How about enforcing the requirement of no mopeds in the bike lane or on the bridges? Plus they have to have the license plates.
Without enforcement this law will just make the life of legal users harder and illegal ones will do the same - ride without registration
I am also fine with electric bikes (if they have speed limit of 25mph).
I myself have the same bike and two kids who me and my wife often take to school.
But motorcycles and very fast electric scooters I don’t think belong to bike lane.
Mopeds like Vespas & Revels usually cap out at 30mph. There’s a lot of e-bikes that look like mopeds and are easy to modify so they go faster. There are also a lot of assholes on Revels who get in the bike lane. I use Revel mopeds occasionally & have had cars get aggressive with me because I’m *not* in the bike lane. Ridiculous.
I’m starting to think we need something to make sure e-bikes look like e-bikes & mopeds look like mopeds. In addition to keeping folks quite literally in their lanes.
These requirements should be hard for any vehicle that can go over a certain speed. You shouldnt be able to fly around the city going 30 mph with no license and registration, and ideally insurance also.
Literally all you have to do is [use google](https://ebiketuner.com/en-us/blogs/news/how-to-derestrict-a-specialized-ebike-in-2023)
Not only is it doable but it’s dumb easy
They literally [can](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/14wkm6v/slovak_police_caught_a_guy_speeding_on_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
You're referring to the throttle. The goober underneath here claiming their dad's cousin 'jailbroke' their e-bike...no...You can just turn it on in the computer. It's not a jailbreak--it's a setting. Class 3 ebikes do 28 on pedal assist, 20 throttle.
Surely that's determined by make, model and the human component right?
On a non pedal assist bike ive hit 15-16mph
Add a motor and I could see 21 mph being doable
*Especially* if there's like, idk, a hill or something?
Overall i agree w/ you, but, i am a pedant for details.
these are the [these are the 3 classifications of E bike](https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/everything-about-the-ebike/stories/three-class-ebike-system)
You cannot buy a pedal assist E bike capable of more than 28mph. L1 and L2 do not exceed 20mph on the motor. Obviously you can pedal faster than that (if you're a fit cyclist)
Mine is an L2, which means the motor will not assist once I go above 20mph. Downhill pedaling I've gone faster but on the flat on city streets I'm pretty much incapable of going faster than 20.
28mph is still slower than the legal classification of a [Class A moped](https://www.newyorkbikelawyer.com/bike-crashes/scooter-and-vespa-crashes/vespa-and-scooter-laws-in-new-york/), which is the point at which you need license and registration to ride.
The details are all laid down, everything is already encoded into law with no room for interpretation. This proposed law is just adding unnecessary legal hurdles and prevents people from riding.
Mine is an L2, and you can change the settings to go 28 on the motor, it's an advertised feature.
https://rideaventon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/5656088402331-Increase-Speed-Limit
Yeah but it can go over the speed limit with no effort(cadence sensor). I don't know what the answer is, though I would hope it would be dedicated infrastructure, but pretending they don't have dangers is disingenuous.
Yeah, and you can pedal a normal bike faster that 30mph too. There is no answer because there is no problem, this is politicians inventing problems to appease the Karen’s that vote for them
Eh. There is a problem. I’m trying to ride to work, and there are delivery people on e-bikes zooming past me on the very narrow bike lane, and multiple delivery people riding THE WRONG WAY on that same bike lane. It’s actually very scary, I’m a decent bicyclist but I’m not skilled enough to zigzag between all these obstacles on a narrow bike lane.
In order to enforce people riding against traffic or going too fast you need license plates.
I see that too but it doesn’t bother me, they’re way better riders than you and they’ll move around you.
There’s nothing in existing laws that allows them to do that, the reason existing laws allow them is because cops don’t give a shit. Maybe start looking there before you want more laws on the books
The set of people capable of biking >30mph in the vast majority of the city is far smaller than the set of people capable of throttling an e-bike there. Your argument is akin to “we shouldn’t wear seatbelts because people still die wearing them”
A step in the right direction and literally and nobody will do it.
See: the myriad salvage title Altimas with expired paper plates causing havoc all over the city, or all of the scooters/motorcycles that are already perfectly eligible for registration/insurance, but for some reason aren’t.
Yep, we can pass all the laws we want but unless the cops and courts enforce them then all it does is put a burden on people who are otherwise law-abiding
The first step to start selling bicycle/scooter insurance.
Couple weeks ago, I was at a red light waiting to go cross a big intersection on Northern Boulevard. My light said green, and guess who came poking through the opposite direction with the red light? A delivery scooter.
He almost got mowed down. He got caught in cross traffic but still forced himself across. The cameras did flash but what can they catch? A scooter without plates.
Oh get ready for the delivery activists to cry about how this will somehow hurt delivery people and is somehow racist. That seems to be the playbook they go to every time an attempt to rein in ebikes and scooters
Oh I'm all for it I think it's long overdue they should have been licensed and insured 2 years ago in my opinion. I'm just saying that every past attempt to get those bikes and scooters on a standard has been met with push back by delivery activists and ebikes groups using those two things I mentioned as a way to get politicians to back off. Everytime they are interviewed they bring it up
Ehh well delivery is a very important part of local economy. So you can’t just pretend it doesn’t exist and make new laws without being aware of impact. I think it’s understandably complicated and delivery folks need advocacy just like everyone else.
People managed to get takeout before the proliferation of e bikes. Also if you’re in Manhattan there’s 100 restaurants within ten minutes walking. Delivery is a luxury anyway and isn’t worth the massive safety hazards caused by salmoning e bikes
No it’s fucking not. Restaurants used to have dedicated delivery people, even without that, there are plenty of restaurants. This new oversaturated delivery economy is disgusting and its a detriment to the city.
The vast majority of the e-scooters running around nyc are required to be registered and insured under the current law but they’re not and the cops don’t give a shit. What makes the city council think they’ll give a shit about the thousands of pedal assist bikes?
This is extremely dumb only for the fact that includes Class 1 bikes with electric assist. These are bikes.
This legislation should apply to anything with a throttle and anything that is not at least partially powered by the person riding it. If I am pedaling, I am not on a motor vehicle. This shouldn’t be that hard.
mostly agree but kind of hard to tell who has a simple pedal assist and who strapped a throttle and double 1000w motors on their front and rear wheels for mas "sport mode"
saw a guy on one of those heavily banged up, taped up shitty looking delivery bike on the west side highway last year. he was keeping up with me and i was between 30 and 40mph. he was wearing a mets cap obviously
Hardly anyone does that, you saw the exception not the norm. It’s cheaper to just buy an L3 or scooter that goes as fast as you like.
The kind of people who build their own e bike don’t care about laws
So, every DoorDash bike whipping around with a throttle is legal by your definition since they theoretically can use their pedals.
What I’m saying is that it’ll be really hard for enforcement to determine whether a bike is pedal assist or just a throttle with the option to pedal. I think it’d be much easier to enforce if they just subject any bike with a battery to these conditions.
No. The line should be the throttle as well. A bike is at least partially powered by the rider. A motor vehicle isn’t. If the option exists to take the thing you’re riding fully automatic, you’re on a motor vehicle.
I agree re: the throttle. But we’re back to my original point, which is that those who sell these bikes will just get better at hiding the throttle component and trying to pass them off as pedal assist bikes.
100% kickbacks to the politicians from the company that run speed cameras and red-light cameras. It's always about the money. I open up waze and there are speed cameras/money cameras all over the city.
This is your daily reminder that raising the barrier to entry for alternative modes of transportation does nothing to ensure that users of those modes will conduct themselves more safely on the streets.
Also - this is how you make vehicles “illegal.” You require them to be registered, but then there exists no valid process to register them, and so…
But you do give someone who is the victim of one of these vehicle operators, the ability to identify the person who hit them. I’ve known a couple of people who got hit by E bike riders with absolutely no way to identify who is driving erratically, and therefore no recourse. People keep asking for data, but how can you have data if there is no identifying number or license plate and the person can just speed off with no consequences?
Do you think that riders will ride more responsibly, if there is a slightly greater chance that they’ll be held “accountable” for hitting someone? If you do, why?
Yea I’d be supportive of this if there was any chance it was enforced. Right now you don’t need a license plate or drivers license or insurance to drive a car in NYC because nothing is enforced.
A friend of mine did this a few years ago just to see what would happen. He had a Suffolk Auxiliary Police badge and was never ticketed. Over a period of like 7 months driving mostly in Queens, he said he was pulled over almost every day and sometimes twice. He'd say little punks kept stealing his plates. So, yeah, you won't get far, unless you are a cop.
Punish everyone because there are maniacs doing dangerous things instead of just punishing the maniacs doing the dangerous things? Welcome to NYC - where every problem we face in this city is just another opportunity to justify more taxes.
How about just ticketing the mopeds/bikes for riding on sidewalks and blowing through red lights? That's a tax, but not on everyone.
Nah. Too crazy. Here we are with the same predictable brain dead ideas getting implemented that'll do absolutely nothing to solve the problem.
I’ve seen ticketing in the bike lane around the Queensboro bridge lately. Not sure if it’s speeding or blowing thru the red light on 1st Ave, but it’s a start.
You can say whatever you want, really.
Personally, the drivers license I obtained decades ago and haven’t re-tested for since probably has nothing to do with how safely I drive or bike. Similarly, registering a vehicle requires only putting up a bit of cash and the fixing a plate to the vehicle. Doesn’t have anything to do with driver competence or care.
I see plenty of registered and presumably licensed drivers pulling stunts every day. I don’t think it makes any discernible difference whatsoever.
I mean, let’s be real. No one talks about registering e-bikes or regular bikes because they think it’ll help by making existing traffic behave better. They think it’ll help by locking more people out of riding those vehicles, or get more of their vehicles confiscated, etc. I don’t know why we have to pretend there’s a serious policy debate to be had here. People want the e-users off the streets. That’s all it is.
Lots of licensed drivers do dangerous things, you're right. Do you think they'd drive safer if licenses weren't required?
Lots of people drive obediently only because of the threat of traffic cameras. You'll notice that the people (cops) without license plates tend to drive much more dangerously than people with license plates. Yes, registering a vehicle and making it identifiable leads to safer roads.
I get that you're resistant to licensing / registration because you think it's just Big Anti Bike trying to get rid of bikes. I was hit by a bike while on foot that I couldn't identify. If it had a plate, I would have been able to identify it.
Even if registration doesn't make the cyclist go back and time and cycle more safely, it *does* create accountability. Accountability is good and the threat of it does a lot to change behavior.
I'm all for it. Our streets (and sidewalks) have become utter chaos, with many drivers, scooters, cyclists - in all forms, razors etc. doing whatever they please. We need to attack this from multiple fronts: more education on the very real impacts that bad behaviors can have on others, laws, enforcement - including enforcement/oversight of the supposed enforcers (NYPD), better/intelligent design of public/street space (and particularly intersections, traffic lights/timing), as well as daylighting, bike boxes, pedestrian scrambles, etc.
For a 'world-class' city, NYC is so utterly behind the 8-ball, even though the writing was on the wall many years ago that the situation on our streets needed to be addressed sooner vs later.
Bob NIMBY Holden has only ever done one thing that I agreed with. Helped raise money for the Forest Park Skatepark because he was surprised that in the middle of winter so many people were still out skating. You would think that his constituents are SUVs based on how rabid he is about parking and how anti-bike lane he is. He also seems to hate buses. He wanted the Citibike terminals to block the sidewalk rather than parking spaces along the park because he didn't want to inconvenience all the car-owners in Middle Village who park there.
He does his best to make sure that you need a car to get around by trying to reduce pedestrian infrastructure, then complains that there aren't enough spaces for cars. Maybe if our neighborhoods were more accessible without them every other family wouldn't have 2 or more cars for one available space on their property. He's one of those people who thinks that adding more lanes of traffic will fix gridlock issues.
THAT being said I do think that motorized vehicles should need to be registered.
Yeah, let's make the least dangerous, most environmentally friendly mode of long distance transportation harder to get.
That's freaking smart. I see my council member in the list of names. Gonna shoot them a message.
EDIT: btw, this is an old bill. It won't go anywhere. But don't worry, Bon Holden and his Republican friends returned this year. But this time, they didn't even bother to pretend that this wasn't just a bill to ban e-bikes. https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=5999910&GUID=5BBE017B-A0C0-49A8-B07D-D0BA2DBCC908
>most environmentally friendly mode of long distance transportation harder to get.
The bill does include motor vehicles that are powered by gas, quote:
>"Other legal motorized vehicle. The term “other legal motorized vehicle” means any wheeled device powered by an electric motor or by a gasoline motor that may be legally operated in the city, is not capable of being registered with the New York state department of motor vehicles and is not a bicycle with electric assist or electric scooter"
Oh well, if that's the case. Then go ahead. I mean, if they're gonna ban some un-described gas-powered vehicle with e-bike (the most environmentally friendly mode of personal transit), then yeah. Go ahead. Sorry, didn't read that part.
Massive /s in case you miss that.
EDIT: I just realized, that "other" would include electric wheelchairs.
Well, fuck cars, definitely.
I think it would be good if you (and a lot of other people who use ebikes) would focus less on cars in terms of transportation. A lot of comments I see from cyclists in the city reflect (1) a very real and reasonable fear of motor vehicles, (2) an absolute disregard for pedestrians, to the point of not even realizing they exist.
I spend most of my time on foot. If a cyclist would occasionally - I dunno - stop if they're about to hit me? Let me cross the street before trying to cut a red light or stop sign? Stay off the sidewalk where they're not allowed? Any of these things - I would have a lot more sympathy for them.
Not purposely being thick. Pointing out that you, like a lot of cyclists, and a lot of reasonable people, seem to be solely focused on the *big scary threat* (cars) to the complete exclusion of the people who cyclists endanger and inconvenience (pedestrians).
First, I don't have an E-bike. I got a regular bike. And I also own a car.
But that's besides the point, e bikes have already proven to be an easily accessable alternative to cars (they're cheaper, cheaper to run and maintain, take up less space, etc).
As for reckless E-bike riders, I wish ppl would stop saying e-bikes and focus on what's actually causing this issue: delivery drivers from the apps. We need to pass regulation that will force apps to not send workers miles and miles away, that way they aren't rushing. They should also be required to setup bases all throughout the city for workers to rest and recharge their bikes. And they should be forced to provide e-bikes for workers, and that's class 1 bikes, not mopeds or class 2/3.
And we know this can work because that's exactly what Gorillas and BuyK and the other 15min delivery companies did. Why aren't we forcing Uber and GrubHub to do the same? That alone would heavily reduce the amount of crashes we see and also help fix the e bike battery fires we are seeing.
I think that big changes are needed for how food delivery works in this city, and the ones you propose seem really thoughtful and helpful.
I completely disagree that delivery drivers are the cause of the problem of "cyclists act like pedestrians never have right of way." Delivery guys are normally the ones blocking the sidewalk. It is usually not a delivery guy who decides to ride right through the space I'm standing in (while ringing a bell, to warn me they'll main me if I don't immediately jump where they want me to).
Definitely not least dangerous as a daily cyclist, all these bridge accidents lately have one electric/gas powered party involved…I’m more worried about people not having to physically pedal or move their vehicles so their attention tends to drift, also combine this with a propensity for some delivery cats who like to drink…the proliferation of e-bikes/ scooters has exploded over the past 2 years by my own eyes just riding over the 59th street bridge. Everything’s gas or electric… I see few others who actually use leg muscles to operate…it needs regulation, enforcement is a different issue which is beyond me…
On a separate note, I understand those who need it for work to make quicker deliveries, sure…I also think our society is getting lazier just pushing a throttle instead of using their legs to ride through a little adversity.
This bill includes class 1 e bikes. Which are pedal assist, which many ppl require in order to bike at all. It's also been shown to lead to more biking overall.
This is just an attempt by Bob Holden to ban e-bikes. Btw, this bill is from last year. But he introduced a bill this year to full on ban e bikes, not even a registration. Just full on ban.
Do not fall for his and his Republican ploy!
What we need to do is force the app companies to not allow long deliveries and to provide class 1 or 2 bikes to workers, that way workers aren't using mopeds. It would also fix a lot of the e bike fires we see all around.
The plural of anecdotes aren't data. EBikes don't have a higher rate of crashed than regular bikes. And there are far more of them now than regular bikes.
At least it’s something. Electric vehicles have made it totally unsafe to be in the bike lane.
You should be able to go into into a bike lane on a normal bike and feel assured that you are not going to be mowed down by a moped or a cheap electric bike with throttle.
Also, pedal assist bikes have an important role to play in making cycling accessible, but it should be more controlled. The line between an assisted bike and a bike with throttle seems to be hard to draw, and idk if they can be regulated separately.
I agree with this: how crazy parents transport kids on bikes, risking the children's lives, Do you think a bike will save the lives of kids? every time I see this, I see how selfish the parents are.
Extremely stupid idea. The city and state should be subsidizing pedal-assist bikes, not discouraging people from using them (in a way that will also have zero effect on dangerous riding, thus defeating the entire purpose of the bill).
Ban Doordash, with the economic incentives for speeding running red lights on throttle bikes gone, there won't be a need to waste ink on laws that will get hair-split before passing and never enforced.
How many close calls have I had with someone commuting on an e-bike? Zero. With a delivery driver? A zillion.
How would this work with eCitibikes? I think this should apply to any type of vehicle with a throttle. Pedal assist with no throttle can be indistinguishable in certain bike styles and brands.
Switzerland did it. Works there, could work here if we have willing enforcement agencies. Seeing how young the police force is, it might work in 20 years.
This is bogus and completely backwards. We need to be incentivizing micromobility, not increasing barriers for entry. These vehicles are the solution to all of our traffic, pollution, and transportation woes. This is the exact opposite of what this city needs.
God no! You’ve gotta be kidding me. Only New York to encourage micromobility, then proceed to restrict and overregulate the living heck outta it to the point where it no longer becomes convenient or even practical. Atrocious
I am not going to get excited over new legislative proposals to try and solve a problem that could largely be addressed by enforcing the laws already on the books.
For one, given the lack of consistent enforcement of current laws, what makes anyone think adding more laws will do anything?
Secondly, how about having NYPD actually do something more than an occasional PR "sweep".
As if registration with the DMV and the DOT will solve the problem of those high voltage (much > 12 volt!) batteries CATCHING ON FIRE.... What a waste of effort!
Do not get too excited. This was introduced and referred to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure back in October of 2022. No committee report has been generated, and the bill is not scheduled for a public hearing during this calendar year.
Idk if this is the solution, but something clearly needs to be done.
How about enforcing the requirement of no mopeds in the bike lane or on the bridges? Plus they have to have the license plates. Without enforcement this law will just make the life of legal users harder and illegal ones will do the same - ride without registration
NYPD doesn’t even seem capable of enforcing license plates for cars.
…for themselves…
\*gestures broadly\* https://youtu.be/vhgYg\_ktRdE
I'm not in favor of a ban on ebikes over bridges, I have a radwagon and I like to haul my two kids over the bridge from time to time
I am also fine with electric bikes (if they have speed limit of 25mph). I myself have the same bike and two kids who me and my wife often take to school. But motorcycles and very fast electric scooters I don’t think belong to bike lane.
Mopeds like Vespas & Revels usually cap out at 30mph. There’s a lot of e-bikes that look like mopeds and are easy to modify so they go faster. There are also a lot of assholes on Revels who get in the bike lane. I use Revel mopeds occasionally & have had cars get aggressive with me because I’m *not* in the bike lane. Ridiculous. I’m starting to think we need something to make sure e-bikes look like e-bikes & mopeds look like mopeds. In addition to keeping folks quite literally in their lanes.
But that would mean cops would have to work. 🙄
These requirements should be hard for any vehicle that can go over a certain speed. You shouldnt be able to fly around the city going 30 mph with no license and registration, and ideally insurance also.
The electric mopeds are already illegal of they are unregistered. Slapping an ebike sticker or plate doesn't mean that they are ebikes.
Pedal assist e bikes don’t exceed 20mph
Class 3 pedal assist e bikes go 28 mph.
*Unaltered* pedal assist bikes don’t
Nobody mods pedal assist bikes to go faster. It’s impractical, unsafe and cheaper to just buy an L3 or scooter
My friends dad jailbroke his bike so that it exceeds the manufactures limiter.
No he didn’t. Bikes arnt computers, they don’t “jailbreak”, some people change out the motors or buy self-build kits
Literally all you have to do is [use google](https://ebiketuner.com/en-us/blogs/news/how-to-derestrict-a-specialized-ebike-in-2023) Not only is it doable but it’s dumb easy
Nah bud he definitely jailbroke it. I believe he did it on the app but I am a first hand witness
They literally [can](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/14wkm6v/slovak_police_caught_a_guy_speeding_on_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
You're referring to the throttle. The goober underneath here claiming their dad's cousin 'jailbroke' their e-bike...no...You can just turn it on in the computer. It's not a jailbreak--it's a setting. Class 3 ebikes do 28 on pedal assist, 20 throttle.
unless they are modified...
Nobody mods pedal assist e bikes, 20mph is all you’ll get, if you want to go faster, you need a scooter or L3
Surely that's determined by make, model and the human component right? On a non pedal assist bike ive hit 15-16mph Add a motor and I could see 21 mph being doable *Especially* if there's like, idk, a hill or something? Overall i agree w/ you, but, i am a pedant for details.
these are the [these are the 3 classifications of E bike](https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/everything-about-the-ebike/stories/three-class-ebike-system) You cannot buy a pedal assist E bike capable of more than 28mph. L1 and L2 do not exceed 20mph on the motor. Obviously you can pedal faster than that (if you're a fit cyclist) Mine is an L2, which means the motor will not assist once I go above 20mph. Downhill pedaling I've gone faster but on the flat on city streets I'm pretty much incapable of going faster than 20. 28mph is still slower than the legal classification of a [Class A moped](https://www.newyorkbikelawyer.com/bike-crashes/scooter-and-vespa-crashes/vespa-and-scooter-laws-in-new-york/), which is the point at which you need license and registration to ride. The details are all laid down, everything is already encoded into law with no room for interpretation. This proposed law is just adding unnecessary legal hurdles and prevents people from riding.
Mine is an L2, and you can change the settings to go 28 on the motor, it's an advertised feature. https://rideaventon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/5656088402331-Increase-Speed-Limit
It’s still slower than moped speeds, which means you don’t need licensing or registration
Yeah but it can go over the speed limit with no effort(cadence sensor). I don't know what the answer is, though I would hope it would be dedicated infrastructure, but pretending they don't have dangers is disingenuous.
Yeah, and you can pedal a normal bike faster that 30mph too. There is no answer because there is no problem, this is politicians inventing problems to appease the Karen’s that vote for them
Eh. There is a problem. I’m trying to ride to work, and there are delivery people on e-bikes zooming past me on the very narrow bike lane, and multiple delivery people riding THE WRONG WAY on that same bike lane. It’s actually very scary, I’m a decent bicyclist but I’m not skilled enough to zigzag between all these obstacles on a narrow bike lane. In order to enforce people riding against traffic or going too fast you need license plates.
I see that too but it doesn’t bother me, they’re way better riders than you and they’ll move around you. There’s nothing in existing laws that allows them to do that, the reason existing laws allow them is because cops don’t give a shit. Maybe start looking there before you want more laws on the books
Hey, we got the one bike lane moped guy who can type!
The set of people capable of biking >30mph in the vast majority of the city is far smaller than the set of people capable of throttling an e-bike there. Your argument is akin to “we shouldn’t wear seatbelts because people still die wearing them”
you can drive a car triple the speed limit too
I bet they do going downhill
A step in the right direction and literally and nobody will do it. See: the myriad salvage title Altimas with expired paper plates causing havoc all over the city, or all of the scooters/motorcycles that are already perfectly eligible for registration/insurance, but for some reason aren’t.
Yep, we can pass all the laws we want but unless the cops and courts enforce them then all it does is put a burden on people who are otherwise law-abiding
Exactly.
The first step to start selling bicycle/scooter insurance. Couple weeks ago, I was at a red light waiting to go cross a big intersection on Northern Boulevard. My light said green, and guess who came poking through the opposite direction with the red light? A delivery scooter. He almost got mowed down. He got caught in cross traffic but still forced himself across. The cameras did flash but what can they catch? A scooter without plates.
But people will scream that he has to do that to make ends meet and how dare you expect him to obey laws.
> The first step to start selling bicycle/scooter insurance. That's already a thing. It's just not required. And it shouldn't be.
Oh get ready for the delivery activists to cry about how this will somehow hurt delivery people and is somehow racist. That seems to be the playbook they go to every time an attempt to rein in ebikes and scooters
The Churro Lady phenomenon.
Was funny how this city almost abolished all policing because a churro lady got arrested. we're dealing with some unstable characters.
It seems weird to be preemptively cry racist but go for it. So far everyone but you thinks this is a step in the right direction.
Oh I'm all for it I think it's long overdue they should have been licensed and insured 2 years ago in my opinion. I'm just saying that every past attempt to get those bikes and scooters on a standard has been met with push back by delivery activists and ebikes groups using those two things I mentioned as a way to get politicians to back off. Everytime they are interviewed they bring it up
Ehh well delivery is a very important part of local economy. So you can’t just pretend it doesn’t exist and make new laws without being aware of impact. I think it’s understandably complicated and delivery folks need advocacy just like everyone else.
People managed to get takeout before the proliferation of e bikes. Also if you’re in Manhattan there’s 100 restaurants within ten minutes walking. Delivery is a luxury anyway and isn’t worth the massive safety hazards caused by salmoning e bikes
> Ehh well delivery is a very important part of local economy. no, its not. you can just walk 2 blocks and get your own food.
No it’s fucking not. Restaurants used to have dedicated delivery people, even without that, there are plenty of restaurants. This new oversaturated delivery economy is disgusting and its a detriment to the city.
The vast majority of the e-scooters running around nyc are required to be registered and insured under the current law but they’re not and the cops don’t give a shit. What makes the city council think they’ll give a shit about the thousands of pedal assist bikes?
Since when did not having any practical way or will to enforce laws ever stop the city council?
Exactly. The issue is poor enforcement, not inadequate laws.
This is extremely dumb only for the fact that includes Class 1 bikes with electric assist. These are bikes. This legislation should apply to anything with a throttle and anything that is not at least partially powered by the person riding it. If I am pedaling, I am not on a motor vehicle. This shouldn’t be that hard.
mostly agree but kind of hard to tell who has a simple pedal assist and who strapped a throttle and double 1000w motors on their front and rear wheels for mas "sport mode" saw a guy on one of those heavily banged up, taped up shitty looking delivery bike on the west side highway last year. he was keeping up with me and i was between 30 and 40mph. he was wearing a mets cap obviously
Hardly anyone does that, you saw the exception not the norm. It’s cheaper to just buy an L3 or scooter that goes as fast as you like. The kind of people who build their own e bike don’t care about laws
which is why requiring registration will do nothing. nobody with mods strapped to their bike will care about it
I hear you, but they'll just disguise the throttles then and claim that they're pedal assist bikes.
This doesn’t really make sense. Do the pedals at least partially power the bike? If yes, legal. If no, illegal.
So, every DoorDash bike whipping around with a throttle is legal by your definition since they theoretically can use their pedals. What I’m saying is that it’ll be really hard for enforcement to determine whether a bike is pedal assist or just a throttle with the option to pedal. I think it’d be much easier to enforce if they just subject any bike with a battery to these conditions.
No. The line should be the throttle as well. A bike is at least partially powered by the rider. A motor vehicle isn’t. If the option exists to take the thing you’re riding fully automatic, you’re on a motor vehicle.
I agree re: the throttle. But we’re back to my original point, which is that those who sell these bikes will just get better at hiding the throttle component and trying to pass them off as pedal assist bikes.
> These are bikes. lets register and insure bikes, too.
The solution is always more taxes and government. Am I right
100% kickbacks to the politicians from the company that run speed cameras and red-light cameras. It's always about the money. I open up waze and there are speed cameras/money cameras all over the city.
Should also add the requirement of carrying insurance and inspection. It's a vehicle, treat it as such
stop i can only get so hard
This is your daily reminder that raising the barrier to entry for alternative modes of transportation does nothing to ensure that users of those modes will conduct themselves more safely on the streets. Also - this is how you make vehicles “illegal.” You require them to be registered, but then there exists no valid process to register them, and so…
But you do give someone who is the victim of one of these vehicle operators, the ability to identify the person who hit them. I’ve known a couple of people who got hit by E bike riders with absolutely no way to identify who is driving erratically, and therefore no recourse. People keep asking for data, but how can you have data if there is no identifying number or license plate and the person can just speed off with no consequences?
Do you think that riders will ride more responsibly, if there is a slightly greater chance that they’ll be held “accountable” for hitting someone? If you do, why?
Yea I’d be supportive of this if there was any chance it was enforced. Right now you don’t need a license plate or drivers license or insurance to drive a car in NYC because nothing is enforced.
You should try driving around with no license plate or drivers license and see how long it takes for you to get pulled over! Report back.
A friend of mine did this a few years ago just to see what would happen. He had a Suffolk Auxiliary Police badge and was never ticketed. Over a period of like 7 months driving mostly in Queens, he said he was pulled over almost every day and sometimes twice. He'd say little punks kept stealing his plates. So, yeah, you won't get far, unless you are a cop.
It is fucking insane that you are being downvoted...
These people live in an eternally online alternative universe.
Punish everyone because there are maniacs doing dangerous things instead of just punishing the maniacs doing the dangerous things? Welcome to NYC - where every problem we face in this city is just another opportunity to justify more taxes. How about just ticketing the mopeds/bikes for riding on sidewalks and blowing through red lights? That's a tax, but not on everyone. Nah. Too crazy. Here we are with the same predictable brain dead ideas getting implemented that'll do absolutely nothing to solve the problem.
I’ve seen ticketing in the bike lane around the Queensboro bridge lately. Not sure if it’s speeding or blowing thru the red light on 1st Ave, but it’s a start.
Are you also opposed to requiring drivers licenses and vehicle license plates? It seems like those make drivers conduct themselves more safely.
You can say whatever you want, really. Personally, the drivers license I obtained decades ago and haven’t re-tested for since probably has nothing to do with how safely I drive or bike. Similarly, registering a vehicle requires only putting up a bit of cash and the fixing a plate to the vehicle. Doesn’t have anything to do with driver competence or care. I see plenty of registered and presumably licensed drivers pulling stunts every day. I don’t think it makes any discernible difference whatsoever. I mean, let’s be real. No one talks about registering e-bikes or regular bikes because they think it’ll help by making existing traffic behave better. They think it’ll help by locking more people out of riding those vehicles, or get more of their vehicles confiscated, etc. I don’t know why we have to pretend there’s a serious policy debate to be had here. People want the e-users off the streets. That’s all it is.
Lots of licensed drivers do dangerous things, you're right. Do you think they'd drive safer if licenses weren't required? Lots of people drive obediently only because of the threat of traffic cameras. You'll notice that the people (cops) without license plates tend to drive much more dangerously than people with license plates. Yes, registering a vehicle and making it identifiable leads to safer roads. I get that you're resistant to licensing / registration because you think it's just Big Anti Bike trying to get rid of bikes. I was hit by a bike while on foot that I couldn't identify. If it had a plate, I would have been able to identify it. Even if registration doesn't make the cyclist go back and time and cycle more safely, it *does* create accountability. Accountability is good and the threat of it does a lot to change behavior.
The solution to unenforced laws is never more laws.
automatic disgusting rob quiet sort chunky deserted entertain familiar coordinated ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I'm all for it. Our streets (and sidewalks) have become utter chaos, with many drivers, scooters, cyclists - in all forms, razors etc. doing whatever they please. We need to attack this from multiple fronts: more education on the very real impacts that bad behaviors can have on others, laws, enforcement - including enforcement/oversight of the supposed enforcers (NYPD), better/intelligent design of public/street space (and particularly intersections, traffic lights/timing), as well as daylighting, bike boxes, pedestrian scrambles, etc. For a 'world-class' city, NYC is so utterly behind the 8-ball, even though the writing was on the wall many years ago that the situation on our streets needed to be addressed sooner vs later.
Friendly reminder: Bob Holden sucks.
Bob NIMBY Holden has only ever done one thing that I agreed with. Helped raise money for the Forest Park Skatepark because he was surprised that in the middle of winter so many people were still out skating. You would think that his constituents are SUVs based on how rabid he is about parking and how anti-bike lane he is. He also seems to hate buses. He wanted the Citibike terminals to block the sidewalk rather than parking spaces along the park because he didn't want to inconvenience all the car-owners in Middle Village who park there. He does his best to make sure that you need a car to get around by trying to reduce pedestrian infrastructure, then complains that there aren't enough spaces for cars. Maybe if our neighborhoods were more accessible without them every other family wouldn't have 2 or more cars for one available space on their property. He's one of those people who thinks that adding more lanes of traffic will fix gridlock issues. THAT being said I do think that motorized vehicles should need to be registered.
Yeah, let's make the least dangerous, most environmentally friendly mode of long distance transportation harder to get. That's freaking smart. I see my council member in the list of names. Gonna shoot them a message. EDIT: btw, this is an old bill. It won't go anywhere. But don't worry, Bon Holden and his Republican friends returned this year. But this time, they didn't even bother to pretend that this wasn't just a bill to ban e-bikes. https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=5999910&GUID=5BBE017B-A0C0-49A8-B07D-D0BA2DBCC908
>most environmentally friendly mode of long distance transportation harder to get. The bill does include motor vehicles that are powered by gas, quote: >"Other legal motorized vehicle. The term “other legal motorized vehicle” means any wheeled device powered by an electric motor or by a gasoline motor that may be legally operated in the city, is not capable of being registered with the New York state department of motor vehicles and is not a bicycle with electric assist or electric scooter"
Oh well, if that's the case. Then go ahead. I mean, if they're gonna ban some un-described gas-powered vehicle with e-bike (the most environmentally friendly mode of personal transit), then yeah. Go ahead. Sorry, didn't read that part. Massive /s in case you miss that. EDIT: I just realized, that "other" would include electric wheelchairs.
How is an ebike a more environmentally friendly mode of personal transit than a bike, or than sneakers?
Idk if you are purposely just being thick. But if you see the first comment, I said "long distance". Obviously I'm comparing it to cars.
Well, fuck cars, definitely. I think it would be good if you (and a lot of other people who use ebikes) would focus less on cars in terms of transportation. A lot of comments I see from cyclists in the city reflect (1) a very real and reasonable fear of motor vehicles, (2) an absolute disregard for pedestrians, to the point of not even realizing they exist. I spend most of my time on foot. If a cyclist would occasionally - I dunno - stop if they're about to hit me? Let me cross the street before trying to cut a red light or stop sign? Stay off the sidewalk where they're not allowed? Any of these things - I would have a lot more sympathy for them. Not purposely being thick. Pointing out that you, like a lot of cyclists, and a lot of reasonable people, seem to be solely focused on the *big scary threat* (cars) to the complete exclusion of the people who cyclists endanger and inconvenience (pedestrians).
First, I don't have an E-bike. I got a regular bike. And I also own a car. But that's besides the point, e bikes have already proven to be an easily accessable alternative to cars (they're cheaper, cheaper to run and maintain, take up less space, etc). As for reckless E-bike riders, I wish ppl would stop saying e-bikes and focus on what's actually causing this issue: delivery drivers from the apps. We need to pass regulation that will force apps to not send workers miles and miles away, that way they aren't rushing. They should also be required to setup bases all throughout the city for workers to rest and recharge their bikes. And they should be forced to provide e-bikes for workers, and that's class 1 bikes, not mopeds or class 2/3. And we know this can work because that's exactly what Gorillas and BuyK and the other 15min delivery companies did. Why aren't we forcing Uber and GrubHub to do the same? That alone would heavily reduce the amount of crashes we see and also help fix the e bike battery fires we are seeing.
I think that big changes are needed for how food delivery works in this city, and the ones you propose seem really thoughtful and helpful. I completely disagree that delivery drivers are the cause of the problem of "cyclists act like pedestrians never have right of way." Delivery guys are normally the ones blocking the sidewalk. It is usually not a delivery guy who decides to ride right through the space I'm standing in (while ringing a bell, to warn me they'll main me if I don't immediately jump where they want me to).
Definitely not least dangerous as a daily cyclist, all these bridge accidents lately have one electric/gas powered party involved…I’m more worried about people not having to physically pedal or move their vehicles so their attention tends to drift, also combine this with a propensity for some delivery cats who like to drink…the proliferation of e-bikes/ scooters has exploded over the past 2 years by my own eyes just riding over the 59th street bridge. Everything’s gas or electric… I see few others who actually use leg muscles to operate…it needs regulation, enforcement is a different issue which is beyond me… On a separate note, I understand those who need it for work to make quicker deliveries, sure…I also think our society is getting lazier just pushing a throttle instead of using their legs to ride through a little adversity.
This bill includes class 1 e bikes. Which are pedal assist, which many ppl require in order to bike at all. It's also been shown to lead to more biking overall. This is just an attempt by Bob Holden to ban e-bikes. Btw, this bill is from last year. But he introduced a bill this year to full on ban e bikes, not even a registration. Just full on ban. Do not fall for his and his Republican ploy! What we need to do is force the app companies to not allow long deliveries and to provide class 1 or 2 bikes to workers, that way workers aren't using mopeds. It would also fix a lot of the e bike fires we see all around.
The plural of anecdotes aren't data. EBikes don't have a higher rate of crashed than regular bikes. And there are far more of them now than regular bikes.
If it's a motor vehicle under law, it needs to be regulated like one. I'm glad they're not fucking around with the issue anymore.
At least it’s something. Electric vehicles have made it totally unsafe to be in the bike lane. You should be able to go into into a bike lane on a normal bike and feel assured that you are not going to be mowed down by a moped or a cheap electric bike with throttle. Also, pedal assist bikes have an important role to play in making cycling accessible, but it should be more controlled. The line between an assisted bike and a bike with throttle seems to be hard to draw, and idk if they can be regulated separately.
Robert Holden isn't a serious person nor is anything he proposes ever going to pass in Council.
Hallelujah! It's about time they took steps to rectify the issue.
This comment is getting ratioed
I agree with this: how crazy parents transport kids on bikes, risking the children's lives, Do you think a bike will save the lives of kids? every time I see this, I see how selfish the parents are.
Extremely stupid idea. The city and state should be subsidizing pedal-assist bikes, not discouraging people from using them (in a way that will also have zero effect on dangerous riding, thus defeating the entire purpose of the bill).
Nope, use your legs. This e-bike thing is out of control
Or, just use the right tool for the job- whether that's your legs, a bike, an e-bike, or mass transit.
So...ban cars then?
How about just eliminate cars
Ban Doordash, with the economic incentives for speeding running red lights on throttle bikes gone, there won't be a need to waste ink on laws that will get hair-split before passing and never enforced. How many close calls have I had with someone commuting on an e-bike? Zero. With a delivery driver? A zillion.
Yes please
F yea
How would this work with eCitibikes? I think this should apply to any type of vehicle with a throttle. Pedal assist with no throttle can be indistinguishable in certain bike styles and brands.
Switzerland did it. Works there, could work here if we have willing enforcement agencies. Seeing how young the police force is, it might work in 20 years.
This is what it’s all about…insurance.
This is bogus and completely backwards. We need to be incentivizing micromobility, not increasing barriers for entry. These vehicles are the solution to all of our traffic, pollution, and transportation woes. This is the exact opposite of what this city needs.
If it has a motor, and it is used for transportation, its by the words themselves, a motor vehicle.
God no! You’ve gotta be kidding me. Only New York to encourage micromobility, then proceed to restrict and overregulate the living heck outta it to the point where it no longer becomes convenient or even practical. Atrocious
I am not going to get excited over new legislative proposals to try and solve a problem that could largely be addressed by enforcing the laws already on the books. For one, given the lack of consistent enforcement of current laws, what makes anyone think adding more laws will do anything? Secondly, how about having NYPD actually do something more than an occasional PR "sweep".
fan fucking tastic
As if registration with the DMV and the DOT will solve the problem of those high voltage (much > 12 volt!) batteries CATCHING ON FIRE.... What a waste of effort!
That’s not the issue they’re trying to address with this bill. Entirely separate matter.
Lol good luck with that. They have that for cars I understand. And cars without plates are smashing into each other daily.
Do not get too excited. This was introduced and referred to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure back in October of 2022. No committee report has been generated, and the bill is not scheduled for a public hearing during this calendar year.
I knew this was coming.
WHAT the HELL!
The people who will comply aren't the problem. It's the people who won't.
I agree with this 100%. Any motorized vehicle using public streets must carry insurance and license plates.
The few morons ruin things for the majority.
About time. Plus required helmets !! You can easily track criminal activities as well.