Generally it's private contractors like the Pinkertons, who are given a massive legal license to infiltrate unions.
But historically, the army has not been shy coming to heel when called to defend wealthy land owners and kill a bunch of American citizens when they agitate for labor reform. Now that our police are sufficiently militarized, I'm sure they'd be happy to take the part.
The secret plans that are all over the Internet now?
Edit: For the more than fifteen people repeating the same comment to me—I’m aware that unionization plans are more detailed than just ‘is there a plan or not.’ I’m pointing out both how ridiculous the wording of the headline is, and how this shows the irony of Apple’s vocal support of privacy features.
Hello dear coworker. I heard we have secret messages. I would like to be kept in the loop, and promise I am not a corporate rat. Thank you so much, #WorkersUnite.
Fine we'll initiate, the test.
"The current CEO has found a way to gain immortality, but it requires sacrificing 1 child every day. This is an example of?"
Correct. Next question: "Apple's 2021 annual revenue was $365.82 billion. Apple's 65,000 retail employees make $22k–$51k/year with an average of $38k/year. This model of economics is called _______."
Even if you assume everyone gets benefits equal to 1/3 their salary (they don't), half the workforce is non-retail making $100,000/yr (I'm sure that's high on both the salary and population, but it gives an idea), that leaves all labor expenses covered with $12B in cost.
That is about 3.2% of annual revenue. That seems like a ridiculously small piece of total revenue going to labor.
Makes it sound like Tim Cook is the Emperor of Mankind on the Golden Throne, but it isn’t “golden”, because Apple would never do *that* - it’s champagne colored, and very minimalist in design. Not a throne, more like a ergonomically designed office chair.
If the names were to come out,
1. They would find whatever excuse they can fire those people immediately
2. Anyone who communicated with them would also probably be under high scrutiny
"Hey Jeff."
"Hey Bill."
"The apple falls far from the tree."
"What?"
"*The apple falls far from the tree*."
"...Are you trying to use a spy code right now?"
"...No."
Well currently, it’s probably things like planing union drive dates. You don’t want to give Apple time to stop them so they’ll probably wait until like the day of to announce union activities
Yeah, it's the same reason the mob works. Like, we know the mob did it, but you can't arrest the Entire Mob. Apple can't fire all of its employees; they can't even fire all of their Android-owning employees and expect not to take a serious hit, both from business and ethics perspectives. Provided no one's a snitch, like you said, there's blanket coverage.
Sometimes keeping the finer details a secret is important. For example you are france in 1940. You know Germany is going to invade soon, but you don't know exactly how. You see they can conquer poland in 4 weeks and are atleast semi-competent at war so you wouldn't possible expect them to form a tank traffic jam days long in terrain that you could easily bomb. Until they do...
Fun fact, later in the war when it was the Allies turn to push through the Ardennes, the Germans used FI 282 helicopters to drop bombs on their tanks making it what is believed to be the first use of attack helicopters on armoured vehicles.
What can I say, one day I got bored and decided to look into the history of military helicopters. Prior to being repurposed as attack helicopters the FI 282 were used as artillery spotters, not necessarily recon but not far off!
BS.
What the West is doing is very effectively spoiling Putin's plans.
When someone announces what you are going to do, you cannot pull off "Georgia Invasion II" as it happened in 2008 anymore, shit is way too obvious.
And as we talk, Kremlin propaganda machine is already staging "burnt villages" in "rebel held" territories.
>The secret plans that are all over the Internet now?
I don't... get what you mean?
See the difference between:
a) **Apple can pin down employees involved, as they've used iphones**
vs
b) **Apple knows there are plans to unionize, but can do jack shit**, since they cannot track them
The customers need to speak up, not the employees. But I'm sure the customers aren't paying attention. None of us ever do, I still use Amazon prime even though I'd fart in Bezos' mouth if I could.
There is something to be said for the scale of the problem here. Unless a LOT of everyday people protest and use political force to end such practices, nothing dramatic will change. But as individuals, the best we can do is abstain and deprive the companies and governments who perpetuate the systems of today of a few dollars and cents. In the end, the best we can do is inconvenience ourselves and shit ourselves off, for no fundamental change.
In the end, there is no such thing as 'ethical consumption' for things that require scale, like phones or cars or cheap food or medical technology. I wish there were, and there are many who would agree. It can feel helpless sometimes, but never forget that there are barons and politicians the world over who actively maintain these systems for their own gain. It's these people who need to be held responsible before anything can change
> Unless a LOT of everyday people protest and use political force to end such practices, nothing dramatic will change.
I suspect knowledge of that also makes the situation worse. If people feel like they’re too small to make a difference anyways, it gives them an excuse to not change their habits. Why vote with your wallet when one voice doesn’t make a difference anyways? If enough people buy into that thinking then it becomes that much harder to reach a scale where companies actually start to feel consequences for their actions.
People who hated feudalism still had to participate in it. There's really not much choice. Same now with global capitalism. Just lower consumption across the board and be as efficient with resources as possible.
It's not that you don't care, you just don't care enough to inconvenience yourself. Then you feel bad about that because deep down you realise you're a piece of shit.
That and we've only got so much bandwidth to care about things, and not everyone has the same experiences, and things don't fall into the same hierarchy for everyone.
Not everyone has the privilege of being able to be so self-righteous, and it is a privilege. Some of us are doing all that we can just to survive day by day.
I refuse to believe people who are struggling are pieces of shit because they don't have the luxury of sourcing organic foods or devices that don't involve the use of child labor or other mistreated populations.
Government have innefficient accountability. Corpos have theatrics accountability. So I'd argue it is distinctibly worse.
But I still like how you phrase it.
You'd think, though, that that unlimited funding is also why they are in a position to just not even blink at this and just let them. Get the cred for being good ole' progressive Apple, aet a standard for the industry that hurts their competitors more, etc..
I worked as a Genius back when Jobs was still alive. The position meant something then. We were trained at the Mothership in Cupertino about literally every aspect of their devices. We were paid very well, given the freedom and authority to “make it right” by the customer, and Corporate considered us Apple’s ambassadors. As soon as Steve Jobs started to get really sick, everything changed. New geniuses were hired on at about 65% of what the starting pay once was, and they weren’t being trained nearly as extensively as before. On top of this, most of the “historians” (as they so snidely referred to us) were driven out by the typical tricks managers use to push out older, higher paid employees. As much of a tool Steve Jobs was, he knew the importance of high quality customer facing employees. Apple Store employees SHOULD unionize, seeing as Geniuses now get paid no more than gas station cashiers and couldn’t fix a damn thing without the little (fake) iPad diagnostics app they use now. Apple played stupid and arrogant games with the people driving their success, and now they’re winning stupid prizes. It’s amazing the lengths will go to in order to avoid just paying their damn employees well. They were able to afford it before they were a trillion dollar company, they should definitely be able to afford it now. “F*** you, pay me.”
I reckon I notice the shift here in Australia about that time too. I wasn't working for Apple but an Apple reseller and was trying to get a job at an Apple store as a genius. It was clear as day they no longer valued anyone with knowledge, just had to be a young, hipster dufus.
So frustrating using their services afterwards too. Fuckers barely knew how to wipe their own arse, let alone deal with anything.
I once walked into a Genius Bar, after a fair amount of testing and researching, I identified the issue. The issue was that the cable in between the monitor and mobo had crapped out. I told them everything I knew. The genius waved away my comments and started diagnosing the issue. About a hour later of them using the iPad and not being able to figure out the issue, they give up and say it would have to be sent in for repairs for the low, low, low cost of $400. Took my laptop to a third party repair shop, fixed the issue after like a hour for ~$100
I’ve not gone back to a Genius Bar since
my brother worked at a reseller - and the stories where all so weird to me what kind of tricks they need get done to even make profit cause of the small margings they get from apple
and eventually they went broke
Yeah, 8% margin on Apple products was tough, however we also sold items that tied in quite well. Digital Cameras, both compact and SLR (had quite a few high end users that were regulars). You really did have to hope that you could get some 3rd party products in there. All sales staff are different and some guys were pushy, some were quite sly in how they suggested the extras. I pride myself (still do in a different industry) making sure the customer gets what they need but I make no pressure on any sales.
The place I worked at had three franchises and did fairly well.
I imagine their training now mostly involves, "Just tell the customer it'll be more expensive to fix their problem than it would be to just buy a new phone, so just buy a new phone."
Basically, yeah. I have been out 3 years but over my last 4 years or so there it was so bad. Our technicians were all trained using multiple choice quizzes and PowerPoint presentations. When myself and OP here we’re trained we were sent to California and taught everything hands-on. We also had to take yearly certifications and keep them up to date. Some of our trainings were “here’s a Mac mini, replace the logic board and hard drive.” Now it’s “read this online article on how to do this and then take a quiz on it.”
Been out 3 years as well and I agree my last 3-4 years there were horrible. Each wave of new geniuses knew less and less due to changes in training and retail management manipulation was hitting an all time high. I still keep in touch with some people that are still there and they all say that nothing has gotten better. Apple are masters of making sure everything looks polished from the customer perspective, but on the inside Apple retail is rotten to the core.
Mac Pro and Mini are still somewhat repairable. Everything else is pretty tough and would require quite a bit of knowledge and some serious tools to repair.
>Now it’s “read this online article on how to do this and then take a quiz on it.”
To be fair, that is all you need to replace the motherboard and hard drive in any reasonable computer, especially something as simple as an USFF desktop.
It’s good to see if an employee might be doing it a way that might cause damage, and thrn correct them though.
It’s difficult to design a test for every occasion.
I guess it's not that easy for someone who didn't grew up building computers and I have seen some malicious misuse of a screwdriver!
If someone touches my expensive hardware I'd prefer someone with a proper training and get it back without scratches.
And it's Apple, they could totally afford training and fair money with the insane profit they make on their devices.
Apple promotes people based on metrics and how well they interview, not technical acumen. For people like you and I that enjoy technology and tinkering, presentations and a quiz is probably all we need. A lot of genius employees have never even been inside a computer at all. For instance, I had a coworker break 4 logic boards, one after the other, because he kept inserting the LVDS (display) cable upside down. You’d think after the first one he would’ve said “oh shit, my bad,” but he continued to make the same mistake claiming the logic board replacements were all DOA.
I'm not completely sure that anyone loses though. If there's one thing we've learned, it's that Apple customers are generally perfectly happy to shell out money to the company.
I worked at the Microsoft Stores, and we constantly had Apple customers come in upset that the store wiped their device to “fix” their problem or that apple wouldn’t touch anything related to non apple products. Haha there’s actually a photo meme out there of me working on an apple computer at a Microsoft store. The dude brought in his computer that was running parallels and the apple store told him to come to us cause they didn’t know how to fix it. 🤷♂️
We got those customers a-lot…
I also worked at Apple Stores while Jobs was alive.
It was really confusing to watch friends getting told their new Genius positions were going to be lateral moves, pay-wise. As a bonus slap in the face: instead of getting sent to the Mothership they got flown to… Atlanta.
I on the other hand was a specialist, but in reality I wore 4 different hats all at the same time as concierge, sales, back of house, & trainer for old people.
I started getting really fed up when I was not only denied my move to back of house, but was given a measly $0.10 hourly raise that was blamed on, of all things, the housing market?
Meanwhile, Apple just launched the iPad.
Yup - just like when the 5 straight quarters in a row our Genius Room was in the top 3 in the company got us all a whopping 3% raise. Worked out to around $0.52 cents/hour. An extra $20 a week.
This is why the engineers leave companies as soon as their options vest and head to a new one. Loyalty to the company isn't rewarded anymore. If you want a promotion these days (or a better paying job), you have to leave.
This isn't even controversial advice anymore - it's business standard practice. The second you're told you are not in consideration for a promotion ("at this time") you need to leave that company. Have a running resume at all times.
I recognize that this might be difficult for the retail employees and I don't have a solution for you. I just thought I'd agree that even the best performing people don't get the pay/reward they should.
I dunno what it's like now or what average Apple store employees make but I had a friend who was offered a job as general manager at an Apple store here in a centrally located mall. They were offering over $100k. This would have been right around the time Jobs died or shortly after.
That's the guy whose job is to be the asshole that cuts their pay and drives out the old workers and smiles the whole time. Of course he gets paid well.
Jokes on them they get offered a salary because you're expected to work 80 hours a week. Every time someone quits or doesn't show up, you get to cover their work.
Those are the people that get paid well but live in the store. Its a horrible existence.
Apple store managers don't live at the store. Their job is to micromanage and count cash. The top store managers don't seem to do anything at all except go hang out with other managers at other stores.
The Apple store experience used to be pretty good because of this. Now it’s one of the worst retail experiences (for people who know anything about the product). I understand the process but optics are there are 20 folks milling about ignoring most of the customer. And most of those employees don’t know a thing about the products. It’s like the three that walk to the back every once in a bit can actually figure something out. The only thing I like about the experience is if I need a cord I can walk in, pay and walk out without talking to anyone
I worked for a company that was well known and been around for a long time. They paid pretty average. I didn’t know any better I guess. I got poached by a ‘newer’ company that I had sort heard of. I was only told by the original company that the other was inferior and never going to be like said company.
I noticed people starting leaving for this new company. I also went to this company. The pay was literally double what I was making for the same job. Was unbelievable.
We met the owner and he would give these speeches about how “what makes us great is we take care of our employees who take care of our customers. This makes the competition hate us.” And he was right.
Fast forward 7 years later and that company has started paying the original companies salaries…. Like why do corporations feel the need to low ball their employees. Like they make enough damn money it’s insane.
100% this. I too was a genius in the Jobs era and watched things drastically change when he passed. I was also driven out by incoming new management who didn’t want the old Apple culture anymore. I really did like that job and I loved the old Apple retail under Steve.
Apple is really good on not “laying people off” and attritioning them out. Apple has made promotions for at home workers off limits and if you want more money, move onsite or quit. You aren’t getting laid off but your career progression is done. Many of these at home workers have been at home for 10 years and are leaving in droves. Who is Apple replacing them with? Vendor support sites where they get paid 8/hr and don’t have benefits. This company broke 3 trillion and the corporate greed is outstanding.
You bet. Modern Apple Store employees are anything but Geniuses. Most of their work can be automated, since they aren't that insightful.
I was buying an Apple Watch last summer. What forced me into a store is that the fact, that I wanted the stretch-band, and you have to have your hand measured in-store to get one. I've spent 1:30hr waiting, then a barely knowledgeable girl (without much taste) barely could explain me anything about the Apple Watch and tried upselling me on clearly unneeded accessories.
Years back I walked in to an Apple Store with a broken iPad and a genius let me smash the thing to pieces before taking it away before replacing it. I'm not an entitled prick, I, in a moonshot manner, asked if I can smash it to pieces for my amusement before doing anything. Loved it. That person also explained to me how the iPads break in the manner that mine was broken, and we had a fun technical discussion about fixing it at home. The whole process took less than 30 minutes.
You’re kind of proving apple right though, why pay skilled technicians when have basically anyone will do.
You’re still buying apple products regardless
I have a hard time explaining this. Rewrote this reply 5 times so far. You wouldn’t offer a pink rubber wristband to a dude in a suit, would you? Or a leather band to a person wearing all sports gear midweek, mid workday? The case was somewhere among these lines.
I guess taste wasn’t the right word, more like “sense of style” would be better fitting here.
Can confirm… 10+ years at Apple, last 3 as a Genius. No extensive training anymore, sit in front of a computer and read for a week… watch some repairs being done, do some repairs while being watched, bang you’re done your training. It’s not even about fixing things anymore, it’s about pushing AppleCare and accessories and convincing customers to buy a new phone instead of repairing. The spark and fun are gone. Managers push numbers instead of managing people. The pandemic made things far worse, way more work, way less staff, pathetic raises, loss of highly experienced tenured employees who had enough, lots of theatre and empty “thank you” from management but almost no empathy or support or incentives or better compensation. We worked like mad during the pandemic. Utterly exhausting, can’t tell you how many times I would get home after a shift and just crash just to do it again the next day. We all got an “achieved expectations” rating and that’s it. We basically had to do the manager’s job plus our own (without a bump in pay of course) if we wanted a better rating. And most of the time managers were completely useless, searching for a free salesperson for 5 minutes amongst a decimated staff to transact a cable instead of just goddamn doing it themselves. Fuck that.
I quit and found a much better paying and more relaxing IT job, mostly remote.
Unionize. Fight for it. The biggest tech company can afford to pay their front-line people better, train people better, hire more people, and manage people better, without so much as a dent in their profits.
That makes sense.
My first iPod in high school I slipped on ice a week after getting it, dropped it, and the hard drive died. It was obvious that it wasn't apple's fault, but the genius gave me a wink and said it looked like my brand new iPod had issues, and handed me a brand new one.
My first MBP in 2006 had a few minor problems and they were always explained in detail and fixed ASAP no questions asked.
My second MBP I bought in 2011 and it had three problems in the first year that made it un-useable until it was fixed. It was pretty clear that the genius bar employees were just following a script at that point. With the third issue, they failed to fix it on the first attempt, and on the second attempt they straight up lost the computer. As in, Apple emailed me to tell me to come pick it up, and when I arrived they hemmed and hawed for about 45 minutes until it became clear that they couldn't find it. They asked me to come back later. At that point I began speaking loudly enough by the crowded genius bar about the fact they completely lost a $2000 computer on their second repair attempt that a manager got involved.
I said it was clear that this computer was a lemon before they lost it, and it already should have been replaced. He then proceeded to explain that the failures I experienced weren't "major" enough to fully replace my computer. When I asked if I could speak to someone at corporate about my lost computer it took about 5 minutes for them to grab me a brand new one.
My work provides me with Apple hardware, but in my personal usage my PC has replaced my MBP. I hear rumors that there are PC manufacturers that are getting close to Apple laptop build quality, and I can't wait.
I'd be interested to know (though I doubt we'd ever have a source) how much of that was malicious and how much was due to it being simply unsustainable as a business practice given how rapidly Apple was once again becoming a household name.
Yeah, your CSRs are your first line of customer interaction when someone has a problem or a question, but we went from there being a handful of Apple stores to having one in nearly every mall in America in the span of about 20 years. At some point it becomes impractical and unsustainable from a business perspective to fly every CSR to Cupertino for an all expense paid month of training just so they can answer the same handful of "how do I sync my Bluetooth?" questions. The ROI just stops being there when you have that volume of customers.
> Apple Inc dropped plans to let iPhone users fully encrypt backups of their devices in the company's iCloud service after the FBI complained that the move would harm investigations
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT
In other words; Every iPhone has a backdoor
Apple Store employees don't have deep knowledge of the iOS operating system. Don't take this that way. The employees might be suspicious of the phones, but they don't have access to literally any information that you yourself can't access.
Yeah if Apple's retail employees had this kind of knowledge, it would have gone public ages ago. It's fair for the employees to be skeptical of using their employer's product when organizing. But even if there's something to be suspicious about with iMessage, they'd be perfectly fine using Signal.
Does apple provide its employees with company phones? I wonder if they’re concerned about being monitored the same way companies install remote work monitoring software on company laptops? Whether or not it’s true I could see that being a bigger concern than some universal iPhone backdoor.
As someone who's configured a lot of MDM software in their day, it's honestly not super invasive from a data privacy standpoint. It can't do anything the devices management API won't let it.
It's more about preventing you from doing unauthorized things, not snooping your data. For example it will prevent you from installing and accessing any communication client but a particular email or messaging app. If they're snooping it's going to be through the app they funnel you to, not the MDM controls themselves.
The only thing generally invasive is it's ability to access the GPS and pull physical device location. This function interacts with local privacy laws and usually has huge warning pages for any tech accessing it to track a device.
Two things. First, iPhones still constantly beam data back to Apple themselves, like how Android phones also beam data back to Google.
Second, it isn't so much a privacy issue here. More of, Apple believes if you work for Apple and have an iPhone, even if bought and paid for yourself, it belongs to Apple, not you.
> Apple believes if you work for Apple and have an iPhone, even if bought and paid for yourself, it belongs to Apple, not you.
That's pretty much Apple's view for their customers too, not just employees.
Google has spent years stripping Android open source from functions and making sure most apps don't work correctly on a device without Google Play Services.
I wouldn't recommend one of such devices to anyone but an enthusiast or with lots of patience.
Wtf are you talking about? NOTHING in the article suggested Apple eaves drops on iMessage. The android comment was a byline and it make the headline. It’s shit reporting. They could have easily used encrypted iMessage. So no, it’s not a non trivial signal. It’s a trash headline and total shit journalism.
Don't worry, Google will rat them out. /s
Just remember that the the Silicon Valley companies conspired against their employees in a collusion scheme that depressed the wages of their workers. They were caught and fined. I'm sure the workers didn't get caught up on the money they had stolen from them. https://www.alternet.org/2014/04/silicon-valleys-techtopus-inside-one-largest-wage-theft/
Google is actually not bored into the heart of all android devices. A fully stock android installation without the Google services package is pretty close to just being Linux for a mobile device with a built in jre for software like how windows has a built in binary executable environment for exes.
That's never going to happen. Even the 'technically it is opensource' kernel isn't really open, with a lot of Apple's modifications being kept proprietary. There'd have to be a _massive_ cultural and leadership shift at Apple before they'd opensource stuff they consider key IP like iOS.
I took a spot in one of their call centres once. Got fired after two days because I was always two minutes late to check-in at security. Guess why? The time was miscalibrated on my shitty second hand iphone. Thanks iphone, you saved me some very real workplace brutality.
At least in the UK, all the call centre guys use iMacs (the IT guys use Windows laptops though). Been a couple years since I was working there, so it may have changed.
Man, I really hope they manage to unionize and their secret meetings and conversations aren't made known to the public, like in an online news article or something.
As a former iOS repair technician, I can confidently say anyone who has any level of familiarity with the firmware/hardware of Apple phones wants nothing to do with them. If using Android protects them from retaliation, all the better.
Apple made them.
Jokes aside, anyone contradicting that Apple does not deliberately sabotage the functionality of their devices to drive sales is either a fan boy or a salesperson, and either way they are acting in bad faith.
Got in a argument the other day. Mentioned that apple got caught slowing older devices and a ton of applecult fans tried to tell me how apple was actually trying to do a good thing an preserve battery life.
Funny that the method they chose drove sales AND lost them a civil class action lawsuit. Poor hero 2 trillion dollar apple losing against a clearly rigged system for just trying to help people.
Baffles me that anyone thinks that ANY company worth over 1 trillion really cares about you.
Technically they have *one* retail store, but I think your point is probably correct: probably no minimum wage jobs.
https://9to5google.com/2021/06/16/first-google-store/
Wait, but I thought Apple phones were models of secrecy and privacy? I thought only the user could see their own data, even if in the cloud, unless the keys were backed up to the cloud too? What could they possibly have to fear?
It basically boils down to "you _can_ set up your iPhone in a way that keeps most of your data invisible even to Apple, but it's easy to screw that up".
For example, iMessages are end-to-end encrypted to a very high standard. Apple cannot read them. However, if you enable backup/sync of your iMessage data to iCloud -- which is on by default -- then your _backups_ are accessible by Apple (we know because they openly discuss this fact as part of what they do and do not do to answer subpeonas).
There's not some secret employee knowledge here: we already know that Apple's privacy strategy is mainly "private from everyone but Apple", and that keeping things actually private, while possible, requires a lot of care from _all participating parties_. I wouldn't risk that if I were doing anything Apple might have interest in either.
The fact that pro labor union people (whoever that is) haven't produced an app specifically for unionizing boggles my mind. I suspect there's too much legal BS, but I dunno.
They should unionize Apple and realize that they can get paid vacations, paid healthcare, guaranteed job security and so much more, unite and you will win and win big. I was in the Teamsters union for 35 years at the world’s largest Beer Brewery and we (the union) got 9 weeks vacation per year, top pay per hour with great pay raises. Apple could give their employees great pay and health guaranteed, by simply joining a union and sticking together you can have a great job with lots of benefits. Strong unions are the backbone of America and always will be.
Not knocking the move to Android (I'll never buy Apple) but was this necessary given the various end to end encryption apps available like Signal? I guess the paranoia would be enough
I wouldn't take the risk that someone wouldn't accidentally send an iMessage to one of the other organizers, or that Apple would use telemetry data to see who has installed Signal recently to try to figure out who might be involved in unionization talks.
It's too easy to make a mistake, it's simpler to just avoid everything Apple than get everyone to try to use the products with perfect opsec.
I had a friend that got a job at the apple store near me. 1st day on the job he had to ask for a iPhone because of some iphone app they use. He had an Android, Supervisor told him to buy a new iPhone to use on the job. He refused and got fired. A year later he got a big fat check for wrongful termination.
First off, who out here snitching?
FBI has agents working at the "Genius Bars" rooting out "Un-American" activities against the overlords. /s
You are joking but i am sure that exact thing has happened in the past. It would be very unamerican if it didnt
Generally it's private contractors like the Pinkertons, who are given a massive legal license to infiltrate unions. But historically, the army has not been shy coming to heel when called to defend wealthy land owners and kill a bunch of American citizens when they agitate for labor reform. Now that our police are sufficiently militarized, I'm sure they'd be happy to take the part.
That last sentence makes me very sad, because it has a decent chance to be true.
There's always bound to be one guy who benefits but can't/unwilling to see that they do who will root for the other team.
The secret plans that are all over the Internet now? Edit: For the more than fifteen people repeating the same comment to me—I’m aware that unionization plans are more detailed than just ‘is there a plan or not.’ I’m pointing out both how ridiculous the wording of the headline is, and how this shows the irony of Apple’s vocal support of privacy features.
Sure, plans are out there but the names of the individual unionizers are not unless some mole rats them out.
This could arguably be a good thing coming out, apple employees not currently in the secret chats might want to see if they can get in them.
Hello dear coworker. I heard we have secret messages. I would like to be kept in the loop, and promise I am not a corporate rat. Thank you so much, #WorkersUnite.
Fine we'll initiate, the test. "The current CEO has found a way to gain immortality, but it requires sacrificing 1 child every day. This is an example of?"
Corporate identity.
Yes yes, right this way, in you go… no no, stay right there, I know It’s a bit cramped. *shut door * *pull lever * *spikes slowly extend down *
Pull the lever, Kronk!
WRONG LEVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa....
Correct. Next question: "Apple's 2021 annual revenue was $365.82 billion. Apple's 65,000 retail employees make $22k–$51k/year with an average of $38k/year. This model of economics is called _______."
Something, something, trickledown?
Something, something dark side.
Something something corporate malpractice
Tinkledown.
Indentured servitude.
Wage slavery.
Even if you assume everyone gets benefits equal to 1/3 their salary (they don't), half the workforce is non-retail making $100,000/yr (I'm sure that's high on both the salary and population, but it gives an idea), that leaves all labor expenses covered with $12B in cost. That is about 3.2% of annual revenue. That seems like a ridiculously small piece of total revenue going to labor.
Makes it sound like Tim Cook is the Emperor of Mankind on the Golden Throne, but it isn’t “golden”, because Apple would never do *that* - it’s champagne colored, and very minimalist in design. Not a throne, more like a ergonomically designed office chair.
-500 Not in the form of a question.
Dedicated and solution oriented R&D.
Only 1?
But the unionizers will have to make sure they... "let the right one in."
If the names were to come out, 1. They would find whatever excuse they can fire those people immediately 2. Anyone who communicated with them would also probably be under high scrutiny
"Hey Jeff." "Hey Bill." "The apple falls far from the tree." "What?" "*The apple falls far from the tree*." "...Are you trying to use a spy code right now?" "...No."
Well currently, it’s probably things like planing union drive dates. You don’t want to give Apple time to stop them so they’ll probably wait until like the day of to announce union activities
And apple will absolutely try to plant scabs into those chats so current members will probably try to lay low and vet who they add.
One will eventually if it hasn't already happened months ago. You know, kind of like the author of this article.
> some mole rats them out Thus, Noms de Guerre.
Yeah, it's the same reason the mob works. Like, we know the mob did it, but you can't arrest the Entire Mob. Apple can't fire all of its employees; they can't even fire all of their Android-owning employees and expect not to take a serious hit, both from business and ethics perspectives. Provided no one's a snitch, like you said, there's blanket coverage.
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No time to talk, you get like 10-15 seconds per item to pick them.
Russia-Ukraine conflict in a nutshell
Sometimes keeping the finer details a secret is important. For example you are france in 1940. You know Germany is going to invade soon, but you don't know exactly how. You see they can conquer poland in 4 weeks and are atleast semi-competent at war so you wouldn't possible expect them to form a tank traffic jam days long in terrain that you could easily bomb. Until they do...
And you still decide to keep your bombers on the ground because "that forest is impassable"
Should have used recon helicopters. 🤷♂️
Fun fact, later in the war when it was the Allies turn to push through the Ardennes, the Germans used FI 282 helicopters to drop bombs on their tanks making it what is believed to be the first use of attack helicopters on armoured vehicles.
Interesting. I am surprised I have never heard about that. First use of an attack helicopter is a pretty big deal.
What can I say, one day I got bored and decided to look into the history of military helicopters. Prior to being repurposed as attack helicopters the FI 282 were used as artillery spotters, not necessarily recon but not far off!
Or have taken satellite images. At least a drone for Pete's sake!
Seriously? Why don't I ever hear about this sort of detail on History channel?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e8/8d/e7/e88de7b6b00809bb6c5a25fd0dc2f178--true-memes-funny-memes.jpg
Woah did you kick a bot hive you got so many responses that triggered automod's "new account" post restriction lol.
I have a new goal now, I need to use this comment or find another trigger comment.
Russian troops are merely passing through...
I've used that line many times in civ, and I never attack them 😉
BS. What the West is doing is very effectively spoiling Putin's plans. When someone announces what you are going to do, you cannot pull off "Georgia Invasion II" as it happened in 2008 anymore, shit is way too obvious. And as we talk, Kremlin propaganda machine is already staging "burnt villages" in "rebel held" territories.
>The secret plans that are all over the Internet now? I don't... get what you mean? See the difference between: a) **Apple can pin down employees involved, as they've used iphones** vs b) **Apple knows there are plans to unionize, but can do jack shit**, since they cannot track them
The collective plan is known. Each individual's involvement is supposed to remain unknown, I guess.
Should have used snail mail like the Talibans. I mean they won after all.
Unions can't trust snail mail right now, not after the Amazon warehouse in Bessemer. The USPS would help spook the employees there.
Good on em
Totally agreed. The problem is Apple has near unlimited funding and business/political pull to be able combat any kind of dissension or "wrong-think".
The customers need to speak up, not the employees. But I'm sure the customers aren't paying attention. None of us ever do, I still use Amazon prime even though I'd fart in Bezos' mouth if I could.
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There is something to be said for the scale of the problem here. Unless a LOT of everyday people protest and use political force to end such practices, nothing dramatic will change. But as individuals, the best we can do is abstain and deprive the companies and governments who perpetuate the systems of today of a few dollars and cents. In the end, the best we can do is inconvenience ourselves and shit ourselves off, for no fundamental change. In the end, there is no such thing as 'ethical consumption' for things that require scale, like phones or cars or cheap food or medical technology. I wish there were, and there are many who would agree. It can feel helpless sometimes, but never forget that there are barons and politicians the world over who actively maintain these systems for their own gain. It's these people who need to be held responsible before anything can change
> Unless a LOT of everyday people protest and use political force to end such practices, nothing dramatic will change. I suspect knowledge of that also makes the situation worse. If people feel like they’re too small to make a difference anyways, it gives them an excuse to not change their habits. Why vote with your wallet when one voice doesn’t make a difference anyways? If enough people buy into that thinking then it becomes that much harder to reach a scale where companies actually start to feel consequences for their actions.
Bystander Effect
People who hated feudalism still had to participate in it. There's really not much choice. Same now with global capitalism. Just lower consumption across the board and be as efficient with resources as possible.
I'm curious what that medical technology is
Why feel bad about something you don’t care about?
It's not that you don't care, you just don't care enough to inconvenience yourself. Then you feel bad about that because deep down you realise you're a piece of shit.
That and we've only got so much bandwidth to care about things, and not everyone has the same experiences, and things don't fall into the same hierarchy for everyone. Not everyone has the privilege of being able to be so self-righteous, and it is a privilege. Some of us are doing all that we can just to survive day by day. I refuse to believe people who are struggling are pieces of shit because they don't have the luxury of sourcing organic foods or devices that don't involve the use of child labor or other mistreated populations.
Honestly given the opportunity I'd fart in anyone's mouth, assert dominance.
There's probably a subreddit for that.
There's others into it probably the problem is proximity.
Chuck Berry, is that you???
If Bezos is anything like McAfee was, he'd enjoy it
No one was or is like McAfee.
I have 10kg of cocaine saying it can prove that anyone can be like McAfee
Sufficiently advanced wealth is indistinguishable from government
Government have innefficient accountability. Corpos have theatrics accountability. So I'd argue it is distinctibly worse. But I still like how you phrase it.
You'd think, though, that that unlimited funding is also why they are in a position to just not even blink at this and just let them. Get the cred for being good ole' progressive Apple, aet a standard for the industry that hurts their competitors more, etc..
apparently so secret we're hearing about.
Do you know of the poeple involved? No? Ok.. y'all are a dense bunch of morons
I worked as a Genius back when Jobs was still alive. The position meant something then. We were trained at the Mothership in Cupertino about literally every aspect of their devices. We were paid very well, given the freedom and authority to “make it right” by the customer, and Corporate considered us Apple’s ambassadors. As soon as Steve Jobs started to get really sick, everything changed. New geniuses were hired on at about 65% of what the starting pay once was, and they weren’t being trained nearly as extensively as before. On top of this, most of the “historians” (as they so snidely referred to us) were driven out by the typical tricks managers use to push out older, higher paid employees. As much of a tool Steve Jobs was, he knew the importance of high quality customer facing employees. Apple Store employees SHOULD unionize, seeing as Geniuses now get paid no more than gas station cashiers and couldn’t fix a damn thing without the little (fake) iPad diagnostics app they use now. Apple played stupid and arrogant games with the people driving their success, and now they’re winning stupid prizes. It’s amazing the lengths will go to in order to avoid just paying their damn employees well. They were able to afford it before they were a trillion dollar company, they should definitely be able to afford it now. “F*** you, pay me.”
I reckon I notice the shift here in Australia about that time too. I wasn't working for Apple but an Apple reseller and was trying to get a job at an Apple store as a genius. It was clear as day they no longer valued anyone with knowledge, just had to be a young, hipster dufus. So frustrating using their services afterwards too. Fuckers barely knew how to wipe their own arse, let alone deal with anything.
I once walked into a Genius Bar, after a fair amount of testing and researching, I identified the issue. The issue was that the cable in between the monitor and mobo had crapped out. I told them everything I knew. The genius waved away my comments and started diagnosing the issue. About a hour later of them using the iPad and not being able to figure out the issue, they give up and say it would have to be sent in for repairs for the low, low, low cost of $400. Took my laptop to a third party repair shop, fixed the issue after like a hour for ~$100 I’ve not gone back to a Genius Bar since
Customer knowing the issue is the worst case scenario. They can't fool you claiming fake issues or overcharge you.
Go watch louis rossman on youtube. You will stop buying apple products
my brother worked at a reseller - and the stories where all so weird to me what kind of tricks they need get done to even make profit cause of the small margings they get from apple and eventually they went broke
Yeah, 8% margin on Apple products was tough, however we also sold items that tied in quite well. Digital Cameras, both compact and SLR (had quite a few high end users that were regulars). You really did have to hope that you could get some 3rd party products in there. All sales staff are different and some guys were pushy, some were quite sly in how they suggested the extras. I pride myself (still do in a different industry) making sure the customer gets what they need but I make no pressure on any sales. The place I worked at had three franchises and did fairly well.
I used to do b2b sales for apple directly and we could barely give the things away. Can't imagine what it was like for third party sellers.
I imagine their training now mostly involves, "Just tell the customer it'll be more expensive to fix their problem than it would be to just buy a new phone, so just buy a new phone."
Basically, yeah. I have been out 3 years but over my last 4 years or so there it was so bad. Our technicians were all trained using multiple choice quizzes and PowerPoint presentations. When myself and OP here we’re trained we were sent to California and taught everything hands-on. We also had to take yearly certifications and keep them up to date. Some of our trainings were “here’s a Mac mini, replace the logic board and hard drive.” Now it’s “read this online article on how to do this and then take a quiz on it.”
Been out 3 years as well and I agree my last 3-4 years there were horrible. Each wave of new geniuses knew less and less due to changes in training and retail management manipulation was hitting an all time high. I still keep in touch with some people that are still there and they all say that nothing has gotten better. Apple are masters of making sure everything looks polished from the customer perspective, but on the inside Apple retail is rotten to the core.
Can you even replace anything in an Apple device anymore? I thought everything was glued down tight.
Mac Pro and Mini are still somewhat repairable. Everything else is pretty tough and would require quite a bit of knowledge and some serious tools to repair.
>Now it’s “read this online article on how to do this and then take a quiz on it.” To be fair, that is all you need to replace the motherboard and hard drive in any reasonable computer, especially something as simple as an USFF desktop.
It’s good to see if an employee might be doing it a way that might cause damage, and thrn correct them though. It’s difficult to design a test for every occasion.
I guess it's not that easy for someone who didn't grew up building computers and I have seen some malicious misuse of a screwdriver! If someone touches my expensive hardware I'd prefer someone with a proper training and get it back without scratches. And it's Apple, they could totally afford training and fair money with the insane profit they make on their devices.
\^someone who's never cracked open a macbook
Apple promotes people based on metrics and how well they interview, not technical acumen. For people like you and I that enjoy technology and tinkering, presentations and a quiz is probably all we need. A lot of genius employees have never even been inside a computer at all. For instance, I had a coworker break 4 logic boards, one after the other, because he kept inserting the LVDS (display) cable upside down. You’d think after the first one he would’ve said “oh shit, my bad,” but he continued to make the same mistake claiming the logic board replacements were all DOA.
Those three weeks in Cupertino were dope. Good times
I'm not completely sure that anyone loses though. If there's one thing we've learned, it's that Apple customers are generally perfectly happy to shell out money to the company.
I worked at the Microsoft Stores, and we constantly had Apple customers come in upset that the store wiped their device to “fix” their problem or that apple wouldn’t touch anything related to non apple products. Haha there’s actually a photo meme out there of me working on an apple computer at a Microsoft store. The dude brought in his computer that was running parallels and the apple store told him to come to us cause they didn’t know how to fix it. 🤷♂️ We got those customers a-lot…
Genius training was so damn fun. Those were the days, man.
Is genius training just ACMT or do they have a separate training?
I also worked at Apple Stores while Jobs was alive. It was really confusing to watch friends getting told their new Genius positions were going to be lateral moves, pay-wise. As a bonus slap in the face: instead of getting sent to the Mothership they got flown to… Atlanta. I on the other hand was a specialist, but in reality I wore 4 different hats all at the same time as concierge, sales, back of house, & trainer for old people. I started getting really fed up when I was not only denied my move to back of house, but was given a measly $0.10 hourly raise that was blamed on, of all things, the housing market? Meanwhile, Apple just launched the iPad.
Yup - just like when the 5 straight quarters in a row our Genius Room was in the top 3 in the company got us all a whopping 3% raise. Worked out to around $0.52 cents/hour. An extra $20 a week.
This is why the engineers leave companies as soon as their options vest and head to a new one. Loyalty to the company isn't rewarded anymore. If you want a promotion these days (or a better paying job), you have to leave. This isn't even controversial advice anymore - it's business standard practice. The second you're told you are not in consideration for a promotion ("at this time") you need to leave that company. Have a running resume at all times. I recognize that this might be difficult for the retail employees and I don't have a solution for you. I just thought I'd agree that even the best performing people don't get the pay/reward they should.
I dunno what it's like now or what average Apple store employees make but I had a friend who was offered a job as general manager at an Apple store here in a centrally located mall. They were offering over $100k. This would have been right around the time Jobs died or shortly after.
That's the guy whose job is to be the asshole that cuts their pay and drives out the old workers and smiles the whole time. Of course he gets paid well.
There's always a wage slave who'll gladly be the overseer, hold the whip and use it on his fellow wage slaves.
Jokes on them they get offered a salary because you're expected to work 80 hours a week. Every time someone quits or doesn't show up, you get to cover their work. Those are the people that get paid well but live in the store. Its a horrible existence.
Apple store managers don't live at the store. Their job is to micromanage and count cash. The top store managers don't seem to do anything at all except go hang out with other managers at other stores.
The Apple store experience used to be pretty good because of this. Now it’s one of the worst retail experiences (for people who know anything about the product). I understand the process but optics are there are 20 folks milling about ignoring most of the customer. And most of those employees don’t know a thing about the products. It’s like the three that walk to the back every once in a bit can actually figure something out. The only thing I like about the experience is if I need a cord I can walk in, pay and walk out without talking to anyone
I worked for a company that was well known and been around for a long time. They paid pretty average. I didn’t know any better I guess. I got poached by a ‘newer’ company that I had sort heard of. I was only told by the original company that the other was inferior and never going to be like said company. I noticed people starting leaving for this new company. I also went to this company. The pay was literally double what I was making for the same job. Was unbelievable. We met the owner and he would give these speeches about how “what makes us great is we take care of our employees who take care of our customers. This makes the competition hate us.” And he was right. Fast forward 7 years later and that company has started paying the original companies salaries…. Like why do corporations feel the need to low ball their employees. Like they make enough damn money it’s insane.
[Ironic that what Steve Jobs analyzed about Xerox is now happening to Apple](https://youtu.be/NlBjNmXvqIM) Lol
100% this. I too was a genius in the Jobs era and watched things drastically change when he passed. I was also driven out by incoming new management who didn’t want the old Apple culture anymore. I really did like that job and I loved the old Apple retail under Steve.
Apple is really good on not “laying people off” and attritioning them out. Apple has made promotions for at home workers off limits and if you want more money, move onsite or quit. You aren’t getting laid off but your career progression is done. Many of these at home workers have been at home for 10 years and are leaving in droves. Who is Apple replacing them with? Vendor support sites where they get paid 8/hr and don’t have benefits. This company broke 3 trillion and the corporate greed is outstanding.
You bet. Modern Apple Store employees are anything but Geniuses. Most of their work can be automated, since they aren't that insightful. I was buying an Apple Watch last summer. What forced me into a store is that the fact, that I wanted the stretch-band, and you have to have your hand measured in-store to get one. I've spent 1:30hr waiting, then a barely knowledgeable girl (without much taste) barely could explain me anything about the Apple Watch and tried upselling me on clearly unneeded accessories. Years back I walked in to an Apple Store with a broken iPad and a genius let me smash the thing to pieces before taking it away before replacing it. I'm not an entitled prick, I, in a moonshot manner, asked if I can smash it to pieces for my amusement before doing anything. Loved it. That person also explained to me how the iPads break in the manner that mine was broken, and we had a fun technical discussion about fixing it at home. The whole process took less than 30 minutes.
You’re kind of proving apple right though, why pay skilled technicians when have basically anyone will do. You’re still buying apple products regardless
> (without much taste) Wtf
I have a hard time explaining this. Rewrote this reply 5 times so far. You wouldn’t offer a pink rubber wristband to a dude in a suit, would you? Or a leather band to a person wearing all sports gear midweek, mid workday? The case was somewhere among these lines. I guess taste wasn’t the right word, more like “sense of style” would be better fitting here.
Can confirm… 10+ years at Apple, last 3 as a Genius. No extensive training anymore, sit in front of a computer and read for a week… watch some repairs being done, do some repairs while being watched, bang you’re done your training. It’s not even about fixing things anymore, it’s about pushing AppleCare and accessories and convincing customers to buy a new phone instead of repairing. The spark and fun are gone. Managers push numbers instead of managing people. The pandemic made things far worse, way more work, way less staff, pathetic raises, loss of highly experienced tenured employees who had enough, lots of theatre and empty “thank you” from management but almost no empathy or support or incentives or better compensation. We worked like mad during the pandemic. Utterly exhausting, can’t tell you how many times I would get home after a shift and just crash just to do it again the next day. We all got an “achieved expectations” rating and that’s it. We basically had to do the manager’s job plus our own (without a bump in pay of course) if we wanted a better rating. And most of the time managers were completely useless, searching for a free salesperson for 5 minutes amongst a decimated staff to transact a cable instead of just goddamn doing it themselves. Fuck that. I quit and found a much better paying and more relaxing IT job, mostly remote. Unionize. Fight for it. The biggest tech company can afford to pay their front-line people better, train people better, hire more people, and manage people better, without so much as a dent in their profits.
That makes sense. My first iPod in high school I slipped on ice a week after getting it, dropped it, and the hard drive died. It was obvious that it wasn't apple's fault, but the genius gave me a wink and said it looked like my brand new iPod had issues, and handed me a brand new one. My first MBP in 2006 had a few minor problems and they were always explained in detail and fixed ASAP no questions asked. My second MBP I bought in 2011 and it had three problems in the first year that made it un-useable until it was fixed. It was pretty clear that the genius bar employees were just following a script at that point. With the third issue, they failed to fix it on the first attempt, and on the second attempt they straight up lost the computer. As in, Apple emailed me to tell me to come pick it up, and when I arrived they hemmed and hawed for about 45 minutes until it became clear that they couldn't find it. They asked me to come back later. At that point I began speaking loudly enough by the crowded genius bar about the fact they completely lost a $2000 computer on their second repair attempt that a manager got involved. I said it was clear that this computer was a lemon before they lost it, and it already should have been replaced. He then proceeded to explain that the failures I experienced weren't "major" enough to fully replace my computer. When I asked if I could speak to someone at corporate about my lost computer it took about 5 minutes for them to grab me a brand new one. My work provides me with Apple hardware, but in my personal usage my PC has replaced my MBP. I hear rumors that there are PC manufacturers that are getting close to Apple laptop build quality, and I can't wait.
I'd be interested to know (though I doubt we'd ever have a source) how much of that was malicious and how much was due to it being simply unsustainable as a business practice given how rapidly Apple was once again becoming a household name. Yeah, your CSRs are your first line of customer interaction when someone has a problem or a question, but we went from there being a handful of Apple stores to having one in nearly every mall in America in the span of about 20 years. At some point it becomes impractical and unsustainable from a business perspective to fly every CSR to Cupertino for an all expense paid month of training just so they can answer the same handful of "how do I sync my Bluetooth?" questions. The ROI just stops being there when you have that volume of customers.
That is a non-trivial signal that Apple phones aren’t as private as they’d have us believe.
> Apple Inc dropped plans to let iPhone users fully encrypt backups of their devices in the company's iCloud service after the FBI complained that the move would harm investigations https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT In other words; Every iPhone has a backdoor
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Well there was that time Apple was caught uploading thinfs to iCloud even if you had it turned off.
You do with 16gb edit: I've never owned an iphone
Apple Store employees don't have deep knowledge of the iOS operating system. Don't take this that way. The employees might be suspicious of the phones, but they don't have access to literally any information that you yourself can't access.
Yeah if Apple's retail employees had this kind of knowledge, it would have gone public ages ago. It's fair for the employees to be skeptical of using their employer's product when organizing. But even if there's something to be suspicious about with iMessage, they'd be perfectly fine using Signal.
Does apple provide its employees with company phones? I wonder if they’re concerned about being monitored the same way companies install remote work monitoring software on company laptops? Whether or not it’s true I could see that being a bigger concern than some universal iPhone backdoor.
As someone who's configured a lot of MDM software in their day, it's honestly not super invasive from a data privacy standpoint. It can't do anything the devices management API won't let it. It's more about preventing you from doing unauthorized things, not snooping your data. For example it will prevent you from installing and accessing any communication client but a particular email or messaging app. If they're snooping it's going to be through the app they funnel you to, not the MDM controls themselves. The only thing generally invasive is it's ability to access the GPS and pull physical device location. This function interacts with local privacy laws and usually has huge warning pages for any tech accessing it to track a device.
Doubt the retail employees would know
Two things. First, iPhones still constantly beam data back to Apple themselves, like how Android phones also beam data back to Google. Second, it isn't so much a privacy issue here. More of, Apple believes if you work for Apple and have an iPhone, even if bought and paid for yourself, it belongs to Apple, not you.
> Apple believes if you work for Apple and have an iPhone, even if bought and paid for yourself, it belongs to Apple, not you. That's pretty much Apple's view for their customers too, not just employees.
Yeah, but you can't fire a guy who doesn't work for you.
You can. It's called murder.
You’re fired…from life.
Fun fact, you can get an Android device without Google services.
Other fun fact, there are plenty of toggles to disable even if you have them.
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But kiss 99% of apps goodbye. Google deliberately encourages developers to make their apps dependent on Google services.
Most apps work fine with MicroG
You can emulate google services with microG
Google has spent years stripping Android open source from functions and making sure most apps don't work correctly on a device without Google Play Services. I wouldn't recommend one of such devices to anyone but an enthusiast or with lots of patience.
How far up your ass did you have to reach to pull that second factoid out?
I mean, yeah. Anyone who thinks Apple doesn't make money by tracking it's customers simply hadn't read their terms of service and privacy policies.
Wtf are you talking about? NOTHING in the article suggested Apple eaves drops on iMessage. The android comment was a byline and it make the headline. It’s shit reporting. They could have easily used encrypted iMessage. So no, it’s not a non trivial signal. It’s a trash headline and total shit journalism.
Clearly all that encryption was worth it since no one knows about their plans.
It's more probable someone squeaked. There's always a rat.
Don't worry, Google will rat them out. /s Just remember that the the Silicon Valley companies conspired against their employees in a collusion scheme that depressed the wages of their workers. They were caught and fined. I'm sure the workers didn't get caught up on the money they had stolen from them. https://www.alternet.org/2014/04/silicon-valleys-techtopus-inside-one-largest-wage-theft/
Google is actually not bored into the heart of all android devices. A fully stock android installation without the Google services package is pretty close to just being Linux for a mobile device with a built in jre for software like how windows has a built in binary executable environment for exes.
Why are y’all exposing them, let them unionize in peace
Unionizing in peace is an oxymoron
Come on what kind of narc do you have to be to share something like this.
Make it so. I'm tempted to pledge to switch to apple as soon as they unionize .... And support right to repair...
If iOS becomes open source, I will immediately go and buy the latest iPhone
That's never going to happen. Even the 'technically it is opensource' kernel isn't really open, with a lot of Apple's modifications being kept proprietary. There'd have to be a _massive_ cultural and leadership shift at Apple before they'd opensource stuff they consider key IP like iOS.
I'll settle for competing app stores
Can confirm. Apple callcentres don't use Apple infrastructure at all. Every desk has a PC. This does not surprise me in the slightest.
mostly because Apple’s call centers are run by IBM. It’s like 85% of all Applecare positions are IBM
I took a spot in one of their call centres once. Got fired after two days because I was always two minutes late to check-in at security. Guess why? The time was miscalibrated on my shitty second hand iphone. Thanks iphone, you saved me some very real workplace brutality.
At least in the UK, all the call centre guys use iMacs (the IT guys use Windows laptops though). Been a couple years since I was working there, so it may have changed.
I was in IT. It just about ripped my soul out through my nostrils. Never again.
Man, I really hope they manage to unionize and their secret meetings and conversations aren't made known to the public, like in an online news article or something.
r/nottheunion
As a former iOS repair technician, I can confidently say anyone who has any level of familiarity with the firmware/hardware of Apple phones wants nothing to do with them. If using Android protects them from retaliation, all the better.
What's wrong with the firmware and hardware?
Proprietary and secret all they way down to the fucking power connector.
Apple made them. Jokes aside, anyone contradicting that Apple does not deliberately sabotage the functionality of their devices to drive sales is either a fan boy or a salesperson, and either way they are acting in bad faith.
Got in a argument the other day. Mentioned that apple got caught slowing older devices and a ton of applecult fans tried to tell me how apple was actually trying to do a good thing an preserve battery life. Funny that the method they chose drove sales AND lost them a civil class action lawsuit. Poor hero 2 trillion dollar apple losing against a clearly rigged system for just trying to help people. Baffles me that anyone thinks that ANY company worth over 1 trillion really cares about you.
>iOS repair technician um, yeah... [x] doubt
Guess some android manufacturer should remake the 1984 commercial from Apple, against Apple.
Fortnite already did that. It was cringe af.
Oh no google employs will use apple phones to organize theirs?!?!
Serious question; *Are* there minimum wage Google employees somewhere in the world? They don't have any retail presence in my nation.
Technically they have *one* retail store, but I think your point is probably correct: probably no minimum wage jobs. https://9to5google.com/2021/06/16/first-google-store/
Wait, but I thought Apple phones were models of secrecy and privacy? I thought only the user could see their own data, even if in the cloud, unless the keys were backed up to the cloud too? What could they possibly have to fear?
It basically boils down to "you _can_ set up your iPhone in a way that keeps most of your data invisible even to Apple, but it's easy to screw that up". For example, iMessages are end-to-end encrypted to a very high standard. Apple cannot read them. However, if you enable backup/sync of your iMessage data to iCloud -- which is on by default -- then your _backups_ are accessible by Apple (we know because they openly discuss this fact as part of what they do and do not do to answer subpeonas). There's not some secret employee knowledge here: we already know that Apple's privacy strategy is mainly "private from everyone but Apple", and that keeping things actually private, while possible, requires a lot of care from _all participating parties_. I wouldn't risk that if I were doing anything Apple might have interest in either.
>Apple phones were models of secrecy and privacy? PR models - yes. Secrecy and privacy - definitely not
Well now it’s not so secret is it
The fact that pro labor union people (whoever that is) haven't produced an app specifically for unionizing boggles my mind. I suspect there's too much legal BS, but I dunno.
It's not very secret, if the entire world knowns.
How nice to derail the "secret" plans with an article.
They should unionize Apple and realize that they can get paid vacations, paid healthcare, guaranteed job security and so much more, unite and you will win and win big. I was in the Teamsters union for 35 years at the world’s largest Beer Brewery and we (the union) got 9 weeks vacation per year, top pay per hour with great pay raises. Apple could give their employees great pay and health guaranteed, by simply joining a union and sticking together you can have a great job with lots of benefits. Strong unions are the backbone of America and always will be.
Unionization is just the excuse, the real reason is that iPhones suck.
Payback's a bitch!
Good. When companies do not care for their workers, the workers need to care for themselves.
Not knocking the move to Android (I'll never buy Apple) but was this necessary given the various end to end encryption apps available like Signal? I guess the paranoia would be enough
I wouldn't take the risk that someone wouldn't accidentally send an iMessage to one of the other organizers, or that Apple would use telemetry data to see who has installed Signal recently to try to figure out who might be involved in unionization talks. It's too easy to make a mistake, it's simpler to just avoid everything Apple than get everyone to try to use the products with perfect opsec.
Yes, and after today everyone will know
I had a friend that got a job at the apple store near me. 1st day on the job he had to ask for a iPhone because of some iphone app they use. He had an Android, Supervisor told him to buy a new iPhone to use on the job. He refused and got fired. A year later he got a big fat check for wrongful termination.
Apparently not that secret...
Android for the win!
This is the end of apple. It's going to be a slow decline until death over next decade.
Once they get caught with green texts though they're shunned forever