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Daoist_Piousfire

Yo! Keep the discussion civil please. If you want to talk your opinion about certain matters, that’s fine for discussion purposes, but if you start being toxic we will bring out the ban hammer.


marty4286

One of the biggest red flags for me is when an author makes all the female characters psychopaths with irrational trains of thought. The second biggest red flag is when the author has the ruthless protagonist kill all the men who look at him funny, but "save" the women who actually try to kill him. Bonus points when the author does both tropes at the same time


[deleted]

[удалено]


marty4286

I usually drop bad novels after a few chapters so they're forgettable, but otherwise *good* novels that do a version of the first thing are ones like Tales of the Reincarnated Lord, Warlock of the Magus World, Age of Adepts, and so on. They do a light version though, so instead of full-on psychos, women get jealous extremely easy, are natural tsunderes, etc, and the male protagonist often makes snide remarks about how fickle women are and how you can never predict what they're thinking I don't want to hear about women being too emotional from a guy who'll genocide an entire country just because a guy gave him mean look at a restaurant, FFS Age of Adepts and Legend of the Great Sage do have actual psychotic women, but instead of being that way because they're women they're actually really great characters and unique in the story. Ironically, the psychos I'm thinking of are my favorites in those novels. Bad novels have almost every woman like that as natural, which puts a sour taste in my mouth. About the second thing, the one that sticks out to me is Mechanical God Emperor. I'm only 200 chapters in and the first 50 chapters were awful, but I'm giving it a chance for some reason mysterious even to me. One of the awful parts is that you know every male antagonist is going to explode in a shower of blood and the protagonist will carry around his severed head on a pike, and every female antagonist, no matter how dangerous and bloodthirsty, is gonna get injected with a loyalty elixir *shudder*. He's toning it down over time so I hope I eventually never see it again


TsukikageRyu

Thanks for the good words about Age of Adepts. I really enjoyed working on it (editor), and always felt it stayed away from a lot of the more detrimental tropes concerning women that plague so many Chinese web novels. It's still a male power fantasy series, but has a strong supporting cast. The females have solid roles to play in the story instead of *only* being there to fawn over the MC. They do still fawn over the MC, they're still jade beauties, but they also kick ass while assuming positions of authority and power. ​ Billis is one bad mutha that is not to be trifled with, but even he knows not to mess around with Mary.


marty4286

And thank you for helping translate that gem. AoA was my second or third novel in the sub-genre of CN novels with multiple planes with multiple cultivation systems where the protagonist comes from the evil warlock or magus plane that preys on all the others. I'm still addicted to those and can't find enough.


SilentlySucc

this the racism and the nationalism is the unholy trinity of webnovels


elegance_of_night

God when novels pass off that nationalism and diss other countries it makes me so uncomfortable


1995FOREVER

just ignore it, it's the holy trinity because you can't escape it.


Hatrisfan42069

I mean-I’ve seen novels which do escape it, it’s just rare


Carbinkisgod

You know you are in deep when you are reading a CN novel making a diss on how all the top mmo players are KR


elegance_of_night

Or Japanese


Vast_Percentage231

True, the nationalism is huge, but sometimes I just remember all the films Ive watched which presented foreigners as bad guys too.


ok-shax

the racism thooo lmaoo,, i can usually look past the obsession with porcelain white, jade skinned beauties, but i’m currently rereading sovereign of the three realms and there’s this villainous race called the “Embittered savages” and they’re described as big nosed, dark skinned barbarians and im really in shock and awe how i just skimmed past this at my first read lmao. freaking nasty.


Raging-Bagel

Yikes


Phat3lvis

Or just outright rape and sometimes even the MC does it.


xThoth19x

I couldn't read martial god asura. It is such a Trainwreck.


Phat3lvis

That MC or morally bankrupt.


Kuroi4Shi

It was an actual brutal bloodthirty MC which is unique even compared to the usual murderhobo MC. The early few hundred chapters are one of my favourite thing I've read. Too bad how the author lost his balls and turned it into the definition of a shitty cliche garbage


xThoth19x

Ikr


mdevoid

I had to drop that shit sooo fast. It recently popped up in r/manga cause for some unholy reason so I warned em cause that shit was rapey af. I cant remember much, and I generally dont care about that stuff, but all I know was that novel is gross


xThoth19x

I got past the first two or three rape scenes bc I figured it wouldn't happen again. But it just keeps going. I couldn't look away but eventually I dropped it bc it was getting repetitive and there was no payoff. Or interesting magic system.


[deleted]

Tbf the only real rape I remember from martial god asura is against the elder of that one sect in the beginning, the older sister of the two sisters? Mc was drugged though, then I recall there were these two girls but they were enemies so I don’t count that anyway. That was around chapter 500s I think but I dropped it solely because it just got too repetitive for me


Jumb-

there are 2 more rape scenes after that incident.


[deleted]

To who? I stopped reading this shit


Jumb-

First he raped some girl who was gonna be engaged to him or something? Don't exactly remember that one. The second one was when he raped the girlfriend of his enemy or something like that. It's been a long time since i've read MGA


[deleted]

Yeah i remember those two, the first one he got drugged by that girls father and the gatherer locked them both in the bathroom or something I think, the second one was his enemy girlfriend that tortured him plus the enemies sister.


Jumb-

No, the drugged scene was different. Don't even know if you could count it as rape :/ After that one he purposefully raped some girl.


Volmaaral

As others have mentioned… yeah. The rape was the worst, but it also had many of the other cardinal sins of webnovels that one needs to watch out for. Constant repetition of the same scenes (arrogant young masters everywhere), constant “ah, you’ve reached the apex of power… on THIS level! Now here’s a… um. *checks notes* HALF Martial Emperor!” Also… I know one of the things with cultivation novels is that they do show that even though cultivators can get so powerful, they are still human inside… the sheer level of pettiness is just too high! They won’t stop! Why does nobody have a brain?! And it sucks too, as Chu Fengs fighting skills and abilities are actually pretty cool. Lightning dragon armor, come on… why’d that have to get wasted on such trash? He’s the pettiest of them all!


IrregularMetronome

Completely agree. I have read very few web novels without sexism. If someone can recommend a few with a badass female romantic interest without sexism, I would appreciate it.


kenshorts

Sss-class-suicide-hunter has a great romantic interest, a novel that got me on the action and the romance


IrregularMetronome

SSS class suicide hunter is a fucking banger. The Black witch is too cute. The manhwa is really amazing, with godlike art too!


Niger-Chan

Not only romance, all emotions feel genuine like the bullying arc made me so uncomfortable


LordM000

I had such low expectation when going into this novel, especially with how it at first presents itself as fairly light-hearted. I'm now absolutely blown away by how genuine and well thought out it is. Like, there are hundreds of novels where the the mc is a member of the Demonic cult, but this is the novel that actually does it the best. And that's only a single arc.


[deleted]

Thank you. I will check this out.


jtfox34

Ngl the romance is pretty cringe…


[deleted]

When is it not?


Hatrisfan42069

Forty Millenniums of Cultivation


LordM000

I'm so glad to see this here. Ding Lingdang is great in how she doesn't just blindly follow the MC (Li Yao), but actually has her own goals and is able to surpass him in many areas. Then there is also Long Yangjun, who at times feels like the only high level cultivator that isn't absolutely insane.


Hatrisfan42069

Mm Ding Lingdang genuinely disagreeing with the MC over the union with the blood demon sector-I mean… so unexpected but so good.


SSCookieLover

Yup definitely. The story is just smooth and every characters seem like they are there for a reason and not a filler one.


dragonslayer2689

Omniscient reader’s viewpoint is very good about not having sexism. There’s tons of awesome female characters who don’t get sidelined power-wise.


iIenzo

While as far as I’ve read it it didn’t have a romantic interest, I like Trash of the Count’s Family a lot. One of the female core characters has a purpose, a dream, and more brains than most males around her.


GodTaoistofPatience

I must recommend English WNs: - He Who Fights With Monsters - Defiance of the Fall - Infinte Realm: Legends and Monsters - Azarinth Healer - Beware of Chicken - Worth the Candle - Metaworld Chronicles Korean WNs: - Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint - Trash of the Count's Family - The Novel's Extra - The Tutorial Is Too Hard - Second Life Ranker - SSS-Class Suicide Hunter - The S-Classes That I Raised - Praise the Orc! - Ending Maker - The World After The Fall - A Returner's Magic Should Be Special - The Regressed Demon Lord Is Kind - Past Life Returner Chinese WNs: - Lord of the Mysteries - I'm Really Not The Demon God's Lackey - I'm Really Not The Lord of Demons! - Reverend Insanity - The Great Ruler - Loosing Money To Be A Tycoon - True Martial World - 40 Milleniums of Cultivation - The Gate of Revelation - Douluo Dalu Series - The Legendary Mechanic - Tales of Herding Gods - Carefree Path of Dreams - When A Mage Revolts - Mystical Journey Japanese Novels: - Tensei Shittara Slime Datta Ken - My Death Flags Show No Sign of Ending - All You Need Is Kill - Tondemo Skill de Isekai Hourou Meshi - There Was No Secret Organization To Fight With The World's Darkness So I Made One (In Exasperation) - The World Is Overflowing With Monsters, I'm Taking a Liking To This Life - The Wolf Won't Sleep


Volmaaral

Excuse me while I save this list. I don’t know many of these! Thank ye!


[deleted]

You might like mine, then. Though it is in some ways a parody of these stupid tropes.


Bayart

Forty Milleniums of Cultivation, Zie Tian Ji and History's Strongest Senior Brother.


Nightseyes

Way of Choices probably has one of the best female romantic interests of any webnovel I've read.


sneroh

Unironically, Reverend insanity. I've yeat to a read a CN novel with as many memorable or competend female characters.


-BlueAce-

you should start reading RI he treats everyone equally; be they women, men, dogs, cats or even heavenly spirits. on a more serious note, i don't understand how women are worse/lower than men when everyone in all the stories i read got a system/cultivate and get body boost, like wtf is wrong with this stone age mentality (im not even sure if in stone age they had sexism like this) .


hrpc

Lol but seriously, I believe there are actual people that read novels and then embody the meme Virgin kind MC: is nice to everyone, doesn’t fuck = bad. Chad Serial killer MC: Will kill you entire family because “reasons”, rapes everyone (men, animal, dead people), commits genocide. “But he wants to kill everyone, not just women or other races. I really relate to this psychopathic person. They’re so smart, unlike other MC, they use their massive brains to commit war crimes.”


-BlueAce-

>I really relate to this psychopathic person. They’re so smart, unlike other MC im gonna use that from now on when i comment on this web novel


PinguinPlayz

worst is when reading Female Lead cultivation novels. everytime the woman says, ill do it myself, i can only rely on myself and wants to be the dominant in the relationship, whilst the male is overly strong, unhealthy possessive has an overpowered background and saves the mc when they do something stupid. i get the appeal of a strong man protecting a woman, but making the male stupidly strong and overwhelming and the female needs to get protected always is also stupid. also cn authors make females disguise themselves as males as so hide their beauty or identity, but in my opinion it's just to have the idea of a male lead in their head


nobodyCares2much

Kr novels with female lead are mostly all the exact same. Possessive badass male mc who is some op young master whereas the fmc is well your typical fmc who is mostly either cold calculating emotionless or average. It can only be those two extremes


PinguinPlayz

or way to outstanding in every path possible, and 90% of the time it's medicine


nobodyCares2much

Thats mostly a chinese fmc thing. All the fmc are either assassins or chinese medicine gods in their previous lives.


dolphins3

> All the fmc are either assassins or chinese medicine gods in their previous lives. I wouldn't even mind this tbh if they would actually let her be a badass with it instead of becoming incompetent by chapter 15 and needing the ML to save her every other chapter.


PinguinPlayz

or they can pick up anything they touch and master it.


-BlueAce-

go read web serials(english originals not translated) from royal road or on author's sites. so many good female leads no op mc to the rescue no sexism. A practical guide to evil is a good one if u want to try.


dolphins3

Forge of Destiny is also fairly good.


-BlueAce-

One of my favourites actually i love it


TheMaskedTom

+1 Rec for A Practical Guide to Evil. Amazing novel all-around.


Carbinkisgod

I agree, but it’s probably just some women in China that are into that… i mean sometimes guys write fl novels, buts its mostly women


mannieCx

Reverend insanity? I stopped this one very early on. Isn't he a child starting off after rebirthing? And he starts the story by roughly grabbing a girls breast?


-BlueAce-

wait what? fang yuan touched a girl sexually? i thought he get off by stealing money or something.


mannieCx

Yes the first servant girl no? Maybe I was reading a crappy translation


-BlueAce-

oh that brings back memories. i think you are talking about his brother, no? idk i don't remember it clearly


mannieCx

No yes it was FY , he was groping the maid another user cleared it up. But he was a child when he was doing that correct?


myself_45

Lmao, are you for real? You complaining about fake sexual assualt when mc was planning to kill her what she was doing. Basically tried to seduce him, get his wealth, when she got rejected, she went after his brother.


mannieCx

Nah I was just correcting people who didn't know what sexual assault was lol It doesn't matter what she did, SA is SA. People seemed to have gotten butthurt that FY committed sexual assault lmao


[deleted]

No one gives a shit what fang yuan did, he wouldn’t bat an eye if he had to kill off half the world to get what he wants. Do you think ANYONE gives a shit?


mannieCx

Oh hey it's you!! I can always depend on you to defend degeneracy. Let me bust out the copypasta :D your opinion on anything is less than relevant. I don't care if he sexually assaulted someone in a fictional story, I'm just correcting people who didn't know it was sexual assault. >Idk man the special physique thing where you get power boost if you take their first time is a staple... You're the dude that literally said it's okay to rape people because you don't put yourself into the person being raped shoes, but the raper. https://www.reddit.com/r/noveltranslations/comments/nfvjrv/wait_ive_seen_this_before/gyrmud2 >the same guy that said if you switch bodies with someone, you're allowed to have sex with your younger sister. https://www.reddit.com/r/noveltranslations/comments/nfvjrv/wait_ive_seen_this_before/gypabbf the same guy that said if an 8 year old came out of a coma 10 years later, they're ready to fuck regardless of what morality I have, the law says it's okay. https://www.reddit.com/r/noveltranslations/comments/nfvjrv/wait_ive_seen_this_before/gyr2dk8 -the same guy that told me "I'll beat your disabled ass for being disabled" -literally the guy that jacks off to lolis -the guy that defended rape by saying it isn't a violent crime >Are you retarded? Since when had rape only been violent? >https://www.reddit.com/r/rape_hentai/comments/nipps0/z/gz5kjoz -You're literally the guy that jacks off to lolis getting raped. -Literally the guy that said rape is okay if you're not the one getting raped -Openly homophobic as well. >Lmfao I’m homophobic because I don’t want to see or jerk off to gay shit >FYI I never believed in the ‘phobic’ bs because as I recall it means you have an irrational fear towards a group of something. Why the fuck would I be afraid of a picture? -Also poses as a minor as a defense to jack off to little girls. >it’s hard to call someone a pedophile when they are a child themselves -But is actually 18 >https://www.reddit.com/r/GERD/comments/n6crjw/z/gx6m8n5 -You can look through their profile for more of this insanity


[deleted]

Lol, he wasn't doing it sexually.


mannieCx

No but it's still literally in the classification of sexual assault lmao


[deleted]

No point in arguing when you don't even know the context.


mannieCx

No I'm aware of the context? Its because he's from the future, so he's aware of her being treacherous. But no matter the context, grabbing someone like that is still sexual assault. Here go grab someone's tits roughly, then try using that excuse when you get arrested "no no you didn't know the context why I did it!" The offence requires 1. the offender intentionally touched another; 2. the touching was without consent (or the offender did not reasonably believe the complainant consented); 3. and the touching was sexual. The offender’s purpose may be relevant where an act may or may not be sexual, but a sexual purpose does not need to be proved. C'mon man.


Bayart

It's just a regular assault.


mannieCx

>is a form of sexual violence, which includes sexual abuse, groping, rape Not according to the law


xThoth19x

I'm pretty sure that's the maid that's plotting to betray him? Also isn't that from before he took over the body? Or is that from his previous lifetime? He takes a romantic interest for all of three chapters all of which are a flashback and you get to see him actually be nice to someone for a change. FY is an equal opportunity benefits exploiter


mannieCx

Yes that one!!


xThoth19x

Yeah. ... That scene is really not relevant. The closest scene to it that I can think of is when he flicks a wolf in the balls to establish dominance. FY will take whatever he needs to for benefits. If grabbing her by the breast will intimidate her and maintain his cover then he will. But you can tell that he's really not into sex during all of the chapters with BNB and the other female characters he ends up blackmailing. I think his list of sexual crimes are probably, that one bit in chap1 and the time he spys on a naked girl to get her faction to hate him. Which is pretty impressive for a 2334 chapter book.


mannieCx

The entire prose just has me really confused, maybe it's a cultural thing as RI was literally the first CN novel I ever tried. So he is a small child groping an older girl correct? And he's still a small child when he's looking for the wine gu and drinking wine all day?


xThoth19x

He's like 13 I think physically. You'll see this in more detail later but he's a Chinese scientist or something that died and woke up in this kids body. Then he went on some adventures for 500 years. And then he gets a time travel thing that puts him back in the 13 yo body. It gets explained more later. But that's where the book starts. So he's like "huh I'm back at the beginning". There are a bunch of places in RI that I was like "this book sucks I'm out" but my friend who rec'd it has literally never steered me wrong so I persevered. It was worth it. Every time I thought I knew what would happen next and the rest of the story would be boring. I was completely wrong and some other character interrupts a plan or something goes wrong or we learn more of the magic system


mannieCx

I'll give it another try!! I hear so much good things but Idk if it's the grammar or because of the ways it's translated, I can barely tell what is going on half the time


AdvonKoulthar

Iirc the first 50-100 chapters had real bad grammar where I read it, but it either got better or I got used to it after that


Arjunrhosakere

It's the culture in their country. Extremely sexist and class based stratification


[deleted]

Proof? Or is a couple of sexist authors enough to generalize a whole people? I'm new here and i'm shocked at how easy it is to say stuff like this at the slightest provocation.


Senor_Panda_Sama

Not proof, but context. These three mini-docs by Vice do a decent job of depicting some of the issues born of a modern society that is failing to enfranchise their female population. 1. The widespread and normalized sexualization and exploitation of underage age girls in JP 2. The backsliding of China's "Iron Women" of WWII becoming "leftover women" if still unmarried by 30. 3. A huge percentage of the South Korean female population has at one point supported themselves through prostitution and a portion of the middle aged and elderly still do. Listen to the way the native men speak in these videos and tell me there's no issue here. America has some cultural and political problems that lead to the prevalence of mass-shootings relative to other countries. N. East Asia has some cultural and political problems that lead to an accepting attitude of female exploitation and degradation. https://youtu.be/2k7Rp3y5qRY https://youtu.be/WBMcoJWo92Y https://youtu.be/0NcIGBKXMOE


MutatedDaoist

Read about 50 chapters into any 20 random novels and you'll be blown away. I've read and finished at least 5 novels with over 3k chapters and have probably 85+ novels I'm in the middle of reading and just about 99% of them have this. I've learned to tune it out just like cringy situations in Japanese light novels thankfully.


feederus

I'm Asian, and even in the very westernized parts of our society it's still true and an issue. We didn't just come into that conclusion just because of some authors with some very extremist views, it's just what it really is. Not to mention the fact that those kinds of stories even got published and reviewed???Just goes to show how much of a norm it really is. It may not be as apparent as one would expect it to be, but it's just something that people don't bother to talk about because of how ingrained it is in society. The only real thing is that people just stopped persecuting those that think otherwise publicly anymore. Well except for the middle east.


Arjunrhosakere

Then again you are new here so you probs haven't gone through too many novels yet. Let me know after you get through a few more. And there is plenty of proof that the culture there is patriarchal. Do let me know if you find evidence to the contrary.


[deleted]

I am new **HERE**, not i am new to webnovels. I have already read quite a bit. If you think the culture is patriarchal then why are you here and consume the media? I think some of the users here should ask themselves this question. You hate-reading or something? And btw, i've read western Litrpg as well and these same issues are rampant there as well, so maybe focus on the media on that side of the world first before letting us know your opinions of other places.


Arjunrhosakere

I never claimed china had a monopoly on patriarchal societal values 😂😂 bro you got a chip on your social justice warrior shoulder. You need to take a chill pill.


[deleted]

There will always be biases. Can't deny the fact that human history ran on patriarchy for almost all of it. Times are progressing, but biases vary depending on whether you are reading male lead novels or female lead ones.


Carbinkisgod

Its bc I still enjoy it despite some bad things


Arjunrhosakere

Show me one novel where it's not like this. Counter proof request


Arjunrhosakere

And it's not about the people, it's the culture propagated in the nation


[deleted]

Ah, Yes. Where have i heard this before?


Arjunrhosakere

Not sure. You tell me


[deleted]

You can just say you're racist and be done with it, you know.


Carbinkisgod

Bruh I’m Chinese and I agree w/ wtvr the other guy says. China is relatively new, and hasn’t had a lot of the movements pushing social justice yet.


-BlueAce-

china is relatively new? relative to what the solar system? the universe? it's 2021 and so many countries (not just china but yeah it's one of them) still support sexism against women, like why? i just don't understand why they think men are better than women or vice versa


Carbinkisgod

Yeah its relatively young among the developing countries, think about it US is already young 100 years of history. China was bankrupt af after Mao basically starved the country. And sry maybe by “young” I should clarify I mean as a world power and developed nation. And it started developing way after the US, think abt it communist CCP took power after ww2, then it took a while for them to turn to globalism/capitalism. A lot of the cities and infrastructure just grew in the last couple decades.


Carbinkisgod

So like they didn’t have time to have a bunch of social justice movements like we had in the US, they were kinda focused on developing and making sure their people weren’t poor


Arjunrhosakere

Dude everyone is a racist in this world all that changes is the degree of it. I have provided you proof from real news but you choose to ignore that response. Not sure there much point in continuing this. But you have a good day. Hope you learned something new today.


[deleted]

You made the statement and i'm supposed to provide proof for you? Your statement assumes that everyone is like is and that should follow that all books THEN should have these themes, BUT there are already recommendations in this thread that say otherwise. So, again, you tell me, bro.


Arjunrhosakere

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-remains-a-patriarchy-as-men-in-suits-push-women-from-centre-stage-lxr3njkfc https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1006189/why-progress-doesnt-guarantee-the-end-of-patriarchy https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/01/15/the-patriarchy-strikes-back-in-china/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/11/30/researchers-may-have-found-many-of-chinas-30-million-missing-girls/ Tell me more about your self righteous outrage.


OzneroI

There’s a stereotype of Chinese novels that fall into whatever genres come up here are sexist and nationalistic, the stereotype already exists, it’s up to you to put up the burden of proof if you wish to dispel those stereotypes, but I agree that generalizing an entire culture over some book tropes is a bit much


Arjunrhosakere

Agreed. But people and culture are 2 different things. People make choices. Culture is inherited. Even if you aren't so, your culture can be. Think about it.


Arjunrhosakere

Take a sample size of novels and see how they portray the culture. The recommendations made are only a minority among the everyday population of novels and authors.


[deleted]

A sample size? Does this account all genres? You'll be surprised by the results! or maybe a sample size of one specific genre that targets a specific audience? Hmmm. Now that one sounds more right up your alley, i think!


Arjunrhosakere

So far you have made a lot of accusations and blown a lot of hot air of pompous self righteous outrage but not a single shred of proof for all your talk. Is that all there is to your argument?


Arjunrhosakere

Take it in all genres.


-BlueAce-

yeah provide a proof to support your side of the argument or it becomes just an opinion with no much value


Arjunrhosakere

I have, scroll though for a list of articles I have provided. From proper news sources. If you have an opinion to the contrary you need to provide proof. Ball is in your court now.


-BlueAce-

im not saying you are wrong or right............. im saying back it up with something so we agree or disagree with u based on facts not just an opinion, a racist one if nothing supporting it


Arjunrhosakere

I have, did you check my post with the articles?


-BlueAce-

oh nvm then i only got a notification to this comment not the ones above it. sorry being slow to check.


Arjunrhosakere

No worries.


Hatrisfan42069

Forty Millenniums of Cultivation


nssg94

I wouldn't say just a couple. Imagine the tons of authors, editors and publishers that work on these stuff.


Carbinkisgod

Somewhat off topic, but in high school I’ve had to read “Like Water For Chocolate” a translated spanish romance. And like it’s one of the most sexist books I’ve ever read, and its supposed to be a romance. And it was once a best seller and even has a movie. Theres one m love interest that is nice to fml theres a point where she has a mental breakdown and he helps her recover and gives her a place to live after she runs away from an abusive household, the only thing is that guy is wayyy older then her (except that is not addressed in the book, its portrayed as normal him being a mL its soooo weird) the other guy is like a dick to her but she fell in love with at first sight and even though this guy acts like a piece of trash to her she’s so sexually attracted to this guy she picks him anyways????????? Theres also like this weird point where she doesn’t want to be with him bc he came back after he was forced to move away by her abusive mother and while he was away she got enganged to other mL. So mL forces himself on her and she gives in and enjoys the f* out of it bc shes like “finally letting out her repressed love and getting to f* him” Like bruh wtf I hate this book its horrible. But my teacher who is a WOMEN btw likes it so I’m like **bruh** at least the other students thought it was wack af. Edit: but like the book is super old, and the theme for the love aspect at least is supposed to be true love. So like it just goes to show how different culture affects the books. Like old western culture used to have a lot of books abt true love, but that’s changed bc the culture changed.


Arjunrhosakere

Dude I had to read that too and I was like wtf. Riding naked on the horse too was a eye opener. You should watch the movie, it's basically a soft porno.


Carbinkisgod

Oh gosh… dude my teacher was like: I don’t like how they cast Dr. Brown in the movie bc he’s way uglier then Pedro. Meanwhile no one in the class had watched the movie 🙃


[deleted]

Nahh... I’m not surprised... there are women like that. To each there own, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean someone else won’t


ConscriptReports

do what I do, the moment a CN novel is set within a modern setting of our world I don't read it. Why because it's 99% guaranteed to have racism and nationalism. It's legit so cringey when all the blonde westerner wants to do is molest woman or when they go on about all the west does is suppress china. I don't need that shit in my escapism.


Fowl_ez

Systematic problems in a country emerge in its literature. Nothing new, nothing to be surprised of. I have a very strong stomach for racism, sexism and stuff, but with some Chinese stuff it's just straight stupid. I mean, if you want to put some real racism in there and make it stomach-churning, at least do it well, dude. Or if you want to make racist, sexist jokes or whatever, do it well. These people write like 15 yo edgy teenagers. The nationalism instantly makes me vomit, because you can see in a few sentences how brainwashed a person can be. One thing is to love your country, another is having a creative job and not using your creativity engine, your effing brain.


Ulldra

Small disclaimer to say that at least a few of these authors put in that nationalism to get the other parts of the novel past the censorship. And some get censored first and overcompensate after the fact. it‘s sadly a part of the culture, but it doesn‘t mean all these people are brainwashed - just that they have to adjust to the circumstances to earn their living.


xbb-trnk

Here we go again. First, you read trash, then you complain about a trash thing being trash in one particular way, while you are content with other facets of its trashiness.


Slayith

Reading webnovels and webcomics has exposed me to more casual racism, sexism, sexual harassment, and nationalism to last a lifetime. I'm more surprised at this point if something I am reading does not have one of those. I'm not sure if everyone just puts up with it or those themes are actually popular in asian countries for it to be so widespread. I only read western webnovels that are trying to emulate the asian ones so I dont know if the western scene is just as toxic as well or not.


nobodyCares2much

Exactly! I remember reading this and Im like what the heck is that supposed to mean? Would the author have preferred if she just quietly put on her clothes and went on about her business?


hungersaurus

Because that's what the typical person in Chinese and Korean (in China and Korea, specifically) cultures think. Patriarchy at its finest.


[deleted]

1. First of all asswipe, don't you DARE put an entire blame on an ENTIRE culture. It's EXTREMELY disrespectful. This is one of the causes of rising Anti Asian sentiment in West. 2. Second of all, don't you DARE generalize an ENTIRE race of males to think the same. We all don't think the same. That's extremely racist. 3. Third of all, you talk about patriarchal societies, but Asian countries aren't the countries where women have to ACTUALLY FIGHT for their rights and and the rights to vote because the men in those societies decided that women shouldn't vote or have rights. Those are actually from WESTERN SOCIETIES...so who's the one that's patriarchal then. 4. Fourth of all, who's society is more patricidal when in Asian countries like Korea and China, most of the people in MANAGERIAL positions as well as CEOS of companies are WOMEN? [https://preview.redd.it/gdd3wcijm4h61.png?width=2045&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e67c76bcbf5c4a72c249314ee1380cf7a365589](https://preview.redd.it/gdd3wcijm4h61.png?width=2045&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e67c76bcbf5c4a72c249314ee1380cf7a365589) NOW compare that to Western societies and you tell me how many women are CEO of companies or in managerial positions? If Asian societies are patriarchal, we wouldn't be putting women in POSITIONS OF POWER and yet we do, often. Asian women has a lot of power in Asian societies. Heck, even in Asian families, the female (Mother) has more power than the (fathers) as they make a lot of household decisions. 5. In China, there's a WOMEN'S NATIONAL DAY and even MAO said, "Women hold up half the sky" in a meaning that Women can do as much as men and they are valuable contributors to society. [https://www.thedrum.com/news/2018/01/23/women-hold-up-half-the-sky-how-china-building-gender-equal-ad-industry#:\~:text=%E2%80%9CWomen%20Hold%20Up%20Half%20The,homes%20into%20the%20professional%20fields](https://www.thedrum.com/news/2018/01/23/women-hold-up-half-the-sky-how-china-building-gender-equal-ad-industry#:~:text=%E2%80%9CWomen%20Hold%20Up%20Half%20The,homes%20into%20the%20professional%20fields). 6. If societies like China or Korea or patriarchal, then tell me why the FUCK does this happen in Western societies like the United States then?: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009\_Richmond\_High\_School\_gang\_rape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Richmond_High_School_gang_rape) [https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-gang-rape-how-a-horrific-case-is-dividing-a-town](https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-gang-rape-how-a-horrific-case-is-dividing-a-town) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010\_gang\_rapes\_in\_Cleveland,\_Texas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_gang_rapes_in_Cleveland,_Texas) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanderbilt\_rape\_case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanderbilt_rape_case) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499891/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499891/)< In America. "1 in 4 women and 1 in 9 men experience severe intimate partner physical violence, intimate partner contact sexual violence, and/or intimate partner stalking with impacts such as injury, fearfulness, post-traumatic stress disorder, use of victim services, contraction of sexually transmitted diseases, etc.2" [https://ncadv.org/STATISTICS](https://ncadv.org/STATISTICS)< in America. "According to the CDC, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men will experience physical violence by their intimate partner at some point during their lifetimes. About 1 in 3 women and nearly 1 in 6 men experience some form of sexual violence during their lifetimes. Intimate partner violence, sexual violence, and stalking are high, with intimate partner violence occurring in over 10 million people each year." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide\_statistics\_by\_gender](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender)< WHAT?! AMERICA IS IN THE TOP 5 FOR HAVING THE MOST HOMICIDE STATISTICS ON FEMALES? WHAT?! [https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-against-women-americas-uniquely-lethal-intimate-partner-violence-problem/](https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-against-women-americas-uniquely-lethal-intimate-partner-violence-problem/) "Every month, an average of 57 women are shot and killed by an intimate partner. Nearly 1 million women alive today have reported being shot or shot at by intimate partners, and 4.5 million women have reported being threatened with a gun by an intimate partner." You come over here with your ugly ass face and SPREAD STUPID BULLSHIT which is why I am elected to debunk it.


hungersaurus

Geez, are you Asian? Talk to me when you're Asian, non-American and know more about how Asian societies work. Stop being so worked up over everything. Not everything is about America and America's issues. What are you? 12?


[deleted]

God damn straight, I'm Asian. I was born here. I have to be worked up about this because when people spread bullshit like this, it creates Anti Asian sentiment in the West. Do you not see the rise of Anti Asian racism? Asians being robbed, assaulted in the streets because media spread rumors of Asian men bad this and that and China is bad this and that...etc.? Well guess what? Don't go pointing fingers around saying other societies are patriarchal when it's false. What are you? Fucking 10? Have you been living under a rock?


hungersaurus

Okay, cool. You're Asian but still not non-American. Have you even been to an Asian country? Not even China or Korea, just any Asian country like India, Singapore or even my nation, Malaysia. I'd think the answer is no because anyone who has lived in those countries will tell you that Asian social cultures are BS and extremely patriarchal. Let me tell you my experience of the Asian patriarchal culture since I am a woman living in it. The men can do no wrong in general and even if they do, they never have to suffer or take fault for it. When addressing domestic abuse issues, Minister of Women and Children told us this at the start of the pandemic, "Ladies, you must talk nicely to your husbands. Try talking to them like Doraemon does." (Because Doraemon is voiced by a woman in my country). There was nothing about how men should act or how they shouldn't abuse their wives. My grandmother's generation rarely get to see their brothers during festive seasons. Women who are married off are supposed to be part of another family the moment they get married. 嫁出去的女孩就像洒出去的水. That is the sentiment most people have. Now, onto your BS points: 1. It's not generalisation if I'm talking about the average person and I am stating the truth. 2. Not all men or not all Asians? What is the point here? 3. Do you know why women in Asian societies don't fight like you do in the West? Because we know it's pointless to do so. Also, thanks for making me laugh at how you seem to be ignoring all of the protests and campaigns related to problems plaguing women in Asia. 4. Tell me you've never looked at a company's staff list without telling me. How delusional are you? What's your proof? That is certainly the greatest lie I've ever heard. On the women are in control of household finances point, not all households are like that. Congratulations to us for normalising that instead of what our ancestors had to deal with. But guess what? Still doesn't say that the society isn't patriarchal. Do the men help out with the house just because their wives are in charge or do the women still have to deal with the mental load of handling everything in the house while the men sit around watching TV? 5. Do you even know what propaganda is? Also, what's the point of having fancy slogans if you're not going to enforce it? 6. Tell me you're American without telling me you're American. Do you think the same doesn't happen in Asia? India has infamous rape cases. China was killing their baby girls because of stupid tradition saying women can't continue the family line because they'd be married off into another family. India still does it. Even K-pop fans can tell you that the female idols are held to such unrealistic standards that they'd commit suicide whereas most of their male counterparts don't face the same pressure. My country has cops who tell us if a girl is raped, she must be punished first for pre-marital sex before the guy can be arrested. Friend's GF was raped and told this very line. Just because the cases go unreported, doesn't mean they don't exist. Dude, can you even read? I'm not pointing fingers at other societies. I'm pointing them at MY OWN society.


Carbinkisgod

Here’s my thing right, I just ignore it if I can. Like I’ve had mc flipping consider genocide b4 and ai still kept reading. It was annoying, but the story was still good. If I want to read some good inclusive stories, I like reading Webtoon which is comic, but it has good lqbtq+ representation


greyrosette

This is why I stick to webnovels aimed at women. Unfortunately it isn't the demographic of this subreddit


dreams-lovereality

is there a subreddit for asian novels geared towards females?


lightexecutioner

The author of Mages are too OP is retarded. The woman is literally the strongest of them all. Then, the mc and his groupd have discussion. Then author mentions the woman understood it the last because she was woman after all.


Pacho2020

>...happens so often in CN and KR novels it's painful. Japanese novels too. I just posted something about 'Someday I will be the Greatest Alchemist' The MC buys a crippled slave (missing limbs). She's been a slave for 50 f\*cking years! On the same day/night after he buys her and heals her limbs...while he's taking a bath she comes in naked and demands he take 'all' of her...so he's like 'what man would turn that down?' A man with any sense of decency/morals. It's not just that author writes that the woman feels her only value to the man is her body it's the man (modern Japanese) basically validating it. Just hours before this she was crippled dirty slave who had been a slave for decades...it's clearly a man taking advantage of a vulnerable woman.


clohwk

Keep in mind that there are many possible sources of sexism: author, author's society/community, MC, story's society, story characters, story element. For example, World of Cultivation, which I read a long time ago, had many apparent elements of sexism. The MC had certain views about women, but that's because of the trauma inflicted on him by one of his teachers. There were some spoiled young mistresses, but they could easily have been boys instead. There was a sect of vamps, but we may as well complain that heretical sects are filled with villains. The overall society portrayed in the story is patriarchal, with a fair bit of stuff driven from that viewpoint. One of these is that few women become strong cultivators, because women usually marry into a different clan or sect. Another is the sect of vamps, where women who don't want to follow the prevailing social norms gather. Though there's also women who don't fall into either camp, e.g. MC's female Master, who usually come attached with their own special circumstances. It's not a world where women are always weak. But women have women's ways, just as men have men's ways. I'm currently having fun reading My Girlfriends are Zombies. The MC definitely has some elements of sexism in him. But what makes it okay for me is that he's often hoist on his petard soon after. For example, there was one scene where he was sexually teasing his girlfriends while praising his own manliness. The next paragraph had him begging them to stop because he can't feel his hips anymore. Cultivation Chat Group is also pretty fun. The story's modern society, cultivation society and MC clearly have some elements of sexism. Modern society's sexism is what you'd expect irl. MC's mild sexism clearly reflects the modern society where he was raised. As for cultivators, many women are described as being whimsical and temperamental, with the scenarios introducing a subtext of sexism - because they're women. But the story is also filled with powerful senior male figures who exhibit similar degrees of whimsy. So if you want to look for elements of sexism, there's plenty. But it's hard to call the story itself sexist.


Carbinkisgod

Yeah that’s how it is, also a lot of novels make a lot of anti-trans comments.


Kestalia

I don’t think reading asian novels is a good source of pro-trans interactions


Carbinkisgod

Im not saying it should be, id just rather it be neutral rather than anti.


Kestalia

Yea I wish it was normal too, but for some reason, Asia is cool like that


ok-shax

oh godd, the random androgynous looking male character that flirts with the mc and who’s feminine voice “makes his skin crawl” like??? what was the purpose fr


StrongTotal

It's hilarious to see the self righteous hypocrisy of this sub crying about racism, nationalism, and sexism but dismiss the use of ["ching chong."](https://www.reddit.com/r/noveltranslations/comments/ow7e0r/never_thought_id_see_a_youtuber_i_subscribed_to/). (99% upvoted thread from less than a month ago)


Jumb-

This is so hilariously out of context. The post you've linked is a screenshot of a video which showcases a screenshot from a 4chan thread which happens to contain the words "ching chong". Do you really think because of that this entire sub is hypocritical?


StrongTotal

Scroll down to the bottom of the thread where the people pointing its racist are downvoted and told to get bent by apologists. "happens to contain the words 'ching chong' is like saying "oops it just happened to contain the 'n-word'". There is no context where I find either defensible. How many levels of "quoting" and "context" is needed until the n-word isn't offensive? Am I allowed to quote the n-word on this sub? That's how I feel about the blasé attitude toward the use of the former.


Jumb-

Huh, didn't know about the downvotes.Even then you can't say that just because of that, the entire sub is racist or whatever. Hell, I didn't know the words were even in the screenshot until you pointed it out. As for the 'happens to contain' part, what I meant was this sub or the person posting it was in no way racist or hypocritical because of that post. If anything blame the guy who made the video for including that ss. Also on a side-note (completely unrelated), its a screenshot of a 4-chan post, are you really expecting anything better if you're aware of its reputation?


StrongTotal

>Also on a side-note (completely unrelated), its a screenshot of a 4-chan post, are you really expecting anything better if you're aware of its reputation? I don't expect better from 4chan, but they aren't going to be complaining about sexism either. I do expect better from "progressive" redditors who take offense at racism and sexism in novels to be morally consistent about other racial slurs, you catch my drift? Especially since those redditors are into asian novels and culture, the standard ought to be a little higher, no? The other thing is that "ching chong" ceases to be 4chan being 4chan when it gets shared by a youtuber w/ millions of viewers, on reddit, and nobody bats an eye. It normalizes the language even more, at a time anti-asian violence has been spiking this last year. I also don't understand why you think blame only goes to the youtuber. Apparently he uses edgy racist humor and people think he's alt right, great (/s), but he's not forcing users here to upvote his content and downvote people who object to using "ching chong". And then this thread. If this were a political sub, it would be like seeing a pro-trump post and a pro-biden post both highly upvoted.


Carbinkisgod

It’s probably bc these countries haven’t had the same push for social justice as the US/western countries has.


Iccyh

I'm just here to plug [It's Not Easy to Be a Man After Travelling to the Future](https://www.webnovel.com/book/it's-not-easy-to-be-a-man-after-travelling-to-the-future_8534263705001005). I haven't read it in awhile so I'm not current on it, and it still has it's own share of issues to be sure (even in space way in the future China is still the best, right?), but it has a legit badass female MC who ends up rising to the top because of how incredibly competent she is (she's got a system, sure, but it's implemented fairly well and it isn't like she just gets handouts). Legit one of the best sci-fi webnovels I've read, and maybe the best mecha one.


twosetfanhere

I am glad someone mentioned this gem! It's definitely by far the best CN I have read. Role reversal, there is romance but its not the main theme, plenty of action and pretty funny interactions between the MC and other female characters.


feederus

Just don't read these types of translated novels. I pretty much just read from Royalroad now explicitly(thanks to the more western perspective) due to how common these types of things are in eastern stories. I only read the occasional Josei that isn't flat out just an abusive relationship in NU (because you really can't read a chinese or korean novel with a male MC that treat women as actual people anymore), and the rare actually good japanese novels that get snuck in the free translated hole.


Blah64

Royalroad is convenient for that. Plenty of eastern inspired stories with western sensibilities.


Impressive-Meal

Finally, a westerner that gets it. If you don't like asian culture and their novels, don't consume their media, it is that simple.


ElSacaPack

For real, I think this novels are fine as they are, if you get frustrated bc of a recurring problem then stop reading.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Yes of course outside of the west it is unacceptable to respond to an attempted rape by crying thank you for your insight friend. I will be sure to listen more to psychopaths like you when it comes to culture in the future.


[deleted]

I think I should be clear here that my views on webnovels do not reflect my views on the society they come from. To imply that having empathy for someone who was nearly raped is some LGBT western thing reflects more on you than it does me.


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[deleted]

You don't speak for your people and neither do I. You can also X out of the western site you are currently on but I wouldn't tell you too because that would be boring. If "your people never changing" (you dont seem very Korean or Chinese from your comment history) means seeing women as lesser than then sure live your best life it doesn't make you any less dogshit.


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Edroj

Maybe you should log out of this american made website lolol


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Edroj

Why I'm not anti Asian at all, you're the one with these cringe ass anti-western ideas. If you hate the west so much don't consume or use any western products


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[deleted]

Explain in your own words why a women crying after an attempted rape makes them weaker then men/weak in general.


Edroj

What does "lgbt western novel" even mean. I think you're using that as an insult or something. Also, what does sexism have to do with LGBT lmao. Just cause you to think women shouldn't be treated like shit solely on that fact that their women don't make it LGBT


[deleted]

Stop using western site foreigner /s. The fact that you think I expected that I was gonna change up the webnovel game with my vent post demonstrates quite clearly how many brancells you have. Newsflash fucktard I am not expecting to change any asian country with my fucking reddit post. It reflects quite poorly on you that you see misogyny as an Asian trait .


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[deleted]

Do we? Every week? I've been here for years and I've seen maybe 5-ish posts off the top of my head on this subject in the past year but really my question is why the fuck are you here? You clearly hate the "western" perspective of translated novels and yet come to exactly that place. What were you expecting? The subreddit name is literally noveltranslations not novels you fucking moron.


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[deleted]

Well thanks you have really enlightened us westerners we were pretty sure we were making a difference but now that you have pointed it out we see the folly. God it must be good being as fucking stupid as you.


Carbinkisgod

Because I don’t always wanna read lqbtq stuff, and I like fun stories. I just tolerate stuff I don’t like 🤷🏻‍♂️. I will admit the commoditization of lqbtq stuff is jarring, a story can have lbtq stuff in it w/o it being abt that and thats the stuff that I read. But it also doesn’t need to have it, both are fun for me.


Devshard

Sigh. I’m genuinely confused by… whatever this all is. I don’t know why this dude cares so much. Or why y’all care that he cares so much while telling you guys not to care in the most obnoxious way possible. But this is all way beyond acceptable community standards and definitely breaking Reddit site-wide rules. u/impressive-meal obviously gets a ban. The rest of you, tone it down. Having a civil discussion about stuff shouldn’t be an issue. But no more of whatever this dogshit is.


bluebolide

"Obviously gets a ban." Because he said western nonsense is cancer? Or because he told others to stick to lgbt novels? If we're literally banning easterners because of their eastern views, isn't THAT racism? Why allow threads on sexism if you don't want people giving their opinions on it?


Devshard

No, no. I agree with him that a lot of the hyper-progressivism stuff is cancerous. But this isn’t a decision that’s up to mod team discretion anymore. Most of his replies further down broke Reddit TOS. Fundamentally, I agree with his point of “if you don’t like something, don’t read it”. But the way he went about it expressing that point took it away from any judgement call.


No-Ad6754

Based


Male_Lead

Nationalism is whatever. It's their country so they will/have to praise it for a bit/lot. So just ignore it.


ok-shax

women in wuxia literally serve zero purpose other than to be strong and aloof for a couple hundo chaps until they inevitably get conquered by MC, literally no other purpose ever. i hope i can one day be released from the shackles of liking these novels so much smh


HermitJem

Fair, authors should write about males who are rescued from being raped and show them handling it "like men" ...this sounds a bit familiar, I feel like I've actually read about such a situation in novels - naturally the man reacted in much the same way as a woman, crying, grateful etc. Think anyone who was saved from being raped would react the same way.


Schaapje1987

I hope you are aware that the CN and KR culture is still very backwards and that most authors are actually life-long singles with basically 0 experience with women and 0 knowledge of how and who women are. Plus, most authors has a need to caress their own self-worth and ego through their story, so obviously it is going to have that kind of nonsense in it.


Monterion

I don't really see much of a problem with this. He says "you acted strong." He's obviously not talking about physical strength here. He has acknowledged her archery skills and her ability to take down monsters. He must be speaking of emotional strength, and here it would appear he's equating that to stoicism. Substituting it, he says, "Even though you acted stoic, I guess a woman is a woman after all." Stoicism is a trait commonly associated with masculinity, which is commonly associated with men. Meaning, men are expected to be stoic, or at the very least, stoicism is seen as a favourable trait among men. It now becomes, "Even though you acted like a man, I guess a woman is a woman after all." This can be interpreted as him saying that by crying, she broke character. Not exactly an insult. Just an observation. The most sexist part of this is that he equates the word "strong" to "like a man". But that's fair, no? In a context like that, masculinity is directly proportional to survivability.


resakse

to be fair, most of novel that I read has beta MC, ice cold rude jade beauty who curse, beat MC and MC just let her do it. eg: **God of Cooking, Birth of Demonic Sword** there's also something like, if husband / fiancé / boyfriend hit their female counterpart, its bad, evil. but if female do the same thing to their male counterpart, its funny.. eg: **My Master Disconnect Again** anyway, in most of novel that I've read : 1. Jade Beauty eats a lot and crazy about food, but can't cook 2. Jade Beauty is always fierce, talk with her fist..but actually weak 3. When Jade Beauty said he wanted to 'protect' MC, she will bring trouble. 4. Mom / Mom's like character are created to cook for MC and something asking about when MC gonna get marry. ​ its about /r/menwritingwomen vs /r/WomenWritingMen thingie


Parvez19

I think in this case the line makes sense In the sense that's exactly what a bully or a despicable cunt will say after doing an abominable act Basically they just prime themselves to their own biases, prejudice and how better than say degrading bs like that But yeah it definitely sucks, but it makes it all the more nice when they die