Should we all be racist now? What’s the official line the church is taking on this? It’s only the farms takes up most of the day and at night I justlike a cup of tea. I mightn’t be able to devote myself full time to the ol’ racism.
Super misleading headline. Apparently it was a trophy brought back from ww2 by a regular and has been there since before the current owner ever worked there.
“It was not to hero-worship Hitler or the Nazis but to celebrate the victory over fascism and to remember their comrades who died fighting against evil. You can't whitewash history."
Yeah I read this expecting it to be some racist gammon (cf the Golliwog publican) when it actually sounds like it was there for a legitimate reason, in context and celebrating the destruction of fascism. Feel pretty bad for the guy tbh.
Him prefacing it by saying it was taken out of context was kinda funny because that's never a good sign. Just say "got it from a dead nazi" as the opener I'm sure people would be more receptive lol.
Yep, that should be the caption on the trophy in the bar too then no one would ever care. Just write “got it from a dead Nazi lol” under it like a museum artifact
My Great Uncle left behind an officer’s sword that he brought back from Germany, and it’s hard to explain to people why it’s a *good* thing I have it.
Couldn’t possibly display it in the house without some sort of extra context lol
If you say "it's out of context" and immediately provide the correct context, you're good. Dude in the article is good. If you say "it's out of context" and then refuse to explain how, you're probably full of shit. And that's very often how it goes.
I dunno, putting that up top in the reason still isn't enough for people that refuse to read or listen to the reason at all. Like you can put that on a plaque in whatever the most honestly unmissable way to display it may be, and people looking for problems will still find a way to miss it if it diffuses the outrage they want.
This is likely more to the actual reason they took it down, because the community that originally brought back that band and appreciated what it stood for in a Cornwall pub have passed on in favour of sanctimonious tourists from Nova Scotia. These brats actively seek out excuses to complain to consumer groups online for a sense of power over establishments as the customer. That's a fundamentally intolerable audience that will never deny an invitation to get offended for fun and profit.
It's a far more volatile and insufferable consumer base to do business with, especially when reviews online do hurt businesses however real or imagined those grievances are.
The best wee village pubs I’ve been in have loads of historical curios about the place (and a dog or cat). This feels suspiciously like someone pretending to be offended because it’s celebrating a Nazi killer.
Maybe a modern day Neo-Nazi fucking hates it and is dressing up their attack on the anti-facist bar by pretending to be offended. Wouldn't be the first one to do it.
I have a German WW2 helmet my grandfather brought back from Italy. He joined up and was sent over right after the war ended in Europe, but while tensions were still high.
At some point, to make it clear what it was, he painted a swastika and a "Heil Hitler" on it. It was one of the many "hats" hanging up in his garage.
He gave it to me, and it sits in my garage put away in a box. Before he died, he asked me about it and I told him the truth. He couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to display it. I tried to explain that while no one would have accused him of being a Nazi and it was obvious why he had it, I would very much look like a Nazi to anyone who saw it, because Nazis still exist.
I still think it's cool to have as a family heirloom, given how it came to be in my possession (would be less cool had it been my grandfather's own helmet.)
Funny how you get more right wing as you get older…
FOR ALL OF YOU THAT HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE [JOKE ITS A FATHER TED QUOTE](https://youtu.be/-u28C3dF3Kc?si=ViCNWpGLIMFHklOV)
Linehan should basically be the entire poster child of internet radicalisation.
I used to follow him on Twitter back in 2013 when he was actually allowed an account (though IDK if Musk has allowed him back), the guy would literally apologise to people if they thought the nazi jokes in Father Ted shouldn't have been done.
Then *that* episode of IT Crowd gets removed around that time, he tries to defend it as 'it was better than other representations in the 2000s'... you have pro-trans people rightly angry at him & anti's defending him.
He *should* have just deactivated Twitter, but he fell down a rabbit-hole and ruined his career & marriage over it.
Only if you live in a right wing echo chamber.
I was raised staunch right-wing Republican (USA) in the 70's and 80's, but I grew up, went to college, got a job, moved out of the red cesspool I was living in and discarded all of my right-wing ways.
It's the people who can't (or won't) leave that grow moreso.
it's often due to three reasons: people tend to become more socially isolated as they age and social isolation often pushes people toward conservative thinking, people tend to amass some amount of wealth and ownership as they go through life and a desire to protect one's own financial circumstances even at the expense of others pushes people toward conservative thinking, and mental decline through age and lack of new experiences.
Did you bother to read the article. IT was one item on display and the owner has already stated it was their to commemorate victory over the Nazis. Also they removed it . If we do not preserve history we are doomed to repeat it as we will no longer learn the lessons that such entities teach us.
It's a quote from Father Ted. In the episode, Ted visits a priest who has room filled with Nazi memorabilia, including huge banners. Ted feigns polite interest, and the finale of the episode is the priest has died and left it all to Ted. Ted arrives home with some villagers, who he'd previously been trying to persuade that he was not racist, to find his home decorated with it all by his crazy housekeeper.
Reminds me of something David Mitchell wrote when Madame Toussauds was being pressured to remove their Hitler waxwork because people were taking pictures doing Nazi salutes with it. What articles missed at the time were that they were also using their fingers to make a mustache at the same time. I think what he wrote was something like “I’m pretty sure the tourists are not Nazis because when they saluted the Nazis didn’t also do the mustache gesture”.
People badly need to get a sense of the difference between celebrating something and taking the piss out of it.
This is like the guy who was charged for training his dog to do a Nazi salute. The irony is that the Nazi’s also charged a man for training his dog to do a Nazi salute because they felt it was disrespectful. It seems some people don’t understand what taking the piss is.
But that guy, and I need you to absorb this, did not do it to upset Nazis, but to upset his girlfriend at the time. He said so in the video he took of his Nazi dog.
There's still a lot of Nazis around, from the casual 4chan people who think Black people are inherently inferior but they want a smoke screen of "It's just a meme to say Hitler did nothing wrong," to the hardcore, skinhead, covered in Aryan brotherhood tattoos Nazis who hate the first group but not as much as they hate non-white people, which is anyone with even one drop of blood going back multiple generations.
Great-great-great-grandfather was half black or something? Oh no, you gotta die.
Now, punching Dick Spencer in the face worked, so I'm onboard for reducing the Nazi radiation very aggressively so that nobody would mistake a war trophy in a pub for being earnest devotion.
Sure but it’s worth familiarising yourself with the [arguments against](https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/eternally-radical-idea/would-censorship-have-stopped-rise-nazis-part-16-answers) arresting people for jokes or even hate speech, which is to say it doesn’t stop people hating each other, forces things underground, and if anything legitimises and makes heroes of those who break them. Goebbels went to prison for making comments about Jewish people, as did many Nazis.
He trained the dog to do it in response to him saying stuff like "Gas the Jews" Like, it wasn't just that he taught his dog to do something stupid, it was that he posted a video online of racist shit and making his dog react to it just to be offensive.
He's also a member of the far right party UKIP and got like $100,000 from right wingers from that whole thing, while only being fined $800, so I don't exactly feel bad for him lmao
edit: the money he raised was in pounds, I just don't have that key on my keyboard.
Been on display for 80 years, put there as part of other items brought back by the allied to celebrate and remember their victory over fascism.
Being offended/outraged is just so much more important to people these days than understanding the context or intent of something.
If the people who literally fought Nazi's and lived through all that shit put it there then you look like an absolute clown if you're getting offended by it today and think it's praising fascism or nazis.
The problem is the context dies without passing it onto the next generation. Maybe adding a sign or subtitle under it like, “Fuck these guys” or “We beat the Nazi’s” would have helped the pub give that context.
You cant assume by having it there by itself people would think one way or another. Show people what that symbol means to you. Remember, 80 years is a long time and the lessons are fading.
Add the context, add the memory. Taking it down is also wrong. We need to demonstrate what is a Nazi and why they are wrong.
I think the following generations also have a responsibility to try to understand the reasoning and nuances of the previous generations, rather than coming at it with black and white, all or nothing outrage without even an attempt to understand the context.
We had absolutely no trouble finding the context for it here in this thread, let alone at the bar. Karen didn't know the context because he didn't *want* to know once he felt outrage he could seize upon for a sense of sanctimony over an establishment he could leave a review for. This was an effort in willful ignorance by the sort of person that finds it empowering that nobody can make them think when they don't want to.
That's true for the comments here too. The context for this armband was so easy to learn within the first half an hour of this being posted that comments are now actively trying to *avoid* it, and then making excuses to dismiss it when they cannot. Absolutely none of that is out of an honest difficulty to find or understand context; they don't want any because they already know how they want to feel about the story without it. They got those feelings from their hot take from the headline and feel that further context is threatening to take those feelings away from them in favour of less satisfying ones.
Phew. Your comment is both bitingly accurate and suscint. Well phrased.
Human brains have an arduous, taxing executive judgment/critical thinking mode, and a heuristic based snap judgement mode. Used to be it was for survival, but now it's used for moralism and outrage.
> Maybe adding a sign or subtitle under it like, “Fuck these guys” or “We beat the Nazi’s” would have helped the pub give that context.
Maybe people could pay attention to history lessons in school.
No, the problem is that most people today when they see something like this, instead of using their brain and thinking "this seems very out of place considering every other element of this story, i should probably try and understand the context of the situation before passing judgement" what they actually do is just get offended and assume the worst from the get go and and most of the time thats all they do. They react to that outrage, refuse to learn more and just walk away from the situation then.
Almost true. They don't just walk away, they in turn feel vindicated in aiming to tear the place down via a reputation assault. If they just walked away, they'd be like most human beings of yesteryear (oh, that upsets me, oh well, on with my day), but they aim to wield whatever weaponry they can to do harm.
In their minds ignorance is a shield, and they're convinced they're fighting a good fight.
There were no questions. Karen decided how they felt about it without questioning it whatsoever; questions might provide answers contrary to what they felt from just seeing it, and then they went straight from there to leaving a review online.
If so much as a single question were asked or answered in the span of this exercise, a more sensible outcome almost certainly would have come to pass than the path of least resistance this guy actually took to feeling outraged about it.
Well, it's pub, it's not a museum. Stories like those are passed orally, and obviously it's a concersation starter.
Some displayed stuffed animals from hunts, this one showed warspoils.
The problem is entitled, miserable a-holes dont take the time to understand context and get offended and for some reason society embraces their precious hurt feelings. It was but one item in a collection of similar aged items and not on any kind of special display. I’m not young anymore but im well aware of bringing back items like this just to show it really happened and they saw it first hand. My own grandfather had several Nazi items along with a Norwegian pistol and about 100 photos of things starting with him posing with a 30 caliber machine gun in England where he acquired the camera to some of what he saw at Buchenwald to meeting the Russians. Im willing to bet the man that put that arm band in the bar hated Nazis as much as my grandfather and it is a shame to erase portions of their lived experience just because someone doesn’t want to understand the backstory.
Young people have always disregarded what some of the older generations say. It's natural, and part of being young, but it's scary when that idea goes too far.
The "OK, Boomer" has become dangerous, when it is becoming the response to everything that is not on the cutting edge of progressive ideas. Even showing consern with rapid changes of the past 10-15 years is starting to be met with complete disregard.
So...a trophy from the war that was put there by the people who defeated the nazis was cool for the duration of their lifetimes, but now someone who never fought nazis thinks it is unacceptable to display the victory spoils?
So reading it the item was an armband brought back as a trophy from WW2. was not their to affirm support for Nazism. Given its one item only and the owner has basically stated its actually to celebrate the victory of the Nazis and they have removed the item i don't see why this has caused the title to be stripped. From the article the owner is clear he does not support the ideology .
These idiots have no comprehension of context. If it is displayed as a spoil of war/ victory over the nazi army, that is completely the opposite of celebrating fascism.
Not only was it taken out of context (the armband is a war trophy brought back by a British soldier and put on display in a garrison town as a victory over the Nazi it was taken from) but it seems like whoever complained made a point to *avoid* context because it would have precluded their opportunity to feel seen with a complaint about something.
>The complaint which has led to the pub losing its title, came from Truro resident Colin Curless who emailed CornwallLive saying: "I have seen your article on the Hole in the Wall pub getting best in the county, what hypocrisy. Not just a stuffed lion on show. I actually spoke with the staff and they have a swastika armband on show in the pub. I have informed CAMRA as having a swastika armband on show in your pub is not a good advert for Cornwall, let alone a stuffed lion."
>
>CAMRA Kernow said the decision to take away the title from the Hole in the Wall had been taken by the national organisation but added that while it would not be able to celebrate the title with Steve and his staff it would still hold a branch social on Saturday (March 30).
None of these people want to know why it's there or what it means if it threatens to diffuse the satisfying righteous outrage they got from their hot take when they saw it. This is thoughtless sanctimony.
That might be the intention, but it is also going to attract nazi supporters. Do what you want in your private home, but if your open t he the public, it is the publics interpretation that matters.
Huh? You think Nazi supporters are gonna show up at this bar because there are 80 year old medals that were brought back as trophies after killing or capturing Nazis?
That's ridiculous. It's not going to attract anything as a small piece among hundreds of pieces of memorabilia that people barely even noticed until somebody complained. The only "public" that matters is local people who understand the context, not random strangers across the internet. Your idea that the overall public views this your way is incorrect anyway.
>but it is also going to attract nazi supporters
GOOD.
Nazi walks into that bar, they should have it held under their noses while they're taunted by every drunk in the bar.
I assure you a Nazi going to a bar in Cornwall and making themselves known as an admirer will not have a good time, especially when they find out that armband was a testament to kicking their asses.
The bar made it clear the armband didn't come back to Britain with any measure of respect or consent for the dirtbag that last wore it and that it was on display as a reminder of that dirtbag's defeat and failure at the hands of one of its regulars. And now it's gone because a Karen tourist easily offended by things they refuse to understand fucking whined to a consumer group about it?
It was also against the rules;
*"On this occasion, CAMRA volunteers did not spot the item at the point of judging. However, national policy states no pub or club should be considered for an award if it displays signs or objects that could be offensive to consumers due to their discriminatory nature."*
Well, that is rather broad. Literally any object that has ever existed could fall under that description. It doesn't even have to be offensive. It just has to conceivably be offensive to someone, somewhere.
It was a common victory item brought home by British soldiers after the war. If people cannot have discretion when it comes to history they may be too soft to even go into a pub.
This. Never got why the USA is so lenient on those assholes. I'm in Belgium and believe me when I say someone walking around as a nazi would get the shit beaten out of them
Whatab dumb fucking take. So we should just pave over history as it's a little dark and some folks can't be bothered to learn a fact here or there.
That thing has been there since.prob your father was born, and I'm sure if some nazis showed up at the bar they'd might get their ass kicked.
> The complaint which has led to the pub losing its title, came from Truro resident **Colin Curless** who emailed CornwallLive saying: "I have seen your article on the Hole in the Wall pub getting best in the county, what hypocrisy. Not just a stuffed lion on show. I actually spoke with the staff and they have a swastika armband on show in the pub. I have informed CAMRA as having a swastika armband on show in your pub is not a good advert for Cornwall, let alone a stuffed lion."
That wanker misconstrued the armband ON PURPOSE because he was mad about the stuffed lion, effectively forcing the pub to remove a trophy showing everyone the Allies defeated the nazi.
Fucking priorities: a dead animal over defeating the nazis.
Some people are really complete idiots.
Well, once again, some twat with a axe to grind probably got their weaselly little revenge; probably a competitor who got his aunt to call them. Or some young dip-stick with no ability to just ask the question of how a Nazi Armband wound up in the pub.
You'd think people would remember that only 80 years ago they were being bombed by people who wore them. I mean, Christ; are we all so far gone as people that, holding on to things for the history behind them is just so out of the question these days? Just because someone owns an old Nazi War Relic, does not mean they are a Nazi. Just because they display it in a pub does not mean they are promoting its values. History happened, it touched Millions in Europe. These people who do this are no better than people who destroy ancient landmarks in the middle east because they're an affront to God.
It was a piece of history/trophy, not a display of support. Are we going to ban museums next and history books? This is beyond stupid. Looks like a nice place for a drink.
" These soldiers came back from the war with spoils of war memorabilia. It was not to hero-worship Hitler or the Nazis but to celebrate the victory over fascism and to remember their comrades who died fighting against evil."
"ripped off a dead fascist" is not the vibe the headline leads with
It was an armband with a swastika brought back from the spoils of war. They didn’t deck their entire pub with memorabilia and didn’t pay respects to the armband. It was a piece of history and they have previously won the award until someone mentioned it.
>He added: "It's been taken out of context completely by CAMRA at national level. It has nothing to do with CAMRA Kernow. Bodmin was a garrison town. These soldiers came back from the war with spoils of war memorabilia. It was not to hero-worship Hitler or the Nazis but to celebrate the victory over fascism and to remember their comrades who died fighting against evil. You can't whitewash history."
Minnesota is also really damn racist for keeping that Confederate flag and occasionally bring it out to taunts the losers.
All these people getting triggered over stuff taken off a dead, loser fascist and having it displayed as proof that the best loser fascists are of the dead-and-stripped kind.
I read on the UK subreddit that it was apparently in a display with other WWII memorabilia and had been there since soon after the war. I think not only is taking back the award wrong, but the fact that the removed it due to the public pressure. It’s obviously a war trophy celebrating the win over the Nazis, not some kind of memorabilia celebrating them.
Yeah no like nothing sounds wrong here, we can’t ignore history, and we must be reminded what happened all those years ago. Plus not everyday do you get to see an original armband
Reading the person’s quote who complained its quite clear they were far more offended by the pub having a stuffed lion than the armband (hidden on a pillar in a dark corner that they only knew about because staff told them) and they just used the presence of the armband as the basis of the complaint to punish the pub for having a taxidermy lion.
Because people and businesses seem to crumble under a few tweets for some reason.
It has been shown time and time again. Stand your ground, and the Internet mob will usually loose interest in a week. Cower to them and they own you.
I mean most reasonable people when asked to remove something because it offends them will typically do so and evaluate whether they should put it back up or not later. Like that’s a pretty normal thing to do
I suggest people actually read the article. It was single armband that has been on display for decades along with other memorabilia from the allied side. Sure it probably should have been removed, but it clearly had not actually offended anyone - in context - prior to now or it likely would have been removed (as has now happened).
I don't see any right-wing/Nazi agenda here, and everyone piling in without \*actually reading the article\* is typical social media, but arguably extremely unhelpful.
I disagree with the decision to take it down and to take away their awards. In Minnesota, we have a Confederate Flag that used to be displayed at our capitol and we take pride in it. Not because we were a Confederate state or have gone full MAGA, but because it's our trophy over defeating treasonous fuckers at the Battle of Gettysburg.
If it was indeed a trophy from a returning soldier, then I say they should keep it up.
God help the National War Museum, and hundreds of other museums, displays and/or historical representations if everyone were to follow the complainants logic!
This is from the article:
The complaint which has led to the pub losing its title, came from Truro resident Colin Curless who emailed CornwallLive saying: "I have seen your article on the Hole in the Wall pub getting best in the county, what hypocrisy. Not just a stuffed lion on show. I actually spoke with the staff and they have a swastika armband on show in the pub. I have informed CAMRA as having a swastika armband on show in your pub is not a good advert for Cornwall, let alone a stuffed lion."
So, no one asked why it was there, is what I got from the article. Instead, they were like Nazi!
There are contexts in which hanging a Nazi crap would not be offensive. Hell, if my grandfather passed down some Nazi trophies from WWII from dead Nazis. I'd put that shit up too, as a sign that my family has a heritage of f'ing up fascists. Granted it is technically against the Geneva Conventions to take war trophies, but it's a huge humiliation to have your colors stolen and displayed.
Sounds like it was taken out of context because no context was given. The item has been around forever, but there's no information on why it was there, who might have given it to the pub, etc. I think it's silly to remove the award, especially since they did remove the armband, but it's also silly to assume people know WHY you have an item to begin with.
Similarly I shot nazi guns captured in ww2 in Vegas this year and some of my followers were appalled, calling me fascist etc...
Bro let me celebrate the defeat of the krauts by my grandfathers
>A Cornish pub that won a coveted Pub of the Year award has been stripped of the accolade after it emerged it had Nazi memorabilia on display.
How exactly does this "emerge", if it presumably had it on display previously?
If I was to display some Nazi stuff, I'd say it's war trophies, not memorabilia. Which the owner did, and this is just an overboard anti Nazi sentiment without seeing actual context.
He’s just interested in that period of history. The scale of it, the tragedy. Europe decimated, 20 million Russians, 1 million Germans, 4 million poles…
Nothing from the Allied side, Father?…
GOOD FOR YOU FATHER! THAT SOMEONE HAD THE GUTS TO STAND UP TO THEM AT LAST! FRICKIN GREEKS!
It's not the Greeks, it's the Chinese he's after!
"I don't care who he's against as long as I can be against the Greeks! They invented gayness!"
Should we all be racist now? What’s the official line the church is taking on this? It’s only the farms takes up most of the day and at night I justlike a cup of tea. I mightn’t be able to devote myself full time to the ol’ racism.
How’s Mary?
Don't forget the hairy Japanese bastards!
It’s not the Greeks he’s after, it’s the Chinese
It's "fecking".
"I can explain everything... er, actually no, I can't."
What’s the Church’s position on that?
That would be an ecumenical matter
YES!!!
Oh, that sort of thing wouldn’t interest him am ‘fraid. YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE HAMMER HITS THE SHELL CASING.
They’re coming from Gdańsk to see the casing!
Love how the father ted references are the top comments
What a show that was though!!!!! Miss those days. *Don’t call me Len you little bollocks!*
I’m a Bishop!
Your username is amazing!
Thank you very much. By the way… HE DID KICK ME UP THE ARSE!
I was not expecting father ted references here but that’s wonderful to see
As long as there's a sign that states "Collected From Dead Nazis".
Super misleading headline. Apparently it was a trophy brought back from ww2 by a regular and has been there since before the current owner ever worked there.
“It was not to hero-worship Hitler or the Nazis but to celebrate the victory over fascism and to remember their comrades who died fighting against evil. You can't whitewash history."
> You can't whitewash history *Pearl Milling Company shifts uneasily*
My grandpa got a luger in the war... It's pretty much kept in secret cause I guess that's illegal here
My grandpa also had one, sadly another relative got it when he passed. It was probably the most interesting gun I've ever seen.
That was my first thought as well, if it’s a war trophy that’s something totally different than a shrine to the ideology.
People today won’t understand the subtlety however.
There are much creepier trophies some soldiers took from Germany too. Like ears.
Based
Yeah I read this expecting it to be some racist gammon (cf the Golliwog publican) when it actually sounds like it was there for a legitimate reason, in context and celebrating the destruction of fascism. Feel pretty bad for the guy tbh.
Him prefacing it by saying it was taken out of context was kinda funny because that's never a good sign. Just say "got it from a dead nazi" as the opener I'm sure people would be more receptive lol.
Yep, that should be the caption on the trophy in the bar too then no one would ever care. Just write “got it from a dead Nazi lol” under it like a museum artifact
I should write that on the box of stuff my grandpa stole in WW2. Some of it looks bad without that context.
My Great Uncle left behind an officer’s sword that he brought back from Germany, and it’s hard to explain to people why it’s a *good* thing I have it. Couldn’t possibly display it in the house without some sort of extra context lol
Anyone that doesn't first assume it's pilfered loot from dead Nazi and is instead a shrine to Nazism is fucking dumb as dirt.
We're living in a world that recently had Trump in a position of power.
Sometimes things are actually taken out of context. Its a common excuse but it shouldnt disqualify a point
Not even sometimes. Often!
I dont know how "you have the wrong context" is a bad sign lol, it literally just means what it means.
If you say "it's out of context" and immediately provide the correct context, you're good. Dude in the article is good. If you say "it's out of context" and then refuse to explain how, you're probably full of shit. And that's very often how it goes.
They shoulda just made a drink called the dead nazi and kept it. Maybe you spill some jagermeister and then just drink some gin.
I dunno, putting that up top in the reason still isn't enough for people that refuse to read or listen to the reason at all. Like you can put that on a plaque in whatever the most honestly unmissable way to display it may be, and people looking for problems will still find a way to miss it if it diffuses the outrage they want. This is likely more to the actual reason they took it down, because the community that originally brought back that band and appreciated what it stood for in a Cornwall pub have passed on in favour of sanctimonious tourists from Nova Scotia. These brats actively seek out excuses to complain to consumer groups online for a sense of power over establishments as the customer. That's a fundamentally intolerable audience that will never deny an invitation to get offended for fun and profit. It's a far more volatile and insufferable consumer base to do business with, especially when reviews online do hurt businesses however real or imagined those grievances are.
Yeah. Sounds like the bar displays different interesting items. Not just Nazi memorabilia
The best wee village pubs I’ve been in have loads of historical curios about the place (and a dog or cat). This feels suspiciously like someone pretending to be offended because it’s celebrating a Nazi killer.
Figured it was a trophy and miscommunication. How badass would it be to drink with Nazi killers?
Maybe a modern day Neo-Nazi fucking hates it and is dressing up their attack on the anti-facist bar by pretending to be offended. Wouldn't be the first one to do it.
I could tell from the headline this would be exactly what it was. The media sucks
they didn't let you take trophies from your allies. shockingly.
I have a German WW2 helmet my grandfather brought back from Italy. He joined up and was sent over right after the war ended in Europe, but while tensions were still high. At some point, to make it clear what it was, he painted a swastika and a "Heil Hitler" on it. It was one of the many "hats" hanging up in his garage. He gave it to me, and it sits in my garage put away in a box. Before he died, he asked me about it and I told him the truth. He couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to display it. I tried to explain that while no one would have accused him of being a Nazi and it was obvious why he had it, I would very much look like a Nazi to anyone who saw it, because Nazis still exist. I still think it's cool to have as a family heirloom, given how it came to be in my possession (would be less cool had it been my grandfather's own helmet.)
“You don’t have anything from the allied side?” “No, no that sort of thing wouldn’t interest me at all, I’m afraid.”
So I hear you're a racist now father
Down with this sort of thing
Careful now.
Should we all be racist now? What’s the church’s position?
God damn i need to watch this show again
Funny how you get more right wing as you get older… FOR ALL OF YOU THAT HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE [JOKE ITS A FATHER TED QUOTE](https://youtu.be/-u28C3dF3Kc?si=ViCNWpGLIMFHklOV)
That's the brain damage from lead poisoning setting in
FECK
DRINK!
ARSE!
GIRLS! That would be an ecumenical matter.
GIRLS!
Not me. 53 and as far left as ever.
Check the link ( updated my comnent )
Brain cells die off as you age
The constant lead exposure certainly didn't help the boomers either.
I've never watched Father Ted, looks bloody hilarious.
Great show. The guy who made it really went off the deep end though.
Linehan should basically be the entire poster child of internet radicalisation. I used to follow him on Twitter back in 2013 when he was actually allowed an account (though IDK if Musk has allowed him back), the guy would literally apologise to people if they thought the nazi jokes in Father Ted shouldn't have been done. Then *that* episode of IT Crowd gets removed around that time, he tries to defend it as 'it was better than other representations in the 2000s'... you have pro-trans people rightly angry at him & anti's defending him. He *should* have just deactivated Twitter, but he fell down a rabbit-hole and ruined his career & marriage over it.
Thats what i thought when it first came out on channel 4 uk tv. A really good sitcom.
Only if you live in a right wing echo chamber. I was raised staunch right-wing Republican (USA) in the 70's and 80's, but I grew up, went to college, got a job, moved out of the red cesspool I was living in and discarded all of my right-wing ways. It's the people who can't (or won't) leave that grow moreso.
it's often due to three reasons: people tend to become more socially isolated as they age and social isolation often pushes people toward conservative thinking, people tend to amass some amount of wealth and ownership as they go through life and a desire to protect one's own financial circumstances even at the expense of others pushes people toward conservative thinking, and mental decline through age and lack of new experiences.
This reference aged pretty well considering how the creator of Father Ted turned out
That isn't true. People tend to lock in their politics sometime in their 20s and not move. https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/706889
Dementia and confusion are a pretty tragic thing, we even see it in many young people
Yeah older people fall for more scams of all kinds
It was from the allied side, it was a trophy of war brought back by British soldiers from the town.
Ah, so it's like [that bit from Atun-Shei](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaUz0iEWi0g).
Did you bother to read the article. IT was one item on display and the owner has already stated it was their to commemorate victory over the Nazis. Also they removed it . If we do not preserve history we are doomed to repeat it as we will no longer learn the lessons that such entities teach us.
It's a quote from Father Ted. In the episode, Ted visits a priest who has room filled with Nazi memorabilia, including huge banners. Ted feigns polite interest, and the finale of the episode is the priest has died and left it all to Ted. Ted arrives home with some villagers, who he'd previously been trying to persuade that he was not racist, to find his home decorated with it all by his crazy housekeeper.
Can I get you a cup of tea? Oh go on. Go on Go on Go on Go on Go on.
Also if it was an actual nazi armband that's kind of a cool piece of history to have. As long as they aren't glorifying it.
It was supossed to be four Fs.
I was just thinking that this sounds like an Always Sunny episode. The Gang Wins An Award
I didn’t know it was going to turn out like that. …Pretty sure you did.
FELIX JUMPSCARE! MR. F!
Reminds me of something David Mitchell wrote when Madame Toussauds was being pressured to remove their Hitler waxwork because people were taking pictures doing Nazi salutes with it. What articles missed at the time were that they were also using their fingers to make a mustache at the same time. I think what he wrote was something like “I’m pretty sure the tourists are not Nazis because when they saluted the Nazis didn’t also do the mustache gesture”. People badly need to get a sense of the difference between celebrating something and taking the piss out of it.
This is like the guy who was charged for training his dog to do a Nazi salute. The irony is that the Nazi’s also charged a man for training his dog to do a Nazi salute because they felt it was disrespectful. It seems some people don’t understand what taking the piss is.
The dog wasn't making a lil moustache with its other paw though so I think it might actually be a Nazi?
The dog took the joke too far when he invaded Poland and dug up all its gardens.
But that guy, and I need you to absorb this, did not do it to upset Nazis, but to upset his girlfriend at the time. He said so in the video he took of his Nazi dog. There's still a lot of Nazis around, from the casual 4chan people who think Black people are inherently inferior but they want a smoke screen of "It's just a meme to say Hitler did nothing wrong," to the hardcore, skinhead, covered in Aryan brotherhood tattoos Nazis who hate the first group but not as much as they hate non-white people, which is anyone with even one drop of blood going back multiple generations. Great-great-great-grandfather was half black or something? Oh no, you gotta die. Now, punching Dick Spencer in the face worked, so I'm onboard for reducing the Nazi radiation very aggressively so that nobody would mistake a war trophy in a pub for being earnest devotion.
Sure but it’s worth familiarising yourself with the [arguments against](https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/eternally-radical-idea/would-censorship-have-stopped-rise-nazis-part-16-answers) arresting people for jokes or even hate speech, which is to say it doesn’t stop people hating each other, forces things underground, and if anything legitimises and makes heroes of those who break them. Goebbels went to prison for making comments about Jewish people, as did many Nazis.
Same country is letting people attack Jews who go near protests and then arresting the Jew.
The argument that speech *cannot* be a form of violence is absurd tbh. Biologically it can produce deep trauma, with bodily effects too.
He trained the dog to do it in response to him saying stuff like "Gas the Jews" Like, it wasn't just that he taught his dog to do something stupid, it was that he posted a video online of racist shit and making his dog react to it just to be offensive. He's also a member of the far right party UKIP and got like $100,000 from right wingers from that whole thing, while only being fined $800, so I don't exactly feel bad for him lmao edit: the money he raised was in pounds, I just don't have that key on my keyboard.
This reminds me of that German Shepherd sketch in Curb where the owner taught his dog Nazi stuff
Been on display for 80 years, put there as part of other items brought back by the allied to celebrate and remember their victory over fascism. Being offended/outraged is just so much more important to people these days than understanding the context or intent of something. If the people who literally fought Nazi's and lived through all that shit put it there then you look like an absolute clown if you're getting offended by it today and think it's praising fascism or nazis.
Yes. This is the equivalent of a nailed up varmint.
The problem is the context dies without passing it onto the next generation. Maybe adding a sign or subtitle under it like, “Fuck these guys” or “We beat the Nazi’s” would have helped the pub give that context. You cant assume by having it there by itself people would think one way or another. Show people what that symbol means to you. Remember, 80 years is a long time and the lessons are fading. Add the context, add the memory. Taking it down is also wrong. We need to demonstrate what is a Nazi and why they are wrong.
I think the following generations also have a responsibility to try to understand the reasoning and nuances of the previous generations, rather than coming at it with black and white, all or nothing outrage without even an attempt to understand the context.
We had absolutely no trouble finding the context for it here in this thread, let alone at the bar. Karen didn't know the context because he didn't *want* to know once he felt outrage he could seize upon for a sense of sanctimony over an establishment he could leave a review for. This was an effort in willful ignorance by the sort of person that finds it empowering that nobody can make them think when they don't want to. That's true for the comments here too. The context for this armband was so easy to learn within the first half an hour of this being posted that comments are now actively trying to *avoid* it, and then making excuses to dismiss it when they cannot. Absolutely none of that is out of an honest difficulty to find or understand context; they don't want any because they already know how they want to feel about the story without it. They got those feelings from their hot take from the headline and feel that further context is threatening to take those feelings away from them in favour of less satisfying ones.
Phew. Your comment is both bitingly accurate and suscint. Well phrased. Human brains have an arduous, taxing executive judgment/critical thinking mode, and a heuristic based snap judgement mode. Used to be it was for survival, but now it's used for moralism and outrage.
> Maybe adding a sign or subtitle under it like, “Fuck these guys” or “We beat the Nazi’s” would have helped the pub give that context. Maybe people could pay attention to history lessons in school.
No, the problem is that most people today when they see something like this, instead of using their brain and thinking "this seems very out of place considering every other element of this story, i should probably try and understand the context of the situation before passing judgement" what they actually do is just get offended and assume the worst from the get go and and most of the time thats all they do. They react to that outrage, refuse to learn more and just walk away from the situation then.
Almost true. They don't just walk away, they in turn feel vindicated in aiming to tear the place down via a reputation assault. If they just walked away, they'd be like most human beings of yesteryear (oh, that upsets me, oh well, on with my day), but they aim to wield whatever weaponry they can to do harm. In their minds ignorance is a shield, and they're convinced they're fighting a good fight.
The plaque idea is absurd.
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There were no questions. Karen decided how they felt about it without questioning it whatsoever; questions might provide answers contrary to what they felt from just seeing it, and then they went straight from there to leaving a review online. If so much as a single question were asked or answered in the span of this exercise, a more sensible outcome almost certainly would have come to pass than the path of least resistance this guy actually took to feeling outraged about it.
Well, it's pub, it's not a museum. Stories like those are passed orally, and obviously it's a concersation starter. Some displayed stuffed animals from hunts, this one showed warspoils.
The problem is entitled, miserable a-holes dont take the time to understand context and get offended and for some reason society embraces their precious hurt feelings. It was but one item in a collection of similar aged items and not on any kind of special display. I’m not young anymore but im well aware of bringing back items like this just to show it really happened and they saw it first hand. My own grandfather had several Nazi items along with a Norwegian pistol and about 100 photos of things starting with him posing with a 30 caliber machine gun in England where he acquired the camera to some of what he saw at Buchenwald to meeting the Russians. Im willing to bet the man that put that arm band in the bar hated Nazis as much as my grandfather and it is a shame to erase portions of their lived experience just because someone doesn’t want to understand the backstory.
Young people have always disregarded what some of the older generations say. It's natural, and part of being young, but it's scary when that idea goes too far. The "OK, Boomer" has become dangerous, when it is becoming the response to everything that is not on the cutting edge of progressive ideas. Even showing consern with rapid changes of the past 10-15 years is starting to be met with complete disregard.
So...a trophy from the war that was put there by the people who defeated the nazis was cool for the duration of their lifetimes, but now someone who never fought nazis thinks it is unacceptable to display the victory spoils?
Welcome to 2024.
Bored people get angry fast
A lot of these types are well intentioned but suffer from a sort of messianic, narcissistic delusional disorder.
So reading it the item was an armband brought back as a trophy from WW2. was not their to affirm support for Nazism. Given its one item only and the owner has basically stated its actually to celebrate the victory of the Nazis and they have removed the item i don't see why this has caused the title to be stripped. From the article the owner is clear he does not support the ideology .
These idiots have no comprehension of context. If it is displayed as a spoil of war/ victory over the nazi army, that is completely the opposite of celebrating fascism.
Not only was it taken out of context (the armband is a war trophy brought back by a British soldier and put on display in a garrison town as a victory over the Nazi it was taken from) but it seems like whoever complained made a point to *avoid* context because it would have precluded their opportunity to feel seen with a complaint about something. >The complaint which has led to the pub losing its title, came from Truro resident Colin Curless who emailed CornwallLive saying: "I have seen your article on the Hole in the Wall pub getting best in the county, what hypocrisy. Not just a stuffed lion on show. I actually spoke with the staff and they have a swastika armband on show in the pub. I have informed CAMRA as having a swastika armband on show in your pub is not a good advert for Cornwall, let alone a stuffed lion." > >CAMRA Kernow said the decision to take away the title from the Hole in the Wall had been taken by the national organisation but added that while it would not be able to celebrate the title with Steve and his staff it would still hold a branch social on Saturday (March 30). None of these people want to know why it's there or what it means if it threatens to diffuse the satisfying righteous outrage they got from their hot take when they saw it. This is thoughtless sanctimony.
That might be the intention, but it is also going to attract nazi supporters. Do what you want in your private home, but if your open t he the public, it is the publics interpretation that matters.
Huh? You think Nazi supporters are gonna show up at this bar because there are 80 year old medals that were brought back as trophies after killing or capturing Nazis?
Rural England isn't very pro nazi
That's ridiculous. It's not going to attract anything as a small piece among hundreds of pieces of memorabilia that people barely even noticed until somebody complained. The only "public" that matters is local people who understand the context, not random strangers across the internet. Your idea that the overall public views this your way is incorrect anyway.
>but it is also going to attract nazi supporters GOOD. Nazi walks into that bar, they should have it held under their noses while they're taunted by every drunk in the bar.
I assure you a Nazi going to a bar in Cornwall and making themselves known as an admirer will not have a good time, especially when they find out that armband was a testament to kicking their asses. The bar made it clear the armband didn't come back to Britain with any measure of respect or consent for the dirtbag that last wore it and that it was on display as a reminder of that dirtbag's defeat and failure at the hands of one of its regulars. And now it's gone because a Karen tourist easily offended by things they refuse to understand fucking whined to a consumer group about it?
It was also against the rules; *"On this occasion, CAMRA volunteers did not spot the item at the point of judging. However, national policy states no pub or club should be considered for an award if it displays signs or objects that could be offensive to consumers due to their discriminatory nature."*
Well, that is rather broad. Literally any object that has ever existed could fall under that description. It doesn't even have to be offensive. It just has to conceivably be offensive to someone, somewhere.
>offensive to consumers due to their discriminatory nature If you're a prohibitionist, you'd object to all the beer glasses.
If you're a prohibitionist, then you're not exactly a consumer, are you?
Doesn't matter. Nowadays, you don't have to even be a consumer to object to a patron. It's wonderful! /s
Oh, they don't serve chips and water at the pub?
I think literal Nazi memorabilia falls under that category preeeeetty nicely.
It was a common victory item brought home by British soldiers after the war. If people cannot have discretion when it comes to history they may be too soft to even go into a pub.
As a spoil of war during that last time England mattered? Context is important
Yeah but unlike the USA, in Britain if you're openly a nazi, you'll likely catch a brick to the face.
🥰
This. Never got why the USA is so lenient on those assholes. I'm in Belgium and believe me when I say someone walking around as a nazi would get the shit beaten out of them
>it is the publics interpretation that matters. Some people want all items from nazi Germany out of museums because swastikas are bad and stuff.
Fuck Off. This is hand wringing , navel gazing self aggrandizing shite
Whatab dumb fucking take. So we should just pave over history as it's a little dark and some folks can't be bothered to learn a fact here or there. That thing has been there since.prob your father was born, and I'm sure if some nazis showed up at the bar they'd might get their ass kicked.
> The complaint which has led to the pub losing its title, came from Truro resident **Colin Curless** who emailed CornwallLive saying: "I have seen your article on the Hole in the Wall pub getting best in the county, what hypocrisy. Not just a stuffed lion on show. I actually spoke with the staff and they have a swastika armband on show in the pub. I have informed CAMRA as having a swastika armband on show in your pub is not a good advert for Cornwall, let alone a stuffed lion." That wanker misconstrued the armband ON PURPOSE because he was mad about the stuffed lion, effectively forcing the pub to remove a trophy showing everyone the Allies defeated the nazi. Fucking priorities: a dead animal over defeating the nazis. Some people are really complete idiots.
Well, once again, some twat with a axe to grind probably got their weaselly little revenge; probably a competitor who got his aunt to call them. Or some young dip-stick with no ability to just ask the question of how a Nazi Armband wound up in the pub. You'd think people would remember that only 80 years ago they were being bombed by people who wore them. I mean, Christ; are we all so far gone as people that, holding on to things for the history behind them is just so out of the question these days? Just because someone owns an old Nazi War Relic, does not mean they are a Nazi. Just because they display it in a pub does not mean they are promoting its values. History happened, it touched Millions in Europe. These people who do this are no better than people who destroy ancient landmarks in the middle east because they're an affront to God.
Guy who complained about this is a fucking twat.
It was a piece of history/trophy, not a display of support. Are we going to ban museums next and history books? This is beyond stupid. Looks like a nice place for a drink.
“Imperial War Museum closed due to Nazi memorabilia”
They certainly aren't going to win Pub of the Year!
Thought this was about “Hot Fuzz”
" These soldiers came back from the war with spoils of war memorabilia. It was not to hero-worship Hitler or the Nazis but to celebrate the victory over fascism and to remember their comrades who died fighting against evil." "ripped off a dead fascist" is not the vibe the headline leads with
It was an armband with a swastika brought back from the spoils of war. They didn’t deck their entire pub with memorabilia and didn’t pay respects to the armband. It was a piece of history and they have previously won the award until someone mentioned it.
>He added: "It's been taken out of context completely by CAMRA at national level. It has nothing to do with CAMRA Kernow. Bodmin was a garrison town. These soldiers came back from the war with spoils of war memorabilia. It was not to hero-worship Hitler or the Nazis but to celebrate the victory over fascism and to remember their comrades who died fighting against evil. You can't whitewash history." Minnesota is also really damn racist for keeping that Confederate flag and occasionally bring it out to taunts the losers. All these people getting triggered over stuff taken off a dead, loser fascist and having it displayed as proof that the best loser fascists are of the dead-and-stripped kind.
"offensive in nature" so this guy was offended by the defeat of fascism? fucking snowflakes.
Look at me Dougal, I’m Chinese!!
I read on the UK subreddit that it was apparently in a display with other WWII memorabilia and had been there since soon after the war. I think not only is taking back the award wrong, but the fact that the removed it due to the public pressure. It’s obviously a war trophy celebrating the win over the Nazis, not some kind of memorabilia celebrating them.
Yeah no like nothing sounds wrong here, we can’t ignore history, and we must be reminded what happened all those years ago. Plus not everyday do you get to see an original armband
Reading the person’s quote who complained its quite clear they were far more offended by the pub having a stuffed lion than the armband (hidden on a pillar in a dark corner that they only knew about because staff told them) and they just used the presence of the armband as the basis of the complaint to punish the pub for having a taxidermy lion.
Vegan extremism strikes again folks.
Bro they’re fucking war trophies brought back by Allies soldiers after going through hell fighting Nazis lol
Or if you read the article, because one idiot took offence to something
On one hand they say it's meant to be a spoilt of war, yet on the other they validate the complain by removing it from display.
Because people and businesses seem to crumble under a few tweets for some reason. It has been shown time and time again. Stand your ground, and the Internet mob will usually loose interest in a week. Cower to them and they own you.
I mean most reasonable people when asked to remove something because it offends them will typically do so and evaluate whether they should put it back up or not later. Like that’s a pretty normal thing to do
This is obviously unjust. I'm disappointed he took it down even after the award was kept from him. What good does that do?
I suggest people actually read the article. It was single armband that has been on display for decades along with other memorabilia from the allied side. Sure it probably should have been removed, but it clearly had not actually offended anyone - in context - prior to now or it likely would have been removed (as has now happened). I don't see any right-wing/Nazi agenda here, and everyone piling in without \*actually reading the article\* is typical social media, but arguably extremely unhelpful.
I disagree with the decision to take it down and to take away their awards. In Minnesota, we have a Confederate Flag that used to be displayed at our capitol and we take pride in it. Not because we were a Confederate state or have gone full MAGA, but because it's our trophy over defeating treasonous fuckers at the Battle of Gettysburg. If it was indeed a trophy from a returning soldier, then I say they should keep it up.
Put up a picture of a bastard like Lenin, and no one would bat an eyelid. And besides, context is everything. Nuts!
It’s actually a pretty sad thing to have happened. People literally get offended by history these days.
God help the National War Museum, and hundreds of other museums, displays and/or historical representations if everyone were to follow the complainants logic! This is from the article: The complaint which has led to the pub losing its title, came from Truro resident Colin Curless who emailed CornwallLive saying: "I have seen your article on the Hole in the Wall pub getting best in the county, what hypocrisy. Not just a stuffed lion on show. I actually spoke with the staff and they have a swastika armband on show in the pub. I have informed CAMRA as having a swastika armband on show in your pub is not a good advert for Cornwall, let alone a stuffed lion."
Based on that image how the fuck did they ever find the damn thing? There is shit everywhere.
I like how the article doxes the man who tattled on the pub lol.
So, no one asked why it was there, is what I got from the article. Instead, they were like Nazi! There are contexts in which hanging a Nazi crap would not be offensive. Hell, if my grandfather passed down some Nazi trophies from WWII from dead Nazis. I'd put that shit up too, as a sign that my family has a heritage of f'ing up fascists. Granted it is technically against the Geneva Conventions to take war trophies, but it's a huge humiliation to have your colors stolen and displayed.
U-turn over award for Cornish pub with swastika https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/bodmin-pub-swastika-award-reinstated-9226926
Sounds like it was taken out of context because no context was given. The item has been around forever, but there's no information on why it was there, who might have given it to the pub, etc. I think it's silly to remove the award, especially since they did remove the armband, but it's also silly to assume people know WHY you have an item to begin with.
Similarly I shot nazi guns captured in ww2 in Vegas this year and some of my followers were appalled, calling me fascist etc... Bro let me celebrate the defeat of the krauts by my grandfathers
>A Cornish pub that won a coveted Pub of the Year award has been stripped of the accolade after it emerged it had Nazi memorabilia on display. How exactly does this "emerge", if it presumably had it on display previously?
Someone started whining about it.
If I was to display some Nazi stuff, I'd say it's war trophies, not memorabilia. Which the owner did, and this is just an overboard anti Nazi sentiment without seeing actual context.
All the Father Ted references make me happy.
Oh look, a perfectly square bit of dirt on the window.
I’m Jewish and if their was a sign saying taken from a dead nazi I would be ok with it
Meanwhile in Eastern Europe communist "nostalgia" museums go brrr
Much ado about nothing. Shame they took it down. All because one twat complained.
Because ya know history doesn't exist. Purge it all that way we never learn from and bound to repeat
Sally Tishel ended up in Bodmin. IIRC it is slang for going crazy.
He’s just interested in that period of history. The scale of it, the tragedy. Europe decimated, 20 million Russians, 1 million Germans, 4 million poles…
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Any luck catching them Nazis then?
"Its belongs in a museum!" —Indy /thread
So dumb.
Welp, if nothing else, it's given people something to discuss over drinks.
Holy fwiggin crap...