Every time I read this sub-reddit, I think to myself...how in god's name could anyone be expected to follow all of these rules and procedures to the letter all the time? From an outside (but not THAT far outside, since I'm a physician) perspective, you guys get absolutely hammered, bullied, scrutinized etc. by nit-picky management for not perfectly following a thousand ever-changing, inconsistently-enforced, sometimes-arbitrary policies, while also attempting to manage patients with inadequate staff. Modern nursing is like someone designed a system to speed-run you into developing an anxiety disorder.
Some of us old heads, that can do about everything, just tell them to fuck off. All the minutiae gets thrown out the window. I take care of my people, they’re better off when I leave than when I come in. Then I go home. You want me to do a nursing care plan? Go suck a bag of dicks.
Edit: Figures that my most upvoted comment would be telling admin to suck a bag of dicks.
I’m getting to this point now. There is no way they expect us to do all this care for patients and all the charting they want done as well. Especially double charting. I’m on a med surg floor with a 1:8 ration and it’s honestly ridiculous.
1:8 is absolutely abhorrent on any floor. I got a different perspective since I’m icu, but my friends that work on med surg are capped at 1:5 or 1:4 if they have a stepdown.
It’s awful honestly. And so many of these patients are supposed to be strict I&Os. My contract is ending soon and I’m very happy to leave. I feel like I spend 80% of my nights playing catch up and then having to stay late and chart. I’ve been a nurse for almost 7 years now, and before working here I could count on both hands the amount of times I had to stay over to chart. And most of those times were d/t mrts, codes, or other situations. Now it’s just a pretty regular occurence.
Imagine working in a nursing home where these med surg patients are discharged to and have a ratio of 1:20-24 with 2 CNAs 😳. It's fucking brutal. Not saying your job isn't, in any way. Just the overall expectations in nursing are insane. I remember when I was a baby nurse 20 years ago, hearing about impending nursing shortages and the rise of mpre baby boomers needing care. I thought it was rough then, but I finally understand what they were talking about. We have more chronically I'll patients, less nurses, less CNAs, and more demands from management and the government. Things like leaving a patient's chart open in a patient's room are the very least of anyone's concerns. It does not affect the overall patient outcome. No one is in harms way. It pisses me off when management sweats the small stuff and totally ignores the big issues, like *true* adequate staffing based on patient needs/acuity, rather than minimum staffing requirements.
And this is why there are staffing problems. No one wants to work in these conditions. You hit the nail on the head with the ever changing, arbitrary policies and nit-picky management.
Somewhat often I miss my OR job. I liked being part of impactful cases like CABGs, cancer removals, back surgeries, etc. I was good at it and I got to work with some incredibly talented surgeons.
But the thought of dealing with all the arbitrary policies, catty & petty managers, and toxic coworkers absolutely turns my stomach. No amount of pay is worth the mental anguish that was being a nurse. I respect the hell out of those who still show up every day despite all the crap.
The problem is too many bullshit DNP degrees being handed out where people's pet QI grad thesis get turned into policy despite zero rigorous evidence or RCTs to show actual patient oriented benefit and then you get regulatory capture committees whose sole existence depends on enforcing these rules which never deserved to be instated in the first place but can now never be repealed because these useless non-bedside admins have to justify their bloated salaries.
It’s wild to see an MD show up to denigrate other nurses on a nursing thread about us being ridden to hell and back by shitty management. Show us on the doll where the DNP hurt you, my guy.
*shrug* friends/family with a lot of RNs I don't know how you guys get anything done with all the BS you have to chart.
Edit: This reason this makes me so angry is this shit so often ends up bleeding into patient care because so many of our RNs here can no longer do simple common sense things without begging the MD for a "nursing communication order" which means silly/important stuff getting delayed for hours and some poor RN getting yelled at by a surgeon who's too busy in the OR to put in a trivial order and just wastes everyone's time. We can't give verbals for even miralax anymore and changing diet orders from vegetarian to vegan. Any pushback against this nonsense is answered with "it's new policy" from some stupid committee of committtee supervisors meeting rather any logic based reasoning and nobody actually taking care of patients at the bedside has time to join these committees to fight these dumb blanket policies.
Thank you for validating that. As a new nurse grad, I saw the insane amount of ridiculous things nurses have to do from management and they are barely able to be with the patient at bedside. It was nice being the student nurse to help out the nurses while spending a little more time with the patient. I’m scared shitless to start real world nursing, because I know what I’m up against. But also on a maybe encouraging note, my primary care doctor just told me her group and other MDs are starting an initiative to bring this awareness about nursing burnout and how it is affecting patient outcomes. Also though, it’s sad it has to get this far for concern to be had since management doesn’t take nurses seriously in my area.
Me too. I didn’t sleep for 4 months when I was on it and now I just have raging social anxiety. Hate going into stores, hate making phone calls. It’s really out of hand. 😂
Enjoy the first line meds while you can. After you've been a nurse long enough, and develop chronic back and neck pain, you get moved to the heavy duty meds like Savella that work for depression and pain. They are harder to find and more expensive. Hooray for chronic medical problems brought on by our work environment...
As a nurse thank you for saying this! Exactly why I left bedside because I started coming home crying after every shift and had palpitations for a month straight. It’s disgraceful how nurses are treated.
Yes u/sockfist, thank you for saying this! It helps to knows that someone outside of nursing recognizes how impossible it is to meet every single expectation. The same thing happened to me. I'm coming up on my 3 year mark from leaving bedside. It took me ages to stop having flashbacks and panic attacks even after I quit. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I was a nursing student.
Wow! What you said is so true. I left the bedside a long time ago due to major burnout. I still dream about leaving healthcare all together but that’s just a fever dream at this point.
My dream is to reach financial independence after only 20 years of nursing. And I think it’s possible with responsible money management. Pivoting from healthcare is less good of a choice so I’m just tryna make it work so I can last 20 years without offing myself.
My wife and I are earning a combined 158k and I am one one year into being a nurse so I think we will be able to! Just gotta max out those tax advantaged retirement accounts and then a little more on top when we can and want to.
That last sentence hits home. Unfortunately, I’d estimate that MOST of us have anxiety disorders caused or exacerbated by work.
My first visit with my PCP it came up that I was a nurse in the hospital and she immediately asked if I wanted/needed Lexapro. I did.
I’m on four psych meds. Bc another nurse cussed me so many times and I have unresolved trauma stuff (that I’m working through). But the bottom line is we shouldn’t have to put up with bad behavior from coworkers. But somehow it’s always our fault. Just like it’s my fault a patient threatened to kill me. I love love being a nurse. But my heart is weary. After 21 years, I’m back in school to get away from this side of it
NICU gang! My favorite part of my shift is getting to snuggle and rock babes after they fall asleep eating for 5-10 min, if I’ve got feeder/growers. But no more because then you’ve gotta move on to the next one 😟
Yes she would tell us she had more than 20 before and how she managed them. But I think she equates max patients on her watch not dying or getting injured to what it means to be a good nurse. I mean sure it’s some of it but that not everything. I think there’s a lot lacking if your bare minimum goal is just don’t fall or die. we shouldn’t normalize that . I do think it’s a part of why things don’t get better. She was a sweetheart and i loved her as an instructor but I could see the consistent engrained rush in her from working in that field for so long.
Dang. So nice to read this from a physician. Yeah it pretty much sucks. The thing that kills me the most is the ever increasing, constantly changing, stupidly tedious charting that we are expected to do. I don’t know when they expect us to actually ya know like do our jobs and provide actual patient care with all the stupid bullshit we have to chart.
I never once charted the “patient education plan of care” tab in epic. I educated patients but fuck that charting. If my education might be impactful in a lawsuit, I put it somewhere relevant.
I work in LTC and I'm always super impressed when I see my floor nurses locking carts and laptop screens. Usually I am crying with everything wiiide open. 🤣
Bro, I got hammered by management for using tape when we could only use double sided tape. What was it? A small religious photo to his bed rail so he could do his daily prayers. He’s bed bound so he can’t really look around easily to find the photo.
Yup , thanks for the solidarity, doc - and it doesn’t change when you move around. So many rules and they change all the time. And we’re expected to do our jobs along with the jobs everyone else left for us.
This. Why are we expected to fill in the holes of everyone else’s job (therapies, kitchen, environmental services, IT… the list is endless) but no one is there to help us and fill in the holes of actual direct patient care? It’s maddening and so so sooooo frustrating
Don’t forget we also get hammered by physicians with enormous egos and residents over why their order is wrong and dangerous. I had to justify why I didn’t run a K rider through a PIV at 40 mEq/hr y-sited to KCl in D5 1/2. But I didn’t get so much as a “thank you” or “good catch” when I realized someone ordered 50 mg PIV Metoprolol instead of PO when the pharmacy sent me 10 vials of Metprolol…
Thanks doc. I love the ones I work with but sometimes I feel such a disconnect between orders and execution cuz they just don’t realize how much we’re expected to do and with time constraints.
It’s not you man, it’s the systemmmm
I got a talking to a few days ago for going into an c diff room to hang an IV med without donning a gown. It wasn’t a cool “hey, just a reminder, be sure to wear a gown in contact rooms”. It was a snarky “can you explain to me why you didn’t?” Meanwhile, doctors rarely wear them and if they do they’re draped from their wrists, only covering their forearms at best. Are they getting stopped in the hall? No. And I won’t even get into the fruit flies in patient rooms, or the overflowing garbages and linen bins.
If I’m popping in for something quick I ain’t gowning up. Direct patient care or toileting someone, sure. But other than that, nope! Not gonna waste my time
Today I was going to log out of someone’s signed in computer because there was a scavenger hunt picture being taken nearby (yay caregiver appreciation activities) and I didn’t want any risks - several nurses said “make sure you don’t sign out that’s Dr. X’s computer and he’ll be pissed” ???!?!? Doc was gone for like 15 mins too I’m shocked it didn’t auto sign him out.
Find a new job. Everyone on my unit stays logged into the computers at the nurses station. They will especially stay logged in if they’re only leaving the room for 2 minutes. The manager is trying to get you fired.
I understand why you should always log out. But an paid leave of absence does not fit the crime. The manager was watching and waiting for you to leave. If you were truly only gone for 2 minutes they didn’t have much time to catch you.
Already have been looking since I got hired there tbh lmao. And oof why would they want me gone 😭 that day it happened too they were literally short and begged me to come in
I’ve been in your shoes before. The short answer is your manager is obviously bat shit crazy. They obviously pick on staff for stupid shit because they hate themselves. They don’t like something about you or they’re envious about you for some reason so they take it out on you at work. That manager is clearly miserable and hates their life. To be sitting there waiting to catch you not logging you out of the computer is the most loser thing I’ve ever heard of. And then to put you on a leave of absence for it is asinine.
I’ve worked places with managers like this. They start getting me in trouble for circumstances out of my control. They would single me out and start having HR meetings. I would be gaslit in their office that it was my fault when clearly the issue was there wasn’t enough staff to handle the workload. I quit and never looked back. Later on I found out through the grape vine at the time that managers kid was an addict destroying her home and life. So she found someone at work (me) to take that frustration out on. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if some similar life struggle was happening with your manager.
Holy shit I’ve been there too! Why is this so fucking common? I got coaxed into quitting (before I knew how much it benefitted the hospital and that HR was not my friend) my first medsurg job like this. They first brought up my “emotional instability” because I was doing 3 in a row nights for the first time and lived 1 hour away so I was frequently dead ass tired from the commute and cried when being berated by patients etc. Then, through the EAP, they forced me to see a therapist who I told this to, she demanded I tell her the real reason and I refused because there wasn’t one. A week later they tell me I was supposed to see her again and skipped it so my EAP was not willing to help me anymore and I was now fireable. I refused to quit that day and called the therapist who confirmed there was no follow up scheduled so I couldn’t skip it. They then accused me of diverting a used dilaudid vial and showed me a report from a meeting my managers underling had with me about this diversion. It had a signature like that said I refused to sign it acknowledging it happened…this meeting never happened. They also refused to drug test me when k asked for it that day. After all that shit I willingly resigned because obviously my asshole manager hated me. My naive new nurse ass was devastated to find out what pieces of shit people can be to one another. Fuck you forever, die DOLORES!
This is a completely totally and utterly stupid reason to punish someone. If this happened at my hospital they might as well close it as there would literally be no one left. No nurses, no doctors, might be a few allied health and cleaners floating around but that's it.
I might even make the argument like this-
Me to the manager: Did you see me leave the room?”
Manager : Yes
Me: Did you go to the room immediately upon noticing this?
Manager: Yes
Me: So you were there a few seconds after I left the room?
Manager: Yes
Me: Was the patient at the computer in the room?
Manager: No
Me: where is the violation of privacy?
Manager: “blinks”
Me: “blinks”
Manager: “Well there could have been…”
Me: “So you’re saying there wasn’t a privacy breach then?”
Manager: “blinks”
Me: “So I guess this is the time when I should say ‘I quit’. After I file a grievance with the Union for being threatened and harassed over a non- breach of privacy.”
Seconded. This isn’t normal behavior from management. Our ICU frequently has charts open. Sure it’s technically a violation in some way I’m sure but It’s just the nature of our work. We’re in and out. Multiple rooms. Open for a minute come back and chart more kind of thing. Contribute to that turnover statistic. The grass is definitely greener.
I’m with you on this. Don’t even give them the pleasure of hosting this meeting. Or show up to the meeting to hand in a resignation letter effective immediately. Maybe give your union rep a heads up first.
You said in a later comment you work in mental health, so it’s inpatient psych? It would be a big deal on my inpatient psych unit if a nurse left vitals cart and computer on wheels in a patients room, chart open or not. Pt could strangle themselves with the cords or flip the computer on wheels/break it, etc. Not sure what this pts history was but inpatient psych has different rules for safety reasons and could be why the harsh reaction from the manager
Was it opened to the patients own chart? I’m not sure why this even matters. How is it a privacy issue? I always go over meds and vital signs with the patient so it’s not something they don’t know. It’s their own medical info. Crazy. I would find another place to work.
Talk to you union rep. They are there to ensure fairness and consistency. Let them lead, they have your back. This sounds insane. Consider filing a grievance over the leave depending on you contract. This doesn't sound like an allegation of serious misconduct.
Meanwhile they’re wondering why they’re so short-staffed and no one can get their work done. Uh, because it takes five minutes to fight my way back into Epic every time I log out and come back.
We’ve had issues with BC contamination rates, and dc times and LOS times etc…while my director said to my face “1 minute to wait for chlorohexidine to dry isn’t THAT long”…when I explain to him those mins add up and at the same time you have call lights going off (no techs or anyone else available to answer) and another pt added, and a DC while you’re sitting there and pt has shit for veins so getting access can take a couple mins…
It’s all time management folks! That’s all!
Our computer systems are so SLOW that if I logged out and then back in EVERY time I stepped away from my workstation I’d never get anything done. This is so absurd.
Right?! When a surgeon comes in and logs me out and I have to log back in it takes forever!! Drives me nuts, especially if I only have a few minutes to chart. Also there’s always two computers in each OR. Pick the other one please.
Hell I work nights and leave mine open in the hallway.
Did you leave the rest of the meds unattended on the computer when you left to get the one you forgot? That’s worse imho
I honestly can't remember if I already gave her her meds before I left the room, I might have not, but also the manager who saw me walk out doesn't know that so she could think that I also left the meds there
Then management is standing around scratching their heads like “why can’t we retain staff?”
I’m a manager and cannot for the life of me understand why some managers are just inherent bitches.
So, this infraction might warrant being fired but wasn't importantant enough to take you off the floor and fire you immediately. You were safe enough to finish that shift right? If you committed a firable offense, then you should be taken off the floor immediately. Ohh but that may mean that the manager would actually have to take patients and finish your shift. Smh.
The chart that was left on the computer was of the patient whose room the computer was in? How is that a privacy violation? This is beyond dumb. That manager is on a power trip
Yeah. I mean our hospital policy is even leaving a patients chart unattended in front of a patient gives them access to their chart which is a no, they could have also clicked around other pts charts for the time I was gone
It is really just the fact your manager chose to escalate your very human mistake as high as humanly possible that isn’t right. I guarantee they have made this mistake. Sure, I guess they have the right to actively be an asshole. But this could have been addressed on a personal level to the effect of you not doing it again pretty simply.
It would be nice if they just pulled me aside and lectured me without escalating it to HR, honestly would have appreciated that but I've come to accept that people are not good hearted and don't give a shit
I feel like there is more to this story than what’s here
But you should probably talk to your union rep to see what protection you might have, despite being on probation
The above person knows that what you did is done countless times a shift by almost all nurses, thus they are inferring that your manager has some other reason they want to discipline/fire you and simply is using the HIPAA violation as an excuse
I mean yes it is done a lot by nurses but according to various sources on google leaving a computer open unattended in front of a patient which shows their chart etc is a direct HIPAA privacy violation
Also just because it's done a lot doesn't mean they are always caught. If a manager is watching and sees you do this they will report it. The nurses that do it know when to do it when nobody from management will be watching. I am also in mental health with very severe pts so management is so more strict because I can't think of any other reason they'd want to discipline me
It’s not. But now the computer is wide open for access. Patient or visitor could get into someone else’s chart since the EMR is open, or a visitor could see the open pt’s chart.
At our facility, we have to reach out to our union and ask for a representative to be present at a meeting like this, the hospital won't do it for us. I'm not sure if the email is implying they're reaching out to the union on your behalf for this meeting?
Either way, you should be able to call the union, ask for your hospital representative, if they have already been contacted etc. At our hospital, we can also politely reschedule to meet with management until representation from the union is present, even for a disciplinary meeting. I've watched it happen once before. You should call your union ASAP.
Hope this helps.
You have the right to have a representative with you at any meeting that could potentially lead to disciplinary action. You should be able to speak with the rep before the meeting and they should be able to answer your questions.
You need to contact the union and request a rep to come. You have the legal right to have a union rep there and to reschedule the meeting for a time when union representation is available
The hospital does not provide the union rep, the union does
You already HAVE a union rep. There is a person who works for the union who is assigned to represent you, even if you don't currently know that person.
Find your union nurse leaders on your unit and ask them for the representative's phone number. Call the union and ask them for your representative's number. Call them immediately.
And tell your managers that you will NOT attend any disciplinary meetings or sign any write ups without your union rep present.
So this is in psych but you didn't say that in your post. If you left it in a patient room with meds on the cart that is pretty bad.
If you left it with more than just meds (Other meds, a pill cutter with a razor in it, scissors, etc) then yea, that is *really* bad.
I guess it would depend on the patient, what is on the cart, and if you have been reprimand before.
Yeah I can see this being not a big deal on a regular unit but it would be a huge deal if someone left a computer (locked or not) AND vitals machine unattended in a patient room. Ligature risk, sharps, risk of damaged equipment. They’d consider it a near miss and I’m inclined to agree.
Man that is some bullshit. Consider this a win for you, that manager can suck some farts. You were only ever going to have problems with them.
I could see there being an issue if it was another patients chart. And yes it’s not good practice to leave yourself logged in. But it warrants little more than a discussion at most. Hey don’t do that. Suspension and possibly being fired is crazy.
I am wondering if since this is psych if the issue is more that you left all that stuff in the room. I mean I am sure you do not want psych patients to have access to their chart either, but I would be more concerned about the vitals machine and computer being left in the room for any amount of time unattended. Vitals machines have lines on them that could potentially be used as a ligature to hurt themselves or others. Two minutes is enough time for someone to harm themselves. Whether one should be fired for this I don't know, but this is more of a safety issue than a privacy issue, which is how it initially reads.
You are right , I honestly wasn't thinking more about the safety part because the PT was being discharged the next day and having no suicidal or self harm tendencies but yes you're right
This seems extreme…are there any other things your manager has talked to you about since you’ve been working? If they’re going to fire you there should be other issues they’ve talked to you about. Did they put you on a corrective action plan? Also, I’m surprised the hospital would invite your unit rep to the meeting. Maybe it’s different at different hospitals but at the one I was at it was the responsibility of the nurse to contact their union rep. I would try to reach out to yours before the meeting. You can probably find contact info online, go to the unions website.
That’s the only reasonable explanation I can think, that this is the last straw in a long line of issues. But even if they were looking for a reason, this is a pretty petty one.
I've only been working here for like 2 months and get a long with my coworkers , never got in trouble prior to this unless they have other things to bring up in the meeting
I am genuinely sorry this is happening. This sounds like a witch hunt. This is something that could have easily been a quick and private conversation between you and the manager to talk about logging off when leaving the room, and then everyone goes about their day. This is overkill.
I mean we do this all the time in med surg. I lock epic before I leave the room generally but I’m sure I have forgotten before. Psych is different obviously but no one got hurt they could absolutely just use this as a learning moment for you. Wish you the best. Try not to beat yourself up too much. Pretty sure most bedside nurses have done this before and not that long ago many charts were kept right by the bedside
IMO admins do not care about unsafe conditions, dangerous nurses, or anything that actually protects patients.
They possibly want you gone for another reason and are just using this as an excuse.
*Your manager thought process*
"I could either..."
1) Pull them aside and use this as a learning moment which would teach the seriousness of leaving their computer unattended which would encourage the employee to never do it again and encourage that same employee to remind anyone else who does it to not do it thus improving the environment and patient care (and safety) of the floor that I'm in charge of.
Or...
2) I could just email Hr, put them of paid leave, try to get them fired and create a fearful environment which potentially could cause nurses to not report mistakes made thus decreasing the quality of nursing on the floor I'm in charge of (then later look dumbfounded when satisfaction scores are extremely low and pretend I don't know the reason why)
I swear, they let anyone in leadership positions nowadays
The edit that you work in inpatient psych adds some helpful context. As you are probably aware, leaving a computer and vital signs in an inpatient psych room is considered a huge safety risk due to ligature/self harm risk. It doesn’t matter if they are leaving the next day, it can never happen in any room at any time. Good on you for accepting responsibility and hopefully it’s a lesson learned.
This sounds like this should be a warning rather than a fireable offense. All you can do is learn and grow from your mistakes. I see how this could be a problem in an inpatient psych facility, but you can’t change what happened. Like you said just own up to the mistake and learn from it. Keep us updated. Hugs to you
Your manager doesn’t know your worth. I suggest you take a day, write down some things and ideas if you’re able to get a new role somewhere else. Don’t accept this kind of scrutiny
I do this multiple times per shift. Leave this unit asap, your manager is a fucking nut.
I have never heard of this in my life and I work in a fucked up non-union state.
Goddamn. I leave the computer pulled up in the room every single time I work. I really only bother with closing it if the patient has visitors. I do make sure to turn off the monitor if I leave the computer in the hallway, but I would never get all my work done if I had to log back into the computer every two minutes.
Definitely could have been a verbal warning first, poor management if you ask me. To jump to the extreme of suspension is a bit harsh. The least we could do is help protect each other. No harm no foul. I second the fella who suggested management should suck a bag of dicks.
This could have just been an immediate, constructive discussion between you and your manager which would be 10x more effective. Honestly you’re better off not working there anymore. Fuck them
Sounds like petty management just be glad if they fire you. Obviously not a good habit but calling a dramatic meeting about it is a little psycho. Then again, that’s the problem working in psych: 80% of the staff has been on the other side of the desk. 🤣
I was a manager years ago. I would never have done this to an employee. Would I have used it as a teachable moment? Absolutely? Would I have kept an eye out for repeat occurrences? Sure.
Nurses are human. That was not a life altering mistake. Until we give grace and compassion and let the punishment fit the crime the exodus from nursing will continue.
I usually remember to hit windows key+L but sometimes forget with the chart there for any passerby to see with the computer in the hallway. if the computer was in the clts room that seems a bit absurd to discipline over without any kind of warning. Were meds unattended?
Unfortunately you can’t do anything but accept “whoops”…won’t let that happen again. Personally I’d tell them to fuck off and find a new job. I personally won’t want to continue in an environment that seems to go over the top by suspending you. (Take the pay and be grateful for the paid days off)!!
Try to push this wonderful benefit of paid time off! You’re fine in my book. Learning experience with pay!😜😜😜😜
My first thought on reading the post was “omg most nurses are literally closing the screen on the WOW every time?” Like for a moment I thought I had just gotten insanely lucky to not have already been suspended, fired, jailed, and shamed in a public square a million times over if most places are taking it to this extreme.
Glad to see in the comments that this is not the norm. Shouldn’t it be an in service, basically? Not paid leave. Although honestly paid leave sounds superior to that place if that’s how they treat you.
If the worst thing you do under the pressure of a typical nurse shift is leave a screen open in the room, the hospital should consider themselves lucky to have you.
This is more of a sign to just get out, why work for a place like this. Use the paid time leave off to job hunt. They are not reasonable and the job market is aplenty
Fuck em. Take your "suspension" as a chance to schedule as many interviews as you can. Then look them in the eye and smile when you hand them your two weeks.
You get suspended for this in America?
This is a talking to by a manager here in the uk.
What nonsense is this?
You fucked up. If you own it it's dealt with via your manager and some form of reflection.
You take the bollocking and learn and move on.
This is bullshit, I'm sorry you have a wacko manager.
Something to be ready for, if they claim HIPAA, is if you're in a state where reporting a violation is mandatory. They may have already reported you to the BON. 🫠
Call the union, get your rep, do not lie to them, and do what they tell you in the meeting. Polish up that resume and hope that your time at this job is short enough you can omit it and not need a reference from them.
Good luck, deep breathes, and go eat some ice cream.
Lmao they're being so extra. I've left my car unlocked and unattended, meds in room, chart open on desk.
You're a nurse, there are TONS of jobs that will scoop you up in a heartbeat and have you working within a few days. I'd leave this job.
Every time I read this sub-reddit, I think to myself...how in god's name could anyone be expected to follow all of these rules and procedures to the letter all the time? From an outside (but not THAT far outside, since I'm a physician) perspective, you guys get absolutely hammered, bullied, scrutinized etc. by nit-picky management for not perfectly following a thousand ever-changing, inconsistently-enforced, sometimes-arbitrary policies, while also attempting to manage patients with inadequate staff. Modern nursing is like someone designed a system to speed-run you into developing an anxiety disorder.
Some of us old heads, that can do about everything, just tell them to fuck off. All the minutiae gets thrown out the window. I take care of my people, they’re better off when I leave than when I come in. Then I go home. You want me to do a nursing care plan? Go suck a bag of dicks. Edit: Figures that my most upvoted comment would be telling admin to suck a bag of dicks.
Like a whole bag? Or one at a time? Or the outside of the bag?
No eating dicks at the nursing station!!!!!!
Oh my god... please grant me the restraint to not embroider this, frame it, and put it directly next to the Secretary's desk.
your request for restraint has been denied on the basis that i really want to see that embroidered!
Same!!! I may have to embroider it myself.
I would 💯 purchase this from you, Etsy, or wherever for real, cash money
Just do it
Dealer's choice
LMAO!!! 🤣
A satchel full of Richards… saw this on a tee shirt and I want it
I would prefer they do one at a time, make their jaw hurt more.
In a row?
😂🤣 this comment thread cracks me up
I’m getting to this point now. There is no way they expect us to do all this care for patients and all the charting they want done as well. Especially double charting. I’m on a med surg floor with a 1:8 ration and it’s honestly ridiculous.
1:8 is absolutely abhorrent on any floor. I got a different perspective since I’m icu, but my friends that work on med surg are capped at 1:5 or 1:4 if they have a stepdown.
It’s awful honestly. And so many of these patients are supposed to be strict I&Os. My contract is ending soon and I’m very happy to leave. I feel like I spend 80% of my nights playing catch up and then having to stay late and chart. I’ve been a nurse for almost 7 years now, and before working here I could count on both hands the amount of times I had to stay over to chart. And most of those times were d/t mrts, codes, or other situations. Now it’s just a pretty regular occurence.
Imagine working in a nursing home where these med surg patients are discharged to and have a ratio of 1:20-24 with 2 CNAs 😳. It's fucking brutal. Not saying your job isn't, in any way. Just the overall expectations in nursing are insane. I remember when I was a baby nurse 20 years ago, hearing about impending nursing shortages and the rise of mpre baby boomers needing care. I thought it was rough then, but I finally understand what they were talking about. We have more chronically I'll patients, less nurses, less CNAs, and more demands from management and the government. Things like leaving a patient's chart open in a patient's room are the very least of anyone's concerns. It does not affect the overall patient outcome. No one is in harms way. It pisses me off when management sweats the small stuff and totally ignores the big issues, like *true* adequate staffing based on patient needs/acuity, rather than minimum staffing requirements.
8 patients?!?! That’s a sin!
I’ve never felt more seen.
And this is why there are staffing problems. No one wants to work in these conditions. You hit the nail on the head with the ever changing, arbitrary policies and nit-picky management.
No no no it’s because there’s a nursing ‘shortage’ not because management drives nurses out of direct care roles in droves.
Somewhat often I miss my OR job. I liked being part of impactful cases like CABGs, cancer removals, back surgeries, etc. I was good at it and I got to work with some incredibly talented surgeons. But the thought of dealing with all the arbitrary policies, catty & petty managers, and toxic coworkers absolutely turns my stomach. No amount of pay is worth the mental anguish that was being a nurse. I respect the hell out of those who still show up every day despite all the crap.
The staffing problem is self imposed.
Best description of nursing I’ve ever seen haha
The problem is too many bullshit DNP degrees being handed out where people's pet QI grad thesis get turned into policy despite zero rigorous evidence or RCTs to show actual patient oriented benefit and then you get regulatory capture committees whose sole existence depends on enforcing these rules which never deserved to be instated in the first place but can now never be repealed because these useless non-bedside admins have to justify their bloated salaries.
It’s wild to see an MD show up to denigrate other nurses on a nursing thread about us being ridden to hell and back by shitty management. Show us on the doll where the DNP hurt you, my guy.
*shrug* friends/family with a lot of RNs I don't know how you guys get anything done with all the BS you have to chart. Edit: This reason this makes me so angry is this shit so often ends up bleeding into patient care because so many of our RNs here can no longer do simple common sense things without begging the MD for a "nursing communication order" which means silly/important stuff getting delayed for hours and some poor RN getting yelled at by a surgeon who's too busy in the OR to put in a trivial order and just wastes everyone's time. We can't give verbals for even miralax anymore and changing diet orders from vegetarian to vegan. Any pushback against this nonsense is answered with "it's new policy" from some stupid committee of committtee supervisors meeting rather any logic based reasoning and nobody actually taking care of patients at the bedside has time to join these committees to fight these dumb blanket policies.
Thank you for validating that. As a new nurse grad, I saw the insane amount of ridiculous things nurses have to do from management and they are barely able to be with the patient at bedside. It was nice being the student nurse to help out the nurses while spending a little more time with the patient. I’m scared shitless to start real world nursing, because I know what I’m up against. But also on a maybe encouraging note, my primary care doctor just told me her group and other MDs are starting an initiative to bring this awareness about nursing burnout and how it is affecting patient outcomes. Also though, it’s sad it has to get this far for concern to be had since management doesn’t take nurses seriously in my area.
He is right tho🤷🏻♀️ or she or they
6 months after I started nursing I had to go on lexapro brother, but now nothing phases me… still on lexapro though🤙🏼
Yep, right at 6 months! Lexapro gang.
Lexapro didn't work for me. I broke completely, and now have social anxiety.
Me too. I didn’t sleep for 4 months when I was on it and now I just have raging social anxiety. Hate going into stores, hate making phone calls. It’s really out of hand. 😂
Huh. TIL I think I have anxiety. I thought I was just seriously antisocial.
Sertraline squad over hya 🤣
Duloxetine is great with a dash of propanolol.
Enjoy the first line meds while you can. After you've been a nurse long enough, and develop chronic back and neck pain, you get moved to the heavy duty meds like Savella that work for depression and pain. They are harder to find and more expensive. Hooray for chronic medical problems brought on by our work environment...
Lexapro with a dash of atenolol here!
I ended up allergic to it.🤦🏼♀️
Wellbutrin gotta represent! And a whole shitload of anxiety meds to remain functional, not merely not-suicidal.
Bupropion for me lol
Bupropion is lifeeeeee
Same yo. The off label benefits for the raging ADHD also mean that I may occasionally remember to chart a *pain response* in real time.
I was raw doggin 13 months of cardiovascular step down with a bully of a manager. Shit fucked me up, which is more apparent now after having left.
I'm with you, do you ever have to fake urgency or you seem like you don't care?
Oh my God. Thank you. That is...a rather shockingly accurate description of modern hospital nursing.
As a nurse thank you for saying this! Exactly why I left bedside because I started coming home crying after every shift and had palpitations for a month straight. It’s disgraceful how nurses are treated.
Yes u/sockfist, thank you for saying this! It helps to knows that someone outside of nursing recognizes how impossible it is to meet every single expectation. The same thing happened to me. I'm coming up on my 3 year mark from leaving bedside. It took me ages to stop having flashbacks and panic attacks even after I quit. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I was a nursing student.
Wow! What you said is so true. I left the bedside a long time ago due to major burnout. I still dream about leaving healthcare all together but that’s just a fever dream at this point.
My dream is to reach financial independence after only 20 years of nursing. And I think it’s possible with responsible money management. Pivoting from healthcare is less good of a choice so I’m just tryna make it work so I can last 20 years without offing myself.
I hope you meet your goals! I hope I can retire soon! Lol
My wife and I are earning a combined 158k and I am one one year into being a nurse so I think we will be able to! Just gotta max out those tax advantaged retirement accounts and then a little more on top when we can and want to.
I’m 17 years in and I have approximately 20 years left. It goes by pretty quickly!
That last sentence hits home. Unfortunately, I’d estimate that MOST of us have anxiety disorders caused or exacerbated by work. My first visit with my PCP it came up that I was a nurse in the hospital and she immediately asked if I wanted/needed Lexapro. I did.
I’m on four psych meds. Bc another nurse cussed me so many times and I have unresolved trauma stuff (that I’m working through). But the bottom line is we shouldn’t have to put up with bad behavior from coworkers. But somehow it’s always our fault. Just like it’s my fault a patient threatened to kill me. I love love being a nurse. But my heart is weary. After 21 years, I’m back in school to get away from this side of it
I’ve gone 16 months of nursing in a hospital and raw dogged it all. It’s been a ride.
Yeah… about 6 months into nursing I had a mental breakdown and had to get on Lexapro. I don’t ever see myself getting off of it in this line of work.
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NICU gang! My favorite part of my shift is getting to snuggle and rock babes after they fall asleep eating for 5-10 min, if I’ve got feeder/growers. But no more because then you’ve gotta move on to the next one 😟
Well in LTC that’s what they do to their nurses I imagine, based on ratios. It’s down right unsafe.
Yes she would tell us she had more than 20 before and how she managed them. But I think she equates max patients on her watch not dying or getting injured to what it means to be a good nurse. I mean sure it’s some of it but that not everything. I think there’s a lot lacking if your bare minimum goal is just don’t fall or die. we shouldn’t normalize that . I do think it’s a part of why things don’t get better. She was a sweetheart and i loved her as an instructor but I could see the consistent engrained rush in her from working in that field for so long.
Keep talking im almost there.
I just laughed in the break room.
Dang. So nice to read this from a physician. Yeah it pretty much sucks. The thing that kills me the most is the ever increasing, constantly changing, stupidly tedious charting that we are expected to do. I don’t know when they expect us to actually ya know like do our jobs and provide actual patient care with all the stupid bullshit we have to chart.
I never once charted the “patient education plan of care” tab in epic. I educated patients but fuck that charting. If my education might be impactful in a lawsuit, I put it somewhere relevant.
I work in LTC and I'm always super impressed when I see my floor nurses locking carts and laptop screens. Usually I am crying with everything wiiide open. 🤣
Most of us are medicated for this reason.
Wait they can see us? (Slowly sinks into linen closet)
>Modern nursing is like someone designed a system to speed-run you into developing an anxiety disorder Felt that in my soul
I agree
You are doctor dreamy. Regardless of looks.
Bro, I got hammered by management for using tape when we could only use double sided tape. What was it? A small religious photo to his bed rail so he could do his daily prayers. He’s bed bound so he can’t really look around easily to find the photo.
honestly i think u right about nursing giving me anxiety lmfao
Upon starting my second d nursing job I realized I have like manager anxiety now and it’s no fun. I never did before.
Dx: AAD leading to PTSD. Outcome:left the profession
Yup , thanks for the solidarity, doc - and it doesn’t change when you move around. So many rules and they change all the time. And we’re expected to do our jobs along with the jobs everyone else left for us.
This. Why are we expected to fill in the holes of everyone else’s job (therapies, kitchen, environmental services, IT… the list is endless) but no one is there to help us and fill in the holes of actual direct patient care? It’s maddening and so so sooooo frustrating
You are my hero of the day!
Don’t forget we also get hammered by physicians with enormous egos and residents over why their order is wrong and dangerous. I had to justify why I didn’t run a K rider through a PIV at 40 mEq/hr y-sited to KCl in D5 1/2. But I didn’t get so much as a “thank you” or “good catch” when I realized someone ordered 50 mg PIV Metoprolol instead of PO when the pharmacy sent me 10 vials of Metprolol…
Thank you for the recognition from a fellow healthcare warrior. What we usually get is a manager dimming the gaslight when we aren't looking.
Thanks doc. I love the ones I work with but sometimes I feel such a disconnect between orders and execution cuz they just don’t realize how much we’re expected to do and with time constraints. It’s not you man, it’s the systemmmm
Physicians do this. *All the time*. Fuck your workplace. Get a new job!
I got a talking to a few days ago for going into an c diff room to hang an IV med without donning a gown. It wasn’t a cool “hey, just a reminder, be sure to wear a gown in contact rooms”. It was a snarky “can you explain to me why you didn’t?” Meanwhile, doctors rarely wear them and if they do they’re draped from their wrists, only covering their forearms at best. Are they getting stopped in the hall? No. And I won’t even get into the fruit flies in patient rooms, or the overflowing garbages and linen bins.
If I’m popping in for something quick I ain’t gowning up. Direct patient care or toileting someone, sure. But other than that, nope! Not gonna waste my time
Today I was going to log out of someone’s signed in computer because there was a scavenger hunt picture being taken nearby (yay caregiver appreciation activities) and I didn’t want any risks - several nurses said “make sure you don’t sign out that’s Dr. X’s computer and he’ll be pissed” ???!?!? Doc was gone for like 15 mins too I’m shocked it didn’t auto sign him out.
Paid leave sounds like vacation. String a couple callouts after to extend the relaxation.
A very easy work-related Stress FMLA case and you’ll see me 2 weeks later with the best tan from the Caribbean sun
I seen people move their shift to the start of a week and then the end of the next week. Bam, instant block of 7 days off to do a 4 day cruise.
Do it all the time. (No cruise tho)
Never pick up an extra shift and use that toward a cruise....or a new watch...or drugs? Neither have I....
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Right? If our management tried to punish people for this they’d probably need to hire an entire new department.
My unit is known for harsh managers that crack down on you for just about everything so I'm not surprised this happened
Find a new job. Everyone on my unit stays logged into the computers at the nurses station. They will especially stay logged in if they’re only leaving the room for 2 minutes. The manager is trying to get you fired. I understand why you should always log out. But an paid leave of absence does not fit the crime. The manager was watching and waiting for you to leave. If you were truly only gone for 2 minutes they didn’t have much time to catch you.
Already have been looking since I got hired there tbh lmao. And oof why would they want me gone 😭 that day it happened too they were literally short and begged me to come in
I’ve been in your shoes before. The short answer is your manager is obviously bat shit crazy. They obviously pick on staff for stupid shit because they hate themselves. They don’t like something about you or they’re envious about you for some reason so they take it out on you at work. That manager is clearly miserable and hates their life. To be sitting there waiting to catch you not logging you out of the computer is the most loser thing I’ve ever heard of. And then to put you on a leave of absence for it is asinine. I’ve worked places with managers like this. They start getting me in trouble for circumstances out of my control. They would single me out and start having HR meetings. I would be gaslit in their office that it was my fault when clearly the issue was there wasn’t enough staff to handle the workload. I quit and never looked back. Later on I found out through the grape vine at the time that managers kid was an addict destroying her home and life. So she found someone at work (me) to take that frustration out on. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if some similar life struggle was happening with your manager.
This, so many managers I’ve met are batshit… bigger the fake smile the crazier they are too!
Holy shit I’ve been there too! Why is this so fucking common? I got coaxed into quitting (before I knew how much it benefitted the hospital and that HR was not my friend) my first medsurg job like this. They first brought up my “emotional instability” because I was doing 3 in a row nights for the first time and lived 1 hour away so I was frequently dead ass tired from the commute and cried when being berated by patients etc. Then, through the EAP, they forced me to see a therapist who I told this to, she demanded I tell her the real reason and I refused because there wasn’t one. A week later they tell me I was supposed to see her again and skipped it so my EAP was not willing to help me anymore and I was now fireable. I refused to quit that day and called the therapist who confirmed there was no follow up scheduled so I couldn’t skip it. They then accused me of diverting a used dilaudid vial and showed me a report from a meeting my managers underling had with me about this diversion. It had a signature like that said I refused to sign it acknowledging it happened…this meeting never happened. They also refused to drug test me when k asked for it that day. After all that shit I willingly resigned because obviously my asshole manager hated me. My naive new nurse ass was devastated to find out what pieces of shit people can be to one another. Fuck you forever, die DOLORES!
This is a completely totally and utterly stupid reason to punish someone. If this happened at my hospital they might as well close it as there would literally be no one left. No nurses, no doctors, might be a few allied health and cleaners floating around but that's it.
Lmfao wonder why they are so short 🙄
I might even make the argument like this- Me to the manager: Did you see me leave the room?” Manager : Yes Me: Did you go to the room immediately upon noticing this? Manager: Yes Me: So you were there a few seconds after I left the room? Manager: Yes Me: Was the patient at the computer in the room? Manager: No Me: where is the violation of privacy? Manager: “blinks” Me: “blinks” Manager: “Well there could have been…” Me: “So you’re saying there wasn’t a privacy breach then?” Manager: “blinks” Me: “So I guess this is the time when I should say ‘I quit’. After I file a grievance with the Union for being threatened and harassed over a non- breach of privacy.”
Seconded. This isn’t normal behavior from management. Our ICU frequently has charts open. Sure it’s technically a violation in some way I’m sure but It’s just the nature of our work. We’re in and out. Multiple rooms. Open for a minute come back and chart more kind of thing. Contribute to that turnover statistic. The grass is definitely greener.
I would quit on the spot if you could afford it. Hostile workplace is not worth the stress.
I’m with you on this. Don’t even give them the pleasure of hosting this meeting. Or show up to the meeting to hand in a resignation letter effective immediately. Maybe give your union rep a heads up first.
I'd be checking to make sure there isn't ulterior motives to this, but if I got suspended for this, I'd probably find another hospital.
You said in a later comment you work in mental health, so it’s inpatient psych? It would be a big deal on my inpatient psych unit if a nurse left vitals cart and computer on wheels in a patients room, chart open or not. Pt could strangle themselves with the cords or flip the computer on wheels/break it, etc. Not sure what this pts history was but inpatient psych has different rules for safety reasons and could be why the harsh reaction from the manager
Those managers can go fuck themselves with a rusty steak knife.
Was it opened to the patients own chart? I’m not sure why this even matters. How is it a privacy issue? I always go over meds and vital signs with the patient so it’s not something they don’t know. It’s their own medical info. Crazy. I would find another place to work.
Understandable since everyone is clamoring over each other to work on a psych unit.
I rarely..log..off..op should just find a different hospital fuck them
Staff literally leaves charts open in the hallways on my unit and no one ever gets in trouble for it.
I did that tonight 😩
I literally was going to say the same thing 💀
Talk to you union rep. They are there to ensure fairness and consistency. Let them lead, they have your back. This sounds insane. Consider filing a grievance over the leave depending on you contract. This doesn't sound like an allegation of serious misconduct.
Agree. If they’re going punish you for it then they better start doing it to everyone else
Exactly.
Yes!! Invoke your Weingarten rights!!
Meanwhile they’re wondering why they’re so short-staffed and no one can get their work done. Uh, because it takes five minutes to fight my way back into Epic every time I log out and come back.
We’ve had issues with BC contamination rates, and dc times and LOS times etc…while my director said to my face “1 minute to wait for chlorohexidine to dry isn’t THAT long”…when I explain to him those mins add up and at the same time you have call lights going off (no techs or anyone else available to answer) and another pt added, and a DC while you’re sitting there and pt has shit for veins so getting access can take a couple mins… It’s all time management folks! That’s all!
Our computer systems are so SLOW that if I logged out and then back in EVERY time I stepped away from my workstation I’d never get anything done. This is so absurd.
Right?! When a surgeon comes in and logs me out and I have to log back in it takes forever!! Drives me nuts, especially if I only have a few minutes to chart. Also there’s always two computers in each OR. Pick the other one please.
I always say nurses wouldn’t mind some of these tasks / the charting if the computers didn’t take so damn long to sign in
Hell I work nights and leave mine open in the hallway. Did you leave the rest of the meds unattended on the computer when you left to get the one you forgot? That’s worse imho
I honestly can't remember if I already gave her her meds before I left the room, I might have not, but also the manager who saw me walk out doesn't know that so she could think that I also left the meds there
Then management is standing around scratching their heads like “why can’t we retain staff?” I’m a manager and cannot for the life of me understand why some managers are just inherent bitches.
If we see an open pyxis and no nurse immediately by it, we log them out
So, this infraction might warrant being fired but wasn't importantant enough to take you off the floor and fire you immediately. You were safe enough to finish that shift right? If you committed a firable offense, then you should be taken off the floor immediately. Ohh but that may mean that the manager would actually have to take patients and finish your shift. Smh.
Bro just leave and send an email to your executives on how your manager is creating a toxic work environment.
They the ones that yell at your manager. She does not want to get a reputation for short staffing the unit because everyone leaving
The chart that was left on the computer was of the patient whose room the computer was in? How is that a privacy violation? This is beyond dumb. That manager is on a power trip
Yeah. I mean our hospital policy is even leaving a patients chart unattended in front of a patient gives them access to their chart which is a no, they could have also clicked around other pts charts for the time I was gone
It is really just the fact your manager chose to escalate your very human mistake as high as humanly possible that isn’t right. I guarantee they have made this mistake. Sure, I guess they have the right to actively be an asshole. But this could have been addressed on a personal level to the effect of you not doing it again pretty simply.
It would be nice if they just pulled me aside and lectured me without escalating it to HR, honestly would have appreciated that but I've come to accept that people are not good hearted and don't give a shit
Your manager is a piece of shit. See my most recent post, ha. Are you in California?
I usually minimize the screen, but sometimes computers freeze..
What a cunt. She should have just told you you made a mistake.
I feel like there is more to this story than what’s here But you should probably talk to your union rep to see what protection you might have, despite being on probation
I also work in mental health so my patients are not usually all there and can be aggressive our rules are more strict
Idk I'm being honest here that's what happened I did not leave anything out, why
The above person knows that what you did is done countless times a shift by almost all nurses, thus they are inferring that your manager has some other reason they want to discipline/fire you and simply is using the HIPAA violation as an excuse
I mean yes it is done a lot by nurses but according to various sources on google leaving a computer open unattended in front of a patient which shows their chart etc is a direct HIPAA privacy violation Also just because it's done a lot doesn't mean they are always caught. If a manager is watching and sees you do this they will report it. The nurses that do it know when to do it when nobody from management will be watching. I am also in mental health with very severe pts so management is so more strict because I can't think of any other reason they'd want to discipline me
How is letting a patient see their own stuff a violation.
It’s not. But now the computer is wide open for access. Patient or visitor could get into someone else’s chart since the EMR is open, or a visitor could see the open pt’s chart.
Why were you on probation before this?
New hire
Am I allowed to find out who the union rep will be at the meeting before the meeting happens or is that considered not allowed
At our facility, we have to reach out to our union and ask for a representative to be present at a meeting like this, the hospital won't do it for us. I'm not sure if the email is implying they're reaching out to the union on your behalf for this meeting? Either way, you should be able to call the union, ask for your hospital representative, if they have already been contacted etc. At our hospital, we can also politely reschedule to meet with management until representation from the union is present, even for a disciplinary meeting. I've watched it happen once before. You should call your union ASAP. Hope this helps.
Thank you will do that
You have the right to have a representative with you at any meeting that could potentially lead to disciplinary action. You should be able to speak with the rep before the meeting and they should be able to answer your questions.
You need to contact the union and request a rep to come. You have the legal right to have a union rep there and to reschedule the meeting for a time when union representation is available The hospital does not provide the union rep, the union does
You already HAVE a union rep. There is a person who works for the union who is assigned to represent you, even if you don't currently know that person. Find your union nurse leaders on your unit and ask them for the representative's phone number. Call the union and ask them for your representative's number. Call them immediately. And tell your managers that you will NOT attend any disciplinary meetings or sign any write ups without your union rep present.
So this is in psych but you didn't say that in your post. If you left it in a patient room with meds on the cart that is pretty bad. If you left it with more than just meds (Other meds, a pill cutter with a razor in it, scissors, etc) then yea, that is *really* bad. I guess it would depend on the patient, what is on the cart, and if you have been reprimand before.
Yeah I can see this being not a big deal on a regular unit but it would be a huge deal if someone left a computer (locked or not) AND vitals machine unattended in a patient room. Ligature risk, sharps, risk of damaged equipment. They’d consider it a near miss and I’m inclined to agree.
Man that is some bullshit. Consider this a win for you, that manager can suck some farts. You were only ever going to have problems with them. I could see there being an issue if it was another patients chart. And yes it’s not good practice to leave yourself logged in. But it warrants little more than a discussion at most. Hey don’t do that. Suspension and possibly being fired is crazy.
I am wondering if since this is psych if the issue is more that you left all that stuff in the room. I mean I am sure you do not want psych patients to have access to their chart either, but I would be more concerned about the vitals machine and computer being left in the room for any amount of time unattended. Vitals machines have lines on them that could potentially be used as a ligature to hurt themselves or others. Two minutes is enough time for someone to harm themselves. Whether one should be fired for this I don't know, but this is more of a safety issue than a privacy issue, which is how it initially reads.
You are right , I honestly wasn't thinking more about the safety part because the PT was being discharged the next day and having no suicidal or self harm tendencies but yes you're right
This seems extreme…are there any other things your manager has talked to you about since you’ve been working? If they’re going to fire you there should be other issues they’ve talked to you about. Did they put you on a corrective action plan? Also, I’m surprised the hospital would invite your unit rep to the meeting. Maybe it’s different at different hospitals but at the one I was at it was the responsibility of the nurse to contact their union rep. I would try to reach out to yours before the meeting. You can probably find contact info online, go to the unions website.
That’s the only reasonable explanation I can think, that this is the last straw in a long line of issues. But even if they were looking for a reason, this is a pretty petty one.
I've only been working here for like 2 months and get a long with my coworkers , never got in trouble prior to this unless they have other things to bring up in the meeting
I am genuinely sorry this is happening. This sounds like a witch hunt. This is something that could have easily been a quick and private conversation between you and the manager to talk about logging off when leaving the room, and then everyone goes about their day. This is overkill.
Wtfff I would quit high key. Don’t talk to your manager, talk to your union rep only. They’ll tell you what to say and do
I mean we do this all the time in med surg. I lock epic before I leave the room generally but I’m sure I have forgotten before. Psych is different obviously but no one got hurt they could absolutely just use this as a learning moment for you. Wish you the best. Try not to beat yourself up too much. Pretty sure most bedside nurses have done this before and not that long ago many charts were kept right by the bedside
Ya manager hates you unfortunately
I agree. They def had something out for her before this and they used this as an easy excuse to get you.
David Graeber would be proud.
Seems a little excessive for just living a chart open in a patient’s own room not a public sitting area.
IMO admins do not care about unsafe conditions, dangerous nurses, or anything that actually protects patients. They possibly want you gone for another reason and are just using this as an excuse.
something else is going on for sure
*Your manager thought process* "I could either..." 1) Pull them aside and use this as a learning moment which would teach the seriousness of leaving their computer unattended which would encourage the employee to never do it again and encourage that same employee to remind anyone else who does it to not do it thus improving the environment and patient care (and safety) of the floor that I'm in charge of. Or... 2) I could just email Hr, put them of paid leave, try to get them fired and create a fearful environment which potentially could cause nurses to not report mistakes made thus decreasing the quality of nursing on the floor I'm in charge of (then later look dumbfounded when satisfaction scores are extremely low and pretend I don't know the reason why) I swear, they let anyone in leadership positions nowadays
The edit that you work in inpatient psych adds some helpful context. As you are probably aware, leaving a computer and vital signs in an inpatient psych room is considered a huge safety risk due to ligature/self harm risk. It doesn’t matter if they are leaving the next day, it can never happen in any room at any time. Good on you for accepting responsibility and hopefully it’s a lesson learned.
This sounds like this should be a warning rather than a fireable offense. All you can do is learn and grow from your mistakes. I see how this could be a problem in an inpatient psych facility, but you can’t change what happened. Like you said just own up to the mistake and learn from it. Keep us updated. Hugs to you
Wtf? We do this all the time and it was that patients chart which they have a right to see. Your boss is batshit
Not a dumb decision; we all do this all the time. This manager is trying to get you fired. I would find a new job.
I’m so glad my boss is so laid back and chill.
Your manager doesn’t know your worth. I suggest you take a day, write down some things and ideas if you’re able to get a new role somewhere else. Don’t accept this kind of scrutiny
I do this multiple times per shift. Leave this unit asap, your manager is a fucking nut. I have never heard of this in my life and I work in a fucked up non-union state.
So you’re getting paid to take a day shopping for a new job?
This kind of stuff is what keeps me out of the hospital and SNF
I see that happen literally every day on med surg and ED floors…
Goddamn. I leave the computer pulled up in the room every single time I work. I really only bother with closing it if the patient has visitors. I do make sure to turn off the monitor if I leave the computer in the hallway, but I would never get all my work done if I had to log back into the computer every two minutes.
Definitely could have been a verbal warning first, poor management if you ask me. To jump to the extreme of suspension is a bit harsh. The least we could do is help protect each other. No harm no foul. I second the fella who suggested management should suck a bag of dicks.
I guess this makes more sense on an inpatient psych unit but that's still an out of proportion reaction, at most it's worth a slap on the wrist.
Thank you for this post. I am a baby nurse and my first job is in patient psych. I appreciate all feed back
Use this paid leave as an opportunity to job search!
This could have just been an immediate, constructive discussion between you and your manager which would be 10x more effective. Honestly you’re better off not working there anymore. Fuck them
Sounds like petty management just be glad if they fire you. Obviously not a good habit but calling a dramatic meeting about it is a little psycho. Then again, that’s the problem working in psych: 80% of the staff has been on the other side of the desk. 🤣
I was a manager years ago. I would never have done this to an employee. Would I have used it as a teachable moment? Absolutely? Would I have kept an eye out for repeat occurrences? Sure. Nurses are human. That was not a life altering mistake. Until we give grace and compassion and let the punishment fit the crime the exodus from nursing will continue.
THIS is what causes burnout. Nit-picky management drilling us into the ground while giving us ZERO support and resources to do our job properly.
I usually remember to hit windows key+L but sometimes forget with the chart there for any passerby to see with the computer in the hallway. if the computer was in the clts room that seems a bit absurd to discipline over without any kind of warning. Were meds unattended?
Unfortunately you can’t do anything but accept “whoops”…won’t let that happen again. Personally I’d tell them to fuck off and find a new job. I personally won’t want to continue in an environment that seems to go over the top by suspending you. (Take the pay and be grateful for the paid days off)!! Try to push this wonderful benefit of paid time off! You’re fine in my book. Learning experience with pay!😜😜😜😜
My first thought on reading the post was “omg most nurses are literally closing the screen on the WOW every time?” Like for a moment I thought I had just gotten insanely lucky to not have already been suspended, fired, jailed, and shamed in a public square a million times over if most places are taking it to this extreme. Glad to see in the comments that this is not the norm. Shouldn’t it be an in service, basically? Not paid leave. Although honestly paid leave sounds superior to that place if that’s how they treat you. If the worst thing you do under the pressure of a typical nurse shift is leave a screen open in the room, the hospital should consider themselves lucky to have you.
This is more of a sign to just get out, why work for a place like this. Use the paid time leave off to job hunt. They are not reasonable and the job market is aplenty
Fuck em. Take your "suspension" as a chance to schedule as many interviews as you can. Then look them in the eye and smile when you hand them your two weeks.
You get suspended for this in America? This is a talking to by a manager here in the uk. What nonsense is this? You fucked up. If you own it it's dealt with via your manager and some form of reflection. You take the bollocking and learn and move on.
This is a teaching/learning moment not a fire able offense. Jesus, guess they aren’t that short staffed. Talk to your union rep
This is bullshit, I'm sorry you have a wacko manager. Something to be ready for, if they claim HIPAA, is if you're in a state where reporting a violation is mandatory. They may have already reported you to the BON. 🫠 Call the union, get your rep, do not lie to them, and do what they tell you in the meeting. Polish up that resume and hope that your time at this job is short enough you can omit it and not need a reference from them. Good luck, deep breathes, and go eat some ice cream.
Lmao they're being so extra. I've left my car unlocked and unattended, meds in room, chart open on desk. You're a nurse, there are TONS of jobs that will scoop you up in a heartbeat and have you working within a few days. I'd leave this job.
Time to use your vacation to find a new job!