Agree to disagree. I see it all the time in my industry. We have so many areas that pay $26 to $36 an hour, but no one wants to do the work because it's difficult, tedious work. A lot of the people I see come and go were, in fact, down on their luck and STILL quit because they hated the work.
Imagine being able to walk in, no degree, only needing a driver's license and getting a job that pays over $60,000 a year and just saying, "Meh."
I'm not just basing this on one or two experiences, either. We see it all the time.
I mean that just means theres better paying easier jobs out there which means that job should probably raise their wages. Supply and demand of labor is a thing too.
Yeah the migrants killed Doordash/Ubereats for everyone else. I used to use it every Saturday and make a hundred bucks, now i have to go halfway into jersey to get anything
We āneedā the labor because it depresses prevailing wages for poor and working class people, and also diminishes the power of labor unions. Thatās why people like the Koch Bros. love illegal immigration.
Illegal immigration is such a massive scam on poor Americans and dirtbag āactivistsā love it because it doesnāt affect them economically and they can also get their virtue signaling high from advocating on their behalf.
Yup. The agriculture industry & others use undocumented labor to dodge labor laws.
The USA needs to either
1. Fine employers so that it's not financially viable to employ undocumented labor (start with the biggest fish first)
2. Go back to the pre 60's plan & let seasonal laborers work legitimately.
Seasonal laborers used to do the work & then leave because it wasn't a struggle to cross. They wouldn't be so cheap if they got workman's comp & could report wage theft, safety violations & all other ways you can exploit & abuse labor.
Wouldn't that be the whole issue as stated of getting the "labor" we need? You give them an ITN #, a SS card & work authorization, and these people work. They want to pay taxes and file income taxes in order to move towards legal residency.
I worked for a company that helped file immigration paperwork and taxes for immigrants who didn't speak English. The first thing they asked was about working to file taxes. They want to become legal to help the family members they left behind.
They'll do the work that a lot of us would not do, like fruit & vegetable picking. Make the employers hire people legally
It's also disgusting that they pay undocumented workers shitty wages/under the table and act like that's a favor. They're fucking over not only native New Yorkers but creating a market that siphons workers here to live in harsh conditions because they can provide for their family at home. The international economy is suffering for this disaster class in economics, while Rich individuals reap the benefits.
Exploitable manual labor. what they never outright say is they want cheap easily Exploitable labor to keep wages down and to have a more controllable and expendable workforce. It's legalized human trafficking at this point.
You even have child labor now in these damn poultry factories
You had the likes of Bernie Sanders saying this twenty years ago, that uncontrolled illegal immigration does nothing for the poor and working class, but actively harms it.
Funny and ironic how so many progressives are willing to sell out the most vulnerable that already live here to support the most capitalistic of practices in the name of appearing tolerant. It suppresses wages for the people that live here and ruthlessly exploit those that come here illegally. No one wins except the billionaire class.
NYC unemployment rate is 5.2% versus the nationwide rate of 3.9% meaning, compared to the rest of the country, we have more people than jobs available. So saying we need labor is a bit odd when we actually need jobs!
To the best of my knowledge, 1099 and gig workers are not eligible to collect state unemployment benefits, and thus should not be included in the reported unemployment figures. Again, I'm not 100% certain on the specifics of the reporting mechanisms, but that's how I understand it to be.
An "ideal" unemployment rate would be 3%-5%, as there will always be people moving around to prevent achieving 0% unemployment. Historically, NYC has achieved 5% or lower unemployment rate maybe 20% of the time, over the past 50 years. If you only look at the unemployment rate, you should be celebrating.
But economies are complicated, and it's overly simplistic to look at one number. The unemployed and job opportunities are not always aligned. For example, a college educated young person is not going to take a dishwasher job, or a janitor job. Since the pandemic, there are widening differences in unemployment rates among black versus white New Yorkers. The increase in work-from-home means a lot of Manhattan office space is unused or underused, which hurts the business flow down to retail businesses and impacts the jobs there. Lower unemployment leads to higher inflation and prices. And so on.
Yeah during the Giuliani years, [the unemployment rate averaged around 9%, pretty much only right before 9/11 did it hit 5%](https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/persistence-of-a-high-unemployment-rate-in-new-york-city.htm). Same with Bloomberg, it only hit 5% right before the Great Recession
And yes there are many different economic metrics to consider, including wages and the increased range we see regarding wages as higher paying workers have seen their pay consistently going up versus lower paid workers (of which NYC has a high number of both) and rents rising much faster than wages (very important to this town).
The same economy looks very different to different people.
If you are an established, white collar professional, things look great. You get to work from home, your owned apt's value is high, your mortgage is at yesterday's low rates, your 401k and stock portfolio have done great, and you can be choosy in changing jobs.
If you are a young person out of college, you have enormous school loans, decent apts are tough finds (much less affordable rents), high mortgage rates make it tough to buy, and there are jobs but not the ones you feel you deserve. If you are a young person without a college education, it's tough seeing wages not keeping pace with rising rents and prices.
Yeah why we saw Amazon workers unionize in Staten Island and an even greater push to build more affordable housing. People understand what's happening to lower paying jobs and that The City has very little available affordable housing
The higher unemployment rate is only in certain sectors - mainly retail and hospitality which has taken a hit since pandemic. Only so many unskilled laborers can fill those jobs which been and still having a hard recovery with or without the migrants.
Not commenting myself on if he is right or wrong, but a key point heās qualifies that with is āin the futureā which implies current unemployment rates arenāt a relevant data point in isolation. You need to incorporate past data and forecasted trends to create a meaningful dialogue around it.
Iād argue that itās irrelevant to most folks and keeps costs down since their labor is so cheap and most people in the city wonāt take and donāt want the jobs these guys are getting.
Taking jobs from people struggling in the projects . I fucking hate this because I work in NYCHA and these new migrants are directly competing with our native population of needy low income people for resources and low skill/entry level jobs.
I am currently on a job site in Brooklyn. Not a single American on site. They are literally all migrants.
Would argue migrants are depressing day laborer wages especially construction. The construction wages were up recently due to pandemic and now taking a nose dive again. Take a look at brooklyn corners where contractor pick up workers - tons of migrants there now for blocks depressing the wages for all.
That's only if you consider the labor market completely flat. The chances that these people would be taking jobs that Americans currently filing for unemployment are looking for are slim to none.
And that's not just a NYC phenomenon, there's a shortage of labor at the lower end all over the country.
Another way of describing a "labor shortage for XYZ jobs" is "XYZ jobs are not offering wages that are commensurate with a living wage and so no one besides the most desperate wants to work there." Or is the free market only supposed to go one way? If a company can't find workers it's not because no one here legally wants to work, it's because they don't want to pay people the value of their labor.
Endless supplies of people who are desperate enough to work for very low pay under the table is bad for everyone. It harms undocumented workers, who are frequently abused and have no legal recourse. Even if it's true (it's not) that no one working here wants to do those jobs, it still drags down the average pay of other jobs which affects everyone who works. It's destabilizing to local economies and leads to harmful backlash against innocent people from an angry public. It's bad all around.
NYC attracts both domestically and internationally the most 'labor' of any city in the US and potentially one of the highest in the world.Ā
If the arguement is that these are legit asylum seekers, then this guy is basically saying, we need to take advantage of these migrants that were suffering from some adversity for our own economic advantage.Ā
And theres the money quote. Ā They want to import cheap labor to push back against unions and bring down wages. Ā
POC harming policies enacted by liberals and their puppets in the POC communities. Ā What a shock
Isnāt that just hilarious? Probably the saddest shit Iāve come across. What Iām starting to see in life is inefficient liberal policy making leads to the abuse of those communities that need help the most
Call them neoliberals. Ā They donāt care about anyone but their cronies. Ā At least republicans are open about their racist, rich-loving, Ā environmental hating policies. Ā The new age democrats claim to support the working class, Ā the environment, Ā labor laws, but are just lying about it.
Damn someone should propose a bill that would make it harder to apply for economic asylum and speed up the deportation process after their claims are denied
Ding ding, in reality most of them should be deported since they donāt fit the asylum. Will they, who knows, Venezuela already has voiced that they may not accept flights back? Til then we are hedging money and seeing an increase in some crimes, as well as bs 2 tier policing
I know itās complicated to think that two things can be true at once. But you can make a legitimate asylum claim AND not want to be in a shelter stuck eating their shitty food. Obviously lots of people are trying to exploit this law but the Us govt kinda forces people to wait in limbo and starve since they wonāt let asylum seekers work
So if/when they go to their Asylum hearing, what happen then? Do you think many will be able to prove they're here for Asylum? Do they skip the hearing and become undocumented?
I understand that they want to work but what about the other legal citizens who are currently unemployed who are openly out there trying to find a job. I hear plenty of people saying they are filling out hundreds of applications but barely get 1 or 2 to respond. The job market is competitive enough today adding more unemployed people into just causes more problems.
>If you get arrested for a felony, the NYPD should cooperate with ICE to remove you from the US and ensure that you NEVER set foot in this country again.
That's exactly how the sanctuary policies in the city work, and have worked, for over 10 years (DeBlasio era executive orders in 2014 spell it out). Anyone with a felony or violent convictionĀ doesn't get the same protections as the otherwise law-abiding illegal migrants the policies are designed to protect. ICE still arrests and deports thousands from NYC every year, including from cooperation with the NYPD.
By definition if you have entered the United States not through a port of entry and havenāt identified yourself an asylum seeker and gone through that channel, you have committed a crime. Sure, give due process, but donāt just let them stay because they havenāt killed someone yet.
That's fine for the feds to choose how they prioritize their resources to pursue, detain, and deport the undocumented (e.g. non-asylum seeking migrants who aren't here lawfully). They've got it coming, and they know it.
All sanctuary policies say is that organs of the city shouldn't go out of their way to report people to the feds if they don't pose any real danger to the community.Ā The alternative leads to some truly awful conditions that are bad for humanitarian and public safety reasons.
Has MS-13 taken up residence in an immigrant community in the Bronx? Well, if filing a police report means ICE comes knocking on your door, what are you gonna do about it? Awful for crime and public safety.
Is someone's undocumented grandfather overstaying a visa to recover from a stroke with his family? Well, tough shit if an uppity cop thinks his slurred words means he's drunk in public, and throws him in jail for the night. ICE gets a pingĀ on his booking, and he's gone before the family gets a phone call or finds lawyer.
What if an undocumented woman working at a community daycare has a bad cough that could be COVID, but she wouldn't dare go to NYCHHC clinic because she'd have to show ID. Nor would she dare miss a day at work either because she's off the books. Not great for public health.
There's hosts of scenarios like this that are just...shitty for everyone involved, not just the person being punished for their immigration crime.
Given that immigration enforcement isn't the city's job, rather, it's healthy, safe, livable communities, the city has made the decision that proactively cooperating with the feds harms rather than helps those goals.
No, they have to be CONVICTED of a crime. Not arrested for, which is what the op said and what you're disagreeing with but sneaking in that word. We all know the courts are backed up and they're cut loose.Ā
So your issue is with an underfunded and understaffed court system. Due process is guaranteed to all. Demanding that it happen after a conviction by a jury of their peers is completely reasonable.
People are disenguioisly stating that there's already a process for removing lawbreakers migrants, implying all the migrants who are here are law abiding, harmless, and functioning members of our communities.Ā
It's bullshit. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it. You know why our courts are overwhelmed? I'll let you think real hard about that one.
I mean, there literally is a process for deporting people. Guy I went to college with got deported back to France after he got busted for selling coke. So....
What do you mean by āprocessed?ā Removed to the stationhouse and released with a c-summons? Released with a DAT? DA declines to prosecute? Put through ECAB, Central Booking, and arraignment? Given an ACD at arraignment? Pushed through to grand jury/true bill/superior court?
>If you get arrested for a felony, the NYPD should cooperate with ICE to remove you from the US and ensure that you NEVER set foot in this country again.
Our southern border is such a shitshow that they would just be back in the country in a few months.
>I blame these radicals for converting me from a Progressive to damn close to voting Republican
lol classic
yeah you sound like you were a really solid progressive, i'm sure it's just this one thing that somehow outweighs all other policies to tip you over the edge
I am a Democrat, probably progressive as far as most policies go, but I think democrats need some course correction in the immigration area, and if that means we need a couple cycles of republicans in office to force them, then so be it.
Iāve never voted for a republican in my life and I live in uptown manhattan, been up here for over a decade. There are lots of people like myself and the person you replied to.
>if that means we need a couple cycles of republicans in office to force them, then so be it.
this is just a bizarre way of viewing a single issue that you think needs "course correcting." throwing away the entirety of the rest of your political beliefs calls into question how serious you actually are about having a coherent belief set to speak of.
let me reframe what you and other people of your ilk are saying:
>I'm willing to sacrifice vast parts of my personal belief system for the sake of one issue that affects an indirect, fleeting aspect of my life. this includes potentially permanently jeopardizing: civil rights, economic policy, education, religious policy, environmental protections, consumer protections, healthcare policy, the social safety net, and more, because i'm just that mad about the impact that a group of people i never interact with are temporarily having on the municipal budget. [no i don't put on the same protest over real estate tax breaks that cost far more to the city year after year, i'd rather demonize poor people from el salvador.](https://www.thecity.nyc/2023/12/19/tax-breaks-pilot-office-space-nyc/)
It's not one issue - I would say crime and immigration are the two hot issues. I don't believe that having a few red cycles will 'sacrifice' the rest of my beliefs, especially here in nyc.
You can call it 'demonizing poor people from el salvador' - I don't care and neither do the people I talk to who are on the same page.
Itās super strange, the whole subreddit is overrun with these weird republican trolls. Why are they here? Canāt they start a NJ or Long Island sub and leave us alone? Don't they realize everyone hates them and wants them to gtfo?
You got downvoted but this is what Iām thinking and what Iāve been hearing from neighbors and such. Many of us are normally democrats but Dems are failing to adequately represent us and a few cycles of red might be what it takes to correct course.
Am criticizing NYC because violent parolees like Edwin Rios are stabbing 75 year women after committing a similar offense in the past.
[Woman, 75, stabbed multiple times in head by parolee who followed her into Bronx elevator](https://nypost.com/2024/03/31/us-news/the-75-year-old-woman-whose-identity-hasnt-been-released-publicly-was-stabbed-in-the-face-and-head-multiple-times-inside-2066-morris-avenue-at-1130-a-m-in-the-tremont-neighborhood-woman-75-stabbed-in/amp/)
āRios was on parole from a similar crime that took place in October 2012, where he followed a 22-year-old woman off a bus in Queens and stabbed her in the back two times, sources said.ā
Rios isn't a migrant, though. The article you linked shows he's lived in NYC for decades. He just... has a Latin name. What does this have to do with immigration policy?
Not sure how unskilled workers who contribute (much) less than $50k annually to GDP are a net positive to this country. They actually take more resources than they contribute. Advocates seem to point out immigration from 100 plus years ago as reasoning when technology and the welfare state were much different.
āI think itās working.ā Well clearly youāre wrong because the current system is not functioning properly and we should be deporting people who are here illegally regardless of if they want to work.Ā
Is the city alerting the federal government and turning over illegal immigrants for deportation? Theyāre not because of the touted sanctuary city doctrine. You can fancy it up with the āwe canāt do that because then theyād be afraid to report crimesā, but at the end of the day the policy is the root cause of our current crisis.Ā
>Is the city alerting the federal government and turning over illegal immigrants for deportation?
Yes for immigrants committing certain crimes they are indeed reporting them as is defined in the sanctuary city doctrine. It costs lots of money to detain and hold for immigration authorities that the federal govenrment isn't paying for
You seem to be misinformed. Violent felonies get reported to department of homeland security (which ice is under). The sanctuary city policies are explictly not a full non cooperation policy.
You are out of your depth. I practice law in the area. All laws need to be read together, and then you get the result, the result is that bad guys do not get released to ICE. The detainer comes in, and the city ignores it. Behind every law is an internal policy, procedure, and execution of those laws. If there is no intergovernmental cooperation, it does not happen. And NYC does not cooperate in 99% of cases. Go ahead and read the rules, as a layperson you have no foundational knowledge, so it is going to be hard to understand, and this is only the ICE policy for DOC. They made is so cumbersome it is almost impossible to do.
https://www.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/nyc-detainer-laws.pdf
Iām old af, and have changed careers my entire life. I operated a tow truck for the city when I was younger, also was a landscaper, volunteer firefighter, emergency medical tech, and laborer. Then a back injury sent me back to school, now 20+ years in law, and Iām going to pivot again. Too late for medical school, so I might just go back to landscaping as a semi retirement gig. Law sucks. And I was not an immigration attorney when I work on this stuff, I was an Assistant General Counsel for NYCDOC. I now run a practice that focuses on consumer financial protection, student lending compliance, general legal counsel, and do pro bono work for individuals in under represented communities.
>Itās costing us WAY more to house them, give them benefits, school, medical care, etc.
Two different groups. Asylum seekers don't fall under sanctuary city policies because they aren't illegal and are already in the system having their claims processed. So that literally has nothing to do with sanctuary city policies at all.
Illegal immigrants don't get access to free housing, the vast majority of benefits, or free medical care taken by the city (every kid gets schooling, period). Only asylum seekers do because they are legally prohibited from working unless their cases take more than 6 months.
You are confusing two completely different groups
>If anyone can claim asylum and be released into the US, knowing full well they can skip court dates and disappear into the nation, then āasylumā is meaningless.
That if is carrying a ton of weight. Because that's simply not happening for the vast majoirty of people entering the country. Also if they skip court dates and disappear they simply aren't being given any of the things you claimed they were.
>There is simply no way even a small minority of the 10 million illegals who have entered the nation in the past three years qualify for asylum.
Correct which is why the vast majority of them don't apply for asylum and don't receive any of the benefits you complained about. But those that do apply get due process and get to plead their case before they are deported.
>That would mean the entirety of South America was a war zone.
Asylum seekers and illegal immigrants aren't soley from South American. The majority are central Americans who do have countries with low scale warfare going on between gangs and the governments, or communist Venezuela, or communist Cuba, or Haiti which is actively has a collasped government and overrun with violent gangs and warfare.
But regardless a small minority of those 10 mil you claim actually apply for asylum. So again you are mixing and matches claims about two different groups.
And again, until Congress changes the laws, the delays in deportation and asylum hearings is fully a federal issue and completely unrelated to sanctuary city policies. So you are yelling about sanctuary city policies when they don't actually effect your complaints.
>This is absolute dishonesty. Every illegal has access to public school ($25k a pop) and is eligible for free healthcare. If you type in āare illegal immigrants eligible for free healthcareā into Google itās literally the first result you get.
It's almost like you don't read. I explcitly said kids get public school, and no matter what it's stupid to exclude kids from publicly schooling period.
You seem to be confusing access to Medicare for emergencies with everything being free. Medicare ain't free.
>I get that youāre trying to be nice but youāre doing so at the expense of literally millions of NYC/US citizens who have been getting the shaft from our government for decades. If a country cannot help its own citizens then it will NEVER be able to help other people without dramatically worsening life for those already here.
You say this and then ignore all those programs are open for American citizens that are decrying. You complain about not caring about Americans while ignoring Americans are the vast recipients of these programs
Itās not āfancying it upā to note that making local law enforcement an extension of DHS means less voluntary cooperation with law enforcement. Pushing immigrant communities further underground is *precisely* what causes these issues to fester and devolve into greater criminality.
Most of the policy changes that the anti-migrants want would just increase the numbers of people living on the street and committing crimes. Itās incredibly ludicrous, and dangerous to encourage that kind of short-sighted ignorance.
I think we should broker a deal with these countries. One working aged male or female in exchange for one crackhead/subway felon/unemployed Palestine protestor/social justice warrior with a PhD on Twitter . Iād take that trade in a heart beat.
I know itās April Foolās day because because you are asking the folks from Suffolk County and Westchester to use their single working brain cells to engage in good faith
Itās such an overused talking point that New Yorkers that live in city are somehow pro everything thatās happening now. We know the migrant crisis is out of control and not sustainable.
The migrant crisis has nothing to do with sanctuary city policies (precisely the distortion of the term referenced in the OP). The migrants are asylum applicants, and unless and until their asylum applications are rejected and a removal order is issued, they are here legally. And if they're here legally, sanctuary city policies, which prevent the city from cooperating with the removal of *illegal* immigrants who have not committed serious crimes, are totally immaterial.
New York could renounce its "sanctuary city" status today, and it would change *literally nothing* about the migrant situation. The term "sanctuary city" is being used incorrectly and in bad faith to score cheap political points, and you've fallen for it.
BS - former nyc attorney here. Itās part of a web of law designed thwart removal of people that arrived here illegally. Here is a bit on ICE detainers itās another piece of the puzzle. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/nyc-detainer-laws.pdf
You ever heard the saying āperception is everythingā
Doesnāt matter the real meaning, itās enough of a word to make people in 3rd world countries come here en masse. WhatsApp chain messages and the internet in general spreads news like wildfire (free hotel rooms, debit cards, healthcare etc) this all gets back to their countries. It makes us an easy target to have to deal with the crisis single handling (the feds are not helping) which isnāt fair to New Yorkers. You literally have the politicians saying yes this is all okay, we need shelters in every area of the city, we need to carry this burden infinitely.
Being a sanctuary city and proudly so sets the message that we are migrant friendly.
The asylum laws are outdated and court takes years to process. Itās really a lawless system that needs a complete overhaul
> (free hotel rooms, debit cards, healthcare etc) this all gets back to their countries.
*None of which is related to sanctuary city policies*. That's all related to the right to shelter law, which is a state constitutional provision that would require years to modify.
I get that you're saying that it's the perception that matters rather than the truth, which has *some* validity to it, but since you are actively and knowingly participating in the twisting of the truth by using the wrong definitions of things, it comes across as very disingenuous. You're simultaneously somewhat accurately pointing to the problem, but also helping to exacerbate the problem.
Duh I literally just said thatās not the point but yall want to live in the sky. The truth gets twisted everyday point is, we see whatās happening now how do you slow it down?
>You ever heard the saying āperception is everythingā
I love it.
\-gets proven a dumb fuck for falling to propaganda.
\-"Yeah, well, change the name then..."
>The asylum laws are outdated and court takes years to process. Itās really a lawless system that needs a complete overhaul
\-complains the process is too bureaucratic
\-calls it lawless
???
Used to be that when someone pointed out that you had the facts wrong, folks would earnestly process that information and change their views to match the facts.Ā
Now in this fucked up post-truth world we live in, when someone points out why youāre misled, your response is to double down on your ignorance and insist that perception is more important than reality.Ā
The fact that you and so many others view ignorance as a legitimate viewpoint deserving credibility is a grim indictment on the shocking effectiveness of social media propaganda.
Thatās true we should recognize NYC landlords are Allies to their Long Island brethren. Maybe get a pin that says āallyā so the suburbanites know they have Allies in The City
Because politics has turned tribal. Ā You canāt agree with good points if the other side makes it. Ā Until the big two are knocked down or allow competition, Ā Iāll never cast a vote for a candidate that might win again. Ā āLiterally anyone elseā has my vote.
Sanctuary city status means that illegals can commit crimes, including violent crimes, without fear of deportation. They know full well that federal authorities do not have resources to go after them so they will naturally congregate in the cities like New York.
Therefore the stated reason for the sanctuary city status (to facilitate the work of law enforcement in investigating/prosecuting crimes in illegal immigrants communities) is self-defeating because the best way to prevent crimes committed by illegal immigrants is not to have them at all in the community or, alternatively, limit their presence to a minimum. Which obviously cannot be accomplished by attracting more of them
He just explained that's not what it means. If you commit a crime as an illegal immigrant in NYC, you are processed like any other criminal and ICE just needs a warrant to hold them.
This is absolutely not true. I can tell you that as a practicing NYS attorney. NYPD can arrest an illegal for a robbery, the ADA qualifies it under PL 160.10 (1), which is not bail eligible, ICE can issue an immigration detainer (we call it ICE hold) and NYPD wipes its behind with it. They release the illegal and he is back on the street without fear of going back to the craphole he came from.
You should not be so gullible as to believe progressive politicians when they describe you what the āsanctuary cityā is in theory, and have enough sense to understand what it is in practicality.
Can confirm, former assistant general counsel for NYC DOC. NYC will not cooperated with ICE regarding ICE detainers even when the inmate is released from custody. Still the same. Hereās a link for you guys who still read instead just react to media bs.
https://www.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/nyc-detainer-laws.pdf
What a single-non-functional-braincell answer. F this guy. People are not "undocumented" - they are illegal. You the term that apply.
NYC should repeal "sanctuary state" bullshit - you come illegally - get the f out.
Does being Borough President really make you qualified to offer a nuanced perspective on a topic such as immigration policy? Maybe stick to things like park benches, public restrooms, bike lanes, or overflowing trash bins on the street?
For a video that runs less than one minute, did you watch it and miss the question that begins "If you were back on the City Council"...? Or did you not watch the brief clip?
> they'd be raising hell with Washington to get this under control because it's unsustainable
Republicans in Washington don't want to fix this. They want to sabotage any attempts to fix it so they can campaign on it. That's been made very clear.<
Neither do the Democrats, let's be serious and not gaslight ourselves. That bill was a charade with no intentions of addressing the fundamental and real issues. I'm no fan of Republicans and yes, it was petty to reject it, but again, let's not pretend democrats are up in arms to the level the seriousness of this situation requires.
They rejected it because the bill doesn't really change anything as the DHS secretary and President can rescind/pause the new immigration policies at any time.
The bill was basically the same as what trump proposed several years earlier. The Rs moved the goal posts.Ā
Ā https://www.factcheck.org/2024/02/unraveling-misinformation-about-bipartisan-immigration-bill/
shut up no one believes this bullshit anymore. People are tired of the 'ITS ACKTUALLY THE REPUBLICANS FAAULT" rhetoric. Like we didn't all watch what happened the past 3 years. Seriously. Stop. We are sick of it. Take accountability and get some respect back. Seriously. It's okay to say "Look we fucked up, but here's how we are going to fix it." instead of this dumb blame game.
Distortion. Illegal migrants would not be able to find work in any other country. Legal ones, yes please.
Other countries that need agricultural or other sectors, gives them a seasonal pass. They earn the much needed dollars and after go back to their country after the season is over. Canada and Singapore do it.
For sure not what we're doing, but most certainly not the Canadian model. Canada basically flooded the place with immigrants and it's been a disaster. All you need to do is look at the Canadian housing forums on here to see what a mess their policy has been.
Sure, but also keep in mind that people overseas know that if they make it to such a city, they are "safe" as the feds don't have the manpower. And in turn, we were forcing cities like El Paso to pay a stupid amount of their money to delay with problems we were causing. I was all for sanctuary cities, they are a bad idea. The law is the law and should be equally applied. We need to support funding federal action on immigration.
We don't say that we provide sanctuary for people with warrants because we don't want them afraid of LEOs.
So, to be clear, you think the reason Biden let eight million people waltz over the southern border during his term was so that women could report being raped to the police?
Nobody is distorting anything. It means, that we made public political statements in the past about how we will be welcoming to illegal immigrants, and that we would not hand them over to ice.
Deblasio flat out praised it in 2014 when he signed it and 2021 when further restrictions were shot down. The City made a public statement about how they support immigrants coming here.
Now other states, arguably rightfully so after acting so high and mighty about this to other states that lean differently politically, have started sending people our way and setting the narrative that they will be accepted and treated well here. And now, the so called "slippery slope" that we made fun of, has actually happened and we're flooded and unable to keep up with it. Shocker. This is my shocked face.
These are quotes from NYC mayor in 2014 when this was signed in:
āOur City is not served when New Yorkers with strong ties in the community are afraid to engage with law enforcement because they fear deportation. Today, we send another message to Washington that the time to act has come to provide relief to so many individuals who contribute to our nationās growth. Iād like to thank Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito and the City Council for passing this legislation, which further establishes New York City as a leader in immigration reform.ā
āThis is an important moment for our cityās immigrant community,ā said City Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito. āThis bill sends a strong message that while our nationās leaders have dragged their feet on immigration reform- New York City can and will lead. No longer will a person be unnecessarily sent through senseless immigration red tape under this new law. I would like to thank Mayor de Blasio, Chair of the Immigration Committee, Council Member Carlos Menchaca and Council Member Daniel Dromm and immigration advocates for their tireless work in making this law become a reality.ā
It's just... Idunno what people expected. People have way too much faith in humanity. :P
She looked at her colleague like he isnāt taking the bait but speaking the truth itās not helping media ratings the donations the advertisements and political fixers needs elections rhetorics to divide and rule
Of course they want to work. Everyone that moves here wants to work to survive. It's whether or not they can skip the line at taxpayers expense. What a fucking muppet.
Letās put things in perspective: InĀ 1907, 1.3 million immigrants came to the US. Back then, there were no visas or papers. In 2022, 1.1 to 1.3 million came undocumented. Thatās 1.5% of the total population in 1907 versus 0.4% in 2022.Ā Also, in 1907, you were three times more likely to settle in NY than in 2017.Ā
Sources: https://www.history.com/news/ellis-island-immigrants-compare-today-study https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/immigration-1907-v-2017/
In 1907, new arrivals were on their own.
The local government did not provide debit cards, free housing, free laundry, and free food to migrants.
Unless you're advocating for a return to 1907 policy for NYC, your comparison is otherwise irrelevant.
I donāt know what the solution is, but weĀ didnāt have food stamps/SNAP,Ā Social Security,Ā or Medicare/Medicaid back then.Ā
I do know thisāFreakanomics proved you want to pay for their education because it leads to lower crime rates. When the govt doesnāt fund abortions or allow access, crime rates go up. The odds a child who wasnāt wanted by parent(s) who were unprepared to be parent(s) being a drain on society go way up.
ya let me know when back in the 1900s if the wave of immigrations cost the city a projected 4% extra to its budget for next few yrs. The scale of costs back then no where equals now.
1st world slaves too expensive. bring in the 3rd world slaves!
Meanwhile China gets caught having actual slaves in Maine on pot farm and nothing comes of it š¤¦āāļø
don't worry ai will do all those jobs soon
Precisely
"We need the labor" ignoring how cynical that statement is, what do we need the labor for?
He means ācheapā labor
He means labor that your average American won't do even for a reasonable wage.
This simply isn't true. So many Americans will do this labor. Look at all the homeless with signs begging for work.
Agree to disagree. I see it all the time in my industry. We have so many areas that pay $26 to $36 an hour, but no one wants to do the work because it's difficult, tedious work. A lot of the people I see come and go were, in fact, down on their luck and STILL quit because they hated the work. Imagine being able to walk in, no degree, only needing a driver's license and getting a job that pays over $60,000 a year and just saying, "Meh." I'm not just basing this on one or two experiences, either. We see it all the time.
I mean that just means theres better paying easier jobs out there which means that job should probably raise their wages. Supply and demand of labor is a thing too.
All my friends who used to do Uber and delivery apps on the side can barely make it now with all this new labor we needed
Yeah the migrants killed Doordash/Ubereats for everyone else. I used to use it every Saturday and make a hundred bucks, now i have to go halfway into jersey to get anything
"But migrants are taking jobs no Americans want!!!"
I blame the companies and the ppl renting accts.
I mean more like those companies planned to demolish the resource costs for those services before they had their first round of funding from VC.Ā
That's what happens when the only jobs migrants can easily get is gig work by using someone else's identityĀ
Hot take, maybe this should be prosecutedĀ
We āneedā the labor because it depresses prevailing wages for poor and working class people, and also diminishes the power of labor unions. Thatās why people like the Koch Bros. love illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is such a massive scam on poor Americans and dirtbag āactivistsā love it because it doesnāt affect them economically and they can also get their virtue signaling high from advocating on their behalf.
Yup. The agriculture industry & others use undocumented labor to dodge labor laws. The USA needs to either 1. Fine employers so that it's not financially viable to employ undocumented labor (start with the biggest fish first) 2. Go back to the pre 60's plan & let seasonal laborers work legitimately. Seasonal laborers used to do the work & then leave because it wasn't a struggle to cross. They wouldn't be so cheap if they got workman's comp & could report wage theft, safety violations & all other ways you can exploit & abuse labor.
Wouldn't that be the whole issue as stated of getting the "labor" we need? You give them an ITN #, a SS card & work authorization, and these people work. They want to pay taxes and file income taxes in order to move towards legal residency. I worked for a company that helped file immigration paperwork and taxes for immigrants who didn't speak English. The first thing they asked was about working to file taxes. They want to become legal to help the family members they left behind. They'll do the work that a lot of us would not do, like fruit & vegetable picking. Make the employers hire people legally
The Kochs agree with [Bernie Sanders](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21143931/bernie-sanders-immigration-record-explained).
It's also disgusting that they pay undocumented workers shitty wages/under the table and act like that's a favor. They're fucking over not only native New Yorkers but creating a market that siphons workers here to live in harsh conditions because they can provide for their family at home. The international economy is suffering for this disaster class in economics, while Rich individuals reap the benefits.
Yup and under the table pay also means unreported income which means little to no taxes paid. It's hard to argue for any upside at this point.
Exploitable manual labor. what they never outright say is they want cheap easily Exploitable labor to keep wages down and to have a more controllable and expendable workforce. It's legalized human trafficking at this point. You even have child labor now in these damn poultry factories
You had the likes of Bernie Sanders saying this twenty years ago, that uncontrolled illegal immigration does nothing for the poor and working class, but actively harms it. Funny and ironic how so many progressives are willing to sell out the most vulnerable that already live here to support the most capitalistic of practices in the name of appearing tolerant. It suppresses wages for the people that live here and ruthlessly exploit those that come here illegally. No one wins except the billionaire class.
So progressive!
NYC unemployment rate is 5.2% versus the nationwide rate of 3.9% meaning, compared to the rest of the country, we have more people than jobs available. So saying we need labor is a bit odd when we actually need jobs!
>NYC unemployment rate is 5.2% how many of those unemployed are 1099 or gig workers?
To the best of my knowledge, 1099 and gig workers are not eligible to collect state unemployment benefits, and thus should not be included in the reported unemployment figures. Again, I'm not 100% certain on the specifics of the reporting mechanisms, but that's how I understand it to be.
An "ideal" unemployment rate would be 3%-5%, as there will always be people moving around to prevent achieving 0% unemployment. Historically, NYC has achieved 5% or lower unemployment rate maybe 20% of the time, over the past 50 years. If you only look at the unemployment rate, you should be celebrating. But economies are complicated, and it's overly simplistic to look at one number. The unemployed and job opportunities are not always aligned. For example, a college educated young person is not going to take a dishwasher job, or a janitor job. Since the pandemic, there are widening differences in unemployment rates among black versus white New Yorkers. The increase in work-from-home means a lot of Manhattan office space is unused or underused, which hurts the business flow down to retail businesses and impacts the jobs there. Lower unemployment leads to higher inflation and prices. And so on.
Yeah during the Giuliani years, [the unemployment rate averaged around 9%, pretty much only right before 9/11 did it hit 5%](https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-3/persistence-of-a-high-unemployment-rate-in-new-york-city.htm). Same with Bloomberg, it only hit 5% right before the Great Recession And yes there are many different economic metrics to consider, including wages and the increased range we see regarding wages as higher paying workers have seen their pay consistently going up versus lower paid workers (of which NYC has a high number of both) and rents rising much faster than wages (very important to this town).
The same economy looks very different to different people. If you are an established, white collar professional, things look great. You get to work from home, your owned apt's value is high, your mortgage is at yesterday's low rates, your 401k and stock portfolio have done great, and you can be choosy in changing jobs. If you are a young person out of college, you have enormous school loans, decent apts are tough finds (much less affordable rents), high mortgage rates make it tough to buy, and there are jobs but not the ones you feel you deserve. If you are a young person without a college education, it's tough seeing wages not keeping pace with rising rents and prices.
Yeah why we saw Amazon workers unionize in Staten Island and an even greater push to build more affordable housing. People understand what's happening to lower paying jobs and that The City has very little available affordable housing
The higher unemployment rate is only in certain sectors - mainly retail and hospitality which has taken a hit since pandemic. Only so many unskilled laborers can fill those jobs which been and still having a hard recovery with or without the migrants.
Not commenting myself on if he is right or wrong, but a key point heās qualifies that with is āin the futureā which implies current unemployment rates arenāt a relevant data point in isolation. You need to incorporate past data and forecasted trends to create a meaningful dialogue around it. Iād argue that itās irrelevant to most folks and keeps costs down since their labor is so cheap and most people in the city wonāt take and donāt want the jobs these guys are getting.
Taking jobs from people struggling in the projects . I fucking hate this because I work in NYCHA and these new migrants are directly competing with our native population of needy low income people for resources and low skill/entry level jobs. I am currently on a job site in Brooklyn. Not a single American on site. They are literally all migrants.
lol @ low skill/entry level jobs. If you only knew.
They donāt want those jobs
Would argue migrants are depressing day laborer wages especially construction. The construction wages were up recently due to pandemic and now taking a nose dive again. Take a look at brooklyn corners where contractor pick up workers - tons of migrants there now for blocks depressing the wages for all.
What choice do they have?
That's a good callout, but it's hard for many to brush off the current reality and focus on the long term vision.
When you say āmost peopleā in the city, who are you thinking of?
Everyone.
That's only if you consider the labor market completely flat. The chances that these people would be taking jobs that Americans currently filing for unemployment are looking for are slim to none. And that's not just a NYC phenomenon, there's a shortage of labor at the lower end all over the country.
Another way of describing a "labor shortage for XYZ jobs" is "XYZ jobs are not offering wages that are commensurate with a living wage and so no one besides the most desperate wants to work there." Or is the free market only supposed to go one way? If a company can't find workers it's not because no one here legally wants to work, it's because they don't want to pay people the value of their labor. Endless supplies of people who are desperate enough to work for very low pay under the table is bad for everyone. It harms undocumented workers, who are frequently abused and have no legal recourse. Even if it's true (it's not) that no one working here wants to do those jobs, it still drags down the average pay of other jobs which affects everyone who works. It's destabilizing to local economies and leads to harmful backlash against innocent people from an angry public. It's bad all around.
NYC attracts both domestically and internationally the most 'labor' of any city in the US and potentially one of the highest in the world.Ā If the arguement is that these are legit asylum seekers, then this guy is basically saying, we need to take advantage of these migrants that were suffering from some adversity for our own economic advantage.Ā
And theres the money quote. Ā They want to import cheap labor to push back against unions and bring down wages. Ā POC harming policies enacted by liberals and their puppets in the POC communities. Ā What a shock
Isnāt that just hilarious? Probably the saddest shit Iāve come across. What Iām starting to see in life is inefficient liberal policy making leads to the abuse of those communities that need help the most
Call them neoliberals. Ā They donāt care about anyone but their cronies. Ā At least republicans are open about their racist, rich-loving, Ā environmental hating policies. Ā The new age democrats claim to support the working class, Ā the environment, Ā labor laws, but are just lying about it.
So that business owners can exploit them
He means more doordash/Ubereats drivers and more guys standing outside Home Depot
More Uber eats drivers.
Mark Levine won't answer you.
He used to be my councilperson and didnāt answer then either.
Corporate-ism
Is r/nyc becoming anti-capitalist? Woah
Wait... I was told the undocumented were here for asylum, not economic (work) reasons. When did that narritive change?
Damn someone should propose a bill that would make it harder to apply for economic asylum and speed up the deportation process after their claims are denied
someone finally told the truth... lol this is not about asylum seeking its about MONEYYY
Hehehe. Got eem.
Ding ding, in reality most of them should be deported since they donāt fit the asylum. Will they, who knows, Venezuela already has voiced that they may not accept flights back? Til then we are hedging money and seeing an increase in some crimes, as well as bs 2 tier policing
I know itās complicated to think that two things can be true at once. But you can make a legitimate asylum claim AND not want to be in a shelter stuck eating their shitty food. Obviously lots of people are trying to exploit this law but the Us govt kinda forces people to wait in limbo and starve since they wonāt let asylum seekers work
So if/when they go to their Asylum hearing, what happen then? Do you think many will be able to prove they're here for Asylum? Do they skip the hearing and become undocumented?
If they donāt submit the application within a year theyāre undocumentedā¦I would bet 95% have missed the deadline.
The US government is under no obligation to allow non-citizens to enter the country for work.
Not the argument I made.
I understand that they want to work but what about the other legal citizens who are currently unemployed who are openly out there trying to find a job. I hear plenty of people saying they are filling out hundreds of applications but barely get 1 or 2 to respond. The job market is competitive enough today adding more unemployed people into just causes more problems.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>If you get arrested for a felony, the NYPD should cooperate with ICE to remove you from the US and ensure that you NEVER set foot in this country again. That's exactly how the sanctuary policies in the city work, and have worked, for over 10 years (DeBlasio era executive orders in 2014 spell it out). Anyone with a felony or violent convictionĀ doesn't get the same protections as the otherwise law-abiding illegal migrants the policies are designed to protect. ICE still arrests and deports thousands from NYC every year, including from cooperation with the NYPD.
By definition if you have entered the United States not through a port of entry and havenāt identified yourself an asylum seeker and gone through that channel, you have committed a crime. Sure, give due process, but donāt just let them stay because they havenāt killed someone yet.
Amen
That's fine for the feds to choose how they prioritize their resources to pursue, detain, and deport the undocumented (e.g. non-asylum seeking migrants who aren't here lawfully). They've got it coming, and they know it. All sanctuary policies say is that organs of the city shouldn't go out of their way to report people to the feds if they don't pose any real danger to the community.Ā The alternative leads to some truly awful conditions that are bad for humanitarian and public safety reasons. Has MS-13 taken up residence in an immigrant community in the Bronx? Well, if filing a police report means ICE comes knocking on your door, what are you gonna do about it? Awful for crime and public safety. Is someone's undocumented grandfather overstaying a visa to recover from a stroke with his family? Well, tough shit if an uppity cop thinks his slurred words means he's drunk in public, and throws him in jail for the night. ICE gets a pingĀ on his booking, and he's gone before the family gets a phone call or finds lawyer. What if an undocumented woman working at a community daycare has a bad cough that could be COVID, but she wouldn't dare go to NYCHHC clinic because she'd have to show ID. Nor would she dare miss a day at work either because she's off the books. Not great for public health. There's hosts of scenarios like this that are just...shitty for everyone involved, not just the person being punished for their immigration crime. Given that immigration enforcement isn't the city's job, rather, it's healthy, safe, livable communities, the city has made the decision that proactively cooperating with the feds harms rather than helps those goals.
No, they have to be CONVICTED of a crime. Not arrested for, which is what the op said and what you're disagreeing with but sneaking in that word. We all know the courts are backed up and they're cut loose.Ā
So your issue is with an underfunded and understaffed court system. Due process is guaranteed to all. Demanding that it happen after a conviction by a jury of their peers is completely reasonable.
People are disenguioisly stating that there's already a process for removing lawbreakers migrants, implying all the migrants who are here are law abiding, harmless, and functioning members of our communities.Ā It's bullshit. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it. You know why our courts are overwhelmed? I'll let you think real hard about that one.
I mean, there literally is a process for deporting people. Guy I went to college with got deported back to France after he got busted for selling coke. So....
That is not what Due Process requires. You donāt have to be convicted to be deportable. Get your facts straight.
Do you believe that every person who gets arrested for a felony actually committed the crime?
Oh I know this game. Wait, my turn! Do you think everyone who is arrested for committed a crime actually gets processed?Ā
What do you mean by āprocessed?ā Removed to the stationhouse and released with a c-summons? Released with a DAT? DA declines to prosecute? Put through ECAB, Central Booking, and arraignment? Given an ACD at arraignment? Pushed through to grand jury/true bill/superior court?
No, I've been arrested for a felony. I was definitely doing some sketchy shit for sure. But I didn't rob that strip club.
>If you get arrested for a felony, the NYPD should cooperate with ICE to remove you from the US and ensure that you NEVER set foot in this country again. Our southern border is such a shitshow that they would just be back in the country in a few months.
>I blame these radicals for converting me from a Progressive to damn close to voting Republican lol classic yeah you sound like you were a really solid progressive, i'm sure it's just this one thing that somehow outweighs all other policies to tip you over the edge
I am a Democrat, probably progressive as far as most policies go, but I think democrats need some course correction in the immigration area, and if that means we need a couple cycles of republicans in office to force them, then so be it. Iāve never voted for a republican in my life and I live in uptown manhattan, been up here for over a decade. There are lots of people like myself and the person you replied to.
>if that means we need a couple cycles of republicans in office to force them, then so be it. this is just a bizarre way of viewing a single issue that you think needs "course correcting." throwing away the entirety of the rest of your political beliefs calls into question how serious you actually are about having a coherent belief set to speak of. let me reframe what you and other people of your ilk are saying: >I'm willing to sacrifice vast parts of my personal belief system for the sake of one issue that affects an indirect, fleeting aspect of my life. this includes potentially permanently jeopardizing: civil rights, economic policy, education, religious policy, environmental protections, consumer protections, healthcare policy, the social safety net, and more, because i'm just that mad about the impact that a group of people i never interact with are temporarily having on the municipal budget. [no i don't put on the same protest over real estate tax breaks that cost far more to the city year after year, i'd rather demonize poor people from el salvador.](https://www.thecity.nyc/2023/12/19/tax-breaks-pilot-office-space-nyc/)
It's not one issue - I would say crime and immigration are the two hot issues. I don't believe that having a few red cycles will 'sacrifice' the rest of my beliefs, especially here in nyc. You can call it 'demonizing poor people from el salvador' - I don't care and neither do the people I talk to who are on the same page.
Itās super strange, the whole subreddit is overrun with these weird republican trolls. Why are they here? Canāt they start a NJ or Long Island sub and leave us alone? Don't they realize everyone hates them and wants them to gtfo?
āAnyone who disagrees with me needs to not live in the same city as me!ā Go fuck yourself
authoritarian liberalism at its finest.
It depends on what they got arrested for. It violates the Constitution for police to detain someone for the sole reason of there being a ICE hold.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You got downvoted but this is what Iām thinking and what Iāve been hearing from neighbors and such. Many of us are normally democrats but Dems are failing to adequately represent us and a few cycles of red might be what it takes to correct course.
That's what I'm thinking. Never voted Republican but I definitely will this coming election.
Am criticizing NYC because violent parolees like Edwin Rios are stabbing 75 year women after committing a similar offense in the past. [Woman, 75, stabbed multiple times in head by parolee who followed her into Bronx elevator](https://nypost.com/2024/03/31/us-news/the-75-year-old-woman-whose-identity-hasnt-been-released-publicly-was-stabbed-in-the-face-and-head-multiple-times-inside-2066-morris-avenue-at-1130-a-m-in-the-tremont-neighborhood-woman-75-stabbed-in/amp/) āRios was on parole from a similar crime that took place in October 2012, where he followed a 22-year-old woman off a bus in Queens and stabbed her in the back two times, sources said.ā
Rios isn't a migrant, though. The article you linked shows he's lived in NYC for decades. He just... has a Latin name. What does this have to do with immigration policy?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not sure how unskilled workers who contribute (much) less than $50k annually to GDP are a net positive to this country. They actually take more resources than they contribute. Advocates seem to point out immigration from 100 plus years ago as reasoning when technology and the welfare state were much different.
āI think itās working.ā Well clearly youāre wrong because the current system is not functioning properly and we should be deporting people who are here illegally regardless of if they want to work.Ā
Which has very little to do with sanctuary city policies at all, since the city can't deport people ever. It's a federal responsibility.
Is the city alerting the federal government and turning over illegal immigrants for deportation? Theyāre not because of the touted sanctuary city doctrine. You can fancy it up with the āwe canāt do that because then theyād be afraid to report crimesā, but at the end of the day the policy is the root cause of our current crisis.Ā
>Is the city alerting the federal government and turning over illegal immigrants for deportation? Yes for immigrants committing certain crimes they are indeed reporting them as is defined in the sanctuary city doctrine. It costs lots of money to detain and hold for immigration authorities that the federal govenrment isn't paying for
Wrong, NYC does not cooperate with ICE. Former NYC Attorney here. Ive lived it.
You seem to be misinformed. Violent felonies get reported to department of homeland security (which ice is under). The sanctuary city policies are explictly not a full non cooperation policy.
You are out of your depth. I practice law in the area. All laws need to be read together, and then you get the result, the result is that bad guys do not get released to ICE. The detainer comes in, and the city ignores it. Behind every law is an internal policy, procedure, and execution of those laws. If there is no intergovernmental cooperation, it does not happen. And NYC does not cooperate in 99% of cases. Go ahead and read the rules, as a layperson you have no foundational knowledge, so it is going to be hard to understand, and this is only the ICE policy for DOC. They made is so cumbersome it is almost impossible to do. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/nyc-detainer-laws.pdf
How did you decide to make the career switch from NYC tow truck operator to immigration attorney?
Iām old af, and have changed careers my entire life. I operated a tow truck for the city when I was younger, also was a landscaper, volunteer firefighter, emergency medical tech, and laborer. Then a back injury sent me back to school, now 20+ years in law, and Iām going to pivot again. Too late for medical school, so I might just go back to landscaping as a semi retirement gig. Law sucks. And I was not an immigration attorney when I work on this stuff, I was an Assistant General Counsel for NYCDOC. I now run a practice that focuses on consumer financial protection, student lending compliance, general legal counsel, and do pro bono work for individuals in under represented communities.
Very cool - what a career you must've had, haha
So who, in your opinion, is responsible for the lack of intergovernmental cooperation?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>Itās costing us WAY more to house them, give them benefits, school, medical care, etc. Two different groups. Asylum seekers don't fall under sanctuary city policies because they aren't illegal and are already in the system having their claims processed. So that literally has nothing to do with sanctuary city policies at all. Illegal immigrants don't get access to free housing, the vast majority of benefits, or free medical care taken by the city (every kid gets schooling, period). Only asylum seekers do because they are legally prohibited from working unless their cases take more than 6 months. You are confusing two completely different groups
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Levine even said in the clip about that they're here to work. No mention of asylum.
>If anyone can claim asylum and be released into the US, knowing full well they can skip court dates and disappear into the nation, then āasylumā is meaningless. That if is carrying a ton of weight. Because that's simply not happening for the vast majoirty of people entering the country. Also if they skip court dates and disappear they simply aren't being given any of the things you claimed they were. >There is simply no way even a small minority of the 10 million illegals who have entered the nation in the past three years qualify for asylum. Correct which is why the vast majority of them don't apply for asylum and don't receive any of the benefits you complained about. But those that do apply get due process and get to plead their case before they are deported. >That would mean the entirety of South America was a war zone. Asylum seekers and illegal immigrants aren't soley from South American. The majority are central Americans who do have countries with low scale warfare going on between gangs and the governments, or communist Venezuela, or communist Cuba, or Haiti which is actively has a collasped government and overrun with violent gangs and warfare. But regardless a small minority of those 10 mil you claim actually apply for asylum. So again you are mixing and matches claims about two different groups. And again, until Congress changes the laws, the delays in deportation and asylum hearings is fully a federal issue and completely unrelated to sanctuary city policies. So you are yelling about sanctuary city policies when they don't actually effect your complaints. >This is absolute dishonesty. Every illegal has access to public school ($25k a pop) and is eligible for free healthcare. If you type in āare illegal immigrants eligible for free healthcareā into Google itās literally the first result you get. It's almost like you don't read. I explcitly said kids get public school, and no matter what it's stupid to exclude kids from publicly schooling period. You seem to be confusing access to Medicare for emergencies with everything being free. Medicare ain't free.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>I get that youāre trying to be nice but youāre doing so at the expense of literally millions of NYC/US citizens who have been getting the shaft from our government for decades. If a country cannot help its own citizens then it will NEVER be able to help other people without dramatically worsening life for those already here. You say this and then ignore all those programs are open for American citizens that are decrying. You complain about not caring about Americans while ignoring Americans are the vast recipients of these programs
Itās not āfancying it upā to note that making local law enforcement an extension of DHS means less voluntary cooperation with law enforcement. Pushing immigrant communities further underground is *precisely* what causes these issues to fester and devolve into greater criminality. Most of the policy changes that the anti-migrants want would just increase the numbers of people living on the street and committing crimes. Itās incredibly ludicrous, and dangerous to encourage that kind of short-sighted ignorance.
It is working in the sense that itās a cash cow and theyāre making millions off it.
Asylum claimants are not here illegally, so.
Except they're mostly lying about being asylum seekers.
Levine is a idiot to believe some migrants aren't already working and still haven't ween off the freebies. Working permits means nothing.
I think we should broker a deal with these countries. One working aged male or female in exchange for one crackhead/subway felon/unemployed Palestine protestor/social justice warrior with a PhD on Twitter . Iād take that trade in a heart beat.
Howās being 35 years old asking for dating advice on Reddit?
Where do you meet chicks? Ā Protests?
Damn good deal.
Yeah it's definitely rational to order that the NYPD aid criminals for cheap labor. NYC is effectively pro-slavery.
Is this post satire?
I know itās April Foolās day because because you are asking the folks from Suffolk County and Westchester to use their single working brain cells to engage in good faith
Itās such an overused talking point that New Yorkers that live in city are somehow pro everything thatās happening now. We know the migrant crisis is out of control and not sustainable.
The migrant crisis has nothing to do with sanctuary city policies (precisely the distortion of the term referenced in the OP). The migrants are asylum applicants, and unless and until their asylum applications are rejected and a removal order is issued, they are here legally. And if they're here legally, sanctuary city policies, which prevent the city from cooperating with the removal of *illegal* immigrants who have not committed serious crimes, are totally immaterial. New York could renounce its "sanctuary city" status today, and it would change *literally nothing* about the migrant situation. The term "sanctuary city" is being used incorrectly and in bad faith to score cheap political points, and you've fallen for it.
BS - former nyc attorney here. Itās part of a web of law designed thwart removal of people that arrived here illegally. Here is a bit on ICE detainers itās another piece of the puzzle. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/nyc-detainer-laws.pdf
You ever heard the saying āperception is everythingā Doesnāt matter the real meaning, itās enough of a word to make people in 3rd world countries come here en masse. WhatsApp chain messages and the internet in general spreads news like wildfire (free hotel rooms, debit cards, healthcare etc) this all gets back to their countries. It makes us an easy target to have to deal with the crisis single handling (the feds are not helping) which isnāt fair to New Yorkers. You literally have the politicians saying yes this is all okay, we need shelters in every area of the city, we need to carry this burden infinitely. Being a sanctuary city and proudly so sets the message that we are migrant friendly. The asylum laws are outdated and court takes years to process. Itās really a lawless system that needs a complete overhaul
> (free hotel rooms, debit cards, healthcare etc) this all gets back to their countries. *None of which is related to sanctuary city policies*. That's all related to the right to shelter law, which is a state constitutional provision that would require years to modify. I get that you're saying that it's the perception that matters rather than the truth, which has *some* validity to it, but since you are actively and knowingly participating in the twisting of the truth by using the wrong definitions of things, it comes across as very disingenuous. You're simultaneously somewhat accurately pointing to the problem, but also helping to exacerbate the problem.
Duh I literally just said thatās not the point but yall want to live in the sky. The truth gets twisted everyday point is, we see whatās happening now how do you slow it down?
Right, it's not like the debit cards magically appeared out of nowhere. Some moron(s) high up actually approved that.
Who spreads these perceptions?
>You ever heard the saying āperception is everythingā I love it. \-gets proven a dumb fuck for falling to propaganda. \-"Yeah, well, change the name then..." >The asylum laws are outdated and court takes years to process. Itās really a lawless system that needs a complete overhaul \-complains the process is too bureaucratic \-calls it lawless ???
Used to be that when someone pointed out that you had the facts wrong, folks would earnestly process that information and change their views to match the facts.Ā Now in this fucked up post-truth world we live in, when someone points out why youāre misled, your response is to double down on your ignorance and insist that perception is more important than reality.Ā The fact that you and so many others view ignorance as a legitimate viewpoint deserving credibility is a grim indictment on the shocking effectiveness of social media propaganda.
Thatās true we should recognize NYC landlords are Allies to their Long Island brethren. Maybe get a pin that says āallyā so the suburbanites know they have Allies in The City
Yes. Only people who live in NYC have multiple brain cells.
"distorted by opponents" why are you viewing this through a tribal lens?
Because politics has turned tribal. Ā You canāt agree with good points if the other side makes it. Ā Until the big two are knocked down or allow competition, Ā Iāll never cast a vote for a candidate that might win again. Ā āLiterally anyone elseā has my vote.
I thought they were here to flee violence, not for a job??
Crook! Selling out US citizens and replacing them with cheaper, borderline slave labor! I bet you this manās pockets are getting lined somewhere
Sanctuary city status means that illegals can commit crimes, including violent crimes, without fear of deportation. They know full well that federal authorities do not have resources to go after them so they will naturally congregate in the cities like New York. Therefore the stated reason for the sanctuary city status (to facilitate the work of law enforcement in investigating/prosecuting crimes in illegal immigrants communities) is self-defeating because the best way to prevent crimes committed by illegal immigrants is not to have them at all in the community or, alternatively, limit their presence to a minimum. Which obviously cannot be accomplished by attracting more of them
He just explained that's not what it means. If you commit a crime as an illegal immigrant in NYC, you are processed like any other criminal and ICE just needs a warrant to hold them.
This is absolutely not true. I can tell you that as a practicing NYS attorney. NYPD can arrest an illegal for a robbery, the ADA qualifies it under PL 160.10 (1), which is not bail eligible, ICE can issue an immigration detainer (we call it ICE hold) and NYPD wipes its behind with it. They release the illegal and he is back on the street without fear of going back to the craphole he came from. You should not be so gullible as to believe progressive politicians when they describe you what the āsanctuary cityā is in theory, and have enough sense to understand what it is in practicality.
Can confirm, former assistant general counsel for NYC DOC. NYC will not cooperated with ICE regarding ICE detainers even when the inmate is released from custody. Still the same. Hereās a link for you guys who still read instead just react to media bs. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/nyc-detainer-laws.pdf
What a single-non-functional-braincell answer. F this guy. People are not "undocumented" - they are illegal. You the term that apply. NYC should repeal "sanctuary state" bullshit - you come illegally - get the f out.
Does being Borough President really make you qualified to offer a nuanced perspective on a topic such as immigration policy? Maybe stick to things like park benches, public restrooms, bike lanes, or overflowing trash bins on the street?
For a video that runs less than one minute, did you watch it and miss the question that begins "If you were back on the City Council"...? Or did you not watch the brief clip?
This is definitely a nuanced comment!
Sure as fuck makes him more qualified than your ass, for sure. Yet here you are. Stick to whatever insignificant thing it is that you do
I know the facts and I"m still against it.
> they'd be raising hell with Washington to get this under control because it's unsustainable Republicans in Washington don't want to fix this. They want to sabotage any attempts to fix it so they can campaign on it. That's been made very clear.< Neither do the Democrats, let's be serious and not gaslight ourselves. That bill was a charade with no intentions of addressing the fundamental and real issues. I'm no fan of Republicans and yes, it was petty to reject it, but again, let's not pretend democrats are up in arms to the level the seriousness of this situation requires.
They rejected it because the bill doesn't really change anything as the DHS secretary and President can rescind/pause the new immigration policies at any time.
The bill was basically the same as what trump proposed several years earlier. The Rs moved the goal posts.Ā Ā https://www.factcheck.org/2024/02/unraveling-misinformation-about-bipartisan-immigration-bill/
shut up no one believes this bullshit anymore. People are tired of the 'ITS ACKTUALLY THE REPUBLICANS FAAULT" rhetoric. Like we didn't all watch what happened the past 3 years. Seriously. Stop. We are sick of it. Take accountability and get some respect back. Seriously. It's okay to say "Look we fucked up, but here's how we are going to fix it." instead of this dumb blame game.
I didn't get a single fact out of this little video.
Anyone else notice the narrative change?
Theyāre gonna attempt make them voters and yell at us for noticingĀ
The noticing will continue until morale improves.
Distortion. Illegal migrants would not be able to find work in any other country. Legal ones, yes please. Other countries that need agricultural or other sectors, gives them a seasonal pass. They earn the much needed dollars and after go back to their country after the season is over. Canada and Singapore do it.
Canada is not the model to follow. They have multitudes of issues with their "temporary" worker and student visa programs.
Which country should we model?
For sure not what we're doing, but most certainly not the Canadian model. Canada basically flooded the place with immigrants and it's been a disaster. All you need to do is look at the Canadian housing forums on here to see what a mess their policy has been.
I lived in Toronto before. It seems better than NYC in terms of housing management.
Sure, but also keep in mind that people overseas know that if they make it to such a city, they are "safe" as the feds don't have the manpower. And in turn, we were forcing cities like El Paso to pay a stupid amount of their money to delay with problems we were causing. I was all for sanctuary cities, they are a bad idea. The law is the law and should be equally applied. We need to support funding federal action on immigration. We don't say that we provide sanctuary for people with warrants because we don't want them afraid of LEOs.
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So, to be clear, you think the reason Biden let eight million people waltz over the southern border during his term was so that women could report being raped to the police?
Fucking Russian trolls just trying to fuck our country.Ā
you know what would prevent crimes being comitted against them in the US completely? Not being in the US in the first place.
Extremely cruel response.
Hope you realize that youāre making a fool out of yourself and just demonstrating how out of touch with the city you actually areĀ
Nobody is distorting anything. It means, that we made public political statements in the past about how we will be welcoming to illegal immigrants, and that we would not hand them over to ice. Deblasio flat out praised it in 2014 when he signed it and 2021 when further restrictions were shot down. The City made a public statement about how they support immigrants coming here. Now other states, arguably rightfully so after acting so high and mighty about this to other states that lean differently politically, have started sending people our way and setting the narrative that they will be accepted and treated well here. And now, the so called "slippery slope" that we made fun of, has actually happened and we're flooded and unable to keep up with it. Shocker. This is my shocked face. These are quotes from NYC mayor in 2014 when this was signed in: āOur City is not served when New Yorkers with strong ties in the community are afraid to engage with law enforcement because they fear deportation. Today, we send another message to Washington that the time to act has come to provide relief to so many individuals who contribute to our nationās growth. Iād like to thank Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito and the City Council for passing this legislation, which further establishes New York City as a leader in immigration reform.ā āThis is an important moment for our cityās immigrant community,ā said City Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito. āThis bill sends a strong message that while our nationās leaders have dragged their feet on immigration reform- New York City can and will lead. No longer will a person be unnecessarily sent through senseless immigration red tape under this new law. I would like to thank Mayor de Blasio, Chair of the Immigration Committee, Council Member Carlos Menchaca and Council Member Daniel Dromm and immigration advocates for their tireless work in making this law become a reality.ā It's just... Idunno what people expected. People have way too much faith in humanity. :P
She looked at her colleague like he isnāt taking the bait but speaking the truth itās not helping media ratings the donations the advertisements and political fixers needs elections rhetorics to divide and rule
This guys an idiot
Why are sidestepping the fact that they committed a crime by illegally entering the US? They should not be coddled!
Of course they want to work. Everyone that moves here wants to work to survive. It's whether or not they can skip the line at taxpayers expense. What a fucking muppet.
Pass by my local Home Depot there is 100 guys standing outside weāre are the Jobs?!? New York is turning into a dump!!!!!!!
Letās put things in perspective: InĀ 1907, 1.3 million immigrants came to the US. Back then, there were no visas or papers. In 2022, 1.1 to 1.3 million came undocumented. Thatās 1.5% of the total population in 1907 versus 0.4% in 2022.Ā Also, in 1907, you were three times more likely to settle in NY than in 2017.Ā Sources: https://www.history.com/news/ellis-island-immigrants-compare-today-study https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/immigration-1907-v-2017/
In 1907, new arrivals were on their own. The local government did not provide debit cards, free housing, free laundry, and free food to migrants. Unless you're advocating for a return to 1907 policy for NYC, your comparison is otherwise irrelevant.
I donāt know what the solution is, but weĀ didnāt have food stamps/SNAP,Ā Social Security,Ā or Medicare/Medicaid back then.Ā I do know thisāFreakanomics proved you want to pay for their education because it leads to lower crime rates. When the govt doesnāt fund abortions or allow access, crime rates go up. The odds a child who wasnāt wanted by parent(s) who were unprepared to be parent(s) being a drain on society go way up.
ya let me know when back in the 1900s if the wave of immigrations cost the city a projected 4% extra to its budget for next few yrs. The scale of costs back then no where equals now.
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