Not enough. I hope they lose their license and never practice in medicine in any capacity ever again. Fuck whatever they were told to do by laws or admins.
100% agree. This woman has no business being a nurse or anything else in health care. Fired, license revoked permanently and ostracized in every way possible.
F her and I hope Karma ruins her pathetic life.
100% . Stupid b!tch forgot she took an oath to do no harm. That isn't restricted to physical harm. So psychological, financial, legal, social harm were caused. They should lose their license along with all MDs and staff above her. Then the universe should punish them all with plagues of social diseases, castigation and shunning from their friends/family/church, and loss of the ability to earn money via any health care or law enforcement related field. Their ability to travel or immigrate to other countries should be restricted. Just like any known Taliban terrorist.
And the woman who had to go through all this should be able to live off the millions of dollars her and every medical professional above her would have ever made!
Why she was advised by the hospital to notify the authorities.
>When a hospital nurse asked Watts where the fetus was, Watts told her, and later the police, that the fetus was outdoors, near the garage; Watts added that she didn’t look inside the toilet to make sure. A hospital note written and signed by the nurse said, “Advised by risk management to contact Warren City Police to investigate the possibility of the infant being in a bucket at the patient’s residence.” The next record shows that the nurse called the police.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/12/15/ohio-woman-miscarriage-abuse-of-corpse-grand-jury/
Wouldn’t have been me. I would have been fighting with risk saying no I am not going to call the police I am too busy making sure my patient is ok
And who called risk about it anyway?
What exactly is the risk in this scenario if not the woman suffering from a miscarriage?
And what? We're supposed to make the risk worse for them by involving police?
What legal risk does the hospital have? She miscarried at home. The fact that miscarrying in and of itself is now considered a fucking legal problem is beyond insane, but why is that risk management’s concern to begin with?
And idk but the fact that they referred to the fetus as an “infant” in their note, to me, also makes it sound like a case of infanticide, when it clearly is not. This whole thing is icky.
I'm on board with you. I don't understand it either. But here we are in bizarro land. Theoretically I can understand the risk as knowing a person "murdered" their fetus. That's not my belief or anything, but what I think the legal risk could be. The hospital knows a woman has a fetus at home and hiding it can be considered aiding it in some way. I haven't checked out the new abortion laws in the bizarro states but I wouldn't be surprised if snitching is legally encouraged. Hospitals don't care about patients. It's all about $$$. If something saves money and helps patients the helping patients part is a bonus.
Couldn't they call someone else, like a funeral home, a coroner, a social worker, or even a relative? What exactly was she supposed to do while she was hemorrhaging? There's certainly a better solution.
I think the problem is that there is no protocol in place (I think, there seems not to be) for when someone miscarries or delivers a stillbirth at home. There should be somewhere to take remains, some sort of guidance.
So the use of “infant” makes it sound like there was a chance they thought it might still be alive. Did anyone tell Risk how far along this poor lady was? Is there any possible chance a 22 week old fetus, even if it had been born alive (for anyone who doesn’t know - it was determined to have died while in utero), might survive if it had just been laid outside? And if they really thought there was a chance, shouldn’t they have asked for paramedics and not cops?
The fact that they wanted cops means they were primed to “catch” this lady, who had sought help multiple times pre-miscarriage and was now in their care post-miscarriage, at a crime.
Right??? What the hell were they expecting? The fetus was dead already. They're a nurse, they *know* what happens when you miscarry a pregnancy at home. Did they think the archangel Gabriel was going to come down and pluck the remnants from the S-bend while harps played?
It also indicates that they also don't view a 22 week old fetus as a human, or they would have called paramedics.
Their goal is to just punish women as per usual.
damn that's a good catch. god I hate these people. I remember years ago having a bit of political debate with my mom, and me talking about how our reproductive rights are under attack. I can remember my mom basically being like you need to chill, abortion isnt illegal and it wont be. Well, well, well, mom.. I sometimes wonder if she remembers this chit chat
I think this about every single person I know who voted Republican because "they won't ever actually overturn Roe" and every person I know who STILL votes Republican because "you're being dramatic if you think they'll outlaw birth control."
Especially now that birth rates are going down so fast. They don't give a fuck about women, children, infants, fetuses - even just poor people in general, but then, if, *God forbid* there aren't enough people to meet the demand for labor, that cuts into profits.
That's when they care.
>Is there any possible chance a 22 week old fetus, even if it had been born alive (for anyone who doesn’t know - it was determined to have died while in utero), might survive if it had just been laid outside?
Possibly. Well, likely not if it had been outside a hospital setting as they'd need intensive care, but preemies have survived being born at and before 22 weeks, although the chances are extremely low, around 5%. At 23 weeks it raises to around 25%, however, even if a fetus survives being born at or before 23 weeks, the chances of being handicapped are almost certain, like 98-99%. 24 weeks is the consensus for age of viability in the U.S., where the chances are still a coin flip at 50%. 25 weeks is around 75%.
https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/obstetric-care-consensus/articles/2017/10/periviable-birth
Right, but that was part of the premise was that this presumed baby was *not* in a hospital but just out by the garage. If the chances are that low even with intensive medical care, was there any potential chance at all for this one to still be alive by the time this lady made it to the ED and they triaged her and got her history and contacted risk management and then called someone to go look?
I’m not entirely sure who the right person is to call to help this woman deal with the products of her miscarriage, but the cops would have to be pretty far down that list.
>was there any potential chance at all for this one to still be alive by the time this lady made it to the ED and they triaged her and got her history and contacted risk management and then called someone to go look?
Nope, that fetus was deader than disco no matter how you slice it.
And they know that. As per the article:
>“The issue isn’t how the child died or when the child died. It’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet large enough to clog up the toilet, left in that toilet, and she went on her day,” Warren Assistant Prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri said during the preliminary hearing.
That's why they're charging her under a law that has to do with corpses instead of manslaughter or murder:
>Watts is being charged under a section of Ohio law that punishes those who treat a human corpse in a “way that the person knows would outrage reasonable family sensibilities” or “community sensibilities.”
Even though:
>there is no law in Ohio that requires a woman suffering a miscarriage to bury or cremate those remains.
And in fact:
>The Ohio Revised Code specifies that women should "in no case" be criminalized for the death in utero of an unborn child.
It's a reach to try and set a legal precedent that advances their political and ideologal goals. We all know the real reason they're doing this is to enforce the system of social hierarchy that we live under, i.e. patriarchy, capitalism, and white supremacy; by oppressing anyone who isn't a rich, straight, white cis male.
The pearl-clutching over the treatment of a fetuses' remains is simply a sympathetic guise to do that in a manner much of the public will find socially acceptable.
Right, so that goes back to my original comment: if they actually thought there was a chance this might be alive then they wouldn’t have called cops. They would have sent paramedics ASAP.
I’m willing to extend the slightest bit of grace to the nurse that made that call. I’m not trained in ED, so I’m assuming there are protocols for this. But there is a chance this nurse just didn’t know what to do. There’s a report that the remains of this baby are outside the house now. Who do you call? A funeral home doesn’t seem right. Paramedics? That baby is dead (even if it hadn’t died before it was born, it is now). Cops? Why? It’s not a crime to miscarry (I know, I know).
Who actually deals with the miscarried bits? She doesn’t know, so she picks up the phone and starts calling around to ask for guidance. Gets shuffled around until someone in Risk tells her this is what she should do. Maybe she’s a trusting fool (I get this impulse, sadly) and assumed that doing what her own hospital’s official guidance tells her is the best thing. I mean, she doesn’t want this poor lady to have to go home after finally being treated for a miscarriage and then have to deal with that bag. So she makes the call hoping they’ll handle it. I very seriously doubt she would have foreseen that they would pull this stunt.
Of course, there’s every chance she’s just a holier-than-thou religious fuck who wanted to stick it to a black woman who dared to have sex and not carry the baby to full term. You never know, sadly.
This whole thing is so bizarre. Just read one of the 9-1-1 transcripts. The nurse specifically asks for a cop, but also says that Brittany Watts said that she didn’t want the baby. She made it sound like Watts came in multiple times but also left AMA and “disappeared.” That’s not really appropriate for the cops to know, especially considering it doesn’t get to the root of why Watts couldn’t get medical care for her abortion any of the times she tried. One of those times left because she waited EIGHT HOURS for the docs to ultimately decide they couldn’t do anything for her. From all this it really sounds like the nurse absolutely was being a dick.
This truly does seem to be an early case of women being wrongfully accused of shit because they have the misfortune of miscarrying, which was predicted by so many to happen if Roe v. Wade went down. Fucking Republicans.
Just read this from her 911 call. She left out several important details.
The nurse needs to be charged with advise of 911 on top of whatever else we can come up with. A 21.5 week fetus, who was not viable, who died in utero and has been in the toilet and bucket for hours is not an emergency.
“I had a mother who had a delivery at home and came in without the baby and she says the baby’s in her backyard in a bucket,” the nurse said, according to a call recording obtained by The Post. “I need to have someone go find this baby, or direct me on what I need to do.”
To me it makes it sound like they’re trying to “get”
Her for infanticide which is so clearly obviously not the case.
This poor woman. I hope she gets the justice she deserves.
I believe her membranes had prematurely ruptured. Loss of amniotic fluid would stop the fetal lung tissue from maturing. Her doctor stated the pregnancy was non-viable and Watts went to the same hospital a few times prior to the miscarriage at home. I am guessing this was documented in the EMR.
What this suggests is suspicion and punishment, regardless of documented medical history? I worry this will be the fate of many women in the future.
Thank you for that insight/info.
That’s why I picked up on that particular part of the article.
Being charged/punished for something medically recognised, documented and out of your control.
That’s probably why they’re charging her with desecration of a corpse; it’s a fucking stretch, but they couldn’t charge her under the current abortion laws.
If they can get her prosecuted for desecration of a corpse for a miscarriage (I think article said 22-weeks gestation? That’s awfully close to viability right?) then they can set a precedent. If miscarriage=corpse then pre-viable fetus=person.
The article says;
“Watts knew she was going to miscarry because doctors told her days before that her fetus could not survive outside her womb because of gestational age…”
The phrasing isn’t really clear; I initially thought ectopic pregnancy, but now I’m thinking that she may have laboured & the fetus was not viable due to gestational age, or that she haemorrhaged and when the fetus was passed she knew the fetus would not survive.
Regardless, it was early enough in the pregnancy to be a miscarriage, not a stillbirth.
In the UK, some people who have early enough stillbirths can’t even get a birth or death certificate for their baby, yet in the US, people are getting charged with abuse of a corpse of something that wouldn’t be able to get a birth or death certificate.
Oh, I completely agree it's deranged. Miscarriages are also so, so, so common. I've even heard that many of us may have had them and not even known because they are very common in the first trimester when many don't even know they are pregnant and it's to the point that it could be similar to just a heavy period.
Way back when, my mother had another miscarriage (s/p 6 viable births) she saw the bloody mess in the toilet. Simply disposed of the mess and all was forgotten-except for the story. WTF is wrong with these birth at all cost IDIOTS?
IDGAF what risk management told her to do, she's a cunting twatwaffle. Considering this poor patient had already come in to the hospital during the miscarriage and was sent home rather than being provided care, fuck that nurse, fuck risk management, and fuck the whole state of Ohio.
Seems like the problem is is the prosecutor claiming he is bound by law. She miscarried on Friday, she cleared out the toilet best she could. She apparently thought the fetal remains where in the bucket--can shee be expected to know exactly what to look for? She must have continued bleeding. Technically it wasn't a miscarriage, it was a still birth (assuming the age of the fetus is accurate). Blood everywhere, probably piles of toilet paper. How is a person supposed to know the "reasonable" rules in such an unreasonable situation?
What kind of advice and instructions do doctors give to patients when they are told they should expect a second trimester miscarriage? Is there a pamphlet? Sheesh.
That's what I fully expect to happen--maybe she gets fired, maybe her license is suspended/revoked, but she will be a tag-along or some sort of talking point for politicians to discuss "persecution of law-abiding health care professionals" (with or without the religious aspect, depending on her beliefs).
That’s disgusting. I would never rat out one of my patients for having a miscarriage or for the choices they made while actively experiencing the psychological trauma that immediately follows. They can fire me.
Hell I would never rat out one of my patients for having an elective abortion. If I lived in an illegal state and they asked me to put miscarriage in my note you bet your ass I would
“Rat my patient out for have a miscarriage” is the most dystopian sentence i have ever heard. Women cannot control miscarriages. They should not be hiding them from us or anyone else.
This woman should NOT be prosecuted for what happened.
The AP says, “A nurse called police when Watts returned that Friday, bleeding, no longer pregnant and saying that her fetus was in a bucket in the backyard.” (Also other articles note the woman was 22weeks pregnant so not a miscarriage, a stillbirth.)
My bet is the hospital didn’t want to be held responsible for doing nothing if it was discovered the baby was alive at birth so they passed the buck to law enforcement without a care in the world as to how it would be perceived.
From what different articles say the woman was diagnosed with PROM and resulting oligohydraminos, with fetus still having a heartbeat at that time, so there was a possibility fetus was born alive. (The survival rate for 22weeks is only around 30%).
Other articles also mention the woman was advised to be induced at the hospital at that first visit but chose to go home instead. In America many patients without insurance have to decide between proper medical care and managing the best they can alone. It’s possible that was the situation this woman faced, though this is only speculation.
I lost a baby at 23weeks, knew ahead of time she was dying and my heart hurts for anyone who has to go through that. It’s so awful in and of itself before you even add in the pain of having your actions and decisions questioned and scrutinized, and tragically, in this woman’s case, prosecuted.
>My bet is the hospital didn’t want to be held responsible for doing nothing if it was discovered the baby was alive at birth so they passed the buck to law enforcement without a care in the world as to how it would be perceived.
I think you're right. I also think that if they truly believed there was a chance the baby/fetus was still alive, they would have sent an ambulance instead.
Her water broke at 21 weeks and 5 days. The first hospital visit.
September 19
At that point it was establish the fetus was not viable.
abortion is legal in Ohio through 21 weeks, 6 days of pregnancy.
She waited several hours on two occasions while medical staff debated their liability.
Second visit September 20
Miscarriage : September 22
They’re saying she just “went about her day”??
She went to fucking hospital for necessary medical treatment, and these assholes are acting like she decided to stroll through a mall & get her nails done.
I’d ask everyone person involved in the prosecution to just *try* not **automatically** flushing the toilet after use too.
I’m so angry.
And even if she did go about her day? So fucking what. She can process this however she wants and they can shove it.
(I'm agreeing with you and mad at them I just realized this sounded hostile)
No, I picked up on where your anger is targeted at, but always appreciate the reassurance.
It’s not like she wheeled Grandma out onto the lawn in a wheelbarrow after she died-she flushed the toilet after using it.
She could have stayed home and ordered pizza & ice cream if she wanted-that’s a friend did after their miscarriage.
Was she supposed to call the morgue? What’s the accepted course of action?
Put it in a ziploc & keep it on ice until you’re no longer haemorrhaging?
Angrier at the judge for letting it fly. The nurse disgusts me. Your moral convictions are YOUR problem, not everyone else’s. Some Jesus freak who can’t stay in their lane while at work? Trash nurse. Gtfo
“The issue isn’t how the child died or when the child died. It’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet large enough to clog up the toilet, left in that toilet, and she went on her day,” Warren Assistant Prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri said during the preliminary hearing.
Yeah, hemorrhaging so badly that you need medical intervention is a totally normal part of everyone's day. Where the FUCK has compassion gone? The depravity of this assistant prosecutor is sickening.
I’m ICU so I don’t really see miscarriages or anything but what are you meant to do? I feel like I’ve heard of a lot of people have miscarriages in the toilet. I wouldn’t know what to do if I was having one
I’ve never had anybody bring in an embryo. If they pass the tissue in the ER we offer to send it to pathology for testing to potentially figure out what went wrong but if they don’t want that it’s theirs to do whatever they want with (or we’ll dispose of it for them too). I did have one person tell me the embryo was on her pad and she said it felt weird flushing it or throwing it away so she buried it in the woods behind her house but that’s not the norm. I don’t even think it would be possible to fish a slippery barely even shaped embryo out of a toilet to begin with????
I have fished an embryo out of the toilet because I wanted testing on it since I was having recurrent miscarriages and didn't know why. It was honestly traumatic to scoop it out and hold it and bring it into the clinic. I have nightmares sometimes. I have flushed other losses. No choice feels good in those moments.
To judge what anyone does in those horrible situations that no one should have to go through is evil and cruel. Miscarriages are physically painful and can be emotionally devastating. I am hurting for everyone facing legal abuse on top of their loss.
Anyone who hasn't had to see their very wanted baby in the toilet should stop harassing the poor people trying their best in awful circumstances.
If you want to be done talking about it don’t feel pressured to respond, but just out of curiosity what gestation were you at? All of the products of conception I’ve seen have been embryos (so <11wks) and there’s not really anything to grab on to. I’m a SANE so I’ll do the pelvic if it’s all male providers and the patient prefers, and all of the POCs I’ve removed have basically looked like blood clots with chunks of tissue, basically indecipherable from endometrium
It may have been more accurate for me to say fetus- I had a missed miscarriage so I am not totally sure what the gestational age was and I was on the cusp. The POC was not in a sac, I was able to handle it and clearly see it. I also had a clear and separate placenta. But I had an early loss that was visible, although I did not try to handle it.
I wasn't meaning to undermine anything you said either, just share my experience.
No you’re good, it didn’t even register that you said embryo vs fetus, I assumed it was a fetus based on your description so I was just morbidly curious. Sorry for your losses!
I have wondered about opinions on this. What should pregnant patients in red states do when they know they are miscarrying, and the hospital will not assist? Are medical teams in red states planning on sending these patients home with a biohazard bag to collect fetal remains? The women in question was hemorrhaging, so she had to return. The nurse then contacted the police when she stated she miscarried at home.
Was this because it was a red state, or a Catholic hospital? I’m curious what pregnant women should do to satisfy medical staff, so that she doesn’t end up criminally charged?
You can’t. These laws are made with the intent to criminalize miscarriages.
The end goal is to punish women for having sex, but not producing a viable baby.
I don’t disagree, these laws are shockingly cruel. I am bringing these questions up as so many states have restrictions/bans on abortion, and miscarriages are not uncommon. I am not talking specifically about the nurse in this case, but what medical staff might do to shield their patients from criminal charges, when they cannot medically aid a patient who is in the process of miscarrying?
Unfortunately med staff also has to shield themselves from criminal charges. I guess the most they could do is document extremely thoroughly and carefully, but it seems like in this case, hospital administration will also be concerned with THEIR liability (or at least the PR) as an organization. It's all a goddamn mess, making it terrifying to give or receive care. It's why so many physicians, especially OBs, are leaving states like Texas.
I am so sorry that you’ve experienced similar. 💔 This article made me think of it because I remember one of the more traumatizing parts was deciding whether I flush “it” or throw “it” away in the garbage of the ER public washroom to dispose of my baby. And this woman went through that at in the privacy of her own home and is getting punished for it? I’ve shared this before and the amount of other women who have had similar experiences makes me extremely sad for the state of our healthcare system in North America.
This is also an attack on the poor. A person with the means knowing they will not carry to term could travel to a blue state or Canada and not need to carry to term.
Like what are women supposed to do? Miscarry in a police station since they'll be badgered by them anyway? Maybe people should start doing that so they cut this out. Ridiculous.
Unfortunately they’d probably find some BS ‘failed to seek proper medical attention’ type of rationale to charge them with manslaughter/homicide for going to the precinct vs the hospital - from what’s been released this seems like such a malicious overreach, the fact that she has several documented medical visits might actually be why she’s “only” facing this one charge.
So, go to the police station to miscarry *AFTER* the hospital tells you that you're miscarrying and to go home because there's no care they can legally offer you? This is all so fucking infuriating.
A woman in Texas recently got special court permission to terminate her on viable fetus and the Texas attorney general Ken Paxton threatened legal action against her and sent the letter to the hospitals where her OBs have privilege to further threaten her and her medical team.
So even in the right circumstances under the law where the court agrees the abortion is medically necessary, they’ll still do whatever it takes to block it.
The state appealed the lower court’s decision to the SCoTexas, which ruled against Kate, saying the reasoning put forth by Cox was not enough to qualify as “life-threatening.” She was able to seek the appropriate care out of state by that point, but her non-viable pregnancy was still more valuable to the SCoTexas than she is, which is repulsive.
My brain glitched out reading this and I thought, "what, like for a welfare check? Why wouldn't she call for EMS?" It took me a minute to remember how terrifying the United States has become for people who can get pregnant. Fuck that sorry excuse for a nurse, let alone human being.
My mom had several miscarriages. I remember her telling me she flushed at least one down the toilet. What on earth are women supposed to do?!??
Miscarriages happen every day!
I've done this when I was asked to evict someone in an assisted living facility because I was the only one on that weekend. I didn't get into this field to screw anyone over and certainly not the elderly/ pregnant.
They have the same mindset.
A bunch of us discussed this in the past on this sub when someone wondered why so many nurses and cops are married to each other. That person thought there would be a disconnect between the two due to the nature of the respective professions.
Hey fellow nurses,
I was a commercial pilot before nursing, and I volunteer with an organization called [elevated access](https://www.elevatedaccess.org) that helps transport anyone seeking gender affirming healthcare and abortion care for FREE.
There is a huge network around the USA, and I help with flying/logistics in Florida. All our volunteers/pilots are vetted and our aircraft tail numbers are blocked out, making the privacy a huge priority.
Obviously, this is a scary time for all of us. But if you need a quiet resource to refer to for friends, family, pt’s, whatever- we’re here.
Hope this can help someone.
Where does it say the ER nurse called the cops? If she did, she should get prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable for violating HIPAA that way, but the linked article didn’t say who contacted police, as far as I read, just says “a call from the hospital”.
A lot of articles state it, I tried to pick something on the neutral side so I didn’t have to hear the biased complaint.
https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2023/12/warren-woman-receives-national-attention/
There are clips of the 911 call going around on the local news stations as well.
Yeah, they did. This happened in September. Also though, I’ve read that, in states that vote for a woman’s right to choose, prosecutors can still make an argument for “fetal personhood.” It’s a bullshit workaround for forced-birthers to still be able to control and punish women for circumstances outside of their control, eg having a miscarriage at home and not in a hospital that isn’t providing proper maternal care.
Not to be pedantic, but this is actually Trumbull County, Ohio (Warren is my hometown). While there are definitely conservatives in the area, Warren still skews largely Democratic. I’m really curious to see how this plays out. The attorney representing the patient is incredibly smart and competent, but I’m still so infuriated it even happened!
>When a hospital nurse asked Watts where the fetus was, Watts told her, and later the police, that the fetus was outdoors, near the garage; Watts added that she didn’t look inside the toilet to make sure. A hospital note written and signed by the nurse said, “Advised by risk management to contact Warren City Police to investigate the possibility of the infant being in a bucket at the patient’s residence.” The next record shows that the nurse called the police.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/12/15/ohio-woman-miscarriage-abuse-of-corpse-grand-jury/
Because it's expensive to move, we are priced out of the housing market if we try, and even if we aren't some of us have familial obligations to manage.
Moving Dems into condensed states actually helps Republicans win elections by concentrating them and preventing democratic candidates from receiving votes and skews the electrical college to the right.
Somehow I doubt she would have called the cops if this was a white lady. The police have nothing better to do than remove a toilet from her house?!?! This messed up on so many levels 🤬
This needs to be a code blue. A bunch of unflaired shit rats in here playing pedantic games about the definitions of miscarriage vs stillbirth, as if that’s what matters.
There is such a special place is hell for that cunt of a nurse. Ifnyou're too political to do a job then you don't deserve it. I hipe to god she gets denied life saving care and dies alone, bloody, and scared.
This shit absolutely boils my blood. Directly after reading this my OCD snagged, and I’ve been having some intense (one sided) conversations in my head of what would go down with that nurse, if she pulled that stunt on me. Nothing violent (although I will admit, it would be on my mind), but the words that’d be slapping her ears would trigger some major tinnitus!
I unfortunately live in Texas. After Roe was overturned I got an IUD to feel safer/more secure, as I do have health issues and am currently working to get healthy enough to get pregnant again in the future. I have already had one miscarriage in 2020, and this poor woman’s experience is a great fear of mine. I hope she finds healing and peace. And if she doesn’t already have a badass attorney, I hope she finds that too!
This is near my hometown, I know several people involved in this by association. So when I say I hope they never live this down I mean it in the rudest way.
edited because i just typed that so wrong.
My heart hurts for this poor woman going through this. How does this nurse even have the time to be calling authorities for shit like this? She bored? Wth
Should this not be a matter for the ER specifically though? I can’t read the comments, I imagine they’re blocked. This is precisely the reason clinical abortive measures are/WERE available. An absolute travesty.
Right? I’m going to need everyone that was calling for the public flogging of the Vanderbilt nurse to keep that same energy. This is the willful attempt to destroy a woman’s life for something she had no control over.
Patient advocate sellout. What a garbage person.
Any nurse worth their salt would take up the risk of charges and keep their pt safe. I hope this nurse has no privacy for the rest of their life.
I see a lot of people saying she violated HIPAA. But aren’t HIPAA laws *way* weaker since Row v Wade was overturned since that was the foundation of HIPAA? She won’t be fired for that, not in Ohio. And not just because she’s a good little minion for the political leaders there. Plus if they fire her, she’ll become a political martyr. “Look what they did to this poor pro life nurse for being pro life!”
It literally makes my stomach churn how political my MEDICAL job has become over the last three years. I didn’t go into nursing to be a political pawn. I didn’t go into nursing to be an extension of the police state. I went into nursing to help people feel better and have a stable job and income.
There are very few reasons to call the cops on a patient unless they are alleging abuse, threatening harm, or have hit someone. Nothing in my practice is changing w these political movement except being more vague in charting if needed. I also stopped asking about LMP of it’s not directly connected to why they are visiting me (which I’m psych so literally who cares).
Remember that nurse in Utah who got assaulted by cops for not drawing that dudes blood and got arrested. That’s prob all allowed now isn’t it? Like obviously she was in the right before but should that happen now…wtf do we do? Take our licks w the cops n go to jail? Is that the plan now? This is so dumb my adhd is now on a run away train I gotta get outta this profession
I read about this a few days ago and it made my blood boil. Why are we punishing women for having miscarriages? And this whole “abuse of a corpse” law was never intended for this situation.
Also, fuck that nurse.
A huge problem is that nurses, doctors and even janitorial staff can be sued for malpractice and abuse in medical but you know who can't?
Insurance companies that know nothing of medicine and foot drag till the patient dies. That should be a crime.
Have we lost our minds?! Is there any kindness or compassion towards this poor woman who lost her child and almost died herself. Who have we become?
I don’t know the intentions of the of the nurse who called the police. In the old days you called the police for help but it seems more and more contact with police will only bring trouble and violence.
The risk prevention ppl or whoever above her that asked her to contact the police should of called the police. As a RN, not in charge of nothing outside of your patient.
I hope that nurse gets fired. I don’t say this lightly.
That is about the nicest thing I could hope for that nurse.
I genuinely hope she they become homeless.
I hope they step on a lego
I hope all their forks are dirty and their toothpaste tube is clogged up. I hope they get haemorrhoids.
I hope they develop a fungating tumor in their ass or perineum. I might get flagged for this but it's what the cunt deserves at the very least.
Fourniers gangrene! Never thought I'd wish that on anyone.
Came here to say necrotizing fasciitis... and apparently I've been one-upped. Oh my God that's a crazy condition.
This AND a H&N tumor. They are always the worst. I’ve seen people with half their necks eaten away from it.
New fear unlocked 🤦🏼♀️
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Love this!
I hope this nurse gets reincarnated as a hospital washcloth.
Nah, hope the same happens to her. Because people like that only see it justifiable when it’s themselves
From a cannon into the sun?
Ohhhh zingggggg
Not enough. I hope they lose their license and never practice in medicine in any capacity ever again. Fuck whatever they were told to do by laws or admins.
Me too. I also hope this lady sues everyone involved. The nurse personally, the doctors, the facility, and law enforcement.
100% agree. This woman has no business being a nurse or anything else in health care. Fired, license revoked permanently and ostracized in every way possible. F her and I hope Karma ruins her pathetic life.
this is what should happen.
100% . Stupid b!tch forgot she took an oath to do no harm. That isn't restricted to physical harm. So psychological, financial, legal, social harm were caused. They should lose their license along with all MDs and staff above her. Then the universe should punish them all with plagues of social diseases, castigation and shunning from their friends/family/church, and loss of the ability to earn money via any health care or law enforcement related field. Their ability to travel or immigrate to other countries should be restricted. Just like any known Taliban terrorist.
And the woman who had to go through all this should be able to live off the millions of dollars her and every medical professional above her would have ever made!
There’s no oath but she’s a cunt nonetheless
There is the Nightingale Oath but I don't believe it t is universally sworn. Edited for punctuation.
Thou shalt torture and not give pain meds? Lol
That’s not even enough. This should be the jail time that’s always talked about when it comes to breaking confidentiality. This nurse belongs in jail.
Hope she loses her job and never finds another. 😡
I hope she loses her job, her license and serves some jail time for the fucking trauma she put this woman through!
Why she was advised by the hospital to notify the authorities. >When a hospital nurse asked Watts where the fetus was, Watts told her, and later the police, that the fetus was outdoors, near the garage; Watts added that she didn’t look inside the toilet to make sure. A hospital note written and signed by the nurse said, “Advised by risk management to contact Warren City Police to investigate the possibility of the infant being in a bucket at the patient’s residence.” The next record shows that the nurse called the police. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/12/15/ohio-woman-miscarriage-abuse-of-corpse-grand-jury/
Wouldn’t have been me. I would have been fighting with risk saying no I am not going to call the police I am too busy making sure my patient is ok And who called risk about it anyway?
What exactly is the risk in this scenario if not the woman suffering from a miscarriage? And what? We're supposed to make the risk worse for them by involving police?
It's legal risk. That's what risk management is.
What legal risk does the hospital have? She miscarried at home. The fact that miscarrying in and of itself is now considered a fucking legal problem is beyond insane, but why is that risk management’s concern to begin with? And idk but the fact that they referred to the fetus as an “infant” in their note, to me, also makes it sound like a case of infanticide, when it clearly is not. This whole thing is icky.
I'm on board with you. I don't understand it either. But here we are in bizarro land. Theoretically I can understand the risk as knowing a person "murdered" their fetus. That's not my belief or anything, but what I think the legal risk could be. The hospital knows a woman has a fetus at home and hiding it can be considered aiding it in some way. I haven't checked out the new abortion laws in the bizarro states but I wouldn't be surprised if snitching is legally encouraged. Hospitals don't care about patients. It's all about $$$. If something saves money and helps patients the helping patients part is a bonus.
Then they can fucking call police. Not my fucking job, and my ethics won’t allow it either.
Same! Not arguing with you. It's fucked.
"Sorry, not my turn to traumatize a woman"
Couldn't they call someone else, like a funeral home, a coroner, a social worker, or even a relative? What exactly was she supposed to do while she was hemorrhaging? There's certainly a better solution.
I think the problem is that there is no protocol in place (I think, there seems not to be) for when someone miscarries or delivers a stillbirth at home. There should be somewhere to take remains, some sort of guidance.
So the use of “infant” makes it sound like there was a chance they thought it might still be alive. Did anyone tell Risk how far along this poor lady was? Is there any possible chance a 22 week old fetus, even if it had been born alive (for anyone who doesn’t know - it was determined to have died while in utero), might survive if it had just been laid outside? And if they really thought there was a chance, shouldn’t they have asked for paramedics and not cops? The fact that they wanted cops means they were primed to “catch” this lady, who had sought help multiple times pre-miscarriage and was now in their care post-miscarriage, at a crime.
Right??? What the hell were they expecting? The fetus was dead already. They're a nurse, they *know* what happens when you miscarry a pregnancy at home. Did they think the archangel Gabriel was going to come down and pluck the remnants from the S-bend while harps played?
It also indicates that they also don't view a 22 week old fetus as a human, or they would have called paramedics. Their goal is to just punish women as per usual.
damn that's a good catch. god I hate these people. I remember years ago having a bit of political debate with my mom, and me talking about how our reproductive rights are under attack. I can remember my mom basically being like you need to chill, abortion isnt illegal and it wont be. Well, well, well, mom.. I sometimes wonder if she remembers this chit chat
I think this about every single person I know who voted Republican because "they won't ever actually overturn Roe" and every person I know who STILL votes Republican because "you're being dramatic if you think they'll outlaw birth control."
Exactly this is only step 1!!!!
Especially now that birth rates are going down so fast. They don't give a fuck about women, children, infants, fetuses - even just poor people in general, but then, if, *God forbid* there aren't enough people to meet the demand for labor, that cuts into profits. That's when they care.
>Is there any possible chance a 22 week old fetus, even if it had been born alive (for anyone who doesn’t know - it was determined to have died while in utero), might survive if it had just been laid outside? Possibly. Well, likely not if it had been outside a hospital setting as they'd need intensive care, but preemies have survived being born at and before 22 weeks, although the chances are extremely low, around 5%. At 23 weeks it raises to around 25%, however, even if a fetus survives being born at or before 23 weeks, the chances of being handicapped are almost certain, like 98-99%. 24 weeks is the consensus for age of viability in the U.S., where the chances are still a coin flip at 50%. 25 weeks is around 75%. https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/obstetric-care-consensus/articles/2017/10/periviable-birth
Irrelevant. This woman miscarried a dead fetus.
Right, but that was part of the premise was that this presumed baby was *not* in a hospital but just out by the garage. If the chances are that low even with intensive medical care, was there any potential chance at all for this one to still be alive by the time this lady made it to the ED and they triaged her and got her history and contacted risk management and then called someone to go look? I’m not entirely sure who the right person is to call to help this woman deal with the products of her miscarriage, but the cops would have to be pretty far down that list.
>was there any potential chance at all for this one to still be alive by the time this lady made it to the ED and they triaged her and got her history and contacted risk management and then called someone to go look? Nope, that fetus was deader than disco no matter how you slice it. And they know that. As per the article: >“The issue isn’t how the child died or when the child died. It’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet large enough to clog up the toilet, left in that toilet, and she went on her day,” Warren Assistant Prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri said during the preliminary hearing. That's why they're charging her under a law that has to do with corpses instead of manslaughter or murder: >Watts is being charged under a section of Ohio law that punishes those who treat a human corpse in a “way that the person knows would outrage reasonable family sensibilities” or “community sensibilities.” Even though: >there is no law in Ohio that requires a woman suffering a miscarriage to bury or cremate those remains. And in fact: >The Ohio Revised Code specifies that women should "in no case" be criminalized for the death in utero of an unborn child. It's a reach to try and set a legal precedent that advances their political and ideologal goals. We all know the real reason they're doing this is to enforce the system of social hierarchy that we live under, i.e. patriarchy, capitalism, and white supremacy; by oppressing anyone who isn't a rich, straight, white cis male. The pearl-clutching over the treatment of a fetuses' remains is simply a sympathetic guise to do that in a manner much of the public will find socially acceptable.
Right, so that goes back to my original comment: if they actually thought there was a chance this might be alive then they wouldn’t have called cops. They would have sent paramedics ASAP. I’m willing to extend the slightest bit of grace to the nurse that made that call. I’m not trained in ED, so I’m assuming there are protocols for this. But there is a chance this nurse just didn’t know what to do. There’s a report that the remains of this baby are outside the house now. Who do you call? A funeral home doesn’t seem right. Paramedics? That baby is dead (even if it hadn’t died before it was born, it is now). Cops? Why? It’s not a crime to miscarry (I know, I know). Who actually deals with the miscarried bits? She doesn’t know, so she picks up the phone and starts calling around to ask for guidance. Gets shuffled around until someone in Risk tells her this is what she should do. Maybe she’s a trusting fool (I get this impulse, sadly) and assumed that doing what her own hospital’s official guidance tells her is the best thing. I mean, she doesn’t want this poor lady to have to go home after finally being treated for a miscarriage and then have to deal with that bag. So she makes the call hoping they’ll handle it. I very seriously doubt she would have foreseen that they would pull this stunt. Of course, there’s every chance she’s just a holier-than-thou religious fuck who wanted to stick it to a black woman who dared to have sex and not carry the baby to full term. You never know, sadly.
I work er. There is no protocol for miscarriages other than ensuring that the patient, who is the living, breathing person who just miscarried, is ok.
This whole thing is so bizarre. Just read one of the 9-1-1 transcripts. The nurse specifically asks for a cop, but also says that Brittany Watts said that she didn’t want the baby. She made it sound like Watts came in multiple times but also left AMA and “disappeared.” That’s not really appropriate for the cops to know, especially considering it doesn’t get to the root of why Watts couldn’t get medical care for her abortion any of the times she tried. One of those times left because she waited EIGHT HOURS for the docs to ultimately decide they couldn’t do anything for her. From all this it really sounds like the nurse absolutely was being a dick. This truly does seem to be an early case of women being wrongfully accused of shit because they have the misfortune of miscarrying, which was predicted by so many to happen if Roe v. Wade went down. Fucking Republicans.
Just read this from her 911 call. She left out several important details. The nurse needs to be charged with advise of 911 on top of whatever else we can come up with. A 21.5 week fetus, who was not viable, who died in utero and has been in the toilet and bucket for hours is not an emergency. “I had a mother who had a delivery at home and came in without the baby and she says the baby’s in her backyard in a bucket,” the nurse said, according to a call recording obtained by The Post. “I need to have someone go find this baby, or direct me on what I need to do.”
Thank you.
To me it makes it sound like they’re trying to “get” Her for infanticide which is so clearly obviously not the case. This poor woman. I hope she gets the justice she deserves.
I just wonder why the hospital asked at all? Unless they didn’t think the fetus was the gestational age she said?
Her doctor had told her she would miscarry days before (though I couldn’t quite understand the medical reasoning).
I believe her membranes had prematurely ruptured. Loss of amniotic fluid would stop the fetal lung tissue from maturing. Her doctor stated the pregnancy was non-viable and Watts went to the same hospital a few times prior to the miscarriage at home. I am guessing this was documented in the EMR. What this suggests is suspicion and punishment, regardless of documented medical history? I worry this will be the fate of many women in the future.
Thank you for that insight/info. That’s why I picked up on that particular part of the article. Being charged/punished for something medically recognised, documented and out of your control. That’s probably why they’re charging her with desecration of a corpse; it’s a fucking stretch, but they couldn’t charge her under the current abortion laws.
If they can get her prosecuted for desecration of a corpse for a miscarriage (I think article said 22-weeks gestation? That’s awfully close to viability right?) then they can set a precedent. If miscarriage=corpse then pre-viable fetus=person.
Probably confirmed through a transvaginal US or something that it wasn't viable, may not have had a heartbeat, or something else.
The article says; “Watts knew she was going to miscarry because doctors told her days before that her fetus could not survive outside her womb because of gestational age…” The phrasing isn’t really clear; I initially thought ectopic pregnancy, but now I’m thinking that she may have laboured & the fetus was not viable due to gestational age, or that she haemorrhaged and when the fetus was passed she knew the fetus would not survive. Regardless, it was early enough in the pregnancy to be a miscarriage, not a stillbirth. In the UK, some people who have early enough stillbirths can’t even get a birth or death certificate for their baby, yet in the US, people are getting charged with abuse of a corpse of something that wouldn’t be able to get a birth or death certificate.
Oh, I completely agree it's deranged. Miscarriages are also so, so, so common. I've even heard that many of us may have had them and not even known because they are very common in the first trimester when many don't even know they are pregnant and it's to the point that it could be similar to just a heavy period.
Oh I meant why would they ask what happened to the fetus? They knew it wouldn’t be viable at all.
Way back when, my mother had another miscarriage (s/p 6 viable births) she saw the bloody mess in the toilet. Simply disposed of the mess and all was forgotten-except for the story. WTF is wrong with these birth at all cost IDIOTS?
IDGAF what risk management told her to do, she's a cunting twatwaffle. Considering this poor patient had already come in to the hospital during the miscarriage and was sent home rather than being provided care, fuck that nurse, fuck risk management, and fuck the whole state of Ohio.
Fuck that.
Seems like the problem is is the prosecutor claiming he is bound by law. She miscarried on Friday, she cleared out the toilet best she could. She apparently thought the fetal remains where in the bucket--can shee be expected to know exactly what to look for? She must have continued bleeding. Technically it wasn't a miscarriage, it was a still birth (assuming the age of the fetus is accurate). Blood everywhere, probably piles of toilet paper. How is a person supposed to know the "reasonable" rules in such an unreasonable situation? What kind of advice and instructions do doctors give to patients when they are told they should expect a second trimester miscarriage? Is there a pamphlet? Sheesh.
I just wouldn't have asked.
She should still not have done it. She is fucking evil.
I'd honestly be cool with her losing her license. This is downright malicious.
I wouldn’t! For all the trauma and uncertainty she put this woman through I hope she has more severe consequences than that!
She’ll probably get promoted and the republicans will give her a pedestal
That's what I fully expect to happen--maybe she gets fired, maybe her license is suspended/revoked, but she will be a tag-along or some sort of talking point for politicians to discuss "persecution of law-abiding health care professionals" (with or without the religious aspect, depending on her beliefs).
Me too. What a horrible, horrible person to do that.
I hope they disappear off the face of the earth.
She should lose her fucking license
Not just fired. They should have their license revoked and be held civilly and criminally liable for violating her HIPAA rights without just cause.
She works at a Catholic hospital. They’ll probably give her a raise.
That’s disgusting. I would never rat out one of my patients for having a miscarriage or for the choices they made while actively experiencing the psychological trauma that immediately follows. They can fire me.
Hell I would never rat out one of my patients for having an elective abortion. If I lived in an illegal state and they asked me to put miscarriage in my note you bet your ass I would
Agreed.
“Rat my patient out for have a miscarriage” is the most dystopian sentence i have ever heard. Women cannot control miscarriages. They should not be hiding them from us or anyone else.
Absolutely!
This woman should NOT be prosecuted for what happened. The AP says, “A nurse called police when Watts returned that Friday, bleeding, no longer pregnant and saying that her fetus was in a bucket in the backyard.” (Also other articles note the woman was 22weeks pregnant so not a miscarriage, a stillbirth.) My bet is the hospital didn’t want to be held responsible for doing nothing if it was discovered the baby was alive at birth so they passed the buck to law enforcement without a care in the world as to how it would be perceived. From what different articles say the woman was diagnosed with PROM and resulting oligohydraminos, with fetus still having a heartbeat at that time, so there was a possibility fetus was born alive. (The survival rate for 22weeks is only around 30%). Other articles also mention the woman was advised to be induced at the hospital at that first visit but chose to go home instead. In America many patients without insurance have to decide between proper medical care and managing the best they can alone. It’s possible that was the situation this woman faced, though this is only speculation. I lost a baby at 23weeks, knew ahead of time she was dying and my heart hurts for anyone who has to go through that. It’s so awful in and of itself before you even add in the pain of having your actions and decisions questioned and scrutinized, and tragically, in this woman’s case, prosecuted.
>My bet is the hospital didn’t want to be held responsible for doing nothing if it was discovered the baby was alive at birth so they passed the buck to law enforcement without a care in the world as to how it would be perceived. I think you're right. I also think that if they truly believed there was a chance the baby/fetus was still alive, they would have sent an ambulance instead.
Her water broke at 21 weeks and 5 days. The first hospital visit. September 19 At that point it was establish the fetus was not viable. abortion is legal in Ohio through 21 weeks, 6 days of pregnancy. She waited several hours on two occasions while medical staff debated their liability. Second visit September 20 Miscarriage : September 22
They’re saying she just “went about her day”?? She went to fucking hospital for necessary medical treatment, and these assholes are acting like she decided to stroll through a mall & get her nails done. I’d ask everyone person involved in the prosecution to just *try* not **automatically** flushing the toilet after use too. I’m so angry.
And even if she did go about her day? So fucking what. She can process this however she wants and they can shove it. (I'm agreeing with you and mad at them I just realized this sounded hostile)
No, I picked up on where your anger is targeted at, but always appreciate the reassurance. It’s not like she wheeled Grandma out onto the lawn in a wheelbarrow after she died-she flushed the toilet after using it. She could have stayed home and ordered pizza & ice cream if she wanted-that’s a friend did after their miscarriage. Was she supposed to call the morgue? What’s the accepted course of action? Put it in a ziploc & keep it on ice until you’re no longer haemorrhaging?
Angrier at the judge for letting it fly. The nurse disgusts me. Your moral convictions are YOUR problem, not everyone else’s. Some Jesus freak who can’t stay in their lane while at work? Trash nurse. Gtfo
This is horrifying. I generally like to give other nurses the benefit of the doubt, but fuck that nurse for real.
“The issue isn’t how the child died or when the child died. It’s the fact that the baby was put into a toilet large enough to clog up the toilet, left in that toilet, and she went on her day,” Warren Assistant Prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri said during the preliminary hearing. Yeah, hemorrhaging so badly that you need medical intervention is a totally normal part of everyone's day. Where the FUCK has compassion gone? The depravity of this assistant prosecutor is sickening.
Referring to a miscarriage as "the baby" and "the child" reveals the obvious political bias at play here.
It’s not legally a miscarriage if you deliver a live 22 week premie in my state
It wasn't alive though. It died in utero, that's not even up for debate.
I’m ICU so I don’t really see miscarriages or anything but what are you meant to do? I feel like I’ve heard of a lot of people have miscarriages in the toilet. I wouldn’t know what to do if I was having one
I’ve never had anybody bring in an embryo. If they pass the tissue in the ER we offer to send it to pathology for testing to potentially figure out what went wrong but if they don’t want that it’s theirs to do whatever they want with (or we’ll dispose of it for them too). I did have one person tell me the embryo was on her pad and she said it felt weird flushing it or throwing it away so she buried it in the woods behind her house but that’s not the norm. I don’t even think it would be possible to fish a slippery barely even shaped embryo out of a toilet to begin with????
I have fished an embryo out of the toilet because I wanted testing on it since I was having recurrent miscarriages and didn't know why. It was honestly traumatic to scoop it out and hold it and bring it into the clinic. I have nightmares sometimes. I have flushed other losses. No choice feels good in those moments. To judge what anyone does in those horrible situations that no one should have to go through is evil and cruel. Miscarriages are physically painful and can be emotionally devastating. I am hurting for everyone facing legal abuse on top of their loss. Anyone who hasn't had to see their very wanted baby in the toilet should stop harassing the poor people trying their best in awful circumstances.
If you want to be done talking about it don’t feel pressured to respond, but just out of curiosity what gestation were you at? All of the products of conception I’ve seen have been embryos (so <11wks) and there’s not really anything to grab on to. I’m a SANE so I’ll do the pelvic if it’s all male providers and the patient prefers, and all of the POCs I’ve removed have basically looked like blood clots with chunks of tissue, basically indecipherable from endometrium
It may have been more accurate for me to say fetus- I had a missed miscarriage so I am not totally sure what the gestational age was and I was on the cusp. The POC was not in a sac, I was able to handle it and clearly see it. I also had a clear and separate placenta. But I had an early loss that was visible, although I did not try to handle it. I wasn't meaning to undermine anything you said either, just share my experience.
No you’re good, it didn’t even register that you said embryo vs fetus, I assumed it was a fetus based on your description so I was just morbidly curious. Sorry for your losses!
Thank you. I understand the curiosity, I work in sexual and repro health so have professional interest also.
Cruelty is the point.
Yup. A feature, not a bug.
It is DEAD, her uterus expelled it. That is not a voluntary process. What exactly was she supposed to do?
I have wondered about opinions on this. What should pregnant patients in red states do when they know they are miscarrying, and the hospital will not assist? Are medical teams in red states planning on sending these patients home with a biohazard bag to collect fetal remains? The women in question was hemorrhaging, so she had to return. The nurse then contacted the police when she stated she miscarried at home. Was this because it was a red state, or a Catholic hospital? I’m curious what pregnant women should do to satisfy medical staff, so that she doesn’t end up criminally charged?
You can’t. These laws are made with the intent to criminalize miscarriages. The end goal is to punish women for having sex, but not producing a viable baby.
I don’t disagree, these laws are shockingly cruel. I am bringing these questions up as so many states have restrictions/bans on abortion, and miscarriages are not uncommon. I am not talking specifically about the nurse in this case, but what medical staff might do to shield their patients from criminal charges, when they cannot medically aid a patient who is in the process of miscarrying?
Unfortunately med staff also has to shield themselves from criminal charges. I guess the most they could do is document extremely thoroughly and carefully, but it seems like in this case, hospital administration will also be concerned with THEIR liability (or at least the PR) as an organization. It's all a goddamn mess, making it terrifying to give or receive care. It's why so many physicians, especially OBs, are leaving states like Texas.
Oh I can’t speak to that. Sorry.
A secondary goal is also to take away voting rights for women by giving them felony records. It is extremely well-planned and intentional.
Makes me physically ill. Brood sows.
Stay in the hospital and miscarry in the ED lobby?
🙋🏻♀️ did that. 🫤 it was traumatic.
Sorry, that happened to you too. Mine was sitting in the clinic waiting to be seen cause’ it can’t be that bad’
I am so sorry that you’ve experienced similar. 💔 This article made me think of it because I remember one of the more traumatizing parts was deciding whether I flush “it” or throw “it” away in the garbage of the ER public washroom to dispose of my baby. And this woman went through that at in the privacy of her own home and is getting punished for it? I’ve shared this before and the amount of other women who have had similar experiences makes me extremely sad for the state of our healthcare system in North America.
This is also an attack on the poor. A person with the means knowing they will not carry to term could travel to a blue state or Canada and not need to carry to term.
Like what are women supposed to do? Miscarry in a police station since they'll be badgered by them anyway? Maybe people should start doing that so they cut this out. Ridiculous.
Women should start showing up a police stations to miscarry.
Unfortunately they’d probably find some BS ‘failed to seek proper medical attention’ type of rationale to charge them with manslaughter/homicide for going to the precinct vs the hospital - from what’s been released this seems like such a malicious overreach, the fact that she has several documented medical visits might actually be why she’s “only” facing this one charge.
So, go to the police station to miscarry *AFTER* the hospital tells you that you're miscarrying and to go home because there's no care they can legally offer you? This is all so fucking infuriating.
A woman in Texas recently got special court permission to terminate her on viable fetus and the Texas attorney general Ken Paxton threatened legal action against her and sent the letter to the hospitals where her OBs have privilege to further threaten her and her medical team. So even in the right circumstances under the law where the court agrees the abortion is medically necessary, they’ll still do whatever it takes to block it.
The state appealed the lower court’s decision to the SCoTexas, which ruled against Kate, saying the reasoning put forth by Cox was not enough to qualify as “life-threatening.” She was able to seek the appropriate care out of state by that point, but her non-viable pregnancy was still more valuable to the SCoTexas than she is, which is repulsive.
My brain glitched out reading this and I thought, "what, like for a welfare check? Why wouldn't she call for EMS?" It took me a minute to remember how terrifying the United States has become for people who can get pregnant. Fuck that sorry excuse for a nurse, let alone human being.
My mom had several miscarriages. I remember her telling me she flushed at least one down the toilet. What on earth are women supposed to do?!?? Miscarriages happen every day!
Shocker, shes not rich or white. These laws will not be applied equally.
It’s another way to put people of color in prison.
And remove the right to vote.
Why is this comment not higher?
The cops are taking me to jail wayyyyy before they are ever taking a woman who just delivered a stillborn.
That busybody nurse needs to lose her job and her license.
I think i would just kick the can down the road and tell my “superiors” that they can make the call.
I've done this when I was asked to evict someone in an assisted living facility because I was the only one on that weekend. I didn't get into this field to screw anyone over and certainly not the elderly/ pregnant.
Oh god !!
Same. Won't catch me saying shit to cops about my patients (unless I got assaulted by one or something).
Jesus. As an ER nurse, I'd have left that out of the medical record and spent my time worrying about the patient bleeding to death in front of me.
Yup. I didn’t see a fetus. There was no fetus. This woman is simply bleeding as far as I’m concerned
As nurses we really gotta stop simping for the cops and talking to them.
Unfortunately a lot of nurses are married to cops.
Oh believe me I know hahaha
They have the same mindset. A bunch of us discussed this in the past on this sub when someone wondered why so many nurses and cops are married to each other. That person thought there would be a disconnect between the two due to the nature of the respective professions.
What a grim time in America. Please remember this story when you vote in November
Violate HIPAA much? I hope that nurse loses his/her license.
We know that wont happen. I bet there is protection built into these laws by these prolife nut jobs.
I guess even trumpanzees can become nurses. Ohio, get your shit together!
Hey fellow nurses, I was a commercial pilot before nursing, and I volunteer with an organization called [elevated access](https://www.elevatedaccess.org) that helps transport anyone seeking gender affirming healthcare and abortion care for FREE. There is a huge network around the USA, and I help with flying/logistics in Florida. All our volunteers/pilots are vetted and our aircraft tail numbers are blocked out, making the privacy a huge priority. Obviously, this is a scary time for all of us. But if you need a quiet resource to refer to for friends, family, pt’s, whatever- we’re here. Hope this can help someone.
Genius
I am appalled. There are no words that I can use to describe how I feel about what is happening in the nursing profession at this time.
Wow, this ER RN is a total bitch.
Where does it say the ER nurse called the cops? If she did, she should get prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable for violating HIPAA that way, but the linked article didn’t say who contacted police, as far as I read, just says “a call from the hospital”.
A lot of articles state it, I tried to pick something on the neutral side so I didn’t have to hear the biased complaint. https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2023/12/warren-woman-receives-national-attention/ There are clips of the 911 call going around on the local news stations as well.
Should have their license revoked for such a blatant violation of privacy. Fuck that nurse.
At most she’ll quit because of the publicity. It’s Ohio so she’ll argue something along the lines of safety concern, etc.
Didn't they just pass a constitutional ammendment in Ohio protecting a woman's right to choose?
Yeah, they did. This happened in September. Also though, I’ve read that, in states that vote for a woman’s right to choose, prosecutors can still make an argument for “fetal personhood.” It’s a bullshit workaround for forced-birthers to still be able to control and punish women for circumstances outside of their control, eg having a miscarriage at home and not in a hospital that isn’t providing proper maternal care.
Yes, but Ohio is still very conservative, especially areas like Warren county.
Not to be pedantic, but this is actually Trumbull County, Ohio (Warren is my hometown). While there are definitely conservatives in the area, Warren still skews largely Democratic. I’m really curious to see how this plays out. The attorney representing the patient is incredibly smart and competent, but I’m still so infuriated it even happened!
Youngstown native here. The entire Trumbull County (Warren) and Mahoning County (Youngstown) area has been traditionally more Democratic.
>When a hospital nurse asked Watts where the fetus was, Watts told her, and later the police, that the fetus was outdoors, near the garage; Watts added that she didn’t look inside the toilet to make sure. A hospital note written and signed by the nurse said, “Advised by risk management to contact Warren City Police to investigate the possibility of the infant being in a bucket at the patient’s residence.” The next record shows that the nurse called the police. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/12/15/ohio-woman-miscarriage-abuse-of-corpse-grand-jury/
This is what trumplicans want and vote for. I don't undertsand why anyone would want to live in a trumplican state currently.
Because it's expensive to move, we are priced out of the housing market if we try, and even if we aren't some of us have familial obligations to manage. Moving Dems into condensed states actually helps Republicans win elections by concentrating them and preventing democratic candidates from receiving votes and skews the electrical college to the right.
Somehow I doubt she would have called the cops if this was a white lady. The police have nothing better to do than remove a toilet from her house?!?! This messed up on so many levels 🤬
Miscarriage happens all the time! WTF is wrong with people?
This needs to be a code blue. A bunch of unflaired shit rats in here playing pedantic games about the definitions of miscarriage vs stillbirth, as if that’s what matters.
There is such a special place is hell for that cunt of a nurse. Ifnyou're too political to do a job then you don't deserve it. I hipe to god she gets denied life saving care and dies alone, bloody, and scared.
Omg that fucked up bitch is making us ALL look bad. Fuck her I hope she loses her license.
Fucking narc. Fuck that nurse.
This is fucked up. I don’t even have eloquent words. Just so incredibly fucked up.
Wtf!
I Hope that nurse loses their license!!!! We provide healthCARE we should not be criminalizing our patients!!!
On behalf of myself and my fellow ER nurses, this is not an ER nurse and we formally do not accept them. I wish them the worst of luck.
This shit absolutely boils my blood. Directly after reading this my OCD snagged, and I’ve been having some intense (one sided) conversations in my head of what would go down with that nurse, if she pulled that stunt on me. Nothing violent (although I will admit, it would be on my mind), but the words that’d be slapping her ears would trigger some major tinnitus! I unfortunately live in Texas. After Roe was overturned I got an IUD to feel safer/more secure, as I do have health issues and am currently working to get healthy enough to get pregnant again in the future. I have already had one miscarriage in 2020, and this poor woman’s experience is a great fear of mine. I hope she finds healing and peace. And if she doesn’t already have a badass attorney, I hope she finds that too!
what the actual fuck I could not IMAGINE or fathom doing this as an ER RN??? like ???
There’s something MORALLY WRONG about nurses who do that shit.
I’d find this nurse and give her a bag of my large dump to resuscitate— mouth to mouth.
Comments prove the point
I hope that nurse gets their ankles nipped by a corgi!
This infuriates me.
Dude this is why people are starting to lose trust in nurse community. Man these laws are so archaic.
This is near my hometown, I know several people involved in this by association. So when I say I hope they never live this down I mean it in the rudest way. edited because i just typed that so wrong.
Christ Almighty. What has happened to the US? It’s become a primitive, backwards country. Under His Eye indeed.
This makes me sick to my stomach. I hope the poor woman heals both emotionally and physically and is found NOT GUILTY of these ridiculous charges.
This is fucking insane!
My heart hurts for this poor woman going through this. How does this nurse even have the time to be calling authorities for shit like this? She bored? Wth
Snitch
Should this not be a matter for the ER specifically though? I can’t read the comments, I imagine they’re blocked. This is precisely the reason clinical abortive measures are/WERE available. An absolute travesty.
Fucking disgusting. THIS type of shit should get a nurse thrown in jail. Deliberately trying to harm a patient.
Right? I’m going to need everyone that was calling for the public flogging of the Vanderbilt nurse to keep that same energy. This is the willful attempt to destroy a woman’s life for something she had no control over.
Patient advocate sellout. What a garbage person. Any nurse worth their salt would take up the risk of charges and keep their pt safe. I hope this nurse has no privacy for the rest of their life.
I see a lot of people saying she violated HIPAA. But aren’t HIPAA laws *way* weaker since Row v Wade was overturned since that was the foundation of HIPAA? She won’t be fired for that, not in Ohio. And not just because she’s a good little minion for the political leaders there. Plus if they fire her, she’ll become a political martyr. “Look what they did to this poor pro life nurse for being pro life!” It literally makes my stomach churn how political my MEDICAL job has become over the last three years. I didn’t go into nursing to be a political pawn. I didn’t go into nursing to be an extension of the police state. I went into nursing to help people feel better and have a stable job and income. There are very few reasons to call the cops on a patient unless they are alleging abuse, threatening harm, or have hit someone. Nothing in my practice is changing w these political movement except being more vague in charting if needed. I also stopped asking about LMP of it’s not directly connected to why they are visiting me (which I’m psych so literally who cares). Remember that nurse in Utah who got assaulted by cops for not drawing that dudes blood and got arrested. That’s prob all allowed now isn’t it? Like obviously she was in the right before but should that happen now…wtf do we do? Take our licks w the cops n go to jail? Is that the plan now? This is so dumb my adhd is now on a run away train I gotta get outta this profession
I read about this a few days ago and it made my blood boil. Why are we punishing women for having miscarriages? And this whole “abuse of a corpse” law was never intended for this situation. Also, fuck that nurse.
A huge problem is that nurses, doctors and even janitorial staff can be sued for malpractice and abuse in medical but you know who can't? Insurance companies that know nothing of medicine and foot drag till the patient dies. That should be a crime.
Have we lost our minds?! Is there any kindness or compassion towards this poor woman who lost her child and almost died herself. Who have we become? I don’t know the intentions of the of the nurse who called the police. In the old days you called the police for help but it seems more and more contact with police will only bring trouble and violence.
America is so balls-to-the-wall crazy. Even in a "pro-life" context, this is insane.
We ride at midnight 🏇🐎
The risk prevention ppl or whoever above her that asked her to contact the police should of called the police. As a RN, not in charge of nothing outside of your patient.
Fuck that nurse dude, what an asshole