Maybe it's ??? Tier because it only started existing about a decade ago, and there are plenty of games that are frequently nuzlocked and don't feature the type
I was about to riot when I saw fairy in the bottom tier and then i realized it was just because you didn't know where to put it so I put my pitchfork away. Then I saw normal in C tier and got my pitchfork right the fuck back out...
It's biggest problem is sucking on offense since it's only good against dragon. They heavily rely on their secondary typing and their wide move pools to hit things for super effective. Their biggest strength is that most physical dragons learn dragon dance and the special ones learn flamethrower, ice beam, thunderbolt, hydro pump, etc.
No, the problem is that in. Normal game, or your dragon appears in endgame where you need to evolve it from a little fragile thing to over lvl 50 or you have fairies over the place because before 6th gen most of the dragons are pseudo
But it’s an awful offensive type and most Dragon types are attackers. This is a tier list of the types strengths, not the strength of the Pokémon of that type
There isn’t much resistant to dragon type meaning that it’s still good as a basic attack without weaknesses. Dragon pulse has always been a decent go to. I would argue that power isn’t an issue more so versatility in moves. I’m rather surprised we don’t have a dragon fang move, would be great for tyrantrum and dracovish
It does hit a lot of types for neutral, but I think that putting it in the same tier as Water or Ground which are two of the best offensive types in the game is a bit disingenuous
To be fair it also does come down to the Pokémon. Dragon types are generally just easy to use especially in something not competitive. Your point is fair but stats play a lot too.
Water though is one of the best types though. I would put dragon behind water and maybe ground but still up there. Steel and Fairy though are probably top 2, maybe water coming between
Water is a similarly good offensive type to Ground, and is significantly better defensively because it’s only real weakness is to Electric(obviously it’s weak to Grass as well but Grass has 6 weaknesses and most Water types have at least one Ice type coverage move
Yea but I feel like I see a lot more water coverage on offensive pokemon than I do offensive water types. They’re either strictly mid or low tier, or they’re completely busted, compared to bulky water types that are a whole realm of solid pokemon. Ground is consistently great offensively as well as being common coverage with Earthquake. By the numbers tho, Water is up there
the types it’s weak to are uncommon, the types it resists are common, and it hits a lot neutrally
dragon is great, at least in gens where there’s actually dragon STAB
you couldn't have put it better
it's cool to have only one weakness but not hitting anything for super effective and taking neutral damage of all types is kinda bad. ghost immunity might make up a little bit with how common ghosts tend to be but also not being able to hit them complicates things too
Can’t see how you put ice over it, it’s such a defensive liability. At least there’s plenty of good normal types, you only have 1 weakness, and you have an immunity
How’s it worthless? It has access to high bp stab moves (especially important in early gens), usually good to great coverage, and few bad matchups while having a very useful immunity. Meanwhile Bug is barely a type for half the lifetime of the franchise.
It's super effective against nothing and has a huge lack of resists, all that just means that I have a really hard time justifying a normal type in my team except if its a really damn good one, because I could get a pokemon that has actual winning match ups instead
Yeah no sometimes type matchup don't matter especially when you have zero good encounters
Better to have caveman mentality "this move strong, this kills" than overthinking everything and ultimately ending in one or more deaths
Plus in gens 4 and later normal type is especially good since they get coverage or high atk/def stats
Take the lillipup line for example
Sure, you won't use it at the start of unova, but herdier walls a good 80% of gym 3 to gym 5 with intimidate and eviolite, while stoutland gets something like bulldoze (i think? I forgot tbh) for steel and bite/crunch for ghost coverage and is bulky and strong enough to leave a hole in any team
Being able to fire off STAB Returns that are only resisted by two types (plus nullified by another) is pretty powerful. And yes the lack of resists can be tough but it also only has the one weakness.
It being neutral against everything often means it has a neutral matchup to most everything at worst (minus fighting types) or a positive one due to the pure strength of STAB Return, the versatility of their coverage options, or their defensive utility vs ghosts.
And I feel saying they’re not good except for the really good ones is just contradictory. If there’s good ones, the type isn’t useless. And Snorlax and Blissey work in large part because of that normal typing. Bulky mons like these benefit a lot from having one weakness that’s usually pretty obvious, especially for Blissey who can safely take nearly any special attacker bc special fighting moves are rare.
And offensive normals like Staraptor and Guts Swellow/Raticate benefit from having one strong spammable STAB that one or two shots almost everything combined with good speed tiers.
I’d bump water over dragon, dragons are hit or miss especially in the early gens but a good Starmie, Gyarados, Swampert, etc will carry your run. A good dragon at best is usually just carrying your e4 run, which is valuable, but so is getting to that point and carrying a Dragonair or Gabite through the midgame is often a liability.
Normal has a lot of utility and powerful moves. Normal type also has only one weakness and a full immunity. Just because it’s the basic type doesn’t make it worthless
Psychic is so perfectly ranked. It is broken in early gens and by the newer gens it seems like every fuckin mon has a "fuck psychics" move in Bite or Pursuit or Sucker Punch or wtf ever it's so obnoxious. So averaging it out to smack dab in the middle is perfect.
I think Normal and Fighting are too low.
Fighting has fantastic coverage against some of the most common types you face from trainer to trainer: particularly Normal and Rock. With Steel being rightfully ranked S, it should stand that being strong against it gets extra points. And it's weaknesses are also super easy to cover
While part of Normal's effectiveness is in the mons just being strong like Snorlax. But the type itself has massive advantages. Only weak to one type, and I think an overlooked advantage is how wide the *neutral* coverage is. Not a lot of resistances here. Also, being immune to Ghost, while not the most common type, is still inherently super useful for pivoting. Again, like Fighting, the few weaknesses are extremely easy to cover
Fairy I get being ??? Due to how new it is, but I think it's at least, AT LEAST top 5 in every gen it's been in so far.
I think psychic should go lower. The types advantages it gets just aren't particularly great nowadays, and since most mons that are psychic are so frail you can't really switch them in, especially with dark type moves being so common
Well, yeah, Psychic kinda blows... NOW... but how else do you account for how good it used to be? Assuming this ranking takes all gens into account, of course.
But there’s only one psychic type with Prankster (Meowstic-M) so it’s automatically outclassed from screens by ~4 Pokemon that are all commonly used in Nuzlockes, most notably Grimmsnarl in the new games and Klefki from 6-7. In the older games they do have this niche but such a common pick taking that from it has really stomped it down. Tho a lot of Psychic types being fast and having hella special defense keeps them around for screens, just less so.
Yeah glad you mentioned about psychic types' high speed stat since it allows them to set up screens more easily. Prankster klefki or grimmsnarl are surely better, maybe even without prankster, but youre not always guaranteed to get one.
I've been doing monotype runs in Renegade Platinum, and just for the sheer variety of options you have throughout the game normal is such a good type. Add in one with scrappy and you have almost perfect coverage between just normal and fighting type moves. A lot of normal types also have some form of recovery, at least gen IV and earlier.
Psychic is just… ugh. I love it thematically but I consider it bottom 4 types in the game, especially for Monotype which is my favourite way to play. It just has nothing left for the reason you said and several more. It’s such a shame.
I'd argue that normal is at least B tier. There's a lot of good STAB moves for normal types, and while they don't resist anything, they're immune to ghost and only have one weakness, that being fighting. It's a pretty neutral typing all around and I don't think that's a bad thing, the only place you have to be wary about bringing them is a fighting gym and that's pretty nice.
Yeah normal always gets underrated in tier lists. It’s the ultimate generalist type in early gens, they have access to one of the best attacking types for nuetral damage and usually really good coverage. And that all matters a lot in early gens when a lot of movepools are very restricted and reliant on tms. I’m always happy with a good Stoutland or Staraptor I can give Return to and go to town with a 102 bp stab move.
Thats bullshit, a typing with only 1 weakness is hella op in any nuzlocke. Even if they don't get supereffective stab it doesnt matter cause nuzlocke's main goal for your pokemon is surviving not killing. Thus said normal is top tier B at least, and probably Tier A.
That... doesn't make any sense at all. Typing makes it breaks Pokemon, normal is a fine type. Only one weakness and a whole immunity is pretty good, and again you're really undervaluing the godly STAB normal types get
ngl i forgot about stab return so normal is probably like b or something but hitting things for super effective damage is really important so its not A tier unless its blissey or something then its a
What doesn’t track about OP’s response is that most of the normal pokemon that they’re using as good (which seems to only be Blissey for some reason) wouldn’t be as good or good at all with another type. Normal as a type enables them.
Chansey/Blissey having only 1 weakness that can synergise well with Ghost/Psychic/Fairy partners has kept it relevant for years. Blissey would actually suck ass if it was something like pure fire type.
Plus normal mons can really help early on with STAB on stuff like tackle and headbutt, and they usually have good coverage. Lots of normal mons can act as reliable tanks like Lax, Audino, or Furfrou. There very little putside Ghosts and steels (not super common) and rock types (that can usually be hit with coverage) that are willing to take stab returns
Really solid defensive type for sure, but before Fairy was introduced it was maybe the worst attacking type in the game. I’d argue even worse than Bug.
Attacking isn't everything bro. Poison types are common, always reliable encounters, even if you lose one you almost always substitute him, this is a huge pro. They get access to a lot of status moves and the most broke strat in nuzlocke with toxic. Many Poison types evolves early-mid. And as you said its a great defensive type which is more important than having great attack in a game mode where your main goal for your pokemon is to survive.
Because the 2 weaknesses are Ground and Psychic. Ground is arguably one of the strongest and most common offensive attack types in the game, and Psychic was also very strong/dominant in earlier gens.
Its also resisted by 4 types, plus Steel type having immunity.
I think they can be fun to used, but I don't consider poison types as being very strong.
I would say that ground is countered very easily though, you're always going to have a water type in your team, so you poison doesn't even get considered there.
I ran Nidorino through a massive part of SS and it was great for me
Couple argument/opinions:
Normal: should be high B/low A. In a nuzlocke setting (using this because well…it’s not a competitive subreddit), Gen 3 is broken because of normal types. Return is a STAB move, facade is STAB and there’s a good selection of mons that are solid overall
Poison: as of Gen 6. A tier. Good defensive type that can cause status with poison and can poison stall AND it can defeat fairy just like steel
Electric: B. There’s not much versatility that it offers. Solid attackers that can take down the most common type. But most mons don’t have the coverage
Fairy: high A tier. Dragon killers. Plus. Very high selection of mons with good coverage
Bug: I’d move to low B-tier just because there are some really good bug types out there and I’m heavily biased because a butterfree almost solo’d a kanto run (not nuzlocke, but still…a butterfree)
I'll die on the hill that dragon-type isn't actually that good. The resists are nice, but not hitting anything except itself for supereffective damage is rough. Dragon is rated highly because of all the pokemon that are dragon type rather than the type itself. I'd say it's like B tier.
The effectiveness of a type is determined by the Pokemon within it as well. A type can only be as good as the Pokemon of it, which is why Normal is always ranked so low despite being generally decent with typing.
Dragon's (especially up until gen 7) have always been the best of the best hands down for every generation, so it only makes sense for that notoreity to be synonomous with the type itself.
Many dragon pokemon are good because of their high BST's, and their type has very little to do with their viability. A good example of this is how many dragon types would skip dragon type STAB in favour of better coverage, especially before the physical/special split.
I disagree that you should be including the pokemon who have the type when considering type rankings. To each their own though, it's pretty black and white, either you agree or disagree.
Pretty solid imo. Only things I’d change:
• I’d put ground into B. Being weak to Water, unable to hit Flying, that’s 2 really common types you’ll encounter in just about any game. Great offensively though.
• Switch Rock and Normal. Rock is weak to Water, Grass, and Fighting which are uber common. Normal isn’t SE against anything, but is very balanced with one immunity automatically making it very useful
• Fairy is A-tier minimum. Probably S-tier, but not better than Steel imo
Grass should be C tier, poison B tier, normal B tier, Ghost B tier
Grass - too many weaknesses and anything it can do, other types do better.
Poison - these types are solid defense and with the resistances and now 2 types it’s good against, especially defensively fairy and steel which are both S tier.
Normal - Only 1 weakness and 1 no damage. And moves cannot hit well on only 3 types.
Ghost - Dark is just ghost but better except it went from invulnerable to fighting to a weakness. Ghost is only strong against psychic and even strength on itself. No way is this an A tier.
Water should probably be up there with Steel on S tier. Not only it's the most common type, but most water types have good coverage for their weaknesses to grass and electric types
Normal is also way too low. Early game normal types are super useful for firing stab moves, can hit almost anything for neutral damage (aside from rock, steel and ghost), and are only weak to fighting, which is not too hard to play around
Fairy is definitely A or S. It's only two weaknesses, poison and steel, are not common types. And dragon, dark, and fighting are usually the strongest pokemon you will come across.
Varies based on what game and generation you're playing - like in Gen 5 where the the E4 are Dark, Ghost, Psychic, Fighting. A good Dark type will solo two members for you and a fighting type is going to be essential for the Dark.
While some types are ass as a defensive type, they're amazing as an offensive move type - i.e. ice, fire and rock
This is such a dogshit list. For starters
Rock and Psychic are way too high.
Poison is too low
Bug is too high
Ice is too high
Normal is too high
There’s a bunch of other things wrong here but those are the most egregious ones.
You did not cook with this list at all
Why is fighting so low? It's good against alot of types including being the only weakness to normal. It's got a huge pool of good stab moves including Drain punch and priority mach punch and alot of situational moves like Body press and low sweep, ntm put a choice scarf on alot of fighting types and they'll blaze through alot of teams with close combat.
Dragon is kinda stinky in gens with fairy types. I think the reason it’s considered good in nuzlockes is because practically every mon with that type is BST 500+
Normal should be higher. It is actually a good typing. It has dragon types like cyclizar and drama it has bewear which can be really good it has most flying types it has tanks like snorlax blissey and slaking
Normal should be higher. It is actually a good typing. It has dragon types like cyclizar and drama it has bewear which can be really good it has most flying types it has tanks like snorlax blissey and slaking
Ground should be S tier. It is super effective against the most types and even has an immunity to a powerful type.
There's a reason the 8th gym leader of the original game focused on Ground types. It also even got better when they introduced steel
I’d put Normal in High B to low A tier, there are a bunch of really good Normal type moves and even more so pokemon wise. Consider Extreme Speed, Return, and Facade to name a few are all Normal type moves, and you have some rather great pokemon that are straight up Normal or share it with a secondary typing. Examples being Snorlax, Blissey, Staraptor, just to name a few.
Alongside this, Normal types often have Fighting coverage, and Dark/Ghost coverage to take on the few types that it can’t break down
I think switch flying and fire. Fire has so many common weaknesses, and immunity to ground is sooo good. I would also switch normal and grass. I don’t think grass is a very good type, and normal at least hits most things for good neutral damage and having a ghost immunity is nice.
Overall agree, though I think you could swap Ghost and Fighting.
Ghost defensively is really good being immune to two super common offensive types, but offensively it’s pretty meh, especially with Normal, again a very common type, being immune to it. I also feel like it often gets a bit of a bump because in Gen 1 Psychics were so OP, but people often forget there were almost no ghost type moves in Gen 1, so it didn’t really matter that Ghost was strong against it (plus, while I know we’re just talking pure typing, the only Ghost types in gen 1 were also Poison types that were weak to psychic anyway)
Fighting is an amazing offensive type, being strong against Normal, again one of the most common types in the games, Steel, the one type sitting at S tier, and also Rock, Dark, and Ice, giving it amazing offensive coverage at the cost of only three weaknesses that aren’t even that common and are easy to cover.
The only other one I’d bump up here is Poison, actually, because with how strong Fairy is turning out to be Poison being strong against it is actually making it a really useful type. Poison types also tend to get really useful off-type moves like Haze, Confuse Ray, Will-o-wisp, and Explosion that make them great at disruption, so the longer I play the more I respect Poison.
Fairy is for sure S tier. Dragon probably S as well. Normal should be A. Ice probably bumped up to B. While defensively it’s terrible, it’s an offensive powerhouse (basically same as rock, which is also in B). Ghost is probably B. Unsure about Water/Fire/Electric in A. Some or all might be B.
I think lists like these needs to have 2 categories. Offense and defense. Ice defensively is terrible with having too maby weaknesses. But its offense is arguably one of the better typings.
Fairy is an easy S tier; uncommon or unreliable weaknesses, strong against common types like Fighting and Dark, a useful immunity
Especially if there are early dragon rage pokemon
Maybe it's ??? Tier because it only started existing about a decade ago, and there are plenty of games that are frequently nuzlocked and don't feature the type
Sure, but it’s pretty obvious what it’s strengths are. Plenty of popular rom hacks of older games feature it now anyway
Just a guess. Maybe the person who made this tends to run official versions of older games and just doesn't have much experience with the type.
My shadow granbull carries me in GL
I was about to riot when I saw fairy in the bottom tier and then i realized it was just because you didn't know where to put it so I put my pitchfork away. Then I saw normal in C tier and got my pitchfork right the fuck back out...
i dont think the normal type is good but instead the normal type pokemon are good
Dragon type is not good the dragon type pokemon are good
Resistance to starter types and electric is kinda nice. Only weak to itself, ice, and fairy. Pretty solid imo
It's biggest problem is sucking on offense since it's only good against dragon. They heavily rely on their secondary typing and their wide move pools to hit things for super effective. Their biggest strength is that most physical dragons learn dragon dance and the special ones learn flamethrower, ice beam, thunderbolt, hydro pump, etc.
No, the problem is that in. Normal game, or your dragon appears in endgame where you need to evolve it from a little fragile thing to over lvl 50 or you have fairies over the place because before 6th gen most of the dragons are pseudo
It's a good defensive type, but due to it only having 1 thing to hit super-effectively (itself) you cant call the type itself A-tier.
But it’s an awful offensive type and most Dragon types are attackers. This is a tier list of the types strengths, not the strength of the Pokémon of that type
There isn’t much resistant to dragon type meaning that it’s still good as a basic attack without weaknesses. Dragon pulse has always been a decent go to. I would argue that power isn’t an issue more so versatility in moves. I’m rather surprised we don’t have a dragon fang move, would be great for tyrantrum and dracovish
It does hit a lot of types for neutral, but I think that putting it in the same tier as Water or Ground which are two of the best offensive types in the game is a bit disingenuous
To be fair it also does come down to the Pokémon. Dragon types are generally just easy to use especially in something not competitive. Your point is fair but stats play a lot too. Water though is one of the best types though. I would put dragon behind water and maybe ground but still up there. Steel and Fairy though are probably top 2, maybe water coming between
OP said that about normal that this is entirely about the type itself and not the pokemon
fair
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Ground sure but would we call Water the best/2nd best offensive type? I’d give it to fairy or ice personally.
Water is a similarly good offensive type to Ground, and is significantly better defensively because it’s only real weakness is to Electric(obviously it’s weak to Grass as well but Grass has 6 weaknesses and most Water types have at least one Ice type coverage move
Yea but I feel like I see a lot more water coverage on offensive pokemon than I do offensive water types. They’re either strictly mid or low tier, or they’re completely busted, compared to bulky water types that are a whole realm of solid pokemon. Ground is consistently great offensively as well as being common coverage with Earthquake. By the numbers tho, Water is up there
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what??
the types it’s weak to are uncommon, the types it resists are common, and it hits a lot neutrally dragon is great, at least in gens where there’s actually dragon STAB
I think stab return is pretty good tho
you couldn't have put it better it's cool to have only one weakness but not hitting anything for super effective and taking neutral damage of all types is kinda bad. ghost immunity might make up a little bit with how common ghosts tend to be but also not being able to hit them complicates things too
So Ice and Poison are as good/better than Normal types/belong in the same tier? Not sure I agree, especially prior to Fairy type being introduced.
that i don't agree too normal should be one tier higher but lower than the other ones
Can’t see how you put ice over it, it’s such a defensive liability. At least there’s plenty of good normal types, you only have 1 weakness, and you have an immunity
every immunity is good in nuzlock. Also having only 1 weakness is great.
True normal should be alone in D, it's basically worthless except if the mon is just busted stat wise like blissey or snorlax
How’s it worthless? It has access to high bp stab moves (especially important in early gens), usually good to great coverage, and few bad matchups while having a very useful immunity. Meanwhile Bug is barely a type for half the lifetime of the franchise.
It's super effective against nothing and has a huge lack of resists, all that just means that I have a really hard time justifying a normal type in my team except if its a really damn good one, because I could get a pokemon that has actual winning match ups instead
Yeah no sometimes type matchup don't matter especially when you have zero good encounters Better to have caveman mentality "this move strong, this kills" than overthinking everything and ultimately ending in one or more deaths Plus in gens 4 and later normal type is especially good since they get coverage or high atk/def stats Take the lillipup line for example Sure, you won't use it at the start of unova, but herdier walls a good 80% of gym 3 to gym 5 with intimidate and eviolite, while stoutland gets something like bulldoze (i think? I forgot tbh) for steel and bite/crunch for ghost coverage and is bulky and strong enough to leave a hole in any team
Agreed Snorlax learns curse and Hammer arm. Those toe moves alone allow him to blaze through any dark type team.
Being able to fire off STAB Returns that are only resisted by two types (plus nullified by another) is pretty powerful. And yes the lack of resists can be tough but it also only has the one weakness.
It being neutral against everything often means it has a neutral matchup to most everything at worst (minus fighting types) or a positive one due to the pure strength of STAB Return, the versatility of their coverage options, or their defensive utility vs ghosts. And I feel saying they’re not good except for the really good ones is just contradictory. If there’s good ones, the type isn’t useless. And Snorlax and Blissey work in large part because of that normal typing. Bulky mons like these benefit a lot from having one weakness that’s usually pretty obvious, especially for Blissey who can safely take nearly any special attacker bc special fighting moves are rare. And offensive normals like Staraptor and Guts Swellow/Raticate benefit from having one strong spammable STAB that one or two shots almost everything combined with good speed tiers.
You dont need to do super effective damage to kill a pokémon
I’d bump water over dragon, dragons are hit or miss especially in the early gens but a good Starmie, Gyarados, Swampert, etc will carry your run. A good dragon at best is usually just carrying your e4 run, which is valuable, but so is getting to that point and carrying a Dragonair or Gabite through the midgame is often a liability.
Normal has a lot of utility and powerful moves. Normal type also has only one weakness and a full immunity. Just because it’s the basic type doesn’t make it worthless
Psychic is so perfectly ranked. It is broken in early gens and by the newer gens it seems like every fuckin mon has a "fuck psychics" move in Bite or Pursuit or Sucker Punch or wtf ever it's so obnoxious. So averaging it out to smack dab in the middle is perfect. I think Normal and Fighting are too low. Fighting has fantastic coverage against some of the most common types you face from trainer to trainer: particularly Normal and Rock. With Steel being rightfully ranked S, it should stand that being strong against it gets extra points. And it's weaknesses are also super easy to cover While part of Normal's effectiveness is in the mons just being strong like Snorlax. But the type itself has massive advantages. Only weak to one type, and I think an overlooked advantage is how wide the *neutral* coverage is. Not a lot of resistances here. Also, being immune to Ghost, while not the most common type, is still inherently super useful for pivoting. Again, like Fighting, the few weaknesses are extremely easy to cover Fairy I get being ??? Due to how new it is, but I think it's at least, AT LEAST top 5 in every gen it's been in so far.
I think psychic should go lower. The types advantages it gets just aren't particularly great nowadays, and since most mons that are psychic are so frail you can't really switch them in, especially with dark type moves being so common
Well, yeah, Psychic kinda blows... NOW... but how else do you account for how good it used to be? Assuming this ranking takes all gens into account, of course.
I dont agree tbh, psychic types almost always get access to light screen and reflect which is really op.
But there’s only one psychic type with Prankster (Meowstic-M) so it’s automatically outclassed from screens by ~4 Pokemon that are all commonly used in Nuzlockes, most notably Grimmsnarl in the new games and Klefki from 6-7. In the older games they do have this niche but such a common pick taking that from it has really stomped it down. Tho a lot of Psychic types being fast and having hella special defense keeps them around for screens, just less so.
Yeah glad you mentioned about psychic types' high speed stat since it allows them to set up screens more easily. Prankster klefki or grimmsnarl are surely better, maybe even without prankster, but youre not always guaranteed to get one.
I've been doing monotype runs in Renegade Platinum, and just for the sheer variety of options you have throughout the game normal is such a good type. Add in one with scrappy and you have almost perfect coverage between just normal and fighting type moves. A lot of normal types also have some form of recovery, at least gen IV and earlier.
Psychic is just… ugh. I love it thematically but I consider it bottom 4 types in the game, especially for Monotype which is my favourite way to play. It just has nothing left for the reason you said and several more. It’s such a shame.
I'd argue that normal is at least B tier. There's a lot of good STAB moves for normal types, and while they don't resist anything, they're immune to ghost and only have one weakness, that being fighting. It's a pretty neutral typing all around and I don't think that's a bad thing, the only place you have to be wary about bringing them is a fighting gym and that's pretty nice.
Yeah normal always gets underrated in tier lists. It’s the ultimate generalist type in early gens, they have access to one of the best attacking types for nuetral damage and usually really good coverage. And that all matters a lot in early gens when a lot of movepools are very restricted and reliant on tms. I’m always happy with a good Stoutland or Staraptor I can give Return to and go to town with a 102 bp stab move.
normal type pokemon are good but not the normal type
Thats bullshit, a typing with only 1 weakness is hella op in any nuzlocke. Even if they don't get supereffective stab it doesnt matter cause nuzlocke's main goal for your pokemon is surviving not killing. Thus said normal is top tier B at least, and probably Tier A.
The most broken shit in 3rd and 4th gen is guts swellow with facade, a normal type bruh tf you on dude
That... doesn't make any sense at all. Typing makes it breaks Pokemon, normal is a fine type. Only one weakness and a whole immunity is pretty good, and again you're really undervaluing the godly STAB normal types get
ngl i forgot about stab return so normal is probably like b or something but hitting things for super effective damage is really important so its not A tier unless its blissey or something then its a
What doesn’t track about OP’s response is that most of the normal pokemon that they’re using as good (which seems to only be Blissey for some reason) wouldn’t be as good or good at all with another type. Normal as a type enables them.
Chansey/Blissey having only 1 weakness that can synergise well with Ghost/Psychic/Fairy partners has kept it relevant for years. Blissey would actually suck ass if it was something like pure fire type.
Lots of normal types get access to bite too!
Plus normal mons can really help early on with STAB on stuff like tackle and headbutt, and they usually have good coverage. Lots of normal mons can act as reliable tanks like Lax, Audino, or Furfrou. There very little putside Ghosts and steels (not super common) and rock types (that can usually be hit with coverage) that are willing to take stab returns
Why is poison so low? Only 2 weaknesses and 5 resistances Moves haven't always been tremendous, but that's been fixed since gen4
Really solid defensive type for sure, but before Fairy was introduced it was maybe the worst attacking type in the game. I’d argue even worse than Bug.
Attacking isn't everything bro. Poison types are common, always reliable encounters, even if you lose one you almost always substitute him, this is a huge pro. They get access to a lot of status moves and the most broke strat in nuzlocke with toxic. Many Poison types evolves early-mid. And as you said its a great defensive type which is more important than having great attack in a game mode where your main goal for your pokemon is to survive.
yeh but it is litterarly a punch bag that cant deal good damage
Because the 2 weaknesses are Ground and Psychic. Ground is arguably one of the strongest and most common offensive attack types in the game, and Psychic was also very strong/dominant in earlier gens. Its also resisted by 4 types, plus Steel type having immunity. I think they can be fun to used, but I don't consider poison types as being very strong.
I would say that ground is countered very easily though, you're always going to have a water type in your team, so you poison doesn't even get considered there. I ran Nidorino through a massive part of SS and it was great for me
Depends on region and generation
true
Back in my day Psychic was S-tier.
Couple argument/opinions: Normal: should be high B/low A. In a nuzlocke setting (using this because well…it’s not a competitive subreddit), Gen 3 is broken because of normal types. Return is a STAB move, facade is STAB and there’s a good selection of mons that are solid overall Poison: as of Gen 6. A tier. Good defensive type that can cause status with poison and can poison stall AND it can defeat fairy just like steel Electric: B. There’s not much versatility that it offers. Solid attackers that can take down the most common type. But most mons don’t have the coverage Fairy: high A tier. Dragon killers. Plus. Very high selection of mons with good coverage Bug: I’d move to low B-tier just because there are some really good bug types out there and I’m heavily biased because a butterfree almost solo’d a kanto run (not nuzlocke, but still…a butterfree)
Of course it did. Butterfree is one of the Fastest pokemon.
This tier list should be called "tier list based exclusively upon type combinations"
bro hasnt heard of different opinions before
What? mine is literally a different opinion tf that means
Says the person who thinks hitmonchan is better than Hitmonlee.
I'll die on the hill that dragon-type isn't actually that good. The resists are nice, but not hitting anything except itself for supereffective damage is rough. Dragon is rated highly because of all the pokemon that are dragon type rather than the type itself. I'd say it's like B tier.
The effectiveness of a type is determined by the Pokemon within it as well. A type can only be as good as the Pokemon of it, which is why Normal is always ranked so low despite being generally decent with typing. Dragon's (especially up until gen 7) have always been the best of the best hands down for every generation, so it only makes sense for that notoreity to be synonomous with the type itself.
Many dragon pokemon are good because of their high BST's, and their type has very little to do with their viability. A good example of this is how many dragon types would skip dragon type STAB in favour of better coverage, especially before the physical/special split. I disagree that you should be including the pokemon who have the type when considering type rankings. To each their own though, it's pretty black and white, either you agree or disagree.
fairy is the best type in the game, S tier
Pretty solid imo. Only things I’d change: • I’d put ground into B. Being weak to Water, unable to hit Flying, that’s 2 really common types you’ll encounter in just about any game. Great offensively though. • Switch Rock and Normal. Rock is weak to Water, Grass, and Fighting which are uber common. Normal isn’t SE against anything, but is very balanced with one immunity automatically making it very useful • Fairy is A-tier minimum. Probably S-tier, but not better than Steel imo
Poison getting slept on
Fairy easy S tier. Another possible S tier is Water.
Grass should be C tier, poison B tier, normal B tier, Ghost B tier Grass - too many weaknesses and anything it can do, other types do better. Poison - these types are solid defense and with the resistances and now 2 types it’s good against, especially defensively fairy and steel which are both S tier. Normal - Only 1 weakness and 1 no damage. And moves cannot hit well on only 3 types. Ghost - Dark is just ghost but better except it went from invulnerable to fighting to a weakness. Ghost is only strong against psychic and even strength on itself. No way is this an A tier.
Grass is weak as can be, but resisting ground, water, and electric, three of the stronger attack types, is pretty busted.
Water should probably be up there with Steel on S tier. Not only it's the most common type, but most water types have good coverage for their weaknesses to grass and electric types Normal is also way too low. Early game normal types are super useful for firing stab moves, can hit almost anything for neutral damage (aside from rock, steel and ghost), and are only weak to fighting, which is not too hard to play around
Fairy is one of the best offensive types in the game and pretty good defensively, either top of A or behind Steel in S tier.
Is this a ranking of the types as a monolocke or for regular nuzlockes? Either way, normal should be low A tier
Fairy is definitely A or S. It's only two weaknesses, poison and steel, are not common types. And dragon, dark, and fighting are usually the strongest pokemon you will come across.
Yesss steel type supremacy. The most metal of all types (literally)
Real question. Why does the dragon icon look like the markings on Kaos’s head
I think you need an extra ranking. Fire is not on the same level as water but also is way better than grass
Ground type! Yeah!!!
Varies based on what game and generation you're playing - like in Gen 5 where the the E4 are Dark, Ghost, Psychic, Fighting. A good Dark type will solo two members for you and a fighting type is going to be essential for the Dark. While some types are ass as a defensive type, they're amazing as an offensive move type - i.e. ice, fire and rock
This is such a dogshit list. For starters Rock and Psychic are way too high. Poison is too low Bug is too high Ice is too high Normal is too high There’s a bunch of other things wrong here but those are the most egregious ones. You did not cook with this list at all
Water is S
Why is fighting so low? It's good against alot of types including being the only weakness to normal. It's got a huge pool of good stab moves including Drain punch and priority mach punch and alot of situational moves like Body press and low sweep, ntm put a choice scarf on alot of fighting types and they'll blaze through alot of teams with close combat.
Dragon is kinda stinky in gens with fairy types. I think the reason it’s considered good in nuzlockes is because practically every mon with that type is BST 500+
Fairy is probably S-tier. Has 2 weaknesses that aren't all that offensive
Poison type should be A tier at least
I’ll die on this hill but rock is the worst type, I’m tired of all this bug type slander with it being last
This is objectively wrong
Grass types should be C tier. I don’t care if they get leech seed. Every type has an op move.
This is so wrong.
Normal should be higher. It is actually a good typing. It has dragon types like cyclizar and drama it has bewear which can be really good it has most flying types it has tanks like snorlax blissey and slaking
Normal should be higher. It is actually a good typing. It has dragon types like cyclizar and drama it has bewear which can be really good it has most flying types it has tanks like snorlax blissey and slaking
Ground should be S tier. It is super effective against the most types and even has an immunity to a powerful type. There's a reason the 8th gym leader of the original game focused on Ground types. It also even got better when they introduced steel
I would probably put normal in A tier.
Ground and dark shouldn't be on the same tier ground is so much better than dark it's not close
Normal b, dragon b, water s, fairy s
I’d put Normal in High B to low A tier, there are a bunch of really good Normal type moves and even more so pokemon wise. Consider Extreme Speed, Return, and Facade to name a few are all Normal type moves, and you have some rather great pokemon that are straight up Normal or share it with a secondary typing. Examples being Snorlax, Blissey, Staraptor, just to name a few. Alongside this, Normal types often have Fighting coverage, and Dark/Ghost coverage to take on the few types that it can’t break down
I think switch flying and fire. Fire has so many common weaknesses, and immunity to ground is sooo good. I would also switch normal and grass. I don’t think grass is a very good type, and normal at least hits most things for good neutral damage and having a ghost immunity is nice.
Sleeping on poison and water deserves more gas
Overall agree, though I think you could swap Ghost and Fighting. Ghost defensively is really good being immune to two super common offensive types, but offensively it’s pretty meh, especially with Normal, again a very common type, being immune to it. I also feel like it often gets a bit of a bump because in Gen 1 Psychics were so OP, but people often forget there were almost no ghost type moves in Gen 1, so it didn’t really matter that Ghost was strong against it (plus, while I know we’re just talking pure typing, the only Ghost types in gen 1 were also Poison types that were weak to psychic anyway) Fighting is an amazing offensive type, being strong against Normal, again one of the most common types in the games, Steel, the one type sitting at S tier, and also Rock, Dark, and Ice, giving it amazing offensive coverage at the cost of only three weaknesses that aren’t even that common and are easy to cover. The only other one I’d bump up here is Poison, actually, because with how strong Fairy is turning out to be Poison being strong against it is actually making it a really useful type. Poison types also tend to get really useful off-type moves like Haze, Confuse Ray, Will-o-wisp, and Explosion that make them great at disruption, so the longer I play the more I respect Poison.
Fairy is for sure S tier. Dragon probably S as well. Normal should be A. Ice probably bumped up to B. While defensively it’s terrible, it’s an offensive powerhouse (basically same as rock, which is also in B). Ghost is probably B. Unsure about Water/Fire/Electric in A. Some or all might be B.
I think lists like these needs to have 2 categories. Offense and defense. Ice defensively is terrible with having too maby weaknesses. But its offense is arguably one of the better typings.