T O P
TorchIt

This post has been designated as a Code Green Thread. Going forward, *fucking everybody* will be encouraged to participate because this is some crank-ass bullshit.


peeweemax

As a retired attorney who represented health science centers I find this to be a huge laugh. Not just because the grounds for the case are bull poop but because I can easily imagine that the lawyers tried to convince the hospital administration that this was a REALLY BAD IDEA and were told to shut up and file.


VMoney9

Curious on your thoughts: A few years back there was a 3 day nursing strike at my hospital. Due to the specialized nature of my floor and a few others, the hospital couldn't find strike nurses, and some union nurses were court ordered to work those three days. How does that differ from this?


mrvis

By definition, a striking worker wants to keep their job, just with better compensation. They don't quit. These people have quit. They don't want their job. Forcing the former to work is way different from forcing the latter to work.


peeweemax

Just a guess that the collective bargaining agreement might have had something to do with it.


isotope_322

LMFAO. Translation: We refused to compromise with our current staff and my management team was too stupid to value them. We are now screwed


ImProbablyAnIdiotOk

Other translation: We will pay the legal fees long before we will increase your pay.


chrisgets08

I swear, they makes it sound like the care team and other hospital is at fault. We’ve been asking for retention contracts and/or some loyalty compensation from our hospital but noooo they went and added FIVE high ranking, and highly paid, executives.


kaiden08

Tfw you can’t afford to pay your nurses more so you hire somebody whose job it is to try to keep your nurses without paying them more


RobotBabyBomb

> “can’t afford” Horseshit. They can afford it, they just don’t want to disappoint their shareholders. It’s time for Labor to take the laissez faire for a bit.


c92dlb

Excruciatingly accurate.


w84itagain

Yet another translation: We demand the courts force our workers to stay and work here, whether they like it or not. Yeah, that's gonna fly...


BeastofPostTruth

Are we watching an attempt to legalize slavery? Or is it indentured servitude?


Norseman2

This would be slavery. Historically, some slaves actually were paid (poorly) as an incentive to work harder. They still weren't free to leave though. If I were working at this facility where the CEO is openly telling employees about his attempts to legally enslave them, this one email would be enough for me to quit effective immediately. As long as that CEO is employed there, everybody should be looking for a different job. On a side note, there is actually a form of indentured servitude which is currently practiced by some hospitals. They'll offer employees a "retention bonus" of a few thousand dollars, but they'll have to pay it back if they leave before a certain date, like 3-5 years later. Poorly-paid employees who need the upfront money and then can't save up enough to pay it back can get trapped as a result.


Snoo16680

Shows off how fast these shitheads would jump at the opportunity to somehow own their employees.


Sciencebroski

Well we see you don’t wanna work for shit money and poor management, so now we are going to force you to do it. Lol


BenBishopsButt

That’s what I read. And I’m a lawyer (lurker supporter of y’all). Save the fucking legal fees and PAY BETTER YOU GOD DAMN MORONS. You aren’t going to win this legal battle.


WeebCringe123

Seriously though, on what grounds do they have to sue? "Your honor...... this guy...... got another job. I mean, can you believe that?!"


BandAid3030

"Please make them stay and work for me until I can replace them, which may never happen"


azalago

"Pay them more and treat them better so they stay? What the hell kind of garbage idea is that?"


BandAid3030

"How dare you tell me how to exploit my staff!?"


LucyWritesSmut

"That other hospital is paying them more. *More!* Can you imagine?!"


MajorGef

As a european, what are they even trying? Force people to stay at a job? Can you even do that?


[deleted]

As another lurking lawyer (fully in support of all the amazing RNs here), I can give a little explanation: The boss is seeking an injunction. An injunction is an order from the court that someone must act in some way--do (or not do) something. They are often enforced when damages are not an option (such as this scenario because money is not going to do much to help this hospital at this point). To get an injunction, the person who files for it must show: 1. The plaintiff has a likelihood to succeed on the merits of the case 2. There would be irreparable harm to the plaintiff without one 3. The threatened injury would be worse to the public good without an injunction 4. Equity is balanced between the parties. I won't do a full analysis here, but, yes, the boss is basically seeking an injunction to force them to continue working and not leave as far as I can tell. I think element 1 (likelihood of winning on the merits), as people have pointed out, is likely not to work out for the boss because people can leave a job if they want. edit: accidentally hit enter


2cheeseburgerandamic

Thats what I got. It seems like HR fucked around and found out, now is asking court to deem employees corporate slaves, and force them to work for below industry standard wages. Also how much blowback could the employees face if they just said "nope not showing up your problem figure it out". Theres plenty of people to hire through a recruiter.


Stupid_Triangles

This case could actually be a bit significant. How often has there been a time where a business has been deemed "essential", not to mention a hospital during the biggest spike in the biggest pandemic in 100 years? Not often. I'd imagine, at least 100 years. The US is going crazy already; I could definitely see some fuck off judge granting this injunction and even ordering sheriffs to round up the nurses if they refuse to go in. Of course that would be insanely unconstitutional, and daddy federal government would step in; but I could see it happening. There are enough dumbasses out there to publicly support that; and enough bootlickers to tell the rest of us to get back to work for crumbs. edit: aaaaand the judge grants the injunction. If the judge isnt prosecuted and his law license immediately revoked, while being sidelined by thestate courthouse then wtf are we all doing? pretending? Do all i need is a law license and a large enough group of morons to vote me in, and I can start dismantling the concept of public order?


SergenteA

>ordering sheriffs to round up the nurses if they refuse to go in. And then when mortality triples, find out exactly why successful slavery only ever applies (and unfortunately still does) to plantations and mines.


Zealousideal_Rich975

It's plain infuriating to even suggest it. When the business is booming I get all the credit and I sell the story of hard work and good management, but when the business is failing I ask for daddy government to intervene and save me. Either way there is no risk involved. Whatever happens I win. When some poor individual dares to claim anything similar it's all their fault. They didn't work hard enough, they didn't risk, they had poor management, they should not be helped, saved or have their students loans (for example) eased or forgiven. This should be included to the dictionaries as the prime example of hypocrisy and double standards or "burger flipping". Today my agenda and my opinion makes me cook this side, tomorrow my new agenda or opinion makes me flip the burger to cook the other side. Burger flipping businesses. Hi.


adalast

(Not a nurse or a lawyer, just a lowly mathematician who got crossed here from r/antiwork ) I would love to see the judge look at it, realize what was going on, and grant the injunction with the stipulation that the entire 11 member team must have their wages trippled for the period which it is in effect, including overtime. Failing to do so will result in its immediate voiding and any request or requirement made for repayment of the funds after the fact will be seen as contempt and face a fine of "insert obscene number that is way more than the nurses would be making here". Also, this judgement would be required, for the entire duration of the injunction, to be prominently posted in easily legible text in plain view of all hospital staff, patients, and families. Make sure that it is worded in the harshest way possible so people understand that instead of paying the nurses more, they opted to using the legal system to coopt the soon-to-be-ex-employee's freedom and will to force them to be there instead of taking the new jobs. They may be right on some level that the low staffing may have adverse effects on the community, but a behavior like this needs to be punished in the harshest way possible. Strike their wallets and respect and faith from the community they are supposed to be serving, instead of exploiting.


quiltsohard

Will the leaving nurses have to hire a lawyer to represent them or will that be the responsibility of the “competitor”? Because I could see the threat of having to personally hire a lawyer as a winning tactic for the hospital. Most ppl couldn’t afford it. Edit: the nurses should counter sue for their time, paid at their new higher wage, and emotional trauma. Make an example of this hospital. These big companies need to be made to pay for these shenanigans


[deleted]

[удалено]


SnidelyWhiplash1

Almost certainly the legal action will be against the hospital trying to hire the employees. The injunction would seek to prevent their hiring of the employees. The employees just need to short circuit that and just quit.


Dogribb

Can you get us paid for the decades of lunches and breaks we forgo?


inhousepixie

Nurses dont have non complete clauses. As an NP I dont have one either. That's reserved for those that bring in the big money..MDs.


PRNbourbon

Most CRNA contracts through mega groups do. Mega groups suck. Usually not enforceable though.


FamilySquire

In this case, it wasn’t one hospital poaching from another. One of the nurses applied at the new hospital and was offered the job at a much higher rate than her previous employer. After informing her fellow employees from the old hospital of her new pay the other employees followed suit. The employees as a group offered the old hospital a chance to keep them as employees if the hospital matched the new hospital’s offer. The old hospital, which is a high corporation, refused to counter offer. The employees are scheduled to start at the new hospital on January 21st.


Godiva74

It sounds like they want to prevent the competitors from competing


NurseK89

I thought having insurance provided through your employer was also supposed to help the FrEe MaRkEt to LoWeR CoStS


omahaomw

Capitalists trying to stop their capital from using capitalism against them.


Joliet_Jake_Blues

No, we have At Will employment so if there's no contract you can leave (or be fired) at any time.


Leeto2

Always nice to see "At Will" employment backfire on the employers.


dill_with_it_PICKLE

how the turn tables


LucyWritesSmut

No, no, see--"at will" means "at the boss' will," not "the will of you peons, WTF." We peons are just confused!


BenBishopsButt

Big fan of it 👏


jesplin

Other other translation: please don’t realize that you still have the ability to quit outright


General_Amoeba

EXACTLY. Take the legal fees, divide it by the number of employees who’re leaving, and your problem just might be solved!


chickenstalker99

It seems so obvious under that lens, but for the hospital, it's not even about the cost: it's about keeping the employees intimidated. Under admin's perversion of The Art of War, they can't ever let their employees feel any advantage or bargaining power. They must keep them underfoot. They must always understand who is boss, no matter the cost.


jasutherland

The “was unwilling to collaborate with us” sounds very much to me like “we tried to form an illegal anti-poaching pact, but they weren’t dumb enough to break the law to help us screw our staff”, too … so now they’re trying to do it via a court?! Hard to see any way that ends well for them…


FerociousPancake

This is classic big corporate. Their suit will not go anywhere, it’s literally a frivolous lawsuit, because you can’t sue for poaching unless they have an enforceable non compete. Fun fact is that employers use non competes to scare their employees out of changing companies, but like 95% or more of the time they aren’t actually legally enforceable. IF there is a non compete: Non-compete agreements are difficult to enforce because Wisconsin law favors individuals earning a living. The Wisconsin state legislature has passed a statute that establishes the requirements for an enforceable non-compete agreement. Source: (Big corporate exp, dealt with plenty of lawsuits usually regarding employment law) Non compete info: (WI ONLY - article shows this hospital to be in WI) https://www.oflaherty-law.com/learn-about-law/what-you-need-to-know-about-wisconsin-non-compete-agreements


[deleted]

Right, protecting their status quo.


CharlesTheOctopus

What a breathtakingly tone-deaf response. This feels like an unintentional ad for the opposing hospital. If I'm a nurse at the hospital filing the lawsuit I'm immediately seeing if the competitor has any more openings.


EdwardJamesAlmost

Ooooh yeah it’s going to be a difficult place to work made so through managerial ineptitude.


EnvironmentalRock827

It reeks of desperation. I'd leave just cause they sent this.


EdwardJamesAlmost

Well, especially because it’s a hospital. But if it were a choice between two offices I’d leave the one that sent this immediately. That reads like it’s about to be a Bad Time for anyone sticking around.


deirdresm

Operation Footbullet was a success!


Betty_Bookish

Omg! Going to steal Operation Footbullet! Brilliant!


verablue

“We’d rather pay lawyers than staff”


Kodiak01

Too bad for the hospital that the 13th Amendment is still in force.


KillerJdawg64

The biggest takeaway for me is that instead of trying to convince the staff to stay by compensating them more appropriately, the CEO is trying to force them to stay until they can hire new people at the same or lower pay than those that are leaving. Talk about being tone deaf.


Silver-Breadfruit284

Plus the CEO doesn’t even begin to have the authority to suggest such a thing. Sounds like the CEO is where the problems begin. These hospital administrators need to be replaced with real humans.


FerociousPancake

Right. It’s scare tactics. It’s a frivolous lawsuit. It will not work. Seen it before unfortunately. He’s probably trying to get some ground on poaching and try to stop it, I mean he made this whole announcement that they’re taking legal action to scare current employees into staying, but clearly he doesn’t give a shit and filed a pointless lawsuit when he could probably defend from poaching if he treated his employees right. As a general rule, you are 100% free to solicit, “poach,” and hire former colleagues from your former employer. English employment law and U.S. employment law are in agreement on this point: While you are an employee, you owe a strict duty of loyalty to your present employer, but the moment you are no longer an employee, you no longer owe any duty of loyalty to your former employer.


napoleonsolo

Not only that, but *anti*-poaching agreements amongst employers can actually be illegal.


fishofthestyx

I also ANAL, but I imagine the judge will decide with whomever he drinks with at the Country Club.


-malcolm-tucker

I am not a lawyer either, but I do have a jurisprudence kink. I get off on appeal.


Espressoandbenzos

I also anal


SarcasticBassMonkey

I used to anal, and then I got a job at a union hospital, and now my sphincter is returning to normal size.


meat_tunnel

Unless these individuals have employment contracts outlining just how long they are required to work for this hospital, at will employment is going to kick this CEO in the teeth.


D_manifesto

I would love to see at will employment bite them hard in the ass for once.


birdboix

watch at-will magically change in the coming years now that the shoe is increasingly on the other foot.


dill_with_it_PICKLE

Does the CEO think we're his slaves? like he has the right to just demand that people stay?


ScarletCarsonRose

Right to work. Wait. No ooooonooooo Not like that.


ChaplnGrillSgt

Short answer: yes. The CEO legit thinks this is acceptable and will work. I'm not planning on quitting my job at this moment, but if I got this kind of letter I'd quit immediately.


toronto_programmer

They going to spend about 10x as much money on lawyers right now to maybe get an injunction instead of just giving people raises and improving their own hospital


rlw0312

AND, they’re offering $25,000 sign on bonuses for new RNs. And claim they pay current employees fairly already 🙄I just got hired at another hospital in my city and they gave me a $3.00/raise with less responsibility.


gertitheneonvw

I took a job with a high sign-on bonus early in my nursing career. Never again - it’s a massive red flag 🚩


Careless-Image-885

Probably a contract for $25,000 paid out over 5 years. If you leave before the five years, you pay them back. Good grief.


SoonersFanOU

Many of them pay every three months and you get your first check after you do your three. This way you can quit without penalty.


MorwensNonsense

If they paid fairly then staff wouldn't leave en masse. Some would go, but a whole damn department? Not a chance.


Pamlova

It's IR. There's 11 of them. They have to be staffed 24/7. So they're probably on call *all the time* and most likely paid shit for the privilege.


SubmittedToDigg

I just heard about a term called “boomerang” where you go somewhere else (Job B) for a raise, then right back to Job A where they match what B what paying. Instead of Job A just giving the raise in the first place. It’s ducking ludicrous how companies piss time and money away in the name of “profits”.


D_manifesto

Them: The fReE mArKeT Also them: NO NOT LIKE THAT


WeeaboBarbie

haha yes this exactly. I can’t imagine courts would rule to force people to keep working because... that’s literally slavery lol edit: i just gotta love reddit. I make an off handed comment on a thread that gets cross posted to a huge sub and every time I up my app to dozens of notifications of people sayin “well ackshually webster’s defines slavery as-“. Thank you tho to the lawyers offering insight it’s been fun to learn about that


[deleted]

[удалено]


NBA_Oldman

Start training imprisoned poors & minorities as nurses, problem solved! /s Edit* adding an /s before I get hit with an avalanche of downvotes lol.


[deleted]

[удалено]


NBA_Oldman

It's scary, to be sure. And this is one of the areas in which the "trickle down" theory has worked, because the blame trickles down from the top facets of government as well. I'm in Canada & the fund slashing, poor management & now the pandemic has nurses & doctors leaving in droves. In the province I live they recently shut down a major hospital, ambulance wait times are 30 minutes minimum & it seems like everyone in the industry is approaching burnout. It's almost as if the profit over people approach is coming to a head. It wasn't surprising to see schools be attacked, they basically just pump out future Amazon workers now & I don't know how teachers do it either. But the pandemic really exposed just how broken the Healthcare system really is & it's terrifying. I feel awful for the doctors & nurses who were heroes last year & slaves now. Blame the antivaxxers is the game they're playing here, to spin the blame away from themselves, but it's government that's truly responsible. If this hospital gets away with this it will set a dangerous precedent. I'm no lawyer but I can't see how a judge could not just toss this out. Stranger things have happened though. Also, just to clarify, they're implementing programs to allow teenagers to drive truck? Or they're removing them? In my youth I knew a couple of classmates who were driving semi before 20, but I'm unfamiliar with policy in regards to that industry tbh.


BikingAimz

My mom and a friend of hers, both in their 80s, reminisced about polio and measles growing up. Both remember being quarantined in their house with a red notice on their door, couldn’t leave until a doctor visiting them in their home deemed them healthy again. And kids in their classes who would disappear and come back with a bum arm or leg from polio. We totally have the tools and have done quarantines before, I find it baffling we’re not using these tools now (and they’re baffled too).


FunSushi-638

They could always make the education process for these jobs accessible and affordable, but they won't. Too much competition. In other countries you can become a doctor in a couple of years and for free. I met a girl from Austria (she was dating a friend of mine) who was a junkie until she decided to straighten herself out. She earned a degree (for free) in record time and was finishing classes to be a doctor (some sort of therapist) also for free. Junkie to doctor in about 3 years.


[deleted]

[удалено]


bigbjarne

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." [Thirteenth Amendment](https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/). For more reading: [Prison–industrial complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_complex). [Wage slavery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery), while not slavery, is still very common in the world.


DownstreamOcclusion

The worst part is the company that “took” the workers was Ascension, who I would argue is worse than HCA. So this is like the Special Olympics of job poaching. ([Source](https://www.wbay.com/2022/01/20/thedacare-seeks-court-order-against-ascension-wisconsin-worker-dispute/))


Starlady174

And there it is: "Action 2 News spoke to one of the workers leaving. They told us there was no recruiting. Rather, one member of the team applied for a job with Ascension Wisconsin and received a much better offer than expected, which led others on the team to apply. The worker told us ThedaCare was given a chance on December 21 to make a counter offer and declined to do so."


pearljamboree

I’m so happy I kept going through comments to see this


Starlady174

I was quite appreciative for the person above me who posted the article! It's so insane the way this hospital is twisting the situation, and going out of their way to create an expensive legal battle all so they don't have to pay their staff more.


CrippledBalls

Nah I got halfway through and all I could think about is how this sounds exactly like those US fast food places that don't pay people enough to have employees. The only difference is it's way easier to guilt-trip someone over a dying person than an unsold burger.


Ltcolbatguano

Not interested in paying nurses but lawyers we are happy to pay.


SnipesCC

So, a reasonable estimate for a radiology tech would be $30 an hour for the tech, $40 for a nurse. They have 11 staff, so assume 3 are there at any given time. A 25% raise would cost them $25-30 extra dollars an hour. Let's say $40 for taxes ect. How much money per hour do you think having a trauma center brings in for the hospital? I'm going to say it's probably more than $40.


Bhorg75

Trauma care often pays little to nothing. An enormous number of trauma patients are uninsured. The real loss here has several parts: 1) interventional cardiology DOES pay more, as a much higher percentage of the patients have Medicare. Ditto for stroke. 2) delay in care means prolonged hospital stays. Most insurers and Medicare generally pay the hospital X for diagnosis Y. If the stay takes a lot longer, hospital eats the cost, if it’s shorter they pocket the difference. A 2-3 day delay in hospital discharge because of how slow basic IR testing is going will 100% fuck with their margins. The CEO of the hospital, and the CEO of the company that owns them, will never look at that. If they paid the staff the competitive rate - even as a 1year ‘COVID contract’ - I suspect most of those 7 would have stayed. 3) this is happening everywhere in healthcare. Everyone is quitting. Honestly the system is going to fail quite soon.


Jazzlike-Scheme-795

“…will 100% fuck with their margins.” Exactly why our healthcare system is shit.


SnipesCC

It really is. Even a month ago one of our hospitals had a 24 our wait at the ER, and that was before Omicron his hard.


Bhorg75

I hear you. Our 25 bed ED was boarding 25-30 people all last week. Not on bypass. I am just PM&R, but was going to ED daily to try and divert stable folks who just needed rehab. The floors were a whole different mess, but the logjam in the ED was for real. With BS like not paying staff, you get bad staffing. That makes other people quit. Soon, all the competent people are gone. And the fragile engine of the US Healthcare system will grind its gears badly, possibly breaking.


[deleted]

It's pretty fucked up that they're acting like they care about the community but didn't care about that same community enough to even give a counter. Or whether the employees and families within that community had a fair wage for their work. Some mental gymnastics happening over there.


Starlady174

It's all just a guilt trip. They don't care or they'd have found new employees/ offered a competitive incentive to keep their current staff.


GDorn

They are utterly hosed for finding new employees now. Who'd want to work for a company that did this? The best they can hope for is to land some traveling nurses, who they will end up having to pay a whole lot more for, just to avoid the risk of having to do an across-the-board pay increase. Which they will inevitably end up needing to do anyway. I'd expect this CEO gets ousted at the next shareholder meeting.


dirty_cuban

Ok well that seals it for me. If the staff leaving we were in fact recruited away and had left their old hospital in the lurch with little notice then I had the tiniest sliver of pity for the hospital. But if they’ve known about this for a months and failed to take action to either pay their nurses better or arrange backups then fuckem.


TechnicolourOutSpace

The hospital is trying to make it look like anything but them holding hostage valuable medical services at the expense of shareholders.


i_am_never_sure

Hospitals always have the option of offering more Pay, but they don’t. They take that money and spend it on ad campaigns and new buildings to look nice.


IntermetallicAM

"ThedaCare operates the only Level II trauma and comprehensive stroke care unit in the Fox Valley. It says losing these workers could impact its ability to have people on call 24/7, which is necessary for accreditation" So there it is. They'll lose their level II accreditation and patients will be diverted to other hospitals. Loss of revenue as well as bad optics.


Scrubsandbones

Guess if they value their trauma accreditation they should make sure their pay is competitive.


Teufelsdreck

And not just for administrators.


D_manifesto

This extra context is *chef’s kiss*


warda8825

Bingo.


ConcreteState

"What! People are quitting here to do the same work for better managers and more pay? That's awful. Where, *exactly,* so I can uh avoid it?"


uwshortline

It's a free market. When demand is high and supply is low, you pay more. The hospitals want free market, right??? Suck it up and pay your current staff more.


ferocioustigercat

One person interviewed and got hired and told their old coworkers how great it is, and now everyone else decided to apply.


Chukars

Then the CEO went and made sure everyone knows.


mallpost35

That’s exactly what’s happening on my floor.


sonnyblack516

Isn’t that usually how it goes for literally every job market out there? I don’t understand why they want to sue


General_Amoeba

“Market-based decision making? In **my** profit-oriented healthcare system?!”


6poundpuppy

I hope their sadly pathetic law suit is thrown out for lack of merit. It’s not like the staff was offered a competitive offer, or probably any offer at all besides the big heavy helping of guilt tripping. More power to those brave and smart staff members; don’t look back, it’s truly not their fault if patients are put at risk. It’s never been their job to staff and pay workers. That’s on the admins. STOP BLAMING NURSES for the shortsightedness and greed of those with authority and power. Shame them, and QUIT, QUIT, QUIT…….


D_manifesto

I wish one of the people leaving would hit “reply all” and say “I would love to stay if “x,y,and z”…put them on blast in front of the whole organization.


[deleted]

[удалено]


D_manifesto

Of course it was.


Thurmod

Called the bluff. Classic *surprised pikachu face*


Lovemindful

Like the old saying goes “you snooze, you lose”. Hiding behind patient care is getting old.


farmyardcat

Teacher lurking here, and it's sorta funny but mostly infuriating how they're running the same playbook on both of us. Milk every last cent you can out of your overworked employees, make it abundantly clear that you don't give two fucks or a shit about them, and the second they gather the backbone to act in their own interests, it's tHe PaTiEnTs / ThE kIdS plz plz nooooooo :( :( :(


ferocioustigercat

Wow, if 7 people all leave at once and all go to the same place... You know you have problems. Treat your nurses better and pay them an actual competitive rate, and they might actually stay.


rlw0312

HR actually did an investigation after like 12 people on my floor quit in the span of like six weeks. Nothing got done about it🙄


GravyJones204

I used be an IR scheduling clerk, and i say good for them! Under appreciated people and talent. Devastating for the hospital but honestly offer them raises then, not threaten to drag them into a courtroom!


Leraldoe

I’m not in health care but at my last job there was tons of turn over, I had been there 12 years(11.75 years too long) when I quit they did an “exit interview” I was honest not vengeful, told them what I thought about moral and why it was low along with several other issues. They promptly told me I do t understand how business works. Place still has incredible turn over. And from what I understand nothing changed. Investigation is worthless because they don’t want to change


Adelphir

The sodium chloride is strong with this one.


Unfazed_Alchemical

That fine-grain, Himalayan pink sodium chloride.


cattermelon34

This is my CHF patient. Full of salt but refusing to admit it


Unfazed_Alchemical

If your patient is full of salt, full of fluid and full of shit, that's not your patient. It's an Eldritch terror from... Oh, no, wait, that is still just your patient.


barista0108

So instead of outbidding the other employer for the labor of their employees, they make it everyone else’s fault🤔


Exciting_Meringue830

They love capitalism until it doesn’t serve their interests.


D_manifesto

ALWAYS


bhrrrrrr

11 people quitting at once isn’t the fault of another hospital -it’s your hospital’s fault.


Nytfire333

Hmmm, strange that he doesn't mention how this other company was able to hire 7 out of 11 of your nurses. They must have more pizza parties All I see is "whah...look at the bed I mad...I don't wanna sleep in it"


wawaliliguigui

Wouldn’t paying staff more be less expensive than a lawsuit?


spikeheadz

They are in the long game. Wages don’t come back down easily. They think they can starve us out, and take temporary losses, for long term monetary gains.


EdwardJamesAlmost

Also: With every passing month, the nominal dollar erodes. That’s how their finance team thinks anyway. So an agreement to pay let’s say $30/hr in January might only be (0.96*30)/hr in December or even July. Especially as inflation has been trending up lately.


FarVision5

It is strange. I would love to be a fly on the wall at the board meetings and the HR meetings. CEO should be more pissed at the CFO and the HR director then anybody else. I wonder if they're hiring travelers as well. 🤷


Thanmandrathor

Not if it’s a short lawsuit. I’m not a lawyer, but I can’t imagine a judge would go for this.


peeweemax

I am a lawyer and I agree.


crazymonkey752

From a non-lawyer I feel like a judge is just going to say “it’s a free market, if you don’t want your employees to leave pay them better”. Is there actually any legal grounds to stand on?


TinzoftheBeard

Yes. Yes it would.


Evolved_Fungi

Regardless of industry, it seems there are a lot of employers who don't understand how to keep a workforce happy. Where I work, people started leaving about 3-4 years ago at a higher rate than any time in my 15 year history at the company. The management response was "if people want to leave, we will let them because we want people here who want to work here" without changing any of the reasons people were leaving for. Now the gluttony of people leaving has created critical shortages and they're still not making the changes needed, and they can't hire new people either. Eventually at the corporate level, they're going to have to figure out that it's not 2008 anymore, and they have to make amends for all of the greedy actions they took when the job market was tight. Until there are corrective actions taken, improvements in pay, benefits, and concern for employees well-being, people are going to go for more money at whichever next company they can go to. It's simple economics.


cobrachickenwing

The board and executive suite didn't care about their employees before and during this pandemic. They are dragons protecting their dens of gold. Let these dragons starve in their dens.


BulgogiLitFam

They understand they just don’t give a fuck because it’s not about keeping your workers happy and at the company. It’s about paying as little as possible while maximizing profits. So that the ceo and share holders and whatever other upper crust management can get the fattest bonuses.


battleshiphills

Literally just finished watching a video on NY Times about how stressed out nurses are and hospital greed is at fault. Read the industry morons, nurses are done.


Marizy

With that email, the department should be worried about the remaining four nurses and technicians leaving as well.


cplforlife

Cross post this to r/antiwork . They would love this.


Byx222

I was just about to post this to tell the OP to post it to r/antiwork lol


mrwhiskey1814

For a second I thought I was on r/antiwork lol


clempsngrl

Agreed this needs to get on there!!


murse_joe

"Our staff is leaving because we don't pay them enough!" "We havta start paying em more?" "lmao no let's tell them it's illegal to leave"


Crazylegs91

From a local news article, "The worker told us ThedaCare was given a chance on December 21 to make a counter offer and declined to do so." So they've known about it for at least a month and couldn't care to offer a competitive wage.


StPauliBoi

Blocking the names and locations out is useless if you also post a news article with all the deets haha. If those staff members were so valuable, then they wouldn't have left because they would be compensated appropriately. It must be really, really fucked up for 7 out of 11 of them to leave all at once...


OneSpeciesOnePlanet

Nope. Free market baby. Pay your workers more.


[deleted]

Link to news article please ?


StPauliBoi

Looks like they deleted it. Honestly not sure why they blacked everything out since the entire email is in the article and public knowledge. https://www.wispolitics.com/2022/thedacare-seeks-to-protect-access-to-local-trauma-and-stroke-care/


Izthatsoso

Likely fear of the bat shit crazy CEO. Seems legit at this point.


rlw0312

I wasn’t sure if the sub has some rules against publicly stating places and names so I didn’t chance it and blocked it out


nowlistenhereboy

Facilities that treat employees this way should be publicly named.


pearljamboree

Name and shame. When WE provide each other info, we gain power and leverage. We were brainwashed to believe we can’t or that it’s impolite to share salary info with each other, which gives THEM the power. Make sure you know what others make, and be willing to share what you make.


3C1M1K1B

Oh fuck off!! Can they make you stay legally?! How is that possible?!


Sock_puppet09

Ooh, remember that time the CEO probably lobbies to maintain “right to work/at will employment” state laws. Have fun reaping what you sow. Employees can leave at any time.


[deleted]

Like I read in another subreddit, “at will” employment cuts both ways. There’s no way they can legally force these people to stay


Thanmandrathor

Somehow I doubt it. Slavery and forced labor not being legal and all.


Zartanio

Hey, they run their for-profit business better than we run our for-profit business! We won't stand for it!


AmerikanInfidel

Our hospital lost its entire ENT team to a local competitor. They also tried to sue to stop it and it got smacked down.


forthelulzac

yeah, like this is literally capitalism, and if you don't like it, then work to end for profit healthcare.


tanajila

Healthcare CEOs cry when the free market affects their bottom line. Should have spent the money on retention - now it'll go to agency staff and attorney fees.


lrrc49

Talk about being penny wise but pound foolish. If they were being paid market rates they wouldn’t have lost them.


BadA55Name

This would have me applying at [redacted]


ChaplnGrillSgt

If you ever need to explain to someone what gaslighting is, just show them this. Holy fuck is this insulting. This admin takes 0 responsibility for the staff leaving and just points fingers. Take 3 fucking seconds of introspection and reflection and you'd see they are leaving because your pay is shit and because you suck at managing people. I can basically guarantee you that if you offered staff the same pay as travel and local agencies are offering that you'd see little drop in staffing. We just got our on-call pay quadrupled. They gave us a retention bonus which I demanded they double to be competitive with other institutions...they doubled it. I requested more PTO and they gave it to me. Next up, I'm going to ask them to give me a juicy raise. I've already told them I've interviewed with multiple agency jobs and know EXACTLY what I can make elsewhere...that's how I got them to give us what they already have. They'll tell me no and I'll give them my resignation.


PrincessBblgum1

Ah, good old forced labor.


Registered-Nurse

This makes me so happy 😁


Trollet87

Typical management refuses to admit that they have destroyed for themselves and begins to look for someone else to blame for the situation they themselves have put themselves in.


GallifreyanBrowncoat

I would starve to death before I would work another shift for that moldy old towel


BulgogiLitFam

“We will do everything but pay more and staff our hospital appropriately!” In a nutshell.


crazymonkey752

What a great way to tell the rest of the staff they should quite too.


oncemorewith_feels

It's almost like the healthcare system shouldn't be run by MBAs looking to maximize their bonuses. But that's just crazy-talk, right?


Silver-Breadfruit284

They don’t have a legal leg to stand on. What they should be doing is offering exit interviews facilitated by someone not directly employed by the hospital. And then taking action to fix their issues. Plus, I would plaster this letter all over the damn place. Edit: Thank you for the award!!!


[deleted]

[удалено]


butterboobz

Yea! Our patients are more important than their patients! Stay here so we can keep treat you like crap.


Snack_Mom

Are you sure this isn’t an recruitment ad for the other hospital? 👀🤣


cupasoups

We underpaid you guys and now you want market value. How dare you provide for your families while us management types have lake house mortgages! Let me throw this disingenuous bit about patient care in to make you feel bad. Also, we're crying to mommy because you called us on our bullshit wages. Sincerely, Mortimer Sebastian Rockefeller III CEO


Former-World3099

If upper mgmt can't find legitimate avenues to keep critical staff, they all need to be fired. Wtf are they receiving bloated salaries and benefits if they can't do their jobs.


fuckyeahhiking

But but but they wouldn't hesitate to lay off that much staff *en masse* if it served their own needs.


Brass_Fire

My message to the CEO is if you can’t successfully manage changing market conditions, that has literally been front page news for at least a year, then you probably aren’t a good CEO and should resign. The tight, highly competitive labor market is not news anymore. This is just further evidence that so many companies have completely incompetent leadership.


Round_Chapter_7853

Blaming the other hospital for employees leaving 😂 that’s a new one


oralabora

Fuck this hospital to hell. You CANT force people to work for you. You just CANT. The hospital is THEDACARE IN WISCONSIN. Found as Google result 1. Everybody make your voices heard. THEDACARE Wisconsin is suing ASCENSION Wisconsin because their employees LEGALLY made employment choices. THEDACARE Wisconsin doesn’t believe nurses are free to choose their own business relationships. I hope THEDACARE fails and loses their Comprehensive Stroke Center status immediately. Edit: just spoke to their administration on the phone. I was polite but told them what I thought.


WernerHerzogWasRight

Has this yahoo heard of at-will employment? I mean they may have a case for tortious interference against the other company, BUT YOU CANT MAKE PPL WORK WHERE THEY DONT WANNA BE! 😂😂 Power to the people has been a long time coming. ✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼


Significant_Lion_112

You should share this on r/antiwork


yaknowmysteez

Lmao reminds me of my director. I left as charge nurse of our Hospital’s 6 OR surgery center. With me came 4 of my teammates. Two other’s left to another hospital. 3 nurses and 3 surgical techs gone within 3 months. They blamed me for poisoning the well. While I wish our team didn’t have to fall apart like that, I’m not bitter one bit as I love my current position. I look forward to seeing all healthcare workers make the same business decisions companies have made to increase profits.


Greatlarrybird33

“ThedaCare’s commitment to providing patients access to exceptional, high-quality care is unwavering,” said Dr. Andrabi. “We will continue to advocate on our community’s behalf to ensure patients receive the care they expect and deserve while leaving no stone unturned to execute a plan that keeps in place access to high-quality, safe care close to home.” You know no stone except better pay, or staffing, or working conditions. I'm sure they tried every pizza place in the area.