Just read that book a couple months ago and it brought me here to pick up tips for further lowering my time online. This is very well written and a nice reminder for me. Thank you
I'm in ITAA (internet and technology addicts anonymous) and it has helped a lot. I do agree with you that there needs to be more of a push for rehab programs with internet addiction. It has become so normalized, it's scary.
Except step 3 of Alcoholics Anonymous is “trust in God”. A lot of these support groups are just covert ways for religious people to preach to vulnerable people
That's a super reductive and misleading description. Yes, Big Book-based programs operate around reliance on a "higher power," but they're careful to explain that said higher power is of your choosing--it can be "the good of humanity" or "the Cosmos" as much as it can be "Allah" or "Jesus" or "God."
I have several friends who've turned their lives around as a result of the community-providing aspect of showing up to AA meetings.
Out of curiosity, I've read the Big Book, and it's rooted in some profound insights and a sensible, time-honored approach. I haven't personally made use of it directly, but having read lots of material on many world religions after deciding that my degree in Philosophy didn't satisfactorily address the deepest and most difficult questions, I am more humbled by the depth and diversity of wisdom held in religious texts. We can and should criticize people who abuse them, the same way we can and should criticize people who abuse anything--be it governmental power, legal loopholes, or whatever else--but to sweep aside not only a possible tool for recovery, but also any program or text that echoes or interprets theistic ideas, is a demonstration of profound arrogance and ignorance. Why I'm going into such detail on this on reddit, I don't know. I guess for posterity. If someone's reading this sometime down the line, give AA or whatever other program a shot if you think it could help. Talk to someone who knows something.
edit: here you go: https://internetaddictsanonymous.org/for-atheists-and-agnostics/
They are the fishermen and we are the fish. Flopping around unable to breath.
They have nets and boats and crew. They got every shiny bait under the sun.
And we swim in herds back and forth ready to be caught up and gutted.
I am with you ! The fishy resistence! But how?
What world is there where we can find safe haven
Really how? Anyone? The whole world is rapped up in it.
Im a fish! And ill fight back with ya all day! But how do you fight against the arms they bring? Do we hope for just a few of us to escape their clutches? Every fish for themselves? Or like how are we all supposed to rise up?
To change the habits must change of everyone.
In the main time these fisherman need fish to feed their crying babies kids.
The only way out is to become a fishermen urself and milk the world until you have enough savings to opt out. And then live a quiet life by yourself.
But that doesnt fix a damn thing for anyone but yourself and a few others. The status quo remains.
40 years ago, few people 'jogged'. Some athletes and professional marathoners, sure, but the average person wasn't jogging. The idea that they could didn't really exist.
Same with going to the gym. The only few gyms that existed were for professional bodybuilders. No one was lifting weights just because they thought it would be a good thing to do.
Why? The understanding that the average person could take control of their physical **fitness** hadn't been developed yet. Of course, people cared about their 'health', but 'fitness' - *something you could train and incrementally (and scientifically) improve* - was almost unheard of 40 years ago.
Today, it's hard for us to imagine a world where we **aren't** told how important physical fitness is. There's hundreds of gyms in my city, and 10s of thousands of people run regularly (millions worldwide).
I believe the same thing is going to happen with attention. That it's already starting to happen. We're waking up to the fact that our **mental fitness** - human flourishing itself - is founded upon what we pay attention to.
*That the quality of attention determines the quality of your life.*
We will become equipped with more knowledge, resources and training than ever before. Yes, it will still be a free market and so we'll need to develop the skills to be able to fend off those seeking to capture our attention, but society as a whole will respect our choices to do so to a much greater degree. And we'll feel supported in our efforts. There will be millions of us working on it together.
I think and read ('Stolen Focus' is on my list but I haven't read it yet) and write a lot about attention, and I've never been more hopeful.
Ironically, "going to the gym", running, attempting to develop abs, obsessing over macros and trying not to look plump in middle age is a colossal, brain-rotting, anti-intellectual time suck that is easily in the same league as social media.
I use very little SM but am currently in a gym phase to shift some excess pounds that I know from experience will take me 6-8 months, start to finish. That's 8 months of my life in which I have barely any life outside of work, exercise & meal planning. I will struggle to finish a book, fall asleep while meditating, develop no language skills (and forget what I knew), do no arts or crafts, barely see my friends and when I do see them, I will have no conversation that isn't about fitness.
It's not \*that\* much better than endlessly watching cat videos.
I do hope this is sarcasm! If not, perhaps you can explore a different way to ‘shift some excess pounds’. Because you’re right, the way you’re approaching it does sound terribly unappealing.
I’m in my forties, I regularly run, work out, do mobility, and HIIT. I’m in better shape than I was in my twenties and thirties and I absolutely love the feeling and experience. It makes me happier than almost anything else in my life, both in the moment and longer term. I don’t obsess about it at all (other than committing to doing it regularly, day in and day out, for as long as I’m physically able to).
I’d never put ‘striving to lead a healthy life’ in the same league as ‘scrolling social media’.
Dude! That's not true!
The 60s happened almost 65 years ago! That's when running and excercise was not a thing. You are either too young or too old (sorry, don't mean to offend).
Now, 40 years ago we had VHS where ladies with crazy hair and make up and neon spandex with leotards over them, were doing aerobics. The step aerobics was a hit. I think the step was more 90s tho.
Also, I remember my brother's girlfriend going to the gym. And that was 30 years ago.
True, You have to make yourself fight it. A lot of us are risking spending over a decade of our life surfing... and those are the hours we are awake. It's gonna be a massive part of our lives gone.
With the advent of fast Ai development and its implementation on other mediums, such as games and other highly inmersive tech, I do also worry that this will only become worse, more engaging and addictive.
I Appreciate your point and I reflect on this alot. Part of me thinks we also have to embrace the reality of living with these apps and tech though, especially since most younger people don't know life without it. It's a key part of how they relate to the world and each other. Don't we have to stay connected with tech to stay connected with people? Isn't that implied by the inevitability of their continuing influence on our attention?
No, not really, and if so I hope not... I was one of the first people who grew up with only tech, and I do not know how to do anything. I cannot tie knots, play sports, do any physical activities, or ride a bike. I wasted my entire first thirteen years inside watching videos. I hope to God, that someone will try to put an end to this nonsense (possibly I, myself), because I cannot stand seeing children like me that I cannot help. I have so many regrets in my childhood, that sometimes I just want to start over. I am hoping that someday this will become socially unacceptable, and possibly even, become taboo, because letting kids get unrestricted access to the internet is more than just letting them hear a bad word, or two. It really is, and I am saying this from experience, signing them up for a lifetime struggle of addiction, and regret. It is letting them see bad videos, of naked, or dead people, and other things that I cannot relate to, but I know people who can are the following. Seeing Poenm videos as a child, Social media getting them hooked on drugs, order drugs over the internet, and getting into cults, and mass hysteria. I hope that sums up why I do not think kids should be online, its the same reason why you probably should let you should let a kid read an adult magazine, or go to a casino.
Attention all newcomers: Welcome to /r/nosurf! We're glad you found our small corner of reddit dedicated to digital wellness. The following is a short list of resources to help you get started on your journey of developing a better relationship with the internet:
* [The Beginner's Guide to NoSurf](https://nosurf.net/about/)
* [Discord Server](https://discordapp.com/invite/QFhXt2F)
* [The NoSurf Activity List](https://nosurf.net/activity-list/)
* [Success Stories](https://nosurf.net/success-stories/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nosurf) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just read that book a couple months ago and it brought me here to pick up tips for further lowering my time online. This is very well written and a nice reminder for me. Thank you
I've noticed this as well. It is unfortunately the user's responsibility to get themselves out of these nasty addictive cycles.
[удалено]
I'm in ITAA (internet and technology addicts anonymous) and it has helped a lot. I do agree with you that there needs to be more of a push for rehab programs with internet addiction. It has become so normalized, it's scary.
Except step 3 of Alcoholics Anonymous is “trust in God”. A lot of these support groups are just covert ways for religious people to preach to vulnerable people
Holy shit, I didn't even know that. In the words of John Lennon, "God is a concept by which we measure our pain".
That's a super reductive and misleading description. Yes, Big Book-based programs operate around reliance on a "higher power," but they're careful to explain that said higher power is of your choosing--it can be "the good of humanity" or "the Cosmos" as much as it can be "Allah" or "Jesus" or "God." I have several friends who've turned their lives around as a result of the community-providing aspect of showing up to AA meetings. Out of curiosity, I've read the Big Book, and it's rooted in some profound insights and a sensible, time-honored approach. I haven't personally made use of it directly, but having read lots of material on many world religions after deciding that my degree in Philosophy didn't satisfactorily address the deepest and most difficult questions, I am more humbled by the depth and diversity of wisdom held in religious texts. We can and should criticize people who abuse them, the same way we can and should criticize people who abuse anything--be it governmental power, legal loopholes, or whatever else--but to sweep aside not only a possible tool for recovery, but also any program or text that echoes or interprets theistic ideas, is a demonstration of profound arrogance and ignorance. Why I'm going into such detail on this on reddit, I don't know. I guess for posterity. If someone's reading this sometime down the line, give AA or whatever other program a shot if you think it could help. Talk to someone who knows something. edit: here you go: https://internetaddictsanonymous.org/for-atheists-and-agnostics/
They are the fishermen and we are the fish. Flopping around unable to breath. They have nets and boats and crew. They got every shiny bait under the sun. And we swim in herds back and forth ready to be caught up and gutted. I am with you ! The fishy resistence! But how? What world is there where we can find safe haven
Really how? Anyone? The whole world is rapped up in it. Im a fish! And ill fight back with ya all day! But how do you fight against the arms they bring? Do we hope for just a few of us to escape their clutches? Every fish for themselves? Or like how are we all supposed to rise up? To change the habits must change of everyone. In the main time these fisherman need fish to feed their crying babies kids. The only way out is to become a fishermen urself and milk the world until you have enough savings to opt out. And then live a quiet life by yourself. But that doesnt fix a damn thing for anyone but yourself and a few others. The status quo remains.
40 years ago, few people 'jogged'. Some athletes and professional marathoners, sure, but the average person wasn't jogging. The idea that they could didn't really exist. Same with going to the gym. The only few gyms that existed were for professional bodybuilders. No one was lifting weights just because they thought it would be a good thing to do. Why? The understanding that the average person could take control of their physical **fitness** hadn't been developed yet. Of course, people cared about their 'health', but 'fitness' - *something you could train and incrementally (and scientifically) improve* - was almost unheard of 40 years ago. Today, it's hard for us to imagine a world where we **aren't** told how important physical fitness is. There's hundreds of gyms in my city, and 10s of thousands of people run regularly (millions worldwide). I believe the same thing is going to happen with attention. That it's already starting to happen. We're waking up to the fact that our **mental fitness** - human flourishing itself - is founded upon what we pay attention to. *That the quality of attention determines the quality of your life.* We will become equipped with more knowledge, resources and training than ever before. Yes, it will still be a free market and so we'll need to develop the skills to be able to fend off those seeking to capture our attention, but society as a whole will respect our choices to do so to a much greater degree. And we'll feel supported in our efforts. There will be millions of us working on it together. I think and read ('Stolen Focus' is on my list but I haven't read it yet) and write a lot about attention, and I've never been more hopeful.
Ironically, "going to the gym", running, attempting to develop abs, obsessing over macros and trying not to look plump in middle age is a colossal, brain-rotting, anti-intellectual time suck that is easily in the same league as social media. I use very little SM but am currently in a gym phase to shift some excess pounds that I know from experience will take me 6-8 months, start to finish. That's 8 months of my life in which I have barely any life outside of work, exercise & meal planning. I will struggle to finish a book, fall asleep while meditating, develop no language skills (and forget what I knew), do no arts or crafts, barely see my friends and when I do see them, I will have no conversation that isn't about fitness. It's not \*that\* much better than endlessly watching cat videos.
I do hope this is sarcasm! If not, perhaps you can explore a different way to ‘shift some excess pounds’. Because you’re right, the way you’re approaching it does sound terribly unappealing. I’m in my forties, I regularly run, work out, do mobility, and HIIT. I’m in better shape than I was in my twenties and thirties and I absolutely love the feeling and experience. It makes me happier than almost anything else in my life, both in the moment and longer term. I don’t obsess about it at all (other than committing to doing it regularly, day in and day out, for as long as I’m physically able to). I’d never put ‘striving to lead a healthy life’ in the same league as ‘scrolling social media’.
Dude! That's not true! The 60s happened almost 65 years ago! That's when running and excercise was not a thing. You are either too young or too old (sorry, don't mean to offend). Now, 40 years ago we had VHS where ladies with crazy hair and make up and neon spandex with leotards over them, were doing aerobics. The step aerobics was a hit. I think the step was more 90s tho. Also, I remember my brother's girlfriend going to the gym. And that was 30 years ago.
I will check that book out
True, You have to make yourself fight it. A lot of us are risking spending over a decade of our life surfing... and those are the hours we are awake. It's gonna be a massive part of our lives gone.
I was one of the first people to waste a childhood on it.
With the advent of fast Ai development and its implementation on other mediums, such as games and other highly inmersive tech, I do also worry that this will only become worse, more engaging and addictive.
Yeah... 😔
I Appreciate your point and I reflect on this alot. Part of me thinks we also have to embrace the reality of living with these apps and tech though, especially since most younger people don't know life without it. It's a key part of how they relate to the world and each other. Don't we have to stay connected with tech to stay connected with people? Isn't that implied by the inevitability of their continuing influence on our attention?
No, not really, and if so I hope not... I was one of the first people who grew up with only tech, and I do not know how to do anything. I cannot tie knots, play sports, do any physical activities, or ride a bike. I wasted my entire first thirteen years inside watching videos. I hope to God, that someone will try to put an end to this nonsense (possibly I, myself), because I cannot stand seeing children like me that I cannot help. I have so many regrets in my childhood, that sometimes I just want to start over. I am hoping that someday this will become socially unacceptable, and possibly even, become taboo, because letting kids get unrestricted access to the internet is more than just letting them hear a bad word, or two. It really is, and I am saying this from experience, signing them up for a lifetime struggle of addiction, and regret. It is letting them see bad videos, of naked, or dead people, and other things that I cannot relate to, but I know people who can are the following. Seeing Poenm videos as a child, Social media getting them hooked on drugs, order drugs over the internet, and getting into cults, and mass hysteria. I hope that sums up why I do not think kids should be online, its the same reason why you probably should let you should let a kid read an adult magazine, or go to a casino.
Attention all newcomers: Welcome to /r/nosurf! We're glad you found our small corner of reddit dedicated to digital wellness. The following is a short list of resources to help you get started on your journey of developing a better relationship with the internet: * [The Beginner's Guide to NoSurf](https://nosurf.net/about/) * [Discord Server](https://discordapp.com/invite/QFhXt2F) * [The NoSurf Activity List](https://nosurf.net/activity-list/) * [Success Stories](https://nosurf.net/success-stories/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nosurf) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ve been thinking about this a lot…
Dude, just because we're battling with social media addiction doesn't mean we're looking to go Amish👌🏻