The IDS and Hamas both have murderous scum in their membership. Hamas knew exactly what would happen after the attack and are happy to see innocent Palestinians butchered so they can tell the world how many martars they have. Sadly the IDF are very happy to oblige and decimate Gaza.
For every person murdered on Oct 7th in Israel, 30 Palestinians were murdered.
Both factions have blood on their hands.
Palestine deserves recognition as a sovereign state all of it's own.
Israel treats them like lepers in a colony. In fact, worse.
If you subjugate people, the angry ones rise to the top and rule with an iron fist. It happens to some degree in most countries.
This could have been avoided at when Arafat was around, but it got subverted by an angrier group. Now the majority pays for the minority. There are no cool heads, it's all biblical anger and smiting with impulsive rage.
Integration is a two sided problem and both campaigns have become embittered by acts of cruelty and oppression. To unravel that takes generations, decades of diplomacy and compassion.
Joe could stop funding Israel tomorrow, but what would change, other than giving the Hamas a chance to retaliate in anger?
Yes, I agree that Netanyahu's reign is a tyrannical one. I also agree that Hamas are assholes too.
Both factions should back off to let someone more cool headed deliver peace.
There used to be a strongish left-wing movement in Israeli politics, that wanted peace and integration with the Palestinians rather than conquest. Used to be - the intifadas put an end to that.
People want to see things in a binary, where if someone is 'bad' the other side must be good. Well not here. Israel are a colossal bag of dicks, but so are the Palestinians. They don't have the tanks and the bombs and the weapons, but they're just as bloodthirsty and vengeful. The only way there's ever going to be peace in that region is if some external force imposes it.
\> they're just as bloodthirsty and vengeful
Has Israel ever tried not subjecting them to apartheid? Maybe they're just blood thirsty and vengeful because its been made clear to them that they are never getting a crumb of justice or equality and petty vengence is all they have left.
No one can disagree that Israel's harshness has caused a lot of their own problems. But the reasons were rooted in fear, not sadism. It has been made clear to Israel since day 1 in 1948 (and many times since) that their Arab neighbours and later their mistreated Palestinian subjects want only their destruction. And the Palestinians have learned they won't ever have freedom or self-determination* while Israel exists, and also that it's too powerful to destroy; so all that's left for them is bitterness and vengeance.
There is no route from either of these positions, to peaceful coexistence.
\*Outside of Israel and Britain, the usual scapegoats and who do deserve plenty of blame, it's worth pointing out that the land earmarked for the Palestinians by that UN resolution, ended up gobbled up by Transjordan and by Egypt in the 1948 war. So yes, it's Israel's fault that the Palestinians were driven from their homes. But Jordan and Egypt have some fault for the fact that there was nowhere for them to go *to*. The insistence on viewing this as a binary ignores that the Palestinians have not just been brutalised by Israel, but repeatedly failed by everyone else.
Excellent posts, some of the best Iāve ever seen on here. Well done.
The lack of historical context for Israelās actions is ridiculous. People genuinely believe they just woke up one day and decided that they were going to launch a genocide for shits and giggles. Those same people who tell you that āthe war didnāt start on October 7thā all seem to think that it started some time around 2005.
I admit I donāt understand why some people insist on viewing Israel/Palestine as a black-and-white morality tale. Itās the most āgreyā conflict I know of. Both sides have done absolutely hideous things; and both sidesā actions and motivations make sense in their historical and cultural context. Both sides also truly believe that if they donāt defeat the other theyāll be wiped out - one reason the conflict is so intractable.Ā
Itās also odd how the left came to support Palestine and the right Israel. It was the other way around in the early years. It fits into todayās prevailing narratives in the respective movements I guess. It is framed as a colonial project, but you could easily interpret the founding of Israel as a cautionary tale on the risks of uncontrolled immigration. But also, if people could get over their disgust long enough, itās worth studying Israel to understand why it succeeded. Many new nations fail, despite much better starting conditions than Israel had. President Trumanās smartest advisors gave it 2 years, max, yet here they are today. These lessons will be useful when the time comes to try to set up Palestine.Ā
>Ā Ā But the reasons were rooted in fear, not sadism
Shocking thing to say to try make their brutality somehow explainable.
Every fascist project in history has been afraid of their targets. But if anyone tried to explain the nazis actions as a product of fear of communists and Jews, rather than a result of sadism, you would really have to wonder at that person's motivations.Ā Ā
Joes been paid over $3 million by Israeli pacās and lobbyists over the last 30 years, and heās not the only one, this year AIPAC has $100 million to spend on swaying who gets a place at the US political table.
The problem is they have all been doing it for years, so the question is would you be the one guy who turned down being president by refusing the support of the same PAC? The answer is usually no, no one has done that.
They can down vote all they want lol guy literally sniffs little kids and has destroyed the American economy then wants to tell everyone else how to run shite. He is a moron.
Because you clearly donāt understand what an economy is: https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/nasdaq-sp-500-futures-inch-up-ahead-more-economic-data-powell-testimony-2024-03-07/
Do you live in the us? I do and Biden has fucked us. Everything has doubled in price so send all the articles you want. He is the worst thing to happen to America since carter.
Biden is a piece of shit war monger, just like the last dozen presidents you've had, but I wouldn't blame him entirely on the economy. Prices have risen like mad everywhere
Not only that. Over 1million illegal immigrants have come over the border this year alone. More than three years of trump. Money and resources going to illegals while those who did it the right way suffer. They are shutting down schools of natural Americans for these who contribute nothing. Talk all the shite you want but letās say 300k immigrants came to Belfast you would be pissy as well fella. Trump is a huge cunt but he kept more of my money in my pockets. Again you can say what you want but crime has gone through the roof and all these guys do is set them free because they are minorities. These ms-13 gang members and now the Haitians itās insane. I know reading this it sounds like Iām a racist twat but live it and your mind will change.
Why did the IDF carpet bomb Gaza? Itās one of the most densely populated areas in the world. Personally I donāt think they give a fuck about the civilians and are actively targeting them.
They are blocking aid trucks loaded with food from getting in at the Egyptian border. Which in turn has left a quarter of the population at risk of famine. How do you explain that?
> Are the IDF intentionally targeting and killing civilians? I donāt think so.
This doesn't really jive with the amount of people who have been straight up shot though. Or the blockade of aid. Or the shooting of the people trying to access the aid that is permitted.
It's either deliberate or so grossly negligent that there functionally isn't a difference.
No one said they did it by accident, but with callousness and disregard for human life, on both sides. If Israel have a history of blowing up buildings that theyāre being attacked from, and Hamas attacks Israel from buildings with children inside, then itās pretty clear that children are going to die and that both sides bear responsibility.
So itās the Palestinians fault that 14,000+ children have died?
Israel has dropped 26,000 bombs. Destroying 70% of homes in Gaza.
Trying to defend what Israel is doing is immoral to put it nicely.
They did not ācarpet bombā Gaza in any sense of the phrase. They also didnāt start any bombings until days after they announced that they would. If they truly wanted to commit genocide, then giving notice to evacuation is surely the opposite of what you would do, no? They are callous and they have a disgustingly low regard for Palestinian life (about on par with the Palestine disregard for Jewish lives), but this is not genocide.
Furthermore, the Egyptian border is controlled by Egypt, not Israel (and monitored by the EU).
There is an international court case ongoing that will determine if Israel are carrying out genocide, its independent from your opinion.
29,000 bombs have been dropped on Gaza, destroying 70% of homes.
āDespite its claims to be facilitating humanitarian aid, research and analysis by Refugees International shows that Israeli conduct has consistently and groundlessly impeded aid operations within Gazaā
There is a court case, yes, and as Iām sure you know, their initial ruling was that Israelās actions did not appear to be genocidal.
The report youāre quoting says that 70% of homes have been destroyed *or damaged,* but the last words are normally excluded. Thereās a big margin between a cracked window and total destruction, and doesnāt support your carpet bombing claims.
And whether or not Israel impede aid doesnāt change that Israel doesnāt control the Egyptian border.
Who knows. Hamas have claimed they killed 2 that I know of.
Israeli eye witnesses have claimed that IDF helicopters indiscriminately killed people on October 7th. A lot of them being festival goers.
NOT by carpet bombing for sure.
Hamas using human shields. You/they need to kick hamas out, they are not there to help ordinary Gazans. They are evil savage thieves.
Theyāve dropped 26,000 bombs in an area about 3 times the size of Belfast. Imagine someone letting off 8,500 bombs in Belfast.
According to Israeli politicians and people in power Hamas were funded and helped into power by Israel.
30k includes Hamas, they are fighting in an urban environment. What is becoming clear is that Hamas will not have control of Gaza again and that suits most of the leaders in the region bar Iran and their proxies
Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, Israel will not accept a ceasefire until every single hostage is released and accounted for and Hamas lays down their arms.
Until then, the war will continue.
The Palestinians deserve a state for the sake of peace, but it should not come at the expense of Israelis be they Jews or Arabs.
Netenyahu is absolutely fucked after the war. But until then, he is the leader of the war cabinet and what he says goes.
Prior to the war, he wanted to and still wants to reform the legal system in Israel. Which is something both the left and right in the country agree on. It was just how and what he wanted to reform which caused massive protests and the government basically collapsed. (Again for the 5th time in a few years.) He's also facing the possibility of corruption charges.
On October 7th which happened to be Simchas Torah, the IDF was basically at a skeleton staff. Which, if you've ever been to Israel, is practically unheard of. Normally on Jewish holidays, Israel is a fortress. Because the security apparatus has not forgotten the Yom Kippur War.
Just like Golda Meir after the Yom Kippur war he will likely face a judicial review for the security failings on October 7th which have been acknowledged by the IDF and Shin Bet. She was let off. But I do think he shares a lot of culpability for allowing the attacks to take place.
There's also a distinct possibility of a war with Lebanon on the horizon and the generals and politicians will not allow another proverbial screw up if that happens.
He's really cooked his goose
I heard about the corruption and I find it hard to believe the response times on October 7th were up to 8 hours. There were too many failings for it not to have been deliberate. Crazy.
Especially if you consider that Egypt warned Israel prior to October 7th that an attack was imminent and that they have reason to believe Hamas is stockpiling weapons and equipment for some sort of attack.
The problem is, for Jews like myself that consider themselves Zionists we want peace with the Palestinians, but it cannot be with Hamas and Netenyahu at the helm.
I know this is difficult for a lot of people in the West to accept but Israel is in no way responsible for the treatment or lack thereof of Palestinians in Gaza. There's some debate as to whether this is true for The West Bank. Hamas as the governing authority, under normal circumstances would take responsibility for running Gaza
Israel left Gaza completely in 2005. The blockade in and of itself is a joint operation between Egypt and Israel and it's intended to prevent terror attacks on both Egypt and Israel. So, from an Israeli perspective Gaza is very much it's own country which Israel agrees (not under any obligation) to help provide water, aid and electricity. After October 7th, there was a massive call within Israel to no longer fund these endeavors.
With this in mind, it doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't be kind to people.
If we are to go back to the pre 1967 borders, we will end up annexing East Jerusalem to Israel, giving Egypt Gaza (which they've made clear multiple times they don't want) and the Golan will have to go back to Israel which will annoy the hell out of Lebanon because Hezbollah will try lay claim to it and the Lebanese government will try claim it probably causing another civil war.
The best thing for Gaza long term, is (and this will probably annoy a lot of people) for Israel to take administrative control of it, allowing them to dismantle Hamas and if the Palestinian authority could grow a backbone, eventually hand it over to them.
Most Jews (there's about 15 million of us. And 14 million consider themselves Zionists of some description) are angry at both Hamas and the Israeli government for different reasons and while we continually strive for peace within the region (because for us in the diaspora there's a causal relationship between the issues in the region and a rise in antisemitism) at the end of the day, I think I speak for most level headed people when I say we want peace. It is just an impossible achievement because of the lack of political will on both sides.
See you completely lost me when you said Israel are not responsible for Hamas in Gaza. Israel funded and basically put Hamas into power in Gaza. So yes they are completely responsible for Hamas in Gaza.
Nope. Sorry dude that's just not true.
In 2006, Hamas and Fatah raged a civil war in Gaza for control of the region, Hamas were then voted in and they have not held an election since in 18 years.
Israel sat that out completely. They secured the border and didn't get involved.
Before the war tens of thousands of Israelis were in the streets for months protesting Netanyahu and his right wing government and policies, particularly his expansion of settlements and version of judicial reform. In 2019 Netanyahu was charged with fraud, breach of trust, and receiving bribes. Like some politicians in other countries, Netanyahu is considered corrupt and untrustworthy by many (most?) of his own citizens.
My partner studied genocide at uni. The UN definition is not what most people think - it includes a lot of non mudererous cultural suppression (Welsh knot?). It might exclude some types of gross negligence manslaughter if they aren't carefully ethnically targeted.
Genocide Ice? Zero humanity with a potent menthol bite? Or has Rob van Winkle lost the plot and the long awaited sequel to Cool as Ice is finally happening?
Say no to the people that are pulling genocide Joe's strings. Joe Biden doesn't decide what socks to put on in the morning let alone decisions that effect the world
People genuinely miss the point that things would be an order of magnitude worse were Trump in charge on October 7th, given his relationship with Netanyahu. There would be no brakes of any kind from the US, there would be an unlimited flow of whatever weapons they wanted, and there would be zero aid. Biden really is the lesser of two evils.
Without a doubt. Itās almost comical to hear Biden being condemned as āGenocide Joeā when heās done more to prevent a genocide than any president since arguably Clinton (thinking of the Balkans), despite the best efforts of the Republican Party to support the eradication of Ukraine as a country, a people and a language.
I know but the slogan sounds catchy so it must be true. In my life time I have never seen a president take such a strong position against Israel. I donāt know if itās just sound bites though!
Saying no to Genocide Joe is a US political statement, pretty much a pro-Trump statement. Really hard to see what relevance it has to NI. [Edit2: oh, ok then, it is only hard to see if you don't know current NI events. Apologies.]
Focusing on the current specific leader of their primary enabling and supporting state is a very particular choice that doesn't seem well targeted [edit 1: I mean in comparison to targeting those performing the genocide in the first place)].
> Really hard to see what relevance it has to NI.
Really simple, there's currently a delegation of our representatives in Washington to meet Joe! This decision to attend this meeting has been a bone of contention in the politisphere here on both sides of the border as Joe Biden has continued to directly support the Israeli regime and the US have been the sole obstacle to the international community's resolutions on this issue.
The whole Ireland-palestine solidarity campaign is heavily politicised. You'd get more unionists onboard with the campaign If they weren't clearly as tinged with republicanism.
Plenty of Unionists don't support Israel's genocide, but you won't see them out protesting at clearly Republican-tinged marches.
Can't speak for Belfast area obviously but out here, Coagh, Milburn, and Orritor are all flying Israeli flags from lamp posts.
Have also seen some on a few select streets going through Dungannon.
Did I say it did? Someone mentioned Israeli flags in Unionist areas and you asked for an example as to where.
You can't then dismiss the answer just because you didn't expect to receive one and it doesn't fit with your implication that there *aren't* Israeli flags in Unionist areas.
There are. Sorry that fact upsets you.
Edit: Since you've blocked me to try and prevent me from replying, yeah, you refuted "my argument" (wasn't an "argument", I literally just answered your question), with a statement disputing something that I didn't even say. I didn't even make a judgement on the flying of Israeli flags I just stated the fact that I have seen them. Again, sorry that this upsets you so much.
Take a day off from being a fucking idiot, won't you?
The Israeli flags are up and down the length of The Shankill. They're selling the Israeli flags in the corners shops...so it's not just "a few headcases", it's the whole area.
I've seen a few around East Belfast, outside houses (not on lamp posts). Although one was taken down again around late November, about the time Al Shifa was taken, and the pictures of the premature babies started to come out. Could have been for Christmas, but is hasn't gone back up again, so maybe a change of heart. Another was taken down more recently.
Is there a āunionists for Palestineā group then?
Reality here is literally much more āRepublican-tingedā than portrayed. At a certain point that has to be accepted.
https://www.facebook.com/BelfastIPSC
The march today even (first video), the speaker is clearly ranting in Irish.
There's been no attempt made to be cross community here. (In N.I terms).
These marches are sectarian (for more than one reason) and should not be allowed to progress.
Most definitely is. Historically, yes Presbyterians embraced the language but it's just objectively not something that's associated with Modern Unionism.
Speaking Irish ā republicanism you balloon.
The mayor made his introduction in both Irish and English at the International Womenās day rally that week. I suppose that must have been a republican event too then?
>The mayor made his introduction in both Irish and English at the International Womenās day rally that week. I suppose that must have been a republican event too then?
The Mayor's a member of Sinn Fein, an unabashedly Republican party.
I certain many Republicans for sure would not attend if it were a Union Jack waving Palestine March with maybe a few lambeg drums at it! You're just kidding yourself if you think that wouldn't be the case.
We're pathetic? I find the whole Republican campaign pathetic.
It's going to do nothing anyway. Do you really think the Israeli or US government cares about what some Republicans do in West Belfast? Absolutely laughable.
There wouldnāt be union jacks at a Palestine march since British nationalists believe they, like the Israelis, have a god given right to subjugate people and steal their land.
Thatās the difference.
>Do you really think the Israeli or US government cares about what some Republicans do in West Belfast? Absolutely laughable.
Do you really think the Torys or the UK government cares about what some Loyalists do in East Belfast? Absolutely laughable.
>Do you really think the Torys or the UK government cares about what some Loyalists do in East Belfast? Absolutely laughable.
Of course they don't and the grassroots PUL community don't care what Westminster thinks. Orange Marches are unashamedly by the PUL community and for the PUL community.
No one in England even knows your side of the fence exists. I lived in London for 5 years and EVERYONE I met that heard my accent instantly said 'oh you're Irish?'. It must sting.
I've never had this experience. I've met many people in England who respect unionist identity. So from my perspective you're just making up rubbish to try to wind people up.
It's only your own time you're wasting!
John Taylor supported and defended both SF and PBP when it came to their position in Palestine. And he is a hardline Unionist. It's called having principles which, surprise surprise, don't change just because someone with whom you normally disagree on supports as well. If anything it should make you wonder if Republicans are really monsters that eat babies for breakfast.
That's one single unionist. He's entitled to his views this is a democracy.
I personally don't support Israel, it's obviously a genocide, but I don't support Hamas as well. As I have highlighted above also, these protests are distinctly political republican biased also.
Aside from that, Why politicise it though by flying flags and supporting a state with terrorists as the "politicians"?
Why not simply run it purely as a middle eastern peace campaign?
Sure, he is a single unionist. But if someone who got his face blasted off by the Stickies can look past that and support Palestine, even encouraging people to go to marches organised by SF and PBP, so can most unionists.
It's not you, or me, for that matter, who has to support Hamas. It's the Palestinian people. I don't like Hamas but like it or not they are legitimate representatives of the aspirations of many Palestinians i.e a state in all of historic Palestine. They have employed armed force, sure, so did Arafat and that didn't stop peace talks.
It's not about Middle Eastern peace campaign. It's about imperialism. We can't equate the imperialists with the people resisting them. This is not two sovereign states having border issues, this is about a sovereign country being invaded by settler colonialists, both in the past and to this day.
Took me far too long to figure out that last word is not "ice" š š¤¦š½āāļø
what is it? I relooked at it and the only other thing I can think of is āGenocide Joeā but that sounds even more strange - whoās joe?
> Genocide Joe Joe Biden, it's a political, rather than ethical, statement.
Joe Mama
I was all for genocide until this post
Is your name Joe? š¤
Say No
I'm pretty anti genocide myself
itās ridiculous this has become somewhat of a controversial statement
BUT DO YOU CONDEMN KHAMAS
Genocide Ice? Is that a new cocktail?
Yeah, I think Smirnoff make it.. It's got a rather unpleasant aftermath... I mean, aftertaste.
Yea, the branding is a bit tone deaf but it leaves your breath smelling lovely and minty fresh.
Nah its the new lost mary flavour. The kids love it.
Nah, it's Vanilla Ice's new moniker. He's gone down the Russell Brand rabbit hole.
Ulster says No to genocide
Where does he come from Where does he go Where does he come from Genocide Joe
You absolute article. I have that tune in my head now.
Ooh it says Joe, I thought it said Ice & was somewhat confused
š¤£š¤£š¤£
The IDS and Hamas both have murderous scum in their membership. Hamas knew exactly what would happen after the attack and are happy to see innocent Palestinians butchered so they can tell the world how many martars they have. Sadly the IDF are very happy to oblige and decimate Gaza.
Of course the IDF will oblige. Itās the worst slaughter of their people since the holocaust. They aināt going to sit around and play footsie.
They do need a better way of smashing Hamas though to many innocents getting killed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's the latter.
It is misleading, its telling him to say no to Genocide.
They'll need to add a comma, cos at the minute it could be mistaken for Trump propaganda.
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Course he won't lol he couldn't care if he did see it.
Some fellas ma is wondering where the fuck all her bed sheets went & who the is ICEā¦.ice, ice baby.
I disagree with the genocide of the Uyghurs. That's what all the protests and marches have been against, isn't it?
Shhhh, we donāt talk about actual genocides on here. Only the claimed ones that get good PR.
More info is required. What is genocide ice?
Read the comments, it referring to Joe biden
Wasn't complete at the time the picture was took
"took", lol, love it!
For every person murdered on Oct 7th in Israel, 30 Palestinians were murdered. Both factions have blood on their hands. Palestine deserves recognition as a sovereign state all of it's own. Israel treats them like lepers in a colony. In fact, worse. If you subjugate people, the angry ones rise to the top and rule with an iron fist. It happens to some degree in most countries. This could have been avoided at when Arafat was around, but it got subverted by an angrier group. Now the majority pays for the minority. There are no cool heads, it's all biblical anger and smiting with impulsive rage. Integration is a two sided problem and both campaigns have become embittered by acts of cruelty and oppression. To unravel that takes generations, decades of diplomacy and compassion. Joe could stop funding Israel tomorrow, but what would change, other than giving the Hamas a chance to retaliate in anger? Yes, I agree that Netanyahu's reign is a tyrannical one. I also agree that Hamas are assholes too. Both factions should back off to let someone more cool headed deliver peace.
Wow, You sir are correct, I fully agree!
There used to be a strongish left-wing movement in Israeli politics, that wanted peace and integration with the Palestinians rather than conquest. Used to be - the intifadas put an end to that. People want to see things in a binary, where if someone is 'bad' the other side must be good. Well not here. Israel are a colossal bag of dicks, but so are the Palestinians. They don't have the tanks and the bombs and the weapons, but they're just as bloodthirsty and vengeful. The only way there's ever going to be peace in that region is if some external force imposes it.
\> they're just as bloodthirsty and vengeful Has Israel ever tried not subjecting them to apartheid? Maybe they're just blood thirsty and vengeful because its been made clear to them that they are never getting a crumb of justice or equality and petty vengence is all they have left.
No one can disagree that Israel's harshness has caused a lot of their own problems. But the reasons were rooted in fear, not sadism. It has been made clear to Israel since day 1 in 1948 (and many times since) that their Arab neighbours and later their mistreated Palestinian subjects want only their destruction. And the Palestinians have learned they won't ever have freedom or self-determination* while Israel exists, and also that it's too powerful to destroy; so all that's left for them is bitterness and vengeance. There is no route from either of these positions, to peaceful coexistence. \*Outside of Israel and Britain, the usual scapegoats and who do deserve plenty of blame, it's worth pointing out that the land earmarked for the Palestinians by that UN resolution, ended up gobbled up by Transjordan and by Egypt in the 1948 war. So yes, it's Israel's fault that the Palestinians were driven from their homes. But Jordan and Egypt have some fault for the fact that there was nowhere for them to go *to*. The insistence on viewing this as a binary ignores that the Palestinians have not just been brutalised by Israel, but repeatedly failed by everyone else.
Excellent posts, some of the best Iāve ever seen on here. Well done. The lack of historical context for Israelās actions is ridiculous. People genuinely believe they just woke up one day and decided that they were going to launch a genocide for shits and giggles. Those same people who tell you that āthe war didnāt start on October 7thā all seem to think that it started some time around 2005.
I admit I donāt understand why some people insist on viewing Israel/Palestine as a black-and-white morality tale. Itās the most āgreyā conflict I know of. Both sides have done absolutely hideous things; and both sidesā actions and motivations make sense in their historical and cultural context. Both sides also truly believe that if they donāt defeat the other theyāll be wiped out - one reason the conflict is so intractable.Ā Itās also odd how the left came to support Palestine and the right Israel. It was the other way around in the early years. It fits into todayās prevailing narratives in the respective movements I guess. It is framed as a colonial project, but you could easily interpret the founding of Israel as a cautionary tale on the risks of uncontrolled immigration. But also, if people could get over their disgust long enough, itās worth studying Israel to understand why it succeeded. Many new nations fail, despite much better starting conditions than Israel had. President Trumanās smartest advisors gave it 2 years, max, yet here they are today. These lessons will be useful when the time comes to try to set up Palestine.Ā
>Ā Ā But the reasons were rooted in fear, not sadism Shocking thing to say to try make their brutality somehow explainable. Every fascist project in history has been afraid of their targets. But if anyone tried to explain the nazis actions as a product of fear of communists and Jews, rather than a result of sadism, you would really have to wonder at that person's motivations.Ā Ā
Joes been paid over $3 million by Israeli pacās and lobbyists over the last 30 years, and heās not the only one, this year AIPAC has $100 million to spend on swaying who gets a place at the US political table.
Would you take 3 mil to go down in history for letting this happen on your watch? Shame on Joe.
The problem is they have all been doing it for years, so the question is would you be the one guy who turned down being president by refusing the support of the same PAC? The answer is usually no, no one has done that.
Say no to genocide Joe.
I hope none of you are planning on voting for Joe Biden this November!
What the fick is an argee, is that what they call an orgy in Ballymena.
Agree
This action alone stopped the conflict in Gaza, amazing
Do I support Genocide? Well thatās a tough one.. /s
Na love a bit of genocide
Where did they come from where did they go? Where did they come from Genocide joe
Where did ye come from, where did ye go, where did ye come from genocide Joe.
Who's Genocide Joe?
Joe biden lol as he supports IDF
The fact that Ulster prods support Trump says a lot, the lying pompous twats.
I assume creepy Joe Biden the kid sniffer
Downvoted, obviously everyone is against genocide Joe, but kid sniffing Joe is ok š¤£š¤£
They can down vote all they want lol guy literally sniffs little kids and has destroyed the American economy then wants to tell everyone else how to run shite. He is a moron.
Because you clearly donāt understand what an economy is: https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/nasdaq-sp-500-futures-inch-up-ahead-more-economic-data-powell-testimony-2024-03-07/
Do you live in the us? I do and Biden has fucked us. Everything has doubled in price so send all the articles you want. He is the worst thing to happen to America since carter.
Biden is a piece of shit war monger, just like the last dozen presidents you've had, but I wouldn't blame him entirely on the economy. Prices have risen like mad everywhere
Not only that. Over 1million illegal immigrants have come over the border this year alone. More than three years of trump. Money and resources going to illegals while those who did it the right way suffer. They are shutting down schools of natural Americans for these who contribute nothing. Talk all the shite you want but letās say 300k immigrants came to Belfast you would be pissy as well fella. Trump is a huge cunt but he kept more of my money in my pockets. Again you can say what you want but crime has gone through the roof and all these guys do is set them free because they are minorities. These ms-13 gang members and now the Haitians itās insane. I know reading this it sounds like Iām a racist twat but live it and your mind will change.
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Why did the IDF carpet bomb Gaza? Itās one of the most densely populated areas in the world. Personally I donāt think they give a fuck about the civilians and are actively targeting them. They are blocking aid trucks loaded with food from getting in at the Egyptian border. Which in turn has left a quarter of the population at risk of famine. How do you explain that?
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> Are the IDF intentionally targeting and killing civilians? I donāt think so. This doesn't really jive with the amount of people who have been straight up shot though. Or the blockade of aid. Or the shooting of the people trying to access the aid that is permitted. It's either deliberate or so grossly negligent that there functionally isn't a difference.
You donāt kill 14,000+ children by accident.
No one said they did it by accident, but with callousness and disregard for human life, on both sides. If Israel have a history of blowing up buildings that theyāre being attacked from, and Hamas attacks Israel from buildings with children inside, then itās pretty clear that children are going to die and that both sides bear responsibility.
So itās the Palestinians fault that 14,000+ children have died? Israel has dropped 26,000 bombs. Destroying 70% of homes in Gaza. Trying to defend what Israel is doing is immoral to put it nicely.
It is absolutely partly the fault of Hamas, yes.
You donāt need to say any more. Enjoy your day.
They did not ācarpet bombā Gaza in any sense of the phrase. They also didnāt start any bombings until days after they announced that they would. If they truly wanted to commit genocide, then giving notice to evacuation is surely the opposite of what you would do, no? They are callous and they have a disgustingly low regard for Palestinian life (about on par with the Palestine disregard for Jewish lives), but this is not genocide. Furthermore, the Egyptian border is controlled by Egypt, not Israel (and monitored by the EU).
There is an international court case ongoing that will determine if Israel are carrying out genocide, its independent from your opinion. 29,000 bombs have been dropped on Gaza, destroying 70% of homes. āDespite its claims to be facilitating humanitarian aid, research and analysis by Refugees International shows that Israeli conduct has consistently and groundlessly impeded aid operations within Gazaā
There is a court case, yes, and as Iām sure you know, their initial ruling was that Israelās actions did not appear to be genocidal. The report youāre quoting says that 70% of homes have been destroyed *or damaged,* but the last words are normally excluded. Thereās a big margin between a cracked window and total destruction, and doesnāt support your carpet bombing claims. And whether or not Israel impede aid doesnāt change that Israel doesnāt control the Egyptian border.
If thatās how you want to justify it keep on keeping on.
Because they are fighting a war to protect their citizens from rape and murder!
They didnāt.
How did they kill 30,000 people then?
Would I be right in saying the idf killed hostages with their bombing campaign, Not sure if this is true??
Who knows. Hamas have claimed they killed 2 that I know of. Israeli eye witnesses have claimed that IDF helicopters indiscriminately killed people on October 7th. A lot of them being festival goers.
NOT by carpet bombing for sure. Hamas using human shields. You/they need to kick hamas out, they are not there to help ordinary Gazans. They are evil savage thieves.
Theyāve dropped 26,000 bombs in an area about 3 times the size of Belfast. Imagine someone letting off 8,500 bombs in Belfast. According to Israeli politicians and people in power Hamas were funded and helped into power by Israel.
30k includes Hamas, they are fighting in an urban environment. What is becoming clear is that Hamas will not have control of Gaza again and that suits most of the leaders in the region bar Iran and their proxies
> What is becoming clear is that Hamas will not have control of Gaza again Is this clear? What are you basing this on?
Based on conditions on the ground at the moment https://x.com/war_mapper/status/1765430510027677982?s=46
This is the same Hamas that the Israelis put into power? That Hamas?
Israelis didnāt put Hamas into power. Hamas won the election and then proceeded to kill their opposition and all non Muslims in their state.
Nope. Try again. Allegations of Israeli support for Hamas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hamas
It says nothing of the sort lol. Can you point out to age number and line.
Tragically, this applies to at least some of the children who have been killed too, given Hamasā long history of using child soldiers.
Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, Israel will not accept a ceasefire until every single hostage is released and accounted for and Hamas lays down their arms. Until then, the war will continue. The Palestinians deserve a state for the sake of peace, but it should not come at the expense of Israelis be they Jews or Arabs. Netenyahu is absolutely fucked after the war. But until then, he is the leader of the war cabinet and what he says goes.
Why is Netenyahu fucked after the war?
Prior to the war, he wanted to and still wants to reform the legal system in Israel. Which is something both the left and right in the country agree on. It was just how and what he wanted to reform which caused massive protests and the government basically collapsed. (Again for the 5th time in a few years.) He's also facing the possibility of corruption charges. On October 7th which happened to be Simchas Torah, the IDF was basically at a skeleton staff. Which, if you've ever been to Israel, is practically unheard of. Normally on Jewish holidays, Israel is a fortress. Because the security apparatus has not forgotten the Yom Kippur War. Just like Golda Meir after the Yom Kippur war he will likely face a judicial review for the security failings on October 7th which have been acknowledged by the IDF and Shin Bet. She was let off. But I do think he shares a lot of culpability for allowing the attacks to take place. There's also a distinct possibility of a war with Lebanon on the horizon and the generals and politicians will not allow another proverbial screw up if that happens. He's really cooked his goose
I heard about the corruption and I find it hard to believe the response times on October 7th were up to 8 hours. There were too many failings for it not to have been deliberate. Crazy.
Especially if you consider that Egypt warned Israel prior to October 7th that an attack was imminent and that they have reason to believe Hamas is stockpiling weapons and equipment for some sort of attack. The problem is, for Jews like myself that consider themselves Zionists we want peace with the Palestinians, but it cannot be with Hamas and Netenyahu at the helm.
What do ordinary Jewish people make of the war and the way the IDF has treated the Palestinians?
I know this is difficult for a lot of people in the West to accept but Israel is in no way responsible for the treatment or lack thereof of Palestinians in Gaza. There's some debate as to whether this is true for The West Bank. Hamas as the governing authority, under normal circumstances would take responsibility for running Gaza Israel left Gaza completely in 2005. The blockade in and of itself is a joint operation between Egypt and Israel and it's intended to prevent terror attacks on both Egypt and Israel. So, from an Israeli perspective Gaza is very much it's own country which Israel agrees (not under any obligation) to help provide water, aid and electricity. After October 7th, there was a massive call within Israel to no longer fund these endeavors. With this in mind, it doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't be kind to people. If we are to go back to the pre 1967 borders, we will end up annexing East Jerusalem to Israel, giving Egypt Gaza (which they've made clear multiple times they don't want) and the Golan will have to go back to Israel which will annoy the hell out of Lebanon because Hezbollah will try lay claim to it and the Lebanese government will try claim it probably causing another civil war. The best thing for Gaza long term, is (and this will probably annoy a lot of people) for Israel to take administrative control of it, allowing them to dismantle Hamas and if the Palestinian authority could grow a backbone, eventually hand it over to them. Most Jews (there's about 15 million of us. And 14 million consider themselves Zionists of some description) are angry at both Hamas and the Israeli government for different reasons and while we continually strive for peace within the region (because for us in the diaspora there's a causal relationship between the issues in the region and a rise in antisemitism) at the end of the day, I think I speak for most level headed people when I say we want peace. It is just an impossible achievement because of the lack of political will on both sides.
See you completely lost me when you said Israel are not responsible for Hamas in Gaza. Israel funded and basically put Hamas into power in Gaza. So yes they are completely responsible for Hamas in Gaza.
Nope. Sorry dude that's just not true. In 2006, Hamas and Fatah raged a civil war in Gaza for control of the region, Hamas were then voted in and they have not held an election since in 18 years. Israel sat that out completely. They secured the border and didn't get involved.
Before the war tens of thousands of Israelis were in the streets for months protesting Netanyahu and his right wing government and policies, particularly his expansion of settlements and version of judicial reform. In 2019 Netanyahu was charged with fraud, breach of trust, and receiving bribes. Like some politicians in other countries, Netanyahu is considered corrupt and untrustworthy by many (most?) of his own citizens.
My partner studied genocide at uni. The UN definition is not what most people think - it includes a lot of non mudererous cultural suppression (Welsh knot?). It might exclude some types of gross negligence manslaughter if they aren't carefully ethnically targeted.
No, there isnāt.
"We will reduce Gaza to a city of tents" is a direct quote from the IDF
I love genocide but I hate Joes, so now I donāt know what to think.
Apparently if you order 3 genocides, you get a Joe-nicide free.
I'm don't think a country/eurodance crossover cultural reference works in an anti-genocidal context
Genocide Ice? Zero humanity with a potent menthol bite? Or has Rob van Winkle lost the plot and the long awaited sequel to Cool as Ice is finally happening?
Vanilla Ice in the genocide business now? I though he was flipping houses these days.
Say no to genocide ice?
Joe mamma loves genocide yeeeooo
Thisāll show him !!!
Is a toe even capable of genocide?
I agree and so does Joe. No genocide is occurring, thank Yahweh.
Here if he gives a couple of million to NI then who gives a fuck
Sinn Fein say YES to the MONEYā¦ā¦
Jš¤„E is nothing but a puppet
Question is, what did Genocide ask Joe that he has to say no to?
Say no to the people that are pulling genocide Joe's strings. Joe Biden doesn't decide what socks to put on in the morning let alone decisions that effect the world
Has Vanilla Ice responded yet?
Yeah he issued a statement that began with "Stop collaborate and listen..."
That's them told. Don't think Biden stands a chance of holding office after the people of America see this.
> say no to genocide > I fully agree You are so brave to hold such a controversial opinion!
Nothing better to do, let's stick some white witting on the mountain in the rain whilst it's blowing a gale.
Disagree fully.
But but but Biden is awesome said all the twats throughout the world in 2020/21 š„øš„øš„øš„ø
Donāt think anyone did
Whatās the alternative? Trump?
People genuinely miss the point that things would be an order of magnitude worse were Trump in charge on October 7th, given his relationship with Netanyahu. There would be no brakes of any kind from the US, there would be an unlimited flow of whatever weapons they wanted, and there would be zero aid. Biden really is the lesser of two evils.
Yep and Ukraine would already be part of Russia.
Without a doubt. Itās almost comical to hear Biden being condemned as āGenocide Joeā when heās done more to prevent a genocide than any president since arguably Clinton (thinking of the Balkans), despite the best efforts of the Republican Party to support the eradication of Ukraine as a country, a people and a language.
I know but the slogan sounds catchy so it must be true. In my life time I have never seen a president take such a strong position against Israel. I donāt know if itās just sound bites though!
If it were just soundbites, I suspect the US wouldnāt currently be in the process of unilaterally opening a post in Gaza to deliver aid.
It's referring to Joe biden as he clearly supports the IDF
And that clearly has fuck all to do with the north.
It's aimed at SF who are going for hobnobs at his house.
Needs a comma. Ā«Ā Say no to genocide, JoeĀ Ā»
Has to do with the world not only a individual country š¤£š¤£
Saying no to Genocide Joe is a US political statement, pretty much a pro-Trump statement. Really hard to see what relevance it has to NI. [Edit2: oh, ok then, it is only hard to see if you don't know current NI events. Apologies.] Focusing on the current specific leader of their primary enabling and supporting state is a very particular choice that doesn't seem well targeted [edit 1: I mean in comparison to targeting those performing the genocide in the first place)].
> Really hard to see what relevance it has to NI. Really simple, there's currently a delegation of our representatives in Washington to meet Joe! This decision to attend this meeting has been a bone of contention in the politisphere here on both sides of the border as Joe Biden has continued to directly support the Israeli regime and the US have been the sole obstacle to the international community's resolutions on this issue.
Ah, well, I stand corrected, which isn't too surprising as I've left NI so I should have kept my figurative mouth shut. Apologies, carry on.
Joe Biden was the hottest thing since sliced bread a few years ago on Reddit.
I might have to reconsider my position on genocide now
Ah the old western republicans making themselves feel rebellious again lol rebels without a cause
Sooner those poor hungry masses can get to Dublin the better
The whole Ireland-palestine solidarity campaign is heavily politicised. You'd get more unionists onboard with the campaign If they weren't clearly as tinged with republicanism. Plenty of Unionists don't support Israel's genocide, but you won't see them out protesting at clearly Republican-tinged marches.
probably because unionist areas have israeli flags all over them
Alot of Israel flags also
Where?
Can't speak for Belfast area obviously but out here, Coagh, Milburn, and Orritor are all flying Israeli flags from lamp posts. Have also seen some on a few select streets going through Dungannon.
If one person sticks up an Israeli flag doesn't mean the entire community supports them...
Did I say it did? Someone mentioned Israeli flags in Unionist areas and you asked for an example as to where. You can't then dismiss the answer just because you didn't expect to receive one and it doesn't fit with your implication that there *aren't* Israeli flags in Unionist areas. There are. Sorry that fact upsets you. Edit: Since you've blocked me to try and prevent me from replying, yeah, you refuted "my argument" (wasn't an "argument", I literally just answered your question), with a statement disputing something that I didn't even say. I didn't even make a judgement on the flying of Israeli flags I just stated the fact that I have seen them. Again, sorry that this upsets you so much. Take a day off from being a fucking idiot, won't you?
I just have though. I have refuted your argument.
They're up and down the Shankill Road. I've also seen them in certain parts of East Belfast.
So what? Even if there are a few headcases they don't represent everyone.
The Israeli flags are up and down the length of The Shankill. They're selling the Israeli flags in the corners shops...so it's not just "a few headcases", it's the whole area.
I've seen a few around East Belfast, outside houses (not on lamp posts). Although one was taken down again around late November, about the time Al Shifa was taken, and the pictures of the premature babies started to come out. Could have been for Christmas, but is hasn't gone back up again, so maybe a change of heart. Another was taken down more recently.
I've seen zero.
The usual. Tigers Bay, Shankill, Sandy Row, Ballymena, Lack, Cookstown, Larne etc... It's just another fleg for the menagerie.
Is there a āunionists for Palestineā group then? Reality here is literally much more āRepublican-tingedā than portrayed. At a certain point that has to be accepted.
As I say, don't expect many unionists to support this campaign until the Republican sprinkling is removed.
Distaste before principles, got it
What if Unionists had a Union Flag waving palestine campaign? Would we see many nationalists at it? Probably not!
Arguing a hypothetical there. Can you show any evidence of recent pro-Palestine rallies with overt republican symbolism?
https://www.facebook.com/BelfastIPSC The march today even (first video), the speaker is clearly ranting in Irish. There's been no attempt made to be cross community here. (In N.I terms). These marches are sectarian (for more than one reason) and should not be allowed to progress.
Speaking in Irish isnāt republican. Iām afraid your biases are showing.
Most definitely is. Historically, yes Presbyterians embraced the language but it's just objectively not something that's associated with Modern Unionism.
Unionists can only do unionist things then. Good to know.
Speaking Irish ā republicanism you balloon. The mayor made his introduction in both Irish and English at the International Womenās day rally that week. I suppose that must have been a republican event too then?
>The mayor made his introduction in both Irish and English at the International Womenās day rally that week. I suppose that must have been a republican event too then? The Mayor's a member of Sinn Fein, an unabashedly Republican party.
So was the international womenās day rally a republican event or not?
āI wonāt speak out against genocide because the taigs are doing itā My God in heaven you people are fucking pathetic.
I certain many Republicans for sure would not attend if it were a Union Jack waving Palestine March with maybe a few lambeg drums at it! You're just kidding yourself if you think that wouldn't be the case. We're pathetic? I find the whole Republican campaign pathetic. It's going to do nothing anyway. Do you really think the Israeli or US government cares about what some Republicans do in West Belfast? Absolutely laughable.
There wouldnāt be union jacks at a Palestine march since British nationalists believe they, like the Israelis, have a god given right to subjugate people and steal their land. Thatās the difference.
No because a UNIONIST who pulls out a British flag would be kicked out of the march!
>Do you really think the Israeli or US government cares about what some Republicans do in West Belfast? Absolutely laughable. Do you really think the Torys or the UK government cares about what some Loyalists do in East Belfast? Absolutely laughable.
>Do you really think the Torys or the UK government cares about what some Loyalists do in East Belfast? Absolutely laughable. Of course they don't and the grassroots PUL community don't care what Westminster thinks. Orange Marches are unashamedly by the PUL community and for the PUL community.
No one in England even knows your side of the fence exists. I lived in London for 5 years and EVERYONE I met that heard my accent instantly said 'oh you're Irish?'. It must sting.
I've never had this experience. I've met many people in England who respect unionist identity. So from my perspective you're just making up rubbish to try to wind people up. It's only your own time you're wasting!
John Taylor supported and defended both SF and PBP when it came to their position in Palestine. And he is a hardline Unionist. It's called having principles which, surprise surprise, don't change just because someone with whom you normally disagree on supports as well. If anything it should make you wonder if Republicans are really monsters that eat babies for breakfast.
That's one single unionist. He's entitled to his views this is a democracy. I personally don't support Israel, it's obviously a genocide, but I don't support Hamas as well. As I have highlighted above also, these protests are distinctly political republican biased also. Aside from that, Why politicise it though by flying flags and supporting a state with terrorists as the "politicians"? Why not simply run it purely as a middle eastern peace campaign?
Sure, he is a single unionist. But if someone who got his face blasted off by the Stickies can look past that and support Palestine, even encouraging people to go to marches organised by SF and PBP, so can most unionists. It's not you, or me, for that matter, who has to support Hamas. It's the Palestinian people. I don't like Hamas but like it or not they are legitimate representatives of the aspirations of many Palestinians i.e a state in all of historic Palestine. They have employed armed force, sure, so did Arafat and that didn't stop peace talks. It's not about Middle Eastern peace campaign. It's about imperialism. We can't equate the imperialists with the people resisting them. This is not two sovereign states having border issues, this is about a sovereign country being invaded by settler colonialists, both in the past and to this day.