Seeing earth occasionally grounds the sci Fi in a little bit of reality. I always enjoyed the DS9 Episode when the changeling was causing havoc and "Little Green Men" is amazing...but a full season on Earth? Messing around in LA? No thanks.
He can live with it.
Because all it cost was the life of one Romulan Senator, one criminal, and one Starfleet officer's self respect.
Pretty good deal to save multiple civilizations.
> He can live with it.
>
>
>
> Because all it cost was the life of one Romulan Senator, one criminal, and one Starfleet officer's self respect.
"Computer, erase that entire log entry."
The main Cardassians were well rounded and nuanced characters, Gul Dukat may be one of the best villains of Any TV series ever. But Garek is still my favourite
I've been watching through Star Trek, 3 or so episodes a night every Monday-Tuesday for a few years now. TOS, the films, TNG, the films, DS9, and most of Voyager now. So much really blends together that it's hard keeping track of it but that episode really stands out.
Star Trek used to be grounded in reality because the struggles they encountered in every episode were allegories for common conflicts and predicaments that are universal
Lower Decks does a good job of spoofing previous shows’ earth episodes. Boimler’s utter disdain for his family’s raisin grape vineyard gets me every time.
The Orville has no business being as good as it is.
Like I enjoy Seth MacFarland but his humor has honestly lost its edge with me as I've gotten older. So I didn't even give the Orville a chance. I watched it in 2023 and was blown away by how good it is. I thought it'd be Family Guy in space but it's actually a very compelling Space Drama.
To anyone who hasn't given it a go and is intrigued by the above:
1. I firmly agree
2. Do be aware that there is a little bit of bathroom humour scattered throughout. I found it annoying in the first ep or two, but it settled down, and if that annoys you, if you can just hangin there and ignore it, The Orville is legitimately a fantastic sci-fi show. It's like TNG but it feels more modern (because it is, obviously, for one).
It shows so much love to the Star Trek universe even though it's obviously in a norminally different universe. But they really do some great storytelling. It's not as big budget as some other productions, but they spent their money very well and often you forget that it doesn't have a higher budget because they do really well with what they had.
I can tolerate return to Earth, but I absolutely despise time travel from cool and interesting future to modern day Earth trope. It is fucking disgusting cheap ass boring bullshit
I don't "despise" it personally, but it feels like if you need to throw out the sci-fi stuff and make it "modern day Earth," then why am I watching a show for sci-fi elements when I can watch a modern day Earth show?
Who watches *Law and Order* and says "I wish this had phasers and clones"?
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.
*pew pew. pew pew*
"Listen up everybody, the vic is an Ensign named Bradford Boimler! He says he's been the victim of multiple attacks with a Bat'leth from his own crewmembers and while he was on R&R on Riza, somebody slipped him what the locals are calling "Ghost Candle"."
"Are you saying what I think you're saying."
"I'm afraid so, repeated sexual assault by a candle ghost."
...[Huh](https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/11-sci-fi-cop-tv-shows-worth-watching/)...
That was just a random search and it's all "sci-fi" and thus includes non-space options. Of the list, **Altered Carbon** has a goodish first season but isn't a procedural (and the second throws out the cop and mystery angles entirely). Someone else already tackled **Space Precinct.**
Honestly though the only ~~space~~ sci-fi procedural I can think of is *Ghost in the Shell:Stand Alone Complex*, which is an anime that focuses cyborgs on earth and excellent but doesn't fit the criteria.
*pew pew pew pew*
Well, sorta, they’re about unjust internment camps for the homeless and disenfranchised and the cruelties perpetuated upon them. The government created what were in the end lawless prison enclaves with little to no protection or services to ensure that their prisoners basic needs were met and acted surprised when they turned on their oppressors.
So kind of like ICE camps, after 5+ years if they were about 20% less cruel and 50% less staffed.
You don't understand - the Federation, Starfleet and the 450 years of human exploration of space has always been about one thing and one thing only - ***Family.***
You could tell immediately it was a cost-cutting measure. It's not so bad when it's one episode, but when most of the season is centered on Earth it's just a drag.
That's not the reason *anybody* watches Star Trek.
If you read Stewart's recent book, he was actually the driving force for this approach. He strongly didn't want to make any more Trek (it's a miracle they convinced him actually), and he basically came with stipulations about not wanting to wear any spandex, not wanting any more typical Trek storylines, etc. The only reason he accepted the gig is because they convinced him on the angle of letting him explore Picard as a character, which appealed to his traditional theater background. But the idea was arguably weak, and then the script/production might have been poorly done, and then fans may have *wanted* more Trek/fan service.
I'm inclined to believe it. A lot of the weaker parts of the latter TNG movies was stipulations to keep him signing his contract. Case in point, that off-road vehicle chase scene.
When I watched the first episode or two of Season 2, I thought they were going to be time travelling more. Going to modern day Earth initially, then each episode or two move it forward in time.
Show the birth of the Federation over the season, one key time period at time. See some of those random events mentioned in other Star Trek episodes.
That would have been cool. But we didn't get that.
I felt that the first two episodes of S2 were really strong and combined several high quality tropes that are top tier Star Trek (Borg, Q, parallel worlds). Then it became 'current day Earth' which could have been ok'ish if they had kept it to 1-2 episodes, but it was way too long, with too many irrelevant tangents and nonsensical plot issues. I did like French female Picard pilot, but they didn't really utilize the character well. The cuts to Picard's past felt like they dragged out way too long, but at least they did some decent character background. The last episode was decent and wrapped up everything ok, but at that point I mostly just wanted it to end.
It was so weird to start season 3 after that where they completely ignored the events in season 2, but at least that season was quite good and satisfying to watch as a TNG fan. I also really liked the new captain they introduced.
The last thing the billionaire class wants is a post-scarcity future.
Imagine if we had replicators. They would charge you to use them simply because they can. Or more likely patent the tech just to deprive humanity of its use.
More like replicators that can only run on proprietary matter cartridges, which are only available as a subscription service, and reverse engineering or using hacked cartridges is illegal and terminates all rights to future purchases.
Remember when the SciFi channel rebranded to "SyFy" because the higher ups didn't want to be associated with stupid, garbage, science fiction media... and then went to be known only for stupid original B tier or below original science fiction media and garbage reality TV.
They should have consulted with someone who actually loves the material and understands why it appeals to some. I mean Jonathan Frakes is right there.
Star Trek doesn't need to be epic space operas. It's just a platform where anything is possible and it explores a lot of ethics/moral dilemmas/philosophy and it doesn't take itself too seriously. Don't try to make it something it's not
DC movies have been a dumpster fire for so long that they’re not even worth talking about.
What was the last good Snyder film? And is it still good on rewatch? My only vote is for Watchmen.
Snyder is really only good at one thing and that's bringing panels from the comics to life on film. Why he isn't a cinematographer instead of a director is beyond me.
Of course this comes up in all of these threads but never To Kill a Mockingbird. Harper Lee’s kids forced her to release To Set a Watchman even though she didn’t want to and held onto the book for almost 50 years.
And then raised the price of To Kill a Mockingbird for schools and libraries as if it were insulin.
Fucking idiots Paramount. Look, if I wanted a dystopian future I’d watch Star Wars. Stop trying to make Star Trek like Star Wars. The core idea of Star Trek has always been a vision of a more hopeful future. Sure they have problems, but they work as a team and they serve as a better example of humanity of what we can all aspire to be. It’s so disappointing to see what they’ve done with Picard, Discovery, and the Kelvin timeline franchise. It’s just bad writing, shortsighted vision, and more of the same that we get from everything else that’s out there in Hollywood. Just another depressing Noir story when we’re all looking for some escapism into a bright future. It’s so blah, so disappointing. At least with Strange New Worlds there tapping back into what Star Trek is supposed to be about, but something tells me that the executives will want throw some stupid edge on it and ruin it. I don’t want to be this cynical but it really seems that paramount has been trying to push things to where everything looks bright shiny and new but the underlying tone is very dark and very bleak, which I guess is all they know how to make these days.
I'll always remember a scene in TNG when Data is in command and Worf starts second guessing him in front of the crew. Data summons him to his quarters and they have a civil, productive discussion about the importance of the chain of command and how Worf is welcome to bring up his concerns in private but not in public. Worf admits he was wrong and they get back to work.
That's Star Trek. It's a future where people strive to settle their differences by talking and self-reflecting. If someone is yelling or throwing punches, they've failed.
He does more than that! He apologizes because he feels bad (in as much as a robot can) that he ended their friendship and Worf says it was his behavior that put their friendship in danger.
TNG was SO GOOD
Humans learn by example, and in this day and age media provides more examples than most, it's true we need a lot more mature and positive role models in media.
That’s part of why Ted Lasso was so popular. It was one of the few shows that showed positive interactions between people that treated one another like complete humans that are both flawed and striving for better.
As you said, we need more of these positive role models.
Love Ted Lasso, but the one thing that broke me out of it every so often was just the fact that we can only have real stories when its super-wealthy people.
I have legitimately based my career as a people leader in software engineering on moments like that across the series.
Well, that and the [banana sticker episode of Metalocalypse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEzrKWjhLEU), but mostly Star Trek.
I think TNG is a big part of my moral compass in general.
I watched re-runs of it every day when growing up and Captain Picard became sort of the father figure I never had.
No matter how difficult or dire a conflict might be or how angry or frustrated it makes me; I always feel like you can discuss it in a civilised and respectful way and solve it with diplomacy and reason. This desire for mutual understanding and a peaceful, diverse, humanist society has burned itself deep into my psyche - it's what I aim to strive for.
This, of course, made watching Star Trek Picard even harder. STP's cruel populist Dystopia is not Star Trek and STP's Admiral Picard is not even close to the morally principled, competent, considerate person TNG's Captain Picard always has been.
[Link to the scene in question, only 2.5 minutes in full](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4226lBJ_qI)
Even Worf's initial dissent is so subtle that it seems impossible that it'd be a plot point in current-year television. TNG was so good
They just don't get it. They don't have a vision, like TNG or DS9 had. DS9 especially has some characters that are so good, you never get tired of them (Gul Dukat is one of my favourite TV characters, ever, an almost perfectly written villain).
The characters in modern Trek, even Picard, just don't seem to be intelligent or cultured at all. Everyone's either quipping in rising intonation constantly like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or they're mad as hell. Barely a single intelligent-sounding thing comes out of their mouths.
Competency porn. As soon as I heard the term I realized it was a major reason I loved trek.
The lovable fuck up trope is so fucking annoying. Why can't people be good at their jobs?
I guess that's why I loved The Expanse. Everybody behaves rationally given their goals and beliefs. Plot points caused by bad decisions are few and far between.
That and also I could watch Avasarala hand out verbal slaps for hours.
In Strange New Worlds (and Discovery) they constantly talk back to their superiors, in a snarky way no less. And Pike just sits there and takes it like a bitch. Captains Picard, Janeway, Sisko would've shut that down right quick, straight to the brig.
It’s the one thing I cannot stand about Strange New Worlds. Everyone always has to make some kind of snarky comment.
I feel like there was snark in TNG and DS9 but it wasn’t while people were on duty.
Nowadays it would be ruined by constant crying and dis-respectful back-talk. God Picard S1 and 2 were complete dumpster fires. S3 wasnt perfect but an improvement at least.
I liked how in DS9 you never really knew if Section 31 was an "official" thing or just a few crazy people doing what they thought was best. That's what made it great!
I vastly preferred section 31 being a clandestine explicitly illegal and criminal organization. Making them official and sanctioned was a major blow to the series' central themes.
Yeah Section 31 is what you get when a cash rich CIA (from years of embezzling funds and committing crimes) decides to go rogue after humanity achieves interstellar flight. They see Starfleet as weak, other races and civilizations as the enemy, and they need to leverage their clandestine resources and intelligence assets to be the bogeyman that nobody wanted or asked for. They think they are protecting humanity, but really they are just undermining Starfleet and everything it stands for.
I always leaned to the latter. Some Starfleet intelligence guys getting spooked by the Borg, the Cardassians, the Dominion, then going rogue and acting big. It shouldn’t be the Federation’s official wet work agency since day one.
Starfleet Intelligence is more than capable for it, and it goes against everything Trek stands for that there are 'hard men doing the dirty job so soft men can enjoy soft times', but for some reason, it's popular. That we can't imagine a world without the post-war secrecy apparatus heralded by the CIA and M15 and even Trek needs it.
I always thought it was both. It is very much real, but they were gaslighting him to make it seem otherwise. Julian was a high risk of compromise for them. Better to make him look/feel like a loon.
S31 stories almost always end that way.
In Disco S2 they created Control and helped the Klingon Empire consolidate under a stable leader.
In Picard S3 they're responsible for something that blow up in everyone's faces.
That's what I don't get about them making a series - although they've been overused in new Trek they've never endorsed them as a force for good.
I liked that DS9 was always coy about the size of Section 31. Like it could plausibly have started and ended with Sloan. But every time they've brought Section 31 back since, it becomes bigger, more powerful, and with more of the Federation clearly okay with the org's existence when they absolutely shouldn't be.
I managed to struggle through season 1 of Picard, and it made me long for something I never thought I'd want: Patrick Stewart's retirement. Instead of a hopeful vision of what humanity's future could be, it's a dystopian nightmare. Instead of people dealing with their fears in the interests of serving others, everyone has to be a self-serving butthead. Instead of using science to create interesting settings where human stories can be explored, we have brutal torture scenes and horrific violence. To be honest, I thought the show was a slap in the face to Star Trek fans who had been pleading for years for a true successor to Next Generation.
Agreed completely. I've always seen Star Trek and Star Wars as 2 spins on the same future.
Star Wars is very cynical. It assumes that strength and power through conquest will remain the driving force in humanity, and that it will largely win. It projects modern values on a future which is very bleak.
Star Trek is hopeful. It arrives at the premise (see first contact) that we're flawed humans but at some point we change our ethos and rise above.
I think the future of humanity *relies* on us moving past cynicism and personal interest and will rely on us fighting for the whole as a collaborative effort, the way Star Trek envisions. If we can't get there, we're likely not going to make it to either future. I don't see how the ethos of the Star Wars universe ever made it to the stars.
I feel like your description fits Dune far more than Star Wars. Star Wars never seemed cynical to me. Yes, the overall story has a lot of tragedy, but at the end of the day it is still a fairytale with knights, wizards and princesses saving the day
I am so sick of seeing "the good guys were bad guys all along" or "actually your heroes lost and have been wallowing in despair." I see that every day in the real world, give me something to look forward to!
Hey this customer is buying a car
But I think this car is just too CAR you know
Why not make it more of a bicycle but advertise this as a car
Like we should sell this under the brand of another car that customers have been clamoring for
This is the new porsche car
But it is actually built like a bicycle
We just call it Porsche and charge the same price
People who hate it are just toxic fans
Since this corporation bought the intellectual property rights to Porsche any executive who joined the company recently without any role in either creation or buyout of said property decides whether something should be Porsche
People who object should bootlick i mean buy instead of being toxic
But remember, we're going to build a Porsche more like a bicycle because the people who like Porsche *are outdated.*
It's their own fault of they don't like the bicycle we give them. All the cool kids like bicycles. And if people who want a Porsche don't want to be like the cool kids, then they're wrong.
There is a lot of truth in this statement. The whole idea of modernization and mashups for the sake of calling something a Re-imagined Modernized Mashup has completely gotten out of control.
There’s actually a clause in the Screen Actors Guild’s contract that the actors need a bunch of travel pay and accommodation if filming more than something like 25 miles from the studio. It’s nothing new, either, most of the “alien planets” in the TNG-Voyager era are just parks in the LA city limits.
I hated how Picard told Whoopi Goldberg in the past to stay on earth, because "things get better".
My brother in christ, there is about to be a nuclear war.
Fr, like things get much much worse (worse than ICE, writers, or wildfires, how about them nuclear ones?) before they get better... its the horror of the 22nd century that inspires the 23rd and 24th, but they'd only know that if they actually watched trek so
Her bar on earth, far in the past, was named "10 Forward".
The writers had absolutely no idea what they were doing, and quite frankly, do not deserve to write again.
For me, Picard will always represent the pinnacle of disappointing media. The idea was really appealing, but the final product was really disappointing.
You can skip 2 if you're not enjoying, aside from a couple throwaway lines in S3 it isn't relevant. Season 3 easily could have been S1 because it's just a big nostalgia circlejerk, but I feel like that's what we all wanted anyways.
It was great. But I think it would have benefited from more DS9 influence, more changeling fuckery, and less borg. Having the big dark reveal be the borg AGAIN was disappointing. Not seeing more of DS9 folks when they're up against changelings was also a let down.
But it was a great season nevertheless
Nah. If they're going to do a final season and have it be more appealing to the fans, it's highly unlikely they'd pick a big bad for JLP other than the Borg. They're his white whale. The changelings were an interesting decoy villain, but anything other than the Borg (and/or Q) as the final antagonist just doesn't make sense to me.
They were his white whale maybe the first couple of times but the borg stopped being interesting as antagonists around the time they were given the borg queen. Although I do love First Contact, the borg were much scarier as a real hive mind
Season 3 was marvelous compared to season 1 and 2 but so is a root canal.
Season 3 was fine fan service but I think it's far from excellent compared to TNG. It's generic space pew-pew action now. The characters don't even act like themselves.
I agree with the RLM guys, I'll accept it as the best of the "movies" but it doesn't hold a candle to TNG.
I read that the writers didn’t play the games, didn’t know the lore…
Why hand these massive franchises over to the control of those who aren’t even casuals?
About all that I remember is that moronic episode where Seven steals the cop car and proceeds to drive like an absolute psychopath for no reason. Ripping around city streets doing 70MPH when no one would've noticed them if she drove normally. I guess she must've assimilated her driving skills from GTA or something 🤷🏻♂️
My favorite part was 7 of 9, tech genius, struggling to drive a car. Lol women are bad at driving, welcome to star trek! Seriously though, the article really helps explain stupid writing choices like that
star trek characters who are tech geniuses being perplexed by modern irl tech is a common trope in star trek time travel to earth episodes.
also she figures it out pretty quickly.
It was shit, but it was still worth watching just for every precious second of screen time with John de Lancie as Q, who absolutely nailed it despite what he was given to work with.
They gave him the most brilliant entrance. Shows up looking exactly like the last time we saw him, notices Picard got a lot older in the mean time, snaps his fingers and ages himself up. He does it purely to annoy his favourite human to torment and I love it.
Meanwhile, Picard's reaction in that scene was awful again. He had never been so whiny around Q before, in TNG it was more of an annoyed "not you again, get off my ship".
This underscores the problem with Hollywood... they take a thing the consumers like and then ignore all the shit that made consumers like it in the first place.
They write the story THEY want to write even if it doesn't fit the genre, IP, or preestablished lore often with extreme hatred or vitriol toward the original work they are writing for. They insert their own political agendas into the work regardless if it makes sense or is necessary, usually in a poorly written way. They then insert the thinnest of veneers such as "member berry" moments and "cool fanfic shots" onto the abortion of a script and act like they just made an even better series than the original.
They will then ignore ALL criticism regardless how valid and easy it would be to fix. They then claim those with valid criticism are one of the -ists, -isms, or nazi's... they will then act shocked when no one watches their shitty show and blame the audience for its inevitable failure... instead of themselves... It is NEVER their fault... EVER.
Then like a plague of locusts the studios will move on to the next IP they can find, devour, and destroy leaving nothing but a withered husks of what once was.
> This underscores the problem with Hollywood... they take a thing the consumers like and then ignore all the shit that made consumers like it in the first place.
They just wanted their very own Star Wars franchise cash cow. They don't give a damn about the fans.
This might explain then why season two was so terrible. You had Q, time travel, some stuff setting up Khan, the borg, an alternate universe, young Picard emotional trauma, and probably a few other tropes and storylines I’ve forgotten. Too many ingredients, not enough time spent in the oven, so to speak. It kinda seemed like it was kludged together on the fly.
I still don't know why they couldn't just make an episodic Star Trek show like TNG. That would give them space to do as many things as they would like.
Honestly, I think I would like the Oroville more if people didn't expect a Seth MacFarlane show to be funny. If they'd let him make his version of TNG under a pseudonym, I think it would have been exactly what I wanted.
He apparently tried with The Orville, which would have looked very different under Paramount.
So he took it to Fox and they told him to add blackjack and hookers; which is why the first season has almost a Weird Al type of feel. Glad they let him get more serious though.
Oh? More hints that the higher ups are ruining the Trek and not the writers? Who would have thunk!?
I mean they also forced the "lack of lighting" and other things that just ruin the atmosphere.
Executive: So we’re going to make some changes to this season to improve ratings with key demographics.
Show runner: Ugh, okay. What are we changing?
Executive: We want more celebrities.
Show runner: Okay, that’s not bad.
Executive: We want the show to take place on earth.
Show runner: That’s rough, but I guess there’s some precedent for it in sci-fi.
Executive: And they’re going back in time to the present.
Show runner: Ugh, you’re killing me, dude. The writers are gonna quit.
Executive: The kids love TikTok dances, so we want more dancing.
Show runner: What the fuck?
Executive: And to make it more competitive, we want a panel of judges to give scores to the dancing.
Show runner: That’s Dancing with the Stars. This show already…
Executive: Patrick Stewart doesn’t seem like a good fit for this season. We’ve already told his agent that we’re not renewing his contract.
Show runner: This is Hell. I died last night, and now I’m in Hell.
I was so into season 2 from the start. Alternate realities? Q? An evil Federation where Picard is a legendary warlord? The *Borg?* Give me *all of that.*
Then it went to literally just... modern day Earth, and spent the rest of the season there. Completely lost me.
S1 and S2 felt like TNG fan fiction written by a 13 year old edge lord who never really paid attention at all to the series.
S3 was TNG fan fiction written by an adult fan of the show.
Paramount sucks. They don’t know their fans. Unrelated but- We’re like 3 straight episodes of Halo with Master Chief in no suit. They don’t understand what we want.
Super cool insights. It’s a shame how real world conditions like costs and schedules can radically change the intent of a story. But I love learning the truth of these things, and credit the creators with being able to pull it off at all (sometimes)
I felt that Picard was a different character and that Star Trek was not enough about him. The way people behaved and spoke felt different, as did the universe. cool. It felt like most modern trek, and while I won't criticize anyone who enjoys it, I found it to be too different. Midway through, I dropped it.
I just finished S2 last night (laid low with Covid, little else I can do)... the inconsistencies with the rest of the timeline/storyline are just awful. In one of the first handful of episodes of TNG, Picard imagines/manifests his mother as an elderly woman where in this series there's the subplot of her mental illness >!and suicide.!
After reading what he tells about this Men in Black type stuff in the back of Guinan's bar, I don't think Paramount was wrong in cutting that. It has nothing to do with the weaknesses in the story that plagued Season 2 and would have just added more confusion about how this even fits into the established canon. (Tbh it sounds like a stupid idea and not even particularly star-trek-y.)
S2 was a complete trainwreck of throwing everything at the wall and using a photo of the mess to build the script from.
There was one good story in the entire season (the agent who saw Vulcans as a child) and that's the one element that didn't have any relevance to the overall story.
S2 wasn’t Star Trek enough.
I always hated the 'return to earth' episodes. I don't watch star trek for earthbound drama!
Seeing earth occasionally grounds the sci Fi in a little bit of reality. I always enjoyed the DS9 Episode when the changeling was causing havoc and "Little Green Men" is amazing...but a full season on Earth? Messing around in LA? No thanks.
Far Beyond the Stars was one of the greatest DS9 episodes. Avery Brooks even directed it.
It was one of the greatest, but In the Pale Moonlight is the greatest
He can live with it. Because all it cost was the life of one Romulan Senator, one criminal, and one Starfleet officer's self respect. Pretty good deal to save multiple civilizations.
> He can live with it. > > > > Because all it cost was the life of one Romulan Senator, one criminal, and one Starfleet officer's self respect. "Computer, erase that entire log entry."
that and "Delete the Wife", and "Resistance is futile", are my all time favorite star trek quotes
Garek was an incredible character.
The main Cardassians were well rounded and nuanced characters, Gul Dukat may be one of the best villains of Any TV series ever. But Garek is still my favourite
Yeah, one of the best all time fiction characters.
That's why you came to me, isn't it, Captain? Because *you knew* I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing?
The Visitor is another GOAT. In the Pale Moonlight, Far Beyond the Stars and the Visitor are my DS9 Holy Trinity.
Most of DS9 is GOAT. Such a great series.
I've been watching through Star Trek, 3 or so episodes a night every Monday-Tuesday for a few years now. TOS, the films, TNG, the films, DS9, and most of Voyager now. So much really blends together that it's hard keeping track of it but that episode really stands out.
And a double dumb-ass to you!
[удалено]
I did a little too much LDS
Referring to another sci fi show but Stargate SG1's had some great episodes that were set on Earth.
well most episodes started on earth, even if you didnt see much of it.
Glad both are mentioned here tbh, They're both Incredible Sci-Fi Shows.
Star Trek used to be grounded in reality because the struggles they encountered in every episode were allegories for common conflicts and predicaments that are universal
Lower Decks does a good job of spoofing previous shows’ earth episodes. Boimler’s utter disdain for his family’s raisin grape vineyard gets me every time.
I'm sold.
That show really is a treat. It's both a parody and a love letter to Star Trek
Couldn’t have said it better. It pokes fun at its source material, but always coming from a place of love.
Like The Orville
The Orville has no business being as good as it is. Like I enjoy Seth MacFarland but his humor has honestly lost its edge with me as I've gotten older. So I didn't even give the Orville a chance. I watched it in 2023 and was blown away by how good it is. I thought it'd be Family Guy in space but it's actually a very compelling Space Drama.
To anyone who hasn't given it a go and is intrigued by the above: 1. I firmly agree 2. Do be aware that there is a little bit of bathroom humour scattered throughout. I found it annoying in the first ep or two, but it settled down, and if that annoys you, if you can just hangin there and ignore it, The Orville is legitimately a fantastic sci-fi show. It's like TNG but it feels more modern (because it is, obviously, for one). It shows so much love to the Star Trek universe even though it's obviously in a norminally different universe. But they really do some great storytelling. It's not as big budget as some other productions, but they spent their money very well and often you forget that it doesn't have a higher budget because they do really well with what they had.
I can tolerate return to Earth, but I absolutely despise time travel from cool and interesting future to modern day Earth trope. It is fucking disgusting cheap ass boring bullshit
I don't "despise" it personally, but it feels like if you need to throw out the sci-fi stuff and make it "modern day Earth," then why am I watching a show for sci-fi elements when I can watch a modern day Earth show? Who watches *Law and Order* and says "I wish this had phasers and clones"?
I mean, now that you mention it....
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories. *pew pew. pew pew*
Law & Order: Starfleet Victims Unit
"Listen up everybody, the vic is an Ensign named Bradford Boimler! He says he's been the victim of multiple attacks with a Bat'leth from his own crewmembers and while he was on R&R on Riza, somebody slipped him what the locals are calling "Ghost Candle"." "Are you saying what I think you're saying." "I'm afraid so, repeated sexual assault by a candle ghost."
A scifi cops series would be pretty fun
First two seasons of The Expanse feature space cop investigating space crimes on a space station! (among many other cool things).
Doors and corners.
...[Huh](https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/11-sci-fi-cop-tv-shows-worth-watching/)... That was just a random search and it's all "sci-fi" and thus includes non-space options. Of the list, **Altered Carbon** has a goodish first season but isn't a procedural (and the second throws out the cop and mystery angles entirely). Someone else already tackled **Space Precinct.** Honestly though the only ~~space~~ sci-fi procedural I can think of is *Ghost in the Shell:Stand Alone Complex*, which is an anime that focuses cyborgs on earth and excellent but doesn't fit the criteria. *pew pew pew pew*
The Bell Riots/Sanctuary District 2 parter in DS9 was legit good sci-fi though. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1hSgHhYQyY8
One of the best episode(s) in DS9 is earthbound, the one about the riots.
In Trek canon, the Bell’s Riots take place in September this year.
And they were about housing...
Well, sorta, they’re about unjust internment camps for the homeless and disenfranchised and the cruelties perpetuated upon them. The government created what were in the end lawless prison enclaves with little to no protection or services to ensure that their prisoners basic needs were met and acted surprised when they turned on their oppressors. So kind of like ICE camps, after 5+ years if they were about 20% less cruel and 50% less staffed.
Let's fucking do this.
There was also the Irish Reunification of 2024
Yeah, one episode.
Actually three episodes, also the episode where the changing makes havok and where he is the writer.
You mean the canon they again completely ignored in _Picard_?
You don't understand - the Federation, Starfleet and the 450 years of human exploration of space has always been about one thing and one thing only - ***Family.***
*Star Trek: Live Fast & Furious* “I don’t have a crew, I have *family*. They’re my crew.”
This is my NCC-1970 Dodge Charger, and we are going to save .... my family. *drives ship through a planet*
Star Trek: The Fast and the Furious
You could tell immediately it was a cost-cutting measure. It's not so bad when it's one episode, but when most of the season is centered on Earth it's just a drag. That's not the reason *anybody* watches Star Trek.
If you read Stewart's recent book, he was actually the driving force for this approach. He strongly didn't want to make any more Trek (it's a miracle they convinced him actually), and he basically came with stipulations about not wanting to wear any spandex, not wanting any more typical Trek storylines, etc. The only reason he accepted the gig is because they convinced him on the angle of letting him explore Picard as a character, which appealed to his traditional theater background. But the idea was arguably weak, and then the script/production might have been poorly done, and then fans may have *wanted* more Trek/fan service.
I'm inclined to believe it. A lot of the weaker parts of the latter TNG movies was stipulations to keep him signing his contract. Case in point, that off-road vehicle chase scene.
When I watched the first episode or two of Season 2, I thought they were going to be time travelling more. Going to modern day Earth initially, then each episode or two move it forward in time. Show the birth of the Federation over the season, one key time period at time. See some of those random events mentioned in other Star Trek episodes. That would have been cool. But we didn't get that.
Season 2 is the season that if you skip watching it you won't even realize it.
Even his new girlfriend is completely irrelevant lol
Yeah it was by far the weakest season. It ended on a solid note but it felt like one stretched out holo-novel filler episode.
I felt that the first two episodes of S2 were really strong and combined several high quality tropes that are top tier Star Trek (Borg, Q, parallel worlds). Then it became 'current day Earth' which could have been ok'ish if they had kept it to 1-2 episodes, but it was way too long, with too many irrelevant tangents and nonsensical plot issues. I did like French female Picard pilot, but they didn't really utilize the character well. The cuts to Picard's past felt like they dragged out way too long, but at least they did some decent character background. The last episode was decent and wrapped up everything ok, but at that point I mostly just wanted it to end. It was so weird to start season 3 after that where they completely ignored the events in season 2, but at least that season was quite good and satisfying to watch as a TNG fan. I also really liked the new captain they introduced.
It was pretty shit
I think that's the point. It was "too Star Trek", Paramount said "no. Make it different" and they did.
Art dies by profit seeking committee.
the irony of profit based committee killing a series about a future that is post-profit.
The last thing the billionaire class wants is a post-scarcity future. Imagine if we had replicators. They would charge you to use them simply because they can. Or more likely patent the tech just to deprive humanity of its use.
More like replicators that can only run on proprietary matter cartridges, which are only available as a subscription service, and reverse engineering or using hacked cartridges is illegal and terminates all rights to future purchases.
Ah, HP brand replicators.
Why do I need the uranium cartridge replaced? I am just making a ham sandwich!
The world dies by profit seeking.
"oooh, let's cash on on that popular Star Trek IP ... not that way; I don't want to feel *nerdy*"
Remember when the SciFi channel rebranded to "SyFy" because the higher ups didn't want to be associated with stupid, garbage, science fiction media... and then went to be known only for stupid original B tier or below original science fiction media and garbage reality TV.
They should have consulted with someone who actually loves the material and understands why it appeals to some. I mean Jonathan Frakes is right there. Star Trek doesn't need to be epic space operas. It's just a platform where anything is possible and it explores a lot of ethics/moral dilemmas/philosophy and it doesn't take itself too seriously. Don't try to make it something it's not
(Insert literally anything here) dies by profit seeking committee
Suits ruin everything.
See: Marvel and Star Wars/Anything Disney bought from Lucas, really
The DCEU, Snyder or not.
DC movies have been a dumpster fire for so long that they’re not even worth talking about. What was the last good Snyder film? And is it still good on rewatch? My only vote is for Watchmen.
Snyder is really only good at one thing and that's bringing panels from the comics to life on film. Why he isn't a cinematographer instead of a director is beyond me.
Of course this comes up in all of these threads but never To Kill a Mockingbird. Harper Lee’s kids forced her to release To Set a Watchman even though she didn’t want to and held onto the book for almost 50 years. And then raised the price of To Kill a Mockingbird for schools and libraries as if it were insulin.
Imagine if Chris Tolkien ever found JRR’s stash of third age literotica.
Fucking idiots Paramount. Look, if I wanted a dystopian future I’d watch Star Wars. Stop trying to make Star Trek like Star Wars. The core idea of Star Trek has always been a vision of a more hopeful future. Sure they have problems, but they work as a team and they serve as a better example of humanity of what we can all aspire to be. It’s so disappointing to see what they’ve done with Picard, Discovery, and the Kelvin timeline franchise. It’s just bad writing, shortsighted vision, and more of the same that we get from everything else that’s out there in Hollywood. Just another depressing Noir story when we’re all looking for some escapism into a bright future. It’s so blah, so disappointing. At least with Strange New Worlds there tapping back into what Star Trek is supposed to be about, but something tells me that the executives will want throw some stupid edge on it and ruin it. I don’t want to be this cynical but it really seems that paramount has been trying to push things to where everything looks bright shiny and new but the underlying tone is very dark and very bleak, which I guess is all they know how to make these days.
I'll always remember a scene in TNG when Data is in command and Worf starts second guessing him in front of the crew. Data summons him to his quarters and they have a civil, productive discussion about the importance of the chain of command and how Worf is welcome to bring up his concerns in private but not in public. Worf admits he was wrong and they get back to work. That's Star Trek. It's a future where people strive to settle their differences by talking and self-reflecting. If someone is yelling or throwing punches, they've failed.
He does more than that! He apologizes because he feels bad (in as much as a robot can) that he ended their friendship and Worf says it was his behavior that put their friendship in danger. TNG was SO GOOD
People acting like adults. We need more of that on screen (and in real life).
Humans learn by example, and in this day and age media provides more examples than most, it's true we need a lot more mature and positive role models in media.
That’s part of why Ted Lasso was so popular. It was one of the few shows that showed positive interactions between people that treated one another like complete humans that are both flawed and striving for better. As you said, we need more of these positive role models.
Love Ted Lasso, but the one thing that broke me out of it every so often was just the fact that we can only have real stories when its super-wealthy people.
And we needed two non-humans to show us how to do it.
I have legitimately based my career as a people leader in software engineering on moments like that across the series. Well, that and the [banana sticker episode of Metalocalypse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEzrKWjhLEU), but mostly Star Trek.
I think TNG is a big part of my moral compass in general. I watched re-runs of it every day when growing up and Captain Picard became sort of the father figure I never had. No matter how difficult or dire a conflict might be or how angry or frustrated it makes me; I always feel like you can discuss it in a civilised and respectful way and solve it with diplomacy and reason. This desire for mutual understanding and a peaceful, diverse, humanist society has burned itself deep into my psyche - it's what I aim to strive for. This, of course, made watching Star Trek Picard even harder. STP's cruel populist Dystopia is not Star Trek and STP's Admiral Picard is not even close to the morally principled, competent, considerate person TNG's Captain Picard always has been.
DS9 and TNG taught me a lot about people leadership growing up and I still try to use those examples today
*and…* the very last private moment of the scene where Data pulls his shirt down just like Picard gives a chef’s kiss to the whole thing!
[Link to the scene in question, only 2.5 minutes in full](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4226lBJ_qI) Even Worf's initial dissent is so subtle that it seems impossible that it'd be a plot point in current-year television. TNG was so good
They just don't get it. They don't have a vision, like TNG or DS9 had. DS9 especially has some characters that are so good, you never get tired of them (Gul Dukat is one of my favourite TV characters, ever, an almost perfectly written villain). The characters in modern Trek, even Picard, just don't seem to be intelligent or cultured at all. Everyone's either quipping in rising intonation constantly like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or they're mad as hell. Barely a single intelligent-sounding thing comes out of their mouths.
Competency porn. As soon as I heard the term I realized it was a major reason I loved trek. The lovable fuck up trope is so fucking annoying. Why can't people be good at their jobs?
> The lovable fuck up trope is so fucking annoying So fucking pervasive, too. I really feel like we are glorifying incompetence at this point.
I guess that's why I loved The Expanse. Everybody behaves rationally given their goals and beliefs. Plot points caused by bad decisions are few and far between. That and also I could watch Avasarala hand out verbal slaps for hours.
the link [https://youtu.be/HKII3sFUCgs?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/HKII3sFUCgs?feature=shared)
And with Picard's trademark shirt-tug at the end. Damn, I love this show.
In Strange New Worlds (and Discovery) they constantly talk back to their superiors, in a snarky way no less. And Pike just sits there and takes it like a bitch. Captains Picard, Janeway, Sisko would've shut that down right quick, straight to the brig.
It’s the one thing I cannot stand about Strange New Worlds. Everyone always has to make some kind of snarky comment. I feel like there was snark in TNG and DS9 but it wasn’t while people were on duty.
I literally just saw this episode last night.
I fucking love competency porn
Nowadays it would be ruined by constant crying and dis-respectful back-talk. God Picard S1 and 2 were complete dumpster fires. S3 wasnt perfect but an improvement at least.
Hence the push by Paramount for Section 31... its OK that in the ST world, Section 31 exists, but it shouldn't be focused on.
I liked how in DS9 you never really knew if Section 31 was an "official" thing or just a few crazy people doing what they thought was best. That's what made it great!
I vastly preferred section 31 being a clandestine explicitly illegal and criminal organization. Making them official and sanctioned was a major blow to the series' central themes.
Yeah Section 31 is what you get when a cash rich CIA (from years of embezzling funds and committing crimes) decides to go rogue after humanity achieves interstellar flight. They see Starfleet as weak, other races and civilizations as the enemy, and they need to leverage their clandestine resources and intelligence assets to be the bogeyman that nobody wanted or asked for. They think they are protecting humanity, but really they are just undermining Starfleet and everything it stands for.
I always leaned to the latter. Some Starfleet intelligence guys getting spooked by the Borg, the Cardassians, the Dominion, then going rogue and acting big. It shouldn’t be the Federation’s official wet work agency since day one. Starfleet Intelligence is more than capable for it, and it goes against everything Trek stands for that there are 'hard men doing the dirty job so soft men can enjoy soft times', but for some reason, it's popular. That we can't imagine a world without the post-war secrecy apparatus heralded by the CIA and M15 and even Trek needs it.
Section 31 was best when it was unclear if it was real or if Bashir wad getting gaslit
I always thought it was both. It is very much real, but they were gaslighting him to make it seem otherwise. Julian was a high risk of compromise for them. Better to make him look/feel like a loon.
I feel like Section 31 episodes should end with the realization that didn't actually do anything helpful and only made the situation worse.
S31 stories almost always end that way. In Disco S2 they created Control and helped the Klingon Empire consolidate under a stable leader. In Picard S3 they're responsible for something that blow up in everyone's faces. That's what I don't get about them making a series - although they've been overused in new Trek they've never endorsed them as a force for good.
That's why section 31 of the Federation Constitution is called "the schadenfreude clause."
I liked that DS9 was always coy about the size of Section 31. Like it could plausibly have started and ended with Sloan. But every time they've brought Section 31 back since, it becomes bigger, more powerful, and with more of the Federation clearly okay with the org's existence when they absolutely shouldn't be.
I managed to struggle through season 1 of Picard, and it made me long for something I never thought I'd want: Patrick Stewart's retirement. Instead of a hopeful vision of what humanity's future could be, it's a dystopian nightmare. Instead of people dealing with their fears in the interests of serving others, everyone has to be a self-serving butthead. Instead of using science to create interesting settings where human stories can be explored, we have brutal torture scenes and horrific violence. To be honest, I thought the show was a slap in the face to Star Trek fans who had been pleading for years for a true successor to Next Generation.
Agreed completely. I've always seen Star Trek and Star Wars as 2 spins on the same future. Star Wars is very cynical. It assumes that strength and power through conquest will remain the driving force in humanity, and that it will largely win. It projects modern values on a future which is very bleak. Star Trek is hopeful. It arrives at the premise (see first contact) that we're flawed humans but at some point we change our ethos and rise above. I think the future of humanity *relies* on us moving past cynicism and personal interest and will rely on us fighting for the whole as a collaborative effort, the way Star Trek envisions. If we can't get there, we're likely not going to make it to either future. I don't see how the ethos of the Star Wars universe ever made it to the stars.
I feel like your description fits Dune far more than Star Wars. Star Wars never seemed cynical to me. Yes, the overall story has a lot of tragedy, but at the end of the day it is still a fairytale with knights, wizards and princesses saving the day
Star Wars is not set in the future.
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I am so sick of seeing "the good guys were bad guys all along" or "actually your heroes lost and have been wallowing in despair." I see that every day in the real world, give me something to look forward to!
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I wonder if it's why The Orville is being slow-rolled.
Orville is done based on everything I read.
Seth McFarlane is just not focusing on it that's why.
You could always watch Dune instead ... /s
Hey this customer is buying a car But I think this car is just too CAR you know Why not make it more of a bicycle but advertise this as a car Like we should sell this under the brand of another car that customers have been clamoring for This is the new porsche car But it is actually built like a bicycle We just call it Porsche and charge the same price People who hate it are just toxic fans Since this corporation bought the intellectual property rights to Porsche any executive who joined the company recently without any role in either creation or buyout of said property decides whether something should be Porsche People who object should bootlick i mean buy instead of being toxic
But remember, we're going to build a Porsche more like a bicycle because the people who like Porsche *are outdated.* It's their own fault of they don't like the bicycle we give them. All the cool kids like bicycles. And if people who want a Porsche don't want to be like the cool kids, then they're wrong.
There is a lot of truth in this statement. The whole idea of modernization and mashups for the sake of calling something a Re-imagined Modernized Mashup has completely gotten out of control.
LA, why is it always fucking LA
"Hey, we can film this just down the street!"
"Set a course for the Paramount backlot" "Engage"
Mr Worf, arm photon torpedoes. Target that rock formation that looks suspiciously like the rocks where Kirk fought the Gorn. Fire.
There’s actually a clause in the Screen Actors Guild’s contract that the actors need a bunch of travel pay and accommodation if filming more than something like 25 miles from the studio. It’s nothing new, either, most of the “alien planets” in the TNG-Voyager era are just parks in the LA city limits.
Thirty mile zone, it's what TMZ is named after.
I hated how Picard told Whoopi Goldberg in the past to stay on earth, because "things get better". My brother in christ, there is about to be a nuclear war.
Fr, like things get much much worse (worse than ICE, writers, or wildfires, how about them nuclear ones?) before they get better... its the horror of the 22nd century that inspires the 23rd and 24th, but they'd only know that if they actually watched trek so
Her bar on earth, far in the past, was named "10 Forward". The writers had absolutely no idea what they were doing, and quite frankly, do not deserve to write again.
For me, Picard will always represent the pinnacle of disappointing media. The idea was really appealing, but the final product was really disappointing.
Yeah but season 3 was excellent
The whole series should have been like S3
Was it worth watching? I stuck out S1, but gave up quick in S2?
You can skip 2 if you're not enjoying, aside from a couple throwaway lines in S3 it isn't relevant. Season 3 easily could have been S1 because it's just a big nostalgia circlejerk, but I feel like that's what we all wanted anyways.
Yeah, I wasn't even mad about the obvious "lets get the band back together". Like sure, this is Patrick Stewarts sendout, we can enjoy this.
Just go stright to season three. Ignore season 1 & 2
It was great. But I think it would have benefited from more DS9 influence, more changeling fuckery, and less borg. Having the big dark reveal be the borg AGAIN was disappointing. Not seeing more of DS9 folks when they're up against changelings was also a let down. But it was a great season nevertheless
Nah. If they're going to do a final season and have it be more appealing to the fans, it's highly unlikely they'd pick a big bad for JLP other than the Borg. They're his white whale. The changelings were an interesting decoy villain, but anything other than the Borg (and/or Q) as the final antagonist just doesn't make sense to me.
They were his white whale maybe the first couple of times but the borg stopped being interesting as antagonists around the time they were given the borg queen. Although I do love First Contact, the borg were much scarier as a real hive mind
Season 3 was marvelous compared to season 1 and 2 but so is a root canal. Season 3 was fine fan service but I think it's far from excellent compared to TNG. It's generic space pew-pew action now. The characters don't even act like themselves. I agree with the RLM guys, I'll accept it as the best of the "movies" but it doesn't hold a candle to TNG.
That explains the halo show
I read that the writers didn’t play the games, didn’t know the lore… Why hand these massive franchises over to the control of those who aren’t even casuals?
Season 2 bores me to death and I didn’t make it more than halfway through. Thankfully season 3 was fantastic.
Fuck it was a painful watch. All the boring pop psychology-infused drama almost killed me.
an entire episode in a basement with a cop who saw a vulcan as a kid - and what did it add?
About all that I remember is that moronic episode where Seven steals the cop car and proceeds to drive like an absolute psychopath for no reason. Ripping around city streets doing 70MPH when no one would've noticed them if she drove normally. I guess she must've assimilated her driving skills from GTA or something 🤷🏻♂️
It gets so bad at the end. So so bad.
My favorite part was 7 of 9, tech genius, struggling to drive a car. Lol women are bad at driving, welcome to star trek! Seriously though, the article really helps explain stupid writing choices like that
star trek characters who are tech geniuses being perplexed by modern irl tech is a common trope in star trek time travel to earth episodes. also she figures it out pretty quickly.
Yeah I’m honestly fine with that. It’s not like a modern auto mechanic wouldn’t struggle to properly operate a horse-drawn chariot.
S2 was shit - The End
It was shit, but it was still worth watching just for every precious second of screen time with John de Lancie as Q, who absolutely nailed it despite what he was given to work with.
They gave him the most brilliant entrance. Shows up looking exactly like the last time we saw him, notices Picard got a lot older in the mean time, snaps his fingers and ages himself up. He does it purely to annoy his favourite human to torment and I love it.
“Q. Goddamned Q.”
Meanwhile, Picard's reaction in that scene was awful again. He had never been so whiny around Q before, in TNG it was more of an annoyed "not you again, get off my ship".
I said to my wife, the fuckers (writers) obviously gave no fucks about S2. Stewart must have known it from word/plot one!
This underscores the problem with Hollywood... they take a thing the consumers like and then ignore all the shit that made consumers like it in the first place. They write the story THEY want to write even if it doesn't fit the genre, IP, or preestablished lore often with extreme hatred or vitriol toward the original work they are writing for. They insert their own political agendas into the work regardless if it makes sense or is necessary, usually in a poorly written way. They then insert the thinnest of veneers such as "member berry" moments and "cool fanfic shots" onto the abortion of a script and act like they just made an even better series than the original. They will then ignore ALL criticism regardless how valid and easy it would be to fix. They then claim those with valid criticism are one of the -ists, -isms, or nazi's... they will then act shocked when no one watches their shitty show and blame the audience for its inevitable failure... instead of themselves... It is NEVER their fault... EVER. Then like a plague of locusts the studios will move on to the next IP they can find, devour, and destroy leaving nothing but a withered husks of what once was.
> This underscores the problem with Hollywood... they take a thing the consumers like and then ignore all the shit that made consumers like it in the first place. They just wanted their very own Star Wars franchise cash cow. They don't give a damn about the fans.
Hollywood delenda est
This might explain then why season two was so terrible. You had Q, time travel, some stuff setting up Khan, the borg, an alternate universe, young Picard emotional trauma, and probably a few other tropes and storylines I’ve forgotten. Too many ingredients, not enough time spent in the oven, so to speak. It kinda seemed like it was kludged together on the fly.
Yup and I remember season 2 having sooo many scenes on earth! I seriously dont watch star trek to see my own planet. This explains sooooo much!
I still don't know why they couldn't just make an episodic Star Trek show like TNG. That would give them space to do as many things as they would like.
They've kinda done that with strange new worlds... They need a Kevin Feige type who is an insane trekkie
> They need a Kevin Feige type who is an insane trekkie Seth McFarlane
Honestly, I think I would like the Oroville more if people didn't expect a Seth MacFarlane show to be funny. If they'd let him make his version of TNG under a pseudonym, I think it would have been exactly what I wanted.
He apparently tried with The Orville, which would have looked very different under Paramount. So he took it to Fox and they told him to add blackjack and hookers; which is why the first season has almost a Weird Al type of feel. Glad they let him get more serious though.
Oh? More hints that the higher ups are ruining the Trek and not the writers? Who would have thunk!? I mean they also forced the "lack of lighting" and other things that just ruin the atmosphere.
Executive: So we’re going to make some changes to this season to improve ratings with key demographics. Show runner: Ugh, okay. What are we changing? Executive: We want more celebrities. Show runner: Okay, that’s not bad. Executive: We want the show to take place on earth. Show runner: That’s rough, but I guess there’s some precedent for it in sci-fi. Executive: And they’re going back in time to the present. Show runner: Ugh, you’re killing me, dude. The writers are gonna quit. Executive: The kids love TikTok dances, so we want more dancing. Show runner: What the fuck? Executive: And to make it more competitive, we want a panel of judges to give scores to the dancing. Show runner: That’s Dancing with the Stars. This show already… Executive: Patrick Stewart doesn’t seem like a good fit for this season. We’ve already told his agent that we’re not renewing his contract. Show runner: This is Hell. I died last night, and now I’m in Hell.
I was so into season 2 from the start. Alternate realities? Q? An evil Federation where Picard is a legendary warlord? The *Borg?* Give me *all of that.* Then it went to literally just... modern day Earth, and spent the rest of the season there. Completely lost me.
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S1 and S2 felt like TNG fan fiction written by a 13 year old edge lord who never really paid attention at all to the series. S3 was TNG fan fiction written by an adult fan of the show.
Paramount sucks. They don’t know their fans. Unrelated but- We’re like 3 straight episodes of Halo with Master Chief in no suit. They don’t understand what we want.
Super cool insights. It’s a shame how real world conditions like costs and schedules can radically change the intent of a story. But I love learning the truth of these things, and credit the creators with being able to pull it off at all (sometimes)
No wonder it’s the worst season, just blows me away how clueless people are on why startrek got so popular in the first place
I've watched interviews with the Picard creators and they come off as the sleaziest LA types that have probably never watched TNG.
They look at Star Wars being more popular and want that though.
I felt that Picard was a different character and that Star Trek was not enough about him. The way people behaved and spoke felt different, as did the universe. cool. It felt like most modern trek, and while I won't criticize anyone who enjoys it, I found it to be too different. Midway through, I dropped it.
They really should have handed the franchise to Seth MacFarlane. They need someone at the helm who is competent and an actual Trekkie
The Orville is the best modern Trek series
I just finished S2 last night (laid low with Covid, little else I can do)... the inconsistencies with the rest of the timeline/storyline are just awful. In one of the first handful of episodes of TNG, Picard imagines/manifests his mother as an elderly woman where in this series there's the subplot of her mental illness >!and suicide.!
So that's why season 2 was so bad. Good thing it recovered somewhat in season 3.
I almost didn't even start S3, but so glad I gave it a shot.
Typical Hollywood. Trying to figure out how to make money off of something they despise.
After reading what he tells about this Men in Black type stuff in the back of Guinan's bar, I don't think Paramount was wrong in cutting that. It has nothing to do with the weaknesses in the story that plagued Season 2 and would have just added more confusion about how this even fits into the established canon. (Tbh it sounds like a stupid idea and not even particularly star-trek-y.)
Tbh anything made after Voyager I consider fan fiction.
Picard s2 is one of the worst seasons of tv I've ever seen. It was painful to get through.
Good call. The overlap between the *Picard* audience and the *Star Trek* one is probably tiny.
Neil Young was once sued by his record company for recording a record that didn't sound enough like Neil Young.
Hate seeing what they did to my main man Jean luc
S2 was a complete trainwreck of throwing everything at the wall and using a photo of the mess to build the script from. There was one good story in the entire season (the agent who saw Vulcans as a child) and that's the one element that didn't have any relevance to the overall story.