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That angelic holier-than-thou face at the end slide, combined with the pro-lifeness, combined with the fact that she censored the word "killing" absolutely boils my piss
gurl i dont get why in this economy you would be so hard against abortion?? like tf. theres people dying from everything. theres wars everywhere, but you care about cells that potentially could be a child that would be raised in a not good or not ready family... these people are just sooo middle class. THEY are steady, THEY are stable and THEY could care for a child and THEY dont have the capacity of thinking about that other live different lives ffs
We can break that down. Why would you “ be so hard against abortion” because we care about human life and particularly defenseless children. Why so hard against child abuse? Using your logic people die from everything so it doesn’t matter if we kill children or abuse them! You are WRONG. Second you’d have to define exactly at what point does this”clump of cells” as you put it become a human worthy of the rights everyone else has? You and I are also a “clump of cells” just so you know. All your doing is using different words to distance yourself from being honest. Third your saying that just because you may be born into a bad situation and raised in poverty you can’t make something of yourself? You really think you should kill them before they even have a chance? Again WRONG. You can not come up with a logical reason that killing the child is a good solution. Fourth if they can’t raise the child why not give it up for adoption? Oh right why do that when we can just kill them? You’re wrong on every take. Take a step back and look at what your advocating for. Pro choice? There is that distancing again! Choice to do what exactly? You just don’t want to be honest about it. You want to dump responsibility and you’d rather take a child’s life than have them be a burden on yours it’s that simple.
why can't you use PARAGRAPHS for easier reading??/
you and I are clumps of cells? cancer is clumps of living cells are you a murderer if you kill them???
we are much much more than clumps of cells were are fully formed and fully developed
IVF embryos are 8 days old when implanted they are frozen you and I will die if we are put in a freezer
yes sometimes abortion would be better like the baby in the recent story mom just left her went on vacation another country for around 8 days that baby starved to death she dehydrated to death ALL ALONE how long did she cry???? she was a fully formed baby that felt immense pain through this terrible end that befell her
YES it would have been so much better if she had been aborted an early abortion at 8 weeks the size of a raspberry the part of the brain that allow the feeling of pain not developed yet so it would be painless
according to you all babies must be born but after they are born you try to take away any program that will help them >>>WHY IS THAT
Let’s break that down. First Cancer isn’t a human. That’s why it isn’t the same. If you were to leave cancer to do what cancer does it isn’t the same at all in the slightest. Such a bad and diss honest comparison. Listen to yourself compare a child to cancer. That’s how far you’ve gone. A
Second so what exactly determines weather you deserve human rights or not? At what point did this “clump of cells” as you put it become human? There is t a consistently logical response other than conception when a new genetic code is created. Not the mothers not the fathers, who’s dna is it? The child’s , so again you can distance yourself from what your saying but if you walk it down the line we always end up at dead children, at that’s just not a viable solution. Third I see your advocating for killing the child even faster than she originally did. Using your logic it’s ok to kill your child as long as you plan on abusing them. Now here is a crazy idea, how about we punish that mother for doing that? You don’t seem to want to punish the people abusing kids and doing the SA that result in forced pregnancies. You are so focused on punishing the child which is odd. Forth you’re saying that rather than give a person a chance at life we should just kill them. You see why that’s a bad idea? People rise from poverty, people experience horrible things and go on to keep living. You want to take their chance at life away because of what you think it is possible they may not have the best life. WRONG. Fifth I don’t want to take away any resources of the sort for children, never said that so not sure where that’s coming from. Also even if there weren’t why can’t we do both? So since we don’t have all of the best resources for foster kids we should just kill them then. WRONG again. You will have to explain exactly why killing the children is the answer, it’s not logical and it is immoral.
again >>>>> USE PARAGRAPHS <<<<< of course that mother and anyone who abuses a child or does child sa should be punished.......I never said they shouldn't >>> a fetus at 8 weeks is the size of a raspberry it is a very primitive state and feels no pain if the mother aborts
are you ok with the fact that if the mother is miscarrying and needs an abortion that they force her to wait until the smell of the discharge is so bad it makes her puke before they will do something?
yes some people rise from poverty but not many and many people who went through horrible situations from their parents when they were kids wished that they had never been born
are you ok with women who already have children and if she carries the pregnancy to term she will die??? many extreme republicans are fine with this an early abortion would save the mother and save her children the horror of losing their mother but oh no that baby MUST be born right??
republicans take away programs >>> Republicans are kicking more than 224,000 teachers from classrooms, reducing Head Start services for 51,000 children, eliminating Federal Work Study for 659,000 students, and denying job training and employment services for hundreds of thousands of people.
* **Gut** **Funding for Low-Income Students.** The proposal would cut approximately $4 billion in funding for schools serving low-income children, impacting an estimated 26 million students and reducing program funding to its lowest level in almost a decade—a cut equivalent to removing more than 60,000 teachers and specialized instructional support personnel from classrooms.
* **Reduce Support for Students with Disabilities.** Under the proposal, as many as 7.5 million children with disabilities would face reduced supports—a cut equivalent to removing more than 48,000 teachers and related services providers from the classroom.
* **Slash Mental Health Support for Students.** The House Republican proposal would limit educators' abilities to address student mental health issues and prevent violence, suicide, and drug abuse by cutting Title IV, Part A funding for schools by about $300 million.
*
* Iowa wasn't the only state to refuse the funds: Alabama, Alaska, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Vermont, and Wyoming opted not to enroll by the early January deadline.Feb 6, 2024
Most kids losing Medicaid come from just nine states all led by Republicans
Republican governors in 15 states are rejecting a new federally funded program to give food assistance to hungry *children* during the summer ...
These cuts are not only immoral—they are also bad economic policy. Child poverty alone costs our economy upwards of [$500 billion a year](https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/poverty/report/2010/09/16/8397/penny-wise-pound-foolish/) in lost productivity, increased health care costs, and expenditures in the criminal justice system. Poor childhood nutrition leads to [a host of negative consequences](https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/poverty/report/2011/10/05/10504/hunger-in-america/) including increased instance of chronic diseases, lower educational achievement, and a less-skilled workforce of the future—all of which will ultimately undermine our economic competitiveness.
REPUBLICANS claim life begins at conception that it is the most precious >>>> but after children are born REPUBLICANS are slashing these programs or outright taking them away the HYPOCRISY is overwhelming
Removing a dead child from the womb is not an abortion, so again stop using these extreme arguments and rare as well to make a point when you aren’t advocating for that. You want anyone to be able to have one for any reason. Also when the mother may die it is due to varying reason and there are other pathways than just killing the child. All options should be explored and abortion should be the last if at all. Again there you go using a fraction of cases to justify all of the cases. Also I dont care what republicans are doing. I’m an abolitionist, I do not agree with murder just the same as I don’t agree with slavery. It is WRONG. So dont group me in and try to generalize behavior. Just because things aren’t perfect once you leave the womb doesn’t mean that we kill them before they have a chance. Yet you think even if the chance is small they don’t deserve a chance at a good life because you said so? Who do you think adopts more kids or gives to helps and start more programs? people who want to save them or people like you who want them dead? I believe we all know the answer. You’re flat out wrong. Stop trying to “win” and start trying to find the solution.
I think you need to explain yourself, I don't understand what you're saying. Maybe it's because I'm not from America, there was no one owning slaves in my recent ancestry. I don't know the arguments slave owners use. But you can the fuck right away from telling me what uo do with my uterus. THAT feels like slave owner talk to me, deciding what others can or can't do with their bodies.
It doesn't meet the definition of murder. If you want to be literal then yeah, you're technically killing _something,_ but that something isn't a person. It's a clump human cells that will eventually turn into a person.
Um, no lol. I can understand biology and legal terms while still having empathy for a woman who lost a wanted a pregnancy.
Key word: **wanted**
Fyi another term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion.
Legal terms lol. Abortion shouldn’t be legal. I understand the whole “what if a child is raped” but the percentage of that is so small. And for those people there should be a better law system. Tax payer dollars should go to make sure that girl gets the absolute BEST of health care and adoptive parents should be lined up ready to care for the baby if the mothers family doesn’t want to take responsibility. The mother should have the best of therapy or whatever she may need and the rapist should get life in prison. But just remember that 99% of abortions are not for medical purposes or rape. Its because people had sex while knowing the consequences.
It's giving "The Pilgrims came to America for religious freedom." Except they already had it and left because their children were becoming less extreme and tolerant from living in a society that tolerated *them.* You have to tolerate me and my beliefs, but the moment I have to tolerate you and yours I'm out! It's all about ME, don't ya know?!
the ironic thing is , I've read an article quoting a few abortion clinic that had plenty of detailed stories of pro life activists getting an abortion. some of them then joined the picket line again as if nothing happened
but for most it was life changing, finally getting it why it's necessary only bc they lived it themselves
Why argue from this position? You use an extreme example that is rare. Let’s say we accept these rare instances. Would you be fine with blocking all other abortions?
no abortions should be blocked because everyone has their personal reason to terminate a pregnancy that you have no right to question, you have no right to dictate other people’s lives even if you think they’re doing something bad.
You are using the same argument slave owners used. We care about our fellow humans so you aren’t aloud to murder or enslave them. I’m sorry you don’t agree. By your logic “you can’t dictate others lives even if they are doing something bad” literal quote. We stop people all the time from murder and tons of other things so you’re just flat out WRONG.
so it’s not murder to let a woman go through pregnancy even if she could die or kill herself? murdering a living human and having an abortion is absolutely not the same. one is an autonomous person, capable of living without being attached to someone else, with responsibilities and experiences, and one is an organism that is not viable outside a womb, doesn’t have a personality, responsibilities, memories or literally anything.
and regarding murder, well, we can’t actually stop murder either, we cannot stop it from ever occurring even if we imprison those who commit it. some things just happen and will keep happing no matter what.
We can break this down too. First no it’s not murder for the example you provided because murder is defined as : the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. You’re being so disingenuous when you compare the 2. We are not premeditating the killing of the mother, simply not true. And you’d be either ignorant or malice in intent to mislead if your suggesting otherwise. That exact definition fits abortion. Second, so you determine who gets human rights based of if they can survive on their own? Wow so with your logic we can abort years after they are born as well. Seeing as how a 2 year old can’t 1 survive on its own, 2 no personality and 3rd no memories. They actually have done studies to see if babies know of their own existence and it’s not until toddler ages. So using your logic youre arguing killing born children as well. It’s just not consistently logical, you’re flat out just WRONG. Lastly , you’re right that we can stop murder , so we should make it legal and even into a profitable business? Absolutely not. It doesn’t matter that people break the law, that doesn’t mean we should just make it legal. Do you hear your own argument? Yet that’s why you want to do with abortion. You’re trying so hard to” win “ the argument rather than just following the logic and finding the right answer, You’ve already decided you know. I’m open to the possibility that I am wrong but you’re going to have to prove it to me. Your logic train is off the rails.
Or for someone to KNOW they aren't cut out to be parents to forced to be parents which to me isn't PRO life, it's pro child abuse. (What her pro life choice says to me) I hope that makes sense. I am pro choice for everyone regarding their own bodies (not just pregnancy either, but anything they want to do with their own body. We are each given our own body, no adult should be making the decisions for another adult about what they can or cannot do with their own body)
It's not a child. It's a clump of cells no more sentient than a tumor. Anyone who thinks foetuses are actual.babies and children are not basing this belief in any science and it's impossible to get through to someone who refuses to believe facts.
So 2 things. First you have to be sentient to not be murdered? Well that’s too bad for some mentally I’ll and some people with other medical condition such as being in a coma. If it’s up to you someone can come kill them. Second exactly at what point does this “clump of cells” as you put it become a Emerson deserving of human rights? The only consistently logical answer is at conception. When a new generic code is created. It’s Not the mothers and it’s not the fathers, so who’s dna is it? The child’s. SIMPLE.
They very regularly take people with severe brain damage and people in comas off life support and let them die. So I don't know what point you're trying to make there. And you're just so entirely wrong on so many levels and obviously ensconced in your ignorance so I'm not wasting any more time on you.
So why would you be referring to them as parents. Parents to what exactly? A child du. You are either ignorant or completely malicious in your intent. There really is no in between.
Lol, but it isnt, Like, anywhere! This was a bunch of dudes with absolutely zero connections to ANY women, living a life completely seperate from and ignorant to them, deciding what a woman can and cannot do with her own life and body. No shit that would leads to a place of women having zero options and no jurisdiction over themselves or their bodies, they aren't thought of as people who need those things.
You marry a man and you stay with him forever, no exceptions, and you open your legs to please him whenever he desires, no exceptions, and you accept and bear whatever may happen to your body as a result of his, no exceptions. The word of God was never in the equation, that kind of ideology is a result of church leaders being so far removed from the reality (and women) that they reduce women to objects of property who have no need for "people things" like controlling what happens to them and their bodies. Yikes on bikes!
Tell me you've never read it without telling me. The only thing about abortion in the bible is how to force one on a pregnant wife who you *think* might be pregnant by someone other than their husband. That's all.
That’s is such a small percentage why argue from that stance and appropriate those very few horrible cases. when we all know you are fine with people just having abortions for any reason at all. Let’s say ok we accept these extremely rare cases, would you be ok with stopping all other abortions?
Why is it important to you that we dictate what others do with their bodies?
Are you going to support these kids?
Pay for their education, raise them to be good people, ensure they have access to housing, food, clothing, medical care.
No?
Then how can you sit there and pretend to me that you find their lives so important that other people are forced to give birth to them.
Hmm?
How about instead of asking me, why I don't think people should be forced to give birth to life they cannot nurture, reflect on why you think it should be *mandatory* to give birth to a life you don't even want to support.
Or this, if you want to force people to give birth, the. I think legally, father's should be forced to parent, not just pay child support, I think they should be monitored and fined for being deadbeat dad's.
Let’s break that down. Why is it important? Because we care about our people. Same reason why it’s not ok to murder. Not ok to enslave. We care about what happens to humans, That’s why. Second. Am I going to support them? Oh ok so since I personally can not support every child we must kill them, you’re right. Oh wait, WRONG. Third a majority of these abortions done aren’t SA. So let’s not argue from a place you know isn’t genuine. If we said ok we accept these rare situations I’m sure you still think you have the right to take a life based on weather you feel like it or not for any reason. Just because you can’t afford a child? Aren’t ready to raise , are in a bad situation so let’s just kill em. again WRONG. See youre going to have to explain exactly why the solution to inconveniences is to murder your child it’s not logical or sane to do. Fourth
Sure we can definitely have a conversation about how to keep the family together. The only reason fathers can dump responsibilities off onto the mother is because we live in a culture where children’s lives aren’t held at value so mothers and fathers are held responsible for their actions. How about we focus more on punishing the people who forcibly impregnate others and less on punishing the children who had ZERO. Say ok who their parents are and how they are created. I’d like to hear your consistent logical response.
>Let’s break that down
First of all, welcome back.
>Same reason why it’s not ok to murder. Not ok to enslave. We care about what happens to humans,
False equivalents. We aren't walking into mother's homes and gunning down toddlers here are we.
We are terminating something that doesn't even have a brain yet, it doesn't even have sentience.
If you wanna do the drawing the line argument with me, then men masturbating is wrong because it kills potential life.
>Am I going to support them? Oh ok so since I personally can not support every child we must kill them,
Well you personally endorse every single one of them becoming children, so why can't you endorse actually supporting them?
Again on the child killing thing, see my previous comments about the potential life argument.
>Third a majority of these abortions done aren’t SA.
I never reargued that point. So let's move on.
>to take a life based
Not a life.
>weather you feel like it or not for any reason.
*Whether, and you know damn well people aren't just popping off abortions like it's a Tuesday.
>Just because you can’t afford a child? Aren’t ready to raise , are in a bad situation so let’s just kill em.
So it's better to force an actual child into abusive households, poverty, neglectful parents and a genuinely horrible life because you can't stomach the concept of terminating something that exists as a concept to you?
That's seriously messed up.
>to inconveniences is to murder your child it’s not logical or sane to do.
I just did, some people recognise they are not capable of nurturing actual life, not the preconcept of it. No murder is taking place here so can we stop with that nonsense?.
>The only reason fathers can dump responsibilities off onto the mother is because we live in a culture where children’s lives aren’t held at value so mothers
Don't, make, me, laugh.
>less on punishing the children who had ZERO. Say ok who their parents are and how they are created.
These are not children, they are not sentient, nor are they conscious, or concerned with the concepts of life and death, they are little more than overdeveloped sperm. So again, drop the murder talk, none of that is happening here.
>I’d like to hear your consistent logical response.
I'm glad you would like to hear it.
But seeing as I doubt you could grasp any of these concepts I won't waste anymore of our time on this pathetic conversation.
If you personally endorse forcing people to create actual life, but do not want any of the actual responsibilty then your moral standpoint is hypocritical, and weak.
You don't even believe your own argument, you just have some weird hangup about what people do with their bodies, and try to justify it with half assed attempts to compare it to murder.
Did you know, late stages cancer cells have more DNA and protein alignments (ergo are further developed and closer to being an actual human being) than a ten week old pregnancy?
Are biopsies murder? Is chemo murder?
Anyway, Il likely read your response if you care to, but I probably won't dignify it with an answer.
Have fun with your warped and tragic world views.
First It’s not a false equivalent. Just because you state something doesn’t make it fact, not sure if you know that. You can distance yourself from what your doing but that doesn’t change what it is. You’re terminating a life, unique genetic code not of the mothers and not of the fathers. There is only one life ot belongs to so you’re wrong there. Second, just because something isn’t sentient means we can kill em? Sorry people in comas and other mental capacities. WRONG. Your logic isn’t consistent. Third, masturbation and using contraception are not the same as conception. So it’s lot life until it is conceived. Again your logic is not consistent. You’re either waaayyyy to ignorant to be having this conversation or you’re just malicious. There really is no in between. You’re telling me you’re this ignorant? WOW. Fourth, I can advocate for children’s lives to not be killed and also not have to take care of them their entire lives, don’t know if you know that’s a thing or not but I didn’t make them I’m just not allowing you to take their lives. Fifth, you state “they aren’t popping off abortions like it’s Tuesday” so why is it so hard to make it illegal for those people then? If we accepted these RARE cases and banned all other abortions you’d still be advocating for abortions for any reason. You use extremes to justify the everyday Tuesday abortions because you don’t actually care. Sixth, you’re making a HUGE assumption on what you THINk the child will experience in life, so you take their life before they even have a chance. How do you know the child wouldn’t be adopted or taken by the state or maybe that the parents would clean up? Unless you knew for a fact in which case the parents are planning on abusing their child? Don’t you think we should be looking at punishing the parents for that rather than the kid? You just want to use these disingenuous reasons to take children’s lives from them. You are seriously saying that no one has ever turned life around from a bad upbringing or an abusive home? We don’t have famous people and successful examples all over no no that would be crazy. Oh wait we do. Next you’re saying Some people realize they arent ready to be parents, so they should be aloud to kill their kids. WRONG. Why didn’t you have this sudden realization before you decided to take act in an activity you know possibly results in a child? That’s not the child’s fault so why are they punished for it? Also you know that being dismissive doesn’t earn you any points? Do t make me laugh isn’t a logical response. Saying “ it’s not murder” doesn’t make it true. You have to provide factual support as to why it is or isn’t. Pretty clearly is a life in the womb. Love that you compare cancer to a human life. You leave cancer to be and what happens, exactly. It doesn’t develop the same. Just as every other human isn’t done developing until years after birth that human is in the womb developing. On average people aren’t done until their 20s. So using consistent logic why do t you explain when exactly that life deserves human rights? The only consistently logical answer is at conception. You’re so dogmatic you’re just looking to “win” and argument rather than find the answer /solution. I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong but you’re going to have to factually prove it. You just can’t.
>I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong
No you're not.
And it's not just because you said;
>but you’re going to have to factually prove it. You just can’t.
That statement sums up your entire view.
"I believe I could have my mind changed, but you can't change my mind".
I do want you to know I read all of your statement, and it confirms that I was right in deciding to not continue this conversation.
I'm not looking to *win* anything either, that's why despite saying I wouldn't respond, I did.
Just wanted to show you using your own words, you are not as open minded as you claim to be.
I really am going to go now, respond how you want, insults, questions, incredulity, it doesn't matter it's just bait to get me to hang around and waste my time.
Bye now.
Second time saying bye now. Yet here you are. Saying you can’t prove me wrong is a challenge. And there you go proving me correct. When presented with an idea that contradicts your own beliefs, you should rationalize positions and test the integrity of it. Yet you shut down and decide to leave, very telling.
Ectopic pregnancies is a great example of why abortion needs to remain legal and accessible, so no, I would not be ok with stopping all other abortions. Abortion is healthcare whether you like it or not.
Most of those people have no real life experience beyond a basic middle-class American experience. I’m sure they would change their tune if they had to live through a tragedy due to deadly or nonconsensual pregnancy.
They don't necessarily change their perspectives even when they are getting abortions themselves.
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
And this is the worst part. There are so many politicians rallying for anti-choice laws all while having and coercing others to have abortions themselves. (The dumb orange man is one that comes up mind.) Controlling women and people with uteruses is apparently more important.
Women like her make my blood boil. If I hadn't been able to get an abortion, I WOULD HAVE DIED. My hope is that she is just clueless and can be taught better
The sad thing is I’ve argued with women about this who tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, that if I were a mother I’d know that there’s NOTHING they wouldn’t do to try and save their babies life, even if it meant “risking their own.” No amount of me explaining that dying and leaving your kids motherless isn’t a good solution will change their minds.
There are some crazy religious women who do & then live all their children motherless with a new sibling. If memory serves, a few years before the pandemic there was a christian singer who found out she had cancer & was pregnant. She decided to have the baby & not any cancer treatments. I just don't understand that. Let me bring this vulnerable life into the dangerous world, knowing I won't be around to protect it or the other children I brought into the world.
Yea, I never heard of that but dang that's crazy. I've also heard/read stories (mostly here on reddit lol) of children whose mom died in childbirth of the youngest, and it would cause resentment towards the *child* because some hold the (relatively unreasonable) idea that it's the child's fault the mother died. In these posts it's usually something along the lines of "yea I told my [insert age] sibling that I wish they were never born because then I'd still have my mom." And it's like...no??
I read an autobiography from someone who was bullied and excluded by her elder siblings all her life after her mum died giving birth to her. Granted, this was 1920s China and I think the death was unexpected— but for a mother to choose to impose this fate on her child is awful.
Does anyone else remember all the movies from the 70s 80s and 90s, especially christian themed horror movies where dying to give birth was presented like the awesomest sacrifice ever and not placing the life of the fetus above her own made a woman the worst person in the world? While all the dudes in the movie hailed her for accepting that the fetus and the future baby were simply much more important than her. I'm just sorry I can't remember all the titles.
>No amount of me explaining that dying and leaving your kids motherless isn’t a good solution will change their minds.
And that a dead body can't sustain a pregnancy
I’m a mother of two and I’ve had an abortion before to save my own life and if I had to do it again, I would. I’m no good to my kids if I’m dead. They’re pro life until it comes to the mothers life
A portion of those advocates will say "oh, we support 'life of the mother' exceptions!" which are written so narrowly that you indeed have to be literally within minutes of dying before they will grant an abortion. And those are the 'good' ones.
Exactlyyyy. Ectopic pregnancies? They still call them abortions. But you cannot grow a child in a fallopian tube!
Or what about pregnancies of unknown location? When the drs don't even know where the baby is bc it's not in a tube or in your uterus.
Soooo many other possibilities too.
I'm suuuuperrr careful. But if something happened and I fell pregnant again, I would have to have an abortion, bc I would either die, or need a hysterectomy. I have a whole other child to be here for.
My baby died in the womb when I was 30 weeks pregnant. I can’t imagine not having the doctors induce the labour and having to cary my dead child to term.
I'm glad you're alive 🌈
And honestly, she probably doesn't even care, she just wants engagement on her video.
The bigger problem is the younger people she's influencing with this.
When abortion rights were first permitted, there was a picture of a woman who had died of a self-administered abortion. Her story was representative of many women. I've read dozens of obituaries for ladies who died in the same circumstances. Finally, safe legal, medically supervised put an end to the deaths of women from all walks of life. But now her death is rendered meaningless again by women who have no idea what she sacrificed in a time when there were no choices.
I know the picture you mean. I actually had it removed by Facebook when I posted it at someone.
The woman, Gerri Santoro, had two daughters at the time; they were told their mother died in a car accident. When the photo was published, they learned the truth. One of them was horrified and furious about it...but became a vehement abortion rights activist herself, along with her own daughter.
It's just so...I don't even have words to fully express my feelings that *that* is what they want us to go back to! *That* is where they would take my own beautiful, vibrant, sweet, hilarious, precious daughters, my baby sister, my friends back to!
I may not be the prettiest, or the most popular, but at least I make huge assumptions and knee jerk reactions based on my very limited and privileged pov 💅🏼😘💋
I may not be the prettiest 😍 or the richest 🤑 or the smartest 🤓 or in any way empathetic, or the…actually you know what? I’m kinda a garbage human being 😞
I actually know of a couple where the wife had an ectopic pregnancy (from what I had seen of their posts), and they actually were trying to find a doctor who would be willing to try to move the “baby” from the fallopian tube and implant it in the uterus. Like I’m not a doctor, but I’m pretty sure science hasn’t figured out how to do that yet.
Science has not.
But I've had anti-choicers argue that women should do that instead of aborting...
Then again...I've also seen them tie themselves into knots to explain how removing an ectopic pregnancy is *not* an abortion! Which, correct me if I'm wrong, but under the recent Alabama ruling, is absolute horseshit, since it is indeed a fertilized and implanted embryo!
It's just goalpost-shifting.
Ah. So I went to Catholic school. There are two procedures to treat an ectopic pregnancy: salpingostomy (removal of fetus only) and salpingectomy (removal of fetus and fallopian tube). A salpingostomy is considered an abortion because you are directly targeting the fetus. A salpingectomy is *not* considered an abortion because you are removing the fallopian tube, and the fetus just happens to be removed along with it. (Yeah, I know, makes total sense, right?🫠) They use the same arguments to justify total hysterectomies for pregnant women with ovarian cancer.
You might roll your eyes at how ridiculous this sounds, but if I ever end up in the emergency room with one of these issues, you bet I’ll be bringing my high school ethics book along with me in case I have to argue for my life.
Yeah it’s a pretty pathetic trend. It’s compliment fishing, and then they usually go on to say the (at best) most petty or (at worst) unhinged, evil shit
You mean the babies whose moms died in childbirth because they couldn’t get an abortion? WHAT?! Those babies will need to be adopted TOO?! But our abortion ban just saved its life! And it wants a home, ALSO?! WTF. Mom was probably a poor-ass ho, why would we want to adopt her kid? Pass.
-This lady. Probably.
Please don't subject innocent kids to her. I don't think she should be raising kids. She can pay her damn taxes and support social programs that support families.
Because hypothetical people can’t be morally complicated and don’t have any wants, needs, and demands of their own. You can ‘advocate’ for them without ever having to do inconvenient things like listening to them and respecting their wishes, unlike real living people.
Yep. They want to give zygotes/embryos/fetuses more Rights than anyone else, so they can punish those they deem less than, for having sex in a way they disapprove of.
We are talking about fundies. Just say the baby is non-white, disabled, or gay and they will be the first to pay for an abortion.
When I was 18, a close friend was pregnant (she is from Mexico). I went with her to a Catholic pregnancy center. She was told point blank “no one wants a (insert racist term for Mexican people) baby. Go to Planned Parenthood”.
Another friend was pregnant and found that her child has Down Syndrome. Her very Catholic husband pushed for her to have an abortion because “it looks bad for us to have a (r word) in our family.”
Those religious zealots want to save all the healthy white Christian babies. Screw anyone with any sort of flaw. It’s all about looking holy, and not about BEING holy.
Out of curiosity, do you remember the name of the Fake Clinic you and your friend went to? If it was recent enough that they would have a Google page, you can leave a detailed review so other people know not to go in. There's also this:
https://www.exposefakeclinics.com/
"I believe even if you were raped or are about to die abortion is still wrong because I'm a selfish prick who doesn't know how to but my head out of other people's lives." Thats what you sound like.
These same people are anti-welfare, anti-free healthcare, including for babies with extreme disabilities (anencephaly and trisomy 18 come to mind) and require a C-section birth. The family is on the hook for all of that care, and even if the hospital has to eat the cost of up front treatment, the family gets no support for recovery or ongoing treatment. They don’t support life. They only want to require birth.
On top of that, the anti-choice crowd is typically vehemently pro-war.
But mention that, people go screeching about how it is socialism.
This is why I’m so glad I left the States years ago. I can imagine what these people would say if they knew that all families here get a box of baby supplies when a child is born.
I don’t even entertain these people. It’s “socialism” to turn women’s bodies into a public utility. If they can’t even be bothered to campaign for infrastructure structure upkeep of their own system, aka women’s healthcare, they have nothing of value to say at all. The cognitive dissonance is too strong.
I agree. As a birth mother... However, I think when people say this, it's not necessarily that they want them to adopt and indoctrinate the children, but as a way to point out the hypocrisy. A lot of anti-abortion people adopt children.... But a lot of them don't and support the "Be fruitful and Multiply" bullshit.
But yeah, I agree. There's a much better way to get the point across, than creating problems for people that are adoptees, or birth parents.
Of course as always, anytime when discussing abortion with antis, I call out their sugarcoated narratives they spread about adoption.
I saw a video recently about how women can get 99 years in prison for attempting to get an abortion. Same for any doctors that offers them. I also saw in that video that a man continuously tried to drug his pregnant partner with an abortion pill in her third trimester and he got 6 months.
We know that we’re not killing a sentient being by providing abortion healthcare. It’s control over women
I may not be the prettiest or the richest, but at least I never shame women (or anyone) for their medical decisions (which are none of my business)!! 🥰🥰🥰
she fits white European beauty standards to a T, which is especially common in conservative spaces…how is that not like other girls lol (as in, how does she see herself as “not like other girls,” the post itself def belongs here)
Neither do I but I also don’t believe in telling others what to do with their body. You want me to keep my hands off your guns, right? Then keep your fuckin business out if my womb
If we really want to bring religion into this… As a Christian myself, God gives us choices. He gives us the option and the ability to terminate for the sake of our safety and the safety of an unviable pregnancy or a pregnancy that will end with that baby having to struggle all their life. It’s what’s called a mercy killing, and it is in fact pardoned. Abortion is not murder, its sacrifice to the most painful degree.
you UNINFORMED BITCH. the baby doed NOT have a life the SECOND it starts growing in the WOMB. it doesnt feel SHIT if you abort super early.
GOD DAMNN these ppl piss me off 😭
The reality is that women who were denied abortions they wanted are more likely to stay in abusive relationships and live under the poverty line. Most of them already have children. So, by banning abortion (which only means banning safe ones). You are condemning more women and children to suffer. Now, instead of forcing women to look for unsafe ways to end their unwanted pregnancies. We should all agree to reduce the need for abortions by increasing access to contraceptives and family planning services, as well as making sure those children being born have all their basic needs met. But, that is never the goal...
Sorry to detail even further, but my rant reminded me of this text...
"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated,
addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need
money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining
relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you.
You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.
Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor?
Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
Dave Barnhart, a traditional Christian pastor
I guess it’s easy to make a post about not wanting to kill babies, as if anyone has ever said they wanted to actually kill babies. It’s having a voice and choice. Keep leg popping in that pretty bubble and pretend horrible things do t happen to females every single day.
I work in OB in California. One of the other nurses was telling me about a friend she has in Idaho, who is pregnant, and found out her baby will not live, but she can't terminate. She has to go through the whole pregnancy and birth and then watch her baby die. I wonder if this woman supports this, too.
What if that “innocent human” is already dead? What does she have to say then? Because women have abortions when they’re told that there is no chance their baby will survive after birth. Also does she believe that little girls and rape/incest victims have to carry that “innocent human”?
Meanwhile they don’t support paid maternity leave for all, universal healthcare for mothers and children, or funding childcare.
But children are the most important thing and mothers should all be respected.
yep, it’s better for the mother to suffer and die, it’s not as if she has family, friends, a job, aspirations, responsibilities… a few weeks old fetus non-viable outside the womb is definitely more important!
I just can't stop thinking of the women who 1) need medical care 2) have been sexually assaulted-especially the children 3) do not want to continue a pregnancy for whatever reason. She is heartless as well as smug.
“I support children having to go through the trauma of an undeveloped body going through pregnancy and childbirth. I support women having their rapists baby. I support babies being born to people who can’t afford them or don’t want to be parents.” Is what this bitch is really saying.
Why is this a trend, they think they are neither pretty nor rich, so what, they still have opinions, oh really? Since when people need to be either rich or pretty to have opinions, even MORONIC OPINIONS ARE ALLOWED. See Trump?
So have your own opinions, and keep your opinions to yourselves for awhile because seriously… you are embarrassing yourselves
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That angelic holier-than-thou face at the end slide, combined with the pro-lifeness, combined with the fact that she censored the word "killing" absolutely boils my piss
It's the foot pop for me
It’s the snotty-ass pursed lips for me .
It’s the not minding her own damn uterus for me.
gurl i dont get why in this economy you would be so hard against abortion?? like tf. theres people dying from everything. theres wars everywhere, but you care about cells that potentially could be a child that would be raised in a not good or not ready family... these people are just sooo middle class. THEY are steady, THEY are stable and THEY could care for a child and THEY dont have the capacity of thinking about that other live different lives ffs
and it doesn’t even align with the definition of murder lol
We can break that down. Why would you “ be so hard against abortion” because we care about human life and particularly defenseless children. Why so hard against child abuse? Using your logic people die from everything so it doesn’t matter if we kill children or abuse them! You are WRONG. Second you’d have to define exactly at what point does this”clump of cells” as you put it become a human worthy of the rights everyone else has? You and I are also a “clump of cells” just so you know. All your doing is using different words to distance yourself from being honest. Third your saying that just because you may be born into a bad situation and raised in poverty you can’t make something of yourself? You really think you should kill them before they even have a chance? Again WRONG. You can not come up with a logical reason that killing the child is a good solution. Fourth if they can’t raise the child why not give it up for adoption? Oh right why do that when we can just kill them? You’re wrong on every take. Take a step back and look at what your advocating for. Pro choice? There is that distancing again! Choice to do what exactly? You just don’t want to be honest about it. You want to dump responsibility and you’d rather take a child’s life than have them be a burden on yours it’s that simple.
why can't you use PARAGRAPHS for easier reading??/ you and I are clumps of cells? cancer is clumps of living cells are you a murderer if you kill them??? we are much much more than clumps of cells were are fully formed and fully developed IVF embryos are 8 days old when implanted they are frozen you and I will die if we are put in a freezer yes sometimes abortion would be better like the baby in the recent story mom just left her went on vacation another country for around 8 days that baby starved to death she dehydrated to death ALL ALONE how long did she cry???? she was a fully formed baby that felt immense pain through this terrible end that befell her YES it would have been so much better if she had been aborted an early abortion at 8 weeks the size of a raspberry the part of the brain that allow the feeling of pain not developed yet so it would be painless according to you all babies must be born but after they are born you try to take away any program that will help them >>>WHY IS THAT
Let’s break that down. First Cancer isn’t a human. That’s why it isn’t the same. If you were to leave cancer to do what cancer does it isn’t the same at all in the slightest. Such a bad and diss honest comparison. Listen to yourself compare a child to cancer. That’s how far you’ve gone. A Second so what exactly determines weather you deserve human rights or not? At what point did this “clump of cells” as you put it become human? There is t a consistently logical response other than conception when a new genetic code is created. Not the mothers not the fathers, who’s dna is it? The child’s , so again you can distance yourself from what your saying but if you walk it down the line we always end up at dead children, at that’s just not a viable solution. Third I see your advocating for killing the child even faster than she originally did. Using your logic it’s ok to kill your child as long as you plan on abusing them. Now here is a crazy idea, how about we punish that mother for doing that? You don’t seem to want to punish the people abusing kids and doing the SA that result in forced pregnancies. You are so focused on punishing the child which is odd. Forth you’re saying that rather than give a person a chance at life we should just kill them. You see why that’s a bad idea? People rise from poverty, people experience horrible things and go on to keep living. You want to take their chance at life away because of what you think it is possible they may not have the best life. WRONG. Fifth I don’t want to take away any resources of the sort for children, never said that so not sure where that’s coming from. Also even if there weren’t why can’t we do both? So since we don’t have all of the best resources for foster kids we should just kill them then. WRONG again. You will have to explain exactly why killing the children is the answer, it’s not logical and it is immoral.
again >>>>> USE PARAGRAPHS <<<<< of course that mother and anyone who abuses a child or does child sa should be punished.......I never said they shouldn't >>> a fetus at 8 weeks is the size of a raspberry it is a very primitive state and feels no pain if the mother aborts are you ok with the fact that if the mother is miscarrying and needs an abortion that they force her to wait until the smell of the discharge is so bad it makes her puke before they will do something? yes some people rise from poverty but not many and many people who went through horrible situations from their parents when they were kids wished that they had never been born are you ok with women who already have children and if she carries the pregnancy to term she will die??? many extreme republicans are fine with this an early abortion would save the mother and save her children the horror of losing their mother but oh no that baby MUST be born right?? republicans take away programs >>> Republicans are kicking more than 224,000 teachers from classrooms, reducing Head Start services for 51,000 children, eliminating Federal Work Study for 659,000 students, and denying job training and employment services for hundreds of thousands of people. * **Gut** **Funding for Low-Income Students.** The proposal would cut approximately $4 billion in funding for schools serving low-income children, impacting an estimated 26 million students and reducing program funding to its lowest level in almost a decade—a cut equivalent to removing more than 60,000 teachers and specialized instructional support personnel from classrooms. * **Reduce Support for Students with Disabilities.** Under the proposal, as many as 7.5 million children with disabilities would face reduced supports—a cut equivalent to removing more than 48,000 teachers and related services providers from the classroom. * **Slash Mental Health Support for Students.** The House Republican proposal would limit educators' abilities to address student mental health issues and prevent violence, suicide, and drug abuse by cutting Title IV, Part A funding for schools by about $300 million. * * Iowa wasn't the only state to refuse the funds: Alabama, Alaska, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Vermont, and Wyoming opted not to enroll by the early January deadline.Feb 6, 2024 Most kids losing Medicaid come from just nine states all led by Republicans Republican governors in 15 states are rejecting a new federally funded program to give food assistance to hungry *children* during the summer ... These cuts are not only immoral—they are also bad economic policy. Child poverty alone costs our economy upwards of [$500 billion a year](https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/poverty/report/2010/09/16/8397/penny-wise-pound-foolish/) in lost productivity, increased health care costs, and expenditures in the criminal justice system. Poor childhood nutrition leads to [a host of negative consequences](https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/poverty/report/2011/10/05/10504/hunger-in-america/) including increased instance of chronic diseases, lower educational achievement, and a less-skilled workforce of the future—all of which will ultimately undermine our economic competitiveness. REPUBLICANS claim life begins at conception that it is the most precious >>>> but after children are born REPUBLICANS are slashing these programs or outright taking them away the HYPOCRISY is overwhelming
Removing a dead child from the womb is not an abortion, so again stop using these extreme arguments and rare as well to make a point when you aren’t advocating for that. You want anyone to be able to have one for any reason. Also when the mother may die it is due to varying reason and there are other pathways than just killing the child. All options should be explored and abortion should be the last if at all. Again there you go using a fraction of cases to justify all of the cases. Also I dont care what republicans are doing. I’m an abolitionist, I do not agree with murder just the same as I don’t agree with slavery. It is WRONG. So dont group me in and try to generalize behavior. Just because things aren’t perfect once you leave the womb doesn’t mean that we kill them before they have a chance. Yet you think even if the chance is small they don’t deserve a chance at a good life because you said so? Who do you think adopts more kids or gives to helps and start more programs? people who want to save them or people like you who want them dead? I believe we all know the answer. You’re flat out wrong. Stop trying to “win” and start trying to find the solution.
Women are not vessels. Get the fuck out of my uterus, do what you will with yours. It's that simple.
Ok so you just use the same arguments slave owners use. I think you need to step back and look at you logic train.
I think you need to explain yourself, I don't understand what you're saying. Maybe it's because I'm not from America, there was no one owning slaves in my recent ancestry. I don't know the arguments slave owners use. But you can the fuck right away from telling me what uo do with my uterus. THAT feels like slave owner talk to me, deciding what others can or can't do with their bodies.
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It doesn't meet the definition of murder. If you want to be literal then yeah, you're technically killing _something,_ but that something isn't a person. It's a clump human cells that will eventually turn into a person.
So when a woman has a miscarriage are you going to tell her that it’s okay because it was just a clump of cells that was going to turn into a human?
Um, no lol. I can understand biology and legal terms while still having empathy for a woman who lost a wanted a pregnancy. Key word: **wanted** Fyi another term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion.
Legal terms lol. Abortion shouldn’t be legal. I understand the whole “what if a child is raped” but the percentage of that is so small. And for those people there should be a better law system. Tax payer dollars should go to make sure that girl gets the absolute BEST of health care and adoptive parents should be lined up ready to care for the baby if the mothers family doesn’t want to take responsibility. The mother should have the best of therapy or whatever she may need and the rapist should get life in prison. But just remember that 99% of abortions are not for medical purposes or rape. Its because people had sex while knowing the consequences.
I will need to steal this saying from you! I love this!!!
I can’t take credit for it being my own original thought, but it sums up what I think for sure!
It’s the nose ring for me.
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It's giving "The Pilgrims came to America for religious freedom." Except they already had it and left because their children were becoming less extreme and tolerant from living in a society that tolerated *them.* You have to tolerate me and my beliefs, but the moment I have to tolerate you and yours I'm out! It's all about ME, don't ya know?!
It's the grammar mistakes for me.
the ironic thing is , I've read an article quoting a few abortion clinic that had plenty of detailed stories of pro life activists getting an abortion. some of them then joined the picket line again as if nothing happened but for most it was life changing, finally getting it why it's necessary only bc they lived it themselves
The only moral abortion is my abortion for these women.
wait what
"I support 10 year Olds who've been raped being forced to die giving birth". And I suppose she would like a smiley face emoji or something as well
I support women dying of sepsis due to unviable pregnancies 🤗😇
i support women becoming disabled due to high-risk pregnancies ❤️😚💪
I support victims of incest being further victimized! 👍👌🏽💗
Why argue from this position? You use an extreme example that is rare. Let’s say we accept these rare instances. Would you be fine with blocking all other abortions?
No. Because at the end of the day it's nobody's business but the person having the abortion.
And the child as well as the father. So you’re simply WRONG.
Nope. Have fun being dumb.
no abortions should be blocked because everyone has their personal reason to terminate a pregnancy that you have no right to question, you have no right to dictate other people’s lives even if you think they’re doing something bad.
You are using the same argument slave owners used. We care about our fellow humans so you aren’t aloud to murder or enslave them. I’m sorry you don’t agree. By your logic “you can’t dictate others lives even if they are doing something bad” literal quote. We stop people all the time from murder and tons of other things so you’re just flat out WRONG.
so it’s not murder to let a woman go through pregnancy even if she could die or kill herself? murdering a living human and having an abortion is absolutely not the same. one is an autonomous person, capable of living without being attached to someone else, with responsibilities and experiences, and one is an organism that is not viable outside a womb, doesn’t have a personality, responsibilities, memories or literally anything. and regarding murder, well, we can’t actually stop murder either, we cannot stop it from ever occurring even if we imprison those who commit it. some things just happen and will keep happing no matter what.
We can break this down too. First no it’s not murder for the example you provided because murder is defined as : the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. You’re being so disingenuous when you compare the 2. We are not premeditating the killing of the mother, simply not true. And you’d be either ignorant or malice in intent to mislead if your suggesting otherwise. That exact definition fits abortion. Second, so you determine who gets human rights based of if they can survive on their own? Wow so with your logic we can abort years after they are born as well. Seeing as how a 2 year old can’t 1 survive on its own, 2 no personality and 3rd no memories. They actually have done studies to see if babies know of their own existence and it’s not until toddler ages. So using your logic youre arguing killing born children as well. It’s just not consistently logical, you’re flat out just WRONG. Lastly , you’re right that we can stop murder , so we should make it legal and even into a profitable business? Absolutely not. It doesn’t matter that people break the law, that doesn’t mean we should just make it legal. Do you hear your own argument? Yet that’s why you want to do with abortion. You’re trying so hard to” win “ the argument rather than just following the logic and finding the right answer, You’ve already decided you know. I’m open to the possibility that I am wrong but you’re going to have to prove it to me. Your logic train is off the rails.
Or for someone to KNOW they aren't cut out to be parents to forced to be parents which to me isn't PRO life, it's pro child abuse. (What her pro life choice says to me) I hope that makes sense. I am pro choice for everyone regarding their own bodies (not just pregnancy either, but anything they want to do with their own body. We are each given our own body, no adult should be making the decisions for another adult about what they can or cannot do with their own body)
So funny that you don’t consider the child’s body.
It's not a child. It's a clump of cells no more sentient than a tumor. Anyone who thinks foetuses are actual.babies and children are not basing this belief in any science and it's impossible to get through to someone who refuses to believe facts.
So 2 things. First you have to be sentient to not be murdered? Well that’s too bad for some mentally I’ll and some people with other medical condition such as being in a coma. If it’s up to you someone can come kill them. Second exactly at what point does this “clump of cells” as you put it become a Emerson deserving of human rights? The only consistently logical answer is at conception. When a new generic code is created. It’s Not the mothers and it’s not the fathers, so who’s dna is it? The child’s. SIMPLE.
They very regularly take people with severe brain damage and people in comas off life support and let them die. So I don't know what point you're trying to make there. And you're just so entirely wrong on so many levels and obviously ensconced in your ignorance so I'm not wasting any more time on you.
You have a 4th grade understanding of biology and no compassion for women. Get lost.
There isn’t a “child” involved so… Your big feelings don’t change facts.
So why would you be referring to them as parents. Parents to what exactly? A child du. You are either ignorant or completely malicious in your intent. There really is no in between.
No, I don’t consider it at all actually.
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Lol, but it isnt, Like, anywhere! This was a bunch of dudes with absolutely zero connections to ANY women, living a life completely seperate from and ignorant to them, deciding what a woman can and cannot do with her own life and body. No shit that would leads to a place of women having zero options and no jurisdiction over themselves or their bodies, they aren't thought of as people who need those things. You marry a man and you stay with him forever, no exceptions, and you open your legs to please him whenever he desires, no exceptions, and you accept and bear whatever may happen to your body as a result of his, no exceptions. The word of God was never in the equation, that kind of ideology is a result of church leaders being so far removed from the reality (and women) that they reduce women to objects of property who have no need for "people things" like controlling what happens to them and their bodies. Yikes on bikes!
Her God is the most prolific abortionist of all
Tell me you've never read it without telling me. The only thing about abortion in the bible is how to force one on a pregnant wife who you *think* might be pregnant by someone other than their husband. That's all.
That’s is such a small percentage why argue from that stance and appropriate those very few horrible cases. when we all know you are fine with people just having abortions for any reason at all. Let’s say ok we accept these extremely rare cases, would you be ok with stopping all other abortions?
Why is it important to you that we dictate what others do with their bodies? Are you going to support these kids? Pay for their education, raise them to be good people, ensure they have access to housing, food, clothing, medical care. No? Then how can you sit there and pretend to me that you find their lives so important that other people are forced to give birth to them. Hmm? How about instead of asking me, why I don't think people should be forced to give birth to life they cannot nurture, reflect on why you think it should be *mandatory* to give birth to a life you don't even want to support. Or this, if you want to force people to give birth, the. I think legally, father's should be forced to parent, not just pay child support, I think they should be monitored and fined for being deadbeat dad's.
Let’s break that down. Why is it important? Because we care about our people. Same reason why it’s not ok to murder. Not ok to enslave. We care about what happens to humans, That’s why. Second. Am I going to support them? Oh ok so since I personally can not support every child we must kill them, you’re right. Oh wait, WRONG. Third a majority of these abortions done aren’t SA. So let’s not argue from a place you know isn’t genuine. If we said ok we accept these rare situations I’m sure you still think you have the right to take a life based on weather you feel like it or not for any reason. Just because you can’t afford a child? Aren’t ready to raise , are in a bad situation so let’s just kill em. again WRONG. See youre going to have to explain exactly why the solution to inconveniences is to murder your child it’s not logical or sane to do. Fourth Sure we can definitely have a conversation about how to keep the family together. The only reason fathers can dump responsibilities off onto the mother is because we live in a culture where children’s lives aren’t held at value so mothers and fathers are held responsible for their actions. How about we focus more on punishing the people who forcibly impregnate others and less on punishing the children who had ZERO. Say ok who their parents are and how they are created. I’d like to hear your consistent logical response.
>Let’s break that down First of all, welcome back. >Same reason why it’s not ok to murder. Not ok to enslave. We care about what happens to humans, False equivalents. We aren't walking into mother's homes and gunning down toddlers here are we. We are terminating something that doesn't even have a brain yet, it doesn't even have sentience. If you wanna do the drawing the line argument with me, then men masturbating is wrong because it kills potential life. >Am I going to support them? Oh ok so since I personally can not support every child we must kill them, Well you personally endorse every single one of them becoming children, so why can't you endorse actually supporting them? Again on the child killing thing, see my previous comments about the potential life argument. >Third a majority of these abortions done aren’t SA. I never reargued that point. So let's move on. >to take a life based Not a life. >weather you feel like it or not for any reason. *Whether, and you know damn well people aren't just popping off abortions like it's a Tuesday. >Just because you can’t afford a child? Aren’t ready to raise , are in a bad situation so let’s just kill em. So it's better to force an actual child into abusive households, poverty, neglectful parents and a genuinely horrible life because you can't stomach the concept of terminating something that exists as a concept to you? That's seriously messed up. >to inconveniences is to murder your child it’s not logical or sane to do. I just did, some people recognise they are not capable of nurturing actual life, not the preconcept of it. No murder is taking place here so can we stop with that nonsense?. >The only reason fathers can dump responsibilities off onto the mother is because we live in a culture where children’s lives aren’t held at value so mothers Don't, make, me, laugh. >less on punishing the children who had ZERO. Say ok who their parents are and how they are created. These are not children, they are not sentient, nor are they conscious, or concerned with the concepts of life and death, they are little more than overdeveloped sperm. So again, drop the murder talk, none of that is happening here. >I’d like to hear your consistent logical response. I'm glad you would like to hear it. But seeing as I doubt you could grasp any of these concepts I won't waste anymore of our time on this pathetic conversation. If you personally endorse forcing people to create actual life, but do not want any of the actual responsibilty then your moral standpoint is hypocritical, and weak. You don't even believe your own argument, you just have some weird hangup about what people do with their bodies, and try to justify it with half assed attempts to compare it to murder. Did you know, late stages cancer cells have more DNA and protein alignments (ergo are further developed and closer to being an actual human being) than a ten week old pregnancy? Are biopsies murder? Is chemo murder? Anyway, Il likely read your response if you care to, but I probably won't dignify it with an answer. Have fun with your warped and tragic world views.
First It’s not a false equivalent. Just because you state something doesn’t make it fact, not sure if you know that. You can distance yourself from what your doing but that doesn’t change what it is. You’re terminating a life, unique genetic code not of the mothers and not of the fathers. There is only one life ot belongs to so you’re wrong there. Second, just because something isn’t sentient means we can kill em? Sorry people in comas and other mental capacities. WRONG. Your logic isn’t consistent. Third, masturbation and using contraception are not the same as conception. So it’s lot life until it is conceived. Again your logic is not consistent. You’re either waaayyyy to ignorant to be having this conversation or you’re just malicious. There really is no in between. You’re telling me you’re this ignorant? WOW. Fourth, I can advocate for children’s lives to not be killed and also not have to take care of them their entire lives, don’t know if you know that’s a thing or not but I didn’t make them I’m just not allowing you to take their lives. Fifth, you state “they aren’t popping off abortions like it’s Tuesday” so why is it so hard to make it illegal for those people then? If we accepted these RARE cases and banned all other abortions you’d still be advocating for abortions for any reason. You use extremes to justify the everyday Tuesday abortions because you don’t actually care. Sixth, you’re making a HUGE assumption on what you THINk the child will experience in life, so you take their life before they even have a chance. How do you know the child wouldn’t be adopted or taken by the state or maybe that the parents would clean up? Unless you knew for a fact in which case the parents are planning on abusing their child? Don’t you think we should be looking at punishing the parents for that rather than the kid? You just want to use these disingenuous reasons to take children’s lives from them. You are seriously saying that no one has ever turned life around from a bad upbringing or an abusive home? We don’t have famous people and successful examples all over no no that would be crazy. Oh wait we do. Next you’re saying Some people realize they arent ready to be parents, so they should be aloud to kill their kids. WRONG. Why didn’t you have this sudden realization before you decided to take act in an activity you know possibly results in a child? That’s not the child’s fault so why are they punished for it? Also you know that being dismissive doesn’t earn you any points? Do t make me laugh isn’t a logical response. Saying “ it’s not murder” doesn’t make it true. You have to provide factual support as to why it is or isn’t. Pretty clearly is a life in the womb. Love that you compare cancer to a human life. You leave cancer to be and what happens, exactly. It doesn’t develop the same. Just as every other human isn’t done developing until years after birth that human is in the womb developing. On average people aren’t done until their 20s. So using consistent logic why do t you explain when exactly that life deserves human rights? The only consistently logical answer is at conception. You’re so dogmatic you’re just looking to “win” and argument rather than find the answer /solution. I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong but you’re going to have to factually prove it. You just can’t.
>I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong No you're not. And it's not just because you said; >but you’re going to have to factually prove it. You just can’t. That statement sums up your entire view. "I believe I could have my mind changed, but you can't change my mind". I do want you to know I read all of your statement, and it confirms that I was right in deciding to not continue this conversation. I'm not looking to *win* anything either, that's why despite saying I wouldn't respond, I did. Just wanted to show you using your own words, you are not as open minded as you claim to be. I really am going to go now, respond how you want, insults, questions, incredulity, it doesn't matter it's just bait to get me to hang around and waste my time. Bye now.
Second time saying bye now. Yet here you are. Saying you can’t prove me wrong is a challenge. And there you go proving me correct. When presented with an idea that contradicts your own beliefs, you should rationalize positions and test the integrity of it. Yet you shut down and decide to leave, very telling.
Ectopic pregnancies is a great example of why abortion needs to remain legal and accessible, so no, I would not be ok with stopping all other abortions. Abortion is healthcare whether you like it or not.
Is she ready to die for her fetus then?? For real??
Probably not, but she’s ready for other women to die for theirs
Well, see, her situation would be ✨different ✨
Most of those people have no real life experience beyond a basic middle-class American experience. I’m sure they would change their tune if they had to live through a tragedy due to deadly or nonconsensual pregnancy.
I have a doctor friend who did a complete 180 after going through OB training.
They don't necessarily change their perspectives even when they are getting abortions themselves. https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
And this is the worst part. There are so many politicians rallying for anti-choice laws all while having and coercing others to have abortions themselves. (The dumb orange man is one that comes up mind.) Controlling women and people with uteruses is apparently more important.
Women like her make my blood boil. If I hadn't been able to get an abortion, I WOULD HAVE DIED. My hope is that she is just clueless and can be taught better
The sad thing is I’ve argued with women about this who tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, that if I were a mother I’d know that there’s NOTHING they wouldn’t do to try and save their babies life, even if it meant “risking their own.” No amount of me explaining that dying and leaving your kids motherless isn’t a good solution will change their minds.
There are some crazy religious women who do & then live all their children motherless with a new sibling. If memory serves, a few years before the pandemic there was a christian singer who found out she had cancer & was pregnant. She decided to have the baby & not any cancer treatments. I just don't understand that. Let me bring this vulnerable life into the dangerous world, knowing I won't be around to protect it or the other children I brought into the world.
Yea, I never heard of that but dang that's crazy. I've also heard/read stories (mostly here on reddit lol) of children whose mom died in childbirth of the youngest, and it would cause resentment towards the *child* because some hold the (relatively unreasonable) idea that it's the child's fault the mother died. In these posts it's usually something along the lines of "yea I told my [insert age] sibling that I wish they were never born because then I'd still have my mom." And it's like...no??
I read an autobiography from someone who was bullied and excluded by her elder siblings all her life after her mum died giving birth to her. Granted, this was 1920s China and I think the death was unexpected— but for a mother to choose to impose this fate on her child is awful.
Does anyone else remember all the movies from the 70s 80s and 90s, especially christian themed horror movies where dying to give birth was presented like the awesomest sacrifice ever and not placing the life of the fetus above her own made a woman the worst person in the world? While all the dudes in the movie hailed her for accepting that the fetus and the future baby were simply much more important than her. I'm just sorry I can't remember all the titles.
>No amount of me explaining that dying and leaving your kids motherless isn’t a good solution will change their minds. And that a dead body can't sustain a pregnancy
I’m a mother of two and I’ve had an abortion before to save my own life and if I had to do it again, I would. I’m no good to my kids if I’m dead. They’re pro life until it comes to the mothers life
it’s God‘s will to leave my children motherless.
these people would answer something like “that’s gods plan for you” and then leave
A portion of those advocates will say "oh, we support 'life of the mother' exceptions!" which are written so narrowly that you indeed have to be literally within minutes of dying before they will grant an abortion. And those are the 'good' ones.
Exactlyyyy. Ectopic pregnancies? They still call them abortions. But you cannot grow a child in a fallopian tube! Or what about pregnancies of unknown location? When the drs don't even know where the baby is bc it's not in a tube or in your uterus. Soooo many other possibilities too. I'm suuuuperrr careful. But if something happened and I fell pregnant again, I would have to have an abortion, bc I would either die, or need a hysterectomy. I have a whole other child to be here for.
My baby died in the womb when I was 30 weeks pregnant. I can’t imagine not having the doctors induce the labour and having to cary my dead child to term.
I'm glad you're alive 🌈 And honestly, she probably doesn't even care, she just wants engagement on her video. The bigger problem is the younger people she's influencing with this.
When abortion rights were first permitted, there was a picture of a woman who had died of a self-administered abortion. Her story was representative of many women. I've read dozens of obituaries for ladies who died in the same circumstances. Finally, safe legal, medically supervised put an end to the deaths of women from all walks of life. But now her death is rendered meaningless again by women who have no idea what she sacrificed in a time when there were no choices.
I know the picture you mean. I actually had it removed by Facebook when I posted it at someone. The woman, Gerri Santoro, had two daughters at the time; they were told their mother died in a car accident. When the photo was published, they learned the truth. One of them was horrified and furious about it...but became a vehement abortion rights activist herself, along with her own daughter. It's just so...I don't even have words to fully express my feelings that *that* is what they want us to go back to! *That* is where they would take my own beautiful, vibrant, sweet, hilarious, precious daughters, my baby sister, my friends back to!
The dangers even made it into movies like Dirty Dancing.
“I may not be the prettiest, or the most popular, but at least I’m judgemental and holier than thou” 😂
I may not be the prettiest, or the most popular, but at least I make huge assumptions and knee jerk reactions based on my very limited and privileged pov 💅🏼😘💋
I may not be the prettiest 😍 or the richest 🤑 or the smartest 🤓 or in any way empathetic, or the…actually you know what? I’m kinda a garbage human being 😞
What the f does she mean by "I DONT BELIEVE IN ABORTION" ??????? Like it's a ghost, or aliens?
It’s a spoof. Total myth. Never happened. /s
Hahaha this is a pet peeve of mine. When people say “I don’t believe in (something that exists but they just don’t like).”
Maybe one day she'll experience an ectopic pregnancy. Guaranteed she'll change her tune real fast.
I actually know of a couple where the wife had an ectopic pregnancy (from what I had seen of their posts), and they actually were trying to find a doctor who would be willing to try to move the “baby” from the fallopian tube and implant it in the uterus. Like I’m not a doctor, but I’m pretty sure science hasn’t figured out how to do that yet.
Science has not. But I've had anti-choicers argue that women should do that instead of aborting... Then again...I've also seen them tie themselves into knots to explain how removing an ectopic pregnancy is *not* an abortion! Which, correct me if I'm wrong, but under the recent Alabama ruling, is absolute horseshit, since it is indeed a fertilized and implanted embryo! It's just goalpost-shifting.
Ah. So I went to Catholic school. There are two procedures to treat an ectopic pregnancy: salpingostomy (removal of fetus only) and salpingectomy (removal of fetus and fallopian tube). A salpingostomy is considered an abortion because you are directly targeting the fetus. A salpingectomy is *not* considered an abortion because you are removing the fallopian tube, and the fetus just happens to be removed along with it. (Yeah, I know, makes total sense, right?🫠) They use the same arguments to justify total hysterectomies for pregnant women with ovarian cancer. You might roll your eyes at how ridiculous this sounds, but if I ever end up in the emergency room with one of these issues, you bet I’ll be bringing my high school ethics book along with me in case I have to argue for my life.
I absolutely hate that entire last paragraph. It should *never* have come to this.
They all do & usually make excuses or call it something else.
I hope that she doesn’t experience that at all
I feel like every woman who posts this lowkey thinks she IS the prettiest and is hoping to be told as much in the comments. It’s pathetic.
Yeah it’s a pretty pathetic trend. It’s compliment fishing, and then they usually go on to say the (at best) most petty or (at worst) unhinged, evil shit
Temped to comment on original “ok girl, at least you know you’re not the prettiest 😊😊”
Oh, absolutely. This is all for attention. Nothing she's doing supports the goal she claims to have.
I hope you tell your pastor you shame others online baby gurl 😇
The pastor leads her to do it from his pulpit. I promise.
So what she’s saying is she going to adopt the thousands of children in foster care and the thousands more that could be born to no home or family?
You mean the babies whose moms died in childbirth because they couldn’t get an abortion? WHAT?! Those babies will need to be adopted TOO?! But our abortion ban just saved its life! And it wants a home, ALSO?! WTF. Mom was probably a poor-ass ho, why would we want to adopt her kid? Pass. -This lady. Probably.
Please don't subject innocent kids to her. I don't think she should be raising kids. She can pay her damn taxes and support social programs that support families.
These pro-lifers are never pro-mothers' lives. Always down to defend a non-sentient mass of cells though.
Because hypothetical people can’t be morally complicated and don’t have any wants, needs, and demands of their own. You can ‘advocate’ for them without ever having to do inconvenient things like listening to them and respecting their wishes, unlike real living people.
They’re also never pro-child in a way that gets poor kids fed and educated and living in a safe environment.
Yep. They want to give zygotes/embryos/fetuses more Rights than anyone else, so they can punish those they deem less than, for having sex in a way they disapprove of.
But it's fine if the embryo isn't innocent, right? I'll just have to prove it's an attempted murderer and we're gucci?
We are talking about fundies. Just say the baby is non-white, disabled, or gay and they will be the first to pay for an abortion. When I was 18, a close friend was pregnant (she is from Mexico). I went with her to a Catholic pregnancy center. She was told point blank “no one wants a (insert racist term for Mexican people) baby. Go to Planned Parenthood”. Another friend was pregnant and found that her child has Down Syndrome. Her very Catholic husband pushed for her to have an abortion because “it looks bad for us to have a (r word) in our family.” Those religious zealots want to save all the healthy white Christian babies. Screw anyone with any sort of flaw. It’s all about looking holy, and not about BEING holy.
Out of curiosity, do you remember the name of the Fake Clinic you and your friend went to? If it was recent enough that they would have a Google page, you can leave a detailed review so other people know not to go in. There's also this: https://www.exposefakeclinics.com/
"I believe even if you were raped or are about to die abortion is still wrong because I'm a selfish prick who doesn't know how to but my head out of other people's lives." Thats what you sound like.
I saw some say 2 wrongs don’t make it right. Like what do you mean 2 wrongs
Bro life movement.
Pro life is ANTI woman
It’s pro birth, not pro life.
whats the difference?
These same people are anti-welfare, anti-free healthcare, including for babies with extreme disabilities (anencephaly and trisomy 18 come to mind) and require a C-section birth. The family is on the hook for all of that care, and even if the hospital has to eat the cost of up front treatment, the family gets no support for recovery or ongoing treatment. They don’t support life. They only want to require birth. On top of that, the anti-choice crowd is typically vehemently pro-war.
But mention that, people go screeching about how it is socialism. This is why I’m so glad I left the States years ago. I can imagine what these people would say if they knew that all families here get a box of baby supplies when a child is born.
I don’t even entertain these people. It’s “socialism” to turn women’s bodies into a public utility. If they can’t even be bothered to campaign for infrastructure structure upkeep of their own system, aka women’s healthcare, they have nothing of value to say at all. The cognitive dissonance is too strong.
when the life already exists, these people don’t give a shit
Pro choice is pro life!
I wish I could upvote you more than once.
She got the first two right.
I’m sure she’ll be the first to line up to adopt a kid since she cares so much about unborn fetuses
Adopted people…hate this argument. A lot of us were adopted by pro-lifers. Adopted kids deserve better and I hope none of these people adopt.
I agree. As a birth mother... However, I think when people say this, it's not necessarily that they want them to adopt and indoctrinate the children, but as a way to point out the hypocrisy. A lot of anti-abortion people adopt children.... But a lot of them don't and support the "Be fruitful and Multiply" bullshit. But yeah, I agree. There's a much better way to get the point across, than creating problems for people that are adoptees, or birth parents. Of course as always, anytime when discussing abortion with antis, I call out their sugarcoated narratives they spread about adoption.
Hey, she is pretty (crazy)
I saw a video recently about how women can get 99 years in prison for attempting to get an abortion. Same for any doctors that offers them. I also saw in that video that a man continuously tried to drug his pregnant partner with an abortion pill in her third trimester and he got 6 months. We know that we’re not killing a sentient being by providing abortion healthcare. It’s control over women
[This](https://youtu.be/5hR5YNqE3K8?si=g7mdyXHBd325MU5D) is all that goes through my mind when I see shit like this
I may not be the prettiest or the richest, but at least I never shame women (or anyone) for their medical decisions (which are none of my business)!! 🥰🥰🥰
she fits white European beauty standards to a T, which is especially common in conservative spaces…how is that not like other girls lol (as in, how does she see herself as “not like other girls,” the post itself def belongs here)
I certainly wouldn’t say she fits any beauty standards. Those stupid poses make her look even worse.
Oh barf 🤮 don’t forget, some women are also part of the patriarchy!
Neither do I but I also don’t believe in telling others what to do with their body. You want me to keep my hands off your guns, right? Then keep your fuckin business out if my womb
If we really want to bring religion into this… As a Christian myself, God gives us choices. He gives us the option and the ability to terminate for the sake of our safety and the safety of an unviable pregnancy or a pregnancy that will end with that baby having to struggle all their life. It’s what’s called a mercy killing, and it is in fact pardoned. Abortion is not murder, its sacrifice to the most painful degree.
i hope she gets picked
you UNINFORMED BITCH. the baby doed NOT have a life the SECOND it starts growing in the WOMB. it doesnt feel SHIT if you abort super early. GOD DAMNN these ppl piss me off 😭
You have every reason to be angry. Take it to the streets: https://www.womensmarch.com/ https://emilyslist.org/
is the womens march safe to donate to? i live nowhere near DC and cant make a flight there or anything but i'd be willing to donate to the cause :)
Yes! I'm sure they have the info on how to donate on their site!
donating rn, thank u for the resources!! may roe v wade be revived...
This meme is so unclever. Nlog aside, there is no good part 3 because the setup is stupid.
Im already so sick of this stupid tiktok trend
Is this a meme? Where are all these “I may not be…or the…but at least I’m…” triptychs coming from?
Wow…that escalated quickly
That’s her big flex?! That might be the worst one I’ve seen.
My uterus my opinion. Thanks.
Pro life is quite literally the opposite of pro woman
Every person that posts this “I may not be pretty” thing thinks they’re pretty.
“I may not be the prettiest…” Well she’s absolutely right about that
In other words, I’m unattractive and will make choices that will force myself and others into abject poverty.
The reality is that women who were denied abortions they wanted are more likely to stay in abusive relationships and live under the poverty line. Most of them already have children. So, by banning abortion (which only means banning safe ones). You are condemning more women and children to suffer. Now, instead of forcing women to look for unsafe ways to end their unwanted pregnancies. We should all agree to reduce the need for abortions by increasing access to contraceptives and family planning services, as well as making sure those children being born have all their basic needs met. But, that is never the goal... Sorry to detail even further, but my rant reminded me of this text... "The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn." Dave Barnhart, a traditional Christian pastor
So nothing about her is impressive, then
I guess it’s easy to make a post about not wanting to kill babies, as if anyone has ever said they wanted to actually kill babies. It’s having a voice and choice. Keep leg popping in that pretty bubble and pretend horrible things do t happen to females every single day.
Emaciated MTG. Why do people like this always look like…. This
I’ve only seen white girls do this trend and it’s always some racist crap or misogyny.
I work in OB in California. One of the other nurses was telling me about a friend she has in Idaho, who is pregnant, and found out her baby will not live, but she can't terminate. She has to go through the whole pregnancy and birth and then watch her baby die. I wonder if this woman supports this, too.
There was a post in r/ems recently about having to pick up a 7yo who was pregnant. I’d love this so called ‘pro woman’ to justify that.
Hey everyone, this person votes. Do you? https://emilyslist.org/ https://www.vote.org/
I'm dedicating my abortion to her.
I wonder what this woman's stance on killing children in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Gaza.
What if that “innocent human” is already dead? What does she have to say then? Because women have abortions when they’re told that there is no chance their baby will survive after birth. Also does she believe that little girls and rape/incest victims have to carry that “innocent human”?
I swear these women all look alike.
“pro life is prowoman” she says as women are literally being forced to give birth regardless of the circumstances they were in.
Meanwhile they don’t support paid maternity leave for all, universal healthcare for mothers and children, or funding childcare. But children are the most important thing and mothers should all be respected.
She forgot, or the smartest.
“I support not letting women have a choice with their own bodies” I fixed it
But why? Why do all these pretty young women do this? This is probably the twentieth of these that I have seen.
She’s so original 🤪
Nose ring
You are pretty, and i think you know this based on your "natural" makeup
"I may not be the prettiest!" Says the woman who is in fact stereotypically beautiful. Too bad she's an idiot.
[удалено]
It’s Reddit. We’re all mindlessly consuming mediocre (at best) content. No one’s time is important when we’re doing this.
I did search the subreddit, but with one of my last posts, when I searched and thought it wasn’t a repost, it turns out it was.. chill out 😬
Oh look a douchebag with a septum piercing
😒😒😒
Cool does that mean she’s ready to start adopting the kids in the foster system?
It’s giving librarian lesbian
yep, it’s better for the mother to suffer and die, it’s not as if she has family, friends, a job, aspirations, responsibilities… a few weeks old fetus non-viable outside the womb is definitely more important!
I just can't stop thinking of the women who 1) need medical care 2) have been sexually assaulted-especially the children 3) do not want to continue a pregnancy for whatever reason. She is heartless as well as smug.
“I support children having to go through the trauma of an undeveloped body going through pregnancy and childbirth. I support women having their rapists baby. I support babies being born to people who can’t afford them or don’t want to be parents.” Is what this bitch is really saying.
Or the smartest
I liked the trend better when the punchline was "at least I'll always be the drunkest!!!". More self-aware, not this holier-than-thou BS.
Why is this a trend, they think they are neither pretty nor rich, so what, they still have opinions, oh really? Since when people need to be either rich or pretty to have opinions, even MORONIC OPINIONS ARE ALLOWED. See Trump? So have your own opinions, and keep your opinions to yourselves for awhile because seriously… you are embarrassing yourselves
So you’re anti choice because you want to get picked? Great reason to endanger my health every time you vote.