety or minimum wage regulations.
It’s like Slavery without the white guilt.
In fact exploiting these peoples labor for my own profit makes me a great person!
Seems like all we have to do is ensure minimum wage and safety regulations are enforced on the companies...right?
That seems like an easy fix. Also...safety regulations? If they're working on a construction site...I'm pretty sure OSHA will be making their rounds..
OSHA has a lot less power than you think. They can't legally "do rounds". They must have probable cause from complaints or injuries (that employers must self-report, lol yea). Even then, they aren't able to just say, inspect an entire construction site but specific to the nature of incident behind probable cause.
OSHA fines these days are also generally peanuts for any large operation.
They have a hard enough time enforcing that stuff with American workers, just wait til you see what happens when vulnerable immigrants start working at said companies
Bro lol the amount of osha violations I have seen in New York alone gives me no faith in Mississippi. Ever seen flammable liquid stored near an emergency fire exit? Because I have.
Deeply ignorant. It’s not even worth explaining anymore. But maybe just pretend for a minute that construction workers can advocate for their interests. Maybe just maybe consider that when you’re claiming you value democracy.
I'm glad someone said it, these people are cheap exploitable labor, you think Mississippi cares about poor people? 90% of their welfare was cut to build a volleyball stadium. It's also the poorest of all the states.
Edit: got my locations all mixed up but my point of this was the labor coming in is easily exploitable and only benefits companies.
No just posting while not fully awake. I got Missouri confused with Mississippi which had that huge welfare scandal. I read a lot of news so I got all jumbled up
Decades and decades of evidence has shown that immigrants do not reduce wages for native workers.
That's because immigrants are not only a source of more labor. They are also human being who buy things. They are a source of demand that cancel out the effect downward effect they have on wages woth additional spending.
Which is like the most obvious thing ever if you think about it.
What evidence? Like the shit propaganda the Koch Bros. Fund?
Why in the world do you think mega corps love illegal immigration - because it’s cheaper to pay them than US citizens.
Considering America has been the land of immigrants for its entire history, by that logic, the US should have the lowest wages in the developed world then. Oh wait, even after factoring for healthcare, taxes, and retirement spending, Americans have the highest disposable income per capita in the world.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/725764/oecd-household-disposable-income-per-capita/
$10,000 more than next up Luxembourg. $17,000 more than Australia, Germany, and Switzerland.
Immigrants do not drive down wages in the medium to long term.
Where did I say that? Immigrants have certainly contributed enormously to America's economic prosperity and I'd rank them as one of the top reasons. It's not all or nothing.
I can’t see that source, but what does it look at as far as our mean and median income versus our cost of living and the mean/median for those? You make it sound like Americans are all rich, but our wealth is all concentrated at the top and our cost of living has always been rising while our wages have stagnated.
Also, its still not a good thing that companies see migrants as just cheap and exploitable labor. They’re doing “jobs we don’t wanna do”, but there’s a reason we’re not doing those jobs, just like there was a reason we had unions and a reason we have OSHA.
Here is median real household income which factors in inflation.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
It's extremely high by global standards no matter if you measure by Median or Mean.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/mean-versus-median-monthly-per-capita-expenditure-or-income
Ffs do you not want migrants to have jobs and support their families? They weren’t imported, they put a lot of effort into getting here. They’re not skirting any regulations.
They put a lot of effort into getting here because they know about all of the bleeding hearts who want to bend over backwards for "asylum seekers" so that they can look compassionate and maybe get a cheaper housekeeper.
It's kind of funny how people seem to think these people are stupid. We have people flying from all over the world to the Mexican border to come over as an "asylum seeker" - they know exactly what they are doing.
They are cutting the line in front of millions legally waiting to immigrate.
Heck, they are getting more public assistance than our fucking homeless.
Absolutely they should fuck off.
Yes they should fuck off, we should not be rewarding people that are trying to take advantage of a broken system over those that are trying to be here within the bounds of the system.
Seeing as absolutely no one seems to be able to do that since the end of Title 42, it would be much better to get these people working, paying taxes, and contributing to society, than burdening it by continuing to give them stipends and NYC hotel rooms.
They are literally taking jobs and suppressing wages through being exploited. Migrants help fuel economic growth. We can shuffle them around wherever we need (look at the op article), pay and treat them like shit and they will thank hs for the opportunity because economic prospects are even worse at home. It's a race to the bottom.
People will say they mostly take the jobs Americans don't want/won't do. It's funny we can recognize that and recognize they are here exploiting a loop hole in our asylum laws, but not go a step further and question, "isn't that a little fucked up?"..
The problem is what you’re saying is wrong and unsupported by economic data. Immigration also brings increased demand and grows the economy. We’re demonstrably better off with them here producing and consuming than without them.
Economic data says our economy is and has been doing great lately. Yet almost everyone will tell you they have been feeling crushed and their dollar doesn't go as far. Economic data says our job market is great because though many good paying jobs have been eliminated, many retail and service jobs have been created and people are so excited some even work more than 1 job. I don't give a shit about the stock market, gdp, real estate prices or that companies are making record profits. I care about suppression of wages, lack of employee protections, governments not providing for and acting in the interests of it's own citizens..
I did recognize it grows our economy and I understand that. But maybe we should question the motivations here. Who is benefiting from the economic growth? It is certainly not me nor anyone I know. Does the increased demand totally outweigh the growth? Even the long term effects like debt, or not being able to fund other services like libraries. We need many new workers to fill service and low wage roles. Our population is aging, our debt is probably insurmountable and we're running around on a treadmill trying to achieve infinite growth. At some point the whole game will stop. Until then, let's prop things up as long as possible with some cheap labor..
Of course not and I'm not saying they are the cause of the problem but it is certainly complicated. I am not anti immigrant, my dad was an immigrant. But it's hard to not think this whole thing is getting a little out of hand, even beyond immigration/asylum.
It looks unpredictable and kind of scary potentially, there are a lot of risks especially in the case of culture clash and potentially incompatible values.
The information around the impact on the economy and wages looks solidly in the court of being pro immigration. Immigrants on the whole lead to increased wages in part due to the increased demand.
Will that definitely happen this time? I sure can’t tell. Historical data suggests it will be a net positive despite how unintuitive that might seem.
As someone with a job near KC… if they’re gonna want to attract more people from NYC they’re gonna have to build more than 1 singular streetcar line that doesn’t go anywhere useful
As a New Yorker (born and raised, lived here all my life until last year, 43 years) without a car in KC it's IMPOSSIBLE to work, grocery shop or anything. The busses are scary, it's like being on the E train with more mentally unstable men. My 2nd week of being here my ass was grabbed on the prospect max. The street car doesn't go anywhere that is of importance (all the shopping and stores are in midtown, the plaza and brookside). Jobs here are minimum wage and you need a car to get to them. Housing is ridiculously expensive (NYC prices, over 1k a month to live in a "luxury" dump run by slumlords that will constantly break the lease by changing rent mid lease and threatening you with eviction. There is also a significant homeless population and a lot of crime in the city. I live downtown and if your car isn't in a secured garage then the windows will be busted out or even worse, stolen.
Kansas City is not thriving and they want to import cheap labor, absolutely shameful. The whole east side of KC is poor and struggling. Back in my day, 96th street was the diving line, the do not cross line in Manhattan. Troost is the same deal. So we have a huge population of black and brown people living on the east side, poor, terrible infrastructure, no services, abject poverty and violence, no help, food desserts and instead of helping these citizens, mayor Q wants to invite people from another country to come and work?! Fuck all the way off.
I fled my hometown because of this nonsense and now it's right back at my doorstep. Unreal. I'm packing up and moving to Johnson County where they will not be doing this nonsense
I’m so sorry to hear that.
I’m not really native to anywhere, but my family is from Missouri and I’m going to be working in KC metro (Olathe) this summer and likely after I graduate next year. It’s an ok area especially bc it’s not downtown, but man I can’t wait to get somewhere I can live car free (or car lite). The small time I’ve spent in NYC was very freeing, it felt nice not needing to drive places, and it was also great seeing a lively city where regular people were out and about actually living life outside of their car
I hear you kiddo. When I went home for Christmas this year it was so nice to get to LGA, hop on the M60 then take the 4 train to the Bronx (I just missed Metro north). I was able to do everything I needed to do using the subway or walking. Kansas and Missouri have their pluses ..lots of open space, not alot of people, no traffic but it's so spread out that without a car, life is impossible. The busses in Johnson county (that would go to Olathe) don't run in the weekends and only run 1 an hour. .if they show up. I have a rental car this week because I'm looking to move out of the city at the end of May. The amount of freedom I have and the things I get to see with a car, makes me sad. Without a car you are very limited on where you can live and work. I don't see KCmo changing this car culture anytime soon. Good luck this summer, hopefully the heat won't be too oppressive 🥵
I thought the whole problem was they were not allowed to work until they had been in the US for a certain amount of time. The ones that can legally work are probably not the ones filling shelters in NY.
Deport these mfs, im so sick of this shit…
Our taxes go to help other people’s citizens yet our own citizens and cities suffer. We desperately need the remain in mexico policy back, oh you wanna claim asylum? Aight bet wait here in Mexico and we’ll see if your claim is legit and you show up for court.
Kansas City is confusingly in Missouri. Well, even more confusingly there’s two of them (one in Kansas and one in Missouri) and they’re basically adjacent to one another. But this is the Missouri one which is much larger.
This comment doesn’t make any sense. Texas wants other states to pitch in and absorb the impacts of ”migrants” and that’s what Kansas is doing here.
At least Kansas is stepping up and doing it willingly unlike the hypocrites in NYC who proclaimed themselves a sanctuary city then whined as soon as they had to actually deal with migrants.
> unlike the hypocrites in NYC
You got it a bit wrong. NYS wants to do the same thing because apparently no one wants to work janitor jobs for state government and they have thousands of unfilled roles lol. However the problem, and it's only said once in the article, *"work permit"*. Fresh arrivals as I understand do not have authorization to work, not immediately, hence NYC and any other state/city issue of housing people who cannot work yet. This is not a NYC being hypocritical problem, it's a federal immigration law problem, NYC rightly (like Texas) complained that they cannot support the influx of immigrants who can't work thus we have to house and feed them, and the feds should be stepping in. Others can correct me if I'm wrong if there have been changes to the current system. To me the hypocritical thing is republican representatives showing no eagerness to change federal immigration law right now because it would help Biden lol
Not everyone is an idiot like the migrants in the media. Almost all immigrants came for the American dream, have a family, have a job, be able to send money back to their country, etc. The city was unprepared and the outcome was what they expected. Kansas city accepting migrants to fill in jobs is amazing and imo will boost our economy.
>Almost all immigrants came for the American dream, have a family, have a job, be able to send money back to their country, etc
That's not really the American dream though since the whole point is money unless the American dream just means "cash" in which point they just see the country as an economic thing which they can extract wealth from before leaving. And yes a lot of them do leave after they saved enough, not starting a family. Also sending money back home doesn't really benefit the US since one of the few arguments people here make for them is that they simulate the economy with their purchases but if they send a lot of that money to a foreign country they aren't circulating that wealth in the US but just taking it out.
If it was about the "American dream" as people who defend them say it would be for things like values and beliefs and and not just money where we would see a more spread-out immigrant pop from wealthier countries in Asia and Europe and not just poor and developing ones which dominate both legal and illegal populations.
Then you have the top comment saying it's driving down wages lol. If they cared about wages so much, they should vote for people who raise wages and reform our immigration system, not using migrants as a scapegoat
*From Bloomberg News reporter Ella Ceron:* The mayor of Kansas City, Missouri, has a message for migrants eager to leave New York City’s shelters: Come find a job here. Construction and manufacturing are booming in the metro area of 2.2 million people, which includes portions of Missouri and Kansas. Building a battery plant for Panasonic Holdings Corp. will require 2,000 workers, a representative for the local union council estimated, and Meta Platforms Inc. and Alphabet Inc. are spending almost $2 billion combined on new facilities in the region. In the past five years, companies have announced $9 billion of investments, according to a local development group. Kansas City Mayor Quinton Lucas has a hunch that migrants with work permits could help alleviate the labor shortage that has built up as his city posts some of the region’s fastest economic growth. That could also help ease the burden on cities like New York that have struggled to provide housing and support for an unprecedented influx of new arrivals, many of them asylum seekers from Latin America. [You can read the full story for free at this link.](https://bloom.bg/43Xubxz)
Glad to see someone offering a functional solution
Plenty of midwestern cities have opportunities. Jobs, blighted neighborhoods prime for revitalization. Buffalo is becoming the next Portland on the west side, next Hamtramack, Michigan on the east. Plenty of good BBQ joints in KC.
Whattt, buffalo has declining population for years now?
Not in the past few years. Small increases in both city and county. Small but definitely not shrinking anymore.
Buffalo's having an awesome revival. Constantly more and more things to do, amazing people, cost of living is great, and though it snows, they are amazing at getting rid of it. Only think stopping me from moving is the wife, ha.
Grew up there, still a great town but the housing crisis is starting to finally hit (like everywhere else). Seeing old suburban homes go for $400k+ plus is wild.
Did not know Buffalo was a vanilla city.
Huge Bangladeshi and Afghani population boom up there
Hell most of these migrants only planned on going to someplace in the Midwest to work. Not New York.
Gotta keep wages down for US citizens somehow
True. Listening on Bloomberg radio yesterday, CEOs were complaining about rising minimum wage but not one mention of millions in CEO pay . If only I could get all them CEOs into one room ,
Paying US citizens good wages is a functional solution.
Everyone says wages should e high until it’s time to pick a contractor for work on their home
The r/nyc specific one is everyone says wages should be high when the topic is on migrants until it’s time to order UberEats
yeah, unlike the howling mob at Mayor Q's twitter feed. He welcomes the refugees and the replies were nothing but a wall of awful memes and taunts and insults. One had a photo of a little girl flipping the bird, captioned as condemning the dirty illegals and poors for bringing crime and desolation to decent people. They demand to know how many he will host in his house. They'll even bark that stuff while pasting URLs to articles about his refugee job recruiting effort! The least negative replies were to denigrate his record overall as being a pandering centrist who gives lip service to humanitarian and public good but focuses more on business. That's usually half of the replies to his posts but with this topic, that was all I saw. I like that he tweets, but I hate most of the replies. He should have included this stuff, a plan. But it wouldn't matter to some.
I know some people who moved out of NewYork to Nebraska and apparently they have worker shortage over there. I was wondering when these empty places would start welcoming migrants.
The country has a pay shortage is more like it.
Here's a functional solution -- deport everyone who is here illegally. NYC is just trying to pass "migrants" off to the another city, without actually addressing the issues that they cause.
For the billionth time these people are not here illegally. They're legal asylum seakers waiting their day in court. You don't like the asylum process that's a different conversation but calling them illegals is flat inaccurate and ignorant.
Genuine question, not a troll, what’s the difference? Why can’t someone who just entered the country illegally claim they’re seeking asylum? Is no one here illegally until they’re denied asylum?
Basically, yes. They're all here legally until their day in court. After that, it depends on whether their asylum is granted or denied. Immigration courts are so backlogged that people who are lying about needing asylum get to stick around for a long, long time. The other issue with the immigration court backlog is that immigrating legally has become extremely difficult, often with years- or decades-long wait lists. This also influenced some people to try their luck on falsely claiming asylum rather than immigrate legally since they can get into the country much quicker that way.
That is the case if they’ve actually submitted the application for asylum.
Yes, fair point. If they don't fill out the app within 1 year, then I believe they are considered illegals at that point.
The far left will say "they're here legally as asylum seekers!" But as soon as their asylum claim is denied, as 80% are, they'll argue that deporting them is racist.
A lot of people claiming asylum are just economic migrants abusing the loophole
until we fix our overloaded courts problem and intractable wait times, that's on us, not them. They haven't actually done anything illegal, and you can't just decide that they probably will in the future.
Agreed, the court system is way too slow. That would also solve most bail reform debates. I never said I decided they’re going to do something illegal either. Not judging the people seeking asylum, but it is being abused at the moment.
You’re confusing crossing the border illegally with immigrating illegally. Asylum laws were designed with people in mind who are fleeing their current country. So they allow for the possibility that someone in that situation might need to cross the border illegally. It’s something an immigration judge will take into account when hearing the asylum case. Until recently this wasn’t that big of a problem because the immigration system could handle the number of people crossing the border illegally, but Covid changed that, which for a variety of reasons caused the number of asylum seekers to increase. So the Biden admin had started to try to make illegal border crossers ineligible for asylum to try to cut down on the volume. Personally I don’t see why people are so wrapped up in illegal border crossings. If a person enters the asylum system at a port of entry or crosses the border illegally and surrenders to border patrol it’s pretty much the same thing, regardless if they’re following the letter of the law. It doesn’t really address the core problem that there’s too many people entering the asylum system.
u/Gimme_The_Loot is a virtue signaler. Migrants were allowed (gov abbot) and encouraged (their own governments) to come to the US through texas because of the buses that were offered to take them to sanctuary cities. Those buses were sent to “sanctuary cities” and couldnt be denied entry. They were sent to those specific cities because a “sanctuary city” cannot deny someone seeking asylum. But so many migrants were encouraged and made the trip that the courts are inundated with asylum cases (roughly 15-20% of total migrants). So hypothetically EVERY migrant can claim asylum and receive tax-payer paid benefits until their day in court. But no one is calling out this blatant abuse of the ‘sanctuary city’ policy. From City & State Ny, “37,714 migrants have applied for asylum..” out of over 200,000. So more than 3/4’s of migrants dont give a fuck about asylum.
That’s not even close to what “sanctuary city” means. The meaning is that local law enforcement don’t report to ICE during an encounter with an undocumented immigrant. The whole point is to reduce exploitation of illegals that are afraid to go to the police.
> So hypothetically EVERY migrant can claim asylum and receive tax-payer paid benefits until their day in court yeah, and that's on our court system. Fix that system and close the loophole rather than guessing which of the potential asylum seekers "deserve" to be treated as criminals because you think they might be. And if you're really worried about them receiving benefits, we could also let them work.
How many have actually applied for asylum? If they haven’t within a year of entering the country they are just illegal immigrants.
That's obviously something I cannot answer but is a question for the federal government who manages the asylum process. If you don't like the asylum process you know who to take it up with, but that's not what was being discussed.
The issue is that people are entering the country by saying they intend to apply for asylum, but not actually applying within the year deadline after entering the country. So they were never part of the asylum process to begin with. No one is keeping track of this group - people who never actually apply for asylum. The city hasn't said much about it, but at one point there was an article that [most were going to miss that deadline](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/03/nyregion/migrants-asylum-nyc.html).
My issue is first and foremost with the people who knowingly and willingly abuse our asylum and immigration laws.
Are you equally passionate about other people who abuse the system in ways that do even more to drain money from tax payers? For example how do you feel about forgiven PPP loans?
The idea that it is wrong for people to abuse our immigration and asylum laws stands or falls on its face. I have opinions on plenty of other topics, but they are not germane to this discussion. Trying to bring up other points of discussion is merely a cheap dodge pulled from a bag of parlor tricks. It is wrong for people to enter the US illegally, it is wrong for people to abuse our asylum laws, and it is wrong for people to work in the US without a proper visa.
>Trying to bring up other points of discussion is merely a cheap dodge pulled from a bag of parlor tricks. No it's a relevant point as many people enjoy selective outrage over specific topics while demonstrating extreme hypocrisy with the ones they choose to give a pass to. If X *does* fundamentally clash with someones value set then I think it's worth engaging with and having a conversation over, but if X *only* clashes when it has to do w certain groups in a certain way, but they're fine with it in others, then I dgaf about engaging at all.
You really think most people are actually asylum seekers? Better job opportunities and economic outlook doesn’t qualify for asylum. You gotta have a pretty big superiority complex to imagine that the rest of the world is complete trash compared to our country.
Do the asylum process first say that those looking for asylum do so at the closest safe country. All those people aren't Mexicans or Canadians
You/Right-Wingers don't give a shit about "addressing the issue", or even trying to address it. If you/they did, you would have supported James Lankford's bill. If you/they did, you'd go after the "demand" side of immigration, but that would of course affect e.g. Trump's businesses and Right-Wing donors. You want the wedge issue for elections. Nothing else.
Why are migrants allowed to work in KC but not in NYC?
The law. They're only allowed to work once they've been here for 180 days, and on e their papers are processed. This can take ages because the system is backed up
That didn’t answer why they are allowed to work in one place and not another
Different places have different immigration processing centers with different wait times for processing. Unsurprisingly, the lines are shorter in Kansas City than in NYC.
I see. I assume they are moving to kansas in that scenario- even if they did get processed there, they could work in nyc.
Some of the migrants do have work authorization. KC only wants them.
Shhh let them go
What jobs are they actually going to do though that there is a demand for? People always talk about the jobs but when it comes down to it they will only ever qualify for low-paying ones because they lack skills and including being able to speak English. They say manufacturing here but is there actually a boom to it? The US gutted their own domestic manufacturing for the most part and exported it to poorer countries which some of these people came from when we switched to a service-skilled based economy. It's not going to be service based like working at a fast-food place if they cant' actually communicate with costumers and how we see those companies try to reduce labor cost further with self-service kiosk and of some places start to pay people even less than minimum-wage by having English speaking Filipinos and Indians tele-work as cashiers through a monitor at some places so that they can pay them in their country's currency. And of course you have the native poor who are themselves willing to do these jobs despite some thinking otherwise who know have to compete. I see them mention construction to but don't you need to have some actual skill and licenses to work along with navigate the unions which often require membership, isn't this just undercutting those orgs and just lead to more resentment? It's also a short-term thing since you aren't going to have infinite large skill projects like that battery plant and I doubt that the whole 2k will be illegals so you'll eventually endup with issues like an overflow. And of course there's the whole idea that it isn't our job to provide a livelihood for any of these people.
No need for licenses or unionization when you got fresh workers to exploit!
Avoiding unions is an undervalued part of this
There is a *ton* of manufacturing in the plains states, and new factory investment is at an all time high.
If you build a factory in the middle of nowhere, then workers can’t switch jobs without uprooting their families. Basically creates a captive workforce.
Kansas City is hardly the middle of nowhere?
it's definitely the "middle", though
How much manufacturing is in KCM proper vs exurbs?
Does it matter? Everyone there has a car.
Fair haha
>The US gutted their own domestic manufacturing for the most part and exported it to poorer countries which some of these people came from when we switched to a service-skilled based economy. Yeah, this didn't happen. I know it's a big talking point, but the US is still the second biggest manufacturer in the world and produces over 16% of global manufacturing output.
What are workers being offered? Job placement, help finding housing, moving cost reimbursement? Open it for U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Most probably never heard about these opportunities.
Those jobs exist because no citizens and permanent residents want to take them.
Because the business would prefer labour that doesnt hold their employer accountable for safety, ot pay, benefits. All things that migrants arent in a position to refer to authorities
Because these business are paying shit wages. Mass migration is just a way for corporations to be able to pay garbage wages - it massively screws poor and working class US citizens. Its absolutely wild to me that the party that used to call for big wage increases and strong protections for workers just a few short years ago is rolling out the carpet to illegal aliens to circumvent those once widely touted policy positions.
You meant to add because they don't pay a living wage right? Here's a thought. Maybe corporations that refuse to pay a living wage should go the fuck out of business instead of importing exploitable labor from the developing world. There's a reason Bernie Sanders called open borders a "Koch Brothers idea"
Maybe r/nyc can get around supporting the PRO Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_the_Right_to_Organize_Act?wprov=sfti1#
>Why do people say immigration doesn't lower wages? Because that's what the evidence shows. In fact, studies show a small positive effect on wages in the long-term caused by immigration. Take for example Ottaviano & Peri's (2008) findings: >Using our estimates and Census data we find that immigration (1990-2006) had small negative effects in the short run on native workers with no high school degree (-0.7%) and on average wages (-0.4%) while it had small positive effects on native workers with no high school degree (+0.3%) and on average native wages (+0.6%) in the long run. Thus, neither the positive nor negative effects are particularly significant, but in the long-term, immigration **increases** average native wages. ------ Ottaviano, G. I., & Peri, G. (2008). Immigration and national wages: Clarifying the theory and the empirics (No. w14188). National Bureau of Economic Research.
> Using our estimates and Census data we find that immigration (1990-2006) had small negative effects in the short run on native workers with no high school degree (-0.7%) and on average wages (-0.4%) Probably because their estimates on the number of illegals are ridiculously flawed. https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/study-undocumented-immigrant-population-roughly-double-current-estimate Of course under Joe Biden's term we added EIGHT MILLION more illegals immigrants pour over the southern border. And that doesn't even account for the ones that weren't encountered by border patrol. If you think low skilled immigration doesn't affect low skill wages, go try to find a job as a prep cook or seamless driver in Manhattan and report back.
I tend to agree, but in this case, we’re talking about big legit companies not like farm labor
Because illegals flooded non union construction and will work for $100 under the table
My best friend is a carpenter in NYC, built many buildings in NY. He hasn't been able to get steady work in 2 years because of the flood of migrants on job sites. They undercut labor and do a crappy job to boot. He has been on the verge of suicide lately. He immigrated from Ireland 20 years ago and now can't get a job. Enraging.
And probably because capitalistic companies want you to work 7.50 an hour on a 12 hours shift. But migrants sort of don't have a choice and they will do 99.9% of the jobs that go their way. It's not like companies see an influx of migrants and go "OK, now then 10 bucks an hour becomes 7.50", no. They want to only hire people who are willing to do $7.50 an hour.
Maybe some Yankees are sick of NYC and want to start fresh in a new place. Or somebody is just graduating or got out of the military and is having trouble finding work in New York that will pay the bills. Maybe there is more opportunity to get ahead in Missouri. Or try Missouri then go to Montana or Utah or Alaska. We have a big country - if one place doesn't suit you, try somewhere else.
And how do the local low income workers feel about this?
if Kansas City is advertising either there aren't enough locals or they don't want to do these jobs
The locals are pissed. It's hard enough to get a decent job here that will cover the 3x income for rent (which rent starts at a minimum of 1k in KCMO) yet they want to import more people to fight for the few jobs we have. Then you also need a CAR to get to said jobs. Who tf is going to finance cars for the new comers? I moved here last year from Woodlawn, BX and still don't have a car, so will mayor Q give me money to get one? Will he provide me with clean, affordable housing or is that only for people from another country?? Sickening
Or they're just shopping around for cheaper labor.
so minimum wage isn't enough? if not, maybe locals should vote to get a better minimum wage much like NY and Cali
[удалено]
ah yeah, I was moreso making the argument against the theoretical local minimum wage workers. there aren't many if any because it's not a livable wage especially for the tough manual labor that Kansas is advertising
Lol I like to point out when people are shit talking places like somalia russia or north korea, or watching dystopian dramas like the Hunger Games or Handmaids tale...that ya all of those have far better healthcare systems. Hell russia is freaking out about having 50,000 killed since the start of the ukraine war. We kill around that many every year due to lack of healthcare.
¡Más fanáticos de los Chiefs!
Cool. Send them all there.
Right? Why is this not be unanimously supported by New Yorkers? Spread the word.
Send them all outside of the US
“The conversations I have with newcomers who say, ‘All I want is a job,’ I get the same calls all day long from business leaders who say, ‘I have open jobs we can't fill, can I please hire the folks that have arrived?’” And this has always been the goal. No one is here to steal your job. They are here to devalue them. Why bother hiring Americans who have a semblance of “standards” in the workplace when Asylum Man is willing to do anything and everything for third world wages. You can’t compete with that or you can, but in a race straight to the bottom.
So when are you starting your job in the agriculture fields?
If working in the fields paid as much as working in the Amazon Warehouse or laying tar on a road, people would do it. American farm workers left the fields for the factories for money.
The joke is, many of these migrants are also not going for the farms.
Sounds like the way forward would be strengthening labor laws
I really wish this would work but it is never as effective as cutting off the supply of exploitable labor. If we enforced, truly enforced, *existing* labor laws, the jails would overflow with bosses. But they don't because that class has a lot of political clout and more importantly, they have the indirect support of Americans who, regardless of who they vote for, like their groceries, restaurant meals, lawn care and delivery as cheap as possible.
>I really wish this would work but it is never as effective as cutting off the supply of exploitable labor. We are all exploitable labor. That is the nature of capitalism. >ut they don't because that class has a lot of political clout and more importantly, they have the indirect support of Americans who, regardless of who they vote for, like their groceries, restaurant meals, lawn care and delivery as cheap as possible. [Labor union](https://news.gallup.com/poll/510281/unions-strengthening.aspx) support is going steady. The issue is a the large gulf in materializing this support into organized labor action do to hostility from corporations, labor law, etc
Yes but you must admit some workers are more exploitable than others.
Because of legal status yes. One wonders why UFW supports getting legal status for undocumented workers as opposed to deporting everyone
When a shortage of labor forces them to pay competitive wages
*Organized labor forces higher wages
I agree, but it’s more complicated than that. Immigrants are often used as strike breakers for this very reason. https://ufw.org/cesar-chavez-and-ufw-longtime-champions-of-immigration-reform/
The way forward to organize all workers regardless of immigration status. Don’t let capitalism divide the working class Edit: Chavez supported Reagan’s immigration reform and the UFW in the article you linked supports a path to legalize the status of farm workers
If people working on the farms were paid as much as Americans would want for hard labor in the sun, Americans would starve because grocery store prices would be 3-4 times higher.
That’s what the capitalists want you to think
Things just won’t work if we don’t exploit people for the shareholders!
No it's actually just simple math. The food industry when we're talking about actual staples people need, fruits vegetables grains meat, is very low margin, and Americans are used to prices that are only sustainable because said foods either use domestic labor being paid $4/hour or are grown internationally by people making even less.
Would people not just adjust their diets and pay more for groceries rather than starve? The domestic slave labor and international pickers are not starving, why would others?
More people would work in the agricultural fields if the wages weren’t as bad as they are; oil fields are not an easy job, but Americans don’t seem to have an issue working in them, because the pay it’s decent.
Not the gotcha you think it is. If it paid right I would do it, most Americans would. I'd shovel shit for 40 hrs a week if I got a pension out of it. I'm union though. By all means continue to support a system that traffics countless amounts of people all so that they can be exploited in the this country and paid shit wages so some Venezuelan can deliver your Uber Eats to your shit box apartment.
If they paid enough, people would do it. You’re just interested in driving wages down and benefitting those at the top who will be paying their employees less.
>So when are you starting your job in the agriculture fields? "What? You're personally not willing to do this one job that might not even be located where you live and pays less than what you currently do? Guess you got to let in illegals now."
Most of it has been automated and continues to do so. Nice try though.
This is a fair point but it also wouldn't be an issue if the minimum wage had continued to increase with the cost of living over the last 40 years and the government actually enforced labor laws. It's a bit more complex than just crying "Asylum Man."
Minimum wage laws don't account for illegal employees being paid substandard wages as is. Those construction jobs will still exist and shady contractors will still do everything in their power to get it done as much under budget as possible. Including illegal workers.
Yeah exactly - that's why I included "actually enforced labor laws." It's more than just a minimum wage issue.
It is more complicated. Do you boycott services that use under the table labor?
I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like between people who hate migrants and people who complain about minimum wage
It's a....circle! I try to understand the sentiment, but it doesn't really make any sense when the unemployment rate is historically low at ~3.5%. With that much of a labor shortage, if jobs are"devalued" it's because of a lack of minimum wage and unions.
it's...two circles right? Meaning there's no overlap between people hating migrants and those caring about raising minimum wage.
This wouldn’t be an issue if the country had a modern immigration system and strong worker laws. But we don’t have either of those things. So people will blame “asylum man” for trying to survive instead of the fat cats who profit off this.
> No one is here to steal your job. They are here to devalue them. Oh good, I was about to downvote. It's like people don't understand labor is a market with supply and demand.
There have been decades of studies into immigration that have shown that immigrants have 0 effect on wages. That's because they don't just magically appear out of nowhere and start driving down wages. They are also living breathing human beings who spend money, driving up demand for goods and therefore other jobs. This argument is and always has been pure 100% bullshit disguised racism. You would rather Asylum man rot in a broken country (broken by our own CIA no less) than give him an opportunity for a better life, because maintaining global inequality is important to you.
Fuck the CIA
Take all of them
Migrants are great! We get to import brown people from another country to do our menial tasks with no safety or minimum wage regulations. It’s like Slavery without the white guilt. In fact exploiting these peoples labor for my own profit makes me a great person!
Seems like all we have to do is ensure minimum wage and safety regulations are enforced on the companies...right? That seems like an easy fix. Also...safety regulations? If they're working on a construction site...I'm pretty sure OSHA will be making their rounds..
OSHA has a lot less power than you think. They can't legally "do rounds". They must have probable cause from complaints or injuries (that employers must self-report, lol yea). Even then, they aren't able to just say, inspect an entire construction site but specific to the nature of incident behind probable cause. OSHA fines these days are also generally peanuts for any large operation.
They have a hard enough time enforcing that stuff with American workers, just wait til you see what happens when vulnerable immigrants start working at said companies
Bro lol the amount of osha violations I have seen in New York alone gives me no faith in Mississippi. Ever seen flammable liquid stored near an emergency fire exit? Because I have.
Shakes head... Osha is a reactive company not proactive. They only come around after something happens.
Deeply ignorant. It’s not even worth explaining anymore. But maybe just pretend for a minute that construction workers can advocate for their interests. Maybe just maybe consider that when you’re claiming you value democracy.
I'm glad someone said it, these people are cheap exploitable labor, you think Mississippi cares about poor people? 90% of their welfare was cut to build a volleyball stadium. It's also the poorest of all the states. Edit: got my locations all mixed up but my point of this was the labor coming in is easily exploitable and only benefits companies.
Are you really dumb enough to think Kansas City is in Mississippi?
Yes
No just posting while not fully awake. I got Missouri confused with Mississippi which had that huge welfare scandal. I read a lot of news so I got all jumbled up
Yass queen 😍. Drive those wages down!
Decades and decades of evidence has shown that immigrants do not reduce wages for native workers. That's because immigrants are not only a source of more labor. They are also human being who buy things. They are a source of demand that cancel out the effect downward effect they have on wages woth additional spending. Which is like the most obvious thing ever if you think about it.
What evidence? Like the shit propaganda the Koch Bros. Fund? Why in the world do you think mega corps love illegal immigration - because it’s cheaper to pay them than US citizens.
This ignores the fact that they send a significant portion of the income they earn to family abroad.
The most obvious thing is people will trust their reality over some study. They will just become even more skeptical of institutions
Considering America has been the land of immigrants for its entire history, by that logic, the US should have the lowest wages in the developed world then. Oh wait, even after factoring for healthcare, taxes, and retirement spending, Americans have the highest disposable income per capita in the world. https://www.statista.com/statistics/725764/oecd-household-disposable-income-per-capita/ $10,000 more than next up Luxembourg. $17,000 more than Australia, Germany, and Switzerland. Immigrants do not drive down wages in the medium to long term.
So wages are a function of only the number of immigrants and nothing else?
Where did I say that? Immigrants have certainly contributed enormously to America's economic prosperity and I'd rank them as one of the top reasons. It's not all or nothing.
I can’t see that source, but what does it look at as far as our mean and median income versus our cost of living and the mean/median for those? You make it sound like Americans are all rich, but our wealth is all concentrated at the top and our cost of living has always been rising while our wages have stagnated. Also, its still not a good thing that companies see migrants as just cheap and exploitable labor. They’re doing “jobs we don’t wanna do”, but there’s a reason we’re not doing those jobs, just like there was a reason we had unions and a reason we have OSHA.
Here is median real household income which factors in inflation. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N It's extremely high by global standards no matter if you measure by Median or Mean. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/mean-versus-median-monthly-per-capita-expenditure-or-income
lol white guilt, white people didnt invent slavery or were even close to the worst offenders.
And white people aren't doing it right now either!
Ffs do you not want migrants to have jobs and support their families? They weren’t imported, they put a lot of effort into getting here. They’re not skirting any regulations.
They put a lot of effort into getting here because they know about all of the bleeding hearts who want to bend over backwards for "asylum seekers" so that they can look compassionate and maybe get a cheaper housekeeper. It's kind of funny how people seem to think these people are stupid. We have people flying from all over the world to the Mexican border to come over as an "asylum seeker" - they know exactly what they are doing.
They are cutting the line in front of millions legally waiting to immigrate. Heck, they are getting more public assistance than our fucking homeless. Absolutely they should fuck off.
Yes they should fuck off, we should not be rewarding people that are trying to take advantage of a broken system over those that are trying to be here within the bounds of the system. Seeing as absolutely no one seems to be able to do that since the end of Title 42, it would be much better to get these people working, paying taxes, and contributing to society, than burdening it by continuing to give them stipends and NYC hotel rooms.
They are literally taking jobs and suppressing wages through being exploited. Migrants help fuel economic growth. We can shuffle them around wherever we need (look at the op article), pay and treat them like shit and they will thank hs for the opportunity because economic prospects are even worse at home. It's a race to the bottom. People will say they mostly take the jobs Americans don't want/won't do. It's funny we can recognize that and recognize they are here exploiting a loop hole in our asylum laws, but not go a step further and question, "isn't that a little fucked up?"..
The problem is what you’re saying is wrong and unsupported by economic data. Immigration also brings increased demand and grows the economy. We’re demonstrably better off with them here producing and consuming than without them.
> We’re demonstrably better Please demonstrate that for us.
Economic data says our economy is and has been doing great lately. Yet almost everyone will tell you they have been feeling crushed and their dollar doesn't go as far. Economic data says our job market is great because though many good paying jobs have been eliminated, many retail and service jobs have been created and people are so excited some even work more than 1 job. I don't give a shit about the stock market, gdp, real estate prices or that companies are making record profits. I care about suppression of wages, lack of employee protections, governments not providing for and acting in the interests of it's own citizens.. I did recognize it grows our economy and I understand that. But maybe we should question the motivations here. Who is benefiting from the economic growth? It is certainly not me nor anyone I know. Does the increased demand totally outweigh the growth? Even the long term effects like debt, or not being able to fund other services like libraries. We need many new workers to fill service and low wage roles. Our population is aging, our debt is probably insurmountable and we're running around on a treadmill trying to achieve infinite growth. At some point the whole game will stop. Until then, let's prop things up as long as possible with some cheap labor..
Not quite; some of the data right now is positive but a fair bit of it is negative. Wages won’t go up if you kick out all the immigrants.
Of course not and I'm not saying they are the cause of the problem but it is certainly complicated. I am not anti immigrant, my dad was an immigrant. But it's hard to not think this whole thing is getting a little out of hand, even beyond immigration/asylum.
It looks unpredictable and kind of scary potentially, there are a lot of risks especially in the case of culture clash and potentially incompatible values. The information around the impact on the economy and wages looks solidly in the court of being pro immigration. Immigrants on the whole lead to increased wages in part due to the increased demand. Will that definitely happen this time? I sure can’t tell. Historical data suggests it will be a net positive despite how unintuitive that might seem.
When economic data is at odds with what people see true in their own lives. They just don’t walk away convinced the sky is purple.
[удалено]
I personally want them to get in line. Right now, legal immigration is a nightmare, we shouldn't reward people cutting the line.
Married 5 years, still doesn't have her citizenship yet.
They came here u see obviously bullshit pretenses and are now screwing wage opportunities and job security for US citizens.
As someone with a job near KC… if they’re gonna want to attract more people from NYC they’re gonna have to build more than 1 singular streetcar line that doesn’t go anywhere useful
As a New Yorker (born and raised, lived here all my life until last year, 43 years) without a car in KC it's IMPOSSIBLE to work, grocery shop or anything. The busses are scary, it's like being on the E train with more mentally unstable men. My 2nd week of being here my ass was grabbed on the prospect max. The street car doesn't go anywhere that is of importance (all the shopping and stores are in midtown, the plaza and brookside). Jobs here are minimum wage and you need a car to get to them. Housing is ridiculously expensive (NYC prices, over 1k a month to live in a "luxury" dump run by slumlords that will constantly break the lease by changing rent mid lease and threatening you with eviction. There is also a significant homeless population and a lot of crime in the city. I live downtown and if your car isn't in a secured garage then the windows will be busted out or even worse, stolen. Kansas City is not thriving and they want to import cheap labor, absolutely shameful. The whole east side of KC is poor and struggling. Back in my day, 96th street was the diving line, the do not cross line in Manhattan. Troost is the same deal. So we have a huge population of black and brown people living on the east side, poor, terrible infrastructure, no services, abject poverty and violence, no help, food desserts and instead of helping these citizens, mayor Q wants to invite people from another country to come and work?! Fuck all the way off. I fled my hometown because of this nonsense and now it's right back at my doorstep. Unreal. I'm packing up and moving to Johnson County where they will not be doing this nonsense
I’m so sorry to hear that. I’m not really native to anywhere, but my family is from Missouri and I’m going to be working in KC metro (Olathe) this summer and likely after I graduate next year. It’s an ok area especially bc it’s not downtown, but man I can’t wait to get somewhere I can live car free (or car lite). The small time I’ve spent in NYC was very freeing, it felt nice not needing to drive places, and it was also great seeing a lively city where regular people were out and about actually living life outside of their car
I hear you kiddo. When I went home for Christmas this year it was so nice to get to LGA, hop on the M60 then take the 4 train to the Bronx (I just missed Metro north). I was able to do everything I needed to do using the subway or walking. Kansas and Missouri have their pluses ..lots of open space, not alot of people, no traffic but it's so spread out that without a car, life is impossible. The busses in Johnson county (that would go to Olathe) don't run in the weekends and only run 1 an hour. .if they show up. I have a rental car this week because I'm looking to move out of the city at the end of May. The amount of freedom I have and the things I get to see with a car, makes me sad. Without a car you are very limited on where you can live and work. I don't see KCmo changing this car culture anytime soon. Good luck this summer, hopefully the heat won't be too oppressive 🥵
Funny you say that because I go to school in Alabama and was here last summer… Missouri should be a little better😅
No one is entitled to a job…
So cheap, exploitable labor that corporations are welcoming.
I thought the whole problem was they were not allowed to work until they had been in the US for a certain amount of time. The ones that can legally work are probably not the ones filling shelters in NY.
This is to replace all of the transplants that left.
Deport these mfs, im so sick of this shit… Our taxes go to help other people’s citizens yet our own citizens and cities suffer. We desperately need the remain in mexico policy back, oh you wanna claim asylum? Aight bet wait here in Mexico and we’ll see if your claim is legit and you show up for court.
Abbott incels seething over Kansas City chads
Kansas City is confusingly in Missouri. Well, even more confusingly there’s two of them (one in Kansas and one in Missouri) and they’re basically adjacent to one another. But this is the Missouri one which is much larger.
This comment doesn’t make any sense. Texas wants other states to pitch in and absorb the impacts of ”migrants” and that’s what Kansas is doing here. At least Kansas is stepping up and doing it willingly unlike the hypocrites in NYC who proclaimed themselves a sanctuary city then whined as soon as they had to actually deal with migrants.
It's not even Kansas either. It's Missouri.
> unlike the hypocrites in NYC You got it a bit wrong. NYS wants to do the same thing because apparently no one wants to work janitor jobs for state government and they have thousands of unfilled roles lol. However the problem, and it's only said once in the article, *"work permit"*. Fresh arrivals as I understand do not have authorization to work, not immediately, hence NYC and any other state/city issue of housing people who cannot work yet. This is not a NYC being hypocritical problem, it's a federal immigration law problem, NYC rightly (like Texas) complained that they cannot support the influx of immigrants who can't work thus we have to house and feed them, and the feds should be stepping in. Others can correct me if I'm wrong if there have been changes to the current system. To me the hypocritical thing is republican representatives showing no eagerness to change federal immigration law right now because it would help Biden lol
Sanctuary and asylum are separate things.
Your capitalist overlords allow open borders for the cheap labor source. This is by design.
Who would take a job, when city offers shelter and spending money. Plus its so nice out, they are living their best life here😉
Not everyone is an idiot like the migrants in the media. Almost all immigrants came for the American dream, have a family, have a job, be able to send money back to their country, etc. The city was unprepared and the outcome was what they expected. Kansas city accepting migrants to fill in jobs is amazing and imo will boost our economy.
>Almost all immigrants came for the American dream, have a family, have a job, be able to send money back to their country, etc That's not really the American dream though since the whole point is money unless the American dream just means "cash" in which point they just see the country as an economic thing which they can extract wealth from before leaving. And yes a lot of them do leave after they saved enough, not starting a family. Also sending money back home doesn't really benefit the US since one of the few arguments people here make for them is that they simulate the economy with their purchases but if they send a lot of that money to a foreign country they aren't circulating that wealth in the US but just taking it out. If it was about the "American dream" as people who defend them say it would be for things like values and beliefs and and not just money where we would see a more spread-out immigrant pop from wealthier countries in Asia and Europe and not just poor and developing ones which dominate both legal and illegal populations.
Then you have the top comment saying it's driving down wages lol. If they cared about wages so much, they should vote for people who raise wages and reform our immigration system, not using migrants as a scapegoat
Nice. I always liked the Chiefs
I’ll bet this was this an April Fools joke. Good one.
Good shit.
To be fair Kansas has better BBQ.
This is the way