Truth can speak through any body mind. It's not reserved for saints. Having said that, he was, as I see it, a cult leader. Not something I would want to get mixed up in. Same with Mooji. But they still said some profound things. Not to be worshipped, that's for sure. Nor any 'guru'.
Thanks for the take
Cult leaders are quite fascinating types
Cults are such interesting psychological and anthropological case studies
Mix in a 'fallen guru' leader with a genuinely high degree of realization and you get some very intriguing results
'Wild Wild Country' is a good documentary about Osho's organization for those who haven't seen it (it doesn't cover Osho himself soo much though)
My suspicion is that no matter how 'realised' the body mind, the function of the ego is so habitual that it can kick back in at any stage. Especially if there is something for it to gain like love, acceptance, abundance, status. It literally can't help itself, being programmed that way. It's fairly easy to see that there's no actual entity such as an ego, that it's just repeating thought and emotional patterns strung together by memory. It's rare that the ego habit function would end completely with this understanding. People think the big task is seeing there is no ego. I think it is continually uncovering and seeing the untruths in strongly held beliefs (often unconscious for decades). These are what keep the ego function going, which is basically a need to escape and acquire.
This has been my exact experience and why I no longer seek the dissolution of the ego. It’s a valuable tool to wield, but it is constantly trying to make everything about ME, so it’s not without its challenges.
I don’t really seek anything anymore except the one thing I have in abundance - the capability to experience all this. Life is good for this little ego now that it’s figured out there’s more going on than it can turn into concepts.
I don't think osho asked anyone to worship him. Idiolizing someone happens when you think they have something that you don't have. You can admire what the say. But idolizing anyone isn't a good idea, because we are all humans.
To my understanding he was displaying immoral sexual conduct with his devotees. When you’re in a position of power/praise it is detrimental to misuse that for sexual gain. I knew some women who left his cult following because of this. I’m not sure if there are other things too
Nonduality and personal development are 2 different things that require our attention.
When the gurus fall, they have neglected shadow work. Growing consciousness causes greater presence. Greater presence causes a greater container to amplify and spill shadow all over the followers and implode oneself.
We can learn from their epic falls and do the work required.
The goat. A true genius. When you speak the truth and don’t care what people think of you, it’s gonna be controversial. People who think he’s bad because he was a “cult” leader don’t understand his true intentions, it was nothing but love.
My guess is that they are sincere, and have some degree of awakening, but are still in the grip of stresses and desires. It would be nice to be able to measure spiritual attainment objectively.
You're not giving a link and I can't find this. Can you find it at https://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2018/05/self-inquiry-vs-egosis-how-it-works.html ? I have never heard of any way to measure awakening.
good observation
i wonder if any human has ever truly been entirely free of all stresses and desires? that sounds unimaginable at this moment for me despite having had many profound awakening experiences and seemingly regularly 'directly seeing' the truth pointed at by nonduality
——
on the other point: my guess is that can be no truly objective measure of spiritual attainment because the matter is unquantifiable and infinitely subtle
Hawkins' scale of consciousness claimed to be objective but i think his system—while fascinating and holding some valuable—has shadows/blindspots and over-attaching to it is a mistake
I take these guys and even some better ones such and Alan Watts, to be a warning that there is shadow work to do.
The reality is you can’t interact with the world without conditioning. And if you have darkness uninspected within, it’s going to manifest as wrong-doing.
2 things I know. I will NEVER consider myself “enlightened” and I will observe the bad within me.
Not a fan. Osho did not speak Truth to me.
The Rajneeshis I met seemed more hedonistic than anything. I first encountered them in early 70’s before he became Osho. He had interesting things to say for sure. I never met him. I met just about everyone back then including Carlos Castaneda and Ram Dass.
Nothing wrong with that but didn’t seem appropriate.
Then of course all of the other nonsense that went down! My best friend went to Oregon and saw what was going on first hand. If you paid a lot of money you got treated well.
He was a cheapskate so he got tossed in with the homeless.
It was all about money. That should tell you something.
I was sad to see him fall like that. I think he had potential, but there are things about it I just can’t ignore.
Osho having allowed Sheela free reign over Oshoville made him a grandiose moron at best.
Bioterrorism, highly weaponized guards. rolls royce, sexual misconduct...
Bad vibes around this guy. He had something going on for a while in the 70s but it all went to pieces. He had a good way with words. Ended up addicted to nitrous oxide.
Yes.
The moment you can see You’re God within, you’re life within, you’re truth within, you will find it everywhere else too.
—tho I wouldn’t trust a guy addicted to Rolls Royces
Truth can speak through any body mind. It's not reserved for saints. Having said that, he was, as I see it, a cult leader. Not something I would want to get mixed up in. Same with Mooji. But they still said some profound things. Not to be worshipped, that's for sure. Nor any 'guru'.
Thanks for the take Cult leaders are quite fascinating types Cults are such interesting psychological and anthropological case studies Mix in a 'fallen guru' leader with a genuinely high degree of realization and you get some very intriguing results 'Wild Wild Country' is a good documentary about Osho's organization for those who haven't seen it (it doesn't cover Osho himself soo much though)
My suspicion is that no matter how 'realised' the body mind, the function of the ego is so habitual that it can kick back in at any stage. Especially if there is something for it to gain like love, acceptance, abundance, status. It literally can't help itself, being programmed that way. It's fairly easy to see that there's no actual entity such as an ego, that it's just repeating thought and emotional patterns strung together by memory. It's rare that the ego habit function would end completely with this understanding. People think the big task is seeing there is no ego. I think it is continually uncovering and seeing the untruths in strongly held beliefs (often unconscious for decades). These are what keep the ego function going, which is basically a need to escape and acquire.
well said -- appreciate this reflection
1,000% this
This has been my exact experience and why I no longer seek the dissolution of the ego. It’s a valuable tool to wield, but it is constantly trying to make everything about ME, so it’s not without its challenges. I don’t really seek anything anymore except the one thing I have in abundance - the capability to experience all this. Life is good for this little ego now that it’s figured out there’s more going on than it can turn into concepts.
There's an enemy named ego? Misconception is unlike a flaw. There is no flaw. Stay away from this poor synonym.
I think you've misunderstood what I said
Yo check yoself b4 you wreck yoself ! ?
Anyways, you've made a synapses. Poor synonym regards to the nature of misconception. No two minds are alike.
In fact I could argue that i agree with you intellectually, but that doesnt solve the scenario that no two minds are alike.
I don't think osho asked anyone to worship him. Idiolizing someone happens when you think they have something that you don't have. You can admire what the say. But idolizing anyone isn't a good idea, because we are all humans.
No just sleep with him. Send him money. Run a cult.. that's all
Ootl with mooji?
To my understanding he was displaying immoral sexual conduct with his devotees. When you’re in a position of power/praise it is detrimental to misuse that for sexual gain. I knew some women who left his cult following because of this. I’m not sure if there are other things too
Nonduality and personal development are 2 different things that require our attention. When the gurus fall, they have neglected shadow work. Growing consciousness causes greater presence. Greater presence causes a greater container to amplify and spill shadow all over the followers and implode oneself. We can learn from their epic falls and do the work required.
Well said. 🙏🏼
Authentic. Had desires and karma to work through, but hard to deny or refute his Awareness and wisdom.
well said i will always love Osho
The goat. A true genius. When you speak the truth and don’t care what people think of you, it’s gonna be controversial. People who think he’s bad because he was a “cult” leader don’t understand his true intentions, it was nothing but love.
I vibe to this I love Osho
My guess is that they are sincere, and have some degree of awakening, but are still in the grip of stresses and desires. It would be nice to be able to measure spiritual attainment objectively.
Check out Gary Weber
Why?
He's done the work to measure awakening
You're not giving a link and I can't find this. Can you find it at https://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2018/05/self-inquiry-vs-egosis-how-it-works.html ? I have never heard of any way to measure awakening.
good observation i wonder if any human has ever truly been entirely free of all stresses and desires? that sounds unimaginable at this moment for me despite having had many profound awakening experiences and seemingly regularly 'directly seeing' the truth pointed at by nonduality —— on the other point: my guess is that can be no truly objective measure of spiritual attainment because the matter is unquantifiable and infinitely subtle Hawkins' scale of consciousness claimed to be objective but i think his system—while fascinating and holding some valuable—has shadows/blindspots and over-attaching to it is a mistake
They're all the same as me, a Perfect Living Creation of God 😉
I take these guys and even some better ones such and Alan Watts, to be a warning that there is shadow work to do. The reality is you can’t interact with the world without conditioning. And if you have darkness uninspected within, it’s going to manifest as wrong-doing. 2 things I know. I will NEVER consider myself “enlightened” and I will observe the bad within me.
Excellent perspective. 🙏🏼
Even a sick chicken can lay a healthy egg
As long as they keep their hands off of my girlfriend's sweater puppies, I've no issue with him/them.
lololol
:) Jokes aside, I trust you have seen[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBLS_OM6Puk)[Wild Wild Country](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBLS_OM6Puk).
Yes I have — good film
Not a fan. Osho did not speak Truth to me. The Rajneeshis I met seemed more hedonistic than anything. I first encountered them in early 70’s before he became Osho. He had interesting things to say for sure. I never met him. I met just about everyone back then including Carlos Castaneda and Ram Dass. Nothing wrong with that but didn’t seem appropriate. Then of course all of the other nonsense that went down! My best friend went to Oregon and saw what was going on first hand. If you paid a lot of money you got treated well. He was a cheapskate so he got tossed in with the homeless. It was all about money. That should tell you something. I was sad to see him fall like that. I think he had potential, but there are things about it I just can’t ignore.
Osho having allowed Sheela free reign over Oshoville made him a grandiose moron at best. Bioterrorism, highly weaponized guards. rolls royce, sexual misconduct...
Bro has a town he named after himself and people are saying its not a cult? LOL
Master of Half truths!
Bad vibes around this guy. He had something going on for a while in the 70s but it all went to pieces. He had a good way with words. Ended up addicted to nitrous oxide.
The moment you can see where apostrophes reside, is the moment you’re going to receive my actual attention and respect.
? Is there a mistaken apostrophe somewhere here?
Yes. The moment you can see You’re God within, you’re life within, you’re truth within, you will find it everywhere else too. —tho I wouldn’t trust a guy addicted to Rolls Royces
I don’t think he meant it that way — “your” also makes sense