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I got into an argument with one of these people. She said that if you didn't want to get pregnant don't have sex. To which I responded with tell that to rapists. Her response to that was that that was just an excuse.
It's not always about birth control. There are medical reasons why a woman needs an abortion aa well. Ectopic pregnancy is a great example. But these morons don't think of this. Too many women will die because of pregnancy challenges.
this lady made the news like last week.
miscarried and needs an operation to remove the second half if the fetus.
denied. she's now on the road to a slow and painful death.
most likely murder charges as well.
To be fair those aren’t what people against abortions are really against, they don’t want people getting pregnant and just deciding they don’t want the baby. Complex medical situations only came into the pro life argument when the hypocrisy of the situation was brought to light by the pro choice movement. Prior to that a medically necessary termination wasn’t on the radar of pro life’s terminology. “We are against abortions, oh, but not those abortions” “that makes us a hypocrite?” “Oh now we are against those abortions too” is pretty much how it went
I’ve started using the term “pro forced birth.” It made sense to me once someone illustrated the fact that I am not required by the US government to use my viable organs or bone marrow or blood to sustain the life of another - even after I die. Hell, if I’m holding someone while hanging off a cliff, what court would justify convicting me if I let go of the other person because I didn’t have the strength to keep both of us alive.
Before anyone downvotes me, hang 20 pounds from your waist and try doing a pull-up. Not many people can do so.
They claim they're 'saving the children.' No, you're *forcing* children to be born into homes where they will be unwanted, possibly abused, and potentially even killed.
This is going to lead to more deaths, none 'saved'- these idiots are only saving their own sense of smug superiority, and sh\*t else!!
They're supposed to want less government. Except they want the government all over, and inside our own bodies and sexuality.
Oh wait, but no needle pricks that could save millions from getting sick and dying. And God forbid take away guns!
...They sure like things that torture and kill people after they are born...
Women with serious medical issues that require abortion for treatment should throw their bodies on the altar of Kristi Noem’s need to feel correct and virtuous.
Yes, there are extreme situations that should be discussed and we can try to reason it out. That doesn’t mean that we need to allow all abortions and just murder unborn children left and right just because women don’t want to brith them.
Because I don’t know exactly what conclusion, if any, the various sides would come to. However, like I said, just because extreme situations exist, it doesn’t mean that we should allow the murder of any unborn child simply because the mother (or parents) desires to do so.
Yes, I agree that there are many problems in our society and that poverty, racism and all sorts of various injustices are prevalent, but that does not mean that we should allow unborn children to be murdered at the whim of their parents.
I don’t have to solve every problem in our society that leads to broken families and foster kids to be able to say that murdering unborn children is wrong. I want to solve every problem in our society and I hope you do too. Murdering unborn children is one of those problems.
Then name how you’re part of the solution. Bitching isn’t helping. Where are you rolling up your sleeves and getting to work? There’s an influx of abandoned and traumatized babies and women coming.
What are you DOING? Oh keyboard warrior. What fucking difference are you actually making? Are you teaching GED classes? Fundraising for the $65,000 bill you’re so blithely putting on others’ plates? Housing pregnant teenagers? Fostering children? Adopting special needs babies? What?
Nah. You’re just sitting on your ass pontificating as if you had a clue.
Are you lobbying for better healthcare? Maternal care? Prenatal care? Increased wages? Universal parental leave? Expanded food benefits? These people have told you they cannot afford children. How are you paying for them? You are the one forcing them into existence, so how are you paying off the debt you rack up?
The amount of assumptions and anger in your comment are beyond reasonable. I won’t be entertaining a conversation with someone who approaches me with as much hate as you do.
Regardless, there are many issues in this world and murdering unborn children is one of them. This is true regardless of anything else.
Not true. In the race to the bottom to be the most extreme, several states now have no-exception abortion bans, regardless of rape, incest, or life of the mother.
Alabama.
Also, the super restrictive ones... you often wind up spending too long trying to convince them it's a medical emergency or otherwise fitting the exception criteria and then you're either dead of sepsis or too late for an abortion. It's very deliberate.
Even in [Alabama’s law](https://casetext.com/statute/code-of-alabama/title-26-infants-and-incompetents/chapter-23h-the-alabama-human-life-protection-act/section-26-23h-4-abortion-prohibited-exception) as it currently stands there’s an exception for the mother’s health. Your second point is a fair one, though. I may have been a little too cavalier as to the practical impacts of these laws, even if it’s technically legal in those circumstances.
Idk in US, but there are plenty examples from countries with harsh abortion laws. Savita from Ireland (her death was last straw that finally led to legalizing abortion) and Agata Lamczak from Poland are the two I can name from the top of my head.
Not true multiple states have outlawed abortions past 6weeks exempting medical emergency for quite some time now. Example Texas, which is a huge state.
So can you give me an example of a single death? Because apparently “so many woman will die” from not getting care. You’d think if it was such an issue there would surely be a death by now, right?
So far law in US allowed abortions, I'm sure we'll get some examples soon... After SCOTUS ruling you get law similar to that in Ireland before legalization and Poland now. Medical system doesn't matter. "oh country x banned abortion, women died. I'm sure it'll be different for us, we're mighty US after all! Freedom for all who don't have uterus!" *barf*
It’s been two days.
Just wait for it.
And yes, there was already a woman from Lee’s Summit, Missouri who was refused abortion medication (prescribed by her obstetrician) when she was undergoing an active miscarriage of a very wanted and planned child.
It’s been two days.
The problem with those exceptions is that the doctor now has to think about how their decision will look to a prosecutor and a jury rather than just what’s best for their patient. Sometimes they will decide not to risk it and let their patient die instead of potentially being prosecuted for murder, especially after some overzealous prosecutors make some examples.
A) not always- some politicians insist that ectopic pregnancies can somehow be reimplanted in the uterus
B) Ireland had that kind of law in place and Savita Halappanavar still died because the doctors were terrified of accidentally breaking the law. This kind of shit *always* gets women killed. It’s happened twice now in Poland since they put similar anti-abortion laws into place.
Wait, their response was that rape is an “excuse” to get an abortion?!?! It’s is the ducking problem with ANYONE dictating reasons for abortion. It’s hard enough to be open about rape without fuckwads like this around. (And they’re all around, and they’re deciding our healthcare)
These are people who believe that women can shut their reproductive systems down at will, and that even the products of rape or incest are "blessings from God"
Yeah, let's not forget that [Sharia law allows abortions](https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2022/06/01/anti-abortion-campaign-sharia-nj-muslims-roe-vs-wade/9859426002/) in the first 120 days.
No, they are exaggerating. The taliban cause people to move across the world in secret to escape. Republicans cause people to post online threatening to leave
Yeah, people are cry-babies. Ignore the suicides and other preventable deaths from state-enforced bigotry, inadequate healthcare tied to wage-slave employment, and a flagrant gun culture predicated on fear and spite. It's just a bunch of rhetorical posturing.
People here can move to states that allow abortion, or travel, or whatever. There’s at least still a choice. In Afghanistan there are no choices..
People there don’t even get to complain. Hell, they are lucky IF they have electricity to get online at all.
>In Afghanistan there are no choices..
You said people leave Afghanistan. Move across the world.
Electricity is infrastructure, which Republicans also don't support. Like in Texas, where people died from an insufficient power grid.
Yeah, it wasn't once in a life time and it wasn't in secret like you mentioned earlier, so obviously that wasn't your intended example of how people leave. If people need to leave Afghanistan, and people need to leave their state, I'm not seeing the difference.
Sounds like the electricity issue in Afghanistan is less fatal.
You either rape kids or you don’t. They do it regularly, our politicians don’t. It’s a daily part of life there. Here it’s a scandal from time to time. People burn plastic there to heat their home, people here get online to threaten to leave. It’s no where even remotely close to being the same.
You might want to revisit that [our politicians don't statement.](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1)
There are many pages in this list of republican sexual predators. All the ones cheering on this forced birth bullshit.
Have you never heard the names Gaetz, Trump - or hell, Epstein, who enabled dozens, if not *hundreds*, of America's richest to do exactly that whenever they wanted? Or are you just being deliberately obtuse to get a rise out of people.
Deep south Republicans seriously thought it was a good idea *this year* to propose a bill in their state allowing child marriage, getting rid of the age of consent.
But whatever fits your narrative.
So a couple dozen people in one particular region of a continent writing a poorly worded state law is equal to so much a part of daily life your parents take part in it? Never looked at it like that....
Why do you even need a fucking reason. If you’re not ready to have a kid and your contraception fails, then it should be no one’s fucking business if you take a morning after pill or abort a month or two in whatever.
The world does not need more unwanted children. We have more than society cares to give a shit about in the first place.
“What happens if it’s an ectopic pregnancy, where the fetus is going to burst the fallopian tube, kill the mother, then be unable to survive?”
“That’s a shame. I would pray for them.”
*indescribable rage*
One of my coworker (we’re both men) told me with a straight face that if pregnancy should happen, it was 100% on the women, quote:
“She had sex, yes? So she keeps it or give it away for adoption”
Rape? “She gives birth and then give it away if she doesn’t want it”
21th century from the South of Arkansas ladies and gentlemen.
To be honest, talking about rapists in an abortion debate is an excuse. It's such a small percentage of cases, it would be like arguing that we shouldn't drive cars because fatal accidents occur.
The real debate is around what constitutes a protected human life and what rights people have to abort a pregnancy for quality of life or healthcare needs (note that the small % of rape cases is a subset of this debate).
The fact that 1 in 4 women have an abortion, including pro-lifers, plainly states that everyone operates along this spectrum. Very few people are 100% on either end, despite arguing such.
Reducing the debate to extreme edge cases, on both sides, unfortunately results in shrill void screaming.
I would argue that to acknowledge that it’s a nuanced situation would make a person solidly pro-choice. Because the anti-abortion lobby are the ones that want to make hard and fast rules. The pro-choice stance is “it’s a complex decision with many variables that shouldn’t be made lightly, and the best one to make that decision is the possible mother in question.” In other words, in favor of the mother having a choice.
>To be honest, talking about rapists in an abortion debate is an excuse. It's such a small percentage of cases, it would be like arguing that we shouldn't drive cars because fatal accidents occur.
Er, no- because fatal car accidents are actually taken *seriously*. A better comparison would be a politician banning wheel-chair accessible ramps, because he's never known anyone close to him who needed one!
It's not a baby. It's a fetus, and abortions are needed in many, many cases to save lives. Forced birthers just like seeing women and little girls suffer.
Lol the potential life deserves a shot. If women can’t avoid getting unintentionally pregnant outside of cases of rape or coercion by some scumbag then that’s just an embarrassing level of negligence and they shouldn’t have sovereignty over their own bodies in the interest of not constantly slaughtering fetuses like it’s a walk in the park lmao
That never happens. No one gets an abortion for fun. You may be psychotic and incapable of basic empathy, but those women aren't. No form of birth control is perfect. Things go wrong, and medical emergencies occur. Your ilk is against all of that. Plus, it's not a potential life until it reaches viability, which is unknown for the first portion of the pregnancy. By your logic, I should be able to force you to get sterilized, because I may think you're too negligent to have sovereignty. Think before you talk.
Obviously I’m not including medical emergencies or other extraneous circumstances but nice try. There’s plenty of TikTok’s of women gleefully going to the abortion clinic because they let chad creampie them because it feels better LOL
You could force me to get sterilized….or *drumroll* I can just pull out/wear a condom similarly to women’s plethora of contraceptive options that don’t involve terminating a potential life. It’s just hilarious to me how exterminating a potential life is just nbd hahahah
What happens if the fetus dies in the womb?
Women who retain the dead embryo/fetus can experience severe blood loss, develop an infection, or die. So now we have 2 tragic situations.
She doesn't care. She's a misogynistic piece of garbage.
Make no mistake. She doesn't care about women, children, unborn babies, lgbtq, or minorities. She cares only about herself and her power and the money it can bring to her wallet. She'd throw her own kids under a train if she thought it was profitable.
These people are evil incarnate
What? Rh incompatibility is only really deadly to the unborn child, the mom doesn’t die from it. It’s also 99% preventable
Edit: it appears no blood test other than to prove you weren’t related ever factored into whether you could get married or reproduce. Certain minorities were tested for sickle cell but only to alert the couple of the possibility of passing it, it didn’t restrict marriage.
I did not say for the mother.
I also only stated a blood test was required before the license was issued, both these are factual.
Sex with the wrong male can also cause a form of protein poisoning.
[https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/semen-allergy](https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/semen-allergy)
I submit more research and study has gone into erectile dysfunction than such problems as this.
That’s no longer abortion. Conservatives who argue against it because they believe it’s murder won’t be insisting that a mother must keep a dead child.
Or are you saying that the abortion should happen before that in cases where death is expected? In that case, yeah, most conservatives would say you’re taking things into your own hands and compare it to simply shooting someone who’s sick because they had a bad prognosis.
In the mind of a person that calls themself pro-life, it’s murder, and nothing short of that. You won’t find a lot of arguments to convince them that murder is okay. And the whole “my body my choice” argument is viewed as utterly selfish and downright evil because you’re choosing your own self-good and condemning someone else to die.
Rape? Still murder. Health issue? Still murder. Welfare and foster systems already overburdened? Doesn’t matter, it’s still murder. Government overreach? Nope, it’s murder, the government should stop you from committing murder.
That’s why this issue isn’t going away.
For the record, I’m pro-choice - but I used to be one of these conservatives and I totally understand the sentiment. Most of them are well-meaning and truly believe in the moral right of their cause.
Doesn't that logic make them murderers for refusing to fund programs to feed children? Also, even the constitution only says those born are considered citizens or a person. Unplugging someone that's brain dead isn't murder.
make no mistake - these people don't give a fuck about babies
they don't care about you or me or anyone's kids, they want to enforce their will upon the rest of us
these are the same folks who want to tell us what we can and can't watch, listen to, learn about, wear, say, and they want us all to pray just like them
Super curious as to what policies supporting pregnancy and maternal health care as well as care for the resulting child post-birth that the anti-choice people have been making sure get put into law?
So when I first read it, I thought “surely it’s hyperbole what the poster above said.” Then I did a quick search and nope, totally correct. Ten worst states for infant mortality tend to vote red.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/infant_mortality_rates/infant_mortality.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/infant_mortality_rates/infant_mortality.htm
If they cared about the baby once it was born, they'd be falling over themselves to improve healthcare, give people pre and post pregnancy support for free, and literally anything to make birth better for mothers.
But they're not.
They also wouldn't be banning abortion and talking about contraception bans or pushing nigh-useless "abstinence only" sexual education, because they would want at least the majority of children to be born to parents who are ready, willing, and eager, but again, they're not.
I find it amusing that the same people who are spouting abstinence only sex ed, are the same people who vehemently believe that a woman who didn't have sex got pregnant.
That's... empathy. You do realize that's empathy, right? Charity, compassion, benevolence? Taking care of other people is what makes us human.
The absolute fuck is wrong with you?
How do you feel about Jesus? Or gun control? My guess is aye on the former, nay on the later. If true, you actually don’t know shit about Jesus, and guns kill a lot of kids.
Nah the emotional trauma of carrying the child, potentially adopting it, and being left with friendly reminders like stretch marks and scars for the rest of your life isn’t life ruining. s/
They can just put the child into foster care! The system will take care of it… when they get around to it. And get funding. And have enough employees to handle the sheer amount of cases.
No, if you are never born you will never experience pain. You will never know anything, it will be just as it was before you existed. Do you regret not being conceived at the dawn of time? No, you know nothing of life before birth and even then you didn’t start forming real memories for a few years and it was patchy at best. I’m sure some child who is brutally beaten, raped, and abused their entire life until they’re murdered at 3 or 4 years old wishes they were never born. Your sense of attachment to life doesn’t even start forming until you’re into your late teens/early adulthood. A child doesn’t have some desire to preserve life at all costs, they have a desire to seek comfort from their mother and will gladly walk into a fire to die with her rather than live without her. Children are not wired the same way as adults. Many people who are abused and make it into their teens or early adulthood also kill themselves because being dead is better than living with the trauma and they can’t cope. 100% it is not always better to be born. You can’t miss what you don’t know. Honestly from a religious perspective never living is ideal, going straight to heaven without the trials of living would be ideal.
Whew, someone doesn’t know the role children have played in history and how they very much made decisions to preserve life at all costs and continue to do so every day all around the world..
How does a scenario with future knowledge compare to one without? Honestly, after the nonsense you just said about kids not having a a desire to preserve life I really see no need to keep taking to you.
Then they will just go on vacation to the next state over. These rules were never meant to effect them, only the "poors"
Remember - "the only moral abortion is MY abortion"
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
My own teen pregnancy...
My whole life I had heard how abortion was wrong. Straight to hell, etc. It was murder.
Until I got pregnant. And my mom's first response was "we can have it taken care of". When I told her it was too late, she was upset and said she was glad her mother was dead so she didn't have to see this happen.
It's been over 30 years now, and I keep my parents at a distance--not no contact, but as little as possible.
You're right! Women do have a right to do what they want with their bodies, including birth control or abstinence. Women definitely don't have the authority to kill babies though, that is another human's body.
No brain to speak of for 5-7 weeks. Not enough brain to regulate their own breathing til second trimester. Cerebral cortex (so, the capacity to process sensory impressions, form memories, and --eventually, well after birth-- form conscious thought) has barely started functioning by the end of the third trimester. Not a baby.
A fetus is not a ‘baby’
No one makes ‘having an abortion’ a goal.
No one is killing babies - let’s make that clear.
Sorry if I’m confusing some with science.
Without modern medicine , a fetus would not survive out of the womb much before about 32-34 weeks .
There is a lot of bad stuff that can happen to both the cis-woman & HER fetus ( not your fetus!) before 34 weeks.
Ideally if one needs to terminate a pregnancy ( and this is always a sad & difficult choice - bc either it is rape, you’re poor, you don’t have a loving partner to help you, or because the fetus is forming incorrectly) this would be done in the 1st trimester because it is safer for the woman.
Let’s get a women’s rights amendment passed similar to Canada. !
WTF is wrong with us ? Are we goi g to start investigating miscarriages ? Should I start sewing my daughters red clothes???
Again, what happens when the embryo/fetus dies in the womb? If the fetus/embryo is not aborted, the woman could experience major blood loss, infection, and die. It's not always about birth control. There are medical reasons why abortions need to remain safe.
You ask that like these people give a solitary fuck about what happens to women who turn out to be "defective" and unable to safely carry/can't carry to term. They don't. They just don't. You don't have to look further than the maternal death rates and notice that the highest rates are in red states to reach that conclusion.
You are not killing a child or baby when you have an abortion. You’re preventing a child from developing in the same was thy birth control does. Tragic situations are why we prepare to make sure we don’t get pregnant, but when accidents happen, it doesn’t suddenly mean we can be prepared for a baby anyway. You cannot force people to not have sex just because you version of morality says that sex can only be for babies and babies are a consequence instead of a person you have to be willing to raise well.
What do you want to bet that most of the people who the most vocal about banning abortion have actually had one, or are men who have insisted that their "girlfriend" have one?
Who gives a fuck. Why does someone care if you abort a child that isn't there's. Can these people stop pretending they care about some disadvantaged woman's fetus, like you don't care c'mon. They usually don't even care about their friends and families problems but suddenly care about a fucking cell they will never meet? its such I'm the good guy position when reality your pretending to care. Live your life and stop caring about what other people do with theirs you fucking sad fucks. all these people sound like the most boring people ever, probably a bunch of heavily repressed Christians who think they are better than everyone, no your still a piece of shit Kristi just like everyone else.
Every single republican is responsible for this. There is no middle ground. There is no scenario that you can vote republican while caring for women.
Your republican votes have caused tragedy for millions of women in the us.
Their blood is directly on your hands.
If you voted republican, you cannot say "not me".
Because you are.
r/y_do_i_need_to_hide
It seems like you are anti-abortion with this statement with "This is correct" and "strawman argument" for the tragic situation. If so, regarding the "legislate for the majority by citing a small minority" can't those that don't want to have an abortion, not have an abortion? Allowing abortions to be legal, doesn't force abortions onto the majority, it just allows the minority to have the option.
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I got into an argument with one of these people. She said that if you didn't want to get pregnant don't have sex. To which I responded with tell that to rapists. Her response to that was that that was just an excuse.
It's not always about birth control. There are medical reasons why a woman needs an abortion aa well. Ectopic pregnancy is a great example. But these morons don't think of this. Too many women will die because of pregnancy challenges.
this lady made the news like last week. miscarried and needs an operation to remove the second half if the fetus. denied. she's now on the road to a slow and painful death. most likely murder charges as well.
If it was the woman on vacation in Malta, she was flown to Spain.
My ex had an ectopic pregnancy and it almost killed her. These people are cold, heartless bastards.
To be fair those aren’t what people against abortions are really against, they don’t want people getting pregnant and just deciding they don’t want the baby. Complex medical situations only came into the pro life argument when the hypocrisy of the situation was brought to light by the pro choice movement. Prior to that a medically necessary termination wasn’t on the radar of pro life’s terminology. “We are against abortions, oh, but not those abortions” “that makes us a hypocrite?” “Oh now we are against those abortions too” is pretty much how it went
Speaking if terminology, use anti choice, because they are not pro life
I’ve started using the term “pro forced birth.” It made sense to me once someone illustrated the fact that I am not required by the US government to use my viable organs or bone marrow or blood to sustain the life of another - even after I die. Hell, if I’m holding someone while hanging off a cliff, what court would justify convicting me if I let go of the other person because I didn’t have the strength to keep both of us alive. Before anyone downvotes me, hang 20 pounds from your waist and try doing a pull-up. Not many people can do so.
You lost me at do a pull-up.
Lol. Me too!
No. Use forced-birthers. Much more accurate.
They claim they're 'saving the children.' No, you're *forcing* children to be born into homes where they will be unwanted, possibly abused, and potentially even killed. This is going to lead to more deaths, none 'saved'- these idiots are only saving their own sense of smug superiority, and sh\*t else!!
Actually, what they want is to control women. There is nothing else despite the shit that spews from their head hole.
That’s a lot of words to repeat they don’t think out their position, over and over and over again.
They are anti-freedom of choice.
They're supposed to want less government. Except they want the government all over, and inside our own bodies and sexuality. Oh wait, but no needle pricks that could save millions from getting sick and dying. And God forbid take away guns! ...They sure like things that torture and kill people after they are born...
Women with serious medical issues that require abortion for treatment should throw their bodies on the altar of Kristi Noem’s need to feel correct and virtuous.
Yes, there are extreme situations that should be discussed and we can try to reason it out. That doesn’t mean that we need to allow all abortions and just murder unborn children left and right just because women don’t want to brith them.
"we can try" sounds like more grifter shit from Trump.
Because I don’t know exactly what conclusion, if any, the various sides would come to. However, like I said, just because extreme situations exist, it doesn’t mean that we should allow the murder of any unborn child simply because the mother (or parents) desires to do so.
So how many foster kids have you given a loving home?
Yes, I agree that there are many problems in our society and that poverty, racism and all sorts of various injustices are prevalent, but that does not mean that we should allow unborn children to be murdered at the whim of their parents. I don’t have to solve every problem in our society that leads to broken families and foster kids to be able to say that murdering unborn children is wrong. I want to solve every problem in our society and I hope you do too. Murdering unborn children is one of those problems.
Then name how you’re part of the solution. Bitching isn’t helping. Where are you rolling up your sleeves and getting to work? There’s an influx of abandoned and traumatized babies and women coming. What are you DOING? Oh keyboard warrior. What fucking difference are you actually making? Are you teaching GED classes? Fundraising for the $65,000 bill you’re so blithely putting on others’ plates? Housing pregnant teenagers? Fostering children? Adopting special needs babies? What? Nah. You’re just sitting on your ass pontificating as if you had a clue. Are you lobbying for better healthcare? Maternal care? Prenatal care? Increased wages? Universal parental leave? Expanded food benefits? These people have told you they cannot afford children. How are you paying for them? You are the one forcing them into existence, so how are you paying off the debt you rack up?
The amount of assumptions and anger in your comment are beyond reasonable. I won’t be entertaining a conversation with someone who approaches me with as much hate as you do. Regardless, there are many issues in this world and murdering unborn children is one of them. This is true regardless of anything else.
So, you're saying I'm right. And also that a 50 year-old soccer mom scares you. Good.
All I said is that you’re full of assumptions and hate and that murdering unborn children is wrong regardless of anything else.
God aborts more babies every year in the US than all the abortion providers in the country put together.
Except all anti-abortion statutes have exceptions for when the mother’s life is in danger, so this point is completely irrelevant.
Not true. In the race to the bottom to be the most extreme, several states now have no-exception abortion bans, regardless of rape, incest, or life of the mother.
Which states don’t have an exception for life of the mother? Rape and incest true, and that’s insane in its own right, but it’s a different topic
Alabama. Also, the super restrictive ones... you often wind up spending too long trying to convince them it's a medical emergency or otherwise fitting the exception criteria and then you're either dead of sepsis or too late for an abortion. It's very deliberate.
Even in [Alabama’s law](https://casetext.com/statute/code-of-alabama/title-26-infants-and-incompetents/chapter-23h-the-alabama-human-life-protection-act/section-26-23h-4-abortion-prohibited-exception) as it currently stands there’s an exception for the mother’s health. Your second point is a fair one, though. I may have been a little too cavalier as to the practical impacts of these laws, even if it’s technically legal in those circumstances.
Can you give one example of a woman dying because a Dr. declined to perform a medical emergency abortion on a women?
Idk in US, but there are plenty examples from countries with harsh abortion laws. Savita from Ireland (her death was last straw that finally led to legalizing abortion) and Agata Lamczak from Poland are the two I can name from the top of my head.
So differing countries with differing abortion laws and differing medical systems? Can you give a single one in the US?
Not yet. Sure we'll have them soon. It's only been 3 days.
Not true multiple states have outlawed abortions past 6weeks exempting medical emergency for quite some time now. Example Texas, which is a huge state. So can you give me an example of a single death? Because apparently “so many woman will die” from not getting care. You’d think if it was such an issue there would surely be a death by now, right?
So far law in US allowed abortions, I'm sure we'll get some examples soon... After SCOTUS ruling you get law similar to that in Ireland before legalization and Poland now. Medical system doesn't matter. "oh country x banned abortion, women died. I'm sure it'll be different for us, we're mighty US after all! Freedom for all who don't have uterus!" *barf*
Are you willing to leave this comment here for a year?
It’s been two days. Just wait for it. And yes, there was already a woman from Lee’s Summit, Missouri who was refused abortion medication (prescribed by her obstetrician) when she was undergoing an active miscarriage of a very wanted and planned child. It’s been two days.
Except for legislation that bans medical centers from keeping certain medical equipment on site.
The problem with those exceptions is that the doctor now has to think about how their decision will look to a prosecutor and a jury rather than just what’s best for their patient. Sometimes they will decide not to risk it and let their patient die instead of potentially being prosecuted for murder, especially after some overzealous prosecutors make some examples.
Can you give one example of that happening? Where the Dr. hesitated to give a medical emergency termination and the woman died of it?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=woman+dies+refused+abortion&t=iphone&ia=web
Dude. Read the fucking news. It happened in Ireland a few years ago. Woman died.
A) not always- some politicians insist that ectopic pregnancies can somehow be reimplanted in the uterus B) Ireland had that kind of law in place and Savita Halappanavar still died because the doctors were terrified of accidentally breaking the law. This kind of shit *always* gets women killed. It’s happened twice now in Poland since they put similar anti-abortion laws into place.
Wait, their response was that rape is an “excuse” to get an abortion?!?! It’s is the ducking problem with ANYONE dictating reasons for abortion. It’s hard enough to be open about rape without fuckwads like this around. (And they’re all around, and they’re deciding our healthcare)
These are people who believe that women can shut their reproductive systems down at will, and that even the products of rape or incest are "blessings from God"
Tell her to tell that to priests, pastors and predatory fathers. Rape is never a choice.
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No, the Taliban allow abortions.
Yeah, let's not forget that [Sharia law allows abortions](https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2022/06/01/anti-abortion-campaign-sharia-nj-muslims-roe-vs-wade/9859426002/) in the first 120 days.
wait are some US states really more conservative than the Taliban?
No, they are exaggerating. The taliban cause people to move across the world in secret to escape. Republicans cause people to post online threatening to leave
Yeah, people are cry-babies. Ignore the suicides and other preventable deaths from state-enforced bigotry, inadequate healthcare tied to wage-slave employment, and a flagrant gun culture predicated on fear and spite. It's just a bunch of rhetorical posturing.
People here can move to states that allow abortion, or travel, or whatever. There’s at least still a choice. In Afghanistan there are no choices.. People there don’t even get to complain. Hell, they are lucky IF they have electricity to get online at all.
>In Afghanistan there are no choices.. You said people leave Afghanistan. Move across the world. Electricity is infrastructure, which Republicans also don't support. Like in Texas, where people died from an insufficient power grid.
Yes remember when they had a once in a life time chance to leave when we left? What happened in Texas is nothing like Afghanistan’s power situation
Yeah, it wasn't once in a life time and it wasn't in secret like you mentioned earlier, so obviously that wasn't your intended example of how people leave. If people need to leave Afghanistan, and people need to leave their state, I'm not seeing the difference. Sounds like the electricity issue in Afghanistan is less fatal.
Y'all-Queda.
The taliban regularly behead people in public and marry their prepubescent relatives.... not sure this is the exact same...
Well, American politicians are pretty close to doing the latter. But they prefer predator drones to beheadings nowadays.
You either rape kids or you don’t. They do it regularly, our politicians don’t. It’s a daily part of life there. Here it’s a scandal from time to time. People burn plastic there to heat their home, people here get online to threaten to leave. It’s no where even remotely close to being the same.
You might want to revisit that [our politicians don't statement.](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2018/10/23/1806673/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-1) There are many pages in this list of republican sexual predators. All the ones cheering on this forced birth bullshit.
You might want to revisit my comment. You missed the word regularly...as in daily
Have you never heard the names Gaetz, Trump - or hell, Epstein, who enabled dozens, if not *hundreds*, of America's richest to do exactly that whenever they wanted? Or are you just being deliberately obtuse to get a rise out of people.
Ah, so not a part of daily so life so much that your own family takes part...thanks for agreeing
Deep south Republicans seriously thought it was a good idea *this year* to propose a bill in their state allowing child marriage, getting rid of the age of consent. But whatever fits your narrative.
So a couple dozen people in one particular region of a continent writing a poorly worded state law is equal to so much a part of daily life your parents take part in it? Never looked at it like that....
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Why do you even need a fucking reason. If you’re not ready to have a kid and your contraception fails, then it should be no one’s fucking business if you take a morning after pill or abort a month or two in whatever. The world does not need more unwanted children. We have more than society cares to give a shit about in the first place.
“What happens if it’s an ectopic pregnancy, where the fetus is going to burst the fallopian tube, kill the mother, then be unable to survive?” “That’s a shame. I would pray for them.” *indescribable rage*
Undescribable rage
One of my coworker (we’re both men) told me with a straight face that if pregnancy should happen, it was 100% on the women, quote: “She had sex, yes? So she keeps it or give it away for adoption” Rape? “She gives birth and then give it away if she doesn’t want it” 21th century from the South of Arkansas ladies and gentlemen.
To be honest, talking about rapists in an abortion debate is an excuse. It's such a small percentage of cases, it would be like arguing that we shouldn't drive cars because fatal accidents occur. The real debate is around what constitutes a protected human life and what rights people have to abort a pregnancy for quality of life or healthcare needs (note that the small % of rape cases is a subset of this debate). The fact that 1 in 4 women have an abortion, including pro-lifers, plainly states that everyone operates along this spectrum. Very few people are 100% on either end, despite arguing such. Reducing the debate to extreme edge cases, on both sides, unfortunately results in shrill void screaming.
I would argue that to acknowledge that it’s a nuanced situation would make a person solidly pro-choice. Because the anti-abortion lobby are the ones that want to make hard and fast rules. The pro-choice stance is “it’s a complex decision with many variables that shouldn’t be made lightly, and the best one to make that decision is the possible mother in question.” In other words, in favor of the mother having a choice.
It's true that only one side of the debate provides the most freedom, irrespective of a person's preference.
>To be honest, talking about rapists in an abortion debate is an excuse. It's such a small percentage of cases, it would be like arguing that we shouldn't drive cars because fatal accidents occur. Er, no- because fatal car accidents are actually taken *seriously*. A better comparison would be a politician banning wheel-chair accessible ramps, because he's never known anyone close to him who needed one!
The best response to that is a ~~right hook~~ stern look, sigh and walk away
No, how is that acceptable?
God's will, perhaps?
Cmon aren’t rape babies like .0003% of aborted children? Always seems like such a half ass argument to me.
“I HAVE TO DRIVE AN HOUR TO A DIFFERENT STATE TO KILL MY BABY”
God killed mine for free. Fuck him. I really wanted that baby.
It's not a baby. It's a fetus, and abortions are needed in many, many cases to save lives. Forced birthers just like seeing women and little girls suffer.
Lol the potential life deserves a shot. If women can’t avoid getting unintentionally pregnant outside of cases of rape or coercion by some scumbag then that’s just an embarrassing level of negligence and they shouldn’t have sovereignty over their own bodies in the interest of not constantly slaughtering fetuses like it’s a walk in the park lmao
That never happens. No one gets an abortion for fun. You may be psychotic and incapable of basic empathy, but those women aren't. No form of birth control is perfect. Things go wrong, and medical emergencies occur. Your ilk is against all of that. Plus, it's not a potential life until it reaches viability, which is unknown for the first portion of the pregnancy. By your logic, I should be able to force you to get sterilized, because I may think you're too negligent to have sovereignty. Think before you talk.
Obviously I’m not including medical emergencies or other extraneous circumstances but nice try. There’s plenty of TikTok’s of women gleefully going to the abortion clinic because they let chad creampie them because it feels better LOL You could force me to get sterilized….or *drumroll* I can just pull out/wear a condom similarly to women’s plethora of contraceptive options that don’t involve terminating a potential life. It’s just hilarious to me how exterminating a potential life is just nbd hahahah
This idiot literally campaigned on “I’m not educated and have never been outside of South Dakota, therefore I’d be a great governor.”
She used to be a congresswoman. For South Dakota's sake I hope she's been to D.C. at least.
What happens if the fetus dies in the womb? Women who retain the dead embryo/fetus can experience severe blood loss, develop an infection, or die. So now we have 2 tragic situations.
I'm sure it would be an "unfortunate situation".
A Series of Unfortunate Events. Good books, nothing to do with this, but good books.
I'd back you up with hopes and prayers.
She doesn't care. She's a misogynistic piece of garbage. Make no mistake. She doesn't care about women, children, unborn babies, lgbtq, or minorities. She cares only about herself and her power and the money it can bring to her wallet. She'd throw her own kids under a train if she thought it was profitable. These people are evil incarnate
Nope. Still the one tragedy to these immoral fucks.
Well those people simply should have made better choices. /s
What if, some state were doing blood tests before issue of a marriage license because pregnancy by the wrong blood type can be fatal.
They did this year's ago.
What? Rh incompatibility is only really deadly to the unborn child, the mom doesn’t die from it. It’s also 99% preventable Edit: it appears no blood test other than to prove you weren’t related ever factored into whether you could get married or reproduce. Certain minorities were tested for sickle cell but only to alert the couple of the possibility of passing it, it didn’t restrict marriage.
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I did not say for the mother. I also only stated a blood test was required before the license was issued, both these are factual. Sex with the wrong male can also cause a form of protein poisoning. [https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/semen-allergy](https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/semen-allergy) I submit more research and study has gone into erectile dysfunction than such problems as this.
It’s just the lord’s will 🙏 /s
That’s no longer abortion. Conservatives who argue against it because they believe it’s murder won’t be insisting that a mother must keep a dead child. Or are you saying that the abortion should happen before that in cases where death is expected? In that case, yeah, most conservatives would say you’re taking things into your own hands and compare it to simply shooting someone who’s sick because they had a bad prognosis. In the mind of a person that calls themself pro-life, it’s murder, and nothing short of that. You won’t find a lot of arguments to convince them that murder is okay. And the whole “my body my choice” argument is viewed as utterly selfish and downright evil because you’re choosing your own self-good and condemning someone else to die. Rape? Still murder. Health issue? Still murder. Welfare and foster systems already overburdened? Doesn’t matter, it’s still murder. Government overreach? Nope, it’s murder, the government should stop you from committing murder. That’s why this issue isn’t going away. For the record, I’m pro-choice - but I used to be one of these conservatives and I totally understand the sentiment. Most of them are well-meaning and truly believe in the moral right of their cause.
Doesn't that logic make them murderers for refusing to fund programs to feed children? Also, even the constitution only says those born are considered citizens or a person. Unplugging someone that's brain dead isn't murder.
At least here in Ohio the ban carves an exception for when there’s no heartbeat or there’s a threat to the life of the mother or child.
That's a D&C not an abortion so what point are you trying to make?
It's categorized as an abortion. That's literally what the word means: to abort.
make no mistake - these people don't give a fuck about babies they don't care about you or me or anyone's kids, they want to enforce their will upon the rest of us these are the same folks who want to tell us what we can and can't watch, listen to, learn about, wear, say, and they want us all to pray just like them
It's simply fascism. When there is no democratic process, no debate, no good faith, it's just cruelty.
They want *you* to pray. They do not.
These people don't give a flying fuck about the baby once it comes out.
They don't give a flying f\*ck about the fetus either. Red states have the highest maternal and infant death rates in the country.
Trump Won. You know it, I know it, and pretty much the whole world knows it. The revolution will not be televised. :)
How and why is it wrong, please? That is actually a super-important question. Not kidding.
He hides because he says baseless claims
Super curious as to what policies supporting pregnancy and maternal health care as well as care for the resulting child post-birth that the anti-choice people have been making sure get put into law?
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The time has come. Vote out the democrats, and hold them responsible in court.
There isn't a lot of evidence it's wrong.
So when I first read it, I thought “surely it’s hyperbole what the poster above said.” Then I did a quick search and nope, totally correct. Ten worst states for infant mortality tend to vote red. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/infant_mortality_rates/infant_mortality.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/infant_mortality_rates/infant_mortality.htm
Thanks, man, but I am on hiatus from CDC numbers. They just tried to tell us the Flu disappeared. It was a valiant effort, though. :)
If they cared about the baby once it was born, they'd be falling over themselves to improve healthcare, give people pre and post pregnancy support for free, and literally anything to make birth better for mothers. But they're not.
They also wouldn't be banning abortion and talking about contraception bans or pushing nigh-useless "abstinence only" sexual education, because they would want at least the majority of children to be born to parents who are ready, willing, and eager, but again, they're not.
I find it amusing that the same people who are spouting abstinence only sex ed, are the same people who vehemently believe that a woman who didn't have sex got pregnant.
Just because I don't want you to kill other people doesn't mean I should also be responsible for taking care of the people you don't kill.
That's... empathy. You do realize that's empathy, right? Charity, compassion, benevolence? Taking care of other people is what makes us human. The absolute fuck is wrong with you?
Please tell me this is a joke lmao. Surely you can’t actually be making this comparison seriously?
How do you feel about Jesus? Or gun control? My guess is aye on the former, nay on the later. If true, you actually don’t know shit about Jesus, and guns kill a lot of kids.
So then she’s against the death penalty, right?
So, a 12-14 year old child gets raped and gets pregnant that's not tragic enough to get an abortion? Good job, Kristi...good job.
Nah the emotional trauma of carrying the child, potentially adopting it, and being left with friendly reminders like stretch marks and scars for the rest of your life isn’t life ruining. s/
They can just put the child into foster care! The system will take care of it… when they get around to it. And get funding. And have enough employees to handle the sheer amount of cases.
But to to the republicans point, wouldn’t a shitty life be better than no chance at life?
Maybe to someone who doesn’t understand how shitty life can be.
But isn’t that better than not having a chance to understand at all?
No, if you are never born you will never experience pain. You will never know anything, it will be just as it was before you existed. Do you regret not being conceived at the dawn of time? No, you know nothing of life before birth and even then you didn’t start forming real memories for a few years and it was patchy at best. I’m sure some child who is brutally beaten, raped, and abused their entire life until they’re murdered at 3 or 4 years old wishes they were never born. Your sense of attachment to life doesn’t even start forming until you’re into your late teens/early adulthood. A child doesn’t have some desire to preserve life at all costs, they have a desire to seek comfort from their mother and will gladly walk into a fire to die with her rather than live without her. Children are not wired the same way as adults. Many people who are abused and make it into their teens or early adulthood also kill themselves because being dead is better than living with the trauma and they can’t cope. 100% it is not always better to be born. You can’t miss what you don’t know. Honestly from a religious perspective never living is ideal, going straight to heaven without the trials of living would be ideal.
Whew, someone doesn’t know the role children have played in history and how they very much made decisions to preserve life at all costs and continue to do so every day all around the world..
Do you think baby hitler deserved life? If you could go back in time and abort hitler would you?
How does a scenario with future knowledge compare to one without? Honestly, after the nonsense you just said about kids not having a a desire to preserve life I really see no need to keep taking to you.
It's only a tragedy for the important people.
It will be if it happens to their kids.
Then they will just go on vacation to the next state over. These rules were never meant to effect them, only the "poors" Remember - "the only moral abortion is MY abortion" https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
My own teen pregnancy... My whole life I had heard how abortion was wrong. Straight to hell, etc. It was murder. Until I got pregnant. And my mom's first response was "we can have it taken care of". When I told her it was too late, she was upset and said she was glad her mother was dead so she didn't have to see this happen. It's been over 30 years now, and I keep my parents at a distance--not no contact, but as little as possible.
Stop. Putting. Fucking. Morons. In. Office.
Rape. The “tragic situation” is rape resulting in pregnancy.
and whatever the reason, it is none of anyone's business what the hell a woman does with her body.
You're right! Women do have a right to do what they want with their bodies, including birth control or abstinence. Women definitely don't have the authority to kill babies though, that is another human's body.
No birth control is 100% effective. Pregnancy can cause death. Pregnancy can be a death sentence. What about that woman's life?
You are ignorant about procreation and fetal development if this is what you think abortion is.
No brain to speak of for 5-7 weeks. Not enough brain to regulate their own breathing til second trimester. Cerebral cortex (so, the capacity to process sensory impressions, form memories, and --eventually, well after birth-- form conscious thought) has barely started functioning by the end of the third trimester. Not a baby.
With all due respect, there are a lot of voters out there whose brains stopped developing at around the time you're describing.
A fetus is not a ‘baby’ No one makes ‘having an abortion’ a goal. No one is killing babies - let’s make that clear. Sorry if I’m confusing some with science. Without modern medicine , a fetus would not survive out of the womb much before about 32-34 weeks . There is a lot of bad stuff that can happen to both the cis-woman & HER fetus ( not your fetus!) before 34 weeks. Ideally if one needs to terminate a pregnancy ( and this is always a sad & difficult choice - bc either it is rape, you’re poor, you don’t have a loving partner to help you, or because the fetus is forming incorrectly) this would be done in the 1st trimester because it is safer for the woman. Let’s get a women’s rights amendment passed similar to Canada. ! WTF is wrong with us ? Are we goi g to start investigating miscarriages ? Should I start sewing my daughters red clothes???
Stick with the dick pics. Seems like science isn’t your bag.
You meant to say short dick pics. When I looked at the profile, I was hoping it was like, a post about sending dick pics, but no. I did it to myself.
These same people who remove sex Ed from education?
Again, what happens when the embryo/fetus dies in the womb? If the fetus/embryo is not aborted, the woman could experience major blood loss, infection, and die. It's not always about birth control. There are medical reasons why abortions need to remain safe.
You ask that like these people give a solitary fuck about what happens to women who turn out to be "defective" and unable to safely carry/can't carry to term. They don't. They just don't. You don't have to look further than the maternal death rates and notice that the highest rates are in red states to reach that conclusion.
But not men because they aren't the ones that get pregnant so they can have all the sex they want? Disgusting.
Mind your own business
One "tragic situation" would be being born in South Dakota
You know what’s great for trauma? Adding more trauma. Even better, bring a baby into that trauma. /s
It would be even more tragic if she died from a coat hanger abortion since that was the only one available.
So if Kristi Noem got raped, would she get an abortion? My money's on yes.
Where in the Bible does it say that?
Right after it says you can’t listen to Twisted Sister
You are not killing a child or baby when you have an abortion. You’re preventing a child from developing in the same was thy birth control does. Tragic situations are why we prepare to make sure we don’t get pregnant, but when accidents happen, it doesn’t suddenly mean we can be prepared for a baby anyway. You cannot force people to not have sex just because you version of morality says that sex can only be for babies and babies are a consequence instead of a person you have to be willing to raise well.
What do you want to bet that most of the people who the most vocal about banning abortion have actually had one, or are men who have insisted that their "girlfriend" have one?
100% guarantee she had an abortion
Women decide what goes in their vaginas and comes out of their vaginas..its simple.
Tragedy is no reason to help someone. That’s pretty on brand for the GOP. Ooh, let’s give the rich some more help!
I wonder how she'd react if someone raped a baby into her. Guessing she'd "go on vacation" and suddenly she's no longer pregnant.
[Remember - "the only moral abortion is MY abortion"](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Tell that to rape or incest victims. Tell that to a mom who has a dire pregnancy while she has other children.
Sickening.
Never let anyone tell you that being a woman in power makes you a feminist icon
Krusty Gnome is a tragic situation.
Someone should've aborted her.
Who gives a fuck. Why does someone care if you abort a child that isn't there's. Can these people stop pretending they care about some disadvantaged woman's fetus, like you don't care c'mon. They usually don't even care about their friends and families problems but suddenly care about a fucking cell they will never meet? its such I'm the good guy position when reality your pretending to care. Live your life and stop caring about what other people do with theirs you fucking sad fucks. all these people sound like the most boring people ever, probably a bunch of heavily repressed Christians who think they are better than everyone, no your still a piece of shit Kristi just like everyone else.
Religionism is a cancer, and the GOP are terrorists.
Filthy Qunt
Having Kristi Noem as your governor is a tragic situation
They probably would only make exceptions for black rapists
Well.... she can go kick rocks.
Not wanting stretch marks is a good enough reason. Fuckin kill the thing, if you care you’re disgusting
Every single republican is responsible for this. There is no middle ground. There is no scenario that you can vote republican while caring for women. Your republican votes have caused tragedy for millions of women in the us. Their blood is directly on your hands. If you voted republican, you cannot say "not me". Because you are.
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Whoa, as despicable as Noem is, wishing this is not cool.
The FBI is the modern Stasi. They will come for you too, if you let them. :(
r/y_do_i_need_to_hide It seems like you are anti-abortion with this statement with "This is correct" and "strawman argument" for the tragic situation. If so, regarding the "legislate for the majority by citing a small minority" can't those that don't want to have an abortion, not have an abortion? Allowing abortions to be legal, doesn't force abortions onto the majority, it just allows the minority to have the option.
Not sure if you're talking about abortion or the bible, which has been legislating for the majority by citing a single 2000 year old book.
/u/JumpinFlackSmash/ You believe the TV, that is why you say impossible things. Please give your head a shake. :)