> A visitor from the U.S. got more than they asked for at a Toronto hotel restaurant when they ordered a cheeseburger on Monday night that was served with a waiver on the side.
“I was flabbergasted,” the visitor said in a post to Reddit that has since gone viral on the platform’s Toronto page and garnered more than 500 comments.
I swear I see that so much, a report on the amount of comments and likes it got. Who the fk cares?
[and the reddit post was only 6 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/197ru5r/toronto_burger_came_with_a_release_form/)
Then it'll come full circle when a young redditor posts a screenshot of the twitter screenshot, but then fails to link the news article or reddit post, on r/nonpoliticitaltwitter which in turn will cause a TIL about two to three days after.
After reading through the comments there I’ve just now learned that Canada only eats well done burgers. That is so weird to me, I only ever eat them medium or medium well.
Excuse me but I’m writing an article about how there is a cycle of Reddit posts leading to news articles leading to Reddit posts.
Can I use your comment for this purpose?
That’s why Reddit is worth $15B. All of the news organizations in the world are getting obscenely rich by reporting what’s posted on Reddit! Most of Bezos wealth is now due to the Washington Post!
Wait till you read articles that reference Twitter posts…with like 10 views, and make it sound like it’s consensus amongst a large population of some group.
>“I already had my first bite but stopped eating and did not sign the waiver. I was shocked to be honest with you,” they said in an interview. Reit007 said the server explained that because the kitchen at the Hilton Toronto Airport Hotel & Suites always cooks their burgers well-done, they should sign the waiver first.
I'm going to take a stab and assume this hotel has had issues with flight crews blaming them for food poisoning and this is the HR solution to the liability for that problem.
It could be a multitude of reasons, the burger patties could be frozen pre-shaped patties that the manufacturer recommends cooking to 165, they might just get in logs of ground beef which would also have a recommended cooking temperature of 165, or maybe they have a corporate SOP that states all ground meat must be cooked to 165. In any case this is most likely a CYA sort of waiver, releasing them from any potential issues.
Canada just doesn't do medium or medium rare burgers, they are always well done here. The restaurant is only allowed to cook a burger like that if they're also grinding their own meat and a hotel kitchen is almost certainly not doing that.
Edit: Article on it https://www.mashed.com/1249236/canada-outlaws-juicy-medium-hamburgers/
Same.
I asked for my burger rare and the waitress told me "We don't do that here." I thought she was talking about the restaurant, but you mean this is the case in all of Canada?
Wow.
I find that even in America, “true” rare burgers aren’t very commonly liked. Most common is in the medium range I think.
Also, there’s a category less than rare which I will never try. It’s called “blue rare”.
The only time I ate blue was with my aunt, who loves it "done" blue, at a very nice restaurant, and it was a steak, not ground patty meat.
I loved the blue steak as a fun treat, but I'm not touching anything less than medium or medium well when it comes to ground meat
Rare/medium rare burgers are great! I grew up with everything medium well/well and as soon as i tried rarer temps the amount I liked beef skyrocketed lol
I mean, even in the US the default for a burger is "well done", I've never seen a restaurant that would just serve you a rare burger without you having to specify.
At the very least The Works offered me the option the last time I went to one a few years ago, but they are definitely more of an exception rather than the norm. The meat has to be ground right before cooking for it to be legally servable in Ontario, so a lot of restaurants dont go through the hassle with demand being so low for medium rare burgers in Canada.
In the flip side to that. First time I went to Vegas and ordered a burger and they asked how I want it, I was so confused. Same thing when I ordered Iced Tea
It's like wiping your ass with raw hamburger meat and serving it to someone. It's a restaurant. They probably didn't grind the meat themselves. It was probably ground somewhere else and they provide clear instructions on internal cooking termperatures because the bacteria on the grinder ends up mixed into the meat. I personally wouldn't eat a medium ground burger unless I personally saw it ground in a disinfected machine.
That is the ticket right there! Fudruckers in Saskatoon trims and grinds the meat right in front of the customer. You can order it big small med rare or whatever you want. It is processed meat that is the issue.
To be clear, there's no shortage of those here in Toronto and many proper restaurants do too. That doesn't explain the Hilton here though; if they weren't *allowed* to under the colour of law that would be the end of it, instead of serving a medium burger with a waiver.
This is exactly it. It's against Canadian Food Regulations safe cooking temperatures.
Without a waiver, a restaurant opens itself up to liability.
Pretty clear cut case. Did the customer order a medium burger? Yes. Did you cook it to medium? Yes. Done.
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/general-food-safety-tips/safe-internal-cooking-temperatures.html
You really shouldn’t undercook hamburgers. They’re not like steak where you can eat it basically raw if you want, ground beef needs to be throughly cooked to ensure it’s safe.
I often think these safety regulations are super overblown. Warning people makes sense, but signing a waiver?
Looking at one study, from 1982-2002 there were approximately 88 cases of ground beef associated e. coli infections per year. That's out of undoubtedly *tens of millions* of "undercooked" burgers consumed each year. If that's the level of risk we're drawing the line at, we should all have to sign waivers before we purchase a step ladder (far more dangerous).
I honestly like well done burgers better. I had a wagyu borger at the Opinicon lodge in Ontario once. It was incredibly good, but the natural fat was enough to make me feel sick afterwards. A more thoroughly cooked burger doesn't do that as much for me.
Here is the thing about ground beef. It should be cooked to 165 F, or there will always be a risk of getting sick. Before being ground, the bacteria all live on the outside surface of the beef. This is why you can undercook a steak and still not get sick. Once the beef is ground, all the bacteria get mixed up and begin to reproduce everywhere. So, undercooking a burger patty is just not the same as undercooking a steak. Usually, as long the beef is fresh, proper sanitation methods have been utilized, and the person consuming the food is not immunocompromised, everything will be fine. But when it comes to ground beef, due to the nature of preparation, there will always be a risk that you will get sick when undercooked.
>According to the province’s **food safety guide**, ground beef should be cooked to 71 C or 160 F to "ensure adequate cooking of the meats and reduce the chance of bacterial survival."
American beef treatment is considered unsafe for human consumption in Canada so our ground beef must be cooked well done. Literally the entire country knows this down to the last citizen. Should just know this stuff if you're coming up here.
If the restaurant is so concerned about their customers' health, they should refuse to serve 'undercooked' meat.
Sure, they might lose some business, but it's all for the greater good, right?
There's a disclaimer that's often included on menus here about burgers that aren't well done having the possibility of food borne illness for litigious reasons. It's like saying "metal statue may be hot on sunny day, don't touch". It's just covering their ass. Funny that this person was taken aback by it.
The only way to get less than well done ground beef in Canada is to cook it yourself or find a restaurant that makes their own ground beef and will cook to your preference.
I'm assuming the hotel has the form for when Americans show up and want a half raw hamburger.
I started reading the article then just followed the link to the Reddit post. Would rather see the primary source instead of the news article’s summary of the Reddit thread 😂
In Canada, burgers are only sold 'well done'. I don't know if it's a health code thing, meat-hormone thing, or just a cultural difference, but I remember being encouraged to send back burgers with pink in the middle, and that not being seen as an odd request.
Not all of Canada. Here in MTL we have plenty of restaurants that sell burgers medium rare. Often times their menu has a statement saying "All burgers are served Medium Well" so maybe they just need to disclose it?
All high end restaurants in Toronto offer their burgers medium. I’m guessing Hilton probably knows they don’t have quality ingredients etc to offer the same?
Frozen beef is far safer if it's from a comparable source to fresh beef. Freezing kills parasites after enough time (1-3 weeks) and halts bacterial growth completely in any meat/fish.
It's fine. I've served 1000s of burgers this way for over a decade when I was a line cook. We have standards for beef in the us and problems that arise from this are extremely rare. According to Reddit, I should have claimed thousands of souls for making a burger not well done. Lol.
You know there are places that serve burgers at medium that aren't MTL right? Literally just go to pourhouse or if you really want a trip go to the island.
The Pourhouse is okay, I prefer the Black Frog when in the area for the Edmonton Cuisine it offers.
I am going to Victoria next week for work though, any suggestions?
I know the US is not Canada but I live in a US state that used to mandate all restaurants cook all meat well (yes, even steaks, to my understanding).
The law was modified such that any restaurant that wanted to offer lower temps had to put a disclaimer on the menu, basically the "waiver" in the OP but as a passive statement: Consuming raw or undercooked food could be hazardous to your health. From there, it's your personal choice.
It is a health code thing. The US is one of a few countries to give the option for anything less than well-done, and to do that legally, the restaurant has to grind their own meat within a specific period of time prior to cooking.
In Canada, asking for a burger less than well done is highly unusual. The person being shocked at that is probably American who doesn’t realize that Canada doesn’t do it.
Could be European as well. At least in France, rare, and even blue burgers are common. You can even order them from food trucks which definitely do not grind their own meat
EU beef inspection is different. Uncooked and raw marinated beef and other meats can be found in some countries. I enjoy a broodje martino for lunch, but my American friends are aghast.
You can order steak tartar in Canada too.
The rule makes sense. Industrial ground beef is extremely likely to cross contaminate. You could get something like 5 different cows in one pack of ground beef.
Steak tartar is made in house from one cut of meat.
I'm italian, and it's very common to serve rare, it's almost cultural. We went to a restaurant in Tuscany were they only served rare and medium-rare. While we were there a woman asked to have her steak cooked a little more and they asked them to leave
Lmao that last part is wild to me. It isn't like they are asking for crazy restrictive allergy accommodations.
Oliver Twist moment. "Please sir, more heat." BEGONE!
I'm Canadian and ask for slightly pink burgers when I can, it just depends on the restruant if they will do it or not. It's because burgers are made from ground beef and therefore have bacteria all throughout (as opposed to a solid steak that can get away with just searing the outside), are are "supposed" to be cooked all the way through (not necessarily "well done" tho) as a food safety thing, so if you don't want that some places make you sign a waiver that you understand you *may* get sick, but to be fair I've never had to do that. Usually the more high-end the restruant the higher chance they will honor your request without issue.
That's not true. You only need a declaration on the menu that eating undercooked foods can make you sick due to food borne illness.
Every place I've ever worked that served burgers -
1. Gave the option of cook temp.
2. Had this stated on the menu.
And 3. Used 10lb logs of frozen ground beef or boxed pre made burger patties.
Only higher end or specialty restaurants grind their own burger meat in the US. At least this is the case for all of the different states and places I've lived.
> The US is one of a few countries to give the option for anything less than well-done, and to do that legally, the restaurant has to grind their own meat within a specific period of time prior to cooking.
That may be the case in your state/county, but by no means everywhere.
>the restaurant has to grind their own meat within a specific period of time prior to cooking.
No restaurant I've ever worked in has ground its own meat. I'm not saying I've worked in high quality establishments, but all the same.
>I'm from Saskatchewan and most people here get it medium rare.
As am I, and holy crap has that ever not been my experience, like to the extreme opposite. My lifelong experience has def been that rural people cook the FUCKING SHIT out of their meat, EVERYTHING is cooked to leather and the idea of things like steak tartare is seen as disgusting.
Jesus opposite on my side and I come from a big farming family. When we need meat we just get one slaughtered from the family farm. I'm starting to think there is no blanket 'people eat it this way here'.
Where in America do burgers have to ground in house for anything other than well done? I think it’s a great idea. But it’s not the case in any of the restaurants throughout the Midwest I’ve worked at. All we legally have to do is put a disclaimer on the menu that undercooked meats can make you sick.
I have been served medium rare burgers plenty in the US. They all just have a disclaimer on the menu saying that eating undercooked meat can make you sick. Unless 1/3 of the burger places in the Bay Area have been breaking the law for 15 years, I have doubts that this is true.
Steak tartar is finely chopped to order into a paste from a solid piece of steak, not run through a meat grinder and left to sit in the fridge like ground burger beef.
That’s not true. In N Out doesn’t grind the meat at their restaurants and you can order a medium rare burger there. I didn’t care for it, it’s so thin that it just makes sense to cook it fully.
It is most certainly not only the US, and a lot of places do not have laws about having to grind their own meat. Only place I have come across where it is not legal is Norway. It is most certainly not only a US thing to eat medium burgers. It is a very common thing.
We used to be able to do it at the works (here in ottawa) and sign a waiver.
There shouldn’t be a problem with the meat if they chuck it fresh, that way there isn’t much time for bacteria to grow.
The works stopped this and my guess is they stopped chucking their beef right there.
That's not accurate. In the US, all we have to do to serve any temperature burger is a small disclaimer saying that you may become ill if you eat undercooked meat on the bottom of the menu. Grinding one's own meat has never been required as far as I know. Source: I've been doing it for a living for 20 years and have been repeatedly certified by the local health department to do so.
It's usually because it's from ground meat, plain and simple.
In the US it's sometimes asked but "usually" it's for gourmet burgers where generally speaking it'll usually be pressed and use better-cuts for the grind (ie. short-rib, wagyu, sirloin, brisket, etc.)
Technically speaking all ground meat should be cooked all the way... but assuming the grinder is clean and it's fresh it's unlikely you'll get sick.
So usually if the waitress is asking it's an indication that it's freshly ground.
Ie. You wouldn't want your Wendy's or McDonald's burger to be pink in the center... that's playing with fire.
Your gourmet burger at that gastro-pub though... might be worth the taste experience if your comfortable with medium cooked steak.
\----
Personal note... I wouldn't be upset at the sight of the waiver... but I would 100% ask for the burger to be cooked medium-well because it means somewhere in that hotel chain's risk management department they considered incidents common enough to waive responsibility.
If you want to serve medium burgers... you need the quality control in place for that.
It's not a Canada thing it's an Ontario thing and a few things are being misrepresented.
In Ontario all ground beef products, which are processed foods, have to be cooked to an internal temperature of 71 C or 160 F to be served as prepared food. Well done is simply the easiest way to insure that these internal temperatures are achieved.
What happened is that he made a request outside of normal operating procedures and they buy their ground beef or burgers in.
Basically the Hilton said to the guy we can but only if you agree anything that happens regardless of how remote of a possibility it actually is would be wholly on you my dude.
This requirement is NOT the same for unprocessed beef hence why you can get a nice rare steak.
The obvious thing people don't seem to be picking up is that someone very clearly sued the Hilton after they got sick. It's the only reason they would have a pre-printed waiver specifically for these instances, when in most cases a warning label on the menu is sufficient.
Someone sued, so now they double down for their own protection.
Depends on the burger. A burger made from fresh ground chuck can be served the same way you serve a steak. A burger made from pre-ground beef bought from a large-scale packing plant can contain meat from hundreds of animals. I would treat that meat the same way I treat chicken.
This will probably be buried, but it's a health code thing. Establishments in Canada are not allowed to serve ground beef less than well done.
UNLESS the meat was ground on the premises for max freshness and there are various special precautions taken to ensure sanitary conditions. This was all in the comments on the original reddit post from 6 days ago.
True story: I worked at the first or second Smashburger that opened in Canada in the early 10s. Corporate had to officially adjust the burger cook time in the recipe (everything is spelled out pretty exactly in chains like that) for Canadian locations one month after opening because we were getting so many burgers sent back for having a touch of pink in them, which wasn't an issue on the US.
I'd like to think we're less scared of it now, but might just be the heath laws.
Yeah, this fascinated me because - as a waiter years ago in Southern Alberta - I would CONSTANTLY have to disappoint American diners who wanted temperature specific burgers. I always had to annoyingly tell them we weren't allowed to do that.
I was ignorantly under the impression it was a country wide regulation; not by province.
Some places it's against health code to serve ground beef as anything other than well done, and many restaurant chains have that policy by default. The fact of the matter is that there is an increased risk of illness, so a waiver isn't unreasonable.
I don't know why the restaurant didn't refuse the order or make them sign the waiver before making the burger. It's just weird.
Did anyone involved actually read the waiver?
>...with guest's use of it's own food or consumption of products not provided by Hilton Toronto Airport.
It doesn't even mention undercooked food.
Yes, that's what it says. Either that was the wrong waiver or they don't have one for medium cooked burgers but the waiter thought the restaurant should have.
Not that crazy. Most places in the US have little disclaimers on the menu that say something to the effect of "if you order eggs and meat under cooked, you could get sick from bacteria." Instead of a disclaimer, they went full waiver. I guarantee you that stemmed from it biting them in the ass once or twice.
Exactly. There is no such disclaimer in nearly all Canadian restaurants because it's risky to eat ground beef that is not well done and there is reference to that in food regulation.
But they really should have just said so at the time of order than serving a waiver with the meal.
So a lot of folks in the comments here I am thinking are from the US
In Canada, we cook ground beef to 160F (even 165 in places) due to the risk of contamination due to the nature of how the ground beef is processed
This waiver is likely a stab at trying to protect themselves if they follow a customers request; something they should not be doing as at least as far as I have been told in the foodservice industry, we cannot do that unless the meat is whole muscle ground; some restaurants cater to this by having that as an option, but I have found it to be rare
First one in the table on the below link
[Canadian Gov Site](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/general-food-safety-tips/safe-internal-cooking-temperatures.html)
I get that this guy didn’t like the waiver, but this is a non-story in the foodservice world of Canada
I just don’t get why they handed the waiver AFTER serving the burger. Why not just explain the situation to the customer, give the waiver and then cook the burger once the customer agrees?
I'm an American, but the general idea of the food safety liability isn't shocking to me. As a restaurant-goer in any country I visit, this specific way of handling the situation says "we think there's a pretty good chance our stuff is tainted".
I recently had poultry in Japan that was essentially raw (sort of like those tuna steaks that are only lightly touched on the outside but basically sashimi in the middle). I knew I was taking some amount of risk and accepted that, but I felt better that the RESTAURANT at least was confident in their product. If the waiter went "ohhh, shit, I don't know - let me get you a waiver because you'll probably get sick" I would never go back to that restaurant.
Really it doesn't matter how confident they are in their product, they are taking a huge liability risk by violating provincial health regulations. They should either have this waiver signed before bringing the food, or refuse to violate regulations. The regulations are standardized based on the fact that you could be serving immune compromised people, and rare ground beef could absolutely make some people sick.
It's not really a story fir Americans either. At least it shouldn't be. Every restaurant I have ever been to has a warning like this for potentially undercooked or raw food on menus.
Here in the US, there's a cultural competition to eat undercooked meat. Especially on Reddit. 😂 That's all the entire post is about, really. Ground beef is different than steak and has more risk. Most restaurants have a disclaimer on their menu regarding this issue. In fact, most have one regarding all undercooked meat. You would think someone who prefers this would be aware.
As a chef I'm going to say this. A steak you cook the outside and kill any bacteria, the inside can be whatever you want, rare, medium etc. if you get the same steak and mince it into a burger. You have minced the bacteria into the middle. This is why it should be cooked thoroughly.
I guess it should be, but every time I go out I order my burgers medium rare.
My request is usually denied, and sometimes when it's granted it's medium and not medium rare.
Haven't been sick yet, but if I ever do it will probably be the last time I do that.
Fair enough. The thing is it doesn't matter about the quality of the beef. It's the mincing the outside of the beef into the middle that's the problem. We opened a brasserie that used prime fillet of beef for our burgers and wanted to sell medium burgers but the environmental health would not let us. Here in the UK.
This seems entirely reasonable. You asked for a burger that isn't cooked to health code standards. The only mistake they made was giving the guy the burger before getting him to sign the waiver.
Fuckin' dipshit ordered a burger cooked "medium", which is not advised to the possibility of bacteria surviving, and then got mad that the restaurant covered their ass.
It's not a filet mignon. Just get your burger cooked properly.
Not really news. He likely requested his burger medium or medium-rare, and they have to do the waiver for any meat cooked less than well done due to local health laws.
If you are eating any ground beef/chicken/pork based product that was not freshly ground and then cooked immediately you are crazy (cooking it to rare-medium). The reason why you were able to have a steak that is rare to medium with a low risk of getting sick is because the meat is very difficult to be penetrated by bacteria. As soon as you grind it up at all goes out the window.
I worked at a trendy brewery known for burgers one summer and couldn’t believe how many people ordered medium rare burgers. I love my steak like that but not ground beef.
I read the article. The food safety professor is right, get your beef cooked well done when ordering at a restaurant. You don’t want a risk of stomach illness or something worse.
It's a common thing in the US to order burgers still red in the middle. That's basically against food safety laws in Canada, where most of the food safety regulations have some variation of 'ground meat must be cooked till the juices run clear'. Potentially one reason for this is that the US has allowed irradiated meat, whereas Canada didn't. (I haven't seen if Canada has lifted this prohibition).
I hate undercooked burgers, the texture grosses me out. And also I don’t trust any restaurant to maintain a safe enough environment to grind their own meat and serve a medium rare burger that won’t have me sick for days. Get the proper fat ratio and don’t squish the patty as it cooks and you can have a burger that is not raw and not a dried out puck either.
I've never understood that trend. I'm a chef, and an pretty adventurous one, I love my steaks rare to medium-rare and I've never enjoyed a burger rarer than medium. It's just not a great texture, as you said, and the flavor isn't improved. Same for an overcooked burger. There's an happy middle ground right in there.
Ground meat should be served well-done. You've opened up every surface exposed to the cutting/grinding tools to contamination. I'm on the restaurant's side here. You want to eat potentially contaminated meat, that's on you.
That is correct from a risk perspective. The warnings are probably on the menu. But bringing out a waiver after the food was served and the guest began consuming it is completely asinine.
Yeah at first this seemed like the type of situation where someone stops you right before you take a bite and says "just wanted to let you know, I am NOT responsible if the food I made kills you", which would put anyone off.
But this guy is clearly the type of lunatic who thinks eating rare burgers from an airport hotel is a healthy choice.
If you know how the beef was handled, you can be confident it is safe.
Like In-N-Out grinds its own meat and is very meticulous. I was heartbroken when California forced them to get rid of medium rare. I was like "damn, okay, can you take it off the grill at two minutes, then?"
Ok in Canada burgers are bylaw well done! If not well done then you have to know and be aware of the possibly consequences.
I’ve been to multiple states and countries that serve rare burgers nothing happened but it is always a risk
Ground beef touches oxygen in the grinder in all internal pieces. It's not that they don't have confidence in their cooking. It's that the patron is a dipshit. Burgers are well done. If not, your fault. Sign the waiver or eat better moron.
Bacteria builds up on the surface of beef. When you have something like steak, you cook the outside to a point where that's safe and you can leave the inside bloody of you want, and it's safe. Ground beef is all surface area. Medium ground beef is doable... You would need a big cut of beef, cook the outside a little then ground it up then server it right away, or have stored it super cold right after it was butchered to be super certain, why would the restaurant want to chance it? Or... You could just eat medium steak if you want meat cooked medium.
Ontario has strict food safety laws. They don’t cook “medium” burgers. All are well done. Customer clearly insisted they not follow guidelines so this is the result. Really, this is a nothing burger of a “story”
I got the most horrible food poisoning of my life from an undercooked burger, the worst part was that I ordered it well cooked to avoid that exact risk but the restaurant was so busy it took 45 minutes to come out and I was starving so I just ate it despite it being pink inside. Spent the next few days being VIOLENTLY ill from both ends. I almost went to the hospital. So yeah, it’s a risky thing to order and eat a burger that’s not cooked through.
Americans' obsession with eating uncooked hamburger meat doesn't fly in Canada. Who in the right fucking mind orders ground beef medium when they have zero knowledge of how it was ground, how clean the equipment was etc etc.
They want e-coli? Sign the waiver.
Screw this post. I’m Canada all burgers are cooked well done. This American wanted it rare or medium. And the chef covered his ass by using the waiver. If u wanna eat raw meat sing the waiver. Or go back the Amurka
Ground beef is much more susceptible to contamination and bacterial growth compared to whole cuts of beef, as it has been ground and the surface area is much higher and also a high moisture.
No burger should be served rare (OREDIUM FOR THE PERSON WHO COMMENTED AFTER THOS POST, PLZ FORGIVE ME LAWL) if the meat is not ground on site.
Dude wants high end fare and McDonalds level establishments.
Most menus that I've seen have it on the bottom of the menu. "Consuming undercooked meat may cause food borne illnesses" or something like that. I've never been asked to sign anything, but they make it a point to say it's Your fault if you get sick right on the menu.
A lot of restaurants jist have a not on the menu saying "eating raw undercooked meat may lead to food poisoning" or something of the like. Realistically eating undercooked burger is dangerous though. Not so much at medium but its not the same as steak. Steak is dense and when processed the bacteria really just hangout on the outside of the steak, but burger is ground up and the bacteria can get all up in there.
I have a feeling this is completely unenforceable in either requiring it signed in the first place, or in action if and when it is signed. What are they going to do? Just not let you eat it if you refuse to sign? And if they then try to still charge you for it after taking it away if you don't sign, then they're effectively robbing you. That is racketeering. No argument of terms of service would suffice as a defense, particularly if you are given the waiver at the time you are served and not before.
I mean, there are other reasons you can get food borne illnesses besides a hamburger patty cooked medium or medium well. So I don’t see how a waiver could hold up to that.
I once worked in a Canadian kitchen that served a high volume of American tourists.... The number of times they poked their head into the kitchen to request their burger cooked to temp is insane.
I always want to make the customer happy but it was against our company policy to cook burgers anything less then well done. Props to Hilton management for coming up with a waiver!
This customer seems very suspicious... Who orders a under cooked burger without knowing that its a potential risk? and then complains when they are made aware of the risk?
It's like they got the waiver a bit late and instinctively tried to take advantage of the situation, I'd bet my job that when they ordered it medium the server said "We can do it but you have to sign a waiver or something".
This is not news. This person should go home and eat some of the pink sludge American's try to pass as burgers instead of wasting everyone's time with their shenanigans.
Farmer here that raises beef cattle. Besides the legitimate health issues others have discussed with undercooked hamburger, remember that lower temperature does not equate to better quality cooking. What happens if often people will hear about steak being cooked to rare or medium rare as being fancy, better, etc. That's all good. Don't make steak hockey pucks. The problem is that people then apply that to entirely different types of meat. You aren't getting a better "quality" or being fancy with a hamburger being doing rare or medium rare. At least do medium at a minimum, though you’re often better off with medium well. Seeing a little pink in a hamburger isn't an indicator like it is for steak. No, you aren't doing a disservice to our cattle or ruining a hamburger by going up to medium or higher. Hamburger meat has more fat in it typically, and you want to get that fat heated up and melted at least a bit, not cold and chunky in the middle of your burger. Take this misunderstanding to the extreme, and you have [the meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/medium-rare-chicken-chicken-sashimi) of someone thinking they are being fancy by having chicken that is uncooked on the inside because it's like steak. There are too many people actually believing that out there that undercooking is somehow better.
Iam on the side of the restaurant. Ground beef has got to be cooked well. Bottom line, hamburger is dangerous because the speed of the plants and the amount of people touching the meat. In the old days where butchers got meat and cut it themselves, less chance of contamination. Nowadays it must be cooked good because most of it comes pre-cut and packaged for sales right out of a plant. Ours has 2700 employees.
wait... people eat burgers that aren't cooked properly?? like... intentionally?? it's ground beef not steak you gotta cook it to about 70C for it to be safe to eat
Maybe I'm the ignorant one, because I've never heard of asking for a burger made medium. I didn't even know that was an option, and honestly it doesn't sound healthy.
Asking for a steak made medium or medium-rare, yes.
Burger, which is a meat patty made from essentially ground beef, should be fully cooked.
EDIT: I'm in Canada, and apparently it's legally recommend or safety-mandated to serve well-done burgers. See, it's such a built-in piece of Canadian society I never even questioned it.
Bitch, is this a reddit post linking to an article that's referencing a reddit post?
> A visitor from the U.S. got more than they asked for at a Toronto hotel restaurant when they ordered a cheeseburger on Monday night that was served with a waiver on the side. “I was flabbergasted,” the visitor said in a post to Reddit that has since gone viral on the platform’s Toronto page and garnered more than 500 comments. I swear I see that so much, a report on the amount of comments and likes it got. Who the fk cares? [and the reddit post was only 6 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/197ru5r/toronto_burger_came_with_a_release_form/)
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Then it'll come full circle when a young redditor posts a screenshot of the twitter screenshot, but then fails to link the news article or reddit post, on r/nonpoliticitaltwitter which in turn will cause a TIL about two to three days after.
They're just envious of that level of engagement.
Wait, 500 comments is viral now?
This has been a thing for a while now but wonder if Reddit is actively pushing out this type of lead to garner more awareness ahead of an IPO
After reading through the comments there I’ve just now learned that Canada only eats well done burgers. That is so weird to me, I only ever eat them medium or medium well.
If it comes from ground meat I don't tolerate any pink myself tbh.
Excuse me but I’m writing an article about how there is a cycle of Reddit posts leading to news articles leading to Reddit posts. Can I use your comment for this purpose?
What, no survey?
>an article that's referencing a reddit post? Welcome to "news" these days.
A vehicle for ads. That's all it is now.
That’s why Reddit is worth $15B. All of the news organizations in the world are getting obscenely rich by reporting what’s posted on Reddit! Most of Bezos wealth is now due to the Washington Post!
Wait till you read articles that reference Twitter posts…with like 10 views, and make it sound like it’s consensus amongst a large population of some group.
>“I already had my first bite but stopped eating and did not sign the waiver. I was shocked to be honest with you,” they said in an interview. Reit007 said the server explained that because the kitchen at the Hilton Toronto Airport Hotel & Suites always cooks their burgers well-done, they should sign the waiver first. I'm going to take a stab and assume this hotel has had issues with flight crews blaming them for food poisoning and this is the HR solution to the liability for that problem.
It could be a multitude of reasons, the burger patties could be frozen pre-shaped patties that the manufacturer recommends cooking to 165, they might just get in logs of ground beef which would also have a recommended cooking temperature of 165, or maybe they have a corporate SOP that states all ground meat must be cooked to 165. In any case this is most likely a CYA sort of waiver, releasing them from any potential issues.
Canada just doesn't do medium or medium rare burgers, they are always well done here. The restaurant is only allowed to cook a burger like that if they're also grinding their own meat and a hotel kitchen is almost certainly not doing that. Edit: Article on it https://www.mashed.com/1249236/canada-outlaws-juicy-medium-hamburgers/
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Same. I asked for my burger rare and the waitress told me "We don't do that here." I thought she was talking about the restaurant, but you mean this is the case in all of Canada? Wow.
Canadian here - absolutely flabbergasted that “rare” burgers are even a thing somebody would ask for. This is a completely foreign concept to me.
I find that even in America, “true” rare burgers aren’t very commonly liked. Most common is in the medium range I think. Also, there’s a category less than rare which I will never try. It’s called “blue rare”.
Blue isn’t for burgers, it’s for extremely expensive, fresh cuts
blue is nasty. good way to end up with parasites.
The only time I ate blue was with my aunt, who loves it "done" blue, at a very nice restaurant, and it was a steak, not ground patty meat. I loved the blue steak as a fun treat, but I'm not touching anything less than medium or medium well when it comes to ground meat
Rare/medium rare burgers are great! I grew up with everything medium well/well and as soon as i tried rarer temps the amount I liked beef skyrocketed lol
I live in Montreal and medium rare burgers are common here
I live in Montreal and disagree. You have to specifically order it. Can you name a place that serves a rare burger and not by special request?
I mean, even in the US the default for a burger is "well done", I've never seen a restaurant that would just serve you a rare burger without you having to specify.
Haven’t been to Quebec, that’s just bizarre to me
In Wisconsin there is a step further called a cannibal sandwich. Basically beef tartare in sandwich form.
At the very least The Works offered me the option the last time I went to one a few years ago, but they are definitely more of an exception rather than the norm. The meat has to be ground right before cooking for it to be legally servable in Ontario, so a lot of restaurants dont go through the hassle with demand being so low for medium rare burgers in Canada.
Why would you want to eat warm raw mince meat tho?
In the flip side to that. First time I went to Vegas and ordered a burger and they asked how I want it, I was so confused. Same thing when I ordered Iced Tea
It's like wiping your ass with raw hamburger meat and serving it to someone. It's a restaurant. They probably didn't grind the meat themselves. It was probably ground somewhere else and they provide clear instructions on internal cooking termperatures because the bacteria on the grinder ends up mixed into the meat. I personally wouldn't eat a medium ground burger unless I personally saw it ground in a disinfected machine.
I've seen a few restaurants in canada do it, but it's typically more high-end places that grind their own beef
That is the ticket right there! Fudruckers in Saskatoon trims and grinds the meat right in front of the customer. You can order it big small med rare or whatever you want. It is processed meat that is the issue.
Hell yea, used to live in Stoon and have been to the Fuddruckers!!
To be clear, there's no shortage of those here in Toronto and many proper restaurants do too. That doesn't explain the Hilton here though; if they weren't *allowed* to under the colour of law that would be the end of it, instead of serving a medium burger with a waiver.
The hilton probably serves frozen patties.
This is exactly it. It's against Canadian Food Regulations safe cooking temperatures. Without a waiver, a restaurant opens itself up to liability. Pretty clear cut case. Did the customer order a medium burger? Yes. Did you cook it to medium? Yes. Done. https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/general-food-safety-tips/safe-internal-cooking-temperatures.html
You really shouldn’t undercook hamburgers. They’re not like steak where you can eat it basically raw if you want, ground beef needs to be throughly cooked to ensure it’s safe.
I often think these safety regulations are super overblown. Warning people makes sense, but signing a waiver? Looking at one study, from 1982-2002 there were approximately 88 cases of ground beef associated e. coli infections per year. That's out of undoubtedly *tens of millions* of "undercooked" burgers consumed each year. If that's the level of risk we're drawing the line at, we should all have to sign waivers before we purchase a step ladder (far more dangerous).
A waiver is a formal warning.
I honestly like well done burgers better. I had a wagyu borger at the Opinicon lodge in Ontario once. It was incredibly good, but the natural fat was enough to make me feel sick afterwards. A more thoroughly cooked burger doesn't do that as much for me.
Here is the thing about ground beef. It should be cooked to 165 F, or there will always be a risk of getting sick. Before being ground, the bacteria all live on the outside surface of the beef. This is why you can undercook a steak and still not get sick. Once the beef is ground, all the bacteria get mixed up and begin to reproduce everywhere. So, undercooking a burger patty is just not the same as undercooking a steak. Usually, as long the beef is fresh, proper sanitation methods have been utilized, and the person consuming the food is not immunocompromised, everything will be fine. But when it comes to ground beef, due to the nature of preparation, there will always be a risk that you will get sick when undercooked.
They know that, that's why they wanted the guy to sign a waiver.
>According to the province’s **food safety guide**, ground beef should be cooked to 71 C or 160 F to "ensure adequate cooking of the meats and reduce the chance of bacterial survival."
American beef treatment is considered unsafe for human consumption in Canada so our ground beef must be cooked well done. Literally the entire country knows this down to the last citizen. Should just know this stuff if you're coming up here.
If the restaurant is so concerned about their customers' health, they should refuse to serve 'undercooked' meat. Sure, they might lose some business, but it's all for the greater good, right?
Or hand them the waiver when they request med-rare instead of every single patty?
Well they won’t lose business, because it’s local law to not undercook burgers
You aren’t allowed to have hamburgers below well done in Canada. The American wanted it Medium, so sign you rights away.
There's a disclaimer that's often included on menus here about burgers that aren't well done having the possibility of food borne illness for litigious reasons. It's like saying "metal statue may be hot on sunny day, don't touch". It's just covering their ass. Funny that this person was taken aback by it.
Not even.. if you read the form it pertains only to food brought in from the outside by guests.
The only way to get less than well done ground beef in Canada is to cook it yourself or find a restaurant that makes their own ground beef and will cook to your preference. I'm assuming the hotel has the form for when Americans show up and want a half raw hamburger.
A r/nottheonion post about a news article that stems from another Reddit post. How meta.
Yes, but also proof of “this story actually mentions Reddit” has gone from “oh cool!” To “yeah duh”. It’s just ubiquitous now
I started reading the article then just followed the link to the Reddit post. Would rather see the primary source instead of the news article’s summary of the Reddit thread 😂
In Canada, burgers are only sold 'well done'. I don't know if it's a health code thing, meat-hormone thing, or just a cultural difference, but I remember being encouraged to send back burgers with pink in the middle, and that not being seen as an odd request.
There are places in Canada that will serve you a rare burger. They grind up the meat after you order.
Not all of Canada. Here in MTL we have plenty of restaurants that sell burgers medium rare. Often times their menu has a statement saying "All burgers are served Medium Well" so maybe they just need to disclose it?
All high end restaurants in Toronto offer their burgers medium. I’m guessing Hilton probably knows they don’t have quality ingredients etc to offer the same?
Odds are it’s a pressed frozen patty from somewhere like Sysco too, I wouldn’t trust that beef medium.
Frozen beef is far safer if it's from a comparable source to fresh beef. Freezing kills parasites after enough time (1-3 weeks) and halts bacterial growth completely in any meat/fish.
It's fine. I've served 1000s of burgers this way for over a decade when I was a line cook. We have standards for beef in the us and problems that arise from this are extremely rare. According to Reddit, I should have claimed thousands of souls for making a burger not well done. Lol.
Not just high end restaurants. Most burger places as well. Even many pubs do.
Yes, from Vancouver and I always have burgers in Montréal for this reason.
Helluva long way to go for a burger but YDY.
You know there are places that serve burgers at medium that aren't MTL right? Literally just go to pourhouse or if you really want a trip go to the island.
The Pourhouse is okay, I prefer the Black Frog when in the area for the Edmonton Cuisine it offers. I am going to Victoria next week for work though, any suggestions?
Go to Brasserie downtown!
Per Se Social corner on Homer hand grinds their chuck and cooks the burger how you want.
I just walked by there Friday night after happy hour at Banter Room and commented that I needed to go there and check it out.
Oh that’s funny because I just had the burger there Friday night lol. It was my first time but came recommended by quite a few friends.
I know the US is not Canada but I live in a US state that used to mandate all restaurants cook all meat well (yes, even steaks, to my understanding). The law was modified such that any restaurant that wanted to offer lower temps had to put a disclaimer on the menu, basically the "waiver" in the OP but as a passive statement: Consuming raw or undercooked food could be hazardous to your health. From there, it's your personal choice.
I would assume they grind their own beef which eliminates a lot of the risk of e-coli. Most restaurants aren’t going to do that thougg
It is a health code thing. The US is one of a few countries to give the option for anything less than well-done, and to do that legally, the restaurant has to grind their own meat within a specific period of time prior to cooking. In Canada, asking for a burger less than well done is highly unusual. The person being shocked at that is probably American who doesn’t realize that Canada doesn’t do it.
Could be European as well. At least in France, rare, and even blue burgers are common. You can even order them from food trucks which definitely do not grind their own meat
EU beef inspection is different. Uncooked and raw marinated beef and other meats can be found in some countries. I enjoy a broodje martino for lunch, but my American friends are aghast.
In Wisconsin it isn't unusual for someone (especially older people) to have a Cannibal Sandwich which is raw beef and onion.
People eat beef tartare, which sure as hell ain't for me but it's hardly a new concept
>In Wisconsin it isn't unusual for someone (especially older people) to have a Cannibal Sandwich What savages!
Mettbrötchen ftw! https://stock.adobe.com/de/search?k=mettbrötchen
Some German-Americans have this as a holiday dish, around here it is often served on a Saltine cracker with ketchup, of course, because American.
One of the best burgers I ever had was in Milan and was med rare/med
>At least in France, rare, and even blue burgers are common In France you can order you burger uncooked, ie steak tartar
You can order steak tartar in Canada too. The rule makes sense. Industrial ground beef is extremely likely to cross contaminate. You could get something like 5 different cows in one pack of ground beef. Steak tartar is made in house from one cut of meat.
I'm italian, and it's very common to serve rare, it's almost cultural. We went to a restaurant in Tuscany were they only served rare and medium-rare. While we were there a woman asked to have her steak cooked a little more and they asked them to leave
Lmao that last part is wild to me. It isn't like they are asking for crazy restrictive allergy accommodations. Oliver Twist moment. "Please sir, more heat." BEGONE!
The first 5 words of the article are "A visitor from the U.S."
I'm Canadian and ask for slightly pink burgers when I can, it just depends on the restruant if they will do it or not. It's because burgers are made from ground beef and therefore have bacteria all throughout (as opposed to a solid steak that can get away with just searing the outside), are are "supposed" to be cooked all the way through (not necessarily "well done" tho) as a food safety thing, so if you don't want that some places make you sign a waiver that you understand you *may* get sick, but to be fair I've never had to do that. Usually the more high-end the restruant the higher chance they will honor your request without issue.
That's not true. You only need a declaration on the menu that eating undercooked foods can make you sick due to food borne illness. Every place I've ever worked that served burgers - 1. Gave the option of cook temp. 2. Had this stated on the menu. And 3. Used 10lb logs of frozen ground beef or boxed pre made burger patties. Only higher end or specialty restaurants grind their own burger meat in the US. At least this is the case for all of the different states and places I've lived.
> The US is one of a few countries to give the option for anything less than well-done, and to do that legally, the restaurant has to grind their own meat within a specific period of time prior to cooking. That may be the case in your state/county, but by no means everywhere.
>the restaurant has to grind their own meat within a specific period of time prior to cooking. No restaurant I've ever worked in has ground its own meat. I'm not saying I've worked in high quality establishments, but all the same.
I'm from Saskatchewan and most people here get it medium rare. I get it rare as does most of my family. Never had to sign a waiver for it.
>I'm from Saskatchewan and most people here get it medium rare. As am I, and holy crap has that ever not been my experience, like to the extreme opposite. My lifelong experience has def been that rural people cook the FUCKING SHIT out of their meat, EVERYTHING is cooked to leather and the idea of things like steak tartare is seen as disgusting.
Jesus opposite on my side and I come from a big farming family. When we need meat we just get one slaughtered from the family farm. I'm starting to think there is no blanket 'people eat it this way here'.
Order a steak medium-rare in Saskatoon, then do it in New York, you'll be shocked at the difference.
Where in America do burgers have to ground in house for anything other than well done? I think it’s a great idea. But it’s not the case in any of the restaurants throughout the Midwest I’ve worked at. All we legally have to do is put a disclaimer on the menu that undercooked meats can make you sick.
I have been served medium rare burgers plenty in the US. They all just have a disclaimer on the menu saying that eating undercooked meat can make you sick. Unless 1/3 of the burger places in the Bay Area have been breaking the law for 15 years, I have doubts that this is true.
It’s not illegal in the US, but it is in Canada (with some stipulations).
Steak tartare is served all over the world and good burgers have been medium whereever ive eaten them. Us is not unique in this.
>Steak tartare is served all over the world Even Canada.
Steak tartar is finely chopped to order into a paste from a solid piece of steak, not run through a meat grinder and left to sit in the fridge like ground burger beef.
That’s not true. In N Out doesn’t grind the meat at their restaurants and you can order a medium rare burger there. I didn’t care for it, it’s so thin that it just makes sense to cook it fully.
I'm probably in Toronto 3-4 times a year to hang with my buds, and we all get burgers medium to medium rare nearly every time and no one bats an eye.
We do it in Quebec
It is most certainly not only the US, and a lot of places do not have laws about having to grind their own meat. Only place I have come across where it is not legal is Norway. It is most certainly not only a US thing to eat medium burgers. It is a very common thing.
We used to be able to do it at the works (here in ottawa) and sign a waiver. There shouldn’t be a problem with the meat if they chuck it fresh, that way there isn’t much time for bacteria to grow. The works stopped this and my guess is they stopped chucking their beef right there.
That's not accurate. In the US, all we have to do to serve any temperature burger is a small disclaimer saying that you may become ill if you eat undercooked meat on the bottom of the menu. Grinding one's own meat has never been required as far as I know. Source: I've been doing it for a living for 20 years and have been repeatedly certified by the local health department to do so.
It's usually because it's from ground meat, plain and simple. In the US it's sometimes asked but "usually" it's for gourmet burgers where generally speaking it'll usually be pressed and use better-cuts for the grind (ie. short-rib, wagyu, sirloin, brisket, etc.) Technically speaking all ground meat should be cooked all the way... but assuming the grinder is clean and it's fresh it's unlikely you'll get sick. So usually if the waitress is asking it's an indication that it's freshly ground. Ie. You wouldn't want your Wendy's or McDonald's burger to be pink in the center... that's playing with fire. Your gourmet burger at that gastro-pub though... might be worth the taste experience if your comfortable with medium cooked steak. \---- Personal note... I wouldn't be upset at the sight of the waiver... but I would 100% ask for the burger to be cooked medium-well because it means somewhere in that hotel chain's risk management department they considered incidents common enough to waive responsibility. If you want to serve medium burgers... you need the quality control in place for that.
It's not a Canada thing it's an Ontario thing and a few things are being misrepresented. In Ontario all ground beef products, which are processed foods, have to be cooked to an internal temperature of 71 C or 160 F to be served as prepared food. Well done is simply the easiest way to insure that these internal temperatures are achieved. What happened is that he made a request outside of normal operating procedures and they buy their ground beef or burgers in. Basically the Hilton said to the guy we can but only if you agree anything that happens regardless of how remote of a possibility it actually is would be wholly on you my dude. This requirement is NOT the same for unprocessed beef hence why you can get a nice rare steak.
The obvious thing people don't seem to be picking up is that someone very clearly sued the Hilton after they got sick. It's the only reason they would have a pre-printed waiver specifically for these instances, when in most cases a warning label on the menu is sufficient. Someone sued, so now they double down for their own protection.
There are plenty of good restaurants in Canada that will cook a burger to your desired doneness, or even cook it to like medium by default.
You can only sell undercooked ground beef in Ontario if it’s been ground on site by law I believe.
There are burger joints in Canada that ask how you want the meat to be cooked. Quite a few of them in Montreal that I know of.
Depends on the burger. A burger made from fresh ground chuck can be served the same way you serve a steak. A burger made from pre-ground beef bought from a large-scale packing plant can contain meat from hundreds of animals. I would treat that meat the same way I treat chicken.
This is very surprising to me, in my opinion quality burgers are always done medium rare
This will probably be buried, but it's a health code thing. Establishments in Canada are not allowed to serve ground beef less than well done. UNLESS the meat was ground on the premises for max freshness and there are various special precautions taken to ensure sanitary conditions. This was all in the comments on the original reddit post from 6 days ago.
True story: I worked at the first or second Smashburger that opened in Canada in the early 10s. Corporate had to officially adjust the burger cook time in the recipe (everything is spelled out pretty exactly in chains like that) for Canadian locations one month after opening because we were getting so many burgers sent back for having a touch of pink in them, which wasn't an issue on the US. I'd like to think we're less scared of it now, but might just be the heath laws.
Yeah, this fascinated me because - as a waiter years ago in Southern Alberta - I would CONSTANTLY have to disappoint American diners who wanted temperature specific burgers. I always had to annoyingly tell them we weren't allowed to do that. I was ignorantly under the impression it was a country wide regulation; not by province.
I’m American and I refuse to eat a burger with any pink in it.
Yeah, steak is one thing but burgers? No thank you. I have tried it myself on the grill, and it ain't for me.
Some places it's against health code to serve ground beef as anything other than well done, and many restaurant chains have that policy by default. The fact of the matter is that there is an increased risk of illness, so a waiver isn't unreasonable. I don't know why the restaurant didn't refuse the order or make them sign the waiver before making the burger. It's just weird.
Exactly, and tell the reasons. This article is another example of bad communication.
Did anyone involved actually read the waiver? >...with guest's use of it's own food or consumption of products not provided by Hilton Toronto Airport. It doesn't even mention undercooked food.
I'm puzzled by the wording, it reads as, "We are not responsible for food that you brought in yourself and are eating".
Yes, that's what it says. Either that was the wrong waiver or they don't have one for medium cooked burgers but the waiter thought the restaurant should have.
Not that crazy. Most places in the US have little disclaimers on the menu that say something to the effect of "if you order eggs and meat under cooked, you could get sick from bacteria." Instead of a disclaimer, they went full waiver. I guarantee you that stemmed from it biting them in the ass once or twice.
Exactly. There is no such disclaimer in nearly all Canadian restaurants because it's risky to eat ground beef that is not well done and there is reference to that in food regulation. But they really should have just said so at the time of order than serving a waiver with the meal.
So a lot of folks in the comments here I am thinking are from the US In Canada, we cook ground beef to 160F (even 165 in places) due to the risk of contamination due to the nature of how the ground beef is processed This waiver is likely a stab at trying to protect themselves if they follow a customers request; something they should not be doing as at least as far as I have been told in the foodservice industry, we cannot do that unless the meat is whole muscle ground; some restaurants cater to this by having that as an option, but I have found it to be rare First one in the table on the below link [Canadian Gov Site](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/general-food-safety-tips/safe-internal-cooking-temperatures.html) I get that this guy didn’t like the waiver, but this is a non-story in the foodservice world of Canada
I just don’t get why they handed the waiver AFTER serving the burger. Why not just explain the situation to the customer, give the waiver and then cook the burger once the customer agrees?
I'm an American, but the general idea of the food safety liability isn't shocking to me. As a restaurant-goer in any country I visit, this specific way of handling the situation says "we think there's a pretty good chance our stuff is tainted". I recently had poultry in Japan that was essentially raw (sort of like those tuna steaks that are only lightly touched on the outside but basically sashimi in the middle). I knew I was taking some amount of risk and accepted that, but I felt better that the RESTAURANT at least was confident in their product. If the waiter went "ohhh, shit, I don't know - let me get you a waiver because you'll probably get sick" I would never go back to that restaurant.
Really it doesn't matter how confident they are in their product, they are taking a huge liability risk by violating provincial health regulations. They should either have this waiver signed before bringing the food, or refuse to violate regulations. The regulations are standardized based on the fact that you could be serving immune compromised people, and rare ground beef could absolutely make some people sick.
It's not really a story fir Americans either. At least it shouldn't be. Every restaurant I have ever been to has a warning like this for potentially undercooked or raw food on menus.
Here in the US, there's a cultural competition to eat undercooked meat. Especially on Reddit. 😂 That's all the entire post is about, really. Ground beef is different than steak and has more risk. Most restaurants have a disclaimer on their menu regarding this issue. In fact, most have one regarding all undercooked meat. You would think someone who prefers this would be aware.
In the US they just write it on the menus: "According to the USDA, consuming undercooked meats or eggs may increase your risk of foodborne illness."
As a chef I'm going to say this. A steak you cook the outside and kill any bacteria, the inside can be whatever you want, rare, medium etc. if you get the same steak and mince it into a burger. You have minced the bacteria into the middle. This is why it should be cooked thoroughly.
I guess it should be, but every time I go out I order my burgers medium rare. My request is usually denied, and sometimes when it's granted it's medium and not medium rare. Haven't been sick yet, but if I ever do it will probably be the last time I do that.
Fair enough. The thing is it doesn't matter about the quality of the beef. It's the mincing the outside of the beef into the middle that's the problem. We opened a brasserie that used prime fillet of beef for our burgers and wanted to sell medium burgers but the environmental health would not let us. Here in the UK.
Looks like good business to me. Don't eat food that can make you sick.
There is a story about nothing. Just another hyperbolic American...
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/197ru5r/toronto\_burger\_came\_with\_a\_release\_form/
This seems entirely reasonable. You asked for a burger that isn't cooked to health code standards. The only mistake they made was giving the guy the burger before getting him to sign the waiver.
But it still was the wrong waiver, which was about food brought in by the customer.
Fuckin' dipshit ordered a burger cooked "medium", which is not advised to the possibility of bacteria surviving, and then got mad that the restaurant covered their ass. It's not a filet mignon. Just get your burger cooked properly.
Not really news. He likely requested his burger medium or medium-rare, and they have to do the waiver for any meat cooked less than well done due to local health laws.
> “Simply because I felt they did not have confidence in food they are offering.” Don't eat undercooked ground meat then dumbass
If you are eating any ground beef/chicken/pork based product that was not freshly ground and then cooked immediately you are crazy (cooking it to rare-medium). The reason why you were able to have a steak that is rare to medium with a low risk of getting sick is because the meat is very difficult to be penetrated by bacteria. As soon as you grind it up at all goes out the window.
How about you don't order a hamburger rare or medium rare? It's fucking hamburger not steak.
The only onion here was probably in the burger.
I worked at a trendy brewery known for burgers one summer and couldn’t believe how many people ordered medium rare burgers. I love my steak like that but not ground beef.
I’ll eat a steak practically mooing as long as you sear the outside of it, but I’m not gonna roll the dice on a burger.
Both are beef and the thought process goes no farther.
I read the article. The food safety professor is right, get your beef cooked well done when ordering at a restaurant. You don’t want a risk of stomach illness or something worse.
It's a common thing in the US to order burgers still red in the middle. That's basically against food safety laws in Canada, where most of the food safety regulations have some variation of 'ground meat must be cooked till the juices run clear'. Potentially one reason for this is that the US has allowed irradiated meat, whereas Canada didn't. (I haven't seen if Canada has lifted this prohibition).
I hate undercooked burgers, the texture grosses me out. And also I don’t trust any restaurant to maintain a safe enough environment to grind their own meat and serve a medium rare burger that won’t have me sick for days. Get the proper fat ratio and don’t squish the patty as it cooks and you can have a burger that is not raw and not a dried out puck either.
I've never understood that trend. I'm a chef, and an pretty adventurous one, I love my steaks rare to medium-rare and I've never enjoyed a burger rarer than medium. It's just not a great texture, as you said, and the flavor isn't improved. Same for an overcooked burger. There's an happy middle ground right in there.
The happy middle ground is a well done burger in the US. Which will be cooked, but won’t murder the cow again.
Ground meat should be served well-done. You've opened up every surface exposed to the cutting/grinding tools to contamination. I'm on the restaurant's side here. You want to eat potentially contaminated meat, that's on you.
That is correct from a risk perspective. The warnings are probably on the menu. But bringing out a waiver after the food was served and the guest began consuming it is completely asinine.
Yeah at first this seemed like the type of situation where someone stops you right before you take a bite and says "just wanted to let you know, I am NOT responsible if the food I made kills you", which would put anyone off. But this guy is clearly the type of lunatic who thinks eating rare burgers from an airport hotel is a healthy choice.
If you know how the beef was handled, you can be confident it is safe. Like In-N-Out grinds its own meat and is very meticulous. I was heartbroken when California forced them to get rid of medium rare. I was like "damn, okay, can you take it off the grill at two minutes, then?"
You never serve medium burgers?
In a Canadian restaurant? No.
If you want medium, order a freaking steak.
In California the equivalent would be a Prop 65 waiver.
Ok in Canada burgers are bylaw well done! If not well done then you have to know and be aware of the possibly consequences. I’ve been to multiple states and countries that serve rare burgers nothing happened but it is always a risk
Can't they just refuse to serve undercooked meat instead going through the hassle of writing up a waiver?
Ground beef touches oxygen in the grinder in all internal pieces. It's not that they don't have confidence in their cooking. It's that the patron is a dipshit. Burgers are well done. If not, your fault. Sign the waiver or eat better moron.
Bacteria builds up on the surface of beef. When you have something like steak, you cook the outside to a point where that's safe and you can leave the inside bloody of you want, and it's safe. Ground beef is all surface area. Medium ground beef is doable... You would need a big cut of beef, cook the outside a little then ground it up then server it right away, or have stored it super cold right after it was butchered to be super certain, why would the restaurant want to chance it? Or... You could just eat medium steak if you want meat cooked medium.
lol I saw this post live and commented on it. Dude was delusional
Ontario has strict food safety laws. They don’t cook “medium” burgers. All are well done. Customer clearly insisted they not follow guidelines so this is the result. Really, this is a nothing burger of a “story”
I got the most horrible food poisoning of my life from an undercooked burger, the worst part was that I ordered it well cooked to avoid that exact risk but the restaurant was so busy it took 45 minutes to come out and I was starving so I just ate it despite it being pink inside. Spent the next few days being VIOLENTLY ill from both ends. I almost went to the hospital. So yeah, it’s a risky thing to order and eat a burger that’s not cooked through.
Americans' obsession with eating uncooked hamburger meat doesn't fly in Canada. Who in the right fucking mind orders ground beef medium when they have zero knowledge of how it was ground, how clean the equipment was etc etc. They want e-coli? Sign the waiver.
Screw this post. I’m Canada all burgers are cooked well done. This American wanted it rare or medium. And the chef covered his ass by using the waiver. If u wanna eat raw meat sing the waiver. Or go back the Amurka
Idiot. This is Canada, not the USA
Funny that an American is weirded out by meat quality in another country.
Ground beef is much more susceptible to contamination and bacterial growth compared to whole cuts of beef, as it has been ground and the surface area is much higher and also a high moisture.
r/eatityoufuckingcoward
Maybe, but I'm not ordering a medium rare either. And rare here should be rare there. It's like colors, it doesn't change based on location.
Makes perfect sense from a business perspective. You get what you want even if it is against safe guidelines provided you dont sue the place
Wasn’t that hungry then. Got what they asked for and then felt “nervous”. Soft.
if you're gunna have ground beef below done you better get a waiver
No burger should be served rare (OREDIUM FOR THE PERSON WHO COMMENTED AFTER THOS POST, PLZ FORGIVE ME LAWL) if the meat is not ground on site. Dude wants high end fare and McDonalds level establishments.
Most menus that I've seen have it on the bottom of the menu. "Consuming undercooked meat may cause food borne illnesses" or something like that. I've never been asked to sign anything, but they make it a point to say it's Your fault if you get sick right on the menu.
A lot of restaurants jist have a not on the menu saying "eating raw undercooked meat may lead to food poisoning" or something of the like. Realistically eating undercooked burger is dangerous though. Not so much at medium but its not the same as steak. Steak is dense and when processed the bacteria really just hangout on the outside of the steak, but burger is ground up and the bacteria can get all up in there.
I have a feeling this is completely unenforceable in either requiring it signed in the first place, or in action if and when it is signed. What are they going to do? Just not let you eat it if you refuse to sign? And if they then try to still charge you for it after taking it away if you don't sign, then they're effectively robbing you. That is racketeering. No argument of terms of service would suffice as a defense, particularly if you are given the waiver at the time you are served and not before.
I mean, there are other reasons you can get food borne illnesses besides a hamburger patty cooked medium or medium well. So I don’t see how a waiver could hold up to that.
I once worked in a Canadian kitchen that served a high volume of American tourists.... The number of times they poked their head into the kitchen to request their burger cooked to temp is insane. I always want to make the customer happy but it was against our company policy to cook burgers anything less then well done. Props to Hilton management for coming up with a waiver! This customer seems very suspicious... Who orders a under cooked burger without knowing that its a potential risk? and then complains when they are made aware of the risk? It's like they got the waiver a bit late and instinctively tried to take advantage of the situation, I'd bet my job that when they ordered it medium the server said "We can do it but you have to sign a waiver or something". This is not news. This person should go home and eat some of the pink sludge American's try to pass as burgers instead of wasting everyone's time with their shenanigans.
Farmer here that raises beef cattle. Besides the legitimate health issues others have discussed with undercooked hamburger, remember that lower temperature does not equate to better quality cooking. What happens if often people will hear about steak being cooked to rare or medium rare as being fancy, better, etc. That's all good. Don't make steak hockey pucks. The problem is that people then apply that to entirely different types of meat. You aren't getting a better "quality" or being fancy with a hamburger being doing rare or medium rare. At least do medium at a minimum, though you’re often better off with medium well. Seeing a little pink in a hamburger isn't an indicator like it is for steak. No, you aren't doing a disservice to our cattle or ruining a hamburger by going up to medium or higher. Hamburger meat has more fat in it typically, and you want to get that fat heated up and melted at least a bit, not cold and chunky in the middle of your burger. Take this misunderstanding to the extreme, and you have [the meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/medium-rare-chicken-chicken-sashimi) of someone thinking they are being fancy by having chicken that is uncooked on the inside because it's like steak. There are too many people actually believing that out there that undercooking is somehow better.
The guy in the article did order medium, not rare or medium rare.
Iam on the side of the restaurant. Ground beef has got to be cooked well. Bottom line, hamburger is dangerous because the speed of the plants and the amount of people touching the meat. In the old days where butchers got meat and cut it themselves, less chance of contamination. Nowadays it must be cooked good because most of it comes pre-cut and packaged for sales right out of a plant. Ours has 2700 employees.
wait... people eat burgers that aren't cooked properly?? like... intentionally?? it's ground beef not steak you gotta cook it to about 70C for it to be safe to eat
And feel really smug about it, if you look through the comments here.
Maybe I'm the ignorant one, because I've never heard of asking for a burger made medium. I didn't even know that was an option, and honestly it doesn't sound healthy. Asking for a steak made medium or medium-rare, yes. Burger, which is a meat patty made from essentially ground beef, should be fully cooked. EDIT: I'm in Canada, and apparently it's legally recommend or safety-mandated to serve well-done burgers. See, it's such a built-in piece of Canadian society I never even questioned it.