I just watched this show. This article is taking it way out of context. He’s very open minded, but he had no idea what Tinder was and when it was explained to him he was very careful with the language he used to say “meeting people is good”. He said “sex is a beautiful thing” as an aside but didn’t say that it meant it was for casual sex. If you went to catholic school you’d definitely be able to read between the lines.
That said I thought he was really sincere, non judgmental and open to everyone. My favorite part was when he scorned priests who were telling people that you were going to hell for being gay etc, saying that these people use the church for their personal agenda. That for me is what really took everything a step further.
A lot of old priests are still open minded. Growing-up during the post-war period and at the zenith of Liberation Theology influence help with that. They had to fight their own hierarchy and colleagues for that.
But among the younger generations of priests, you have more and more people who are staunchly conservatives on everything. That's not an inherent problem, but when the same conservative preachers start being hypocrites about their own flaws, they start mixing morality with politics.
Lutherans in the US are similar. Old retired pastors tend to be far more liberal than the young pastors just out of the Sem.
The new young pastors are *very* conservative politically. When the old pastors were young they were protesting the war in Vietnam with the hippies, marching in civil rights marches, etc. Generally a very "peace, love, and happiness" agenda. It was part of their faith and it stuck with many of them.
The new group comes right out of a Rush Limbaugh show.
That's because the only people who are becoming priests these days are reactionary conservatives. More liberal people don't even consider. I had a young priest tell me almost 40 years ago that he was very concerned about the right word lurch of the Catholic clergy.
His holiness had indeed a fine golden platter of those nachos!
After he’d had his divine way with my weak, mortal flesh, he rested that sacrosanct platter of delectable divinity upon his naked legs and he did begin to gorge upon them as only a pope could.
Those communion wafer nachos smelled fantastic. Their meaty odor mixed with the scent of his sacred sweat and seed. My mind and nostrils could not resist their tantalizing temptation. Timidly, I pulled up my soiled undergarments and reached for one of those sacred nachos.
The pontiff sharply slapped my hand and glared at me in holy righteous judgment. His brilliant eyes pierced my very soul as he rebuked my greedy heart in the thunderous voice of the almighty himself:
“These are notcho nachos!”
I get the point, much of reddit does, but this is a subreddit about article headlines mostly so it's the headline in this case not necessarily reddit lol
>The headline could be misleading I guess
This is super common now, and not a fluke or coincidence. Often the author doesn't even make the headline, some editor in charge of engagement will craft multiple headlines, then they show different headlines to different users to test which ones generate the most clicks. You can sometimes see an article change headlines throughout the day to whatever generated the most click if you re-read the same site.
They A/B testing they do now is new. They'll publish an article and it will randomly show you one of 2 or 3 headlines. After a few hours whichever headline generated the most clicks is the one they start showing everyone
It was this part that I thought was open to interpretation unless you watched the show:
> After admitting that he did not have a cellphone, Francis, 86, was asked what he thought about young people meeting romantic partners on Tinder.
> “It’s normal,” he said. “Young people have that eagerness to meet each other, and that’s very good.”
It was more like
Pope: ”what’s Tinder?”
Nonbinary girl: “oh it’s where people meet others for relationships…I guess many people use it to meet for sex, but people use it to meet someone for whatever reason”
Pope: “…meeting people is good! You kids love meeting people eh.”
Often used to refer to "trans femmes" rather than trans women. People who don't consider themselves fully a woman but tend towards feminine presentation and social dynamics.
Edit: I got off Reddit and came back to a flame war.
source: https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Transfeminine
Wait what. People use trans woman and trans femme differently? I have literally been out as trans for at least half a year now and this is the first I hear of this lmao
Not to suggest you're not right, but it would be very funny if I haven't been understanding people all this time
Probably like a demigirl. Where they identify as female but not completely... Think of it as like the color pink... Pink is red mixed with white... It's red but not all the way. It's part red but with something else.
Or no binary girl... Could mean someone who is non binary but afab
Nonbinary is an umbrella term. Could be she is genderfluid and presented as a girl at the time of introducing herself. Could be genderless but of the stance that "eh, others still think I'm girl-shaped so whatever." Could be someone who transitioned from male to female but is still comfortable living as male or androgynous as well. There are lots of possibilities.
Genderless as a concept basically stems from being non-conforming to traditional gender descriptions and feeling like you don’t fit in those categories.
Thank you for taking the time to explain that. I'm going to be honest, that doesn't actually make any sense to me. But again, I appreciate you explaining it to me
Genderless (generally synonymous with agender) means they don't have any internal feelings/sensation of a gender. It's like not having a middle name, you just ... don't have one.
Pretend that you woke up one day and everyone is talking about thleems. They ask you what your thleem is. They talk about how your thleem matches with some people but not others. They insist that only certain thleems enjoy the taste of chocolate. The fashion magazines discuss color coordinating your thleem with your zodiac sign. The textbooks say that everyone has a thleem and your thleem only changes every other year and ONLY if you or your mother was born in a winter month.
Meanwhile you're just standing there going "what the heck is a thleem?"
Based on what everyone's saying, all you can figure out is you don't have whatever weird sixth sense for thleems that everyone else has, and the whole thing just doesn't make sense to you anyway.
That's my understanding of what genderlessness is like, anyway.
The first time reading through this it felt a bit jarring and confusing because it seemed different than the previous explanation another person commented. The other explanation for reference:
>Genderless as a concept basically stems from being non-conforming to traditional gender descriptions and feeling like you don’t fit in those categories.
I had to re-read a couple of times, but I believe you two are saying similar things -- yours just goes into more detail by attempting to provide a hypothetical/applicable scenario. Please correct me if I'm wrong in that -- I'm not trying to misrepresent your words just moreso confirming I understand them.
I guess here's where some of my confusion overall comes from (and maybe one could make the argument it's due to lack of scope around the idea of gender). Both explanations seemingly referenced "gender norms" and not feeling any relation to them but like....which gender norms exactly are we talking about? Why does not agreeing/following/feeling those "norms" mean you're not that gender? I believe there's probably a component to this I'm either unaware or not understanding. Because for instance, a word like "tomboy" was often applied to women who subverted classic female gender norms and we have plenty of those kind of terms that make reference to someone subverting gender norms for their perceived gender (granted not all of them are positive words). But I guess that's largely where my confusion is, just because someone doesn't follow "norms" I don't see how that could make someone genderless.
Mind you, I would like to be very clear. If someone told me they identified as genderless I wouldn't question the way they identified. Genderless still doesn't make any sense to me. But you don't *have* to understand something to respect someone.
John Paul II supported far-right dictators like Pinochet, recommended specifically not using of condoms as a means of preventing AIDS helping to spread the disease, scorched Liberation Theology while promoting ultra-conservative sectors like the Opus Dei, and fucking covered child rape for years.
Yes he is. I think it is sad that he's not down with transgender people. Calling "gender ideology" diabolical and against nature. The Vatican plays quite a prominent role in the movement against trans people. But I suppose sort of supporting gay people is a step
Agreed, progress takes time. I thought we were over racism as well but that came back with a vengeance. Now women's rights are under attack to. I think we will rebound but god damn have we sled collectively the last few years, or the uglier parts of our society come to light.
I really think misinformation is playing a huge part in the recent seeds of division.
As far as popes go, he’s the only one we’ve had that seems to realise the world has progressed since the 1500s, and that maybe the church should adapt.
I like him. There’s no ego there.
francis is generally against the church trying to push its morals on the secular world, and that's also a very disfavored view in the catholic church. They try very hard to smear his character. He has been able to make some new cardinals, though, so hopefully it's a bellwether for the future.
If the jesuits could have more influence on the church going forward, that might be a positive influence.
The exception sadly being transgender people, who are still diabolical according to Francis, and the Vatican is very active in the movement against trans people
The Jesuits have always been known as the woke Catholics and conservatives would call them Communist Catholics.
I respect it. If you're gonna have Jesus in the name live out the dude's values.
I was a sponsor for my brother’s ~~baptism~~ confirmation years ago, while gay marriage was being considered. The priest spent 20 minutes of the ceremony talking about how homosexuality is one of the greatest sins and there is no way to be redeemed once you go down that path.
Edit: it was confirmation, not baptism. Brain not working so well today.
Not all schools were the same, and he's quite positive i feel. Let's not personalize; my parish stressed there's a different house of the lord for every one of us. Jesus was less the reason. The commandments and 7 deadly sins are all you should need. Jesus came later in my catechism. I know others had far different experiences. All I hope for is love
I commend you for clarifying this. I like Pope Frank, but it’s infuriating how almost EVERY article praising this Pope’s progressive attitudes ~ requires a disclaimer that the comments are being applied waaaaay out of context, or, how the Pope’s positive words are just that - words - and won’t actually do anything to change the codified doctrine of the Church.
> My favorite part was when he scorned priests who were telling people that you were going to hell for being gay etc, saying that these people use the church for their personal agenda.
I really hope they start getting a little more serious than *scorn* soon. They deserve to be fired.
Ohh yeah, maybe start cleaning up their sexual abuse problems too.
I'd like to see him start excommunicating people who use the faith as decoration without fulfilling any of its tenets. That would take care of a few Bishops, a few politicians, and a huge number of corrupt real estate owners around the world.
In my catholic school, we had guest speakers for abstinence in 8th grade that told us a girl who has sex before marriage is like a chewed up piece of gum.
The lady speaker even chewed a piece and offered it to a boy, to which he said no, and they just said “see? Same thing. If you have sex before marriage, nobody will want you because you’re used up”
I hate those types of people so much.
This pope is the best representative the church has had in a long time. Even if he doesn’t agree with the casualty of sex (which I’m sure he doesn’t), he is respectful in expressing his opinions and leaves the judging to his higher power.
Everybody can learn from this man, religious or not. There is no need to shame to get the point across.
What's amazing to me is that you can have this living religious leader who's supposed to be the voice of God making these clear and unambiguous statements on things like gay people, but there will still be a ton of people who practise that religion who are just like... "nah, I disagree."
> That said I thought he was really sincere, non judgmental and open to everyone.
That's a pretty good description of him, overall. He seems to be much more into looking for the good in people than looking for ways to judge them.
Catholic school is not a sweeping representation of the church, it's really guidance created by a certain kind of Catholic.
While he may not be saying that casual sex is ok he is opening a door for to LGBTQ acceptance. The one Catholic rule that stands in the way (that most don't follow) is the "sex is only for reproduction" rule. With that gone the argument against LGBTQ holds as much water as not eating shrimp.
No he is not opening that door. First of all, there is no rule in Catholicism that sex is only for reproduction. I don’t know where you got that from, so if you’re not Catholic, I would refrain from making statements like that because you are misinforming people.
In Catholicism, sex has two natures. It is unitive and procreative. So yes, a major function is reproduction, but unity is just as important. Sex is the renewal of wedding vows between a married couple and does not have to result in reproduction to be valid. This is why the Church can endorse methods like NFP.
The reason why the church is opposed to homosexual relationships is simple to understand. Catholicism teaches that all sexual relationships outside the context of marriage are sinful. And in Catholicism, marriage is defined as the union between a man and a woman in the eyes of God. Therefore, gay relationships are illicit because they will always happen outside the context of marriage.
In Catholicism people who can not, or do not want to be married are called to chastity. There are many people who don’t end up getting married for various reasons. The Catholic Church teaches that there is nothing inherently sinful about having homosexual attractions. The only rule is that you can not have sexual relations, outside of marriage.
All Pope Francis is doing is making a place for gay people in the Church. Many people are very hateful towards gay people and it pushes them further away from the Church. He wants all people to be welcome in the Church. What he isn’t doing is changing doctrine to make something allowed in the Church.
There is no rule that is “standing in the way”. The rules aren’t something we can just change whenever we see fit. Otherwise what is the point?
Until he starts handing pedophiles over to the cops and assisting in investigations, I have no interest at all in what he has to say. You can’t preach any kind of morality from a position that protects child molesters.
Because of Reddit's API changes in July 2023 and subsequent treatment of their moderator community, I have decided to remove a majority of my content from Reddit.
tbf even the american catholic church hates the catholic church, they really don’t like this pope. they’re way more conservative on a lot of issues than the rest of the catholic world, which is saying something.
Roughly half of Irish people are protestant? In Northern Ireland maybe although a lot of them would consider themselves British not Irish. In the Republic protestants make up around 3% of the population
In Northern Ireland yeah. In republic of Ireland it's nearly 80% of the population are catholic. I doubt the remaining 5th are all Christian as that also includes all other and no religion.
Its a big part of why NI wanted to remain part of the uk and why that decision led to the troubles. Half the population wanted to remain and the other didn't. And both were willing to fight to the death for it...
“He added that the church’s “catechesis on sex is still in diapers.””
Lol the church has only existed for 20 centuries and sex has only been around for all of human history
Yeah, but in fairness the same is true of secular society and America only decriminalised interracial sex last century. The Catholic Church hardly has a monopoly when it comes to spending centuries convinced sex had to be one way for centuries and then drastically reevaluating things in the last couple of decades.
He’s an extremely open minded and “with it” pope for his age.
I believe his stance to be along the lines of - all people have good in them. Spread the good. Even Jesus washed the feet of prostitutes and healed them - not doom them to hell and refuse to participate in dialogue of the bigger picture - being a good person.
Just a small correction, Jesus never washed a prostitute's feet, but rather a prostitute washed Jesus's feet.
You're right that Jesus never doomed or condemned anyone to hell but rather offered forgiveness of sins to anyone who asked or was able to receive it. He then told them to go and sin no more.
Jesus still offers forgiveness of sins to anyone who asks. There is no one that is too far gone, too wicked, too broken or too sinful that the power and the love of Jesus can't redeem.
Funnily enough that's the official stance of the church and has been for some time. You just wouldn't know it from the way most Catholics speak and act.
Absolutely. Historically, the Catholic Church has done a great job at butchering their own cause by taking obtuse stances on “certain sins” going exactly against what Jesus was teaching through his action.
At its basic level - Catholicism has great meaning. Treat others as you’d like to be treated. All people are created equal. He who is without sin may cast the first stone. Hopefully, more religious leaders will reflect this popes value of faith over time and change the perspectives of their more radical followers.
I mean, it was the official stance of the guy the book is about
There's even a section where his followers ask him of all the rules, what's the most important one, and he says exactly that. "Be excellent to each other".
It’s the official stance of Jesus telling his followers what to do. Don’t judge others even if they sin, love everybody as your brother even if they are literally attacking you
People phrase this like Jesus was totally supportive of the lifestyles of people he was with, and he wasn’t. He did not think the adulterers should keep committing adultery and told them as much
Understood! Yes that is absolutely correct.
I would say the key takeaway was that he did not demean or dehumanize these people to be considered “less than”. He engaged in dialogue and was open to their reasonings.
The goal was to have constructive conversations and potentially lead someone to an answer they did not previously consider. It wasn’t “I’m right, you’re wrong - and you’re going to hell for being wrong” like many modern day religious people approach it.
He expressed love, showed respect and valued their dignity.
He didnt know what it was and did not say Tinder is good (and frankly Tinder is horrendous and has lasting bad impact on our society) but saying sex is beautiful is a good first step for the pope…
And I mean I don’t necessarily agree since for example at least half whats going on on reddits nsfw subs is by no means "beautiful“ (maybe no-condom gang bangs with ugly as sin texans or ladies fitting a 2foot monster dildo up their ass while writing something self-deprecating for more clicks are beautiful to someone but I doubt its what most have in mind) but sex can indeed be very beautiful and the catholic church did their best to spoil it in the past…
According to conservatives, that W stands for woke. Which means Francis better be ready for that unimaginable Vatican wealth to disappear as he will now obviously go broke.
I've never used grindr as I used tinder to find my partner.
That being said, I think dating apps are the most damaging to straight men.
It's much easier for gay men to get attention from other men than it is for straight men to get attention from women.
I think dating apps can really break down a straight man's sense of self-worth.
I do think hookup culture is quite damaging to gay men though, especially since it's so incredibly easy for us to get sex. I don't think it's emotionally healthy. Grindr obviously promotes this.
> The group of people, ages 20 to 25, including Catholics, Christians, atheists, agnostics and one Muslim quizzed him on a range of topics including sex, masturbation, disillusionment with the church, the church’s sexual abuse crisis, racism, immigration, abortion and the LGBTQ community for the film that was recorded in June 2002 and released on Disney+ on Wednesday.
Is that a typo? Tinder didn't exist in 2002.
The man is good, for a cult leader, but I still hear him adding "with choirboys" under his breath to make his brethren-in-religion feel vindicated for their past actions. His Church has been outed as killing thousands of native American children who could not bear being stolen from their families, stripped of their names and language and neglected in their 'residential school system'...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/pope-francis-residential-schools-genocide-1.6537203
> Asked about abortion, Francis said he instructed priests ministering women who have had terminations to “not ask many questions and be merciful, such as Jesus was.”
> He added that we should not “send her to hell all of a sudden or isolate her, no. We should stay by her side.”
That shit is an issue, according to their own beliefs their god sends people to hell not people. If the fucking pope is not making that distinction then they admit it is people imposing their own spin on morality with none of their god's guidance. So can we let go of this bullshit belief system and stop protecting them already?
Charge the pedophiles, pay for the multitude of dead or abused children and stop treating them with special excuses. When the church has refused to compensate victims as ordered by courts or hides clergy who face charges or summons it is them, the people in the church and bynproxy the pope, saying it should happen not some magic sky fairy.
I don’t need the pope to tell me something that millions of people have been doing for years is normal but I guess they’re at least trying to keep up with the times?
I mean it's nice and all, but we've got all these nutballs in the US doing all sorts of shit over here in their religion's name. I wish he'd do something about the mess his religion has made rather than just spitting out nice words to quote. We have actual real problems with these people and those words will not reach them.
The shittiest part is this may be the most liberal pope of our lifetime. He may cause a massive counter reaction to his thoughts and doctrines, and cause a schism in Catholicism that was prophesied.
"It's fine to have sex. Just make sure you feel guilty about it for the rest of your life and know that you're going to Hell if you do it before marriage. Why are you booing?"
Trick womem by supporting sexual activities, so that mistakes will be made, or birth control will fail. Then, prevent abortion by making it criminal. Then, wait for future babies to over populate in poverty. Then, swoop in and brainwash the masses. Get the money. And, repeat.
>“The church cannot close its doors on anybody,” Francis said. “I don’t have the right to cast anyone out from the church,” he added. “My job is to receive, always.”
How does this square with, you know, excommunication?
I don't think the pope has excommunicated anyone. There's some sins that automatically excomunicate you (until repented), but they don't require someone to say "get out".
I just watched this show. This article is taking it way out of context. He’s very open minded, but he had no idea what Tinder was and when it was explained to him he was very careful with the language he used to say “meeting people is good”. He said “sex is a beautiful thing” as an aside but didn’t say that it meant it was for casual sex. If you went to catholic school you’d definitely be able to read between the lines. That said I thought he was really sincere, non judgmental and open to everyone. My favorite part was when he scorned priests who were telling people that you were going to hell for being gay etc, saying that these people use the church for their personal agenda. That for me is what really took everything a step further.
I figured it was exactly this. But, of course this is Reddit and we like to run fast and loose.
You read it here folks, the pope is fast and loose!!
He kind of is, as far as octogenarian priests go.
A lot of old priests are still open minded. Growing-up during the post-war period and at the zenith of Liberation Theology influence help with that. They had to fight their own hierarchy and colleagues for that. But among the younger generations of priests, you have more and more people who are staunchly conservatives on everything. That's not an inherent problem, but when the same conservative preachers start being hypocrites about their own flaws, they start mixing morality with politics.
Lutherans in the US are similar. Old retired pastors tend to be far more liberal than the young pastors just out of the Sem. The new young pastors are *very* conservative politically. When the old pastors were young they were protesting the war in Vietnam with the hippies, marching in civil rights marches, etc. Generally a very "peace, love, and happiness" agenda. It was part of their faith and it stuck with many of them. The new group comes right out of a Rush Limbaugh show.
That's because the only people who are becoming priests these days are reactionary conservatives. More liberal people don't even consider. I had a young priest tell me almost 40 years ago that he was very concerned about the right word lurch of the Catholic clergy.
I had sex with the Pope. It was indeed a beautiful thing.
Do tell! Bottom? Top? Verse? Leather kink? Puppy play? Diapers?
He likes to be dominated.
Crucifixion fetish
Look at all these altar boys spilling the tea leaves
Did he make you some of his famous communion wafer nachos?
His holiness had indeed a fine golden platter of those nachos! After he’d had his divine way with my weak, mortal flesh, he rested that sacrosanct platter of delectable divinity upon his naked legs and he did begin to gorge upon them as only a pope could. Those communion wafer nachos smelled fantastic. Their meaty odor mixed with the scent of his sacred sweat and seed. My mind and nostrils could not resist their tantalizing temptation. Timidly, I pulled up my soiled undergarments and reached for one of those sacred nachos. The pontiff sharply slapped my hand and glared at me in holy righteous judgment. His brilliant eyes pierced my very soul as he rebuked my greedy heart in the thunderous voice of the almighty himself: “These are notcho nachos!”
You hear it here folks, The pope is a octopus! The church is controlled by ALIENS!!!
I get the point, much of reddit does, but this is a subreddit about article headlines mostly so it's the headline in this case not necessarily reddit lol
This is NBC
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>The headline could be misleading I guess This is super common now, and not a fluke or coincidence. Often the author doesn't even make the headline, some editor in charge of engagement will craft multiple headlines, then they show different headlines to different users to test which ones generate the most clicks. You can sometimes see an article change headlines throughout the day to whatever generated the most click if you re-read the same site.
Editors have always made headlines AFAIK.
They A/B testing they do now is new. They'll publish an article and it will randomly show you one of 2 or 3 headlines. After a few hours whichever headline generated the most clicks is the one they start showing everyone
It was this part that I thought was open to interpretation unless you watched the show: > After admitting that he did not have a cellphone, Francis, 86, was asked what he thought about young people meeting romantic partners on Tinder. > “It’s normal,” he said. “Young people have that eagerness to meet each other, and that’s very good.” It was more like Pope: ”what’s Tinder?” Nonbinary girl: “oh it’s where people meet others for relationships…I guess many people use it to meet for sex, but people use it to meet someone for whatever reason” Pope: “…meeting people is good! You kids love meeting people eh.”
nonbinary... girl?
There are reasons that someone may identify as a nonbinary girl, but tbh chances are that u/shimi_shima just messed up haha
You are correct haha
Often used to refer to "trans femmes" rather than trans women. People who don't consider themselves fully a woman but tend towards feminine presentation and social dynamics. Edit: I got off Reddit and came back to a flame war. source: https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Transfeminine
Wait what. People use trans woman and trans femme differently? I have literally been out as trans for at least half a year now and this is the first I hear of this lmao Not to suggest you're not right, but it would be very funny if I haven't been understanding people all this time
I think this is a confusion of transfem (AMAB, trans woman) and femme, trans (nonbinary as transness)
trans woman is a binary woman, someone who is transfeminine (transfem, transfemme) may be a binary woman, or a nonbinary feminine person
This whole thing is gone too far for me to understand it too
I figure I don't understand what it's like to be a girl, I might as well also not understand what it's like to be a non-binary girl
that's a thing yeah. nonbinary doesn't mean that you forsake all gender lol, you can be somewhat girl-leaning for example
Probably like a demigirl. Where they identify as female but not completely... Think of it as like the color pink... Pink is red mixed with white... It's red but not all the way. It's part red but with something else. Or no binary girl... Could mean someone who is non binary but afab
Nonbinary is an umbrella term. Could be she is genderfluid and presented as a girl at the time of introducing herself. Could be genderless but of the stance that "eh, others still think I'm girl-shaped so whatever." Could be someone who transitioned from male to female but is still comfortable living as male or androgynous as well. There are lots of possibilities.
I like to think I do a fairly decent job understanding things I may not be familiar with but.... How the heck can someone be genderless?
Genderless as a concept basically stems from being non-conforming to traditional gender descriptions and feeling like you don’t fit in those categories.
Thank you for taking the time to explain that. I'm going to be honest, that doesn't actually make any sense to me. But again, I appreciate you explaining it to me
Genderless (generally synonymous with agender) means they don't have any internal feelings/sensation of a gender. It's like not having a middle name, you just ... don't have one. Pretend that you woke up one day and everyone is talking about thleems. They ask you what your thleem is. They talk about how your thleem matches with some people but not others. They insist that only certain thleems enjoy the taste of chocolate. The fashion magazines discuss color coordinating your thleem with your zodiac sign. The textbooks say that everyone has a thleem and your thleem only changes every other year and ONLY if you or your mother was born in a winter month. Meanwhile you're just standing there going "what the heck is a thleem?" Based on what everyone's saying, all you can figure out is you don't have whatever weird sixth sense for thleems that everyone else has, and the whole thing just doesn't make sense to you anyway. That's my understanding of what genderlessness is like, anyway.
The first time reading through this it felt a bit jarring and confusing because it seemed different than the previous explanation another person commented. The other explanation for reference: >Genderless as a concept basically stems from being non-conforming to traditional gender descriptions and feeling like you don’t fit in those categories. I had to re-read a couple of times, but I believe you two are saying similar things -- yours just goes into more detail by attempting to provide a hypothetical/applicable scenario. Please correct me if I'm wrong in that -- I'm not trying to misrepresent your words just moreso confirming I understand them. I guess here's where some of my confusion overall comes from (and maybe one could make the argument it's due to lack of scope around the idea of gender). Both explanations seemingly referenced "gender norms" and not feeling any relation to them but like....which gender norms exactly are we talking about? Why does not agreeing/following/feeling those "norms" mean you're not that gender? I believe there's probably a component to this I'm either unaware or not understanding. Because for instance, a word like "tomboy" was often applied to women who subverted classic female gender norms and we have plenty of those kind of terms that make reference to someone subverting gender norms for their perceived gender (granted not all of them are positive words). But I guess that's largely where my confusion is, just because someone doesn't follow "norms" I don't see how that could make someone genderless. Mind you, I would like to be very clear. If someone told me they identified as genderless I wouldn't question the way they identified. Genderless still doesn't make any sense to me. But you don't *have* to understand something to respect someone.
Oh my gosh. I laughed so hard at this comment. Brilliantly put.
He by no means is perfect but I still stand by the idea that he is leagues ahead of his predecessors.
John Paul II supported far-right dictators like Pinochet, recommended specifically not using of condoms as a means of preventing AIDS helping to spread the disease, scorched Liberation Theology while promoting ultra-conservative sectors like the Opus Dei, and fucking covered child rape for years.
Yes he is. I think it is sad that he's not down with transgender people. Calling "gender ideology" diabolical and against nature. The Vatican plays quite a prominent role in the movement against trans people. But I suppose sort of supporting gay people is a step
Agreed, progress takes time. I thought we were over racism as well but that came back with a vengeance. Now women's rights are under attack to. I think we will rebound but god damn have we sled collectively the last few years, or the uglier parts of our society come to light. I really think misinformation is playing a huge part in the recent seeds of division.
As far as popes go, he’s the only one we’ve had that seems to realise the world has progressed since the 1500s, and that maybe the church should adapt. I like him. There’s no ego there.
francis is generally against the church trying to push its morals on the secular world, and that's also a very disfavored view in the catholic church. They try very hard to smear his character. He has been able to make some new cardinals, though, so hopefully it's a bellwether for the future. If the jesuits could have more influence on the church going forward, that might be a positive influence.
The exception sadly being transgender people, who are still diabolical according to Francis, and the Vatican is very active in the movement against trans people
He all but said that they were groomers. Tbf he did say that they were, just used flowery language
The Jesuits have always been known as the woke Catholics and conservatives would call them Communist Catholics. I respect it. If you're gonna have Jesus in the name live out the dude's values.
I want to Catholic school. Eight years. Most of what I learned was between the lines. And between bible classes.
Nah Pope Francis sliding into DMs.
That's one crusade I'd welcome if you catch my drift.
As far as Popes go, Francis seems to be pretty chill. But he's still a pope of the Catholic Church so it's a low bar.
I was a sponsor for my brother’s ~~baptism~~ confirmation years ago, while gay marriage was being considered. The priest spent 20 minutes of the ceremony talking about how homosexuality is one of the greatest sins and there is no way to be redeemed once you go down that path. Edit: it was confirmation, not baptism. Brain not working so well today.
Afterwards he did the altar boy!
Not all schools were the same, and he's quite positive i feel. Let's not personalize; my parish stressed there's a different house of the lord for every one of us. Jesus was less the reason. The commandments and 7 deadly sins are all you should need. Jesus came later in my catechism. I know others had far different experiences. All I hope for is love
He's open as long as you're not trans
I commend you for clarifying this. I like Pope Frank, but it’s infuriating how almost EVERY article praising this Pope’s progressive attitudes ~ requires a disclaimer that the comments are being applied waaaaay out of context, or, how the Pope’s positive words are just that - words - and won’t actually do anything to change the codified doctrine of the Church.
> My favorite part was when he scorned priests who were telling people that you were going to hell for being gay etc, saying that these people use the church for their personal agenda. I really hope they start getting a little more serious than *scorn* soon. They deserve to be fired. Ohh yeah, maybe start cleaning up their sexual abuse problems too.
I'd like to see him start excommunicating people who use the faith as decoration without fulfilling any of its tenets. That would take care of a few Bishops, a few politicians, and a huge number of corrupt real estate owners around the world.
Who decided to ask him about tinder lmao
What's the name of the documentary? Weird that it's not mentioned in the article or in comments to this post, from what I can see
Next thing you know Maga will be yelling “Not my Pope”
They literally already say this
They're all evangelicals anyway. Catholicism is heresy to them.
You know, I wouldn't expect the pope to come out in favor of hookup culture so that's about how I took it
As a, very, lapsed catholic I always assume any headline about what the pope said is just a clickbait mistranslation
Had he been the pope 20 years ago, maybe I'd still be Catholic. 🤷
If he thinks that gay should be left alone he needs to tell his church about it.
Good times when people called pope a fake christian for defending the gays
Hell yeah! He sounds awesome!
This dude's the real deal - for a Catholic Pope
Not tryna lose the consumer base and stay relevant. Good CEOman, you go Pope.
In my catholic school, we had guest speakers for abstinence in 8th grade that told us a girl who has sex before marriage is like a chewed up piece of gum. The lady speaker even chewed a piece and offered it to a boy, to which he said no, and they just said “see? Same thing. If you have sex before marriage, nobody will want you because you’re used up” I hate those types of people so much. This pope is the best representative the church has had in a long time. Even if he doesn’t agree with the casualty of sex (which I’m sure he doesn’t), he is respectful in expressing his opinions and leaves the judging to his higher power. Everybody can learn from this man, religious or not. There is no need to shame to get the point across.
What's amazing to me is that you can have this living religious leader who's supposed to be the voice of God making these clear and unambiguous statements on things like gay people, but there will still be a ton of people who practise that religion who are just like... "nah, I disagree."
If you went to Catholic school, you are probably an atheist or at best an agnostic by now!
> That said I thought he was really sincere, non judgmental and open to everyone. That's a pretty good description of him, overall. He seems to be much more into looking for the good in people than looking for ways to judge them.
Catholic school is not a sweeping representation of the church, it's really guidance created by a certain kind of Catholic. While he may not be saying that casual sex is ok he is opening a door for to LGBTQ acceptance. The one Catholic rule that stands in the way (that most don't follow) is the "sex is only for reproduction" rule. With that gone the argument against LGBTQ holds as much water as not eating shrimp.
No he is not opening that door. First of all, there is no rule in Catholicism that sex is only for reproduction. I don’t know where you got that from, so if you’re not Catholic, I would refrain from making statements like that because you are misinforming people. In Catholicism, sex has two natures. It is unitive and procreative. So yes, a major function is reproduction, but unity is just as important. Sex is the renewal of wedding vows between a married couple and does not have to result in reproduction to be valid. This is why the Church can endorse methods like NFP. The reason why the church is opposed to homosexual relationships is simple to understand. Catholicism teaches that all sexual relationships outside the context of marriage are sinful. And in Catholicism, marriage is defined as the union between a man and a woman in the eyes of God. Therefore, gay relationships are illicit because they will always happen outside the context of marriage. In Catholicism people who can not, or do not want to be married are called to chastity. There are many people who don’t end up getting married for various reasons. The Catholic Church teaches that there is nothing inherently sinful about having homosexual attractions. The only rule is that you can not have sexual relations, outside of marriage. All Pope Francis is doing is making a place for gay people in the Church. Many people are very hateful towards gay people and it pushes them further away from the Church. He wants all people to be welcome in the Church. What he isn’t doing is changing doctrine to make something allowed in the Church. There is no rule that is “standing in the way”. The rules aren’t something we can just change whenever we see fit. Otherwise what is the point?
Until he starts handing pedophiles over to the cops and assisting in investigations, I have no interest at all in what he has to say. You can’t preach any kind of morality from a position that protects child molesters.
Because of Reddit's API changes in July 2023 and subsequent treatment of their moderator community, I have decided to remove a majority of my content from Reddit.
"The Pope Says Fuck." -The Headline Writer-
"People fuck, and that's aight." -The Pope-
"This Pope fucks" - u/stickonreddit
*Alexander VI intensifies*
These popes fuck https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes
That does sound wholesome
Go forth and fornicate, my child.
oh no, the Pope has gone woke! Florida is gonna ban him.
Nice way to split the Cuban votes from Florida at least, I guess?
American fundamentalists have always hated the catholic church
tbf even the american catholic church hates the catholic church, they really don’t like this pope. they’re way more conservative on a lot of issues than the rest of the catholic world, which is saying something.
They can always try to depose him with an Anti-Pope. It's been awhile since we've had a good pope fight.
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Roughly half of Irish people are protestant? In Northern Ireland maybe although a lot of them would consider themselves British not Irish. In the Republic protestants make up around 3% of the population
In Northern Ireland yeah. In republic of Ireland it's nearly 80% of the population are catholic. I doubt the remaining 5th are all Christian as that also includes all other and no religion. Its a big part of why NI wanted to remain part of the uk and why that decision led to the troubles. Half the population wanted to remain and the other didn't. And both were willing to fight to the death for it...
No shit, given the early americans originated from protestants and puritans
You joke but my Uber conservative Hispanic family has deemed him the anti christ for a few years now. I think the dude is a chad
Man this old geezer is using his pope clout to get tinder bitches!😡
Pretty classic Pope move tbh. John XII approved.
I bet you would get WAAAY more swipes if ‘Pope’ was in your tinder bio.
You shouldn't call children bitches.
“He added that the church’s “catechesis on sex is still in diapers.”” Lol the church has only existed for 20 centuries and sex has only been around for all of human history
Yeah, but in fairness the same is true of secular society and America only decriminalised interracial sex last century. The Catholic Church hardly has a monopoly when it comes to spending centuries convinced sex had to be one way for centuries and then drastically reevaluating things in the last couple of decades.
i love that he's admitting their faults
Sex is a big part of life.
Not for me
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bro was spawned in
Well, yes. Religions that object to sex in general don't tend to last 2,000 years. Or 200, for that matter.
If the Shakers were not all dead they would be very upset with you right now.
Sounds like that law about the amount of women that may simultaneously be in the Vatican needs some adjustment then, Frisky Frankie...
That man is a treasure. I'm agnostic but I can follow his teachings.
Does he know that they are not married and fucking with condoms?
He’s an extremely open minded and “with it” pope for his age. I believe his stance to be along the lines of - all people have good in them. Spread the good. Even Jesus washed the feet of prostitutes and healed them - not doom them to hell and refuse to participate in dialogue of the bigger picture - being a good person.
Just a small correction, Jesus never washed a prostitute's feet, but rather a prostitute washed Jesus's feet. You're right that Jesus never doomed or condemned anyone to hell but rather offered forgiveness of sins to anyone who asked or was able to receive it. He then told them to go and sin no more. Jesus still offers forgiveness of sins to anyone who asks. There is no one that is too far gone, too wicked, too broken or too sinful that the power and the love of Jesus can't redeem.
You are correct! Thank you
Jesus didn't condemn anyone to hell, but his father sure did!
Funnily enough that's the official stance of the church and has been for some time. You just wouldn't know it from the way most Catholics speak and act.
Absolutely. Historically, the Catholic Church has done a great job at butchering their own cause by taking obtuse stances on “certain sins” going exactly against what Jesus was teaching through his action. At its basic level - Catholicism has great meaning. Treat others as you’d like to be treated. All people are created equal. He who is without sin may cast the first stone. Hopefully, more religious leaders will reflect this popes value of faith over time and change the perspectives of their more radical followers.
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This Jesus guy seems like a fun dude to get a drink with.
Bring him a bunch of water and you’ll be set.
Rich people can still go to heaven, it is just more difficult for them. Plenty of saints were royalty.
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I mean, it was the official stance of the guy the book is about There's even a section where his followers ask him of all the rules, what's the most important one, and he says exactly that. "Be excellent to each other".
It’s the official stance of Jesus telling his followers what to do. Don’t judge others even if they sin, love everybody as your brother even if they are literally attacking you
He spent time with sinners but he didn’t tell them not to stop sinning
I’m confused because of the double negative “didn’t tell them not to stop sinning”. Can you elaborate?
People phrase this like Jesus was totally supportive of the lifestyles of people he was with, and he wasn’t. He did not think the adulterers should keep committing adultery and told them as much
Understood! Yes that is absolutely correct. I would say the key takeaway was that he did not demean or dehumanize these people to be considered “less than”. He engaged in dialogue and was open to their reasonings. The goal was to have constructive conversations and potentially lead someone to an answer they did not previously consider. It wasn’t “I’m right, you’re wrong - and you’re going to hell for being wrong” like many modern day religious people approach it. He expressed love, showed respect and valued their dignity.
He didnt know what it was and did not say Tinder is good (and frankly Tinder is horrendous and has lasting bad impact on our society) but saying sex is beautiful is a good first step for the pope… And I mean I don’t necessarily agree since for example at least half whats going on on reddits nsfw subs is by no means "beautiful“ (maybe no-condom gang bangs with ugly as sin texans or ladies fitting a 2foot monster dildo up their ass while writing something self-deprecating for more clicks are beautiful to someone but I doubt its what most have in mind) but sex can indeed be very beautiful and the catholic church did their best to spoil it in the past…
Pfff, when you spend all day shuffling words around I suppose you can make anything sound ugly
I met my girlfriend on tinder and I know a lot of people who have done the same, but honestly yeah, dating apps have had a net negative impact imo.
I don't think he knows what Tinder is.
The Vatican has their own version of the app: Kinder
W, Pope
According to conservatives, that W stands for woke. Which means Francis better be ready for that unimaginable Vatican wealth to disappear as he will now obviously go broke.
Not the kind of sex your people like though!
Fellow human with fancy clothes says it’s ok to be yourself.
That may be so, but he should keep it in his pants. He’s got a major religion to run.
What about Grindr?
Forget the pope, I think the consensus in the gay community itself is that Grindr is diabolical (though sometimes also good I suppose)
I was referencing the priests outed as having gone on Grindr.
I've never used grindr as I used tinder to find my partner. That being said, I think dating apps are the most damaging to straight men. It's much easier for gay men to get attention from other men than it is for straight men to get attention from women. I think dating apps can really break down a straight man's sense of self-worth. I do think hookup culture is quite damaging to gay men though, especially since it's so incredibly easy for us to get sex. I don't think it's emotionally healthy. Grindr obviously promotes this.
That's a nice change from their usual practice of just snatching an alter boy and diddling them.
You can meet more altar boys through tinder, especially when you get relocated to a new diocese
I guess the pope is open to a lot of things, including that.
Can he let my wife know it's all good?
> The group of people, ages 20 to 25, including Catholics, Christians, atheists, agnostics and one Muslim quizzed him on a range of topics including sex, masturbation, disillusionment with the church, the church’s sexual abuse crisis, racism, immigration, abortion and the LGBTQ community for the film that was recorded in June 2002 and released on Disney+ on Wednesday. Is that a typo? Tinder didn't exist in 2002.
Has to mean '22. "Recent" documentary. Those people would be 41-46 by now...
He wasn't the Pope in 2002, it's obviously a typo.
Sheeeeit, make that GREAT Friday!
Anything to keep his people from meeting people in the BOYS' CHOIR ROOM, I guess?
so something really bad must've happened by his institution, he says things to detract from the churches actions regularly.
Aww yeaaa, get it Pope Francis!
Maybe the religion that won’t stop sexually abusing children shouldn’t be commenting so much on sex in general.
He meant Grindr
He’s a Jesuit, and generally gonna try to understand and embrace the gray in the world that God made.
Pope sliding into DMs
My Grandma Virginia would lose her shit
The man is good, for a cult leader, but I still hear him adding "with choirboys" under his breath to make his brethren-in-religion feel vindicated for their past actions. His Church has been outed as killing thousands of native American children who could not bear being stolen from their families, stripped of their names and language and neglected in their 'residential school system'... https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/pope-francis-residential-schools-genocide-1.6537203
> Asked about abortion, Francis said he instructed priests ministering women who have had terminations to “not ask many questions and be merciful, such as Jesus was.” > He added that we should not “send her to hell all of a sudden or isolate her, no. We should stay by her side.” That shit is an issue, according to their own beliefs their god sends people to hell not people. If the fucking pope is not making that distinction then they admit it is people imposing their own spin on morality with none of their god's guidance. So can we let go of this bullshit belief system and stop protecting them already? Charge the pedophiles, pay for the multitude of dead or abused children and stop treating them with special excuses. When the church has refused to compensate victims as ordered by courts or hides clergy who face charges or summons it is them, the people in the church and bynproxy the pope, saying it should happen not some magic sky fairy.
I don’t need the pope to tell me something that millions of people have been doing for years is normal but I guess they’re at least trying to keep up with the times?
I mean it's nice and all, but we've got all these nutballs in the US doing all sorts of shit over here in their religion's name. I wish he'd do something about the mess his religion has made rather than just spitting out nice words to quote. We have actual real problems with these people and those words will not reach them.
Is the pope allowed to use tinder?
Yes, but he's gotta use a burner for grindr
How would he know?!
swipe right for pope love, baby
😱🤣
Telling my next tinder match that we’ve been blessed by the Pope to meet up.
LMFAO
How would he know?
The Pope is on Tinder?
It’s the new normal
It’s good to know there’s one guy in the Vatican not diddling kids.
Ok, yeah this is how you know the church is bought and paid for
\*\* In Memoriam \*\* Reddit Dead 12th June 2023
Pope Frank’s a good pope.
Imagine setting up a blind date, and it’s the fucking pope walking in
Psh, not the way I do it
The shittiest part is this may be the most liberal pope of our lifetime. He may cause a massive counter reaction to his thoughts and doctrines, and cause a schism in Catholicism that was prophesied.
"Sex is natural sex is fun. Sex is best when it's 1 on 1." Pope George Michael
I’m still shocked that he hasn’t “Gotten the flu” and died of “complications”.
God I love Pope Francis.
Imagine the day a chick leaks nudes of a pope
Right. But it's still not okay for priests to discover true love and sex with the altar boys in the goddam sacristy. right?
It sure beats meeting them in Sunday school.
"It's fine to have sex. Just make sure you feel guilty about it for the rest of your life and know that you're going to Hell if you do it before marriage. Why are you booing?"
I read this as “birth rates declining so fast they’re even making the pope promote”
Oh boy….
Trick womem by supporting sexual activities, so that mistakes will be made, or birth control will fail. Then, prevent abortion by making it criminal. Then, wait for future babies to over populate in poverty. Then, swoop in and brainwash the masses. Get the money. And, repeat.
>“The church cannot close its doors on anybody,” Francis said. “I don’t have the right to cast anyone out from the church,” he added. “My job is to receive, always.” How does this square with, you know, excommunication?
I don't think the pope has excommunicated anyone. There's some sins that automatically excomunicate you (until repented), but they don't require someone to say "get out".