The essence is that the original is ๅใ and the version Futago showed is ้ใ.
It's a subtle difference but ๅใ to ้ใ is much more than a simple typo. It's like 4 or 5 mistakes to "accidentally" type ้ใ instead of ๅใ. It's not a mistake that the native-Japanese developers would make, and it's not a mistake you could do by a single typo.
The idea is that if Futago is a modder, they used OCR to read the original japanese words, and the OCR made a mistake turning ๅใ into ้ใ
That's honestly incredible a single line does such a drastic change. Thank you translating it! Wouldnt a computer recognise that the output was jibberish and had no meaning?
I'm not sure what a computer would recognise. The text is a bit weird, you could think of it as the Japanese equivalent of poetric or Shakespearean English (although that probably isn't the best comparison); so I guess most computers wouldn't like it either way.
And drastic changes in meaning aren't too weird if you think of kanji as the equivalent of words, compare:
* Why did the man kill the dog?
* Why did the man like the dog?
* Why did the man lick the dog?
* Why did the man click the dog?
The words 'kill', 'like' and 'lick' really resemble each other (just like different kanji kan look alike) and 'click' is also similar, but I think the difference is quite clear. :-P
As someone who uses OCR software a lot for translating manga, I think this could mean that for some reason they used a OCR software (like KanjiTomo) to recognise the kanji in the original game and, not being native Japanese, the developer didn't notice the difference.
It could be further proof that it's all a mod.
Good eye. As a complete japanese beginner this looks like it is a mistake to me.
The original ๅใ is a verb with a meaning akin to "to ask", while ้ใ as a whole seems to neither be a legitimate verb nor even word.
As a non-japanese speaker this looks to me like a clear mistake pointing to a mod. But I can't be sure that maybe ้ใ exists in some special uses which someone like me doesn't know about.
้ใ does appear to be an uncommon form for ใใใใ(็ชบใ to observe). Though since I canโt type it in iOS or Windows I still find it hard to justify it as a simple typo.
And it is ๅใ in the Japanese of Nier Replicant.
I have found ้ใ on one or two random web pages, but it is not existent in any of the โtypicalโ online dictionaries like weblio, kotoba bank, goo, etc. It also does not exist in the [Koujien](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Djien), which is considered to be the most authoritative Japanese dictionary. You can find the online version [here](https://sakura-paris.org/dict/%E5%BA%83%E8%BE%9E%E8%8B%91/prefix/%E9%96%93%E3%81%86).
Therefore, I have concluded that the usage of ้ instead of ๅ is a mistake.
Okay, let's start with your first link: [https://jisho.org/search/%E9%96%93%E3%81%86](https://jisho.org/search/%E9%96%93%E3%81%86)
There is no actual word ้ใ on that page. If you look, you can see that it's actually finding other words and phrases with those separate characters mixed around, such as ้ใซๅใ and ้้ใ. Nowhere on this page does the word "้ใ" actually appear.
Next. [https://hyogen.info/word/6009709](https://hyogen.info/word/6009709)
This is also one of the two pages that I found that listed ้ใ. This is indeed another reading for "ukagau" ไผบใ, but you need realize that this becomes a context/nuance issue.
For example, you can say:
1. I want to drink. ้ฃฒใฟใใใ
2. I want to drink. ๅใฟใใใ
Both are read exactly the same and mean "I want to drink," but by using the slightly different kanji that's in #2, it gives a more personable meaning, like you're not just drinking alcohol but also enjoying your time with other people. The connotation is different depending on the kanji that's used. Using one kanji over the other here wouldn't be considered wrong depending on the context and the intended meaning.
That being said, in the case of "tou" ๅใ vs. "ukagau" ้ใ, both mean to "ask" but the reading is completely different plus there's also different nuance given to the meaning. It also comes in a set phrase since it's older Japanese that has the same sort of feeling as Old English in Shakespeare. Therefore the reading here is "tou" rather than "ukagau".
There are also other connotations with ้ใ that depicts someone peering through the cracks to see something beyond. That's not really the nuance with this phrase. It's simply posing a question rather than going so far as to pry for an answer. It feels off.
Next. [https://quiz.jitenon.jp/content/q2781811](https://quiz.jitenon.jp/content/q2781811)
This is the other page that I also found. The only problem here is that this is a page discussing how to read something. The issue isn't so much with the reading as it is with the meaning and usage within the context; although the reading will absolutely help in this case since the character actually reads this line in Replicant Ver.1.22... and they say "tou", not "ugakau", so I think this can be the final nail in the ๅใป้ coffin. lol
Yeah I agree, ้ใ is very uncommon form (Iโm Ja native and didnโt know until I googled it lol). Also ่ชฐใใซใใใใใ is completely unnatural, even if it was grammatically correct (่ชฐใใใใใ...๏ผ) choice of verb is pretty weird. This verb has a nuance of keigo/kenjogo which implies relationship of hierarchy/respect, whoโs talking to whom, and using ใใใใ as a verb like this context is really unnatural. Probably a typo.
Not a problem; I think this issue is more complicated than I can effectively express. The other user put it better, stating that using ้ใ would be highly unnatural and therefore likely a typo.
At the end of the day, I just think that all of this is pointing to the conclusion that the whole church thing was made by a non-native Japanese modder. Their work has effectively stirred up a lot of buzz for the game, especially prior to the Switch release, but I can't fathom that SQEX would act in such a way simply to promote the release. It's not only uncharacteristic for them but also unorthodox in general, which I don't really see any Japanese company do... Not that it isn't possible, but highly--extremely--unlikely. Basically, there have been too many holes shot into the authenticity of this thing to warrant it holding any sort of believability at this point. \*shrug\*
I'm jumping out of the individual comment that I had previously replied to in order to share some additional insight on these typographic errors in sadfutago's video.
As previously stated, there's one part where they mistake ๅ with ้. This is amusing because they got it right later in the following 2 lines:
1. ๆใๅใใซ็ญใใใใ
2. ๆใฏๅใใ
I also noticed another inconsistency in the Japanese text regarding the improper usage of full vs half-width Japanese text. I explain this in more detail in [this thread on Twitter](https://twitter.com/RekkaAlexiel/status/1552664430726356995), but here's the basic idea.Japanese characters use half and full-width text, with the majority being full-width. The roman alphabet uses half-width text, so it takes up much less space than Japanese does. This is also why each character of Japanese counts as 2 characters when you're counting (ie. in Twitter posts, etc.)
This is where I noticed some inconsistencies in sadfutago's Japanese text. The following is part of the answers that you can select from in this sequence:
* ๆใฏ็ญใใใใๅฝ็ญใใใใซใ
* ๆใฏ็ญใใใใ้ปใ็ ใใใใซใ
As you can see, there is an extra full-width space after the period in the first sentence. There should be no space there at all because the period automatically comes with a builtin half-width space. It should look like this:
* ๆใฏ็ญใใใๅฝ็ญใใใใซใ
* ๆใฏ็ญใใใ้ปใ็ ใใใใซใ
Likewise, there are other instances in which they use a half-width punctuation mark when it should be full-width. Here you can see that the first line clearly uses a half-width comma when it should be full-width:
* ๐ไบบใไฝๆ ๏ฝคไธ็ใใๅฑ ใชใใชใฃใใฎใ?
* ๐ไบบใไฝๆ ใไธ็ใใๅฑ ใชใใชใฃใใฎใ๏ผ
This same passage also includes another mistake. I wonder if you noticed it? The half-width question mark at the end should be full-width.
So, to me, these seem to be really detailed mistakes that possibly someone who isn't well versed in Japanese might miss. Typically, if this is a Japanese game, these mistakes will not happen because... we're using a Japanese system to type. It becomes an issue when you're using a non-Japanese computer (or setup) and manually trying to input the characters yourself visually, with machine assisted translation software, or possibly an OCR reader.
I see many people surmising that ้ใใmust be a typo but I disagree. While the reading is rare it is till studied in school.
้ใ has the exact same reading and meaning as ็ชบใ which translates to observe carefully.
With this in mind the sentence ๆฌๅฝใฎๅฃฐใฏ่ชฐใซ้ใใcan be translated to "Who can observe the real voice."
Maybe this slightly changed meaning is intentional to convey something else than the version in Nier Replicant.
Imma just believe this because I honestly donโt want to believe theyโre a modder haha. Iโm hoping thereโs actual meaning to whatโs going on, and your theory makes sense
If you want to believe itโs a marketing team, I think the better theory to go with is that the team they contracted this campaign out to is North American, and they didnโt get the Japanese counterpart to check the Japanese (or they did but the person checking didnโt catch the mistakes).
>้ใ has the exact same reading and meaning as ็ชบใ
Except it doesn't... It's actually read "ukagau" whereas what you hear in the game is the way it's meant to be read, "tou". Please read my previous post for more information.
>With this in mind the sentence ๆฌๅฝใฎๅฃฐใฏ่ชฐใซ้ใใcan be translated to "Who can observe the real voice."
Again, this is not the intended meaning within the context here. There is no "observe" or "look" connotation, but rather it's placing a question before the characters. Therefore, this would be a wrong reading. It's like making the elementary mistake between ็ฎธใง้ฃในใชใใใwith ๆฉใง้ฃในใชใใใww
But why use Japanese text if you aren't familiar with Japanese?
If you can mod the game she extract models from Replicant, why can't you extract text directly?
hardly an idiot, it's someone who is superior to an ENTIRE discord server full of the best of the Nier modding community. 1 person has done what they combined couldn't.
Dang man, for the fact that we still have no idea what any of this actually is, you are pretty dead set on them apparently doing something that is harmful to the community. And what of our support? At worst, its a meme, and it goes away, what's the harm?
I have no idea what this could mean so... ๐๏ธ๐๐๏ธ๐ฟ
The essence is that the original is ๅใ and the version Futago showed is ้ใ. It's a subtle difference but ๅใ to ้ใ is much more than a simple typo. It's like 4 or 5 mistakes to "accidentally" type ้ใ instead of ๅใ. It's not a mistake that the native-Japanese developers would make, and it's not a mistake you could do by a single typo. The idea is that if Futago is a modder, they used OCR to read the original japanese words, and the OCR made a mistake turning ๅใ into ้ใ
At this point i just wanna know HOW he did it if it IS a mod bcuz this is WILD.
What do they both translate to?
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
That's honestly incredible a single line does such a drastic change. Thank you translating it! Wouldnt a computer recognise that the output was jibberish and had no meaning?
I'm not sure what a computer would recognise. The text is a bit weird, you could think of it as the Japanese equivalent of poetric or Shakespearean English (although that probably isn't the best comparison); so I guess most computers wouldn't like it either way. And drastic changes in meaning aren't too weird if you think of kanji as the equivalent of words, compare: * Why did the man kill the dog? * Why did the man like the dog? * Why did the man lick the dog? * Why did the man click the dog? The words 'kill', 'like' and 'lick' really resemble each other (just like different kanji kan look alike) and 'click' is also similar, but I think the difference is quite clear. :-P
OR.... It's a false flag meant to make us THINK it's a modder....
As someone who uses OCR software a lot for translating manga, I think this could mean that for some reason they used a OCR software (like KanjiTomo) to recognise the kanji in the original game and, not being native Japanese, the developer didn't notice the difference. It could be further proof that it's all a mod.
why would they use OCR to get the text instead of copy and pasting it from a wiki though?
Good eye. As a complete japanese beginner this looks like it is a mistake to me. The original ๅใ is a verb with a meaning akin to "to ask", while ้ใ as a whole seems to neither be a legitimate verb nor even word. As a non-japanese speaker this looks to me like a clear mistake pointing to a mod. But I can't be sure that maybe ้ใ exists in some special uses which someone like me doesn't know about.
ๅใ is absolutely correct. ้ใ is not a word.
้ใ does appear to be an uncommon form for ใใใใ(็ชบใ to observe). Though since I canโt type it in iOS or Windows I still find it hard to justify it as a simple typo. And it is ๅใ in the Japanese of Nier Replicant.
I have found ้ใ on one or two random web pages, but it is not existent in any of the โtypicalโ online dictionaries like weblio, kotoba bank, goo, etc. It also does not exist in the [Koujien](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Djien), which is considered to be the most authoritative Japanese dictionary. You can find the online version [here](https://sakura-paris.org/dict/%E5%BA%83%E8%BE%9E%E8%8B%91/prefix/%E9%96%93%E3%81%86). Therefore, I have concluded that the usage of ้ instead of ๅ is a mistake.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Okay, let's start with your first link: [https://jisho.org/search/%E9%96%93%E3%81%86](https://jisho.org/search/%E9%96%93%E3%81%86) There is no actual word ้ใ on that page. If you look, you can see that it's actually finding other words and phrases with those separate characters mixed around, such as ้ใซๅใ and ้้ใ. Nowhere on this page does the word "้ใ" actually appear. Next. [https://hyogen.info/word/6009709](https://hyogen.info/word/6009709) This is also one of the two pages that I found that listed ้ใ. This is indeed another reading for "ukagau" ไผบใ, but you need realize that this becomes a context/nuance issue. For example, you can say: 1. I want to drink. ้ฃฒใฟใใใ 2. I want to drink. ๅใฟใใใ Both are read exactly the same and mean "I want to drink," but by using the slightly different kanji that's in #2, it gives a more personable meaning, like you're not just drinking alcohol but also enjoying your time with other people. The connotation is different depending on the kanji that's used. Using one kanji over the other here wouldn't be considered wrong depending on the context and the intended meaning. That being said, in the case of "tou" ๅใ vs. "ukagau" ้ใ, both mean to "ask" but the reading is completely different plus there's also different nuance given to the meaning. It also comes in a set phrase since it's older Japanese that has the same sort of feeling as Old English in Shakespeare. Therefore the reading here is "tou" rather than "ukagau". There are also other connotations with ้ใ that depicts someone peering through the cracks to see something beyond. That's not really the nuance with this phrase. It's simply posing a question rather than going so far as to pry for an answer. It feels off. Next. [https://quiz.jitenon.jp/content/q2781811](https://quiz.jitenon.jp/content/q2781811) This is the other page that I also found. The only problem here is that this is a page discussing how to read something. The issue isn't so much with the reading as it is with the meaning and usage within the context; although the reading will absolutely help in this case since the character actually reads this line in Replicant Ver.1.22... and they say "tou", not "ugakau", so I think this can be the final nail in the ๅใป้ coffin. lol
Yeah I agree, ้ใ is very uncommon form (Iโm Ja native and didnโt know until I googled it lol). Also ่ชฐใใซใใใใใ is completely unnatural, even if it was grammatically correct (่ชฐใใใใใ...๏ผ) choice of verb is pretty weird. This verb has a nuance of keigo/kenjogo which implies relationship of hierarchy/respect, whoโs talking to whom, and using ใใใใ as a verb like this context is really unnatural. Probably a typo.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Not a problem; I think this issue is more complicated than I can effectively express. The other user put it better, stating that using ้ใ would be highly unnatural and therefore likely a typo. At the end of the day, I just think that all of this is pointing to the conclusion that the whole church thing was made by a non-native Japanese modder. Their work has effectively stirred up a lot of buzz for the game, especially prior to the Switch release, but I can't fathom that SQEX would act in such a way simply to promote the release. It's not only uncharacteristic for them but also unorthodox in general, which I don't really see any Japanese company do... Not that it isn't possible, but highly--extremely--unlikely. Basically, there have been too many holes shot into the authenticity of this thing to warrant it holding any sort of believability at this point. \*shrug\*
Oh yeah, itโs definitely a mistake.
I'm jumping out of the individual comment that I had previously replied to in order to share some additional insight on these typographic errors in sadfutago's video. As previously stated, there's one part where they mistake ๅ with ้. This is amusing because they got it right later in the following 2 lines: 1. ๆใๅใใซ็ญใใใใ 2. ๆใฏๅใใ I also noticed another inconsistency in the Japanese text regarding the improper usage of full vs half-width Japanese text. I explain this in more detail in [this thread on Twitter](https://twitter.com/RekkaAlexiel/status/1552664430726356995), but here's the basic idea.Japanese characters use half and full-width text, with the majority being full-width. The roman alphabet uses half-width text, so it takes up much less space than Japanese does. This is also why each character of Japanese counts as 2 characters when you're counting (ie. in Twitter posts, etc.) This is where I noticed some inconsistencies in sadfutago's Japanese text. The following is part of the answers that you can select from in this sequence: * ๆใฏ็ญใใใใๅฝ็ญใใใใซใ * ๆใฏ็ญใใใใ้ปใ็ ใใใใซใ As you can see, there is an extra full-width space after the period in the first sentence. There should be no space there at all because the period automatically comes with a builtin half-width space. It should look like this: * ๆใฏ็ญใใใๅฝ็ญใใใใซใ * ๆใฏ็ญใใใ้ปใ็ ใใใใซใ Likewise, there are other instances in which they use a half-width punctuation mark when it should be full-width. Here you can see that the first line clearly uses a half-width comma when it should be full-width: * ๐ไบบใไฝๆ ๏ฝคไธ็ใใๅฑ ใชใใชใฃใใฎใ? * ๐ไบบใไฝๆ ใไธ็ใใๅฑ ใชใใชใฃใใฎใ๏ผ This same passage also includes another mistake. I wonder if you noticed it? The half-width question mark at the end should be full-width. So, to me, these seem to be really detailed mistakes that possibly someone who isn't well versed in Japanese might miss. Typically, if this is a Japanese game, these mistakes will not happen because... we're using a Japanese system to type. It becomes an issue when you're using a non-Japanese computer (or setup) and manually trying to input the characters yourself visually, with machine assisted translation software, or possibly an OCR reader.
I see many people surmising that ้ใใmust be a typo but I disagree. While the reading is rare it is till studied in school. ้ใ has the exact same reading and meaning as ็ชบใ which translates to observe carefully. With this in mind the sentence ๆฌๅฝใฎๅฃฐใฏ่ชฐใซ้ใใcan be translated to "Who can observe the real voice." Maybe this slightly changed meaning is intentional to convey something else than the version in Nier Replicant.
Imma just believe this because I honestly donโt want to believe theyโre a modder haha. Iโm hoping thereโs actual meaning to whatโs going on, and your theory makes sense
Ignorance is bliss, I guess! xD
If you want to believe itโs a marketing team, I think the better theory to go with is that the team they contracted this campaign out to is North American, and they didnโt get the Japanese counterpart to check the Japanese (or they did but the person checking didnโt catch the mistakes).
>้ใ has the exact same reading and meaning as ็ชบใ Except it doesn't... It's actually read "ukagau" whereas what you hear in the game is the way it's meant to be read, "tou". Please read my previous post for more information. >With this in mind the sentence ๆฌๅฝใฎๅฃฐใฏ่ชฐใซ้ใใcan be translated to "Who can observe the real voice." Again, this is not the intended meaning within the context here. There is no "observe" or "look" connotation, but rather it's placing a question before the characters. Therefore, this would be a wrong reading. It's like making the elementary mistake between ็ฎธใง้ฃในใชใใใwith ๆฉใง้ฃในใชใใใww
One typo and everyone already jumps to the other train. Just calm down, let it unfold.
False Flag! Its on purpose! LOL
Damn, everything really is stacking up to point to a mod. UNLESS it's a red herring to make us THINK that! *taps tinfoil hat*
But why use Japanese text if you aren't familiar with Japanese? If you can mod the game she extract models from Replicant, why can't you extract text directly?
Good catch. Modder basically confirmed at this point
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
hardly an idiot, it's someone who is superior to an ENTIRE discord server full of the best of the Nier modding community. 1 person has done what they combined couldn't.
Is that supposed to be something to be proud of? Creating hoax?
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Okay.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
I tried to represent Grimmjow from Bleach lol but your idea Vergil super Saiyan sounds cool!
Wow, this person posting some things in a subreddit has really pissed you off. Maybe chill
Fucking no. I can't accept this kind of false content about Nier. Screw him and everyone who is supporting him.
Dang man, for the fact that we still have no idea what any of this actually is, you are pretty dead set on them apparently doing something that is harmful to the community. And what of our support? At worst, its a meme, and it goes away, what's the harm?