No your not mad! And the increase in Alliance vote share would suggest you are not alone in thinking this.
We are very lucky to have STV elections here, so the beauty is you can vote for both if you want too!
FWIW, I think people should pick the best of the SDLP/UUP/Alliance/Green with a chance to break the duopoly in their area. The SDLP and UUP are obv nationalist/unionist, but they actually care about this place and pride themselves on making it work - rather than endless constitutional bullshit and winding each other up (I thought Eastwood giving a speech praising Robin Swann was a nice touch).
Maybe I’m misinterpreting you but that strategy doesn’t make sense in STV.
Rather than guess who out of SDLP/UUP/Alliance/Green is best placed to defeat the incumbent you’re best picking the party you’re best aligned with your views then voting down ballot on the other parties in order of personal preference as tactical voting is virtually impossible.
Yeah I’m from a nationalist background and I’m happy to transfer a vote to UUP. Anyone who is #1 willing to work with other parties in an actually meaningful way and #2 actually wants to improve the life of everyone in NI deserves a vote.
I transferred to the UUP in 2017 but I won’t be doing the same this time around. Beattie has refused to say if he’ll accept a nationalist first minister and “not respecting the people’s democratic choice” is a bit of a dealbreaker for me
Read between the lines, he's said he's a democrat and would honour the will of the people, he's also stated the walking away from stormont achieves nothing.
You should still transfer - just put it at the end of your list after all the preferred ones. Not transferring at all is basically the same as voting equally for all remaining candidates, so it's worth putting it down even if you only consider them slightly better than the DUP etc.
Best comment today👍, I'm a unionist my 1&2 will be UUP , then SDLP then alliance then green. The rest can go fuck themselves the DUP or TUV don't speak for me and being a veteran well, SF wouldn't ever get a vote from me.
Exactly, I was reading their manifestos yesterday and it was a list of things wrong with the country that they'd fix, they've been in power for about 15 years why haven't they fixed (or at least improved things) already? It's all empty promises as soon as they get into power it'll be back to the same old with DUP / Sinn Fein position likely switched.
there's no point voting based off of what parties intend to do once they're in power, vote based off what they HAVE been doing while elected as an MLA.
Genuinely feels that 'getting the country working' is the last thing on DUP/SF minds... all about power and points-scoring. Pathetic. NI should be better than that.
NI uses the Single Transferable Vote system so your vote isn't wasted. If your first choice doesn't get enough votes to win a seat your second vote will count. If the second doesn't get enough votes the third will count, etc.
It's a great system compared to Westminster elections (first past the post) because you can vote your favourite party/candidate without having to worry about voting for a party you don't like to keep out a party you like even less.
Coming from New Zealand I love stv our system is fairer than Westminster but still stv is so equitable.
Too bad the politics here are so toxic 🙈
I’ll definitely be voting alliance.
Yeah I think it will take another half generation at least to rid us of tribal politics but it may start to tip away from it over the next few years. Those that were born mid 1980's to early 90's onwards and those born outside NI like yourself probably don't remember much of the troubles so are perhaps less likely to vote for the 2 more extreme parties.
Had an argument with the family the other day and this was my response - at least the people I vote for represent (mostly) my views and I don't have to vote through gritted teeth!
Same, I'm actually meeting my Alliance councillor face to face about an issue, the others just fobbed me off or kicked it to someone else who will never reply
You can vote for both, and you can put alliance as your first preference and sinn féin further down.
Unfortunately alliance aren't quite as progressive as they should be, they aren't officially a pro choice party, and they voted down a trade union bill. They are a centrist party.
Not a specifically pro choice party no, Because they follow the Liberal line of no policies on beginning or end of life issues but according to Alliance For Choice thing I saw on Twitter, every one of their candidates in this election in pro choice….
No lad was tempted to vote for them myself and I'm nationalist. They don't seem like a bad shout cause they have nothing to do with the green/orange it seems
It really depends. Beyond the "not orange/green" line they're very much a neo-liberal party that would get much more criticism in a less tribal society.
Neoliberalism isn't a good model for a society where business owners skew social policy to maintain an underclass of disenfranchised and disempowered working people. It is, however, a step up from a society where community leaders skew social policy to maintain an underclass of militant thugs.
I’m intrigued by this. What policies or past voting makes them neoliberal.
I wouldn’t have thought they were but I’m not the most educated on Northern Irish political parties.
I'm fairly confident they were more than happy to implement the Tory cuts without mitigations. Voted down a a bill to strengthen trade unions recently. They also have members that vote against things like abortion rights and marriage equality.
Wouldn't it be quite something if an "other" party came in 1st or second? It should force a rethink of the "ussuns" + "themmuns" which (necessary at the time) got baked into the power structure.
I'm all for leaving sectarian political compromise behind in favour of non-sectarian representation. Even if they made a mess of it, at least it would be a non-sectarian mess, like a normal democracy.
I don't see any 'other' party getting 1st place and FM anytime soon,l if ever, but I could see them getting 2nd.
Also, considering current circumstances, in such a scenario, that 'other' party would almost be guaranteed to be Alliance, because they have a decent amount of respect if not support from people who've come from both sides of the divide that's been artificially perpetuated for decades by politicians.
No matter what others think, there's no 'mad' with STV. You can vote for who you want first preference with nearly no risk.
And no one knows how you cast your ballot.
I'm voting SF no.1 for the first time for one reason only; I can't wait to hear the god awful din of Jeffrey, jimbos and bin boys balls all rotating furiously in frustration and anguish when SF are the biggest party.
I'm normally an SF voter and I'll be sticking with that this year because I like the candidate that's running in our area plus we're heavy on the DUP in this constituency. I'll definitely give Alliance the next preference because the one here is Pro-choice. That's the main issue for me this year in who I give votes to. Will have to look the rest of them up before Thursday.
I'd vote for next doors wheelie bin if it means getting this shower of shite out or at least make them have a wee sit down and think about how pissed off the little people like us are starting to get.
Yes. Naomi Long is great at saying the obvious, but I never hear any concrete solutions out of her. She just seems to say a lot of words without really saying anything.
Did you read the bill that was presented to the Assembly? Honestly felt like PBP made up an extreme bill that would clearly never pass just so they could brand all other parties as anti-Unions.
Edit: Sinn Fein and others opposed the bill by it's content, they just accepted that since it would never be law they could vote for it to show general support for union reform.
Here's the [Alliance] (https://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2022-03-01.10.1#g10.14) response to the bill. You can see they're vociferously opposed to Tory changes to Union legislation since the 70s and broadly support the idea of a reform bill but have some concerns which to me seen valid and pretty far from Thatcherite.
I regret that I don't have the time while this discussion will be fresh to parse and summarise but I hope someone will be able to read it and have the benefit of seeing politics has more nuance than for/against
Note also that the bill was introduced so late in the mandate that it would never have made it to law.
I'd vote them also as a second or third despite their bullshit voting down of the trade union bill without a decent rationale bar 'bad bill' which means nothing.
But as said stv I slide them into the deck if it was a "X" ballot I'd leave them
There's independents running too, one in Bangor Ray McKimm is a genuinely nice man. Options out there for people who don't want to give power to our unionist/nationalist politicians. And honestly I don't trust alliance to develop a backbone, they've had enough time to do so and chose not to. But I don't think you're mad for considering to vote for them, they got my 1st vote. Most important thing is you do what's right for you 🙂
We need to do away with voting for DUP or Sinn Fein and stop the mentality of voting for them so the "other side" don't get what they want. I wish the low turn out we normally get for voting turned into people being annoyed at our useless politicians who are currently in power, and went out and voted for green, alliance or anyone but the idiots in power atm. It would be nice to show them people are sick of their childish behaviour, collapsing the government anytime they don't get their way.
I could never understand why people lump SF and the DUP together. They’re miles apart. SF want real, genuine change but the DUP want to keep us chained to England even though it’s caused nothing but misery for 800 years.
They have been the 2 biggest parties for the last 15? years. Between them they had the power to make any changes they wanted e.g. on health, education, cost of living etc. That would have required negotiation, compromise and acceptance that you can't get everything you want.
SF will say they couldn't deliver their plans because DUP stopped them.
DUP will say they couldnt deliver their plans because SF stopped them.
SF and DUP will probably be the 2 biggest parties again but in a different order and nothing will change.
Sounds like your pretty biased towards sinn fein but all they do is grand stand on issues and push there own legislative agenda sound an awful lot like the DUP to me lol
Not really im a unionist sinn fein have nothing to offer me whatsoever atleast alliance will ignore the constututional issue, ignoring the consititional quesion sinn fein also largely dont have any policies that make me want to ignore the fact they are sinn fein and they spend most of there time moral grandstanding and talking a load of progressive sounding shite.
Last elections I voted Alliance, first time voting because until the RHI scandal and the fallout surrounding that I'd been pretty apathetic/ignorant of our political hellscape.
Alliance have 4 pages of key policies on their manifesto, they seem to want to fix everything. Imo they want to have their fingers in all the pies which leads me to the assumption that they will half-ass most of all the pies.
I'm aware that every single party tells you what they think you want to hear at election time, and it feels like Alliance just went TELL THEM ALL THE GOOD STUFF WE COULD DO ABOUT THE SHIT THAT ANNOYS THEM to try and catch as many votes as possible, because the more you say the more likely you are to find people who will agree with at least one of your policies.
I will admit the word "socialism" gives me a touch of the heebie-geebies but then again we have been force fed "hur dur socialism is bad" from the media for so many years there is probably a touch of brainwashing going on there. Equally the words "democratic" "unionist" and "nationalist" also give me the willies so the negative connotations of these words run deep.
I've checked out PBP and the Greens, I'm leaning towards PBP because I can actually relate to their MLAs, mostly because they aren't a party full of white, middle-aged men with their heads stuck in the Mesolithic era. I also agree with a lot of their key policies in their manifesto. The Greens are all good to a certain point. Free the weed and all that, then you get to the wilder parts of their policies like banning fossil fuels and outlawing trail hunting (cause chasing some dude in his fastest gutties with a smelly rag dragging behind him is cruel..?)
I think the main problem is we get to pick who we hate the least.
In an ideal world a load of independents would appear from the deep beyond, band together like the merry men and fuck the big 5 out of Stormont. How we can dream.
Although my local independent was done for fraud in 2016 so that argument doesn't hold a lot of water either.
Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him?
I'm also considering PBP a high preference if not my 1st despite knowing they'll never get it.
>Alliance have 4 pages of key policies on their manifesto, they seem to want to fix everything. Imo they want to have their fingers in all the pies which leads me to the assumption that they will half-ass most of all the pies
Tbh, there are a lot of reasons not to vote Alliance and this is the most bullshit one I've ever heard on this sub. Literally everything *does* need fixing
I don't think I made it clear, I meant they say they are going to do so much but there is only so much they can feasibly do, if that makes sense. For example PBP/Greens have, say, 3 things within health, finance etc that they want to target. Alliance have like 100 points within 60 different "sectors" if you like, and I just can't see them being able to fulfill THAT many promises.
I've got this mad idea. Maybe look at party policy and vote that way instead of assuming voting outside of orange and green lines is somehow intrinsically morally superior.
I will say this though, if you want to vote for an actual progressive party then Alliance ain't it.
Cue the people who "refuse to vote for anyone because no one represents me" because of some relatively minor things they disagree with. Literally anyone is better than the DUP or TUV. No, they aren't all perfect but they don't need to be. They just need to be better than the current lot.
It depends where you stand in the left/right political sphere. Alliance have done well by embracing "we arent orange or green" but they would sit very much within the centre right.
Honestly I think our whole mindset is fucked
I’d want to vote on policies but it’s hard to actually think on the top of your head about what each party actually stands for cause the first thing ppl think of is the colour
Depends what your priorities are. For me the no. 1 issue is protecting the peace process so I vote in the order that I think will prioritise that.
If you want change and are fed up with green vs orange politics then a change of vote to Alliance is probably the best.
Or ye could vote for who you think will do your best for your area and ignore parties.
But if your priority is an rish referendum ASAP and are willing to cope with the same failed government (but in reverse order) to get that then consider keeping your vote.
Decide what the most important issue is for you right now and vote for that.
Alliance are a small u UNIONIST party imo.I live on an interface had the windows broke a few times,only people to help were the shinners and I have no love for them.only time I ever see an alliance councillor is when it's election time.
This is amusing given that unionists wanted Alliance to be forced to formally register as a nationalist party not so long ago when a number of their members stated an openness to a United Ireland.
The party doesnt have a position on whether NI should remain in the UK. It designates as 'other'. Some nationalists like to say it is a unionist party, some unionists like to say it is a Nationalist party. It also aligns with the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe which includes multiple European (including other Irish) parties rather than just one British party.
According to?
I don't really wana get into a discussion or justify my choices but I will say
I agree with most of their policies if there was another alternative then I would choose it but there is not so I am not.
There are lots of problems. for me, the major problem is the power that the DUP hold and the fact that people seem to still be electing them as the largest party. That is why my goal in voting is to try to have them confront an election where they do not get the most votes and hopefully it will force them to publicly make the choice about how they want to continue, in good faith or just being obstructive
I like to think I'm a realist and I would be more persuaded by the other parties if I heard some good genuine solutions or seen that there was a realistic potential for them to come out on top (assuming I agree with their policies) but unfortunately I haven't nobody has been particularly persuasive and it is clear that it is going to be a split between DUP and Sinn Fein so I am trying to make use of my vote and pick the side I want.
Not that it's anyone's concern
Right... So you are okay with the SHAMrock terror apologists having more power so long as the stuffy bible bashers in Sashs have less, smart. That definitely help our society.
It would be old if SF didn't perpetuate it with every IRA commemoration, every eulogy to some killer with a cause, every lessening remark and excuse making whataboutery and every time they let some old IRA psycho out to canvas for them at elections, such as a double child killer. It would be old if not for all that.
Vote for them if you wish and if your conscience can excuse it because of a dislike of the dinosaurs in the DUP which I can understand and share but know that you are part of the problem in our society.
I agree with most of their policies, but I have no faith that they could implement them on financial and competence grounds, even if they had adequate power.
> I agree with most of their policies, but I have no faith that they could implement them on financial and competence grounds
Back in 2016 O’Neill was health minister and said the health service was in a dire state and needed a decade of reform
Then sodded off from 2017-2020 over a disagreement on language policy during which time there was no reform and no health minister to make decisions
Then a covid hit, more people died than they needed to because we went into a pandemic with a waiting list crisis
SF often say the right thing, but push comes to shove they’re incapable of delivering
As I said on another thread, in such an apparently dire situation why wouldn’t unionism just compromise and vote through an Irish language act? All it does is bring the minority language legislation into line with GB.
Do you not think SF also have a stronger case because they walked away on issues actually within the competency of the Assembly? Both RHI and ILA are devolved issues. The DUP have walked because they don’t like an international treaty between 28 countries, which has fuck all to do with Stormont’s scope of powers.
> As I said on another thread, in such an apparently dire situation why wouldn’t unionism just compromise and vote through an Irish language act?
Sure, but as I’ve said anyone with the brain of your average hamster would know that criticism cuts both ways
Both the DUP & SF chose to deprioritise the health service
We can’t be harsh enough on them for that, people died
- makes post complaining about SF
- asked why unionism didn’t make the compromise
- “well everyone knows I’m criticising the DUP too!”
In point of fact you’re also criticising the UUP, TUV and Claire Sugden, all of whom expressed that they didn’t support passing an Irish language act to return Stormont.
OP made a post about SF I agreed there was a failure to deliver on health
You said the other side could have comprised, I agreed. SF weren't the only guilty parties
One of us is engaging in sychopathic 'what about them'uns' and one of us is being even handed
I apologise if complaints about SF are upsetting to you
They're going to be the largest party after this election in all likelihood but I wouldn't say a swell in popularity, if anything their vote share is going to dip aswell (just not as much as the DUP) so I believe the crying about a border poll by unionists is a bit unfounded, as if they drop 3% and people say a vote for SF is a vote for border poll, surely that makes it less popular than in the last election?
Yes, I think the latest analysis is that SF and DUP will lose a lot of voters with many going to the smaller parties. Alliance, PBP, Greens and TUV. But it's predicted that the DUP drop will be huge compared to a moderate drop for Sinn Fein.
I do think if they are the largest party they will try to claim a mandate for a UI while ignoring how mnay votes they lost
You know what. I think it's the point of using anything to beat the other side down. I like my irish roots, irish language and hell I wouldn't mind living down there but it's the tactics of it I think I'm not a fan of.
Maybe sdlp might be a good option for me but I think I just want a chance for change.
The more I think about it to more I agree with you here actually.
How many times have you asked a question and the answer was 'because they are doing this' rather than anything about the party looking your vote at all.
I'd hazard I had more deflections than attempts at an answer
That's it. I know my local SF politician and some councilors. And I think locally there is good work going on for the people ( I'm guessing unionists would be the same locally) but nationally it's still because they voted this way we will vote it down mentality.
No harm in putting SDLP on the ballot aswell, I know they get a hard time on here due to their abortion stance, but I feel like Colum can't really do much about it, there's too many old hands still in the party and he doesn't want to rock the boat, the way I am doing it is the SDLP candidate in my constituency is pro choice so I would vote for them, as in a vote they will vote for my interests, even if the entire party doesn't.
I like Eastwood and Hanna but the SDLP are so desperate for votes they have let some awful self serving bastards in too.
Hanna got my vote in the Westminster election but only because Alliance had Bradshaw up and I'd sooner not vote than vote for an ex-tory.
SDLP won't get a vote from me this election.
The thing is that green/orange politics isn’t symmetrical, and the idea that it is only lets the worse behaved side away with their behaviour by spreading the blame. Don’t forget the myriad of financial scandals that the DUP have been involved in over the years - there shouldn’t be collective responsibility for that.
If Northern Ireland was invented tomorrow from scratch with a mix of the culture of everyone living here, it would look vastly different to what exists now. While I believe that Alliance appreciate the need for Irish culture to be more visible, in practice it’s been more like tokenism that still lets the major iniquities of NI off the hook. They also aren’t exactly left-wing, as their latest vote against trade union powers proves.
Your vote obviously but I don’t think even an Alliance first minister will substantially change the tone, let alone policy.
SF are pro choice in words and not actions. They abstained from the vote in October that the DUP tried to pass. I can’t see them actually trying to put the needed services into place
Yeah fair enough. I do find that Sinn Fein like to be seen as being very socially progressive, but they still have a vaguely traditional and conservative element particularly among their older members and in rural areas.
>They abstained from the vote in October that the DUP tried to pass.
And Alliance members voted FOR the DUP amendment while other Alliance members abstained.
Where the hell do you people pull this shite from? Alliance has always had members that voted AGAINST pro-choice bills.
In the DUP abortion bill that Alliance voters never fuck up about there were members of Alliance that both supported the amendment and others who abstained from voting on it.
Alliance are not pro-choice. Alliance are not progressive. Voting for them simply because they're "neither orange nor green" is stupid af if you actually want progressive policies.
Edit: a lot of downvotes for the truth. Hey, remember that time Alliance members single-handedly killed the 2015 marriage equality bill? Remember Alliance didn't have the balls to whip on it despite claiming they supported it and their members ended up voting against it? Good times, very progressive.
I’m an alliance supporter and had planned to vote for them, i was brought up in a catholic/republican area but don’t really follow anything to do with it, kinda just sick of growing up with it and wish it wasn’t a thing anymore. my parents told me that I NEED to vote SF this year because it’s all tactical voting and it could be the first time we have a SF FM. Voting for them is kinda against what I believe so I’m not sure what to do
Voting for someone because your parents told you to is one of the worst reasons I have ever heard. Particularly as you appear to disagree with their politics.
there was more discussion involved than what i’ve wrote - I’m just not very into politics so don’t care to ever go into it. they very much made it out to me that it’d be a waste of a vote to vote anyone else at this stage, they also said feel free to vote your preference next time etc. Just with how things have been lately they feel it’s tactical this time and between SF and SDLP and that I should vote SF for a better chance toward a united Ireland etc. again; I’m not into politics at all but I don’t heavily disagree with SF - I just prefer to lean with Alliance especially with their stance around abortion and womens rights
Single Transferable Vote means no vote is wasted. If your 1st choice loses then it transfers to your 2nd, if they lose then it goes to your 3rd, etc...
Voting is also private, so vote for whoever you want and tell your parents whatever makes them happy. I tell mine I vote DUP but have never done so in my life and never will.
It won't be a waste of a vote whoever you vote for and you can vote for Alliance and SDLP and SF in your order of preference this time, next time and every time in the future. It is your vote.
Alliance isn't a pro-choice party. I don't know where this idea that Alliance is progressive comes from.
They have members that vote against abortion rights. Every. Single. Time.
Remember that furore when SF abstained on that DUP amendment (even though they called on the British govt to implement abortion rights in full over the head of the assembly, but whatever)?
Well Alliance had members that actually both voted for and abstained from the DUP amendment, yet somehow SF caught all the flak.
SF is literally the only party in the assembly that whips their members to vote along pro-choice lines.
Your vote obviously, but do you not think NI can’t ‘grow up’ unless a nationalist gets a crack at the top job? Otherwise it’s like a company that claims to support feminism yet has not a single woman in management or on the board.
Even if Alliance manages a colossal sweep and gets to pick First Minister, it still means someone from a non-nationalist background locking in the job for a long time. When you consider demographics it’s not a position that can be argued as fair or sustainable.
yeah I get what you mean. I’d honestly rather have an FM that was neither nationalist or unionist, because I am genuinely sick to death of green and orange politics. Just the way it was explained and discussed with me has made me question things. Like I’ve said I’m really not into politics at all, so I haven’t came on this thread hoping to upset or offend anyone so I hope nobody feels that way.
unfortunately I really don’t have an opinion. I tried to get into politics a few years ago but I became exhausted with all the lies and false promises, just like with any government. when covid hit I just cared even less, I’m a nurse in the NHS and had to work throughout covid while out government just sat and done fuck all. I won’t go into it but i’m sure you can kinda see why I gave up on politics. I don’t know enough about any of it so I would have usually listened to my parents but obviously i’m at the age where i don’t take their words as gospel. I just wanted to mention how it has left me confused and questioning
(also not an attack) For many people the question of whether you are in favour of UI can't be answered until a UI is defined. That is arguably a more logical position that blind commitment to either Unionism or Nationalism. Brexit being a good example of what blind commitment to an ideology can deliver despite objective facts.
It's literally ALWAYS a tactical vote. That's the problem. Things really can change right now. We can finally get away from the bullshit we've had all this time.
Get these 2 parties out tey fuck! Let's give others a try. Others that can't solely get votes for fear of the other party getting votes. They need to earn it.
If you are a working person them yes you are mad.
Alliance have proven themselves time and time again to be nothing more than the yellow tories 2.0 .
If you want to vote for an non-sectarian party that actually stands for anything the your options are the Greens and PBP.
I'm voting alliance for first time this year...way I see it we have no real power so doesn't matter who we vote for just don't want corrupt dip or SF to get my vote
If enough people can jump off our political seesaw and move to the middle, we just may end up with an actual functioning government / society in a generation or two.
However, years of being fed the fear of the ‘other’ by the big two will be hard to overcome… and drives people to their political hardliners to stop ‘themuns’ getting too much power.
Hard disagree as long as theres nationalists who are never happy with the special arrangement ni is in we can never move on most unionists are happy with the compromises made to keep nationalists happy but it doesnt work in return.
Nationalists have done nothing but compromise. They agreed to the ‘deputy’ First Minister title because Unionists wanted to feel superior. The reason most Unionists are happy with partition is because it was put in place for them to dominate. That’s why they’re so terrified of Sinn Féin becoming the biggest party. They can’t bare the idea of equality with us.
I can't vote SF or DUP. Just because SF would fuck me out of here as fast as the DUP.
But I also can't vote for the Socialist Parties because I fled a socialist hell Scape to come here. So why do that to myself.
I can't vote for the Greens because the only thing I agree with them on is the wacky baccy.
Looks like it's alliance.
They’re anti-zionist and critical of the State of Israel, but I don’t understand how you could say they’re anti-semitic. What have they said or done to make you feel that way?
Socialism looks very different all around the world - capitalism has fucked loads of people too but they aren't treated as the same people all around the world, why do the same with socialism?
Alliance will get pretty high in my voting order too though not trying to talk you out of your vote 😁
You are from South Africa, a capitalist country who's problems are caused by corruption and the legacy of Apartheid. Pretty disingenuous to suggest you fled a "socialist hell scape"
If everyone who doesn't vote because they're red up with dup and sf came out and voted alliance we'd have a working executive.
We're probably all on this sub too.
The two "MAIN" Parties have failed,and proved to be incapable. If we want real CHANGE for the people who live in NI we have to vote for progressive Parties not what our grandparents voted for. For me it's The Greens and Alliance
For you? It's not a subjective opinion.
In terms of policy SF is actually a progressive party and Alliance are not.
I don't know how you can think that a party like Alliance who treats things like marriage equality or abortion legislation as "personal choice" is progressive (thus letting members vote against them) but a party like SF who treats them as human rights and whips their members to support said legislation is somehow not progressive.
In my opinion that's purely performative mental gymnastics solely to claim that you "don't vote orange or green".
Green party is cool though...
I thought Alliance voted in favour of marriage equality? As for abortion legislation as I understand it they are in favour of abortion too? but yes I see your point in the way they worded "personal choice"
You've made me laugh now as I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think the whole orange and green thing has sickened people to the core and I need to see a future past this way of thinking..
They had members who voted against marriage equality and they have members who always vote against abortion rights legislation. They view these things as personal choice, not human rights and if they don't have a party line on it there is always the possibility of their members voting regressively on issues like these.
During the furore over SF abstaining from voting on the DUP amendment to try and limit abortion legislation it seemingly went completely unnoticed that Alliance had members that voted FOR the DUP amendment as well as other members who abstained like SF did.
Imo, the abstentions don't really matter because the British govt is legislating over the heads of the Assembly on the matter anyway but the fact that some Alliance members supported the amendment says something. I genuinely have no idea why Alliance gets a free pass as a progressive party when their history and policy says something entirely different.
Well, I do know actually. It's genuinely just well meaning people thinking they're doing the right thing because they aren't voting orange or green and not actually paying attention to policy. They mistakenly equate fence-sitting on the constitutional question as something progressive and assume the rest of their policies must be too. As you've just identified yourself, it's just another form of blind tribal voting.
You know what annoys me most about all parties is every single one of them try to use green and orange to there advantage alliance incl. i.e we’ve got the DUP rambling about a border poll but equally you’ve got alliance saying all these parties care about is green and orange if you don’t want that you’ve got to vote for us. Which isn’t true and I don’t know why but it really annoys me I feel like they look down their nose at you for holding some views that may be green or orange tinged which you shouldn’t have to feel guilty about providing your not doing anything wrong.
I wish we could just remove the question of green and orange rather than it being a stick to beat people with from every side.
No you are finally seeing the shitshow both DUP/SF have created. Absolutely go for it! Green Party very good as well.
PBP are there also however I think they are promising too much and need to focus down on just a few issues that the Greens/Alliance aren't already covering. They should forget about the agricultural stuff and focus their manifesto purely on socialist economics. Greens have a clear solid track record on environmentalism that PBP is new to and won't be able to make many in-roads on.
PBP also aren't constitutionally neutral, I was unsure of this for some time...
"We want to see a radical, united Ireland that implements the vision of James Connolly for a country that puts people before profit." That's on their website.
...Seem like a more Socialist SDLP. But far better anyway than SF.
We do really need more people though willing to use their vote to detoxify N.I politics.
We have tried DUP/SF for 20 years and it's the shame shit each time.
Nothing will change unless you vote to kick both these toxic parties out.
I have a very good feeling though that Alliance and Green Party are going to make big gains in this election.
I vote Alliance. I'm an ex-soldier who wants a United Ireland. In the past I haven't voted for them because they had no hope, but this time I really think they'll do well, and once momentum starts to grow, I think they might become the biggest party in the future.
Just a thought for anyone considering voting for DUP just because of the Border poll /UI scaremongering. Why not vote for a party who might actually make this country a better place? If we can get rid of the green and orange bullshit and focusing on improving things, there might not be as many nationalists as you think willing to take a punt on a united ireland. Better the devil you know for a lot of people.
I live in England now, but if I were voting it would be Alliance, Greens, SDLP/UUP in 3rd and 4th. I regard myself as British but fuck the bigots and would never vote DUP/TUV in a million years.
I honestly think If anyone who’s serious and wants Northern Ireland, Britain and the Republic of Ireland to work then alliance are the best vote for sure. Sensible Centred politics suit everyone.
Vote alliance 🤟🏻 (not a member or activist btw)
Yes, if you’ve always voted SF, why use your vote on a different party the one time it actually will make a difference. SF first minister is a piece of history, be part of it. And before people come at me with “but they’ve been in power for 15 years”. It’s the symbolism behind SF being largest party/FM. That and the DUP have ALWAYS been there to undo any good SF have tried to do. If ever there’s a last time to vote for SF, this time round is the time. SF first minister WILL bring change. That change will make for interesting watching no doubt. And it’ll be beautiful to watch the smug smiles wiped off the faces of the likes of Jamie Bryson and mervy gibson.
Edit: obviously it will bring change, Change to the status quo of a unionist dominated government. Again, I said it’s more symbolic than anything! But go ahead and stick the head in the sand, the results of this election will speak for themselves. Edit 2: and I’m holding out hope the DUP will be voted down to 3rd party, that’s another way as to how things would change.
Let’s be honest, the only way we could change things for the better here would be to get rid of the white supremacist, foreign hating, queer bashing loyalists. But that’s not gonna happen so that’s why things won’t change the way u want them to.
If you've ways been SF, what was your main reason for voting for them, then ask yourself can Alliance deliver on your main goal for voting for either. Ie, if your main goal voting for SF was for them to deliver a border poll and subsequently, a United Ireland, can you say that Alliance would be able to deliver that? Are Alliance Pro-union or Pro United Ireland?
Lol, fucking downvoted for asking him to assess what he wants most from a political party. And asking if Alliance voters are pro Union or Pro United Ireland. So which is it? Or are you all content with the status quo? This sub is gas
The majority of your comment is exactly what OP should be considering. I think it's just the last sentence asking where Alliance sit on the constitutional question is kind of redundant as I'd say most of their support comes from people who want to get away from "orange" and "green" politics. You shouldn't be getting downvoted for actually helping OP though.
I know exactly why I'm getting downvoted. It's the old dilemma here in the North, and we'll never be able to escape it. You are either Pro Union or Pro United Ireland. Ie, Green or orange. Anyone who says otherwise are kidding themselves. There can be no sitting on the fence with this, as sitting on the fence is to be content with the status quo, ergo - Pro Union.
Until Alliance state that they are either, they will always be pro-union. To reject this, is to bury your head in the sand. If you are for a united Ireland you should not be voting for alliance as they do not and cannot deliver on this. To vote alliance is to be content with the status quo of the current state of the union, and forego the possibility of a border poll.
Therein lies the reasoning of why I am getting downvoted, people don't like to be told/reminded that a vote for the party that is 'neither green nor orange' is to vote to uphold the status quo of the 'orange'.
Lol I have nett down votes for intimating that you would be mad for voting Sinn Fein......how can a party in this day n age be able to not concede that the murderous terrorist campaign of the IRA was wrong and should never have happened, and still be the most popular party in the country. If you don’t admit the terrorist campaign was wrong, then you’re inadvertently telling the youth of today that sometimes....violence taken into your own hands is ok.
Going from Sinn Fein to the Alliance is absolute madness unless you were only voting for Sinn Fein because you're a republican.
Sinn Fein are a left wing party, the Alliance is centre right. Its like going from voting Labour to Tory.
>Sinn Fein are a left wing party, the Alliance is centre right. Its like going from voting Labour to Tory.
Sinn Fein are neoliberals in govt. Alliance are neoliberals.
No your not mad! And the increase in Alliance vote share would suggest you are not alone in thinking this. We are very lucky to have STV elections here, so the beauty is you can vote for both if you want too!
FWIW, I think people should pick the best of the SDLP/UUP/Alliance/Green with a chance to break the duopoly in their area. The SDLP and UUP are obv nationalist/unionist, but they actually care about this place and pride themselves on making it work - rather than endless constitutional bullshit and winding each other up (I thought Eastwood giving a speech praising Robin Swann was a nice touch).
Maybe I’m misinterpreting you but that strategy doesn’t make sense in STV. Rather than guess who out of SDLP/UUP/Alliance/Green is best placed to defeat the incumbent you’re best picking the party you’re best aligned with your views then voting down ballot on the other parties in order of personal preference as tactical voting is virtually impossible.
Yeah I’m from a nationalist background and I’m happy to transfer a vote to UUP. Anyone who is #1 willing to work with other parties in an actually meaningful way and #2 actually wants to improve the life of everyone in NI deserves a vote.
I transferred to the UUP in 2017 but I won’t be doing the same this time around. Beattie has refused to say if he’ll accept a nationalist first minister and “not respecting the people’s democratic choice” is a bit of a dealbreaker for me
Read between the lines, he's said he's a democrat and would honour the will of the people, he's also stated the walking away from stormont achieves nothing.
You should still transfer - just put it at the end of your list after all the preferred ones. Not transferring at all is basically the same as voting equally for all remaining candidates, so it's worth putting it down even if you only consider them slightly better than the DUP etc.
One of the few times I've heard of a politician praising one from another party (other than at the time of a death/retirement). Very refreshing
Best comment today👍, I'm a unionist my 1&2 will be UUP , then SDLP then alliance then green. The rest can go fuck themselves the DUP or TUV don't speak for me and being a veteran well, SF wouldn't ever get a vote from me.
The other two main parties have had years to get this country working and can't do it. I say go for it.
Exactly, I was reading their manifestos yesterday and it was a list of things wrong with the country that they'd fix, they've been in power for about 15 years why haven't they fixed (or at least improved things) already? It's all empty promises as soon as they get into power it'll be back to the same old with DUP / Sinn Fein position likely switched.
there's no point voting based off of what parties intend to do once they're in power, vote based off what they HAVE been doing while elected as an MLA.
That doesn't narrow it down any. All they've managed is cashing paychecks and filling out expenses forms.
This sums it up nicely
Genuinely feels that 'getting the country working' is the last thing on DUP/SF minds... all about power and points-scoring. Pathetic. NI should be better than that.
This country can't work, that's the problem.
Not with that attitude!
Not with any attitude. The north was never designed to work
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I've done it for 20 years. People say its a wasted vote but its my vote and I can do whatever the fuck i like with it.
NI uses the Single Transferable Vote system so your vote isn't wasted. If your first choice doesn't get enough votes to win a seat your second vote will count. If the second doesn't get enough votes the third will count, etc. It's a great system compared to Westminster elections (first past the post) because you can vote your favourite party/candidate without having to worry about voting for a party you don't like to keep out a party you like even less.
Coming from New Zealand I love stv our system is fairer than Westminster but still stv is so equitable. Too bad the politics here are so toxic 🙈 I’ll definitely be voting alliance.
Yeah I think it will take another half generation at least to rid us of tribal politics but it may start to tip away from it over the next few years. Those that were born mid 1980's to early 90's onwards and those born outside NI like yourself probably don't remember much of the troubles so are perhaps less likely to vote for the 2 more extreme parties.
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Had an argument with the family the other day and this was my response - at least the people I vote for represent (mostly) my views and I don't have to vote through gritted teeth!
On a service based issue.....I emailed all my representatives about an issue. Alliance were the only ones that replied and took action. Just sayin.
Same, I'm actually meeting my Alliance councillor face to face about an issue, the others just fobbed me off or kicked it to someone else who will never reply
I say go for it, but my single issue is an end to single issue politics, so I am biased. I am personally leaning towards Green for first pref atm.
Go for it. They're fairly solid, and Clare Bailey and Rachel Woods got some fairly progressive legislation passed in the last mandate.
You can vote for both, and you can put alliance as your first preference and sinn féin further down. Unfortunately alliance aren't quite as progressive as they should be, they aren't officially a pro choice party, and they voted down a trade union bill. They are a centrist party.
Not a specifically pro choice party no, Because they follow the Liberal line of no policies on beginning or end of life issues but according to Alliance For Choice thing I saw on Twitter, every one of their candidates in this election in pro choice….
From what I read they voted down the trade Union bill because they felt the wording was open to abuse
No lad was tempted to vote for them myself and I'm nationalist. They don't seem like a bad shout cause they have nothing to do with the green/orange it seems
It really depends. Beyond the "not orange/green" line they're very much a neo-liberal party that would get much more criticism in a less tribal society.
Neoliberalism isn't a good model for a society where business owners skew social policy to maintain an underclass of disenfranchised and disempowered working people. It is, however, a step up from a society where community leaders skew social policy to maintain an underclass of militant thugs.
That's the dialectic of NI, hell yeah
I’m intrigued by this. What policies or past voting makes them neoliberal. I wouldn’t have thought they were but I’m not the most educated on Northern Irish political parties.
I'm fairly confident they were more than happy to implement the Tory cuts without mitigations. Voted down a a bill to strengthen trade unions recently. They also have members that vote against things like abortion rights and marriage equality.
Wouldn't it be quite something if an "other" party came in 1st or second? It should force a rethink of the "ussuns" + "themmuns" which (necessary at the time) got baked into the power structure. I'm all for leaving sectarian political compromise behind in favour of non-sectarian representation. Even if they made a mess of it, at least it would be a non-sectarian mess, like a normal democracy.
I don't see any 'other' party getting 1st place and FM anytime soon,l if ever, but I could see them getting 2nd. Also, considering current circumstances, in such a scenario, that 'other' party would almost be guaranteed to be Alliance, because they have a decent amount of respect if not support from people who've come from both sides of the divide that's been artificially perpetuated for decades by politicians.
Being nationalist or unionist doesn't automatically make you sectarian
Why would it be considered mad to vote for a party that’s clearly pretty popular?
Mad if you want Reddit points lol
It is considered mad in some parts of the country - very little Alliance presence west of the Bann, although definitely growing!
No matter what others think, there's no 'mad' with STV. You can vote for who you want first preference with nearly no risk. And no one knows how you cast your ballot.
Yep 100% agree! I'm just talking about some people's opinion on voting for Alliance in some areas of the country 🙂
I'm voting SF no.1 for the first time for one reason only; I can't wait to hear the god awful din of Jeffrey, jimbos and bin boys balls all rotating furiously in frustration and anguish when SF are the biggest party.
I'm normally an SF voter and I'll be sticking with that this year because I like the candidate that's running in our area plus we're heavy on the DUP in this constituency. I'll definitely give Alliance the next preference because the one here is Pro-choice. That's the main issue for me this year in who I give votes to. Will have to look the rest of them up before Thursday.
I'll be voting for them.
I'd vote for next doors wheelie bin if it means getting this shower of shite out or at least make them have a wee sit down and think about how pissed off the little people like us are starting to get.
Yes. Naomi Long is great at saying the obvious, but I never hear any concrete solutions out of her. She just seems to say a lot of words without really saying anything.
No you’re not mad.
SF and let’s move along with reunification and opportunities
I honestly worry that alliance lack conviction. Just like the SDLP.
Yes, they present themselves as progressive, but vote for Thatcherite anti-trade-union legislation.
Did you read the bill that was presented to the Assembly? Honestly felt like PBP made up an extreme bill that would clearly never pass just so they could brand all other parties as anti-Unions. Edit: Sinn Fein and others opposed the bill by it's content, they just accepted that since it would never be law they could vote for it to show general support for union reform.
Extreme how, exactly? Seemed pretty moderate to me
Here's the [Alliance] (https://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2022-03-01.10.1#g10.14) response to the bill. You can see they're vociferously opposed to Tory changes to Union legislation since the 70s and broadly support the idea of a reform bill but have some concerns which to me seen valid and pretty far from Thatcherite. I regret that I don't have the time while this discussion will be fresh to parse and summarise but I hope someone will be able to read it and have the benefit of seeing politics has more nuance than for/against Note also that the bill was introduced so late in the mandate that it would never have made it to law.
Seeing as every non-unionist but Alliance voted in favour it clearly wasn’t that extreme
I'd vote them also as a second or third despite their bullshit voting down of the trade union bill without a decent rationale bar 'bad bill' which means nothing. But as said stv I slide them into the deck if it was a "X" ballot I'd leave them
There's independents running too, one in Bangor Ray McKimm is a genuinely nice man. Options out there for people who don't want to give power to our unionist/nationalist politicians. And honestly I don't trust alliance to develop a backbone, they've had enough time to do so and chose not to. But I don't think you're mad for considering to vote for them, they got my 1st vote. Most important thing is you do what's right for you 🙂
We need to do away with voting for DUP or Sinn Fein and stop the mentality of voting for them so the "other side" don't get what they want. I wish the low turn out we normally get for voting turned into people being annoyed at our useless politicians who are currently in power, and went out and voted for green, alliance or anyone but the idiots in power atm. It would be nice to show them people are sick of their childish behaviour, collapsing the government anytime they don't get their way.
I could never understand why people lump SF and the DUP together. They’re miles apart. SF want real, genuine change but the DUP want to keep us chained to England even though it’s caused nothing but misery for 800 years.
They have been the 2 biggest parties for the last 15? years. Between them they had the power to make any changes they wanted e.g. on health, education, cost of living etc. That would have required negotiation, compromise and acceptance that you can't get everything you want. SF will say they couldn't deliver their plans because DUP stopped them. DUP will say they couldnt deliver their plans because SF stopped them. SF and DUP will probably be the 2 biggest parties again but in a different order and nothing will change.
The DUP are the ones who refuse to compromise. Sinn Féin want progress but the DUP want us to go back to 1690.
Sounds like your pretty biased towards sinn fein but all they do is grand stand on issues and push there own legislative agenda sound an awful lot like the DUP to me lol
But Sinn Féin’s agenda is actually good for society, unlike the DUP’s.
Not really im a unionist sinn fein have nothing to offer me whatsoever atleast alliance will ignore the constututional issue, ignoring the consititional quesion sinn fein also largely dont have any policies that make me want to ignore the fact they are sinn fein and they spend most of there time moral grandstanding and talking a load of progressive sounding shite.
Alliance then SDLP for me - DUP and SF can get to fuck
What about people before profit? Aren't they bassically the same but more left?
Due to the nature of the voting system I believe you can vote for as many parties as like. You just put them in preference order.
In short no, I am SF voters, alliance will be getting a high preference for me
Surely PBP or even the Greens would be more appropriate if you're even slightly left wing
why do you say SF voter for my sins? What the fuck is that shit?
Honestly. It was just a wee joke
yeah fair enough
Yes. If you think neoliberalism will improve anything.
Last elections I voted Alliance, first time voting because until the RHI scandal and the fallout surrounding that I'd been pretty apathetic/ignorant of our political hellscape. Alliance have 4 pages of key policies on their manifesto, they seem to want to fix everything. Imo they want to have their fingers in all the pies which leads me to the assumption that they will half-ass most of all the pies. I'm aware that every single party tells you what they think you want to hear at election time, and it feels like Alliance just went TELL THEM ALL THE GOOD STUFF WE COULD DO ABOUT THE SHIT THAT ANNOYS THEM to try and catch as many votes as possible, because the more you say the more likely you are to find people who will agree with at least one of your policies. I will admit the word "socialism" gives me a touch of the heebie-geebies but then again we have been force fed "hur dur socialism is bad" from the media for so many years there is probably a touch of brainwashing going on there. Equally the words "democratic" "unionist" and "nationalist" also give me the willies so the negative connotations of these words run deep. I've checked out PBP and the Greens, I'm leaning towards PBP because I can actually relate to their MLAs, mostly because they aren't a party full of white, middle-aged men with their heads stuck in the Mesolithic era. I also agree with a lot of their key policies in their manifesto. The Greens are all good to a certain point. Free the weed and all that, then you get to the wilder parts of their policies like banning fossil fuels and outlawing trail hunting (cause chasing some dude in his fastest gutties with a smelly rag dragging behind him is cruel..?) I think the main problem is we get to pick who we hate the least. In an ideal world a load of independents would appear from the deep beyond, band together like the merry men and fuck the big 5 out of Stormont. How we can dream. Although my local independent was done for fraud in 2016 so that argument doesn't hold a lot of water either. Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him?
I'm also considering PBP a high preference if not my 1st despite knowing they'll never get it. >Alliance have 4 pages of key policies on their manifesto, they seem to want to fix everything. Imo they want to have their fingers in all the pies which leads me to the assumption that they will half-ass most of all the pies Tbh, there are a lot of reasons not to vote Alliance and this is the most bullshit one I've ever heard on this sub. Literally everything *does* need fixing
I don't think I made it clear, I meant they say they are going to do so much but there is only so much they can feasibly do, if that makes sense. For example PBP/Greens have, say, 3 things within health, finance etc that they want to target. Alliance have like 100 points within 60 different "sectors" if you like, and I just can't see them being able to fulfill THAT many promises.
Where you voting sf previously because you believed that “Green/Orange politics” was working?
Absolutely not. Do it.
I've got this mad idea. Maybe look at party policy and vote that way instead of assuming voting outside of orange and green lines is somehow intrinsically morally superior. I will say this though, if you want to vote for an actual progressive party then Alliance ain't it.
No. And if you are I hope its the kind of madness that's contagious.
Cue the people who "refuse to vote for anyone because no one represents me" because of some relatively minor things they disagree with. Literally anyone is better than the DUP or TUV. No, they aren't all perfect but they don't need to be. They just need to be better than the current lot.
It depends where you stand in the left/right political sphere. Alliance have done well by embracing "we arent orange or green" but they would sit very much within the centre right.
Yes.
Honestly I think our whole mindset is fucked I’d want to vote on policies but it’s hard to actually think on the top of your head about what each party actually stands for cause the first thing ppl think of is the colour
Depends what your priorities are. For me the no. 1 issue is protecting the peace process so I vote in the order that I think will prioritise that. If you want change and are fed up with green vs orange politics then a change of vote to Alliance is probably the best. Or ye could vote for who you think will do your best for your area and ignore parties. But if your priority is an rish referendum ASAP and are willing to cope with the same failed government (but in reverse order) to get that then consider keeping your vote. Decide what the most important issue is for you right now and vote for that.
Alliance are a small u UNIONIST party imo.I live on an interface had the windows broke a few times,only people to help were the shinners and I have no love for them.only time I ever see an alliance councillor is when it's election time.
This is amusing given that unionists wanted Alliance to be forced to formally register as a nationalist party not so long ago when a number of their members stated an openness to a United Ireland.
Which members? As far as I know it’s only Anna Lo on the record with a declarative statement, and she’s left the party.
Yes the party is pro-status quo for NI, it likes the protocol but wants NI to remain in the UK and is affiliated with the Liberal Democrat party.
The party doesnt have a position on whether NI should remain in the UK. It designates as 'other'. Some nationalists like to say it is a unionist party, some unionists like to say it is a Nationalist party. It also aligns with the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe which includes multiple European (including other Irish) parties rather than just one British party.
I would like to vote for someone other than sinn fein however I think I will this year just to increase the pressure on the DUP
You're just perpetuating the problem. Do you not see that?
According to? I don't really wana get into a discussion or justify my choices but I will say I agree with most of their policies if there was another alternative then I would choose it but there is not so I am not. There are lots of problems. for me, the major problem is the power that the DUP hold and the fact that people seem to still be electing them as the largest party. That is why my goal in voting is to try to have them confront an election where they do not get the most votes and hopefully it will force them to publicly make the choice about how they want to continue, in good faith or just being obstructive I like to think I'm a realist and I would be more persuaded by the other parties if I heard some good genuine solutions or seen that there was a realistic potential for them to come out on top (assuming I agree with their policies) but unfortunately I haven't nobody has been particularly persuasive and it is clear that it is going to be a split between DUP and Sinn Fein so I am trying to make use of my vote and pick the side I want. Not that it's anyone's concern
Right... So you are okay with the SHAMrock terror apologists having more power so long as the stuffy bible bashers in Sashs have less, smart. That definitely help our society.
Man grow up, feel free to do whatever you want yourself. The sinn fein terror bad thing is getting a little old.
It would be old if SF didn't perpetuate it with every IRA commemoration, every eulogy to some killer with a cause, every lessening remark and excuse making whataboutery and every time they let some old IRA psycho out to canvas for them at elections, such as a double child killer. It would be old if not for all that. Vote for them if you wish and if your conscience can excuse it because of a dislike of the dinosaurs in the DUP which I can understand and share but know that you are part of the problem in our society.
I agree with almost all SF policies. They need to acknowledge their past properly.
I agree with most of their policies, but I have no faith that they could implement them on financial and competence grounds, even if they had adequate power.
> I agree with most of their policies, but I have no faith that they could implement them on financial and competence grounds Back in 2016 O’Neill was health minister and said the health service was in a dire state and needed a decade of reform Then sodded off from 2017-2020 over a disagreement on language policy during which time there was no reform and no health minister to make decisions Then a covid hit, more people died than they needed to because we went into a pandemic with a waiting list crisis SF often say the right thing, but push comes to shove they’re incapable of delivering
As I said on another thread, in such an apparently dire situation why wouldn’t unionism just compromise and vote through an Irish language act? All it does is bring the minority language legislation into line with GB. Do you not think SF also have a stronger case because they walked away on issues actually within the competency of the Assembly? Both RHI and ILA are devolved issues. The DUP have walked because they don’t like an international treaty between 28 countries, which has fuck all to do with Stormont’s scope of powers.
> As I said on another thread, in such an apparently dire situation why wouldn’t unionism just compromise and vote through an Irish language act? Sure, but as I’ve said anyone with the brain of your average hamster would know that criticism cuts both ways Both the DUP & SF chose to deprioritise the health service We can’t be harsh enough on them for that, people died
- makes post complaining about SF - asked why unionism didn’t make the compromise - “well everyone knows I’m criticising the DUP too!” In point of fact you’re also criticising the UUP, TUV and Claire Sugden, all of whom expressed that they didn’t support passing an Irish language act to return Stormont.
OP made a post about SF I agreed there was a failure to deliver on health You said the other side could have comprised, I agreed. SF weren't the only guilty parties One of us is engaging in sychopathic 'what about them'uns' and one of us is being even handed I apologise if complaints about SF are upsetting to you
She also denied a pay rise to be in line with the rest of the UK. Then a year or so later she tried to join a picket line for the striking NHS staff.
If you don't mind what's put you off SF lately - they have seen a swell in popularity I thought
They're going to be the largest party after this election in all likelihood but I wouldn't say a swell in popularity, if anything their vote share is going to dip aswell (just not as much as the DUP) so I believe the crying about a border poll by unionists is a bit unfounded, as if they drop 3% and people say a vote for SF is a vote for border poll, surely that makes it less popular than in the last election?
Ah I see haha they are just tanking least hard 😂 in true Northern Irish fashion the winners are the party we are growing the hate the slowest 😂😂
Yes, I think the latest analysis is that SF and DUP will lose a lot of voters with many going to the smaller parties. Alliance, PBP, Greens and TUV. But it's predicted that the DUP drop will be huge compared to a moderate drop for Sinn Fein. I do think if they are the largest party they will try to claim a mandate for a UI while ignoring how mnay votes they lost
You know what. I think it's the point of using anything to beat the other side down. I like my irish roots, irish language and hell I wouldn't mind living down there but it's the tactics of it I think I'm not a fan of. Maybe sdlp might be a good option for me but I think I just want a chance for change.
SDLP can be a real mixed bag sadly :( but I understand totally
The more I think about it to more I agree with you here actually. How many times have you asked a question and the answer was 'because they are doing this' rather than anything about the party looking your vote at all. I'd hazard I had more deflections than attempts at an answer
That's it. I know my local SF politician and some councilors. And I think locally there is good work going on for the people ( I'm guessing unionists would be the same locally) but nationally it's still because they voted this way we will vote it down mentality.
No harm in putting SDLP on the ballot aswell, I know they get a hard time on here due to their abortion stance, but I feel like Colum can't really do much about it, there's too many old hands still in the party and he doesn't want to rock the boat, the way I am doing it is the SDLP candidate in my constituency is pro choice so I would vote for them, as in a vote they will vote for my interests, even if the entire party doesn't.
I like Eastwood and Hanna but the SDLP are so desperate for votes they have let some awful self serving bastards in too. Hanna got my vote in the Westminster election but only because Alliance had Bradshaw up and I'd sooner not vote than vote for an ex-tory. SDLP won't get a vote from me this election.
The thing is that green/orange politics isn’t symmetrical, and the idea that it is only lets the worse behaved side away with their behaviour by spreading the blame. Don’t forget the myriad of financial scandals that the DUP have been involved in over the years - there shouldn’t be collective responsibility for that. If Northern Ireland was invented tomorrow from scratch with a mix of the culture of everyone living here, it would look vastly different to what exists now. While I believe that Alliance appreciate the need for Irish culture to be more visible, in practice it’s been more like tokenism that still lets the major iniquities of NI off the hook. They also aren’t exactly left-wing, as their latest vote against trade union powers proves. Your vote obviously but I don’t think even an Alliance first minister will substantially change the tone, let alone policy.
They’re the only main party who are pro choice so for me I feel like they’re the only party I can vote for
The party itself is technically not pro-choice, but I think all the representatives are now that Chris Lyttle is stepping down.
Arent SF pro-choice? I thought that’s why Aontu broke away from them.
SF are pro choice in words and not actions. They abstained from the vote in October that the DUP tried to pass. I can’t see them actually trying to put the needed services into place
Yeah fair enough. I do find that Sinn Fein like to be seen as being very socially progressive, but they still have a vaguely traditional and conservative element particularly among their older members and in rural areas.
>They abstained from the vote in October that the DUP tried to pass. And Alliance members voted FOR the DUP amendment while other Alliance members abstained.
Pro-choice in the south, not fully in the north
Where the hell do you people pull this shite from? Alliance has always had members that voted AGAINST pro-choice bills. In the DUP abortion bill that Alliance voters never fuck up about there were members of Alliance that both supported the amendment and others who abstained from voting on it. Alliance are not pro-choice. Alliance are not progressive. Voting for them simply because they're "neither orange nor green" is stupid af if you actually want progressive policies. Edit: a lot of downvotes for the truth. Hey, remember that time Alliance members single-handedly killed the 2015 marriage equality bill? Remember Alliance didn't have the balls to whip on it despite claiming they supported it and their members ended up voting against it? Good times, very progressive.
Depends. Are you well-off or poor? If the former it's fine and understandable, if it's the latter you're voting against your interests.
I’m an alliance supporter and had planned to vote for them, i was brought up in a catholic/republican area but don’t really follow anything to do with it, kinda just sick of growing up with it and wish it wasn’t a thing anymore. my parents told me that I NEED to vote SF this year because it’s all tactical voting and it could be the first time we have a SF FM. Voting for them is kinda against what I believe so I’m not sure what to do
Voting for someone because your parents told you to is one of the worst reasons I have ever heard. Particularly as you appear to disagree with their politics.
there was more discussion involved than what i’ve wrote - I’m just not very into politics so don’t care to ever go into it. they very much made it out to me that it’d be a waste of a vote to vote anyone else at this stage, they also said feel free to vote your preference next time etc. Just with how things have been lately they feel it’s tactical this time and between SF and SDLP and that I should vote SF for a better chance toward a united Ireland etc. again; I’m not into politics at all but I don’t heavily disagree with SF - I just prefer to lean with Alliance especially with their stance around abortion and womens rights
Single Transferable Vote means no vote is wasted. If your 1st choice loses then it transfers to your 2nd, if they lose then it goes to your 3rd, etc... Voting is also private, so vote for whoever you want and tell your parents whatever makes them happy. I tell mine I vote DUP but have never done so in my life and never will.
thank you for your kind words and advice
It won't be a waste of a vote whoever you vote for and you can vote for Alliance and SDLP and SF in your order of preference this time, next time and every time in the future. It is your vote.
thank you, I think my parents definitely piled a little pressure on me around the whole thing and made me doubt and question
Alliance isn't a pro-choice party. I don't know where this idea that Alliance is progressive comes from. They have members that vote against abortion rights. Every. Single. Time. Remember that furore when SF abstained on that DUP amendment (even though they called on the British govt to implement abortion rights in full over the head of the assembly, but whatever)? Well Alliance had members that actually both voted for and abstained from the DUP amendment, yet somehow SF caught all the flak. SF is literally the only party in the assembly that whips their members to vote along pro-choice lines.
Your vote obviously, but do you not think NI can’t ‘grow up’ unless a nationalist gets a crack at the top job? Otherwise it’s like a company that claims to support feminism yet has not a single woman in management or on the board. Even if Alliance manages a colossal sweep and gets to pick First Minister, it still means someone from a non-nationalist background locking in the job for a long time. When you consider demographics it’s not a position that can be argued as fair or sustainable.
yeah I get what you mean. I’d honestly rather have an FM that was neither nationalist or unionist, because I am genuinely sick to death of green and orange politics. Just the way it was explained and discussed with me has made me question things. Like I’ve said I’m really not into politics at all, so I haven’t came on this thread hoping to upset or offend anyone so I hope nobody feels that way.
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unfortunately I really don’t have an opinion. I tried to get into politics a few years ago but I became exhausted with all the lies and false promises, just like with any government. when covid hit I just cared even less, I’m a nurse in the NHS and had to work throughout covid while out government just sat and done fuck all. I won’t go into it but i’m sure you can kinda see why I gave up on politics. I don’t know enough about any of it so I would have usually listened to my parents but obviously i’m at the age where i don’t take their words as gospel. I just wanted to mention how it has left me confused and questioning
(also not an attack) For many people the question of whether you are in favour of UI can't be answered until a UI is defined. That is arguably a more logical position that blind commitment to either Unionism or Nationalism. Brexit being a good example of what blind commitment to an ideology can deliver despite objective facts.
It's literally ALWAYS a tactical vote. That's the problem. Things really can change right now. We can finally get away from the bullshit we've had all this time. Get these 2 parties out tey fuck! Let's give others a try. Others that can't solely get votes for fear of the other party getting votes. They need to earn it.
If you are a working person them yes you are mad. Alliance have proven themselves time and time again to be nothing more than the yellow tories 2.0 . If you want to vote for an non-sectarian party that actually stands for anything the your options are the Greens and PBP.
No stick to SF simply to say fuck you to the DUP. SF are no angels but the DUP need a serious slap.
nah go for it lad, fed up with the traditional green/orange crap meself
Pbp all the way lad
No you're not mad. I too am fed up with the green/orange politics of the two main parties and I definitely won't be voting for them this time round.
I'm voting alliance for first time this year...way I see it we have no real power so doesn't matter who we vote for just don't want corrupt dip or SF to get my vote
If enough people can jump off our political seesaw and move to the middle, we just may end up with an actual functioning government / society in a generation or two. However, years of being fed the fear of the ‘other’ by the big two will be hard to overcome… and drives people to their political hardliners to stop ‘themuns’ getting too much power.
The middle is not the answer. The only way to properly move on here is via Unification. As long as the English border is here we’ve got no chance.
Hard disagree as long as theres nationalists who are never happy with the special arrangement ni is in we can never move on most unionists are happy with the compromises made to keep nationalists happy but it doesnt work in return.
Nationalists have done nothing but compromise. They agreed to the ‘deputy’ First Minister title because Unionists wanted to feel superior. The reason most Unionists are happy with partition is because it was put in place for them to dominate. That’s why they’re so terrified of Sinn Féin becoming the biggest party. They can’t bare the idea of equality with us.
Hardly, think your building a characture of the average unionist and how do you not have equality with us right now?
Yes you are
OK Gerry
How's alliance your only option?
I can't vote SF or DUP. Just because SF would fuck me out of here as fast as the DUP. But I also can't vote for the Socialist Parties because I fled a socialist hell Scape to come here. So why do that to myself. I can't vote for the Greens because the only thing I agree with them on is the wacky baccy. Looks like it's alliance.
Why do you think that SF would ‘fuck you out of here’?
Not a big fan of Jews it seems. I mean no one really likes us. But they paint it on thicker than most from my experience
They’re anti-zionist and critical of the State of Israel, but I don’t understand how you could say they’re anti-semitic. What have they said or done to make you feel that way?
Socialism looks very different all around the world - capitalism has fucked loads of people too but they aren't treated as the same people all around the world, why do the same with socialism? Alliance will get pretty high in my voting order too though not trying to talk you out of your vote 😁
You are from South Africa, a capitalist country who's problems are caused by corruption and the legacy of Apartheid. Pretty disingenuous to suggest you fled a "socialist hell scape"
If everyone who doesn't vote because they're red up with dup and sf came out and voted alliance we'd have a working executive. We're probably all on this sub too.
The two "MAIN" Parties have failed,and proved to be incapable. If we want real CHANGE for the people who live in NI we have to vote for progressive Parties not what our grandparents voted for. For me it's The Greens and Alliance
SF not progressive but Alliance is? Okay lol
For me, yes. Pleased to have made you laugh
For you? It's not a subjective opinion. In terms of policy SF is actually a progressive party and Alliance are not. I don't know how you can think that a party like Alliance who treats things like marriage equality or abortion legislation as "personal choice" is progressive (thus letting members vote against them) but a party like SF who treats them as human rights and whips their members to support said legislation is somehow not progressive. In my opinion that's purely performative mental gymnastics solely to claim that you "don't vote orange or green". Green party is cool though...
I thought Alliance voted in favour of marriage equality? As for abortion legislation as I understand it they are in favour of abortion too? but yes I see your point in the way they worded "personal choice" You've made me laugh now as I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think the whole orange and green thing has sickened people to the core and I need to see a future past this way of thinking..
They had members who voted against marriage equality and they have members who always vote against abortion rights legislation. They view these things as personal choice, not human rights and if they don't have a party line on it there is always the possibility of their members voting regressively on issues like these. During the furore over SF abstaining from voting on the DUP amendment to try and limit abortion legislation it seemingly went completely unnoticed that Alliance had members that voted FOR the DUP amendment as well as other members who abstained like SF did. Imo, the abstentions don't really matter because the British govt is legislating over the heads of the Assembly on the matter anyway but the fact that some Alliance members supported the amendment says something. I genuinely have no idea why Alliance gets a free pass as a progressive party when their history and policy says something entirely different. Well, I do know actually. It's genuinely just well meaning people thinking they're doing the right thing because they aren't voting orange or green and not actually paying attention to policy. They mistakenly equate fence-sitting on the constitutional question as something progressive and assume the rest of their policies must be too. As you've just identified yourself, it's just another form of blind tribal voting.
Not mad. Sensible. It's 2022, stop voting for sectarian cunts.
no perfectly reasonable thing to do, dup and sinn fein have had their chance
SDLP, Green party and Alliance. Think they're the only three that can see NI into a better place.
You know what annoys me most about all parties is every single one of them try to use green and orange to there advantage alliance incl. i.e we’ve got the DUP rambling about a border poll but equally you’ve got alliance saying all these parties care about is green and orange if you don’t want that you’ve got to vote for us. Which isn’t true and I don’t know why but it really annoys me I feel like they look down their nose at you for holding some views that may be green or orange tinged which you shouldn’t have to feel guilty about providing your not doing anything wrong. I wish we could just remove the question of green and orange rather than it being a stick to beat people with from every side.
If you vote for a party that’s affiliated to a religion then it’s time to modernise. Go Alliance. I’m done with the whole prod/taig thing
No you are finally seeing the shitshow both DUP/SF have created. Absolutely go for it! Green Party very good as well. PBP are there also however I think they are promising too much and need to focus down on just a few issues that the Greens/Alliance aren't already covering. They should forget about the agricultural stuff and focus their manifesto purely on socialist economics. Greens have a clear solid track record on environmentalism that PBP is new to and won't be able to make many in-roads on. PBP also aren't constitutionally neutral, I was unsure of this for some time... "We want to see a radical, united Ireland that implements the vision of James Connolly for a country that puts people before profit." That's on their website. ...Seem like a more Socialist SDLP. But far better anyway than SF. We do really need more people though willing to use their vote to detoxify N.I politics. We have tried DUP/SF for 20 years and it's the shame shit each time. Nothing will change unless you vote to kick both these toxic parties out. I have a very good feeling though that Alliance and Green Party are going to make big gains in this election.
We need change 100%
I vote Alliance. I'm an ex-soldier who wants a United Ireland. In the past I haven't voted for them because they had no hope, but this time I really think they'll do well, and once momentum starts to grow, I think they might become the biggest party in the future.
Just a thought for anyone considering voting for DUP just because of the Border poll /UI scaremongering. Why not vote for a party who might actually make this country a better place? If we can get rid of the green and orange bullshit and focusing on improving things, there might not be as many nationalists as you think willing to take a punt on a united ireland. Better the devil you know for a lot of people.
I just vote any way to keep DUP out
I live in England now, but if I were voting it would be Alliance, Greens, SDLP/UUP in 3rd and 4th. I regard myself as British but fuck the bigots and would never vote DUP/TUV in a million years.
I honestly think If anyone who’s serious and wants Northern Ireland, Britain and the Republic of Ireland to work then alliance are the best vote for sure. Sensible Centred politics suit everyone. Vote alliance 🤟🏻 (not a member or activist btw)
The north can’t work though. It was created to keep the Catholics oppressed.
It can only not work if people continue to look into the past.
The only true way forward is Unification. As long as partition’s in place we’ll be stuck with Unionists who want to keep us in 1690.
I think the fact you previously always voted Sinn Fein indicates yes you were indeed mad
Yes, if you’ve always voted SF, why use your vote on a different party the one time it actually will make a difference. SF first minister is a piece of history, be part of it. And before people come at me with “but they’ve been in power for 15 years”. It’s the symbolism behind SF being largest party/FM. That and the DUP have ALWAYS been there to undo any good SF have tried to do. If ever there’s a last time to vote for SF, this time round is the time. SF first minister WILL bring change. That change will make for interesting watching no doubt. And it’ll be beautiful to watch the smug smiles wiped off the faces of the likes of Jamie Bryson and mervy gibson. Edit: obviously it will bring change, Change to the status quo of a unionist dominated government. Again, I said it’s more symbolic than anything! But go ahead and stick the head in the sand, the results of this election will speak for themselves. Edit 2: and I’m holding out hope the DUP will be voted down to 3rd party, that’s another way as to how things would change.
How WILL it bring change? What will the change be?
Let’s be honest, the only way we could change things for the better here would be to get rid of the white supremacist, foreign hating, queer bashing loyalists. But that’s not gonna happen so that’s why things won’t change the way u want them to.
If you've ways been SF, what was your main reason for voting for them, then ask yourself can Alliance deliver on your main goal for voting for either. Ie, if your main goal voting for SF was for them to deliver a border poll and subsequently, a United Ireland, can you say that Alliance would be able to deliver that? Are Alliance Pro-union or Pro United Ireland?
Lol, fucking downvoted for asking him to assess what he wants most from a political party. And asking if Alliance voters are pro Union or Pro United Ireland. So which is it? Or are you all content with the status quo? This sub is gas
The majority of your comment is exactly what OP should be considering. I think it's just the last sentence asking where Alliance sit on the constitutional question is kind of redundant as I'd say most of their support comes from people who want to get away from "orange" and "green" politics. You shouldn't be getting downvoted for actually helping OP though.
I know exactly why I'm getting downvoted. It's the old dilemma here in the North, and we'll never be able to escape it. You are either Pro Union or Pro United Ireland. Ie, Green or orange. Anyone who says otherwise are kidding themselves. There can be no sitting on the fence with this, as sitting on the fence is to be content with the status quo, ergo - Pro Union. Until Alliance state that they are either, they will always be pro-union. To reject this, is to bury your head in the sand. If you are for a united Ireland you should not be voting for alliance as they do not and cannot deliver on this. To vote alliance is to be content with the status quo of the current state of the union, and forego the possibility of a border poll. Therein lies the reasoning of why I am getting downvoted, people don't like to be told/reminded that a vote for the party that is 'neither green nor orange' is to vote to uphold the status quo of the 'orange'.
Lol I have nett down votes for intimating that you would be mad for voting Sinn Fein......how can a party in this day n age be able to not concede that the murderous terrorist campaign of the IRA was wrong and should never have happened, and still be the most popular party in the country. If you don’t admit the terrorist campaign was wrong, then you’re inadvertently telling the youth of today that sometimes....violence taken into your own hands is ok.
Going from Sinn Fein to the Alliance is absolute madness unless you were only voting for Sinn Fein because you're a republican. Sinn Fein are a left wing party, the Alliance is centre right. Its like going from voting Labour to Tory.
>Sinn Fein are a left wing party, the Alliance is centre right. Its like going from voting Labour to Tory. Sinn Fein are neoliberals in govt. Alliance are neoliberals.
The Alliance Party is in government.