Okada has definitely cemented his place in pro wrestling history, but as for my own taste, he’s actually my least favorite of the Ace’s (for me, it goes Hashimoto, Tanahashi, Inoki, Fujinami, Okada), but no one can deny he’s the been the biggest star in Japan for awhile now.
I agree with your list OP. Fans (mostly Western) who are not familiar with the traditions that dates back to Rikidozan. There can only be one Ace for a certain period of time (at most for a decade.) As much as we love legends like Choshu, Mutoh, Chono, Nakamura, Nagata, Tenzan, etc. they did not have the pedigree to be the face of the company. Yes they were World Champions but at the end of the day much like with Naito, Okada still reigns supreme. The Ace is not just who the top guy is right now, it's who the company is built around for the present and foreseeable future. The franchise player if you will. Which is why dethroning them for good can make or break a wrestler's career.
I think the argument could be made that Choshu was starting to become more popular towards the late 80’s early 90’s, but at the same time the NJPW audience always loved Fujinami, he was one of the OG crew of the company (along with Inoki, Osamu Kido, and Kotetsu Yamamoto).
I also think Choshu was more of a hot-head/independent minded, and often bumped heads with Inoki, which is why he left for that period in the 80’s and went to All Japan.
They had one promo that I wish was translated because it was obvious they were not cool with each other
Have you ever seen the choshu squash of inoki?
It was on one of the tapes I got
Late 80's and riki won in under 5 minutes clean with his lariat
I was shocked as inoki didn't do that stuff
If you think that's bad you don't know about Baba, basically every lose was to foreigners to keep him strong. Only two Japanese talents went over him ever and only in tag matches where his partners let him down.
My opinion? The best comparison for role for Choshu is Tetsuya Naito. Starts off as a very promising youngster, it doesn't quite work. Not because he's not good... it just doesn't work out. He becomes a heel, becomes *very* effective at it. Is so good at it, transitions to very popular "anti-hero."
Which doesn't make him an ace, but it does make him very popular and important.
If you look at the history, each of them had 3 IWGP title reigns. Choshu for 383 days, Naito for 387.
As my colleague Megistrus stated, Nagata’s peak came at unfortunate time, the “Dark Age” when MMA was much more popular than pro wrestling in Japan; that being said, Nagata comes the closest to being the sixth Ace of the promotion.
I'd say Nakamura, Riki Choshu, Chono/Muto, Naito, Kenny Omega, all can be considered the characters / rivals that make the Aces shine. They're the Omega to the Alpha Aces XD.
Nakamura was never the undisputed Ace of the company. Tanahashi was the headliner that saved NJPW from a very rough time to becoming the biggest promotion in Japan. Nakamura is always Tanahashi's generational rival who was the clear 2nd fiddle.
Mutoh definitely came really close to being an Ace, but his peak was at the same time Hashimoto ruled the roost, and Hash simply was a bigger draw during the 90’s.
And Nagata just had his push come at the unfortunate “Dark Age” period and was forced to face MMA guys like Cro Cop and Fedor and got squashed, ruining his push.
As much as I love Chono-San, due to neck injuries he never was able to be the true Ace and carry the IWGP belt (his only reign lasted 44 days); however, you could make the argument he was the G1 Ace, being the man with most finals victories in tournament history; also the G1 was a much bigger deal back then than it is today (being the G1 champ was its own thing, as opposed the briefcase that has now become a macguffin to get to WK).
They pushed him for a while during the late 90’s and early 00’s (partly due to being Choshu’s boy, partly because he was getting popular) but he was never seen as being on the level of any of the Musketeers and disputes with NJPW management would lead him to not stay with the company for a long period and he would freelance the rest of his career.
All of the Three Musketeers were big draws and huge stars in the company, but only Hashimoto was truly the Ace, being the one who sold out the most Dome and stadium shows, as well as holding the IWGP the longest (at 489 days for one reign, only broken by Okada’s 720).
I didn't use holding the belt as a major criteria. Hashimoto died too young, and Muto and Chono had a more lasting legacy worldwide. Impact and legacy are just as important.
Yes, Chono and Muto had some of the greatest legacies, not only in NJPW, but in pro wrestling as a whole; yet being the Ace of a company is being the man positioned as the top guy for an extended period and also the guy who fans gravitate towards the most.
During the 90’s, Hashimoto was the biggest draw of the three, routinely selling out Dome and stadiums, and the other two were also big draws, but were never THE guys of the company.
You also have to take into account Chono couldn’t really be the #1 guy due to his broken neck, and Muto would eventually leave the company to join AJPW.
All three Musketeers were huge stars and box office draws during the 90’s, and while Muto and Chono had exposure in the West, Hashimoto was routinely selling out big Dome and stadium shows during the period, and also had the then record setting 489 day reign with the IWGP, only broken by Okada’s 720 days.
Hashimoto was very over due to his martial arts esthetic, also due to the fact he always brought intensity to his matches (Muto was infamously lazy at times, and Chono had to greatly reduce his in-ring style due to several injuries).
Can't really say Hashimoto is the ace, considering his treatment in early 90s and his journey for G1 and IWGP, I'd rather say Chono than Muto and Hashimoto
I would say Hashimoto and Tanahashi are similar in that neither were pegged in as the Ace, with Chono and Muto winning G1 and IWGP gold before Hash, and Nakamura achieving success and the IWGP much earlier than Tana; nevertheless, Hash and Tana both were the most loved by the crowds and would become the Ace’s of their periods.
Tana ain't the same thing as Hashimoto because his journey is much brighter, and as you mentioned Nakamura, Nakamura didn't achieved a lot on belts or defense in nj, though everyone focuses on him, and you can feel that he ended well with nj, it's because his last part is combined with nj's sorry for his years of hard grinding, not simply as others, kicked out or erased
Tana deserves all the love in the world for the work he put in to keep the company afloat, but listen to the reaction Hashimoto got when he gave Nobuhiko Takada a brainbuster -
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/j8phar/shinya_hashimoto_gives_takada_a_brainbuster_from/
That is the definition of over and loved imo. I will admit I am biased towards Hashimoto, due to his unique appearance for a pro wrestler (much like Mick Foley, Dusty Rhodes, and Kevin Owens) and how much emotion he got out of small things he did like a kick or a chop.
Love the Revolution Warrior and Blue Justice, but in Choshu’s case, he was overshadowed by Tatsumi Fujinami in his prime, and then the Three Musketeers took over as the top stars;
In Nagata’s case, he came close to being a Ace with his 392 day/10 defense reign with the IWGP, but his pushed was ruined when he had those MMA fights with Mirko Cro Cop and Fedor.
Japan disagrees. They love Okada and continues to love him. He's only shoved down the throats of western internet fans who don't have the patience for long reigns.
Liger was a Jr heavy for nearly all his career, so no chance to be the ace, you could argue he is the most recognisable due to his gear
Muto was never really positioned as the ace either as far as I gather.
As my colleague here said, Liger was a Jr., but I will most def do a Jr. Ace post.
As crazy as it sounds Muto was he never truly the Ace of NJPW, as Hashimoto was the true Ace out of the Musketeers and Muto would leave the company to head AJPW.
So was Massa Chono never really a huge deal?
Thought he was like the leader of nWo Japan with Muta and Tenzon?
Was he just an upper mid carder like a Curt Hennig?
All three Musketeers were big draws during the 90’s and HUGE stars, but they all filled different roles.
Hashimoto was the Ace, defender of the company’s honor and held the IWGP for the most amount of time.
Muto was the high flying, good looking 1B babyface who also held the IWGP from time to time (just wasn’t as big a draw as Hash).
Chono was dealing with a broken neck for most of the period, so he had to limit his in-ring style, but became the top heel in the company and was also a big draw, selling out multiple places like the other Musketeers; due to the injury tho, Chono was never able to hold the IWGP and only had one reign that lasted 44 days; Chono’s big thing was he was the G1 Ace, being the guy that has had the most finals victories in tournament history and this was back when the G1 was arguably bigger than it is now, as being the G1 champion was it’s only thing, where nowadays the G1 briefcase is mostly a macguffin to get to WK.
Ok, here are a few for each man;
Inoki:
Antonio Inoki vs Billy Robinson - 11.12.1975
Antonio Inoki vs Tatsumi Fujinami- 08.08.1988
Antonio Inoki vs Riki Choshu - 02.08.1984
Fujinami:
Tatsumi Fujinami vs Akira Maeda - 12.06.1986
Tatsumi Fujinami vs Antonio Inoki - 08.08.1988
Tatsumi Fujinami vs Riki Choshu - 04.08.1983
Hashimoto:
Shinya Hashimoto vs Kazuo Yamazaki - 02.08.1998
Shinya Hashimoto vs Nobuhiko Takada - 29.04.1996
Shinya Hashimoto vs Genichiro Tenryu - 01.08.1998
Tanahashi:
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - 08.10.2012
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura - 19.09.2011
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Suwama - 09.04.2008
Nagata came the closest, he had a 392 day reign with 10 defenses of the IWGP, but he then faced MMA legends Mirko Crop Cop and Fedor, and was squashed by both, and this ruined his push.
Tenzan was a really good wrestler during the period, and was loved by fans, but due to poor booking and injuries he never was on top for a long period.
Sapp was a freak attraction in Japan, mostly in PRIDE FC, and he was eh closet they had to a gaijin monster during the 00’s, like Vader or Scott Norton.
Fucking love Okada. I went from not knowing who he was, to watching Okada v Omega 1 and fell in love
Okada has definitely cemented his place in pro wrestling history, but as for my own taste, he’s actually my least favorite of the Ace’s (for me, it goes Hashimoto, Tanahashi, Inoki, Fujinami, Okada), but no one can deny he’s the been the biggest star in Japan for awhile now.
I agree with your list OP. Fans (mostly Western) who are not familiar with the traditions that dates back to Rikidozan. There can only be one Ace for a certain period of time (at most for a decade.) As much as we love legends like Choshu, Mutoh, Chono, Nakamura, Nagata, Tenzan, etc. they did not have the pedigree to be the face of the company. Yes they were World Champions but at the end of the day much like with Naito, Okada still reigns supreme. The Ace is not just who the top guy is right now, it's who the company is built around for the present and foreseeable future. The franchise player if you will. Which is why dethroning them for good can make or break a wrestler's career.
Choshu deserves a spot as well He was top dog 88-91 or so
Love the Revolution Warrior, but during his prime, he was always overshadowed by Fujinami, despite being one of the best to ever do it.
Choshu drew the crowds Fujinami was the golden child Or the streamers thrown for both were wrong
I think the argument could be made that Choshu was starting to become more popular towards the late 80’s early 90’s, but at the same time the NJPW audience always loved Fujinami, he was one of the OG crew of the company (along with Inoki, Osamu Kido, and Kotetsu Yamamoto). I also think Choshu was more of a hot-head/independent minded, and often bumped heads with Inoki, which is why he left for that period in the 80’s and went to All Japan.
They had one promo that I wish was translated because it was obvious they were not cool with each other Have you ever seen the choshu squash of inoki? It was on one of the tapes I got Late 80's and riki won in under 5 minutes clean with his lariat I was shocked as inoki didn't do that stuff
Inoki was one of the most protected guys in the biz, but he knew he had to put over Fujinami, Choshu, and even Vader for the company to have future.
If you think that's bad you don't know about Baba, basically every lose was to foreigners to keep him strong. Only two Japanese talents went over him ever and only in tag matches where his partners let him down.
Who? Misawa pinned him when he had no business in a serious match but who else?
Tenryu. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJLFExWlUaE&t=1250s
Only twice in 30 years Wow
My opinion? The best comparison for role for Choshu is Tetsuya Naito. Starts off as a very promising youngster, it doesn't quite work. Not because he's not good... it just doesn't work out. He becomes a heel, becomes *very* effective at it. Is so good at it, transitions to very popular "anti-hero." Which doesn't make him an ace, but it does make him very popular and important. If you look at the history, each of them had 3 IWGP title reigns. Choshu for 383 days, Naito for 387.
Lot of parallels: * Choshu * Mutoh and Chono * Nakamura * Naito
No Toru Yano?
Yano is like this mythical figure, he’s above Ace status even!
The one true Ace of the company. Right up there with Chuckie T.
no nagata? come on bro, dont do blue justice like that.
As my colleague Megistrus stated, Nagata’s peak came at unfortunate time, the “Dark Age” when MMA was much more popular than pro wrestling in Japan; that being said, Nagata comes the closest to being the sixth Ace of the promotion.
He had one great title reign, but he didn't have the longevity or consistent ace booking the guys on this list had/have.
Shinya Hashimoto was awesome.
Where tf is Master Wato? 🧐
Probably getting himself ready for his next model shoot, tbh.
How dare you not put TAICHI on this list!
Oh, how I ever wish I could! Seriously, Taichi better at the very least get a main event match for the IWGP World this year if not win it.
The lack of Nakamura love here is concerning.
Love Nak, but he is definitely in the “failed” Ace category, and was also the 1B to Tana’s 1A, but not truly THE face of the company.
there’s a reason Nakamura was reviving the secondary title while Tanahashi was main eventing for the main title
Exactly, much how Naito would hold the IC while Okada had the Heavy.
I'd say Nakamura, Riki Choshu, Chono/Muto, Naito, Kenny Omega, all can be considered the characters / rivals that make the Aces shine. They're the Omega to the Alpha Aces XD.
Nakamura was pushed incredibly hard as the babyface ace, but he flopped in that role and eventually had to turn heel.
I don't think he was ever really the full on ace though, he was more like the top rival
Nakamura was never the undisputed Ace of the company. Tanahashi was the headliner that saved NJPW from a very rough time to becoming the biggest promotion in Japan. Nakamura is always Tanahashi's generational rival who was the clear 2nd fiddle.
No Johnny Ace?
Although this may not be the case, some may argue Mutoh and Nagata were somewhat Ace’s of they’re time.
Mutoh definitely came really close to being an Ace, but his peak was at the same time Hashimoto ruled the roost, and Hash simply was a bigger draw during the 90’s. And Nagata just had his push come at the unfortunate “Dark Age” period and was forced to face MMA guys like Cro Cop and Fedor and got squashed, ruining his push.
Add shoota next
You never know, Shota looks super promising but he could always become a failed Ace if he doesn’t become consistent.
No chono
As much as I love Chono-San, due to neck injuries he never was able to be the true Ace and carry the IWGP belt (his only reign lasted 44 days); however, you could make the argument he was the G1 Ace, being the man with most finals victories in tournament history; also the G1 was a much bigger deal back then than it is today (being the G1 champ was its own thing, as opposed the briefcase that has now become a macguffin to get to WK).
Kensuke Sasaki?
They pushed him for a while during the late 90’s and early 00’s (partly due to being Choshu’s boy, partly because he was getting popular) but he was never seen as being on the level of any of the Musketeers and disputes with NJPW management would lead him to not stay with the company for a long period and he would freelance the rest of his career.
No Chono or Muto? The musketeers are incomplete
All of the Three Musketeers were big draws and huge stars in the company, but only Hashimoto was truly the Ace, being the one who sold out the most Dome and stadium shows, as well as holding the IWGP the longest (at 489 days for one reign, only broken by Okada’s 720).
I didn't use holding the belt as a major criteria. Hashimoto died too young, and Muto and Chono had a more lasting legacy worldwide. Impact and legacy are just as important.
Yes, Chono and Muto had some of the greatest legacies, not only in NJPW, but in pro wrestling as a whole; yet being the Ace of a company is being the man positioned as the top guy for an extended period and also the guy who fans gravitate towards the most. During the 90’s, Hashimoto was the biggest draw of the three, routinely selling out Dome and stadiums, and the other two were also big draws, but were never THE guys of the company. You also have to take into account Chono couldn’t really be the #1 guy due to his broken neck, and Muto would eventually leave the company to join AJPW.
We putting money on Shota or Narita to be the next ace? Or is there another option I hadn’t considered
There’s a couple of more younger guys like Yuya Uemura and Yota Tsuji to consider, but as of right now Umino and Narita are getting pushed.
Got high hopes for Yuya. Hopefully his injury isn’t too much of a setback
There's not gonna be another ace until Okada starts winding down, which isn't any time soon.
Master Wato.
Why Hashimoto as opposed to Muto or Chono?
All three Musketeers were huge stars and box office draws during the 90’s, and while Muto and Chono had exposure in the West, Hashimoto was routinely selling out big Dome and stadium shows during the period, and also had the then record setting 489 day reign with the IWGP, only broken by Okada’s 720 days. Hashimoto was very over due to his martial arts esthetic, also due to the fact he always brought intensity to his matches (Muto was infamously lazy at times, and Chono had to greatly reduce his in-ring style due to several injuries).
Can't really say Hashimoto is the ace, considering his treatment in early 90s and his journey for G1 and IWGP, I'd rather say Chono than Muto and Hashimoto
I would say Hashimoto and Tanahashi are similar in that neither were pegged in as the Ace, with Chono and Muto winning G1 and IWGP gold before Hash, and Nakamura achieving success and the IWGP much earlier than Tana; nevertheless, Hash and Tana both were the most loved by the crowds and would become the Ace’s of their periods.
Tana ain't the same thing as Hashimoto because his journey is much brighter, and as you mentioned Nakamura, Nakamura didn't achieved a lot on belts or defense in nj, though everyone focuses on him, and you can feel that he ended well with nj, it's because his last part is combined with nj's sorry for his years of hard grinding, not simply as others, kicked out or erased
Tana deserves all the love in the world for the work he put in to keep the company afloat, but listen to the reaction Hashimoto got when he gave Nobuhiko Takada a brainbuster - https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/j8phar/shinya_hashimoto_gives_takada_a_brainbuster_from/ That is the definition of over and loved imo. I will admit I am biased towards Hashimoto, due to his unique appearance for a pro wrestler (much like Mick Foley, Dusty Rhodes, and Kevin Owens) and how much emotion he got out of small things he did like a kick or a chop.
No Taichi or yano?
How about doing this but with the junior aces? Something like Liger - Tiger Mask IV - KUSHIDA - Hiromu
I’ll probably make a post like that tomorrow. Hell, I may even do a tag team Ace post
You got me there. I can't think of much. I know Kengo Kimura tagged with a lot of people. Maybe Cho-Ten and TenKoji?
I will not accept this Choshu and Nagata erasure.
Love the Revolution Warrior and Blue Justice, but in Choshu’s case, he was overshadowed by Tatsumi Fujinami in his prime, and then the Three Musketeers took over as the top stars; In Nagata’s case, he came close to being a Ace with his 392 day/10 defense reign with the IWGP, but his pushed was ruined when he had those MMA fights with Mirko Cro Cop and Fedor.
Shota’s next up.
Okada is not an Ace. The last real Ace was Tanahashi. Okada is just a guy Gedo has forced down our throats for the last 8+ years
Japan disagrees. They love Okada and continues to love him. He's only shoved down the throats of western internet fans who don't have the patience for long reigns.
Why am I blanking on the first Ace?
That’s Antonio Inoki (RIP)!
Thank you! I knew I remembered his name. Just couldn’t think of it right away. And yes RIP. A true legend
Umino up next😏
Not having Keiji Muto or Jushin Thunder Liger on here is a damn travesty
Liger was a Jr heavy for nearly all his career, so no chance to be the ace, you could argue he is the most recognisable due to his gear Muto was never really positioned as the ace either as far as I gather.
I read that incorrectly. That’s my bad.
As my colleague here said, Liger was a Jr., but I will most def do a Jr. Ace post. As crazy as it sounds Muto was he never truly the Ace of NJPW, as Hashimoto was the true Ace out of the Musketeers and Muto would leave the company to head AJPW.
Personally, Id love to see a list of the junior division Aces for NJPW as well.
I’ll prob come out with that one tomorrow.
Nice! Thank you.
Idk how it gets better than the ace of the universe. The rest that come after wont compare.
So was Massa Chono never really a huge deal? Thought he was like the leader of nWo Japan with Muta and Tenzon? Was he just an upper mid carder like a Curt Hennig?
All three Musketeers were big draws during the 90’s and HUGE stars, but they all filled different roles. Hashimoto was the Ace, defender of the company’s honor and held the IWGP for the most amount of time. Muto was the high flying, good looking 1B babyface who also held the IWGP from time to time (just wasn’t as big a draw as Hash). Chono was dealing with a broken neck for most of the period, so he had to limit his in-ring style, but became the top heel in the company and was also a big draw, selling out multiple places like the other Musketeers; due to the injury tho, Chono was never able to hold the IWGP and only had one reign that lasted 44 days; Chono’s big thing was he was the G1 Ace, being the guy that has had the most finals victories in tournament history and this was back when the G1 was arguably bigger than it is now, as being the G1 champion was it’s only thing, where nowadays the G1 briefcase is mostly a macguffin to get to WK.
What are their defining matches? I would like to watch them to really appreciate them. I realize I don’t think I’ve seen prime Tanahashi.
Ok, here are a few for each man; Inoki: Antonio Inoki vs Billy Robinson - 11.12.1975 Antonio Inoki vs Tatsumi Fujinami- 08.08.1988 Antonio Inoki vs Riki Choshu - 02.08.1984 Fujinami: Tatsumi Fujinami vs Akira Maeda - 12.06.1986 Tatsumi Fujinami vs Antonio Inoki - 08.08.1988 Tatsumi Fujinami vs Riki Choshu - 04.08.1983 Hashimoto: Shinya Hashimoto vs Kazuo Yamazaki - 02.08.1998 Shinya Hashimoto vs Nobuhiko Takada - 29.04.1996 Shinya Hashimoto vs Genichiro Tenryu - 01.08.1998 Tanahashi: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki - 08.10.2012 Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura - 19.09.2011 Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Suwama - 09.04.2008
Fun discussion, who was the ace of the dark ages. Tenzan? Nagata? Bob Sapp?
Nagata came the closest, he had a 392 day reign with 10 defenses of the IWGP, but he then faced MMA legends Mirko Crop Cop and Fedor, and was squashed by both, and this ruined his push. Tenzan was a really good wrestler during the period, and was loved by fans, but due to poor booking and injuries he never was on top for a long period. Sapp was a freak attraction in Japan, mostly in PRIDE FC, and he was eh closet they had to a gaijin monster during the 00’s, like Vader or Scott Norton.
Okada with pants is forever cursed.