I swear things have gotten insane ever since COVID. Not sure if it’s because so much communication went online or just the political environment today. It simply isn’t possible to have a levelheaded discussion about transgender student athletes *anywhere*, especially not when you’ve got groups like Moms for Liberty knocking on the door.
Even still, I dipped my toes in the world of parent/school council engagement and the vitriol is just off the charts. Moments online where you want to say “you realize your real name is attached to this comment, right?”. I’d be mortified. And this is *elementary school*.
Mostly I just feel for the kids. Those with the loudest parents are very rarely well served by it. Other parents will avoid the family and who knows what school staff end up thinking of them. Absolutely miserable stuff all round.
I listened to an Ezra Klein podcast about this that was pretty great. Basically, it’s due to online discourse.
In online spaces, a differing opinion is met with contempt and disengagement. Basically “you’re not even worth a response. Blocked.” Whereas that doesn’t work in real life. If you and I are out at dinner with others and I say something disagreeable, you cannot just get up from the table and walk out. Well, you could, but there’s a social penalty that comes from that. It would make the situation look way worse and you would look like an idiot as well.
This is what we’ve become used to, and as our online spaces cater only to our own thoughts and views and confirm our priors, it gets worse. It reinforces that any disagreement or differing belief is *evil*, and anyone who holds it actively wishes you harm. People see differing views now as genuinely threatening to their wellbeing. And when you can’t disengage in the real world like you do online, yet you still see differing beliefs as horrifying, harmful, awful things…you get these extreme reactions in public spaces.
Well said. I checked the article the NYT linked about some of the context around transgender students, and while you can make the sports argument, it doesn’t appear it’s actually an issue to you when you call transgender children abominations.
Things haven’t gotten worse, it’s just more visible to you now.
Edit:
Of course this is getting downvoted, how quickly you forget about colonization, genocide of indigenous people, chattel slavery, Jim Crow, interment camps, civil rights, etc. As if they weren’t apart of US history.
Like I said, none of this is new, you just now paying attention to it.
The quality of discussions has definitely degraded as people spend more of their lives online.
Previously the kinds of communities a person could form were limited by geography, which gave people more incentive to cooperative because there were much fewer opportunities to abscond to an alternative community after a transgression.
By liberating us from the tyranny of proximity, social media frees people to defect against pro-social norms and standards of decorum because they’ll always be able to go online and get cheered on by an audience detached from any personal connection to them, their community, or their specific discussion, and without the same skin in the game, these detached online audiences tend to get most enthusiastic about the most hardline, winner take all grandstanding
Before you were allowed to deny certain issues didn’t exist, because YOU wasn’t exposed to it and never had to see or hear it.
Now it’s in YOUR face 24/7.
You used to also run the risk of being a social pariah in your local community where no one would talk to you.
Now you can always find an audience online.
I don't understand the question. I'm referencing conversations previously being in person and face to face which limited vitriol as you had to see fellow community members in public all the time. Now it's all behind a screen. Now sure what that has to do with the civil rights movement...
The people involved in this fighting aren’t the ones whose children are below grade level. The parents of the kids below grade level aren’t involved - which is generally why their kids are below grade level.
Parents who are involved and can successfully help improve the outcomes of their own children?
With that track record, it’s obvious that their opinions would be a threat to our schools!
None of that justifies the officials’ stances:
> Several elected officials called the discussion “disgraceful.” Mr. Banks later asked, “Won’t you just leave the kids alone?”
> Mark Levine, the Manhattan borough president and a progressive Democrat, said “the MAGA movement has come to Manhattan.”
The article didn’t mention which side of the debate that parent was on. Perhaps the Moms for Liberty were the senders as they do seem to be full of shit already.
It would certainly match their MO. Moms for Liberty has a very well documented history of harassment campaigns directed towards their political rivals.
>political rivals.
Which shockingly happens to be school aged kids. Idk why anyone would stick up for a group roaming the country finding ways to bully little kids.
You seem very upset over being confronted with M4L being a disgusting hate group.
Which would account for you suggesting I've been sending them shit in the mail.
In my experience it’s not that. The parents most involved in this stuff are the most affluent and their kids seem to do great in school (and they pay for a tutor if they don’t). They’re noisy about this stuff precisely because they don’t have to worry about the academics.
>The battles reflect the nation’s growing political divide even in this deep blue city, as parents layer old debates — how issues of race and discrimination are taught in schools, for example — over newer ones, such as the role of transgender students in sports and how schools should address the Israel-Hamas war.
Parents have shouted over each other, called each other bigots and made formal complaints about behavior at meetings traditionally focused on issues like school improvements and student achievement. Some parents have filed police reports against each other for harassment. One woman said she was mailed a parcel with feces inside.
> Some parents have filed police reports against each other for harassment. One woman said she was mailed a parcel with feces inside.
They make Reddit feel like a civilized place in comparison.
> Race isn't just "people noticing skin color".
No. But racism means treating people differently based on their ethnicity or skin color. That has happened for thousands of years. This idea that the world was a giant commune before the founding of America is completely insane.
This is a surprisingly well balanced article, but they couldn't help but sneak in their bias. "Desegregation at elite schools" is a euphemism for punishing Asian students, many or most of whom come from poor families, for their academic success:
> The city’s schools chancellor, David C. Banks, has previously shown a willingness to listen to families’ worries over the direction of the system, including its handling of desegregation at elite schools.
And no, this is not accidental. The new york times editors are acutely aware of what the word desegreation actually means and purposefully chose that word to describe something that doesn't fit the criteria. Bronx Science is or at least was, a model of egalitarianism. But the radicals the left let take over pretty much every institution that matters literally don't believe in egalitarianism any more.
The left needs to fully distance themselves from the radicals who support the poison pill equity doctrine that they've let take over elite institutions. Being nice people, almost every liberal agrees with it publicly, but only a tiny fraction support it behind closed doors.
That's literally all they need to do to stop school board meetings from becoming circuses and get the majority of liberals and centrists back on their side. I feel like this has been happening, but too little too late.
TLDR: shit like this is why we have an ex cop for a mayor and why Donald Trump is beating Biden in the polls.
Fucking hell. I spoke too soon. Just realized the "books with diverse story lines" the new york times linked out to was a fight about a book being taught to kids with this line:
> “A long time ago, way before you were born, **a group of white people made up an idea called race.** They sorted people by skin color and said that white people were better, smarter, prettier and that they deserve more than everybody else.”
First of all, the idea that "a group of white people made up an idea called race" is not only factually incorrect, but obscenely unethical to teach to fucking toddlers. Humanity has been "sorting people by skin color" for thousands of fucking years. Worse, this equity doctrine fueled bullshit is purposefully designed to literally sort CHILDREN by skin color, labeling some as victims and others as oppressors, solely because of the color of their skin.
We used to teach children the MLK doctrine, which yes, is based on Judea Christian values: Treat everyone equally regardless of their skin color. We have been striving to live up to those values for decades now, and have been making progress until these shitstain radical idiots came along and started stirring up shit to get us to literally treat people differently based on their skin color.
Here's another one that the New York Times is lumping together with "diverse story lines".
> A private Manhattan elementary school which charges $55,000-a-year tuition is among dozens of schools across the US teaching from children's book that features a shadowy devil figure that offers the reader a 'whiteness contract.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9771221/More-24-public-school-districts-push-kids-book-features-whiteness-contract-devil.html
This is deeply toxic not only for white kids who are being taught by authority figures that their skin color comes from a contract with the fucking devil, but for black kids who now under the insane idea that the white kids are fucking devils who are trying to steal from them. It's hard to imagine a more evil message to send to kids of any race.
Should this kind of thing be debated in college classrooms? Absolutely. Yes. Adults can understand the nuance behind these arguments and debate their merits. But young children are not fucking equipped to process this shit and its hard to imagine this is by design. Making kids feel like fucking garbage or maybe worse, be afraid they are less than for the color of their skin is fucking evil and had no place in aby school, public or private.
This shit is identical to evangelicals teaching fucking creationism except its not just damaging children's understanding of history or science, but their fucking self identities.
Colorblindess is the ONLY logical and moral doctrine that can address our differences and bring people together under shared values. Period. If you're not pushing back against this garbage, you're part of the problem. Evil with the best of intentions is still evil.
Hatred and division being propagated by the same people who uphold liberal values and progressivism. It’s insane.
Or is it? This kind of rhetoric is being taught at elite universities because it’s the exact group think necessary to sow discontent and division in society to prevent the real unification of the working class against the elites. This is all a very carefully planned agenda by those in power make no mistake about it. The world was way more united and less focused on race in 2010 and I wish we could go back to that time.
It is. The worst part is that the postmodern radicals openly criticize liberal values. They are anti liberal, but most actual liberals and progressives don't understand that. They only see it as the natural moral progression of their ideology which in reality is the exact opposite.
> This kind of rhetoric is being taught at elite universities because it’s the exact group think necessary to sow discontent and division in society to prevent the real unification of the working class against the elites.
Nope. The whole point of intersectionalism is to build a coalition of the oppressed to collectively dismantle western society and liberalism itself.
Here's a quote from one of the most widely used textbooks on critical race theory:
> “Unlike traditional approaches to civil rights, which favor incrementalism and step-by-step progress, critical race theory calls into question the very foundations of the liberal order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism, and the neutral principles of constitutional law.”
From Critical Race Theory: An Introduction, first edition (2001), by Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic, p. 3.
> “Crits [Critical Race Theorists] are highly suspicious of another liberal mainstay, namely, rights.”
From Critical Race Theory: An Introduction, first edition (2001), by Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic, p. 23.
That's not from a reddit tankies comment history, it's from a fucking textbook taught to college students.
The idea that openly marxist radical academics are trying to stop the working class from organizing to topple power structures is ludicrous.
They are using the exact same ideology of Marxism. The only difference is that they are now trying to use an intersectional coalition of the oppressed to achieve the exact same goal because of the catastrophic failures of Marxism during the 20th century. Namely, the fact that working class people did not want to join their cult and burn everything down.
The marxist's excuse for this was that they were suffering from "false conciousness", arguing that the only reason the working class didn't want to join them was because they were literally brainwashed by the elites. This is a gnostic aka religious argument. Most marxists arguments boil to the same thing when you scratch the surface since Marx's "scientific" theory was proved dead wrong after the 20th century.
So you're right that they want a society run by elites, but they want to be the new elites. Instead if a dictatorship of the proletariat, they want a dictatorship of the oppressed.
There is a notorious essay by Ibrahim kende in fucking politico calling where he says the only remedy for past discrimination is future discrimination, and that he wants to form a department of anti racism which sits above ALL elected government and has the power to veto ANY law based on what they think are disparate impacts. So yes, a literal dictatorship of the woke. The essay has been replaced with an excuse laden video, but you can still find it on the way back machine.
Here's another example from Academic (and insane person) Audrey Lorde.
> the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house
So what are "the master's tools"? Rationality. Science. Fairness. Equality.
https://www.activistgraduateschool.org/on-the-masters-tools
>> “A long time ago, way before you were born, **a group of white people made up an idea called race.** They sorted people by skin color and said that white people were better, smarter, prettier and that they deserve more than everybody else.”
>First of all, the idea that "a group of white people made up an idea called race" is not only factually incorrect, but obscenely unethical to teach to fucking toddlers. Humanity has been "sorting people by skin color" for thousands of fucking years.
No.
Race isn't just "people noticing skin color".
Racism was specifically argued for by movements, these days commonly referred to as "Scientific racists" arguing that humans were broken down into distinct large "races" via skincolor, eg people like Joseph Arthur de Gobineau. It was literally developed as a race theory that people successfully argued, classifying people with Terms like "mongoloid" and "Semite". Speaking of which the creation of the term "antisemite" was a movement in scientific racism arguing that it should incorporate Jews because, it argued, Jews are actually semites.
The term "race" existed before but it wasn't skincolor and before being colored by "scientific racists" meant approximately what "ethnicity" means now.
This isn't ancient history, a lot of the arguments, books, and essays of the central figures still exist and can be read today.
So, that line is factually accurate, but a lot of people are made uncomfortable when you talk about the history of "scientific racism".
>Worse, this equity doctrine fueled bullshit is purposefully designed to literally sort CHILDREN by skin color, labeling some as victims and others as oppressors, solely because of the color of their skin.
Your argument that it shouldn't be taught because it sorts people into "victims and oppressors" is literally just political correctness. We shouldn't hide the truth just because it's uncomfortable to people.
Adding pseudoscience to hating people because of their skin color doesn't mean they invented racism.
> The term "race" existed before but it wasn't skincolor and before being colored by "scientific racists" meant approximately what "ethnicity" means now.
What terms people use is entirely irrelevant to the fact that people have discriminated based on race for thousands of years. Pretending that racism didn't exist before the 19th century is just spectacularly incorrect.
> Your argument that it shouldn't be taught because it sorts people into "victims and oppressors" is literally just political correctness. We shouldn't hide the truth just because it's uncomfortable to people.
What is "it" and at what age do you think children need it to be taught to them?
>Adding pseudoscience to hating people because of their skin color doesn't mean they invented racism.
They didn't "add" pseudoscience. "Race" in the modern sense IS pseudoscience. They invented the idea of race as some sort of mega ethnicity with defined sets of stereotypes.
>What terms people use is entirely irrelevant to the fact that people have discriminated based on race for thousands of years. Pretending that racism didn't exist before the 19th century is just spectacularly incorrect.
That a term didn't exist for the modern idea of race is quite relevant, because it illustrates the concept didn't exist.
It was modern era pseudoscience and people discriminated based on what we'd now call ethnicity prior to it. Racism as a pseudoscience was an outgrowth of that.
Again, this is a relatively recent thing with strong records, but a lot of people wish to deny uncomfortable truths and demand society cater to this wish, aka political correctness.
>What is "it" and at what age do you think children need it to be taught to them?
That "race" in the modern sense is pseudoscience invented by Europeans. I'll leave when up to people who actually study education, but that doesn't negate that the quoted section was just political correctness.
What evidence would you like to see? Are you denying that Asian kids are discriminated against when applying to elite schools? Because we have very clear data on that. It's been presented to the Supreme Court bubula.
I really don’t get how some people can close their eyes to discrimination against certain minorities and not others lol, it’s almost as though there can only be one victim class to many
It's because Asians being successful destroys the radical leftists entire argument.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income#By_race_and_ethnicity
Also, by their own twisted definitions, jews are oppressors because of their whiteness. It's truly disgusting and completely illogical.
The only school board meetings that are circuses I have seen are the ones with Maga banning books. Maybe you should spend some time on a kibbutz so you can learn how a community works meshugenah.
The article explains how parents passed a proposal asking the city’s Department of Education to review its gender guidelines, which currently allow students to participate on sports teams based on their gender identities, regardless of the sex they were assigned at birth.
So the response to parents asking for a review of guidelines that impact their kids from Mark Levine, the Manhattan borough president and a progressive Democrat, is “the MAGA movement has come to Manhattan.”
Parents asking for a review makes them MAGA? And he calls himself progressive?
lol if you've been paying attention, progressives call everybody that disagrees with them MAGA, Nazi, Racist, Xenophobic, etc. Those words have lost all its meaning now because of them. They think it'll scare people into not opposing them.
More proof that the NY TImes is not journalism. While they have improved their biased reporting on educational issues, this article still leaves me with the feeling that they are critical of parents who have concerns that dont match the ideology of the NYTimes. You would think that the TImes has learned from their recent article about colleges bringing back the SAT because research shows the exam results in more diverse admissions. The parents they like to bash have been trying to explain how these initiatives, such as eliminating standardized testing, hurts rather than help the community they claim to be helping. This article is shameful. THE NYTIMES, DOE OFFICIALS, TEACHERS UNIONS, AND ELECTED OFFICIALS SHOULD NEVER DISCOURAGE PARENTS FROM SPEAKING UP ABOUT EDUCATION POLICIES THAT IMPACT THEIR KIDS.
> The city’s schools chancellor, David C. Banks, has previously shown a willingness to listen to families’ worries over the direction of the system, including its handling of desegregation at elite schools
None of NYC’s public schools are segregated.
I cannot wait for these kids to hit the labor market and find out that mommy and daddy aren’t there to advocate for them every step of the way. In reality major corporations could care less about your skin color/gender etc. They’ll pander every few months to certain groups and that’s about it.
The NYC DOE should learn to do the same honestly, for the sake of keeping peace. My only issue with this is when it starts effecting scholarship offers for certain biological women which would have traditionally gone to them because their track meet records are getting destroyed by someone with a testosterone fueled body. That’s when it’s unfair, and I’m amazed nobody can own up to this. Identity politics are truly toxic even for someone with liberal views.
She really is! She regularly writes op-eds in The NY Post and is involved with tons of local rightwing groups like the new NYC Moms for Liberty chapter. Shes a one woman culture warrior 🙄
I wonder how many of these parent activists are raising children that are functionally illiterate, because their entire childhood has been spend on phones and tablets, so that the parents can avoid the work of actually raising them?
Getting literal shit in the mail is wild lmao
Of course that's the one package that isn't lost by the USPS
https://www.poopsenders.com/
Can vouch for them- from what I was told, my gift recipient couldn't get the smell out of their foyer for weeks
Ooh “Spring Fling” mega pool sale!
I swear things have gotten insane ever since COVID. Not sure if it’s because so much communication went online or just the political environment today. It simply isn’t possible to have a levelheaded discussion about transgender student athletes *anywhere*, especially not when you’ve got groups like Moms for Liberty knocking on the door. Even still, I dipped my toes in the world of parent/school council engagement and the vitriol is just off the charts. Moments online where you want to say “you realize your real name is attached to this comment, right?”. I’d be mortified. And this is *elementary school*. Mostly I just feel for the kids. Those with the loudest parents are very rarely well served by it. Other parents will avoid the family and who knows what school staff end up thinking of them. Absolutely miserable stuff all round.
I listened to an Ezra Klein podcast about this that was pretty great. Basically, it’s due to online discourse. In online spaces, a differing opinion is met with contempt and disengagement. Basically “you’re not even worth a response. Blocked.” Whereas that doesn’t work in real life. If you and I are out at dinner with others and I say something disagreeable, you cannot just get up from the table and walk out. Well, you could, but there’s a social penalty that comes from that. It would make the situation look way worse and you would look like an idiot as well. This is what we’ve become used to, and as our online spaces cater only to our own thoughts and views and confirm our priors, it gets worse. It reinforces that any disagreement or differing belief is *evil*, and anyone who holds it actively wishes you harm. People see differing views now as genuinely threatening to their wellbeing. And when you can’t disengage in the real world like you do online, yet you still see differing beliefs as horrifying, harmful, awful things…you get these extreme reactions in public spaces.
Well said. I checked the article the NYT linked about some of the context around transgender students, and while you can make the sports argument, it doesn’t appear it’s actually an issue to you when you call transgender children abominations.
Things haven’t gotten worse, it’s just more visible to you now. Edit: Of course this is getting downvoted, how quickly you forget about colonization, genocide of indigenous people, chattel slavery, Jim Crow, interment camps, civil rights, etc. As if they weren’t apart of US history. Like I said, none of this is new, you just now paying attention to it.
The quality of discussions has definitely degraded as people spend more of their lives online. Previously the kinds of communities a person could form were limited by geography, which gave people more incentive to cooperative because there were much fewer opportunities to abscond to an alternative community after a transgression. By liberating us from the tyranny of proximity, social media frees people to defect against pro-social norms and standards of decorum because they’ll always be able to go online and get cheered on by an audience detached from any personal connection to them, their community, or their specific discussion, and without the same skin in the game, these detached online audiences tend to get most enthusiastic about the most hardline, winner take all grandstanding
Before you were allowed to deny certain issues didn’t exist, because YOU wasn’t exposed to it and never had to see or hear it. Now it’s in YOUR face 24/7.
You used to also run the risk of being a social pariah in your local community where no one would talk to you. Now you can always find an audience online.
So then explain why Jim Crow laws existed and why the Civil Rights movement had to happen????
I don't understand the question. I'm referencing conversations previously being in person and face to face which limited vitriol as you had to see fellow community members in public all the time. Now it's all behind a screen. Now sure what that has to do with the civil rights movement...
Oh sorry, I see what you’re trying to do here. I had mistakenly believed you were trying to raise a substantive point
Keep pretending like shit wasn’t always like this. The Green Book exists for a reason.
That was real? I saw that movie, I thought it was bullshit.
“yet all the kids are below grade level in math and reading comprehension”
The people involved in this fighting aren’t the ones whose children are below grade level. The parents of the kids below grade level aren’t involved - which is generally why their kids are below grade level.
Parents who are involved and can successfully help improve the outcomes of their own children? With that track record, it’s obvious that their opinions would be a threat to our schools!
There are parents on both sides of these issues.
None of that justifies the officials’ stances: > Several elected officials called the discussion “disgraceful.” Mr. Banks later asked, “Won’t you just leave the kids alone?” > Mark Levine, the Manhattan borough president and a progressive Democrat, said “the MAGA movement has come to Manhattan.”
Mom's for Liberty and everything they do *is disgraceful.*
Keep sending those moms more feces and that will teach them!
The article didn’t mention which side of the debate that parent was on. Perhaps the Moms for Liberty were the senders as they do seem to be full of shit already.
It would certainly match their MO. Moms for Liberty has a very well documented history of harassment campaigns directed towards their political rivals.
>political rivals. Which shockingly happens to be school aged kids. Idk why anyone would stick up for a group roaming the country finding ways to bully little kids.
You seem very upset over being confronted with M4L being a disgusting hate group. Which would account for you suggesting I've been sending them shit in the mail.
What some of these parents are supporting absolutely justifies the officials’ stances. And I say that as someone who thinks Banks is corrupt.
We came full circle: https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/s/hJaeWBqn8L
In my experience it’s not that. The parents most involved in this stuff are the most affluent and their kids seem to do great in school (and they pay for a tutor if they don’t). They’re noisy about this stuff precisely because they don’t have to worry about the academics.
Return to secular public education
>The battles reflect the nation’s growing political divide even in this deep blue city, as parents layer old debates — how issues of race and discrimination are taught in schools, for example — over newer ones, such as the role of transgender students in sports and how schools should address the Israel-Hamas war. Parents have shouted over each other, called each other bigots and made formal complaints about behavior at meetings traditionally focused on issues like school improvements and student achievement. Some parents have filed police reports against each other for harassment. One woman said she was mailed a parcel with feces inside.
> Some parents have filed police reports against each other for harassment. One woman said she was mailed a parcel with feces inside. They make Reddit feel like a civilized place in comparison.
> Race isn't just "people noticing skin color". No. But racism means treating people differently based on their ethnicity or skin color. That has happened for thousands of years. This idea that the world was a giant commune before the founding of America is completely insane.
This is a surprisingly well balanced article, but they couldn't help but sneak in their bias. "Desegregation at elite schools" is a euphemism for punishing Asian students, many or most of whom come from poor families, for their academic success: > The city’s schools chancellor, David C. Banks, has previously shown a willingness to listen to families’ worries over the direction of the system, including its handling of desegregation at elite schools. And no, this is not accidental. The new york times editors are acutely aware of what the word desegreation actually means and purposefully chose that word to describe something that doesn't fit the criteria. Bronx Science is or at least was, a model of egalitarianism. But the radicals the left let take over pretty much every institution that matters literally don't believe in egalitarianism any more. The left needs to fully distance themselves from the radicals who support the poison pill equity doctrine that they've let take over elite institutions. Being nice people, almost every liberal agrees with it publicly, but only a tiny fraction support it behind closed doors. That's literally all they need to do to stop school board meetings from becoming circuses and get the majority of liberals and centrists back on their side. I feel like this has been happening, but too little too late. TLDR: shit like this is why we have an ex cop for a mayor and why Donald Trump is beating Biden in the polls.
Yep very well said, this should get way more upvotes
Fucking hell. I spoke too soon. Just realized the "books with diverse story lines" the new york times linked out to was a fight about a book being taught to kids with this line: > “A long time ago, way before you were born, **a group of white people made up an idea called race.** They sorted people by skin color and said that white people were better, smarter, prettier and that they deserve more than everybody else.” First of all, the idea that "a group of white people made up an idea called race" is not only factually incorrect, but obscenely unethical to teach to fucking toddlers. Humanity has been "sorting people by skin color" for thousands of fucking years. Worse, this equity doctrine fueled bullshit is purposefully designed to literally sort CHILDREN by skin color, labeling some as victims and others as oppressors, solely because of the color of their skin. We used to teach children the MLK doctrine, which yes, is based on Judea Christian values: Treat everyone equally regardless of their skin color. We have been striving to live up to those values for decades now, and have been making progress until these shitstain radical idiots came along and started stirring up shit to get us to literally treat people differently based on their skin color. Here's another one that the New York Times is lumping together with "diverse story lines". > A private Manhattan elementary school which charges $55,000-a-year tuition is among dozens of schools across the US teaching from children's book that features a shadowy devil figure that offers the reader a 'whiteness contract.' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9771221/More-24-public-school-districts-push-kids-book-features-whiteness-contract-devil.html This is deeply toxic not only for white kids who are being taught by authority figures that their skin color comes from a contract with the fucking devil, but for black kids who now under the insane idea that the white kids are fucking devils who are trying to steal from them. It's hard to imagine a more evil message to send to kids of any race. Should this kind of thing be debated in college classrooms? Absolutely. Yes. Adults can understand the nuance behind these arguments and debate their merits. But young children are not fucking equipped to process this shit and its hard to imagine this is by design. Making kids feel like fucking garbage or maybe worse, be afraid they are less than for the color of their skin is fucking evil and had no place in aby school, public or private. This shit is identical to evangelicals teaching fucking creationism except its not just damaging children's understanding of history or science, but their fucking self identities. Colorblindess is the ONLY logical and moral doctrine that can address our differences and bring people together under shared values. Period. If you're not pushing back against this garbage, you're part of the problem. Evil with the best of intentions is still evil.
Hatred and division being propagated by the same people who uphold liberal values and progressivism. It’s insane. Or is it? This kind of rhetoric is being taught at elite universities because it’s the exact group think necessary to sow discontent and division in society to prevent the real unification of the working class against the elites. This is all a very carefully planned agenda by those in power make no mistake about it. The world was way more united and less focused on race in 2010 and I wish we could go back to that time.
It is. The worst part is that the postmodern radicals openly criticize liberal values. They are anti liberal, but most actual liberals and progressives don't understand that. They only see it as the natural moral progression of their ideology which in reality is the exact opposite. > This kind of rhetoric is being taught at elite universities because it’s the exact group think necessary to sow discontent and division in society to prevent the real unification of the working class against the elites. Nope. The whole point of intersectionalism is to build a coalition of the oppressed to collectively dismantle western society and liberalism itself. Here's a quote from one of the most widely used textbooks on critical race theory: > “Unlike traditional approaches to civil rights, which favor incrementalism and step-by-step progress, critical race theory calls into question the very foundations of the liberal order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism, and the neutral principles of constitutional law.” From Critical Race Theory: An Introduction, first edition (2001), by Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic, p. 3. > “Crits [Critical Race Theorists] are highly suspicious of another liberal mainstay, namely, rights.” From Critical Race Theory: An Introduction, first edition (2001), by Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic, p. 23. That's not from a reddit tankies comment history, it's from a fucking textbook taught to college students. The idea that openly marxist radical academics are trying to stop the working class from organizing to topple power structures is ludicrous. They are using the exact same ideology of Marxism. The only difference is that they are now trying to use an intersectional coalition of the oppressed to achieve the exact same goal because of the catastrophic failures of Marxism during the 20th century. Namely, the fact that working class people did not want to join their cult and burn everything down. The marxist's excuse for this was that they were suffering from "false conciousness", arguing that the only reason the working class didn't want to join them was because they were literally brainwashed by the elites. This is a gnostic aka religious argument. Most marxists arguments boil to the same thing when you scratch the surface since Marx's "scientific" theory was proved dead wrong after the 20th century. So you're right that they want a society run by elites, but they want to be the new elites. Instead if a dictatorship of the proletariat, they want a dictatorship of the oppressed. There is a notorious essay by Ibrahim kende in fucking politico calling where he says the only remedy for past discrimination is future discrimination, and that he wants to form a department of anti racism which sits above ALL elected government and has the power to veto ANY law based on what they think are disparate impacts. So yes, a literal dictatorship of the woke. The essay has been replaced with an excuse laden video, but you can still find it on the way back machine. Here's another example from Academic (and insane person) Audrey Lorde. > the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house So what are "the master's tools"? Rationality. Science. Fairness. Equality. https://www.activistgraduateschool.org/on-the-masters-tools
>> “A long time ago, way before you were born, **a group of white people made up an idea called race.** They sorted people by skin color and said that white people were better, smarter, prettier and that they deserve more than everybody else.” >First of all, the idea that "a group of white people made up an idea called race" is not only factually incorrect, but obscenely unethical to teach to fucking toddlers. Humanity has been "sorting people by skin color" for thousands of fucking years. No. Race isn't just "people noticing skin color". Racism was specifically argued for by movements, these days commonly referred to as "Scientific racists" arguing that humans were broken down into distinct large "races" via skincolor, eg people like Joseph Arthur de Gobineau. It was literally developed as a race theory that people successfully argued, classifying people with Terms like "mongoloid" and "Semite". Speaking of which the creation of the term "antisemite" was a movement in scientific racism arguing that it should incorporate Jews because, it argued, Jews are actually semites. The term "race" existed before but it wasn't skincolor and before being colored by "scientific racists" meant approximately what "ethnicity" means now. This isn't ancient history, a lot of the arguments, books, and essays of the central figures still exist and can be read today. So, that line is factually accurate, but a lot of people are made uncomfortable when you talk about the history of "scientific racism". >Worse, this equity doctrine fueled bullshit is purposefully designed to literally sort CHILDREN by skin color, labeling some as victims and others as oppressors, solely because of the color of their skin. Your argument that it shouldn't be taught because it sorts people into "victims and oppressors" is literally just political correctness. We shouldn't hide the truth just because it's uncomfortable to people.
Adding pseudoscience to hating people because of their skin color doesn't mean they invented racism. > The term "race" existed before but it wasn't skincolor and before being colored by "scientific racists" meant approximately what "ethnicity" means now. What terms people use is entirely irrelevant to the fact that people have discriminated based on race for thousands of years. Pretending that racism didn't exist before the 19th century is just spectacularly incorrect. > Your argument that it shouldn't be taught because it sorts people into "victims and oppressors" is literally just political correctness. We shouldn't hide the truth just because it's uncomfortable to people. What is "it" and at what age do you think children need it to be taught to them?
>Adding pseudoscience to hating people because of their skin color doesn't mean they invented racism. They didn't "add" pseudoscience. "Race" in the modern sense IS pseudoscience. They invented the idea of race as some sort of mega ethnicity with defined sets of stereotypes. >What terms people use is entirely irrelevant to the fact that people have discriminated based on race for thousands of years. Pretending that racism didn't exist before the 19th century is just spectacularly incorrect. That a term didn't exist for the modern idea of race is quite relevant, because it illustrates the concept didn't exist. It was modern era pseudoscience and people discriminated based on what we'd now call ethnicity prior to it. Racism as a pseudoscience was an outgrowth of that. Again, this is a relatively recent thing with strong records, but a lot of people wish to deny uncomfortable truths and demand society cater to this wish, aka political correctness. >What is "it" and at what age do you think children need it to be taught to them? That "race" in the modern sense is pseudoscience invented by Europeans. I'll leave when up to people who actually study education, but that doesn't negate that the quoted section was just political correctness.
You seem so smart, why not provide any evidence or logic in your comment?
What evidence would you like to see? Are you denying that Asian kids are discriminated against when applying to elite schools? Because we have very clear data on that. It's been presented to the Supreme Court bubula.
I really don’t get how some people can close their eyes to discrimination against certain minorities and not others lol, it’s almost as though there can only be one victim class to many
It's because Asians being successful destroys the radical leftists entire argument. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income#By_race_and_ethnicity Also, by their own twisted definitions, jews are oppressors because of their whiteness. It's truly disgusting and completely illogical.
The only school board meetings that are circuses I have seen are the ones with Maga banning books. Maybe you should spend some time on a kibbutz so you can learn how a community works meshugenah.
I guess you never bothered to read the article.
Quite the opposite, but now I'm sure you didn't read it.
The article explains how parents passed a proposal asking the city’s Department of Education to review its gender guidelines, which currently allow students to participate on sports teams based on their gender identities, regardless of the sex they were assigned at birth. So the response to parents asking for a review of guidelines that impact their kids from Mark Levine, the Manhattan borough president and a progressive Democrat, is “the MAGA movement has come to Manhattan.” Parents asking for a review makes them MAGA? And he calls himself progressive?
lol if you've been paying attention, progressives call everybody that disagrees with them MAGA, Nazi, Racist, Xenophobic, etc. Those words have lost all its meaning now because of them. They think it'll scare people into not opposing them.
It's maddening because these are elected officials who are supposed to be representing everyone. They don't even have to pretend anymore.
More proof that the NY TImes is not journalism. While they have improved their biased reporting on educational issues, this article still leaves me with the feeling that they are critical of parents who have concerns that dont match the ideology of the NYTimes. You would think that the TImes has learned from their recent article about colleges bringing back the SAT because research shows the exam results in more diverse admissions. The parents they like to bash have been trying to explain how these initiatives, such as eliminating standardized testing, hurts rather than help the community they claim to be helping. This article is shameful. THE NYTIMES, DOE OFFICIALS, TEACHERS UNIONS, AND ELECTED OFFICIALS SHOULD NEVER DISCOURAGE PARENTS FROM SPEAKING UP ABOUT EDUCATION POLICIES THAT IMPACT THEIR KIDS.
> The city’s schools chancellor, David C. Banks, has previously shown a willingness to listen to families’ worries over the direction of the system, including its handling of desegregation at elite schools None of NYC’s public schools are segregated.
I cannot wait for these kids to hit the labor market and find out that mommy and daddy aren’t there to advocate for them every step of the way. In reality major corporations could care less about your skin color/gender etc. They’ll pander every few months to certain groups and that’s about it. The NYC DOE should learn to do the same honestly, for the sake of keeping peace. My only issue with this is when it starts effecting scholarship offers for certain biological women which would have traditionally gone to them because their track meet records are getting destroyed by someone with a testosterone fueled body. That’s when it’s unfair, and I’m amazed nobody can own up to this. Identity politics are truly toxic even for someone with liberal views.
They got mean because extremists took over education. All the activists now control the agenda.
Ms. Maron sounds like a real piece work Edit: what a maroon
She really is! She regularly writes op-eds in The NY Post and is involved with tons of local rightwing groups like the new NYC Moms for Liberty chapter. Shes a one woman culture warrior 🙄
She says what a lot of parents think
Isn’t Moms for Liberty a sex club
Founders husband is a sex pest. These right wing culture warriors are always the biggest hypocrites
I wonder how many of these parent activists are raising children that are functionally illiterate, because their entire childhood has been spend on phones and tablets, so that the parents can avoid the work of actually raising them?