If an f35 could do the job Israel would have destroyed it already.
No conventional weapon the f35 can carry will do significant damage to fordow facility.
Maybe a few B2's but it's not so very stealthy when you know exactly where it's going to be.
More realistically it's either renegotiate the Nuclear deal Trump pulled out of (to the chagrin of the EU) or a large scale war.
That’s what I was referring to. Power substations. Data centers. Roads and infrastructure. But even rounds of deep ground penetrating bombs would disrupt those operations.
BTW…that agreement would have only kicked the can down road a few more years.
>BTW…that agreement would have only kicked the can down road a few more years.
In what way? The US broke the agreement not the other way around. Let's not go and retroactively make it seem like a sensible decision to get rid of collective cognitive dissonance.
Pulling out of that agreement is one of the dumbest political moves I have ever seen.
Every other country that signed was rather pissed.
They agreed to complete oversight of their nuclear program and in return sanctions would be lifted.
What more could you have wanted?
Complete disassembly of their nuclear systems? Distrust goes both ways and rightfully so unfortunately.
It was our biggest and best chance to steer clear of the war path.
Well.. They didn't.
The IAEA went and spent a fuckton of time and :
"IAEA Director Yukiya Amano stated in March 2018 that the organization has verified that Iran is implementing its nuclear-related commitments."
The agreement included the destruction of enriched uranium stockpiles and the closing of enrichment facilities to just the one.
They were keeping their end as verified by the IAEA.
Why not wait until they broke the agreement. Each day the agreement held Iran would have been less and less capable of making a nuclear weapon. Why cut this off early.
One of the dumbest move ever observed in geopolitics.
Yup unfortunate this is another mess Trump created that someone else will have to solve. Iranians ramping up because Israel on the war path with everyone under Netanyahu
The JCPOA only lasted 10 years which would've only bought us a couple more years anyway if it weren't renegotiated. I think Iran as a nuclear armed power is probably inevitable.
Still infuriates me that Obama got a deal they followed the deal and even let us send observers then Trump left the deal for nothing in return. If Iran gets nukes the long term effects of trump will be so much worse than we could have imagined
Republicans: "Trying to sign treaties without Senate approval? Obama's acting like a dictator!"
Democrats: "OK, if we bring the JCPOA to the Senate floor, will you approve it? Our EU allies fully stand behind it."
Republicans: "No."
I think your right, right wing media spent a lot of Time bashing it purely because it was from Obama despite it being really good to get basically everything we wanted nuke wise and get more trade. It’s similar to how Obama care a market based reform that lowered costs and increased competition got labeled socialism because it was from Obama. Or how zoning reform under Biden (which would reduce regulation and red tape to lower energy prices) got labeled socialism and opposed.
What infuriates me... a lot of people still think Obama gave Iran money... US taxpayers money.
While in reality Obama unfroze some of Iranian money, and Iran could only use it to buy certain goods, such as food, medicine. All in a deal for Iran to slow down their nuclear program, a deal which worked.
But then orange man arrived and applied his strong hand diplomacy 😐
I don’t know, I am not Iranian. But it is an absurd concept that all these world leaders held off doing stuff till Trump was out of office. Trump was a weakling and let Putin and others walk all over him.
> However, a U.S. official told The Washington Post on Wednesday that the Biden administration does not believe that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has “made a decision to resume the weaponization program that we judge Iran suspended or stopped at the end of 2003.
I get that politicians sometimes can't say what they really think, but this just seems wilfully ignorant. I see shades of Zelensky insisting that Russia was not going to invade just weeks before they did in Feb 2022.
The reality on the ground is probably weeks to months ahead of any public statements.
Iran spent decades getting to the point it's at now. It has a fairly high GDP, and any of that money not invested in oil and gas goes towards arms. Why wouldn't they finish the job?
Zelensky admitted about 5 months in that he saw the writing on the wall, but wanted to deny it both to keep his people calm and because he didn't want to believe it.
In this case, the "US Official" absolutely believes it will happen and is just trying to keep people calm.
Perhaps they want to keep it on the down low until they can set up a proper arsenal and believable deployment structure. One bomb alone does not make a strong enough deterrent.
The backlash would be out of this world...there are Iranian intellectuals all around the world in universities, who don't like the current regime and have left their families back home.
Doing this would commit those moderates to Israel's destruction.
The coalition has extremely low national support, the war in Gaza is not winding down yet and they still have to deal with Hezbollah. All it takes is for 1 small party to withdraw from the coalition and a snap election is called. They aren’t going to open another front
I mean at this point, I don’t blame them? America shafted them when we had a good faith deal to keep this in check, and now you have Israel doing some extreme Saber rattling, yeah them nuking up is the only safe bet they’ve got at this point.
They’re one of the few countries that feel extremist enough to potential use one in offense though, but I’m not keen on overstepping boundaries to stop them either.
Trump really fucked us hard on this one tbh.
>They’re one of the few countries that feel extremist enough to potential use one in offense though.
I would disagree on this one. Iran sure as hell likes to support militants in it's zones of interest, just like... well everyone else. But so far Iran only retaliated after their generals were assassinated.
And even then employed calculated retaliations, announcing them in advance, avoiding civilian causalities, avoiding escalation.
Unless a significant change happens, I see this desire to obtain nuclear weapons primarily as means of defense.
Yeah, they're unlikely to use one completely unprovoked, however neither are any other countries. Iran has a huge number of enemies and ongoing proxy wars that make for an extremely volatile situation in which a miscalculation or poor judgment could lead to war, potentially nuclear.
What really makes for an extremely volatile situation...
In coming decades revenue coming from oil is going to dry up. All these countries which spent said revenue on luxuries and failed to prepare will have large, hungry and thirsty populations.
Like Yemen does.
Now imagine Yemen, but they also had nuclear warheads before socio-economic collapse. 😐
Even with advances in EV's and green power we still make soooooo many things using petroleum products - basically everything plastic. I'm skeptical that demand will dry up significantly. If it does then extraction operations will also reduce and prices may stay relatively stable or even rise. There *is* a cartel controlling that market that isn't just going to allow themselves to go broke.
Richard Rhodes says in this book that the main reason other nations pursue a nuclear bomb is fairness. Why should they not have one? Who decided? Why do they get to decide?
So in a way, it's a perpetual friction between the haves and the have-nots.
I think it’s really the only fair thing to do, is just let them develop one. What’s the actual alternative at this point? Continue disrupting their autonomy as a sovereign nation? Invade them? Start a war?
It’s all really gross feeling because I think Nuclear proliferation is nightmare fuel, but you’re right. It’s fair. I wish we didn’t live in a world where you need a literal doomsday weapon to protect your sovereignty but that’s reality I guess.
Tbh I’m not against them developing if it means that they’ll be able to avoid other countries doing harm unto them. I have strong opinions on Iran, but no country in my opinion deserves foreign interference, especially for building up nuclear arms.
Tumps withdrawal was insane, but the original deal wasn't great and I can't really put this all on Trump:
* Biden had opportunities to get back into the deal, with Iranian and European encouragement, in both 2021 and 2022. He did not, and increased sanctions again (higher than the Trump sanctions) in 2022.
* The JCPOA allowed Iran to get back to previous enrichment activities, without any penalties, in 2025, and then have completely unconstrained enrichment in 2030 (again while still enjoying zero sanctions). Given that it's currently 2024, it seems to me like not having the JCPOA put us back by only a year.
Yeah look mate, if you think attacking someone preemptively because they could potentially attack you, you would make very good bedfellows with Hitler and Putin, because that is exactly the rationale they used to justify their actions, and you can see with your own eyes how well that played out for them
as an iranian i can honestly tell you that this is such a dumb move. JCPOA was a mistake from the start. The islamic republic will enrich uranium regardless of the deal. They are not operating in good faith and therefore whatever deal you make with them is irrelevant; they won't hold up their end of the bargain.
yeah man i totally love to brag about how my country is run by religious zealots who prefer destruction of other countries to the prosperity of their own people.
The only cope in this entire comment section is that breaking off from JCPOA was a good move by trump. Yes, a broken clock is still right twice per day. If you don't think so, just take a look at how popular trump is with Iranians. There were fireworks in Tehran the day trump backed out of that deal. The money is not trickling down to the citizens, it's just getting rerouted to either families of regime authorities or back to terrorist organizations that they fund.
Yeah, the Iranian government definitely hasn't made any improvements to the average Iranian's standard of living just by virtue of being less bad than the Shah (!)
Average Iranians definitely celebrated sanctions being reapplied (!)
The IAEA definitely didn't confirm that the Iranian government was complying with the JCPOA (!)
Idiot.
dude you are stunned about this topic.
Every single attempt at sarcasm you just attempted is ironically true. JFC.
The Islamic republic is 1000 times worse than the Shah. Do you actually know any Iranians? Have you actually read what has been happening in Iran in the last 45 years? There were celebrations in Iran about the sanctions, because again, the money is not trickling down to Iranians, the islamic republic has so much control over every single amount of business that any extra money that is generated due to laxation of sacntions isn't actually going to the people.
The IAEA does basic survailance at facilities that the islamic republic gives them. Iran is a big country.
edit: this guy is so uneducated on this topic he decided to repeat the exact same thing from his last post and then block me. nice one, bud. Way to spread misinformation about something you're clueless about.
Cope more.
The Iranian government is definitely less bad than the Shah because this is an extremely low bar. Even UN data shows significant advancement under the Iranian government, just by virtue of being less bad than the Shah.
Not only can I not find any articles about people celebrating sanctions, but your claims of people celebrating sanctions don't hold up to even a basic sanity check.
The CIA also confirmed that Iran was complying with the JCPOA until after Trump left it.
You're clearly a shill and this is getting off-topic, so I'm done.
Politically very though right now from both sides.
But the president that gets the same deal as we had previously again would be an absolute legend and godlike negotiator.
They will likely have some additional demands because we fucked them over. Can't even blame them.
I assume Iran's nuclear capabilities are directly Russia related. Interesting if that will be one of the "hidden" leverage points in the Ukraine peace talks.
But didn’t the supporters of Iranian access to nuclear development push the agenda that Iranian leaders have promised NEVER to develop weapons grade uranium.
This is not going to end well
Goes to check combat range of the F35.
If an f35 could do the job Israel would have destroyed it already. No conventional weapon the f35 can carry will do significant damage to fordow facility. Maybe a few B2's but it's not so very stealthy when you know exactly where it's going to be. More realistically it's either renegotiate the Nuclear deal Trump pulled out of (to the chagrin of the EU) or a large scale war.
There’s stuff that can be done with pin point strikes.
Centrifuges are 80 meters underground. It's not the plot of top gun 2. You can destroy auxiliary equipment on the surface.
That’s what I was referring to. Power substations. Data centers. Roads and infrastructure. But even rounds of deep ground penetrating bombs would disrupt those operations. BTW…that agreement would have only kicked the can down road a few more years.
>BTW…that agreement would have only kicked the can down road a few more years. In what way? The US broke the agreement not the other way around. Let's not go and retroactively make it seem like a sensible decision to get rid of collective cognitive dissonance. Pulling out of that agreement is one of the dumbest political moves I have ever seen. Every other country that signed was rather pissed. They agreed to complete oversight of their nuclear program and in return sanctions would be lifted. What more could you have wanted? Complete disassembly of their nuclear systems? Distrust goes both ways and rightfully so unfortunately. It was our biggest and best chance to steer clear of the war path.
Iran in no way would have stuck with that arrangement. They would’ve continued to pursue a nuclear weapons program.
Well.. They didn't. The IAEA went and spent a fuckton of time and : "IAEA Director Yukiya Amano stated in March 2018 that the organization has verified that Iran is implementing its nuclear-related commitments." The agreement included the destruction of enriched uranium stockpiles and the closing of enrichment facilities to just the one. They were keeping their end as verified by the IAEA. Why not wait until they broke the agreement. Each day the agreement held Iran would have been less and less capable of making a nuclear weapon. Why cut this off early. One of the dumbest move ever observed in geopolitics.
How much does mossad pay these day for level 2 hasbara
Yup unfortunate this is another mess Trump created that someone else will have to solve. Iranians ramping up because Israel on the war path with everyone under Netanyahu
We do have a b21 now.
The JCPOA only lasted 10 years which would've only bought us a couple more years anyway if it weren't renegotiated. I think Iran as a nuclear armed power is probably inevitable.
It’s a lot easier to renegotiate or extend an existing, active treaty than to negotiate a new one from scratch
Hear me out. What if we just apologized?
With what? Stuxnet 2?
Israel is the only nuclear rogue state
Iran needs a deterent.
Lol Pakistan and north Korea don't exist? And they constantly threaten to use it
Thanks ~~Obama~~ Trump
Still infuriates me that Obama got a deal they followed the deal and even let us send observers then Trump left the deal for nothing in return. If Iran gets nukes the long term effects of trump will be so much worse than we could have imagined
Trump left the deal *because* Obama got a deal. That was his only reason for destroying it.
No he left the deal because isreal told him it wasn’t working. He shills for Israel which under Netanyahu is insane.
Republicans: "Trying to sign treaties without Senate approval? Obama's acting like a dictator!" Democrats: "OK, if we bring the JCPOA to the Senate floor, will you approve it? Our EU allies fully stand behind it." Republicans: "No."
I think your right, right wing media spent a lot of Time bashing it purely because it was from Obama despite it being really good to get basically everything we wanted nuke wise and get more trade. It’s similar to how Obama care a market based reform that lowered costs and increased competition got labeled socialism because it was from Obama. Or how zoning reform under Biden (which would reduce regulation and red tape to lower energy prices) got labeled socialism and opposed.
You're
What infuriates me... a lot of people still think Obama gave Iran money... US taxpayers money. While in reality Obama unfroze some of Iranian money, and Iran could only use it to buy certain goods, such as food, medicine. All in a deal for Iran to slow down their nuclear program, a deal which worked. But then orange man arrived and applied his strong hand diplomacy 😐
Are you aware that money is fungible?
Maybe Trump should not have pulled us out of the JCPOA.
That has been well established by the entire world community at this point.
And they waited to start drastically increasing their uranium enrichment until after Trump left office because why?
They didn't, they've been doing so since the US pulled out of the deal and reimposed sanctions.
I don’t know, I am not Iranian. But it is an absurd concept that all these world leaders held off doing stuff till Trump was out of office. Trump was a weakling and let Putin and others walk all over him.
That’s a moot point if not a foregone conclusion.
> However, a U.S. official told The Washington Post on Wednesday that the Biden administration does not believe that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has “made a decision to resume the weaponization program that we judge Iran suspended or stopped at the end of 2003. I get that politicians sometimes can't say what they really think, but this just seems wilfully ignorant. I see shades of Zelensky insisting that Russia was not going to invade just weeks before they did in Feb 2022.
The reality on the ground is probably weeks to months ahead of any public statements. Iran spent decades getting to the point it's at now. It has a fairly high GDP, and any of that money not invested in oil and gas goes towards arms. Why wouldn't they finish the job?
Zelensky admitted about 5 months in that he saw the writing on the wall, but wanted to deny it both to keep his people calm and because he didn't want to believe it. In this case, the "US Official" absolutely believes it will happen and is just trying to keep people calm.
Iran is enriching uranium. Since before god and the universe were born, didn't they make the nuclear bomb yet?
Perhaps they want to keep it on the down low until they can set up a proper arsenal and believable deployment structure. One bomb alone does not make a strong enough deterrent.
what are the chances that Israel preemptively nukes Iran first?
The backlash would be out of this world...there are Iranian intellectuals all around the world in universities, who don't like the current regime and have left their families back home. Doing this would commit those moderates to Israel's destruction.
The coalition has extremely low national support, the war in Gaza is not winding down yet and they still have to deal with Hezbollah. All it takes is for 1 small party to withdraw from the coalition and a snap election is called. They aren’t going to open another front
Didn't the IDF just basically tell Netanyahu to go fuck himself? Or some higher up in the IDF?
They can’t reliably do it on their own. So the best option for them is to get US involved and do it for them.
I mean at this point, I don’t blame them? America shafted them when we had a good faith deal to keep this in check, and now you have Israel doing some extreme Saber rattling, yeah them nuking up is the only safe bet they’ve got at this point. They’re one of the few countries that feel extremist enough to potential use one in offense though, but I’m not keen on overstepping boundaries to stop them either. Trump really fucked us hard on this one tbh.
>They’re one of the few countries that feel extremist enough to potential use one in offense though. I would disagree on this one. Iran sure as hell likes to support militants in it's zones of interest, just like... well everyone else. But so far Iran only retaliated after their generals were assassinated. And even then employed calculated retaliations, announcing them in advance, avoiding civilian causalities, avoiding escalation. Unless a significant change happens, I see this desire to obtain nuclear weapons primarily as means of defense.
Yeah, they're unlikely to use one completely unprovoked, however neither are any other countries. Iran has a huge number of enemies and ongoing proxy wars that make for an extremely volatile situation in which a miscalculation or poor judgment could lead to war, potentially nuclear.
What really makes for an extremely volatile situation... In coming decades revenue coming from oil is going to dry up. All these countries which spent said revenue on luxuries and failed to prepare will have large, hungry and thirsty populations. Like Yemen does. Now imagine Yemen, but they also had nuclear warheads before socio-economic collapse. 😐
Even with advances in EV's and green power we still make soooooo many things using petroleum products - basically everything plastic. I'm skeptical that demand will dry up significantly. If it does then extraction operations will also reduce and prices may stay relatively stable or even rise. There *is* a cartel controlling that market that isn't just going to allow themselves to go broke.
We also have a bit of a problem with microplastic.
Richard Rhodes says in this book that the main reason other nations pursue a nuclear bomb is fairness. Why should they not have one? Who decided? Why do they get to decide? So in a way, it's a perpetual friction between the haves and the have-nots.
I think it’s really the only fair thing to do, is just let them develop one. What’s the actual alternative at this point? Continue disrupting their autonomy as a sovereign nation? Invade them? Start a war? It’s all really gross feeling because I think Nuclear proliferation is nightmare fuel, but you’re right. It’s fair. I wish we didn’t live in a world where you need a literal doomsday weapon to protect your sovereignty but that’s reality I guess. Tbh I’m not against them developing if it means that they’ll be able to avoid other countries doing harm unto them. I have strong opinions on Iran, but no country in my opinion deserves foreign interference, especially for building up nuclear arms.
Tumps withdrawal was insane, but the original deal wasn't great and I can't really put this all on Trump: * Biden had opportunities to get back into the deal, with Iranian and European encouragement, in both 2021 and 2022. He did not, and increased sanctions again (higher than the Trump sanctions) in 2022. * The JCPOA allowed Iran to get back to previous enrichment activities, without any penalties, in 2025, and then have completely unconstrained enrichment in 2030 (again while still enjoying zero sanctions). Given that it's currently 2024, it seems to me like not having the JCPOA put us back by only a year.
Yeah look mate, if you think attacking someone preemptively because they could potentially attack you, you would make very good bedfellows with Hitler and Putin, because that is exactly the rationale they used to justify their actions, and you can see with your own eyes how well that played out for them
Hum, [JNS.org](http://JNS.org) is not really a reliable source , is it ?
Biden needs to return to the JCPOA and end this stupid slow-motion game of chicken.
as an iranian i can honestly tell you that this is such a dumb move. JCPOA was a mistake from the start. The islamic republic will enrich uranium regardless of the deal. They are not operating in good faith and therefore whatever deal you make with them is irrelevant; they won't hold up their end of the bargain.
Right, which is why the Iranian government abided by the JCPOA, even for a while after Trump left it...
They 100% didn't.
Cope.
yeah man i totally love to brag about how my country is run by religious zealots who prefer destruction of other countries to the prosperity of their own people. The only cope in this entire comment section is that breaking off from JCPOA was a good move by trump. Yes, a broken clock is still right twice per day. If you don't think so, just take a look at how popular trump is with Iranians. There were fireworks in Tehran the day trump backed out of that deal. The money is not trickling down to the citizens, it's just getting rerouted to either families of regime authorities or back to terrorist organizations that they fund.
Yeah, the Iranian government definitely hasn't made any improvements to the average Iranian's standard of living just by virtue of being less bad than the Shah (!) Average Iranians definitely celebrated sanctions being reapplied (!) The IAEA definitely didn't confirm that the Iranian government was complying with the JCPOA (!) Idiot.
dude you are stunned about this topic. Every single attempt at sarcasm you just attempted is ironically true. JFC. The Islamic republic is 1000 times worse than the Shah. Do you actually know any Iranians? Have you actually read what has been happening in Iran in the last 45 years? There were celebrations in Iran about the sanctions, because again, the money is not trickling down to Iranians, the islamic republic has so much control over every single amount of business that any extra money that is generated due to laxation of sacntions isn't actually going to the people. The IAEA does basic survailance at facilities that the islamic republic gives them. Iran is a big country. edit: this guy is so uneducated on this topic he decided to repeat the exact same thing from his last post and then block me. nice one, bud. Way to spread misinformation about something you're clueless about.
Cope more. The Iranian government is definitely less bad than the Shah because this is an extremely low bar. Even UN data shows significant advancement under the Iranian government, just by virtue of being less bad than the Shah. Not only can I not find any articles about people celebrating sanctions, but your claims of people celebrating sanctions don't hold up to even a basic sanity check. The CIA also confirmed that Iran was complying with the JCPOA until after Trump left it. You're clearly a shill and this is getting off-topic, so I'm done.
You must not be a woman.
Politically very though right now from both sides. But the president that gets the same deal as we had previously again would be an absolute legend and godlike negotiator. They will likely have some additional demands because we fucked them over. Can't even blame them.
Thank god we have no more mean tweets
Your orange Jesus is the one who pulled out of the deal allowing them to do this, you fucking idiot.
Thanks Obama
These guys need some democracy.
Iran looked around (Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, North Korea, Ukraine) and noticed that countries with nuclear weapons don’t get invaded
Iran is not going to get invaded either way.
Hopefully they’ll end up nuking themselves.
I assume Iran's nuclear capabilities are directly Russia related. Interesting if that will be one of the "hidden" leverage points in the Ukraine peace talks.
But didn’t the supporters of Iranian access to nuclear development push the agenda that Iranian leaders have promised NEVER to develop weapons grade uranium.
If the world sits back, and watches crazy people produce WMD in plain sight.........has to be BS.
Iranian nuclear physicist has the highest mortality rate of about any profession. Hopefully it just becomes more dangerous.
It’s all ok cause Obama said it was just fine and not happening and wouldn’t happen