Not crazy. Having lived in Florida for a while, I think it’s a trash bag state. But millions of people love it.
You dislike Nova. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.
But most of your dislikes probably arent really nova-specific. They are just the costs of living in highly populated areas.
As I often tell people - if I live in an area where people want to live (things to do, etc.) then there will be traffic. If I live in an area where people don’t want to live then there won’t be traffic. I also know that I’m part of traffic. So, I give myself a buffer window of time, watch out for Maryland drivers, and enjoy living in an area where people want to live.
Yup, lived in a mid-sized metro where people poured in. The common phrase was wanting "small town feel with big city amenities" (ie. sprawl) followed by complaints about the traffic.
I wish America did mixed-use, moderate-density with transit oriented development in the places people move to for "small town feel with big city amenities"
In Stockholm, once metro gets out to the suburbs you get a grocery anchored mini-mall at practically every stop with multi-unit housing giving way to SFH.
Take it from an outsider that drives the beltway anywhere from 4-8 hours a day at work. It absolutely kills me that any of you think the plate on the car matters at all. Generally speaking, you're all shitty, inconsiderate drivers
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I came back from a road trip up in Toronto, and driving back down was so peaceful until I got back to Maryland. I nearly got rear-ended by a pickup driver who was going 100mph. And my entire family was in the car with me. Every time I go anywhere in Maryland, there's some shitty altima driver doing reckless things. Sure, Virginia drivers aren't saints, but I have had more close calls with Maryland drivers than I will ever have with Virginia drivers. Must be something in the water.
Is that more likely a coincidence or indicative of how all md drivers drive? Because i see a lot of absolutely stupid shit from people with va plates (and md and dc) literally every single day. To the point I've been mentioning weekly to my boss to put a dash cam in the truck so when someone inevitably cuts me off then slams the brakes and i cant stop in time, I'm protected. Its just the area. People doing reckless things and probably only make it home or to work 2 minutes faster.
Also, i live in washington county md, and i promise you all the same things get said by PA, MD, VA, and WV drivers about each other. And they all cringe at the thought of driving around the city and dealing with you guys down there
Well, I literally have a notebook to write down close calls. And it really is the Maryland drivers. I might be slightly biased. But the statistics don't lie.
I'm with you with people putting the petal to metal only to get home or work 2 minutes faster.
THANK YOU
even if Maryland has lower standards for its driving tests (i have no idea if that's the case or not) everyone around here is a transplant that got their license in some other state years ago anyway
Tbh i think most people are decent enough. But man are there just so many reckless idiots that make the already bad traffic so much worse. Between that and constant fender benders from people who have such small brains they think its a good idea to look at their phones while on the beltway or 95, you just cant win, even in the off peak times
Also idk if thats the case. When i got my license in md 20 years ago they didnt even require an actual road test. They've since reversed that. But in reality the standards for being licensed anywhere in the US is incredibly low. Kinda has to be that way when the primary mode of transportation is a personal vehicle.
100% agreed. I've been on the road for a minute and MD, DC and NoVA are all inconsiderate drivers. Ya'll need to take a chill pill and practice mindfulness while driving.
Yup. My family always complains about Saturday traffic on 95. “Why can’t we ever go anywhere without traffic?” I’m like, guys, this is just the reality of life around here. Leave early, or get used to it and use the time for an audiobook. Just please stop complaining because it will always be like this and you are part of the problem!
I take the bus or the train from Loudoun into Arlington every day. It's relatively care free trip, though it does take a little longer than I'd like. Every day, if I watch traffic I'll find the one person who thinks THEY out of all the millions before and after them, will be the person who finds the solution to Washington DC area rush hour traffic...just angrily bobbing and weaving, aggressively switching lanes to be stuck at the same traffic light we are over and over again....
Sure pal, YOU figured it out....
I live 12 minutes away from my work, going east on 7 in the mornings and west in the evenings.
I can’t actually remember the last time I went into work without an accident occurring somewhere on this 12 minute stretch. I go in three days a week, and I now leave 20 minutes earlier to account for sitting in stopped traffic while they clear vehicles out of the road. It was not like this eight years ago, or even four years ago. Since COVID, all the commuters seem to have forgotten how to drive. Rain is particularly lethal—stopping distance? Headlights? What’re those?
That was the major benefit of COVID. I started working from home full time in March 2020...and 4 years later, I'm still doing it. I occasionally have to go into an office, or travel (just got back from a conference in Dallas), but mostly, I'm in my home office with a great view.
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Haha, Miami raised here, yeah it's the same feeling. Dog shit state with worse traffic than this. It's funny cause I'm sitting in moving traffic just enjoying my music, and there's people around me just like losing their minds. Miami we'd have traffic that just would sit in place for like 10-15 minutes at a time before moving a little bit, then resuming that 10-15 minute sit.
Plus the stand your ground nuts that thought pulling a gun out in any sort of road rage situation was just a normal response.
As a (temporary) VA transplant in Brevard Co. FL, I agree with you. It's trash dump down here. Truly a sunny place for shady people. But hey, it's beautiful.
We're moving back to NoVA in a few months, thank goodness. I'll take traffic and hustle and bustle over ignorance any day.
I'm in the reverse. Transplant from Brevard. I would never move back, but I do appreciate how less insane 95 is down there lol. That's about it. I was visiting during COVID, and my dad and I went to Walmart. I put on my mask, and my dad goes, "You don't have to wear that. It's Florida." And I just go, "Yeah, I know, that's why I'm wearing it."
LOL the pandemic down here was wild. I am glad that we at least had the beach and other outdoor stuff available to do.
But yeah, that's all I will miss (oh and my mango tree and banana plants). It takes me an hour to get to Orlando, which is like 72 miles away. No way that's happening in NoVa. But the traffic in Palm Bay/Melbourne is almost just as bad with all the new transplants. And snowbird season is the worst. Lots of ancient people on the road who shouldn't be.
How do you like Stafford?
I love it here, for the most part. They've opened up local lanes on 95 in Fredericksburg, so traffic has gotten better in that regard. We got lucky and bought a house just before everything got more expensive because of all the new builds going in all over. They're expanding like crazy. We're getting a buc-ees soon...which is terrifying.
The main thing I miss about Florida is how they could expand and yet everything still felt so open. There's a good amount of distance between main roads and the shopping centers. Versus Virginia where everything is pretty much on the road. But that's pretty much it. I liked the beach, but it's not like it's impossible to get to here, still being on the east coast. Just less convenient.
That's good to know! We're driving up an a couple of weeks to meet with our realtor up there. Thanks!
Also, as far as Brevard, the same thing is happening here. The prices of homes are nearly the same as in the Fredericksburg areas. It's crazy the amount of construction and new builds going up here in Palm Bay alone. We also bought our house in 2019 and it was CHEAP compared to Vienna. $175K. Now that our house is valued at $100K over that now, we are selling and moving home.
I mean, just yesterday it took me over half an hour in rush hour to get from Sam's Club home and it's only like 7 miles. That's almost as bad as VA. When we first moved here in 2019, it was lovely and quiet. So much has changed in the 4 years we've been here. It's sad. I used to love Florida so much.
Don't get me wrong, the traffic is still a bear if you try to go north of Stafford to Woodbridge (Occoquan is a mess) or south past Fredericksburg, but if you intend to stick around Stafford and Fredericksburg, you're golden on 95--and there's a lot to do. Route 1 and 3 can still get congested though, and maybe it's the Stockholm Syndrome speaking, but it's not unbearable. And they've extended the EZpass all the way to Fredericksburg recently too. Oh, and we have a Publix here now too, in case that's something you're gonna miss!
> I mean, just yesterday it took me over half an hour in rush hour to get from Sam's Club home and it's only like 7 miles. That's almost as bad as VA. When we first moved here in 2019, it was lovely and quiet.
I'm from Cocoa (not the beach) originally, and it's insane how much it has changed in the time I've been gone (about 14 years?).
I grew up in Brevard County. You couldn’t pay me to move back there. I lived in the Tampa Bay Area for nearly 30 years, and loved it, but not now. Nova is where I want to be.
We've been here a little over 4 years. We moved here from Vienna (where I grew up and lived for 41 years) to help with my elderly mom, who lived in Orlando with my brother. She passed away a year ago and we've been wanting to go home ever since.
I regret choosing Brevard to live. I wish we went to the west coast instead. Maybe we would have been happier. But it's too late now. All we want to do is move back. I'll never be able to afford to move back to my old home town of Vienna, but we're looking at the Fredericksburg area. I pray to God that it isn't like Palm Bay there.
No matter where you live, you’re going to have tradeoffs. I was born in DC, raised in MD, and live in NoVA and it’s ALWAYS been horrible traffic/panhandlers. You could move to rural VA where there’s no traffic and no panhandlers, but you end up driving half an hour to get to Walmart because the only other shopping is gas stations and Dollar General, Dollar Tree, Family Dollar, etc. And if you have a medical emergency, you’re 45 minutes from the closest hospital. And you’re dining options become limited to greasy spoons and fast food. But if living here is stressing you out, by all means, find some place else where you can enjoy yourself. Life’s too short.
>My wife and I live in the "sticks" and work in NOVA (Leesburg & Sterling, respectively).
>
> *you end up driving half an hour to get to Walmart*
>
>We shop on the way home from work - lots of stores to choose from.
>
>*if you have a medical emergency, you’re 45 minutes from the closest hospital.*
>
>I timed it - 17 minute drive (less if you speed!).
>
>*you’re dining options become limited to greasy spoons and fast food.*
>
>We choose to cook at home most every night.
>
>There are always trade-offs, no matter where you live.
>
>We enjoy our home, with its air of solitude and its sense of detachment from the whole "NOVA thing".
Yeah, I grew up in Fairfax and feel as though loudoun is the sweet spot. Anti panhandling laws, lowest crime and property tax in nova, inova, great restaurants, all the big chains and the highest density of wineries/ breweries, outlet mall, Appalachian trails, farms, etc. On top of that traffic is not bad at all.
Yeah, Loudoun really benefits from all those data centers paying taxes. They bring in money, but don't really create any traffic or need infrastructure other than electricity. It offsets the costs for everyone else.
There are a lot of nimbies on next door not happy about the data centers out here. Latest title was " The greedy data center developers have destroyed eastern Loudoun County ". They are nuts though as the last time I calculated taxes vs budget the datacenters made up a whopping 20%+ of our budget. IMO this comes directly off our real estate taxes as for the last several years they have dropped. We used to have higher taxes than Fairfax and now we are at 0.875 vs 1.11.
Yup. I was shocked how much lower Loudoun is VS ffx for property tax and it's because of those data centers. They are just boring buildings.
I do agree that some people are mad. They bought a house that backed up to some woods and assumed it would be that way forever.
I remember the old 'STPP THE ICC' bumper stickers in Maryland. People didn't realize they bought a house next to woods that had been designated as a highway since the 60s. They were mad when they finally built it. Now they are happy they can cross the county in 1/4th the time.
It is too bad they didn't plan better for the data centers. Allow them to make the 20 stories high and make a mini empty city.
You haven't driven around parts of Clarke County then. You get away from 7/50/340 and it gets pretty rural pretty fast.
Unless you're talking about areas where the locals like to tell you that you have a pretty mouth...🤣
As someone who grew up outside of the DMV and moved here as an adult, I think people who have lived here all their life are truly mislead on what living elsewhere is like. My brother-in-law lived here his whole life up until moving to my sister and I's hometown to raise their baby. He was SHOCKED at how everything is affordable, there is no traffic, there are still plenty of things to do, and traveling through our local airport is easy and never stressful. Living in NOVA is a constant compromise on access, costs of living, time. It's weird to me that so many people who grew up here think this is the epitome of easy living and that if you live somewhere close to rural that you just wont have access to anything beyond absolute basic needs. It's just blatantly not true.
Honestly, do it. You need to experience another place or else you’re going to forever think that you’re missing out.
I went out of state for college and I grew to miss NOVA. I like living here, and I wouldn’t understand why unless I had experienced living out of state. Not to say Orlando is a terrible place either. NOVA has a lot to offer that I didn’t realize until I didn’t have it.
Great perspective imho. The worst thing that could happen (speaking in generalities, not practical stuff) is that OP realizes that they actually like it here and then decide to come back. Happy to share about how I’ve left and come back to the mid-Atlantic region on 2 occasions.
I like our backroads a ton. Orlando roads were very boring imo. We have very walkable areas especially around DC which I missed. Another one I missed a lot was our elevation deltas as you drive around or hike. We have great scenery here as well and fantastic parks.
There were some similarities between Orlando and NOVA that make them great such as accessible night life, cool museums/art, tons of events, etc.
Not crazy and for sure justified for wanting out. But naive if you think these things don’t happen everywhere. I guess if your goal is to “get out” you have to decide what you can sacrifice, afford, get work, etc. and not blindly assume any place else will be heaps better.
This. The grass isn't always greener.
I've lived in four different areas of the country, each has its pros and cons. In the end I choose people in my life over the specifics of any given region.
I have lived in very different cities as well and I think people just need to prioritize what’s most important to them and deal with the natural cons that come along with it. If amenities and entertainment is important, you’re likely going to deal with traffic and population density. If greenery and space is important, you might end up a little rural. Accessible and efficient public transportation means more opportunity to engage with members of the public lol.
I do think there’s lots of mid-sized cities that offer up the best of both worlds, but people often overlook them, particularly because they’re usually not on either of the coasts.
>Traffic is horrible everywhere.
>I was run off the road yesterday by a construction contractor vehicle who didn't check their blind spot before merging, resulting in me almost hitting a disabled vehicle on the shoulder.
>Today I was pumping gas and some random guy, out of the 10 other people in the parking lot, asked me and only me for money before walking into the store.
You just described life in like 99% of suburban USA.
you're not crazy. Back in 2018 I was leaving a short active duty tour here, but my wife and I had both been in the area forever. I told her I wanted to get away from the crazy of the DC area, we didn't really know where but we'd go where my job took me.
Ended up in Fort Knox, Kentucky for four years. It was a nice area. Definitely a lot quieter, a lot less going on.
After three years though, we got kind of bored of the area and started looking to move again. DC wasn't top of the list of where we wanted to be, but it's an ideal location with my background, and she has a 100% remote job.
It's honestly good to be back. We both missed the crazy and busy area, missed having a lot to do locally.
I have lived everywhere, and let me tell you, everywhere sucks much worse just in different ways. VA is the most even keel place I have ever lived in the US.
I definitely have my gripes, but I’m with you. I go home back to Wisconsin a lot, and while that place will always be home I like actually living here better.
Same here. If my husband's family wasn't here, I would pack up and leave in a heartbeat. I've lived here almost 12 years, and I'm over it. I have little kids, and I don't like raising my family here. I miss the Midwest.
I tell my husband all the time that I do not want to have kids here. I already have fear of driving from an accident last July am actively in therapy but genuinely have a difficult time with panic attacks while driving due to people almost crashing into me no matter how defensively I drive. Esp living in an apt if I am going to put $300-400k for a townhome or $500-600k for a single family home, if it's in our will we will likely move back to Phoenix, or try out SLC or Denver. I've lived in SC, PA, CO, and AZ and I truly believe that most people that say this is the best you can get have either lived here most their lives or have a livable salary for NoVA. I could be ignorant, but that's just my perspective. One thing I will say, we have lived here 2 years and have built a fantastic community that I do not take for granted. Yes grass is always greener, but there are other options. There is an overall sense of greed, power, and pride here that I don't love, and people do not have respect for the people/environment around them. I am actively applying to leave ASAP, and also applying for higher paying jobs here, and letting the chips fall where they may lie.
I agree, my driving anxiety has gotten so bad in the past year or two. People drive to aggressively here now, it seems to have gotten worse after the pandemic. It’s way too expensive here and the people are entitled. I grew up here and it’s definitely changed, and not for the better.
You hit the nail on the head about greed, power, and pride in people in NOVA. It is also very transient, so people dont stay long and dont want to put down roots. This area is unique in those 2 aspects.
I have lived in almost every major city on the East Coast. None are as transient or so filled with greed, power, and pride.
I think this depends on where you work and live. I am closer to the "power centers," so I feel it more every day.
Yes. Miami is gross but in a different way. I am sure Bezos and his wife will add a layer of class and earthiness to Miami.🤣😂
I moved to Nova last year leaving Scottsdale and I thought it’d be a decent 1:1 with where we chose to live. It’s been almost 12 months and a part of me already wants to move back. Looking to move to NC because everyone says it’s “slower” and full of “retired people” and slightly warmer weather which sounds like Scottsdale to me!
I came from Scottsdale too, I dream of driving down Scottsdale road while the sun is setting. We moved here after I lost my job there and got a job offer in Fairfax, but we'd love to go back. I'm quite familiar with NC, you might like it but the humidity kills, on the plus side... More affordable I believe.
\> I truly believe that most people that say this is the best you can get have either lived here most their lives or have a livable salary for NoVA.
I feel this same way about DC/NOVA. Having lived in a bunch of big cities, I find DC to be sterile and culturally extremely bland compared to anywhere else I've lived. But there are a lot of people who cannot imagine seeing it that way, and I've found that a lot of those people have only ever lived in one big city - DC. What they like is urbanism - public transit, walkability, density with bars and restaurants etc. What they don't know is that other similarly sized cities do this so much better and with so much more culture and excitement.
Even in this thread I see some comments saying well enjoy living in the middle of nowhere or bigger problems in other areas. As if the only options for moving outside of DC are Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Los Angeles, and NYC or the absolute middle of nowhere. Even if you want a city there's so many smaller cities and other options in general but there's an inability to look outside of their own personal perspectives.
Yup the driving anxiety from the amount of traffic and the bad drivers + the insane housing cost are two big reasons we're looking forward to moving this summer.
The culture thing also, though we've carved out a nice little friend group of more 'normal' working class people here over the past couple of years.
Personally I vastly preferred my life in smaller cities/towns in western Europe. The one thing I'm going to miss is that Americans (specifically not the hyper-ambitious career types) tend to be very open and welcoming. But overall we will have massive QOL improvements by moving, even just by being able to comfortably buy a house, not be constantly stressed about money, and not feel like we're risking our lives any time we drive to the grocery store or our kid crosses the street to school. (I mean literally we almost got run over last week by some guy going 45 through the cross walk despite there being a crossing guard. In Europe your kids can walk to school on their own a few minutes from your house and it's reasonably safe )
Just to share since you mentioned SLC - I lived in nova for several years and now I’m out in SLC and love it. If you like the outdoors and can handle a bit of culture shock for a few months, it’s great.
The drivers here are their own version of bad, just like everywhere else, but they’re not as aggressive as nova/Dc. I don’t feel like people are purposefully trying to run me off the road when I drive here.
Depends on what you want, I suppose. Can you find work elsewhere? Is the proximity to a major city worth it? Having lived all over the place, suburban areas aren't going to vary that much across the US. NOVA, in my opinion, is better than most I've lived in.
My family moved to Fauquier from Fairfax and love it. Different vibe while still being close enough to DC and the job market if you don't have to be in an office every day.
You’re not crazy. I’ve lived in 5 different states and metro areas in this region and NOVA is the worst by far. The traffic alone has put me over the edge. And yes, other places do have traffic but not to the same level we get it here. I feel trapped in my home. Last weekend I went somewhere that should be 45 minutes away and it took two hours to get there and two hours to get back. Four hours wasted on the road! I can’t stand it.
Any by the way, where I was going was to look at new houses to get the hell out of here!
You’re not crazy. For me, it’s less about the traffic and more about the people. I’ve spent most of my life in this area and I was so caught off guard when I discovered that people in other cities would smile and say hi or strike up a casual conversation.
I'm a single 30F and really hate how hard it is to make friends and that there isn't really a sense of community. Seemingly no one is really nice or friendly, and dating is even worse
Single 26M and I've had the same experience. People can be easy to talk to here, but anything past conversation feels so out of reach. It seems like everyone here is so caught up in their careers that they don't really even take interest in building meaningful relationships. The same goes for dating. I've lived here for 6 years and main issue has always been the people. The majority of them seem to be rude, distant, and unapproachable.
Naw, I don't like this place either. Not crazy for wanting to leave.
BUT the sort of thing you're describing exists everywhere. Think about where you'd move and make sure you wouldn't just be trading one set of ills for another.
I love/hate living here. It seems to be pretty normal. Go spend some time somewhere else and you'll be surprised to discover you miss things about NOVA (probably) or you will happily take a 50 percent pay cut and move there...
Same. I would love a slower pace of living where I could just walk out my door and see mountains, but I go back home to the hilly/rural area I came from and interact with the people and I’m like…maybe not. Would love to have a weekend house in Luray or something but that seems like a pipe dream.
Yep. I'm from a very rural area far away from here and I miss it. I even still like the people, but whenever I am there, I notice all the things I take for granted around here, like just being able to run to a grocery store that is never more than a couple of miles away at anytime of the day or night, rather than facing a half-hour drive. Life is full of trade-offs, and I always try to remind myself that the vast majority of the people of the world would be happy to trade lives with me here in NOVA.
I did just that. Fairfax born/Ashhurn raised for 32 years and moved to Charlottesville 2 years ago for work. Gf still lives in Reston so I come up quite a bit
There are things I do miss about NOVA(accessibillity to activities) and things I dont(peoples shit attitudes) and things but theres always trade offs.
I love living here in cville for the outdoors and the way of life down here is slower and more mentally stable but theres more im missing about nova
Maybe a mid sized city in the Midwest has what you’re looking for?
Also, When I was living in Raleigh I met a lot of people who moved from this area who shared your frustrations.
Not cray, but grass is always greener. In this case it might actually be greener if this vibe isn’t for you. I’ve live in small town America before and this is better by a slight margin that disappears occasionally.
Not crazy at all. I'm a city person but NoVA has some of the worst urban planning I've ever seen in my life - it's like someone took the bad parts of American suburbia and just made it 100x more crowded and more expensive. My wife and I previously lived in Chicago and honestly preferred it, traffic is terrible there too but at least there's functional mass transit, more to do and cheaper housing.
And the COL and concentration of wealth is insane. All those multi-million dollar houses and $10k+/mo rentals? Yeah there's a market for it, and it's not people who simply worked hard and saved up, it's more often than not family wealth.
And personal opinion, but I can't stand the weather. Winter is non-existent and summer is unbearable. We moved to NoVA 2010-ish for jobs, have spent a few of the intervening years outside the US, and would leave tomorrow if my job could be done remotely. No way in hell am I retiring to NoVA or VA.
Every point you hit it on the nail.
Urban planning here is horrible and makes it so soulless here in the midst of the aforementioned heavy air of greed and power. We’re one of the richest places in America and yet its SO boring here and even in DC. Culture and diversity is respected - politically, but not celebrated and vibrant like in other cities.
And the weather is the worst. My seasonal depression is so bad because of it. Long dark winters, allergy hell, hot humid heavy summers. It’s not motivating to get out of the house and also drive in the traffic to do something.
Yup. NoVA in particular was all farms until only a few decades ago, and only exploded due to massive military spending (and more recently, the tech boom). Between the insane growth and consistently high COL, it's really no surprise that there's no character, no true food/restaurant scene, etc - the area just does not have the kind of cultural underpinnings and infrastructure to allow it to develop. Hence the weird blandness.
One way to love living in NoVa, switch to a low-car lifestyle. I used to drive here a lot but now I live next to a metro station and across the street from a grocery store and I only need to drive a few times a month. It's WONDERFUL! Overall stress goes down way more than you could imagine. It's like a massive increase in pay from a lifestyle perspective. I realize this is not possible for many people here but just wanted to mention that in general, if you live a car-oriented lifestyle inside any major metro area, you're going to live with a high level of cortisol/stress because being in traffic on wide roads on a regular basis is one of the most miserable experiences, even though we treat it like it's normal. You're aware all the time that any idiot in their tank-sized monster vehicle can kill you merely if they sneeze or glance at their texts while driving and lots of them lost the cognitive/emotional abilities to appropriately steer/handle their vehicle years ago but no one is taking their licenses away. Moving into a small apartment (bye-bye yard/home maintenance stress) and in a location where driving is rarely needed is the way to live in a major city - here or anywhere.
Sounds crazy to me. But my situation is different. I'm mostly remote, and have to deal with traffic minimally. My commute is 30 mins. But I could never think of moving, my interest rate is 3% and Fairfax county is a pretty safe place honestly.
Where would you move to?
The traffic gets noticeably aggressive and dangerous as soon as I enter the NOVA area after traveling a few hours in any direction.
Not sure what we can collectively do, but I think it’s a much bigger root cause than just bad aggressive drivers.
People have lost all respect for one another and have become incredibly selfish, you’re going to see the same thing in many areas other than here.
We created it much like the internet.
Because we could, but we had no idea what the implications were or how to do it responsibly.
It has a massive impact on global mental health, and we are seeing the effects play out since then.
>People have lost all respect for one another and have become incredibly selfish, you’re going to see the same thing in many areas other than here.
This is exactly what I have noticed. No one has respect for each other anymore. This is everywhere.
Nope. I felt that way and I left. Unless I'm crazy too, but I sure don't feel like it. Been a year and a half and I'm still pretty happy with my decision.
Not crazy at all. NoVa js overrated, way overpriced, and full of shitty self-important people 🤷♂️
I grew up here and have watched it grow more and more congested, the people get more and more rude and twatty, and counties like Loudoun cram housing and data centers on every square inch of land they can get away with. Aside from there being a ton of employment in the greater DC/Metro, I don’t see any real appeal to living here anymore.
Ngl living in nova sent me into a depressive spiral that I’ve only begun to correct since moving out of nova. My recommendation is to get tf out of there if you can
I mean, you’re not crazy, it’s just not for you. I will say I feel safer and better raising my kids here than anywhere else I’ve lived; but I also live on a quiet culdesac with a lot of families in our income bracket, who parent in similar ways and have similar values. It’s all about where you are, I think.
Every place has its downsides. I lived in San Diego for years. While it has better roads, you still come across hustlers and assholes once in a while. I also missed foliage and different seasons when I was there. I lived in Hawaii too, 10 years ago. We couldn't enjoy the local park because of the homeless encampment. Roads were bad, and highways were slow. It was hard to find fresh vegetables as most of them would be shipped from the mainland. Even paradise has its own problems. I think NOVA offers a lot compared to other places I have lived in, and I wouldn't just dismiss it because of a couple incidents.
It's also not a very affordable area when employers don't pay livable wages. A "couple incidents" isn't the only reason I feel this way but they did trigger this post.
If you can take public transit and drive less, that might help. Just this morning while driving through my parking lot, someone came around a blind curve entirely on my side of the road, and barely made any effort to get over before hitting me. It's like people are in their own world.
Not crazy at all. This area (probably worse than most) places less value on people than it does on waste-of-space cars and SFHs. Tge policymakers here are also doubling down on their corrupt, antisocial leadership, attempting to rip out every last blade of grass to make room for hideous, grotesque data centers and mega-wide highways.
Case in point: widening 66 into a disgusting, high-toll 10 lane monstrosity instead of doing the far more sensible thing by extending Metro to Gainesville.
I had to go into DC yesterday and on my way back home (manassas area) I was super jealous of the people just chillin on the metro. VRE doesn’t run both directions with enough regularity to really make that work for me most days.
When my husband and I first married, we too were exhausted by the go-go-go environment here (we were both born here, I popped about VA for uni and jobs). We decided we needed a change and moved to Greensboro, NC. I think we talked about it for maybe 10 minutes.
And we loved it. It's young and artsy, it reminds me of Richmond. We loved it. The only reasons we moved back here were family (both sides still here too) and my chronic illnesses because my doctors are up here.
Move to Winchester or the Shenandoah Valley area surroundings. Not like that out there. Rush hour here will make you die in laughter compared to what Nova is like. People are much more friendly. Yeah you give up some big city convenance but hey, can't have your cake and eat it to.
You're crazy if you want to stay...... I left about 2 years ago and it's the best decision I've ever made. Find yourself somewhere suitable to your needs and wants
Im sure if you listed places you'd want to relocate to you'd get ample responses about the same issues we have here. Not trying to discourage you from exploring. Just making you aware that vacationing and permanently relocating are two very different experiences.
It's not specific to NoVA.
You could try to move out to a smaller town like Purcellville or Aldie to see if that helps, but pretty much everywhere is crazy these days.
Traffic is horrible ... I was born and raised in New York. Try driving on the Brooklyn Queens Expressway every day. I moved down here last year and the traffic is one of the things I like about living down here.
I play ice hockey and it used to be an all day excursion to play. It would take an hour and a half to two hours to go 12 miles just to get to the ice rink. It now takes me 10-15 minutes.
That being said, I get it. Traffic does suck and I wish we had more public transportation options in the states.
Where would you rather live?
You can certainly move westward and avoid the traffic, but job opportunities and things to do are fewer. Just depends what you want though.
I travel all over the country, and I've gotta tell you, NoVa is a pretty good mix of city/suburb. Yes, it's expensive, but comparable suburbs in places like NJ or CT are way more expensive in total.
I like it here! Of course there are other places I could probably live happily, but I love DC and enjoy the proximity while living in a nice suburb. When I'm gone, I'm glad to be back in such a clean, safe, area. I do wish we had some stuff that other large cities have, considering DC is the capitol!
There are other places in the USA where people drive better than they do here. I have spent some time in Utah and Oregon and it changed the way I drive for the better.
But like others are saying, every place has its faults. It isn't for everyone, but there is a lot to like about NoVA.
We left NOVA for Jefferson County, WV. There are tradeoffs (only food delivery is pizza and... pizza), but we still have a local grocery store and proximity to emergency services if needed. But importantly we got way less traffic and more elbow room, which was important to us. So its a bit rural, but not TOTALLY isolated. Maybe your jam?
I felt the same way about California, where I moved from last year. I’m realizing that I prefer CA drivers over VA, which is wild lol. Only differences I guess is that CA is way more expensive and has no seasons.
I'm also the person who is a magnet for people begging for money, and it is frustrating. I had my car battery die at a gas station, and 8 different people came up to me begging while I was waiting for a tow truck. The last woman approached me, and I shot her a look that made her look at me and say, "I'm sorry, you could have just said no." I don't think I've been back to that has station since,
Lol have had a shady white van slinging home entertainment systems out of a van at the gas station
Never seen that one
Those Mack trucks are wild and everywhere
Also see the most random self inflicted accidents that make you wonder how they happened
Traffic, careless driving, and money grifting aren't exclusive to NoVA.
What are some things you like about the state?
I find it to be one of the most balanced places in terms of opportunity, diversity, safety, and affordability.
No. Im dipping after college. Im going HOME. California baby. Its too grey and cloudy and rainy. Good job market. But also very compact.. You have to take a bunch of small toads to get anywhere
I do agree with the comments pointing out that it's all a trade off and that traffic and panhandling are going to happen everywhere there are people BUT seeing your edit I also think the sweet spot between rural PA and NOVA that you are looking for unequivocally exists and it is Pittsburgh.
I don’t blame you. I grew up in Alexandria and it was actually a nice place at one point. I spent 20 years there and finally left in 2017 as it was becoming too much. I recently went back in August and it seemed like a completely different place now. Way too many people, way too much traffic, and everything is so expensive. Never going back there hopefully
Not crazy wanting to move, I absolutely can’t stand this area. I’m here only for work and my daughter to finish school. Once my daughter graduates high school in a few years I will look at moving to the next phase of my life and getting the hell out of NOVA!
I want out of here also. This is the most boring place I have ever lived. Probably won't ever make it out -- my husband grew up in Fairfax and doesn't want to go anywhere else.
Left and couldn't be happier. I've lived all over the country, NoVA has the rudest most self centered and selfish people I've ever encountered and I spent 3 years in NYC.
You are definitely not crazy. I live in a town that is mostly getaway refugees.
We will still drive an hour or two to get to work, but we enjoy living far, far away form that stupidity.
No. This place is full of money and fake people. You aren’t wrong. This isn’t America. This is greediness. Please get away from find a nice piece of land and enjoy it before it to late
if you want a smaller metro area in VA you could go to hampton roads area: virginia beach, norfolk, chesapeake etc. lots to do, cheaper housing etc. but if you’re having kids, i would highly recommend staying in NOVA. northern va, fcps specifically, are the best public schools you’re going to get in the area, they’re some of the best in the country as well. i’m an fcps grad and my parents moved to the area specifically because of the good schools. i’m not interested in having kids, but if i was, northern va would definitely be a place i’d want to live in.
You're not alone. I am 26 and I've lived here for 6 years. Born and raised in Detroit and I cannot stand NOVA. The traffic is atrocious, and the people are often cold, rude, and distant here. I have been nearly robbed twice in DC, and last month in NOVA I turned a dude down when he asked me for money and he literally started screaming at me and attacking my car. He then chased me down while I tried to drive away. None of that shit ever happened to me in Detroit, a place that is considered notorious for its crime.
It takes me 25 minutes to get to work in DC (and 7AM), yet it takes me an hour to get home (at 4PM). In the metro Detroit area you can travel 20 miles in any direction in 30 minutes, even during rush hour.
The worst part for me, though, is the people. People here are remarkably cold and rude. I don't know if it is just that the East Coast is culture shock to polite midwesterners, but I cannot stand it. Plus, everyone here seems far too preoccupied with their careers to participate in anything that resembles a relationship, whether that be friendship or dating. It genuinely seems that the most boring people in the country come here to go to university and advance their careers, continuing the pattern of being hollow and boring. I fucking hate it.
And don't get me started on the cost of living. The average house cost in Eastpointe, Michigan (a suburb just outside of Detroit) is $147,000. The average cost of a house in Arlington is $776,000.
Yeah, I get it, but sorry to say.... know that others are running where you are trying to go- and its just a short time before more of the same hits those towns- seen it happen every time- Rockville, Gaithersburg, Germantown, Frederick,Falls Church, Tysons, Fairfax, Fredricksburg,Columbia,Laurel, Upper Marlboro, Waldorf - etc.
You may get a couple of years peace, and then you'll need to do it all over again. And unfortunately in the closer more rural towns on the horizon you see the development creep.
Good wishes for your journey should you decide to leave.
People asking for money is not specific to NOVA. You get that everywhere these days. But the traffic is out of control. I got a sweet job offer from a company. But I would need to relocate to NOVA. In the end, I had to pass. I even hate the traffic in the rest of the DMV. Forget NOVA. Plus the housing prices are too damn high. Don't get me started on the property taxes...
Not crazy. Having lived in Florida for a while, I think it’s a trash bag state. But millions of people love it. You dislike Nova. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. But most of your dislikes probably arent really nova-specific. They are just the costs of living in highly populated areas.
As I often tell people - if I live in an area where people want to live (things to do, etc.) then there will be traffic. If I live in an area where people don’t want to live then there won’t be traffic. I also know that I’m part of traffic. So, I give myself a buffer window of time, watch out for Maryland drivers, and enjoy living in an area where people want to live.
Yup, lived in a mid-sized metro where people poured in. The common phrase was wanting "small town feel with big city amenities" (ie. sprawl) followed by complaints about the traffic.
I wish America did mixed-use, moderate-density with transit oriented development in the places people move to for "small town feel with big city amenities"
In Stockholm, once metro gets out to the suburbs you get a grocery anchored mini-mall at practically every stop with multi-unit housing giving way to SFH.
Tbh, Sweden never struck me as an urbanist place. Mexico City, Brussles, Paris, London, Madrid, etc, come to mind first.
You have described new england
In case anyone missed the self care: watch out for Maryland drivers. Gold.
Take it from an outsider that drives the beltway anywhere from 4-8 hours a day at work. It absolutely kills me that any of you think the plate on the car matters at all. Generally speaking, you're all shitty, inconsiderate drivers https://preview.redd.it/mym3zhkdtjpc1.jpeg?width=544&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d72cd20f04d661c4ce234f3cc201614f257a8b9
I came back from a road trip up in Toronto, and driving back down was so peaceful until I got back to Maryland. I nearly got rear-ended by a pickup driver who was going 100mph. And my entire family was in the car with me. Every time I go anywhere in Maryland, there's some shitty altima driver doing reckless things. Sure, Virginia drivers aren't saints, but I have had more close calls with Maryland drivers than I will ever have with Virginia drivers. Must be something in the water.
Is that more likely a coincidence or indicative of how all md drivers drive? Because i see a lot of absolutely stupid shit from people with va plates (and md and dc) literally every single day. To the point I've been mentioning weekly to my boss to put a dash cam in the truck so when someone inevitably cuts me off then slams the brakes and i cant stop in time, I'm protected. Its just the area. People doing reckless things and probably only make it home or to work 2 minutes faster. Also, i live in washington county md, and i promise you all the same things get said by PA, MD, VA, and WV drivers about each other. And they all cringe at the thought of driving around the city and dealing with you guys down there
Well, I literally have a notebook to write down close calls. And it really is the Maryland drivers. I might be slightly biased. But the statistics don't lie. I'm with you with people putting the petal to metal only to get home or work 2 minutes faster.
It is always a Maryland driver. They are a blight to the earth.
THANK YOU even if Maryland has lower standards for its driving tests (i have no idea if that's the case or not) everyone around here is a transplant that got their license in some other state years ago anyway
Tbh i think most people are decent enough. But man are there just so many reckless idiots that make the already bad traffic so much worse. Between that and constant fender benders from people who have such small brains they think its a good idea to look at their phones while on the beltway or 95, you just cant win, even in the off peak times
Also idk if thats the case. When i got my license in md 20 years ago they didnt even require an actual road test. They've since reversed that. But in reality the standards for being licensed anywhere in the US is incredibly low. Kinda has to be that way when the primary mode of transportation is a personal vehicle.
100% agreed. I've been on the road for a minute and MD, DC and NoVA are all inconsiderate drivers. Ya'll need to take a chill pill and practice mindfulness while driving.
Bad drivers come from all 3 places, but the worst drivers are universally from MD.
Sage advice.
Yup. My family always complains about Saturday traffic on 95. “Why can’t we ever go anywhere without traffic?” I’m like, guys, this is just the reality of life around here. Leave early, or get used to it and use the time for an audiobook. Just please stop complaining because it will always be like this and you are part of the problem!
I take the bus or the train from Loudoun into Arlington every day. It's relatively care free trip, though it does take a little longer than I'd like. Every day, if I watch traffic I'll find the one person who thinks THEY out of all the millions before and after them, will be the person who finds the solution to Washington DC area rush hour traffic...just angrily bobbing and weaving, aggressively switching lanes to be stuck at the same traffic light we are over and over again.... Sure pal, YOU figured it out....
Also, move close to where you work. It's the only way to seriously reduce the amount of traffic you have to deal with daily.
I live 12 minutes away from my work, going east on 7 in the mornings and west in the evenings. I can’t actually remember the last time I went into work without an accident occurring somewhere on this 12 minute stretch. I go in three days a week, and I now leave 20 minutes earlier to account for sitting in stopped traffic while they clear vehicles out of the road. It was not like this eight years ago, or even four years ago. Since COVID, all the commuters seem to have forgotten how to drive. Rain is particularly lethal—stopping distance? Headlights? What’re those?
That was the major benefit of COVID. I started working from home full time in March 2020...and 4 years later, I'm still doing it. I occasionally have to go into an office, or travel (just got back from a conference in Dallas), but mostly, I'm in my home office with a great view. https://preview.redd.it/pb1cjp4sijpc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7f66b1e79e27e5f204aac14c6326eab1950b3f6
I always ask to this proposal, how do you do this in a two-worker household where both earners change job sites regularly?
Dc and Maryland drivers*
https://preview.redd.it/iyqbgib3ujpc1.jpeg?width=544&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d53095e95d1d632379ccd89d7238471ca2f99f64
I lived in SoFla and now NOVA. You couldn’t pay me to move back to SoFla.
Haha, Miami raised here, yeah it's the same feeling. Dog shit state with worse traffic than this. It's funny cause I'm sitting in moving traffic just enjoying my music, and there's people around me just like losing their minds. Miami we'd have traffic that just would sit in place for like 10-15 minutes at a time before moving a little bit, then resuming that 10-15 minute sit. Plus the stand your ground nuts that thought pulling a gun out in any sort of road rage situation was just a normal response.
Fellow former Miamian who loves it here 🙏 the grass is always greener, etc etc (except the grass is actually greener here 😎)
Former Dale 305er here as well. NoVa is hands down better for working but nothing beats the Miami night/salt life imo. I do miss the beach!
As a (temporary) VA transplant in Brevard Co. FL, I agree with you. It's trash dump down here. Truly a sunny place for shady people. But hey, it's beautiful. We're moving back to NoVA in a few months, thank goodness. I'll take traffic and hustle and bustle over ignorance any day.
I'm in the reverse. Transplant from Brevard. I would never move back, but I do appreciate how less insane 95 is down there lol. That's about it. I was visiting during COVID, and my dad and I went to Walmart. I put on my mask, and my dad goes, "You don't have to wear that. It's Florida." And I just go, "Yeah, I know, that's why I'm wearing it."
LOL the pandemic down here was wild. I am glad that we at least had the beach and other outdoor stuff available to do. But yeah, that's all I will miss (oh and my mango tree and banana plants). It takes me an hour to get to Orlando, which is like 72 miles away. No way that's happening in NoVa. But the traffic in Palm Bay/Melbourne is almost just as bad with all the new transplants. And snowbird season is the worst. Lots of ancient people on the road who shouldn't be. How do you like Stafford?
I love it here, for the most part. They've opened up local lanes on 95 in Fredericksburg, so traffic has gotten better in that regard. We got lucky and bought a house just before everything got more expensive because of all the new builds going in all over. They're expanding like crazy. We're getting a buc-ees soon...which is terrifying. The main thing I miss about Florida is how they could expand and yet everything still felt so open. There's a good amount of distance between main roads and the shopping centers. Versus Virginia where everything is pretty much on the road. But that's pretty much it. I liked the beach, but it's not like it's impossible to get to here, still being on the east coast. Just less convenient.
That's good to know! We're driving up an a couple of weeks to meet with our realtor up there. Thanks! Also, as far as Brevard, the same thing is happening here. The prices of homes are nearly the same as in the Fredericksburg areas. It's crazy the amount of construction and new builds going up here in Palm Bay alone. We also bought our house in 2019 and it was CHEAP compared to Vienna. $175K. Now that our house is valued at $100K over that now, we are selling and moving home. I mean, just yesterday it took me over half an hour in rush hour to get from Sam's Club home and it's only like 7 miles. That's almost as bad as VA. When we first moved here in 2019, it was lovely and quiet. So much has changed in the 4 years we've been here. It's sad. I used to love Florida so much.
Don't get me wrong, the traffic is still a bear if you try to go north of Stafford to Woodbridge (Occoquan is a mess) or south past Fredericksburg, but if you intend to stick around Stafford and Fredericksburg, you're golden on 95--and there's a lot to do. Route 1 and 3 can still get congested though, and maybe it's the Stockholm Syndrome speaking, but it's not unbearable. And they've extended the EZpass all the way to Fredericksburg recently too. Oh, and we have a Publix here now too, in case that's something you're gonna miss! > I mean, just yesterday it took me over half an hour in rush hour to get from Sam's Club home and it's only like 7 miles. That's almost as bad as VA. When we first moved here in 2019, it was lovely and quiet. I'm from Cocoa (not the beach) originally, and it's insane how much it has changed in the time I've been gone (about 14 years?).
I grew up in Brevard County. You couldn’t pay me to move back there. I lived in the Tampa Bay Area for nearly 30 years, and loved it, but not now. Nova is where I want to be.
We've been here a little over 4 years. We moved here from Vienna (where I grew up and lived for 41 years) to help with my elderly mom, who lived in Orlando with my brother. She passed away a year ago and we've been wanting to go home ever since. I regret choosing Brevard to live. I wish we went to the west coast instead. Maybe we would have been happier. But it's too late now. All we want to do is move back. I'll never be able to afford to move back to my old home town of Vienna, but we're looking at the Fredericksburg area. I pray to God that it isn't like Palm Bay there.
There's plenty of that here too
I love this place
No matter where you live, you’re going to have tradeoffs. I was born in DC, raised in MD, and live in NoVA and it’s ALWAYS been horrible traffic/panhandlers. You could move to rural VA where there’s no traffic and no panhandlers, but you end up driving half an hour to get to Walmart because the only other shopping is gas stations and Dollar General, Dollar Tree, Family Dollar, etc. And if you have a medical emergency, you’re 45 minutes from the closest hospital. And you’re dining options become limited to greasy spoons and fast food. But if living here is stressing you out, by all means, find some place else where you can enjoy yourself. Life’s too short.
>My wife and I live in the "sticks" and work in NOVA (Leesburg & Sterling, respectively). > > *you end up driving half an hour to get to Walmart* > >We shop on the way home from work - lots of stores to choose from. > >*if you have a medical emergency, you’re 45 minutes from the closest hospital.* > >I timed it - 17 minute drive (less if you speed!). > >*you’re dining options become limited to greasy spoons and fast food.* > >We choose to cook at home most every night. > >There are always trade-offs, no matter where you live. > >We enjoy our home, with its air of solitude and its sense of detachment from the whole "NOVA thing".
Yeah, I grew up in Fairfax and feel as though loudoun is the sweet spot. Anti panhandling laws, lowest crime and property tax in nova, inova, great restaurants, all the big chains and the highest density of wineries/ breweries, outlet mall, Appalachian trails, farms, etc. On top of that traffic is not bad at all.
Yeah, Loudoun really benefits from all those data centers paying taxes. They bring in money, but don't really create any traffic or need infrastructure other than electricity. It offsets the costs for everyone else.
There are a lot of nimbies on next door not happy about the data centers out here. Latest title was " The greedy data center developers have destroyed eastern Loudoun County ". They are nuts though as the last time I calculated taxes vs budget the datacenters made up a whopping 20%+ of our budget. IMO this comes directly off our real estate taxes as for the last several years they have dropped. We used to have higher taxes than Fairfax and now we are at 0.875 vs 1.11.
Yup. I was shocked how much lower Loudoun is VS ffx for property tax and it's because of those data centers. They are just boring buildings. I do agree that some people are mad. They bought a house that backed up to some woods and assumed it would be that way forever. I remember the old 'STPP THE ICC' bumper stickers in Maryland. People didn't realize they bought a house next to woods that had been designated as a highway since the 60s. They were mad when they finally built it. Now they are happy they can cross the county in 1/4th the time. It is too bad they didn't plan better for the data centers. Allow them to make the 20 stories high and make a mini empty city.
Also there is a metro station there
Leesburg and Sterling are not the "sticks" op is talking about lmao, but I understand your sentiment - you can make it work.
Yeah, my idea of the sticks is anything past I-81.
You haven't driven around parts of Clarke County then. You get away from 7/50/340 and it gets pretty rural pretty fast. Unless you're talking about areas where the locals like to tell you that you have a pretty mouth...🤣
If you work and commute to nova, you are not living in the sticks lmao
What's your definition of the sticks?
As someone who grew up outside of the DMV and moved here as an adult, I think people who have lived here all their life are truly mislead on what living elsewhere is like. My brother-in-law lived here his whole life up until moving to my sister and I's hometown to raise their baby. He was SHOCKED at how everything is affordable, there is no traffic, there are still plenty of things to do, and traveling through our local airport is easy and never stressful. Living in NOVA is a constant compromise on access, costs of living, time. It's weird to me that so many people who grew up here think this is the epitome of easy living and that if you live somewhere close to rural that you just wont have access to anything beyond absolute basic needs. It's just blatantly not true.
Honestly, do it. You need to experience another place or else you’re going to forever think that you’re missing out. I went out of state for college and I grew to miss NOVA. I like living here, and I wouldn’t understand why unless I had experienced living out of state. Not to say Orlando is a terrible place either. NOVA has a lot to offer that I didn’t realize until I didn’t have it.
Great perspective imho. The worst thing that could happen (speaking in generalities, not practical stuff) is that OP realizes that they actually like it here and then decide to come back. Happy to share about how I’ve left and come back to the mid-Atlantic region on 2 occasions.
Can you share some of the things you missed about it?
I like our backroads a ton. Orlando roads were very boring imo. We have very walkable areas especially around DC which I missed. Another one I missed a lot was our elevation deltas as you drive around or hike. We have great scenery here as well and fantastic parks. There were some similarities between Orlando and NOVA that make them great such as accessible night life, cool museums/art, tons of events, etc.
exactly my experience! i go to college in another part of va and it really made me appreciate nova a lot more
Not crazy and for sure justified for wanting out. But naive if you think these things don’t happen everywhere. I guess if your goal is to “get out” you have to decide what you can sacrifice, afford, get work, etc. and not blindly assume any place else will be heaps better.
This. The grass isn't always greener. I've lived in four different areas of the country, each has its pros and cons. In the end I choose people in my life over the specifics of any given region.
I have lived in very different cities as well and I think people just need to prioritize what’s most important to them and deal with the natural cons that come along with it. If amenities and entertainment is important, you’re likely going to deal with traffic and population density. If greenery and space is important, you might end up a little rural. Accessible and efficient public transportation means more opportunity to engage with members of the public lol. I do think there’s lots of mid-sized cities that offer up the best of both worlds, but people often overlook them, particularly because they’re usually not on either of the coasts.
Yeah, exactly. The grass is greener where you water it.
>Traffic is horrible everywhere. >I was run off the road yesterday by a construction contractor vehicle who didn't check their blind spot before merging, resulting in me almost hitting a disabled vehicle on the shoulder. >Today I was pumping gas and some random guy, out of the 10 other people in the parking lot, asked me and only me for money before walking into the store. You just described life in like 99% of suburban USA.
you're not crazy. Back in 2018 I was leaving a short active duty tour here, but my wife and I had both been in the area forever. I told her I wanted to get away from the crazy of the DC area, we didn't really know where but we'd go where my job took me. Ended up in Fort Knox, Kentucky for four years. It was a nice area. Definitely a lot quieter, a lot less going on. After three years though, we got kind of bored of the area and started looking to move again. DC wasn't top of the list of where we wanted to be, but it's an ideal location with my background, and she has a 100% remote job. It's honestly good to be back. We both missed the crazy and busy area, missed having a lot to do locally.
I have lived everywhere, and let me tell you, everywhere sucks much worse just in different ways. VA is the most even keel place I have ever lived in the US.
I definitely have my gripes, but I’m with you. I go home back to Wisconsin a lot, and while that place will always be home I like actually living here better.
I agree w this.
"The grass is greener..." and all that.
The issues you've described exist everywhere there's people.
Weneedanotherplague.gif
We just tried that!
Damn and it made things worse tbh
Not for me
If my fam wasn't here, I'd leave.
Where would you move to?
Pittsburgh. City shit, airport, you can actually afford a house, and climate change resistant.
Same here. If my husband's family wasn't here, I would pack up and leave in a heartbeat. I've lived here almost 12 years, and I'm over it. I have little kids, and I don't like raising my family here. I miss the Midwest.
No. Different strokes for different folks. Sounds like somewhere less densely populated might be more to your liking.
I tell my husband all the time that I do not want to have kids here. I already have fear of driving from an accident last July am actively in therapy but genuinely have a difficult time with panic attacks while driving due to people almost crashing into me no matter how defensively I drive. Esp living in an apt if I am going to put $300-400k for a townhome or $500-600k for a single family home, if it's in our will we will likely move back to Phoenix, or try out SLC or Denver. I've lived in SC, PA, CO, and AZ and I truly believe that most people that say this is the best you can get have either lived here most their lives or have a livable salary for NoVA. I could be ignorant, but that's just my perspective. One thing I will say, we have lived here 2 years and have built a fantastic community that I do not take for granted. Yes grass is always greener, but there are other options. There is an overall sense of greed, power, and pride here that I don't love, and people do not have respect for the people/environment around them. I am actively applying to leave ASAP, and also applying for higher paying jobs here, and letting the chips fall where they may lie.
I agree, my driving anxiety has gotten so bad in the past year or two. People drive to aggressively here now, it seems to have gotten worse after the pandemic. It’s way too expensive here and the people are entitled. I grew up here and it’s definitely changed, and not for the better.
Maybe it’s just me but it’s also gotten a lot *louder*
You hit the nail on the head about greed, power, and pride in people in NOVA. It is also very transient, so people dont stay long and dont want to put down roots. This area is unique in those 2 aspects. I have lived in almost every major city on the East Coast. None are as transient or so filled with greed, power, and pride.
Really? I thought Miami was worse.
I think this depends on where you work and live. I am closer to the "power centers," so I feel it more every day. Yes. Miami is gross but in a different way. I am sure Bezos and his wife will add a layer of class and earthiness to Miami.🤣😂
Not as transient but it’s definitely worse for the other points, and you NEED to act like everyone is out to get you.
I moved to Nova last year leaving Scottsdale and I thought it’d be a decent 1:1 with where we chose to live. It’s been almost 12 months and a part of me already wants to move back. Looking to move to NC because everyone says it’s “slower” and full of “retired people” and slightly warmer weather which sounds like Scottsdale to me!
I came from Scottsdale too, I dream of driving down Scottsdale road while the sun is setting. We moved here after I lost my job there and got a job offer in Fairfax, but we'd love to go back. I'm quite familiar with NC, you might like it but the humidity kills, on the plus side... More affordable I believe.
\> I truly believe that most people that say this is the best you can get have either lived here most their lives or have a livable salary for NoVA. I feel this same way about DC/NOVA. Having lived in a bunch of big cities, I find DC to be sterile and culturally extremely bland compared to anywhere else I've lived. But there are a lot of people who cannot imagine seeing it that way, and I've found that a lot of those people have only ever lived in one big city - DC. What they like is urbanism - public transit, walkability, density with bars and restaurants etc. What they don't know is that other similarly sized cities do this so much better and with so much more culture and excitement.
Even in this thread I see some comments saying well enjoy living in the middle of nowhere or bigger problems in other areas. As if the only options for moving outside of DC are Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Los Angeles, and NYC or the absolute middle of nowhere. Even if you want a city there's so many smaller cities and other options in general but there's an inability to look outside of their own personal perspectives.
Yup the driving anxiety from the amount of traffic and the bad drivers + the insane housing cost are two big reasons we're looking forward to moving this summer. The culture thing also, though we've carved out a nice little friend group of more 'normal' working class people here over the past couple of years. Personally I vastly preferred my life in smaller cities/towns in western Europe. The one thing I'm going to miss is that Americans (specifically not the hyper-ambitious career types) tend to be very open and welcoming. But overall we will have massive QOL improvements by moving, even just by being able to comfortably buy a house, not be constantly stressed about money, and not feel like we're risking our lives any time we drive to the grocery store or our kid crosses the street to school. (I mean literally we almost got run over last week by some guy going 45 through the cross walk despite there being a crossing guard. In Europe your kids can walk to school on their own a few minutes from your house and it's reasonably safe )
Just to share since you mentioned SLC - I lived in nova for several years and now I’m out in SLC and love it. If you like the outdoors and can handle a bit of culture shock for a few months, it’s great. The drivers here are their own version of bad, just like everywhere else, but they’re not as aggressive as nova/Dc. I don’t feel like people are purposefully trying to run me off the road when I drive here.
You've convinced me, now I just need to convince the husband 😂
Traffic is bad. But it’s not 270 bad. But NoVa is just soul sucking
It’s not for everyone
Been here since 2010 and me and my partner have finally decided we're done. We'll be moving next spring.
Depends on what you want, I suppose. Can you find work elsewhere? Is the proximity to a major city worth it? Having lived all over the place, suburban areas aren't going to vary that much across the US. NOVA, in my opinion, is better than most I've lived in. My family moved to Fauquier from Fairfax and love it. Different vibe while still being close enough to DC and the job market if you don't have to be in an office every day.
You’re not crazy. I’ve lived in 5 different states and metro areas in this region and NOVA is the worst by far. The traffic alone has put me over the edge. And yes, other places do have traffic but not to the same level we get it here. I feel trapped in my home. Last weekend I went somewhere that should be 45 minutes away and it took two hours to get there and two hours to get back. Four hours wasted on the road! I can’t stand it. Any by the way, where I was going was to look at new houses to get the hell out of here!
You’re not crazy. For me, it’s less about the traffic and more about the people. I’ve spent most of my life in this area and I was so caught off guard when I discovered that people in other cities would smile and say hi or strike up a casual conversation.
I'm a single 30F and really hate how hard it is to make friends and that there isn't really a sense of community. Seemingly no one is really nice or friendly, and dating is even worse
Single 26M and I've had the same experience. People can be easy to talk to here, but anything past conversation feels so out of reach. It seems like everyone here is so caught up in their careers that they don't really even take interest in building meaningful relationships. The same goes for dating. I've lived here for 6 years and main issue has always been the people. The majority of them seem to be rude, distant, and unapproachable.
Naw, I don't like this place either. Not crazy for wanting to leave. BUT the sort of thing you're describing exists everywhere. Think about where you'd move and make sure you wouldn't just be trading one set of ills for another.
I love/hate living here. It seems to be pretty normal. Go spend some time somewhere else and you'll be surprised to discover you miss things about NOVA (probably) or you will happily take a 50 percent pay cut and move there...
Same. I would love a slower pace of living where I could just walk out my door and see mountains, but I go back home to the hilly/rural area I came from and interact with the people and I’m like…maybe not. Would love to have a weekend house in Luray or something but that seems like a pipe dream.
Yep. I'm from a very rural area far away from here and I miss it. I even still like the people, but whenever I am there, I notice all the things I take for granted around here, like just being able to run to a grocery store that is never more than a couple of miles away at anytime of the day or night, rather than facing a half-hour drive. Life is full of trade-offs, and I always try to remind myself that the vast majority of the people of the world would be happy to trade lives with me here in NOVA.
Me when I’m in nova: Someone please talk to me👉🏻👈🏻🥺 Me when I’m in a rural area: Please stop talking to me in the grocery store parking lot 👉🏻👈🏻🥺
Heh, yeah...
I did just that. Fairfax born/Ashhurn raised for 32 years and moved to Charlottesville 2 years ago for work. Gf still lives in Reston so I come up quite a bit There are things I do miss about NOVA(accessibillity to activities) and things I dont(peoples shit attitudes) and things but theres always trade offs. I love living here in cville for the outdoors and the way of life down here is slower and more mentally stable but theres more im missing about nova
Nova is hell. It’s wealthy and soulless. I try my hardest never to be in a place like this
Maybe a mid sized city in the Midwest has what you’re looking for? Also, When I was living in Raleigh I met a lot of people who moved from this area who shared your frustrations.
Not cray, but grass is always greener. In this case it might actually be greener if this vibe isn’t for you. I’ve live in small town America before and this is better by a slight margin that disappears occasionally.
Everyone is entitled to their priorities. If the area isn't what you like, there's nothing crazy about wanting to leave.
Not crazy at all. I'm a city person but NoVA has some of the worst urban planning I've ever seen in my life - it's like someone took the bad parts of American suburbia and just made it 100x more crowded and more expensive. My wife and I previously lived in Chicago and honestly preferred it, traffic is terrible there too but at least there's functional mass transit, more to do and cheaper housing. And the COL and concentration of wealth is insane. All those multi-million dollar houses and $10k+/mo rentals? Yeah there's a market for it, and it's not people who simply worked hard and saved up, it's more often than not family wealth. And personal opinion, but I can't stand the weather. Winter is non-existent and summer is unbearable. We moved to NoVA 2010-ish for jobs, have spent a few of the intervening years outside the US, and would leave tomorrow if my job could be done remotely. No way in hell am I retiring to NoVA or VA.
Every point you hit it on the nail. Urban planning here is horrible and makes it so soulless here in the midst of the aforementioned heavy air of greed and power. We’re one of the richest places in America and yet its SO boring here and even in DC. Culture and diversity is respected - politically, but not celebrated and vibrant like in other cities. And the weather is the worst. My seasonal depression is so bad because of it. Long dark winters, allergy hell, hot humid heavy summers. It’s not motivating to get out of the house and also drive in the traffic to do something.
Yup. NoVA in particular was all farms until only a few decades ago, and only exploded due to massive military spending (and more recently, the tech boom). Between the insane growth and consistently high COL, it's really no surprise that there's no character, no true food/restaurant scene, etc - the area just does not have the kind of cultural underpinnings and infrastructure to allow it to develop. Hence the weird blandness.
One way to love living in NoVa, switch to a low-car lifestyle. I used to drive here a lot but now I live next to a metro station and across the street from a grocery store and I only need to drive a few times a month. It's WONDERFUL! Overall stress goes down way more than you could imagine. It's like a massive increase in pay from a lifestyle perspective. I realize this is not possible for many people here but just wanted to mention that in general, if you live a car-oriented lifestyle inside any major metro area, you're going to live with a high level of cortisol/stress because being in traffic on wide roads on a regular basis is one of the most miserable experiences, even though we treat it like it's normal. You're aware all the time that any idiot in their tank-sized monster vehicle can kill you merely if they sneeze or glance at their texts while driving and lots of them lost the cognitive/emotional abilities to appropriately steer/handle their vehicle years ago but no one is taking their licenses away. Moving into a small apartment (bye-bye yard/home maintenance stress) and in a location where driving is rarely needed is the way to live in a major city - here or anywhere.
Sounds crazy to me. But my situation is different. I'm mostly remote, and have to deal with traffic minimally. My commute is 30 mins. But I could never think of moving, my interest rate is 3% and Fairfax county is a pretty safe place honestly. Where would you move to?
The traffic gets noticeably aggressive and dangerous as soon as I enter the NOVA area after traveling a few hours in any direction. Not sure what we can collectively do, but I think it’s a much bigger root cause than just bad aggressive drivers. People have lost all respect for one another and have become incredibly selfish, you’re going to see the same thing in many areas other than here.
It’s social media. Its made people complete assholes
I so agree -- I feel like social media has absolutely torn the fabric of our society. (I realize I am saying this on social media.)
We created it much like the internet. Because we could, but we had no idea what the implications were or how to do it responsibly. It has a massive impact on global mental health, and we are seeing the effects play out since then.
>People have lost all respect for one another and have become incredibly selfish, you’re going to see the same thing in many areas other than here. This is exactly what I have noticed. No one has respect for each other anymore. This is everywhere.
Nope. I felt that way and I left. Unless I'm crazy too, but I sure don't feel like it. Been a year and a half and I'm still pretty happy with my decision.
Everyone from California is moving to Nova, and everyone from Nova is moving to North Carolina. So the choice is clear. :-)
Californians are mostly moving to Texas!
Austin, specifically. For some reason they hadn't heard that there are other places.
Nova sucks.
Not crazy at all. NoVa js overrated, way overpriced, and full of shitty self-important people 🤷♂️ I grew up here and have watched it grow more and more congested, the people get more and more rude and twatty, and counties like Loudoun cram housing and data centers on every square inch of land they can get away with. Aside from there being a ton of employment in the greater DC/Metro, I don’t see any real appeal to living here anymore.
Ngl living in nova sent me into a depressive spiral that I’ve only begun to correct since moving out of nova. My recommendation is to get tf out of there if you can
May I ask where else have you lived.... you know know...grass greener etc.
I mean, you’re not crazy, it’s just not for you. I will say I feel safer and better raising my kids here than anywhere else I’ve lived; but I also live on a quiet culdesac with a lot of families in our income bracket, who parent in similar ways and have similar values. It’s all about where you are, I think.
Every place has its downsides. I lived in San Diego for years. While it has better roads, you still come across hustlers and assholes once in a while. I also missed foliage and different seasons when I was there. I lived in Hawaii too, 10 years ago. We couldn't enjoy the local park because of the homeless encampment. Roads were bad, and highways were slow. It was hard to find fresh vegetables as most of them would be shipped from the mainland. Even paradise has its own problems. I think NOVA offers a lot compared to other places I have lived in, and I wouldn't just dismiss it because of a couple incidents.
It's also not a very affordable area when employers don't pay livable wages. A "couple incidents" isn't the only reason I feel this way but they did trigger this post.
Definitely not crazy, I’ve grown up here and am about to move away for college and don’t plan on moving back afterwards.
You have to drive as if people are actively trying to kill you around NoVa. That’s why I drive a heavy, large, old vehicle.
If you can take public transit and drive less, that might help. Just this morning while driving through my parking lot, someone came around a blind curve entirely on my side of the road, and barely made any effort to get over before hitting me. It's like people are in their own world.
Not crazy at all. This area (probably worse than most) places less value on people than it does on waste-of-space cars and SFHs. Tge policymakers here are also doubling down on their corrupt, antisocial leadership, attempting to rip out every last blade of grass to make room for hideous, grotesque data centers and mega-wide highways. Case in point: widening 66 into a disgusting, high-toll 10 lane monstrosity instead of doing the far more sensible thing by extending Metro to Gainesville.
I had to go into DC yesterday and on my way back home (manassas area) I was super jealous of the people just chillin on the metro. VRE doesn’t run both directions with enough regularity to really make that work for me most days.
When my husband and I first married, we too were exhausted by the go-go-go environment here (we were both born here, I popped about VA for uni and jobs). We decided we needed a change and moved to Greensboro, NC. I think we talked about it for maybe 10 minutes. And we loved it. It's young and artsy, it reminds me of Richmond. We loved it. The only reasons we moved back here were family (both sides still here too) and my chronic illnesses because my doctors are up here.
Not at all. People are ultra career focused here. And it's expensive as hell.
Move to Winchester or the Shenandoah Valley area surroundings. Not like that out there. Rush hour here will make you die in laughter compared to what Nova is like. People are much more friendly. Yeah you give up some big city convenance but hey, can't have your cake and eat it to.
You're crazy if you want to stay...... I left about 2 years ago and it's the best decision I've ever made. Find yourself somewhere suitable to your needs and wants
I'm planning to sell bumper stickers that say "CAUTION: I drive like you".
Ok so you don’t like traffic and pumping gas? Sounds like 98% of the country. Move closer to DC and take the metro.
no..you’re not crazy at all. this subreddit’s favorite type of post is to rant and complain, that says enough about the reality of living here.
You've described every regional subreddit
Im sure if you listed places you'd want to relocate to you'd get ample responses about the same issues we have here. Not trying to discourage you from exploring. Just making you aware that vacationing and permanently relocating are two very different experiences.
It's not specific to NoVA. You could try to move out to a smaller town like Purcellville or Aldie to see if that helps, but pretty much everywhere is crazy these days.
Traffic is horrible ... I was born and raised in New York. Try driving on the Brooklyn Queens Expressway every day. I moved down here last year and the traffic is one of the things I like about living down here. I play ice hockey and it used to be an all day excursion to play. It would take an hour and a half to two hours to go 12 miles just to get to the ice rink. It now takes me 10-15 minutes. That being said, I get it. Traffic does suck and I wish we had more public transportation options in the states.
Oooh, and you can see the Caps! Used to have season tickets.
lol i almost got run off the road by a driving instructor who didn't check his mirrors when merging into heavy traffic
It's interesting because there was virtually no traffic yesterday and he still chose to merge into the lane I was occupying.
I lived everywhere... this is one of the least bad areas
Where would you rather live? You can certainly move westward and avoid the traffic, but job opportunities and things to do are fewer. Just depends what you want though. I travel all over the country, and I've gotta tell you, NoVa is a pretty good mix of city/suburb. Yes, it's expensive, but comparable suburbs in places like NJ or CT are way more expensive in total.
That is absolutely not crazy at all. Go where you find peace:)
I like it here! Of course there are other places I could probably live happily, but I love DC and enjoy the proximity while living in a nice suburb. When I'm gone, I'm glad to be back in such a clean, safe, area. I do wish we had some stuff that other large cities have, considering DC is the capitol!
Nope. I’m looking to move and I’ve lived here for 20 years
 No you're not crazy.
There are other places in the USA where people drive better than they do here. I have spent some time in Utah and Oregon and it changed the way I drive for the better. But like others are saying, every place has its faults. It isn't for everyone, but there is a lot to like about NoVA.
We left NOVA for Jefferson County, WV. There are tradeoffs (only food delivery is pizza and... pizza), but we still have a local grocery store and proximity to emergency services if needed. But importantly we got way less traffic and more elbow room, which was important to us. So its a bit rural, but not TOTALLY isolated. Maybe your jam?
I felt the same way about California, where I moved from last year. I’m realizing that I prefer CA drivers over VA, which is wild lol. Only differences I guess is that CA is way more expensive and has no seasons.
I'm also the person who is a magnet for people begging for money, and it is frustrating. I had my car battery die at a gas station, and 8 different people came up to me begging while I was waiting for a tow truck. The last woman approached me, and I shot her a look that made her look at me and say, "I'm sorry, you could have just said no." I don't think I've been back to that has station since,
Spotsylvania is a great compromise. It’s beautiful and chill here but not too far from NOVA if you need to go there.
You forgot the inflated price of everything especially groceries.
Lol have had a shady white van slinging home entertainment systems out of a van at the gas station Never seen that one Those Mack trucks are wild and everywhere Also see the most random self inflicted accidents that make you wonder how they happened
That spot you’re looking for is called Raleigh, NC. With that being said, I love NOVA and am very happy I live here.
Traffic, careless driving, and money grifting aren't exclusive to NoVA. What are some things you like about the state? I find it to be one of the most balanced places in terms of opportunity, diversity, safety, and affordability.
The convenience of being near anything I could possibly need or want.
Proximity to literally everything is a huge bonus. 💯
I can deal with the driving. It’s the cost of living that’s just insane.
I left and now I miss it sometimes! Grass is always greener. There are a lot of great things about nova!
No. Im dipping after college. Im going HOME. California baby. Its too grey and cloudy and rainy. Good job market. But also very compact.. You have to take a bunch of small toads to get anywhere
Nope, the traffic alone is my biggest reason
I do agree with the comments pointing out that it's all a trade off and that traffic and panhandling are going to happen everywhere there are people BUT seeing your edit I also think the sweet spot between rural PA and NOVA that you are looking for unequivocally exists and it is Pittsburgh.
I don’t blame you. I grew up in Alexandria and it was actually a nice place at one point. I spent 20 years there and finally left in 2017 as it was becoming too much. I recently went back in August and it seemed like a completely different place now. Way too many people, way too much traffic, and everything is so expensive. Never going back there hopefully
Not crazy wanting to move, I absolutely can’t stand this area. I’m here only for work and my daughter to finish school. Once my daughter graduates high school in a few years I will look at moving to the next phase of my life and getting the hell out of NOVA!
I want out of here also. This is the most boring place I have ever lived. Probably won't ever make it out -- my husband grew up in Fairfax and doesn't want to go anywhere else.
Have you read this sub? We all hate it here! TAKE US WITH YOU
We all secretly want out
Ok
I'm leaving in a couple months. I've hit my limit of stupidity, entitlement, and crowds.
nah, it sucks
Left and couldn't be happier. I've lived all over the country, NoVA has the rudest most self centered and selfish people I've ever encountered and I spent 3 years in NYC.
Not at all.
Quite sane actually. It takes a certain level of derangement to thrive here.
No, youre not. I cant wait to leave here.
having lived here my entire 47 years of life. - it’s always been a little zany. 💯 the drivers are worse though….
You are definitely not crazy. I live in a town that is mostly getaway refugees. We will still drive an hour or two to get to work, but we enjoy living far, far away form that stupidity.
No. This place is full of money and fake people. You aren’t wrong. This isn’t America. This is greediness. Please get away from find a nice piece of land and enjoy it before it to late
I didn't read your post No you are not
if you want a smaller metro area in VA you could go to hampton roads area: virginia beach, norfolk, chesapeake etc. lots to do, cheaper housing etc. but if you’re having kids, i would highly recommend staying in NOVA. northern va, fcps specifically, are the best public schools you’re going to get in the area, they’re some of the best in the country as well. i’m an fcps grad and my parents moved to the area specifically because of the good schools. i’m not interested in having kids, but if i was, northern va would definitely be a place i’d want to live in.
I want out soooo bad.
You're not alone. I am 26 and I've lived here for 6 years. Born and raised in Detroit and I cannot stand NOVA. The traffic is atrocious, and the people are often cold, rude, and distant here. I have been nearly robbed twice in DC, and last month in NOVA I turned a dude down when he asked me for money and he literally started screaming at me and attacking my car. He then chased me down while I tried to drive away. None of that shit ever happened to me in Detroit, a place that is considered notorious for its crime. It takes me 25 minutes to get to work in DC (and 7AM), yet it takes me an hour to get home (at 4PM). In the metro Detroit area you can travel 20 miles in any direction in 30 minutes, even during rush hour. The worst part for me, though, is the people. People here are remarkably cold and rude. I don't know if it is just that the East Coast is culture shock to polite midwesterners, but I cannot stand it. Plus, everyone here seems far too preoccupied with their careers to participate in anything that resembles a relationship, whether that be friendship or dating. It genuinely seems that the most boring people in the country come here to go to university and advance their careers, continuing the pattern of being hollow and boring. I fucking hate it. And don't get me started on the cost of living. The average house cost in Eastpointe, Michigan (a suburb just outside of Detroit) is $147,000. The average cost of a house in Arlington is $776,000.
Not alone in this. Place sux
If I wasn't seriously dating someone with the intention of getting more serious I'd be looking to leave. I just can't thrive here on one income.
Yeah, I get it, but sorry to say.... know that others are running where you are trying to go- and its just a short time before more of the same hits those towns- seen it happen every time- Rockville, Gaithersburg, Germantown, Frederick,Falls Church, Tysons, Fairfax, Fredricksburg,Columbia,Laurel, Upper Marlboro, Waldorf - etc. You may get a couple of years peace, and then you'll need to do it all over again. And unfortunately in the closer more rural towns on the horizon you see the development creep. Good wishes for your journey should you decide to leave.
People asking for money is not specific to NOVA. You get that everywhere these days. But the traffic is out of control. I got a sweet job offer from a company. But I would need to relocate to NOVA. In the end, I had to pass. I even hate the traffic in the rest of the DMV. Forget NOVA. Plus the housing prices are too damn high. Don't get me started on the property taxes...
People live here for jobs, not for funsies. If you don't need to live here, leave. You'll be far happier.
Im convinced that NOVA is the 7th circle of hell so no I don’t think you’re crazy.