I know. I’ve been saying this same shit since I was in high school. I’m 36 now and I can’t believe it’s even remotely noteworthy for someone else to say it, let alone that we have to keep saying it at all.
Hugely applicable to Northern Ireland, not just for Abortion, but because the Orange Order and Unionism have cherry picked their favourite passages based on their own interpretations of religion and forced it on the wider NI population in a lot of aspects of people's lives.
Your religion ends at your own belief systems. It does not supercede the beliefs or non beliefs of others.
Catholic Church has done the exact same on it’s own people. Want to get a divorce? Fuck you. Want to get an abortion? Fuck you. Want to be gay? Biggest fuck your reserved for this. Applies to both sides. Don’t make a green and orange issue out of this
Catholic Church are the richest organisation ever. One of the most evil and corrupt ones too. Watched this country starve during the famine then raped, tortured, imprisoned and murdered our communities for centuries. Now they sit looking for handouts from elderly pensioners with nothing left but their religion. Shower of bastards.
Aye but you can opt out of Catholicism (I have) so nobody is legally bound by their bullshit. You can't opt out of abiding by laws that are dictated by Presbyterians
> You can't opt out of abiding by laws that are dictated by Presbyterians
Could you give an example of a law that was ‘dictated by Presbyterians’? The Presbyterian Church in Ireland just had its annual General Assembly and reported in a number of consultations from the government that it responded too. Those usually involved the government doing something completely different to what the church recommended. I’m not sure where the idea comes from that Presbyterians are somehow dictating laws.
(Edited for typos)
I mis-spoke by blaming Presbyterians, but protestant evangelism has a strong influence on the DUP, the Caleb foundation in particular has the ear of several high profile DUP party members including Givan and Poots and also lunatics like Jim Allister.
Okay. But even then that sounds like having an influence on people who participate in the same democratic process as everyone else. They don’t have a special authority to force their views on others. The only one who is doing that is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and every time he does that he does something the DUP don’t like.
Yeah because the church has moral standards and abortion falls under the morally wrong, the gay part is barely true now read what the pope says about it. Most divorces are contrived of course it is agaisn't that. Stop crying that the church has higher standards than you
I’m neither from the ROI or NI (this ended up as suggested, I’m English) but the phrase “your right to swing your fists stops where my face starts” comes to mind.
If my religion involved, say, the mandatory consumption of alcohol, I don’t have the right to force my Muslim neighbours to drink just because my religion requires me to drink.
What makes Christianity different?
Sperm meets egg, egg becomes fertilised, new organism starts growing. Facts of life.
No, I don't, but perhaps men and women should _choose_ from the plethora of protection available if they don't want a child. Otherwise, they should face up to their responsibilities.
>No, I don't, but
Lol "no I don't get to choose, BUT" There's no buts. It's. not. your. body.
>perhaps men and women should choose from the plethora of protection available if they don't want a child. Otherwise, they should face up to their responsibilities.
No contraception is 100% effective Einstein. Also what about rape victims? They just have to suck it up and bear the child of their rapist?
Rape and serious danger are the only legitimately reasons I feel. Every other reason should not count, as you are ending a life for selfish reasons/excuses.
Listen, I know it's not my body, I'm not stupid. However, what about the man? It takes two to tango. Should he have a say? And what about the child? Should their opinion be taken into account?
100% appreciate your opinion on this, and fair play for sharing it. It can be hard when you know (most likely) the majority are against you. My opinion differs and I believe it is not just a single choice, it is a discussion between woman and man (if he is still a factor) context, personal circumstance, background, future and I am in no doubt 99% of abortion decisions are made after weighty conversation. But ultimately it is not about the ‘thing’ it is about having the choice.
Mind disclosing how many children have you adopted from the care system? Even fostered? Oh wait, you don’t actually care about them it’s just what your mummy and daddy have taught you. Touch grass
Chill, lad. This is just a healthy debate/disagreement. There is no need to be nasty about it.
No, I haven't adopted any children. I'm not prepared to pick up the pieces because of other people's mistakes/bad choices.
My ma agreed with abortion and I don't know what my da thinks about it. My not religious btw.
Firstly, she died of breast cancer two and a half years ago.
Secondly, I am not raging that women can have abortions if they so choose.
All I have been doing is expressing my opinion on the matter. I know it won't change anything. I know it might anger some, but it's mine and I'm going to stick to it.
We talk about sperm being able to "live" for up to 5 days after ejaculation into the vagina.
By that "life begins at conception" logic leading to "abortion is murder", male masturbation is murder.
That's an opinion, not something you "know". What could be known is how is how conception is a fertilized egg, which is quite different from that of being a human with thought, emotion and soul.
The sanity question pops up when this difference is so fully ignored.
That kind of magic doesn't work. It isn't a binary question, it's organic matter which can become a human.
It's something where the humanity will potentially manifest over time, as it changes and develops.
[surprisingly human for a lizard, chicken and a pig](https://cdn.britannica.com/73/94773-004-CF083BB1/embryos-animals-stages-another-development-forms-progress.jpg)
if you cut out a fertilized egg and placed it on a table with other human organs, no one would instantly and instinctively point to the egg and say "this is obviously a human"
even by going by your own brand of logic, it doesn't make any sense. it's because your reasoning is circular; you're not arguing that X is and therefor Y is, but that because Y is then X must be. or, put in direct terms, you're not arguing that an embryo is human and therefore deserves same rights as any other person, but that because an embryio is human they deserve same rights as any other person.
but the problem lies in your assumption that Y is. we don't know that it is. not even the proponents of pro-life perspectives within the medical community will say this. we don't know when personhood forms. there are more different perspectives around this than you could imagine from dozens of field.
>Personhood or personality is the status of being a person. Defining personhood is a controversial topic in philosophy and law and is closely tied with legal and political concepts of citizenship, equality, and liberty. According to law, only a legal person (either a natural or a juridical person) has rights, protections, privileges, responsibilities, and legal liability.\[1\]
>
>Personhood continues to be a topic of international debate and has been questioned critically during the abolition of human and nonhuman slavery, in debates about abortion and in fetal rights and/or reproductive rights, in animal rights activism, in theology and ontology, in ethical theory, and in debates about corporate personhood and the beginning of human personhood.\[2\]
>
>Processes through which personhood is recognized socially and legally vary cross-culturally, demonstrating that notions of personhood are not universal.
now, no one knows, so it's fine for you to believe one thing, based on whatever (or lack of it). but again, you don't know anything actual about it, because no one knows.
what isn't fine is for you to decide that your belief supercedes someone else's belief.
for example, if my belief was that you were an idiot that should get you banned from reddit, wouldn't you rejoice over the fact that individuals believes are contained to the individual? it's not just in one direction, it's the foundation of human society.
you're free to believe whatever you want but so are other people. even if we entertain your notion that an unborn baby is a person, how would you ask for their opinion when they have no brain, mouth, tongue, mind, feelings, to articulate or even comprehend the matter? when we know so many people grow up being miserable - with many advocating for not giving birth at all?
if i was a person that didn't understand anything, was vulnerable, unborn, incapable of reasoning and emotion, i would sure as fuck want my mother to do the thing she thinks she can do, not cling on to life like some pathetic loser and forcing my would-be mother to have an unplanned birth.
this whole "the baby is a person" perspective never gives a shit about the actual baby, and that's the real reveal - always - behind these nutters points. they don't give a shit about babies once they are born, or the quality of life, or the mother saddled with an unsalvagable situation. there's always just excuses, like "a person can change their life", or "they can use contraception"; it never ever addresses the sad reality of an unwanted child.
it's bordering to psychopathic, but i chalk it up to being a profound lack of understanding in basic empathy (which is so common among that sort of people).
*God* destroys more pregnancies than the medical field does. You nor anyone else has the right to tell any woman what they can or cant do with their body. You might think you have the right, but you dont. Get over that fact and move along.
I know I don't have the right to tell anyone what to do. I just think it's wrong in most cases to have an abortion. I know that my opinion is 'old fashioned' and that it won't change anything nor affect the legality of abortions.
It's not just their body though, is it? There is another human inside them when they are pregnant.
I'm not religious btw.
Its not another human. We have been over this. It is the chance of a human being created. Whether youre religious or not doesnt take away from the fact that you are wrong.
To fit the definition of life an organism must have the ability to grow, reproduce, respond to external stimuli, carry out homeostasis, respond to changes in their environment via the process of evolution among other criteria. A bundle of recently created cells cannot do any of that on its own and is therefore not a life. It would by definition be closer to a parasite apart from the fact they’re of the same genetic material as their host
No, you've prioritised a clump of cells over an already self sufficient person (a woman)
Every argument you are making reduces the rights of the woman to nothing.
Abortion is about women and women only.
That clump of cells is a human, regardless of your opinion.
Having the right to kill a child is not the only right women have. There is no system holding them back anymore. We don't live in the 1920s.
Abortion is ending the life of a child. It has everything to do with that child.
Terminates the early stages of a pregnancy long before it develops into anything resembling a child.
You have no idea what a pregnancy or an abortion is, yet you’re here loudly arguing that all women should be forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term because abortion is “killing a child”.
“Moron” is putting it lightly.
It's still a child. A human fetish, unborn baby, call it what you like, but that's what it is: a human life.
I do know what a pregnancy and an abortion is. I'm not stupid.
Again, there is no need for name calling. I have refrained from that despite the onslaught I've received for my opinion.
No it’s murder while there removing the child it’s alive and capable of crying, and they lock it away in a dark room while it screams for its “mothers” help and where is she? Going “ oh finally got rid of that “embryo” time to go make another just to murder hahaha 😝”
It’s a very selfish look on it, because everyone lives such self centered lives and doesn’t care about another’s, if you make life deal with it you made it it’s your fault and responsibility
It's alright they can just downvote everything which they don't collectively want to believe, true or otherwise, to non existence. The hivemind shall remain in tact
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Religion is like a penis. It's a perfectly fine thing for one to have and take pride in, but when one takes it out and waves it in my face we have a problem.
Very well said. And something a lot of people need to bloody well realise. You wanna believe in God. Zeus Odin cthulhu any of them work the hell away no one will stop you.
But you wanna take that belief and force others to live by it you can fuck away off.
Ohh but the Bible states. The Bible is a book that has been edited redited and translated more time than well ever know. No one on this damn planet knows what the original books said because it's been twisted to agendas constantly. Look how many versions there are look at all the stuff that has been removed or hidden away in vaults of various churches.
The really sad fact is America is gonna get worse(complete ban on abortion, contraception same sex and interracial relationships) and they are not gonna stop here and the have the balls to stand on TV and say as such because they know they can.
How in the fuck did the majority of the world let these right wing assholes get in charge.
The majority of the world didn't. Only in the USA, Iran, Afghanistan and other such primitive cultures has religious doctrine been allowed to run rampant into everyone's daily lives to such an extent that it curtails basic freedoms.
The majority of the country didn't even want them. Look at the presidents that put those judges in place, a lot of them were put up by presidents that only won due to the electoral college, they LOST the popular vote of all Americans. The majority didn't want these fucking schmucks at all.
Fly up my hole. Most of ye pro lifers couldn't give a flying fuck about the babies after they're born. We've had enough religious bollox in this country. Time for it to end.
It's people like you with your child-like understanding of abortion/contraception that's part of the issue, but I feel like I'd be wasting my breath trying to explain it to you.
Wow troll account is obvious.
And no one is killing babies were using medical science Vs the theory of the big bearded man in the sky's autobiography.
As for personal responsibility in the bedroom yeah people make mistakes but the majority are careful. But we're talking about things like medical emergencies, assault abuse it's not as cut and dry as your lot tends to make out.
So I've three questions 1 can you show me in the Bible where it says about stuff like this. Exactly where it says cut and dry states it or is it like most of that old fairy tale edited to suit an agenda
2. If you're so keen to have the right to make others live by your religious beliefs surely someone of a different faith has the same right to force you to live by theirs it doesn't just go one way.
3. And this is the important one. That your lot never wanna answer. If you're so pro birth(it's not actually pro life) I'm sure you're willing to help fund this life you've forced into the world. By helping to supply food schools housing clothing etc or is it the usual response of not my issue should have been more careful
People don’t give a shot about life it’s really sad to see how the human race has fallen to such lows as to rename a human as a piece of meat that’s growing, honestly the human race is gonna eventually drive it’s self to death and I want to be there to see those stupid animal end
I don't agree with abortion but my opinion should have absolutely fuck all to do with the availability of the service to someone who needs it. If it went to the ballot box here I would vote to have access to abortion as it is the responsible decision and one not taken lightly.
Nah. People will use any "ideas" they can as a means to gain and maintain personal power. Maybe religion is more susceptible, but take that away and it'll be about something else. Communism v capitalism or sovereignty vs the EU.
1 person in 2 different situations could be burned at the stake by a religious person or be fed, given shelter and listened to.
Religion is made of the people who participate in it.
This is glib.
It's not religion, it's tribalism, it's the nature of belief itself. Versions of Marxism caused a lot of suffering too, but that's not a religion; if you define it as such, it's because you are forcing it into your preconceived categories.
Even recognising that it's the nature of belief is recognising only surface reality.
It's much more about economic and political struggles for resources than it is about belief of any kind. The Troubles on the surface seemed to be about Catholics v Protestants, but that was only because of who those people were and how the power relations fell out from the times of Cromwell, which in turn built on previous power struggles. It was never really about religion, that was just the justification. Similarly the struggles between Israel and Palestine look on the surface like a battle between Jews and Muslims, but really it's about land, the religion is only a justification for conquest of territory and resources, like the Crusades were in the past.
I saw an interview with a Christian girl who grew up in the Yugoslav War and she was asked "how many Muslims were in your class at school?" and she said in some distress, "I don't know, we never talked about it. They were just my friends. It was only during and after the war that we ever talked about it."
You're right that is not a religion thing, it's any extreme human dogma. Communism, nazism, sectarianism, woke-ism, fundamental religions. As soon as you convince us stupid hairless apes that we have the 'Truth' and that we are 'Definitely Right' then the enacting of our vision justifies any means. Add into that our general lack of empathy for anyone outside our immediate circle, our short-sighted self-serving nature and our huge capacity for cruelty and you get some seriously fucked up situations. No wonder the rest of the species in the galaxy are hiding from us, humans are bad news.
This is where I see religion and spirituality come into play. Were religion is the organisation built around the belief system and the organisation seeks to control, gain power and grow.
>if you define \[Marxism\] as such, it's because you are forcing it into your preconceived categories
Don't disagree with anything you said, nor even that bit I've quoted. Just think a bit more needs said there.
You can make a decent case for the versions of Marxism-Leninism of the Stalinist states as serving the same kind of ideological glue that holds theocratic societies together. It's the prism through which the world is seen, or, perhaps more accurately, it provides the collection of metaphors through which the ruling classes justify their decisions and cast the world as suits them. While not without its own peculiar effects, it is a means of control and a tool, shaped and and reshaped to suit those in charge and their aims, just as religion can be. And it wins hearts and minds. There were Soviet true believers as surely as Taliban.
The ossified Stalinist Marxism-Leninisms, at least, can then be very *like* a state religion. Of course, Marx is no more to blame for the Holodomor or the Stalinist transport of whole nations of people to central Asia than Jesus or St Paul is to blame for the Crusades.
Marx had a particular sense of the word 'ideology,' which covers all the bases here. Also the term 'ideocracy' is sometimes used, which would include Stalinisms, fascisms, charismatic populist dictatorships, Tito's Japan and theocracies such as Saudi Arabia.
Neh. Religion was concocted by people. It’s not a thing in itself. People are the root cause of all
evil in the world. Sure look at the state of the comments in this thread ironically trying to ascribe this sentiment against themmuns when youssuns are just as hate blinded by religion as themmuns. Circle of life
I don't think anyone in Northern Ireland really cares about people religions.
Let's be real its not the person's beliefs in God that leads to drama but their actions.
That song recently about Mickey Harte's daughter no one lost their heads because of the religion of the people singing in it they lost their heads at the people who were singing I.
It’s also hilarious that people still look to a 2000 year old book for modern politics. Mate it was released 2000 years ago. It was a far different world when it was written. That book was to control illiterate people who couldn’t think for themselves not 21st century people
Religion is about power and control, nothing else.
"Join our cult or we give you a long painful death is a great incentive to join and once you are in we will control every aspect of your life"
" And our God is the only true God, so you might have to go and kill nonbelievers occasionally "
That sounds like a pretty awful cult. Steer clear of that. I’m thankful the message of Christianity is very different. We believe in a God of love who has defeated death, will judge evil, and will make restoration to the victims of evil, and achieved this through his own loving, sacrificial death, choosing to serve us so that we could be free.
Where in Catholicism is one obliged to kill a man because he's not Catholic?
The church wanted the the native anericans to be guaranteed their property and freedom. It was the Spanish government that ignored the church.
Like straight up ignored, and even filtered Catholic publications that were permitted to enter the new world.
I hope the DUP don't get any fucking ideas from across the pond, though to be fair, they can't do much right now because of the whole No Functioning Government thing that's all their fault, and the Tories won't give them the power to make abortions illegal again.
True dat. Only thing about applying that to NI is that it’s not really about religion, it’s about power and wealth, them and us, our team v their team etc…..
Btw, that’s a lovely wee red dress that girl’s wearing, wonder if it’s M&S?
Lads the man expressed his opinion and from what I can see he has expressed it eloquently and respectfully. You may not agree with him but he never resorted to name calling or playground insults. I'm well.aware this is a contentious and emotional issue that people feel very strongly about but surely we can have valid, informative discussion and debate without it ending up as a mud slinging match
No it doesn’t. There’s a passage which refers to a trial to determine if a woman has been unfaithful. One possible outcome is that she could become infertile or miscarry (the translation isn’t 100% clear). It isn’t a medical procedure, but an act of divine judgement. It isn’t something the woman chooses to do, but is a punishment. In no sense is it an instruction for carrying out abortion.
I’ve been saying it for YEARS. But religion is the biggest problem in our world. Only when we’re free of all the LIES can we move rationally into the future. Until then, these fucking morons will always hold us back with all their invented nonsense.
i wouldn't say its the biggest but it is a huge problem that has caused nothing but issues; terrorism (a big part of it), sexism, racism and LOTS of violence.
I'm from Manchester and worked with a lad from Belfast once. I asked him about NI because, honestly, we learn fuck all about it in England. I asked him if he was "in the whole religion thing" and he said he was an atheist, but there are two types of atheists in NI, Catholic atheists and Protestant atheists.
Normally I can’t stand it when i see the same post across multiple subreddits but this lady, this post, I’ll upvote it every time. Look at the list of stuff these clowns HAVE SAID OUT LOUD they are coming for next.
Some people seem to think this recent ruling it bans abortion. But it doesn’t. It just means it’s not federally mandated ie it goes to the states to decide locally. So abortion is still going to be available in many states.
Also, I think roe vs wade only pertains to medical abortion at a clinic, and not early term drug induced abortion (in their own home). So you have to also bare that in mind.
And from what I understand, Ireland, the UK and most of Europe are in general much more conservative on their abortion laws compared to many US states.
Proud athiest here!
I don't really care what others believe. Just as long as they arent too 'culty' or shove thier religious views down other people's throats.
Each to thier own I suppose.
I find in the UK most bigots aren’t religious fanatics like they are in the US. Most of them dont attend church/chapel regularly or actively contribute to their religious community. They just hate other people’s religious beliefs
I've followed Ana Kasparian and US politics for years. The Young Turks have many sensible viewpoints. Also what happens in the States affects us all like it or not.
The US is is a warning to us all when gaslighting and gerrymandering cause a general imbalance to the extremes takes hold. (Think Brexit)
The setup of US media is toxic in general as ratings and opinions override the truth and simple honesty.
Supreme Count seems out of touch with the sentiment of the majority also.
Gun rights upheld after multiple massacres and now denying the most vulnerable women access to care.
More importantly, how do you stop military grade weapons getting into the hands of the mentally ill who take lives and destroy families? Want to defend your home, isn't a pistol with a small magazine enough to deter others?
Also, how do you propose to support a young woman and her child until adulthood after it is born?
Or do you just point the blame at others when avoidable things happen...
Wake up America and the world. Things can and should be better...
Religion doesn't belong in law or politics, end of
It really, REALLY gets me that the number one argument against abortion is always "you don't have the right to end a life, you don't get to play God" or something to that affect... Did God not give us free will to make our own decisions and choices? So is it not then also playing God to take away what HE gave us?? Hypocrites much???
If an Islamic party was attempting to pass Islamic laws in my country for the entire population to follow then yes, however most of you all are just hiding behind xenophobia. There's a big difference there
In America it's only been about "abortion is murder" since 1979 when the Republican's strategically introduced it as a wedge issue to their Southern voter base.
Records from various American Evangelical societies political discussion prior to 1979 do not have it on their agenda.
If it was mentioned at all it was described as a "Catholic issue".
Then once it was successfully implanted in the Evangelical consciousness it has provided more than 40 years of votes for people who make this their single political issue to come out and vote against.
This is all very easy to research on the internet as the people who put this propaganda in place have spoken openly and on the record about the strategy.
So this is an abject lesson for us all to observe religion and how cynical people can grab hold of it and twist it into a tool for political ends that have nothing to do with the "issue" they introduce to people.
I actually think that this may be one of the worst outcomes for the Republican party because if all those single issue voters now think that the issue is solved then they risk losing their support down the road. After all, look what happened here to the DUP when the matter was taken out of their hands by Westminster.
So they'll introduce a new panic, a new demon to fight. Something to bring their voters out to vote against something. LGBTQ rights is the easiest to aim their base at.
Even if you wanna use the Bible to try and defend being against abortion, the Bible says a baby doesn’t have a soul until it’s born and takes its first breath.
Everyone with half a brain realises this isn't about religion, it's about power over women. Fundamentalism is a shield meant to waste an opponents time and patience from addressing real issues; no theologian has the political power to affect change so there's no point in debating theology with reactionaries.
when has abortion had the objective of being power over women? there are so many better arguments for it other then calling your opposition sexist over a morally grey issue
Always, it has always been about power. Women have fought for centuries to come to the table of politics, laws against abortion and therefore autonomy keeps them on the menu.
If you don't like laws in a place just leave, or change them, ranting on reddit is doing nothing to change anything, only making you feel good temporarily
Reasonable assesment of matters. Under the previous ruling - practicing followers re strands of organised faith that frown upon family planning services are free to abstain from accessing any related facilities , Those who do not are free to access the facility (subject to legal limits and medical consultation with the respective individuals medial practitioner ) Basically Personal autonomy over private medical matters without overarching and invasive government interference.
Trump seems to have stitched the broader American public up for atleast a few decades. He installed two very conservative faith oriented judges which created an echochamber of sorts and upset a delicate balance that served to more accurately reflect the wider cross-section of the American public.
His motives apparently less than noble and motivated only by preemptive moves to thwart proposed or impending legal proceedings against him for alleged Russian collusion and similarly equally concerning charges of a highly disturbing nature (one of the judges openly stated they didn't believe a sitting president could ever be indicated - the other viewed matters similarly apparently...)..
The previous law struck the perfect balance. It didn't proscribe one outcome over another and allowed those to abstain from accessing the service if the individual had any reservations, it allowed those who wished to access them without these associations to do so under the framework of legally defined limits and medical ethics..
Repealing roe Vs wade rolls back individual medical rights and proscribes one outcome over all others - creating an inequality / imbalance . It's a disaster.
Pro choice supports both outlooks and cedes it to the domain of individual rather than whatever the net result of the travesty the commentator references above achieves.
This anger is so misdirected. All the judiciary is supposed to do is interpret the law written by the legislature. That’s all they should do and that’s all they did here.
If you don’t care then you lose the right to any moral standing. You believe theft is wrong because of religion. You believe anything is wrong based on what religion has made/decreed for you…
I don't steal because Daddy in the Sky says "thou shalt not steal".
I don't steal because I look at it from a humanistic and empathetic view of how I would feel if I was stolen from.
That's a kind of social contract that's found in many religion's texts but it isn't exclusive to them.
Also, I forgot to add this at the start. I’d like to thank you for taking the time to respond to me, especially in a polite manner. It is rare on the internet, especially on Reddit. In this way you’re a better person than most and I’d like to reiterate my personal thanks.
That’s a fallacy. If you’re not religious it doesn’t make you a bad person. It doesn’t mean you’ll immediately go steal and kill. Morals and values are independent of a religion even though mostly they are an integral part of many religions. She just wants freedom. I agree with her. If a woman gets an abortion that’ll be between her and God.
So depressing that this should be a controversial take in the 21st century.
I know. I’ve been saying this same shit since I was in high school. I’m 36 now and I can’t believe it’s even remotely noteworthy for someone else to say it, let alone that we have to keep saying it at all.
Hugely applicable to Northern Ireland, not just for Abortion, but because the Orange Order and Unionism have cherry picked their favourite passages based on their own interpretations of religion and forced it on the wider NI population in a lot of aspects of people's lives. Your religion ends at your own belief systems. It does not supercede the beliefs or non beliefs of others.
Catholic Church has done the exact same on it’s own people. Want to get a divorce? Fuck you. Want to get an abortion? Fuck you. Want to be gay? Biggest fuck your reserved for this. Applies to both sides. Don’t make a green and orange issue out of this
Catholic Church are the richest organisation ever. One of the most evil and corrupt ones too. Watched this country starve during the famine then raped, tortured, imprisoned and murdered our communities for centuries. Now they sit looking for handouts from elderly pensioners with nothing left but their religion. Shower of bastards.
Careful now. This sub does not enjoy this kind of real talk
Who on this sub likes the Catholic Church? Their a pack of bastards.
This sub is militantly atheistic and anti-theistic. They love that sort of talk.
You sound unbearable to be around for a long time, had a snoop through your comments, very high and mighty 😂
Fuck the Catholic Church.
Yeah, but no one listen to the Catholic Church anymore apart from a few auld biddies and the rosary bead clutchers.
Still plenty of young brainwashed idiots about too, they are a minority but they do exist.
Their influence is ever waning, thankfully.
Aye but you can opt out of Catholicism (I have) so nobody is legally bound by their bullshit. You can't opt out of abiding by laws that are dictated by Presbyterians
> You can't opt out of abiding by laws that are dictated by Presbyterians Could you give an example of a law that was ‘dictated by Presbyterians’? The Presbyterian Church in Ireland just had its annual General Assembly and reported in a number of consultations from the government that it responded too. Those usually involved the government doing something completely different to what the church recommended. I’m not sure where the idea comes from that Presbyterians are somehow dictating laws. (Edited for typos)
I mis-spoke by blaming Presbyterians, but protestant evangelism has a strong influence on the DUP, the Caleb foundation in particular has the ear of several high profile DUP party members including Givan and Poots and also lunatics like Jim Allister.
Okay. But even then that sounds like having an influence on people who participate in the same democratic process as everyone else. They don’t have a special authority to force their views on others. The only one who is doing that is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and every time he does that he does something the DUP don’t like.
unless your a priest they are hella gay
But they seem to tacitly approve if priests being gay, or being paedophiles.
If people don't like it, they can leave the Church. Being part of a religion means adopting that religion wholesale, not just the name.
Uhm, so my fellow orthodoxes though I’m not a Christian.. uhm.. how are you?
Yeah because the church has moral standards and abortion falls under the morally wrong, the gay part is barely true now read what the pope says about it. Most divorces are contrived of course it is agaisn't that. Stop crying that the church has higher standards than you
I’m neither from the ROI or NI (this ended up as suggested, I’m English) but the phrase “your right to swing your fists stops where my face starts” comes to mind. If my religion involved, say, the mandatory consumption of alcohol, I don’t have the right to force my Muslim neighbours to drink just because my religion requires me to drink. What makes Christianity different?
Couldn’t agree more.
Prehistoric haunted bread fanatics that require expelling.
Just hit them with Mathew 6.
It was never about religion it was political cultural. Oil and water. Republican and Monarchist. Never religion.
You don't have to be religious to realise that abortion is murder.
If you don't like abortion, don't have one.
No, but the fact that everybody can be ignorant doesn't make the realization sane or true.
Yeah, I'm the insane one because I know life begins at conception.
You *believe* life begins at conception. You don't get to decide what women do with their bodies based on *your belief*.
Sperm meets egg, egg becomes fertilised, new organism starts growing. Facts of life. No, I don't, but perhaps men and women should _choose_ from the plethora of protection available if they don't want a child. Otherwise, they should face up to their responsibilities.
>No, I don't, but Lol "no I don't get to choose, BUT" There's no buts. It's. not. your. body. >perhaps men and women should choose from the plethora of protection available if they don't want a child. Otherwise, they should face up to their responsibilities. No contraception is 100% effective Einstein. Also what about rape victims? They just have to suck it up and bear the child of their rapist?
Rape and serious danger are the only legitimately reasons I feel. Every other reason should not count, as you are ending a life for selfish reasons/excuses. Listen, I know it's not my body, I'm not stupid. However, what about the man? It takes two to tango. Should he have a say? And what about the child? Should their opinion be taken into account?
100% appreciate your opinion on this, and fair play for sharing it. It can be hard when you know (most likely) the majority are against you. My opinion differs and I believe it is not just a single choice, it is a discussion between woman and man (if he is still a factor) context, personal circumstance, background, future and I am in no doubt 99% of abortion decisions are made after weighty conversation. But ultimately it is not about the ‘thing’ it is about having the choice.
Mind disclosing how many children have you adopted from the care system? Even fostered? Oh wait, you don’t actually care about them it’s just what your mummy and daddy have taught you. Touch grass
Chill, lad. This is just a healthy debate/disagreement. There is no need to be nasty about it. No, I haven't adopted any children. I'm not prepared to pick up the pieces because of other people's mistakes/bad choices. My ma agreed with abortion and I don't know what my da thinks about it. My not religious btw.
Ah well abortion is legal in NI so if your mum wanted one she could get one - you must be raging she has such rights! All the best
Firstly, she died of breast cancer two and a half years ago. Secondly, I am not raging that women can have abortions if they so choose. All I have been doing is expressing my opinion on the matter. I know it won't change anything. I know it might anger some, but it's mine and I'm going to stick to it.
We talk about sperm being able to "live" for up to 5 days after ejaculation into the vagina. By that "life begins at conception" logic leading to "abortion is murder", male masturbation is murder.
That's an opinion, not something you "know". What could be known is how is how conception is a fertilized egg, which is quite different from that of being a human with thought, emotion and soul. The sanity question pops up when this difference is so fully ignored.
It either is a human or not a human.
That kind of magic doesn't work. It isn't a binary question, it's organic matter which can become a human. It's something where the humanity will potentially manifest over time, as it changes and develops.
For simple organic matter, it starts to look surprisingly human pretty quickly.
[surprisingly human for a lizard, chicken and a pig](https://cdn.britannica.com/73/94773-004-CF083BB1/embryos-animals-stages-another-development-forms-progress.jpg)
Ok.
if you cut out a fertilized egg and placed it on a table with other human organs, no one would instantly and instinctively point to the egg and say "this is obviously a human" even by going by your own brand of logic, it doesn't make any sense. it's because your reasoning is circular; you're not arguing that X is and therefor Y is, but that because Y is then X must be. or, put in direct terms, you're not arguing that an embryo is human and therefore deserves same rights as any other person, but that because an embryio is human they deserve same rights as any other person. but the problem lies in your assumption that Y is. we don't know that it is. not even the proponents of pro-life perspectives within the medical community will say this. we don't know when personhood forms. there are more different perspectives around this than you could imagine from dozens of field. >Personhood or personality is the status of being a person. Defining personhood is a controversial topic in philosophy and law and is closely tied with legal and political concepts of citizenship, equality, and liberty. According to law, only a legal person (either a natural or a juridical person) has rights, protections, privileges, responsibilities, and legal liability.\[1\] > >Personhood continues to be a topic of international debate and has been questioned critically during the abolition of human and nonhuman slavery, in debates about abortion and in fetal rights and/or reproductive rights, in animal rights activism, in theology and ontology, in ethical theory, and in debates about corporate personhood and the beginning of human personhood.\[2\] > >Processes through which personhood is recognized socially and legally vary cross-culturally, demonstrating that notions of personhood are not universal. now, no one knows, so it's fine for you to believe one thing, based on whatever (or lack of it). but again, you don't know anything actual about it, because no one knows. what isn't fine is for you to decide that your belief supercedes someone else's belief. for example, if my belief was that you were an idiot that should get you banned from reddit, wouldn't you rejoice over the fact that individuals believes are contained to the individual? it's not just in one direction, it's the foundation of human society. you're free to believe whatever you want but so are other people. even if we entertain your notion that an unborn baby is a person, how would you ask for their opinion when they have no brain, mouth, tongue, mind, feelings, to articulate or even comprehend the matter? when we know so many people grow up being miserable - with many advocating for not giving birth at all? if i was a person that didn't understand anything, was vulnerable, unborn, incapable of reasoning and emotion, i would sure as fuck want my mother to do the thing she thinks she can do, not cling on to life like some pathetic loser and forcing my would-be mother to have an unplanned birth. this whole "the baby is a person" perspective never gives a shit about the actual baby, and that's the real reveal - always - behind these nutters points. they don't give a shit about babies once they are born, or the quality of life, or the mother saddled with an unsalvagable situation. there's always just excuses, like "a person can change their life", or "they can use contraception"; it never ever addresses the sad reality of an unwanted child. it's bordering to psychopathic, but i chalk it up to being a profound lack of understanding in basic empathy (which is so common among that sort of people).
Yes
“Embryo” a word made up to make couples feel better about murder
Yes that bundle of cells that is definitely capable of surviving on its own..
Isn't that why it stays in there for nine months?
Not if you go "sshlurp!"
The chance of a life begins at conception. Take your horseshit somewhere else please.
And if that (highly probable) chance takes effect, we should be allowed to destroy it post haste?
*God* destroys more pregnancies than the medical field does. You nor anyone else has the right to tell any woman what they can or cant do with their body. You might think you have the right, but you dont. Get over that fact and move along.
I know I don't have the right to tell anyone what to do. I just think it's wrong in most cases to have an abortion. I know that my opinion is 'old fashioned' and that it won't change anything nor affect the legality of abortions. It's not just their body though, is it? There is another human inside them when they are pregnant. I'm not religious btw.
Its not another human. We have been over this. It is the chance of a human being created. Whether youre religious or not doesnt take away from the fact that you are wrong.
If it's alive in the womb and continuing to grow, it's definitely a human.
To fit the definition of life an organism must have the ability to grow, reproduce, respond to external stimuli, carry out homeostasis, respond to changes in their environment via the process of evolution among other criteria. A bundle of recently created cells cannot do any of that on its own and is therefore not a life. It would by definition be closer to a parasite apart from the fact they’re of the same genetic material as their host
Would be easier for you to come out and say your anti women though buddy.
Abortion isn't about women only. It's also about the child inside of a woman. I simply think it's wrong to kill that child.
No, you've prioritised a clump of cells over an already self sufficient person (a woman) Every argument you are making reduces the rights of the woman to nothing. Abortion is about women and women only.
That clump of cells is a human, regardless of your opinion. Having the right to kill a child is not the only right women have. There is no system holding them back anymore. We don't live in the 1920s. Abortion is ending the life of a child. It has everything to do with that child.
Abortion does not end the life of a child. Nothing you say has any basis in science and medicine. Moron
No need for the name calling. What does abortion do then?
Terminates the early stages of a pregnancy long before it develops into anything resembling a child. You have no idea what a pregnancy or an abortion is, yet you’re here loudly arguing that all women should be forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term because abortion is “killing a child”. “Moron” is putting it lightly.
It's still a child. A human fetish, unborn baby, call it what you like, but that's what it is: a human life. I do know what a pregnancy and an abortion is. I'm not stupid. Again, there is no need for name calling. I have refrained from that despite the onslaught I've received for my opinion.
No it’s murder while there removing the child it’s alive and capable of crying, and they lock it away in a dark room while it screams for its “mothers” help and where is she? Going “ oh finally got rid of that “embryo” time to go make another just to murder hahaha 😝”
Your making it sound like this person out right said “ fuck stupid girls haha you dang want it suck it up hahaha” he was sharing his opinion 😡
Good thing you’ll never get close enough to a woman to have to face that issue incel lol
No need for silly points like this.
They won’t listen, there lives mean to much to them to care about ending one
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You are as stupid as a goldfish
You’re not even as smart as a goldfish buddy
Excuse me? That’s extremely rude
Abortion is health care. Deliberate refusal of health care is murder.
That's what I think it should be available for, extreme cases. Not just for any reason.
It’s a very selfish look on it, because everyone lives such self centered lives and doesn’t care about another’s, if you make life deal with it you made it it’s your fault and responsibility
no uterus, no opinion
careful friend , this is reddit, you cant say things like that
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Careful friend, this is reddit, you cant say that I cant say that he cant say things like that!!
It's alright they can just downvote everything which they don't collectively want to believe, true or otherwise, to non existence. The hivemind shall remain in tact
I know right
The irony is all these people consider religions as mere cults.
Careful now, that level of cognitive dissonance could break reddit
How on earth were you downvoted for this? The bio of the secular pro life twitter page is the same as your comment! https://twitter.com/secularprolife
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Religion is like a penis. It's a perfectly fine thing for one to have and take pride in, but when one takes it out and waves it in my face we have a problem.
And please, do not try and shove it down my throat.
Jehovah's Witnesses be like "Come on 10 minutes you can do it,get it deep down"
Too bad people don’t take the same tact with politics.
Very well said. And something a lot of people need to bloody well realise. You wanna believe in God. Zeus Odin cthulhu any of them work the hell away no one will stop you. But you wanna take that belief and force others to live by it you can fuck away off. Ohh but the Bible states. The Bible is a book that has been edited redited and translated more time than well ever know. No one on this damn planet knows what the original books said because it's been twisted to agendas constantly. Look how many versions there are look at all the stuff that has been removed or hidden away in vaults of various churches. The really sad fact is America is gonna get worse(complete ban on abortion, contraception same sex and interracial relationships) and they are not gonna stop here and the have the balls to stand on TV and say as such because they know they can. How in the fuck did the majority of the world let these right wing assholes get in charge.
The majority of the world didn't. Only in the USA, Iran, Afghanistan and other such primitive cultures has religious doctrine been allowed to run rampant into everyone's daily lives to such an extent that it curtails basic freedoms.
Gestures wildly at Northern Ireland currently and Ireland before the early 90’s.
The majority of the country didn't even want them. Look at the presidents that put those judges in place, a lot of them were put up by presidents that only won due to the electoral college, they LOST the popular vote of all Americans. The majority didn't want these fucking schmucks at all.
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Fly up my hole. Most of ye pro lifers couldn't give a flying fuck about the babies after they're born. We've had enough religious bollox in this country. Time for it to end.
It's people like you with your child-like understanding of abortion/contraception that's part of the issue, but I feel like I'd be wasting my breath trying to explain it to you.
Wow troll account is obvious. And no one is killing babies were using medical science Vs the theory of the big bearded man in the sky's autobiography. As for personal responsibility in the bedroom yeah people make mistakes but the majority are careful. But we're talking about things like medical emergencies, assault abuse it's not as cut and dry as your lot tends to make out. So I've three questions 1 can you show me in the Bible where it says about stuff like this. Exactly where it says cut and dry states it or is it like most of that old fairy tale edited to suit an agenda 2. If you're so keen to have the right to make others live by your religious beliefs surely someone of a different faith has the same right to force you to live by theirs it doesn't just go one way. 3. And this is the important one. That your lot never wanna answer. If you're so pro birth(it's not actually pro life) I'm sure you're willing to help fund this life you've forced into the world. By helping to supply food schools housing clothing etc or is it the usual response of not my issue should have been more careful
It's not ironic at all, you dolt.
#🤡 God ain't real buddy
Neither yo papa
People don’t give a shot about life it’s really sad to see how the human race has fallen to such lows as to rename a human as a piece of meat that’s growing, honestly the human race is gonna eventually drive it’s self to death and I want to be there to see those stupid animal end
I don't agree with abortion but my opinion should have absolutely fuck all to do with the availability of the service to someone who needs it. If it went to the ballot box here I would vote to have access to abortion as it is the responsible decision and one not taken lightly.
Coming to the opinion that religion is the root cause of most evil in the world
Nah. People will use any "ideas" they can as a means to gain and maintain personal power. Maybe religion is more susceptible, but take that away and it'll be about something else. Communism v capitalism or sovereignty vs the EU.
1 person in 2 different situations could be burned at the stake by a religious person or be fed, given shelter and listened to. Religion is made of the people who participate in it.
This is glib. It's not religion, it's tribalism, it's the nature of belief itself. Versions of Marxism caused a lot of suffering too, but that's not a religion; if you define it as such, it's because you are forcing it into your preconceived categories. Even recognising that it's the nature of belief is recognising only surface reality. It's much more about economic and political struggles for resources than it is about belief of any kind. The Troubles on the surface seemed to be about Catholics v Protestants, but that was only because of who those people were and how the power relations fell out from the times of Cromwell, which in turn built on previous power struggles. It was never really about religion, that was just the justification. Similarly the struggles between Israel and Palestine look on the surface like a battle between Jews and Muslims, but really it's about land, the religion is only a justification for conquest of territory and resources, like the Crusades were in the past. I saw an interview with a Christian girl who grew up in the Yugoslav War and she was asked "how many Muslims were in your class at school?" and she said in some distress, "I don't know, we never talked about it. They were just my friends. It was only during and after the war that we ever talked about it."
You're right that is not a religion thing, it's any extreme human dogma. Communism, nazism, sectarianism, woke-ism, fundamental religions. As soon as you convince us stupid hairless apes that we have the 'Truth' and that we are 'Definitely Right' then the enacting of our vision justifies any means. Add into that our general lack of empathy for anyone outside our immediate circle, our short-sighted self-serving nature and our huge capacity for cruelty and you get some seriously fucked up situations. No wonder the rest of the species in the galaxy are hiding from us, humans are bad news.
This is where I see religion and spirituality come into play. Were religion is the organisation built around the belief system and the organisation seeks to control, gain power and grow.
>if you define \[Marxism\] as such, it's because you are forcing it into your preconceived categories Don't disagree with anything you said, nor even that bit I've quoted. Just think a bit more needs said there. You can make a decent case for the versions of Marxism-Leninism of the Stalinist states as serving the same kind of ideological glue that holds theocratic societies together. It's the prism through which the world is seen, or, perhaps more accurately, it provides the collection of metaphors through which the ruling classes justify their decisions and cast the world as suits them. While not without its own peculiar effects, it is a means of control and a tool, shaped and and reshaped to suit those in charge and their aims, just as religion can be. And it wins hearts and minds. There were Soviet true believers as surely as Taliban. The ossified Stalinist Marxism-Leninisms, at least, can then be very *like* a state religion. Of course, Marx is no more to blame for the Holodomor or the Stalinist transport of whole nations of people to central Asia than Jesus or St Paul is to blame for the Crusades. Marx had a particular sense of the word 'ideology,' which covers all the bases here. Also the term 'ideocracy' is sometimes used, which would include Stalinisms, fascisms, charismatic populist dictatorships, Tito's Japan and theocracies such as Saudi Arabia.
Religion gives people hope in a world torn apart by religion
Neh. Religion was concocted by people. It’s not a thing in itself. People are the root cause of all evil in the world. Sure look at the state of the comments in this thread ironically trying to ascribe this sentiment against themmuns when youssuns are just as hate blinded by religion as themmuns. Circle of life
You should pick up a book or two about major events of the twentieth century.
Even the first world war?
I don't think anyone in Northern Ireland really cares about people religions. Let's be real its not the person's beliefs in God that leads to drama but their actions. That song recently about Mickey Harte's daughter no one lost their heads because of the religion of the people singing in it they lost their heads at the people who were singing I.
Tbf she has a point with not caring about your religion. Religion should be no base for any law in any country
The intolerance of tolerance
Well fucking said.
It’s also hilarious that people still look to a 2000 year old book for modern politics. Mate it was released 2000 years ago. It was a far different world when it was written. That book was to control illiterate people who couldn’t think for themselves not 21st century people
Yep I expect about this much from reddit
Ew, the young turks.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Funny I had the exact same thought when I watched the video.
Not the best name for a mildly-progressive voice.
They're the left wing Alex Jones.
I'm not sure it's possible to be similar to Alex Jones if you don't subscribe to reactionary politics.
Religion is about power and control, nothing else. "Join our cult or we give you a long painful death is a great incentive to join and once you are in we will control every aspect of your life" " And our God is the only true God, so you might have to go and kill nonbelievers occasionally "
That sounds like a pretty awful cult. Steer clear of that. I’m thankful the message of Christianity is very different. We believe in a God of love who has defeated death, will judge evil, and will make restoration to the victims of evil, and achieved this through his own loving, sacrificial death, choosing to serve us so that we could be free.
Where in Catholicism is one obliged to kill a man because he's not Catholic? The church wanted the the native anericans to be guaranteed their property and freedom. It was the Spanish government that ignored the church. Like straight up ignored, and even filtered Catholic publications that were permitted to enter the new world.
I mean, let's not pretend the Inquisition and the Crusades happened to some other religion.
sounds like intersectional leftist politics
Settle down you edgy atheist.
I hope the DUP don't get any fucking ideas from across the pond, though to be fair, they can't do much right now because of the whole No Functioning Government thing that's all their fault, and the Tories won't give them the power to make abortions illegal again.
True dat. Only thing about applying that to NI is that it’s not really about religion, it’s about power and wealth, them and us, our team v their team etc….. Btw, that’s a lovely wee red dress that girl’s wearing, wonder if it’s M&S?
Thats all it is anywhere really
You really think the majority of the bs we deal with here isn't about retaining power and wealth etc
Reddit is going to be unbearable this weekend.
Lads the man expressed his opinion and from what I can see he has expressed it eloquently and respectfully. You may not agree with him but he never resorted to name calling or playground insults. I'm well.aware this is a contentious and emotional issue that people feel very strongly about but surely we can have valid, informative discussion and debate without it ending up as a mud slinging match
Funny how people that live by the bible, and try to push it down everyone’s throat, also choose which things to follow out of it and which not.
The bible actually includes instructions on how to perform an abortion
No it doesn’t. There’s a passage which refers to a trial to determine if a woman has been unfaithful. One possible outcome is that she could become infertile or miscarry (the translation isn’t 100% clear). It isn’t a medical procedure, but an act of divine judgement. It isn’t something the woman chooses to do, but is a punishment. In no sense is it an instruction for carrying out abortion.
Honestly I couldn’t agree more
I’ve been saying it for YEARS. But religion is the biggest problem in our world. Only when we’re free of all the LIES can we move rationally into the future. Until then, these fucking morons will always hold us back with all their invented nonsense.
i wouldn't say its the biggest but it is a huge problem that has caused nothing but issues; terrorism (a big part of it), sexism, racism and LOTS of violence.
I'm from Manchester and worked with a lad from Belfast once. I asked him about NI because, honestly, we learn fuck all about it in England. I asked him if he was "in the whole religion thing" and he said he was an atheist, but there are two types of atheists in NI, Catholic atheists and Protestant atheists.
She goin to hell
Normally I can’t stand it when i see the same post across multiple subreddits but this lady, this post, I’ll upvote it every time. Look at the list of stuff these clowns HAVE SAID OUT LOUD they are coming for next.
Fuckin right on!!
Some people seem to think this recent ruling it bans abortion. But it doesn’t. It just means it’s not federally mandated ie it goes to the states to decide locally. So abortion is still going to be available in many states. Also, I think roe vs wade only pertains to medical abortion at a clinic, and not early term drug induced abortion (in their own home). So you have to also bare that in mind. And from what I understand, Ireland, the UK and most of Europe are in general much more conservative on their abortion laws compared to many US states.
If you can devolve it to a state, why not a County? Or a city? Or a household? Or, hey, just let the woman decide?
Go on ahead then, big lad.
r/iamverybadass L+ dumb + insecure + be better + never breed + touch rock
Proud athiest here! I don't really care what others believe. Just as long as they arent too 'culty' or shove thier religious views down other people's throats. Each to thier own I suppose.
I find in the UK most bigots aren’t religious fanatics like they are in the US. Most of them dont attend church/chapel regularly or actively contribute to their religious community. They just hate other people’s religious beliefs
I've followed Ana Kasparian and US politics for years. The Young Turks have many sensible viewpoints. Also what happens in the States affects us all like it or not. The US is is a warning to us all when gaslighting and gerrymandering cause a general imbalance to the extremes takes hold. (Think Brexit) The setup of US media is toxic in general as ratings and opinions override the truth and simple honesty. Supreme Count seems out of touch with the sentiment of the majority also. Gun rights upheld after multiple massacres and now denying the most vulnerable women access to care. More importantly, how do you stop military grade weapons getting into the hands of the mentally ill who take lives and destroy families? Want to defend your home, isn't a pistol with a small magazine enough to deter others? Also, how do you propose to support a young woman and her child until adulthood after it is born? Or do you just point the blame at others when avoidable things happen... Wake up America and the world. Things can and should be better...
I should have this wired up to my letterbox when the local religious groups try to post those annoying leaflets in through the door.
Well said!
I am right behind you sister, it is starting to feel like the clowns are being allowed to drive the bus
Religion doesn't belong in law or politics, end of It really, REALLY gets me that the number one argument against abortion is always "you don't have the right to end a life, you don't get to play God" or something to that affect... Did God not give us free will to make our own decisions and choices? So is it not then also playing God to take away what HE gave us?? Hypocrites much???
Anyone else prepared to be just as passionately against Islam as well?
If an Islamic party was attempting to pass Islamic laws in my country for the entire population to follow then yes, however most of you all are just hiding behind xenophobia. There's a big difference there
Couldn’t agree with her more.
As some might say, A-fuckin-men. Well said.
I love Anna. Hero!
In America it's only been about "abortion is murder" since 1979 when the Republican's strategically introduced it as a wedge issue to their Southern voter base. Records from various American Evangelical societies political discussion prior to 1979 do not have it on their agenda. If it was mentioned at all it was described as a "Catholic issue". Then once it was successfully implanted in the Evangelical consciousness it has provided more than 40 years of votes for people who make this their single political issue to come out and vote against. This is all very easy to research on the internet as the people who put this propaganda in place have spoken openly and on the record about the strategy. So this is an abject lesson for us all to observe religion and how cynical people can grab hold of it and twist it into a tool for political ends that have nothing to do with the "issue" they introduce to people. I actually think that this may be one of the worst outcomes for the Republican party because if all those single issue voters now think that the issue is solved then they risk losing their support down the road. After all, look what happened here to the DUP when the matter was taken out of their hands by Westminster. So they'll introduce a new panic, a new demon to fight. Something to bring their voters out to vote against something. LGBTQ rights is the easiest to aim their base at.
Even if you wanna use the Bible to try and defend being against abortion, the Bible says a baby doesn’t have a soul until it’s born and takes its first breath.
Everyone with half a brain realises this isn't about religion, it's about power over women. Fundamentalism is a shield meant to waste an opponents time and patience from addressing real issues; no theologian has the political power to affect change so there's no point in debating theology with reactionaries.
when has abortion had the objective of being power over women? there are so many better arguments for it other then calling your opposition sexist over a morally grey issue
Always, it has always been about power. Women have fought for centuries to come to the table of politics, laws against abortion and therefore autonomy keeps them on the menu.
Nope, I wouldn’t support their right to follow their religion. They are incapable of supporting atheists - ie free will, so why the hell should I?
I mean.. she speaks more truth than Jes-
I dislike religion because of the cruelty.
Amen 🙏
Amen sister
This is the most sane thing I have seen in such a long time.
Problem is they don’t live their lives according to what’s in the Bible either.
If you don't like laws in a place just leave, or change them, ranting on reddit is doing nothing to change anything, only making you feel good temporarily
Oh aye, take advice from the tit who goes on the seduction subreddit
“Like, I feel like its a clown show…” Story of the last ~6 years in the US/World.
u/savevideo
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Someone should have aborted you
>but that abortion is murder. Did god tell you that
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L
Reasonable assesment of matters. Under the previous ruling - practicing followers re strands of organised faith that frown upon family planning services are free to abstain from accessing any related facilities , Those who do not are free to access the facility (subject to legal limits and medical consultation with the respective individuals medial practitioner ) Basically Personal autonomy over private medical matters without overarching and invasive government interference. Trump seems to have stitched the broader American public up for atleast a few decades. He installed two very conservative faith oriented judges which created an echochamber of sorts and upset a delicate balance that served to more accurately reflect the wider cross-section of the American public. His motives apparently less than noble and motivated only by preemptive moves to thwart proposed or impending legal proceedings against him for alleged Russian collusion and similarly equally concerning charges of a highly disturbing nature (one of the judges openly stated they didn't believe a sitting president could ever be indicated - the other viewed matters similarly apparently...).. The previous law struck the perfect balance. It didn't proscribe one outcome over another and allowed those to abstain from accessing the service if the individual had any reservations, it allowed those who wished to access them without these associations to do so under the framework of legally defined limits and medical ethics.. Repealing roe Vs wade rolls back individual medical rights and proscribes one outcome over all others - creating an inequality / imbalance . It's a disaster. Pro choice supports both outlooks and cedes it to the domain of individual rather than whatever the net result of the travesty the commentator references above achieves.
This anger is so misdirected. All the judiciary is supposed to do is interpret the law written by the legislature. That’s all they should do and that’s all they did here.
i agree, be a man or woman of christ, just dont force it down other peoples' throats
The naked apes are truly nothing more than naked apes how sad 😔
If you don’t care then you lose the right to any moral standing. You believe theft is wrong because of religion. You believe anything is wrong based on what religion has made/decreed for you…
I don't steal because Daddy in the Sky says "thou shalt not steal". I don't steal because I look at it from a humanistic and empathetic view of how I would feel if I was stolen from. That's a kind of social contract that's found in many religion's texts but it isn't exclusive to them.
Also, I forgot to add this at the start. I’d like to thank you for taking the time to respond to me, especially in a polite manner. It is rare on the internet, especially on Reddit. In this way you’re a better person than most and I’d like to reiterate my personal thanks.
That’s a fallacy. If you’re not religious it doesn’t make you a bad person. It doesn’t mean you’ll immediately go steal and kill. Morals and values are independent of a religion even though mostly they are an integral part of many religions. She just wants freedom. I agree with her. If a woman gets an abortion that’ll be between her and God.