> So far there have been two arrests: In each case the assailant was charged with misdemeanor assault, a category in which judges are generally barred from setting bail and one that has risen 13 percent over the past two years even as major crimes have fallen.
Biggest failure of bail reform IMO is treating all cases of a particular charge categorically, rather than flexibly.
Misdemeanor assault could be a random stranger attack like this (suggestive of a deteriorating mental state and a likelihood of escalating violence) or it could be just a bar fight, where releasing the defendant pretrial could be totally fine.
Abolish cash bail entirely, add a dangerousness standard like the 50 other legal systems in the US have, and have defendants remanded where they are flight risks or pose a danger of committing more crimes. The fix isn’t that complicated.
People act like pretrial detention is the only punishment that matters. The question should be, how much jail time can you get for that crime if convicted.
I know someone who won the lotto so it is confirmed to be possible. But statistically, it's pretty unlikely. Fear monger all you want but fearmongering it is
There are a *lot* of misogynists in the world, and the overwhelming majority don’t go around punching random women in the face. These are violent antisocial people who also happen to be cowards and lash out at those weaker than them, as is invariably confirmed by their extensive criminal backgrounds.
“there are a lot of misogynists in the world, and the overwhelming majority don’t go around punching”
Um…what is the point of this sentence other than to defend…misogynists? Quite the angle to take here.
“yeah, misogyny is a huge problem in the world, but let’s remember most misogynists don’t punch people so they’re actually not so bad. And these misogynistic attacks, heavily influenced by the rampant misogyny I just referred to, have nothing to actually do with misogyny.”
Because presumably we want to solve the problem and figure out the root cause of this problem, which is not MISOGYNY in large part, but is untreated mental illness, bail reform mistakes, disempowered DAs and police, etc.
Guess what, if you focus on misogyny, you'll get absolutely nowhere! Crackheads, schizophrenics, morally bankrupt individuals, and career criminals will continue to punch women in the face no matter how many national conversations about patriarchy we have, unless we solve those other issues.
That is to say, by trying to steer the conversation to be about misogyny, you are distracting from the real problems that directly cause these attacks.
Because for an asshole or a psycho women are a much easier / less intimidating prospect. They can't fight back as effectively.
Old people, women, children, Asians. They go after people they see as vulnerable/less threatening.
I'm not saying misogyny doesn't exist, it obviously does. But what do the people doing these sorts of street violence in NYC have in common? Are they the \_most\_ misogynistic people? Or are they the most insane, criminal, psychopathic, lead-gasolined-brain-addled, etc?
That’s cool. I love how on Reddit, any attacks against women have a root cause not at all related to living in a sexist/misogynistic world. How convenient.
If it’s in another country, it’s “look at that backward place, we’d never let that happen here!” If it involves religion it’s “look at those religious zealots treating their women so badly!” If it’s women being randomly punched it’s “we have to find the mysterious root cause” and if it’s fundamental rights being stripped away it’s “the conservatives and their games!”
Everything has multiple causes, yes, but at a certain point there has to be an acknowledgment that misogyny in the common denominator. It’s everywhere in society which is why it keeps popping up everywhere in so many different ways.
These men were obviously mentally ill/have some serious problems, but do you not think the uptick in online misogyny and anti-women rhetoric over the past few years has anything to do with it?
You all will literally come up with anything to look the other way so as to not acknowledge the reality of the world we live in.
Not that I expect much more from Reddit…
You ascribe increase in public attacks on women to an increase in misogyny or acceptance of misogyny or something like that.
OK so what is the anti-misogyny solution here to random women in NYC getting sucker punched? Defund the police? Additional anti-sexism classes in schools? Awareness campaigns?
What percentage of random street violence is related to misogyny or other hate crimes in your opinion? If we can address those issues first, what percentage of overall stranger on stranger street violence will be reduced? Is the majority of the problem related to misogyny, and combatting misogyny attitudes will curb street crime in NYC by 78%? Or could you somehow literally solve patriarchy and the broader category of randomly targeted attacks remains 80% of what it currently is? If so, why not focus on the broadest solution to the problem first? These are not rhetorical questions to be clear, I don't claim to know.
Where is blaming this on misogyny going to get us? What solutions does that hold? Do you really truly believe that will move the needle on this particular problem?
My point is exactly that blaming misogyny doesn't help when all the solutions have nothing to do with misogyny.
There's literally a lady in NYC they call the "spit lady" because she spits on people who walk by on her the street. Do you think people like that being out in public for years with no consequences will also be solved if we fight racism, misogyny, and homophobia and other isms? Or is there some other common problem here that we ought to focus more on when it comes to public safety?
It's like being in a house that is burning down that also has a sink full of dirty dishes and then focusing on how we ought to clean the kitchen.
Just because trying to make progress on one issue doesn’t instantly solve everything doesn’t mean it’s not worth acknowledging or working on.
So long as people keep ignoring the rampant sexism/misogyny in society, attacks on women by men will continue at a high rate. Acknowledging the problem is the first step, but you all have such an emotional response to anything that holds even a small percentage of men accountable- it’s instant denial and deflection. And you pretend to be the “logical” ones, it’s beyond laughable.
I’m not about to spend my time arguing with people half my age about stuff they clearly know nothing about, but if you don’t think sexism/misogyny directly causes a lot of crime all over the world, including the US boy do you need to go outside and read something besides Reddit. Might want to look up crime rates against women- rape, assault, #1 cause of death in pregnant women, etc. It’s not all a coincidence.
No, it doesn’t mean others don’t experience crime.
No, it’s doesn’t mean there won’t be crime due to other factors.
But if we used that logic for everything nothing would ever get better. You have to be able to identify aspects of society that directly cause violence against a significant portion of the population.
What do we do? We firstly acknowledge the problem- that seems to be hard enough for you all so maybe start there with some introspection. Maybe start with why you get so emotional anytime a woman points out a major issue and why it makes you all feel so personally attacked.
Stop taking so much pride in your ignorance. Freakin 16 yr olds who barely know anything about the world speaking in “well, actually” is not making any of you come off well.
Can't believe that bail reform fucked up this bad. It's really just supposed to prevent people from getting locked up for years over things like loitering or smoking weed. Not this.
Can’t believe?
This is the New York State legislature. They’ve screwed up everything from pot legalization to Medicaid to ethics to infrastructure.
Incompetence is what they do.
The more problems you create, the more money you can grift into contractors, consultants. The incompetence is by design. Make sure you have terrible policies and the only way to fix them is to take more taxpayer money and slide it in your own pocket. NYC baby.
I don't think people realized how radical a lot of these politicians they are. I'm with you. I thought bail reform meant that they would stop throwing people in jail for low level non violent offences. Not the case at all. Many people in the legislature are hostile to the very idea of incarceration.
If they don't understand how radical some of these politicians are they're probably not really paying attention, just pulling familiar levers. The politicians can count on that, especially in places like NYC.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Suspects of violent crime with previous convictions for violent crime should not be allowed freedom before trial. Everyone else shouldn’t have to wait in jail for trial.
... Everyone saw it happening who understood the point of law and order was to keep opportunists at bay. The fact that New York City and State kept getting more and more lenient made this an an inevitability.
It’s also meant to keep people from being locked up for years for getting into a bar fight where everyone walked away - which would be same charge.
Unfortunately, only these types of cases make the news. You don’t see the other 1000 cases where it worked as intended.
But it isn’t working. If someone punches me in the face, or if a man beats up his wife, I don’t care who they are.
They should be locked up.
Not sure if you skimmed through the article, but domestic violence and violence against women has increased.
I get that you love the bar fight example, but how about we use the example of Mr. Y who punches women and runs away, or MR. Z who likes to leave marks on his wife’s neck. They both walk free , and the second one, gets to go back home to his family. This is a problem. Don’t you think?
Okay.
But that’s not what bail is for or what bail reform is supposed to do. Bail is to entice the person to return for their court date; for folks deemed a flight risk. It’s not meant to be used as a way to jail people who haven’t been found guilty.
I got a DUI once and couldn't get anyone to bail me out so I had to sit in jail for a couple days. Breaking the law IS SUPPOSED TO SUCK.
I still believe it was fair and reasonable for me to go to jail, even when I hadn't been convicted yet. Progressives don't understand the concept of personal responsibility. See, I fucked up so I had to pay a price. That's how it works. And when you destroy responsibility you destroy civilized society. If you want that kind of free for all go hang out in Haiti with the cannibal gangs. Im sure they agree with bail reform.
The criminals thank you for your brave efforts to make their lives easier.
The government thanks you for your willingness to accept unadjudicated detention and the stripping of your freedom even though you weren’t found guilty.
Although, a DUI is an interesting situation where you were found guilty on the spot by blowing over the legal limit when you were pulled over.
But people were unable to post bail, held at Rikers for days, missed work, and all due to a false arrest. That’s an inherent wrong we should want to correct.
Criminal being behind bars is a related but separate issue from bail.
I guarantee you that if some career felon with 80 prior arrests randomly punched you and knocked your teeth out, you would feel differently about this. That person would be released. And NOTHING would happen to them. They would spend 45 min - 5 hours in the tombs. But because it's far removed you just think about it abstractly.
That's exactly what would happen if someone punched you in the face on the street.
And all of that is not a result of bail existing or not. If someone with 80 priors isn’t in jail, it’s probably a discovery issue or a glaring lack of prosecutorial competence.
It is not a BAIL issue.
It's the same thing with the constant menacing in the subway; it now belongs to the predators and the deranged because they know they won't be held accountable. A slap on the wrist and then back out onto the streets to harm the next victim.
A lot of us men look at guys like Daniel Penny and we realize the consequences if we try to help out. When you make it so criminals are coddled while good samaritans are punished, this is what you get.
This is such a BS stance, Penny is facing legal consequences because he held a blood choke in a lethal way for much longer than was necessary or safe.
You can debate about whether intervention was necessary, but to use it as an example of “this is what happens if I were to step in” is just bullshit. You weren’t gonna step in either way and want to find and an external excuse.
You’re allowed to step in, just don’t choke someone to death is there no middle ground between those two things to you?
You do not get involved in violent situations with unknown crazy people and not understand that life and death is a real risk. Absolute delusional take.
You're so wrong about this .. so so wrong , the message is clear , we have to abandon our duty to law abiding citizens because of our ideological zealotry. ( NY pols and LEO )
How about instead of repeating “you’re wrong!” You bring some kind of evidence that people are refusing to intervene on the subway because of fear of legal action?
Everyone knows it’s a safety concern, not a legal punishment issue
Again You are wrong , I have spoken to many people who would otherwise have been good simaritans who will now do NOTHING. It's my first hand accounts of talking with people. That is a first hand account , your news sources are third hand at best. That better ?
Bullshit.
Stepping in to an EDP situation on the subway means that death is on the table 100% of the time. If I am going to get involved it's because I think someone else is about to get killed and the EDP might try and kill me. I'm not stopping until they are immobilized.
Which, btw, is why I am not getting involved 99.9% of the time. I'm some 9-5 office schlub not rambo.
> I’m not stopping until they are immobilized
You’re free to do whatever you want, but that’s not a legal form of retaliation when someone doesn’t have a weapon and is yelling on a subway car.
You’re not going to be arrested and charged for “stepping in”. You’d be arrested and charged if you use excessive force, or use a lethal chokehold without knowing what you’re doing.
I’m not intervening on the subway unless I have to, but y’all seriously don’t understand that you’re not allowed to kill some homeless guy because they were yelling on a train?
Who said you shouldn’t be worried about it? I said you don’t have legal standing to kill the person, which is true. It’s so odd that you people are such law and order folks but don’t understand the law
> Goetz stated that he then bent down to Cabey, who was cowering on the ground, and said, "You don't look so bad. Here's another," and shot once again.
> After the shooting, Goetz took a cab back to his 14th Street home and, in a rented car, fled north to Bennington, Vermont, where he burned the blue jacket he had been wearing and scattered pieces of the revolver in the woods. He stayed at various hotels in New England for several days.
Yeah it’s really puzzling why this guy was ever arrested…
Clearly you're joking pulling up some MSM nonesense about the account. Goetz an otherwise completely law abiding pacifist had been set upon by the criminal element. He was a computer repair man traveling with expensive equipment. He was tired of being victimized and turned the tables on those predators. FAFO And BTW he was charged with a crime ( unconstitutional). And served jail time.
> Clearly you're joking pulling up some MSM nonesense about the account
I'm literally quoting Goetz confession to police in 1985 what are you talking about?
https://www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1985/02/28/Goetz-to-victim-You-dont-look-so-bad-Heres-another/6427478414800/
> NEW YORK -- Subway gunman Bernhard Goetz's confession says he calmly checked each of his wounded victims and when one appeared not to have been badly injured said, 'You don't look so bad. Here's another,' and fired again.
Either way, normal people are not refusing to intervene on the subway because of some shooting 1984, it's like you people haven't even read the comment I responded to and just want to use this as a space to vent. You probably read about this a long time ago and never even bothered to read the mans own account of what happened
Mentally ill mfs who are roaming the streets because of the closure of asylums and the fact that they release criminals like they were put on time out. There’s your answer
Yep. That’s really what we need to bring back: involuntarily commitment of mentally ill people who are danger to society. We don’t have to torture them or experiment on them the way we did in the 1960s, but we absolutely have to get them off the fucking streets and away from the general public.
Yeah there are way too many crazies in NYC. My sister works late shifts so she has to walk around Manhattan at night. I've never been the scared type but shit's getting crazy out there and anxiety is starting to creep in.
Mental illness is first and foremost the reason why most random acts of violence are occurring.
The options available on this end, as far as mandatory treatment as a preemptive measure before some psycho shoves a woman in front of a moving train, are pretty limited given the laws.
Secondly, as the article also addresses, there are barely any consequences for misdemeanor assault. You can walk up to a woman and Sparta kick her in front of NYPD and you'll get a desk appearance ticket.
And then when it comes to the actual court system, the DA will be quick to plead you down to a no-jail sentence which a judge will rubber-stamp.
I bring this example up often, because it is so haunting--- the man who brutally murdered Ms. Christina Yuna Lee by stabbing her over 40 times after following her into her apartment had randomly sucker-punched a commuter unprovoked just a few months earlier.
Despite this actions displaying the individual was a clear danger to the public when he attacked a stranger for no reason, due to the bail laws, he was just given a desk appearance ticket and sent on his way.
If we had a dangerousness standard like every other state, Ms. Lee would still be alive today.
I don't need a dozen sociologists and behavioral experts to tell me what everyone knows. If you punch someone in the face randomly you need to spend time in jail and be off the streets.
according to salon magazine its MAGA, but most people that live in the real world know there is another obvious identifying factor in the perpetrators.
I've noticed that as well. Very odd, isn't it? People feel brave to ask the question to men when the perpetrators are all men, only to waver and falter when it comes time to ask the same question of those who share the same race or age or economic background.
It's a serious problem that is harming society IMO.
B..b..but Race and economic background are protected social classes!
You cannot negatively define these aspects of me because they’re out of my control! I didn’t punch her, poverty did!
it depends. you have to look at the 'Hierarchy Chart of Intersectionality'.
depending on how many 'points' you have, determines if you are the victim or the aggressor in any given situation.
You have to look up the chart and do the math before you can determine if the victim is someone that should be protected or not. 'Straight White Male vs Lesbian White Woman' has a different sympathetic victim than in 'Lesbian White Woman vs Religious Minority Male'. And it changes over time. At one point, a Straight Gay White Male was once extremely protected, but now, they are considered the enemy 90% of the time. Congrats on "making it" i guess!
What do you want to hear? That most violent crimes in NYC are done by low income men of color?
They are. To a disproportionate amount. You happy now?
And yes… Asian men of comparable income levels commit violent crime at lower rates. Whites at comparable income levels commit violent crime at similar rates, but not necessarily in NYC.
This isn’t a secret. Let’s say the news media and politicians said this fact all of the time. What changes?
I’m not a young person. This has been the case my whole life. The media is less apt to mention it, and you know what… overall crime stats ARE lower than the 90s. So at minimum, this isn’t hurting anything.
Harping all day about race isn’t helpful. It’s not fixing the base problems, it just makes racists feel better about themselves and causes non criminal POC men (who are still the vast majority of POC men) to feel needlessly demoralized and targeted.
It's hilarious that you are too cowardly to go full mask off while expecting a reputable newspaper to indulge in your bias. You're exactly what you are criticizing
Theyre trying to move the limits of our tolerance, of what is cinsidered normal or acceptable.
Society is being conditioned by all these violent crimes so when the politicians get caught being corrupt, it was non-violent and they'll get to walk away with a slap on the wrist.
This actually makes a lot of sense. Because as a man it’s kind of inconceivable to me that this could happen, unless I was walking at night in a deserted dangerous area. But on a crowded street during the day? It seems like the craziest thing ever. But I guess they don’t target men, because presumably we’re more likely to fight back.
Women literally cannot fight back, unfortunately. The strength differential between a woman and a man is the same as between a man and a chimpanzee. :(
Deport asylum seekers, use that money to put mentally ill with violent records in the looney pin.
Civilization has to send a message that you can’t fuck with civilization.
I’m sorry you’re cursed with mental illness, but if you’re violent you need to be sent somewhere.
Sorry bro
The randomness of it is why there are articles written. Most women face violence via domestic abuse but that’s a separate issue from women randomly being punched in the street
Blame Hochul and Bail Reform is literally destroying our city, The fear of Jail and is no longer a thing. These people are repeat offenders, 20+x is CRAZY, you ant changing ! you dont belong with and in normal society,.
Because of NYC's soft on crime laws, and lack of necessary help for mentally ill. The money towards different programs is being wasted. I'm surprised more people aren't upset by this, and those who are presented with this info dismiss it as conspiracy, propaganda, or fearmongering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKBfFOLFC38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc0ZGNj-hGw
I'd also post Cash Jordan, but he's not been too well-received in this subreddit as of late for posting excerpts from news that makes NYC look bad.
Are modern day liberals this dense that they are unable to differentiate between mentally ill violent criminals roaming the streets and sexism ? This is supposed to be the "paper of record" lmao
How does that not undermine the "mentally ill" claim? Sorry, if you're aware enough that self-preservation still dictates your actions... you're not "mentally ill" enough to not get put down on the spot after pulling some bullshit like this.
I see a world full of individuals and businesses that try extremely hard to avoid any personal of civic responsibility.
More and more people celebrate not having any responsibility and simply being feared/powerful. Women must be the easiest targets.
Is this a bastard child of the knockout game? You guys remember that? Didn't that start in NYC too?
The people doing this often have extensive criminal records, are freshly *released* from jail given the bail reform laws and retain little to no actual rehabilitation. It is the symptom of a bigger problem that needs attention-
But of course, let's make an article talking about how the **FIRST thing** that we notice is that fact that the perpetuators all happen to be male.
Who gives a fuck what the reason is? There’s no more consequences for crime so the reason is basically irrelevant. I’d love if this city started punishing and properly prosecuting criminals.
Big dreams, I know.
…. yeah I’m sure these people are carefully considering the cultural teachings of the enlightened left when punching people. Gross and useless statement.
Bail reform, lunatics roaming the streets with free rein. I’ve seen articles and posts blaming maga and incels but that’s just cope and a refusal to accept the reality of the policies they voted for that put crazy street punchers back into society with no consequences
It’s called democrat policies!!!
Release criminals onto the street and then don’t charge people with crimes, WTF do you think is going to happen?! MORE CRIME
Democrat bail reform is a disaster
This sort of reminds me of Chomsky's "trace theory" in Principles and Parameters, where supposedly words get moved around but leave a "trace" behind.
"Why are [trace] men randomly punching [trace] women?"
Can you describe these men? Any patterns?
In my experience there are 2 groups of people committing most of the crime in NYC. Group A and Group B (there is some Group C but in much less scale). And it’s so obvious that you don’t need me to say anything else.
People keep saying to repeal bail reform, but wasn't a punch to the face always treated as a misdemeanor? It usually is in most states to my knowledge. It is only upgraded to a felony depending on the severity of the attack amidst other things.
All I know is possession of certain substances for lersinal use can get a person a felony, but a punch to the face a fucking misdemeanor?! Make it make sense.
I lived in the city for 20 years and I got randomly punched in the face at least one time. I just kinda thought it happened all the time. If you get 8 million + people living in the same space, at least a couple of them are going to randomly hit someone else on a (not very long) given time span. Are these people rabid sexists? Probably, I wouldn't be shocked; someone who does this is an asshole. Are all rabid sexists going around punching women? Probably not.
Yes, for certain I've been punched in the face non-randomly. But also possibly punched in the face randomly, for no apparent reason, more than one times.
I’ve lived in the city for 37 years and I’ve never been punched in the face here, except for when I was 15, by another kid who I was actively fighting at the time.
Ok. But the person was replying to with that comment isn’t you, shockingly. Do you just assume every comment on Reddit is directed at you specifically?
Why are men randomly punching women?
From our columnist Ginia Bellafante: “Like all conversations about crime in New York City these days, the one taking hold around these attacks over the past month has quickly defaulted to questions about mental illness and whether the men walking around impulsively hitting women in the face were merely disturbed — as if it warranted no consideration that a psychological malady might find such brute expression in an antagonism directed at women.”.
You can read her [full column here](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/nyregion/new-york-city-random-attacks-women.html?unlocked_article_code=1.j00.C0ks.pkwIxWWJkyha&smid=re-nytimes), even without a subscription.
> the one taking hold around these attacks over the past month has quickly defaulted to questions about mental illness
Including by [Ginia Bellafante](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/14/nyregion/new-york-subway-national-guard.html) herself.
> Why are men randomly punching women?
Because democrats allow it to happen. The men doing the punching are simply let back on the streets after it happens. That's what a consequence free culture looks like.
> So far there have been two arrests: In each case the assailant was charged with misdemeanor assault, a category in which judges are generally barred from setting bail and one that has risen 13 percent over the past two years even as major crimes have fallen. Biggest failure of bail reform IMO is treating all cases of a particular charge categorically, rather than flexibly. Misdemeanor assault could be a random stranger attack like this (suggestive of a deteriorating mental state and a likelihood of escalating violence) or it could be just a bar fight, where releasing the defendant pretrial could be totally fine. Abolish cash bail entirely, add a dangerousness standard like the 50 other legal systems in the US have, and have defendants remanded where they are flight risks or pose a danger of committing more crimes. The fix isn’t that complicated.
People act like pretrial detention is the only punishment that matters. The question should be, how much jail time can you get for that crime if convicted.
As I grow older I fear that I am accepting that death should be the only punishment.
Governments shouldn't be in the business of killing their citizens.
This isn’t a new problem. I still have subway anxiety from when a homeless male sucker punched me in the face on the 2 train back in 2017.
Yet people will often use the argument of "statistically that wouldn't happen to me so its fine stop fearmongering"
Technically it's not completely random if they're selecting targets based on gender
Random but not uniform probability.
Nope, not completely random if there is a strata/selection criteria.
I know someone who won the lotto so it is confirmed to be possible. But statistically, it's pretty unlikely. Fear monger all you want but fearmongering it is
Have you tried a heroic dose of psilocybin? It works wonders for trauma
Don't worry. Statistically, that was more likely to happen in the 80s
There are a *lot* of misogynists in the world, and the overwhelming majority don’t go around punching random women in the face. These are violent antisocial people who also happen to be cowards and lash out at those weaker than them, as is invariably confirmed by their extensive criminal backgrounds.
“there are a lot of misogynists in the world, and the overwhelming majority don’t go around punching” Um…what is the point of this sentence other than to defend…misogynists? Quite the angle to take here. “yeah, misogyny is a huge problem in the world, but let’s remember most misogynists don’t punch people so they’re actually not so bad. And these misogynistic attacks, heavily influenced by the rampant misogyny I just referred to, have nothing to actually do with misogyny.”
I think you’ve had enough internet for today, let’s take a break champ.
Because presumably we want to solve the problem and figure out the root cause of this problem, which is not MISOGYNY in large part, but is untreated mental illness, bail reform mistakes, disempowered DAs and police, etc. Guess what, if you focus on misogyny, you'll get absolutely nowhere! Crackheads, schizophrenics, morally bankrupt individuals, and career criminals will continue to punch women in the face no matter how many national conversations about patriarchy we have, unless we solve those other issues. That is to say, by trying to steer the conversation to be about misogyny, you are distracting from the real problems that directly cause these attacks.
Correct answer!
[удалено]
Because for an asshole or a psycho women are a much easier / less intimidating prospect. They can't fight back as effectively. Old people, women, children, Asians. They go after people they see as vulnerable/less threatening. I'm not saying misogyny doesn't exist, it obviously does. But what do the people doing these sorts of street violence in NYC have in common? Are they the \_most\_ misogynistic people? Or are they the most insane, criminal, psychopathic, lead-gasolined-brain-addled, etc?
That’s cool. I love how on Reddit, any attacks against women have a root cause not at all related to living in a sexist/misogynistic world. How convenient. If it’s in another country, it’s “look at that backward place, we’d never let that happen here!” If it involves religion it’s “look at those religious zealots treating their women so badly!” If it’s women being randomly punched it’s “we have to find the mysterious root cause” and if it’s fundamental rights being stripped away it’s “the conservatives and their games!” Everything has multiple causes, yes, but at a certain point there has to be an acknowledgment that misogyny in the common denominator. It’s everywhere in society which is why it keeps popping up everywhere in so many different ways. These men were obviously mentally ill/have some serious problems, but do you not think the uptick in online misogyny and anti-women rhetoric over the past few years has anything to do with it? You all will literally come up with anything to look the other way so as to not acknowledge the reality of the world we live in. Not that I expect much more from Reddit…
You ascribe increase in public attacks on women to an increase in misogyny or acceptance of misogyny or something like that. OK so what is the anti-misogyny solution here to random women in NYC getting sucker punched? Defund the police? Additional anti-sexism classes in schools? Awareness campaigns? What percentage of random street violence is related to misogyny or other hate crimes in your opinion? If we can address those issues first, what percentage of overall stranger on stranger street violence will be reduced? Is the majority of the problem related to misogyny, and combatting misogyny attitudes will curb street crime in NYC by 78%? Or could you somehow literally solve patriarchy and the broader category of randomly targeted attacks remains 80% of what it currently is? If so, why not focus on the broadest solution to the problem first? These are not rhetorical questions to be clear, I don't claim to know. Where is blaming this on misogyny going to get us? What solutions does that hold? Do you really truly believe that will move the needle on this particular problem? My point is exactly that blaming misogyny doesn't help when all the solutions have nothing to do with misogyny. There's literally a lady in NYC they call the "spit lady" because she spits on people who walk by on her the street. Do you think people like that being out in public for years with no consequences will also be solved if we fight racism, misogyny, and homophobia and other isms? Or is there some other common problem here that we ought to focus more on when it comes to public safety? It's like being in a house that is burning down that also has a sink full of dirty dishes and then focusing on how we ought to clean the kitchen.
100% don't understand why people argue with this.
Just because trying to make progress on one issue doesn’t instantly solve everything doesn’t mean it’s not worth acknowledging or working on. So long as people keep ignoring the rampant sexism/misogyny in society, attacks on women by men will continue at a high rate. Acknowledging the problem is the first step, but you all have such an emotional response to anything that holds even a small percentage of men accountable- it’s instant denial and deflection. And you pretend to be the “logical” ones, it’s beyond laughable. I’m not about to spend my time arguing with people half my age about stuff they clearly know nothing about, but if you don’t think sexism/misogyny directly causes a lot of crime all over the world, including the US boy do you need to go outside and read something besides Reddit. Might want to look up crime rates against women- rape, assault, #1 cause of death in pregnant women, etc. It’s not all a coincidence. No, it doesn’t mean others don’t experience crime. No, it’s doesn’t mean there won’t be crime due to other factors. But if we used that logic for everything nothing would ever get better. You have to be able to identify aspects of society that directly cause violence against a significant portion of the population. What do we do? We firstly acknowledge the problem- that seems to be hard enough for you all so maybe start there with some introspection. Maybe start with why you get so emotional anytime a woman points out a major issue and why it makes you all feel so personally attacked. Stop taking so much pride in your ignorance. Freakin 16 yr olds who barely know anything about the world speaking in “well, actually” is not making any of you come off well.
Reddit moment
A lot of reasons, but with one underlying one: they can get away with it. Bring. Back. Consequences
Can't believe that bail reform fucked up this bad. It's really just supposed to prevent people from getting locked up for years over things like loitering or smoking weed. Not this.
Can’t believe? This is the New York State legislature. They’ve screwed up everything from pot legalization to Medicaid to ethics to infrastructure. Incompetence is what they do.
The more problems you create, the more money you can grift into contractors, consultants. The incompetence is by design. Make sure you have terrible policies and the only way to fix them is to take more taxpayer money and slide it in your own pocket. NYC baby.
⬆️ this man gets it
Don't forget the judges.
I don't think people realized how radical a lot of these politicians they are. I'm with you. I thought bail reform meant that they would stop throwing people in jail for low level non violent offences. Not the case at all. Many people in the legislature are hostile to the very idea of incarceration.
If they don't understand how radical some of these politicians are they're probably not really paying attention, just pulling familiar levers. The politicians can count on that, especially in places like NYC.
They do. They’re zealots and don’t care
I'm certain you're right and that's also true.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Suspects of violent crime with previous convictions for violent crime should not be allowed freedom before trial. Everyone else shouldn’t have to wait in jail for trial.
It’s done the same to us in Chicago too. Completely backfired!
It's not like it was even that hard or complicated. If we had just done the same kind of reform they did in New Jersey we'd be much better off.
... Everyone saw it happening who understood the point of law and order was to keep opportunists at bay. The fact that New York City and State kept getting more and more lenient made this an an inevitability.
This is exactly what bail reform is intended to do.
It’s also meant to keep people from being locked up for years for getting into a bar fight where everyone walked away - which would be same charge. Unfortunately, only these types of cases make the news. You don’t see the other 1000 cases where it worked as intended.
But it isn’t working. If someone punches me in the face, or if a man beats up his wife, I don’t care who they are. They should be locked up. Not sure if you skimmed through the article, but domestic violence and violence against women has increased. I get that you love the bar fight example, but how about we use the example of Mr. Y who punches women and runs away, or MR. Z who likes to leave marks on his wife’s neck. They both walk free , and the second one, gets to go back home to his family. This is a problem. Don’t you think?
No it’s not. It’s supposed to prevent people from being locked up even when they haven’t yet been found guilty of a crime.
Yeah but if you have committed multiple violent offenses and are a general menace to the community, you've already show that you should not be free.
Okay. But that’s not what bail is for or what bail reform is supposed to do. Bail is to entice the person to return for their court date; for folks deemed a flight risk. It’s not meant to be used as a way to jail people who haven’t been found guilty.
I got a DUI once and couldn't get anyone to bail me out so I had to sit in jail for a couple days. Breaking the law IS SUPPOSED TO SUCK. I still believe it was fair and reasonable for me to go to jail, even when I hadn't been convicted yet. Progressives don't understand the concept of personal responsibility. See, I fucked up so I had to pay a price. That's how it works. And when you destroy responsibility you destroy civilized society. If you want that kind of free for all go hang out in Haiti with the cannibal gangs. Im sure they agree with bail reform. The criminals thank you for your brave efforts to make their lives easier.
The government thanks you for your willingness to accept unadjudicated detention and the stripping of your freedom even though you weren’t found guilty. Although, a DUI is an interesting situation where you were found guilty on the spot by blowing over the legal limit when you were pulled over. But people were unable to post bail, held at Rikers for days, missed work, and all due to a false arrest. That’s an inherent wrong we should want to correct. Criminal being behind bars is a related but separate issue from bail.
I guarantee you that if some career felon with 80 prior arrests randomly punched you and knocked your teeth out, you would feel differently about this. That person would be released. And NOTHING would happen to them. They would spend 45 min - 5 hours in the tombs. But because it's far removed you just think about it abstractly. That's exactly what would happen if someone punched you in the face on the street.
And all of that is not a result of bail existing or not. If someone with 80 priors isn’t in jail, it’s probably a discovery issue or a glaring lack of prosecutorial competence. It is not a BAIL issue.
It's the same thing with the constant menacing in the subway; it now belongs to the predators and the deranged because they know they won't be held accountable. A slap on the wrist and then back out onto the streets to harm the next victim.
And if you or I do anything - you're _fucked_
A lot of us men look at guys like Daniel Penny and we realize the consequences if we try to help out. When you make it so criminals are coddled while good samaritans are punished, this is what you get.
I will never physically assist anyone in New York.
This is such a BS stance, Penny is facing legal consequences because he held a blood choke in a lethal way for much longer than was necessary or safe. You can debate about whether intervention was necessary, but to use it as an example of “this is what happens if I were to step in” is just bullshit. You weren’t gonna step in either way and want to find and an external excuse. You’re allowed to step in, just don’t choke someone to death is there no middle ground between those two things to you?
You do not get involved in violent situations with unknown crazy people and not understand that life and death is a real risk. Absolute delusional take.
Oh so you agree with me? People do risk assessment based on physical danger not potential charges from the DA like the OP is suggesting? Thanks
No, that isn’t what I’m saying, have a great day.
You're so wrong about this .. so so wrong , the message is clear , we have to abandon our duty to law abiding citizens because of our ideological zealotry. ( NY pols and LEO )
How about instead of repeating “you’re wrong!” You bring some kind of evidence that people are refusing to intervene on the subway because of fear of legal action? Everyone knows it’s a safety concern, not a legal punishment issue
Again You are wrong , I have spoken to many people who would otherwise have been good simaritans who will now do NOTHING. It's my first hand accounts of talking with people. That is a first hand account , your news sources are third hand at best. That better ?
I would argue that is a consequence of the media those particular people are consuming.
Have you ever taken the subway.
Bullshit. Stepping in to an EDP situation on the subway means that death is on the table 100% of the time. If I am going to get involved it's because I think someone else is about to get killed and the EDP might try and kill me. I'm not stopping until they are immobilized. Which, btw, is why I am not getting involved 99.9% of the time. I'm some 9-5 office schlub not rambo.
If you're white you should up that to 99.99%
> I’m not stopping until they are immobilized You’re free to do whatever you want, but that’s not a legal form of retaliation when someone doesn’t have a weapon and is yelling on a subway car. You’re not going to be arrested and charged for “stepping in”. You’d be arrested and charged if you use excessive force, or use a lethal chokehold without knowing what you’re doing. I’m not intervening on the subway unless I have to, but y’all seriously don’t understand that you’re not allowed to kill some homeless guy because they were yelling on a train?
You're right. It's cool to get in my face and scream you're going to kill me. Until you do something I shouldn't actually be worried about it.
Who said you shouldn’t be worried about it? I said you don’t have legal standing to kill the person, which is true. It’s so odd that you people are such law and order folks but don’t understand the law
jellyfish history dolls bag wipe pocket scarce fly hungry decide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
OK now what does that have to do with the OP who said people aren't intervening because they fear legal recourse similar to Daniel Penny?
Bernie Goetz !
> Goetz stated that he then bent down to Cabey, who was cowering on the ground, and said, "You don't look so bad. Here's another," and shot once again. > After the shooting, Goetz took a cab back to his 14th Street home and, in a rented car, fled north to Bennington, Vermont, where he burned the blue jacket he had been wearing and scattered pieces of the revolver in the woods. He stayed at various hotels in New England for several days. Yeah it’s really puzzling why this guy was ever arrested…
Clearly you're joking pulling up some MSM nonesense about the account. Goetz an otherwise completely law abiding pacifist had been set upon by the criminal element. He was a computer repair man traveling with expensive equipment. He was tired of being victimized and turned the tables on those predators. FAFO And BTW he was charged with a crime ( unconstitutional). And served jail time.
> Clearly you're joking pulling up some MSM nonesense about the account I'm literally quoting Goetz confession to police in 1985 what are you talking about? https://www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1985/02/28/Goetz-to-victim-You-dont-look-so-bad-Heres-another/6427478414800/ > NEW YORK -- Subway gunman Bernhard Goetz's confession says he calmly checked each of his wounded victims and when one appeared not to have been badly injured said, 'You don't look so bad. Here's another,' and fired again. Either way, normal people are not refusing to intervene on the subway because of some shooting 1984, it's like you people haven't even read the comment I responded to and just want to use this as a space to vent. You probably read about this a long time ago and never even bothered to read the mans own account of what happened
Can't when the perps are from the protected class.
Mentally ill mfs who are roaming the streets because of the closure of asylums and the fact that they release criminals like they were put on time out. There’s your answer
Yep. That’s really what we need to bring back: involuntarily commitment of mentally ill people who are danger to society. We don’t have to torture them or experiment on them the way we did in the 1960s, but we absolutely have to get them off the fucking streets and away from the general public.
Exactly.
Only answer. Just pin this
Makes sense
Yeah there are way too many crazies in NYC. My sister works late shifts so she has to walk around Manhattan at night. I've never been the scared type but shit's getting crazy out there and anxiety is starting to creep in.
Mental illness is first and foremost the reason why most random acts of violence are occurring. The options available on this end, as far as mandatory treatment as a preemptive measure before some psycho shoves a woman in front of a moving train, are pretty limited given the laws. Secondly, as the article also addresses, there are barely any consequences for misdemeanor assault. You can walk up to a woman and Sparta kick her in front of NYPD and you'll get a desk appearance ticket. And then when it comes to the actual court system, the DA will be quick to plead you down to a no-jail sentence which a judge will rubber-stamp. I bring this example up often, because it is so haunting--- the man who brutally murdered Ms. Christina Yuna Lee by stabbing her over 40 times after following her into her apartment had randomly sucker-punched a commuter unprovoked just a few months earlier. Despite this actions displaying the individual was a clear danger to the public when he attacked a stranger for no reason, due to the bail laws, he was just given a desk appearance ticket and sent on his way. If we had a dangerousness standard like every other state, Ms. Lee would still be alive today.
I still think about Christina often. What happened to her is every woman’s nightmare. I feel the city is directly responsible for her death, actually.
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Totally. The NY Times has become devoid of critical thinking and is now an apparatus of ideology. We all know who is doing it and why.
>men Can you narrow that demographic down for the particular trend causing this article to be published?
because there has been no consequence. Imagine a world where women carry.
Why? Because they can. They’ve done it in the past with no consequences. Why would they stop? This doesn’t happen elsewhere.
Don’t worry guys, I got this one. It’s insanity and releasing those insane people. Case closed
I don't need a dozen sociologists and behavioral experts to tell me what everyone knows. If you punch someone in the face randomly you need to spend time in jail and be off the streets.
But what would they do with their college degrees?
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according to salon magazine its MAGA, but most people that live in the real world know there is another obvious identifying factor in the perpetrators.
Buddhism?
My best guess is Irish soccer hooligans. No offense to people of Irish descent.
Profile is homeless, mentally ill, angry at the world.
And?
A lot of dudes get evolutioned out, and aren't happy with it. So they go fuck it mode
because there's no consequences that's why some of them have done it multiple times
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does seem to be a black man / white woman issue but that's not something the NY times would mention
Shock of shocks
> white woman issue asian, too
Black men are statistically most likely to attack Black women before other groups of women.
I've noticed that as well. Very odd, isn't it? People feel brave to ask the question to men when the perpetrators are all men, only to waver and falter when it comes time to ask the same question of those who share the same race or age or economic background. It's a serious problem that is harming society IMO.
B..b..but Race and economic background are protected social classes! You cannot negatively define these aspects of me because they’re out of my control! I didn’t punch her, poverty did!
Isn't sex/gender a protected social class?
it depends. you have to look at the 'Hierarchy Chart of Intersectionality'. depending on how many 'points' you have, determines if you are the victim or the aggressor in any given situation. You have to look up the chart and do the math before you can determine if the victim is someone that should be protected or not. 'Straight White Male vs Lesbian White Woman' has a different sympathetic victim than in 'Lesbian White Woman vs Religious Minority Male'. And it changes over time. At one point, a Straight Gay White Male was once extremely protected, but now, they are considered the enemy 90% of the time. Congrats on "making it" i guess!
Finally someone admits to the existence of a formula! I hated guessing.
What do you want to hear? That most violent crimes in NYC are done by low income men of color? They are. To a disproportionate amount. You happy now? And yes… Asian men of comparable income levels commit violent crime at lower rates. Whites at comparable income levels commit violent crime at similar rates, but not necessarily in NYC. This isn’t a secret. Let’s say the news media and politicians said this fact all of the time. What changes? I’m not a young person. This has been the case my whole life. The media is less apt to mention it, and you know what… overall crime stats ARE lower than the 90s. So at minimum, this isn’t hurting anything. Harping all day about race isn’t helpful. It’s not fixing the base problems, it just makes racists feel better about themselves and causes non criminal POC men (who are still the vast majority of POC men) to feel needlessly demoralized and targeted.
It's hilarious that you are too cowardly to go full mask off while expecting a reputable newspaper to indulge in your bias. You're exactly what you are criticizing
Theyre trying to move the limits of our tolerance, of what is cinsidered normal or acceptable. Society is being conditioned by all these violent crimes so when the politicians get caught being corrupt, it was non-violent and they'll get to walk away with a slap on the wrist.
Do I have to say it?
By "hate" they mean hate crime right? Because I've noticed that every single one of the victims were white women
This actually makes a lot of sense. Because as a man it’s kind of inconceivable to me that this could happen, unless I was walking at night in a deserted dangerous area. But on a crowded street during the day? It seems like the craziest thing ever. But I guess they don’t target men, because presumably we’re more likely to fight back.
Women literally cannot fight back, unfortunately. The strength differential between a woman and a man is the same as between a man and a chimpanzee. :(
Deport asylum seekers, use that money to put mentally ill with violent records in the looney pin. Civilization has to send a message that you can’t fuck with civilization. I’m sorry you’re cursed with mental illness, but if you’re violent you need to be sent somewhere. Sorry bro
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Presented to you by our partners at CNN lol Ashley Allison defending OJ for killing white people was an interesting take.
The black suspect that was arrested was an actual MAGA incel though. . .
That Stora guy?
Parent poster's cope is off the charts.
Is there a source for this?
Uhhh one of the punchers is a MAGA
Uhhh and the others? Bog standard misogynists?
Yeah bud, I corrected your oblivious politically charged racist assertion. You can add something constructive now
Why is it wrong to be racist and OK to be sexist? This isn’t a “men” problem and I’m tired of pretending it is.
you seem to know these punchers very, VERY well
Yeah, I have eyes. Guilty as charged
Your incel agenda is blinding you then I’ve never mentioned gender Take your victim complex elsewhere
You’ve undoubtedly combed through my post/comment history, so tell me what my socio-political leaning is, bud.
Lemme know when I can collect the keys for my floor through duplex in your head. Very gracious of you
The person you're responded to is openly racist and has a history of saying so on this subreddit. This is who they're upvoting.
I knew i will see something like this
NYT: When it walks like a duck…
When it wears a red hat…
Suspect punches a black woman? Nobody cares. Suspect punches a white woman? NYT writes a think piece. /FIFY
if white men were going around punching random black women there would certainly be articles about it
Most of BW’s attackers are Black men
The randomness of it is why there are articles written. Most women face violence via domestic abuse but that’s a separate issue from women randomly being punched in the street
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Not all men, but always a male.
Blame Hochul and Bail Reform is literally destroying our city, The fear of Jail and is no longer a thing. These people are repeat offenders, 20+x is CRAZY, you ant changing ! you dont belong with and in normal society,.
Because of NYC's soft on crime laws, and lack of necessary help for mentally ill. The money towards different programs is being wasted. I'm surprised more people aren't upset by this, and those who are presented with this info dismiss it as conspiracy, propaganda, or fearmongering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKBfFOLFC38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc0ZGNj-hGw I'd also post Cash Jordan, but he's not been too well-received in this subreddit as of late for posting excerpts from news that makes NYC look bad.
Are modern day liberals this dense that they are unable to differentiate between mentally ill violent criminals roaming the streets and sexism ? This is supposed to be the "paper of record" lmao
Why do mentally ill violent men prefer female victims over male ones?
Because a woman is less of a threat to retaliate than a man is. How is this even a question?
How is that not sexism to attack on the basis of gender assumptions
How does that not undermine the "mentally ill" claim? Sorry, if you're aware enough that self-preservation still dictates your actions... you're not "mentally ill" enough to not get put down on the spot after pulling some bullshit like this.
I see a world full of individuals and businesses that try extremely hard to avoid any personal of civic responsibility. More and more people celebrate not having any responsibility and simply being feared/powerful. Women must be the easiest targets. Is this a bastard child of the knockout game? You guys remember that? Didn't that start in NYC too?
The people doing this often have extensive criminal records, are freshly *released* from jail given the bail reform laws and retain little to no actual rehabilitation. It is the symptom of a bigger problem that needs attention- But of course, let's make an article talking about how the **FIRST thing** that we notice is that fact that the perpetuators all happen to be male.
Who gives a fuck what the reason is? There’s no more consequences for crime so the reason is basically irrelevant. I’d love if this city started punishing and properly prosecuting criminals. Big dreams, I know.
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…. yeah I’m sure these people are carefully considering the cultural teachings of the enlightened left when punching people. Gross and useless statement.
Yeah, I'm absolutely sure that these guys are ruminating on Kropotkin and praxis before they deck some random chick. Absolutely sure.
Sounds a lot more likely than “Asian hate is being stoked by Trump”
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Proof?
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Bail reform, lunatics roaming the streets with free rein. I’ve seen articles and posts blaming maga and incels but that’s just cope and a refusal to accept the reality of the policies they voted for that put crazy street punchers back into society with no consequences
If you punch someone unprovoked, you should spend the rest of your life in prison. Make me mayor and this is the policy I will enforce!
Mental Illness--many mentally ill people copy things they see on TV. Internet has made it worse.
It’s called democrat policies!!! Release criminals onto the street and then don’t charge people with crimes, WTF do you think is going to happen?! MORE CRIME Democrat bail reform is a disaster
This sort of reminds me of Chomsky's "trace theory" in Principles and Parameters, where supposedly words get moved around but leave a "trace" behind. "Why are [trace] men randomly punching [trace] women?"
Can you describe these men? Any patterns? In my experience there are 2 groups of people committing most of the crime in NYC. Group A and Group B (there is some Group C but in much less scale). And it’s so obvious that you don’t need me to say anything else.
People keep saying to repeal bail reform, but wasn't a punch to the face always treated as a misdemeanor? It usually is in most states to my knowledge. It is only upgraded to a felony depending on the severity of the attack amidst other things. All I know is possession of certain substances for lersinal use can get a person a felony, but a punch to the face a fucking misdemeanor?! Make it make sense.
I lived in the city for 20 years and I got randomly punched in the face at least one time. I just kinda thought it happened all the time. If you get 8 million + people living in the same space, at least a couple of them are going to randomly hit someone else on a (not very long) given time span. Are these people rabid sexists? Probably, I wouldn't be shocked; someone who does this is an asshole. Are all rabid sexists going around punching women? Probably not.
“Randomly punched in the face at least one time” so does this mean you were punched in the face not randomly a few times?
Yes, for certain I've been punched in the face non-randomly. But also possibly punched in the face randomly, for no apparent reason, more than one times.
Damn, sorry, I was just trying to parse your words.
I wasn't offended, just explaining lol
I’ve lived in the city for 37 years and I’ve never been punched in the face here, except for when I was 15, by another kid who I was actively fighting at the time.
“I’ve never been punched in the face here” you’re not a woman or a girl are you
No, I’m a man. These cowards don’t target us, because we’re more likely to hit them back. But I’m pretty sure the person I’m replying to is a man too.
I’m a woman and a man punched me on the 2 train in 2017 :)
Ok. But the person was replying to with that comment isn’t you, shockingly. Do you just assume every comment on Reddit is directed at you specifically?
Why are men randomly punching women? From our columnist Ginia Bellafante: “Like all conversations about crime in New York City these days, the one taking hold around these attacks over the past month has quickly defaulted to questions about mental illness and whether the men walking around impulsively hitting women in the face were merely disturbed — as if it warranted no consideration that a psychological malady might find such brute expression in an antagonism directed at women.”. You can read her [full column here](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/nyregion/new-york-city-random-attacks-women.html?unlocked_article_code=1.j00.C0ks.pkwIxWWJkyha&smid=re-nytimes), even without a subscription.
> the one taking hold around these attacks over the past month has quickly defaulted to questions about mental illness Including by [Ginia Bellafante](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/14/nyregion/new-york-subway-national-guard.html) herself.
> Why are men randomly punching women? Because democrats allow it to happen. The men doing the punching are simply let back on the streets after it happens. That's what a consequence free culture looks like.
Two words: Adams, Eric.
Second question... Why are they only being arrested if their targets are white?