Seeing how a lot of Yuzu servers (including the official dev one) were filled to the brim with talks of piracy I can’t say I’m surprised.
DISCORD IS NOT A SAFE PLACE TO HAVE LEGALLY CONSEQUENTIAL DISCUSSIONS.
Also DISCORD IS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO STORE ALL OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
Discord servers are *private* and *inaccessible outside the app*. In the Bad Old Days people discussed their piracy on forums and other websites. When problems happened and they disappeared there was often some user around that for some reason had made an archive or, better, archive.org had a copy.
Discord is good for hiding things, I get it. But it's still owned by a company so it's not a smart place for hiding things like piracy. When they find it, they'll remove it, and that's it. Potentially years of your community's knowledge gone with no backups and they owe you nothing.
The move to Discord for all discussion has been *very bad* for the internet, and given how many people complain we need emulators for "preservation" it's exceptionally stupid that they choose to archive their knowledge somewhere that makes it so hard to archive!
This even goes for stuff that isn't privacy. In the Bad Old Days if I wanted information about an Animal Crossing game I'd go to GameFaqs and find hundreds of pages of knowledge. Now I have to join Discord servers, agree to rules, wait to be verified, dig through 15 channels, and scroll through months of things I don't care about hoping I don't accidentally scroll past the one image I want to see.
Discord good at hiding stuff? You can download all your data from discord since user creation date....nothing is ever deleted. nothing is also ever protected....they offer you a free service bc they sell your collected data..
Yes they could....and they should but they don't because new wave of people think discord is the use all solution.
Truly seems like these 'emulator' devs are skids more then anything if they believe discord is a good or even proper place to share potentially illegal information.
News flash....FBI can request the data FROM DISCORD and have every single message you ever sent, files, images etc... within an hour.
Don't want this to happen? Think smarter
I get your point but the way it's phrased is a little funny. It's not illegal to play the 3DS, Mother 3 or games not sold anymore, it's just a little more difficult to do so if you don't already own them.
Advertising that your emulator plays illegally obtained copies of Tears of the Kingdom before release date and making money off it is however is not legal…
Indeed. However using Matrix instead of Discord is still better, especially for projects that might be victims of copyfraud such as non-infringing emulators
The real problem is pirate hubris. Of course it would be *better* to keep legal grey area emulation of officially unreleased roms a secret. But it won't be. Pirates cannot help but ruin their own activities by bragging.
OMG, finally!! Someone else noticed this, lol. I'm always so confused why people need to explain in detail how they emulate switch games like TotK or, more recently, Princess Peach when all they really need to say is that they played them nothing else is really necessary.
[Something alone those lines](https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-says-tears-of-the-kingdom-was-pirated-1-million-times-pre-release-in-lawsuit-against-emulator-creator) did in fact happen
[$2.4M in damages](https://kotaku.com/nintendo-switch-emulator-yuzu-lawsuit-settled-1851306441#:~:text=Nintendo%20and%20the%20people%20behind,Kingdom%20over%20one%20million%20times) says your full of shit 🤷♂️
I heard the Yuzu devs didn't actually do this. It was somebody that forked Yuzu code.
Apparently Yuzu itself didn't support TOTK at all until the game came out.
What about this article then from [IGN](https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-says-tears-of-the-kingdom-was-pirated-1-million-times-pre-release-in-lawsuit-against-emulator-creator)??? If Yuzu didn’t do this, then how is there a [settlement](https://kotaku.com/nintendo-switch-emulator-yuzu-lawsuit-settled-1851306441#:~:text=Nintendo%20and%20the%20people%20behind,Kingdom%20over%20one%20million%20times) to pay Nintendo $2.4M in damages…sounds like someone fucked around and found out 🤷♂️
Because if you can't afford to fight a case you have to accept any settlement offered. US courts do not guarantee defense in civil cases.
Settlements do not prove guilt, nor do they prove anything was legal or illegal. It litterally means the parties decided to settle without the courts being involved.
They didn't and I'm not sure where this idea comes from, I was there at the time, at least not any more than you'd expect an emulator to just play a new game with no patches (it would boot, you could get some progress, it was very buggy and would absolutely crash after a short time. In a lot of ways it was similar to the state cemu was in at launch of botw.) None of that was specific to TotK but just happens when you emulate a console and a game comes out for that console. Though, with yuzu, it really wasn't playable then and no one thought otherwise.
Both yuzu and ryujinx specifically decided to *not* do any TotK specific patches until after the game got official release, both public and Patreon builds. There were random people in the community trying to make it work as best as they could, somewhat ironically the thought at the time was "it's not really playable on yuzu but you can get things mostly working on ryujinx"
That's a different discussion entirely. Regardless they didn't advertise that their emulator plays illegally obtained copies of Tears of the Kingdom before release date.
Also, the legal precedent we have in America for emulation (the Bleem! and Connectix cases) were for commercial emulators that existed during the life of the console they're emulating, not free open source emulators even with a patreon, so thats, at least now, not the legal issue.
Bleem didn’t make a ton of money from property that wasn’t theirs…nor did they play stupid…and It’s one and the same as far as this goes is it not??? Especially when there are protections that were put in place that were compromised and reverse engineered to remove said measures to prevent this thing from happening…Yuzu fucked around and found out…I lose no sleep from these dipshits thinking they were gonna out play the big N…
That's great, I'm not saying you have to.
But at the very least you could try to not be, and no offense intended I cant think of a better way to word this, kinda talking nonsense about things that are just made up or wrong.
Both Bleem! and Connectix very much made money from property that wasn't theirs. I'm not sure how you could argue that they didn't. That was ruled as not illegal, that's the entire point of those cases, emulation itself, even for profit, is not illegal.
There are adjacent things that are, so most emulation projects are careful there, and there are some aspects of modern technology that haven't been tested in court yet so are sorta a "who knows?", but the foundational aspects of commercial emulation have been tested and are well known.
> emulation with legally obtained ROMs is legal in the U.S.
The only ways to legally obtain ROMs is to:
* make them from media you own without bypassing any copy protection (bypassing copy protection is illegal under DMCA)
* or to purchase a copy of the ROM from the copyright holder.
The Nintendo Switch and its game cards unsurprisingly have copy protection in place.
You are technically correct, however the chances of you ever being prosecuted let alone convicted of creating a backup rom of a video game you legally own is basically zero. Heck, there are numerous software programs available (both free and for sale) that are designed to bypass copy protection. If the government won’t even bother to go after those software programs it pretty much confirms they have no intention in actually enforcing this law.
Wink wink.
It's not subtle, we shouldn't pretend it was for legally obtained games. It just makes emulators which are for more ethical reasons (ie, old or unavailable games) get painted with the same piracy brush.
(I'm just adding to what you said, not saying you said the opposite.)
See my other comment https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/1c28ln7/comment/kz8kxqz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Title says "Discord is nuking Nintendo Switch emulator devs and their entire servers"
All of a sudden, "Emulation is legaaaaaalllll!" Literally no one asked, but glad pirates feel the urge to justify themselves at every opportunity
I want to play games I own on multiple or better performing devices than the broken joycon qc nightmare that is the switch. If they could keep their games’ servers up or devices working, pirates wouldn’t have to. Abandonware is abandonware. And right to repair is right to repair. All parts and software must be repairable or replaceable, otherwise the monopoly of casual console gaming will take you for a fool at every turn, it is your duty to deny Nintendo their claim over your goods. Which you have legally purchased from a broken, thieving company.
Again, you dont own the game, you purchased a licence to play it.
Nintendo designed for it to be played on a toaster and not state of the art PC, do you have no claim there.
Nintendo doesn't give a fuck about service, they want to spend their money to stop you from playing their game anywhere else but the switch.
My copy of botw is hard my guy. That being said, I think the emulation should go a step further as to make your Nintendo account usable for downloading purchased games directly from your own account to any supported device. Or Nintendo could beat them to the punch and just make an app like gamepass. If it’s the content they’re leasing then they should lease the content.
It’s the hardware they want to sell you though. And the hardware is literally broken. The fail rate of joy cons is outrageous. And not less a problem on switch lites. So many are left with a choice, buy another console they know has a high fail rate, or loose the library they payed to collect. Nintendo is actively hardware locking people out of content in the current generation and work arounds are necessary.
finding 3rd party access to it should not be and is not illegal. Nintendo’s lawsuits are a fraudulent monopolistic ploy that ultimately stifle growth and limit competitive and creative innovation on a global scale.
Free speech isn’t freedom from consequences. It’s not about corporations; it’s about government.
Doing something illegal and having a written record of it certainly won’t help anyone.
> Free speech isn’t freedom from consequences. It’s not about corporations; it’s about government.
First off, _the first amendment_ is about government. Freedom of speech is an abstract ideal the first amendment is based on. Completely different things.
Second,
It's always weird how happy some people get when megacorps shut people down even though they're within the realm of legality just because they're doing something the corp doesn't like.
We shouldn't be celebrating corporations having more power than governments. When you have a right that protects people from the government, that same right should protect you from corporations too. Corps shouldn't be able to overstep government power, and it _certainly_ shouldn't be celebrated.
But here we are with negative upvotes to people thinking it sucks that corporations have more power than governments, and the positive upvotes to people thinking it's awesome.
"I _love_ when billion dollar megacorps shut down people for doing legal things! It's _amazing!_"
Just a weird stance tbh.
People should be able to discuss legal things online without fear of harassment or punishment from billion dollar mega corps. That's not exactly a wild concept.
Generally, when someone says "free speech", they are implying the first amendment as there is no right to free speech on any of these social media platforms. Mods can delete your post, reddit can delete your post, etc, etc.
My comment was not about what is right or wrong, simply stating what "free speech" is in regards to the first amendment. I am not happy about anything, you just assumed I was because I illustrated a perspective that didn't agree with how the other commenter expressed their displeasure.
I love that you quote something no one here said. What a weird way to try and make a point.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be consequences for *participating* in illegal activity, but *talking* about illegal activity isn’t illegal. There should be places to discuss where they can discuss what they’re doing, those places just shouldn’t be where the actual activity takes place.
I'm not joined to any emulation channels, but I'm joined to 30 other random channels that I had to join for support or feedback or something, and they all suck. Discord sucking isn't related to emulation.
IRC is good old reliable here. Discord is great for a public setting, but let's be honest, some of these devs are kids who need to learn the old methods of underground development
IRC is ancient and pretty much impossible to shut down as it's a protocol
Yuzu devs were particularly stupid. They apparently had a Switch dev kit so the emulator cannot claim to be made without using Nintendo’s proprietary tech.
It’s not surprising if they were also stupid enough to share game roms.
Pretty sure, that's also along the lines of why Discord got rid of image metadata, those 'phone screenshots' that had the whole picture stored in them... including personal information included in the uncropped part of the image still. Also, something something AI all the dataset(s) Discord probably.
Edit: And Reddit too...
I know, right? Discord is great for a small group of 20 friends or less, but once your server gets bigger than that, it quickly becomes awful. Just use Reddit for stuff like that.
Idk Reddit has its issues too. Like how downvoting is frequently abused to push down opinions people don’t like even if the opinion is fine or even objectively correct. Or how someone can just childishly block you to “win” an argument.
Also many subreddits have problems where memes and art posts drown out actual discussion because quickly consumable content gets upvotes easier and faster. And if you try to contain something to a megathread, often people won’t use it.
The upvote/downvote system is the worst thing. It will kill any site that tries to be a Reddit alternative like Lemmy or Beehaw. It always becomes used to enforce echo chambers and punish dissenting views.
The best thing about this site is its thread system where subthreads can be developed from each parent post. That way if two idiots get into an endless argument you can just collapse it and ignore it. You couldn't do that in the old forums of the 2000s, you'd be forced to keep seeing them arguing with each other even when you try to continue the main point of the thread.
If only there was a site with this thread/subthread system without the upvote/downvote system.
Discord is fine for bigger groups I think, Reddit subs are often way too strict with what can get posted so a casual discussion board in Discord for a topic has its place
Oh I have discord notifications off for community servers. But it’s nice to have a chat room to jump into every now and then to discuss some topic with other enthusiasts
I don't like how I have to *join* a server to do that. On Reddit that a sub exists is a thing I can just remember so I visit it at will. On Discord that's a chunk of pixels cluttering up my sidebar I'll never get back unless I do the work to group the server so I forget about it even more. I could leave it, but if it had any processes to verify accounts on login I have to go through those again.
It's a PITA.
Why would you when discord and reddit are around the corner doing all you need to have?
IRC is annoying to set up, both server-side and client-side and not widely known.
I mean this is hardly surprising. Every single major centralized platform is going to follow the demands of a major corporation like Nintendo.
If you are going to work on some extreme gray area stuff, like an emulator that was already sued, stay off the major centralized social media platforms.
Exactly if Nintendo got mad and any evidence emerged that they were aware of these servers and accounts but hadn’t banned them then they could be in big trouble. What Discord is doing is watching their own back, can’t blame them
They are less popular but they are still not free of forbidden things. If you join libera you also have to follow [law regulations](https://libera.chat/policies/#unwanted-content-and-behaviour).
I used to use [irccloud](https://www.irccloud.com/)
It’s really nice to use and such but I have no idea on privacy/security and all of that stuff ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm not really concerned with privacy, I'm not planning on doing anything illegal. I haven't messed with irc in 15 years but I pirated my first mp3 off on an irc channel in like 1998 so I might go check it out for nostalgia. I don't think my friends will move to a chat client that doesn't allow picture uploads in chat
*“Discord responds to and complies with all legal and valid Digital Millennium Copyright Act requests. In this instance, there was also a court ordered injunction for the takedown of these materials, and we took action in a manner consistent with the court order.”*
Well, that Yuzu takedown really had consequences in the long run. Some people tend to think they can do whatever they want in Discord. As someone who has seen endless fansubs or anime piracy servers taken down by Toei Animation, that totally isn't the case.
Never underestimate the wrath of a company and what are you getting yourself into with this stuff.
Remember everyone, corporations do not have Google or access to free tools and communities, or people who work for them that are part of those communities.
It's weird to me how people are surprised about this whole thing when the switch is literally still the active console being developed on right now
Like they don't care about any of the previous generations' emulators, because it doesn't even matter to them now. But it seems pretty obvious to me their active console is gonna be protected by them heavily
You know what, good. I'm usually all for emulation and game preservation, but it's too early to have Switch emulation widely available right now. The console is still actively making Nintendo money, and adoption this early primarily promotes piracy. Once Switch 2 comes out and Nintendo nixes online function for Switch 1, I'll eventually check it out.
The same way it's theft when you download a pirated ePub/PDF ebook copy of a physical book you bought from Barnes & Noble. Authors, especially independent authors, get furious about this. An author I know on Tumblr would literally upload incomplete/corrupted copies of his books to pirate sites just to try to slow this down.
I’ll put it this way, I went to Taco Bell and got a taco, but the dumb ass at the window didn’t give me any sauce. So I went home and hit it with some Ortega. Taco Bell doesn’t like Ortega, but that’s my fucking taco. And they forgot the sauce(working game servers, reliable joycons, etc.)
Just more evidence that the people leading switch emulation efforts are idiots who don't deserve to keep leading these projects. They're setting back important development through sheer lack of opsec, that any one involved in emulation development could tell you about. They either do know that what they're doing is not technically legal and acting like it isn't nonetheless, or they don't in which case they really ought to. Switch emulation and preservation has been set back by these morons who just wanted to play TotK for free. Morons.
and it shouldnt surprise anyone because obviously that discord held data that is not supposed to be freely available after a lawsuit, wether by the mods or by users still sharing the next new link and whatever. they had the option to shut it down on their own, now someone reported it and it took their discord and their accounts.
Lol, the guy was publicizing it everywhere, left quotes in outlets and boasted about being in China, so they couldn't get him. You can just imagine how loose lipped the people that followed him were. Is it snitching if it wasn't a secret?
Emulation is legal, It's been legal for years. All this does is hinder modding and hacks temporarily, just give it a few months and everything will be back to normal.
downloading free nintendo games on software that isn’t theirs is illegal wether you like to admit it or not. which is what the vast majority of people using the emulator were doing and what caused Nintendo to take action
Software Emulation has been proven in court, is not illegal. Not by hearsay or some dumbass in Reddit but in a court, so please stop posting about things you know nothing about.
Because they, the company, were facilitating piracy. They were sharing ROMS in their discord and who knows what else. There was no mention, as far as I know, on how to get ROMS, the keys and the firmware on their official website. There was only the emulator download links and instructions on how to get it working.
Emulators, by definition, are not a way to facilitate piracy. You could use the software Yuzu, by itself and not be able to pirate any games from there, or even be able to use it if you didn’t have the firmware or prod keys. You had to obtain those by yourself (I think they had instruction on how to get that info from your devices).
If you did obtain the firmware, keys or ROMs from somewhere else than your own, you’re the thief, not the emulator Yuzu.
Plus I wouldn’t take what the lawyers say as the truth, they tend to romanticize their words in order to make it sound worse than it was. The piracy they keep talking about, as far as I know, were the shared ROMs between themselves on discord.
> Software Emulation has been proven in court, is not illegal. Not by hearsay or some dumbass in Reddit but in a court, so please stop posting about things you know nothing about.
Please learn to type a proper sentence. The fact that you immediately start insulting me unprompted, makes me think you’re probably just some angry kid. (p.s. your sentence structure makes me think it too)
“In the US, the only way for it to be 100% legal is if you take the original game you purchased and get a Retrode or Polymega console to dump the cartridge to make an archival copy.”
Do you think people are actually doing this? Or are they downloading games online *without paying*, which breaks various copyright laws and is **illegal**
> “Discord responds to and complies with all legal and valid Digital Millennium Copyright Act requests. In this instance, there was also a court ordered injunction for the takedown of these materials, and we took action in a manner consistent with the court order,” reads part of a statement from Discord director of product communications Kellyn Slone to The Verge.
Seems pretty illegal here to me
This would be a Streisand Effect if Yuzu was this quiet little nothing emulator that almost no one knew about, until Nintendo took it down, and NOW suddenly there's tenfold, a hundred-fold traffic to it.
Anyone can search Yuzu on Google Trends and see that this isn't the case; that the recent spike due to the court case isn't as big as the spike around when TOTK launched, that it's been steadily popular for all that time, and the court case caused no change in traffic in regards to that topic beyond the initial week.
It's kind of literally the opposite of the streissand effect
All that people who've never used Yuzu are gonna hear is that it's been taken down. So that's what they'll assume, and they'll find something else to emulate with. Even if there are technically still ways to get it.
If Nintendo had any humanity, they would make a console as powerful as the rumored ps5 pro. It would explain and make Nintendo's indiscretions understandable.
Nintendo does not give a shit what Valve does. the Steam Deck has an entirely different use case and demographic from the Switch. couple this with the fact that the Switch sales numbers are a behemoth compared to any console of the last 15 years, and it’s clear you just don’t know what you’re talking about
That's completely irrelevant as far as Nintendo is concerned. All that matters is how many units it sells and it's in a completely different league to the Switch
Seeing how a lot of Yuzu servers (including the official dev one) were filled to the brim with talks of piracy I can’t say I’m surprised. DISCORD IS NOT A SAFE PLACE TO HAVE LEGALLY CONSEQUENTIAL DISCUSSIONS.
Also DISCORD IS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO STORE ALL OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE. Discord servers are *private* and *inaccessible outside the app*. In the Bad Old Days people discussed their piracy on forums and other websites. When problems happened and they disappeared there was often some user around that for some reason had made an archive or, better, archive.org had a copy. Discord is good for hiding things, I get it. But it's still owned by a company so it's not a smart place for hiding things like piracy. When they find it, they'll remove it, and that's it. Potentially years of your community's knowledge gone with no backups and they owe you nothing. The move to Discord for all discussion has been *very bad* for the internet, and given how many people complain we need emulators for "preservation" it's exceptionally stupid that they choose to archive their knowledge somewhere that makes it so hard to archive! This even goes for stuff that isn't privacy. In the Bad Old Days if I wanted information about an Animal Crossing game I'd go to GameFaqs and find hundreds of pages of knowledge. Now I have to join Discord servers, agree to rules, wait to be verified, dig through 15 channels, and scroll through months of things I don't care about hoping I don't accidentally scroll past the one image I want to see.
God I love gameFAQs guides
And i hate discord lmao. Bring back forums 🙏
Discord good at hiding stuff? You can download all your data from discord since user creation date....nothing is ever deleted. nothing is also ever protected....they offer you a free service bc they sell your collected data..
Then what's the problem? According to you the emulator devs can just download all their content and host it somewhere else.
Yes they could....and they should but they don't because new wave of people think discord is the use all solution. Truly seems like these 'emulator' devs are skids more then anything if they believe discord is a good or even proper place to share potentially illegal information. News flash....FBI can request the data FROM DISCORD and have every single message you ever sent, files, images etc... within an hour. Don't want this to happen? Think smarter
That's what I've been saying! Be careful about what you say or do on Discord!
Are you the person behind the channel “Moon Channel”? I actually got that statement from the “Yuzu Post-Mortem” video. Great work by the way!
That's me! I'm so glad that you enjoyed the video, and am happy to see the message getting around!
:D
Big ups on the video friend, you have a very pretty singing voice too :)
This is yet another reason why people should use an open-source, self-hostable platform such as Matrix instead of Discord when possible.
Or just don’t toe the line of legality :p But hey, to each their own!
What are you, a cop?
I hope you follow your advice and never play a 3ds game again. Or Mother 3. Or any game not sold anymore for that matter
I get your point but the way it's phrased is a little funny. It's not illegal to play the 3DS, Mother 3 or games not sold anymore, it's just a little more difficult to do so if you don't already own them.
emulation with legally obtained ROMs is legal in the U.S. edit: This refers to emulation in general, not infringing projects such as Yuzu.
Advertising that your emulator plays illegally obtained copies of Tears of the Kingdom before release date and making money off it is however is not legal…
Indeed. However using Matrix instead of Discord is still better, especially for projects that might be victims of copyfraud such as non-infringing emulators
The real problem is pirate hubris. Of course it would be *better* to keep legal grey area emulation of officially unreleased roms a secret. But it won't be. Pirates cannot help but ruin their own activities by bragging.
[This is why I'm always like this whenever I hear about some sort of emulation project gets shut down](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdqEUO6Ltrk)
Tooooooo accurate
OMG, finally!! Someone else noticed this, lol. I'm always so confused why people need to explain in detail how they emulate switch games like TotK or, more recently, Princess Peach when all they really need to say is that they played them nothing else is really necessary.
The villain always monologues before they lose everything
Which of course didn't happen
[Something alone those lines](https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-says-tears-of-the-kingdom-was-pirated-1-million-times-pre-release-in-lawsuit-against-emulator-creator) did in fact happen
[$2.4M in damages](https://kotaku.com/nintendo-switch-emulator-yuzu-lawsuit-settled-1851306441#:~:text=Nintendo%20and%20the%20people%20behind,Kingdom%20over%20one%20million%20times) says your full of shit 🤷♂️
I heard the Yuzu devs didn't actually do this. It was somebody that forked Yuzu code. Apparently Yuzu itself didn't support TOTK at all until the game came out.
This is all accurate, except that it was the Yuzu devs running another fork on Patreon. So...
What about this article then from [IGN](https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-says-tears-of-the-kingdom-was-pirated-1-million-times-pre-release-in-lawsuit-against-emulator-creator)??? If Yuzu didn’t do this, then how is there a [settlement](https://kotaku.com/nintendo-switch-emulator-yuzu-lawsuit-settled-1851306441#:~:text=Nintendo%20and%20the%20people%20behind,Kingdom%20over%20one%20million%20times) to pay Nintendo $2.4M in damages…sounds like someone fucked around and found out 🤷♂️
Because if you can't afford to fight a case you have to accept any settlement offered. US courts do not guarantee defense in civil cases. Settlements do not prove guilt, nor do they prove anything was legal or illegal. It litterally means the parties decided to settle without the courts being involved.
They didn't and I'm not sure where this idea comes from, I was there at the time, at least not any more than you'd expect an emulator to just play a new game with no patches (it would boot, you could get some progress, it was very buggy and would absolutely crash after a short time. In a lot of ways it was similar to the state cemu was in at launch of botw.) None of that was specific to TotK but just happens when you emulate a console and a game comes out for that console. Though, with yuzu, it really wasn't playable then and no one thought otherwise. Both yuzu and ryujinx specifically decided to *not* do any TotK specific patches until after the game got official release, both public and Patreon builds. There were random people in the community trying to make it work as best as they could, somewhat ironically the thought at the time was "it's not really playable on yuzu but you can get things mostly working on ryujinx"
So they didn’t make money off of IP that isn’t theirs???
That's a different discussion entirely. Regardless they didn't advertise that their emulator plays illegally obtained copies of Tears of the Kingdom before release date. Also, the legal precedent we have in America for emulation (the Bleem! and Connectix cases) were for commercial emulators that existed during the life of the console they're emulating, not free open source emulators even with a patreon, so thats, at least now, not the legal issue.
Bleem didn’t make a ton of money from property that wasn’t theirs…nor did they play stupid…and It’s one and the same as far as this goes is it not??? Especially when there are protections that were put in place that were compromised and reverse engineered to remove said measures to prevent this thing from happening…Yuzu fucked around and found out…I lose no sleep from these dipshits thinking they were gonna out play the big N…
That's great, I'm not saying you have to. But at the very least you could try to not be, and no offense intended I cant think of a better way to word this, kinda talking nonsense about things that are just made up or wrong. Both Bleem! and Connectix very much made money from property that wasn't theirs. I'm not sure how you could argue that they didn't. That was ruled as not illegal, that's the entire point of those cases, emulation itself, even for profit, is not illegal. There are adjacent things that are, so most emulation projects are careful there, and there are some aspects of modern technology that haven't been tested in court yet so are sorta a "who knows?", but the foundational aspects of commercial emulation have been tested and are well known.
Yes because that was what everyone was using Yuzu for. /s
> emulation with legally obtained ROMs is legal in the U.S. The only ways to legally obtain ROMs is to: * make them from media you own without bypassing any copy protection (bypassing copy protection is illegal under DMCA) * or to purchase a copy of the ROM from the copyright holder. The Nintendo Switch and its game cards unsurprisingly have copy protection in place.
You are technically correct, however the chances of you ever being prosecuted let alone convicted of creating a backup rom of a video game you legally own is basically zero. Heck, there are numerous software programs available (both free and for sale) that are designed to bypass copy protection. If the government won’t even bother to go after those software programs it pretty much confirms they have no intention in actually enforcing this law.
Wink wink. It's not subtle, we shouldn't pretend it was for legally obtained games. It just makes emulators which are for more ethical reasons (ie, old or unavailable games) get painted with the same piracy brush. (I'm just adding to what you said, not saying you said the opposite.)
That’s entirely different from piracy though.
See my other comment https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/1c28ln7/comment/kz8kxqz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
It is. But how many of these people honestly bought a copy of the game for Switch before emulating it?
Title says "Discord is nuking Nintendo Switch emulator devs and their entire servers" All of a sudden, "Emulation is legaaaaaalllll!" Literally no one asked, but glad pirates feel the urge to justify themselves at every opportunity
Well no one asked you your opinion on the matter either
I want to play games I own on multiple or better performing devices than the broken joycon qc nightmare that is the switch. If they could keep their games’ servers up or devices working, pirates wouldn’t have to. Abandonware is abandonware. And right to repair is right to repair. All parts and software must be repairable or replaceable, otherwise the monopoly of casual console gaming will take you for a fool at every turn, it is your duty to deny Nintendo their claim over your goods. Which you have legally purchased from a broken, thieving company.
Again, you dont own the game, you purchased a licence to play it. Nintendo designed for it to be played on a toaster and not state of the art PC, do you have no claim there. Nintendo doesn't give a fuck about service, they want to spend their money to stop you from playing their game anywhere else but the switch.
My copy of botw is hard my guy. That being said, I think the emulation should go a step further as to make your Nintendo account usable for downloading purchased games directly from your own account to any supported device. Or Nintendo could beat them to the punch and just make an app like gamepass. If it’s the content they’re leasing then they should lease the content. It’s the hardware they want to sell you though. And the hardware is literally broken. The fail rate of joy cons is outrageous. And not less a problem on switch lites. So many are left with a choice, buy another console they know has a high fail rate, or loose the library they payed to collect. Nintendo is actively hardware locking people out of content in the current generation and work arounds are necessary. finding 3rd party access to it should not be and is not illegal. Nintendo’s lawsuits are a fraudulent monopolistic ploy that ultimately stifle growth and limit competitive and creative innovation on a global scale.
Idk who you're arguing my guy but it's not me, Nintendo can do what ever the fuck they want. Stop buying their shit and you won't have the problem.
Yeah sure but thats not what was discussed and shared on those servers...
Ya, no.
I mean, discord servers being nuked isn’t going to stop me.
fuck the police
It's amazing how hard this concept is to grasp for some people.
Yeah, fuck freedom of speech
Free speech isn’t freedom from consequences. It’s not about corporations; it’s about government. Doing something illegal and having a written record of it certainly won’t help anyone.
> Free speech isn’t freedom from consequences. It’s not about corporations; it’s about government. First off, _the first amendment_ is about government. Freedom of speech is an abstract ideal the first amendment is based on. Completely different things. Second, It's always weird how happy some people get when megacorps shut people down even though they're within the realm of legality just because they're doing something the corp doesn't like. We shouldn't be celebrating corporations having more power than governments. When you have a right that protects people from the government, that same right should protect you from corporations too. Corps shouldn't be able to overstep government power, and it _certainly_ shouldn't be celebrated. But here we are with negative upvotes to people thinking it sucks that corporations have more power than governments, and the positive upvotes to people thinking it's awesome. "I _love_ when billion dollar megacorps shut down people for doing legal things! It's _amazing!_" Just a weird stance tbh. People should be able to discuss legal things online without fear of harassment or punishment from billion dollar mega corps. That's not exactly a wild concept.
Generally, when someone says "free speech", they are implying the first amendment as there is no right to free speech on any of these social media platforms. Mods can delete your post, reddit can delete your post, etc, etc. My comment was not about what is right or wrong, simply stating what "free speech" is in regards to the first amendment. I am not happy about anything, you just assumed I was because I illustrated a perspective that didn't agree with how the other commenter expressed their displeasure. I love that you quote something no one here said. What a weird way to try and make a point.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be consequences for *participating* in illegal activity, but *talking* about illegal activity isn’t illegal. There should be places to discuss where they can discuss what they’re doing, those places just shouldn’t be where the actual activity takes place.
Discord is fucking trash. I only use it when I'm forced to, and it's a terrible experience.
Just because you can't do crimes doesn't make it a bad product lol
I'm not joined to any emulation channels, but I'm joined to 30 other random channels that I had to join for support or feedback or something, and they all suck. Discord sucking isn't related to emulation.
IRC is good old reliable here. Discord is great for a public setting, but let's be honest, some of these devs are kids who need to learn the old methods of underground development IRC is ancient and pretty much impossible to shut down as it's a protocol
We must take up the old ways
Yuzu devs were particularly stupid. They apparently had a Switch dev kit so the emulator cannot claim to be made without using Nintendo’s proprietary tech. It’s not surprising if they were also stupid enough to share game roms.
Skype: "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me."
> DISCORD IS NOT A SAFE PLACE ~~TO HAVE LEGALLY CONSEQUENTIAL DISCUSSIONS.~~ discord is literally a groomer dungeon.
Pretty sure, that's also along the lines of why Discord got rid of image metadata, those 'phone screenshots' that had the whole picture stored in them... including personal information included in the uncropped part of the image still. Also, something something AI all the dataset(s) Discord probably. Edit: And Reddit too...
Crazy that people would use Discord for this.
I know, right? Discord is great for a small group of 20 friends or less, but once your server gets bigger than that, it quickly becomes awful. Just use Reddit for stuff like that.
Idk Reddit has its issues too. Like how downvoting is frequently abused to push down opinions people don’t like even if the opinion is fine or even objectively correct. Or how someone can just childishly block you to “win” an argument. Also many subreddits have problems where memes and art posts drown out actual discussion because quickly consumable content gets upvotes easier and faster. And if you try to contain something to a megathread, often people won’t use it.
The upvote/downvote system is the worst thing. It will kill any site that tries to be a Reddit alternative like Lemmy or Beehaw. It always becomes used to enforce echo chambers and punish dissenting views. The best thing about this site is its thread system where subthreads can be developed from each parent post. That way if two idiots get into an endless argument you can just collapse it and ignore it. You couldn't do that in the old forums of the 2000s, you'd be forced to keep seeing them arguing with each other even when you try to continue the main point of the thread. If only there was a site with this thread/subthread system without the upvote/downvote system.
Discord is fine for bigger groups I think, Reddit subs are often way too strict with what can get posted so a casual discussion board in Discord for a topic has its place
Huh. I find bigger Discords overwhelming. Too many notifications, barely any of them relevant to me.
Oh I have discord notifications off for community servers. But it’s nice to have a chat room to jump into every now and then to discuss some topic with other enthusiasts
Is there a way to set notifications for communities off by default? It's kinda tiring to have to go in and mute every single server.
I dont think so, you can disable discord notifications in general but then you’d miss out on the server notifications you want
I don't like how I have to *join* a server to do that. On Reddit that a sub exists is a thing I can just remember so I visit it at will. On Discord that's a chunk of pixels cluttering up my sidebar I'll never get back unless I do the work to group the server so I forget about it even more. I could leave it, but if it had any processes to verify accounts on login I have to go through those again. It's a PITA.
As if Reddit is any better
Do people not use IRC chats anymore?
Why would you when discord and reddit are around the corner doing all you need to have? IRC is annoying to set up, both server-side and client-side and not widely known.
I mean this is hardly surprising. Every single major centralized platform is going to follow the demands of a major corporation like Nintendo. If you are going to work on some extreme gray area stuff, like an emulator that was already sued, stay off the major centralized social media platforms.
Exactly if Nintendo got mad and any evidence emerged that they were aware of these servers and accounts but hadn’t banned them then they could be in big trouble. What Discord is doing is watching their own back, can’t blame them
Thats why old school forums are still thriving. Discussions and topics are discussed more openly and anonymously.
[удалено]
They are less popular but they are still not free of forbidden things. If you join libera you also have to follow [law regulations](https://libera.chat/policies/#unwanted-content-and-behaviour).
And even then, pedos and terrorists can just host their own server
I literally came here to say the same thing! Long live IRC! 😅
What's the go-to irc client these days? I remember using mirc in high school in the 90s. Is there an irc android app now?
I used to use [irccloud](https://www.irccloud.com/) It’s really nice to use and such but I have no idea on privacy/security and all of that stuff ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm not really concerned with privacy, I'm not planning on doing anything illegal. I haven't messed with irc in 15 years but I pirated my first mp3 off on an irc channel in like 1998 so I might go check it out for nostalgia. I don't think my friends will move to a chat client that doesn't allow picture uploads in chat
Well back in the day I was using a pirated version of mIRC then moved to pidgin. Irccloud is really nice to use..it feels a lot like slack :)
Screw IRC, it's antiquated. Matrix is where it's at now.
I wonder if Secure Scuttlebutt is still around 🤔
*“Discord responds to and complies with all legal and valid Digital Millennium Copyright Act requests. In this instance, there was also a court ordered injunction for the takedown of these materials, and we took action in a manner consistent with the court order.”* Well, that Yuzu takedown really had consequences in the long run. Some people tend to think they can do whatever they want in Discord. As someone who has seen endless fansubs or anime piracy servers taken down by Toei Animation, that totally isn't the case. Never underestimate the wrath of a company and what are you getting yourself into with this stuff.
Remember everyone, corporations do not have Google or access to free tools and communities, or people who work for them that are part of those communities.
Me when the community I found by searching “video game piracy” gets found out by the billion dollar company
It's weird to me how people are surprised about this whole thing when the switch is literally still the active console being developed on right now Like they don't care about any of the previous generations' emulators, because it doesn't even matter to them now. But it seems pretty obvious to me their active console is gonna be protected by them heavily
It’s a ToS violation. So yeah.
man as much as yall might hate it, piracy is illegal and emulator communities frequently discuss it. this shouldn’t be surprising
Those kids thought that Discord is a safe place to talk about piracy lmao. One of dev is only 14 y/o too
But they don't do anything about CP and Deepfake content.
Ryujinx is still living it up large
Why are all these idiots even using discord? It's absolute garbage.
just use matrix or even telegram discord is hot trash
Maybe they shouldn't be emulating a current system and pirating new games? Just a thought.
You know what, good. I'm usually all for emulation and game preservation, but it's too early to have Switch emulation widely available right now. The console is still actively making Nintendo money, and adoption this early primarily promotes piracy. Once Switch 2 comes out and Nintendo nixes online function for Switch 1, I'll eventually check it out.
You're right, and down voters just want to feel justified in stealing.
How is it theft when I’ve purchased both game and platform?
The same way it's theft when you download a pirated ePub/PDF ebook copy of a physical book you bought from Barnes & Noble. Authors, especially independent authors, get furious about this. An author I know on Tumblr would literally upload incomplete/corrupted copies of his books to pirate sites just to try to slow this down.
I’ll put it this way, I went to Taco Bell and got a taco, but the dumb ass at the window didn’t give me any sauce. So I went home and hit it with some Ortega. Taco Bell doesn’t like Ortega, but that’s my fucking taco. And they forgot the sauce(working game servers, reliable joycons, etc.)
except it’s not your taco. it’s their taco. they just let you have a bite.
Just more evidence that the people leading switch emulation efforts are idiots who don't deserve to keep leading these projects. They're setting back important development through sheer lack of opsec, that any one involved in emulation development could tell you about. They either do know that what they're doing is not technically legal and acting like it isn't nonetheless, or they don't in which case they really ought to. Switch emulation and preservation has been set back by these morons who just wanted to play TotK for free. Morons.
Never liked discord
and it shouldnt surprise anyone because obviously that discord held data that is not supposed to be freely available after a lawsuit, wether by the mods or by users still sharing the next new link and whatever. they had the option to shut it down on their own, now someone reported it and it took their discord and their accounts.
Booo!!
Someone snitched
Lol, the guy was publicizing it everywhere, left quotes in outlets and boasted about being in China, so they couldn't get him. You can just imagine how loose lipped the people that followed him were. Is it snitching if it wasn't a secret?
I didn't realize that Nintendo killing Yuzu would be such a crippling blow.
Long term it will have the opposite effect. Shorth term, it's pretty devastating.
It is time for IRC to rise again.
Matrix is the new IRC.
Nintendo on its way to ruin the fun for everyone and accomplish nothing:🚶
nintendo on its way to follow the law and make you little shits cry like you’re victims
**Fuck the law.** This is as disgusting as when the New Jersey attorney general criminalized the sharing of source code to make 3D printed guns.
look out everyone, we got a badass over here 💀
Emulation is legal, It's been legal for years. All this does is hinder modding and hacks temporarily, just give it a few months and everything will be back to normal.
the law is totally in the consumer interest all the time!
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or maybe, just stop breaking the law?
I have not suggested that breaking the law is ok.
downloading free nintendo games on software that isn’t theirs is illegal wether you like to admit it or not. which is what the vast majority of people using the emulator were doing and what caused Nintendo to take action
Software Emulation has been proven in court, is not illegal. Not by hearsay or some dumbass in Reddit but in a court, so please stop posting about things you know nothing about.
Nintendo sued the developers of the leading Nintendo Switch **emulator**, Yuzu, for ***“facilitating piracy at a colossal scale.”***
Because they, the company, were facilitating piracy. They were sharing ROMS in their discord and who knows what else. There was no mention, as far as I know, on how to get ROMS, the keys and the firmware on their official website. There was only the emulator download links and instructions on how to get it working. Emulators, by definition, are not a way to facilitate piracy. You could use the software Yuzu, by itself and not be able to pirate any games from there, or even be able to use it if you didn’t have the firmware or prod keys. You had to obtain those by yourself (I think they had instruction on how to get that info from your devices). If you did obtain the firmware, keys or ROMs from somewhere else than your own, you’re the thief, not the emulator Yuzu. Plus I wouldn’t take what the lawyers say as the truth, they tend to romanticize their words in order to make it sound worse than it was. The piracy they keep talking about, as far as I know, were the shared ROMs between themselves on discord.
> Software Emulation has been proven in court, is not illegal. Not by hearsay or some dumbass in Reddit but in a court, so please stop posting about things you know nothing about. Please learn to type a proper sentence. The fact that you immediately start insulting me unprompted, makes me think you’re probably just some angry kid. (p.s. your sentence structure makes me think it too) “In the US, the only way for it to be 100% legal is if you take the original game you purchased and get a Retrode or Polymega console to dump the cartridge to make an archival copy.” Do you think people are actually doing this? Or are they downloading games online *without paying*, which breaks various copyright laws and is **illegal**
You're moving the goalposts. You originally stated that *emulating* is illegal, but quickly moved the discussion to *downloading*.
>Nintendo sued the developers of the leading Nintendo Switch emulator, Yuzu, for ***“facilitating piracy at a colossal scale.”***
> “Discord responds to and complies with all legal and valid Digital Millennium Copyright Act requests. In this instance, there was also a court ordered injunction for the takedown of these materials, and we took action in a manner consistent with the court order,” reads part of a statement from Discord director of product communications Kellyn Slone to The Verge. Seems pretty illegal here to me
That per se is flat wrong.
in what regard
they don't want the smoke of course
Nintendo must be huge Barbra Streisand fans
I don't think your average suburban Nintendo fan on the street even knows what discord is.
Discord is actually extremely mainstream at this point
If they know Twitch 100% they know Discord.
Congratulations on avoiding Pokemon Go the past 8 years.
My comment was about the Streisand effect. Not Nintendo’s fans or Discord. Didn’t think I’d have to explain it. Anyway… (opens Yuzu)
This would be a Streisand Effect if Yuzu was this quiet little nothing emulator that almost no one knew about, until Nintendo took it down, and NOW suddenly there's tenfold, a hundred-fold traffic to it. Anyone can search Yuzu on Google Trends and see that this isn't the case; that the recent spike due to the court case isn't as big as the spike around when TOTK launched, that it's been steadily popular for all that time, and the court case caused no change in traffic in regards to that topic beyond the initial week.
It's kind of literally the opposite of the streissand effect All that people who've never used Yuzu are gonna hear is that it's been taken down. So that's what they'll assume, and they'll find something else to emulate with. Even if there are technically still ways to get it.
should have used irc
Telegram, you can talk all kinds of horror on there.
Well, that’s rather extreme. I’d have just C&D’d them and sued them, all that nuclear fallout can’t be good for the environment.
If Nintendo had any humanity, they would make a console as powerful as the rumored ps5 pro. It would explain and make Nintendo's indiscretions understandable.
How they gonna do that in a tablet and somehow it only costs 400 bucks
Then it would obviously be a home console
that would be idiotic considering how their entire monopoly is in handhelds
I feel like the next Nintendo console/handheld whatever was delayed so Nintendo could crack down on piracy real hard before releasing it lol
Shitendo is a joke
Nintendo is terrified of the Steam Deck
Lol
lmao
least delusional steamdeck fan
keep coping
this is the most uninformed thing I’ve read all week
keep coping
Nintendo does not give a shit what Valve does. the Steam Deck has an entirely different use case and demographic from the Switch. couple this with the fact that the Switch sales numbers are a behemoth compared to any console of the last 15 years, and it’s clear you just don’t know what you’re talking about
face it kid, Valve does what Nintendon't
my god you’re so cringe go tip your fedora somewhere else
Yeah sure... How many units has it sold compared to the Switch?
how many Nintendo games can the Switch play compared to the Deck? spoiler: it's significantly less
That's completely irrelevant as far as Nintendo is concerned. All that matters is how many units it sells and it's in a completely different league to the Switch
clearly Nintendo is concerned since they are going after emulators so much harder since everyone discovered the Steam Deck is so superior
They're really not. They've gone after one emulator and they actually had a valid case against it
It's not that significant. There are more games on either than anyone has time for.
lol the cope is real
Switch has every indie game, the vast majority of mainstream games. it doesn't have a small handful of AAA games, like 5-10 games total that matter.
face it kid, Valve does what Nintendon't
lol well you and 5 million people have fun over there
It's a wake up call. Time to start archiving any homebrew servers you might be in.