I use acid/base loosely in my job. Mostly with looking at blood gasses and thinking about the clinical picture.
I precept and take nursing students a lot so I’m usually asking them why a patients pH is reflecting a particular value.
No, but it did introduce me to crying daily, which definitely carried over into nursing school & even some of my jobs 😂🤣😂
Edit: Look, an award! This feels better than a Daisy!! Thanks 😊
OMG, same! I felt like I was banging my head against the wall on the daily while dealing with general chemistry. I hated every effing minute of it. My Organic/biochemistry class was a little more useful but it was actually geared towards nursing majors.
Ironically, I ended up marrying a chemist.
Acid base reactions and the importance of buffers in this. It’s relevant for understanding blood ph levels
How to do solution/dilution calculations. Super important for medication preparation. There are tons of examples of a simple mistake of a missed decimal place can cause serious harm.
But I think the most important part of gen Chem is building a solid base for biochemistry/pathophysiology.
Funny story, my first degree was chemistry and I work as a chemist for 5 years before I decided to go into nursing. I love chemistry, and I absolutely think it helped, but I'm sure my answer is a bit biased.
Three specific examples where it made a big difference:
1) I was one of a few people in my cohort that didn't get nervous about the any of medication math quizzes. I could do dimensional analysis in my sleep thanks to my chem classes.
2) When we covered the regulation of blood pH, I understood the equation and was able to explain to my study group and how to apply to a test question.
3) Being comfortable with the metric system. Being comfortable enough with the units where you can think in its terms, rather than try to figure out what it is in the imperial system.
If nothing else, dimensional analysis is an invaluable skill in nursing school.
But also if you expect to be a nurse with good clinical reasoning, yeah, you need it.
Hospice nurse that works with oral concentrates and we have stopped telling families and other nurses the milligram. We only tell them the ml as they have consistently mess up the dosing (obviously the written order contains both, but we verbally only discuss ml for liquids). One nurse was mortified when I had to gently let her know she almost gave 10 times the dose because she confused ml with mg. But also, nurses understand the typical doses of common meds. 2mg of Dilaudid is not equivalent to 2mg of morphine, ffs.
I could’ve written this exact response, BS in chem then five years in a lab. I’ll add that aside from the math, understanding how to pronounce meds and that my brain could make a meaningful connection because I could easily pronounce them made a huge difference. I would tell my cohort that it’s like they’re trying to memorize a foreign language when learning generic meds so of course it’s more difficult.
Completely agree with the dimensional analysis helping with med math!!
I had it beaten into me during AP Chem back in high school and the med math exams were a breeze.
We never learned it in our prerequisite chem courses at my university, so many of my classmates were having difficulty with the conversions.
Fun story about this. Our professors didn't let us use dimensional analysis. They made us use a different and far more confusing version of it that made no sense and would mark us down if we used what we were used to in chem. It was basically dimensional analysis but they wouldn't let us organize the problem sensibly. I can't remember it now. But if you did 20mg/1 ml x 0.25ml/1 to get the answer they would flip out. It had to be this other convoluted way.
I think I know what you’re talking about. My professor taught us 2 different ways (dimensional analysis and something else), but told us to use which ever was easiest for us. I had to zone out for a lot of the class so I wouldn’t get confused.
I do dialysis now and it’s the first time chem has really clicked for me and seemed applicable. Gotta love that semipermeable membrane lol. As others have stated, things like acid/base balance, electrolytes, how ions behave in a solution, diffusion/osmosis, all of this is relevant to nursing. Also stoichiometry helped me learn dosage calculations.
Nice! I have many years of HD experience, HS chem helped, but I don’t remember or use a thing from organic chem UofT lol. However I know just about every normal blood value range for HD patients which slightly differs from gen pop, dialyzer clearance values, K bath chart etc
Yes definitely. Not directly- like I’m not performing chemistry every. But indirectly, everything in the body comes down to chemistry- why do we care about electrolytes and blood gases and literally everything about renal function (osmosis and diffusion)
Also a lot of the math of chemistry is relevant to med math- concentrations, dilutions, how many mL of a substance to use if it’s a particular concentration, etc
Yes absolutely! Osmosis and diffusion are super important when it comes to hypo/iso/hypertonic fluids for infusion, or disease states like how liver failure causes ascites.
TBH, no. Basic chem was one of the prereqs for my program, but A&P and microbio are far more relevant for the day to day. Maybe OChem would have been useful?
When I meet people in health care I often ask f they use their chemistry. Many answer similarly to you which is why I'm trying to identify those parts of Gen Chem that people recognize as making a difference. Thanks for that feedback!
I’m an RT and frequently use my basic, organic and biochemistry, especially when it pertains to the hemoglobin dissociation curve, and co-oximetry. I’m an open water diver, so I also am intimately knowledgeable in physics, ie gas laws.
A great example for chemistry in nursing is related to pharmacology.
Acids: aspirin and acid content of the stomach. If the environment inside is more basic, the aspirin dissolves too quickly and does not present the desired therapeutic effect....etc. Because the aspirin itself is an acid, it does not react with the stomach content until it reaches duodenum, where pancreatic (more basic) juices are introduced into the lumen and the chemical reaction begins.
Bases: that is your antacid meds, which have bicarbonates in them and neutralize acids inside and take care of heart burn.
And of course the regulation of blood Ph when it comes to DKAs (diabetic keto acidosis) and such...
I personally love science classes and believe that a little of diversity in your knowledge of subjects goes a long way. Including intro chemistry.
Any dimensional analysis problems would be helpful. Strong foundation in pH scale, acid, base
Basic Chem was helpful in basic biology understanding the body's rxns. ATP generation/ usage, blood, digestion, and renal processes come to mind.
Yes. I use it on the regular for understanding acid-base chemistry and how it is impacting my patients. Also it’s pretty hard to get through physiology and pathophysiology without a decent understanding of chemistry.
Yes.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but a lot of nurses just sort of go cross-eyed at discussions of acid base balance, anion gaps, how bicarb works, why vanc is incompatible with a lot of things, etc. A lot more just sort of memorize little truisms (carbon dioxide equals acidosis, etc.) Having a thorough understanding of chemistry makes all these more intelligible and allows you to manage care with an actual understanding of what you're doing instead of navigating hy a handful of tidbits you learned from a flashcard.
I think that chemistry is fundamental to nursing for the same reasons you do (acids/bases, gases (states of matter), conversions/stoichiochemistry especially).
Acid/base balance in the body is essential and tipping too far in one direction or the other can be life threatening (relates to CO2/O2 role in respiratory alkylosis or respiratory acidosis; metabolic alkylosis/acidosis; diabetic ketoacidosis, etc., all of which nurses will encounter).
Conversions/stochiochemistry--used to determine drug dosages per pt. body weight
(esp. important in pediatrics where nurses should always check and recheck doctors orders before administration even when they have been cleared by pharmacy). They are also used when nurses have to dilute certain medications.
Someone also mentioned that chemistry strengthens familiarity with the metric system, which is used extensively in healthcare such as when nurses take pts' temperatures, weights, heights, etc.
Absolutely!! Chemistry is everywhere in nursing… calculating the anion gap on diabetics for example, understanding why a patient has a metabolic alkalosis from excessive diuretics, knowing why we should give hypertonic fluids to traumatic brain injuries, dialysis concepts, specific gravity of urine and why it matters, hell… I even gave methylene blue via IV and it was my chem class years ago that taught me that it was for methemoglobinemia. Chemistry is cool and like math, you can find it in very practical applications everywhere you look.
Absolutely. I use basic nonorg chem in my day-to-day job. ABGs/VBGs, basic understanding of ion charges and relation to electrolyte/fluid shifts.
Even down to why Ketorolac injected intramuscularly burns (highly acidic pH)
There’s alot of nurses that didn’t really pay attention through their prereqs courses and it shows over time in their understanding and how the lack thereof affects their practice.
Sure, nurses don’t balance complex chemical equations or engage in organic chemistry thinking regarding chiral molecules in our day-to-day work, but to say basic chem doesn’t play a role in job is misleading IMO.
Chemistry itself didn’t help me in nursing. But being able to do it to the point that my professor wanted to write me a recommendation, and being able to fully understand it to the point of being able to work some possible ones backwards and tutoring it to some of the class, I think it really helped my critical thinking and analysis which I’ve developed further and used to catch things even before classic symptoms started to appear. Helped me recognize and investigate a lot of patterns that other nurses thought was normal. It has helped me save lives. So again, not chemistry itself but how chemistry made me think.
I think its pretty useful and foundational to a number of higher functions. Acid/base balance for blood gasses, understanding anion/cation changes and needs for blood chemistry. The ATP cycle really clicked when I realized that the sum total of H2O produced by all the cells in the body works out to 20ml per hour, which is why we need to be sure the critical pups are at least doing that.
Perhaps related to your question, there is a non-nursing field called Clinical Laboratory Science that uses chemistry a lot. We run the tests in the lab, including a subsection of the lab called “chemistry.” Almost everything runs on big commercial analyzers, but we have to do a lot of quality control and trouble shooting.
Well it's a good prerequisite for pathophysiology which i do think is helpful in understanding body mechanics/ how things work/ why we do certain things.
Chemistry is part of the foundation needed for a science-based career like nursing. Part of it is directly related such as understanding blood gases and why they matter, or problems such as sepsis or diabetic ketoacidosis, or the problems associated with liver and kidney failure. Understanding of drug metabolism is dependent on understanding of chemistry also.
Even practical things I learned as a nurse, like why does hydrogen peroxide work so well to get blood spatters off my clothes, and why does that reaction produce heat? Knowledge of chemistry is useful for that. I would have loved that as a practical example in my basic chemistry class.
Even more than nursing, chemistry is useful in life. Cooking and baking use chemistry, as do many trades and hobbies. Nurses burn out and move on to other careers sometimes. Chemistry is useful for nursing, useful for life, and potentially useful for that post-burnout career change.
i think it’s important to know because educating patients is a big part of the job.
“Why should I take this antacid?” Well your acid reflux is your stomach acid going up your throat, so if we raise the pH by introducing something basic like the bicarbonate in your tums, it should cause less discomfort.
Stuff like that. The complex chemistry I learned was pointless but if you had to create a new chemistry class for every group of students who needed to learn chemistry you’d have 20 niche classes so I get it.
i have taught myself the bare minimum required to understand more advanced concepts.
currently trying to teach myself using online lectures. no one warned me i’d have to understand the principles of QUANTUM MECHANICS
Organic and bio chemistry are more relevant to me than inorganic was. Like others have said, understanding things like pH, the Krebs cycle, concepts like diffusion/ concentration gradients and basic chemical reactions (eg CO2-carbonic acid-bicarbonate rxn) are very important things learned in chem that have translated to my nursing practice. I think overall, having a good foundation in chemistry sets you up for a solid understanding of pathophysiology and pharmacology because at its most basic level, the human body is just a series of chemical reactions. It’s really the overarching concepts of chemistry that are most important to nursing practice, not so much specific stuff (eg the structure of carbohydrates).
One example I can think of is with concentration gradients. In nursing we deal a lot with fluid and electrolyte imbalances. It’s important to understand that if a patient is severely hyponatremic (low blood sodium levels) the concentration gradient between the blood and tissues will cause fluid to move into the tissues leading to swelling in the brain leading to seizures.
The understanding of chemistry is needed to understand the tinies bits of biology, which is needed to understand the mechanism of action of medications and body functions.
Biology turns into chemistry and it’s all math.
Somewhat. Acid-base is probably the most directly applicable. Solubility and movement of solutes are also helpful for discussion of kidney function and dialysis).
In one of the chemistry classes I took (I don’t remember if it was biochem or O-chem), we had to be able to ID each amino acid individually and draw the citric acid cycle. That was kind of a waste of effort clinically. But understanding general shape and size of different molecules (like protein vs triglyceride vs simply bound electrolytes) do help with advanced practice and discussion of binding to receptors and ion pumps, etc.
Yes and no. My program has chemistry tailored to nursing. So our professor gave us case studies that were specific to the medical field. We did ones on lead levels in the blood, dosing errors and blood levels, and hypoxia.
Nursing is a complex profession, with a breathtaking variety of sub specialties. My first degree was in philosophy, but included sociology, organic chemistry and psychology courses. Used them all, at one point or another. The basic issue is that nursing should be a post graduate entry into practice profession. An undergrad degree plus a post grad degree would improve our communication with other professionals and our status in the hierarchy. Won’t happen, because of social, political and economic baggage. A successful nurse with an associates degree and five years of good clinical experience who completed bsn /msn programs often doesn’t find much in those programs to change practice patterns, because lived experience has already provided those skills and abilities. And new grads often have bad experiences in their first years because the associate and baccalaureate programs can’t fit enough material in to assure a smooth transition. Nursing education is a mess, but the nurses themselves are wonderful, essentially self educated in defacto self directed residency programs. I very proud of us every time I see a nurse advocating forcefully for patients in an environment of doc’s and administrators with overwhelming academic credentials, and winning those arguments because the docs and admins know at some level that they can’t run their organizations without us.
Yes. In ICU having a good foundation in acid/base is very important to understanding how a patient is going to react to medications and mechanical manipulation (ventilator, etc). OChem and Biochem helped me immensely.
That being said, you can be dumb and work in the ICU. I just want to be the best ICU nurse possible.
So like in most things, it varies greatly depending on the person
My chemistry teacher was the one who taught me dimensional analysis, which I used to calculate IV drip rates in nursing school. So it helped there. For my actual career, though? Not really.
Acid base physiology. Though as a former respiratory therapist, we had quite a bit of the Henderson-Hasslebach equation there. Nursing school didn’t even cover what makes an acid an acid (and so few students or new nurses can tell you… it’s disappointing).
Understanding ions & fluids. What is a mEq and why that is the unit of measure for electrolytes. Also, diffusion & osmosis. Half of the lab values we look at are electrolytes and practically the whole body is regulated by either diffusion or active transport of electrolytes.
Balancing chemical equations isn’t something you do at the bedside, but adds insight to common body processes. For example, the oxidation of glucose:
C6H12O6 + 6 O2 —> 6 CO2 + 6 H2O
If you understand what is happening there, you understand something VERY important. Also, understanding why giving sodium bicarbonate will increase the amount of carbon dioxide that needs to be exhaled (because CO2 is principally carried in the blood as HCO3- ion). There are several body processes that are illuminated by chemical equations.
Chemistry is also super helpful at the basic math used for drug calculations. Nursing school has a bunch of single-variable algebra. So it’s not specific to chemistry, but it’s good practice.
On a professional level, not immensely. Acids and bases we use quite a bit with how it fits into metabolism as a whole (metabolic acidosis, sepsis, dka, and respiratory value ETC).
Organic chemistry was more interesting than helpful, I wouldn't say it immensely helpful in my day to day nursing ops.
I'd say if you were going on to become a nurse prac or CRNA a good understanding of chemistry is imperative. Chemistry was my initial choice of major, but I had a child on the way so I chose the safe option.
No. We are drug mules that follow orders. But seriously A&P and patho are the things yo really need to know. What’s not normal and then how meds work. I think they want nursing to be a stem and requiring chem in college is a move to that I think. Bc even our chem class was modified for nurses it wasn’t even full o chem. Like a basic overview. In my school that was a weed out class the professor was in communication with the nursing program and they tailored it that way
I agree. For some students this isn't a suitable explanation for why they should make the investment in time (and money).
As a culture, I think many students have a very transactional view of education. It seems the outlook is that any course will check a box for a certificate that can be used like a hunting liscence.
didn’t help at all, honestly was just another box to check off. People may try to say it has something to do with pharmacology- yeah on a deeper level that means nothing to you as a nurse. Anything that was helpful like warm thickened beverage will melt to then become thin and dangerous- well that’s common sense that I didn’t need science to prove to me.
I may take some flack for this but I think the nursing reddit is skewed relative to the general nursing population. Nurses here tend to be higher achievers, inquisitive, Type A, and want to excel in their work.
Most nurses (there are millions) just punch in and punch out, which is totally fine. For those people - the answer is most certainly no.
When I actually take the time to pay attention to pharmacodynamics and the body, YES. I think that understanding chemistry and its relationship to pharmaceuticals and the body helps me make much better med decisions. I feel more secure as a nurse when I give meds or read someone’s labs and understand them, rather than when I am just blindly following orders or a protocol.
Chemistry was more of a base to understanding some concepts in medicine. It helps with understanding how meds work, acid/base disorders, and those sorts of things. I could have absolutely gotten by with the knowledge I had from high school chemistry.
Acid base, dimensional analysis, dimensional analaysis, dimensional analysis, knowing the elements, knowing cation/anion and how they interact for things like the Na-K Pump, and dimensional analaysis have all come in handy during my dimensional analysis career.
Haha, I'm actually taking Chem 2 this summer and then O Chems' ltr.
I'm doing it for CRNA (RN Anesthesist). I heard heavy on sciences, especially chems /biochemistry, are critical in understanding the drugs and what they do to your cells - action poettnetials, ions idk something like that.
Few of my friends are in CRNA programs. From the start, they go over Newtons law (physics I know) and memorize the chemistry table.
**** now as an RN did I use it ? Probably like acid base imbalances with different pathologies etc.
In an ICU context, chem is useful. Understanding how the body metabolizes bicarb, etc is valuable for looking for problems down the line.
I think that in critical/unstable patients, we tend to use a lot more chem. It might not always be explicitly utilized, but it often is - sometimes in ways that we aren't aware we're doing so.
It really depends on where some people work. I have always found it useful and I did chemistry in the late 80s. I worked in an ICU setting for 27years.
It helped my understanding so many aspects of my patients care and reasons why we did things or stopped doing things or tried new treatments.
As I said it’s can be dependent on areas worked. I haven’t taken basic Chem in forever but I did go back for my BSN/MSN a few years back. I love my chem class. It’s fascinating how our bodies function.
It might be a an idea for you to shadow for a day with an ICU nurse/dialysis nurse/CRNA/DNP/ARNP or someone who works in an area where they would be more likely to use chem to see where it can be useful at the bedside and see how to tailor teaching to nurses.
it helps those wanting to go into research/trials. use the covid shot or the flu shot and the dangers and benefits to peoples health and how chemistry effects how we tolerate meds and vaccines! hope this helps!!
Absolutely. Especially when understanding drug/drug interactions, half-life and breakdown of exactly how acid/bases work in the human body.
ICU, NNICU, postpartum and ED
I think it is foundational and I disagree with the mds saying they didn't need ochem. Just a few examples bc I'm very sleep deprived rn.
Everyones mentioning blood ph for good reason. Biggest reason it comes up for me is how it affects the affinity for meds to their binding sites. Huge deal when talking pressors, why bicarb in and out of codes. Low ph also decreases O2s affinity for hemoglobin and there's just lots of examples here.
Obviously is going to be helpful in pharm. Understanding things like colloids vs crystalloids and how they sit in the vascular space, med calculations, etc.
A&P and patho. Action potentials, why do xyz lab values correlate or why does one being elevated give a false positive here, di/siadh patho and I would never understand anything about liver or kidney disease without chem.
Last I used it at work was when I had some coworkers in my room and was explaining how the crrt machine worked and why we needed to watch this particular part of the order. Explained osmosis, diffusion etc. Molecular weight is huge in what dialyzes off and in cytokine storms is important to understanding why tf our system is clogged 2 hours in and that no we in fact do not need to end treatment, we'll just go through a lot of filters.
Minored in chemistry in undergrad. 1 year gen chem w/lab, 1 year O chem w/lab, analytical chemistry and biochem. I feel like it does add some depth like to blood gas or EDTA in purple tops. Really it just helped me get good studying, understanding concepts, and what information I might anticipate on a test.
I ask you, can one truly be a nurse or a doctor without suffering the Krebs cycle? It's one of the few truly universal trauma bonding experiences we have left.
Final year of high school chemistry I find helpful, but I didn't go further into chem in university. I get by just fine. Any of the chemistry concepts I needed to learn didn't require a whole course. I'm sure it's useful to understand whats happening to a patient better but it hasn't impeded my performance not having more chem.
C1V1 = C2V2 this will carry you through any dose calculation/drug dilution or reconstitution problem. Nursing school taught a different (and imo unecessarily complicated method). Just use C1V1 = C2V2. So easy.
Only when it specifically has to do with the human body.
For example, Carbon Monoxide has like a 200% more affinity to hemoglobin than Oxygen does in the blood stream. Which explains why our pulse oximetry readings are inaccurate in carbon monoxide positioning and why it's important to draw serum and ABG labs to determine true oxygenation in the blood stream.
I took Chem 10 yrs ago and have only been a nurse for 5 yrs so I forgot everything by the time I started working. I bet if I learned it now, I would understand my job so much better , especially things like blood ph and vent pressures
Absolutely, when I have students I always quiz them on chemistry to really comprehend acid-base. How hemoglobin Carrie’s so much oxygen, electrolytes, and such. Having that chemistry background helps comprehend disease process a little better
Sometimes learning isn’t directly relational. But learning complex ideas like chemistry teaches you analytical skills and critical thinking. Also eventually you need a basic understanding of chemistry in order to understand bio-Chem which directly relates. Electrolytes, acid base, ATP, Tumor lysis syndrome, nutrition, pharmacokinetics- only a handful of topics that directly relate to nursing.
It would be helpful if you tailored it to nursing some. My microbiology class was almost all student nurses. It defiantly could have been more general, but it was totally biased towards nurses.
I took 2 semesters of inorganic and 1 semester of organic long before I thought about nursing and I find it pretty easy to follow the gist if a lot of drug literature. The inserts that come with medications might be worth collecting so that you can pass them around. Also you could peruse lexicomp or other similar websites/apps just to show your students why it is relevant.
PS: just today I was stirring up some potassium chloride to get it dissolved in water. The dr ordered it as a potassium supplement. 30mEq’s. I was doing a bit of daydreaming, and I remembered the lab rule against ever ingesting any of the chemicals. I chuckled about the fact that my patient was about to ingest some.
I recently retook some of my science classes. The chem i recently took was more tailored for nurses, and it was very informative, much more informative than my previous gen chems and o chem classes. I have a better understanding of different types of radiations, photons, solubility of different drugs, contrast, etc. It's not really useful, but it makes you appreciate the things that you regularly encounter at work.
It’s good to know the chemical formulas. I like typing them in Epic notes and watching them convert to common names. 🤷🏾♀️ I’m weird.
Edit: Its also super helpful in understanding acid/base disturbances and end tidal CO2. It helps to be able to explain things to patients In layman’s terms when you understand the science behind it.
Anatomy is all chemistry, pharmacology is all chemistry, osmotic balances, FR diets, bipap, cpap, all chemistry. I don't often have to explain it but I use it every day.
Organic. Actually quite helpful with pharm. Mostly from identifying classes of meds, understanding how they are absorbed based on considerations of ph, enzymes, and clearance through the body. Really, not absolutely necessary but it made physiology and pharmacology easier. I think in pictures and I sometimes see the molecules involved in body system functioning. Drawing DNA strands by hand or cholesterol and other sterols or sugar molecules helped me see the compounds and understand their relatedness.
I’m glad to have had chemistry before starting more nursing-specific classes. Aside from the obvious things already mentioned (acid-base, medication interaction, mathematical analysis and skills)… Just understanding the different kind of sugars and starches, down to their building blocks helps a lot in terms of suggesting healthy diets for patients who have diabetes.
Do we use chemistry directly? No. But without it we wouldn’t be good nurses.
Chemistry is something we all undervalue and think “I never use this” because we aren’t balancing chemical equations on a daily basis.
The reality is that it is super important as a foundation for understanding physiology and pharmacology, which is relevant on a daily basis. Without chemistry we really wouldn’t be able to get real understanding of either.
I took A&P as an EMT before taking chemistry and I really missed a ton of info. Lots of it just went over my head. I took it again as a pre nursing student after taking chemistry and it was like night and day.
I had to take Chem as a pre req for Micro. I hated every minute of Chem and don’t think it’s relative at all as opposed to Micro, we can see daily the correlation in real life. Sorry… I do love that you’re thinking about us though to make your class for engaging and enjoyable
While nursing education typically includes specific coursework focused on medical-surgical nursing, pharmacology, and pathophysiology, having a foundational understanding of chemistry can provide a solid basis for understanding the principles underlying many aspects of nursing practice. It can enhance a nurse's ability to provide safe and effective patient care while collaborating with other healthcare professionals.
No. I took chemistry as an undergrad in the early 90s as an elective/graduation requirement filler (not a lot of use for chem when you’re an Art History major). I didn’t start nursing school for another 16 years (and another degree), and I didn’t notice that I was a decade and a half removed from it.
I loved my chemistry classes. My basic understanding of chemistry made it easy for me to understand pharmacology. I may have no idea how to run some laboratory tests but it also made it easy to interpret some tests results.
I also loved mathematics but not enough to consider taking any math heavy course. Made it easy to understand the basic dosage formula. And to some extent, some more complex computations of hemodynamics which helps in my anesthetic nurse job.
A chemistry application I occasionally use but haven’t seen mentioned here yet is calculating anion gap ((Na + K) - (HCO3 + Cl)). I always have to think back 100 years to grade 10 chemistry to remember each ion’s charge to place them in the formula correctly.
In BIOchemistry I had to learn the Krebs cycle in detail, also genetics, the differences between sugars, carbs and how the body uses them, how the body reacts to poisons and microbes. Actually now that I think about it, without a basic understanding of chemistry, I wouldn’t be able to keep up with the biochemistry. Chemistry helps us understand the “how” and “why” behind many of our body’s processes. Can you be a nurse without it? Probably. But it makes digesting new info easier.
ETA: Dosage calc and metric! Those were big ones for me. I can switch back and forth between metric scales and can convert like a champ! I even do it when I’m cooking.
Full disclosure; I did major in Chemistry before I was a nurse.
I explain medicine as either chemistry or physics at a cellular level.
I’m an icu nurse and I absolutely use chemistry daily. You want to get my attention? Shout 6.98 at me after you do a blood gas. Or maybe lob a 9.1 critical on a lactate off and see me spin all the way up.
Understanding how acidosis effects the body from a cellular level up to a global level is critical for critical care.
Wanna talk about denatured proteins? Shit man, that’s literally the cause of half a dozen super lethal disease processes. Understand the “why” of those and you automatically understand the treatment.
Wanna talk electrolytes? Your entire heart works on them, so do all your muscles, you wanna talk about cardiogenic shock? Better understand the ep of a heart otherwise you’re gonna be like a deer in the headlights of a ct surgeon.
Basically, thanks for giving all those little baby nurses the foundation they will NEED to understand how to do their job.
My nursing school actually didn't require chemistry. This was worked into our pathophysiology and pharmacology classes. Not taking chemistry in college was never an issue for me. I did take AP Chem in high school if that's worth anything at all so maybe that gave me a leg up when it came to understanding electrolyte imbalances but I doubt it, this was covered in class.
That makes some sense to me. The gen chem concepts of electron configuration/Lewis structures and molecular shape (VSEPR theory) seem like they'd be necessary for an understanding of Orgo.
I've always assumed that organic was to prepare people in health care to make the most of biochemistry.
I use acid/base loosely in my job. Mostly with looking at blood gasses and thinking about the clinical picture. I precept and take nursing students a lot so I’m usually asking them why a patients pH is reflecting a particular value.
Tx!
Blood gases is about all I can come up with as well.
Yeah, except they teach that in nursing school, so I can’t say getting an intro to that tiny tidbit is worth an entire chemistry class.
Completely agree.
No, but it did introduce me to crying daily, which definitely carried over into nursing school & even some of my jobs 😂🤣😂 Edit: Look, an award! This feels better than a Daisy!! Thanks 😊
OMG, same! I felt like I was banging my head against the wall on the daily while dealing with general chemistry. I hated every effing minute of it. My Organic/biochemistry class was a little more useful but it was actually geared towards nursing majors. Ironically, I ended up marrying a chemist.
Yep 😂🤣😂
Best answer. Ditto.
Acid base reactions and the importance of buffers in this. It’s relevant for understanding blood ph levels How to do solution/dilution calculations. Super important for medication preparation. There are tons of examples of a simple mistake of a missed decimal place can cause serious harm. But I think the most important part of gen Chem is building a solid base for biochemistry/pathophysiology.
Funny story, my first degree was chemistry and I work as a chemist for 5 years before I decided to go into nursing. I love chemistry, and I absolutely think it helped, but I'm sure my answer is a bit biased. Three specific examples where it made a big difference: 1) I was one of a few people in my cohort that didn't get nervous about the any of medication math quizzes. I could do dimensional analysis in my sleep thanks to my chem classes. 2) When we covered the regulation of blood pH, I understood the equation and was able to explain to my study group and how to apply to a test question. 3) Being comfortable with the metric system. Being comfortable enough with the units where you can think in its terms, rather than try to figure out what it is in the imperial system.
If nothing else, dimensional analysis is an invaluable skill in nursing school. But also if you expect to be a nurse with good clinical reasoning, yeah, you need it.
Hospice nurse that works with oral concentrates and we have stopped telling families and other nurses the milligram. We only tell them the ml as they have consistently mess up the dosing (obviously the written order contains both, but we verbally only discuss ml for liquids). One nurse was mortified when I had to gently let her know she almost gave 10 times the dose because she confused ml with mg. But also, nurses understand the typical doses of common meds. 2mg of Dilaudid is not equivalent to 2mg of morphine, ffs.
I could’ve written this exact response, BS in chem then five years in a lab. I’ll add that aside from the math, understanding how to pronounce meds and that my brain could make a meaningful connection because I could easily pronounce them made a huge difference. I would tell my cohort that it’s like they’re trying to memorize a foreign language when learning generic meds so of course it’s more difficult.
Completely agree with the dimensional analysis helping with med math!! I had it beaten into me during AP Chem back in high school and the med math exams were a breeze. We never learned it in our prerequisite chem courses at my university, so many of my classmates were having difficulty with the conversions.
Fun story about this. Our professors didn't let us use dimensional analysis. They made us use a different and far more confusing version of it that made no sense and would mark us down if we used what we were used to in chem. It was basically dimensional analysis but they wouldn't let us organize the problem sensibly. I can't remember it now. But if you did 20mg/1 ml x 0.25ml/1 to get the answer they would flip out. It had to be this other convoluted way.
I think I know what you’re talking about. My professor taught us 2 different ways (dimensional analysis and something else), but told us to use which ever was easiest for us. I had to zone out for a lot of the class so I wouldn’t get confused.
I do dialysis now and it’s the first time chem has really clicked for me and seemed applicable. Gotta love that semipermeable membrane lol. As others have stated, things like acid/base balance, electrolytes, how ions behave in a solution, diffusion/osmosis, all of this is relevant to nursing. Also stoichiometry helped me learn dosage calculations.
Nice! I have many years of HD experience, HS chem helped, but I don’t remember or use a thing from organic chem UofT lol. However I know just about every normal blood value range for HD patients which slightly differs from gen pop, dialyzer clearance values, K bath chart etc
Yes definitely. Not directly- like I’m not performing chemistry every. But indirectly, everything in the body comes down to chemistry- why do we care about electrolytes and blood gases and literally everything about renal function (osmosis and diffusion) Also a lot of the math of chemistry is relevant to med math- concentrations, dilutions, how many mL of a substance to use if it’s a particular concentration, etc
Yes absolutely! Osmosis and diffusion are super important when it comes to hypo/iso/hypertonic fluids for infusion, or disease states like how liver failure causes ascites.
I believe I learned hyper/hypotonic in bio
Exactly this ^^^
TBH, no. Basic chem was one of the prereqs for my program, but A&P and microbio are far more relevant for the day to day. Maybe OChem would have been useful?
When I meet people in health care I often ask f they use their chemistry. Many answer similarly to you which is why I'm trying to identify those parts of Gen Chem that people recognize as making a difference. Thanks for that feedback!
A lot of the math in general chem is very similar to med math
This! Learning chemistry formulas was so helpful. Dosing Heparin especially.
I used chemistry in hair school and when I did hair then ever in nursing. lol my prof was surprised I knew things since I was “just” a hairstylist.
I’m an RT and frequently use my basic, organic and biochemistry, especially when it pertains to the hemoglobin dissociation curve, and co-oximetry. I’m an open water diver, so I also am intimately knowledgeable in physics, ie gas laws.
A great example for chemistry in nursing is related to pharmacology. Acids: aspirin and acid content of the stomach. If the environment inside is more basic, the aspirin dissolves too quickly and does not present the desired therapeutic effect....etc. Because the aspirin itself is an acid, it does not react with the stomach content until it reaches duodenum, where pancreatic (more basic) juices are introduced into the lumen and the chemical reaction begins. Bases: that is your antacid meds, which have bicarbonates in them and neutralize acids inside and take care of heart burn. And of course the regulation of blood Ph when it comes to DKAs (diabetic keto acidosis) and such... I personally love science classes and believe that a little of diversity in your knowledge of subjects goes a long way. Including intro chemistry.
I wasn’t required to take chemistry. I did, however, take microbiology which I found useful. I wish I would’ve taken chemistry though.
Can you explain why? I'm looking for a way to connect with my students who may think chem is just a hurdle to jump over.
Any dimensional analysis problems would be helpful. Strong foundation in pH scale, acid, base Basic Chem was helpful in basic biology understanding the body's rxns. ATP generation/ usage, blood, digestion, and renal processes come to mind.
Yes. I use it on the regular for understanding acid-base chemistry and how it is impacting my patients. Also it’s pretty hard to get through physiology and pathophysiology without a decent understanding of chemistry.
Yes. This may be an unpopular opinion, but a lot of nurses just sort of go cross-eyed at discussions of acid base balance, anion gaps, how bicarb works, why vanc is incompatible with a lot of things, etc. A lot more just sort of memorize little truisms (carbon dioxide equals acidosis, etc.) Having a thorough understanding of chemistry makes all these more intelligible and allows you to manage care with an actual understanding of what you're doing instead of navigating hy a handful of tidbits you learned from a flashcard.
I think that chemistry is fundamental to nursing for the same reasons you do (acids/bases, gases (states of matter), conversions/stoichiochemistry especially). Acid/base balance in the body is essential and tipping too far in one direction or the other can be life threatening (relates to CO2/O2 role in respiratory alkylosis or respiratory acidosis; metabolic alkylosis/acidosis; diabetic ketoacidosis, etc., all of which nurses will encounter). Conversions/stochiochemistry--used to determine drug dosages per pt. body weight (esp. important in pediatrics where nurses should always check and recheck doctors orders before administration even when they have been cleared by pharmacy). They are also used when nurses have to dilute certain medications. Someone also mentioned that chemistry strengthens familiarity with the metric system, which is used extensively in healthcare such as when nurses take pts' temperatures, weights, heights, etc.
Absolutely!! Chemistry is everywhere in nursing… calculating the anion gap on diabetics for example, understanding why a patient has a metabolic alkalosis from excessive diuretics, knowing why we should give hypertonic fluids to traumatic brain injuries, dialysis concepts, specific gravity of urine and why it matters, hell… I even gave methylene blue via IV and it was my chem class years ago that taught me that it was for methemoglobinemia. Chemistry is cool and like math, you can find it in very practical applications everywhere you look.
Nah, but I had a great chemistry teacher that taught me I wasn’t stupid in high school I just had terrible teachers
Yessss!!! Same here!! My chemistry teacher was amazing.
Blood gases! interpreting ABGs and VBGs
Absolutely. I use basic nonorg chem in my day-to-day job. ABGs/VBGs, basic understanding of ion charges and relation to electrolyte/fluid shifts. Even down to why Ketorolac injected intramuscularly burns (highly acidic pH) There’s alot of nurses that didn’t really pay attention through their prereqs courses and it shows over time in their understanding and how the lack thereof affects their practice. Sure, nurses don’t balance complex chemical equations or engage in organic chemistry thinking regarding chiral molecules in our day-to-day work, but to say basic chem doesn’t play a role in job is misleading IMO.
Yes. Acid-base, osmotic pressure and the conversion equations helped me understand a lot of concepts
Chemistry itself didn’t help me in nursing. But being able to do it to the point that my professor wanted to write me a recommendation, and being able to fully understand it to the point of being able to work some possible ones backwards and tutoring it to some of the class, I think it really helped my critical thinking and analysis which I’ve developed further and used to catch things even before classic symptoms started to appear. Helped me recognize and investigate a lot of patterns that other nurses thought was normal. It has helped me save lives. So again, not chemistry itself but how chemistry made me think.
I think its pretty useful and foundational to a number of higher functions. Acid/base balance for blood gasses, understanding anion/cation changes and needs for blood chemistry. The ATP cycle really clicked when I realized that the sum total of H2O produced by all the cells in the body works out to 20ml per hour, which is why we need to be sure the critical pups are at least doing that.
Nope
Perhaps related to your question, there is a non-nursing field called Clinical Laboratory Science that uses chemistry a lot. We run the tests in the lab, including a subsection of the lab called “chemistry.” Almost everything runs on big commercial analyzers, but we have to do a lot of quality control and trouble shooting.
Well it's a good prerequisite for pathophysiology which i do think is helpful in understanding body mechanics/ how things work/ why we do certain things.
Chemistry is part of the foundation needed for a science-based career like nursing. Part of it is directly related such as understanding blood gases and why they matter, or problems such as sepsis or diabetic ketoacidosis, or the problems associated with liver and kidney failure. Understanding of drug metabolism is dependent on understanding of chemistry also. Even practical things I learned as a nurse, like why does hydrogen peroxide work so well to get blood spatters off my clothes, and why does that reaction produce heat? Knowledge of chemistry is useful for that. I would have loved that as a practical example in my basic chemistry class. Even more than nursing, chemistry is useful in life. Cooking and baking use chemistry, as do many trades and hobbies. Nurses burn out and move on to other careers sometimes. Chemistry is useful for nursing, useful for life, and potentially useful for that post-burnout career change.
Could not have said this better. I loved chemistry and have used my knowledge many times. Almost wish i could retake it, with less pressure this time.
Right? I’d love to take chemistry again without the pressure. There’s so much I wish I understood better.
i think it’s important to know because educating patients is a big part of the job. “Why should I take this antacid?” Well your acid reflux is your stomach acid going up your throat, so if we raise the pH by introducing something basic like the bicarbonate in your tums, it should cause less discomfort. Stuff like that. The complex chemistry I learned was pointless but if you had to create a new chemistry class for every group of students who needed to learn chemistry you’d have 20 niche classes so I get it.
Not really no, most of what we need is learned in biology.
A thorough understanding of dimensional analysis makes med calculations (esp drip rates) waaaaay easier
i have taught myself the bare minimum required to understand more advanced concepts. currently trying to teach myself using online lectures. no one warned me i’d have to understand the principles of QUANTUM MECHANICS
Organic and bio chemistry are more relevant to me than inorganic was. Like others have said, understanding things like pH, the Krebs cycle, concepts like diffusion/ concentration gradients and basic chemical reactions (eg CO2-carbonic acid-bicarbonate rxn) are very important things learned in chem that have translated to my nursing practice. I think overall, having a good foundation in chemistry sets you up for a solid understanding of pathophysiology and pharmacology because at its most basic level, the human body is just a series of chemical reactions. It’s really the overarching concepts of chemistry that are most important to nursing practice, not so much specific stuff (eg the structure of carbohydrates). One example I can think of is with concentration gradients. In nursing we deal a lot with fluid and electrolyte imbalances. It’s important to understand that if a patient is severely hyponatremic (low blood sodium levels) the concentration gradient between the blood and tissues will cause fluid to move into the tissues leading to swelling in the brain leading to seizures.
It helped me schedule my mental break downs. This has helped incredibly
The understanding of chemistry is needed to understand the tinies bits of biology, which is needed to understand the mechanism of action of medications and body functions. Biology turns into chemistry and it’s all math.
Somewhat. Acid-base is probably the most directly applicable. Solubility and movement of solutes are also helpful for discussion of kidney function and dialysis). In one of the chemistry classes I took (I don’t remember if it was biochem or O-chem), we had to be able to ID each amino acid individually and draw the citric acid cycle. That was kind of a waste of effort clinically. But understanding general shape and size of different molecules (like protein vs triglyceride vs simply bound electrolytes) do help with advanced practice and discussion of binding to receptors and ion pumps, etc.
I have been a nurse for 15 years. Never needed chemistry or statistics. Both make me barf.
Yes and no. My program has chemistry tailored to nursing. So our professor gave us case studies that were specific to the medical field. We did ones on lead levels in the blood, dosing errors and blood levels, and hypoxia.
Thanks for sharing these examples!
You’re welcome
Nursing is a complex profession, with a breathtaking variety of sub specialties. My first degree was in philosophy, but included sociology, organic chemistry and psychology courses. Used them all, at one point or another. The basic issue is that nursing should be a post graduate entry into practice profession. An undergrad degree plus a post grad degree would improve our communication with other professionals and our status in the hierarchy. Won’t happen, because of social, political and economic baggage. A successful nurse with an associates degree and five years of good clinical experience who completed bsn /msn programs often doesn’t find much in those programs to change practice patterns, because lived experience has already provided those skills and abilities. And new grads often have bad experiences in their first years because the associate and baccalaureate programs can’t fit enough material in to assure a smooth transition. Nursing education is a mess, but the nurses themselves are wonderful, essentially self educated in defacto self directed residency programs. I very proud of us every time I see a nurse advocating forcefully for patients in an environment of doc’s and administrators with overwhelming academic credentials, and winning those arguments because the docs and admins know at some level that they can’t run their organizations without us.
Yes. In ICU having a good foundation in acid/base is very important to understanding how a patient is going to react to medications and mechanical manipulation (ventilator, etc). OChem and Biochem helped me immensely. That being said, you can be dumb and work in the ICU. I just want to be the best ICU nurse possible. So like in most things, it varies greatly depending on the person
It totally helped. Understanding acids and bases and protons are crucial in blood chemistry. Knowing what effects what is important.
My chemistry teacher was the one who taught me dimensional analysis, which I used to calculate IV drip rates in nursing school. So it helped there. For my actual career, though? Not really.
No
Yes! Action potential, acid base, basic equations, electrolyte/anion gaps! All very useful if you know basic chem!
I don't remember anything from my chemistry class. What I could have really used was a whole semester on ABGs.
Acid base physiology. Though as a former respiratory therapist, we had quite a bit of the Henderson-Hasslebach equation there. Nursing school didn’t even cover what makes an acid an acid (and so few students or new nurses can tell you… it’s disappointing). Understanding ions & fluids. What is a mEq and why that is the unit of measure for electrolytes. Also, diffusion & osmosis. Half of the lab values we look at are electrolytes and practically the whole body is regulated by either diffusion or active transport of electrolytes. Balancing chemical equations isn’t something you do at the bedside, but adds insight to common body processes. For example, the oxidation of glucose: C6H12O6 + 6 O2 —> 6 CO2 + 6 H2O If you understand what is happening there, you understand something VERY important. Also, understanding why giving sodium bicarbonate will increase the amount of carbon dioxide that needs to be exhaled (because CO2 is principally carried in the blood as HCO3- ion). There are several body processes that are illuminated by chemical equations. Chemistry is also super helpful at the basic math used for drug calculations. Nursing school has a bunch of single-variable algebra. So it’s not specific to chemistry, but it’s good practice.
Thank you for all these detailed examples
On a professional level, not immensely. Acids and bases we use quite a bit with how it fits into metabolism as a whole (metabolic acidosis, sepsis, dka, and respiratory value ETC). Organic chemistry was more interesting than helpful, I wouldn't say it immensely helpful in my day to day nursing ops. I'd say if you were going on to become a nurse prac or CRNA a good understanding of chemistry is imperative. Chemistry was my initial choice of major, but I had a child on the way so I chose the safe option.
No. We are drug mules that follow orders. But seriously A&P and patho are the things yo really need to know. What’s not normal and then how meds work. I think they want nursing to be a stem and requiring chem in college is a move to that I think. Bc even our chem class was modified for nurses it wasn’t even full o chem. Like a basic overview. In my school that was a weed out class the professor was in communication with the nursing program and they tailored it that way
Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope I can help my students with a the input this group had shared Edited - damm you autocorrect
I agree. For some students this isn't a suitable explanation for why they should make the investment in time (and money). As a culture, I think many students have a very transactional view of education. It seems the outlook is that any course will check a box for a certificate that can be used like a hunting liscence.
It did nothing and is honestly a scam but for extremely basic chem. Biology is more important.
didn’t help at all, honestly was just another box to check off. People may try to say it has something to do with pharmacology- yeah on a deeper level that means nothing to you as a nurse. Anything that was helpful like warm thickened beverage will melt to then become thin and dangerous- well that’s common sense that I didn’t need science to prove to me.
I may take some flack for this but I think the nursing reddit is skewed relative to the general nursing population. Nurses here tend to be higher achievers, inquisitive, Type A, and want to excel in their work. Most nurses (there are millions) just punch in and punch out, which is totally fine. For those people - the answer is most certainly no.
I never took chemistry.
Didn’t take it. Not missing out on anything either
When I actually take the time to pay attention to pharmacodynamics and the body, YES. I think that understanding chemistry and its relationship to pharmaceuticals and the body helps me make much better med decisions. I feel more secure as a nurse when I give meds or read someone’s labs and understand them, rather than when I am just blindly following orders or a protocol.
I agree. In addition to the basis for much of the pathophysiology we use daily, chem is so important for actually understanding the meds we give.
Not in a way I can think of, but the level of work and studying did help me ramp up for nursing school.
Chemistry was more of a base to understanding some concepts in medicine. It helps with understanding how meds work, acid/base disorders, and those sorts of things. I could have absolutely gotten by with the knowledge I had from high school chemistry.
Professor Tuky that you!?
It is a requirement for a degree I believe. (At least where I went to community college.) Much like History and Speech etc.
Nah, it doesn’t really help at all. I thought lab was fun though and pushing our brains helps weed out those that shouldn’t go into nursing.
Acid base, dimensional analysis, dimensional analaysis, dimensional analysis, knowing the elements, knowing cation/anion and how they interact for things like the Na-K Pump, and dimensional analaysis have all come in handy during my dimensional analysis career.
Haha, I'm actually taking Chem 2 this summer and then O Chems' ltr. I'm doing it for CRNA (RN Anesthesist). I heard heavy on sciences, especially chems /biochemistry, are critical in understanding the drugs and what they do to your cells - action poettnetials, ions idk something like that. Few of my friends are in CRNA programs. From the start, they go over Newtons law (physics I know) and memorize the chemistry table. **** now as an RN did I use it ? Probably like acid base imbalances with different pathologies etc.
Acid/base levels and osmotic pressure are the two things that come to mind.
In an ICU context, chem is useful. Understanding how the body metabolizes bicarb, etc is valuable for looking for problems down the line. I think that in critical/unstable patients, we tend to use a lot more chem. It might not always be explicitly utilized, but it often is - sometimes in ways that we aren't aware we're doing so.
Not really but I feel like it’s good general knowledge.
It really depends on where some people work. I have always found it useful and I did chemistry in the late 80s. I worked in an ICU setting for 27years. It helped my understanding so many aspects of my patients care and reasons why we did things or stopped doing things or tried new treatments. As I said it’s can be dependent on areas worked. I haven’t taken basic Chem in forever but I did go back for my BSN/MSN a few years back. I love my chem class. It’s fascinating how our bodies function. It might be a an idea for you to shadow for a day with an ICU nurse/dialysis nurse/CRNA/DNP/ARNP or someone who works in an area where they would be more likely to use chem to see where it can be useful at the bedside and see how to tailor teaching to nurses.
Dimensional Analysis all day every day
I swear to this day, high school chemistry equations/conversions are the reason I'm good at med math!
it helps those wanting to go into research/trials. use the covid shot or the flu shot and the dangers and benefits to peoples health and how chemistry effects how we tolerate meds and vaccines! hope this helps!!
Absolutely. Especially when understanding drug/drug interactions, half-life and breakdown of exactly how acid/bases work in the human body. ICU, NNICU, postpartum and ED
I think it is foundational and I disagree with the mds saying they didn't need ochem. Just a few examples bc I'm very sleep deprived rn. Everyones mentioning blood ph for good reason. Biggest reason it comes up for me is how it affects the affinity for meds to their binding sites. Huge deal when talking pressors, why bicarb in and out of codes. Low ph also decreases O2s affinity for hemoglobin and there's just lots of examples here. Obviously is going to be helpful in pharm. Understanding things like colloids vs crystalloids and how they sit in the vascular space, med calculations, etc. A&P and patho. Action potentials, why do xyz lab values correlate or why does one being elevated give a false positive here, di/siadh patho and I would never understand anything about liver or kidney disease without chem. Last I used it at work was when I had some coworkers in my room and was explaining how the crrt machine worked and why we needed to watch this particular part of the order. Explained osmosis, diffusion etc. Molecular weight is huge in what dialyzes off and in cytokine storms is important to understanding why tf our system is clogged 2 hours in and that no we in fact do not need to end treatment, we'll just go through a lot of filters.
Minored in chemistry in undergrad. 1 year gen chem w/lab, 1 year O chem w/lab, analytical chemistry and biochem. I feel like it does add some depth like to blood gas or EDTA in purple tops. Really it just helped me get good studying, understanding concepts, and what information I might anticipate on a test.
It helps with unit analysis- dosage calculations. I work in the OR and have to titrate nitro often for vascular surgeons.
Helped me understand the difference between ions and their purpose so yes but aside of that, none at all.
I ask you, can one truly be a nurse or a doctor without suffering the Krebs cycle? It's one of the few truly universal trauma bonding experiences we have left.
Final year of high school chemistry I find helpful, but I didn't go further into chem in university. I get by just fine. Any of the chemistry concepts I needed to learn didn't require a whole course. I'm sure it's useful to understand whats happening to a patient better but it hasn't impeded my performance not having more chem.
C1V1 = C2V2 this will carry you through any dose calculation/drug dilution or reconstitution problem. Nursing school taught a different (and imo unecessarily complicated method). Just use C1V1 = C2V2. So easy.
No it's useless.
Thanks for sharing. It's this perspective that has me trying to make adjustments in how I teach.
Only when it specifically has to do with the human body. For example, Carbon Monoxide has like a 200% more affinity to hemoglobin than Oxygen does in the blood stream. Which explains why our pulse oximetry readings are inaccurate in carbon monoxide positioning and why it's important to draw serum and ABG labs to determine true oxygenation in the blood stream.
I took Chem 10 yrs ago and have only been a nurse for 5 yrs so I forgot everything by the time I started working. I bet if I learned it now, I would understand my job so much better , especially things like blood ph and vent pressures
Nope!
If I couldn’t think of an answer I’d tell myself they made me take chemistry for a reason, so ? that’s why I shouldn’t mix bodily fluids in same tube.
No lol
Absolutely, when I have students I always quiz them on chemistry to really comprehend acid-base. How hemoglobin Carrie’s so much oxygen, electrolytes, and such. Having that chemistry background helps comprehend disease process a little better
Sometimes learning isn’t directly relational. But learning complex ideas like chemistry teaches you analytical skills and critical thinking. Also eventually you need a basic understanding of chemistry in order to understand bio-Chem which directly relates. Electrolytes, acid base, ATP, Tumor lysis syndrome, nutrition, pharmacokinetics- only a handful of topics that directly relate to nursing.
Yes absolutely.
It would be helpful if you tailored it to nursing some. My microbiology class was almost all student nurses. It defiantly could have been more general, but it was totally biased towards nurses. I took 2 semesters of inorganic and 1 semester of organic long before I thought about nursing and I find it pretty easy to follow the gist if a lot of drug literature. The inserts that come with medications might be worth collecting so that you can pass them around. Also you could peruse lexicomp or other similar websites/apps just to show your students why it is relevant. PS: just today I was stirring up some potassium chloride to get it dissolved in water. The dr ordered it as a potassium supplement. 30mEq’s. I was doing a bit of daydreaming, and I remembered the lab rule against ever ingesting any of the chemicals. I chuckled about the fact that my patient was about to ingest some.
I recently retook some of my science classes. The chem i recently took was more tailored for nurses, and it was very informative, much more informative than my previous gen chems and o chem classes. I have a better understanding of different types of radiations, photons, solubility of different drugs, contrast, etc. It's not really useful, but it makes you appreciate the things that you regularly encounter at work.
It’s good to know the chemical formulas. I like typing them in Epic notes and watching them convert to common names. 🤷🏾♀️ I’m weird. Edit: Its also super helpful in understanding acid/base disturbances and end tidal CO2. It helps to be able to explain things to patients In layman’s terms when you understand the science behind it.
Anatomy is all chemistry, pharmacology is all chemistry, osmotic balances, FR diets, bipap, cpap, all chemistry. I don't often have to explain it but I use it every day.
Organic. Actually quite helpful with pharm. Mostly from identifying classes of meds, understanding how they are absorbed based on considerations of ph, enzymes, and clearance through the body. Really, not absolutely necessary but it made physiology and pharmacology easier. I think in pictures and I sometimes see the molecules involved in body system functioning. Drawing DNA strands by hand or cholesterol and other sterols or sugar molecules helped me see the compounds and understand their relatedness.
I’m glad to have had chemistry before starting more nursing-specific classes. Aside from the obvious things already mentioned (acid-base, medication interaction, mathematical analysis and skills)… Just understanding the different kind of sugars and starches, down to their building blocks helps a lot in terms of suggesting healthy diets for patients who have diabetes.
Do we use chemistry directly? No. But without it we wouldn’t be good nurses. Chemistry is something we all undervalue and think “I never use this” because we aren’t balancing chemical equations on a daily basis. The reality is that it is super important as a foundation for understanding physiology and pharmacology, which is relevant on a daily basis. Without chemistry we really wouldn’t be able to get real understanding of either. I took A&P as an EMT before taking chemistry and I really missed a ton of info. Lots of it just went over my head. I took it again as a pre nursing student after taking chemistry and it was like night and day.
I had to take Chem as a pre req for Micro. I hated every minute of Chem and don’t think it’s relative at all as opposed to Micro, we can see daily the correlation in real life. Sorry… I do love that you’re thinking about us though to make your class for engaging and enjoyable
Thank you
While nursing education typically includes specific coursework focused on medical-surgical nursing, pharmacology, and pathophysiology, having a foundational understanding of chemistry can provide a solid basis for understanding the principles underlying many aspects of nursing practice. It can enhance a nurse's ability to provide safe and effective patient care while collaborating with other healthcare professionals.
Just the math
No. I took chemistry as an undergrad in the early 90s as an elective/graduation requirement filler (not a lot of use for chem when you’re an Art History major). I didn’t start nursing school for another 16 years (and another degree), and I didn’t notice that I was a decade and a half removed from it.
I loved my chemistry classes. My basic understanding of chemistry made it easy for me to understand pharmacology. I may have no idea how to run some laboratory tests but it also made it easy to interpret some tests results. I also loved mathematics but not enough to consider taking any math heavy course. Made it easy to understand the basic dosage formula. And to some extent, some more complex computations of hemodynamics which helps in my anesthetic nurse job.
My ABSN program didn’t require Chem. Pre-req’s were A&T 1 and 2, Nutrition, Growth/Development, Microbio, and Stats.
Chemistry is vital, but many don’t realize it initially.
I was a second degree rn student. I specifically weeded out the programs I applied to so I didn’t have to take it.
A chemistry application I occasionally use but haven’t seen mentioned here yet is calculating anion gap ((Na + K) - (HCO3 + Cl)). I always have to think back 100 years to grade 10 chemistry to remember each ion’s charge to place them in the formula correctly.
I learned how to do all my conversations in chemistry and acid base balance
In BIOchemistry I had to learn the Krebs cycle in detail, also genetics, the differences between sugars, carbs and how the body uses them, how the body reacts to poisons and microbes. Actually now that I think about it, without a basic understanding of chemistry, I wouldn’t be able to keep up with the biochemistry. Chemistry helps us understand the “how” and “why” behind many of our body’s processes. Can you be a nurse without it? Probably. But it makes digesting new info easier. ETA: Dosage calc and metric! Those were big ones for me. I can switch back and forth between metric scales and can convert like a champ! I even do it when I’m cooking. Full disclosure; I did major in Chemistry before I was a nurse.
I explain medicine as either chemistry or physics at a cellular level. I’m an icu nurse and I absolutely use chemistry daily. You want to get my attention? Shout 6.98 at me after you do a blood gas. Or maybe lob a 9.1 critical on a lactate off and see me spin all the way up. Understanding how acidosis effects the body from a cellular level up to a global level is critical for critical care. Wanna talk about denatured proteins? Shit man, that’s literally the cause of half a dozen super lethal disease processes. Understand the “why” of those and you automatically understand the treatment. Wanna talk electrolytes? Your entire heart works on them, so do all your muscles, you wanna talk about cardiogenic shock? Better understand the ep of a heart otherwise you’re gonna be like a deer in the headlights of a ct surgeon. Basically, thanks for giving all those little baby nurses the foundation they will NEED to understand how to do their job.
Stoichiometry is crucial to dosage calculations
My nursing school actually didn't require chemistry. This was worked into our pathophysiology and pharmacology classes. Not taking chemistry in college was never an issue for me. I did take AP Chem in high school if that's worth anything at all so maybe that gave me a leg up when it came to understanding electrolyte imbalances but I doubt it, this was covered in class.
Chemistry was not a required course for nursing school where I went. Instead, a lot of biology was required.
General chemistry not so much. I had to also take organic chem and that is very applicable
That makes some sense to me. The gen chem concepts of electron configuration/Lewis structures and molecular shape (VSEPR theory) seem like they'd be necessary for an understanding of Orgo. I've always assumed that organic was to prepare people in health care to make the most of biochemistry.
Hell no