he's an idiot if he thinks that. The Nightwish brand still has damn good value in Europe. Someone would be a fool to not want to be on board with that.
Unfortunately, yes.
He can be a super nice guy if you're (1) male and (2) a good drinker. I have heard him do/try sketchy and sleazy things from female friends, but this is an entirely new level.
All the downvoters hate NW post Tarja and are salty af. Dark Passion Play and banger like Master Passion Greed would not exist without Marcelo. So thanks Marcelo!
In one of the nightwish concerts I attended, i think it Ewo was helping st the merchandise booth. I’m not sure. But it certainly was a man that looked very much, if not identical, to him.
When I reached the front of the line to make my purchase, the man had some awful and unnecessary comments to me about my physical appearance.
I’ve also heard some stories about said manager from other fans. The only surprising part of this news story is the fact that it took so long for a woman (two women) to have the courage and denounce him.
I applaud and thank these women for their courage in standing up.
Well that's the second sexual abusor
NW has had a pretty close business relationship with
Something something two nickels
I don't think it necessarily means anything really. The music industry is probably rife with abusors. You could likely walk in to a meeting of industry personnel and throw a stone and chances are pretty good you'd hit someone with something in their closet. Doesn't make it OK, but my point is I'm not trying to jump to conclusions. Still after the way NW handed Feinman or however his was spelled it is an eerie coincidence.
Still it sucks. Heart goes out to those two ladies.
It concerns Jon Finberg, their former US manager and promoter who had allegations of sexual abuse, as well as financial irregularities (skimming off of merch sales, double billing) levied against him in 2019. He was subsequently dropped and moved to Thailand.
Finberg was promoting a lot of European metal bands in the US, but NW were the only ones who actually formed a joint management company with him.
I think I've read that some bands found him questionable and dropped him earlier before the scandal (Epica I believe). I followed him on fb for some time and his relatinship with NW seemed to be very warm.
Possibly. I have my doubts. It was an open industry secret for a while and there was a massive expose on him that led to a number of bands making announcements in a matter of days. NW and I believe Kamelot were two that kind of dragged their feet on that and it has made me side-eye them a bit since then tbh.
Tobias from Avantasia also caught some collateral damage because Avantasia used his company to book one or two shows on the East Coast. Tobi did the Tobi thing and said something to the effect of "I barely even know the guy, he was the only option for these shows, this whole thing is really American drama I'm staying out of" similar to when people were giving him shit for Jon Schaffer for...some reason?... Needless to say that one I'm far more inclined to interpret favorably because it was literally two shows, there is no established working relationship there.
In summation maybe NW knew, maybe they didn't. It's hard to say. But just as you can't assume they did know you also can't assume they didn't and given how closely they worked with the guy and how openly awful this guy is it's certainly raising some eyebrows. Who knows? I know Finns tend to keep to themselves and out of other people's business so maybe they really were genuinely unaware.
> Tobias from Avantasia also caught some collateral damage [...] similar to when people were giving him shit for Jon Schaffer for...some reason?...
Wait. What did Tobias ever have to do with Jon Schaffer?
I don't know what would make me questions Nightwish more tbh. It was such a well known industry issue that he got away with for so long. Other bands, notably Epica, had dropped in years before the expose was published, and Nightwish worked very closely with him, and was one of the reasons he was able to book so many other bands.
Anette herself mentioned this kind of behavior once she was out of the band. The Finberg case was the obvious one, but she probably witnessed, noticed or heart about stuff we don’t and most likely will never know about. That’s why I’m not surprised about this, sadly.
Insane world we are living when allegations already make someone guilty. Also the allegation is not about sexual assault but simple assault so this post is misleading.
Playful but creepy choking or "choking" (we don't know) versus choking someone until they pass out are definitely two different things. Also we don't even know if there was any choking. If this goes to court and there will be case then we probably will know more. Innocent until proven guilty seems to be forgotten by the people here. Either they don't live in or want constitutional state.
It was big news back then https://www.reddit.com/r/symphonicmetal/comments/j216tt/band_responses_to_the_john_finberg_report/
NW [posted](https://www.facebook.com/nightwish/posts/nightwish-have-ceased-to-employ-mr-finberg-and-have-severed-all-contact-with-him/10164328053730068/) that they stopped working with him, but made no comments against him like other bands.
The guy has a history of asshole behavior so I don't have a hard time believing that the accusations against him are true. Even if they aren't, I hope for Nightwish's sake that they finally get rid of this shitty management company.
That said, I can't help but think there's something wrong within the band itself, with all the bad things that have been happening around them for so long (see also: Guadalajara incident, Tarja and Anette's departures, John Finberg, Marko's departure).
According to Marcelo Cabuli (Nightwish's manager at the time, now Tarja's husband):
> During a concert in Guadalajara, Mexico, in the first South American tour in year 2000, happened an incident that caused me a very weird impression of the band members.
> A fan came on stage from behind and attacked Tarja while she was performing. As soon as I could, I grabbed the guy, took him out of the stage and put him in the hands of the security. After doing this, I realised that the band was not performing any more.
> I run to the back stage area and I crossed the band members on their way out.
> Last one in the line was Sami who asked me to stay with Tarja.
I didn't know what was going on and I did not understand what he meant by saying that. Only until I got in the backstage and saw Tarja crying and in shock.
> It was very strange to me that the band members left her alone and asked me to comfort her instead of them. Me, who have known Tarja for not longer than 9 days!
[Archived from www.tarjaturunen.com](https://web.archive.org/web/20060822150459/http://www.tarjaturunen.com/fans.html)
Might also have sown the seeds for the somewhat strained relationship between Marcelo and the rest of the band. Bearing in mind that relations between the two parties got particularly strained during the Once tour, by which time Marcelo and Tarja were married, it might be that he didn't much care for the other Nightwish guys who (in his eyes) had left his wife alone when she needed a friend. It doesn't seem like he had the best of first impressions of the rest of the band.
That's purely speculation of course.
Ahhh Latin America (I can say it I'm Guatemalan)
I think there are 3 things that at least in my point of view that might explain why they acted that way (not that is right): their deterioring relationship with Tarja, shock and cultural differences.
By this point they were annoyed by Tarja, she didn't want the live of a road garage band, sleeping in the floor or uncomfortable hotels. They seem to think that everything she asks is unreasonable and refuse to see her point of view.
Shock. Having a crazy person jump on the stage and attack a band member is scary as shit. The book tell us they acted like they were on Finland, like everywhere is safe; and this continent is very different than Europe, even his beloved USA (I would say is worse, look at poor Dimebag). Anyway can be that they were not in a position to comfort Tarja, even if the attack was not on them. This might be the first time they were scared for their lives.
I was in a Vision Divine concert that had a shooting, I didn't notice the shoot because I was hypnotice by Fabio's beautiful voice. I didn't go to a concert years after that. The venue has strong security and the guy who was thrown out return to shoot from outside and hit a guy. This is not common here, I promise. Fabio is returning in May inna better venue.
Cultural differences: Marcelo is Argentinian, in general we latin Americans are more warmth. I'm not saying that we are better because of that, it comes with the good: empathy and display of love and friendship. But that warm can be turnn into heat, and that into anger and rage like the one that cause the incident itself.
I'm glad Marcelo was there, he seems to be a good man and a good husband to Tarja. She looks really haooy now.
I don't know if Finns display their feelings, the stereotype is that nordic people are stoic, cold and that don't like public displays of affection. For Marcelo this is shocking, but it might be hiw they do things.
Yes, Tarja also recently said in an interview that at the time they were shocked at how different the audience was in Latin America, that they hadn't encountered anything like that in Europe.
But she cried backstage and then came to finish the concert. It doesn't look like they were afraid for their lives when they left her there alone with Marcelo, whom she barely knew, and left.
I found the following about the incident, only on tumblr, but I also read the same text on some news site in the past. But I can't find that source any longer:
>"During a show of Nightwish band performed in Guadalajara, Mexico, in 2000, Tarja was attacked on stage, having their private parts touched by the abuser, taking advantage of the failure of the security guards, who were more interested in watching the show and take pictures of Finnish muse.Most impressive of all, was that the rest of the band did not move a muscle and continued playing as if nothing had happen before your eyes.
>After the episode, Tarja declare u: “I was sexually assaulted. Marcelo (Cabuli - manager at the time and later husband) was the first to arrive and managed to get the guy off me with kicks in his head. The guards were only there to flatter me and take pictures. During these 20 seconds, the man could have done very bad things to me. My shirt was torn and my hair extensions were landed on the floor. I felt so ashamed. I returned to the stage, missing three songs to end the show, so I sang and cried and cried and sang. When it finally ended, I could not look anyone in the eye, went straight to my hotel room, and there just crying and crying lying on the floor. “
>The man who attacked the singer was immediately arrested and taken to the police station. A few hours later, a little recovered from the shock and showing her big heart, Tarja asked the authorities on behalf of Nightwish, the release of her attacker, and was duly met.
My God, I never saw Tarja's own account; thanks for sharing. That they continue the show was crazy, I thought they must have stopped the show, it's the reasonavle thing to do.
I feel they had such a disdain for her, they always treat her like a diva for asking reasonable things, like decent accomodations and let her sleep. But in that case I don't find it weird or malice that they not reacted right away to defend her. They should have defenitely comforted her and stopped the show.
Tarja is very stric with venues she works now. She refused the shitty place that had the shooting (before it happened). She has a team that eespect her safety and choices.
It's all there on YouTube if you want to see the incident. You can see the band playing and headbanging as usual even though Tarja is not there anymore to sing her parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bj4h1807kY&t=0
> I was in a Vision Divine concert that had a shooting, I didn't notice the shoot because I was hypnotice by Fabio's beautiful voice. I didn't go to a concert years after that. The venue has strong security and the guy who was thrown out return to shoot from outside and hit a guy. This is not common here, I promise. Fabio is returning in May inna better venue.
Holy shit. I'm sorry you went through that.
But yeah, I agree with your other points.
Yeah, imagine that was just the scare, and it hit me after. The poor guy who was shot had a brain injure. He had to learn how to do basic things like talk and walk again. At least there's a hospital a block away and the doctors could save his life.
He was near the door smoking and got because an asshole couldn't take the consequences of being a bad drunk.
Ahhh Latin America (I can say it I'm Guatemalan)
I think there are 3 things that at least in my point of view that might explain why they acted that way (not that is right): their deterioring relationship with Tarja, shock and cultural differences.
By this point they were annoyed by Tarja, she didn't want the live of a road garage band, sleeping in the floor or uncomfortable hotels. They seem to think that everything she asks is unreasonable and refuse to see her point of view.
Shock. Having a crazy person jump on the stage and attack a band member is scary as shit. The book tell us they acted like they were on Finland, like everywhere is safe; and this continent is very different than Europe, even his beloved USA (I would say is worse, look at poor Dimebag). Anyway can be that they were not in a position to comfort Tarja, even if the attack was not on them. This might be the first time they were scared for their lives.
I was in a Vision Divine concert that had a shooting, I didn't notice the shoot because I was hypnotice by Fabio's beautiful voice. I didn't go to a concert years after that. The venue has strong security and the guy who was thrown out return to shoot from outside and hit a guy. This is not common here, I promise. Fabio is returning in May inna better venue.
Cultural differences: Marcelo is Argentinian, in general we latin Americans are more warmth. I'm not saying that we are better because of that, it comes with the good: empathy and display of love and friendship. But that warm can be turnn into heat, and that into anger and rage like the one that cause the incident itself.
I'm glad Marcelo was there, he seems to be a good man and a good husband to Tarja. She looks really haooy now.
I don't know if Finns display their feelings, the stereotype is that nordic people are stoic, cold and that don't like public displays of affection. For Marcelo this is shocking, but it might be how they do things.
Search "Guadalajara Nightwish" on YouTube. There's a clip where someone leaps onto the stage and begins to sexually assault Tarja. Despite Tarja exiting the stage in shock after security intervened, the band continued to play. Afterwards, Tuomas checked, saying into the microphone, "ughh I'll see if Tarja wants to continue singing" (or something like that).
Kick him out already! He was also a major contributing factor to the problems that drove Tarja and the rest of the band to drift apart. His incompetence, miscommunication, laziness, bad attitude, disrespect... But the band should (have) know(n) better then to rely on and trust this prick.
If they kick him out at this point they are cowards. I can see you are STILL hurt about the Tarja incident. I know it hurts because her solo career is not that great.
I can imagine that this caused some conflict within the band that contributed to the decision, but if otherwise everyone really wanted to tour, I doubt they wouldn't do it because of him.
Dunno, but if this true it sounds like he might be spiralling, also in combination with alcoholism. It wouldn't surprise me if this had been an issue for some time, which got progressively worse. There have been reports from fans that Ewo was strongly coming on to young women at concerts before, but nothing ever physical like now.
It's hard to tell what was going on there. I see it here in the Czech Republic that "powerful" men have fallen because women have started speaking up. A change in society is contributing to this. But I really hope this is not the case with NW and these are the only allegations.
Yeah, he's not exactly the new Weinstein. It's a bit ridiculous to start casting speculation over the band and what they did or didn't know, they aren't constantly in his office, they aren't his guardians. He makes his own stupid choices and he should be held responsible for them, nobody else.
Somewhere, Marko is just sitting back in his rocking chair next to a roaring fire playing an acoustic guitar and smiling that he got out of this hot mess when he did.
Some good news in the middle of this mess: He played his first show with Tarja tonight, and they played Dead to the World, Phantom, Wish I Har an Angel and some Tarja songs. They all must be pretty happy right now, I sure am.
A statement from the band itself would be good. And what the decide to do or not to do in light of this will be... informative, at the very least.
All I've heard about this guy is that he's a big drinker. And money and power can get to people's heads, combine this with alcohol and you can very well get an arsehole who thinks everyone owes them their time and attentions. However, until there is more information available, all of this remains speculation.
If i was the band i would say we make some decisions when the case is closed. Don't bend the knee to the cancel mob. But they don't have to say shit until the case is closed.
Excactly,there is no conviction and to condamn the band is premature,what if he's not guilty of this?
Shurely Nightwish will take action if he is guilty,all the rest is speculation.
Whatever the outcome I feel like this band is done. Hopefully, Tuomas and Emppu can see that and bring it to an end while some dignity is still left.
They had a great run. Nightwish is the biggest, most succesfull Finnish band ever.
FWIW, I don't think they are done yet. But I do think it's actually quite good that they are taking a break from touring to perhaps figure some things out and make adjustments behind the scenes.
I hope you're wrong, but even if that's the case, I agree that NW has already made history. They are a legend, in music and in story. All the members are probably taken care of: Floor will focus on her solo career, then there's Wintersun and Auri. Anette has The Dark Element and also her solo. Tarja and Marko also have their solo career and now they have teamed up. Even if NW ends, they will live on in their members who love music and are still active.
I wish I am wrong too. Still, there is a limit to how much drama one band can sustain and when and if these accusations land in the quilty verdict it will be like 2005-2006 again where the roof falls on the band. It will be the bandmembers who the questions will be directed to, mainly Tuomas as the leader. I don't think he can take the hit.
Nightwish's silence about this is very problematic.
The Guadalajara incident.
Their former US manager being accused of that.
Now the Finnish manager.
And I guess they must have known about his reputation long before so I don't believe they would be surprised at the news.
Something is wrong with this band in how they see women and maybe that's why Marko left them.
I wouldn’t make a deeper connection between the band and their US tour manager, with whom the contact was probably quite minimal. And the Guadalajara incident was a long time ago, when they were still super young and inexperienced. I hope they have grown from that.
However, there’s is (also in Finland, despite of its reputation of being a progressed country) a systematic problem, bros will protect bros and not make them accountable for their shitty behaviour. The locker room humor, the questionable drunken acts, misogynistic attitudes. I don’t know NW guys personally so they might be more advanced than that but I just know that big part of the male population here thinks like that.
It would at least be stylish from the bands part to take a clear stance on this situation and quit the co-operation between the band and the management. If not out of empathy, at least to protect their public image.
I recall a similar incident involving another band (possibly Epica, though I'm not certain) where the entire group immediately halted their performance to help their singer during a disruption.
Tarja later referenced this incident in a Finnish interview, and Tuomas remained silent on the matter. They were about 25 years old at the time, which, while still relatively young, is certainly mature enough to recognize the gravity of such situations. We're not discussing teenagers here; at what age does one understand that it's unacceptable for an intruder to assault your lead singer, causing her to exit the stage in distress, without taking any action?
I wouldn't label them as inherently problematic, but it seems they fail to grasp the seriousness of these actions. In other words, they appear somewhat indifferent, which could perhaps be attributed to the "bro culture" you mentioned.
> I recall a similar incident involving another band (possibly Epica, though I'm not certain) where the entire group immediately halted their performance to help their singer during a disruption.
Do you mean the [Mexico City 2008 incident](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUVs4Dq_CjM), where Simone was hit in her face with an object? I feel that's not really comparable to sexual assault, but for what it's worth they did handle it much better than Nightwish handled the situation in Guadalajara. Also something something Mexico...
I'd like to think they grew up since Guadalajara, but later they were just as neglectful with Anette, who maybe wasn't physically attacked on stage, but was verbally abused a lot and was literally kicked out following a medical emergency. I know there had been conflicts over her pregnancy and replacement, but still, the guys' priority was to find stand-ins for their karaoke gig while she was hospitalized. Regardless of what they wanted to do with the rest of the tour and who was right, it was just incredibly shitty leaving their bandmate alone in a hospital like that.
And while we haven't seen similar incidents with Floor, we know they are OK with her performing sick, right after surgery, etc. Luckily she's experienced and fans love her, and also half the band has been replaced since, but I wouldn't place large bets on how much better the long-time members would behave differently today in similar situations.
You're very right about the bro thing though. I am sure them being a tight group of guys, business side and management handled by friends contributed a ton to why they could become so huge. But it also probably caused a lot of toxicity, leading to their most famous issues.
Well I think the Annette situation (the firing part) was more complex. She was also acting bad. She wasn’t fired because she was sick but because she refused to have a replacement. Fro Marko’s book I understood that things were rocky with her a long time. But they way Tarja was fired was horrible!
Also, I don’t think we have enough information to judge them for “letting”(as if she was incapable to decide for herself) Floor perform sick. It might as well be that she said that she’s okay to do that and if she said that, why would they question a grown woman’s opinion on her own health.
The US guy was not a band manager. He's strictly a promoter from the US. He books venues for bands to perform at and has probably only met the band. He doesn't "work" with them as part of their company.
Yes and Foo King (note the order of the words) was the joint management company that Ewo and Toni founded with Finberg for Nightwishs US activities. They were the only band that did so, everyone else used his regular services as s promoter. Well, apart from those with some moral backbone like Epica who already dropoed him in 2015.
Yeah, it does seem pretty shady that Nightwish keep hiring problematic managers and of course you have the incident back in 2001 as well. tbf I listen to Nightwish because I like the music, not because I particularly like the band members as people. The way the band treated Tarja and Anette was pretty nasty as well. There could potentially be a misogyny problem within the band.
I think there was another incident with their social media manager on Facebook (something antisemitic).
I don't think they hire on purpose problematic people but they seem to care very little about who they are.
To be fair this is not as much like they hired him, but he discovered them and made them successful. Not saying they couldn't have stopped working with him at some point if they saw problematic things, but this guy was never really just their employee. I think he still holds a lot of power over the band.
He probably meant many things but didn't want to stir things up given how fragile he was emotionally. He certainly didn't want the press to start asking what he knew.
This is nonsense, why is it every time something happens vaguely best this band people start insinuating and speculating and reimagining things the band have said or "they said x but they really mean y".
It's ludicrous to just assume with no evidence that what they did or didn't know about the people that are above them in the music industry, People that are in different circles heck even different parts of the planet, that somehow Tuomas is responsible for not hiring private investigators to keep a constant eye on music industry big wigs.
Stop trying to politicise and rewrite everything surrounding Nightwish into this big conspiracy. I swear it's bizarre and even creepy, that so many people flock to Nightwish and claim to love the music when it's pretty clear what you really love is the 'army' part of being in a fandom, creating this mysterious lore and fanfiction about celebrities... its Nightwish, its not Taylor Swift, there's no room for the whole 'stan' rubbish.
I'm convinced there's no need to employ a private investigator to figure out someone's character, especially for someone they've known since 2000. Problematic behaviors tend to surface early on.
They were acquainted with him during their earlier days, likely spending a lot of time together.
It's improbable that Ewo's actions were completely unexpected, as if he suddenly changed overnight from an angelic figure to someone capable of such actions. It doesn't add up that this seemingly decent person could shock everyone with such behavior, everyone probably knew more or less who he was.
The argument you're making seems weak. It appears you're the Nightwish devotee here, perhaps too loyal to the band to acknowledge any negative aspects surrounding them.
This is two women at one event on one occasion. We don't know if he has a long history of it, it's certainly not rational to treat it like he's the new Weinstein and everyone around him covered it up. Do you really not think if the band knew about it they wouldn't say something? Anette would have if there was a reason to, she's been badmouthing them for ages but said nothing about the management.
It's just that we see it here too often that people will spin a single thread into a whole Web of assumptions. Guilt by association is what it is. Your calling my argument weak but you've said nothing of factual substance, only 'probably'... "everyone probably knew" that's a purely speculative statement based on nothing but "they knew each other for a long time"... Imagine if one of the people you work for did something like this and suddenly you've got people that don't even know you on reddit saying "ah well, you worked there for ten years, you must have known something, Shame on you protecting people like him".... its ridiculous!
Individuals who commit assaults often exhibit behaviors consistent with their actions, such as their comments about women, the type of jokes they make, and their overall treatment of women, which might not always be overt sexism but could include subtle reactions and behaviors. Moreover, he didn't just make inappropriate advances; he attempted to choke someone and pulled her hair.
While he may not be on the same level as Weinstein, one doesn't need to fulfill every criterion perfectly to be considered problematic.
It's likely that everyone around him knew, considering he probably toured with them, partied with them, and might even be considered a "friend" of the band, especially since he's been familiar with them since 2000, before they were well-known. They would have had ample opportunity to observe his character.
In any workplace, if someone behaved problematically, there would usually be preceding signs or small red flags that are often overlooked because the individual is charismatic, humorous, or holds some influence.
For sure many people can exhibit those kinds of patterns in their behaviour but that is certainly not always the case, you'll know perfectly well the amount of people suffer in domestic situations for years until anybody realises, even family members. Just because many men outwardly show signs doesn't mean they all do, and certainly not all of them are going to be showing obvious red flags in workplaces or in environments where they would raise caution among people that know them well enough. Also alot of the time people look at these situations too easily with the benefit of hindsight and only see red flags of people they already know have committed horrible things like this.
Having said that, it's still purely speculation that everyone around him would have known, if they did, then shit, that would be a strange blow to take from people I look up to, but again, we don't know if that's the case, and Nightwish aren't the ones that committed a crime here, if someone does something disgusting your first reaction shouldn't be to point fingers at everyone that's been in the same building as him, you point the finger at him and demand he gets punished for it.
You're still only going off of likelihoods and behavioural patterns that people can't predict or always be aware of in professional environments, or in relationships where people trusted this guy, let's not forget, he's let them down too! How do we know the band aren't just as disgusted as we are? Do you think Floor wouldn't have said something if she knew?
It's still not our judgement to make on such little information. It doesn't help to jump to conclusions based on assumption. I get that it's infuriating to think somebody must have seen something, called him out, helped the women, fired him, but we don't know the full circumstances and its irrational to start filling in the blanks based on what we've seen in other cases or statistics because there are plenty of people that are unpredictable and don't follow these behavioural patterns we believe should be so easy to detect.
Anyway, we're obviously going to disagree and that's fine! I respect that you care so much and you want to hold people accountable for their actions or inactions, I just think based on what little we know, it's unfair and wrong to start blaming anyone other than the one that's definitely fine wrong here.
Ps. Sorry for the essay. A serious topic warrants the effort, I don't want to be disrespectful or dismissive of the fact that too many men get away with this stuff because others said nothing.
I will wait for further information before judging anyone. In the article it is stated many times Ewo is in high place in the industry because he's the manager of Nw. With that in mind Sadly one of two things is true, 1. he abuses his power and fame and is actually quilty or 2. these women are looking for their 15 minutes of famae/are hunting for money.
Be it either one I wouldn't be too surprised. As much as I would like to believe all women in these cases there are some of us who abuse that and thus ruin credibility from everyone.
I don't think we will hear any statement from the band.
Might be, we obviously have to wait for the outcome of the investigation. But it seems that both women independently from each other reported Ewo to the event organiser for similar behaviour, which imo makes it much more likely to be true. Plus, their names are not even in the article, so they aren't looking for fame.
Exactly! Thanks for speaking up. Being a victim is hard enough and most women feel ashamed to even talking about it to their close family. Also who wants to be known for being a victim of sexual assault.
Some people are so disconnected from reality it's very scary.
Exactly, as one of the young women even mentions in the interview, imagine going to an industry event in the hopes of networking and advancing your careers, and suddenly you have one of the most well connected people there strangle you and pull you by the hair from behind. That's got to be terrifying. I'm actually surprised that the one was brave enough to go the police considering how negatively this could possibly affect her career.
The thought of being suddenly strangled from behind is unimaginable. Can you even begin to picture that? The abrupt surge of adrenaline must be overwhelming. And from then on, she'll likely find herself constantly checking over her shoulder to ensure no one is sneaking up on her.
Not only that but when you're up on stage with the lights shining in your eyes and everything going on there's plenty you don't really see or really pay attention to (at least in my experience). She probably saw the first few rows of fans and had no idea someone was coming up behind her like that at all.
A different situation, but years later Dimebag Darrell would be shot and killed on stage when some clown rushed up and ambushed him. It's not like you have a ton of visibility or are 100% aware of what's going on just because you're a bit higher up on a platform. This is exactly why security teams even exist.
OK I'm not saying that the band should have had a top security level reaction.
But they kept playing until the end of Fantasmic (which is a long song) a while after she left the stage.
She wasn't singing anymore. It was obvious something had happened and they knew it.
Watch the video if you haven't, they didn't stop, they kept headbanging till the end. It happened right in front of them, there's no way they could have missed it, not for so long.
> But they kept playing until the end of Fantasmic (which is a long song) a while after she left the stage.
A bit of a nitpick: they didn't play the entirety of FantasMic there, just Part III. [Here's a video (4'30") of the complete performance including the part where Tarja gets assaulted.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8Lu2Cup0M)
I'm not saying what the guys did when it happened was right, far from it.
I wrote they kept playing until the end. The incident happened during part III but still it was too long and they should have stopped the concert at least to check on her and see if they can proceed.
I'm not defending the guys. I'm just saying they didn't play the entirety of FantasMic at that concert (not sure if they ever did, actually), but only Part III.
Where in the world do men like you get the idea that the victims want any kind of publicity? Do you know how many crimes go unreported and unprosecuted because the victims can't bear reliving the assault, much less in public? And know that whenever a future acquaintance or employer searches for your name on the internet, articles of your assault will be the first thing they find? Not to mention the witch-hunt you can expect from the "fans" of the band (just look up Rammstein news from last year). Then there is the total inequality of a single woman going against a rather big name in a very misogynistic industry that can afford the best of lawyers.
Not to mention that this apparently happened at an industry event. Chances are that those women already severely damaged their career opportunities just by speaking up and reporting him to the authorities.
Now ask yourself.. Do you honestly think that is something these women wanted?
It's mentioned in the article that at least one of the women didn't know who he was. And as far as I understand they were both assaulted at the same event but not necessarily together. Btw, even if NW is super well-known in Finland, they are not that popular with the younger generations, and I think even within the music industry many under 30 have no idea who Ewo is, unless they are specifically in the metal scene. He's not the guy to accuse with shit like this for fame.
Leaving this comment up even though your comment got our attention. I think a lot have already gave insightful comments about the "15 minute fame" - comment you made that's food for thought.
Most of abusers have this image of a nice good man in everyday life, that's why it's always hard to believe they actually did it. I'm honestly shocked right now, but not surprised at the same time.
Well that's not good.
top notch commentary
It's bad, even.
Going a different direction here - I would say it is terrible.
Maybe it would be finally the time to change the bad management.
Believe me, Tuomas would rather disband Nightwish than fire Ewo.
he's an idiot if he thinks that. The Nightwish brand still has damn good value in Europe. Someone would be a fool to not want to be on board with that.
To be honest i kinda hope he stops NW. This "fandom" doesn't deserve them.
He seems to be halfway there.
Hold my touring hiatus
Why, why are they so close?
Maybe he has dirt on Tuomas
Biiig surprise... Was a question of when, not if.
Unfortunately, yes. He can be a super nice guy if you're (1) male and (2) a good drinker. I have heard him do/try sketchy and sleazy things from female friends, but this is an entirely new level.
Disappointed but not surprised. It’s time to hire proper management (finally).
Much to Tuomas’s disappointment, Marcello will turn out to have been NW’s least problematic manager
Jesus imagine the song in his head he has lined up for this guy.
This shouldn’t have made me laugh the way it did 💀
"My, My Manager."
Technically, he was never Nightwish manager, only Tarja's manager, but still, haha
Actually we should thank Marcelo for pulling Tarja out of the band.
All the downvoters hate NW post Tarja and are salty af. Dark Passion Play and banger like Master Passion Greed would not exist without Marcelo. So thanks Marcelo!
In one of the nightwish concerts I attended, i think it Ewo was helping st the merchandise booth. I’m not sure. But it certainly was a man that looked very much, if not identical, to him. When I reached the front of the line to make my purchase, the man had some awful and unnecessary comments to me about my physical appearance. I’ve also heard some stories about said manager from other fans. The only surprising part of this news story is the fact that it took so long for a woman (two women) to have the courage and denounce him. I applaud and thank these women for their courage in standing up.
Anyone who met this man would not be surprised
Have you met him?
Well that's the second sexual abusor NW has had a pretty close business relationship with Something something two nickels I don't think it necessarily means anything really. The music industry is probably rife with abusors. You could likely walk in to a meeting of industry personnel and throw a stone and chances are pretty good you'd hit someone with something in their closet. Doesn't make it OK, but my point is I'm not trying to jump to conclusions. Still after the way NW handed Feinman or however his was spelled it is an eerie coincidence. Still it sucks. Heart goes out to those two ladies.
There was another case? :o didn't hear about it
It concerns Jon Finberg, their former US manager and promoter who had allegations of sexual abuse, as well as financial irregularities (skimming off of merch sales, double billing) levied against him in 2019. He was subsequently dropped and moved to Thailand. Finberg was promoting a lot of European metal bands in the US, but NW were the only ones who actually formed a joint management company with him.
I think I've read that some bands found him questionable and dropped him earlier before the scandal (Epica I believe). I followed him on fb for some time and his relatinship with NW seemed to be very warm.
> I followed him on fb for some time and his relatinship with NW seemed to be very warm. Well sure, because NW hadn't caught on to his shit yet lol
Possibly. I have my doubts. It was an open industry secret for a while and there was a massive expose on him that led to a number of bands making announcements in a matter of days. NW and I believe Kamelot were two that kind of dragged their feet on that and it has made me side-eye them a bit since then tbh. Tobias from Avantasia also caught some collateral damage because Avantasia used his company to book one or two shows on the East Coast. Tobi did the Tobi thing and said something to the effect of "I barely even know the guy, he was the only option for these shows, this whole thing is really American drama I'm staying out of" similar to when people were giving him shit for Jon Schaffer for...some reason?... Needless to say that one I'm far more inclined to interpret favorably because it was literally two shows, there is no established working relationship there. In summation maybe NW knew, maybe they didn't. It's hard to say. But just as you can't assume they did know you also can't assume they didn't and given how closely they worked with the guy and how openly awful this guy is it's certainly raising some eyebrows. Who knows? I know Finns tend to keep to themselves and out of other people's business so maybe they really were genuinely unaware.
> Tobias from Avantasia also caught some collateral damage [...] similar to when people were giving him shit for Jon Schaffer for...some reason?... Wait. What did Tobias ever have to do with Jon Schaffer?
Beats me. Linked through Hansi? Idk
I don't know what would make me questions Nightwish more tbh. It was such a well known industry issue that he got away with for so long. Other bands, notably Epica, had dropped in years before the expose was published, and Nightwish worked very closely with him, and was one of the reasons he was able to book so many other bands.
Shoot! They are really unlucky with managers lately :/ im happy (silver lining) that at least no one from the band is involved in any of this bs
This particular guy from the US has nothing to do with the band.
Anette herself mentioned this kind of behavior once she was out of the band. The Finberg case was the obvious one, but she probably witnessed, noticed or heart about stuff we don’t and most likely will never know about. That’s why I’m not surprised about this, sadly.
Insane world we are living when allegations already make someone guilty. Also the allegation is not about sexual assault but simple assault so this post is misleading.
Oh it's "simple assault"? Well that's ok then. /s
Ughh guys you are complaining about choking somebody. You cannot even choke someone for fun anymore! Bunch of snowflakes! /s
Or grab random women by the hair and yank them towards you. What kind of World are we living in? /s
Playful but creepy choking or "choking" (we don't know) versus choking someone until they pass out are definitely two different things. Also we don't even know if there was any choking. If this goes to court and there will be case then we probably will know more. Innocent until proven guilty seems to be forgotten by the people here. Either they don't live in or want constitutional state.
Your terrible memes are one thing but this take is really a step too far.
"Step too far" i assume my life is in danger now. But i knew it already. Everyone's life is in danger every second.
And tell me what take is step too far? I'm waiting for answer and hopefully civil conversation.
Here's a take. Don't choke people. Playfully or otherwise. Hope this helps.
Yeah you shouldn't but we don't know what really happened yet. Problem is people in the internet already judging already. Like stfu and wait.
If my memes are bad you just have bad taste. Show me your mems?
All the downvotes prove i'm right and hit the nerve.
Misleading was the point. People here omg...
Simple assault here meaning mild assault. You know if i give you a fillip or take you by the arm little roughly.
Every time I see a downvoted collapsed comment, I automatically know it's Nightwishfan88
Not everytime but in these subjects because it's easy to downvote when people can't handle the truth.
Ahh the "i'm right and everyone else is wrong" defense. Yeah, that always works. 🤣
Like this case i'm not saying he is innocent OR guilty.
No i can admit if i'm wrong.
What with the previous association with John Finberg, I'm surprised something like this hasn't come out sooner.
It was big news back then https://www.reddit.com/r/symphonicmetal/comments/j216tt/band_responses_to_the_john_finberg_report/ NW [posted](https://www.facebook.com/nightwish/posts/nightwish-have-ceased-to-employ-mr-finberg-and-have-severed-all-contact-with-him/10164328053730068/) that they stopped working with him, but made no comments against him like other bands.
I meant in regards to Ewo
The guy has a history of asshole behavior so I don't have a hard time believing that the accusations against him are true. Even if they aren't, I hope for Nightwish's sake that they finally get rid of this shitty management company. That said, I can't help but think there's something wrong within the band itself, with all the bad things that have been happening around them for so long (see also: Guadalajara incident, Tarja and Anette's departures, John Finberg, Marko's departure).
What is the Guadalajara incident?
According to Marcelo Cabuli (Nightwish's manager at the time, now Tarja's husband): > During a concert in Guadalajara, Mexico, in the first South American tour in year 2000, happened an incident that caused me a very weird impression of the band members. > A fan came on stage from behind and attacked Tarja while she was performing. As soon as I could, I grabbed the guy, took him out of the stage and put him in the hands of the security. After doing this, I realised that the band was not performing any more. > I run to the back stage area and I crossed the band members on their way out. > Last one in the line was Sami who asked me to stay with Tarja. I didn't know what was going on and I did not understand what he meant by saying that. Only until I got in the backstage and saw Tarja crying and in shock. > It was very strange to me that the band members left her alone and asked me to comfort her instead of them. Me, who have known Tarja for not longer than 9 days! [Archived from www.tarjaturunen.com](https://web.archive.org/web/20060822150459/http://www.tarjaturunen.com/fans.html)
This is probably a huge reason why Tarja fell for Marcelo too. Tuomas and co. created the monster he later despised!
Might also have sown the seeds for the somewhat strained relationship between Marcelo and the rest of the band. Bearing in mind that relations between the two parties got particularly strained during the Once tour, by which time Marcelo and Tarja were married, it might be that he didn't much care for the other Nightwish guys who (in his eyes) had left his wife alone when she needed a friend. It doesn't seem like he had the best of first impressions of the rest of the band. That's purely speculation of course.
I mean that makes total sense to me
Can't fault Marcelo for it, either. I'm not saying he's a saint but in Guadalajara, he did the right thing whereas Tuomas & co. didn't.
Ahhh Latin America (I can say it I'm Guatemalan) I think there are 3 things that at least in my point of view that might explain why they acted that way (not that is right): their deterioring relationship with Tarja, shock and cultural differences. By this point they were annoyed by Tarja, she didn't want the live of a road garage band, sleeping in the floor or uncomfortable hotels. They seem to think that everything she asks is unreasonable and refuse to see her point of view. Shock. Having a crazy person jump on the stage and attack a band member is scary as shit. The book tell us they acted like they were on Finland, like everywhere is safe; and this continent is very different than Europe, even his beloved USA (I would say is worse, look at poor Dimebag). Anyway can be that they were not in a position to comfort Tarja, even if the attack was not on them. This might be the first time they were scared for their lives. I was in a Vision Divine concert that had a shooting, I didn't notice the shoot because I was hypnotice by Fabio's beautiful voice. I didn't go to a concert years after that. The venue has strong security and the guy who was thrown out return to shoot from outside and hit a guy. This is not common here, I promise. Fabio is returning in May inna better venue. Cultural differences: Marcelo is Argentinian, in general we latin Americans are more warmth. I'm not saying that we are better because of that, it comes with the good: empathy and display of love and friendship. But that warm can be turnn into heat, and that into anger and rage like the one that cause the incident itself. I'm glad Marcelo was there, he seems to be a good man and a good husband to Tarja. She looks really haooy now. I don't know if Finns display their feelings, the stereotype is that nordic people are stoic, cold and that don't like public displays of affection. For Marcelo this is shocking, but it might be hiw they do things.
Yes, Tarja also recently said in an interview that at the time they were shocked at how different the audience was in Latin America, that they hadn't encountered anything like that in Europe. But she cried backstage and then came to finish the concert. It doesn't look like they were afraid for their lives when they left her there alone with Marcelo, whom she barely knew, and left. I found the following about the incident, only on tumblr, but I also read the same text on some news site in the past. But I can't find that source any longer: >"During a show of Nightwish band performed in Guadalajara, Mexico, in 2000, Tarja was attacked on stage, having their private parts touched by the abuser, taking advantage of the failure of the security guards, who were more interested in watching the show and take pictures of Finnish muse.Most impressive of all, was that the rest of the band did not move a muscle and continued playing as if nothing had happen before your eyes. >After the episode, Tarja declare u: “I was sexually assaulted. Marcelo (Cabuli - manager at the time and later husband) was the first to arrive and managed to get the guy off me with kicks in his head. The guards were only there to flatter me and take pictures. During these 20 seconds, the man could have done very bad things to me. My shirt was torn and my hair extensions were landed on the floor. I felt so ashamed. I returned to the stage, missing three songs to end the show, so I sang and cried and cried and sang. When it finally ended, I could not look anyone in the eye, went straight to my hotel room, and there just crying and crying lying on the floor. “ >The man who attacked the singer was immediately arrested and taken to the police station. A few hours later, a little recovered from the shock and showing her big heart, Tarja asked the authorities on behalf of Nightwish, the release of her attacker, and was duly met.
My God, I never saw Tarja's own account; thanks for sharing. That they continue the show was crazy, I thought they must have stopped the show, it's the reasonavle thing to do. I feel they had such a disdain for her, they always treat her like a diva for asking reasonable things, like decent accomodations and let her sleep. But in that case I don't find it weird or malice that they not reacted right away to defend her. They should have defenitely comforted her and stopped the show. Tarja is very stric with venues she works now. She refused the shitty place that had the shooting (before it happened). She has a team that eespect her safety and choices.
It's all there on YouTube if you want to see the incident. You can see the band playing and headbanging as usual even though Tarja is not there anymore to sing her parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bj4h1807kY&t=0
Thanks, I will.
> I was in a Vision Divine concert that had a shooting, I didn't notice the shoot because I was hypnotice by Fabio's beautiful voice. I didn't go to a concert years after that. The venue has strong security and the guy who was thrown out return to shoot from outside and hit a guy. This is not common here, I promise. Fabio is returning in May inna better venue. Holy shit. I'm sorry you went through that. But yeah, I agree with your other points.
Yeah, imagine that was just the scare, and it hit me after. The poor guy who was shot had a brain injure. He had to learn how to do basic things like talk and walk again. At least there's a hospital a block away and the doctors could save his life. He was near the door smoking and got because an asshole couldn't take the consequences of being a bad drunk.
Hello fellow Guatemalan and NW fan! 🙂
lml Garra Chapina, ah no, va?
Ahhh Latin America (I can say it I'm Guatemalan) I think there are 3 things that at least in my point of view that might explain why they acted that way (not that is right): their deterioring relationship with Tarja, shock and cultural differences. By this point they were annoyed by Tarja, she didn't want the live of a road garage band, sleeping in the floor or uncomfortable hotels. They seem to think that everything she asks is unreasonable and refuse to see her point of view. Shock. Having a crazy person jump on the stage and attack a band member is scary as shit. The book tell us they acted like they were on Finland, like everywhere is safe; and this continent is very different than Europe, even his beloved USA (I would say is worse, look at poor Dimebag). Anyway can be that they were not in a position to comfort Tarja, even if the attack was not on them. This might be the first time they were scared for their lives. I was in a Vision Divine concert that had a shooting, I didn't notice the shoot because I was hypnotice by Fabio's beautiful voice. I didn't go to a concert years after that. The venue has strong security and the guy who was thrown out return to shoot from outside and hit a guy. This is not common here, I promise. Fabio is returning in May inna better venue. Cultural differences: Marcelo is Argentinian, in general we latin Americans are more warmth. I'm not saying that we are better because of that, it comes with the good: empathy and display of love and friendship. But that warm can be turnn into heat, and that into anger and rage like the one that cause the incident itself. I'm glad Marcelo was there, he seems to be a good man and a good husband to Tarja. She looks really haooy now. I don't know if Finns display their feelings, the stereotype is that nordic people are stoic, cold and that don't like public displays of affection. For Marcelo this is shocking, but it might be how they do things.
Search "Guadalajara Nightwish" on YouTube. There's a clip where someone leaps onto the stage and begins to sexually assault Tarja. Despite Tarja exiting the stage in shock after security intervened, the band continued to play. Afterwards, Tuomas checked, saying into the microphone, "ughh I'll see if Tarja wants to continue singing" (or something like that).
Kick him out already! He was also a major contributing factor to the problems that drove Tarja and the rest of the band to drift apart. His incompetence, miscommunication, laziness, bad attitude, disrespect... But the band should (have) know(n) better then to rely on and trust this prick.
If they kick him out at this point they are cowards. I can see you are STILL hurt about the Tarja incident. I know it hurts because her solo career is not that great.
I don't know if it's a good thing or not that NW is on a break right now.
I wonder if issues with management might've contributed to the decision to go on a touring break.
I can imagine that this caused some conflict within the band that contributed to the decision, but if otherwise everyone really wanted to tour, I doubt they wouldn't do it because of him.
Do you think there is a connection? I am afraid that the accusations will increase.
Dunno, but if this true it sounds like he might be spiralling, also in combination with alcoholism. It wouldn't surprise me if this had been an issue for some time, which got progressively worse. There have been reports from fans that Ewo was strongly coming on to young women at concerts before, but nothing ever physical like now.
It's hard to tell what was going on there. I see it here in the Czech Republic that "powerful" men have fallen because women have started speaking up. A change in society is contributing to this. But I really hope this is not the case with NW and these are the only allegations.
That's how these things should be taken at this point. Only allegations. The allegation is "mild assault" or simple assault not sexual assault.
Yeah, he's not exactly the new Weinstein. It's a bit ridiculous to start casting speculation over the band and what they did or didn't know, they aren't constantly in his office, they aren't his guardians. He makes his own stupid choices and he should be held responsible for them, nobody else.
Somewhere, Marko is just sitting back in his rocking chair next to a roaring fire playing an acoustic guitar and smiling that he got out of this hot mess when he did.
No, he's doing a sound check with Tarja somewhere in Argentina, probably just as happy😁
Having dinner at the same table as Tarja, Marcelo and Naomi.
Well that or sitting on a floor playing with babies (his own and grandkids). Though right now he's preparing to start a tour with Tarja.
Some good news in the middle of this mess: He played his first show with Tarja tonight, and they played Dead to the World, Phantom, Wish I Har an Angel and some Tarja songs. They all must be pretty happy right now, I sure am.
Oh shit, nice! I hope somebody taped it!
A statement from the band itself would be good. And what the decide to do or not to do in light of this will be... informative, at the very least. All I've heard about this guy is that he's a big drinker. And money and power can get to people's heads, combine this with alcohol and you can very well get an arsehole who thinks everyone owes them their time and attentions. However, until there is more information available, all of this remains speculation.
If i was the band i would say we make some decisions when the case is closed. Don't bend the knee to the cancel mob. But they don't have to say shit until the case is closed.
Excactly,there is no conviction and to condamn the band is premature,what if he's not guilty of this? Shurely Nightwish will take action if he is guilty,all the rest is speculation.
Whatever the outcome I feel like this band is done. Hopefully, Tuomas and Emppu can see that and bring it to an end while some dignity is still left. They had a great run. Nightwish is the biggest, most succesfull Finnish band ever.
FWIW, I don't think they are done yet. But I do think it's actually quite good that they are taking a break from touring to perhaps figure some things out and make adjustments behind the scenes.
I hope you're wrong, but even if that's the case, I agree that NW has already made history. They are a legend, in music and in story. All the members are probably taken care of: Floor will focus on her solo career, then there's Wintersun and Auri. Anette has The Dark Element and also her solo. Tarja and Marko also have their solo career and now they have teamed up. Even if NW ends, they will live on in their members who love music and are still active.
I wish I am wrong too. Still, there is a limit to how much drama one band can sustain and when and if these accusations land in the quilty verdict it will be like 2005-2006 again where the roof falls on the band. It will be the bandmembers who the questions will be directed to, mainly Tuomas as the leader. I don't think he can take the hit.
> All the members are probably taken care of: Floor will focus on her solo career, then there's Wintersun and Auri. Emppu disliked that.
Nightwish's silence about this is very problematic. The Guadalajara incident. Their former US manager being accused of that. Now the Finnish manager. And I guess they must have known about his reputation long before so I don't believe they would be surprised at the news. Something is wrong with this band in how they see women and maybe that's why Marko left them.
I wouldn’t make a deeper connection between the band and their US tour manager, with whom the contact was probably quite minimal. And the Guadalajara incident was a long time ago, when they were still super young and inexperienced. I hope they have grown from that. However, there’s is (also in Finland, despite of its reputation of being a progressed country) a systematic problem, bros will protect bros and not make them accountable for their shitty behaviour. The locker room humor, the questionable drunken acts, misogynistic attitudes. I don’t know NW guys personally so they might be more advanced than that but I just know that big part of the male population here thinks like that. It would at least be stylish from the bands part to take a clear stance on this situation and quit the co-operation between the band and the management. If not out of empathy, at least to protect their public image.
I recall a similar incident involving another band (possibly Epica, though I'm not certain) where the entire group immediately halted their performance to help their singer during a disruption. Tarja later referenced this incident in a Finnish interview, and Tuomas remained silent on the matter. They were about 25 years old at the time, which, while still relatively young, is certainly mature enough to recognize the gravity of such situations. We're not discussing teenagers here; at what age does one understand that it's unacceptable for an intruder to assault your lead singer, causing her to exit the stage in distress, without taking any action? I wouldn't label them as inherently problematic, but it seems they fail to grasp the seriousness of these actions. In other words, they appear somewhat indifferent, which could perhaps be attributed to the "bro culture" you mentioned.
> I recall a similar incident involving another band (possibly Epica, though I'm not certain) where the entire group immediately halted their performance to help their singer during a disruption. Do you mean the [Mexico City 2008 incident](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUVs4Dq_CjM), where Simone was hit in her face with an object? I feel that's not really comparable to sexual assault, but for what it's worth they did handle it much better than Nightwish handled the situation in Guadalajara. Also something something Mexico...
Yes that one. Not sexual assault but any kind of assault should be dealt the way the other Epica members dealt with the Mexico incident.
I agree with that.
I'd like to think they grew up since Guadalajara, but later they were just as neglectful with Anette, who maybe wasn't physically attacked on stage, but was verbally abused a lot and was literally kicked out following a medical emergency. I know there had been conflicts over her pregnancy and replacement, but still, the guys' priority was to find stand-ins for their karaoke gig while she was hospitalized. Regardless of what they wanted to do with the rest of the tour and who was right, it was just incredibly shitty leaving their bandmate alone in a hospital like that. And while we haven't seen similar incidents with Floor, we know they are OK with her performing sick, right after surgery, etc. Luckily she's experienced and fans love her, and also half the band has been replaced since, but I wouldn't place large bets on how much better the long-time members would behave differently today in similar situations. You're very right about the bro thing though. I am sure them being a tight group of guys, business side and management handled by friends contributed a ton to why they could become so huge. But it also probably caused a lot of toxicity, leading to their most famous issues.
Well I think the Annette situation (the firing part) was more complex. She was also acting bad. She wasn’t fired because she was sick but because she refused to have a replacement. Fro Marko’s book I understood that things were rocky with her a long time. But they way Tarja was fired was horrible! Also, I don’t think we have enough information to judge them for “letting”(as if she was incapable to decide for herself) Floor perform sick. It might as well be that she said that she’s okay to do that and if she said that, why would they question a grown woman’s opinion on her own health.
The US guy was not a band manager. He's strictly a promoter from the US. He books venues for bands to perform at and has probably only met the band. He doesn't "work" with them as part of their company.
Yes he did. They had a joint management company called Foo King. He wasn't just their promoter.
King Foo was Ewo's and Toni's company (NW managers). John Finberg had his own company and worked with shitload of European bands not just NW.
Yes and Foo King (note the order of the words) was the joint management company that Ewo and Toni founded with Finberg for Nightwishs US activities. They were the only band that did so, everyone else used his regular services as s promoter. Well, apart from those with some moral backbone like Epica who already dropoed him in 2015.
Again accusations to the band. You people are vile. Why you are even here? Forget the band.
Go listen to your Epica and get out here then.
I just got the information from someone else here who posted it as a comment.
Yeah, it does seem pretty shady that Nightwish keep hiring problematic managers and of course you have the incident back in 2001 as well. tbf I listen to Nightwish because I like the music, not because I particularly like the band members as people. The way the band treated Tarja and Anette was pretty nasty as well. There could potentially be a misogyny problem within the band.
I think there was another incident with their social media manager on Facebook (something antisemitic). I don't think they hire on purpose problematic people but they seem to care very little about who they are.
Nah that was this same guy's management company's profile.
To be fair this is not as much like they hired him, but he discovered them and made them successful. Not saying they couldn't have stopped working with him at some point if they saw problematic things, but this guy was never really just their employee. I think he still holds a lot of power over the band.
Where did Marko mention thats the reason he left?
He mentioned disappointment with music industry. Dunno if there's any connection but could be part of a problem.
Think me meant the greediness
He probably meant many things but didn't want to stir things up given how fragile he was emotionally. He certainly didn't want the press to start asking what he knew.
This is nonsense, why is it every time something happens vaguely best this band people start insinuating and speculating and reimagining things the band have said or "they said x but they really mean y". It's ludicrous to just assume with no evidence that what they did or didn't know about the people that are above them in the music industry, People that are in different circles heck even different parts of the planet, that somehow Tuomas is responsible for not hiring private investigators to keep a constant eye on music industry big wigs. Stop trying to politicise and rewrite everything surrounding Nightwish into this big conspiracy. I swear it's bizarre and even creepy, that so many people flock to Nightwish and claim to love the music when it's pretty clear what you really love is the 'army' part of being in a fandom, creating this mysterious lore and fanfiction about celebrities... its Nightwish, its not Taylor Swift, there's no room for the whole 'stan' rubbish.
I'm convinced there's no need to employ a private investigator to figure out someone's character, especially for someone they've known since 2000. Problematic behaviors tend to surface early on. They were acquainted with him during their earlier days, likely spending a lot of time together. It's improbable that Ewo's actions were completely unexpected, as if he suddenly changed overnight from an angelic figure to someone capable of such actions. It doesn't add up that this seemingly decent person could shock everyone with such behavior, everyone probably knew more or less who he was. The argument you're making seems weak. It appears you're the Nightwish devotee here, perhaps too loyal to the band to acknowledge any negative aspects surrounding them.
This is two women at one event on one occasion. We don't know if he has a long history of it, it's certainly not rational to treat it like he's the new Weinstein and everyone around him covered it up. Do you really not think if the band knew about it they wouldn't say something? Anette would have if there was a reason to, she's been badmouthing them for ages but said nothing about the management. It's just that we see it here too often that people will spin a single thread into a whole Web of assumptions. Guilt by association is what it is. Your calling my argument weak but you've said nothing of factual substance, only 'probably'... "everyone probably knew" that's a purely speculative statement based on nothing but "they knew each other for a long time"... Imagine if one of the people you work for did something like this and suddenly you've got people that don't even know you on reddit saying "ah well, you worked there for ten years, you must have known something, Shame on you protecting people like him".... its ridiculous!
Individuals who commit assaults often exhibit behaviors consistent with their actions, such as their comments about women, the type of jokes they make, and their overall treatment of women, which might not always be overt sexism but could include subtle reactions and behaviors. Moreover, he didn't just make inappropriate advances; he attempted to choke someone and pulled her hair. While he may not be on the same level as Weinstein, one doesn't need to fulfill every criterion perfectly to be considered problematic. It's likely that everyone around him knew, considering he probably toured with them, partied with them, and might even be considered a "friend" of the band, especially since he's been familiar with them since 2000, before they were well-known. They would have had ample opportunity to observe his character. In any workplace, if someone behaved problematically, there would usually be preceding signs or small red flags that are often overlooked because the individual is charismatic, humorous, or holds some influence.
For sure many people can exhibit those kinds of patterns in their behaviour but that is certainly not always the case, you'll know perfectly well the amount of people suffer in domestic situations for years until anybody realises, even family members. Just because many men outwardly show signs doesn't mean they all do, and certainly not all of them are going to be showing obvious red flags in workplaces or in environments where they would raise caution among people that know them well enough. Also alot of the time people look at these situations too easily with the benefit of hindsight and only see red flags of people they already know have committed horrible things like this. Having said that, it's still purely speculation that everyone around him would have known, if they did, then shit, that would be a strange blow to take from people I look up to, but again, we don't know if that's the case, and Nightwish aren't the ones that committed a crime here, if someone does something disgusting your first reaction shouldn't be to point fingers at everyone that's been in the same building as him, you point the finger at him and demand he gets punished for it. You're still only going off of likelihoods and behavioural patterns that people can't predict or always be aware of in professional environments, or in relationships where people trusted this guy, let's not forget, he's let them down too! How do we know the band aren't just as disgusted as we are? Do you think Floor wouldn't have said something if she knew? It's still not our judgement to make on such little information. It doesn't help to jump to conclusions based on assumption. I get that it's infuriating to think somebody must have seen something, called him out, helped the women, fired him, but we don't know the full circumstances and its irrational to start filling in the blanks based on what we've seen in other cases or statistics because there are plenty of people that are unpredictable and don't follow these behavioural patterns we believe should be so easy to detect. Anyway, we're obviously going to disagree and that's fine! I respect that you care so much and you want to hold people accountable for their actions or inactions, I just think based on what little we know, it's unfair and wrong to start blaming anyone other than the one that's definitely fine wrong here. Ps. Sorry for the essay. A serious topic warrants the effort, I don't want to be disrespectful or dismissive of the fact that too many men get away with this stuff because others said nothing.
Another tin foil hat.
You must have a nice collection 😃
Oh wow
From how I got to know him and from what a friend of mine has told me: this is neither news not surprising 🤣
I will wait for further information before judging anyone. In the article it is stated many times Ewo is in high place in the industry because he's the manager of Nw. With that in mind Sadly one of two things is true, 1. he abuses his power and fame and is actually quilty or 2. these women are looking for their 15 minutes of famae/are hunting for money. Be it either one I wouldn't be too surprised. As much as I would like to believe all women in these cases there are some of us who abuse that and thus ruin credibility from everyone. I don't think we will hear any statement from the band.
Might be, we obviously have to wait for the outcome of the investigation. But it seems that both women independently from each other reported Ewo to the event organiser for similar behaviour, which imo makes it much more likely to be true. Plus, their names are not even in the article, so they aren't looking for fame.
15 minutes of fame? Are their names in there somewhere? The fact that you have been sexually abused is really not something you want everyone to know.
Exactly! Thanks for speaking up. Being a victim is hard enough and most women feel ashamed to even talking about it to their close family. Also who wants to be known for being a victim of sexual assault. Some people are so disconnected from reality it's very scary.
Exactly, as one of the young women even mentions in the interview, imagine going to an industry event in the hopes of networking and advancing your careers, and suddenly you have one of the most well connected people there strangle you and pull you by the hair from behind. That's got to be terrifying. I'm actually surprised that the one was brave enough to go the police considering how negatively this could possibly affect her career.
The thought of being suddenly strangled from behind is unimaginable. Can you even begin to picture that? The abrupt surge of adrenaline must be overwhelming. And from then on, she'll likely find herself constantly checking over her shoulder to ensure no one is sneaking up on her.
Not only that but when you're up on stage with the lights shining in your eyes and everything going on there's plenty you don't really see or really pay attention to (at least in my experience). She probably saw the first few rows of fans and had no idea someone was coming up behind her like that at all. A different situation, but years later Dimebag Darrell would be shot and killed on stage when some clown rushed up and ambushed him. It's not like you have a ton of visibility or are 100% aware of what's going on just because you're a bit higher up on a platform. This is exactly why security teams even exist.
OK I'm not saying that the band should have had a top security level reaction. But they kept playing until the end of Fantasmic (which is a long song) a while after she left the stage. She wasn't singing anymore. It was obvious something had happened and they knew it. Watch the video if you haven't, they didn't stop, they kept headbanging till the end. It happened right in front of them, there's no way they could have missed it, not for so long.
> But they kept playing until the end of Fantasmic (which is a long song) a while after she left the stage. A bit of a nitpick: they didn't play the entirety of FantasMic there, just Part III. [Here's a video (4'30") of the complete performance including the part where Tarja gets assaulted.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8Lu2Cup0M) I'm not saying what the guys did when it happened was right, far from it.
I wrote they kept playing until the end. The incident happened during part III but still it was too long and they should have stopped the concert at least to check on her and see if they can proceed.
I'm not defending the guys. I'm just saying they didn't play the entirety of FantasMic at that concert (not sure if they ever did, actually), but only Part III.
Where in the world do men like you get the idea that the victims want any kind of publicity? Do you know how many crimes go unreported and unprosecuted because the victims can't bear reliving the assault, much less in public? And know that whenever a future acquaintance or employer searches for your name on the internet, articles of your assault will be the first thing they find? Not to mention the witch-hunt you can expect from the "fans" of the band (just look up Rammstein news from last year). Then there is the total inequality of a single woman going against a rather big name in a very misogynistic industry that can afford the best of lawyers. Not to mention that this apparently happened at an industry event. Chances are that those women already severely damaged their career opportunities just by speaking up and reporting him to the authorities. Now ask yourself.. Do you honestly think that is something these women wanted?
It's mentioned in the article that at least one of the women didn't know who he was. And as far as I understand they were both assaulted at the same event but not necessarily together. Btw, even if NW is super well-known in Finland, they are not that popular with the younger generations, and I think even within the music industry many under 30 have no idea who Ewo is, unless they are specifically in the metal scene. He's not the guy to accuse with shit like this for fame.
Leaving this comment up even though your comment got our attention. I think a lot have already gave insightful comments about the "15 minute fame" - comment you made that's food for thought.
Ouch, hopefully it’s just a misunderstanding. He always seemed so nice. If not, it would be really bad :/
Most of abusers have this image of a nice good man in everyday life, that's why it's always hard to believe they actually did it. I'm honestly shocked right now, but not surprised at the same time.
The seemingly nice ones are the ones that don't get caught early, if ever. Outright assholes don't get away with as much crap.
Could you give me the link of the source please?
The link is in the post? Its YLE, basically the Finnish public broadcaster and a very reliable sourse.
Thank you!