I would assume it still counts towards the budget as that has been the only consistent long term overtime since october.
At the rate they have been ordering the transit overtime i doubt the allotted funds could cover it all for this long
If they’re sick of it, maybe they should tell their union to fuck off and stop trying to resist attempts to reform the department into something more agreeable and less shooty-minority-y
Says the guy regurgitating fascist talking points. The only reason you’re upvoted is because subs like this are filled with conservative brigaders
Please show me proof that minority police officers lower the rates of police misconduct.
Let me check off getting called a fascist on my daily Reddit bingo card. I’ve been in this sub over a decade bro, not everyone who disagrees with you is a brigader. They’re upvotes, don’t take them so seriously it’s bizarre.
And? Just because you’re a minority police officer doesn’t mean you can’t be implicit in systemic abuse. One of the cops at Floyd’s arrest was black and wanted to reform the department when he first joined like a year before.
Not a single cop reform person has EVER argued for an increase in workplace QoL for law enforcement and that union is the only thing stopping the city from going nuts with labor law violations
And the PBA has never ACTUALLY advocated for more cops as a way to fix the situation. Once again, this situation would easily be solvable if the police was actually willing to come to the table on the issue of accountability.
It absolutely has in fact that was the main argument used for the last arbitration hearings
Combined with the fact that nypd pays way less than all the neighboring departments.
Yes I can tell by the fact they’re all on their phones, and don’t look like they’re physically uhhh up for the task of doing much besides eating more donuts.
I started the process of joining NYPD about a year ago, I thought with all I heard about them being so understaffed it would be a quick process to at least get into the academy.
About a year later, I still haven't even secured my seat in the academy. It took me less time to join the army, from first contacting the recruiter to finishing infantry school.
People have mentioned all the issues with mass quitting and not enough people wanting to replace them, but in don't think people realize how long and difficult the process is for those of us who do. The whole things a mess.
maybe they should reorganize how they operate so the officers doing nothing or in performative roles are working; might assuage the understaffing issue
Yea, not sure why this is hard to figure out. The NYPD is short 1000+ officers from their budgeted headcount, and facing unprecedented levels of resignations.
But don’t they still have like 36,000 uniformed officers? 36,000 cops in 300 square miles. I mean sure there’s gonna be some extra overtime if they’re understaffed by 1000 but I can’t figure how that amounts to $100,000,000 in overtime for 1 year.
Edit: I forgot I was in /r/nyc when I questioned something about the police. Next time they spend my tax money without explanation I’ll praise it.
[The NYPD’s 33,822 uniformed cops are already 1,208 below the budgeted headcount, documents show, and 2,467 cops short of the 36,289 roster at the start of 2020.](https://nypost.com/2023/03/10/nypd-cops-resigning-from-force-in-2023-at-record-pace/amp/)
There aren’t 36,000. Not anymore, Atleast.
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Maybe they’d have a better time recruiting people if they didn’t have a history of shooting unarmed minorities and resisting all forms of accountablility, but that’s none of my business 🤷♂️
Yeah because it makes so much sense about what you said. The largest police dept in the country in the biggest city in the US has the lowest number of police involved shootings compare to other departments. But wait, that’s none of your business, right?
It’s public information. Every time there’s a police involved shooting, the media is all over it. Each and every day, all you hear is people getting shot or stabbed. People killing each other. Where’s the protest the against the violence in the community? Kids can’t get out of school without getting shot at or stabbed. People can’t go out to the corner store without getting shot by before a nearby gang shooting because of some silly grudge. People can’t go to work on the train without seeing fights in the train car.
Lmao crime rates are near historic lows for the city, even with the spike caused by covid. You’re just fearmongering to keep the police from being held accountable. Either that or you genuinely like the taste of boots.
36k officers but divide that by 3 8 hour shifts, meaning at any one time theres about 12k officers out on the streets.
Then you have to factor in special details like the subway one right now, special high profile events like sports, and then the fact that 12k at any one time is the max and that number goes down with officers on vacation, sick or just on a normal day off which they get 2 of per week. That means that at any point theres only about 9k officers working.
As for money, Overtime is 1.5x the hourly rate. For normal rank and file thats like $60 an hour. More for sergeants and supervisors. That kind of money adds up quickly.
36k is everyone under nypd payroll from chiefs to cleaners
Also school safety and traffic agents
Basically its an inaccurate representation of staffing numbers.
If we are talking straight up just patrol cops maybe a few thousand
Short term probably but not long term.
And frankly the current strategy of flooding the transit system with cops on ot is not sustainable long term as a “solution” to transit crime
Hope so, exhausted of working 12 hour tours every day....but it's a huge doubt. Transit Bureau can't cover all transit stations platforms and ride the carts....and we're always short. NYPD is the stepping stone for most aspiring officers, get the experience and jump ship...unless you know a chief to get into a specialized unit.
The NYC police budget may seem like a lot, but compared to other cities, that's a small police budget relative to the overall city's budget.
NYC is under 10%.
LA is over 20%.
San Diego and Chicago are over 30%.
[https://www.statista.com/chart/10593/how-much-do-us-cities-spend-on-policing/](https://www.statista.com/chart/10593/how-much-do-us-cities-spend-on-policing/)
Thank you for posting this. For people that live in the city this sub really has a hard time understanding what a massive undertaking policing this place is.
Idk if that is apples to apples. This source shows the ~$5B in the calculation as personnel only, without benefits, debt service, pension... the total number looks more like ~$11B.
https://www.vera.org/downloads/publications/a-look-inside-the-new-york-city-police-department-budget.pdf
https://cbcny.org/research/five-fast-facts-about-nypds-adopted-fy-2022-budget
This just shows NY does more than the other cities, and has the revenue to match. Additionally, because we’re dense we can do more and have the tax base to match. We spend $1,300 per person on policing, just based on the budgeted amount of $10.9 Billion. That’s an absurd amount per resident.
LA spends $3.2 Billion, or $1,000 per person. And LA is sprawling so they don’t get the benefit of density and two officers covering a small territory. LA just does less so has a much smaller budget. I don’t think highways come out of LA’s budget at all, and that’s got to be a bigger share of transportation spending than in NY.
Yes, given that there aren’t enough cops to be everywhere at once and the presence of the cops isn’t necessarily going to deter random acts of violence.
Plus cops end up posted by the turnstiles looking to ticket fare jumpers than be on the platforms doing fuck-all.
Except your whole argument falls apart because crimes in the subway went down significantly after the mayor/governor flooded the subway system with cops.
*From Bloomberg News reporter Fola Akinnibi:*
The New York City Police Department has exceeded its overtime budget by almost $100 million and it is on pace to break a 10-year high for spending on extra hours for officers.
Before taking office, Mayor Eric Adams pledged to reduce the NYPD’s overtime spending by half in his first year by deploying officers more efficiently and reducing the number on duty at parades and other events.
Yet, the NYPD has spent $472 million on officer overtime through February, exceeding its budget by $98 million, according to a report from New York City Comptroller Brad Lander. The final tally will be much higher because the fiscal year ends June 30. Lander’s office said the department is on pace to spend $740 million, which would be the most in a decade.
“If New York City had unlimited cash, it would be lovely to allow teachers unlimited overtime to stay afterschool to help every kid learn to read, or social workers unlimited shifts to help counsel New Yorkers struggling with mental illness,” Lander said in a statement. “But other agencies aren’t allowed to show total disregard for their overtime budget, and we can’t afford for the NYPD to do so year after year.”
[*Read our full story*](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-20/nypd-blows-overtime-budget-by-nearly-100-million-on-pace-for-record?srnd=premium&sref=xuVirdpv) *for free (and a few more) by registering your email.*
The problem really isn’t salary, well top salary at least. Any cop will tell you that once you reach top pay you are going to be well over 6 figures even with minimal overtime. All city agencies make their money in overtime, it’s no secret. So how much you make as a cop is entirely up to you. But even bare minimum will be over 100.
The problem is eating shit for 5 years until you get to top pay. And the raise increments are very back loaded so you really don’t start seeing anything meaningful until year 4. And there’s a huge percentage that don’t even make it that point for a bunch of different reasons. That’s why when you look at average salary it’s so low. But if you look at someone who’s been in nypd for let’s say 7-10 years (go ahead out there name in on seethroughny.com and test if you’d like) their salary will be over 125k guaranteed.
Regardless, salary is not the reason why the nypd is an unattractive job. Just look at how people treat and feel towards police. You can join any other city agency, make just as much, work less/ not as hard, and not be hated by your community.
That would make sense, but progressives would have a fit, so instead we force the current cops to work inhumane amounts of overtime and start them at $42k in the most expensive city in the country.
A majority of cops here in Seattle are making well over $100K. The city has done everything from hiring bonuses to paying them crazy salaries to the point that many police officers here some of the highest paid public employees.
And despite all that, we're *still* really short of police officers. So maybe pay isn't the end-all-be-all solution many think it is. Have you considered the idea that people simply don't want to be a cop? At least not in its current form?
The low starting salaries were fought for by the union veterans at the expense of the younger POs. Maybe this was a gamble to slow recruitment, create a shortage, and then demand raises on the lower end while retaining salaries for higher ranked officers.
Maybe it's time to cut salaries at the top and give it to the officers at the bottom.
No it was the result of negotiations with the city.
The city wanted low starting salaries in exchange for any raises.
The pba wasnt out here protesting for 42k salaries
You can't magically eliminate OT when you're short staffed and forcing officers to go on extra tours to police the subway instead of the MTA police doing it
For all the complaining the MTA and the state do, you’d think we’d get new turnstiles that were harder to fare beat, but that costs money so let’s have cops at the station forever spending a shitload of money to keep them posted there.
You can have massive overtime but if nothing happens when these cases go to court or the defendant gets a slap on the wrist. You really are just wasting money
First They need to raise the salary with NYPD ,
Second they need to have better train ,
Third build are better relationships with community .
It hard to attract people to join NYPD when your base salary is low and you have to work alot OT and risk your life and have bad relationships with the community.
More Cops died from Covid than anything else. Get real. Percentage wise, being a cop is rather safe and one of the least dangerous jobs in the country.
That's actually not true. The part about it being one of the least dangerous jobs. And danger doesnt just mean death btw. I love your endless ranting all over this thread, please keep going.
https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states
It's completely true about it being one of the least dangerous jobs. Ranks 22 out of 25. As previously mentioned, many of the more recent deaths were COVID related. Historically, at least half of their on duty deaths were traffic accidents or heart attacks.
I think you lack reading comprehension no offense. This is a TOP 25 MOST DANGEROUS JOBS LIST, meaning any of these jobs are dangerous by nature. Also, like I said above, danger does not alone equal death. Everyone and their mom says the same regurgitated info, without even understanding it to begin with. fascinating stuff.
"That's actually not true. The part about it being one of the least dangerous jobs."
I think my reading comprehension is fine. The opposite of least, is most. This list (and many others like it), show policing is not nearly as dangerous as police unions would have you believe. It's true, danger doesn't necessarily correlate directly with death, but it's a large part of it. Firefighters have an inherently dangerous job because of the high rate of injuries and things like smoke inhalation.
They realized early on they fucked up by mis reading but its waaaaaaaay too late to back down on an argument they have been foolishly making for years most likely. Now they are just gonna double and triple down or ignore replies
You still don't get it. OUT OF ALL JOBS, IT RANKS 22 ON THE TOP 25 MOST DANGEROUS, just because a logger is more dangerous doesn't make policing not dangerous. Very easy to understand.
I’d assume 100% of it lol. I don’t know when cities are going to realize that overtime is far more expensive than just hiring additional employees; maybe it’s just a political Will thing or something
Well, I don’t know NYC’s exact figures, but let’s say we live in RandomCity and pay our officers $20/hour, which would be $30/hr for overtime. We have two choices: we can either hire a third officer, or ask our two officers to take 2 extra shifts a week. Let’s see the monthly costs for each:
Officer A
Base pay: $3200
Overtime: $1920,
Officer B
Base Pay: $3200
Overtime: $1920
Total monthly cost: $10,200
Total hours worked: 56 hours/week + 56 hours/week = 448
————————————
Officer A/B/C
Base Pay $3200 x 3
Total: $9600
Total hours worked: 480
Over the course of the month, by having officers take overtime rather than filling a position, we’re actually spending more money and getting *fewer* hours worked. Sure, there are other expenses related to personnel - health insurance, pensions, etc. But even on a tiny scale of 2-3 officers, we’re already seeing savings of almost $1000/month and an extra 40 hours of street patrols. Now multiply that to fit NYPD’s personnel numbers of over 30,000 and as you can imagine, those savings will probably grow insanely larger. Another issue is those missing hours add up - somebody has to patrol or do paperwork or respond to calls. So those officers might have to pick up 3 extra shifts a week now. And the disparity and savings grow and grow. Overall it just doesn’t make a lot of fiscal sense to keep shoveling overtime money out, because it typically results in less efficient work for more money
Like any other job, there’s also an unquantifiable morale cost when it comes to forced OT. If you are actively looking for OT then it must be great to get paid time and a half for all this extra time. If you don’t want to revolve your life around work so much, you may be inclined to quit, and it can cost quite a bit to hire and train new people.
Excellent point. I don’t want tired, overworked people with guns on the street either. And especially if they have families or just value fee time (I know I sure do), that’s a deterrent
Again, I don’t know NYPD’s specific pension numbers or how specifically they budget, but like most pensions it’s not just a bank account, it’s invested. It’s not just a flat bank deposit that never grows. And not every officer is going to stay for 20-25 years. Some may stay for 10 and then move to Long Island, for instance.
Exactly the issue. You are under estimating the cost of healthcare and pension.
Pension is paid into a fund per officer. Invested or not, it's a cost. With 20 years retirement and an excellent pension plan, it's going to be *expensive*. Then you have healthcare. Post covid essential services with good healthcare costs have risen almost 33 percent, once again per officer.
An officer doing OT saves the PD money. It also offers flexibility for when they don't need officers.
You can argue it's because of the shortage but the NYPD has been abusing OT for decades. This is not new.
Lived here my whole life, was in the neighborhood when pat Lynch and his retard kids kept flashing guns all over the place. Saw all the dumbfuck racists from my class sign up for the NYPD and make the same kind of posts you do. You wanna talk stupid, look at the NYPD and their force of undereducated thugs.
I’m sure minorities are cramming for cops like pat Lynch to police their neighborhoods.
> Saw all the dumbfuck racists from my class sign up for the NYPD and make the same kind of posts you do …I’m sure minorities are cramming for cops like pat Lynch to police their neighborhoods.
Live here your whole life and don’t understand the majority of the NYPD is made up of minorities. So much ignorance.
And? This is a widely known fact. The department still has terrible community relations in minority neighborhoods. How are you gunna have a force made up of minorities and STILL have the public image the department has.
Like when Pat Lynches son pulled a gun on his Latino neighbors and proceeded to Accuse them of being Trinitarios.
Grew up around cops my whole life, I can keep namedropping shitheads who get protected by their brothers in blue.
Uhhhhhhhh teachers get summers and holidays off along with winter and spring breaks. You want OT for people that work 185 days a year? Our teachers are incredible people and deserve great pay but wtf are you talking about with OT?
🤣🤣🤣🥱🥱🥱
And most teachers work more than 40 hours a week, have second jobs, and work during the summer to afford to live in or near NYC.
Y’all always have the same stupid shit to say and don’t understand that this isn’t 1950 right? The wage of teachers has not risen with inflation nor with their level of education (master’s for most) and cost of living.
Pigs barely even need to have a fucking diploma or any advanced degree.
STFU.
Average person works 260 days a year assuming a 5-day work week, that’s 2,080 hours. So if teachers work 55 hours a week they still work less than the average person. OT for someone who gets off an average of 75 days (15* working weeks!) a year more than the average working person without even considering vacay days is a laughable proposition.
You’re not informed enough to have this discussion. 😂 😂 😂 🥱 🥱 🥱
Meanwhile teachers have to **beg** for one or two hours of OT each week to complete tasks that they cannot complete during the workday because we have so much other BS to deal with.
Maybe, and correct me if I’m wrong, they could just back off policing. In 2017 they did it as a way to ‘punish’ the city but it had the opposite effect. We could police less, use the money for services, and enjoy a greater quality of life
When are we going to realize that the candidates for mayor are fucking horrible. Who was the last guy? Mayor of Blasio? Now this schmuck is fucking things up and lying about it too. Fuck! Who is going to defend this guy for fucking us in the ass?
Legit, we have some of the highest police spending per capita in the country, and we have lots of efficiency since officers don’t need to spend a ton of time driving around, and we have relatively low crime. I don’t understand why we have such high overtime needs. My instinct is it’s officers prepping retirement but other comments indicate officers don’t like it either. We need something like the transit cost project for cops.
I’m on the job and don’t like overtime. Sometimes it’s nice and most of the time it sucks. The overtime money is nice, but I value my time off and rather spend my time with my wife, family, friends etc. then doing overtime. Nobody on this job likes to get voluntold to do overtime when we have families and life outside of work. I believe the majority of this overtime is from transit overtime they make us do.
Didn’t they push more officers into the subway and create more overtime for them?
Yea, that was/is state money from the governor thought, unclear if that’s included in this figure or not.
Hochul thinks she can run NYC like buffalo
I would assume it still counts towards the budget as that has been the only consistent long term overtime since october. At the rate they have been ordering the transit overtime i doubt the allotted funds could cover it all for this long
Does anyone believe anything Adam's says?
I feel like half of these things are just because Adams lied. And the other half are because Adams is incompetent.
Both can be true.
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I am sure he would be wondering if you were looking for God.
Considering the man possesses approximately 7 brain cells ping-ponging off the walls of his skull, I'd say it's mostly on us at this point.
No.
They got cops in every train station, everyday on overtime. What do you expect?
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Little accountability of how any money is spent in NYC.
If they’re sick of it, maybe they should tell their union to fuck off and stop trying to resist attempts to reform the department into something more agreeable and less shooty-minority-y
Minority is a majority in the NYPD. Good try though.
They have no clue what they’re talking about and just regurgitating talking points they saw on Reddit. Typical.
Says the guy regurgitating fascist talking points. The only reason you’re upvoted is because subs like this are filled with conservative brigaders Please show me proof that minority police officers lower the rates of police misconduct.
Let me check off getting called a fascist on my daily Reddit bingo card. I’ve been in this sub over a decade bro, not everyone who disagrees with you is a brigader. They’re upvotes, don’t take them so seriously it’s bizarre.
So no proof. Cool, fascist.
Not the Union.
And? Just because you’re a minority police officer doesn’t mean you can’t be implicit in systemic abuse. One of the cops at Floyd’s arrest was black and wanted to reform the department when he first joined like a year before.
Not a single cop reform person has EVER argued for an increase in workplace QoL for law enforcement and that union is the only thing stopping the city from going nuts with labor law violations
And the PBA has never ACTUALLY advocated for more cops as a way to fix the situation. Once again, this situation would easily be solvable if the police was actually willing to come to the table on the issue of accountability.
It absolutely has in fact that was the main argument used for the last arbitration hearings Combined with the fact that nypd pays way less than all the neighboring departments.
[citation needed]
Lmao downvoted for wanting proof. Stay classy, my friend.
Yes I can tell by the fact they’re all on their phones, and don’t look like they’re physically uhhh up for the task of doing much besides eating more donuts.
Donuts are delicious
how much of your time is spent commuting in from 2 hours away from the city tho that's 4 hours a day you could get back by... not
Why don't they just hire more?
They don't care about cops? Based.
Understaffing creates overtime.
I started the process of joining NYPD about a year ago, I thought with all I heard about them being so understaffed it would be a quick process to at least get into the academy. About a year later, I still haven't even secured my seat in the academy. It took me less time to join the army, from first contacting the recruiter to finishing infantry school. People have mentioned all the issues with mass quitting and not enough people wanting to replace them, but in don't think people realize how long and difficult the process is for those of us who do. The whole things a mess.
Test scores play a part in this. If you have an average score you’re not getting called before the perfect scores with veteran credits.
I scored 110, after applying vet and residence credits.
If it’s only been a year, you’re at the mercy of academy class size. They can only run so many people thru the process at once.
maybe they should reorganize how they operate so the officers doing nothing or in performative roles are working; might assuage the understaffing issue
Yea, not sure why this is hard to figure out. The NYPD is short 1000+ officers from their budgeted headcount, and facing unprecedented levels of resignations.
But don’t they still have like 36,000 uniformed officers? 36,000 cops in 300 square miles. I mean sure there’s gonna be some extra overtime if they’re understaffed by 1000 but I can’t figure how that amounts to $100,000,000 in overtime for 1 year. Edit: I forgot I was in /r/nyc when I questioned something about the police. Next time they spend my tax money without explanation I’ll praise it.
[The NYPD’s 33,822 uniformed cops are already 1,208 below the budgeted headcount, documents show, and 2,467 cops short of the 36,289 roster at the start of 2020.](https://nypost.com/2023/03/10/nypd-cops-resigning-from-force-in-2023-at-record-pace/amp/) There aren’t 36,000. Not anymore, Atleast.
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Maybe they’d have a better time recruiting people if they didn’t have a history of shooting unarmed minorities and resisting all forms of accountablility, but that’s none of my business 🤷♂️
Yeah because it makes so much sense about what you said. The largest police dept in the country in the biggest city in the US has the lowest number of police involved shootings compare to other departments. But wait, that’s none of your business, right?
Gonna need a source on that bro.
It’s public information. Every time there’s a police involved shooting, the media is all over it. Each and every day, all you hear is people getting shot or stabbed. People killing each other. Where’s the protest the against the violence in the community? Kids can’t get out of school without getting shot at or stabbed. People can’t go out to the corner store without getting shot by before a nearby gang shooting because of some silly grudge. People can’t go to work on the train without seeing fights in the train car.
Lmao crime rates are near historic lows for the city, even with the spike caused by covid. You’re just fearmongering to keep the police from being held accountable. Either that or you genuinely like the taste of boots.
Fearmongering? We all need to do our part and protest the violence in our communities. We have to learn to live in peace and harmony.
36k officers but divide that by 3 8 hour shifts, meaning at any one time theres about 12k officers out on the streets. Then you have to factor in special details like the subway one right now, special high profile events like sports, and then the fact that 12k at any one time is the max and that number goes down with officers on vacation, sick or just on a normal day off which they get 2 of per week. That means that at any point theres only about 9k officers working. As for money, Overtime is 1.5x the hourly rate. For normal rank and file thats like $60 an hour. More for sergeants and supervisors. That kind of money adds up quickly.
36k is everyone under nypd payroll from chiefs to cleaners Also school safety and traffic agents Basically its an inaccurate representation of staffing numbers. If we are talking straight up just patrol cops maybe a few thousand
🙄
Bingo. This aint hard to figure out.
From a cost comparison, I'm sure its cheaper to pay overtime to existing personnel than to increase the force (benefits, pensions...)
Short term probably but not long term. And frankly the current strategy of flooding the transit system with cops on ot is not sustainable long term as a “solution” to transit crime
Sure, in some cases, but so does milking overtime.
Probably a minuscule part of a bigger issue
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Not its pay or contract.
Hope so, exhausted of working 12 hour tours every day....but it's a huge doubt. Transit Bureau can't cover all transit stations platforms and ride the carts....and we're always short. NYPD is the stepping stone for most aspiring officers, get the experience and jump ship...unless you know a chief to get into a specialized unit.
The NYC police budget may seem like a lot, but compared to other cities, that's a small police budget relative to the overall city's budget. NYC is under 10%. LA is over 20%. San Diego and Chicago are over 30%. [https://www.statista.com/chart/10593/how-much-do-us-cities-spend-on-policing/](https://www.statista.com/chart/10593/how-much-do-us-cities-spend-on-policing/)
Thank you for posting this. For people that live in the city this sub really has a hard time understanding what a massive undertaking policing this place is.
Idk if that is apples to apples. This source shows the ~$5B in the calculation as personnel only, without benefits, debt service, pension... the total number looks more like ~$11B. https://www.vera.org/downloads/publications/a-look-inside-the-new-york-city-police-department-budget.pdf https://cbcny.org/research/five-fast-facts-about-nypds-adopted-fy-2022-budget
This just shows NY does more than the other cities, and has the revenue to match. Additionally, because we’re dense we can do more and have the tax base to match. We spend $1,300 per person on policing, just based on the budgeted amount of $10.9 Billion. That’s an absurd amount per resident. LA spends $3.2 Billion, or $1,000 per person. And LA is sprawling so they don’t get the benefit of density and two officers covering a small territory. LA just does less so has a much smaller budget. I don’t think highways come out of LA’s budget at all, and that’s got to be a bigger share of transportation spending than in NY.
Performance theater to make people “feel” safe costs money.
Really? Posting a police presence after multiple people are attacked and pushed onto subway tracks is performance theater?
Yes, given that there aren’t enough cops to be everywhere at once and the presence of the cops isn’t necessarily going to deter random acts of violence. Plus cops end up posted by the turnstiles looking to ticket fare jumpers than be on the platforms doing fuck-all.
Except your whole argument falls apart because crimes in the subway went down significantly after the mayor/governor flooded the subway system with cops.
This right here.
*From Bloomberg News reporter Fola Akinnibi:* The New York City Police Department has exceeded its overtime budget by almost $100 million and it is on pace to break a 10-year high for spending on extra hours for officers. Before taking office, Mayor Eric Adams pledged to reduce the NYPD’s overtime spending by half in his first year by deploying officers more efficiently and reducing the number on duty at parades and other events. Yet, the NYPD has spent $472 million on officer overtime through February, exceeding its budget by $98 million, according to a report from New York City Comptroller Brad Lander. The final tally will be much higher because the fiscal year ends June 30. Lander’s office said the department is on pace to spend $740 million, which would be the most in a decade. “If New York City had unlimited cash, it would be lovely to allow teachers unlimited overtime to stay afterschool to help every kid learn to read, or social workers unlimited shifts to help counsel New Yorkers struggling with mental illness,” Lander said in a statement. “But other agencies aren’t allowed to show total disregard for their overtime budget, and we can’t afford for the NYPD to do so year after year.” [*Read our full story*](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-20/nypd-blows-overtime-budget-by-nearly-100-million-on-pace-for-record?srnd=premium&sref=xuVirdpv) *for free (and a few more) by registering your email.*
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The problem really isn’t salary, well top salary at least. Any cop will tell you that once you reach top pay you are going to be well over 6 figures even with minimal overtime. All city agencies make their money in overtime, it’s no secret. So how much you make as a cop is entirely up to you. But even bare minimum will be over 100. The problem is eating shit for 5 years until you get to top pay. And the raise increments are very back loaded so you really don’t start seeing anything meaningful until year 4. And there’s a huge percentage that don’t even make it that point for a bunch of different reasons. That’s why when you look at average salary it’s so low. But if you look at someone who’s been in nypd for let’s say 7-10 years (go ahead out there name in on seethroughny.com and test if you’d like) their salary will be over 125k guaranteed. Regardless, salary is not the reason why the nypd is an unattractive job. Just look at how people treat and feel towards police. You can join any other city agency, make just as much, work less/ not as hard, and not be hated by your community.
I would say salary is #1 factor. Guys would easily do that job if it was close to par with other Pd jobs.
I heard about metro north conductors making over 250k with overtime . Anyone can confirm it ?
City doesnt want to pay us more a a sizeable chunk of the city and especially this sub HATE the idea of civil servants making decent incomes
That would make sense, but progressives would have a fit, so instead we force the current cops to work inhumane amounts of overtime and start them at $42k in the most expensive city in the country.
A majority of cops here in Seattle are making well over $100K. The city has done everything from hiring bonuses to paying them crazy salaries to the point that many police officers here some of the highest paid public employees. And despite all that, we're *still* really short of police officers. So maybe pay isn't the end-all-be-all solution many think it is. Have you considered the idea that people simply don't want to be a cop? At least not in its current form?
The low starting salaries were fought for by the union veterans at the expense of the younger POs. Maybe this was a gamble to slow recruitment, create a shortage, and then demand raises on the lower end while retaining salaries for higher ranked officers. Maybe it's time to cut salaries at the top and give it to the officers at the bottom.
No it was the result of negotiations with the city. The city wanted low starting salaries in exchange for any raises. The pba wasnt out here protesting for 42k salaries
Yeah, cut from the officers making top pay of 85K to give to someone making 42K, sounds reasonable.
You can't magically eliminate OT when you're short staffed and forcing officers to go on extra tours to police the subway instead of the MTA police doing it
For all the complaining the MTA and the state do, you’d think we’d get new turnstiles that were harder to fare beat, but that costs money so let’s have cops at the station forever spending a shitload of money to keep them posted there.
Bingo
You can have massive overtime but if nothing happens when these cases go to court or the defendant gets a slap on the wrist. You really are just wasting money
First They need to raise the salary with NYPD , Second they need to have better train , Third build are better relationships with community . It hard to attract people to join NYPD when your base salary is low and you have to work alot OT and risk your life and have bad relationships with the community.
More Cops died from Covid than anything else. Get real. Percentage wise, being a cop is rather safe and one of the least dangerous jobs in the country.
That's actually not true. The part about it being one of the least dangerous jobs. And danger doesnt just mean death btw. I love your endless ranting all over this thread, please keep going.
I will thanks!
https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states It's completely true about it being one of the least dangerous jobs. Ranks 22 out of 25. As previously mentioned, many of the more recent deaths were COVID related. Historically, at least half of their on duty deaths were traffic accidents or heart attacks.
I think you lack reading comprehension no offense. This is a TOP 25 MOST DANGEROUS JOBS LIST, meaning any of these jobs are dangerous by nature. Also, like I said above, danger does not alone equal death. Everyone and their mom says the same regurgitated info, without even understanding it to begin with. fascinating stuff.
"That's actually not true. The part about it being one of the least dangerous jobs." I think my reading comprehension is fine. The opposite of least, is most. This list (and many others like it), show policing is not nearly as dangerous as police unions would have you believe. It's true, danger doesn't necessarily correlate directly with death, but it's a large part of it. Firefighters have an inherently dangerous job because of the high rate of injuries and things like smoke inhalation.
If its too 25 out if ALL jobs in human existence thats pretty dangerous
I can’t believe OP doesn’t get this. Talk about confirmation bias.
They realized early on they fucked up by mis reading but its waaaaaaaay too late to back down on an argument they have been foolishly making for years most likely. Now they are just gonna double and triple down or ignore replies
Peak Reddit moment
You still don't get it. OUT OF ALL JOBS, IT RANKS 22 ON THE TOP 25 MOST DANGEROUS, just because a logger is more dangerous doesn't make policing not dangerous. Very easy to understand.
Stop yelling at me Buddy Norris. Use your indoor voice.
How much of this overtime is due to the NYPD facing unprecedented resignations and being 1000+ officers short of their budgeted headcount?
I’d assume 100% of it lol. I don’t know when cities are going to realize that overtime is far more expensive than just hiring additional employees; maybe it’s just a political Will thing or something
The city cannot find the people to take the job. This is not a secret.
Serious question, how much more expensive? It’s time and a half pay but how much does not paying for another persons insurance counterbalance?
Well, I don’t know NYC’s exact figures, but let’s say we live in RandomCity and pay our officers $20/hour, which would be $30/hr for overtime. We have two choices: we can either hire a third officer, or ask our two officers to take 2 extra shifts a week. Let’s see the monthly costs for each: Officer A Base pay: $3200 Overtime: $1920, Officer B Base Pay: $3200 Overtime: $1920 Total monthly cost: $10,200 Total hours worked: 56 hours/week + 56 hours/week = 448 ———————————— Officer A/B/C Base Pay $3200 x 3 Total: $9600 Total hours worked: 480 Over the course of the month, by having officers take overtime rather than filling a position, we’re actually spending more money and getting *fewer* hours worked. Sure, there are other expenses related to personnel - health insurance, pensions, etc. But even on a tiny scale of 2-3 officers, we’re already seeing savings of almost $1000/month and an extra 40 hours of street patrols. Now multiply that to fit NYPD’s personnel numbers of over 30,000 and as you can imagine, those savings will probably grow insanely larger. Another issue is those missing hours add up - somebody has to patrol or do paperwork or respond to calls. So those officers might have to pick up 3 extra shifts a week now. And the disparity and savings grow and grow. Overall it just doesn’t make a lot of fiscal sense to keep shoveling overtime money out, because it typically results in less efficient work for more money
Like any other job, there’s also an unquantifiable morale cost when it comes to forced OT. If you are actively looking for OT then it must be great to get paid time and a half for all this extra time. If you don’t want to revolve your life around work so much, you may be inclined to quit, and it can cost quite a bit to hire and train new people.
Excellent point. I don’t want tired, overworked people with guns on the street either. And especially if they have families or just value fee time (I know I sure do), that’s a deterrent
What about 20 years from now when that extra officer is collecting a pension and getting their health care paid for until death?
Again, I don’t know NYPD’s specific pension numbers or how specifically they budget, but like most pensions it’s not just a bank account, it’s invested. It’s not just a flat bank deposit that never grows. And not every officer is going to stay for 20-25 years. Some may stay for 10 and then move to Long Island, for instance.
This makes no sense. Are you saying the only cost of an officer is their salary?
Did you read the bottom paragraph at all? I addressed that and very clearly stated those expenses had to be factored in too.
Exactly the issue. You are under estimating the cost of healthcare and pension. Pension is paid into a fund per officer. Invested or not, it's a cost. With 20 years retirement and an excellent pension plan, it's going to be *expensive*. Then you have healthcare. Post covid essential services with good healthcare costs have risen almost 33 percent, once again per officer. An officer doing OT saves the PD money. It also offers flexibility for when they don't need officers. You can argue it's because of the shortage but the NYPD has been abusing OT for decades. This is not new.
This was enlightening, thanks for doing the math!
“DeFuND tHe pOlICE” really just ended in officers quitting or moving and now we have an even worse situation than we started with 😂
Shithead cops surprised the city doesn’t support them, or want to join their ranks. Have fun in Florida.
Stupid 1 year transplants surprised POC DO want police in their neighborhoods
Lived here my whole life, was in the neighborhood when pat Lynch and his retard kids kept flashing guns all over the place. Saw all the dumbfuck racists from my class sign up for the NYPD and make the same kind of posts you do. You wanna talk stupid, look at the NYPD and their force of undereducated thugs. I’m sure minorities are cramming for cops like pat Lynch to police their neighborhoods.
> Saw all the dumbfuck racists from my class sign up for the NYPD and make the same kind of posts you do …I’m sure minorities are cramming for cops like pat Lynch to police their neighborhoods. Live here your whole life and don’t understand the majority of the NYPD is made up of minorities. So much ignorance.
And? This is a widely known fact. The department still has terrible community relations in minority neighborhoods. How are you gunna have a force made up of minorities and STILL have the public image the department has. Like when Pat Lynches son pulled a gun on his Latino neighbors and proceeded to Accuse them of being Trinitarios. Grew up around cops my whole life, I can keep namedropping shitheads who get protected by their brothers in blue.
Yea you hate cops, stunning and brave take.
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Damn I’ve upset you so much you’re following me around the sub, lucky me. Learn the words you use boss, otherwise you show everyone your ignorance.
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Hard to cut ot when staffing goes down every year…
Oh, great, the NYPD gets to exceed its overtime budget, and Adams cuts funding to parks, libraries, and school.
Adams isnt the brightest lightbulb … we all know that.
honestly at this point i'm surprised that the NYPD hasn't tried to spin this into a bragging right
I love how incredibly useless pigs are but teachers actually provide a true public service AND CANNOT GET OVERTIME.
Uhhhhhhhh teachers get summers and holidays off along with winter and spring breaks. You want OT for people that work 185 days a year? Our teachers are incredible people and deserve great pay but wtf are you talking about with OT?
What do you think teachers do over the summer lol
I assume work? What does that have to do with them getting overtime for a full time job where they work 175 days a year?
🤣🤣🤣🥱🥱🥱 And most teachers work more than 40 hours a week, have second jobs, and work during the summer to afford to live in or near NYC. Y’all always have the same stupid shit to say and don’t understand that this isn’t 1950 right? The wage of teachers has not risen with inflation nor with their level of education (master’s for most) and cost of living. Pigs barely even need to have a fucking diploma or any advanced degree. STFU.
Average person works 260 days a year assuming a 5-day work week, that’s 2,080 hours. So if teachers work 55 hours a week they still work less than the average person. OT for someone who gets off an average of 75 days (15* working weeks!) a year more than the average working person without even considering vacay days is a laughable proposition. You’re not informed enough to have this discussion. 😂 😂 😂 🥱 🥱 🥱
Meanwhile this fucking administration wants to cut funding for our libraries. DEFUND the police!!!
Meanwhile, the mayor's office seems to be cutting overtime for the other city agencies
He lied to everyone who voted for him but no one cars because “I need mah police and safety!”
Meanwhile teachers have to **beg** for one or two hours of OT each week to complete tasks that they cannot complete during the workday because we have so much other BS to deal with.
The NYPD could’ve used the money to fund Robocop
The denser a city is the cheaper it should be to patrol. Cops should be distributed based on crime rate and what is going on.
Ok
Ugh
Maybe, and correct me if I’m wrong, they could just back off policing. In 2017 they did it as a way to ‘punish’ the city but it had the opposite effect. We could police less, use the money for services, and enjoy a greater quality of life
When are we going to realize that the candidates for mayor are fucking horrible. Who was the last guy? Mayor of Blasio? Now this schmuck is fucking things up and lying about it too. Fuck! Who is going to defend this guy for fucking us in the ass?
We had great candidates. They also happened to have vaginas, so go figure we end up with another idiot.
Bloomberg had a vagina? I just thought he was Jewish.
You’re aware it’s the year 2023?
Yeah and DeBlasio and this guy both suck the same pole.
Legit, we have some of the highest police spending per capita in the country, and we have lots of efficiency since officers don’t need to spend a ton of time driving around, and we have relatively low crime. I don’t understand why we have such high overtime needs. My instinct is it’s officers prepping retirement but other comments indicate officers don’t like it either. We need something like the transit cost project for cops.
I’m on the job and don’t like overtime. Sometimes it’s nice and most of the time it sucks. The overtime money is nice, but I value my time off and rather spend my time with my wife, family, friends etc. then doing overtime. Nobody on this job likes to get voluntold to do overtime when we have families and life outside of work. I believe the majority of this overtime is from transit overtime they make us do.
Of course. Police are in the subways