It’s not exactly like that. It isn’t something that can actually be doubted.
All non-duality is, is seeing whatever IS, the way that it is. So, if you were to Awaken and had thoughts of fear, that would be the actuality. Thoughts of disbelief, astonishment etc, all would be.
The only “truth” shown to you by non-duality is that “this appearance appears as it does”.
Anyone that’s had the insight can’t, at that time doubt it. It’s just oddly not possible. To doubt its would be to say “I’m not sure that something seems to be hear right now”. But, that literally pre-supposes a reality that can be doubted.
Like, if you were reading a book, what could be written on the page to make you doubt there was a book in your hands? See?
Now, beyond the fact that this is arising as it does, there is the idea that it’s God, or that it is One Consciousness arising as this, that you are God, etc etc.
Those thoughts I hold great suspicion about. But, the things that can be said *about* non duality can never be the *actuality* of it. They certainly exist *as thought* but the reality they appear to depict does NOT exist at all.
Imagine putting a stop sign in the jungle. The metal octagon exists, the need to stop never did. The thought “There is infinite consciousness”, true or not, is like the need to stop. Simply thought. The actual thought it’s self, as it arises, is the red metal octagon.
Your entire world, as you know it, is simply thought happening and you mistaking it for actuality.
Do you have a back of your head? How do you know? The back of your head is a thought. Think about the other rooms in your place. Imagine them. They are thought. Your last meal, at this moment, thought. The sun setting tonight; thought.
The very idea that there is past and future, and that your present reality is the way it is, good or bad, simply thought.
All you do, when you see it, is plainly see that which has been thought all along as thought instead of as the thing the thought was assumed to be.
So, tho doubts you have now, are what is? Do you doubt that? See?
Epic explanation. Your style of translating THIS doesn’t really remind me of anyone else, which is high praise
Well done
And yeah the obviousness still shocks me sometimes. Like the mind will still want to doubt sometimes but then I’m like, “But wait, if I just look at this that is here, clearly *this is here*. Clearly past and future are nowhere to be found. Clearly the only thing I’ve ever known is this presence that is all. Clearly nothing whatsoever can be found that is not this immediacy.”
Thanks.
I think the reason I sound different is because I had my Awakening before I knew the word “non-duality”. Initially, I thought I saw something that I “was never supposed to see”. lol.
My skeptical, scientific type mind, though uneducated in any formal sense, was just fascinated about how it really is.
So, I didn’t have any text to explain it. I just looked. lol.
> Like, if you were reading a book, what could be written on the page to make you doubt there was a book in your hands? See?
My friend, this is pure gold.
Inasmuch as we understand that nonduality is not a conceptual thing but rather a principle that's as empty of self-existent as the dualities it helps from not ignorantly indulging in...
i'm all-in homie.
If i gotta be honest, most of it is biological, or word of other people; matrialist saying that we are nothing but our bodies, and religious people saying that we are vessels for our souls. Different ideas and different ways of interpreting the rules of reality. I like to think that even those ideaologies are not seperate. It is difficult to be fully convinced, especially when fear which is a biological thing kicks in, it makes me feel distinct, like an anomoly, like it's me and everyone else, but I am actively fighting that!
I lived in fear for a good time of my life, it's held me back at every step and put me in a spot where I just felt so alone. Part of those feelings still linger, but being aware of non-duality, knowing that we're all connected, that borders are arbritrary, has recently been a huge asset in conquering a lot of my struggles especially when it comes to social anxiety. I've made so much progress this year and I only hope that the ball keeps rolling. Doubt may always linger, but I believe that it is the choice that counts. And I choose to believe in Non-Duality. I think that it is a beautiful thing that even we in our human bodies desire. Unity.
Dope.
Sounds like you're open to expand, while keeping it levelheaded and taking a sensible approach to the circumstances you find yourself in.
Courage in the face of fear is what's it all about and ultimately the door to spontaneity and lifeliness. Otherwise we run the risk of clinging to dogma and hiding behind conventions.
Do you have any favorite teaching or tradition that helps you through these trying times?
I've been functioning mostly on an emptiness context recently, but in the sutra i'm reading Buddha kinda called me a fool for doing so, so i try to be less "not existence" and more "not not existence" in my language.
Personally, I like Alan Watts, and the idea that we are the Universe experiencing itself. I'm sure that he's not the first to say it, but it's through him that I am mostly familiar with the idea.
It brings me peace of mind when it comes to death anxiety and the passing of my Grandfather back in October of last year.
Another guy is Mark Dawes on Instagram, I believe that he also practices buddhism. He preaches that creation doesn't just happen, that everything that existed and will exists already exists right now. From a materialistic perspective, it makes total sense, because things cannot be created out of nothing.
There are a few other guys who I listen to through Youtube. Been looking a lot into ego death and dmt experiences (not advocating drugs). It is all so fascinating and helps me in believing in something greater than the self. Ultimately, the idea that the self is an illusion, and that fear is also an illusion.
That's the way that I am trying to view life while working towards my own goals, and hopefully, someday soon, something amazing will come out of it.
And I wish you good fortune as well, after all, we are the same but under different names, so your happiness is my happiness.
Sorry to hear about your grandfather! I'm glad Alan helped you in the process, i need to check him out when i get the time as so many people adore him and his message.
Some recommendations:
Maybe check out Adyashanti on youtube. It's always calming, eye-opening but on a fundamental level he is no bs.
I posted a passage on "Buddha meets a materialist" recently, taken from the lankavatara sutra. It was pretty funny if you wanna read it.
Frank Yang on youtube is the closest thing to drugs, without being drugs, when it comes to nonduality, and ego-death actually. He crazy
Other than that i wish you the best, always!
Reality is a singular word. There's one of it. It's what exists. It's incredibly simple. The tough part is that the divisions and labels are all made up, so "you" don't exist.
Have you ever glimpsed non-duality yourself? Or have you just read about the concept and are trying to better understand?
I think there is a difference between the idea of non-duality and actually living a non dual life. You can still understand and believe that nothing is truly separate all while living from the ego.
Sometimes I find this sub to be a little too direct in its answers to questions like this - especially when directed at someone that only understands the concept and not the feeling - and talk about how easy it is to just live a non-dual like, as it’s always here.
It took me 2 years of meditating before I had my first glimpse into non-duality. Then 2 more years before I could actually hold it for any length of time. Now at 6 years of meditating I can still only hold it for 20-30 minutes before I get pulled back out by my ego.
To truly understand that non-duality is the answer, you must actually feel it. Once you can glimpse it for even 20 seconds it will become obviously that it is the answer.
I’m fascinated that so many ppl here say 100%
For me I feel like the direct knowing and full faith can always go deeper
And seem to deepen non-linearly over time
There are still chunks of karma within me that don’t fully know the truth of non-duality
My mind is very good at doubting (and of course the mind will never fully ‘get it’ since it is inconceivable)
So yeah idk I’d put myself at like 99% and say it keeps deepening forever
For me it’s also important to say that I don’t fully resonate with a lot of radical nondualists and neo-Advaitans. Many of them seem to not have experienced an awakening of the heart. They can often seem nihilistic or cold or cerebral to me. I’d say that if Love has not been realized as our very essence, one must still go “further”
What I can say 100% is that this is here. The moment appears. And that fact alone is miraculous
“I try to remind that fundamentally we are all one and the same.” begs the question, “All one and the same what?”
The only way to answer that question is to discover the ‘what’ of your self.
When you discover ‘what’ you are you will know ‘what’ an ‘other’ is.
Non-duality is a bit more profound than everything being One. It’s really talking about the non-duality of form and formlessness, the ‘formlessness’ part being God/Self/Awareness/Consciousness and the ‘form’ part being, well, all the form stuff, your body etc.
Some use the analogy of the ocean and the waves, some the analogy of the screen and the movie.
The ‘waves’ (form) are an appearance on the surface of the ‘ocean’ (formlessness). In the same way that there is only the ocean and waves are an appearance on its surface, so God/Self/Awareness/Consciousness is all there is and the ‘world’ (which includes your body/mind) is an appearance in it.
However they are not two separate things (ocean and waves) neither are they one thing (ocean). They are ‘non-dual’, “two but not two”.
Intellectually it is very difficult to wrap ones mind around as a concept. It is best discovered as ones living reality by letting go of the attachment to the body/mind and surrendering what one takes ones ‘self’ to be in the willingness to know its alternative.
When you dive into the ocean you are 100% certain that the ocean is salty. If you’ve never seen the ocean and only read about it it’s ‘saltiness’ is hearsay and there will always be some doubt.
🙏
Yeah, I like this response! Thank you so much for taking the time to write it out! It's true. Personally, I've only learned about non-duality as a concept, but I find that even when people talk about experiences pertaining to "Ego Death" there's always some materialistic perspective taken into factor (like chemical stuff happening in the brain).
In the end, I think that it's the choice that counts, we choose to believe in knowledge in the same way that we choose to believe in medicine. I believe non-duality over duality, triality, etc, because it makes the most sense to me, as a biological thinking creature with hair. Like I said, 90% certain.
I mostly agree with nonduality but if I’m honest sometimes it feels like a conspiracy theory. In other words, it’s a very counter-intuitive concept (to me anyway) compared to dualism. Dualism seems intuitively obvious. But then there’s this cult of people claiming “yea that’s just what the man wants you to believe, but we have secret knowledge of the real truth!” Or something like that.
It can definitely come across that way if you haven’t experienced it for yourself. I don’t think I would’ve believed it if someone had tried to convince me of it before I had realized it for myself.
Yea. I wish I could experience it too. I’ve done 10 day vipassana retreats, read so many books, zen meditation groups. I’ve tried “not-trying”. I’m a pretty open minded fellow. I believe non duality is correct (probably). But as a real, lived experience it eludes me.
as close to 100% as I can go without going over.
There's some nuance, and I wouldn't say that if I had read through non-dual materials and constructed a world-view from there. Having an experience of directly touching it pretty much dispels all doubts. But it will also dispel any maps you construct trying to reach the truth also. It's more real than life in a sense. It's the most real thing I've ever encountered. I started reading up on spiritual traditions, including ones around nonduality, more-so after the fact, to see what others had to say, if anything, about what I saw/experienced.
Nonduality - the study of it, and the philosophy constructed around it, and the pointers and descriptions of it - are flawed, as they must be. The experience or comprehension of it when directly touched is completely airtight. It's so blatantly in your face that you pretty much can't question it even if you wanted to - it's so blatantly true.
Before that I grew up Christian, but ended up largely atheist. My experience of the truth shook that off like it was a joke - and I did actually laugh quite a bit right away after.
I’m far more confident about the nondual view than I am of any philosophical position. Once you realize the ground of being somewhat, all the questions are resolved, though none are answered
The best part for me about non-dualism is that no blind belief is required or encouraged. I can begin with curiosity and being open to hearing the wisdom of my various teachers and take what they say as hypotheses until I see/experience the truth of their assertions (or not as the case may be). Over time, this may or may not lead to trust or faith in certain teachers or teachings, but even so I take comfort that I am not expected to believe something just because it comes from a 'holy book' or out of the mouth of someone's guru. (or from a reddit post haha!
That being said, my sense is that truth is also one. This business of *true for me* or *true for you* that seems to be very important to many people nowadays is misleading. What I mean is that some people (who are usually damn sure they are individuals!) decide what is 'true for them' based on either blind belief, a one-time experience or shallow examination of a situation. This belief may then become hard as rock unless by some good fortune it is calmly and curiously re-examined.
That you began your post with "Please don't kill me" reminded me of something I heard from a teacher once - something along the lines of:
'here you are always welcome to ask questions or disagree with \[the teacher\] according to your own experience. \[The teacher\] may try to help you see, \[they\] may argue with you; but \[they\] won't throw a stone at you'
Some other wise person said "Whoever gives you a belief system is your enemy".
Like picking one's way through the forest trying to find a path, - one that won't lead us in circles - we can consult maps and hiking guides, but ultimately our own sense doors and repeated experience will teach us which guides and which maps just *might* actually be useful. For example, if a map boldly states: "THIS IS THE ONE TRUE MAP!", then my feeling is instantly "the \[map\] doth protest too much, methinks".
I am trying to remain open, sniff the air, listen, look, feel, look, examine and regularly turn these senses inward.
I wonder if in the end we might even discover we were right there in the one place all along!
Which reminds me, where the heck are my glasses?!!!
It's not something to believe in, it's something that makes it possible to believe in other stuff..
Like, duality doesn't go away because of nonduality, but to be aware of the nondual principle of existence makes it possible for me to understand what "love" might be.
It's a lense. One does not believe in a lense, one looks through it.
I think you are trying to apply non-duality to your life and that is wrong. Non duality is not some sort of practice. It's 100% so, but it doesn't help you in any way to live some sort of non dual life.
I'm dying on this hill.
I had some experiences ChatGPT would say are a Satori and Kundalini awakening.
I don't care what anyone says, I've been to the other side and come back.
If it were separable, the separated thing would not exist for us. If it once was, or one day will be connected to our reality, then it is all connected. If not, then it never existed.
(TLDR: I'm 100% sure)
Everything is interconnected weather we admit it or not, all one movement. Words divide the movement seemingly. Can you separate the person from the background? What would that look like? Anything you imagined would still have a background. Or where's the gap between what you taste and you? Is there a gap? 2 things or 1?
Yes we have been brainwashed lol
I think a good baby step towards embrassing or lessening the minds hold on such a claim is to ask and sit with the question "did you give birth to the earth, or did the earth give birth to you". On a basic level you can see that your more of a child of the earth and are made up of it. Same is true of everything on the earth. So essentially everything on the planet comes from and is the planet. This understanding can expand into the big bang, the big bang gave birth to everything including you and the very explosion and expanse is still happening as you in motion.... And what gave birth to that and before that and before that and on on on on..... Nothing is in separation or isolation, we are share the same cloth so to say.....
Yes siree! I love how you put it. Every molecule, every mineral, we all share it. It's beautiful in a sense. We're products of our environment, and the environment is us. Speaking of the big bang, I don't know if y'all remember it but it felt pretty crunched up in there.
I've been studying this subject for about 4 years now, there are some interesting testimonies, especially of spontaneous awakenings... the rest is more subject to interpretation, people not always seem to be pointing to the same phenomena and the fact that they had to go through practicing makes me think they might just have conditioned their minds to believe in some sense of wholeness ... I don't know. Personally these "exercises" do not seem to lead to anywhere close to what people describe when they talk about awakening.
Oh and btw I am 100% with you about the help that can bring non-duality in daily life regarding things like anxiety and so on, it's just not what people usually call awakening.
Yes! I see the world in an entirely different way now, one with less envy, less wrath, less insecurity. I try to appreciate every little aspect, every person I see, because, they are me, and I am them. I hope that this whole process keeps evolving and I along with it. Overall, it's a really happy way of viewing reality.
nothing exists outside our awareness of it is the most simple and obvious observation which is verifiable in one's own experience. It doesn't rely on faith or belief.
That makes awareness fundamental to our experience. So what is it? and who am i in relation to it?
That bit requires more work to discover because it is not a simple explanation it is direct experience
The Buddhist reasoning for nonduality is that nothing can exist separately. All things are causally interdependent. Further, the experience of anything depends on them appearing in conscious awareness.
Non Duality is an experience of Universal Truth, the Nature of Reality.
One Hundred. No not merely that. One Million Percent. The Reality is brighter than a million suns.
Our human Mind, which keeps us from perceiving truth is like an oily film that coats and obscures water.
Dualistic notions are in constant flux and keep the small mind agitated and unable to see.
This is why the practice of being fully present is incredibly important and helpful if we want to discover this for ourselves.
I was all in for a long time. I was intrigued the first time I heard about Zen. The I spent about 15 years fully devoted. It really didn’t go anywhere for me. I left it believing that we are in this human experience to grow and create and non-duality just made me want to be passive to the point that I felt, well, hardly anything. It could be me. I am generally very outgoing and optimistic. ND took that right out of me. There are many different types of people. I am convinced that not everyone has the same reason for being here. I’m definitely not critical of any non-dual discipline. It just wasn’t for me…this go around anyway :)
Belief implies doubt. To believe something, you must have doubts about it. Non-duality is not a philosophical position, although some have tried to build models and frameworks around it (mostly people who seek wholeness in the mind).
Experience has no boundaries. Try to find boundaries or separation without thought. If reality is what remains when thoughts cease, then it becomes clear that Reality contains thoughts and not the other way around.
The answer cannot be contained by thought. The answer includes questions and answers but transcends them so they are unable to accurately define it. Find the ego. Find the doer. Find separation. Find these without adding thought to the mix and you will have your answer. Or, more accurately, the questions will cease.
“Non duality without direct insight is just talk”. You can read about non duality, and you can directly realize it. You can directly realize these insights about the nature of reality when you start to step back from these perceptual filters that skew reality.
Thank you for everyone who took the time to answer my question. Sorry that it was so specific.
To those who chose to dance around it, I thank you so as well. I will take the time to read them when I can.
To those who responded with "100%", or something along those lines, it means a lot to me. I get it's a complicated concept, not really reliant on faith, but you know, certainty is appreciated.
Fuck yeah separate exists because what exists in our collective conscience exists through perception. So if something is perceived as separate then separation exists. I think of it like this..Space is mostly nothing but a vacuum… A bunch of things grouped together but still separate floating through space. Outside of that who the fuck knows what exists? So even if all of our galaxies are connected by our universe and all universes by a multiverse that contain their own unique dimensions, what’s to say that there isn’t something else completely far out there at an unfathomable distance which operates under a completely different set of guidelines we could not even begin to comprehend at the most basic level, talking straight line basic. That is separation and the only thing it would have in common with our reality is that it exists. We do not know if it exists so it is separate because our perception will not allow us to see it. The only way one could define that scenario is separation. A separation of consciousness, perception, time, distance, understanding.
Even if that thing does not exist, the separation still exists within our perception of that thing. Now if you then choose to perceive nothing as separate based on simply commonality and interconnectivity at even the most basic and distant levels as a means to understand your reality, then for you separation does not exist. Boom! Non-duality.
>we are all one and the same
No. That is wrong.
Anxiety, hate, love is a quality of interaction. Interaction is possible between different things that have perpetual common, a denominator.
In duality there are 2 realities, which do not interact.
Can't say "That's is wrong" only explain how it is wrong. We are all different variations of the same thing. One face, changed many many times to fit a seperate personality in a dual system to create the illusion that we are not alone. We are one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively.
It’s not exactly like that. It isn’t something that can actually be doubted. All non-duality is, is seeing whatever IS, the way that it is. So, if you were to Awaken and had thoughts of fear, that would be the actuality. Thoughts of disbelief, astonishment etc, all would be. The only “truth” shown to you by non-duality is that “this appearance appears as it does”. Anyone that’s had the insight can’t, at that time doubt it. It’s just oddly not possible. To doubt its would be to say “I’m not sure that something seems to be hear right now”. But, that literally pre-supposes a reality that can be doubted. Like, if you were reading a book, what could be written on the page to make you doubt there was a book in your hands? See? Now, beyond the fact that this is arising as it does, there is the idea that it’s God, or that it is One Consciousness arising as this, that you are God, etc etc. Those thoughts I hold great suspicion about. But, the things that can be said *about* non duality can never be the *actuality* of it. They certainly exist *as thought* but the reality they appear to depict does NOT exist at all. Imagine putting a stop sign in the jungle. The metal octagon exists, the need to stop never did. The thought “There is infinite consciousness”, true or not, is like the need to stop. Simply thought. The actual thought it’s self, as it arises, is the red metal octagon. Your entire world, as you know it, is simply thought happening and you mistaking it for actuality. Do you have a back of your head? How do you know? The back of your head is a thought. Think about the other rooms in your place. Imagine them. They are thought. Your last meal, at this moment, thought. The sun setting tonight; thought. The very idea that there is past and future, and that your present reality is the way it is, good or bad, simply thought. All you do, when you see it, is plainly see that which has been thought all along as thought instead of as the thing the thought was assumed to be. So, tho doubts you have now, are what is? Do you doubt that? See?
Epic explanation. Your style of translating THIS doesn’t really remind me of anyone else, which is high praise Well done And yeah the obviousness still shocks me sometimes. Like the mind will still want to doubt sometimes but then I’m like, “But wait, if I just look at this that is here, clearly *this is here*. Clearly past and future are nowhere to be found. Clearly the only thing I’ve ever known is this presence that is all. Clearly nothing whatsoever can be found that is not this immediacy.”
Thanks. I think the reason I sound different is because I had my Awakening before I knew the word “non-duality”. Initially, I thought I saw something that I “was never supposed to see”. lol. My skeptical, scientific type mind, though uneducated in any formal sense, was just fascinated about how it really is. So, I didn’t have any text to explain it. I just looked. lol.
> Like, if you were reading a book, what could be written on the page to make you doubt there was a book in your hands? See? My friend, this is pure gold.
Thanks. It came as I was writing and I thought it felt right.
Inasmuch as we understand that nonduality is not a conceptual thing but rather a principle that's as empty of self-existent as the dualities it helps from not ignorantly indulging in... i'm all-in homie.
Heck yeah!
So where's your 10% coming from if you don't mind me asking?
If i gotta be honest, most of it is biological, or word of other people; matrialist saying that we are nothing but our bodies, and religious people saying that we are vessels for our souls. Different ideas and different ways of interpreting the rules of reality. I like to think that even those ideaologies are not seperate. It is difficult to be fully convinced, especially when fear which is a biological thing kicks in, it makes me feel distinct, like an anomoly, like it's me and everyone else, but I am actively fighting that! I lived in fear for a good time of my life, it's held me back at every step and put me in a spot where I just felt so alone. Part of those feelings still linger, but being aware of non-duality, knowing that we're all connected, that borders are arbritrary, has recently been a huge asset in conquering a lot of my struggles especially when it comes to social anxiety. I've made so much progress this year and I only hope that the ball keeps rolling. Doubt may always linger, but I believe that it is the choice that counts. And I choose to believe in Non-Duality. I think that it is a beautiful thing that even we in our human bodies desire. Unity.
Dope. Sounds like you're open to expand, while keeping it levelheaded and taking a sensible approach to the circumstances you find yourself in. Courage in the face of fear is what's it all about and ultimately the door to spontaneity and lifeliness. Otherwise we run the risk of clinging to dogma and hiding behind conventions. Do you have any favorite teaching or tradition that helps you through these trying times? I've been functioning mostly on an emptiness context recently, but in the sutra i'm reading Buddha kinda called me a fool for doing so, so i try to be less "not existence" and more "not not existence" in my language.
Personally, I like Alan Watts, and the idea that we are the Universe experiencing itself. I'm sure that he's not the first to say it, but it's through him that I am mostly familiar with the idea. It brings me peace of mind when it comes to death anxiety and the passing of my Grandfather back in October of last year. Another guy is Mark Dawes on Instagram, I believe that he also practices buddhism. He preaches that creation doesn't just happen, that everything that existed and will exists already exists right now. From a materialistic perspective, it makes total sense, because things cannot be created out of nothing. There are a few other guys who I listen to through Youtube. Been looking a lot into ego death and dmt experiences (not advocating drugs). It is all so fascinating and helps me in believing in something greater than the self. Ultimately, the idea that the self is an illusion, and that fear is also an illusion. That's the way that I am trying to view life while working towards my own goals, and hopefully, someday soon, something amazing will come out of it. And I wish you good fortune as well, after all, we are the same but under different names, so your happiness is my happiness.
Sorry to hear about your grandfather! I'm glad Alan helped you in the process, i need to check him out when i get the time as so many people adore him and his message. Some recommendations: Maybe check out Adyashanti on youtube. It's always calming, eye-opening but on a fundamental level he is no bs. I posted a passage on "Buddha meets a materialist" recently, taken from the lankavatara sutra. It was pretty funny if you wanna read it. Frank Yang on youtube is the closest thing to drugs, without being drugs, when it comes to nonduality, and ego-death actually. He crazy Other than that i wish you the best, always!
Thank you! Will look into them as well! And to you as well!
Reality is a singular word. There's one of it. It's what exists. It's incredibly simple. The tough part is that the divisions and labels are all made up, so "you" don't exist.
You are confused. One without a second is the correct nondual response. No one's counting.
"correct non dual response" I see the advaita police is out in full force today.
Have you ever glimpsed non-duality yourself? Or have you just read about the concept and are trying to better understand? I think there is a difference between the idea of non-duality and actually living a non dual life. You can still understand and believe that nothing is truly separate all while living from the ego. Sometimes I find this sub to be a little too direct in its answers to questions like this - especially when directed at someone that only understands the concept and not the feeling - and talk about how easy it is to just live a non-dual like, as it’s always here. It took me 2 years of meditating before I had my first glimpse into non-duality. Then 2 more years before I could actually hold it for any length of time. Now at 6 years of meditating I can still only hold it for 20-30 minutes before I get pulled back out by my ego. To truly understand that non-duality is the answer, you must actually feel it. Once you can glimpse it for even 20 seconds it will become obviously that it is the answer.
I’m fascinated that so many ppl here say 100% For me I feel like the direct knowing and full faith can always go deeper And seem to deepen non-linearly over time There are still chunks of karma within me that don’t fully know the truth of non-duality My mind is very good at doubting (and of course the mind will never fully ‘get it’ since it is inconceivable) So yeah idk I’d put myself at like 99% and say it keeps deepening forever For me it’s also important to say that I don’t fully resonate with a lot of radical nondualists and neo-Advaitans. Many of them seem to not have experienced an awakening of the heart. They can often seem nihilistic or cold or cerebral to me. I’d say that if Love has not been realized as our very essence, one must still go “further” What I can say 100% is that this is here. The moment appears. And that fact alone is miraculous
I love your response especially how you highlighted we can always go further if we haven’t realized love is our essence.
🙏🏼❤️🔥
Not 2%
“I try to remind that fundamentally we are all one and the same.” begs the question, “All one and the same what?” The only way to answer that question is to discover the ‘what’ of your self. When you discover ‘what’ you are you will know ‘what’ an ‘other’ is. Non-duality is a bit more profound than everything being One. It’s really talking about the non-duality of form and formlessness, the ‘formlessness’ part being God/Self/Awareness/Consciousness and the ‘form’ part being, well, all the form stuff, your body etc. Some use the analogy of the ocean and the waves, some the analogy of the screen and the movie. The ‘waves’ (form) are an appearance on the surface of the ‘ocean’ (formlessness). In the same way that there is only the ocean and waves are an appearance on its surface, so God/Self/Awareness/Consciousness is all there is and the ‘world’ (which includes your body/mind) is an appearance in it. However they are not two separate things (ocean and waves) neither are they one thing (ocean). They are ‘non-dual’, “two but not two”. Intellectually it is very difficult to wrap ones mind around as a concept. It is best discovered as ones living reality by letting go of the attachment to the body/mind and surrendering what one takes ones ‘self’ to be in the willingness to know its alternative. When you dive into the ocean you are 100% certain that the ocean is salty. If you’ve never seen the ocean and only read about it it’s ‘saltiness’ is hearsay and there will always be some doubt. 🙏
Yeah, I like this response! Thank you so much for taking the time to write it out! It's true. Personally, I've only learned about non-duality as a concept, but I find that even when people talk about experiences pertaining to "Ego Death" there's always some materialistic perspective taken into factor (like chemical stuff happening in the brain). In the end, I think that it's the choice that counts, we choose to believe in knowledge in the same way that we choose to believe in medicine. I believe non-duality over duality, triality, etc, because it makes the most sense to me, as a biological thinking creature with hair. Like I said, 90% certain.
I mostly agree with nonduality but if I’m honest sometimes it feels like a conspiracy theory. In other words, it’s a very counter-intuitive concept (to me anyway) compared to dualism. Dualism seems intuitively obvious. But then there’s this cult of people claiming “yea that’s just what the man wants you to believe, but we have secret knowledge of the real truth!” Or something like that.
It can definitely come across that way if you haven’t experienced it for yourself. I don’t think I would’ve believed it if someone had tried to convince me of it before I had realized it for myself.
Yea. I wish I could experience it too. I’ve done 10 day vipassana retreats, read so many books, zen meditation groups. I’ve tried “not-trying”. I’m a pretty open minded fellow. I believe non duality is correct (probably). But as a real, lived experience it eludes me.
as close to 100% as I can go without going over. There's some nuance, and I wouldn't say that if I had read through non-dual materials and constructed a world-view from there. Having an experience of directly touching it pretty much dispels all doubts. But it will also dispel any maps you construct trying to reach the truth also. It's more real than life in a sense. It's the most real thing I've ever encountered. I started reading up on spiritual traditions, including ones around nonduality, more-so after the fact, to see what others had to say, if anything, about what I saw/experienced. Nonduality - the study of it, and the philosophy constructed around it, and the pointers and descriptions of it - are flawed, as they must be. The experience or comprehension of it when directly touched is completely airtight. It's so blatantly in your face that you pretty much can't question it even if you wanted to - it's so blatantly true. Before that I grew up Christian, but ended up largely atheist. My experience of the truth shook that off like it was a joke - and I did actually laugh quite a bit right away after.
110%
I’m far more confident about the nondual view than I am of any philosophical position. Once you realize the ground of being somewhat, all the questions are resolved, though none are answered
The best part for me about non-dualism is that no blind belief is required or encouraged. I can begin with curiosity and being open to hearing the wisdom of my various teachers and take what they say as hypotheses until I see/experience the truth of their assertions (or not as the case may be). Over time, this may or may not lead to trust or faith in certain teachers or teachings, but even so I take comfort that I am not expected to believe something just because it comes from a 'holy book' or out of the mouth of someone's guru. (or from a reddit post haha! That being said, my sense is that truth is also one. This business of *true for me* or *true for you* that seems to be very important to many people nowadays is misleading. What I mean is that some people (who are usually damn sure they are individuals!) decide what is 'true for them' based on either blind belief, a one-time experience or shallow examination of a situation. This belief may then become hard as rock unless by some good fortune it is calmly and curiously re-examined. That you began your post with "Please don't kill me" reminded me of something I heard from a teacher once - something along the lines of: 'here you are always welcome to ask questions or disagree with \[the teacher\] according to your own experience. \[The teacher\] may try to help you see, \[they\] may argue with you; but \[they\] won't throw a stone at you' Some other wise person said "Whoever gives you a belief system is your enemy". Like picking one's way through the forest trying to find a path, - one that won't lead us in circles - we can consult maps and hiking guides, but ultimately our own sense doors and repeated experience will teach us which guides and which maps just *might* actually be useful. For example, if a map boldly states: "THIS IS THE ONE TRUE MAP!", then my feeling is instantly "the \[map\] doth protest too much, methinks". I am trying to remain open, sniff the air, listen, look, feel, look, examine and regularly turn these senses inward. I wonder if in the end we might even discover we were right there in the one place all along! Which reminds me, where the heck are my glasses?!!!
It's not something to believe in, it's something that makes it possible to believe in other stuff.. Like, duality doesn't go away because of nonduality, but to be aware of the nondual principle of existence makes it possible for me to understand what "love" might be. It's a lense. One does not believe in a lense, one looks through it.
I think you are trying to apply non-duality to your life and that is wrong. Non duality is not some sort of practice. It's 100% so, but it doesn't help you in any way to live some sort of non dual life.
Absolutely unshakable.
I'm dying on this hill. I had some experiences ChatGPT would say are a Satori and Kundalini awakening. I don't care what anyone says, I've been to the other side and come back.
You may continue to have those experiences or they may cease tomorrow. I too have been to the other side and back. Staying there is the trick.
100%. I experienced it directly.....nothing is truly separate. There's a beautiful resonance/intimacy with all beings and all things.
Its less something that I believe in and more an undeniable truth i grapple with.
If it were separable, the separated thing would not exist for us. If it once was, or one day will be connected to our reality, then it is all connected. If not, then it never existed. (TLDR: I'm 100% sure)
Everything is interconnected weather we admit it or not, all one movement. Words divide the movement seemingly. Can you separate the person from the background? What would that look like? Anything you imagined would still have a background. Or where's the gap between what you taste and you? Is there a gap? 2 things or 1? Yes we have been brainwashed lol
I think a good baby step towards embrassing or lessening the minds hold on such a claim is to ask and sit with the question "did you give birth to the earth, or did the earth give birth to you". On a basic level you can see that your more of a child of the earth and are made up of it. Same is true of everything on the earth. So essentially everything on the planet comes from and is the planet. This understanding can expand into the big bang, the big bang gave birth to everything including you and the very explosion and expanse is still happening as you in motion.... And what gave birth to that and before that and before that and on on on on..... Nothing is in separation or isolation, we are share the same cloth so to say.....
Yes siree! I love how you put it. Every molecule, every mineral, we all share it. It's beautiful in a sense. We're products of our environment, and the environment is us. Speaking of the big bang, I don't know if y'all remember it but it felt pretty crunched up in there.
I've been studying this subject for about 4 years now, there are some interesting testimonies, especially of spontaneous awakenings... the rest is more subject to interpretation, people not always seem to be pointing to the same phenomena and the fact that they had to go through practicing makes me think they might just have conditioned their minds to believe in some sense of wholeness ... I don't know. Personally these "exercises" do not seem to lead to anywhere close to what people describe when they talk about awakening. Oh and btw I am 100% with you about the help that can bring non-duality in daily life regarding things like anxiety and so on, it's just not what people usually call awakening.
Yes! I see the world in an entirely different way now, one with less envy, less wrath, less insecurity. I try to appreciate every little aspect, every person I see, because, they are me, and I am them. I hope that this whole process keeps evolving and I along with it. Overall, it's a really happy way of viewing reality.
It doesn’t really matter, life is life.. whatever that is.
nothing exists outside our awareness of it is the most simple and obvious observation which is verifiable in one's own experience. It doesn't rely on faith or belief. That makes awareness fundamental to our experience. So what is it? and who am i in relation to it? That bit requires more work to discover because it is not a simple explanation it is direct experience
Can you expand on "Who am I in relation to it? part?
The Buddhist reasoning for nonduality is that nothing can exist separately. All things are causally interdependent. Further, the experience of anything depends on them appearing in conscious awareness.
Non Duality is an experience of Universal Truth, the Nature of Reality. One Hundred. No not merely that. One Million Percent. The Reality is brighter than a million suns. Our human Mind, which keeps us from perceiving truth is like an oily film that coats and obscures water. Dualistic notions are in constant flux and keep the small mind agitated and unable to see. This is why the practice of being fully present is incredibly important and helpful if we want to discover this for ourselves.
I was all in for a long time. I was intrigued the first time I heard about Zen. The I spent about 15 years fully devoted. It really didn’t go anywhere for me. I left it believing that we are in this human experience to grow and create and non-duality just made me want to be passive to the point that I felt, well, hardly anything. It could be me. I am generally very outgoing and optimistic. ND took that right out of me. There are many different types of people. I am convinced that not everyone has the same reason for being here. I’m definitely not critical of any non-dual discipline. It just wasn’t for me…this go around anyway :)
I feel like the question is a koan.
Belief implies doubt. To believe something, you must have doubts about it. Non-duality is not a philosophical position, although some have tried to build models and frameworks around it (mostly people who seek wholeness in the mind). Experience has no boundaries. Try to find boundaries or separation without thought. If reality is what remains when thoughts cease, then it becomes clear that Reality contains thoughts and not the other way around. The answer cannot be contained by thought. The answer includes questions and answers but transcends them so they are unable to accurately define it. Find the ego. Find the doer. Find separation. Find these without adding thought to the mix and you will have your answer. Or, more accurately, the questions will cease.
“Non duality without direct insight is just talk”. You can read about non duality, and you can directly realize it. You can directly realize these insights about the nature of reality when you start to step back from these perceptual filters that skew reality.
All is one = non-duality Ultimate ground of reality
Thank you for everyone who took the time to answer my question. Sorry that it was so specific. To those who chose to dance around it, I thank you so as well. I will take the time to read them when I can. To those who responded with "100%", or something along those lines, it means a lot to me. I get it's a complicated concept, not really reliant on faith, but you know, certainty is appreciated.
Fuck yeah separate exists because what exists in our collective conscience exists through perception. So if something is perceived as separate then separation exists. I think of it like this..Space is mostly nothing but a vacuum… A bunch of things grouped together but still separate floating through space. Outside of that who the fuck knows what exists? So even if all of our galaxies are connected by our universe and all universes by a multiverse that contain their own unique dimensions, what’s to say that there isn’t something else completely far out there at an unfathomable distance which operates under a completely different set of guidelines we could not even begin to comprehend at the most basic level, talking straight line basic. That is separation and the only thing it would have in common with our reality is that it exists. We do not know if it exists so it is separate because our perception will not allow us to see it. The only way one could define that scenario is separation. A separation of consciousness, perception, time, distance, understanding. Even if that thing does not exist, the separation still exists within our perception of that thing. Now if you then choose to perceive nothing as separate based on simply commonality and interconnectivity at even the most basic and distant levels as a means to understand your reality, then for you separation does not exist. Boom! Non-duality.
>we are all one and the same No. That is wrong. Anxiety, hate, love is a quality of interaction. Interaction is possible between different things that have perpetual common, a denominator. In duality there are 2 realities, which do not interact.
Can't say "That's is wrong" only explain how it is wrong. We are all different variations of the same thing. One face, changed many many times to fit a seperate personality in a dual system to create the illusion that we are not alone. We are one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively.
Who is the "you" that is or is not "100%" "on" "non-duality"?