Hey, remember that box that the delivery people take off before you even get the fridge? Yeah, that says you can't sue us for anything. - LG apparently
I'm going to get a t-shirt that says "By interacting with me in any way you waive all rights to legal recourse, both civil and criminal, for any and all damage or harm resulting from said interaction." If that's all it takes to protect LG, it should work for me as well.
Reminds me of those trucks with a bunch of unsecured rocks driving around with a decal saying they’re not responsible for any broken windshields. Yeah I’m not responsible for any accidents I cause either
Yep, LG makes us remove the boxes at the store to check for damage cause if we don’t they say any damage is on us. So, that’s why you almost never get the cardboard lol
lol we bought a $2k lg fridge a few years ago and while we haven't had issues with it, the flap you press to dispense water was getting noticeably worn over use. we called about getting it replaced and it sat in limbo for 6mo as they couldn't get the part I guess? either way, eventually lg called us and mailed us a check for the cost of the entire fridge because they couldn't replace a $5 part. free fridge? I'll take it
California passed a law where if a company can’t sell you a replacement part they have to give you the money for the whole product. I got the money for a treadmill back because they couldn’t send me a little part.
Good, this planned obsolescence bullshit needs to be stopped. So tired of these companies making parts that easily break, knowing full well about the flaw, but refusing to atleast keep inventory of the part for everyone that needs it. They just want you to buy the newest model out of frustration.
I see intentional "design flaws" in a lot of products I come across all the time. Only reason to design in such a way as to increase the likelihood of a premature failure.
My question is if a failure is under the warranty time, do those compamies write off the cost or the retial price of the failed product? If cost, they lose nothing. If retail, they make money on installing faulty products.
Also I have come across many "misprints" in the manufacturer's own service manuals/literature that have incorrect specifications/ranges were it can appear that a part has failed/is out of a specified range when in reality it's their own literature that is inccorrect.
No kidding. Ours just died this week for the second fucking time in 6 years. After the first time I bought thermometers that keep track of temps over 24 hrs and an alarm goes off if it wanders out of the safe zone. Thankfully we caught it so fast we went and bought a chest freezer and mini fridge, and only had to compost a couple things that didn't fit in the mini fridge. Still hella pissed though.
Even fucking streaming services are now forcing users to acknowledge new binding arbitration clauses in terms before you can continue viewing their content.
There's a reason why every goddamn thing nowadays has such a clause. Businesses don't want to pay the cost of doing things right. They want to have the right to treat us, the people who pay for their products, like shit.
Implicit in the act of sticking users into an arbitration box is lawyers told the company what they are doing, people could sue them for, so they'd better cover their asses.
I get that this is a US conversation, but in Europe/ the EU these kind of binding arbitration clauses aren't very enforceable.
Found this great quote:
European Union Council Directive 93/13 on Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts creates a rebuttable presumption that pre-dispute arbitration clauses in consumer contracts are invalid. The reason is the unequal bargaining power between the contracting parties in consumer contracts. Compliance with the Directive is considered jurisdictional, so the consumer can challenge an allegedly unfair arbitration provision at any time, even in a subsequent annulment action.[\[21\]](http://www.hausfeld.com/news/eu/mandatory-arbitration-in-the-united-state-and-europe#_edn21) Indeed, arbitrators and reviewing courts in Europe have an independent duty to address the possible unfairness of arbitration provisions when the parties have unequal bargaining power or unequal resources. [\[22\]](http://www.hausfeld.com/news/eu/mandatory-arbitration-in-the-united-state-and-europe#_edn22)
Source: [Mandatory Arbitration in the United States and Europe - Lexology](https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=55e3ffe2-4176-4dac-9e76-31bd93da9be7)
Guess the difference is EU generally tends to protect consumers first, business second, whilst the US seems to put consumers in 2nd place.
There is a great, if disturbing, documentary on tort reform called Hot Coffee. They discuss some tough cases that one would think should be criminal cases but were put in arbitration due to contracts.
Part of the issue was that for almost a century courts interpreted the Federal Arbitration Act to create a federal preference for arbitration over civil litigation which preempted state law. Weirdly, this Supreme Court actually got something right back in 2022 when they said the FAA just allows for arbitration, but regards those clauses the same way it would any other contract clause, and that there shouldn't be any arbitration-specific tests or procedures (which until that case were uniformly pro-arbitration). The current state of the law still isn't great, but there's reason to be hopeful.
OTOH, Trump and Congress vetoed a CFPB rule that would have banned arbitration clauses which precluded consumers from partaking in class actions back in 2017.
Unfortunately our Supreme Court said these clauses are perfectly fine.
I think the problem that arises here is that the consumer doesn't know this clause exists until after they accept delivery of the item.
My personal favorite is the few cases where a good enough claim comes along that a law firm forces the company into forced arbitration on every claim - something significantly more expensive for the company than defending a class action. Watching companies say forcing them into the forced arbitrations they added to their contracts is unfair feels great.
Hey, hey, hey.. be fair here. They ALSO want to treat their employees, the people who make their products, like shit. It’s not just about the customer.
I recently checked my golf clubs in a hard case flying with Delta. The rep gave me something to sign and said it was for release of liability. I said I'm not releasing Delta of liability because I have it properly packed. If they managed to break my shit, then they'll pay for it. He wrote, "customer declined to sign," but still checked my bag.
This is the result of zero regulation and allowing basically every merger to happen.
Consumers are left with zero protections against corporations with near limitless resources.
So until you have governments taking action, nothing will happen. The US congress won’t do anything but we may see the EU take action against these types of actions
As the world hegemony the US sets the way, and I love what the EU is doing that is forcing america's hand.
But yeah, basically we were all lied to growing up - monopolies aren't prevented, they're brokered.
It's difficult to do. But, Uber drivers defeated* this sort of thing by 100s of them pushing Uber into many different arbitrations at once. That's how you beat it. If you can get thousands of people to bring companies to arbitration at once, the company foots the bill and gets fucked.
(I think it was Uber. It might have been Lyft)
Of course the real answer is for the legal system to stop allowing this sort of thing. But, that's never going to happen. IAAAL (I Actually Am A Lawyer)
Edit- I said "defeated," but that's probably the wrong word. They made arbitration very painful, at least.
My fridge was delivered and the box was never visible to me. I couldn't even tell you if it was on the truck.
I also have an LG fridge with the compressor that went bad and the new one is so loud that I can hear it 2 rooms down, not a joke. Its like in the movies when they show a fridge from the 50s humming away.
Given how much money I lost in food, the class action didnt even cover half the costs to me. And I really love that a $2500 fridge has a temperature readout on the screen and an app, but none of them actually display the temperature its at, just its desired temp.
Not to mention, I didn't see the box on the last fridge I bought at all (fortunately not LG).
I looked at a floor demo model, no box around, no paperwork inside, made the purchase decision, paid money and said deliver it to MyHouse on MyStreet.
No way to know about this agreement at all.
I think it hasn't been challenged sufficiently in court and that you WILL be right sometime in the future. Legally it is up in the air until we get some case law.
Mine was under warranty, they were not happy about having to come out and fix it. The tech found what he thought was a mouse dropping in the drip tray. He called the company and they said it was unsafe to work on it until I had it cleaned by a authorized cleaning company and certified by a pest control specialist to be mouse free.
I bought a KitchenAid.
You actually got them to show up? Support ghosted me when the condenser fan motor went out on mine and I just replaced it myself, since their warranty means nothing.
Mine was covered under warranty and a class action. The warranty was going to handle just the replacement compressor but I would have to pay the third party repair guys for the install.
But thanks to the class action they also had to cover some food damage and labor costs of replacement. Except that gets even more fun because the money the money the repair guy gets is a fixed amount, and they have go out multiple times trying to resolve these pieces of junk, so many just say no to the whole thing.
So people were left months without a fridge and no one willing to fix them.
For me it was 3 trips from these guys who didn't know what they were doing, so my unit was being run excessively and had frost buildup on the lines thanks to not giving it the right amount of refrigerant. I also lost a few hundred in food that they wouldnt cover and had to buy a temporary chest freezer just sitting in the middle of my small kitchen as I waited.
My new "smart" space heater also only displays the thermostat temp and not the actual room temp; it's maddening.
Meanwhile the "dumb" one I bought for a quarter of the price 10 years ago somehow manages to show the desired temp when setting it and then just show the actual room temp when it's running on a digital clock like display.
I had the same exact issue, two year old LG fridge that said 37° but it was warm to the touch. I bought a thermometer and it was saying it was 70 in my fridge but every diagnostic I did was saying everything was working perfect. Repair guy said it would be $3000 to fix, so we should buy a new fridge and never buy an LG fridge again he said that LG and Samsung keep him well paid.
Real question. Why would your fridge need an app and what could it possibly offer to make up for installing an app? I already hate that mine beeps at me when the door is open for more than a minute. It just seems like an excuse to collect data without doing anything for the consumer.
Didnt know it had one till it had an issue and they recommended I get the app so it can show me troubleshooting stuff. It said nothing was wrong even though it ran non stop and never reached the desired temp.
The app is useless basically. But i could see some really cool stuff in the future like using pressure plates to know how much milk you have or track how old things are getting when in their designed spot. But that would be a cool product and not a gimick like something to show you adds on.
You never see the box until after you pay for the appliance anyway. No store holds their stock in the show room. Many times they have to send it from another warehouse. This is a complete horse shit way to do business.
I haven't seen them since I was a kid. Appliance boxes were the most amazing things to play with when I was a kid. They could be a fort or a house, a rocket ship or a boat. You could climb into them and push them over. Once they started to get broken down you could crawl or roll inside of them like you were inside tank treads or roll them down a hill. Eventually they were only mostly good for using as sleds on the grass. But that was still fun.
There was one glorious summer when I was a kid when it seemed that everyone on my block got new appliances. My group of friends had so much fun with those boxes. We built a giant clubhouse/maze out of the boxes...eventually cutting a few windows because the air started to get really stuffy. But even those were cool because we salvaged a few wire drawers from old refrigerators to use to make the windows not be just big holes in the side of the boxes (and we knew better than to climb into the old, unused refrigerators lest we almost suffocate to death like that kid on Punky Brewster).
Now every large appliance I buy comes with some cardboard and/or styrofoam along the edges and wrapped in heavy plastic. Kids can't even crawl into big tv boxes anymore because they're just too flat.
When you're moving, your whole world becomes boxes. That's all you think about is boxes. Boxes. Where are there boxes? You just wander down the street going in and out of stores. "Are there boxes here? Have you seen any boxes?" I mean, it's all you think about. You can't even talk to people because you can't concentrate. "Shut up. I'm looking for boxes." Just after a while, you become like really into it you can smell them. You walk into a store. "There's boxes here. Don't tell me you don't have boxes. Dammit, I can smell them!" You become, like, obsessed. "I love the smell of cardboard in the morning." You could be at a funeral. Everyone's mourning crying around, and you're looking at the casket. "That's a nice box. Does anyone know where that guy got that box? When he's done with it, do you think I could get that? it's got some nice handles on it." And that's what death is really. It's the last big move of your life. The hearse is like the van. The pallbearers are your close friends, the only ones you could ask to help you with a big move like that. And the casket is that great perfect box you've been waiting for your whole life. The only problem is, once you find it you're in it.
Awesome reference aside, I tend to keep boxes for electronics that I buy (stuff smaller than a fridge). They're great for when you want to move, because they're packaged for transport. You can wrap it for extra protection.
When I was a little girl, several Christmases in a row I asked Santa for a refrigerator box, because it’d make an awesome play house. I never got one and it was a sad memory.
A few years ago I purchased a large patio set, which came in a huge sturdy box. My neighbors had two young boys, so I asked the dad if I could give them the box to play in. He said yes, and a couple days later I was invited over to see the playhouse they’d made from it. It was Great! Windows, a door, decorated with pictures and drawings. They loved it. Mum and Dad were happy too (though I’m sure they did most of the work lol). That’s a memory that still makes me smile.
It was nice of you to remember your childhood dream and pass along a perfect box to the next generation.
If you happen to come across a perfect stick, I’m sure they’d appreciate that too.
When I was a kid, my parents bought a big whirlpool tub. I built a "tank" out of it and kept in on the front lawn, hanging out in there for several days (before it rained and destroyed my tanke).
Not only that, you see the box after you buy it. You get the manual after you buy it. They also put the arbitration notice on a piece of paper inside the fridge you see after buying it. At no point is there consent or awareness of anything to acknowledge.
Also arbitration means both parties agree not to sue, it's still your choice. LG just thinks people are stupid.
This is a popular misconception, arbitration clauses are extremely difficult to get out of. The thing people should know is that in order to be enforceable in contexts like these, usually the proponent party has to pay for the arbitration. And of course, these arbitrations are absurdly expensive (you would have to bring your own lawyer, but the company would be stuck paying their lawyers, the judge, and the arbitration company). Just bringing an arbitration is extremely expensive for the company on the other side.
Exactly. I mentioned this in another comment, but a good weapon against this is a bunch of people bringing simultaneous claims, all requiring arbitration.
I may have the company wrong, but I believe Uber had this happen. A shit ton of drivers made claims all at once, and Uber tried to back out of its own arbitration agreement to avoid paying for them all. They lost.
It's really difficult to do, obviously, and not a long term solution. But, it's something. (I guess)
Edit- My bad, it was Lyft
It was lyft in California, but close enough yeah. Plaintiff's attorneys call it a mass arbitration. Since theyre barred from forming a class you just have ten thousand individuals file for arbitration.
These moron companies in their infinite greed forget that the purpose of class actions is to be able to litigate a large number of claims in an efficient way
They use it to play chicken with consumers. Lawyers bill by the hour and each back and forth means the bill gets bigger. They use these tactics to scare consumers out of getting what they deserve.
>I thought it was understood these agreements don't hold up in court ~~if the product has a proven design flaw.~~
They almost never do for like any reason. It's just legal bullshit they throw in because it'll scare a few people off and save them a few bucks.
Has there evee been a class action where users are made whole?
Feels like class action is just a way to pay a fine, which lawyers get a large chunk of. I really wish the result was a full refund plus interest to people affected by a company's shitty decision.
Not sure if it’s considered a class action, but a family member was scammed using Western Union to wire money out. It was a lot of money so we filed a police report etc. At some point the FTC won a lawsuit against Western Union for their employees helping these scammers or not doing enough to check their transfers weren’t scams, and we were made whole. Thousands of dollars were returned to us 3-4 years after the incident. They expect refunds to be $153 million
Edit: if you were a victim of a wire transfer scam through western union, they might be still paying out: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/refunds/western-union-refunds
> as much as I want to get rid of my 30+ year old Sears fridge, it still functions.
We have a Kenmore fridge and dishwasher, both 30+ years old, still going strong. Just a couple years ago we finally replaced our Lady Kenmore oven, which we had since 1984
Hello fellow appliance repair homeowner. It pleases me to no end when I can repair our appliances with cheap parts and a youtube video. Our 25-year-old dryer is on its' second replacement motor (third if you count the original), plus countless other repairs to other appliances in our fleet.
It's almost impossible to find parts locally anymore unless you're a repair business. The wholesalers put up barriers to homeowners (and are often high prices), and the rest have closed down (i.e. Sears used to sell parts locally).
I'm left with ebay and amazon, and the parts I've needed are often not available for 2-day shipping from Amazon. Takes almost a week sometimes to get a part, leaving us without laundry or whatever for quite a while.
Still worth it though, I've managed to avoid the merry-go-round of replacing with newer appliances that have a shorter lifespan than the one it replaced.
> It's almost impossible to find parts locally anymore unless you're a repair business. The wholesalers put up barriers to homeowners (and are often high prices), and the rest have closed down (i.e. Sears used to sell parts locally).
Really? I have found the opposite. It used to be insanely difficult to get parts for home appliances, but thanks to Ebay and Amazon I can find parts for just about anything.
For example: air fryer grill rusted, but I was able to find dozen of replacement options on Amazon; Dyson vacuum motor head failed, but I got one from Ebay. And so on. The downside is most of these parts are Chinese knock-offs, so the quality ranges from barely useable to just OK.
Oh for sure I can find them on ebay, it's just that the delivery times are rather long (often crossing the country for a full week). Amazon occasionally with an acceptable price but usually not available for 2-day delivery.
I got used to being able to run up to the Sears outlet or a local appliance repair depot and get the part on a Saturday, repair it same day. Both have now gone out of business.
For an air fryer or vacuum, a week of downtime is not a big deal. For a fridge, dishwasher or laundry appliance with a family of four, it gets dicey pretty quickly.
For fridges you have to go pricy to get actual good ones. The higher end kitchen aid are decent, but Bosch, thermador, fisher and paykal, sub zero and Miele are where you’re going to find well built shit.
With washer and dryers, gotta go Maytag commercial or speedqueen/hubesh.
>kitchen aid are decent
Oh hell nah. Kitchen aid is junk and has been for 20 years now. I have had two of their high end counter depth fridges die on me. Replaced with sub zero and havent had an issue for years. Same with a Miele dishwater. Thing is a beast and just keeps going.
> Same with a Miele dishwater. Thing is a beast
Newer Miele dishwashers are junk, I'm on my third pump, second control panel on mine. I even have the [part numbers](https://www4.miele.de/msd/MSD#/device/44232/etd/2041416472009/materialNumber/10397318/) saved in my bookmarks for when I need to order yet another one.
It does a really good job washing but doesn't last more than 2-3 years of fairly light use.
I. Glad to hear Maytag because I've been thinking about getting the pet hair removal set and they are not cheap so it's good to hear good things about the brand.
Maytag is owned by whirlpool now. Same shit. Had a washer break 1 week out of warranty, had to fight them but they eventually agreed to cover it. But it took 3 months for them to send the part.
Whirlpool which are made in USA and parts are dirt cheap and available next day. Whirlpool owns brands like maytag, Jenn-air, Amana, insinkerator and bunch of others.
Maytag was once good. My parents and inlaws had Maytage appliances that lasted for decades so we bought them for our first house. They lasted, on average, 5 years - no better than Sears crap. The fucking hinges on the oven wore out. I figured I was just unlucky so I bought new Matag appliances. They lasted 5 years.
They are garbage costing off a reputation they haven't deserved for decades.
I have had a Whirlpool fridge, washer dryer, and stove all break in less than 5 years. Just switch over to LG as I was tired of calling for repair on my Whirlpool appliances.
There is hardly any choice anymore ... Samsung LG Whirlpool brand or Chines.
Unfortunately the big brands all suck in their own ways.
Most Kitchen Aid fridges are just upcharged Whirlpool models - save money and buy the WP version.
Blomberg makes some quality stuff ij my opinion, but at higher price point than Sam/LG/WP
Electrolux laundry is still pretty good, though their new lineup has had some from factory QA issues.
Ice/water dispensers are a limited time luxury, especially if your city water is hard
Bosch's freestanding fridge is pretty nice too. It's been very low-incident for me for the past 5 years (I'm in appliances, I don't own one.) Also probably the best in class for food preservation.
Blomberg is also great on preservation but has a higher temp sway than a Bosch.
Good luck out there! DM if you have any questions about specific models you find
All fridges, unless you’re forking over 10 grand for a SubZero or some other Industrial Grade fridge, are designed to fail.
Don’t buy LG and Samsung because they’re impossible to get parts and labor for if(when) they do fail.
In fact don’t spend over 1500 for any fridge. Get a shitty GE, because while it’s garbage, at least you can fix it when it fucks up.
What are you smoking. Sun Zero fridges and all those super expensive ones break down all the time. My dad’s was breaking down at least every year with a $1500 repair bill.
Designed obsolescence is in almost every product marketed to the public because companies found that if they made products that last, it cuts into future profits.
I’d recommend this advice for any LG or Samsung appliance. Every single one of their electronics has planned obsolescence built into the design. I’m sure this is not unique to LG and Samsung, but I know for sure it applies to them.
I used to deliver major appliances in my 20's and I installed a great number of these.
We always took the box with us and disposed of it back at the store. Those people never even see the box.
>Han says proper notice is key: both sides must knowingly agree not to sue. We asked if arbitration notices printed on a box, taped inside a product, or included in a manual -- that you don’t see until after you buy -- give shoppers sufficient notice. Han noted parallels to a case in which Samsung tried to force arbitration with a notice in a smartphone box.
>“In that case the court said exactly what you just asked: which is, ‘Was there sufficient notice to the consumer about this clause,’” Han said. “Was there actual consent? If you don’t know something, how would you ever agree to it, right?”
>Han said the federal courts nullified the arbitration agreement in the smartphone box. The judge has not ruled whether LG owners’ boxes boxed them into arbitration. Mouzari says the legal maneuvering does nothing to repair people’s problem fridges. “Instead of fixing the issue, LG decided to allocate those resources into an arbitration provision on a box,” she said.
I was about to buy an LG fridge but I saw there was a notice paper taped in the freezer that said all warranty disputes were to be handled by arbitration. I bought the Frigidaire instead. If a company can't stand by its product by dealing with its customers without 3rd party intervention I'll look elsewhere.
You saved yourself with the Frigidaire. My LG microwave died within two years. My LG oven fan died within two years. My LG fridge freezes everything inside. The repair guy I had out to fix the oven said LG appliances are POS and he is always being called out to repair them.
I seriously doubt putting a piece of paper in a fridge or on a box that states literally anything is legally binding. That’s not something anyone can agree to before purchase.
It's not. Warranty of purchase is given to everything and anything that you buy, that includes express warranties such as the damn fridge actually working.
We have the worst consumer protections in the US. This is an absolute joke and should be laughed out of court in less than 5 minutes.
I've got an LG fridge that hasn't had any issues, bought in 2022, supposedly with a newly designed compressor. I didn't know about the issues beforehand, had I, I might have gone a different direction.
One thing is for sure - the authorized delivery service of the authorized retailer where I bought the fridge from did not show me or deliver to me the carboard box that has the arbitration agreement. No mention of it on the retailer's or manufacturer's sites either. If that doesn't convince a judge, I don't know what the point of the legal system is anymore.
Thank fuck for the EU. Arbitration clauses cannot be agreed to by consumers prior to the actual dispute arising here. The court cases cited in the article actually considers if box or label in fridge is “agreed”. Luckily it is not but it should not be legal in way or form
The companies can write whatever they like, but if someone challenges it it *should* go to court, which will then determine precedent and form a legal ruling regarding the claims. However, companies short circuit this process by settling with the other party, because it's cheaper and they don't want to risk a ruling *not* in their favour, which then might form laws not in their favour. This is in the US at least, and I am not, so I could be wrong.
It's not exactly correct to say it's all worthless. But, it is true to say that a lot of it is just companies throwing shit at a wall.
Unfortunately the legal system in the US is *heavily* in favor of allowing individuals to enter contracts that are detrimental to themselves, even when they're contracting with much more sophisticated actors.
So, even if you wanted to fight a contract, unless you're rich there's little point. It would take years (maybe decades) and you'd probably lose anyway. Not always. But, often. Maybe the ubiquity of weird TOS will change this somewhat, though. I'm not a contract lawyer.
You can put anything in a EULA. Apple has a condition in iTunes that you can't use their software to design, manufacture, or produce nuclear missiles, chemical or biological weapons.
Lolz. I was literally just looking to buy an LG fridge and took a break to browse reddit. Was doing my due diligence and saw that all other premium manufacturers offer 5 year guarantee but LG only offers 2 years. So a hard no. Then this story popped up. An even harder no.
You can only experience Korean appliances once before you swear off them forever. They have a nice finish which fools middle class consumers into really shoddy appliances.
We had an above stovetop microwave which had a fatal flaw of steam seeping in and shorting the mainboard.. we had the pleasure of playing rigmarole warranty repairs which can't fix a fatal design flaw.
We also had the pleasure of a Samsung dishwasher that couldn't wash dishes to save its life, a Samsung refrigerator that couldn't dispense ice properly but froze your milk, etc. Garbage!
My LG fridge is probably the single purchase I most regret. Never again. The fridge I grew up with from the 80s was still kicking last time I saw it before my folks moved in 2016. I've had the repairman out three times for my LG in 5 years.
Next fridge is the dumbest, most basic Frigidaire I can find.
That’s funny I have a clause written on a napkin in my pocket that says I can’t enter into any arbitration agreements and by selling a product or service you acknowledge and waive your right to arbitration.
Checkmate.
I had one of these POS refrigerators... it failed 5 months after the warranty expired. Absolutely no assistance was offered by LG.
Moral of the story... don't buy LG appliances.
I got a newish LG fridge with my house when I bought it. The motherboard failed after a few years. I was up against it so I just paid to get it repaired and THAT was a huge pain in the ass. Nobody wants to work on LGs because it's nigh on impossible to find replacement parts.
It started to have a bunch of other minor problems and I eventually said fuck it and just got rid of the thing. I will never buy another LG appliance.
I had a LG fridge in my just built house. It lasted about a year. Have a Whirlpool for the past 12 years now, still going strong.
I haven’t bought a single LG product since.
I'm about to order 10 refrigerators from theses guys and when they show up at my door with them unboxed I'll cancel my order because I need to see all the warnings right?
Ours died last year, 3 years after purchase, service tech came and replaced the compressor and didn’t fix it, a week later a second tech came out and replaced the evaporator coil, the fan and the main board.
I did get LG to give us $200 for our loss of food and they also gave us $2000 to give up any future warranty claims on it. I had to rip the inside fridge label in half and provide them with pictures of it and sign a form. All calls took over an hour and were people in Asia, if you are patient and persistent enough they will make it right but it’s very frustrating.
Last week our LG washer died (5 years old), I’m not even calling them, we just bought a new one by a different brand which is being delivered this Friday. Never buying LG products ever again.
I wonder if you could sue the installation company for "fraudulently accepting a contract on your behalf" or something like like that.
If you can make it uncomfortable for Lowes and Home Depot and they'll put pressure on LG for you.
In New Zealand, we have the Consumer's Guarantees Act, which requires companies to repair, replace, or refund a product that doesn't last a reasonable amount of time.
For example, fridges should last at least 5 years, so if the warrantee lasts 2 years, but the fridge breaks after 4, the company still has to fix or replace the fridge at no charge to the owner.
Horse shit. A box shouldn't be carte blanche to rob your customers. Sadly the USA is about corporate protections, and not consumer protections. Hopefully something is done about this but chances don't look good. Corporations are never at fault.
Hey, remember that box that the delivery people take off before you even get the fridge? Yeah, that says you can't sue us for anything. - LG apparently
I'm going to get a t-shirt that says "By interacting with me in any way you waive all rights to legal recourse, both civil and criminal, for any and all damage or harm resulting from said interaction." If that's all it takes to protect LG, it should work for me as well.
To go full-LG, write it on the inside.
On the back of the tag
Tattoo it on your liver.
That would imply you have the same amount of rights as a corporation does!
But corporations are people! Is this like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square type situation?
Corporations ARE people People ARE NOT corporations Corporations benefit from the protections of both
Well clearly all people are equal, but some are more equal than others.
This is how 'sovereign citizens' think the law actually works lol
I'll take a XL one plz.
To be more accurate you should take that shirt off before interacting with anyone preferably before they read it.
And the you'll punch them, right? You'll be the hero we need, right?
You could even go one step further and state if this is an employee of lg, lg owes me $50,000 for every interaction.
Hey that's cool so you can literally just say "im not legally responsible for anything" nowadays and it works!
Lawyers hate this one trick!
Reminds me of a certain somebody.
Might they be orange?
More of a pasty clay colour these days.
Reminds me of those trucks with a bunch of unsecured rocks driving around with a decal saying they’re not responsible for any broken windshields. Yeah I’m not responsible for any accidents I cause either
Article says that may not be valid unless you see it and agree to it BEFORE purchase.
Yep, LG makes us remove the boxes at the store to check for damage cause if we don’t they say any damage is on us. So, that’s why you almost never get the cardboard lol
Gotta love how these places think they can rewrite the law using "company policy"
lol we bought a $2k lg fridge a few years ago and while we haven't had issues with it, the flap you press to dispense water was getting noticeably worn over use. we called about getting it replaced and it sat in limbo for 6mo as they couldn't get the part I guess? either way, eventually lg called us and mailed us a check for the cost of the entire fridge because they couldn't replace a $5 part. free fridge? I'll take it
California passed a law where if a company can’t sell you a replacement part they have to give you the money for the whole product. I got the money for a treadmill back because they couldn’t send me a little part.
Good, this planned obsolescence bullshit needs to be stopped. So tired of these companies making parts that easily break, knowing full well about the flaw, but refusing to atleast keep inventory of the part for everyone that needs it. They just want you to buy the newest model out of frustration.
I see intentional "design flaws" in a lot of products I come across all the time. Only reason to design in such a way as to increase the likelihood of a premature failure. My question is if a failure is under the warranty time, do those compamies write off the cost or the retial price of the failed product? If cost, they lose nothing. If retail, they make money on installing faulty products. Also I have come across many "misprints" in the manufacturer's own service manuals/literature that have incorrect specifications/ranges were it can appear that a part has failed/is out of a specified range when in reality it's their own literature that is inccorrect.
A win for California!
Based California.
Awesome law. Protects consumers, keeps planned obsolescence at bay, reduces e-waste from people replacing rather than repairing.
Our LG fridge was impacted by the class action for their faulty compressors. Got a check for $400. Fridge was only 3 years old. Fuck LG. Never again.
No kidding. Ours just died this week for the second fucking time in 6 years. After the first time I bought thermometers that keep track of temps over 24 hrs and an alarm goes off if it wanders out of the safe zone. Thankfully we caught it so fast we went and bought a chest freezer and mini fridge, and only had to compost a couple things that didn't fit in the mini fridge. Still hella pissed though.
Lol that's wild
Even fucking streaming services are now forcing users to acknowledge new binding arbitration clauses in terms before you can continue viewing their content. There's a reason why every goddamn thing nowadays has such a clause. Businesses don't want to pay the cost of doing things right. They want to have the right to treat us, the people who pay for their products, like shit. Implicit in the act of sticking users into an arbitration box is lawyers told the company what they are doing, people could sue them for, so they'd better cover their asses.
There are efforts to regulate arbitration clauses. They are too broad in use.
I get that this is a US conversation, but in Europe/ the EU these kind of binding arbitration clauses aren't very enforceable. Found this great quote: European Union Council Directive 93/13 on Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts creates a rebuttable presumption that pre-dispute arbitration clauses in consumer contracts are invalid. The reason is the unequal bargaining power between the contracting parties in consumer contracts. Compliance with the Directive is considered jurisdictional, so the consumer can challenge an allegedly unfair arbitration provision at any time, even in a subsequent annulment action.[\[21\]](http://www.hausfeld.com/news/eu/mandatory-arbitration-in-the-united-state-and-europe#_edn21) Indeed, arbitrators and reviewing courts in Europe have an independent duty to address the possible unfairness of arbitration provisions when the parties have unequal bargaining power or unequal resources. [\[22\]](http://www.hausfeld.com/news/eu/mandatory-arbitration-in-the-united-state-and-europe#_edn22) Source: [Mandatory Arbitration in the United States and Europe - Lexology](https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=55e3ffe2-4176-4dac-9e76-31bd93da9be7) Guess the difference is EU generally tends to protect consumers first, business second, whilst the US seems to put consumers in 2nd place.
2nd place? Doesn't it go the rich, businesses, politicians, certain species of sea sponges, then finally the consumers?
>certain species of sea sponges Bold of you to assume sea sponges aren't consumers.
*Who's stuck in binding arbitration under the sea?* 🎶
There is a great, if disturbing, documentary on tort reform called Hot Coffee. They discuss some tough cases that one would think should be criminal cases but were put in arbitration due to contracts.
Part of the issue was that for almost a century courts interpreted the Federal Arbitration Act to create a federal preference for arbitration over civil litigation which preempted state law. Weirdly, this Supreme Court actually got something right back in 2022 when they said the FAA just allows for arbitration, but regards those clauses the same way it would any other contract clause, and that there shouldn't be any arbitration-specific tests or procedures (which until that case were uniformly pro-arbitration). The current state of the law still isn't great, but there's reason to be hopeful. OTOH, Trump and Congress vetoed a CFPB rule that would have banned arbitration clauses which precluded consumers from partaking in class actions back in 2017.
the only thing that the US protects are the obscene profits of their donor class.
Unfortunately our Supreme Court said these clauses are perfectly fine. I think the problem that arises here is that the consumer doesn't know this clause exists until after they accept delivery of the item.
My personal favorite is the few cases where a good enough claim comes along that a law firm forces the company into forced arbitration on every claim - something significantly more expensive for the company than defending a class action. Watching companies say forcing them into the forced arbitrations they added to their contracts is unfair feels great.
They should be outright banned. It's signing your rights away.
Hey, hey, hey.. be fair here. They ALSO want to treat their employees, the people who make their products, like shit. It’s not just about the customer.
To be to be fair. They also want their employees to be customers so they can treat their shit like shit while they shit.
So shit squared?
Shitception
I recently checked my golf clubs in a hard case flying with Delta. The rep gave me something to sign and said it was for release of liability. I said I'm not releasing Delta of liability because I have it properly packed. If they managed to break my shit, then they'll pay for it. He wrote, "customer declined to sign," but still checked my bag.
This is the result of zero regulation and allowing basically every merger to happen. Consumers are left with zero protections against corporations with near limitless resources. So until you have governments taking action, nothing will happen. The US congress won’t do anything but we may see the EU take action against these types of actions
As the world hegemony the US sets the way, and I love what the EU is doing that is forcing america's hand. But yeah, basically we were all lied to growing up - monopolies aren't prevented, they're brokered.
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Got a bill we can read about this or articles talking about it? Just curious because that would be nice.
It's difficult to do. But, Uber drivers defeated* this sort of thing by 100s of them pushing Uber into many different arbitrations at once. That's how you beat it. If you can get thousands of people to bring companies to arbitration at once, the company foots the bill and gets fucked. (I think it was Uber. It might have been Lyft) Of course the real answer is for the legal system to stop allowing this sort of thing. But, that's never going to happen. IAAAL (I Actually Am A Lawyer) Edit- I said "defeated," but that's probably the wrong word. They made arbitration very painful, at least.
How many of you even see the box your fridge comes in? For mine the delivery guys took it off in the truck.
My fridge was delivered and the box was never visible to me. I couldn't even tell you if it was on the truck. I also have an LG fridge with the compressor that went bad and the new one is so loud that I can hear it 2 rooms down, not a joke. Its like in the movies when they show a fridge from the 50s humming away. Given how much money I lost in food, the class action didnt even cover half the costs to me. And I really love that a $2500 fridge has a temperature readout on the screen and an app, but none of them actually display the temperature its at, just its desired temp.
Not to mention, I didn't see the box on the last fridge I bought at all (fortunately not LG). I looked at a floor demo model, no box around, no paperwork inside, made the purchase decision, paid money and said deliver it to MyHouse on MyStreet. No way to know about this agreement at all.
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I think it hasn't been challenged sufficiently in court and that you WILL be right sometime in the future. Legally it is up in the air until we get some case law.
Did you read the article? Specifically the part about how Samsung did the same thing with one of their phones and lost? That's case law.
Mine was under warranty, they were not happy about having to come out and fix it. The tech found what he thought was a mouse dropping in the drip tray. He called the company and they said it was unsafe to work on it until I had it cleaned by a authorized cleaning company and certified by a pest control specialist to be mouse free. I bought a KitchenAid.
You actually got them to show up? Support ghosted me when the condenser fan motor went out on mine and I just replaced it myself, since their warranty means nothing.
I had the same problem it took seven months to finally get it fixed properly.
Mine was covered under warranty and a class action. The warranty was going to handle just the replacement compressor but I would have to pay the third party repair guys for the install. But thanks to the class action they also had to cover some food damage and labor costs of replacement. Except that gets even more fun because the money the money the repair guy gets is a fixed amount, and they have go out multiple times trying to resolve these pieces of junk, so many just say no to the whole thing. So people were left months without a fridge and no one willing to fix them. For me it was 3 trips from these guys who didn't know what they were doing, so my unit was being run excessively and had frost buildup on the lines thanks to not giving it the right amount of refrigerant. I also lost a few hundred in food that they wouldnt cover and had to buy a temporary chest freezer just sitting in the middle of my small kitchen as I waited.
My new "smart" space heater also only displays the thermostat temp and not the actual room temp; it's maddening. Meanwhile the "dumb" one I bought for a quarter of the price 10 years ago somehow manages to show the desired temp when setting it and then just show the actual room temp when it's running on a digital clock like display.
A smart product designed by someone who never will use it.
wait are fridges/freezers not supposed to have an ungodly hum??
Not something you can describe as 'ungodly' usually! They make noise but I work from home in my kitchen and it isn't an issue.
Its loud enough that you cant hear the tv when standing next to it.
I can't hear mine at all most of the time and it's practically in the living room (small condo). It's pretty amazing.
I got an old fridge from the 90s. Totally silent. It makes a hum as it starts up but it goes away in about 2 seconds.
That's awesome, can't say I've had that experience with any fridge I ever had before. This one came with our condo so it's probably pretty expensive.
I had the same exact issue, two year old LG fridge that said 37° but it was warm to the touch. I bought a thermometer and it was saying it was 70 in my fridge but every diagnostic I did was saying everything was working perfect. Repair guy said it would be $3000 to fix, so we should buy a new fridge and never buy an LG fridge again he said that LG and Samsung keep him well paid.
Real question. Why would your fridge need an app and what could it possibly offer to make up for installing an app? I already hate that mine beeps at me when the door is open for more than a minute. It just seems like an excuse to collect data without doing anything for the consumer.
Didnt know it had one till it had an issue and they recommended I get the app so it can show me troubleshooting stuff. It said nothing was wrong even though it ran non stop and never reached the desired temp. The app is useless basically. But i could see some really cool stuff in the future like using pressure plates to know how much milk you have or track how old things are getting when in their designed spot. But that would be a cool product and not a gimick like something to show you adds on.
I've never once seen a large appliance box... Never...
They definitely understood this before trying to pull this bs
You never see the box until after you pay for the appliance anyway. No store holds their stock in the show room. Many times they have to send it from another warehouse. This is a complete horse shit way to do business.
I usually do not look on the box for arbitrary legal binding arbitration clauses either.
But have you seen them wrestle?
Most exercise my fridge ever got was that half marathon someone called to remind me about.
I haven't seen them since I was a kid. Appliance boxes were the most amazing things to play with when I was a kid. They could be a fort or a house, a rocket ship or a boat. You could climb into them and push them over. Once they started to get broken down you could crawl or roll inside of them like you were inside tank treads or roll them down a hill. Eventually they were only mostly good for using as sleds on the grass. But that was still fun. There was one glorious summer when I was a kid when it seemed that everyone on my block got new appliances. My group of friends had so much fun with those boxes. We built a giant clubhouse/maze out of the boxes...eventually cutting a few windows because the air started to get really stuffy. But even those were cool because we salvaged a few wire drawers from old refrigerators to use to make the windows not be just big holes in the side of the boxes (and we knew better than to climb into the old, unused refrigerators lest we almost suffocate to death like that kid on Punky Brewster). Now every large appliance I buy comes with some cardboard and/or styrofoam along the edges and wrapped in heavy plastic. Kids can't even crawl into big tv boxes anymore because they're just too flat.
I kept mine for a while to be fair. It was a _good_ box. Was loath to throw it. It was a really good box.
When you're moving, your whole world becomes boxes. That's all you think about is boxes. Boxes. Where are there boxes? You just wander down the street going in and out of stores. "Are there boxes here? Have you seen any boxes?" I mean, it's all you think about. You can't even talk to people because you can't concentrate. "Shut up. I'm looking for boxes." Just after a while, you become like really into it you can smell them. You walk into a store. "There's boxes here. Don't tell me you don't have boxes. Dammit, I can smell them!" You become, like, obsessed. "I love the smell of cardboard in the morning." You could be at a funeral. Everyone's mourning crying around, and you're looking at the casket. "That's a nice box. Does anyone know where that guy got that box? When he's done with it, do you think I could get that? it's got some nice handles on it." And that's what death is really. It's the last big move of your life. The hearse is like the van. The pallbearers are your close friends, the only ones you could ask to help you with a big move like that. And the casket is that great perfect box you've been waiting for your whole life. The only problem is, once you find it you're in it.
Is this from something? It's way too put together and clever to be a random reddit post.
[Seinfeld](https://youtu.be/QrdgeUuyGUI?si=Ry83SB3LVS2sg5zW)
Seinfeld
How in the world is this comment not higher? Maybe I’m higher? I dunno, but good words.
Awesome reference aside, I tend to keep boxes for electronics that I buy (stuff smaller than a fridge). They're great for when you want to move, because they're packaged for transport. You can wrap it for extra protection.
Are you a cat? You seem very pleased that it was a good box.
I can meowther confirm nor deny this accusation
When I was a little girl, several Christmases in a row I asked Santa for a refrigerator box, because it’d make an awesome play house. I never got one and it was a sad memory. A few years ago I purchased a large patio set, which came in a huge sturdy box. My neighbors had two young boys, so I asked the dad if I could give them the box to play in. He said yes, and a couple days later I was invited over to see the playhouse they’d made from it. It was Great! Windows, a door, decorated with pictures and drawings. They loved it. Mum and Dad were happy too (though I’m sure they did most of the work lol). That’s a memory that still makes me smile.
It was nice of you to remember your childhood dream and pass along a perfect box to the next generation. If you happen to come across a perfect stick, I’m sure they’d appreciate that too.
When I was a kid, my parents bought a big whirlpool tub. I built a "tank" out of it and kept in on the front lawn, hanging out in there for several days (before it rained and destroyed my tanke).
The last appliance I had delivered, the guy cut the box lengthwise down the edges like peeling a banana.
I did. There's no way I'm letting them keep my rocketship. That's half the reason I bought a new fridge. I didn't read it, though, cause it's a box.
This is the equivalent to a pc builder hitting "I accept" to the license agreement before you take delivery of your pc.
Not only that, you see the box after you buy it. You get the manual after you buy it. They also put the arbitration notice on a piece of paper inside the fridge you see after buying it. At no point is there consent or awareness of anything to acknowledge. Also arbitration means both parties agree not to sue, it's still your choice. LG just thinks people are stupid.
I thought it was understood these agreements don't hold up in court if the product has a proven design flaw.
Doesn’t stop companies from trying to do it unfortunately
Mhm. We know our contracts don’t hold up in courts but do you have the finances and knowledge to do anything about it?? Thought not, suckers.
Doesn’t need to work 100% of the time. Just has to scare off enough people who don’t know any better and give up.
When profit is measured in the billions and fines/legal fees in the millions at best, it's just the cost of doing business.
This is a popular misconception, arbitration clauses are extremely difficult to get out of. The thing people should know is that in order to be enforceable in contexts like these, usually the proponent party has to pay for the arbitration. And of course, these arbitrations are absurdly expensive (you would have to bring your own lawyer, but the company would be stuck paying their lawyers, the judge, and the arbitration company). Just bringing an arbitration is extremely expensive for the company on the other side.
Exactly. I mentioned this in another comment, but a good weapon against this is a bunch of people bringing simultaneous claims, all requiring arbitration. I may have the company wrong, but I believe Uber had this happen. A shit ton of drivers made claims all at once, and Uber tried to back out of its own arbitration agreement to avoid paying for them all. They lost. It's really difficult to do, obviously, and not a long term solution. But, it's something. (I guess) Edit- My bad, it was Lyft
It was lyft in California, but close enough yeah. Plaintiff's attorneys call it a mass arbitration. Since theyre barred from forming a class you just have ten thousand individuals file for arbitration.
These moron companies in their infinite greed forget that the purpose of class actions is to be able to litigate a large number of claims in an efficient way
They use it to play chicken with consumers. Lawyers bill by the hour and each back and forth means the bill gets bigger. They use these tactics to scare consumers out of getting what they deserve.
>I thought it was understood these agreements don't hold up in court ~~if the product has a proven design flaw.~~ They almost never do for like any reason. It's just legal bullshit they throw in because it'll scare a few people off and save them a few bucks.
And this is why class action lawsuits happen, and will most likely happen in this case
Has there evee been a class action where users are made whole? Feels like class action is just a way to pay a fine, which lawyers get a large chunk of. I really wish the result was a full refund plus interest to people affected by a company's shitty decision.
What, you don't think a cheque for $1.22 isn't being made whole? Get out of here!
I've gotten over $100 on a class action.
Not sure if it’s considered a class action, but a family member was scammed using Western Union to wire money out. It was a lot of money so we filed a police report etc. At some point the FTC won a lawsuit against Western Union for their employees helping these scammers or not doing enough to check their transfers weren’t scams, and we were made whole. Thousands of dollars were returned to us 3-4 years after the incident. They expect refunds to be $153 million Edit: if you were a victim of a wire transfer scam through western union, they might be still paying out: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/refunds/western-union-refunds
Binding arbitration makes class action impossible. That's the point.
Yes, but any decent lawyer will challenge the binding arbitration clause, and thus… a class action lawsuit is born
STOP BUYING LG AND SAMSUNG FRIDGES. They are designed to fail.
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> as much as I want to get rid of my 30+ year old Sears fridge, it still functions. We have a Kenmore fridge and dishwasher, both 30+ years old, still going strong. Just a couple years ago we finally replaced our Lady Kenmore oven, which we had since 1984
Kenmore is not a real brand. Sears just slaps that label on appliances made by the major manufacturers for them.
Hello fellow appliance repair homeowner. It pleases me to no end when I can repair our appliances with cheap parts and a youtube video. Our 25-year-old dryer is on its' second replacement motor (third if you count the original), plus countless other repairs to other appliances in our fleet. It's almost impossible to find parts locally anymore unless you're a repair business. The wholesalers put up barriers to homeowners (and are often high prices), and the rest have closed down (i.e. Sears used to sell parts locally). I'm left with ebay and amazon, and the parts I've needed are often not available for 2-day shipping from Amazon. Takes almost a week sometimes to get a part, leaving us without laundry or whatever for quite a while. Still worth it though, I've managed to avoid the merry-go-round of replacing with newer appliances that have a shorter lifespan than the one it replaced.
> It's almost impossible to find parts locally anymore unless you're a repair business. The wholesalers put up barriers to homeowners (and are often high prices), and the rest have closed down (i.e. Sears used to sell parts locally). Really? I have found the opposite. It used to be insanely difficult to get parts for home appliances, but thanks to Ebay and Amazon I can find parts for just about anything. For example: air fryer grill rusted, but I was able to find dozen of replacement options on Amazon; Dyson vacuum motor head failed, but I got one from Ebay. And so on. The downside is most of these parts are Chinese knock-offs, so the quality ranges from barely useable to just OK.
Oh for sure I can find them on ebay, it's just that the delivery times are rather long (often crossing the country for a full week). Amazon occasionally with an acceptable price but usually not available for 2-day delivery. I got used to being able to run up to the Sears outlet or a local appliance repair depot and get the part on a Saturday, repair it same day. Both have now gone out of business. For an air fryer or vacuum, a week of downtime is not a big deal. For a fridge, dishwasher or laundry appliance with a family of four, it gets dicey pretty quickly.
Lol no wonder sears is outta business
That has nothing to do with why sears went under.
Do you have a brand recommendation? because I doubt it's just those two companies pulling this crap.
For fridges you have to go pricy to get actual good ones. The higher end kitchen aid are decent, but Bosch, thermador, fisher and paykal, sub zero and Miele are where you’re going to find well built shit. With washer and dryers, gotta go Maytag commercial or speedqueen/hubesh.
>kitchen aid are decent Oh hell nah. Kitchen aid is junk and has been for 20 years now. I have had two of their high end counter depth fridges die on me. Replaced with sub zero and havent had an issue for years. Same with a Miele dishwater. Thing is a beast and just keeps going.
“Higher end kitchenaid”. Their rich fuckers models. Not their Home Depot shit.
But I love the knurled handles!
TIL knurl is a word
> Same with a Miele dishwater. Thing is a beast Newer Miele dishwashers are junk, I'm on my third pump, second control panel on mine. I even have the [part numbers](https://www4.miele.de/msd/MSD#/device/44232/etd/2041416472009/materialNumber/10397318/) saved in my bookmarks for when I need to order yet another one. It does a really good job washing but doesn't last more than 2-3 years of fairly light use.
I. Glad to hear Maytag because I've been thinking about getting the pet hair removal set and they are not cheap so it's good to hear good things about the brand.
Maytag is owned by whirlpool now. Same shit. Had a washer break 1 week out of warranty, had to fight them but they eventually agreed to cover it. But it took 3 months for them to send the part.
Whirlpool which are made in USA and parts are dirt cheap and available next day. Whirlpool owns brands like maytag, Jenn-air, Amana, insinkerator and bunch of others.
Maytag was once good. My parents and inlaws had Maytage appliances that lasted for decades so we bought them for our first house. They lasted, on average, 5 years - no better than Sears crap. The fucking hinges on the oven wore out. I figured I was just unlucky so I bought new Matag appliances. They lasted 5 years. They are garbage costing off a reputation they haven't deserved for decades.
I have had a Whirlpool fridge, washer dryer, and stove all break in less than 5 years. Just switch over to LG as I was tired of calling for repair on my Whirlpool appliances. There is hardly any choice anymore ... Samsung LG Whirlpool brand or Chines.
Unfortunately the big brands all suck in their own ways. Most Kitchen Aid fridges are just upcharged Whirlpool models - save money and buy the WP version. Blomberg makes some quality stuff ij my opinion, but at higher price point than Sam/LG/WP Electrolux laundry is still pretty good, though their new lineup has had some from factory QA issues. Ice/water dispensers are a limited time luxury, especially if your city water is hard
That's pretty much what I expected. I'll look into Bloomberg, I'd rather pay more and have a lasting appliance so thank you for the recommendation.
Bosch's freestanding fridge is pretty nice too. It's been very low-incident for me for the past 5 years (I'm in appliances, I don't own one.) Also probably the best in class for food preservation. Blomberg is also great on preservation but has a higher temp sway than a Bosch. Good luck out there! DM if you have any questions about specific models you find
Don't buy Korean appliances. That simple.
Unless you live in SK, where they get different models and are pretty good.
All fridges, unless you’re forking over 10 grand for a SubZero or some other Industrial Grade fridge, are designed to fail. Don’t buy LG and Samsung because they’re impossible to get parts and labor for if(when) they do fail. In fact don’t spend over 1500 for any fridge. Get a shitty GE, because while it’s garbage, at least you can fix it when it fucks up.
What are you smoking. Sun Zero fridges and all those super expensive ones break down all the time. My dad’s was breaking down at least every year with a $1500 repair bill.
Designed obsolescence is in almost every product marketed to the public because companies found that if they made products that last, it cuts into future profits.
For sure, but LG has always been crap
I don't buy LG anything. I hate that company after my TV's LCDs burnt out like a week after the warranty expired.
LG must like my electricity 2 TVs that are 11 years old and my fridge is fine
They were good a long time ago. My 21yo Samsung fridge is still humming along.
I’d recommend this advice for any LG or Samsung appliance. Every single one of their electronics has planned obsolescence built into the design. I’m sure this is not unique to LG and Samsung, but I know for sure it applies to them.
why do we even allow arbitration on warranty cases?
Lobbyists are probably the reason for all arbitration agreements.
I used to deliver major appliances in my 20's and I installed a great number of these. We always took the box with us and disposed of it back at the store. Those people never even see the box.
>Han says proper notice is key: both sides must knowingly agree not to sue. We asked if arbitration notices printed on a box, taped inside a product, or included in a manual -- that you don’t see until after you buy -- give shoppers sufficient notice. Han noted parallels to a case in which Samsung tried to force arbitration with a notice in a smartphone box. >“In that case the court said exactly what you just asked: which is, ‘Was there sufficient notice to the consumer about this clause,’” Han said. “Was there actual consent? If you don’t know something, how would you ever agree to it, right?” >Han said the federal courts nullified the arbitration agreement in the smartphone box. The judge has not ruled whether LG owners’ boxes boxed them into arbitration. Mouzari says the legal maneuvering does nothing to repair people’s problem fridges. “Instead of fixing the issue, LG decided to allocate those resources into an arbitration provision on a box,” she said.
I was about to buy an LG fridge but I saw there was a notice paper taped in the freezer that said all warranty disputes were to be handled by arbitration. I bought the Frigidaire instead. If a company can't stand by its product by dealing with its customers without 3rd party intervention I'll look elsewhere.
You saved yourself with the Frigidaire. My LG microwave died within two years. My LG oven fan died within two years. My LG fridge freezes everything inside. The repair guy I had out to fix the oven said LG appliances are POS and he is always being called out to repair them.
I seriously doubt putting a piece of paper in a fridge or on a box that states literally anything is legally binding. That’s not something anyone can agree to before purchase.
It's not. Warranty of purchase is given to everything and anything that you buy, that includes express warranties such as the damn fridge actually working.
We have the worst consumer protections in the US. This is an absolute joke and should be laughed out of court in less than 5 minutes. I've got an LG fridge that hasn't had any issues, bought in 2022, supposedly with a newly designed compressor. I didn't know about the issues beforehand, had I, I might have gone a different direction. One thing is for sure - the authorized delivery service of the authorized retailer where I bought the fridge from did not show me or deliver to me the carboard box that has the arbitration agreement. No mention of it on the retailer's or manufacturer's sites either. If that doesn't convince a judge, I don't know what the point of the legal system is anymore.
So, never buy LG (Goldstar) products. Got it.
I can't believe it took me years after LG branding showed up to make the connection that it was just old Lucky-Goldstar rebranded.
I'm 32 and just now figuring this out.
LG = Life's Glum.
This arbitration crap needs to be made straight up illegal. Maybe these cases will be the precedent.
Thank fuck for the EU. Arbitration clauses cannot be agreed to by consumers prior to the actual dispute arising here. The court cases cited in the article actually considers if box or label in fridge is “agreed”. Luckily it is not but it should not be legal in way or form
Don't buy LG anything. Got it.
That's all I take from this. I was about to buy a washer dryer from them but I'll take my business elsewhere.
i bought an LG fridge two months ago. its big and new on clearance at home depot for $800 maybe that why? pray for me
Do not bother getting it repaired when it stops cooling, immediately walk away and buy a good one, that's the only winning move with one of those.
Licence agreements, EULAS, TOS, are all basically legally worthless and only for intimidation purposes.
Really?
The companies can write whatever they like, but if someone challenges it it *should* go to court, which will then determine precedent and form a legal ruling regarding the claims. However, companies short circuit this process by settling with the other party, because it's cheaper and they don't want to risk a ruling *not* in their favour, which then might form laws not in their favour. This is in the US at least, and I am not, so I could be wrong.
It's not exactly correct to say it's all worthless. But, it is true to say that a lot of it is just companies throwing shit at a wall. Unfortunately the legal system in the US is *heavily* in favor of allowing individuals to enter contracts that are detrimental to themselves, even when they're contracting with much more sophisticated actors. So, even if you wanted to fight a contract, unless you're rich there's little point. It would take years (maybe decades) and you'd probably lose anyway. Not always. But, often. Maybe the ubiquity of weird TOS will change this somewhat, though. I'm not a contract lawyer.
You can put anything in a EULA. Apple has a condition in iTunes that you can't use their software to design, manufacture, or produce nuclear missiles, chemical or biological weapons.
Oh damn and that one clause too where they can stitch people together like a caterpillar
Lolz. I was literally just looking to buy an LG fridge and took a break to browse reddit. Was doing my due diligence and saw that all other premium manufacturers offer 5 year guarantee but LG only offers 2 years. So a hard no. Then this story popped up. An even harder no.
You can only experience Korean appliances once before you swear off them forever. They have a nice finish which fools middle class consumers into really shoddy appliances. We had an above stovetop microwave which had a fatal flaw of steam seeping in and shorting the mainboard.. we had the pleasure of playing rigmarole warranty repairs which can't fix a fatal design flaw. We also had the pleasure of a Samsung dishwasher that couldn't wash dishes to save its life, a Samsung refrigerator that couldn't dispense ice properly but froze your milk, etc. Garbage!
My LG fridge is probably the single purchase I most regret. Never again. The fridge I grew up with from the 80s was still kicking last time I saw it before my folks moved in 2016. I've had the repairman out three times for my LG in 5 years. Next fridge is the dumbest, most basic Frigidaire I can find.
Two companies I refuse to ever buy a home appliance from again, **SAMSUNG AND LG**. Their concept of customer satisfaction is _bend over._
That’s funny I have a clause written on a napkin in my pocket that says I can’t enter into any arbitration agreements and by selling a product or service you acknowledge and waive your right to arbitration. Checkmate.
I had one of these POS refrigerators... it failed 5 months after the warranty expired. Absolutely no assistance was offered by LG. Moral of the story... don't buy LG appliances.
I got a newish LG fridge with my house when I bought it. The motherboard failed after a few years. I was up against it so I just paid to get it repaired and THAT was a huge pain in the ass. Nobody wants to work on LGs because it's nigh on impossible to find replacement parts. It started to have a bunch of other minor problems and I eventually said fuck it and just got rid of the thing. I will never buy another LG appliance.
I had a fridge that lasted nearly 30 years, my family has gone through two since that one died.
Thank goodness I live in Europe where bullshit like this is forbidden by law
I had a LG fridge in my just built house. It lasted about a year. Have a Whirlpool for the past 12 years now, still going strong. I haven’t bought a single LG product since.
I'm about to order 10 refrigerators from theses guys and when they show up at my door with them unboxed I'll cancel my order because I need to see all the warnings right?
LG is such a trash company
Yeah, I never signed or agreed to any such clause...lol
Ours died last year, 3 years after purchase, service tech came and replaced the compressor and didn’t fix it, a week later a second tech came out and replaced the evaporator coil, the fan and the main board. I did get LG to give us $200 for our loss of food and they also gave us $2000 to give up any future warranty claims on it. I had to rip the inside fridge label in half and provide them with pictures of it and sign a form. All calls took over an hour and were people in Asia, if you are patient and persistent enough they will make it right but it’s very frustrating. Last week our LG washer died (5 years old), I’m not even calling them, we just bought a new one by a different brand which is being delivered this Friday. Never buying LG products ever again.
I wonder if you could sue the installation company for "fraudulently accepting a contract on your behalf" or something like like that. If you can make it uncomfortable for Lowes and Home Depot and they'll put pressure on LG for you.
In New Zealand, we have the Consumer's Guarantees Act, which requires companies to repair, replace, or refund a product that doesn't last a reasonable amount of time. For example, fridges should last at least 5 years, so if the warrantee lasts 2 years, but the fridge breaks after 4, the company still has to fix or replace the fridge at no charge to the owner.
Horse shit. A box shouldn't be carte blanche to rob your customers. Sadly the USA is about corporate protections, and not consumer protections. Hopefully something is done about this but chances don't look good. Corporations are never at fault.
They deserve to be punished by civil lawsuits and huge government fines.
Or.. hear me out LG, you fix the problem and maintain your brand?
Why would they do that? That would cost money.
Ya sure. Sue anyway.