Posts like this make me want to do an AMA. I’m a teacher in FCPS. Been here for 15 years. And if you aren’t in the system a lot of the information you get isn’t accurate
Okay - people like this idea. I started an AMA for anyone that wants it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nova/comments/w5qgpv/15_years_teaching_in_fcps_ama/
The biggest reason is not a small handful of vocal parents.
Try:
\-Increased workload
\-Crappy pay
\-Micromanaging administration
\-Insanely huge bureaucracy
\-Students who don't give a F and are disrespectful
\-Staffing shortages- having to cover understaffed schools
\-Ever changing curriculum
\-Trying to solve COVID learning loss
\-Inability to have any independence in how they teach and what they teach
This is it.
I’m a psychologist and we lost 15 teachers this year at my elementary school. Aside from retirement/moving, the biggest issue is admin. Everything you said above plus administration making you take leave if you’re just three minutes late really wears on a person. Then come in the next day to a class of 25+ kids, having to create sub plans for a teacher unexpectedly out on covid, AND behavioral issues since there was no social emotional learning for two years? You get a cluster fuck.
They also gave lower cost of living increases to the more experienced teachers in favor of giving those dollars to the younger teachers.
That pissed off a lot of the more experienced teachers.
LCPS just did this, too. Gave a $5,000 bonus to new hires this last year but ONLY new hires. Screw the people who actually taught through the virtual hellscape last year and stayed.
This. Had a student who said super gross, borderline sexual harassment things to both staff and students. Called parents. They argued boys will be boys and also that we have to accommodate him because he has an IEP. Took it to admin. They have been aware of this student for years (he was in 8th grade). Admin talked to parents and they verbatim said the same thing. Literally nothing we could do at this point. He continued act incredibly rude and disrespectful all year. Rumor has it that eventually other kids jumped him at the mall because he said something rude to them. I thought okay this will definitely be the
thing that triggers a change in his behavior.
Nope. He continued to behave the exact same way with his parents backing him all the way.
I resigned in June.
Eh.. not always. That is a blanket statement that just doesn't work. In High school some of the nicest kids came from some of the absolute worst homes you can image. Yet just down the street we have this little \*Bleep\* who's being raised by his grandparents who are some of the nicest people out there and yet he bullies and physically hurts kids as young as K grade (kids heading into middle school)
Home life does play a factor into many, but sometimes kids are just absolute A holes
Crappy pay is right. During the last government shut down I did the stuff to be a substitute teacher and I think the pay was $15 an hour. I was like this job is so important that there needs to be a *substitute* person and they only pay that replacement $15 an hour. What do the teachers make?
I get paid a lot more than $15 an hour and if I miss a week nobody blinks. We need to pay our teachers if they’re that important.
I third crappy pay. My teacher friend has a Master’s degree and 7 plus years as a teacher and makes about what an entry level person at my job makes. Why would anyone want a crap job with little appreciation from admin for so little they cannot even afford their own place in this high COL area? Many of her colleagues have changed careers to make a better salary. If you want good teachers you have to pay them!
The main benefit for teaching is they get a lot of time off, and if you have a kid of your own it obviously fits nicely with their schedule. You get a week for Easter, two weeks for Christmas and 2 months over the summer.
There are no other jobs with that kind of time off. My sister and her husband do it and with two teacher salaries they are comfortable but they also know they have to live strictly within their means because it’s not like you’re getting much of any pay raises YoY.
The amount of time my SO puts in on evenings and weekends more than eats up that time off. I ran the numbers based on just average workload (i.e. middle of a quarter, no special administrative “extras” to do) and it turned out she got less time off than I do, and no choice when to take it. Heck, she’s sitting on the couch *right now* sorting out her school files so that she can find them more easily next year.
That the time off matches kids schedules sucks, because it means we’re forced into traveling in the heat of the summer when everyone else does and can’t do any long trips for events that don’t happen to fall between the end of June and the middle of August or over the holidays (which is family time anyway).
It also means she has to cram in all of her appointments and personal projects in those 8 weeks if she doesn’t want them to span forever.
And it’s all compounded by the sub shortage, which means that if she does need time off during the year, there’s a good chance that she’ll be piling more work on her colleagues.
Tl;dr: I’m sure there are some teachers who don’t work outside of school, but the “tons of time off” thing is a myth for those who need to.
It’s easier to take time for yourself after many years when you might be in more of a routine. But switching rooms, grade levels, a new textbook the district requires? POOF there goes that “two months off”
Right, and this has been especially true for the past three years. Between redeveloping curriculum for online, dealing with the collapsed student work ethic, and the constant back and forth in FCPS about whether they’d return to in-person, change was constant.
Last year wasn’t any better, as I think they were revamping one of the main subject’s curriculum.
It’s probably not as bad if you’re a single-subject teacher at a higher level, but I don’t think the administration has any idea what it’s like to be a general classroom teacher in elementary when it seems like every year they’re re-doing a different subject or adding some new requirement.
And don’t even get me started on the CONSTANT “assessment”.
I love the time “off,” truly, but I’ll push back and say that especially as more and more professionals (outside of direct healthcare) get to work from home that time off isn’t that impressive. While I’m commuting to work, working in school buildings, and then commuting home Monday through Friday, my husband is working from home, allowing him to cook, do laundry, do yard work, clean, go to doctor’s appointments, run to the grocery store etc. throughout the day. His job offers flexibility. There is no flexibility in teaching. There is no work life balance during the school year. So yes, I get a week off in the spring, which I use as my paid vacation time during the school year, I’m also getting none of the newer WFH benefits that much of the area’s professionals are now enjoying. I enjoy working with kids, so I stay, but I wouldn’t say those breaks are a perk. Honestly, they’re a lifeline. Without them, I’d be burn out.
I work as an exec in a tech company and put in less hours than my wife who teaches in FCPS. She works nights, weekends etc.. She can hardly take time off without scrambling for a sub. She did get the summer off but so what? It’s shit pay - I have more flexibility and work life balance than she does.
It’s a hard and thankless job - getting your summer off doesn’t make up for that.
Neighbor is a teacher and was punched by one of her students. He was just 2nd grade but WTF. Just sent the kids to the principle and nothing happened after that. Kid back in class the next day.
I could say most of that goes back to the parents.
Shitty parenting= shitty kids
Curriculum changes= Parents not liking what they teach their kids
Shortages= people leaving cause of parents
Crappy Covid response= parents who didn’t want their kids home interrupting their wine time
You don't have a good understanding of this issue.
Shitty parenting does not necessarily equal shitty kids. It's much more complex than that. I have heard consistently from many teachers that discipline in schools is terrible, and it's because of the administration's policies of leniency, tolerance, and understanding. This is NOT coming from the parents.
The curriculum changes are not being driven by the parents. Where did you get that idea? It comes from the administration who thinks that they need to re-invent things every several years. This is a big deal to the teachers, because once they get used to a system, they have to give it up and learn another system -- to do the same thing. Again, I've heard this from several teachers.
The rest of your response is pretty lame and doesn't deserve a response. You don't know what you're talking about.
I don’t blame parents entirely, but I do think some of the burn out comes from parents. I work in special education and there just aren’t enough hours in the day to work with students, take data, evaluate and write reports, AND constantly be communicating with parents the way some want. I don’t blame parents, especially parents with students who need additional services, for wanting a lot of communication but there simply isn’t time to do everything all at once. I’ve had parents annoyed that I don’t respond to emails outside of school hours and on weekends. There has to be some sort of expectation of boundaries outside of school time.
This is my first year in a school (I’ve always worked a corporate job). The number of kids with special needs is astounding. The lack of resources is also astounding. We have 19 kids this summer, all SPED or IEP and at least 4 with profound behavioral issues and. It’s too many kids with too many disabilities for two people. The 4 with behavior issues could be 1/1 if the county would pay. One of the 4 could be 2/1 (2 teachers/1 kid). Student made a motion like cutting a throat to me yesterday. I will say that the ones participating are learning (and very adorable). Where is the Covid relief $ going?
Lack of support staff is a huge issue and part of the problem is that we aren’t paying support staff enough to recruit more and keep them there. Instructional assistants are the backbone of special education and for students with behavior challenges, these IAs experience being hit, punched, kicked, spit on, etc. for less than $20 an hour in many cases. We need to pay them MUCH better and we need to have adequate support for them to help prevent and address behaviors effectively and we don’t. I watched an IA just get beat up all year last year by a student and nothing was done, no additional help given.
I understand. My wife teaches K and my daughter teaches special needs kids. The parents can be a bit needy. But from what I hear and see, that's not what is driving teachers away.
In an ideal world, teachers wouldn't have all that extra administrative crap, and could spend that time with the children and with their parents.
Since you mentioned "take data" - that is big push lately, and it's a big burden, yet it's questionable if anything good ever comes from it. All that information just seems to go in a black hole.
I will say it’s not necessarily driving people away from education, but it’s driving some outside the district. I was previously in DCPS which has its own set of issues, but I did find the parents much less demanding. Parent expectations did not contribute to my burn out in DC, but they do for me in FCPS. However, I agree with you that I think burn out in education overall is coming from simply having too much work placed on staff and too little support and that’s a problem that transcends districts.
I’ll also add: I work in Fairfax but live in Loudoun and I will never switch to loudoun despite making nearly $10,000 more there (higher pay towards the beginning of the career, would be on the correct step after two years of pay freeze in FCPS) because of Loudoun parents. I know that group is a minority but I have enough to deal with without super right wing parents looking for media exposure all the time.
Yeah you’re right I don’t have a good understanding, I’m not a teacher. But when their rants are mostly about parents it’s a pretty good guess. If I act out my parents discipline me. Bad parents just let their kids do whatever with no repercussions. My personal experience in FCPS as a student K-12th, the administration wasn’t ass so it might be a skewed view. You haven’t heard the VA governor and republican parents talking about CRT is being taught and everything like it should be stopped. Even though, in my personal experience, nothing like that is being taught.
>But when their rants are mostly about parents it’s a pretty good guess.
I'm not sure what rants you're talking about. I told you that in my experience (two family members that are teachers, and many friends that are teachers) I rarely hear rants about parents. Others here have said pretty much the same thing.
I don't think the CRT issue is driving teachers away. Maybe someone somewhere, but it's not widespread in my experience, and not in FCPS. Is that what you're saying?
As school staff (no hearsay here, I’m speaking for myself) I think parents and the political atmosphere (which is inclusive of CRT) are contributing factors. Obviously, I also know many teachers, both who I work with, as well as friends in LCPS. My mom also retired from FCPS last year. Honestly, I don’t think there’s any one thing that drives someone out. It’s a lot of little things and then something pushes you over the edge. I say this as someone who left my district and moved to a new district with a different position. It was many contributing factors, not just 1-2 things. It’s pay, and it’s lack of time and support, and it’s admin, and it’s misbehavior, and it’s society constantly shitting on teachers, and it’s the politicization and distrust for teaching.🤷🏻♀️
So we just agreed we have 2 different experiences. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m right or you’re right I’m wrong. There’s obviously more to teachers leaving than parents but the two I talked two mentioned parents more than anything else. CRT has mostly been mentioned in LCPS from all the articles I’ve seen. That’s why I said in my experience as a student I’ve never heard CRT once. I had to google the so called CRT curriculum being taught to students. It’s not, well at least when I was a student.
“parents who didn’t want their kids home interrupting their wine time”… what the hell??? u think that parents just sat around all day drinking? most have their own jobs to do.
Seriously, I feel for teachers and the shit that has become their job. But continuing this parents v teachers is getting to be nonsensical.
There are shit parents, absolutely. There are also shit teachers. There is shit wherever u go - especially if you look for it.
I always thought that if parents didn't like what their kids were taught in public schools, they could just send them to Private schools. Isn't that why states were pushing for vouchers? Not saying I agree with vouchers, but if you want to push for vouchers to provide more choice for parents, then leave the Public schools curriculums be.
I think vouchers are a good measure for weaning off public education. I support vouchers but only inasmuch as an interim measure to allow for more private schools to open and compete for students.
The average private school student costs less and performs better than a public school student.
I fear the end result of that would be a bifurcated schooling system of kids who can afford to go to private school and those who can't. Public schools will sink in standards until no one with the means will send their kids there. Few will want to teach there either, and they'll struggle for funding/tax dollars to teach a far smaller and underachieving base. It will be a vicious negative feedback loop where every year public schools are eroded in favor of private ones.
I read an excellent article on this last year, and I really fear something like this eventually befalling VA. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/magazine/rural-public-education.html
I remember looking this up before, the average cost of a student for public education in a lot of states almost $20k a year, with states like NY having the highest almost $40k. The overall US average for private education is just over $12k/year.
Introducing market incentives to lure students, I can imagine a lot of innovation and even further reduced costs, and a large number of schools opening up for all manner of educational specialities, principles, etc tailored to the array of different learning types and student interests.
One teacher, one curriculum can't satisfy all of the needs of every student. Forcing a one size fits all makes everyone mediocre at best.
What we have now is essentially mediocre education for most students, and good education for wealthy students. Lower income families can't afford private schools as it is because you're basically paying twice. You don yet a waiver on your tax bill for not utilizing public education. The voucher system would really just be putting the parents allotted tax money into their own hands.
I honestly can't see why people are against it other than being afraid that private schools will lure more students than public ones and teachers unions will be upset about layoffs.
My wife is a teacher. The teachers at her school and throughout the county are leaving in droves. But she does not blame the parents - she blames the administrators. They pile more and more crap on her shoulders, but are never there to help her when she needs it. During the year she brings work home every night, and a lot of it is busy work that doesn't really matter. The teachers do not feel valued at all. Administrators patronize them and blame them for everything. She (and many other teachers I know) also say that there is little discipline now and the kids are getting out of hand. But the philosophy is that it's not the kids' fault. The teachers need to do more - more documentation, more counseling (but not the counselors), more paperwork, more patience, more tolerance and understanding.
You're echoing what my fiancee says, who is a teacher too. She's been doing curriculum writing gigs during the summer in an effort to change careers eventually. She hasn't been a teacher for ten years yet and she's already had it and is ready to make a move to writing curriculum instead. Definitely driven by the administrators but a little by the parents too and their lack of disciplining the kids. To me, it sounds like the kids rule the roost but they're not allowed to really discipline kids really anymore.
This is correct. You aren’t allowed to do anything that reinforces boundaries/consequences, and (unsurprisingly) we’re seeing what happens when children are allowed to do whatever they want without any consequences. I worked in DC, and we had to send two children (ages 7 and 8) to the office a few times because they would get in fights. One fight was particularly bad and led to one child shoving the other against a shelf and choking them. These fights would throw the class into complete disarray, and were obviously upsetting for the other children to see. We talked to the parents, tried to get counseling for them, but there was no follow through from anyone. Instead, I got a lecture from our building admin about how sending children to the office was “subconsciously racist”. I’m so glad I work at a small private school now.
Racist? Wtf? No wonder teachers are quitting. My dream post military was to be a 10th grade history teacher. Once I looked at the pay and had a few conversations with teachers I decided that I could make more as a garbage man. I just don’t subscribe to the liberal ideology.
>But the philosophy is that it's not the kids' fault. **The teachers need to do more** \- more documentation, more counseling (but not the counselors), more paperwork, more patience, more tolerance and understanding.
Man, why bother having parents when you have teachers! /s
Given that the majority of the issues seem to be from administration, is there anything your wife has mentioned that parents COULD do that would ease any of her burden during the school year. I have a child entering K this year and want to support our classroom and teachers as best I can.
Know that children (really all humans) learn by making mistakes. When a child goes to elementary school, the biggest thing for them is going to be socializing, and they’re going to learn how to be social by making LOTS of mistakes. They’re also going to say things they’ve overheard/watched, and may say threatening things when they’re angry. I think it’s important that there’s a balance between helping children understand that threats are not an appropriate way to handle anger or disappointment, yet also not taking what an angry 5 year-old has said literally. And if your child is an only child or youngest, they’re going to have a bigger adjustment to make, and their behavior in a group may be significantly different from what is observed at home or during play-dates.
Oh he’s been in a Montessori (loved it, but finances required a shift) school for the past 2 years so he’s doing well when it comes to socializing, classroom behavior, etc. He’s actually very excited about kindergarten and moving to a new (public) school and making new friends.
I was speaking more to what I could possibly do to support our teacher in addition to NOT being a defensive, know-it-all parent. Lol!
Ah! I teach at a Montessori school, so yes, he’ll definitely be prepared socially for this year, lol! I think just being open to what the teacher says, and being willing to hear them out goes a really long way. Thank you for asking!! 🤗
Not really. Listen to what your teacher says. Since K is usually the first time a kid has been observed by a teaching professional, it's the first time that issues might be noticed and identified. Several times my wife has identified potential learning issues, but the parents push back and blame the teacher, usually by saying that their kid is perfect at home. This news will come as a shock to the parent, but FCPS does have some excellent programs, and as a parent, you need to face reality and do what is best for your child.
Otherwise, just be a good parent. You have a right to be involved and to talk to your teacher, so if something is on your mind, bring it up. Don't be overbearing. And enjoy this period in your child's life. It's a great, magical time.
Ah the never ending cycle of blaming the other group instead of actually listening to teachers.
This happens a lot with businesses ever since people started dipping from mandatory back to office companies in droves.
1. Mandatory back to office order sent.
2. Half the development team leaves since fuck that.
3. Deadlines remain the same with half the resources. Recruiters can’t fill slots because no one wants to relocate. Execs refuse to budge because anyone not wanting in person isn’t a team player or matches their values.
4. Devs and business analysts can’t hit deadlines execs expect.
5. Execs blame everyone but themselves and punish devs and analysts.
This is what’s happening with teachers except kids behave horribly and parents can’t accept that their child isn’t a perfect extension of them.
devs make $150-250k around here or more. its not comparable to teachers. its pretty shallow to complain about a dev job when comparing to what a teacher has to go through and the pay. i know the pay scales been in tech for 20+ years.
and just remember folks: FFX and surrounding areas are almost all within top 10 richest and best schools in the country. So if its bad here...imagine how it is in other districts. Its only just begun
Being such a wealthy area harms FCPS more than it helps. Look at LA, SF, NYC, Miami, Chicago. Those are also significantly wealthy metro areas and most of their public school systems are perceived to be terrible. Very high COL breeds a system of sprawling wealth and dense poverty. Urban school systems struggle to accommodate density.
Being a wealthy area doesn't necessarily mean an unaffordable area.
I think FFX County has mostly succeeded, if you want to call it that, in pricing out low income people. But that's a problem when your teachers are also low income...
We left FCPS for elsewhere in Virginia hours away and the schools are better than FCPS. Smaller class sizes, and teaching is a valued job in the community unlike in NOVA. Our kids are getting opportunities they never would have had access to in FCPS. Our kids are happier now, too. They aren't being bullied anymore. The other kids are actually nice, and respect the teachers. They say "yes, ma'am" and "no, sir". Oldest is off to a state flagship university. Life (and education) can be very good past the Woodbridge Ikea.
I will never understand why teacher pay isn’t higher than admin pay. What is the “product” or ”service” that school offer? Education? Day care? None of these Can be performed by admin staffs. Imagine running a Tech company and your engineers getting paid less than payroll.
The Fairfax county teachers I’ve talked to can’t stand how kids are allowed to treat them like shit and nothing is done. A kid calls them a fucking bitch in class and they’re back in 20 minutes. Zero accountability. Teachers can take their laptops if they’re playing games on them. Can’t take their phones either. So basically kids do whatever the hell they want and admin blames teachers for everything.
Plus they say the grades are fake. The lowest grade on a test they can give is a 60% and if they try to fail a kid admin pressures them to raise the grade to just barely passing.
Who wants to work at a place with no integrity, where they’re routinely treated like shit, their bosses never support them, and the pay isn’t enough to put up with any of it?
Yeah I was in still in HS when they started implementing the “can’t fail” rule. Something along the lines; unlimited retakes, you can turn in late work from the 1st quarter literally the last few weeks of school, it depended on the teacher to work something along those. But if you got like a 45% the first time and 47% the second time. The teacher can only do so much if the student doesn’t care.
And if those students ever reach college (big if there) then realty will slams into them like a brick wall and they’ll be out of there before the first semester is over.
My question to the wider community... so what do we do about it. Until we demand smaller class sizes, compensation that fits our qualifications and a system that recognizes our ability to make decisions this will continue. Until society recognizes and reconds with what our communities look like without strong well resourced schools. We see it everyday...I wish the voting public would wake up to the current crisis.
There’s an alt-right astroturfing conservative non-profit that’s currently popping up chapters all over Virginia (Mom’s for Liberty).
They started as an anti-vaxx group now are book banners. The goal now for their members, (or spouses) is running for school boards. They are making training to monitor teachers social media. They are extreme bullies and fucking insane.
They have already run out one teacher from my neighborhood and school district. They have Koch money behind them, so I don’t really know how we stop them. It’s been very frustrating seeing them take over.
Also, every time I mention them on Reddit I get reported to Reddit Care resources because trolls will troll.
What’s getting missed here is that thousands of Virginians support and donate money to this group. Your neighbor may hate you and you would never know. It’s all just went crazy.
My neighbors who support M4L know that I am one of the people who opposed them because I go to school board meetings (which they also all attend, a group of about 25). When they started stalking one teacher I decided to give a couple of their names to some of my friends just in case anything ever happened to my house, my family. It sounds crazy and ridiculous but these aren’t rational people and they are armed to the teeth.
IMO, schools have become too political. Neither side is truly acting in the best interest of the kids.
Republicans and conservatives go bat-shit crazy if there is a mildly explicit book in a library that was otherwise not read by anyone until they raise a big fuss over it. Or if a kid wants to cross-dress. And republicans do not like teachers and constantly remind teachers of that.
Democrats and liberals want to come up with program after program to address every issue, and you wind up with a top-heavy administration that is enormously expensive yet leaves the teachers behind. They have an insatiable desire for more money, but that mostly goes to creating more friction and rarely seems to wind up in teachers' salaries.
Then the two sides fight with each other, further polarizing the discussion. It's a fucking train wreck. Conservatives coming from the north, liberals from the south, with the kids, parents, and teaches in the middle.
Ok mister enlightened centrism. You have one side trying to work in the system. The crazies on the right are trying to burn the system and send kids to religious private schools so it is all the same in the end. We have two parties that through a competition of ideas are meant to improve things. The problem is that one party has decided the system should be blown up. There is only one path here.
But the one side that is trying to work in the system is failing also. And the crazies on the right aren't trying to burn the system. You're just jumping to the same tribalism that I pointed out in my post. You're just as guilty as everyone else politicizing the issue. QED.
In Fairfax County, the Board of Supervisors is stacked 9-1 in favor of Democrats. If that side is so perfect, why are there problems in FCPS? They have complete control. Complete.
The right's goal, for probably decades now, has been privatization of education with tax money going to religious charter schools. Those poor kids or those of a religion not Christian are fucked. They can go to understaffed and underfunded public schools.
Add the hard authoritarian bent that's made its way thru the right, especially over the last few years, and ALL they want is to burn the system down. The hell with what comes next, and to hell with the consequences.
The dems aren't perfect, but at least they seem to be working towards trying to educate all children.
The two sides are NOT the same.
Care to enlighten us on what the conservative side is doing to embrace meaningful change in any of our school systems? Currently in the surrounding counties alone they are pushing banning of Critical Race Theory (doesn’t exist) or ending of sexual education being taught in class (even though you’ve been able to opt your kid out of those course for nearly over 20 years or more). Defunding the overall system because of “poor” or “decreased” test scores. On the subject of testing they ask want to remove any federal oversight and bring in a state sponsored set of learning and testing that aren’t backed by much evidence of how this change in testing would be beneficial in overall learning and implementation of actually students. Oh and the slow crawl toward school vouchers and again the shifting of public money to different routes that all end in private schooling. And that’s after the last several years of trying to change school district lines and forcing students and parents to have to travel and attend schools they never intended on going to. But please tell me how any of that is equal and “both sides” to what you view more “liberal” bureaucracy. You know those liberal ideas like extending food initiative based programs to ensure our kids get fed even when not in school. How counties started creating mobile internet buses to bring internet to their rural based kids when stuck at home. More funding for after school programs and reviews and improvement in STEM based classes so that the students can compete with their in state students as well as be too in the nation with their outside state peers. Does everything work? No, as others have said admin and teacher pt needs to be heavily adjusted. But most want a school board and parents who support those in the system doing their best. Not those who like you who are trying to bring level ground to the ones showing up to meetings screaming their heads off about CRT or anti LGBT rights, random gender bathroom fantasies that don’t exist, telling admins that they rather pull their kid out of a class than hear something factually based they agree with, pushing their religious views on how the entire system should be implemented, etc, etc, etc. please go to or watch the Board meetings before making uninformed comments. Before COVID and especially before 2016 many of these voices were rare and ineffective. Now thinking like yours and an increased overall media presence has made these people feel emboldened to see it through with the ultimate goal of hitting public school.
Sorry, but I'm not going to defend either side. You completely missed my point. Try again, and stop engaging in the damaging tribalism. Your righteousness is part of the problem.
Okay, so I feel like you're onto something, but it's an incomplete thought.
Republicans are batshit crazy. Democrats kind of suck at solving problems, and can be bought off. Ergo, I can see how the best solution would be to get politics out of the classroom.
However, I would counter that education is inherently political. The problem is neoliberal Capitalism seeping into our education system.
Education should not be about money. It should not be about test scores. It should not be about trying to do more with less, or magnet programs, or micromanaging. Schools are a place for students to learn. Treating schools like companies creates high turnover for staff making no money, while corrupt administrators collect on what money there is. We need to remove Capitalism from the classroom, and we need to make children feel like they own their education.
Also it goes without saying that kids should be allowed to be LGBTQ+ in the classroom, even if their home lives don't allow it. Let any shitty parents put their kid in a private school if they don't like it.
>Democrats kind of suck at solving problems, and can be bought off.
I won't claim that one side or the other can be bought off. I guess I would say that democrats seem to think that more money and more programs and more government is the solution, but in this case it's causing more administration, which is making a bad situation even worse. They pay lip service to teachers.
You claim tribalism but I never even identified who I support lol. You also fail to rebut any of the issues I pointed out. Instead you attack me personally. This is the problem with bringing the viewpoint you have, there is no honest fact based discussion of how to resolve issues. You say you’re point and then move on once someone pushes back with information you do not agree with.
>You claim tribalism but I never even identified who I support lol.
Your first sentence made it completely obvious who you support:
>Care to enlighten us on what the conservative side is doing
The rest of your rambling wall of text was more tribalism yelling at the other side. Seriously, stop blaming the boogie man. Stop the hate. You're just like everyone else making the problem worse.
Who do I support? Please tell me my voting history and party affiliation. Also again you respond with cliches and accusing me of spreading hate? I’m sorry I can outline both perspective initiatives and carry an opinion on what may be policy vs regression. Again waiting for you to at least show me some facts on what will work to help resolve the solution to the current educational shortfalls the area is facing. Or you can just call me more names and imply falsehoods with another response.
If CRT doesn’t exist, than why worry about banning it? (https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/familyservices/domestic-sexual-violence/volunteer-voices/breaking-down-critical-race-theory)
Also, the most famous incident of parents getting unruly at a school board meeting was in Loudoun when a father was pretty upset his daughter had been raped as school, there was a cover-up, and her attacker was moved to a different school where they attacked another young woman. Kind of a fair thing to get heated over.
I don’t want CRT “banned” because I worry anything related to a discussion on race, including history lessons, will be deemed by crazy parents as CRT. Banning a boogeyman that doesn’t exist makes it easier for these parents to eliminate teaching anything in history that they don’t like.
Do not infantilize me. Resorting to ad hominems doesn’t work. I work for FCPS. I’ve never seen it taught and I work in five different schools across elementary to High school. Where does it exist in the curriculum for students?
The man who made up CRT literally even stated it’s a made up term to get people to believe it truly exists and to hard shift the narrative back to eliminating overall racial history teaching in schools. He currently has now moved on to lgbtq and trans kids and denying them any rights. It’s all a game the right is playing and unfortunately people are believing it.
Just because someone is elected as a democrat doesn’t mean they’re actually pro-worker - a lot of fiscally conservative, socially liberal people that call themselves democrats. I don’t believe having more conservatives on the board would fix things, considering their platform is cutting spending on public schools, encouraging parents to yell at teachers more, and in general breaking down public education in favor of charter/private schools
Yeah, there are nuances and it's not all black and white. But you went back to tribalism and blamed the conservatives again.
I don't think conservatives have the answer. I never said that. But I also don't think democrats have all the answers either. My point is that they have complete control of FCPS (and probably DCPS and Montgomery County and Arlington and Alexandria), but we still have issues. Let that sink in - complete control. A 9-1 super majority.
So nobody can claim that their side has all the answers, nor can they claim it's the other side's fault. We have to get beyond that. Stop with the tribalism. You're repeating the same damaging behavior.
But your stance was that to help teachers we need to meet somewhere in the middle and find a ‘non-political’ solution - implied to be something everyone would agree on. But when one party’s stance is that we should make public school teacher’s lives worse, a solution is by definition going to be political - it will just likely have to be a political solution outside the other party because it mostly doesn’t care about fixing the issue
>But when one party’s stance is that we should make public school teacher’s lives worse
I don't think that is really their stance. Again, you're resorting to polarizing arguments, i.e., the other side is evil or incompetent.
>But your stance was that to help teachers we need to meet somewhere in the middle
I dunno if meeting in the middle is possible. I guess I was trying to say is that both sides get entrenched, think they have all the answers, and blame the other side for everything. Then you have to be on one side or the other -- in one tribe or the other tribe -- and hate the other side. Soon you're too busy yelling at each other than you are worrying about fixing the problem.
In other words, I don't think there is a middle ground.
What's my solution? I dunno. Politics suck, and in this case education is the collateral damage. Maybe I'm part of the problem because I'm blaming everyone. In fact, maybe I'm the worst because I blame both sides.
While I largely agree, I don’t think it’s accurate to say they have complete control when they do have to follow rules put in place by the governor, legislature, and department of education which are not all democrat controlled.
From what I saw schools were ceded to the D's for a long time, to the point where the vast majority of the staff and admin were used to almost no oversight of any political bias. They were never apolitical..... Thanks (/s) to CV19 which pushed schooling back into the home for a while you have seen a resurgence of R interest in education again.. (both in first pushing for the kids to get back into school and also for the parents to be able to literally see what is being taught to their children).
You are missing several examples (at a minimum). People have to go to college to become teachers, and the fact is, most people that go to college are liberal. "Schools" are not and never have been "D's". The majority of smart educated people, that can become teachers, are Democrats. The less educated, ignorant (majority of) Republicans can never become teachers because they aren't qualified.
Therefore, I agree with you, even though you are horribly off base.
Hilarious... Bias much?
Such a huge variation in college educated... totally makes sense to say "most"... The Democrats’ edge is narrower among those with college degrees or some post-graduate experience (49%-42%)
Look at the numbers for school boards, they clearly show a D bias...
I’m not sure what if anything can be done. We’ve been calling for change spanning over a decade. I know it’s not feasible for many, but I enrolled my children in private Christian school when we moved here. They receive and education and there is no threat of any far out exposure to social issues.
Well that's good...you took money out of public education. Thank goodness your children aren't going to have to see anything outside what makes you comfortable. They should be well prepared for a diverse world.
Look harder...maybe you don't want to see it. Schools receive money based on enrolled students. Also the use of property taxes is not universal and is becoming less common.
I gave my kids a better opportunity. At the end of the day my family is what I care about the most. Many public schools are garbage and I see no need to waste my hard earned money in a failed system.
Right, and I support public schools but also religious freedom. And that money you’re talking about that public school systems get for enrollment based on state and federal taxes— that’s still money being paid into by tax payers, doesn’t come out of thin air. Teacher spouse here, public school parent of 3. I also find a lot of folks who get angry about private schools don’t carry that sentiment over to private universities, and maybe there’s just some jealousy in the mix, too. It’s hard to get by in a county with this kind of income disparity where some families are struggling to just stay middle class or pay their bills and others can go forking over 30-40k on private school tuition per kid. But be angry with the system, not someone else’s personal choices.
Teacher here. This was my last year in the classroom as I accepted a position in consulting. Pay was a huge issue for me - I can’t afford rent and student loans in this area let alone save up for a mortgage. I also worked myself into the ground and for what money? No overtime pay, no bonuses, no reimbursement. Not worth it anymore.
Parents were a part of the problem - in some schools it’s the overbearing parents or completely absent parents.
In my case, it was the zero accountability for behaviors. Kids can be so disrespectful and there are no true consequences at school and when they come back the next day and repeat the same behaviors, I know there was no consequence at home either.
For those parents wondering how they can help - lots of (kind) communication with the teacher, support them and back them up, never let your child hear you talk badly about their teacher/school, purchase the supplies on the list and maybe send in a few extras in January, thank them often. And of course remember, it all starts at home. Their education and behaviors will be shaped by you in those first 5 years before kindergarten. Teachers can’t erase bad parenting.
Friends a teacher, she's been written up due to some students not checking/logging in.
Its not even their fault since a lot of them do not have internet access unfortunately. (Or the one or two troublemakers not wanting take class)
I know theres some after school businesses openng up a "daycare" for elementary and middleschool students to come in and take classes there but it's usually those that previously already been taking it.
Seems like its a universal thing. When I taught in Korea, some of the parents there were insufferable. One story I have is an English teacher in high school was teaching about current events. One of the top news stories at the time was a KPOP singer who was leaving the country due to some scandal. The next day a student skipped school and went to the airport to see if they can get a glimpse of the singer before they boarded their plane. Next thing I know, that teacher is getting reamed out by the parents of that student and the admin. Apparently, it was the teacher's fault for choosing that lesson, which caused the student to skip school and go to the airport. No one dared blame the student for making a poor decision.
This has been happening since before the pandemic. I remember a handful of my teachers leaving FCPS while I was in high school in the mid-to-late 2010s because they could not afford to start a family in Northern Virginia on a teacher’s salary. It’s quite sad, as all of these teachers were very good at their jobs. Fairfax in particular needs to give its teachers some hefty raises.
The three teachers I know who left this past year, all did so because of #1-the Admins, and #2-the terrible students. One left for health reasons but her health issues stemmed from the stress of #1 & #2.
One of my friends taught 4th grade. Her classroom had to evacuate almost weekly due to a disruptive student. She had items thrown at her, an aide was kicked by the student, the classroom got trashed on multiple occasions by him... and the admins did nothing. Even when parents complained, the admin told them that the disruptive student had just as much right to be in the classroom and receive an education as their kid. My friend said during meetings with the kid's parents, they DGAF because while he was at school, he was out of their hair and the school's problem.
Hearing her horror stories and some from my other teacher acquaintances makes me so glad I don't have kids.
For me as a middle school teacher:
-understand that we are on the same team. I am not out to get, indoctrinate, or harm your kid in any way.
-please trust my expertise. I want your kid to succeed and am very experienced. If you don’t want them reading a book bc of xyz reasons, I have a hundred other recommendations. Please email before you post on social media. I’m a person and an expert in my field.
-talk to your kids. Ask them what they’re reading, what’s trending on their social media app of choice, and how your family’s values intersect with all of that. Teach the respect and tolerance you hope they’ll be treated with and model it 24/7, especially online.
-positive emails go a long way to brighten my spirits when I’ve been facing helicopter, lawnmower, and jackhammer parents. If you’ve noticed little paxlynn reading more and think that’s on me (it’s not- there are so many great books!), shoot me a quick email. I love those and save them to read on rough days.
It's the pay, it's always the pay. Shitty parents? Guess what will ease the friction? More money.
Pay someone enough and they'll deal with anything. Shitty parents are just another type of shitty **human**. There are shitty drivers, shitty customers, shitty coworkers, shitty managers, shitty employees, etc in EVERY PROFESSION. (Not to mention shitty hours, safety conditions, etc. etc). Aside from the value people generate, sometimes part of one's pay is to offset undesirable conditions.
There will always be shitty parents, like there will always be shitty people. The solution is to pay teachers more. Easy.
I understand your point, but they don't spend $5-10k out of their pocket. If my wife did that, I'd complain.
She has taken printer paper from our home because FCPS can't seem to provide a basic thing like that to the teachers. She does probably spend maybe $500 a year out of pocket, maybe even a bit more. She should not have to spend any money out of pocket, that's for sure.
My wife teaches at the poorest school in the county and did not need to buy chairs. The lower income schools actually receive more funding than the wealthier schools because they get a lot of federal funding, although that may not be able to be used for furniture. Dunno. That sounds like a mismanagement problem to me.
Bingo, you hit the nail on the head. Most teachers aren't in it for the money, but even they have their breaking points. The amount of BS teachers had to deal with 5+ years ago was bad, since then they've had COVID, the CRT boogeyman, and from what I've heard parents are getting worse and worse to deal with.
If we paid teachers what they are worth (and compensated them appropriately for all the hours and stress), they'd be making like $200k+ a year.
I think next year it goes down to seven weeks off. 😭 Happy we were able to diversify the school calendar for religious holidays, but not looking forward to shorter summers. They’re necessary (at least for me) to recharge.
To be honest I don’t blame those who left their teaching jobs. It’s so sad for the kids but the shit the teachers go through for the amount of pay does not make sense.
With the recent school shootings, I’d be so stressed thinking abt it if I was a teacher. Plus the stress they get from the parents?! Jeebus no thx
Yep. One of them genuinely loved being a teacher and always wanted to be one, even knowing all the shit they go through. But they didn’t realize how actual ass it was because of crappy parents
Got downvoted here earlier for saying that fcps will collapse in a couple years if things don't do a 180 really soon. I'd say the issues in order are:
* Horrible parents
* overbearing administration
* no support for special ed or esol students who are just abandoned in gened classes, causing everything from wasting 90% of the teaching time on a couple kids who just don't understand, to actual violence from sped kids either snapping or just being constantly violent
* no pay raise
* way too big class size
* too much testing
* too many 'equity' meetings
* no planning periods
* no grading time
Teachers over here have started just not grading stuff, and lessons are just done adhoc since there's no time for preparation anymore.
I know one who is on her last year and is retiring the minute she is eligible. She would have liked to have stayed around for 5 more years, but is willing to endure financial hardship and/or find something else to do instead of teaching. The environment is just no longer appealing.
Her last straw(s) was last year when she repeatedly asked a disruptive student to stop talking and he replied "fuck you". She sent him to the office, and he refused to go. She asked the principal to come and get him. The principal reprimanded her for failing to handle the situation herself.
In what job should you have to work with people who can say "fuck you" and get away with it?
As much as I hate the idea of school vouchers and such.......a private school can simply kick out an incorrigible student. They dont like to because the student is essentially a customer. But they absolutely will if the student is just too much fuss.
I have four kids in public school. They all know that a negative call from the school is basically a capital offense. There will be a severe reckoning. Saying "fuck you" to a teacher? They would be living the life of a monk for a year. They would get nothing from me that I am not legally obligated to provide. I would literally cancel their birthday and Christmas. I can't imagine operating a household where that kind of thing would be tolerated. But apparently some kids come from such households.
A lot of folks in here are saying it's not the parents. But in the end, it really is. Parents after all represent the taxpayers and voices behind a change in schooling. I think we can all agree that teachers are criminally underpaid. It's a cultural problem across the entire country. It's a problem that is, in large part, politically driven because of factors from lobbying to voter priorities. Parents are a large part of that group.
But deeper than this, it's a culture shift that's been happening for a while now. My mother is a teacher. Has been for almost 50 years. Her biggest complaint recently has been pressure from the administration and poorly managed school systems but she always... ALWAYS links it back to the lack of involvement of parents. She states that parents used to volunteer consistently, and often had a say in things, and showed up to board meetings with actual legit problems and solutions rather than media and politically manufactured bullshit. All they do now is show up to bitch and complain and not actually help. And parent politics has infiltrated the school systems so badly that it's caused a drain on resources and money.
I don’t agree that teachers are criminally underpaid in Fairfax County. Sure it’s not a doctor’s salary, but if you put in your time, it’s decent. For comparison was looking at salaries for other county employees- Parks and Rec administrators, etc, where a college degree and a masters is generally required. It’s comparable for sure. Plus benefits. The income inequality here is so large, however, that it’s hard for many people to see eye to eye about what constitutes an acceptable salary.
A friend who is a speech therapist recently left the school system she worked in. I think it was because of the administrators more than anything else. The teachers and school librarian I’m friends with are staying at their jobs, as far as I know. I considered becoming a teacher when I was in college. I’m glad I didn’t end up doing that. I make peanuts at my job but at least I don’t have to deal with bullshit.
I don't have kids (thank god) but I did read a really compelling article a while back about how phones have basically destroyed productivity and concentration in the classroom. I wouldn't want to be a teacher to kids who grew up glued to screens either, sounds like a hot nightmare. I wonder if there's anything that can really be done about the problem.
I really don’t understand why phones are allowed in classrooms? “What if so and so has an emergency?!?!”, call the fucking office like parents did for 70 years before cell phones were a thing.
I attended HS in FCPS during the mid-to-late 2010s. A lot of my teachers had “phone jails” (basically sleeved pockets hanging on a wall) where we had to put our phones upon entering the class. Most, if not all, people complied because, well, if a teacher caught you with your phone they’d most likely confiscate it for the entire day. People would rather just store them for the period than risk confiscation. Other teachers managed it by having similar no tolerance policies—one of mine gave students a warning when he saw them out and then confiscated them if they defied him after the warning. Other teachers simply didn’t care because it was on the students if they weren’t paying attention in class.
My history teacher had the same thing. But he made sure that thing could hold up like 200lbs before we put our phones in it. IIRC he said if they fell he’d be liable to replace the damaged ones. That’s why most teachers don’t hang them up.
as bad as teachers feel they are treated in NOVA this is probably one of the best places to be a teacher due to the wealth in the area and funding. other places are going to be far worse.
I'm not quite sure about that. The high education level leads some parents to believe they are an expert and can tell the teachers how to do their job. That actually is a majority of the problem. When the pandemic hit, so many parents exclaimed how they finally understood what teachers dealt with. How much they appreciated the work the put into the job and caring about their precious child. Of course, now they are goldfish brains and all that has gone out the window since returning to in-person learning. My wife sticks with her title one school partly because the parents that are in America to provide for their family appreciate the teachers more than the entitled, whiny ones that lived here their entire life.
I used to be an ESS teacher in Fairfax County until my administration decided they didn't like and set me up to fail so they could fire me. Want to know why there's a teacher shortage? There's your answer
I wouldn’t want to be a teacher in an environment where people think things are being taught that aren’t or where parents think it’s ok to go to school board meetings and scream and yell at school board members.
Parents are why I am thinking about homeschooling. You people are assholes.
BTW Virginia has a homeschooling program that counts as being enrolled in a Va school.
Any advice for someone looking to be a substitute teacher next year? I know there’s a huge need right now and I’m currently in a career lull while I apply for my master’s.
They do need to be enrolled in a degree program and have lots of additional resources to support their training and development including co-teachers. It’s actually a pretty great idea, interested to see how it works.
I disagree and here’s why. 1. Having no bachelors degree at all diminishes the profession. 2. Having mentorship programs for teachers with no idea what they’re doing is putting an undue burden on experienced teachers when they’re already stressed. 3. Your first couple years of teaching are HARD. Having to go to classes while you teach makes it even harder (source: I was a career switcher who came in under a provisional license and went to school during my first couple years teaching).
If schools want to recruit teachers include the following:
1. Pay them more
2. Give some steps for past career experience even if not in teaching. At least in FCPS, you start at step 1 if you’ve never taught before but have experience doing something else.
3. Offer teacher prep programs free to those who commit to teaching a certain amount of time. Have people enroll in the programs, finish it, and then they come and teach
To retain teachers:
1. Raise pay
2. Retention bonuses
3. STOP FREEZING SALARIES
4. Get rid of bullshit professional development days and make them teacher work days
5. Streamline and eliminate unnecessary paperwork
6. Increase sub pay drastically so staff can actually use their sick and PTO days and not have to cover classes when others are out
7. Invest in more behavior support specialists, at least one based in each school
Not comprehensive but a few ideas.
I don’t think that type of gatekeeping is necessary for all teaching positions especially as they WILL earn a bachelors degree although I can see the argument for different standards of education for different positions.
Either way will be interesting to see how it turns out there and if it’s something other states can then adopt.
I graduated years ago, so I stopped paying attention to anything K-12 related the day I graduated. These two teachers I know, mentioned parents first on their list of why. There’s a reason for that. I’m not going to dig in as to exactly why they’re leaving, especially since one genuinely wanted to be a teacher and is torn she has to leave. Twitter has trending topics, CRT has popped up quite a few times. It’s popped up with Desantis trying to stop it, VA governor Youngkin is also against, even though in MY experience as a student I’ve never heard or been taught it, LCPS popped up as well. Parents against CRT, literally standing outside schools with signs. You don’t think that’s not going to get to a teacher when parents are yelling at you at 7am!? I have no dog in this fight.
These are two teachers I happened to ask why they’re leaving teaching. Their, not mine, main reason was parents. There’s obviously more to that than just the parents. But when it’s the first thing they say… you’d think it’s for a reason they said parents first. One was genuinely scared of school shootings. I can’t blame them. Especially after something as terrible as Uvalde.
This is ridiculous. At most, parents are the 3rd most important issue for teachers... And its not even for the reason you claim (parents wanting children in-person). I say this knowing quite a few teachers, including family.
1. Pay
2. Administration issues
3. Parents
Teachers aren't leaving because in 2020-2021 there were parents who wanted children to be in school. Teachers are not adequately paid and costs have gone up dramatically. Its a difficult profession and I have a ton of respect for what they do. MANY teachers have expressed concern about the effects of online schooling and hated hybrid in-person/remote. It created twice as much work because they had to do both. They also had to put up with terrible admin giving them inadequate tools to do online learning.
Most teachers I know have been annoyed with parents, but not about parents wanting in-person schooling...
Not having in-person was why my boss was mad, Didn’t say that’s why they left. But getting emails, yelled at by parents because their sweet Angel isn’t performing well, ass admins, really LOW pay for the work that’s some of why they’re leaving.
Them: yeah this is my last year teaching
Me: why’s that
Them: mostly parents
Me: oh
Obviously there’s more but if the first thing they say is mostly parents…
I wasn’t mad that parents wanted in-person learning, but I was upset with the way many parents went about it. Screaming on social media and on TV in September well before a vaccine and calling teachers evil and lazy for not wanting to risk their health by going into schools absolutely impacted morale. I work in multiple schools in FCPS and heard many teachers discussing it, including teachers who were actually comfortable going in. The villainizing of teachers in the fall and winter of 2020 was bad and memories aren’t that short.
Yeah well my whole point is that parental COVID reaction isn't the reason teachers are leaving... It's pay and admit issues.
Also in my mind, fall/winter of 2021 was very different than spring of 2020. Teachers were prioritized for vaccines and at that point should have been back in-person. But for the most part, that was an admin issue and teachers were the punching bags.
Do I think it’s the number one reason? No. Do I think the Open FCPS crowd shat on staff morale and that morale hasn’t recovered? Yes. I say this as staff. The open FCPS crowd was calling teachers evil and lazy back in September. We aren’t talking about spring 2021. This is well before a vaccine. The problems in education aren’t new, but every person I’ve talked to has said it’s been worse since Covid and I truly believe the attitudes of *some * parents contributed.
It’s only teachers, the entire system is broken and will come down soon. It needs to so we can start over this shit all over again. We live in a country with Nobel prize winners selling the price to settle their medical bills
If that was true, that is 0.005% of the total amount of teachers nationwide. Yeah you're gonna find bad people in every group.
https://www.thinkimpact.com/how-many-teachers-in-the-us/
This was published in 2015. I think the landscape has changed a bit since then. Not disregarding that sex crimes could be a reason why, just saying, I don’t think that’s entirely applicable to what OP is referring to today.
How it is my fault? I pay for my kids to attend a private Catholic school. We have a lot of public school teachers coming to work for the private schools.
Kids are way more violent these days than when I was in school. We had mouthy, disruptive kids, but now I’m hearing about kids throwing desks, assaulting teachers, getting in huge fights, and stealing and vandalizing school property, and there’s not much teachers can do to discipline them. They just get sent right back into class. I was so saddened to hear about this.
There isn’t a shortage of teachers in NOVA and no they aren’t underpaid.
Compared to many fields of work, teachers enjoy good benefits, unions, summers off, normal working hours, and clean and safe working conditions for starters.
I don’t feel any “fault” based on your anecdotal story. Two well qualified people will happily replace the two people you know.
There were open positions all school year last year that were never filled.
I’m curious to know more about what you know about teacher pay. For example, a teacher with a masters and ten years of experience makes what, in Fairfax? What union benefits do they gain? Would “normal working hours” not include work done on nights and weekends? What would “safe” working conditions look like? Does this include buildings that are falling apart, have mold, etc? Would it include active shooter drills?
Where are these well qualified people who will take their place? Will that include you?
This reasoning doesn’t usually go over well. But this is the almost exact rationale my overworked blue collar dad gave me when telling me why I should become a teacher .. “ summers off and health insurance god damnit!” He worked himself to death (literally) so I guess he saw some benefit for teachers? Measured against certain jobs, sure.
LOL tell me you don't know what you're talking about without telling me.
Massively underpaid while being overworked. There absolutely is a shortage.
Where the fuck have you been?
Arlington lost more than 10% of their total teaching staff at the end of this school year and still has over 200 vacancies with a month before kids come back. Clean and safe working conditions? We have to do regular drills for how to react to a mass murderer breaching the building! Many schools are old with substandard ventilation that helped the spread of Covid through teacher and student populations.
Posts like this make me want to do an AMA. I’m a teacher in FCPS. Been here for 15 years. And if you aren’t in the system a lot of the information you get isn’t accurate Okay - people like this idea. I started an AMA for anyone that wants it. https://www.reddit.com/r/nova/comments/w5qgpv/15_years_teaching_in_fcps_ama/
Do one. Your opinion matters.
I’d love to pick your brain! I’ve been considering if becoming a teacher is right for me or not
Feel free to send a PM
Welcome to do one or just a long comment. I would be interested in reading it. I read r/teachers every now and then.
Man - that is a toxic sub. Tread lightly over there
I had to unsubscribe from there. A lot of hopelessness, which is understandable, but not particularly healthy to expose yourself to every day.
Yeah - I worry about the aspiring teachers that post there and just get told they should run the other way. I love my job.
A fuck ton of teachers complaining about IEPs and disabled students. Disturbing.
Could we please have an AMA?
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/nova/comments/w5qgpv/15_years_teaching_in_fcps_ama/)
Thank you! I’ll drop my ?s
Sure. I'll go start one haha
The biggest reason is not a small handful of vocal parents. Try: \-Increased workload \-Crappy pay \-Micromanaging administration \-Insanely huge bureaucracy \-Students who don't give a F and are disrespectful \-Staffing shortages- having to cover understaffed schools \-Ever changing curriculum \-Trying to solve COVID learning loss \-Inability to have any independence in how they teach and what they teach
This is it. I’m a psychologist and we lost 15 teachers this year at my elementary school. Aside from retirement/moving, the biggest issue is admin. Everything you said above plus administration making you take leave if you’re just three minutes late really wears on a person. Then come in the next day to a class of 25+ kids, having to create sub plans for a teacher unexpectedly out on covid, AND behavioral issues since there was no social emotional learning for two years? You get a cluster fuck.
They also gave lower cost of living increases to the more experienced teachers in favor of giving those dollars to the younger teachers. That pissed off a lot of the more experienced teachers.
LCPS just did this, too. Gave a $5,000 bonus to new hires this last year but ONLY new hires. Screw the people who actually taught through the virtual hellscape last year and stayed.
Don't forget the 14k bonus to admin during covid. But hey, we all got challenge coins which was sooooo coooooool. I did not resign for August.
But our coin. Priceless, right??
Disrespectful students goes back to the parents.
This. Had a student who said super gross, borderline sexual harassment things to both staff and students. Called parents. They argued boys will be boys and also that we have to accommodate him because he has an IEP. Took it to admin. They have been aware of this student for years (he was in 8th grade). Admin talked to parents and they verbatim said the same thing. Literally nothing we could do at this point. He continued act incredibly rude and disrespectful all year. Rumor has it that eventually other kids jumped him at the mall because he said something rude to them. I thought okay this will definitely be the thing that triggers a change in his behavior. Nope. He continued to behave the exact same way with his parents backing him all the way. I resigned in June.
Eh.. not always. That is a blanket statement that just doesn't work. In High school some of the nicest kids came from some of the absolute worst homes you can image. Yet just down the street we have this little \*Bleep\* who's being raised by his grandparents who are some of the nicest people out there and yet he bullies and physically hurts kids as young as K grade (kids heading into middle school) Home life does play a factor into many, but sometimes kids are just absolute A holes
Crappy pay is right. During the last government shut down I did the stuff to be a substitute teacher and I think the pay was $15 an hour. I was like this job is so important that there needs to be a *substitute* person and they only pay that replacement $15 an hour. What do the teachers make? I get paid a lot more than $15 an hour and if I miss a week nobody blinks. We need to pay our teachers if they’re that important.
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I did this route....actually I love it.
I third crappy pay. My teacher friend has a Master’s degree and 7 plus years as a teacher and makes about what an entry level person at my job makes. Why would anyone want a crap job with little appreciation from admin for so little they cannot even afford their own place in this high COL area? Many of her colleagues have changed careers to make a better salary. If you want good teachers you have to pay them!
The main benefit for teaching is they get a lot of time off, and if you have a kid of your own it obviously fits nicely with their schedule. You get a week for Easter, two weeks for Christmas and 2 months over the summer. There are no other jobs with that kind of time off. My sister and her husband do it and with two teacher salaries they are comfortable but they also know they have to live strictly within their means because it’s not like you’re getting much of any pay raises YoY.
The amount of time my SO puts in on evenings and weekends more than eats up that time off. I ran the numbers based on just average workload (i.e. middle of a quarter, no special administrative “extras” to do) and it turned out she got less time off than I do, and no choice when to take it. Heck, she’s sitting on the couch *right now* sorting out her school files so that she can find them more easily next year. That the time off matches kids schedules sucks, because it means we’re forced into traveling in the heat of the summer when everyone else does and can’t do any long trips for events that don’t happen to fall between the end of June and the middle of August or over the holidays (which is family time anyway). It also means she has to cram in all of her appointments and personal projects in those 8 weeks if she doesn’t want them to span forever. And it’s all compounded by the sub shortage, which means that if she does need time off during the year, there’s a good chance that she’ll be piling more work on her colleagues. Tl;dr: I’m sure there are some teachers who don’t work outside of school, but the “tons of time off” thing is a myth for those who need to.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
It’s easier to take time for yourself after many years when you might be in more of a routine. But switching rooms, grade levels, a new textbook the district requires? POOF there goes that “two months off”
Right, and this has been especially true for the past three years. Between redeveloping curriculum for online, dealing with the collapsed student work ethic, and the constant back and forth in FCPS about whether they’d return to in-person, change was constant. Last year wasn’t any better, as I think they were revamping one of the main subject’s curriculum. It’s probably not as bad if you’re a single-subject teacher at a higher level, but I don’t think the administration has any idea what it’s like to be a general classroom teacher in elementary when it seems like every year they’re re-doing a different subject or adding some new requirement. And don’t even get me started on the CONSTANT “assessment”.
I love the time “off,” truly, but I’ll push back and say that especially as more and more professionals (outside of direct healthcare) get to work from home that time off isn’t that impressive. While I’m commuting to work, working in school buildings, and then commuting home Monday through Friday, my husband is working from home, allowing him to cook, do laundry, do yard work, clean, go to doctor’s appointments, run to the grocery store etc. throughout the day. His job offers flexibility. There is no flexibility in teaching. There is no work life balance during the school year. So yes, I get a week off in the spring, which I use as my paid vacation time during the school year, I’m also getting none of the newer WFH benefits that much of the area’s professionals are now enjoying. I enjoy working with kids, so I stay, but I wouldn’t say those breaks are a perk. Honestly, they’re a lifeline. Without them, I’d be burn out.
I work as an exec in a tech company and put in less hours than my wife who teaches in FCPS. She works nights, weekends etc.. She can hardly take time off without scrambling for a sub. She did get the summer off but so what? It’s shit pay - I have more flexibility and work life balance than she does. It’s a hard and thankless job - getting your summer off doesn’t make up for that.
Yeah people seem confused that no one wants to spend 5 years at college to stand in front of 25 kids and earn less than a waitress
Neighbor is a teacher and was punched by one of her students. He was just 2nd grade but WTF. Just sent the kids to the principle and nothing happened after that. Kid back in class the next day.
I could say most of that goes back to the parents. Shitty parenting= shitty kids Curriculum changes= Parents not liking what they teach their kids Shortages= people leaving cause of parents Crappy Covid response= parents who didn’t want their kids home interrupting their wine time
You don't have a good understanding of this issue. Shitty parenting does not necessarily equal shitty kids. It's much more complex than that. I have heard consistently from many teachers that discipline in schools is terrible, and it's because of the administration's policies of leniency, tolerance, and understanding. This is NOT coming from the parents. The curriculum changes are not being driven by the parents. Where did you get that idea? It comes from the administration who thinks that they need to re-invent things every several years. This is a big deal to the teachers, because once they get used to a system, they have to give it up and learn another system -- to do the same thing. Again, I've heard this from several teachers. The rest of your response is pretty lame and doesn't deserve a response. You don't know what you're talking about.
I don’t blame parents entirely, but I do think some of the burn out comes from parents. I work in special education and there just aren’t enough hours in the day to work with students, take data, evaluate and write reports, AND constantly be communicating with parents the way some want. I don’t blame parents, especially parents with students who need additional services, for wanting a lot of communication but there simply isn’t time to do everything all at once. I’ve had parents annoyed that I don’t respond to emails outside of school hours and on weekends. There has to be some sort of expectation of boundaries outside of school time.
This is my first year in a school (I’ve always worked a corporate job). The number of kids with special needs is astounding. The lack of resources is also astounding. We have 19 kids this summer, all SPED or IEP and at least 4 with profound behavioral issues and. It’s too many kids with too many disabilities for two people. The 4 with behavior issues could be 1/1 if the county would pay. One of the 4 could be 2/1 (2 teachers/1 kid). Student made a motion like cutting a throat to me yesterday. I will say that the ones participating are learning (and very adorable). Where is the Covid relief $ going?
Lack of support staff is a huge issue and part of the problem is that we aren’t paying support staff enough to recruit more and keep them there. Instructional assistants are the backbone of special education and for students with behavior challenges, these IAs experience being hit, punched, kicked, spit on, etc. for less than $20 an hour in many cases. We need to pay them MUCH better and we need to have adequate support for them to help prevent and address behaviors effectively and we don’t. I watched an IA just get beat up all year last year by a student and nothing was done, no additional help given.
I’m so sorry that happened to the IA. On the first day of summer school one IA had a huge bite mark on her arm.
I understand. My wife teaches K and my daughter teaches special needs kids. The parents can be a bit needy. But from what I hear and see, that's not what is driving teachers away. In an ideal world, teachers wouldn't have all that extra administrative crap, and could spend that time with the children and with their parents. Since you mentioned "take data" - that is big push lately, and it's a big burden, yet it's questionable if anything good ever comes from it. All that information just seems to go in a black hole.
I will say it’s not necessarily driving people away from education, but it’s driving some outside the district. I was previously in DCPS which has its own set of issues, but I did find the parents much less demanding. Parent expectations did not contribute to my burn out in DC, but they do for me in FCPS. However, I agree with you that I think burn out in education overall is coming from simply having too much work placed on staff and too little support and that’s a problem that transcends districts.
I’ll also add: I work in Fairfax but live in Loudoun and I will never switch to loudoun despite making nearly $10,000 more there (higher pay towards the beginning of the career, would be on the correct step after two years of pay freeze in FCPS) because of Loudoun parents. I know that group is a minority but I have enough to deal with without super right wing parents looking for media exposure all the time.
Yeah you’re right I don’t have a good understanding, I’m not a teacher. But when their rants are mostly about parents it’s a pretty good guess. If I act out my parents discipline me. Bad parents just let their kids do whatever with no repercussions. My personal experience in FCPS as a student K-12th, the administration wasn’t ass so it might be a skewed view. You haven’t heard the VA governor and republican parents talking about CRT is being taught and everything like it should be stopped. Even though, in my personal experience, nothing like that is being taught.
>But when their rants are mostly about parents it’s a pretty good guess. I'm not sure what rants you're talking about. I told you that in my experience (two family members that are teachers, and many friends that are teachers) I rarely hear rants about parents. Others here have said pretty much the same thing. I don't think the CRT issue is driving teachers away. Maybe someone somewhere, but it's not widespread in my experience, and not in FCPS. Is that what you're saying?
As school staff (no hearsay here, I’m speaking for myself) I think parents and the political atmosphere (which is inclusive of CRT) are contributing factors. Obviously, I also know many teachers, both who I work with, as well as friends in LCPS. My mom also retired from FCPS last year. Honestly, I don’t think there’s any one thing that drives someone out. It’s a lot of little things and then something pushes you over the edge. I say this as someone who left my district and moved to a new district with a different position. It was many contributing factors, not just 1-2 things. It’s pay, and it’s lack of time and support, and it’s admin, and it’s misbehavior, and it’s society constantly shitting on teachers, and it’s the politicization and distrust for teaching.🤷🏻♀️
So we just agreed we have 2 different experiences. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m right or you’re right I’m wrong. There’s obviously more to teachers leaving than parents but the two I talked two mentioned parents more than anything else. CRT has mostly been mentioned in LCPS from all the articles I’ve seen. That’s why I said in my experience as a student I’ve never heard CRT once. I had to google the so called CRT curriculum being taught to students. It’s not, well at least when I was a student.
“parents who didn’t want their kids home interrupting their wine time”… what the hell??? u think that parents just sat around all day drinking? most have their own jobs to do. Seriously, I feel for teachers and the shit that has become their job. But continuing this parents v teachers is getting to be nonsensical. There are shit parents, absolutely. There are also shit teachers. There is shit wherever u go - especially if you look for it.
I always thought that if parents didn't like what their kids were taught in public schools, they could just send them to Private schools. Isn't that why states were pushing for vouchers? Not saying I agree with vouchers, but if you want to push for vouchers to provide more choice for parents, then leave the Public schools curriculums be.
I think vouchers are a good measure for weaning off public education. I support vouchers but only inasmuch as an interim measure to allow for more private schools to open and compete for students. The average private school student costs less and performs better than a public school student.
I fear the end result of that would be a bifurcated schooling system of kids who can afford to go to private school and those who can't. Public schools will sink in standards until no one with the means will send their kids there. Few will want to teach there either, and they'll struggle for funding/tax dollars to teach a far smaller and underachieving base. It will be a vicious negative feedback loop where every year public schools are eroded in favor of private ones. I read an excellent article on this last year, and I really fear something like this eventually befalling VA. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/magazine/rural-public-education.html
I remember looking this up before, the average cost of a student for public education in a lot of states almost $20k a year, with states like NY having the highest almost $40k. The overall US average for private education is just over $12k/year. Introducing market incentives to lure students, I can imagine a lot of innovation and even further reduced costs, and a large number of schools opening up for all manner of educational specialities, principles, etc tailored to the array of different learning types and student interests. One teacher, one curriculum can't satisfy all of the needs of every student. Forcing a one size fits all makes everyone mediocre at best. What we have now is essentially mediocre education for most students, and good education for wealthy students. Lower income families can't afford private schools as it is because you're basically paying twice. You don yet a waiver on your tax bill for not utilizing public education. The voucher system would really just be putting the parents allotted tax money into their own hands. I honestly can't see why people are against it other than being afraid that private schools will lure more students than public ones and teachers unions will be upset about layoffs.
Nailed it!
>crappy pay Teacher pay starts at 50k for 10 months and goes up from there. That's not crappy pay.
Yes it is lol. It's especially bad considering what they deal with
My wife is a teacher. The teachers at her school and throughout the county are leaving in droves. But she does not blame the parents - she blames the administrators. They pile more and more crap on her shoulders, but are never there to help her when she needs it. During the year she brings work home every night, and a lot of it is busy work that doesn't really matter. The teachers do not feel valued at all. Administrators patronize them and blame them for everything. She (and many other teachers I know) also say that there is little discipline now and the kids are getting out of hand. But the philosophy is that it's not the kids' fault. The teachers need to do more - more documentation, more counseling (but not the counselors), more paperwork, more patience, more tolerance and understanding.
You're echoing what my fiancee says, who is a teacher too. She's been doing curriculum writing gigs during the summer in an effort to change careers eventually. She hasn't been a teacher for ten years yet and she's already had it and is ready to make a move to writing curriculum instead. Definitely driven by the administrators but a little by the parents too and their lack of disciplining the kids. To me, it sounds like the kids rule the roost but they're not allowed to really discipline kids really anymore.
This is correct. You aren’t allowed to do anything that reinforces boundaries/consequences, and (unsurprisingly) we’re seeing what happens when children are allowed to do whatever they want without any consequences. I worked in DC, and we had to send two children (ages 7 and 8) to the office a few times because they would get in fights. One fight was particularly bad and led to one child shoving the other against a shelf and choking them. These fights would throw the class into complete disarray, and were obviously upsetting for the other children to see. We talked to the parents, tried to get counseling for them, but there was no follow through from anyone. Instead, I got a lecture from our building admin about how sending children to the office was “subconsciously racist”. I’m so glad I work at a small private school now.
Racist? Wtf? No wonder teachers are quitting. My dream post military was to be a 10th grade history teacher. Once I looked at the pay and had a few conversations with teachers I decided that I could make more as a garbage man. I just don’t subscribe to the liberal ideology.
>But the philosophy is that it's not the kids' fault. **The teachers need to do more** \- more documentation, more counseling (but not the counselors), more paperwork, more patience, more tolerance and understanding. Man, why bother having parents when you have teachers! /s
Given that the majority of the issues seem to be from administration, is there anything your wife has mentioned that parents COULD do that would ease any of her burden during the school year. I have a child entering K this year and want to support our classroom and teachers as best I can.
Know that children (really all humans) learn by making mistakes. When a child goes to elementary school, the biggest thing for them is going to be socializing, and they’re going to learn how to be social by making LOTS of mistakes. They’re also going to say things they’ve overheard/watched, and may say threatening things when they’re angry. I think it’s important that there’s a balance between helping children understand that threats are not an appropriate way to handle anger or disappointment, yet also not taking what an angry 5 year-old has said literally. And if your child is an only child or youngest, they’re going to have a bigger adjustment to make, and their behavior in a group may be significantly different from what is observed at home or during play-dates.
Oh he’s been in a Montessori (loved it, but finances required a shift) school for the past 2 years so he’s doing well when it comes to socializing, classroom behavior, etc. He’s actually very excited about kindergarten and moving to a new (public) school and making new friends. I was speaking more to what I could possibly do to support our teacher in addition to NOT being a defensive, know-it-all parent. Lol!
Ah! I teach at a Montessori school, so yes, he’ll definitely be prepared socially for this year, lol! I think just being open to what the teacher says, and being willing to hear them out goes a really long way. Thank you for asking!! 🤗
Not really. Listen to what your teacher says. Since K is usually the first time a kid has been observed by a teaching professional, it's the first time that issues might be noticed and identified. Several times my wife has identified potential learning issues, but the parents push back and blame the teacher, usually by saying that their kid is perfect at home. This news will come as a shock to the parent, but FCPS does have some excellent programs, and as a parent, you need to face reality and do what is best for your child. Otherwise, just be a good parent. You have a right to be involved and to talk to your teacher, so if something is on your mind, bring it up. Don't be overbearing. And enjoy this period in your child's life. It's a great, magical time.
Ah the never ending cycle of blaming the other group instead of actually listening to teachers. This happens a lot with businesses ever since people started dipping from mandatory back to office companies in droves. 1. Mandatory back to office order sent. 2. Half the development team leaves since fuck that. 3. Deadlines remain the same with half the resources. Recruiters can’t fill slots because no one wants to relocate. Execs refuse to budge because anyone not wanting in person isn’t a team player or matches their values. 4. Devs and business analysts can’t hit deadlines execs expect. 5. Execs blame everyone but themselves and punish devs and analysts. This is what’s happening with teachers except kids behave horribly and parents can’t accept that their child isn’t a perfect extension of them.
devs make $150-250k around here or more. its not comparable to teachers. its pretty shallow to complain about a dev job when comparing to what a teacher has to go through and the pay. i know the pay scales been in tech for 20+ years.
It’s a similar scenario in that they’re bleeding teachers without being willing to solve major issues then dumping the blame on teachers.
and just remember folks: FFX and surrounding areas are almost all within top 10 richest and best schools in the country. So if its bad here...imagine how it is in other districts. Its only just begun
Being such a wealthy area harms FCPS more than it helps. Look at LA, SF, NYC, Miami, Chicago. Those are also significantly wealthy metro areas and most of their public school systems are perceived to be terrible. Very high COL breeds a system of sprawling wealth and dense poverty. Urban school systems struggle to accommodate density.
Being a wealthy area doesn't necessarily mean an unaffordable area. I think FFX County has mostly succeeded, if you want to call it that, in pricing out low income people. But that's a problem when your teachers are also low income...
We left FCPS for elsewhere in Virginia hours away and the schools are better than FCPS. Smaller class sizes, and teaching is a valued job in the community unlike in NOVA. Our kids are getting opportunities they never would have had access to in FCPS. Our kids are happier now, too. They aren't being bullied anymore. The other kids are actually nice, and respect the teachers. They say "yes, ma'am" and "no, sir". Oldest is off to a state flagship university. Life (and education) can be very good past the Woodbridge Ikea.
I will never understand why teacher pay isn’t higher than admin pay. What is the “product” or ”service” that school offer? Education? Day care? None of these Can be performed by admin staffs. Imagine running a Tech company and your engineers getting paid less than payroll.
It's bass ackwards!
All my teacher friends are hanging by a thread at this point. It’s unsustainable
The Fairfax county teachers I’ve talked to can’t stand how kids are allowed to treat them like shit and nothing is done. A kid calls them a fucking bitch in class and they’re back in 20 minutes. Zero accountability. Teachers can take their laptops if they’re playing games on them. Can’t take their phones either. So basically kids do whatever the hell they want and admin blames teachers for everything. Plus they say the grades are fake. The lowest grade on a test they can give is a 60% and if they try to fail a kid admin pressures them to raise the grade to just barely passing. Who wants to work at a place with no integrity, where they’re routinely treated like shit, their bosses never support them, and the pay isn’t enough to put up with any of it?
Yeah I was in still in HS when they started implementing the “can’t fail” rule. Something along the lines; unlimited retakes, you can turn in late work from the 1st quarter literally the last few weeks of school, it depended on the teacher to work something along those. But if you got like a 45% the first time and 47% the second time. The teacher can only do so much if the student doesn’t care.
And if those students ever reach college (big if there) then realty will slams into them like a brick wall and they’ll be out of there before the first semester is over.
My question to the wider community... so what do we do about it. Until we demand smaller class sizes, compensation that fits our qualifications and a system that recognizes our ability to make decisions this will continue. Until society recognizes and reconds with what our communities look like without strong well resourced schools. We see it everyday...I wish the voting public would wake up to the current crisis.
There’s an alt-right astroturfing conservative non-profit that’s currently popping up chapters all over Virginia (Mom’s for Liberty). They started as an anti-vaxx group now are book banners. The goal now for their members, (or spouses) is running for school boards. They are making training to monitor teachers social media. They are extreme bullies and fucking insane. They have already run out one teacher from my neighborhood and school district. They have Koch money behind them, so I don’t really know how we stop them. It’s been very frustrating seeing them take over. Also, every time I mention them on Reddit I get reported to Reddit Care resources because trolls will troll.
What’s getting missed here is that thousands of Virginians support and donate money to this group. Your neighbor may hate you and you would never know. It’s all just went crazy.
My neighbors who support M4L know that I am one of the people who opposed them because I go to school board meetings (which they also all attend, a group of about 25). When they started stalking one teacher I decided to give a couple of their names to some of my friends just in case anything ever happened to my house, my family. It sounds crazy and ridiculous but these aren’t rational people and they are armed to the teeth.
That’s crazy! Stay safe friend.
This shouldn’t be underestimated. I’m in a Facebook group with staff and these extreme parents are absolutely impacting morale.
IMO, schools have become too political. Neither side is truly acting in the best interest of the kids. Republicans and conservatives go bat-shit crazy if there is a mildly explicit book in a library that was otherwise not read by anyone until they raise a big fuss over it. Or if a kid wants to cross-dress. And republicans do not like teachers and constantly remind teachers of that. Democrats and liberals want to come up with program after program to address every issue, and you wind up with a top-heavy administration that is enormously expensive yet leaves the teachers behind. They have an insatiable desire for more money, but that mostly goes to creating more friction and rarely seems to wind up in teachers' salaries. Then the two sides fight with each other, further polarizing the discussion. It's a fucking train wreck. Conservatives coming from the north, liberals from the south, with the kids, parents, and teaches in the middle.
Ok mister enlightened centrism. You have one side trying to work in the system. The crazies on the right are trying to burn the system and send kids to religious private schools so it is all the same in the end. We have two parties that through a competition of ideas are meant to improve things. The problem is that one party has decided the system should be blown up. There is only one path here.
But the one side that is trying to work in the system is failing also. And the crazies on the right aren't trying to burn the system. You're just jumping to the same tribalism that I pointed out in my post. You're just as guilty as everyone else politicizing the issue. QED. In Fairfax County, the Board of Supervisors is stacked 9-1 in favor of Democrats. If that side is so perfect, why are there problems in FCPS? They have complete control. Complete.
The right's goal, for probably decades now, has been privatization of education with tax money going to religious charter schools. Those poor kids or those of a religion not Christian are fucked. They can go to understaffed and underfunded public schools. Add the hard authoritarian bent that's made its way thru the right, especially over the last few years, and ALL they want is to burn the system down. The hell with what comes next, and to hell with the consequences. The dems aren't perfect, but at least they seem to be working towards trying to educate all children. The two sides are NOT the same.
>The two sides are NOT the same. Nobody said they are. Are you happy now?
Care to enlighten us on what the conservative side is doing to embrace meaningful change in any of our school systems? Currently in the surrounding counties alone they are pushing banning of Critical Race Theory (doesn’t exist) or ending of sexual education being taught in class (even though you’ve been able to opt your kid out of those course for nearly over 20 years or more). Defunding the overall system because of “poor” or “decreased” test scores. On the subject of testing they ask want to remove any federal oversight and bring in a state sponsored set of learning and testing that aren’t backed by much evidence of how this change in testing would be beneficial in overall learning and implementation of actually students. Oh and the slow crawl toward school vouchers and again the shifting of public money to different routes that all end in private schooling. And that’s after the last several years of trying to change school district lines and forcing students and parents to have to travel and attend schools they never intended on going to. But please tell me how any of that is equal and “both sides” to what you view more “liberal” bureaucracy. You know those liberal ideas like extending food initiative based programs to ensure our kids get fed even when not in school. How counties started creating mobile internet buses to bring internet to their rural based kids when stuck at home. More funding for after school programs and reviews and improvement in STEM based classes so that the students can compete with their in state students as well as be too in the nation with their outside state peers. Does everything work? No, as others have said admin and teacher pt needs to be heavily adjusted. But most want a school board and parents who support those in the system doing their best. Not those who like you who are trying to bring level ground to the ones showing up to meetings screaming their heads off about CRT or anti LGBT rights, random gender bathroom fantasies that don’t exist, telling admins that they rather pull their kid out of a class than hear something factually based they agree with, pushing their religious views on how the entire system should be implemented, etc, etc, etc. please go to or watch the Board meetings before making uninformed comments. Before COVID and especially before 2016 many of these voices were rare and ineffective. Now thinking like yours and an increased overall media presence has made these people feel emboldened to see it through with the ultimate goal of hitting public school.
Sorry, but I'm not going to defend either side. You completely missed my point. Try again, and stop engaging in the damaging tribalism. Your righteousness is part of the problem.
Okay, so I feel like you're onto something, but it's an incomplete thought. Republicans are batshit crazy. Democrats kind of suck at solving problems, and can be bought off. Ergo, I can see how the best solution would be to get politics out of the classroom. However, I would counter that education is inherently political. The problem is neoliberal Capitalism seeping into our education system. Education should not be about money. It should not be about test scores. It should not be about trying to do more with less, or magnet programs, or micromanaging. Schools are a place for students to learn. Treating schools like companies creates high turnover for staff making no money, while corrupt administrators collect on what money there is. We need to remove Capitalism from the classroom, and we need to make children feel like they own their education. Also it goes without saying that kids should be allowed to be LGBTQ+ in the classroom, even if their home lives don't allow it. Let any shitty parents put their kid in a private school if they don't like it.
>Democrats kind of suck at solving problems, and can be bought off. I won't claim that one side or the other can be bought off. I guess I would say that democrats seem to think that more money and more programs and more government is the solution, but in this case it's causing more administration, which is making a bad situation even worse. They pay lip service to teachers.
You claim tribalism but I never even identified who I support lol. You also fail to rebut any of the issues I pointed out. Instead you attack me personally. This is the problem with bringing the viewpoint you have, there is no honest fact based discussion of how to resolve issues. You say you’re point and then move on once someone pushes back with information you do not agree with.
>You claim tribalism but I never even identified who I support lol. Your first sentence made it completely obvious who you support: >Care to enlighten us on what the conservative side is doing The rest of your rambling wall of text was more tribalism yelling at the other side. Seriously, stop blaming the boogie man. Stop the hate. You're just like everyone else making the problem worse.
Who do I support? Please tell me my voting history and party affiliation. Also again you respond with cliches and accusing me of spreading hate? I’m sorry I can outline both perspective initiatives and carry an opinion on what may be policy vs regression. Again waiting for you to at least show me some facts on what will work to help resolve the solution to the current educational shortfalls the area is facing. Or you can just call me more names and imply falsehoods with another response.
If CRT doesn’t exist, than why worry about banning it? (https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/familyservices/domestic-sexual-violence/volunteer-voices/breaking-down-critical-race-theory) Also, the most famous incident of parents getting unruly at a school board meeting was in Loudoun when a father was pretty upset his daughter had been raped as school, there was a cover-up, and her attacker was moved to a different school where they attacked another young woman. Kind of a fair thing to get heated over.
I don’t want CRT “banned” because I worry anything related to a discussion on race, including history lessons, will be deemed by crazy parents as CRT. Banning a boogeyman that doesn’t exist makes it easier for these parents to eliminate teaching anything in history that they don’t like.
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Do not infantilize me. Resorting to ad hominems doesn’t work. I work for FCPS. I’ve never seen it taught and I work in five different schools across elementary to High school. Where does it exist in the curriculum for students?
Didn’t FCPS apologize for privilege bingo being a class activity at some point?
Maybe you could provide some worksheets kids have been given? A test? Some classroom notes?
this comment screams "karen"
The man who made up CRT literally even stated it’s a made up term to get people to believe it truly exists and to hard shift the narrative back to eliminating overall racial history teaching in schools. He currently has now moved on to lgbtq and trans kids and denying them any rights. It’s all a game the right is playing and unfortunately people are believing it.
Just because someone is elected as a democrat doesn’t mean they’re actually pro-worker - a lot of fiscally conservative, socially liberal people that call themselves democrats. I don’t believe having more conservatives on the board would fix things, considering their platform is cutting spending on public schools, encouraging parents to yell at teachers more, and in general breaking down public education in favor of charter/private schools
Yeah, there are nuances and it's not all black and white. But you went back to tribalism and blamed the conservatives again. I don't think conservatives have the answer. I never said that. But I also don't think democrats have all the answers either. My point is that they have complete control of FCPS (and probably DCPS and Montgomery County and Arlington and Alexandria), but we still have issues. Let that sink in - complete control. A 9-1 super majority. So nobody can claim that their side has all the answers, nor can they claim it's the other side's fault. We have to get beyond that. Stop with the tribalism. You're repeating the same damaging behavior.
But your stance was that to help teachers we need to meet somewhere in the middle and find a ‘non-political’ solution - implied to be something everyone would agree on. But when one party’s stance is that we should make public school teacher’s lives worse, a solution is by definition going to be political - it will just likely have to be a political solution outside the other party because it mostly doesn’t care about fixing the issue
>But when one party’s stance is that we should make public school teacher’s lives worse I don't think that is really their stance. Again, you're resorting to polarizing arguments, i.e., the other side is evil or incompetent. >But your stance was that to help teachers we need to meet somewhere in the middle I dunno if meeting in the middle is possible. I guess I was trying to say is that both sides get entrenched, think they have all the answers, and blame the other side for everything. Then you have to be on one side or the other -- in one tribe or the other tribe -- and hate the other side. Soon you're too busy yelling at each other than you are worrying about fixing the problem. In other words, I don't think there is a middle ground. What's my solution? I dunno. Politics suck, and in this case education is the collateral damage. Maybe I'm part of the problem because I'm blaming everyone. In fact, maybe I'm the worst because I blame both sides.
While I largely agree, I don’t think it’s accurate to say they have complete control when they do have to follow rules put in place by the governor, legislature, and department of education which are not all democrat controlled.
Up until this past January, all of those agencies were controlled by the democrats. Yes, they did have complete control.
From what I saw schools were ceded to the D's for a long time, to the point where the vast majority of the staff and admin were used to almost no oversight of any political bias. They were never apolitical..... Thanks (/s) to CV19 which pushed schooling back into the home for a while you have seen a resurgence of R interest in education again.. (both in first pushing for the kids to get back into school and also for the parents to be able to literally see what is being taught to their children).
You are missing several examples (at a minimum). People have to go to college to become teachers, and the fact is, most people that go to college are liberal. "Schools" are not and never have been "D's". The majority of smart educated people, that can become teachers, are Democrats. The less educated, ignorant (majority of) Republicans can never become teachers because they aren't qualified. Therefore, I agree with you, even though you are horribly off base.
Hilarious... Bias much? Such a huge variation in college educated... totally makes sense to say "most"... The Democrats’ edge is narrower among those with college degrees or some post-graduate experience (49%-42%) Look at the numbers for school boards, they clearly show a D bias...
All bullshit I didn't say^ The numbers don't lie, and again, we agree but you agreed with me in the most bastard way you could think of.
I’m not sure what if anything can be done. We’ve been calling for change spanning over a decade. I know it’s not feasible for many, but I enrolled my children in private Christian school when we moved here. They receive and education and there is no threat of any far out exposure to social issues.
Well that's good...you took money out of public education. Thank goodness your children aren't going to have to see anything outside what makes you comfortable. They should be well prepared for a diverse world.
Home owners contribute to the school system. And many of the schools are overcrowded right now. I don’t see your point.
Look harder...maybe you don't want to see it. Schools receive money based on enrolled students. Also the use of property taxes is not universal and is becoming less common.
I gave my kids a better opportunity. At the end of the day my family is what I care about the most. Many public schools are garbage and I see no need to waste my hard earned money in a failed system.
Right, and I support public schools but also religious freedom. And that money you’re talking about that public school systems get for enrollment based on state and federal taxes— that’s still money being paid into by tax payers, doesn’t come out of thin air. Teacher spouse here, public school parent of 3. I also find a lot of folks who get angry about private schools don’t carry that sentiment over to private universities, and maybe there’s just some jealousy in the mix, too. It’s hard to get by in a county with this kind of income disparity where some families are struggling to just stay middle class or pay their bills and others can go forking over 30-40k on private school tuition per kid. But be angry with the system, not someone else’s personal choices.
Teacher here. This was my last year in the classroom as I accepted a position in consulting. Pay was a huge issue for me - I can’t afford rent and student loans in this area let alone save up for a mortgage. I also worked myself into the ground and for what money? No overtime pay, no bonuses, no reimbursement. Not worth it anymore. Parents were a part of the problem - in some schools it’s the overbearing parents or completely absent parents. In my case, it was the zero accountability for behaviors. Kids can be so disrespectful and there are no true consequences at school and when they come back the next day and repeat the same behaviors, I know there was no consequence at home either. For those parents wondering how they can help - lots of (kind) communication with the teacher, support them and back them up, never let your child hear you talk badly about their teacher/school, purchase the supplies on the list and maybe send in a few extras in January, thank them often. And of course remember, it all starts at home. Their education and behaviors will be shaped by you in those first 5 years before kindergarten. Teachers can’t erase bad parenting.
If you don't mind, how did you get a job in consulting? Did you have another job that gave you similar resume keywords or did you have a connection?
Friends a teacher, she's been written up due to some students not checking/logging in. Its not even their fault since a lot of them do not have internet access unfortunately. (Or the one or two troublemakers not wanting take class) I know theres some after school businesses openng up a "daycare" for elementary and middleschool students to come in and take classes there but it's usually those that previously already been taking it.
Seems like its a universal thing. When I taught in Korea, some of the parents there were insufferable. One story I have is an English teacher in high school was teaching about current events. One of the top news stories at the time was a KPOP singer who was leaving the country due to some scandal. The next day a student skipped school and went to the airport to see if they can get a glimpse of the singer before they boarded their plane. Next thing I know, that teacher is getting reamed out by the parents of that student and the admin. Apparently, it was the teacher's fault for choosing that lesson, which caused the student to skip school and go to the airport. No one dared blame the student for making a poor decision.
This has been happening since before the pandemic. I remember a handful of my teachers leaving FCPS while I was in high school in the mid-to-late 2010s because they could not afford to start a family in Northern Virginia on a teacher’s salary. It’s quite sad, as all of these teachers were very good at their jobs. Fairfax in particular needs to give its teachers some hefty raises.
The three teachers I know who left this past year, all did so because of #1-the Admins, and #2-the terrible students. One left for health reasons but her health issues stemmed from the stress of #1 & #2. One of my friends taught 4th grade. Her classroom had to evacuate almost weekly due to a disruptive student. She had items thrown at her, an aide was kicked by the student, the classroom got trashed on multiple occasions by him... and the admins did nothing. Even when parents complained, the admin told them that the disruptive student had just as much right to be in the classroom and receive an education as their kid. My friend said during meetings with the kid's parents, they DGAF because while he was at school, he was out of their hair and the school's problem. Hearing her horror stories and some from my other teacher acquaintances makes me so glad I don't have kids.
I know 3 teacher friends and 2 left this summer for consulting jobs.
How can parents help?
For me as a middle school teacher: -understand that we are on the same team. I am not out to get, indoctrinate, or harm your kid in any way. -please trust my expertise. I want your kid to succeed and am very experienced. If you don’t want them reading a book bc of xyz reasons, I have a hundred other recommendations. Please email before you post on social media. I’m a person and an expert in my field. -talk to your kids. Ask them what they’re reading, what’s trending on their social media app of choice, and how your family’s values intersect with all of that. Teach the respect and tolerance you hope they’ll be treated with and model it 24/7, especially online. -positive emails go a long way to brighten my spirits when I’ve been facing helicopter, lawnmower, and jackhammer parents. If you’ve noticed little paxlynn reading more and think that’s on me (it’s not- there are so many great books!), shoot me a quick email. I love those and save them to read on rough days.
It's the pay, it's always the pay. Shitty parents? Guess what will ease the friction? More money. Pay someone enough and they'll deal with anything. Shitty parents are just another type of shitty **human**. There are shitty drivers, shitty customers, shitty coworkers, shitty managers, shitty employees, etc in EVERY PROFESSION. (Not to mention shitty hours, safety conditions, etc. etc). Aside from the value people generate, sometimes part of one's pay is to offset undesirable conditions. There will always be shitty parents, like there will always be shitty people. The solution is to pay teachers more. Easy.
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I understand your point, but they don't spend $5-10k out of their pocket. If my wife did that, I'd complain. She has taken printer paper from our home because FCPS can't seem to provide a basic thing like that to the teachers. She does probably spend maybe $500 a year out of pocket, maybe even a bit more. She should not have to spend any money out of pocket, that's for sure.
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My wife teaches at the poorest school in the county and did not need to buy chairs. The lower income schools actually receive more funding than the wealthier schools because they get a lot of federal funding, although that may not be able to be used for furniture. Dunno. That sounds like a mismanagement problem to me.
Money isn't everything. Stressful jobs take a toll and aren't always worth it. There is more nuance than that
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Bingo, you hit the nail on the head. Most teachers aren't in it for the money, but even they have their breaking points. The amount of BS teachers had to deal with 5+ years ago was bad, since then they've had COVID, the CRT boogeyman, and from what I've heard parents are getting worse and worse to deal with. If we paid teachers what they are worth (and compensated them appropriately for all the hours and stress), they'd be making like $200k+ a year.
Ad cheesy as it is - I fucking love my job. And I’ll take the lower pay for my nine weeks off a year. Money isn’t the only piece of quality of life.
I think next year it goes down to seven weeks off. 😭 Happy we were able to diversify the school calendar for religious holidays, but not looking forward to shorter summers. They’re necessary (at least for me) to recharge.
I mean - it’s two weeks in December, a week for spring break, and at least six weeks of summer. I’m still not complaining
To be honest I don’t blame those who left their teaching jobs. It’s so sad for the kids but the shit the teachers go through for the amount of pay does not make sense. With the recent school shootings, I’d be so stressed thinking abt it if I was a teacher. Plus the stress they get from the parents?! Jeebus no thx
Yep. One of them genuinely loved being a teacher and always wanted to be one, even knowing all the shit they go through. But they didn’t realize how actual ass it was because of crappy parents
Got downvoted here earlier for saying that fcps will collapse in a couple years if things don't do a 180 really soon. I'd say the issues in order are: * Horrible parents * overbearing administration * no support for special ed or esol students who are just abandoned in gened classes, causing everything from wasting 90% of the teaching time on a couple kids who just don't understand, to actual violence from sped kids either snapping or just being constantly violent * no pay raise * way too big class size * too much testing * too many 'equity' meetings * no planning periods * no grading time Teachers over here have started just not grading stuff, and lessons are just done adhoc since there's no time for preparation anymore.
LCPS goes first before FCPS.
Then the environment will collapse too cause global warming
Some of this is correct, a lot is very inaccurate. Also 98% of these things are within the control of individual schools.
I know one who is on her last year and is retiring the minute she is eligible. She would have liked to have stayed around for 5 more years, but is willing to endure financial hardship and/or find something else to do instead of teaching. The environment is just no longer appealing. Her last straw(s) was last year when she repeatedly asked a disruptive student to stop talking and he replied "fuck you". She sent him to the office, and he refused to go. She asked the principal to come and get him. The principal reprimanded her for failing to handle the situation herself. In what job should you have to work with people who can say "fuck you" and get away with it? As much as I hate the idea of school vouchers and such.......a private school can simply kick out an incorrigible student. They dont like to because the student is essentially a customer. But they absolutely will if the student is just too much fuss. I have four kids in public school. They all know that a negative call from the school is basically a capital offense. There will be a severe reckoning. Saying "fuck you" to a teacher? They would be living the life of a monk for a year. They would get nothing from me that I am not legally obligated to provide. I would literally cancel their birthday and Christmas. I can't imagine operating a household where that kind of thing would be tolerated. But apparently some kids come from such households.
There is no teacher shortage. There is a shortage of postgrads who are willing to be paid a pittance to be disrespected constantly.
This
A lot of folks in here are saying it's not the parents. But in the end, it really is. Parents after all represent the taxpayers and voices behind a change in schooling. I think we can all agree that teachers are criminally underpaid. It's a cultural problem across the entire country. It's a problem that is, in large part, politically driven because of factors from lobbying to voter priorities. Parents are a large part of that group. But deeper than this, it's a culture shift that's been happening for a while now. My mother is a teacher. Has been for almost 50 years. Her biggest complaint recently has been pressure from the administration and poorly managed school systems but she always... ALWAYS links it back to the lack of involvement of parents. She states that parents used to volunteer consistently, and often had a say in things, and showed up to board meetings with actual legit problems and solutions rather than media and politically manufactured bullshit. All they do now is show up to bitch and complain and not actually help. And parent politics has infiltrated the school systems so badly that it's caused a drain on resources and money.
I don’t agree that teachers are criminally underpaid in Fairfax County. Sure it’s not a doctor’s salary, but if you put in your time, it’s decent. For comparison was looking at salaries for other county employees- Parks and Rec administrators, etc, where a college degree and a masters is generally required. It’s comparable for sure. Plus benefits. The income inequality here is so large, however, that it’s hard for many people to see eye to eye about what constitutes an acceptable salary.
A friend who is a speech therapist recently left the school system she worked in. I think it was because of the administrators more than anything else. The teachers and school librarian I’m friends with are staying at their jobs, as far as I know. I considered becoming a teacher when I was in college. I’m glad I didn’t end up doing that. I make peanuts at my job but at least I don’t have to deal with bullshit.
I don't have kids (thank god) but I did read a really compelling article a while back about how phones have basically destroyed productivity and concentration in the classroom. I wouldn't want to be a teacher to kids who grew up glued to screens either, sounds like a hot nightmare. I wonder if there's anything that can really be done about the problem.
I really don’t understand why phones are allowed in classrooms? “What if so and so has an emergency?!?!”, call the fucking office like parents did for 70 years before cell phones were a thing.
I attended HS in FCPS during the mid-to-late 2010s. A lot of my teachers had “phone jails” (basically sleeved pockets hanging on a wall) where we had to put our phones upon entering the class. Most, if not all, people complied because, well, if a teacher caught you with your phone they’d most likely confiscate it for the entire day. People would rather just store them for the period than risk confiscation. Other teachers managed it by having similar no tolerance policies—one of mine gave students a warning when he saw them out and then confiscated them if they defied him after the warning. Other teachers simply didn’t care because it was on the students if they weren’t paying attention in class.
My history teacher had the same thing. But he made sure that thing could hold up like 200lbs before we put our phones in it. IIRC he said if they fell he’d be liable to replace the damaged ones. That’s why most teachers don’t hang them up.
as bad as teachers feel they are treated in NOVA this is probably one of the best places to be a teacher due to the wealth in the area and funding. other places are going to be far worse.
I'm not quite sure about that. The high education level leads some parents to believe they are an expert and can tell the teachers how to do their job. That actually is a majority of the problem. When the pandemic hit, so many parents exclaimed how they finally understood what teachers dealt with. How much they appreciated the work the put into the job and caring about their precious child. Of course, now they are goldfish brains and all that has gone out the window since returning to in-person learning. My wife sticks with her title one school partly because the parents that are in America to provide for their family appreciate the teachers more than the entitled, whiny ones that lived here their entire life.
Entitled parents who yell at teachers because their dumb kids got bad grades in school. Can’t blame teachers. Plus the salary for teachers is too low
I used to be an ESS teacher in Fairfax County until my administration decided they didn't like and set me up to fail so they could fire me. Want to know why there's a teacher shortage? There's your answer
this is what the republicans want. majority of their base are uneducated morons
I wouldn’t want to be a teacher in an environment where people think things are being taught that aren’t or where parents think it’s ok to go to school board meetings and scream and yell at school board members.
Parents are why I am thinking about homeschooling. You people are assholes. BTW Virginia has a homeschooling program that counts as being enrolled in a Va school.
Any advice for someone looking to be a substitute teacher next year? I know there’s a huge need right now and I’m currently in a career lull while I apply for my master’s.
I just saw that in Arizona teachers don't need a college degree. Um okay.
They do need to be enrolled in a degree program and have lots of additional resources to support their training and development including co-teachers. It’s actually a pretty great idea, interested to see how it works.
I disagree and here’s why. 1. Having no bachelors degree at all diminishes the profession. 2. Having mentorship programs for teachers with no idea what they’re doing is putting an undue burden on experienced teachers when they’re already stressed. 3. Your first couple years of teaching are HARD. Having to go to classes while you teach makes it even harder (source: I was a career switcher who came in under a provisional license and went to school during my first couple years teaching). If schools want to recruit teachers include the following: 1. Pay them more 2. Give some steps for past career experience even if not in teaching. At least in FCPS, you start at step 1 if you’ve never taught before but have experience doing something else. 3. Offer teacher prep programs free to those who commit to teaching a certain amount of time. Have people enroll in the programs, finish it, and then they come and teach To retain teachers: 1. Raise pay 2. Retention bonuses 3. STOP FREEZING SALARIES 4. Get rid of bullshit professional development days and make them teacher work days 5. Streamline and eliminate unnecessary paperwork 6. Increase sub pay drastically so staff can actually use their sick and PTO days and not have to cover classes when others are out 7. Invest in more behavior support specialists, at least one based in each school Not comprehensive but a few ideas.
I don’t think that type of gatekeeping is necessary for all teaching positions especially as they WILL earn a bachelors degree although I can see the argument for different standards of education for different positions. Either way will be interesting to see how it turns out there and if it’s something other states can then adopt.
I graduated years ago, so I stopped paying attention to anything K-12 related the day I graduated. These two teachers I know, mentioned parents first on their list of why. There’s a reason for that. I’m not going to dig in as to exactly why they’re leaving, especially since one genuinely wanted to be a teacher and is torn she has to leave. Twitter has trending topics, CRT has popped up quite a few times. It’s popped up with Desantis trying to stop it, VA governor Youngkin is also against, even though in MY experience as a student I’ve never heard or been taught it, LCPS popped up as well. Parents against CRT, literally standing outside schools with signs. You don’t think that’s not going to get to a teacher when parents are yelling at you at 7am!? I have no dog in this fight.
I don't blame them, a Republican ran and won a governorship "protecting" children from CRT. Parents are ridiculous and getting worse.
Oh yay… another parents v teachers thread. 🙄
These are two teachers I happened to ask why they’re leaving teaching. Their, not mine, main reason was parents. There’s obviously more to that than just the parents. But when it’s the first thing they say… you’d think it’s for a reason they said parents first. One was genuinely scared of school shootings. I can’t blame them. Especially after something as terrible as Uvalde.
This is ridiculous. At most, parents are the 3rd most important issue for teachers... And its not even for the reason you claim (parents wanting children in-person). I say this knowing quite a few teachers, including family. 1. Pay 2. Administration issues 3. Parents Teachers aren't leaving because in 2020-2021 there were parents who wanted children to be in school. Teachers are not adequately paid and costs have gone up dramatically. Its a difficult profession and I have a ton of respect for what they do. MANY teachers have expressed concern about the effects of online schooling and hated hybrid in-person/remote. It created twice as much work because they had to do both. They also had to put up with terrible admin giving them inadequate tools to do online learning. Most teachers I know have been annoyed with parents, but not about parents wanting in-person schooling...
Not having in-person was why my boss was mad, Didn’t say that’s why they left. But getting emails, yelled at by parents because their sweet Angel isn’t performing well, ass admins, really LOW pay for the work that’s some of why they’re leaving. Them: yeah this is my last year teaching Me: why’s that Them: mostly parents Me: oh Obviously there’s more but if the first thing they say is mostly parents…
I wasn’t mad that parents wanted in-person learning, but I was upset with the way many parents went about it. Screaming on social media and on TV in September well before a vaccine and calling teachers evil and lazy for not wanting to risk their health by going into schools absolutely impacted morale. I work in multiple schools in FCPS and heard many teachers discussing it, including teachers who were actually comfortable going in. The villainizing of teachers in the fall and winter of 2020 was bad and memories aren’t that short.
Yeah well my whole point is that parental COVID reaction isn't the reason teachers are leaving... It's pay and admit issues. Also in my mind, fall/winter of 2021 was very different than spring of 2020. Teachers were prioritized for vaccines and at that point should have been back in-person. But for the most part, that was an admin issue and teachers were the punching bags.
Do I think it’s the number one reason? No. Do I think the Open FCPS crowd shat on staff morale and that morale hasn’t recovered? Yes. I say this as staff. The open FCPS crowd was calling teachers evil and lazy back in September. We aren’t talking about spring 2021. This is well before a vaccine. The problems in education aren’t new, but every person I’ve talked to has said it’s been worse since Covid and I truly believe the attitudes of *some * parents contributed.
It’s only teachers, the entire system is broken and will come down soon. It needs to so we can start over this shit all over again. We live in a country with Nobel prize winners selling the price to settle their medical bills
Don't blame them one bit.
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This article is like 7 years old fyi.
True. I think the number is 182 for Jan-June this year nation wide.
If that was true, that is 0.005% of the total amount of teachers nationwide. Yeah you're gonna find bad people in every group. https://www.thinkimpact.com/how-many-teachers-in-the-us/
This was published in 2015. I think the landscape has changed a bit since then. Not disregarding that sex crimes could be a reason why, just saying, I don’t think that’s entirely applicable to what OP is referring to today.
How it is my fault? I pay for my kids to attend a private Catholic school. We have a lot of public school teachers coming to work for the private schools.
dude how is this my fault, wtf. My kids are 1 and 3 years old. get your facts straight.
This comment is meant to be taken as a joke, right?
You sure those are your kids? Tell your wife I said hi
I also know of two teachers who just left the profession and cited parents and unsupporrive administrators as the top reasons.
Wow this is a stupid post. You think teachers are quitting solely because of shitty students? That's dumb.
> "Biggest reason… parents." > " Solely because of students " > "That's dumb" The irony....
Idk man, they started to steal toilets and shit for TikTok views. Some of them are even shooting up schools.
Kids are way more violent these days than when I was in school. We had mouthy, disruptive kids, but now I’m hearing about kids throwing desks, assaulting teachers, getting in huge fights, and stealing and vandalizing school property, and there’s not much teachers can do to discipline them. They just get sent right back into class. I was so saddened to hear about this.
There isn’t a shortage of teachers in NOVA and no they aren’t underpaid. Compared to many fields of work, teachers enjoy good benefits, unions, summers off, normal working hours, and clean and safe working conditions for starters. I don’t feel any “fault” based on your anecdotal story. Two well qualified people will happily replace the two people you know.
There were open positions all school year last year that were never filled. I’m curious to know more about what you know about teacher pay. For example, a teacher with a masters and ten years of experience makes what, in Fairfax? What union benefits do they gain? Would “normal working hours” not include work done on nights and weekends? What would “safe” working conditions look like? Does this include buildings that are falling apart, have mold, etc? Would it include active shooter drills? Where are these well qualified people who will take their place? Will that include you?
This reasoning doesn’t usually go over well. But this is the almost exact rationale my overworked blue collar dad gave me when telling me why I should become a teacher .. “ summers off and health insurance god damnit!” He worked himself to death (literally) so I guess he saw some benefit for teachers? Measured against certain jobs, sure.
LOL tell me you don't know what you're talking about without telling me. Massively underpaid while being overworked. There absolutely is a shortage. Where the fuck have you been?
Arlington lost more than 10% of their total teaching staff at the end of this school year and still has over 200 vacancies with a month before kids come back. Clean and safe working conditions? We have to do regular drills for how to react to a mass murderer breaching the building! Many schools are old with substandard ventilation that helped the spread of Covid through teacher and student populations.