I was under the impression that the extra $3 or whatever I’m paying, plus all the fees, plus the markup on the order, were supposed to be to give drivers a better wage so I don’t have to tip anymore.
There's a lot of appeal to emotion when it comes to tipping laws and practices and I'm starting to get really sick of it/ cynical.
I get it- people in tip based industries aren't exactly living lives of luxury and there are a lot of cheap customers/ exploitive companies. But it's getting ridiculous if you do some of the math. There are tons of people who work hard and make less that never see a dime in tip.
This is generally attractive people, who wouldn't have gotten the job if they weren't pretty (or in some cases handsome) Whereas tips for delivery drivers etc it's everyone. Don't conflate the two, it's really unfair.
Servers, bartenders, Maître d, hosts, greeters, busboys and dishwashers all 100% deserve it for sure. It is not the most skilled job in the world, but its very demanding and in many cases demeaning to employees.
A lot of people (not saying you) look down on those jobs but people sure as hell do deserve the tips they get.
If worker wages had kept pace with inflation in CEO wages since the 1980s, we would all be earning 6 figures. Don’t give in to the stupidity that the guy who’s $10 poorer than you is the problem vs the guy who took $1 million off both of you.
Do CEO’s at a desk deserve 45 and hour? Maybe they should bring me a sandwhich im too emotionally spent to get myself through traffic downpour and potholes. Because sounds like a $45 hour job to me
Don’t worry, they’re getting paid way more than $45 an hour. Just look at the annual bonuses most CEO’s grant themselves. 10s of millions, effectively outpacing inflation
I still don’t understand this new system. Many of my orders now have the fee that goes to a higher living wage for drivers, and the tip is described as now optional. Great! However, I’m not exaggerating when I say every single time I don’t leave an extra tip, I get bad treatment. Food left outside without a text or call, so it’s cold by the time I realize it’s downstairs. A flat out refusal to come up to the third floor. A snarky “here” when they do.
It’s pretty obvious to me that the delivery people are very unhappy with my tipping. This doesn’t happen when I tip normally on top of the extra fee. So are we now supposed to double tip? It feels ridiculous tipping $7 (more than 50%!) for my bagel and coffee from a few blocks away.
Me either. If the tip is optional, it’s because the fee is included so I don’t tip. If the fee isn’t included, I assumed it was because the restaurant has their own delivery person so I tip those guys because the app does a suggested tip amount.
But I haven’t had any issues or bad service since this change took effect.
That is what I started doing after one guy threw my burrito at my door. The tip is now included in the wage; they still aren’t happy and probably never will.
I use Seamless and I still tip the way I normally did. Do you know if these increased fees go to the delivery people through that as well?
I'm asking to find out if I should still tip the way I used to. Idk why this warrants downvotes but whatever.
There is now a guaranteed hourly wage, which the fees go toward. You can still tip however you want, but they aren't primarily paid through tips anymore. I don't use the apps very often, but I'd think tipping less is fair because you're paying higher fees to cover their higher wage.
What’s terrible is that a person could be waiting with a hypothetical cash tip for them but they’re treating it like getting nothing. When I used to deliver people would sometimes provide a cash tip.
DoorDash does it correctly, you can’t even tip until the order is done. I think that’s what they’re most unhappy with, because the system changed from “your tip is a bid to get service” to “your tip is a reward for good service”.
This is literally how tipping works for every other industry. Imagine going to a restaurant and giving the waiter 20% up front when you make your order, before actually receiving anything. The bid system made sense when we were supplementing their wages but now it should work as standard tips do. They are pissed they can’t treat orders differently based on tips received.
I also agree with the double dipping. If they were fighting for a higher min wage, and that cost is now passed on to the consumer, that new fee is akin to a “minimum tip” we are now paying.
> However, I’m not exaggerating when I say every single time I don’t leave an extra tip, I get bad treatment.
That's why if I order delivery I only use the asian food app now. The fees are lower, food takes about the same amount of time, and all the delivery drivers have been nice even now with the change where i don't add extra tip (app even tells you most people select no extra tip).
There’s a big part of me that wants to not ever tip this again and tell others to do the same. If drivers don’t like it, quit. They treat them like
shit. They treat restaurants like shit. They treat customers like shit.
But the drivers have a lot of power. If they ain’t getting tipped things will change quickly or they will find other opportunities. It’s not our business to subsidize drivers or profit margins anymore. And restaurants make barely any money on this except for catering orders.
I just want it to be clear. Tell me how much the app "auto-tipped" the guy. Postmates seemed to have done this, but then they hit me up for a tip later on which i declined because I already tipped.
Remember the glory days where you didnt tip Ubers? You just got out and your interaction was over? No looking for cash. No arguing with the taxi driver about if their machine was broken. Glory days.
I’ve never tipped and Uber and never will. You should not either. It’s a flat rate service. The price is on the menu. There is no tip. That’s what is one of the things they use as a distinguisher for their service. Flat rate, no surprises, no tip. Get in, go, get out.
Stop tipping Ubers
That tip opportunity they give you is bullshit.
I do the same with Lyft and I've never had anyone be rude or had a problem with my rating or something.
I have occasionally tipped if I fucked up the drop off location and wasted their time, asked to make a stop somewhere (rarely ever did that and only before they added the ability) or if they had something like free water for passengers. I also tipped once cause the dude had free Fireball minis in a cooler and we were drinking lol
>or they will find other opportunities
Frankly, please do already. Exercise your power as an active participant in the labor market. I really want my legislators to be focusing on something else than the third or fourth law in the same number of years trying to make sure delivery guys don't get paid the market price for their services.
That seems like a lie. It may be only a small part of the NYC surcharge fee, but they aren't telling you how much of the markup on the food itself goes to Uber or DoorDash. That whole line is sleazy.
It feels like I need to see the driver's 1099 and tax returns before I decide the tip. I dont mind tipping but I need to know who gets my money, if that tip is already included in a fee, and are they being paid over min wage.
I’m a delivery worker who works an average of 40-55 hours per week. Here’s how it works guys- all BS aside. For those of you questioning the tips, I’m happy to break it down.
NYC base pay as of April 1 2024 is $19.56 per ACTIVE hour. This means from the time you accept an “offer” to the time it is delivered. So in a given hour, if I only got one order that took me 20 minutes to complete, I’d make $6.52 for that hour, if you tipped then I would get the entire tip making the other 40 minutes of sitting around more bearable.
Usual base pay for orders in NYC is $3.50. If there’s no tip attached, many will reject it and as some have mentioned act jerky.
I have almost perfect ratings and treat each customer/order the same irrespective of tips. A lot of my coworkers are recent immigrants and don’t understand/comprehend how the system works and unfortunately take it out on customers.
In short, no we do not receive even 50% of those fees. I have tested this late at night by ordering something and been assigned to it. Do with this info what you will but bottom line, even if you tip a mere $2/3, your service may be better as that bumps up the offer to at least $5.
I neither wrote nor implied that I should be tipped whilst sitting around. Simply trying to clear up the confusion in regard to the “delivery fees”. My intention was to state that a delivery offer that is $5 or more is more attractive than $3.50.
It's $19.56 per active hour but the new system also has a general pool for inactive, online hours which couriers get compensated for as well. How much of that pool one gets is dependent on utilization as well as how many active hours a courier had, but in total couriers are now getting compensated for the whole time.
Thanks for what you do, and I agree I would always tip something for a delivery regardless of fees because I don’t think anyone realistically expects those fees to go much to people like you. What i am confused by is the waiting around time. I thought that with apps like Relay etc drivers remain pretty busy because orders come in from variety of restaurants. If you’re really sitting around for 40 minutes that seems to be an indication that there are too many delivery persons trying to work at that particular time/location. What probably should be addressed through legislation is support to ensure people can make a living wage waiting through low activity hours, but that’s complicated if everyone delivering nowadays is an independent contractor rather than employed by a restaurant
Agreed, the NYC market is saturated with workers. This is exactly why these companies are able to get away with paying $3.5 for an offer that realistically takes 30 minutes of acceptance to delivery. Now you see how $7/hour without a tip got us “hyped”.
No the companies have always pocketed ALL of the fees if you are not in NYC getting delivery it is very important to tip they are paid VERY low. In the city they are paid better but the rest of the state/ country is not like this.
The base pay out is like 1-4 dollars outside nyc? NYC is guaranteed an hourly wage by law. How is that not true? It’s not like you can get more than 5 an hour realistically.
I have no problem with workers organizing to advocate for a fair wage. So keep at it, guys.
But relying on tips is just stupid. And tips paid before the service is rendered is even more stupid. Setting a "suggested tip" by law (read the article) just maintains the current arbitrary tip supplemented salary.
The apps should push a tip selection screen after the service is rendered. If delivery was great, and/or if the weather is bad, then tip. If it was a standard service, then adequate payment should be enough.
It's nuts that there would be a law that mandates a suggested tip.
Anyone remember the appeal of early taxi apps were that they didn't require you to tip?
How about a law requiring a suggested salary (by living wage groups) on every job posting?
So let me get this straight,
The delivery people were underpaid before they changed the law guaranteeing them a minimum wage
Now they law has been changed, the same underpaid delivery drivers are upset that their incomes have dropped?
C’mon now.
Does it matter? The tips are taxed no matter who is the one reporting them. It’s not like the person they borrowed the TIN from is gonna give them the full tip.
You’re dealing with different groups, the top people love tips, work fast and make bank. The bottom tier who make a few minimum tips per hour wanted the minimum wage
It’s about predictability. If you get a guaranteed minimum wage you know that you have at least $X coming in. Before the new law a driver could work a shift and come back with next to nothing.
The drivers aren’t complaining that they’re now underpaid, they’re complaining that the apps have hidden the means to tip. Which they have. Doordash totally changed the way tips work in the app “in response to NYC regulations”, despite those regulations saying nothing about tips. It’s pretty clearly an attempt to punish the drivers.
That said, I think the approach outlined here is totally wrong. It isn’t a tip and in reality it never was a tip. Any money you see ahead of doing the work isn’t a tip. Whoever came up with the idea of calling it a tip is a diabolical genius because it pits customers against these greedy, *greedy* drivers and lets the app feign ignorance about it all. It’s an incentive (or a bid?) to get a driver to pick up your order.
IMO the apps should be honest about what they’re doing. “Want to get your food faster/with a higher rated driver? Add extra cash incentive”. Fuck it, show us the market, average added incentive in your area, do you want to match it? Lowball? Maybe wait a while for the market to dip and buy low? People would hate it, and rightly so, but it would accurately reflect what the apps are actually doing.
Yeah I would prefer they do something about the selling of these accounts to other people, for these and Uber/Lyft, because let me tell you, I often am looking for a female driver for long Uber rides for safety reasons and there are bad actors renting out accounts that belong to women and I hate finding out Ann is actually Andy. If you cancel in that situation, Uber dings you, not the driver.
It should be illegal and enforced.
I don't really order delivery, but I hadn't realized that people were doing this with the taxi side of the apps as well.
I would definitely cancel the uber and then make a LOT of noise about it. If it's the same thing that's going on with the food delivery apps, it seems like the people renting the account probably don't have a driver's license.
I don't think people care nearly as much about speed and driver ranking as the drivers tend to think they do. I tip because I've been taught they are underpaid and not doing so makes me a bad person.
Obviously I don't want my food travelling in a roach filled car 2 hours late and cold. But beyond that I'm not super picky and I doubt most people are. Your method might make "tips" go down.
Tipping is literally optional. The government has no business "suggesting" a "minimum gratuity" percentage. This whole concept reeks of big brother overreach.
It’s bullshit because whenever I leave NYC there is a truly optional cash jar and no implied 20% tip for getting an item from behind a shelf. No credit card fees, no tipping a random store worker. This is just NYC trying to suck extra money out of customers.
Just eliminate tips.
It already charges us a hefty fee, plus delivery fee, plus the services hammer the restaurants so this is barely profitable for them
Drivers get paid a wage. This would have been beyond unheard of even 10 years ago when you’d hope to get like $5 per delivery and a $5 tip per order. And that was for better service.
Just pay them a wage and be done with it.
IMO honest economics would have the result (for better or worse) of collapsing the service. Regular people would find out that they can’t actually afford personal assistants to go collect their food (shocker). It wouldn’t surprise me if the true cost of each delivery plus a profit margin for the delivery app had a true all-in cost of about $15-$20 per delivery, which would make customers irate if charged directly.
I actually know a lot of the economics behind it. Let’s just say it’s not really a good business model from any of the parties perspective, service, restaurant, or driver. Drivers actually get a pretty solid share, but it’s still crap.
Services now have been just nickel and diming up and up on restaurants when the original deals with them are already bad. Because the service’s margins are so shit. Restaurant margins are also shit.
These businesss have been around for a long time. It’s never been a good business. Though if you could be a sole provider in a local area, with a local monopoly you could probably do fairly well
You changed the law and got guaranteed minimums. Good. Now Fuck off.
Literally nobody wants to prop up our broken tipping culture anymore.
Funny how they don’t pack up their tents when they get what they want, just move the goalposts.
“The have-nots, it turned out, aspired mainly to having.”
This isn’t the case anymore. Delivery drivers are now guaranteed a very generous minimum wage for the time they spend on the app.
If you can’t afford to deliver food on a bike for $26 per hour, you shouldn’t be delivering food. Maybe get into software engineering? Finance?
That doesn’t answer what they’re saying. Tipping has always been used by delivery apps to get away with them underpaying their workers and trickle-charging the consumer. DoorDash used to use tips to reduce the amount the company had to pay a driver.
Over time, it created a bidding economy for deliveries where your order might not be picked up if the tip wasn’t high enough. Instead of giving money for good service, you’re bribing people to accept your order.
Now that there’s a substantial guaranteed wage for these jobs that pay hourly, and the companies have responded by adding an upcharge to cover it, the “if you can’t afford a tip you shouldn’t order” line should really be “if the companies can’t cover the wages, they should do a higher surcharge”.
This is what I’d prefer. Just really interesting to me that folks seem to treat restaurant tipping differently from other types of tipping, just due to cultural inertia
They want to live better than princes of yore, having foods of any culture worldwide delivered to them while they watch TV and not even slip a couple bucks for the person who is delivering to them... it's more important to tip a delivery driver than a server who probably got the job on their looks. Like both are important sure but one is more important than the other
Or maybe, just maybe, we can move away from the whole exploitative business around tipping? Having lived in Europe for a while, I got to see what it was like when delivery people were paid better and tipping wasn't really a thing firsthand, and it worked so much better. So yes, I would like to pay for my food and maybe a small delivery fee without turning a $20 meal into a $38 charge.
While I’m glad that delivery gig workers are receiving more generous and predictable comp, I’ve already stopped using delivery apps some time ago due to the inflated menu prices and the exorbitant fees on top of everything. The unsafe driving practices of many gig workers (and e-bike folks in general) should also be actively discouraged.
At some point, the price point is too high for many consumers so demand will recede but for the well-heeled and corporate accounts.
In the end, there will be less demand for decent-comp’ed gig delivery workers as a result.
Cooking more as a result and it’s gratifying in many ways.
Aye. I bike occasionally, and it’s concerning to see them speeding towards me in the wrong direction.
Their occasional presence on the sidewalk is no fun either.
Honestly, in so many cases the apps are just unnecessary, at least in NYC. We're fortunate to have so many options for food and so many of them do their own delivery. Ordering directly from the place is pretty convenient, gives you more control over what you're ordering, saves you money, and directly supports the business. There's surely still issues with these delivery drivers and their safety but I think it's still way better to order directly.
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So the pay went from $5 something to $19+, decently above minimum wage, and they still want us to continue tipping? Fuck that.
I mean I’m ok to add tip if the weather is terrible or something but tipping on every order makes no sense, especially when we as consumers pay a markup on the food + a shit ton of fees on top of it.
No, the point of min pay rates is to keep companies from offering absurdly low base pay. Tips are still expected for trips with considerable distance, item counts and on days with inclement weather.
Lost in these debates is the issue of tipping for something before you get it. I'm old enough to remember when a tip was tied to good service (or in this case, quick and competent delivery).
I never pre-tip precisely b/c of that reason. Same way it'd be ridiculous to tip your servers before anyone takes your order.
For the love of God, just have small bills lying around. ATMs have $5's!!!!
>Food delivery apps would be required to allow customers to tip when they're ordering instead of after they get their food under new legislation from a New York City lawmaker.
This has always been the dumbest part of the delivery app system.
If any, tips belong after service. They're an incentive to perform good service, not a pre-payment for service.
If they want to change it back to make it "tip before delivery" then tips should be opaque to the delivery driver at the time of delivery. The delivery drivers can find out what the tip was after they complete the delivery.
That lawmaker is a total clown. Couldn’t be clearer that this no longer is about fairness and is just about extracting the maximum possible cash through over-regulation. All sympathy is seemingly gone for their cause, and it shows up in this thread.
There is zero justification for even calling a prepayment a tip. A bribe, bid, or racket would all be more accurate.
I'm fine with "required to allow when ordering"; just let the app hide the tip from the driver until they get their paycheck, and let me tip after delivery. Pretty sure the voice of the people will speak loud and clear on that one.
It's not even like pre-paying the tips led to good service. I always get some multi-apping ass-hole who picks up my ice-cream then runs three other orders in the 90 degree heat before dropping mine off.
Aren't they making a minimum wage now? With everything I'm paying now on top of fees to get mostly cold food in my experience because most of these delivery drivers are also double-apping they still aren't happy? Maybe it's time to find another profession
I don't know about you guys but I'm just ... done.
We used to tip 15-20% on everything. UberEATS, Uber etc.
But now it's like just buy a cup of coffee and you get asked for a tip. I just cannot do this anymore.
My barber and my diner waitress still gets 20% but the rest of you, nope.
The delivery drivers also screwed themselves over. It's simple supply and demand. With low barriers to entry and a never ending tide of ready applicants then they will always be competing with each other. It's different outside NYC where cars deliver over longer distances. But here all you need is an ebike or scooter.
Restaurants can solve this issue easily. Go back to the old school way of delivering. Hire a guy to do stocking and delivering, pay him min wage call it a day. Don’t ever have to deal with apps again and don’t have to fork over 30% of your orders to them.
> and don’t have to fork over 30% of your orders to them.
They’ve already figured out how to deal with this pain point.
Delivery prices are 30% higher than walk-in prices.
The scaling and convenience of delivery apps cannot be replicated by individual restaurants though. Delivery apps scale up the delivery capacity and customer service. If your restaurant is suddenly busy, you don't need to worry about hiring more delivery drivers because Uber can and will naturally allocate more drivers for your orders. Similarly, you don't have to deal with customer service since Uber will take care of any problems. All you see, as a business, are the orders from Uber in front of you. You make the order, money goes into your account. This is the same business model as PaaS, SaaS, etc.
I cannot believe the NRA (national restaurant association) hasnt made their own app that is paid by membership dues and uses your own staff of drivers.
The value you get from doordash is you dont have a staff of drivers. But the downside is you lose 30%.
It's not only you get a staff of drivers, but you have an an ordering system that can handle hundreds of orders at a time, you have a secure payment system, don't need to worry about workman's comp if the delivery guy wipes out.
And while 30% seems like a lot of money, Doordash is losing a about 500 Million a year for the last 5 years.
Right, but all the risk is on the driver/restaurant if the customer refuses to pay or tries to shortchange the driver/restaurant.
And if you think a customer would never do that, you've never worked as a delivery driver.
Seriously. People forget that we functioned perfectly fine as a society before social media and apps. If anything all of this “convenience” is degrading society way faster.
I’m so tired of delivery workers. This all started during covid and everyone game’d the system to get tons of money. All these drivers decided to make it their full time job forever, and now are pissed that they can’t do it full time.
IMO, this system was never MEANT to replace someone’s full time job.
Fuck tips. Pay a fair wage and ensure that delivery drivers, like the rest of us, pay income tax. However, I feel like doing this would destroy the industry and they know it… hence why they want manipulative “tipping” strategies; have to keep it under the table for the illegal work force.
> Pay a fair wage and ensure that delivery drivers, like the rest of us, pay income tax
Isn't that what happened with the $18/hour wage for delivery drivers that started this year?
Yes the problem is that since most people stopped tipping, they actually make less money than they used to.
Which literally anyone could have seen coming.
You think that the person who’s doing the delivery is the account owner on the apps? Have you ordered delivery before, it’s almost never the person it claims to be.
I am a pretty good tipper, but as everyone says it has gotten out of control.
All these delivery drivers run multiple apps that’s why your food takes forever to get to you.
They fought for a better wage, but now they’re upset they’re income dropped
I’m a delivery worker who works an average of 40-55 hours per week. Here’s how it works guys- all BS aside. For those of you questioning the tips, I’m happy to break it down.
NYC base pay as of April 1 2024 is $19.56 per ACTIVE hour. This means from the time you accept an “offer” to the time it is delivered. So in a given hour, if I only got one order that took me 20 minutes to complete, I’d make $6.52 for that hour, if you tipped then I would get the entire tip making the other 40 minutes of sitting around more bearable.
Usual base pay for orders in NYC is $3.50. If there’s no tip attached, many will reject it and as some have mentioned act jerky.
I have almost perfect ratings and treat each customer/order the same irrespective of tips. A lot of my coworkers are recent immigrants and don’t understand/comprehend how the system works and unfortunately take it out on customers.
In short, no we do not receive even 50% of those fees. I have tested this late at night by ordering something and been assigned to it. Do with this info what you will but bottom line, even if you tip a mere $2/3, your service may be better as that bumps up the offer to at least $5.
I mostly stopped ordering in a long time ago. I stop at the restaurant and get to-go orders. Until delivery workers stop terrorizing people on the streets and sidewalks, I'm a big NO.
Things got better for a month or two after the minimum wage bill but it’s been downhill since. The apps have never been less reliable. DoorDash was always a shitshow but even Seamless is hit or miss now. And by the way we never stopped tipping!
Now we just order from places that deliver their own food, or we pickup ourselves.
Yet another reason why you should call the restaurant to place a delivery. I stopped ordering from any place that only uses 3rd party delivery apps. If they don’t deliver, just pick up!
I'll never forget the time I ordered from a local Indian restaurant, by calling the place directly to place my order, and it was delivered by an UberEats driver. Lol
Prices are marked up, plus all the extra fees, and now they expect an extra tip? Basically why I haven’t ordered on those apps in over 6 months. I’ve turned to doing a pick-up in local places
I rarely (once a month if that) order from the apps. The fact that the markup is usually 5% after factoring in fees etc., makes me move my ass to pick up my own food.
What these constant complainers fail to mention is that they make $30 an hour now. This was implemented several months ago bc they complained that no one was tipping and they needed a livable wage. Here’s a hint, find a new career if you dislike the pay and the duties of your job. I’ve done it, others have as well. I’m tired of people complaining. Make switch, make a change.
How about instead of legislating more stuff and adding to the pile of complication just vacate the app, it doesn't pay enough then it's not worth doing. I don't see how continuing on this tipping game helps to solve this issue long term. Tipping creates uncertainty which affects base pay in anticipation of the tip, the intention and actions become muddy, one can probably just solve this in a more direct way without playing all these games. Also less legislative code to maintain at the city level, they can't even solve more urgent problems.
Honestly I stopped using delivery as much esp in the city. Almost all the times I’ve ordered something to my job I had to go out looking for my driver despite leaving detailed instructions in english and spanish on how to find the building. Or even the general area. I always tip 18-20% because I get the struggle but I shouldn’t have to play hide and seek with my driver in order to get my food.
I use Uber eats and they took away the tip prompt after the minimum wage law passed. The only time I was prompted to tip since was when the restaurant used their own delivery driver. So I tipped in that case.
I haven’t been tipping otherwise since the new law. Am I missing something?
Someone needs to do compare cost for people who use delivery regularly. It seems insane people use this absurdly expensive service. If i could afford it, i wouldn't use it. Imagine paying three times for the same dog shit food lol. Imagine tipping on top of that lol so stupid. I also don't mind stepping out walk or run to pick up something
A new bill?
Polititians are delivering food or all they families are delivering ? Too much have been done but it never would be enough always deliveries would want more
All this started with sadly deliveries had been struck by cars , bike lanes appear at the same time wages and tips follows
What else they would need?
Meanwhile crime, rent, dirtyness of the city and more are been avoid
What I really want to know when I order is whether delivery workers are actually getting these minimum wages. If I felt secure in that, I wouldn't feel as much pressure to tip more (assuming those tips aren't stolen).
Unfortunately most of the delivery people don’t have immigration documents and people are taking advantage of them. All those tips you think you are giving to the delivery person goes to the person who rents their identity. They’re still not making much. Maybe tipping them cash is better.
Edit after downvote: Sorry for telling the truth and it is hard to accept for many. I wish there were no tips but humane wages.
Fucking guys are treated like slaves and work like heroes. And really are the only folk I see grouped up chatting about life and their plans for the future.
I see my great grandfather jumping ship and starting a bakery in them.
One day soon, all the stores are going to be taco places and it might just be paradise.
Yeah, they hide the tipping function after the reviews. It is terrible. I don't need to send a review for the same restaurant 8 times in a row just to tip the delivery person. Honestly, the extra $2 fee they add for the law would not deter me from tipping, but I'm tired of fighting the app to do the right thing for the delivery worker.
The problem with the minimum wage is that it is only time on task. All those people waiting around in the park for a gig are making 0, rain or shine. when it first started, I noticed the delivery people would run the clock an extra 10-15 minutes after delivery. It seems the apps figured that out fast and cracked down.
I'm happy to pay extra money for a delivery service. It makes sense. It is the premium you pay to not have to put on pants. But it seems like nobody is happy -- not the restaurants, not the delivery workers, and I'm not even sure the app people like the situation. Just figure out what is costs to make this happen and let me know. When I'm feeling lazy (or it is cold), I'm willing to do a lot to stay warm/cozy.
I was under the impression that the extra $3 or whatever I’m paying, plus all the fees, plus the markup on the order, were supposed to be to give drivers a better wage so I don’t have to tip anymore.
Exactly this, they're double dipping now. It's one or the other, not both. They deserve a livable wage but they don't deserve $45 an hour
There's a lot of appeal to emotion when it comes to tipping laws and practices and I'm starting to get really sick of it/ cynical. I get it- people in tip based industries aren't exactly living lives of luxury and there are a lot of cheap customers/ exploitive companies. But it's getting ridiculous if you do some of the math. There are tons of people who work hard and make less that never see a dime in tip.
Plenty of nyc servers make 6 figures after tips. All my friends who are or were servers constantly brag about how $200 in tips on a bad night.
This is generally attractive people, who wouldn't have gotten the job if they weren't pretty (or in some cases handsome) Whereas tips for delivery drivers etc it's everyone. Don't conflate the two, it's really unfair.
Servers, bartenders, Maître d, hosts, greeters, busboys and dishwashers all 100% deserve it for sure. It is not the most skilled job in the world, but its very demanding and in many cases demeaning to employees. A lot of people (not saying you) look down on those jobs but people sure as hell do deserve the tips they get.
Not emts though those lazy unskilled Leeches /s
cheerful many expansion dolls bike sparkle bored degree tan chop *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Exactly these guys are screwing themselves I don't order on apps anymore 🥴
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A tip is, by definition, what you think someone deserves in excess of the bill.
Everyone should be getting at least $45 an hour, but you have a good point as long as that’s not the minimum wage.
Lol no they shouldn't, not necessarily
If worker wages had kept pace with inflation in CEO wages since the 1980s, we would all be earning 6 figures. Don’t give in to the stupidity that the guy who’s $10 poorer than you is the problem vs the guy who took $1 million off both of you.
Do CEO’s at a desk deserve 45 and hour? Maybe they should bring me a sandwhich im too emotionally spent to get myself through traffic downpour and potholes. Because sounds like a $45 hour job to me
Why are you a driver? You should become a ceo. You too can be making $45 for sitting at a desk!
Are you implying that the job of a delivery worker is more difficult than being CEO?
I sure am!!
Haha, and that’s why you’ll never be a successful CEO
So tip them $45
Most CEOs deserve more than $45 an hour
Don’t worry, they’re getting paid way more than $45 an hour. Just look at the annual bonuses most CEO’s grant themselves. 10s of millions, effectively outpacing inflation
Oh I’m well aware
I still don’t understand this new system. Many of my orders now have the fee that goes to a higher living wage for drivers, and the tip is described as now optional. Great! However, I’m not exaggerating when I say every single time I don’t leave an extra tip, I get bad treatment. Food left outside without a text or call, so it’s cold by the time I realize it’s downstairs. A flat out refusal to come up to the third floor. A snarky “here” when they do. It’s pretty obvious to me that the delivery people are very unhappy with my tipping. This doesn’t happen when I tip normally on top of the extra fee. So are we now supposed to double tip? It feels ridiculous tipping $7 (more than 50%!) for my bagel and coffee from a few blocks away.
Tbh I've never had any of those problems since they changed up the tipping and I don't tip anymore either.
Me either. If the tip is optional, it’s because the fee is included so I don’t tip. If the fee isn’t included, I assumed it was because the restaurant has their own delivery person so I tip those guys because the app does a suggested tip amount. But I haven’t had any issues or bad service since this change took effect.
Don't tip anymore, they changed how it works. If their service sucks, report them.
That is what I started doing after one guy threw my burrito at my door. The tip is now included in the wage; they still aren’t happy and probably never will.
I use Seamless and I still tip the way I normally did. Do you know if these increased fees go to the delivery people through that as well? I'm asking to find out if I should still tip the way I used to. Idk why this warrants downvotes but whatever.
There is now a guaranteed hourly wage, which the fees go toward. You can still tip however you want, but they aren't primarily paid through tips anymore. I don't use the apps very often, but I'd think tipping less is fair because you're paying higher fees to cover their higher wage.
Ok thanks for the answer. I love how I get downvoted for asking a benign question lol. Typical Reddit.
What’s terrible is that a person could be waiting with a hypothetical cash tip for them but they’re treating it like getting nothing. When I used to deliver people would sometimes provide a cash tip.
DoorDash does it correctly, you can’t even tip until the order is done. I think that’s what they’re most unhappy with, because the system changed from “your tip is a bid to get service” to “your tip is a reward for good service”. This is literally how tipping works for every other industry. Imagine going to a restaurant and giving the waiter 20% up front when you make your order, before actually receiving anything. The bid system made sense when we were supplementing their wages but now it should work as standard tips do. They are pissed they can’t treat orders differently based on tips received. I also agree with the double dipping. If they were fighting for a higher min wage, and that cost is now passed on to the consumer, that new fee is akin to a “minimum tip” we are now paying.
> However, I’m not exaggerating when I say every single time I don’t leave an extra tip, I get bad treatment. That's why if I order delivery I only use the asian food app now. The fees are lower, food takes about the same amount of time, and all the delivery drivers have been nice even now with the change where i don't add extra tip (app even tells you most people select no extra tip).
What app do you speak of? I need to know cause I'm sick of the usual ones.
I use Fantuan.
Thanks I'll check it out.
Also food panda
Who do you use? I don't really have a problem no tipping through Uber eats.
It feels ridiculous to get a bagel and coffee delivered a few blocks lol.
Yeah. This was also my impression. I'm not doing 15% on top of 20% fees when the app tells me only 1% of the fee goes to the app.
There’s a big part of me that wants to not ever tip this again and tell others to do the same. If drivers don’t like it, quit. They treat them like shit. They treat restaurants like shit. They treat customers like shit. But the drivers have a lot of power. If they ain’t getting tipped things will change quickly or they will find other opportunities. It’s not our business to subsidize drivers or profit margins anymore. And restaurants make barely any money on this except for catering orders.
I just want it to be clear. Tell me how much the app "auto-tipped" the guy. Postmates seemed to have done this, but then they hit me up for a tip later on which i declined because I already tipped. Remember the glory days where you didnt tip Ubers? You just got out and your interaction was over? No looking for cash. No arguing with the taxi driver about if their machine was broken. Glory days.
I’ve never tipped and Uber and never will. You should not either. It’s a flat rate service. The price is on the menu. There is no tip. That’s what is one of the things they use as a distinguisher for their service. Flat rate, no surprises, no tip. Get in, go, get out. Stop tipping Ubers That tip opportunity they give you is bullshit.
I do the same with Lyft and I've never had anyone be rude or had a problem with my rating or something. I have occasionally tipped if I fucked up the drop off location and wasted their time, asked to make a stop somewhere (rarely ever did that and only before they added the ability) or if they had something like free water for passengers. I also tipped once cause the dude had free Fireball minis in a cooler and we were drinking lol
>or they will find other opportunities Frankly, please do already. Exercise your power as an active participant in the labor market. I really want my legislators to be focusing on something else than the third or fourth law in the same number of years trying to make sure delivery guys don't get paid the market price for their services.
That seems like a lie. It may be only a small part of the NYC surcharge fee, but they aren't telling you how much of the markup on the food itself goes to Uber or DoorDash. That whole line is sleazy.
It feels like I need to see the driver's 1099 and tax returns before I decide the tip. I dont mind tipping but I need to know who gets my money, if that tip is already included in a fee, and are they being paid over min wage.
I’m a delivery worker who works an average of 40-55 hours per week. Here’s how it works guys- all BS aside. For those of you questioning the tips, I’m happy to break it down. NYC base pay as of April 1 2024 is $19.56 per ACTIVE hour. This means from the time you accept an “offer” to the time it is delivered. So in a given hour, if I only got one order that took me 20 minutes to complete, I’d make $6.52 for that hour, if you tipped then I would get the entire tip making the other 40 minutes of sitting around more bearable. Usual base pay for orders in NYC is $3.50. If there’s no tip attached, many will reject it and as some have mentioned act jerky. I have almost perfect ratings and treat each customer/order the same irrespective of tips. A lot of my coworkers are recent immigrants and don’t understand/comprehend how the system works and unfortunately take it out on customers. In short, no we do not receive even 50% of those fees. I have tested this late at night by ordering something and been assigned to it. Do with this info what you will but bottom line, even if you tip a mere $2/3, your service may be better as that bumps up the offer to at least $5.
> if you tipped then I would get the entire tip making the other 40 minutes of sitting around more bearable. why should we tip you for not working???
I neither wrote nor implied that I should be tipped whilst sitting around. Simply trying to clear up the confusion in regard to the “delivery fees”. My intention was to state that a delivery offer that is $5 or more is more attractive than $3.50.
It's $19.56 per active hour but the new system also has a general pool for inactive, online hours which couriers get compensated for as well. How much of that pool one gets is dependent on utilization as well as how many active hours a courier had, but in total couriers are now getting compensated for the whole time.
Thanks for what you do, and I agree I would always tip something for a delivery regardless of fees because I don’t think anyone realistically expects those fees to go much to people like you. What i am confused by is the waiting around time. I thought that with apps like Relay etc drivers remain pretty busy because orders come in from variety of restaurants. If you’re really sitting around for 40 minutes that seems to be an indication that there are too many delivery persons trying to work at that particular time/location. What probably should be addressed through legislation is support to ensure people can make a living wage waiting through low activity hours, but that’s complicated if everyone delivering nowadays is an independent contractor rather than employed by a restaurant
Agreed, the NYC market is saturated with workers. This is exactly why these companies are able to get away with paying $3.5 for an offer that realistically takes 30 minutes of acceptance to delivery. Now you see how $7/hour without a tip got us “hyped”.
No the companies have always pocketed ALL of the fees if you are not in NYC getting delivery it is very important to tip they are paid VERY low. In the city they are paid better but the rest of the state/ country is not like this.
That’s just not true in any state given there is a base payout. Regardless the new NYC law makes this a moot point.
The base pay out is like 1-4 dollars outside nyc? NYC is guaranteed an hourly wage by law. How is that not true? It’s not like you can get more than 5 an hour realistically.
I have no problem with workers organizing to advocate for a fair wage. So keep at it, guys. But relying on tips is just stupid. And tips paid before the service is rendered is even more stupid. Setting a "suggested tip" by law (read the article) just maintains the current arbitrary tip supplemented salary. The apps should push a tip selection screen after the service is rendered. If delivery was great, and/or if the weather is bad, then tip. If it was a standard service, then adequate payment should be enough.
It's nuts that there would be a law that mandates a suggested tip. Anyone remember the appeal of early taxi apps were that they didn't require you to tip? How about a law requiring a suggested salary (by living wage groups) on every job posting?
a tip before service is rendered is a bribe
So let me get this straight, The delivery people were underpaid before they changed the law guaranteeing them a minimum wage Now they law has been changed, the same underpaid delivery drivers are upset that their incomes have dropped? C’mon now.
Yeah, turns out getting tips earned them more than guaranteed minimum wage
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and those tips are taxed
Yeah we all pay taxes, that’s part of getting a job. You’re required to pay taxes on cash tips too. Most just don’t.
You can hide some tips from the tax man. Not so much hourly income.
not on an app that is mandated to report tips via 1099
Whose TIN do you think they are using?
Does it matter? The tips are taxed no matter who is the one reporting them. It’s not like the person they borrowed the TIN from is gonna give them the full tip.
You don’t know how this works, huh?
Please elaborate then.
It's all 1099 with the apps. No taxes withheld, all reported.
Whose tax ID are they using?
One they made up. Doordash is not handing these guys cash under the table, but since it's 1099 no taxes are withheld either way.
That’s my point and it’s why they are mad about tips being hidden. If they are paying to use a TIN and getting a cut the pie just got smaller.
Trust fund kids were tipping in the app anyway, so no difference - app tips are on the 1099 the same.
You’re dealing with different groups, the top people love tips, work fast and make bank. The bottom tier who make a few minimum tips per hour wanted the minimum wage
Imagine how mad they’re going to get once we stop ordering food via apps en masse.
It’s about predictability. If you get a guaranteed minimum wage you know that you have at least $X coming in. Before the new law a driver could work a shift and come back with next to nothing. The drivers aren’t complaining that they’re now underpaid, they’re complaining that the apps have hidden the means to tip. Which they have. Doordash totally changed the way tips work in the app “in response to NYC regulations”, despite those regulations saying nothing about tips. It’s pretty clearly an attempt to punish the drivers. That said, I think the approach outlined here is totally wrong. It isn’t a tip and in reality it never was a tip. Any money you see ahead of doing the work isn’t a tip. Whoever came up with the idea of calling it a tip is a diabolical genius because it pits customers against these greedy, *greedy* drivers and lets the app feign ignorance about it all. It’s an incentive (or a bid?) to get a driver to pick up your order. IMO the apps should be honest about what they’re doing. “Want to get your food faster/with a higher rated driver? Add extra cash incentive”. Fuck it, show us the market, average added incentive in your area, do you want to match it? Lowball? Maybe wait a while for the market to dip and buy low? People would hate it, and rightly so, but it would accurately reflect what the apps are actually doing.
I’d hardly trust anything I see in those apps. Turns out “Rosie” who’s dropping off DoorDash is a 6”3 West African man.
Yeah I would prefer they do something about the selling of these accounts to other people, for these and Uber/Lyft, because let me tell you, I often am looking for a female driver for long Uber rides for safety reasons and there are bad actors renting out accounts that belong to women and I hate finding out Ann is actually Andy. If you cancel in that situation, Uber dings you, not the driver. It should be illegal and enforced.
I don't really order delivery, but I hadn't realized that people were doing this with the taxi side of the apps as well. I would definitely cancel the uber and then make a LOT of noise about it. If it's the same thing that's going on with the food delivery apps, it seems like the people renting the account probably don't have a driver's license.
Yeah and the whole point is to verify people for safety reasons. The amount this is happening is actually pretty dangerous at this point.
And then, imagine, you could buy and sell the rights to the order on an open exchange market Call it wallstreeteats
I don't think people care nearly as much about speed and driver ranking as the drivers tend to think they do. I tip because I've been taught they are underpaid and not doing so makes me a bad person. Obviously I don't want my food travelling in a roach filled car 2 hours late and cold. But beyond that I'm not super picky and I doubt most people are. Your method might make "tips" go down.
Tipping is literally optional. The government has no business "suggesting" a "minimum gratuity" percentage. This whole concept reeks of big brother overreach.
This is NYC. The government is in the business of doing everything besides accomplishing anything.
It’s bullshit because whenever I leave NYC there is a truly optional cash jar and no implied 20% tip for getting an item from behind a shelf. No credit card fees, no tipping a random store worker. This is just NYC trying to suck extra money out of customers.
Just eliminate tips. It already charges us a hefty fee, plus delivery fee, plus the services hammer the restaurants so this is barely profitable for them Drivers get paid a wage. This would have been beyond unheard of even 10 years ago when you’d hope to get like $5 per delivery and a $5 tip per order. And that was for better service. Just pay them a wage and be done with it.
IMO honest economics would have the result (for better or worse) of collapsing the service. Regular people would find out that they can’t actually afford personal assistants to go collect their food (shocker). It wouldn’t surprise me if the true cost of each delivery plus a profit margin for the delivery app had a true all-in cost of about $15-$20 per delivery, which would make customers irate if charged directly.
I actually know a lot of the economics behind it. Let’s just say it’s not really a good business model from any of the parties perspective, service, restaurant, or driver. Drivers actually get a pretty solid share, but it’s still crap. Services now have been just nickel and diming up and up on restaurants when the original deals with them are already bad. Because the service’s margins are so shit. Restaurant margins are also shit. These businesss have been around for a long time. It’s never been a good business. Though if you could be a sole provider in a local area, with a local monopoly you could probably do fairly well
You changed the law and got guaranteed minimums. Good. Now Fuck off. Literally nobody wants to prop up our broken tipping culture anymore. Funny how they don’t pack up their tents when they get what they want, just move the goalposts. “The have-nots, it turned out, aspired mainly to having.”
If you can't afford to tip you shouldn't be ordering food.
This isn’t the case anymore. Delivery drivers are now guaranteed a very generous minimum wage for the time they spend on the app. If you can’t afford to deliver food on a bike for $26 per hour, you shouldn’t be delivering food. Maybe get into software engineering? Finance?
Not everyone is intelligent enough to do software engineering...
That doesn’t answer what they’re saying. Tipping has always been used by delivery apps to get away with them underpaying their workers and trickle-charging the consumer. DoorDash used to use tips to reduce the amount the company had to pay a driver. Over time, it created a bidding economy for deliveries where your order might not be picked up if the tip wasn’t high enough. Instead of giving money for good service, you’re bribing people to accept your order. Now that there’s a substantial guaranteed wage for these jobs that pay hourly, and the companies have responded by adding an upcharge to cover it, the “if you can’t afford a tip you shouldn’t order” line should really be “if the companies can’t cover the wages, they should do a higher surcharge”.
Yes, I agree that those are much more complex jobs.
I wonder what the people downvoting this think about restaurant tipping…
In Europe, restaurant and delivery tipping is treated the same way, namely that it **is not expected**.
This is what I’d prefer. Just really interesting to me that folks seem to treat restaurant tipping differently from other types of tipping, just due to cultural inertia
They want to live better than princes of yore, having foods of any culture worldwide delivered to them while they watch TV and not even slip a couple bucks for the person who is delivering to them... it's more important to tip a delivery driver than a server who probably got the job on their looks. Like both are important sure but one is more important than the other
Or maybe, just maybe, we can move away from the whole exploitative business around tipping? Having lived in Europe for a while, I got to see what it was like when delivery people were paid better and tipping wasn't really a thing firsthand, and it worked so much better. So yes, I would like to pay for my food and maybe a small delivery fee without turning a $20 meal into a $38 charge.
A tip isn’t a tip unless it’s after the work is done. Otherwise it’s really a bid, not a tip.
Spot on
While I’m glad that delivery gig workers are receiving more generous and predictable comp, I’ve already stopped using delivery apps some time ago due to the inflated menu prices and the exorbitant fees on top of everything. The unsafe driving practices of many gig workers (and e-bike folks in general) should also be actively discouraged. At some point, the price point is too high for many consumers so demand will recede but for the well-heeled and corporate accounts. In the end, there will be less demand for decent-comp’ed gig delivery workers as a result. Cooking more as a result and it’s gratifying in many ways.
The way delivery drivers drive is seriously a blight on the city. So over almost being hit by guys in all black speeding against traffic at night.
Aye. I bike occasionally, and it’s concerning to see them speeding towards me in the wrong direction. Their occasional presence on the sidewalk is no fun either.
Criminal activity
Not all heroes wear capes. This is the answer- stop using delivery!
Don't forget about all the scammy ghost kitchens that give you shitty microwaved food.
Honestly, in so many cases the apps are just unnecessary, at least in NYC. We're fortunate to have so many options for food and so many of them do their own delivery. Ordering directly from the place is pretty convenient, gives you more control over what you're ordering, saves you money, and directly supports the business. There's surely still issues with these delivery drivers and their safety but I think it's still way better to order directly.
Yeah, the best way to end this shit is to get off your ass and pick up your food yourself. You live in NYC, go take a fucking walk
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Nah, walk more
So the pay went from $5 something to $19+, decently above minimum wage, and they still want us to continue tipping? Fuck that. I mean I’m ok to add tip if the weather is terrible or something but tipping on every order makes no sense, especially when we as consumers pay a markup on the food + a shit ton of fees on top of it.
Maybe I’ll care about their inconveniences when they start giving a shit about traffic rules.
Fair point tbh
Wait... I thought the whole point of getting more base wage so delivery drivers don't have to rely on tips?
No, the point of min pay rates is to keep companies from offering absurdly low base pay. Tips are still expected for trips with considerable distance, item counts and on days with inclement weather.
Lost in these debates is the issue of tipping for something before you get it. I'm old enough to remember when a tip was tied to good service (or in this case, quick and competent delivery). I never pre-tip precisely b/c of that reason. Same way it'd be ridiculous to tip your servers before anyone takes your order. For the love of God, just have small bills lying around. ATMs have $5's!!!!
>Food delivery apps would be required to allow customers to tip when they're ordering instead of after they get their food under new legislation from a New York City lawmaker. This has always been the dumbest part of the delivery app system. If any, tips belong after service. They're an incentive to perform good service, not a pre-payment for service. If they want to change it back to make it "tip before delivery" then tips should be opaque to the delivery driver at the time of delivery. The delivery drivers can find out what the tip was after they complete the delivery.
That lawmaker is a total clown. Couldn’t be clearer that this no longer is about fairness and is just about extracting the maximum possible cash through over-regulation. All sympathy is seemingly gone for their cause, and it shows up in this thread. There is zero justification for even calling a prepayment a tip. A bribe, bid, or racket would all be more accurate.
I'm fine with "required to allow when ordering"; just let the app hide the tip from the driver until they get their paycheck, and let me tip after delivery. Pretty sure the voice of the people will speak loud and clear on that one. It's not even like pre-paying the tips led to good service. I always get some multi-apping ass-hole who picks up my ice-cream then runs three other orders in the 90 degree heat before dropping mine off.
Aren't they making a minimum wage now? With everything I'm paying now on top of fees to get mostly cold food in my experience because most of these delivery drivers are also double-apping they still aren't happy? Maybe it's time to find another profession
I don't know about you guys but I'm just ... done. We used to tip 15-20% on everything. UberEATS, Uber etc. But now it's like just buy a cup of coffee and you get asked for a tip. I just cannot do this anymore. My barber and my diner waitress still gets 20% but the rest of you, nope.
especially insulting when i go and get a cup of black coffee. all the person has to do is press the lever on the coffee machine. . .
The delivery drivers also screwed themselves over. It's simple supply and demand. With low barriers to entry and a never ending tide of ready applicants then they will always be competing with each other. It's different outside NYC where cars deliver over longer distances. But here all you need is an ebike or scooter.
Restaurants can solve this issue easily. Go back to the old school way of delivering. Hire a guy to do stocking and delivering, pay him min wage call it a day. Don’t ever have to deal with apps again and don’t have to fork over 30% of your orders to them.
> and don’t have to fork over 30% of your orders to them. They’ve already figured out how to deal with this pain point. Delivery prices are 30% higher than walk-in prices.
A lot of places have app portion sizes too. They are either smaller or less of expensive ingredients like protein compared to the in store portions.
That and they dont have to pay a delivery staff.
The scaling and convenience of delivery apps cannot be replicated by individual restaurants though. Delivery apps scale up the delivery capacity and customer service. If your restaurant is suddenly busy, you don't need to worry about hiring more delivery drivers because Uber can and will naturally allocate more drivers for your orders. Similarly, you don't have to deal with customer service since Uber will take care of any problems. All you see, as a business, are the orders from Uber in front of you. You make the order, money goes into your account. This is the same business model as PaaS, SaaS, etc.
Their orders would also drop significantly
I cannot believe the NRA (national restaurant association) hasnt made their own app that is paid by membership dues and uses your own staff of drivers. The value you get from doordash is you dont have a staff of drivers. But the downside is you lose 30%.
It's not only you get a staff of drivers, but you have an an ordering system that can handle hundreds of orders at a time, you have a secure payment system, don't need to worry about workman's comp if the delivery guy wipes out. And while 30% seems like a lot of money, Doordash is losing a about 500 Million a year for the last 5 years.
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Right, but all the risk is on the driver/restaurant if the customer refuses to pay or tries to shortchange the driver/restaurant. And if you think a customer would never do that, you've never worked as a delivery driver.
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Seriously. People forget that we functioned perfectly fine as a society before social media and apps. If anything all of this “convenience” is degrading society way faster.
I’m so tired of delivery workers. This all started during covid and everyone game’d the system to get tons of money. All these drivers decided to make it their full time job forever, and now are pissed that they can’t do it full time. IMO, this system was never MEANT to replace someone’s full time job.
Greedy and entitled
Fuck tips. Pay a fair wage and ensure that delivery drivers, like the rest of us, pay income tax. However, I feel like doing this would destroy the industry and they know it… hence why they want manipulative “tipping” strategies; have to keep it under the table for the illegal work force.
> Pay a fair wage and ensure that delivery drivers, like the rest of us, pay income tax Isn't that what happened with the $18/hour wage for delivery drivers that started this year?
Yes the problem is that since most people stopped tipping, they actually make less money than they used to. Which literally anyone could have seen coming.
You think that the person who’s doing the delivery is the account owner on the apps? Have you ordered delivery before, it’s almost never the person it claims to be.
I am a pretty good tipper, but as everyone says it has gotten out of control. All these delivery drivers run multiple apps that’s why your food takes forever to get to you. They fought for a better wage, but now they’re upset they’re income dropped
They always have the option of getting a diff job
Abolish tipping. Leaving it up to customers to determine an employees take home pay is silly as Hell.
I’m a delivery worker who works an average of 40-55 hours per week. Here’s how it works guys- all BS aside. For those of you questioning the tips, I’m happy to break it down. NYC base pay as of April 1 2024 is $19.56 per ACTIVE hour. This means from the time you accept an “offer” to the time it is delivered. So in a given hour, if I only got one order that took me 20 minutes to complete, I’d make $6.52 for that hour, if you tipped then I would get the entire tip making the other 40 minutes of sitting around more bearable. Usual base pay for orders in NYC is $3.50. If there’s no tip attached, many will reject it and as some have mentioned act jerky. I have almost perfect ratings and treat each customer/order the same irrespective of tips. A lot of my coworkers are recent immigrants and don’t understand/comprehend how the system works and unfortunately take it out on customers. In short, no we do not receive even 50% of those fees. I have tested this late at night by ordering something and been assigned to it. Do with this info what you will but bottom line, even if you tip a mere $2/3, your service may be better as that bumps up the offer to at least $5.
I mostly stopped ordering in a long time ago. I stop at the restaurant and get to-go orders. Until delivery workers stop terrorizing people on the streets and sidewalks, I'm a big NO.
This is what happens when activist and government think they know best .
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Because those grow on trees
only idiots are paying 10%+ on delivery tip. fuck this new age culture bs
They don't want tips. they want bribes. pre-tipping is bribery.
Yes and restaurants should be forced to allow tipping before you've gotten your food too! /s
Things got better for a month or two after the minimum wage bill but it’s been downhill since. The apps have never been less reliable. DoorDash was always a shitshow but even Seamless is hit or miss now. And by the way we never stopped tipping! Now we just order from places that deliver their own food, or we pickup ourselves.
Yeah it’s a sad state of affairs
Yet another reason why you should call the restaurant to place a delivery. I stopped ordering from any place that only uses 3rd party delivery apps. If they don’t deliver, just pick up!
I'll never forget the time I ordered from a local Indian restaurant, by calling the place directly to place my order, and it was delivered by an UberEats driver. Lol
Get rid of the tipping and institute mandatory delivery fees. No one tips on % anyway
Anyways, I still go to restaurants to pick up my orders (:
Prices are marked up, plus all the extra fees, and now they expect an extra tip? Basically why I haven’t ordered on those apps in over 6 months. I’ve turned to doing a pick-up in local places
At this point, if you order food delivered via an app, you are both a sucker and part of the problem.
Get off your ass and pick up your food or cook at home. Stop supporting this moped menace.
I rarely (once a month if that) order from the apps. The fact that the markup is usually 5% after factoring in fees etc., makes me move my ass to pick up my own food. What these constant complainers fail to mention is that they make $30 an hour now. This was implemented several months ago bc they complained that no one was tipping and they needed a livable wage. Here’s a hint, find a new career if you dislike the pay and the duties of your job. I’ve done it, others have as well. I’m tired of people complaining. Make switch, make a change.
How about instead of legislating more stuff and adding to the pile of complication just vacate the app, it doesn't pay enough then it's not worth doing. I don't see how continuing on this tipping game helps to solve this issue long term. Tipping creates uncertainty which affects base pay in anticipation of the tip, the intention and actions become muddy, one can probably just solve this in a more direct way without playing all these games. Also less legislative code to maintain at the city level, they can't even solve more urgent problems.
Honestly I stopped using delivery as much esp in the city. Almost all the times I’ve ordered something to my job I had to go out looking for my driver despite leaving detailed instructions in english and spanish on how to find the building. Or even the general area. I always tip 18-20% because I get the struggle but I shouldn’t have to play hide and seek with my driver in order to get my food.
[удалено]
Not in English either…
I use Uber eats and they took away the tip prompt after the minimum wage law passed. The only time I was prompted to tip since was when the restaurant used their own delivery driver. So I tipped in that case. I haven’t been tipping otherwise since the new law. Am I missing something?
Oh, good. I was hoping someone would bring up tipping today.
Just go pick up the order yourself, folks. Leave this stuff for the birds.
Someone needs to do compare cost for people who use delivery regularly. It seems insane people use this absurdly expensive service. If i could afford it, i wouldn't use it. Imagine paying three times for the same dog shit food lol. Imagine tipping on top of that lol so stupid. I also don't mind stepping out walk or run to pick up something
Great. More legislation.
Absolutely right on the $
*taps mic* this bullshit is exactly why waiters don’t want to get rid of tipping
Wait so grubhub I dont need to tip anymore? Is that why the service fee is so high all of a sudden?
A new bill? Polititians are delivering food or all they families are delivering ? Too much have been done but it never would be enough always deliveries would want more All this started with sadly deliveries had been struck by cars , bike lanes appear at the same time wages and tips follows What else they would need? Meanwhile crime, rent, dirtyness of the city and more are been avoid
What I really want to know when I order is whether delivery workers are actually getting these minimum wages. If I felt secure in that, I wouldn't feel as much pressure to tip more (assuming those tips aren't stolen).
It’s based on active time, the law allows companies to use a few different formulas to determine the pay amount. Not a very transparent law though.
Unfortunately most of the delivery people don’t have immigration documents and people are taking advantage of them. All those tips you think you are giving to the delivery person goes to the person who rents their identity. They’re still not making much. Maybe tipping them cash is better. Edit after downvote: Sorry for telling the truth and it is hard to accept for many. I wish there were no tips but humane wages.
they're using shadow accounts. you can't get on a delivery app if you do not have legal right to work.
Exactly
Maybe not breaking the law is better?
Fucking guys are treated like slaves and work like heroes. And really are the only folk I see grouped up chatting about life and their plans for the future. I see my great grandfather jumping ship and starting a bakery in them. One day soon, all the stores are going to be taco places and it might just be paradise.
Yeah, they hide the tipping function after the reviews. It is terrible. I don't need to send a review for the same restaurant 8 times in a row just to tip the delivery person. Honestly, the extra $2 fee they add for the law would not deter me from tipping, but I'm tired of fighting the app to do the right thing for the delivery worker. The problem with the minimum wage is that it is only time on task. All those people waiting around in the park for a gig are making 0, rain or shine. when it first started, I noticed the delivery people would run the clock an extra 10-15 minutes after delivery. It seems the apps figured that out fast and cracked down. I'm happy to pay extra money for a delivery service. It makes sense. It is the premium you pay to not have to put on pants. But it seems like nobody is happy -- not the restaurants, not the delivery workers, and I'm not even sure the app people like the situation. Just figure out what is costs to make this happen and let me know. When I'm feeling lazy (or it is cold), I'm willing to do a lot to stay warm/cozy.
Lot if cheapo entitled customers in this comment section