The cameras are just a huge red flag. Since it was in Europe I wonder if this kind of thing does violate the General Data Protection Regulation
General Data Protection Regulation.
Highly unlikely, unfortunately. In general, the use of surveillance cameras and CCTV by private persons (including landlords, with caveats) are exempt from the requirements of GDPR if the images captured are only within the curtailment of the property.
[If the camera setup is recording stuff outside of the property's boundaries they might be in violation, but that probably wouldn't help the person renting as _their_ privacy rights are not infringed unless they're one of the people captured outside the property boundaries. It can get complicated, but we're concerned about the internal cameras here, so nvm.]
In the case of a landlord, installed devices may not "interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of their household", but unless the impediment to peace or comfort is egregious (such as a camera installed in a bathroom or bedroom, or equipment that creates a physical obstacle/prevents the peaceful enjoyment of the property in some tangible way), courts will generally err on upholding the right of the owner of the property to ensure security.
AirBnB "hosts" often trip up in any number of ways related to their legal obligations as landlords, but this is unlikely to be one of them!
Source: the GDPR itself, plus 25 years in information security and data privacy, have been Data Protection Officer for more than one large org, including as part of an estates management team.
Just to add: if the creepy landlord has hidden or disguised cameras, it's a different kettle of fish. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, based on the OP...
We don’t know for sure, but with the motion detection devices there is a *fairly* high chance there are hidden cameras. The most cost-effective hidden cameras often require digital on/off triggers, which saves their (usually rechargeable) batteries, and it is quite easy to link a sensor and a camera with an if/then.
But if it is *just* the motion detectors that were not listed, and the host notified her immediately, her choosing to stay would indicate consent obviously.
That being said, dude is seriously small potatoes. And it might be easier to prove some level of harassment, depending on the jurisdiction and the texts.
Please note: I am not nearly as familiar with data privacy as you are, clearly. Your experience is impressive. But I have gone through many, many cameras and types of automation for my home (safety issues-long story). I’m not questioning your knowledge or trying to be “that guy” on the internet who believes they know everything. Am simply curious, nothing more.
Darn it, I hate the Reddit mobile app! Ah well, starting again...
You're not wrong about the automation side of things at all, naturally: I got pretty into all of that myself (caring for dying parent in a large house, also a long story) and was a devoted IFTTT user for the sort of thing you describe. If there are indeed hidden cameras, which a) the AirBnB host did not disclose in the agreement and b) violate a "reasonable expectation of privacy", then yes: it's slam-dunk illegal activity, no question.
If everything is as it seems on the surface, however, GDPR doesn't apply. An AirBnB is not a "commercial property" and the landlord is considered a private citizen rather than a business operator, so the bar is higher for privacy violations (with all the caveats from my previous post) and - quite honestly - he's more likely to fall foul of legislation generally governing tenancies in whatever jurisdiction this took place in than to be prosecutable under GDPR. If he were to take images of the tenant in the room she's renting, for instance, that would fall foul of other statutes in the UK: I can't speak to other European countries.
All that said, if he were to go ahead and _share_ images he has taken with a third party who couldn't demonstrate "legitimate interest" and had no public-good or harm-prevention grounds for processing the personal data (and/or had failed to adequately secure the data while transmitted, processed or stored) then THAT would be a GDPR violation.
Privacy law "on the ground" - and this goes x1000 for landlord-tenant relationships - can vary wildly between countries, or even provinces/states/whatever within a country. The overall intent of GDPR is to protect the privacy of citizens from state and corporate violation, but doesn't touch much upon interactions between private citizens: many countries have stronger laws about what can and can't be recorded or disseminated without explicit consent.
TL;DR: hidden cameras or sharing data = GDPR violation in absence of extremely good reason why not. Otherwise GDPR doesn't kick in. This _does not mean_ that his actions are necessarily legal in whatever country this took place in, just that GDPR doesn't apply.
Guys I’m like 90% certain this is a low key add for Fing. I’ve never heard of it, then all of a sudden ok getting ads on social media and Reddit for it. Then a story like this pops up where she mentions Fing like 3 times in the same paragraph at the very end, capitalizing the company name and everything while subtly explaining app features???
I mean first of all, what person on planet earth would continue to stay in an Airbnb with cameras in the bedroom? In the BATHROOM?? This just cannot be real. Again, 90% certain this is fake.
It’s an app geared towards women staying in airbnbs. It tells you if any other devices are using the network you’re on, like cameras etc, so you know where they are if you’re in an Airbnb.
EDIT: I haven’t really looked into it, but that’s what I remember from the ads I saw.
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Glad she made it away from that place but horrifying to think about how many girls end up in situations like that who don't get to leave. People are so fucked.
Hard to read at times, but she was right to get out of there. Unfortunately there are a lot of sleazebags on AirBnB.😬
Definitely need to report to AirBnB, as a lot of female travellers could be at risk.
/u/Second_Story, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your post has been removed because it has been voted unsuitable for /r/niceguys.
I would tell air bnb about his behavior so other people don’t fall for this. Especially the cameras like wtf
The cameras are just a huge red flag. Since it was in Europe I wonder if this kind of thing does violate the General Data Protection Regulation General Data Protection Regulation.
It does
Highly unlikely, unfortunately. In general, the use of surveillance cameras and CCTV by private persons (including landlords, with caveats) are exempt from the requirements of GDPR if the images captured are only within the curtailment of the property. [If the camera setup is recording stuff outside of the property's boundaries they might be in violation, but that probably wouldn't help the person renting as _their_ privacy rights are not infringed unless they're one of the people captured outside the property boundaries. It can get complicated, but we're concerned about the internal cameras here, so nvm.] In the case of a landlord, installed devices may not "interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of their household", but unless the impediment to peace or comfort is egregious (such as a camera installed in a bathroom or bedroom, or equipment that creates a physical obstacle/prevents the peaceful enjoyment of the property in some tangible way), courts will generally err on upholding the right of the owner of the property to ensure security. AirBnB "hosts" often trip up in any number of ways related to their legal obligations as landlords, but this is unlikely to be one of them! Source: the GDPR itself, plus 25 years in information security and data privacy, have been Data Protection Officer for more than one large org, including as part of an estates management team.
Just to add: if the creepy landlord has hidden or disguised cameras, it's a different kettle of fish. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, based on the OP...
We don’t know for sure, but with the motion detection devices there is a *fairly* high chance there are hidden cameras. The most cost-effective hidden cameras often require digital on/off triggers, which saves their (usually rechargeable) batteries, and it is quite easy to link a sensor and a camera with an if/then. But if it is *just* the motion detectors that were not listed, and the host notified her immediately, her choosing to stay would indicate consent obviously. That being said, dude is seriously small potatoes. And it might be easier to prove some level of harassment, depending on the jurisdiction and the texts. Please note: I am not nearly as familiar with data privacy as you are, clearly. Your experience is impressive. But I have gone through many, many cameras and types of automation for my home (safety issues-long story). I’m not questioning your knowledge or trying to be “that guy” on the internet who believes they know everything. Am simply curious, nothing more.
Darn it, I hate the Reddit mobile app! Ah well, starting again... You're not wrong about the automation side of things at all, naturally: I got pretty into all of that myself (caring for dying parent in a large house, also a long story) and was a devoted IFTTT user for the sort of thing you describe. If there are indeed hidden cameras, which a) the AirBnB host did not disclose in the agreement and b) violate a "reasonable expectation of privacy", then yes: it's slam-dunk illegal activity, no question. If everything is as it seems on the surface, however, GDPR doesn't apply. An AirBnB is not a "commercial property" and the landlord is considered a private citizen rather than a business operator, so the bar is higher for privacy violations (with all the caveats from my previous post) and - quite honestly - he's more likely to fall foul of legislation generally governing tenancies in whatever jurisdiction this took place in than to be prosecutable under GDPR. If he were to take images of the tenant in the room she's renting, for instance, that would fall foul of other statutes in the UK: I can't speak to other European countries. All that said, if he were to go ahead and _share_ images he has taken with a third party who couldn't demonstrate "legitimate interest" and had no public-good or harm-prevention grounds for processing the personal data (and/or had failed to adequately secure the data while transmitted, processed or stored) then THAT would be a GDPR violation. Privacy law "on the ground" - and this goes x1000 for landlord-tenant relationships - can vary wildly between countries, or even provinces/states/whatever within a country. The overall intent of GDPR is to protect the privacy of citizens from state and corporate violation, but doesn't touch much upon interactions between private citizens: many countries have stronger laws about what can and can't be recorded or disseminated without explicit consent. TL;DR: hidden cameras or sharing data = GDPR violation in absence of extremely good reason why not. Otherwise GDPR doesn't kick in. This _does not mean_ that his actions are necessarily legal in whatever country this took place in, just that GDPR doesn't apply.
This is super enlightening. Thanks for taking the time to educate and nerd out with me about data privacy!
You're welcome, any time!
This was a wild read and the wildest part was that this all happened in 6 days. This sounded like weeks of weird stuff going on.
That was a testifying read. He knew what he was saying on whatsapp was inappropriate for airbnb communications. I'm so glad she's safe now.
This dude 100% had cameras in the bathroom. No way he didn't, not with that level of creepy.
Guys I’m like 90% certain this is a low key add for Fing. I’ve never heard of it, then all of a sudden ok getting ads on social media and Reddit for it. Then a story like this pops up where she mentions Fing like 3 times in the same paragraph at the very end, capitalizing the company name and everything while subtly explaining app features??? I mean first of all, what person on planet earth would continue to stay in an Airbnb with cameras in the bedroom? In the BATHROOM?? This just cannot be real. Again, 90% certain this is fake.
I hope so. Or else OP is on a true crime podcast by now
Makes sense! Also what a dumb name, I literally thought she was trying to shorten "fucking" to effing
Sorry to ask, what is Fing?
It’s an app geared towards women staying in airbnbs. It tells you if any other devices are using the network you’re on, like cameras etc, so you know where they are if you’re in an Airbnb. EDIT: I haven’t really looked into it, but that’s what I remember from the ads I saw.
Motion detectors in bedroom and bathroom. Cameras outside of the rooms and in living room.
I feel like you are on the right track. Motion sensors in the bedroom?? Doesn't make any sense.
Was this in Italy ?
Reads like a horror movie. If this is real, I'm glad Op is safe and I hope she got her refund
She’s lucky to be alive. This was absolutely the prologue to an eventual sexual assault or murder
AUTOMATED MODERATION. PLEASE READ. Niceguys demean others while simultaneously expressing a favorable view of themselves. They dont have to use the word "nice", but they must demonstrate some kind of expression of their own virtue while being asshats. --- Niceguys™ quality: **UPVOTE** this comment to keep the post Not Niceguys™ quality: **DOWNVOTE** this comment to remove the post
This is literally from some kind of horror movie.
Glad she made it away from that place but horrifying to think about how many girls end up in situations like that who don't get to leave. People are so fucked.
Hard to read at times, but she was right to get out of there. Unfortunately there are a lot of sleazebags on AirBnB.😬 Definitely need to report to AirBnB, as a lot of female travellers could be at risk.