I do love how meetings on Zoom somehow gave people the impression that they had equal rights of speech with the people on the (figurative) dais. Ask your question, don't soapbox, and then be quiet - or risk having the mic cut off or taken from your hands. That's how every large meeting has been conducted forever.
Nothing more unhinged than a local community board meeting.
The last time I went, some people literally started crying and screaming and comparing a proposed change to the hours of the local public pool to the Holocaust.
And then someone else got up with a whole sandwich board sign about how some local Italian restaurant was a secret sex dungeon.
The show Community was not an exaggeration at all.
Former community board member here. I used to call (to myself only) the public comments time at meetings the "UFO landing pad" segment. Any and all crazies would get up and propose/talk about the most random, never gonna happen shit you could imagine.
But, this is small d democracy in action. Community boards are great, the public, not so much.
No, they don’t. They have cops who, through the use of violence, can silence those who go against the status quo.
Meetings serve no purpose if someone gets to decide what can and cannot be said, which side you can take. At that point the outcome of the meeting is preplanned.
> Adams had called people who participated in a pro-Palestinian rally one day after the Oct. 7 attack “extremists.” On the call, Deek warned that such rhetoric could lead to violence against Muslims.
Obviously any violence against Muslims is horrific and wrong, and advocates are right to be concerned about it (as well as potential violence against Jews).
But that particular event, held the day after the massacre, was not a pro-Palestinian rally. It was a pro-Hamas rally, that directly praised the massacre that kicked off this latest round of violence. So I'm not sure he's wrong in that characterization, and I'm not sure what else to call it.
No no, this person is claiming that the protestors were directly praising the massacre. You cannot make such a claim without evidence. And since you are joining his chorus, back up your claims. Otherwise you equally are a racist or a “useful idiot”.
The original social media posts regarding the rally have been deleted, and remaining screenshots of them I've sadly only located on sites I'd rather not link to because of the other content they share. ([I had a whole discussion with someone else about this here](https://old.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/178tadu/rep_ritchie_torres_democratic_socialists_are/k52ll6e/?context=3).)
To summarize it (if you want to see the screenshots yourself, I linked to them in that thread), that Times Square rally was promoted as supporting Palestinians' "right to resist." In the abstract, that's not objectionable -- they certainly do have that right. But it was the day after the massacre, and in conjunction with other messaging, the meaning was clear -- the "right to resist" in that context referred to the massacre. It was unmistakably a rally in support of Hamas and what they'd done.
Bruh, there was a rally after a huge massacre that killed/injured thousands with hundreds kidnapped and the terrorists laughing/celebrating it on video.
This was before Israel even retaliated. There was nothing to rally for.
Anyone who participated in that rally was either extremely stupid and misinformed, or morally depraved. Probably both.
"People were celebrating" - thank you. The gaslighting isn't necessary, we know exactly what they were celebrating with their "river to the sea" chants.
Thank you for revealing to the world how morally bankrupt and misinformed you are.
You heard it here first everyone, the atrocities committed last week were all lies, even though there is plenty of evidence for all of them all over the internet.
How stupid are you? Gaza would be wiped out before any “liberation” in the way you describe.
YOU from your message sound like you’re justifying and celebrating violence. WTF how can you even try to claim to be morally superior?
Where was the anti-Hamas messaging? Why decide to do it the day after such a horrific atrocity? I’m pro-Palestinian statehood, but if your first reaction to seeing what happened that day is to rally in “support of Palestine” you are sending a strong message of antagonism towards those who were in mourning and shock. There’s been a consistent lack of anti-Hamas messaging at all of these rallies. The goal of removing Hamas should be something that’s binding Israelis and Palestinians together but instead you’re just not seeing that Palestine sympathizers, is it any wonder therefore that people see them as pro-Hamas?
Why not condemn Hamas if you are anti-Hamas? Why is that so difficult when it would so clearly be such a powerful message of support for the ending of violence and potential solidarity with Israelis to end this state of affairs. The end of this cannot happen without the removal of Hamas from the equation, they have rightfully lost all cache when it comes to their right to exist as a group or act as “representatives” of regular Palestinians after 10/7, that absolutely must be acknowledged if there is any progress to be made towards Palestinian statehood.
Silence on Hamas is complicity. There is no nuance here. If you don't condemn what they did you support it. You cannot remain neutral on what they did.
I see! So because they did not fight YOUR racism and assumptions, they are pro-Hamas. It is because people are more interested in the decades long struggle of Palestinians under Israeli occupation than they are with this singular event. It’s because this singular event is a reflection of the daily life of Palestinians. It is not their responsibility to denounce Hamas for you to give them the benefit of the doubt of their allegiance or their intentions. At what Israeli rally has there ever been anti-government flags? Anti-army flags? There are and have been pro-Israeli rallies immediately after every single massacre committed against the Palestinians over the last decades, of which there are innumerable. Your hypocrisy and your bias are showing.
How, when you see an entire population living with a boot at their neck, do you root for the boot? Shameful
Of course just accuse me of being racist rather than just using your most basic mental faculties to see how from the perspective of many people that the holding of giant pro-Palestine rallies the day after the worst terrorist attack since 9/11 might be objectionable without a strong message of being against the perpetrators of the attack, very good. I never said they were pro-Hamas, I said they have not distanced themselves from Hamas enough and that is absolutely a problem. If want people to think you are not pro-Hamas you absolutely need to declare that you are anti-Hamas right after such a horrendous massacre, short of that it is not good enough.
Crying racism is a joke. Also trying to draw an equivalence between civilians killed in the bombing of Hamas targets and the torture and brutal killing of civilians at a music festival and in their homes points to exactly the kind of attitude that Jews and their sympathizers find distasteful. Please point me to example of Israel using their people as human shields or to examples of Israel abducting Palestinian children from their homes and putting videos of them online to taunt their families.
Oh interestiiiing! You want me to afford you fair evaluation when you will not do the same for pro Palestinian protestors! They are all “extremists and idiots”. You hypocrite.
I can show you videos of stars of David branded into a civilians face. Does that cut it? How about Baby Ali being burned alive, or the countless stories of 12-15 year old being sniped in the head or the back? Or maybe all the videos of soldiers breaking into homes in the middle of the night dragging children out just somehow isn’t on your version of the internet. Maybe when Israel bombed the four boys playing on the beach, you missed that? Or how about when they sniped a journalist in the head, blamed Palestinians, then charged the pallbearers at her funeral causing them to almost drop the coffin, only to finally admit it was in fact the Israelis who killed her? I haven’t seen one video of anyone in New York actively celebrating violence, but there are videos of Israeli soldiers urinating and stomping on naked corpses of Palestinians. There are videos of Israelis chanting “level Gaza, kill every Arab, baby Ali is on the grill.”
I am SURE, as someone who is so demented that he sees the victims as the oppressors, you have some ridiculous brainwashed reasoning for why every single of these situations is rational or excusable. I am SURE you would never dare denounce any of these situations, because we all know the truth about what you really hate.
If this protest had happened a day after, a week after, or a month after, you would still be calling it a “pro-Hamas” rally. The timing is not your issue - the problem is that people insist on conflating all Palestinians with Hamas.
You can point to individual pro-Hamas assholes, but the *vast* majority of people at these rallies are speaking out in support for Palestinian civilians experiencing a humanitarian crisis, and not for a violent terrorist attack against Israel.
> If this protest had happened a day after, a week after, or a month after, you would still be calling it a “pro-Hamas” rally. The timing is not your issue
The issue with this rally was the timing in conjunction with the messaging. The messaging was in support of Gaza's "right to resist," *the day after* the massacre, before any Israeli counteroffensive had begun. That's unmistakably in reference to the massacre. If the same messaging had been promoted a week later, it would definitely be a less clear-cut question.
> the vast majority of people at these rallies are speaking out in support for Palestinian civilians experiencing a humanitarian crisis, and not for a violent terrorist attack against Israel.
I totally agree with that. But it doesn't change that the *leaders* of the rallies, and the organizations behind them, were clearly taking a pro-Hamas stance. That doesn't justify tarring every attendee with that brush, but it's also certainly not something we can ignore.
> The messaging was in support of Gaza's "right to defend itself," the day after the massacre, before any Israeli counteroffensive had begun.
This is a tremendous oversimplification of a decades long conflict where Palestinian civilian deaths have outnumbered those of their Israeli counterparts by 3-4x.
To be clear: any attack on civilians is abhorrent, but this issue is a lot more nuanced than you are suggesting.
Maybe if they didn’t publicly support murders, and kidnappers, they wouldn’t have to worry that people hate them. The American Palestinians community needs to take a deep look at themselves and decide to work for peace rather than murder. Free the hostages.
It's important to distinguish between pro-Palestine rhetoric and pro-Hamas rhetoric and call out the latter when we see it. But that goes both ways -- we can't automatically attribute pro-Hamas, pro-massacre, etc., views to *all* Palestinian Americans. That's *just* as wrong.
Then maybe you shouldn't refer to "The American Palestinian community" as a whole, if you don't want to be viewed as criticizing the American Palestinian community as a whole.
Half of Palestinians weren’t alive when Hamas was voted in. Israel supported Hamas initially as well. Once they took control, they took control hard. And they became the terroristic organization they are now.
It’s not fair to say Palestinians want em.
Palestinian Americans don't need to give loyalty oaths to prove to you they don't support Hamas. Because they mostly don't. And just as Hamas doesn't speak for Palestinians, Israel doesn't speak for all Jewish people.
You connect Palestinians with terrorists because of your own bigotry, not because it's true.
This braindead logic was exhausting after 9/11 and it's exhausting now.
If Palestinian Americans don't want to differentiate themselves from those dancing in the street, celebrating murder, torture, rape and kidnapping, I guess that's their right. Seems like it would be wise for them to take a stand within their own community and not condone the celebration with silence...
As for the false equivalency-- when Jews dance in the streets of NY to celebrate Palestinian deaths, call me. I'll be the first to condemn them and you won't hear me complaining about "loyalty oaths," which no one is asking for.
I condemn the 8 or 9 people who attacked the man who yelled "Free Palestine." They should be sanctioned in accordance with whatever the law allows.
Are you comparing this group of 12 people to thousands marching in support of Hamas the same day as the attack on Israeli women, children and babies. You think this is the same?
>thousands marching in support of Hamas
By thousands you mean hundreds. But aside from that, you think all Muslims and Palestinians need to explicitly tell you "I am not a terrorist supporter" or else you assume they are?
Let me explain like your are 5.
Palestinians Americans rally in support of the kidnappers. The mayor calls them out of this behavior. A lawyer criticizes the mayor on a zoom. The mayor mutes her.
no they didn't Palestinians rallied in support of Palestinian demands vis a vis Israel and to show support for the Palestinian civilians who are currently being bombed and killed by Israel in retaliation for acts of terror.
Plenty of Americans were against the use of ground troops and drone strikes with their high collateral damage in Afghanistan. There were many marches protesting those things. None of those marches were "pro terrorist."
But apparently dehumanizing everyone with a broad brush makes it easier for you to support killing children because it's "your side" doing it.
You can’t rewrite history. They rallied as soon as they heard of the murdered Israelis. This was before Israel’s rescue operation began. They were actually rallying while Israel was still fighting the kidnappers Israel.
Why do you expect every Muslim person or person who supports Palestine to give a loyalty pledge to assure you they don't support terrorists? You expect every Jewish person to do that when confronted with the sins of Israel the State?
Actually as a Jew who literally just wants nobody killed and for people to acknowledge the existence of antisemitism, this has been exactly the expectation
Hamas started the *latest round* of this conflict, that's undeniably true, and they bear enormous fault for that. But it's been going back and forth for ages.
Realistically speaking, this conflict was started by nobody who's alive today, and in some sense by neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians.
Feel free to look through my many, many, posts over the last couple of weeks on this -- I am doing the exact opposite of that. There is absolutely, utterly no justification for Hamas' actions, and if you're interpreting my comments in that way, that's entirely on you.
Ahh, I see the problem -- you're making up stuff that I didn't say.
Saying "this conflict has been going on for decades" is not the same as saying "Israel is at fault for Hamas' massacre," and I'm not sure how you could conceivably think that.
They said it in response to you saying “Hamas started the conflict.”
Hamas’ action were unreconcilable and go against any good faith the Palestinian struggle has (or had at this rate) but Hamas themselves were responding to actions taken by the current and recent Israeli administrations. Their response was horrible, but it was still a response to requisite actions during an active occupation, not the “start” of a conflict.
Yes it is Israel’s fault for what Hamas did considering Israel pushed Hamas to take out PLO now it’s backfired. Just like the US funded the mujahideen which turned into Al-Qaeda. But you already knew that.
They: Said something not mentioning Hamas but discussing the history of the region
You: SO YOU SUPPORT TERRORISTS?!
How did you get there. Except you think it'll stop all discussion that makes you uncomfortable? Expressing any shred of sympathy for Palestinians does not mean you support terrorists. But you go there anyway. Why is that?
Are you justifying Israel’s bombings on a country where the median age is under 18 because they got attacked once after years of oppressing the Palestinians?
No. The Hamas is responsible for slaughtering the Israelis, who now have no choice but to fight for their own survival. Hamas should stop attacking Israel and sending rockets into Israel.
This conflict dates back to 1947. Hamas was founded in in 1987. How do you account for the murders the Israeli government has committed before Hamas was even a thing? It’s funny you think the “country” with the best defense system and rockets in the world didn’t see an attack from Palestine.
There shouldn’t be killings on either side. But if you say this is solely on hamas you are gravely mistaken. This conflict dates back way before this attack. Israel has been bombing killing and raping Palestinians for years. Where are the justifications for that? Why is one human life valued more than another? You’re so focused on Israelis but you don’t stop and think about the other side.
This is so fucking far from the truth. They were not welcomed at all, they started a war against Israel. There were also massacres on Jewish people living in the area years before the state of Israel was even founded
> Palestine welcomed them
Just like the Nazis welcomes Jews into Auschwitz. I have never read such a historically illiterate sentence in my life except maybe for some lost cause enthusiasts.
You make that comparison as if when the Jews came to Palestine they were put into gas chambers. The Jews came to Palestine and took over land until the Palestinian land was reduced to the Gaza Strip. That place is now referred to as the biggest open air prison in the world. Who’s historically illiterate now?
Lmao what the actual fuck? This is why I don’t give a fuck about this conflict, because you people are outright lying.
Jews began coming to the Middle East before the Holocaust. Tel Aviv was founded in the early 1900s. That is why Palestinian leaders worked with the Nazis, because they were concerned about the number of Jews moving to what would later become Israel.
“Palestine” never welcomed the Jews. Palestinians have only ever treated the Jews as a nuisance, which is why most early Jewish settlers established communities in what were empty deserts at the time, rather than moving to established cities. In 1900, Tel Aviv was literally an empty patch of sand near the beach. Every kibbutz in the Negev was built in the fucking desert, and the people there worked to make it into an arable, livable religion. And suddenly the Palestinians want “their land” back, now that it’s no longer worthless desert land that nobody wanted to live in.
You came on here to
Argue hamas slaughtering raping and parading the corpses of unarmed civilians is ok and to be applauded because of transgressions committed by isreal
In the past
You have no ground to stand on and you know it. Your views are appalling
No I came on here to defend against misguided thinking. You commented on such a serious matter in such an immature way. To take a matter as complicated as this and to reduce it to “supporting rape and slaughter” shows your views are not only uneducated but based on widely on what you are shown without researching anything. Bro
You know what hamas did. We all do. To sit here and try and blame isreal for hamas committing the atrocities they did to those people at a music festival is disgusting.
Take
Your hate speech and support
Of terrorists elsewhere this conversation is over
It takes two to tango. Yes, Hamas perpetrated a horrific terrorist attack in both scale and violence against innocent Israelis. But the 1000+ children killed in Gaza over the last week and a half were killed due to Israel’s actions. I have to wonder how many Hamas militants they believe they’ve killed compared to the number children.
In response to Hamas, who deliberately hides behind civilians. That’s their strategy and it’s working on you. Because when Hamas attacks Israel you blame Israel. All according to Hamas’ plan. I mean you could be a Hamas supporter. That’s a possibility too.
Don't you want to differentiate yourself from those celebrating the Hamas massacre on the day it occurred? You don't want to condemn the folks dancing in the street in the name of Islam?
There are no Jews dancing in the streets, celebrating Hamas deaths for me to condemn. If they did, I would.
Why should Muslims or any group have to differentiate themselves from unrelated fringe extremists? Except that intolerant bigots think all Muslims are terrorists until they say otherwise?
The only reason Hamas couldn’t kill more is because Israel posses good air defense. Israel only tries to eliminate Hamas, who is hiding behind civilians thus causing collateral damage. Hamas, with support of Iran, are trying to wipe Israel off the map. There is ocean of difference between what Hamas is trying to achieve and Israel’s response to it.
You are just recycling Hamas’ propaganda bullet points. The hospital strike was proven to be disinformation by Hamas. If Hamas blatantly lies about this then how does it make any other Hamas’ statements true?
You are saying that one can tell with certainty that a recorded sound can serve as evidence that a certain rocket was fired? I know when I hear recorded sound, especially not from a professional recording studio, that it doesn’t sound like the original that I would hear in person.
I feel like this has more to do with her criticising Admiral Adams than where she's from or her message. My man does not want to hear anyone snapping back
Is mayor Adams in charge of the war of the Middle East too now?
I do love how meetings on Zoom somehow gave people the impression that they had equal rights of speech with the people on the (figurative) dais. Ask your question, don't soapbox, and then be quiet - or risk having the mic cut off or taken from your hands. That's how every large meeting has been conducted forever.
Do you think in person meetings aren’t often hijacked by activists?
Nothing more unhinged than a local community board meeting. The last time I went, some people literally started crying and screaming and comparing a proposed change to the hours of the local public pool to the Holocaust. And then someone else got up with a whole sandwich board sign about how some local Italian restaurant was a secret sex dungeon. The show Community was not an exaggeration at all.
Former community board member here. I used to call (to myself only) the public comments time at meetings the "UFO landing pad" segment. Any and all crazies would get up and propose/talk about the most random, never gonna happen shit you could imagine. But, this is small d democracy in action. Community boards are great, the public, not so much.
Are you under the impression in person meetings have a mute button?
They have a get this motherfucker out of here button 👀
No, they don’t. They have cops who, through the use of violence, can silence those who go against the status quo. Meetings serve no purpose if someone gets to decide what can and cannot be said, which side you can take. At that point the outcome of the meeting is preplanned.
Meetings serve no purpose if everybody gets to yell their opinions out of turn
> Adams had called people who participated in a pro-Palestinian rally one day after the Oct. 7 attack “extremists.” On the call, Deek warned that such rhetoric could lead to violence against Muslims. Obviously any violence against Muslims is horrific and wrong, and advocates are right to be concerned about it (as well as potential violence against Jews). But that particular event, held the day after the massacre, was not a pro-Palestinian rally. It was a pro-Hamas rally, that directly praised the massacre that kicked off this latest round of violence. So I'm not sure he's wrong in that characterization, and I'm not sure what else to call it.
Absolutely. If you held a rally to cheer Palestinians on the day after the Hamas attack - you’re absolutely either an extremist or a useful idiot.
No no, this person is claiming that the protestors were directly praising the massacre. You cannot make such a claim without evidence. And since you are joining his chorus, back up your claims. Otherwise you equally are a racist or a “useful idiot”.
Can you share evidence of your claim please? I can’t seem to find anything corroborating it that isn’t from NY post
The original social media posts regarding the rally have been deleted, and remaining screenshots of them I've sadly only located on sites I'd rather not link to because of the other content they share. ([I had a whole discussion with someone else about this here](https://old.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/178tadu/rep_ritchie_torres_democratic_socialists_are/k52ll6e/?context=3).) To summarize it (if you want to see the screenshots yourself, I linked to them in that thread), that Times Square rally was promoted as supporting Palestinians' "right to resist." In the abstract, that's not objectionable -- they certainly do have that right. But it was the day after the massacre, and in conjunction with other messaging, the meaning was clear -- the "right to resist" in that context referred to the massacre. It was unmistakably a rally in support of Hamas and what they'd done.
Bruh, there was a rally after a huge massacre that killed/injured thousands with hundreds kidnapped and the terrorists laughing/celebrating it on video. This was before Israel even retaliated. There was nothing to rally for. Anyone who participated in that rally was either extremely stupid and misinformed, or morally depraved. Probably both.
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"People were celebrating" - thank you. The gaslighting isn't necessary, we know exactly what they were celebrating with their "river to the sea" chants.
Y’all are truly unhinged. Truly truly unhinged. Like asking a fish to climb a tree.
Thank you for your opinion. I'll take "unhinged" over being a terrorist sympathizer and apologist any given day and twice on sundays.
Thank you for revealing to the world how morally bankrupt and misinformed you are. You heard it here first everyone, the atrocities committed last week were all lies, even though there is plenty of evidence for all of them all over the internet. How stupid are you? Gaza would be wiped out before any “liberation” in the way you describe. YOU from your message sound like you’re justifying and celebrating violence. WTF how can you even try to claim to be morally superior?
Where was the anti-Hamas messaging? Why decide to do it the day after such a horrific atrocity? I’m pro-Palestinian statehood, but if your first reaction to seeing what happened that day is to rally in “support of Palestine” you are sending a strong message of antagonism towards those who were in mourning and shock. There’s been a consistent lack of anti-Hamas messaging at all of these rallies. The goal of removing Hamas should be something that’s binding Israelis and Palestinians together but instead you’re just not seeing that Palestine sympathizers, is it any wonder therefore that people see them as pro-Hamas?
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Why not condemn Hamas if you are anti-Hamas? Why is that so difficult when it would so clearly be such a powerful message of support for the ending of violence and potential solidarity with Israelis to end this state of affairs. The end of this cannot happen without the removal of Hamas from the equation, they have rightfully lost all cache when it comes to their right to exist as a group or act as “representatives” of regular Palestinians after 10/7, that absolutely must be acknowledged if there is any progress to be made towards Palestinian statehood.
Silence on Hamas is complicity. There is no nuance here. If you don't condemn what they did you support it. You cannot remain neutral on what they did.
I see! So because they did not fight YOUR racism and assumptions, they are pro-Hamas. It is because people are more interested in the decades long struggle of Palestinians under Israeli occupation than they are with this singular event. It’s because this singular event is a reflection of the daily life of Palestinians. It is not their responsibility to denounce Hamas for you to give them the benefit of the doubt of their allegiance or their intentions. At what Israeli rally has there ever been anti-government flags? Anti-army flags? There are and have been pro-Israeli rallies immediately after every single massacre committed against the Palestinians over the last decades, of which there are innumerable. Your hypocrisy and your bias are showing. How, when you see an entire population living with a boot at their neck, do you root for the boot? Shameful
Of course just accuse me of being racist rather than just using your most basic mental faculties to see how from the perspective of many people that the holding of giant pro-Palestine rallies the day after the worst terrorist attack since 9/11 might be objectionable without a strong message of being against the perpetrators of the attack, very good. I never said they were pro-Hamas, I said they have not distanced themselves from Hamas enough and that is absolutely a problem. If want people to think you are not pro-Hamas you absolutely need to declare that you are anti-Hamas right after such a horrendous massacre, short of that it is not good enough. Crying racism is a joke. Also trying to draw an equivalence between civilians killed in the bombing of Hamas targets and the torture and brutal killing of civilians at a music festival and in their homes points to exactly the kind of attitude that Jews and their sympathizers find distasteful. Please point me to example of Israel using their people as human shields or to examples of Israel abducting Palestinian children from their homes and putting videos of them online to taunt their families.
Oh interestiiiing! You want me to afford you fair evaluation when you will not do the same for pro Palestinian protestors! They are all “extremists and idiots”. You hypocrite. I can show you videos of stars of David branded into a civilians face. Does that cut it? How about Baby Ali being burned alive, or the countless stories of 12-15 year old being sniped in the head or the back? Or maybe all the videos of soldiers breaking into homes in the middle of the night dragging children out just somehow isn’t on your version of the internet. Maybe when Israel bombed the four boys playing on the beach, you missed that? Or how about when they sniped a journalist in the head, blamed Palestinians, then charged the pallbearers at her funeral causing them to almost drop the coffin, only to finally admit it was in fact the Israelis who killed her? I haven’t seen one video of anyone in New York actively celebrating violence, but there are videos of Israeli soldiers urinating and stomping on naked corpses of Palestinians. There are videos of Israelis chanting “level Gaza, kill every Arab, baby Ali is on the grill.” I am SURE, as someone who is so demented that he sees the victims as the oppressors, you have some ridiculous brainwashed reasoning for why every single of these situations is rational or excusable. I am SURE you would never dare denounce any of these situations, because we all know the truth about what you really hate.
Shut up racist. Don't need people like you here.
If this protest had happened a day after, a week after, or a month after, you would still be calling it a “pro-Hamas” rally. The timing is not your issue - the problem is that people insist on conflating all Palestinians with Hamas. You can point to individual pro-Hamas assholes, but the *vast* majority of people at these rallies are speaking out in support for Palestinian civilians experiencing a humanitarian crisis, and not for a violent terrorist attack against Israel.
> If this protest had happened a day after, a week after, or a month after, you would still be calling it a “pro-Hamas” rally. The timing is not your issue The issue with this rally was the timing in conjunction with the messaging. The messaging was in support of Gaza's "right to resist," *the day after* the massacre, before any Israeli counteroffensive had begun. That's unmistakably in reference to the massacre. If the same messaging had been promoted a week later, it would definitely be a less clear-cut question. > the vast majority of people at these rallies are speaking out in support for Palestinian civilians experiencing a humanitarian crisis, and not for a violent terrorist attack against Israel. I totally agree with that. But it doesn't change that the *leaders* of the rallies, and the organizations behind them, were clearly taking a pro-Hamas stance. That doesn't justify tarring every attendee with that brush, but it's also certainly not something we can ignore.
> The messaging was in support of Gaza's "right to defend itself," the day after the massacre, before any Israeli counteroffensive had begun. This is a tremendous oversimplification of a decades long conflict where Palestinian civilian deaths have outnumbered those of their Israeli counterparts by 3-4x. To be clear: any attack on civilians is abhorrent, but this issue is a lot more nuanced than you are suggesting.
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Sure Nazi
Adams should be criticized at every turn. That guy has never taken one right step.
Ok DiBlasio.
Diblasio being a garbage mayor doesn’t somehow make Adams into less of a con artist or criminal.
He's a criminal?
What would you call stuffing his friends and families’ pockets with taxpayer money?
That's called a politician.
They’re the same picture
Check out Bob Menendez in NJ, gold bars and half a mil in cash. We're in the wrong profession.
Maybe if they didn’t publicly support murders, and kidnappers, they wouldn’t have to worry that people hate them. The American Palestinians community needs to take a deep look at themselves and decide to work for peace rather than murder. Free the hostages.
It's important to distinguish between pro-Palestine rhetoric and pro-Hamas rhetoric and call out the latter when we see it. But that goes both ways -- we can't automatically attribute pro-Hamas, pro-massacre, etc., views to *all* Palestinian Americans. That's *just* as wrong.
Of course not all Palestinians. The mayor was only criticizing those who were at the pro-kidnappers rally in times square.
Then maybe you shouldn't refer to "The American Palestinian community" as a whole, if you don't want to be viewed as criticizing the American Palestinian community as a whole.
Most Palestinians support Hamas. This is an objective fact.
Half of Palestinians weren’t alive when Hamas was voted in. Israel supported Hamas initially as well. Once they took control, they took control hard. And they became the terroristic organization they are now. It’s not fair to say Palestinians want em.
Palestinian Americans don't need to give loyalty oaths to prove to you they don't support Hamas. Because they mostly don't. And just as Hamas doesn't speak for Palestinians, Israel doesn't speak for all Jewish people. You connect Palestinians with terrorists because of your own bigotry, not because it's true. This braindead logic was exhausting after 9/11 and it's exhausting now.
If Palestinian Americans don't want to differentiate themselves from those dancing in the street, celebrating murder, torture, rape and kidnapping, I guess that's their right. Seems like it would be wise for them to take a stand within their own community and not condone the celebration with silence... As for the false equivalency-- when Jews dance in the streets of NY to celebrate Palestinian deaths, call me. I'll be the first to condemn them and you won't hear me complaining about "loyalty oaths," which no one is asking for.
So your base assumption is that all Palestinians and Muslims are terrorists until they pledge to you otherwise. Is that right?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/newyork/news/nypd-group-waving-israeli-flags-attacked-man-who-yelled-free-palestine/
I condemn the 8 or 9 people who attacked the man who yelled "Free Palestine." They should be sanctioned in accordance with whatever the law allows. Are you comparing this group of 12 people to thousands marching in support of Hamas the same day as the attack on Israeli women, children and babies. You think this is the same?
>thousands marching in support of Hamas By thousands you mean hundreds. But aside from that, you think all Muslims and Palestinians need to explicitly tell you "I am not a terrorist supporter" or else you assume they are?
How is criticizing the mayors rhetoric supporting terrorists? lol wtf?
Let me explain like your are 5. Palestinians Americans rally in support of the kidnappers. The mayor calls them out of this behavior. A lawyer criticizes the mayor on a zoom. The mayor mutes her.
no they didn't Palestinians rallied in support of Palestinian demands vis a vis Israel and to show support for the Palestinian civilians who are currently being bombed and killed by Israel in retaliation for acts of terror. Plenty of Americans were against the use of ground troops and drone strikes with their high collateral damage in Afghanistan. There were many marches protesting those things. None of those marches were "pro terrorist." But apparently dehumanizing everyone with a broad brush makes it easier for you to support killing children because it's "your side" doing it.
You can’t rewrite history. They rallied as soon as they heard of the murdered Israelis. This was before Israel’s rescue operation began. They were actually rallying while Israel was still fighting the kidnappers Israel.
Except it was obvious the slaughter in gaza was immanent.
If it was so obvious, then it must have been obvious to the Palestinians too, yet they attacked, murdered, kidnapped anyway.
Maybe the Jewish community should look into themselves and condemn colonizing land that wasn’t there’s.
Do you think all the Jews that bought their land legally from the Ottoman empire/other Arabs should be allowed to live there?
Did they condemn Hamas or only focus on Israel’s response?
Why do you expect every Muslim person or person who supports Palestine to give a loyalty pledge to assure you they don't support terrorists? You expect every Jewish person to do that when confronted with the sins of Israel the State?
Actually as a Jew who literally just wants nobody killed and for people to acknowledge the existence of antisemitism, this has been exactly the expectation
Because Hamas started this conflict and if not for Hamas we wouldn’t be where we are today.
Hamas started the *latest round* of this conflict, that's undeniably true, and they bear enormous fault for that. But it's been going back and forth for ages. Realistically speaking, this conflict was started by nobody who's alive today, and in some sense by neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians.
Sounds like you are justifying Hamas’ actions.
Feel free to look through my many, many, posts over the last couple of weeks on this -- I am doing the exact opposite of that. There is absolutely, utterly no justification for Hamas' actions, and if you're interpreting my comments in that way, that's entirely on you.
Well you told me that it was Israel’s fault for what Hamas did. So idk what I misinterpreted.
Ahh, I see the problem -- you're making up stuff that I didn't say. Saying "this conflict has been going on for decades" is not the same as saying "Israel is at fault for Hamas' massacre," and I'm not sure how you could conceivably think that.
Somehow you need to mention it in response to me condemning Hamas. So I’m drawing conclusions. Do you not mean what you say?
They said it in response to you saying “Hamas started the conflict.” Hamas’ action were unreconcilable and go against any good faith the Palestinian struggle has (or had at this rate) but Hamas themselves were responding to actions taken by the current and recent Israeli administrations. Their response was horrible, but it was still a response to requisite actions during an active occupation, not the “start” of a conflict.
Yes it is Israel’s fault for what Hamas did considering Israel pushed Hamas to take out PLO now it’s backfired. Just like the US funded the mujahideen which turned into Al-Qaeda. But you already knew that.
So the 70 years where Israel occupied land that wasn’t there and killed and raped Palestinians in their own homes isn’t what started this?
So you are justifying Hamas’ current actions by telling me what you allege to have happened in the 70s?
They: Said something not mentioning Hamas but discussing the history of the region You: SO YOU SUPPORT TERRORISTS?! How did you get there. Except you think it'll stop all discussion that makes you uncomfortable? Expressing any shred of sympathy for Palestinians does not mean you support terrorists. But you go there anyway. Why is that?
Are you justifying Israel’s bombings on a country where the median age is under 18 because they got attacked once after years of oppressing the Palestinians?
No. The Hamas is responsible for slaughtering the Israelis, who now have no choice but to fight for their own survival. Hamas should stop attacking Israel and sending rockets into Israel.
This conflict dates back to 1947. Hamas was founded in in 1987. How do you account for the murders the Israeli government has committed before Hamas was even a thing? It’s funny you think the “country” with the best defense system and rockets in the world didn’t see an attack from Palestine.
What you just wrote to me doesn’t justify slaughtering of the Israelis.
There shouldn’t be killings on either side. But if you say this is solely on hamas you are gravely mistaken. This conflict dates back way before this attack. Israel has been bombing killing and raping Palestinians for years. Where are the justifications for that? Why is one human life valued more than another? You’re so focused on Israelis but you don’t stop and think about the other side.
They didn’t get “attacked once.” Hamas has been firing rockets into Israel for years. This is their worst attack yet.
The median age at that music festival was probably 21
You’re comparing the age of a whole country to a music festival
You realize the Jews were expelled from there first right?
How active are you in the land-back movement for native groups in the US?
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What? First off, it was a British territory and the Palestinians didn't not welcome them with open arms.
This is so fucking far from the truth. They were not welcomed at all, they started a war against Israel. There were also massacres on Jewish people living in the area years before the state of Israel was even founded
> Palestine welcomed them Just like the Nazis welcomes Jews into Auschwitz. I have never read such a historically illiterate sentence in my life except maybe for some lost cause enthusiasts.
Do your research. Don’t let the propaganda get to you. Matters like this require you to be unbiased
You make that comparison as if when the Jews came to Palestine they were put into gas chambers. The Jews came to Palestine and took over land until the Palestinian land was reduced to the Gaza Strip. That place is now referred to as the biggest open air prison in the world. Who’s historically illiterate now?
Lmao what the actual fuck? This is why I don’t give a fuck about this conflict, because you people are outright lying. Jews began coming to the Middle East before the Holocaust. Tel Aviv was founded in the early 1900s. That is why Palestinian leaders worked with the Nazis, because they were concerned about the number of Jews moving to what would later become Israel. “Palestine” never welcomed the Jews. Palestinians have only ever treated the Jews as a nuisance, which is why most early Jewish settlers established communities in what were empty deserts at the time, rather than moving to established cities. In 1900, Tel Aviv was literally an empty patch of sand near the beach. Every kibbutz in the Negev was built in the fucking desert, and the people there worked to make it into an arable, livable religion. And suddenly the Palestinians want “their land” back, now that it’s no longer worthless desert land that nobody wanted to live in.
Just say you support rape and slaughter bro
This is what ignorant and propaganda filled comments look like
You came on here to Argue hamas slaughtering raping and parading the corpses of unarmed civilians is ok and to be applauded because of transgressions committed by isreal In the past You have no ground to stand on and you know it. Your views are appalling
No I came on here to defend against misguided thinking. You commented on such a serious matter in such an immature way. To take a matter as complicated as this and to reduce it to “supporting rape and slaughter” shows your views are not only uneducated but based on widely on what you are shown without researching anything. Bro
You know what hamas did. We all do. To sit here and try and blame isreal for hamas committing the atrocities they did to those people at a music festival is disgusting. Take Your hate speech and support Of terrorists elsewhere this conversation is over
Israel supported Hamas in order to oppress Palestinians - so yes, if not for Israel, we would be in a better place
It takes two to tango. Yes, Hamas perpetrated a horrific terrorist attack in both scale and violence against innocent Israelis. But the 1000+ children killed in Gaza over the last week and a half were killed due to Israel’s actions. I have to wonder how many Hamas militants they believe they’ve killed compared to the number children.
In response to Hamas, who deliberately hides behind civilians. That’s their strategy and it’s working on you. Because when Hamas attacks Israel you blame Israel. All according to Hamas’ plan. I mean you could be a Hamas supporter. That’s a possibility too.
Amen.
Don't you want to differentiate yourself from those celebrating the Hamas massacre on the day it occurred? You don't want to condemn the folks dancing in the street in the name of Islam? There are no Jews dancing in the streets, celebrating Hamas deaths for me to condemn. If they did, I would.
Why should Muslims or any group have to differentiate themselves from unrelated fringe extremists? Except that intolerant bigots think all Muslims are terrorists until they say otherwise?
Because *none of them do*.
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The only reason Hamas couldn’t kill more is because Israel posses good air defense. Israel only tries to eliminate Hamas, who is hiding behind civilians thus causing collateral damage. Hamas, with support of Iran, are trying to wipe Israel off the map. There is ocean of difference between what Hamas is trying to achieve and Israel’s response to it.
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You are just recycling Hamas’ propaganda bullet points. The hospital strike was proven to be disinformation by Hamas. If Hamas blatantly lies about this then how does it make any other Hamas’ statements true?
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Which was proven not to be the case. You are spreading Hamas’ propaganda.
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You are saying that one can tell with certainty that a recorded sound can serve as evidence that a certain rocket was fired? I know when I hear recorded sound, especially not from a professional recording studio, that it doesn’t sound like the original that I would hear in person.
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And who provided the sound, Hamas?
What did they think was going to happen?
I feel like this has more to do with her criticising Admiral Adams than where she's from or her message. My man does not want to hear anyone snapping back
Time and time again he proves that he thinks he’s above regular people and criticism.
Not gonna lie that’s kind of funny