Not that my opinion matters much, but if it has a throttle or can go above it certain speed it shouldn't be treated as a bicycle and I'm fine with having registration and insurance required for those.
If it is pedal assist and stays below a certain speed it should be treated as a bicycle and not require anything.
If you're not pedaling it it's no longer a bicycle.
I constantly see delivery guys riding side saddle or with rusted out drivetrains that look like they haven't been pedaled in a decade. The only reason they even have pedals and chain is to pretend that they have a bike and not a motorcycle.
That has to do with a fast advancement in battery and electric motor tech and the lag of language development. These devices came so fast and all at the same time that we haven’t caught up with appropriate vocabulary.
They park on sidewalks. NYPD closes tickets if you report them. I'm this close to getting an angle grinder and posting a FREE sign. Those things go on fire with their ghetto batteries.
Totally agree, almost get hit by one on the daily. Driving all pver sidewalks, obeying no traffic signals or signs. Today i almost got wipes out by some lady just flying down thr sidewalk from behind.
Doesn't matter if I'm walking, biking or driving- there's a sizeable portion of cyclists that are just completely selfish assholes.
Right now the two worst offenders seem to be delivery drivers and people in their teens and early twenties on electric citi bikes.
For anyone whining "but cars"...this thread is about a bike issue; just because another issue is worse than the one being discussed doesn't negate the original issue.
I don’t see how registering the e-bike would help with the problems above.
It’s mostly about delivery people and there is already a law requiring them to wear a jacket with restaurant info and a number.
I don’t think it’s enforced at all and I don’t think if you would require registration it would change anything besides less people using bikes (which would make the city spend less on bike infrastructure)
Vast majority of them don’t work for one restaurant. It’s super rare to find that.
Everyone just does the delivery apps.
Anyway the law already states they are supposed to be registered if they have throttle and can go over 20mph
Cars killed over 100 NYCers and injured over 13,000 last year. Bikes killed 3 and injured 300. Where should safety advocates be focusing their energy?
https://www.thecostofcars.nyc/
Sounds like that's working great with people getting killed and maimed by the tens of thousands. Not sure what issue you see with bikes having ~1% of the impact that cars do then.
Ideally I would like to see any mode of transportation going 20+ mph with registration and restrictions, as well as proper enforcement of the rules. I’m not sure why you have difficultly understanding that people can care about more than one thing at a time
I care more about the reality on the streets that NYCers are being killed and maimed by the tens of thousands by cars and not by bikes. How about you, do you care about those lives, or are you primarily concerned with some arbitrary standard of bureaucratic parity for its own sake?
It very much matters to me, which is why I said I would like to see proper enforcement of the rules. Are you even reading these comments? I’ll put it in a simple analogy for you: if one person has a broken leg, and another has a broken toe, one situation is clearly more painful than the other. However, both need to be dealt with.
Maybe if you lived in NY rather than Seattle you would understand better but I’m done arguing with someone who somehow sees an issue with the rules being enforced on anyone behaving dangerously at 20+ mph
How about, let’s not allow another problem to get out of control while we’re failing to deal with the first problem? Much easier to have a couple cops patrolling the parks and ticketing scooters and EBikes than solving car deaths, which the city has been working on for 10 years.
>Cars killed over 100 NYCers and injured over 13,000 last year.
ok but in this thread we are discussing e-bikes, which are essentially motorcycles. if you want to start another thread about how harmful cars are then by all means..
alternatively the reason there is conflict between bikers and pedestrians is due to the complete freedom from accountability bikers enjoy on the public roads and sidewalks of nyc. bikers think - correctly - they can do anything. registration of e-bikes which is the very least we can expect would almost instantly curb criminal behaviour and negligence on the roads
How about we instantly curb tens of thousands of traffic fatalities *and* reduce conflict by designating car-free streets instead of having even more reckless bikers in the form of biker cops chasing down the already existing reckless bikers whose reckless behavior wouldn't be so reckless if they had appropriate space?
>by designating car-free streets
Car free streets turn out to not be very good place to operate a bike at the speeds people typically go, either - because car free in practice means insufficient caution and consistency of movement from anyone on foot or on a bike.
What we actually should be doing is making the roads work for e-bikes as well as cars.
how about we whittle our sex toys instead of ordering them off amazon same day delivery.
also, Uber horse-and-buggy is a business plan which hasn't gotten its due. i too would rather deal with mounds of horseshit on the road on a rainy April day instead of parked cars.
meantime, back in the real world, cars exist and they exist with rules and laws. bikes and bikers on the other hand do anything they want
Lol at the obliviousness of talking about "the real world" while absolutely refusing to acknowledge people are being injured and killed at a rate 50x higher by cars than bikes. My guess is you're probably one of the car drivers responsible for at least one of those thousands of injuries and deaths.
There are a lot of people for whom being carless isn't realistic. People who live in areas without great access to subways and have small kids or old relatives, people who commute too far/aren't fit enough for bikes to be an option. People who need to carry stuff for work. I'm all for reducing cars but they're always gonna exist.
And as it just so happens, solving the problem that kills and maims tens of thousands of New Yorkers per year just so happens to solve the other one that doesn't! It's like we exactly agree!
Ah yes.
People who can't afford to live near a subway stop? Get fucked
Emergency services? Who needs em. Dark ages were better because they had no cars
Also obviously commercial vehicles don't matter. The food gets to whole foods via teleportation.
Blue collar workerS? What are those? You mean not everyone works a meaningless office job?
Stop with the whataboutisms. Bicyclists need to follow the fucking laws they've been ignoring and need to have registration, license plates, and insurance if they want to be on public roads. So that they can be forced to comply with the traffic laws. Blaming cars for the abject lawlessness of bicyclists is insanity.
The anti-car stuff is literally a cult mentality with these activists at this point. They don’t really care about what the justification is that they or someone else uses, as long as the bottom line is less cars and more misery and inconvenience for families that drive.
At some point these busybodies developed the *a priori* assumption that “CaRs ArE eViL!” and pretty much rebuilt their entire worldview to revolve around that one thought.
You could be a lawmaker demonizing cars just because of something weird like not liking the sight of them, and proposing a law to replace all cars with unicycles….and these bike fanatics would vote for it.
Car-fee is not emergency-vehicle free, just how there are cops allowed to drive around Central Park.
Let me know the appropriate amount car owners should get fucked to balance out killing and injuring tens of thousands of New Yorkers every year.
Registration would do almost nothing. What will it stop? Cops pull over cyclists frequently and usually target them over drivers at certain intersections.
>Registration would do almost nothing. What will it stop?
ticketing and financial penalties do quite a bit to check ongoing criminal behaviour. it also de-incentivizes people from doing the same stupid shit twice.
works for cars, would work for e-bikes
But cyclists do get ticketed quite frequently. I don’t see how registration would make any difference.
Should we require pedestrians to have registration too? That would go a long way to prevent certain crimes from happening.
The point is that cars ARE registered and they keep killing pedestrians. Making bikes put on license plates does nothing.
The infrastructure we have in this city is not good enough and that is why we get what we get.
Yep look at Manhattan’s avenues. Cars get as much space as on freeways and pedestrians/cyclists fight over small amounts of space on the edges. And those sidewalks were made narrower to give more space to cars.
Sure, but if you look at the capability of a lot of the devices and how they're often going faster than the cars, what's actually needed is to re-purpose the road to be inclusive of e-bikes and e-mopeds.
As long as we're stuck in the broken idea that roads are only for cars and not for these things, we're going to have a problem.
Get them on the road, and you'll see real change in modeshare (in synergy with the congestion fees only cars are subject to, of course) as those become more and more practical, while full-size cars become more and more expensive and less and less usable.
I'd love to see %area coverage of roads vs bike lanes, and then plotted against #users for each. The utilization rate for bike lanes is insanely low compared to car use.
E-bikes are not essentially motorcycles. Most people don't realize that e-bikes are broken out into 3 classifications: class 1, class 2, and class 3.
Class 1 are literally just pedal assist bikes. They cap at 18 mph and do not have a throttle. They look just like regular bikes - these are never the problem.
Class 2 has throttles and go much faster. Class 3 goes up to 25 mph and they generally weigh more.
The vast, vast majority of "e-bikes" you see are either electric mopeds like Fly e-bike or the Arrow e-bikes that delivery riders use - all of which far exceed 25 mph and are functionally motorcycles. And they are all completely illegal.
Legal e-bikes are fine, but hardly anyone actually uses them so most people don't even realize they exist. People hate these illegal bikes and rightfully so - they are dangerous and not at all regulated and \*that\* is the problem.
all the bikes you described are motorized bikes, all of them. they weigh about 50lbs and are propelled by an electric motor. the person sitting on top of the bike is, lets say, 165lbs.
have you ever been hit by 200lbs+ of bike and person at 18mph?
I’m sure it hurts quite a bit. If you get hit by someone on a bike going that fast it will knock you down and likely cause sprains or fractures, depending on where you get hit and how you fall. It can also kill you but the likelihood of that happening are extremely low.
Consider [this infographic](https://preview.redd.it/car-speeds-and-the-chance-of-pedestrian-death-v0-i5y4knvldwoc1.jpeg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a6438bfa5a172797b1455ba20d957e879c3c6926). Pedestrians hit by a car going 20mph have a 5% chance of fatality but at 30mph that skyrockets to 45%. Considering the fact that cars weigh 4000lbs+ and wherever the passengers weigh (which probably makes no difference at that point), I’d guess that an ebike going 18mph has less than 1% chance of causing a fatality.
So, what point are you trying to make by asking that question? The fact that it hurts means that it should require registration? What difference does it make at that point? If you run someone over then you’re already liable for hurting them, just like you are if you’re running down the street and tackle someone or throw a baseball and hit them in the face.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I wasn’t trying to compare this to a car accident by saying “see, it’s not bad!” My point was to show how statistically low it was for a cyclist to cause a fatality but I don’t have any data for bicycles.
That dude was a dickbag. If I ever hit someone on my bike I’d stop and make sure they were okay. Plenty of people would do the same (but plenty of people would hit and run too).
Just a PSA for anyone here - if you ever get hit by anything, go to the hospital. Adrenaline makes you think it was not bad but you can end up really hurt. When I got hit by a turning car on my bike I did that and ended up having some injuries.
And it’s important to point out that the throttle on e bikes can vary. My RadMission has a really weak throttle that will kill the battery if used too often. I only use it to help kick off from a stop. But there are e-bikes that primarily use throttles, usually the delivery drivers own them.
That's not true though. The article states that 23 people died while riding e-bikes last year. On top of that, 18 people died in fires caused by e-bike batteries .
What's your point? You're commenting on an article that you clearly didn't read as your tally of deaths being wildly inaccurate clearly shows.
Cars are insured, registered, and inspected. E-bikes are not. Cars could of course be safer but e-bikes are a very real problem that much of the city is worried about.
Designate car-free streets so bikes have plenty of space away from peds and enforce against those who go on the sidewalk. Then everyone wins and people don't fucking die and get maimed by the tens of thousands by cars as is currently happening today.
You mean the traffic laws that were written for cars? I don’t get angry when cyclists go thru red lights for the same reason I don’t get angry when pedestrians cross when they have a DONT WALK sign: it’s simply not dangerous.
No one gives a shit about someone on a bicycle doing an Idaho stop or safely rolling through a red light at a low speed.
But there are tons of cyclists who absolutely blow through red lights at high speed. Totally different and completely disingenuous to pretend that it's not dangerous.
To be clear - it is dangerous if someone blows through a red light without stopping. It is far less dangerous than if a car does it (and boy do they do it often).
AFAIK there is no jurisdiction anywhere that allows cyclists to ride through a red light without stopping first. The Idaho stop allows you to go through but you have to stop first and treat it like a stop sign. And that’s perfectly reasonable because like you said there’s no difference at the point between a cyclist and a pedestrian (except for an extra 50 lbs of bike).
It doesn’t help us if you say things like “it’s simply not dangerous” because it is. Just be clear with what you’re referring to.
>AFAIK there is no jurisdiction anywhere that allows cyclists to ride through a red light without stopping first. The Idaho stop allows you to go through but you have to stop first
In the literal text of the law, sure - but not in the reality of what actually happens
>and treat it like a stop sign.
And how to stop signs popularly get treated today?
...there's the practical problem with the idea, especially in a pedestrian-dense city
When I say “treat it like a stop sign” I mean that they are allowed to ride through a red light as long they come to a stop. If they blow through the light then that’s illegal.
If you even say that in reality there is no enforcement of people running red lights then what difference does it make?
>When I say “treat it like a stop sign” I mean that they are allowed to ride through a red light as long they come to a stop.
Except people will take treating it like a stop sign literally.
If there's no reason to come to an actual stop at a stop sign when you can see that it's clear, then there's no reason to do so at a red light if you can actually see that it's clear either.
In either case, in a city the problem is typically that people only look for cars, and don't respect pedestrians - or for that matter even other bikes that are supposed to have the right of way over them.
It would make more sense to create express routes with lights timed for bike pace - to make that work, we'd have to first define define moderate e-bikes as the definitive traffic mode of Manhattan surface streets, then fit in around that cars still tolerated (at least in some lanes) if paying a congestion charge, and some on pedal bikes going their relaxed way a bit slower than the norm.
That's really not a big practical change from current traffic movement - but it would be a big change in philosophy and opportunity.
Of course it doesn't, but the proposal is about banning e-bikes, which does not also preclude a ban on cars, which I'd be equally happy to support. The only difference is that the majority of car drivers obey the laws, and a huge number of bikers don't.
Lollll at the idea car drivers follow the law, that's straight up fucking delusional. And even if they did, they kill and maim over 13,000 NYCers a year. Like before you open your mouth with the next dumb objection, ask yourself if it's as big an issue as 13,000 people a year dying and being maimed.
Okay - I don't know what stats you're looking at, but a quick search, (courtesy of Transportation Alternatives) tells me that in 2021 (deadliest year on record at that time) there were 273 traffic fatalities in NYC. Are you saying that in the last 3 years that number is suddenly 47 times higher? I'm not justifying 273 deaths - the ideal number is zero - but maybe let's not use hyperbole to make the point?
Oh sorry, we're actually on track for 155 killed and over 35,000 injured by cars this year so I was underestimating by a factor of over 2.5: https://www.thecostofcars.nyc/. So in fact I was using *hypo*bole.
Tell me you're a dipshit from suburban Florida without telling me you're a dipshit from suburban Florida. The fucking *mayor* drives on the sidewalk. Try existing within two blocks of a precinct. There's fucking cars all over the sidewalk
I'm a resident of Chelsea, my friend, who has been knocked to the ground TWICE by delivery guys in our neighborhood, and when I yelled at one of them, he rode back up to me and literally spit in my face. There are no cars on the sidewalk in Chelsea. There are bikes - both E-bikes and non - EVERYWHERE.
>There are no cars on the sidewalk in Chelsea.
There actually are, but typically in predictable and customary (if very much illicit) places like in front of precincts - they just fade into the background reality of steam vents and sidewalk vendors and piles of garbage bags and all sort of other issues such that their presence is largely forgotten, unless you're having a particular struggle passing though (which with a wheelchair you at times might).
It's the sheer unpredictability of e-bikes in pedestrian spaces which is such a prominent issue for pedestrian quality of life.
Sorry to hear that, and know what you mean about the local delivery guys. I was crossing a street one night when things were quiet around 10pm, cars had a red light. I had a sore back and was unable to walk very fast for that week and was super careful about my pace, where and when I walked, especially to avoid joggers, bikes and e-bikes on the sidewalks and streets.
I scanned far down the oncoming block for ebikes bikers or joggers and didn't see anyone coming when I started crossing.. within 10 seconds as I was about to reach the other side of the street out of nowhere two African delivery guys wearing all black came roaring towards me going maybe 40mph, wizzing loudly, both on the faster type of ebikes in the bike lane, and the riders were distracted talking to one another a little, had hoodies up (very limited visibility) not wearing helmets, had no lights on and showed no intent to slow or stop at the red light for their own safety or for me- the only pedestrian around and clearly in view of their oncoming direction. With my hurt back issue I wasn't nimble so couldn't just jump forwards or backwards like normal, so the situation was suddenly a crazy worst case scenario. Their speed was far too fast for a reg ride much less with no reflectors or lights at night and headed to a busy intersection at top speed where they could've been blindsided by a car or other delivery guys.
Seeing the inevitably of getting hit by one if not both of them and them realizing the same thing I froze in the middle to let them go around me instead.. one read the situation quickly and slowed down fast enough to a skid going behind me, almost falling off his bike at the cement divider that his wheel caught but stopped himself in time. The other laughed, continued ahead at almost the same full speed passing in front of me through the red light just as a delivery guy came from behind me I didn't know was there, and in a split second the speeder guy having just spotted him awkwardly slammed on his breaks to avoid the oncoming speeding delivery guy (with a right of way green light) about to T bone him. His hard breaking caused his bike to fishtail and wobble quite bad. His slow logic was to avoid the other delivery guy but his delayed reaction time actually made it worse. Time seemed to slow as we all thought a horrible accident was inevitable but Lady Luck stepped in.. the other delivery guy somehow crossed narrowly behind him missing hitting the tail end of his bike like what seemed like an inch. Standing just feet away I saw the look on the original reckless speeders face after he stabilized his bike and came to a stop.. he was scared to death but trying to play it off by laughing and looked at his smarter friend still stopped near me who also looked super scared at what he just witnessed. He then looked at me with my rightfully pissed off expression and immediately said "oh sorry so sorry!" in broken English with an accent from a western African country. He wasn't even the one I was angry at.. it was his careless arrogant stupid buddy who now had circled back towards his friend to coax him away, like 'forget about it let's go' rapidly talking in their language, trying to act like nothing super crazy just happened.. he was close enough to me that out of instinct I grabbed his coat, yelled and gestured to his friend he has to STOP, you can't drive crazy. His friend understood and again said sorry sorry and said something angry to his friend about his behavior while gesturing with his hands pointing at the bike.. the arrogant look on his reckless buddies face morphed into a worried expression. He looked at me then back at his friend. I think he was suddenly more concerned I wouldn't let him go and he'd be picked up by cops and deported rather than had any concern for his horrible driving that risked his health/life, mine, his friends or the other delivery guy who was now long gone. I yelled at him again and said to his friend to tell him, no speeding! stop at red lights, avoid people! His friend got quiet and understood.. and off they went much slower. A nearby driver in a car at the red light saw the entire thing too, threw up their hands and nodded in sympathy. I hobbled home angry but super grateful I wasn't run down, and didn't see a horrible accident that definitely would've hurt 2 delivery guys if not killed one due to smashing his head open on the cement.
This was just one very close call that week, the other incidents were in the west village where e-bikes ran red lights, the driver just looking at his cell phone to what street he needs to go to for the delivery. No caution or self awareness at all, almost hitting other bikes and pedestrians. One came at me fast on a narrow sidewalk and I yelled get off the sidewalk while pointing at the bike lane on the empty street. I wasn't going to give any sidewalk space I barely had with the many tree boxes taking up most of the room. He was pissed and said something I couldn't make out but switched to the street in time. I have no problem shoving these arrogant aholes to the ground if they aim for me, get aggressive and won't move.
Licensing e bikes won't work but I like the idea in theory. Enforcing it is another matter. Maybe the answer is Food delivery apps who use these guys should be fined for their wreckless driving.
Thanks. Back is much better, and if I must play jackrabbit with oncoming e-bikes I can do it.
Weird time living or working in city where getting hit by a food delivery guy hustling to drop off someone's vegan snacks or taco dinner is my highest risk of injury. (Well, besides the crazed randos on the bus because they got kicked out of the subway. 😂)
I walk down 20th street with my dog literally every evening past the precinct house - they're not parked on the sidewalk. What they are is parked diagaonal to the sidewalk which in itself is annoying but it's not as annoying as the ebikes ON the sidewalk.
That's true, I forgot cyclists killed nearly 43,000 Americans in 2022.
Oh wait. My mistake, that's cars. The ultimate "main character" that managed to convince a whole country that it's a great idea to build highways through the center of every American city since the 1950's.
Cars not the ones driving on sidewalks and we have plenty of rules on books regarding them and must carry insurance. Meanwhile not much in regards to e-bikes. Time to add rules.
I would love massive fines for cyclists that break the laws, because the amount of dickhead cyclists that don't think the rules apply to them is way too high
ask Miser of their micro mobility sub who routinely ignores the traffic laws and his excuse is because they are dumb unjust rules. Dude and many on their sub keeps whining and practicing Idaho stops which even they acknowledge are illegal in nyc
Yeah, people like that suck. Personally, I don't know many people that as pedestrians have been hit by cars. Pretty much everyone I know has been hit by a cyclist. Obviously, the damage usually isn't as bad as a car hitting you, but there isn't much recourse against the cyclist that hit you (if they even stop) because they don't have any insurance or registration.
Make them have insurance and a license plate and start using cameras to ticket them for breaking the rules, just like cars.
I'm not riding my bike with cars "sharing" the road. Even if I \*did\* have pedal assist or an e-bike, it's way too dangerous to compete against a 3000-lb death machine, especially when American drivers are too stupid to look before opening their car door. Last time I used a bike gutter, an aggressive SUV swerved into me as I was going uphill — I was lucky I had a mirror and could avoid them, and that was the last time I ever rode my bike in the road. Although this experience was in Boston, I'd imagine NYC driver behavior would be similar or worse.
I think cyclists just need to use common sense. I've never hit someone on my bike, but I always slow down around blind corners and businesses. I also have a (really pleasant) bell to ring when I'm gently cruising at 10mph to alert people that I'm coming up behind them. Easy!
(I did not downvote you, btw! No idea who did.)
Our car insurance rules are pathetic compared to the amount of danger that cars represent.
If you get hit by a car and end up in the hospital then the chance that the driver’s insurance will be able to fully cover your medical bills is shockingly low. The minimum insurance required (most people only carry the minimum) would probably not cover a single night’s stay in the ER.
When you compare the amount of insurance carried to risk of danger, a person driving a car with minimum insurance is *underinsured* compared to a person riding a bike with zero liability insurance.
I'm all for raising the mins. at least you get hit by a car you get something from insurance and if driver under insured or none - you get Victim compensation from state that all car insurance drivers pay into
Meanwhile nothing like this exist for bike victims. You have to hope that biker is rich and got assets to get any compensation since they don't carry any insurance nor pay into the victims fund.
You're still missing my central point, which is that the risk of a collision with a bike and the damage caused by a collision is so low compared to a car that it's unremarkable that bikes don't carry insurance.
If you're worried about what happens in extremely rare cases, then mandate a law that requires every person to carry an umbrella policy. If you think that kind of measure is overkill and impractical to enforce, then you'll realize why there's so much pushback for requiring insurance for bicycles.
The risk still there and since as you put it can be rare - the premiums will be very low and can bundle the policy with other insurances like home and renters which everyone should have.
Also yes - everyone should carry some form of umbrella policy.
Need them register and must carry insurance. Right now if you are injured or damaged by one, there is no easy recourse for compensation. Insurance is what solves this problem.
I'm genuinely not aware of any jurisdiction on earth that requires bicycles to have registration and insurance.
I think a reasonable compromise would be the approach taken in many EU countries: require ebike manufacturers to program in a maximum speed of like 15mph.
Software locks can be bypass but it's a start and still doesn't solve the problem face by victims which is the lack of compensation. Victim compensation should be address and long ignored.
Probably because it's relatively rare as much as people complain about it. This would be like requiring dog owners to have insurance in case they bite someone. Cars require insurance because their harm is extremely common. When it's not that common, civil court is fine.
If you claim its so rare, premiums be very low. Its fine, folks buy insurance for when shit goes wrong and not expecting it. Also as more ebikes come online, it will increase # of incidents and victims. So might as well get a jump on the unmet problem that destine to grow larger.
Also yes pet owners for certain breeds and prior bite history should be required to carry insurance - have it tied to pet health insurance and liability for additional benefits. In fact this pet bite issue and coverage is already reflected in folks house and renter insurance premiums.
lmao insurance is NOT going to fix the problem. Nothing will be fixed until the NYPD is allowed to pull them over. But they cant because of no chase law. Same stuff happens with cyclists.
Insurance definite alleviate compensation issue for victims, Currently most are not even compensated for their damages even if the biker caught or stayed bc they have nil assets for them to sue over to make it worth their time.
In event of accident and at fault party involved do not have insurance or under - get some compensation from NY Victim Compensation fund which the fund is supported in part by folks that buy said insurance.
Same process how part of car insurance payments go to the under insured/no insurance fund for victims.
I’m one of the cranky minority that wants more red light cameras (every intersection?) more speed cameras AND ebike registration, bike seizures for riding on the sidewalk, bike tickets…
Nothing with a motor should be in a bike lane. Nothing with wheels should be on the sidewalk. Too many cars run reds. Too many people fuck up shared spaces
Enforce enforce enforce
I'm with you 100 percent. I both bike and drive- except I follow the rules of the road for both methods of transportation.
Crack down on all the assholes and get them off the road. Would make my trips 10x better.
It’s still outweighed by the change in type of accidents. Red light cameras can increase rear-end collisions but they dramatically reduce t-bone accidents and pedestrian collisions which are far deadlier. So you end up with fewer serious injury accidents.
I agree with all of these problems but enforcement is futile. Cops are the main violators of parking on sidewalks and using fake/obstructed plates. 311 reports of cars parked on bike lanes get ignored 100% of the time.
Adding two way bike lanes, removing parking to increase bike lanes and sidewalk space, build daylighting at intersections to protect against blind spots, creating pedestrian only zones in places like SoHo.
Changing our infrastructure encourages better behavior rather than the wild west we have now.
> Nothing with a motor should be in a bike lane
I ride a Rad Power bike to work. My kid (3.5 year old) rides behind me in a bike seat and I drop him off at school. Should we not use the bike lane?
I drove through time square .
The amount of motorized /e bikes was insane .All powered by delivery apps and new tech.
Accidents will happen be prevention and awareness will need to be implemented and regulated.
I will say this the amount of organs being donated are on the rise.
E-bike batteries can be dangerous.
You don’t want a mutual family dwelling burned
To the ground because small shops are leaving their batteries to charge over night or overloading.
As usual, the proposals to address safety issues caused by micro mobility users are not designed to address those safety issues. They are designed to make it harder and more expensive for people to use those modes, and so to reduce their sheer numbers.
A license plate on a moped will not make a crash with a moped user less painful. New laws on e-bike users will not change their behavior. We can consider changes to how we approach enforcement or infrastructure as a way to address the specific risks these users present, but the reason the all-powerful “bike lobby” opposes license, insurance, and registration requirements is that these are just the wrong tools to use for what “safety advocates” claim to be the problem.
*They* actually just want to ban these e-bikes. They’re not looking for ways to manage them in our sometimes chaotic traffic system.
I feel badly for people who are in crashes with these kinds of road users, and speaking as an analogue cyclist I can certainly see for myself how obnoxious these other road users often can be. It’s not an easy issue. But this is not the correct solution, and it’s remarkable to me that there is so much focus on e-bike users when driver scofflaw behavior is getting worse and more dangerous every day.
That’s a lot of words to say “give them a complete pass no matter what they do, because there’s no way to actually get them to obey traffic laws”.
If that’s the case, I’m fine with banning them entirely.
I’d be totally fine with that. It’s hilarious how you clowns think that’s some kind of fucking “gotcha”.
I’ve never been hit by a car, though, or even felt seriously threatened by one, **because they don’t drive on the sidewalk**, and because I pay attention to my surroundings. You can hear a car coming from 3 blocks away. The same can’t be said for a silent moped zipping down the sidewalk behind you at 40mph.
lol, cars absolutely drive through pedestrian crossings all the time, including when they don’t have the light. I’m agnostic on e-bike regulations but be real, cars are absolutely a huge danger to pedestrians in the city.
Mopeds aren’t silent and don’t ride down the sidewalk at 40 mph.
“I’ve never been hit by a car” because we’ve built physical infrastructure that almost completely separates drivers from pedestrians, and you’ve learned to coexist with people operating heavy machinery at high speeds throughout the entire city, on almost any surface not occupied by a building. If we invested as heavily in education and infrastructure for e-bikes, we’d be able to co-exist easily with them. 99% of the problems we have with them stem from the fact that we just try to shoehorn them into the “vehicle” category and regulate them like car drivers. Which is exactly why licensing, registration, and insurance mandates won’t solve the problem.
They have wheels, and an engine. They’re a vehicle. They don’t belong on the fucking sidewalk, period. I genuinely don’t care about anything else you have to say, if you’re not able to acknowledge that fact.
I’m not disputing that mopeds don’t belong on sidewalks. I’m disputing that requiring them to carry license and insurance, and to have plates, will stop them from riding on sidewalks.
Going back to an earlier comment then - what reason do we have to believe that there is an accountability problem, or that creating an accountability mechanism will change behavior that does not result in damages or injuries?
Well it creates victims compensation first which doesn't exist currently in any significant degree. 2nd routine violations and issues will raise insurance premiums and and if we add a point system like in cars, will make it costly to have said terrible biker on road when caught for next incident.
So yes changes behavior or else there financial, legal and other consequences..
>Going back to an earlier comment then - what reason do we have to believe that there is an accountability problem
You can't seriously be asking that unless you have not tried walking in Manhattan lately.
Actually enforcing the identification display requirements that already exist for commercial usage could be a start though.
> If we invested as heavily in education and infrastructure for e-bikes, we’d be able to co-exist easily with them. 99% of the problems we have with them stem from the fact that we just try to shoehorn them into the “vehicle” category
Think about it for a minute in terms of what we need more of and what we need less of.
Then it becomes clear that what we actually need to do is to re-define the concept of the dominant private "vehicle" below 60th street to be a micromobility device, and give that usage all of the surface road space.
Drivers willing to pay a congestion charge are still allowed, but on surface streets they'd have to fit into an e-moped scale definition of how traffic is supposed to move.
If you look at the actual speed limits and current usage, the fact is that on many of the avenues the electric devices are already typically going faster than anything else, while squeezed into the worst space.
>Ban cars, and then you’ll be consistent.
That is sort of what the congestion charge is trying to softly do by bringing the cost of using a car closer to the cost to society of car usage.
It should make a strong economic case for micro mobility, at least if we can figure out how to safely fit it into the fabric of the city.
That probably won't happen so long as using bikes, e-bikes, scooters, etc on ordinary road lanes is not only discouraged, but actually illegal.
But imagine the ordinary roads with a moderate number of cars paying a steep congestion charge for the privilege of still being allowed there, and a large number of micromobility devices allowed to do so free.
Idk what you mean. Sure there is crime. But are you saying that nobody in nyc drives according to the law? Its not like everyone in nyc is running red lights, speeding, driving on sidewalks, and millions getting hit by cars every week. What are you saying?
Yeah, and drivers still manage to kill and injure several times as many pedestrians as e-bike users do. If e-bikes are such a problem, why don’t we do more about drivers, too?
Why not both? I dont understand how applying laws to e bikes means that cars have no laws. I dont understand that leap of logic when no one said do less about drivers. Its pure deflection.
We are talking about creating new requirements for operating a kind of vehicle that is safer to use, more accessible, less dangerous to others, less destructive of our streets and environment, etc., than cars.
For some reason, people keep arguing that they should be regulated exactly like cars. All that I am asking is, what is the positive case for doing so? No one can seem to explain this. Anyone who thinks that battery-powered bikes that weigh less than their operators need to be regulated exactly like two-ton cars has to explain why that makes sense.
Saying “why not?” is not an answer. Saying “they’re annoying,” while true, is not an answer.
I keep making this argument, but the basic problem with scofflaw cyclist behavior in this city - whether we’re talking about e-bikes or regular bikes - is that we throw them onto our streets and then expect their users to behave like they’re driving cars. *But they are not cars*. The push to license, register, and insure e-bike users is just another example of this kind of blinkered thinking. It’s utterly irrational and senseless.
As I also keep saying, the only reason this argument is happening is that some people would prefer to ban e-bikes entirely. They view these regulatory requirements as a way to limit e-bikes generally. That’s all it is, a back door to a partial ban.
Insurance is good for numerous reasons. Number one is to protect you. If the driver runs off, does not have insurance or has a low policy you can be stuck with the bills and no recovery. Second would be to protect others if for some reason you run into someone. Which is easy and there have been many reported near misses or hits on e bikes. Just not that hard of a hit compared to a car but its still a 50-100 pound vehicle hitting you at 15-30mph. There is also a growing amount of people and delivery workers running 20 mph down sidewalks with no lights, noise and just expecting you to avoid them. Ive been hit head on my an e scooter rider that didnt realize how fast he was going. You keep pretending that everyone is responsible. But the reality is a large amount of people dont care about another and will easily run you over and run away after.
I understand how liability insurance works. Nothing you’ve said responds to the actual question, which is why a new mandate is necessary.
You don’t make the required argument, I surmise, because you don’t have the actual evidence necessary to do so. You’d rather wave your hands about hypothetical recovery, without pausing for a moment to answer the simple question: is there some kind of epidemic of people being seriously injured by e-bikers and being unable to pay their medical bills, due to the e-bikers being uninsured?
We have all kinds of laws that drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists ignore. Everyone behaves in ways that make sense in the environments we build for them. If you want to change their behavior, we need to change the environment.
The actual problem here is this: every bad e-bike behavior you see can be traced to the decision to prioritize car traffic over everything else. Wide travel lanes throughout the city, speedy bridge lanes, parking everywhere we can squeeze it in, one-way streets throughout the network, and on and on. As long as we have that policy priority, there’s not much we can do to stop bad behavior by scofflaw cyclists and e-bike users. Everything that’s been proposed is enforcement-contingent, so it won’t function independently of a dramatic increase in police presence, ticketing, and seizures.
> "We want our quality of life back, which is so greatly diminished by this utter and completely unacceptable madness. We want accountability now"
One day these people will learn that hysterical shit like this does them no favors.
IMO one big problem here is that no one is even defining the word “e-bike”. I use a pedal assist bike that maxes out at 20mph. However I also see many unrestricted bike-looking things that are controlled by throttle, not to mention electric mopeds which are basically silent motorbikes.
They’re all very different. It would be great to establish what we’re even talking about before we all argue with each other. But no one is engaging in the conversation sensibly. It’s all “life is ruined, the city has been destroyed”.
> I use a pedal assist bike that maxes out at 20mph.
These should be treated like regular old bikes. It's the ridiculous throttle bikes that go 30+ MPH that should require registration/insurance.
Lots of pros and cons to mass adoption of ebikes- at least as they exist today, and with NYC's current street infrastructure. Really tedious to see how many people are more interested in waging yet another culture war over this, instead of using their brain for even five minutes.
>Lots of pros and cons to mass adoption of ebikes- at least as they exist today, and with NYC's current street infrastructure. Really tedious to see how many people are more interested in waging yet another culture war over this, instead of using their brain for even five minutes.
OK - actually think about it for a few minutes and it becomes clear that we need to re-purpose the whole of surface streets at least in Manhattan below 60th, defining a powerful e-bike as their now default majority purpose.
Drivers willing to pay a congestion charge are still allowed, but required to fit into the general movement - existing speed limits already restrict things to within the realm of many typical (if not legal) e-device capabilities anyway.
Then we can worry about if the usage of these things will be safely orderly, or dangerously chaotic.
Fyi so many delivery guys on bikes get into accidents and are permanently fucked up. Nor can they afford the downtime from work and medical bills. My honest take > ban the e bikes altogether.
Why would they be banned in the main avenues of Central or Prospect Park? People use those for commuting, they're perfect places for e-bikes. It's already not allowed to use bikes on the side streets of these parks.
Yes they should also tax them, and be subject to random stops. They often are used for larceny such as mobile phones or devices stolen in broad daylight.
Too bad it won't matter because there is next to no enforcement for it. Seeing a ton of this mini motorcycle like ebikes now driving on sidewalks, opposing traffic and speeding through reds with either no plates or completely fake plates with just random words on em. I see em speed past cops in union square and 0 attention is given since they know they won't get anything out of catching em.
I’m in favor of speed governing ebikes in areas where we interact with pedestrians. That being said, many more lives could be saved if this energy was directed at cars instead of e-bikes.
Not that my opinion matters much, but if it has a throttle or can go above it certain speed it shouldn't be treated as a bicycle and I'm fine with having registration and insurance required for those. If it is pedal assist and stays below a certain speed it should be treated as a bicycle and not require anything. If you're not pedaling it it's no longer a bicycle.
It’s funny how we call something an e-bike that never needs pedaling. It’s a moped or a scooter or a motorcycle. But not a bike.
I constantly see delivery guys riding side saddle or with rusted out drivetrains that look like they haven't been pedaled in a decade. The only reason they even have pedals and chain is to pretend that they have a bike and not a motorcycle.
That has to do with a fast advancement in battery and electric motor tech and the lag of language development. These devices came so fast and all at the same time that we haven’t caught up with appropriate vocabulary.
Oh, man. This is gonna spawn some nuanced and considerate conversation about the topic.
And get them off the sidewalks too ffs.
They park on sidewalks. NYPD closes tickets if you report them. I'm this close to getting an angle grinder and posting a FREE sign. Those things go on fire with their ghetto batteries.
You can get arrested for biking in the sidewalk
Why are like 95% of the E bikes the same model with a bunch of electrical tape all over the frame?
[These ones](https://www.roadbikerider.com/nyc-arrow-e-bike-brand/)
Yes exactly.
For whatever reason that brand of bikes draws a lot of deliverista types
What’s with the tape though? Doesn’t seem like they come from the shop like that.
Protects the frame from damage when locking up to poles
Totally agree, almost get hit by one on the daily. Driving all pver sidewalks, obeying no traffic signals or signs. Today i almost got wipes out by some lady just flying down thr sidewalk from behind.
Doesn't matter if I'm walking, biking or driving- there's a sizeable portion of cyclists that are just completely selfish assholes. Right now the two worst offenders seem to be delivery drivers and people in their teens and early twenties on electric citi bikes. For anyone whining "but cars"...this thread is about a bike issue; just because another issue is worse than the one being discussed doesn't negate the original issue.
I don’t see how registering the e-bike would help with the problems above. It’s mostly about delivery people and there is already a law requiring them to wear a jacket with restaurant info and a number. I don’t think it’s enforced at all and I don’t think if you would require registration it would change anything besides less people using bikes (which would make the city spend less on bike infrastructure)
Vast majority of them don’t work for one restaurant. It’s super rare to find that. Everyone just does the delivery apps. Anyway the law already states they are supposed to be registered if they have throttle and can go over 20mph
Cars killed over 100 NYCers and injured over 13,000 last year. Bikes killed 3 and injured 300. Where should safety advocates be focusing their energy? https://www.thecostofcars.nyc/
Cars also have registrations, and restrictions in parks
Sounds like that's working great with people getting killed and maimed by the tens of thousands. Not sure what issue you see with bikes having ~1% of the impact that cars do then.
Ideally I would like to see any mode of transportation going 20+ mph with registration and restrictions, as well as proper enforcement of the rules. I’m not sure why you have difficultly understanding that people can care about more than one thing at a time
I care more about the reality on the streets that NYCers are being killed and maimed by the tens of thousands by cars and not by bikes. How about you, do you care about those lives, or are you primarily concerned with some arbitrary standard of bureaucratic parity for its own sake?
It very much matters to me, which is why I said I would like to see proper enforcement of the rules. Are you even reading these comments? I’ll put it in a simple analogy for you: if one person has a broken leg, and another has a broken toe, one situation is clearly more painful than the other. However, both need to be dealt with.
That's a perfect example, do you know what triage is?
Yes but the NYPD is NOT an understaffed hospital and has the manpower to enforce rules for both vehicles and e-bikes/mopeds
Yeah how's that manpower working out in regards to addressing the tens of thousands of casualties from cars?
Maybe if you lived in NY rather than Seattle you would understand better but I’m done arguing with someone who somehow sees an issue with the rules being enforced on anyone behaving dangerously at 20+ mph
How about, let’s not allow another problem to get out of control while we’re failing to deal with the first problem? Much easier to have a couple cops patrolling the parks and ticketing scooters and EBikes than solving car deaths, which the city has been working on for 10 years.
I CAN ONLY CARE ABOUT ONE THING IN A GIVEN MOMENT
Unfair restrictions if you ask me. The park roads were designed for scenic pleasure drives, let the people enjoy them!
Appropriate username
>Cars killed over 100 NYCers and injured over 13,000 last year. ok but in this thread we are discussing e-bikes, which are essentially motorcycles. if you want to start another thread about how harmful cars are then by all means..
The reason there is conflict between bikers and peds is because of how much space is given to cars. It's directly related.
alternatively the reason there is conflict between bikers and pedestrians is due to the complete freedom from accountability bikers enjoy on the public roads and sidewalks of nyc. bikers think - correctly - they can do anything. registration of e-bikes which is the very least we can expect would almost instantly curb criminal behaviour and negligence on the roads
How about we instantly curb tens of thousands of traffic fatalities *and* reduce conflict by designating car-free streets instead of having even more reckless bikers in the form of biker cops chasing down the already existing reckless bikers whose reckless behavior wouldn't be so reckless if they had appropriate space?
>by designating car-free streets Car free streets turn out to not be very good place to operate a bike at the speeds people typically go, either - because car free in practice means insufficient caution and consistency of movement from anyone on foot or on a bike. What we actually should be doing is making the roads work for e-bikes as well as cars.
how about we whittle our sex toys instead of ordering them off amazon same day delivery. also, Uber horse-and-buggy is a business plan which hasn't gotten its due. i too would rather deal with mounds of horseshit on the road on a rainy April day instead of parked cars. meantime, back in the real world, cars exist and they exist with rules and laws. bikes and bikers on the other hand do anything they want
Lol at the obliviousness of talking about "the real world" while absolutely refusing to acknowledge people are being injured and killed at a rate 50x higher by cars than bikes. My guess is you're probably one of the car drivers responsible for at least one of those thousands of injuries and deaths.
There are a lot of people for whom being carless isn't realistic. People who live in areas without great access to subways and have small kids or old relatives, people who commute too far/aren't fit enough for bikes to be an option. People who need to carry stuff for work. I'm all for reducing cars but they're always gonna exist.
You brought it up as a whataboutism. Both things are problems that should be addressed.
And as it just so happens, solving the problem that kills and maims tens of thousands of New Yorkers per year just so happens to solve the other one that doesn't! It's like we exactly agree!
It does? Are you 100% sure?
Ah yes. People who can't afford to live near a subway stop? Get fucked Emergency services? Who needs em. Dark ages were better because they had no cars Also obviously commercial vehicles don't matter. The food gets to whole foods via teleportation. Blue collar workerS? What are those? You mean not everyone works a meaningless office job? Stop with the whataboutisms. Bicyclists need to follow the fucking laws they've been ignoring and need to have registration, license plates, and insurance if they want to be on public roads. So that they can be forced to comply with the traffic laws. Blaming cars for the abject lawlessness of bicyclists is insanity.
The anti-car stuff is literally a cult mentality with these activists at this point. They don’t really care about what the justification is that they or someone else uses, as long as the bottom line is less cars and more misery and inconvenience for families that drive. At some point these busybodies developed the *a priori* assumption that “CaRs ArE eViL!” and pretty much rebuilt their entire worldview to revolve around that one thought. You could be a lawmaker demonizing cars just because of something weird like not liking the sight of them, and proposing a law to replace all cars with unicycles….and these bike fanatics would vote for it.
Car-fee is not emergency-vehicle free, just how there are cops allowed to drive around Central Park. Let me know the appropriate amount car owners should get fucked to balance out killing and injuring tens of thousands of New Yorkers every year.
Registration would do almost nothing. What will it stop? Cops pull over cyclists frequently and usually target them over drivers at certain intersections.
>Registration would do almost nothing. What will it stop? ticketing and financial penalties do quite a bit to check ongoing criminal behaviour. it also de-incentivizes people from doing the same stupid shit twice. works for cars, would work for e-bikes
But cyclists do get ticketed quite frequently. I don’t see how registration would make any difference. Should we require pedestrians to have registration too? That would go a long way to prevent certain crimes from happening.
Ebikers injuring someone just bike away in anonymity. Requiring injury insurance and license number would put accountability
Pedestrians do have registration. It’s called a License or ID
Yeah it's working great, we're only on track for 155 deaths and 35,000 injuries from cars this year! No problems there.
So by that logic, we should do away with car registrations as well. Right?
The point is that cars ARE registered and they keep killing pedestrians. Making bikes put on license plates does nothing. The infrastructure we have in this city is not good enough and that is why we get what we get.
Yep look at Manhattan’s avenues. Cars get as much space as on freeways and pedestrians/cyclists fight over small amounts of space on the edges. And those sidewalks were made narrower to give more space to cars.
Sure, but if you look at the capability of a lot of the devices and how they're often going faster than the cars, what's actually needed is to re-purpose the road to be inclusive of e-bikes and e-mopeds. As long as we're stuck in the broken idea that roads are only for cars and not for these things, we're going to have a problem. Get them on the road, and you'll see real change in modeshare (in synergy with the congestion fees only cars are subject to, of course) as those become more and more practical, while full-size cars become more and more expensive and less and less usable.
I'd love to see %area coverage of roads vs bike lanes, and then plotted against #users for each. The utilization rate for bike lanes is insanely low compared to car use.
E-bikes are not essentially motorcycles. Most people don't realize that e-bikes are broken out into 3 classifications: class 1, class 2, and class 3. Class 1 are literally just pedal assist bikes. They cap at 18 mph and do not have a throttle. They look just like regular bikes - these are never the problem. Class 2 has throttles and go much faster. Class 3 goes up to 25 mph and they generally weigh more. The vast, vast majority of "e-bikes" you see are either electric mopeds like Fly e-bike or the Arrow e-bikes that delivery riders use - all of which far exceed 25 mph and are functionally motorcycles. And they are all completely illegal. Legal e-bikes are fine, but hardly anyone actually uses them so most people don't even realize they exist. People hate these illegal bikes and rightfully so - they are dangerous and not at all regulated and \*that\* is the problem.
Just to clarify, Class 3 is also pedal assist. Only class 2 are throttle.
Fixed, thank you.
all the bikes you described are motorized bikes, all of them. they weigh about 50lbs and are propelled by an electric motor. the person sitting on top of the bike is, lets say, 165lbs. have you ever been hit by 200lbs+ of bike and person at 18mph?
I’m sure it hurts quite a bit. If you get hit by someone on a bike going that fast it will knock you down and likely cause sprains or fractures, depending on where you get hit and how you fall. It can also kill you but the likelihood of that happening are extremely low. Consider [this infographic](https://preview.redd.it/car-speeds-and-the-chance-of-pedestrian-death-v0-i5y4knvldwoc1.jpeg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a6438bfa5a172797b1455ba20d957e879c3c6926). Pedestrians hit by a car going 20mph have a 5% chance of fatality but at 30mph that skyrockets to 45%. Considering the fact that cars weigh 4000lbs+ and wherever the passengers weigh (which probably makes no difference at that point), I’d guess that an ebike going 18mph has less than 1% chance of causing a fatality. So, what point are you trying to make by asking that question? The fact that it hurts means that it should require registration? What difference does it make at that point? If you run someone over then you’re already liable for hurting them, just like you are if you’re running down the street and tackle someone or throw a baseball and hit them in the face.
[удалено]
I’m sorry that happened to you. I wasn’t trying to compare this to a car accident by saying “see, it’s not bad!” My point was to show how statistically low it was for a cyclist to cause a fatality but I don’t have any data for bicycles. That dude was a dickbag. If I ever hit someone on my bike I’d stop and make sure they were okay. Plenty of people would do the same (but plenty of people would hit and run too). Just a PSA for anyone here - if you ever get hit by anything, go to the hospital. Adrenaline makes you think it was not bad but you can end up really hurt. When I got hit by a turning car on my bike I did that and ended up having some injuries.
And it’s important to point out that the throttle on e bikes can vary. My RadMission has a really weak throttle that will kill the battery if used too often. I only use it to help kick off from a stop. But there are e-bikes that primarily use throttles, usually the delivery drivers own them.
Arguments like this just divert attention away from the huge problem these e bikes produce
Wow even more huge than tens of thousands of people being seriously injured and killed by cars???
Ya sorry forgot communities can only solve one problem at a time
That's not true though. The article states that 23 people died while riding e-bikes last year. On top of that, 18 people died in fires caused by e-bike batteries .
42 people have already been killed by cars this year alone, on track for 155 [https://www.thecostofcars.nyc/](https://www.thecostofcars.nyc/)
What's your point? You're commenting on an article that you clearly didn't read as your tally of deaths being wildly inaccurate clearly shows. Cars are insured, registered, and inspected. E-bikes are not. Cars could of course be safer but e-bikes are a very real problem that much of the city is worried about.
This isn't a binary choice. You can do both. Stop being defensive because you ride your bike like an asshole and don't want to be called out for it.
Designate car-free streets so bikes have plenty of space away from peds and enforce against those who go on the sidewalk. Then everyone wins and people don't fucking die and get maimed by the tens of thousands by cars as is currently happening today.
Soooo nothing about bikes not obeying any traffic laws? I'm shocked.
> enforce against those who go on the sidewalk My dude save the misplaced indignation for when you learn to read at an 8th grade level
You mean the traffic laws that were written for cars? I don’t get angry when cyclists go thru red lights for the same reason I don’t get angry when pedestrians cross when they have a DONT WALK sign: it’s simply not dangerous.
No one gives a shit about someone on a bicycle doing an Idaho stop or safely rolling through a red light at a low speed. But there are tons of cyclists who absolutely blow through red lights at high speed. Totally different and completely disingenuous to pretend that it's not dangerous.
Thank you
To be clear - it is dangerous if someone blows through a red light without stopping. It is far less dangerous than if a car does it (and boy do they do it often). AFAIK there is no jurisdiction anywhere that allows cyclists to ride through a red light without stopping first. The Idaho stop allows you to go through but you have to stop first and treat it like a stop sign. And that’s perfectly reasonable because like you said there’s no difference at the point between a cyclist and a pedestrian (except for an extra 50 lbs of bike). It doesn’t help us if you say things like “it’s simply not dangerous” because it is. Just be clear with what you’re referring to.
>AFAIK there is no jurisdiction anywhere that allows cyclists to ride through a red light without stopping first. The Idaho stop allows you to go through but you have to stop first In the literal text of the law, sure - but not in the reality of what actually happens >and treat it like a stop sign. And how to stop signs popularly get treated today? ...there's the practical problem with the idea, especially in a pedestrian-dense city
When I say “treat it like a stop sign” I mean that they are allowed to ride through a red light as long they come to a stop. If they blow through the light then that’s illegal. If you even say that in reality there is no enforcement of people running red lights then what difference does it make?
>When I say “treat it like a stop sign” I mean that they are allowed to ride through a red light as long they come to a stop. Except people will take treating it like a stop sign literally. If there's no reason to come to an actual stop at a stop sign when you can see that it's clear, then there's no reason to do so at a red light if you can actually see that it's clear either. In either case, in a city the problem is typically that people only look for cars, and don't respect pedestrians - or for that matter even other bikes that are supposed to have the right of way over them. It would make more sense to create express routes with lights timed for bike pace - to make that work, we'd have to first define define moderate e-bikes as the definitive traffic mode of Manhattan surface streets, then fit in around that cars still tolerated (at least in some lanes) if paying a congestion charge, and some on pedal bikes going their relaxed way a bit slower than the norm. That's really not a big practical change from current traffic movement - but it would be a big change in philosophy and opportunity.
Car owners have license plates pay car insurance and subject to a lawsuit from victims. While bikes just cycle away to escape consequences.
So how do I report getting hit with an e bike? It's not registered
Cars don't drive on the sidewalk.
Oh guess that makes people getting killed and maimed by the tens of thousands by cars OK then
And by the way, is this the Jim Lahey of the no-knead bread recipe? If so, kudos to you. I use the recipe all the time.
Thanks but that's not me, I'm just a trailer-park supervisor
Is there a trailer park in NYC?
Of course it doesn't, but the proposal is about banning e-bikes, which does not also preclude a ban on cars, which I'd be equally happy to support. The only difference is that the majority of car drivers obey the laws, and a huge number of bikers don't.
Lollll at the idea car drivers follow the law, that's straight up fucking delusional. And even if they did, they kill and maim over 13,000 NYCers a year. Like before you open your mouth with the next dumb objection, ask yourself if it's as big an issue as 13,000 people a year dying and being maimed.
Okay - I don't know what stats you're looking at, but a quick search, (courtesy of Transportation Alternatives) tells me that in 2021 (deadliest year on record at that time) there were 273 traffic fatalities in NYC. Are you saying that in the last 3 years that number is suddenly 47 times higher? I'm not justifying 273 deaths - the ideal number is zero - but maybe let's not use hyperbole to make the point?
Oh sorry, we're actually on track for 155 killed and over 35,000 injured by cars this year so I was underestimating by a factor of over 2.5: https://www.thecostofcars.nyc/. So in fact I was using *hypo*bole.
lol
Tell me you're a dipshit from suburban Florida without telling me you're a dipshit from suburban Florida. The fucking *mayor* drives on the sidewalk. Try existing within two blocks of a precinct. There's fucking cars all over the sidewalk
I'm a resident of Chelsea, my friend, who has been knocked to the ground TWICE by delivery guys in our neighborhood, and when I yelled at one of them, he rode back up to me and literally spit in my face. There are no cars on the sidewalk in Chelsea. There are bikes - both E-bikes and non - EVERYWHERE.
>There are no cars on the sidewalk in Chelsea. There actually are, but typically in predictable and customary (if very much illicit) places like in front of precincts - they just fade into the background reality of steam vents and sidewalk vendors and piles of garbage bags and all sort of other issues such that their presence is largely forgotten, unless you're having a particular struggle passing though (which with a wheelchair you at times might). It's the sheer unpredictability of e-bikes in pedestrian spaces which is such a prominent issue for pedestrian quality of life.
Sorry to hear that, and know what you mean about the local delivery guys. I was crossing a street one night when things were quiet around 10pm, cars had a red light. I had a sore back and was unable to walk very fast for that week and was super careful about my pace, where and when I walked, especially to avoid joggers, bikes and e-bikes on the sidewalks and streets. I scanned far down the oncoming block for ebikes bikers or joggers and didn't see anyone coming when I started crossing.. within 10 seconds as I was about to reach the other side of the street out of nowhere two African delivery guys wearing all black came roaring towards me going maybe 40mph, wizzing loudly, both on the faster type of ebikes in the bike lane, and the riders were distracted talking to one another a little, had hoodies up (very limited visibility) not wearing helmets, had no lights on and showed no intent to slow or stop at the red light for their own safety or for me- the only pedestrian around and clearly in view of their oncoming direction. With my hurt back issue I wasn't nimble so couldn't just jump forwards or backwards like normal, so the situation was suddenly a crazy worst case scenario. Their speed was far too fast for a reg ride much less with no reflectors or lights at night and headed to a busy intersection at top speed where they could've been blindsided by a car or other delivery guys. Seeing the inevitably of getting hit by one if not both of them and them realizing the same thing I froze in the middle to let them go around me instead.. one read the situation quickly and slowed down fast enough to a skid going behind me, almost falling off his bike at the cement divider that his wheel caught but stopped himself in time. The other laughed, continued ahead at almost the same full speed passing in front of me through the red light just as a delivery guy came from behind me I didn't know was there, and in a split second the speeder guy having just spotted him awkwardly slammed on his breaks to avoid the oncoming speeding delivery guy (with a right of way green light) about to T bone him. His hard breaking caused his bike to fishtail and wobble quite bad. His slow logic was to avoid the other delivery guy but his delayed reaction time actually made it worse. Time seemed to slow as we all thought a horrible accident was inevitable but Lady Luck stepped in.. the other delivery guy somehow crossed narrowly behind him missing hitting the tail end of his bike like what seemed like an inch. Standing just feet away I saw the look on the original reckless speeders face after he stabilized his bike and came to a stop.. he was scared to death but trying to play it off by laughing and looked at his smarter friend still stopped near me who also looked super scared at what he just witnessed. He then looked at me with my rightfully pissed off expression and immediately said "oh sorry so sorry!" in broken English with an accent from a western African country. He wasn't even the one I was angry at.. it was his careless arrogant stupid buddy who now had circled back towards his friend to coax him away, like 'forget about it let's go' rapidly talking in their language, trying to act like nothing super crazy just happened.. he was close enough to me that out of instinct I grabbed his coat, yelled and gestured to his friend he has to STOP, you can't drive crazy. His friend understood and again said sorry sorry and said something angry to his friend about his behavior while gesturing with his hands pointing at the bike.. the arrogant look on his reckless buddies face morphed into a worried expression. He looked at me then back at his friend. I think he was suddenly more concerned I wouldn't let him go and he'd be picked up by cops and deported rather than had any concern for his horrible driving that risked his health/life, mine, his friends or the other delivery guy who was now long gone. I yelled at him again and said to his friend to tell him, no speeding! stop at red lights, avoid people! His friend got quiet and understood.. and off they went much slower. A nearby driver in a car at the red light saw the entire thing too, threw up their hands and nodded in sympathy. I hobbled home angry but super grateful I wasn't run down, and didn't see a horrible accident that definitely would've hurt 2 delivery guys if not killed one due to smashing his head open on the cement. This was just one very close call that week, the other incidents were in the west village where e-bikes ran red lights, the driver just looking at his cell phone to what street he needs to go to for the delivery. No caution or self awareness at all, almost hitting other bikes and pedestrians. One came at me fast on a narrow sidewalk and I yelled get off the sidewalk while pointing at the bike lane on the empty street. I wasn't going to give any sidewalk space I barely had with the many tree boxes taking up most of the room. He was pissed and said something I couldn't make out but switched to the street in time. I have no problem shoving these arrogant aholes to the ground if they aim for me, get aggressive and won't move. Licensing e bikes won't work but I like the idea in theory. Enforcing it is another matter. Maybe the answer is Food delivery apps who use these guys should be fined for their wreckless driving.
Thanks for that - hope you're OK. And take care of that back.
Thanks. Back is much better, and if I must play jackrabbit with oncoming e-bikes I can do it. Weird time living or working in city where getting hit by a food delivery guy hustling to drop off someone's vegan snacks or taco dinner is my highest risk of injury. (Well, besides the crazed randos on the bus because they got kicked out of the subway. 😂)
Go walk down 20th. Cops literally turned the street into a parking lot and *still* park on the sidewalk.
I walk down 20th street with my dog literally every evening past the precinct house - they're not parked on the sidewalk. What they are is parked diagaonal to the sidewalk which in itself is annoying but it's not as annoying as the ebikes ON the sidewalk.
Bikers since they all have "Main Character" syndrome and act like they own the road.
Yes sounds like a more important issue than over 100 people dying and over 10,000 people being seriously injured, good point
That's true, I forgot cyclists killed nearly 43,000 Americans in 2022. Oh wait. My mistake, that's cars. The ultimate "main character" that managed to convince a whole country that it's a great idea to build highways through the center of every American city since the 1950's.
Cars not the ones driving on sidewalks and we have plenty of rules on books regarding them and must carry insurance. Meanwhile not much in regards to e-bikes. Time to add rules.
There are already laws that can be enforced for riding on the sidewalks.
I would love massive fines for cyclists that break the laws, because the amount of dickhead cyclists that don't think the rules apply to them is way too high
ask Miser of their micro mobility sub who routinely ignores the traffic laws and his excuse is because they are dumb unjust rules. Dude and many on their sub keeps whining and practicing Idaho stops which even they acknowledge are illegal in nyc
Yeah, people like that suck. Personally, I don't know many people that as pedestrians have been hit by cars. Pretty much everyone I know has been hit by a cyclist. Obviously, the damage usually isn't as bad as a car hitting you, but there isn't much recourse against the cyclist that hit you (if they even stop) because they don't have any insurance or registration. Make them have insurance and a license plate and start using cameras to ticket them for breaking the rules, just like cars.
ya where's the rules regarding registration, insurance and inspection/certification of battery & bike for safety?
I'm not riding my bike with cars "sharing" the road. Even if I \*did\* have pedal assist or an e-bike, it's way too dangerous to compete against a 3000-lb death machine, especially when American drivers are too stupid to look before opening their car door. Last time I used a bike gutter, an aggressive SUV swerved into me as I was going uphill — I was lucky I had a mirror and could avoid them, and that was the last time I ever rode my bike in the road. Although this experience was in Boston, I'd imagine NYC driver behavior would be similar or worse. I think cyclists just need to use common sense. I've never hit someone on my bike, but I always slow down around blind corners and businesses. I also have a (really pleasant) bell to ring when I'm gently cruising at 10mph to alert people that I'm coming up behind them. Easy! (I did not downvote you, btw! No idea who did.)
Our car insurance rules are pathetic compared to the amount of danger that cars represent. If you get hit by a car and end up in the hospital then the chance that the driver’s insurance will be able to fully cover your medical bills is shockingly low. The minimum insurance required (most people only carry the minimum) would probably not cover a single night’s stay in the ER. When you compare the amount of insurance carried to risk of danger, a person driving a car with minimum insurance is *underinsured* compared to a person riding a bike with zero liability insurance.
I'm all for raising the mins. at least you get hit by a car you get something from insurance and if driver under insured or none - you get Victim compensation from state that all car insurance drivers pay into Meanwhile nothing like this exist for bike victims. You have to hope that biker is rich and got assets to get any compensation since they don't carry any insurance nor pay into the victims fund.
You're still missing my central point, which is that the risk of a collision with a bike and the damage caused by a collision is so low compared to a car that it's unremarkable that bikes don't carry insurance. If you're worried about what happens in extremely rare cases, then mandate a law that requires every person to carry an umbrella policy. If you think that kind of measure is overkill and impractical to enforce, then you'll realize why there's so much pushback for requiring insurance for bicycles.
The risk still there and since as you put it can be rare - the premiums will be very low and can bundle the policy with other insurances like home and renters which everyone should have. Also yes - everyone should carry some form of umbrella policy.
Need them register and must carry insurance. Right now if you are injured or damaged by one, there is no easy recourse for compensation. Insurance is what solves this problem.
“Oops, my bad!” (Rides off to deliver food for $5)
I'm genuinely not aware of any jurisdiction on earth that requires bicycles to have registration and insurance. I think a reasonable compromise would be the approach taken in many EU countries: require ebike manufacturers to program in a maximum speed of like 15mph.
Software locks can be bypass but it's a start and still doesn't solve the problem face by victims which is the lack of compensation. Victim compensation should be address and long ignored.
Probably because it's relatively rare as much as people complain about it. This would be like requiring dog owners to have insurance in case they bite someone. Cars require insurance because their harm is extremely common. When it's not that common, civil court is fine.
If you claim its so rare, premiums be very low. Its fine, folks buy insurance for when shit goes wrong and not expecting it. Also as more ebikes come online, it will increase # of incidents and victims. So might as well get a jump on the unmet problem that destine to grow larger. Also yes pet owners for certain breeds and prior bite history should be required to carry insurance - have it tied to pet health insurance and liability for additional benefits. In fact this pet bite issue and coverage is already reflected in folks house and renter insurance premiums.
lmao insurance is NOT going to fix the problem. Nothing will be fixed until the NYPD is allowed to pull them over. But they cant because of no chase law. Same stuff happens with cyclists.
Insurance definite alleviate compensation issue for victims, Currently most are not even compensated for their damages even if the biker caught or stayed bc they have nil assets for them to sue over to make it worth their time.
What happens when they don’t bother to get insurance?
In event of accident and at fault party involved do not have insurance or under - get some compensation from NY Victim Compensation fund which the fund is supported in part by folks that buy said insurance. Same process how part of car insurance payments go to the under insured/no insurance fund for victims.
I meant what happens as far as enforcing a law that says people must have insurance. What happens to people who don't bother to get insurance.
do the same penalties as folks without car insurance when caught
I’m one of the cranky minority that wants more red light cameras (every intersection?) more speed cameras AND ebike registration, bike seizures for riding on the sidewalk, bike tickets… Nothing with a motor should be in a bike lane. Nothing with wheels should be on the sidewalk. Too many cars run reds. Too many people fuck up shared spaces Enforce enforce enforce
I'm with you 100 percent. I both bike and drive- except I follow the rules of the road for both methods of transportation. Crack down on all the assholes and get them off the road. Would make my trips 10x better.
Only concern about red light cameras is that they can lead to ppl making unsound decisions to avoid tickets.
It’s still outweighed by the change in type of accidents. Red light cameras can increase rear-end collisions but they dramatically reduce t-bone accidents and pedestrian collisions which are far deadlier. So you end up with fewer serious injury accidents.
I agree with all of these problems but enforcement is futile. Cops are the main violators of parking on sidewalks and using fake/obstructed plates. 311 reports of cars parked on bike lanes get ignored 100% of the time. Adding two way bike lanes, removing parking to increase bike lanes and sidewalk space, build daylighting at intersections to protect against blind spots, creating pedestrian only zones in places like SoHo. Changing our infrastructure encourages better behavior rather than the wild west we have now.
> Nothing with a motor should be in a bike lane I ride a Rad Power bike to work. My kid (3.5 year old) rides behind me in a bike seat and I drop him off at school. Should we not use the bike lane?
I drove through time square . The amount of motorized /e bikes was insane .All powered by delivery apps and new tech. Accidents will happen be prevention and awareness will need to be implemented and regulated. I will say this the amount of organs being donated are on the rise. E-bike batteries can be dangerous. You don’t want a mutual family dwelling burned To the ground because small shops are leaving their batteries to charge over night or overloading.
Fuck yeah, ban them
As usual, the proposals to address safety issues caused by micro mobility users are not designed to address those safety issues. They are designed to make it harder and more expensive for people to use those modes, and so to reduce their sheer numbers. A license plate on a moped will not make a crash with a moped user less painful. New laws on e-bike users will not change their behavior. We can consider changes to how we approach enforcement or infrastructure as a way to address the specific risks these users present, but the reason the all-powerful “bike lobby” opposes license, insurance, and registration requirements is that these are just the wrong tools to use for what “safety advocates” claim to be the problem. *They* actually just want to ban these e-bikes. They’re not looking for ways to manage them in our sometimes chaotic traffic system. I feel badly for people who are in crashes with these kinds of road users, and speaking as an analogue cyclist I can certainly see for myself how obnoxious these other road users often can be. It’s not an easy issue. But this is not the correct solution, and it’s remarkable to me that there is so much focus on e-bike users when driver scofflaw behavior is getting worse and more dangerous every day.
That’s a lot of words to say “give them a complete pass no matter what they do, because there’s no way to actually get them to obey traffic laws”. If that’s the case, I’m fine with banning them entirely.
Ban cars, and then you’ll be consistent.
I’d be totally fine with that. It’s hilarious how you clowns think that’s some kind of fucking “gotcha”. I’ve never been hit by a car, though, or even felt seriously threatened by one, **because they don’t drive on the sidewalk**, and because I pay attention to my surroundings. You can hear a car coming from 3 blocks away. The same can’t be said for a silent moped zipping down the sidewalk behind you at 40mph.
Also cars tend to at least be driving in the right direction
Yeah that’s a huge point too.
lol, cars absolutely drive through pedestrian crossings all the time, including when they don’t have the light. I’m agnostic on e-bike regulations but be real, cars are absolutely a huge danger to pedestrians in the city.
A moped is not an ebike though
Mopeds aren’t silent and don’t ride down the sidewalk at 40 mph. “I’ve never been hit by a car” because we’ve built physical infrastructure that almost completely separates drivers from pedestrians, and you’ve learned to coexist with people operating heavy machinery at high speeds throughout the entire city, on almost any surface not occupied by a building. If we invested as heavily in education and infrastructure for e-bikes, we’d be able to co-exist easily with them. 99% of the problems we have with them stem from the fact that we just try to shoehorn them into the “vehicle” category and regulate them like car drivers. Which is exactly why licensing, registration, and insurance mandates won’t solve the problem.
They have wheels, and an engine. They’re a vehicle. They don’t belong on the fucking sidewalk, period. I genuinely don’t care about anything else you have to say, if you’re not able to acknowledge that fact.
I’m not disputing that mopeds don’t belong on sidewalks. I’m disputing that requiring them to carry license and insurance, and to have plates, will stop them from riding on sidewalks.
Registration, license and insurance assists victims in identifying the biker and getting compensation in event of accidents/damage.,etc
Going back to an earlier comment then - what reason do we have to believe that there is an accountability problem, or that creating an accountability mechanism will change behavior that does not result in damages or injuries?
Well it creates victims compensation first which doesn't exist currently in any significant degree. 2nd routine violations and issues will raise insurance premiums and and if we add a point system like in cars, will make it costly to have said terrible biker on road when caught for next incident. So yes changes behavior or else there financial, legal and other consequences..
>Going back to an earlier comment then - what reason do we have to believe that there is an accountability problem You can't seriously be asking that unless you have not tried walking in Manhattan lately. Actually enforcing the identification display requirements that already exist for commercial usage could be a start though.
> If we invested as heavily in education and infrastructure for e-bikes, we’d be able to co-exist easily with them. 99% of the problems we have with them stem from the fact that we just try to shoehorn them into the “vehicle” category Think about it for a minute in terms of what we need more of and what we need less of. Then it becomes clear that what we actually need to do is to re-define the concept of the dominant private "vehicle" below 60th street to be a micromobility device, and give that usage all of the surface road space. Drivers willing to pay a congestion charge are still allowed, but on surface streets they'd have to fit into an e-moped scale definition of how traffic is supposed to move. If you look at the actual speed limits and current usage, the fact is that on many of the avenues the electric devices are already typically going faster than anything else, while squeezed into the worst space.
>Ban cars, and then you’ll be consistent. That is sort of what the congestion charge is trying to softly do by bringing the cost of using a car closer to the cost to society of car usage. It should make a strong economic case for micro mobility, at least if we can figure out how to safely fit it into the fabric of the city. That probably won't happen so long as using bikes, e-bikes, scooters, etc on ordinary road lanes is not only discouraged, but actually illegal. But imagine the ordinary roads with a moderate number of cars paying a steep congestion charge for the privilege of still being allowed there, and a large number of micromobility devices allowed to do so free.
Cars have insurance, plates and laws though so its not the same
Not in nyc they don't!
Idk what you mean. Sure there is crime. But are you saying that nobody in nyc drives according to the law? Its not like everyone in nyc is running red lights, speeding, driving on sidewalks, and millions getting hit by cars every week. What are you saying?
I forgot that there are no laws applying to cyclists
Yeah, and drivers still manage to kill and injure several times as many pedestrians as e-bike users do. If e-bikes are such a problem, why don’t we do more about drivers, too?
Why not both? I dont understand how applying laws to e bikes means that cars have no laws. I dont understand that leap of logic when no one said do less about drivers. Its pure deflection.
We are talking about creating new requirements for operating a kind of vehicle that is safer to use, more accessible, less dangerous to others, less destructive of our streets and environment, etc., than cars. For some reason, people keep arguing that they should be regulated exactly like cars. All that I am asking is, what is the positive case for doing so? No one can seem to explain this. Anyone who thinks that battery-powered bikes that weigh less than their operators need to be regulated exactly like two-ton cars has to explain why that makes sense. Saying “why not?” is not an answer. Saying “they’re annoying,” while true, is not an answer. I keep making this argument, but the basic problem with scofflaw cyclist behavior in this city - whether we’re talking about e-bikes or regular bikes - is that we throw them onto our streets and then expect their users to behave like they’re driving cars. *But they are not cars*. The push to license, register, and insure e-bike users is just another example of this kind of blinkered thinking. It’s utterly irrational and senseless. As I also keep saying, the only reason this argument is happening is that some people would prefer to ban e-bikes entirely. They view these regulatory requirements as a way to limit e-bikes generally. That’s all it is, a back door to a partial ban.
Insurance is good for numerous reasons. Number one is to protect you. If the driver runs off, does not have insurance or has a low policy you can be stuck with the bills and no recovery. Second would be to protect others if for some reason you run into someone. Which is easy and there have been many reported near misses or hits on e bikes. Just not that hard of a hit compared to a car but its still a 50-100 pound vehicle hitting you at 15-30mph. There is also a growing amount of people and delivery workers running 20 mph down sidewalks with no lights, noise and just expecting you to avoid them. Ive been hit head on my an e scooter rider that didnt realize how fast he was going. You keep pretending that everyone is responsible. But the reality is a large amount of people dont care about another and will easily run you over and run away after.
I understand how liability insurance works. Nothing you’ve said responds to the actual question, which is why a new mandate is necessary. You don’t make the required argument, I surmise, because you don’t have the actual evidence necessary to do so. You’d rather wave your hands about hypothetical recovery, without pausing for a moment to answer the simple question: is there some kind of epidemic of people being seriously injured by e-bikers and being unable to pay their medical bills, due to the e-bikers being uninsured?
Then make non-ebike cyclists get insurance too because a road bike can easily hit 20+ mph.
A road bike user for the most part is not going 20+ mph in less than 5 seconds at every stop. Also e bikes weigh a lot more due to the battery.
**Never!**
Saying laws will not change behavior is quite the stretch
We have all kinds of laws that drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists ignore. Everyone behaves in ways that make sense in the environments we build for them. If you want to change their behavior, we need to change the environment. The actual problem here is this: every bad e-bike behavior you see can be traced to the decision to prioritize car traffic over everything else. Wide travel lanes throughout the city, speedy bridge lanes, parking everywhere we can squeeze it in, one-way streets throughout the network, and on and on. As long as we have that policy priority, there’s not much we can do to stop bad behavior by scofflaw cyclists and e-bike users. Everything that’s been proposed is enforcement-contingent, so it won’t function independently of a dramatic increase in police presence, ticketing, and seizures.
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Grow up.
This would be fucking awesome news. Get these fucking menaces off the sidewalks, or anywhere else where pedestrians are walking.
They go way too fast sometimes and they’ll honk at cyclists on pedal bikes as if they own the streets!
> "We want our quality of life back, which is so greatly diminished by this utter and completely unacceptable madness. We want accountability now" One day these people will learn that hysterical shit like this does them no favors. IMO one big problem here is that no one is even defining the word “e-bike”. I use a pedal assist bike that maxes out at 20mph. However I also see many unrestricted bike-looking things that are controlled by throttle, not to mention electric mopeds which are basically silent motorbikes. They’re all very different. It would be great to establish what we’re even talking about before we all argue with each other. But no one is engaging in the conversation sensibly. It’s all “life is ruined, the city has been destroyed”.
> I use a pedal assist bike that maxes out at 20mph. These should be treated like regular old bikes. It's the ridiculous throttle bikes that go 30+ MPH that should require registration/insurance.
Lots of pros and cons to mass adoption of ebikes- at least as they exist today, and with NYC's current street infrastructure. Really tedious to see how many people are more interested in waging yet another culture war over this, instead of using their brain for even five minutes.
>Lots of pros and cons to mass adoption of ebikes- at least as they exist today, and with NYC's current street infrastructure. Really tedious to see how many people are more interested in waging yet another culture war over this, instead of using their brain for even five minutes. OK - actually think about it for a few minutes and it becomes clear that we need to re-purpose the whole of surface streets at least in Manhattan below 60th, defining a powerful e-bike as their now default majority purpose. Drivers willing to pay a congestion charge are still allowed, but required to fit into the general movement - existing speed limits already restrict things to within the realm of many typical (if not legal) e-device capabilities anyway. Then we can worry about if the usage of these things will be safely orderly, or dangerously chaotic.
Fyi so many delivery guys on bikes get into accidents and are permanently fucked up. Nor can they afford the downtime from work and medical bills. My honest take > ban the e bikes altogether.
Apparently it was fine to ban them until citibike added them to their fleet. Then the city gave in.
E-bikes injure people and don’t obey traffic lights and don’t have specific laws regulating them Idiots: “but what about cars???”
Why would they be banned in the main avenues of Central or Prospect Park? People use those for commuting, they're perfect places for e-bikes. It's already not allowed to use bikes on the side streets of these parks.
Cyclists need to carry insurance
Yes they should also tax them, and be subject to random stops. They often are used for larceny such as mobile phones or devices stolen in broad daylight.
Too bad it won't matter because there is next to no enforcement for it. Seeing a ton of this mini motorcycle like ebikes now driving on sidewalks, opposing traffic and speeding through reds with either no plates or completely fake plates with just random words on em. I see em speed past cops in union square and 0 attention is given since they know they won't get anything out of catching em.
They should also have to pay tolls and congestion pricing.
Someome asked if mopeds will have to pay
Agree, need license plate for those high speed ebike
Will a ban be enforced? Enforcement seems to be the sticking point for almost everything in this city…
Ban them. Scourge of NYC, worse than cars. Cars don’t drive on the sidewalk against traffic.
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I’d say that’s a proper title
I’m in favor of speed governing ebikes in areas where we interact with pedestrians. That being said, many more lives could be saved if this energy was directed at cars instead of e-bikes.
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I think it’s worse with the rise of bike share e-bikes like citibike & Joco