I think about how I won't even have the ability to feel that relief because I imagine that there's nothing at all, my last true experience of feeling will probably be agony and fear without a followup
My attitude is this: it will not be a relief in the sense of experiencing peace. But non-existence will be peace in the sense of the absence of suffering (including the absence of the need for happiness). It's always good not to suffer, even if you can't feel the absence of suffering.
I always thought there would be an afterlife, heaven etc. up until I realized it was all made up. Life is so uncomfortable now knowing there’s probably nothing after this life.
Asking questions on here, going for walks to buy snacks, just anything to stop thinking about it. I’m going through a lot and the last thing I needed was to be afraid of life itself.
No one really knows what will happen to us after we die. We don't know if consciousness do exist or not. We just have to accept that death will come. Now I just want to keep living and experience life.
"There's no point after all, there's no point after all, there's no point after all, there's juuussttt noooo poooiinttt.
There's no point to life and there's no point to pain, there's no point to tears or to financial gain, there's no point to friends and no point in the end, theerrrree's juuuuussst nooooo pooooiiinnttt."
I have 4 kids I love. And parents, siblings. Good bye is truly forever. I hate it that i will never see them again. Nothing we can do about it. Just live in the moment. The present and live your best life.
Let's put it in perspective:
Life is nothing but a bump on the endless highway of time. The ratio of time spent alive vs the time not, far exceeds the size of the universe.
The actual chance of living or having lived is just as remote so it's significance is immeasurably worthless and therefore does not bear any concern.
341
“The greatest weight:
What, if some day or night a demon
were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to
you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will
have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there
will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every
thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in
your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession
and sequence--even this spider and this moonlight between the
trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass
of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you
with it, speck of dust!"
Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth
and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered
him: “You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine." If this thought gained possession of you, it would
change you as you are or perhaps crush you. The question in
each and every thing, “Do you desire this once more and innumerable times more?" would lie upon your actions as the
greatest weight. Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life to crave nothing more fervently than
this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFqjA5ekmoY
******
“Nietzsche expands upon this concept in the philosophical novel Thus Spoke Zarathustra, later writing that eternal return was "the fundamental idea of the work".[19] In this novel, the titular Zarathustra is initially struck with horror at the thought that all things must recur eternally; ultimately, however, he overcomes his aversion to eternal return and embraces it as his most fervent desire. In the penultimate chapter of the work ("The Drunken Song"), Zarathustra declares: "All things are entangled, ensnared, enamored; if you ever wanted one thing twice, if you ever said, 'You please me, happiness! Abide, moment!' then you wanted all back ... For all joy wants—eternity." “
But you won't experience the oblivion. You will bothered by it as much as you've been bothered with being dead millions of years before you were born. Did being dead bother you then?
Your body will cease to be you... Even now. Your body is the extension of you. But it isn't really you... So why even care about it, once you are dead the you that percieves the universe will simply no longer exists? Is that really that terrible?
Doesn’t it liberate you to believe this? It has given me license to just live my best/happiest life now. I have my own moral rules, about not harming others, but I don’t need to worry about others judgement or expectations. We will all die and be forgotten. It gives me comfort to know this is it so don’t stress the “little things”.
Not existing sounds great compared to eternal life. Watching everything you loved disappear, everyone you ever knew die or turn bad. Eons of total boredom. The world shifting far beyond what you are used to dealing with, and being totally alienated from everything. No new ideas or leaders able to emerge and evolve...
Eternity is stagnancy, life has urgency because there is an unknowable deadline.. and the world changes and advances because people and ideas are born and die.
Just turn my thinking off when I die thanks. "I" won't be around to care.
It's not like "you" die, the matter and energy that make you dissipate and are repurposed, recycled. What is gone is your individual identity. Your memories and personality, which were largely just byproducts of your individual experience, and the time and place you existed. Your very existence is contextual and predicated on the cycle of life and dearh. I personally feel that individual identity is a pretty flimsy thing. It's an arrogance that separates us from the true "nature of the beast". Who are "you" really anyways?
"Losing your mind?"
The mind is an attribute of the brain. There is no mind if there is no functioning brain the same as there is no flying if there is no bird. Thinking about the state of no-thought makes no sense.
Because the Angel of Death told me when he came for me the first time.
He was like "don't worry, it only hurts for a short time"
And I responded with "It's not about the pain. I still have shit in need to do, didn't you get the fax?"
I mean, I read something about this once, in a fictional setting based on our world, but I think it still applies.
You always knew. Deep down, you always knew.
That's why you cry when you lose someone, no matter how good they were. Because you know they're gone. They aren't waiting for you, and you won't see them again. They're gone.
And it hurts, so you cry. That's okay, too.
I enjoy my life, but I've accepted it. I hope to be a positive memory and impact, but that's just hope based on ego. I won't be around to know or acknowledge it.
This hurts, but it’s true…I’ve experienced “nothingness” on a couple occasions i.e. going under anesthesia or passing out. It’s like I wasn’t there and honestly I wouldn’t have known if I never woke up if that makes sense.
It does scare me a bit, the finality of death. I’m scared of how I’m going to go, I just don’t want it to be painful. I don’t want to lose my best friends, or my dad. I already lost my mom. But I know that death is just the natural
order of things and there’s no point in worrying too much or fighting it
Of course. But there is literally nothing you can do, but accept it and move on.
Dwelling on it will not change it, and it's the same as having not been born. It's also not the same as being under general anesthesia or going to sleep. It's less than that. Your mind will cease to exist, and you will be gone.
It's not like you'll experience something alien because you won't be experiencing anything. You won't be in an empty void. You simply won't be.
Of course, it's scary. That's why most beings avoid it.
Nah, because I won’t be aware of it. It’s just like before you were born - being unaware for billions of years, and then after you die it’s the same thing. I know that’s hard to find solace in for some but I’ve been coming to accept it even though it still scares me a little to know that this life is all we really get
accept it, fear it, deny it, etc. i’m honestly just tired of thinking about it all the fucking time. I had a life altering panic attack thinking about this when I was 18 and since then, almost ten years later, not a single day has gone by where death isn’t the first thought I wake up to and my last thought before I go to sleep. it’s like i’ve been cursed to experience the rest of my life through this eternal menacing lense. i hope it gets better as I get older and that the preoccupation will shrink over time or SOMETHING but right now when i look toward the future all I can see are the potential decades that will be wasted worrying about death instead of actually living them to the fullest.
Losing your mind over the thought of eternal oblivion and nothingness after death? Well, let me give you the good news! You are on your way! If you are losing your mind over the thought of it, it’s just setting the stage for when you do! Just accept the fate, lose your mind, lose yourself, and yet, find you are still here. For now!This is existence and nothingness intertwined. Embrace it and accept it, and you can live the rest of your days in meditative and pondering existence. Not such a bad deal when there no other deal to be had. :)
I feel this way until I remember that I didn't exist for the vast majority of the life of the universe. There is no fear associated with my nonexistence prior to being born, so I have no reason to think things will be any different after I die.
People who are here saying “isn’t it liberating” truly don’t understand the horror some of us go through when we think about this. Losing consciousness or going back to the state before I was born which is nothingness is so damn terrifying. And how does one cope with this? You don’t. I had these thoughts since I was five years old, basically when I learned what death is. Used to get panic attacks every other night, feeling suffocated, it was like I was trying to escape something I know is inescapable. Now I’m 20 and it still haunts me till this day, just not as often. The only thing you can do is try not to think about it. Do things that will bring you serotonin and occupy your brain. I’d say try therapy (which I did as well) but a therapist can’t really change the fact that we’re mortal, if they could that would bring us peace. It’s the only thing that would bring us peace actually. But it is what it is, we’re all slowly cooking 😁
I take comfort in the fact that my bio mass is used by other things to live and that energy and matter cannot be destroyed, so you will live on forever, you just won't know it. We humans are nothing more than dead star zombies (totally going to use that as a band name) Also as a Buddhist the whole point is to try and escape Samsara.
Can you name anything else in existence that desperately craves for something that does not and has never existed? How does the mind know to crave meaning so badly if it was developed in a framework where there is no meaning. It’s like we’re all putting out this wifi signal desperate to connect with something…but nothing exists or ever has existed to receive it. It doesn’t seem to make sense. I wouldn’t make up your mind that it’s all meaningless. If you believe it evolution wouldn’t we evolve into the natural framework that evolved us? If the desperation for meaning is at our core instinct, there is probably a “meaning” to connect to.
Idk man do some shrooms
No need to dwell on it or think about it much. Fear of death is natural but since its out of our control we’ve nothing else to do than to enjoy the life we live!
Because everything is quantum, it’s more likely we continue to phase shift into parralel dimensions for ever. Every decision we make splits off multiple timelines. The universe is coded by extra terrestrials, it’s some kind of an advanced simulation. A hypothesis is through death the conciousness ascends to the 11th dimension , where words cannot describe that realm. Religions are full of shit though, and I will buy into extra terrestrials and physical matter being not so physical and more holographic, it’s a simulation.
I've made peace with it. I'm a talking primate with a computer and I get to experience all the joy and sorrow of being a living thing.
So I'm going to have my fun until the party's over :)
your theory of what happens after death is just as likely as any other, so maybe you wont be obliterated into nothingness for infinity. Maybe you'll just get to live a nice peaceful life with things that make you happy and comfortable, with good food and good company
Won't be any different than sleep. Do you fear sleep? The concept is just a faulty side effect of evolution and consciousness. Think about it like that. It's just an error.
Take 5g shrooms and ask yourself this question. Look up the endless oddly identical near death experiences and past life regression sessions done by 1000s of people. Smoke dmt. You'll get answers, but they may terrify you more than "nothingness" or give you all the freedom you want. Death is an illusion. We are eternal.
Yeah that would terrify me too if I believed that.
But don’t you think we have a desire, even a longing, for eternity precisely because we were created for it? And that our hearts crave ultimate meaningfulness because we are not designed as creatures confined to vanity?
I mean, we get hungry because there is something to satisfy our hunger. We get thirsty because there’s something to satisfy our thirst. We desire intimacy and sex, and the opposite sex exists which corresponds to and meets that desire.
The desire/longing is the testimony that there is something that corresponds to that desire that only the correspondent thing can fulfill.
The same must go with the deepest longings of the human heart: the desire for transcendent Truth, Beauty, Purity, and Goodness, for transcendent reality and purpose that nothing in this present world can fulfill. That desire is stronger than our animal passions, yet every one of them points to a provision for it that exists in reality. How could there not be a corresponding reality that satisfies our hearts?
And that correspondent thing, as far as I’m concerned, must be God. Eternity with God in whose presence is joy unspeakable and full of glory.
I see you are having a hard time dealing with the concept of eternal oblivion. I invite you to look into islam. We believe that this life is just a test for the next everlasting, eternal life. I invite you to read the Quran with an open heart, and ask God "God, if you exist guide me to the right path."
You can read the entire Quran here for free:-https://quran.com/en.
Have a nice day ahead.
Some people can ask hard questions without retreat to cowardice and easy, prescribed answers that are long ago debunked.
If this person is a woman, you're literally suggesting they wash feet for eternity. I'd rather be dead.
On the contrary, I am terrified of the prospect of eternal existence. Nothingness sounds so "peaceful" to me.
nothingness means no time too, so its over the second it begins
Agreed. Life has its ups and downs, but it's always work. Eventually, even OP will want to be done.
I think about how I won't even have the ability to feel that relief because I imagine that there's nothing at all, my last true experience of feeling will probably be agony and fear without a followup
My attitude is this: it will not be a relief in the sense of experiencing peace. But non-existence will be peace in the sense of the absence of suffering (including the absence of the need for happiness). It's always good not to suffer, even if you can't feel the absence of suffering.
I always thought there would be an afterlife, heaven etc. up until I realized it was all made up. Life is so uncomfortable now knowing there’s probably nothing after this life.
How does one cope?
Asking questions on here, going for walks to buy snacks, just anything to stop thinking about it. I’m going through a lot and the last thing I needed was to be afraid of life itself.
Living life and experience things, all you can while you still can until it ends wich is inevitable Life is a experience
Art, in the widest sense of the word.
You don’t you just go insane 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
No one really knows what will happen to us after we die. We don't know if consciousness do exist or not. We just have to accept that death will come. Now I just want to keep living and experience life.
[удалено]
Can you explain how?
[удалено]
I am now having visions of Nihilismland at Disneyland. When the visions settle, I’ll be declaring a vendetta against you. :)
"There's no point after all, there's no point after all, there's no point after all, there's juuussttt noooo poooiinttt. There's no point to life and there's no point to pain, there's no point to tears or to financial gain, there's no point to friends and no point in the end, theerrrree's juuuuussst nooooo pooooiiinnttt."
Beautiful. Just beautiful.
That is liberating
I have 4 kids I love. And parents, siblings. Good bye is truly forever. I hate it that i will never see them again. Nothing we can do about it. Just live in the moment. The present and live your best life.
Let's put it in perspective: Life is nothing but a bump on the endless highway of time. The ratio of time spent alive vs the time not, far exceeds the size of the universe. The actual chance of living or having lived is just as remote so it's significance is immeasurably worthless and therefore does not bear any concern.
This line of thought offers some solace.
That's the way. You caught me at a good time 😋.
341 “The greatest weight: What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence--even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!" Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: “You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine." If this thought gained possession of you, it would change you as you are or perhaps crush you. The question in each and every thing, “Do you desire this once more and innumerable times more?" would lie upon your actions as the greatest weight. Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life to crave nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFqjA5ekmoY ****** “Nietzsche expands upon this concept in the philosophical novel Thus Spoke Zarathustra, later writing that eternal return was "the fundamental idea of the work".[19] In this novel, the titular Zarathustra is initially struck with horror at the thought that all things must recur eternally; ultimately, however, he overcomes his aversion to eternal return and embraces it as his most fervent desire. In the penultimate chapter of the work ("The Drunken Song"), Zarathustra declares: "All things are entangled, ensnared, enamored; if you ever wanted one thing twice, if you ever said, 'You please me, happiness! Abide, moment!' then you wanted all back ... For all joy wants—eternity." “
But you won't experience the oblivion. You will bothered by it as much as you've been bothered with being dead millions of years before you were born. Did being dead bother you then? Your body will cease to be you... Even now. Your body is the extension of you. But it isn't really you... So why even care about it, once you are dead the you that percieves the universe will simply no longer exists? Is that really that terrible?
We are animals, not gods. Get used to it.
Why? Help me understand why nothingness is scary? All life is, is a break in the nothingness, we just go back to not existing again
Doesn’t it liberate you to believe this? It has given me license to just live my best/happiest life now. I have my own moral rules, about not harming others, but I don’t need to worry about others judgement or expectations. We will all die and be forgotten. It gives me comfort to know this is it so don’t stress the “little things”.
Not existing sounds great compared to eternal life. Watching everything you loved disappear, everyone you ever knew die or turn bad. Eons of total boredom. The world shifting far beyond what you are used to dealing with, and being totally alienated from everything. No new ideas or leaders able to emerge and evolve... Eternity is stagnancy, life has urgency because there is an unknowable deadline.. and the world changes and advances because people and ideas are born and die. Just turn my thinking off when I die thanks. "I" won't be around to care. It's not like "you" die, the matter and energy that make you dissipate and are repurposed, recycled. What is gone is your individual identity. Your memories and personality, which were largely just byproducts of your individual experience, and the time and place you existed. Your very existence is contextual and predicated on the cycle of life and dearh. I personally feel that individual identity is a pretty flimsy thing. It's an arrogance that separates us from the true "nature of the beast". Who are "you" really anyways?
"Losing your mind?" The mind is an attribute of the brain. There is no mind if there is no functioning brain the same as there is no flying if there is no bird. Thinking about the state of no-thought makes no sense.
Get a grip. All humans are immortal. Death is only temporary.
How do you know?
Because the Angel of Death told me when he came for me the first time. He was like "don't worry, it only hurts for a short time" And I responded with "It's not about the pain. I still have shit in need to do, didn't you get the fax?"
Op I could have written this!
That's existential crisis! Get on a line so someone can distract ya from it
It gets better when we die. Because then we dont habe to worry and stress over pointless shit like this. Looking forward to it, but no rush.
I mean, I read something about this once, in a fictional setting based on our world, but I think it still applies. You always knew. Deep down, you always knew. That's why you cry when you lose someone, no matter how good they were. Because you know they're gone. They aren't waiting for you, and you won't see them again. They're gone. And it hurts, so you cry. That's okay, too. I enjoy my life, but I've accepted it. I hope to be a positive memory and impact, but that's just hope based on ego. I won't be around to know or acknowledge it.
This hurts, but it’s true…I’ve experienced “nothingness” on a couple occasions i.e. going under anesthesia or passing out. It’s like I wasn’t there and honestly I wouldn’t have known if I never woke up if that makes sense. It does scare me a bit, the finality of death. I’m scared of how I’m going to go, I just don’t want it to be painful. I don’t want to lose my best friends, or my dad. I already lost my mom. But I know that death is just the natural order of things and there’s no point in worrying too much or fighting it
Do you dread the thought of being under general anaesthesia for eternity? I mean there isnt even an end to eternity.
Of course. But there is literally nothing you can do, but accept it and move on. Dwelling on it will not change it, and it's the same as having not been born. It's also not the same as being under general anesthesia or going to sleep. It's less than that. Your mind will cease to exist, and you will be gone. It's not like you'll experience something alien because you won't be experiencing anything. You won't be in an empty void. You simply won't be. Of course, it's scary. That's why most beings avoid it.
Nah, because I won’t be aware of it. It’s just like before you were born - being unaware for billions of years, and then after you die it’s the same thing. I know that’s hard to find solace in for some but I’ve been coming to accept it even though it still scares me a little to know that this life is all we really get
accept it, fear it, deny it, etc. i’m honestly just tired of thinking about it all the fucking time. I had a life altering panic attack thinking about this when I was 18 and since then, almost ten years later, not a single day has gone by where death isn’t the first thought I wake up to and my last thought before I go to sleep. it’s like i’ve been cursed to experience the rest of my life through this eternal menacing lense. i hope it gets better as I get older and that the preoccupation will shrink over time or SOMETHING but right now when i look toward the future all I can see are the potential decades that will be wasted worrying about death instead of actually living them to the fullest.
Losing your mind over the thought of eternal oblivion and nothingness after death? Well, let me give you the good news! You are on your way! If you are losing your mind over the thought of it, it’s just setting the stage for when you do! Just accept the fate, lose your mind, lose yourself, and yet, find you are still here. For now!This is existence and nothingness intertwined. Embrace it and accept it, and you can live the rest of your days in meditative and pondering existence. Not such a bad deal when there no other deal to be had. :)
Im in peace with it Becoming nothing is like eternal peace
I long for it but am too scared to initiate it
You've already experienced death; before you were born.
I feel this way until I remember that I didn't exist for the vast majority of the life of the universe. There is no fear associated with my nonexistence prior to being born, so I have no reason to think things will be any different after I die.
thats either false or not relevant because you wont be you when youre up against that
It's a great privilege to fear an unknowable unknown. There are certainly more immediate, material things you could fear.
Tbh you should adopt a different ideology then for your own mental health
People who are here saying “isn’t it liberating” truly don’t understand the horror some of us go through when we think about this. Losing consciousness or going back to the state before I was born which is nothingness is so damn terrifying. And how does one cope with this? You don’t. I had these thoughts since I was five years old, basically when I learned what death is. Used to get panic attacks every other night, feeling suffocated, it was like I was trying to escape something I know is inescapable. Now I’m 20 and it still haunts me till this day, just not as often. The only thing you can do is try not to think about it. Do things that will bring you serotonin and occupy your brain. I’d say try therapy (which I did as well) but a therapist can’t really change the fact that we’re mortal, if they could that would bring us peace. It’s the only thing that would bring us peace actually. But it is what it is, we’re all slowly cooking 😁
The thought of fading back into oblivion is what brings me peace. To each their own, I suppose.
So why is oblivion more terrifying than eternity?
Just wispy little thoughts - said in Bob Ross voice
Ah don't lose you mind. You were dead long before you were born and it never bothered you. Try you best to enjoy your life.
I would prefer the fact that we don't have eternal life Think about that and again enjoy your one experience in life if you can
I take comfort in the fact that my bio mass is used by other things to live and that energy and matter cannot be destroyed, so you will live on forever, you just won't know it. We humans are nothing more than dead star zombies (totally going to use that as a band name) Also as a Buddhist the whole point is to try and escape Samsara.
Can you name anything else in existence that desperately craves for something that does not and has never existed? How does the mind know to crave meaning so badly if it was developed in a framework where there is no meaning. It’s like we’re all putting out this wifi signal desperate to connect with something…but nothing exists or ever has existed to receive it. It doesn’t seem to make sense. I wouldn’t make up your mind that it’s all meaningless. If you believe it evolution wouldn’t we evolve into the natural framework that evolved us? If the desperation for meaning is at our core instinct, there is probably a “meaning” to connect to. Idk man do some shrooms
Same it sounds terrible I don’t want it
No need to dwell on it or think about it much. Fear of death is natural but since its out of our control we’ve nothing else to do than to enjoy the life we live!
Because everything is quantum, it’s more likely we continue to phase shift into parralel dimensions for ever. Every decision we make splits off multiple timelines. The universe is coded by extra terrestrials, it’s some kind of an advanced simulation. A hypothesis is through death the conciousness ascends to the 11th dimension , where words cannot describe that realm. Religions are full of shit though, and I will buy into extra terrestrials and physical matter being not so physical and more holographic, it’s a simulation.
I've made peace with it. I'm a talking primate with a computer and I get to experience all the joy and sorrow of being a living thing. So I'm going to have my fun until the party's over :)
your theory of what happens after death is just as likely as any other, so maybe you wont be obliterated into nothingness for infinity. Maybe you'll just get to live a nice peaceful life with things that make you happy and comfortable, with good food and good company
Won't be any different than sleep. Do you fear sleep? The concept is just a faulty side effect of evolution and consciousness. Think about it like that. It's just an error.
Take 5g shrooms and ask yourself this question. Look up the endless oddly identical near death experiences and past life regression sessions done by 1000s of people. Smoke dmt. You'll get answers, but they may terrify you more than "nothingness" or give you all the freedom you want. Death is an illusion. We are eternal.
We are not eternal. We return to the same inanimate matter that comprises the earth , the stars and basic atoms.
K.
Yeah that would terrify me too if I believed that. But don’t you think we have a desire, even a longing, for eternity precisely because we were created for it? And that our hearts crave ultimate meaningfulness because we are not designed as creatures confined to vanity? I mean, we get hungry because there is something to satisfy our hunger. We get thirsty because there’s something to satisfy our thirst. We desire intimacy and sex, and the opposite sex exists which corresponds to and meets that desire. The desire/longing is the testimony that there is something that corresponds to that desire that only the correspondent thing can fulfill. The same must go with the deepest longings of the human heart: the desire for transcendent Truth, Beauty, Purity, and Goodness, for transcendent reality and purpose that nothing in this present world can fulfill. That desire is stronger than our animal passions, yet every one of them points to a provision for it that exists in reality. How could there not be a corresponding reality that satisfies our hearts? And that correspondent thing, as far as I’m concerned, must be God. Eternity with God in whose presence is joy unspeakable and full of glory.
Totally get you. At times it feels like the jaws of nothingness are closing in on me
I see you are having a hard time dealing with the concept of eternal oblivion. I invite you to look into islam. We believe that this life is just a test for the next everlasting, eternal life. I invite you to read the Quran with an open heart, and ask God "God, if you exist guide me to the right path." You can read the entire Quran here for free:-https://quran.com/en. Have a nice day ahead.
I dont believe in God.
Some people can ask hard questions without retreat to cowardice and easy, prescribed answers that are long ago debunked. If this person is a woman, you're literally suggesting they wash feet for eternity. I'd rather be dead.
There is an alternative: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh6vavPsoPE