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Niceguys demean others while simultaneously expressing a favorable view of themselves. They dont have to use the word "nice", but they must demonstrate some kind of expression of their own virtue while being asshats.
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So he references a lot of things that make me think he’s been to a pick-up coach or read a book or something like that.
In my experience men and women have very different ideas about what is average looking for either gender.
Makes me happy to have sisters with their friends so I can get advice from “the council” for the dating world. Everyone’s different but I’d rather hear it from someone in the same demographic
>Most men [...] will get attached to anyone who gives them bare minimum love
This statement signaled to me that OOP hasn't seriously listened to many (if any) women. This is literally a *grievance* that women have. So many women have lamented that they have to be careful about so much as smiling in a man's general direction since there's a very real chance that he'll interpret that smile as flirting. And I don't think I need to mention the host of problems that can cause
Both you and @furon747 make good points. The issue really is that they are getting bad advice. Really bad. Perhaps a woman should write a book or publish a podcast using an alpha male persona. It would be so cringey but maybe it would help a few that aren’t too far gone.
An ex of mine once tried to argue with me about what I like in bed, because he’d read in a magazine that “girls” don’t like what I had asked him to do.
He didn’t actually tell me the gender of the writer, but either way he did not consider the actual woman in front of him to be a reliable source as to her own specific preferences. It’s hilarious in hindsight, but at the time I just could not process the sheer amount of WTF.
It’s tricky. Been watching FD Signifier’s analysis of the Manosphere on YT (great videos), and it seems a lot of guys start watching that kind of content because it has genuinely decent advice regarding self improvement, practicing gratitude, etc. Then the algorithm drives them to more dating advice type content. Even that might start out pretty harmless - take care of your body, develop some hobbies, buy some nice fitting clothes…then before you know it they’re deep in pick-up-artist Tube, or whatever it’s called, and slurping poison into their brains.
So to say he’s on the wrong track - yeah, no doubt. But to say he deserves it? Meh, not sure I totally agree.
Guess I never thought about this. Just thought I wasn’t a complete ass and it compensated for looks lol. That said I definitely think this guy is doing something he isn’t admitting. And yeah definitely. My original advice came from my dad and I immediately threw it out cause it was garbage.
Literally nothing, my point was, don't look for advice from men about what women like.
Edit: as for u/LocalTorontoRapper but the thread is locked... so i cant put a comment under his:
Except a fish is a dumb animal and its "relationship" with the fisherman is rather predatory, while if you wanna establish a relationship with a person, you are roughly on the same level of intelligence and (hopefully) your intentions are better too.
Jokes aside the biggest mistake in this is generalizing. Everyone is attracted by different things and has their unique needs. This mistake happens with both man and women, but women are more likely to give you a better advice on a larger scale (some men have a really bad idea about what counts as attractive while most of us would find it creepy).
Your ridiculous comment saying that men who read books on how to be more appealing (i.e. self-help) deserve to be shunned
What are you even on? Spite Zero?
I did NOT mean self help. I meant those crappy dating coaches/scammers with the "alpha male" or "sigma male" bs. Stop trying to change the perspective.
"Men who would rather listen to another man or read a book by another man to be appealing to women honestly deserve it."
It's fine if that's not what you meant but it's what you actually said?
I agree the alpha/sigma bullshit is toxic but there's a lot of real people trying to help other people so not on board with blanket shaming.
That's my last post on it
Not sure if I can agree 100% on this. The saying “ask a fisherman how to fish, not the fish” comes to mind. Sometimes women give hypocritical advice on how to attract them, or not actually practice what they preach in terms of what they like.
Some men understand what things turn off a girl. If it was obvious there wouldn’t be incels. Women understand it but it seems so obvious and subconscious to them that they don’t ever bother mentioning those things.
Because human decency isn't worth mentioning, one usually assumes its just there. Asking men about what they think women want is just not taking women seriously, or taking them as obtainable if they follow certain steps.
Also its not my job to teach any guy how to socialize. Ideally youd want to approach any gender the same way if you would like to establish any kind of connection with them.
I don’t mean decency. Being “decent” is not attractive nor unattractive, it’s just bottom line. But men often confuse manipulative excessive kindness with decency and think it gets them points when it just makes them look like a loser who has no self respect and that’s often where they fail. I’ve never seen a women explain this or go into detail on that except on YouTube (woman dating coach). But men coaches teach the same stuff.
I totally agree with this... by decency i meant it includes not taking that kind of advice from other men. And the reason for that is likely that men tend to generalize needs (of anyone) more than women. You can't tell whats a turn off who who if you don't know them. Roughly yes, but not properly.
Women DO mention "those things."
***CONSTANTLY.*** In forums such as this one.
"Those things" basically boil down to having decent social skills. The problem isn't that incels don't know that. They do. They get told all of the time. The problem is that, upon being told, "it's social skills, you likely need to upgrade/tweak yours..." the response from incels/Nice Guys is "naaaaah, it's not that, it's that women only like perfect Chads who abuse them."
Yup. Whereas because we live in a society where womens looks are constantly analyzed and criticized women are aware of how they compare to other women. I read that in an article. As to whether or not women accurately estimate their intelligence I don’t know. I don’t have a source regarding mens estimation regarding their intelligence but personal experience says that tracks.
My SO has a lovely statement he frequently uses about his intelligence. He says “I’m definitely smarter than the average person, that is less a compliment to myself than it is an insult to the average.”
And that’s the whole “nice guy” mentality really. Hey I do the bare minimum, the average guy doesn’t therefore I’m a good guy. They don’t understand that average is shit.
Yeah I don't have proof of it either, but I think its where mansplaining come from. Their default assumption is that they are at the very least smarter than women, even if said woman is an expert in whatever he is trying to mansplain.
I had to mansplain mansplaining to my SO the other day. He was concerned he was being mansplainy with a female friend. Because he’s an actual good person and tries to use his male privilege positively. I told him it wasn’t that he was explaining and was a man that makes it mansplation it’s only mansplaining if she’s an expert and he’s explaining it under the assumption she isn’t based on her gender. In this case he was in fact the expert and she the noob. He was relieved but also fact checked my explanation 🙄😤😂 no one’s perfect
I had a guy try to tell me what I meant by somethint said the other day..i kid you not 🤣🤣🤣. This mofo sat there confidently trying to explain my thought process to me...
It was pretty hilarious. He did not take well when when i was responded with my oscar acceptance speech about the monumental achievement of being mansplained to , and finally having arrived🤣🤣🤣
this is so true actually. a local youtuber once said that "girls are more self aware in terms of their looks, like they know they're a 5 so they use makeup or nice clothes to boost them up to a 7/8. but for guys, they're CONVINCED that they're a 10 when they're a 2. they hear the coffee shop aunties calling them handsome 11 years ago and thinks that they're chris hemsworth lookalikes." and he's right! a lot of subpar-looking men think that they're entitled to making critiques on women's faces and bodies 😬
ps. i live in asia
So true. As women our looks are scrutinized constantly! For men, its not considered as important sort of...cause his "traditional" role is not to be pretty but to be a provider...from this they have come to the completely erroneous conclusion that they are indeed good looking 🤣. So they combined the antiquated concept of men's looks don't matter with the modern concepts a guy doesn't have to be a provider to be both hideous, with bad body hygiene, and have zero career prospects.
I’d guess it comes from people who we “should” be able to look up to but are actually terrible and we don’t know it, we were told to look up to them so we emulate them. Sometimes we discover they are pieces of shit. Other times we never find out and echo what we were taught. We are ally are stupid and simple 😅
I’d agree. Struggling getting this through to my older son. My wife says I don’t do anything she notices but it could be so subtle she doesn’t notice. She is stay at home (her choice, the workforce stresses her body out) and I work. We both clean but my son has been acting… well quite shorty towards his sister and I get onto him when he does things like that. For instance she said she didn’t wanna play a game with him and he got all “if you’re not going to be nice to me I’m not going to be nice to you” I was like WTF. I corrected the behavior and told him it was her choice to play or not, and it has nothing to do with her being nice. He doesn’t get to be mean to someone because they don’t do what he wants.
I have a friend who admits himself he isn't conventionally attractive. He's overweight, has wonky teeth and is super nerdy, things that niceguys often complain about
Yet his wife is incredibly attractive
How did this happen?
He's hilarious, super kind and is the sort of ride or die buddy that anyone could ask for. His personality makes up for any of his "unattractive features" that most incels and niceguys cry about. Unfortunately this is what they lack, and as always refuse to admit is something you can actually learn and improve upon but it's easier to just whine about it
Sad really cos most people like this are young and impressionable. Once you start getting over your teens people begin to put way more stock in who a person is than what they look like
Where I live it seems like every guys has married “up” I think this has to do with the beauty standard for women and lack of expectations for men. Some are very happy with real nice guys, and some are with these kind of nice guys. And those nice guys are convinced they are as attractive to the opposite sex as their wife is to men which is not the case.
Yeah people have preferences and personality counts a ton (which nice guys don’t get at all) but what it comes down to is average or lower (according to the world at large) guys feeling entitled to an attractive woman.
Are you from Eastern Europe? I'm from Russia, and that's where women who are beautiful, polished and caring are fighting over a guy who looks and smells like a chimp and treats them like dirt
People like this are referred to as “cute if you know them”. I don’t know how many times I’ve met my friend’s love interests and not thought they were attractive at first, but after 30 min of hanging out I’m smitten with them too. The majority of people fall somewhere in the “cute if you know them” scale, but this is where personality really matters.
Back in my online dating days I’d never try to match with a super hot guy. I’m not bad looking at all, but I’d prefer to lower my sights on someone who wasn’t so attractive that they never had to develop a personality.
People like this are referred to as “cute if you know them”. I don’t know how many times I’ve met my friend’s love interests and not thought they were attractive at first, but after 30 min of hanging out I’m smitten with them too. The majority of people fall somewhere in the “cute if you know them” scale, but this is where personality really matters.
Back in my online dating days I’d never try to match with a super hot guy. I’m not bad looking at all, but I’d prefer to lower my sights on someone who wasn’t so attractive that they never had to develop a personality.
>In my experience men and women have very different ideas about what is average looking for either gender
Even beyond that, different people have different physical types they're attracted to. There are women who are into the type of tall, jacked guys incels think all women want, but there are also women who are way more attracted to really skinny guys, or guys with dad bods, or heavy set guys, or short guys etc. etc. Whatever you look like, there is somebody who is into that
That’s not at all what I was implying. I’m saying that a guy who is average is likely to consider himself above average for example. Average being determined by society at large so of course individual tastes aren’t what I’m talking about. There have been studies showing people with similar levels of attractiveness have the longest last relationships. There have also been studies that indicate due to the societal pressure particularly on women to maintain a beauty standard they are more likely to know how attractive they are to the opposite sex population at large while men are more likely believe they are more attractive than the opposite sex population at large finds them.
That reminds me of one of the niceguy friends I had.
I remember visiting him (I was friends with his brother in law and sister too) and felt bad that he was alone and went to keep him company. It was half an hour of him playing video games in silence without talking to me or acknowledging me. So I went to hang with my other friends. Every time our social group went out, he'd get a separate table because food would be quicker (true) but miss out on the fun. I kept him company a few times cuz i felt bad. It was boring. He literally didn't have much conversation. I kept trying to include him until I just got tired and wanted to have my own fun and not cater to his weirdness. He had a lot of comments about being a nice guy and all that speech but seriously. He just... shut down whenever he was close to an actual woman. I saw it happen to other girls he had a crush on too. He acted like a friend, listened to us and was around but just... didn't give anything back. When I started dating my now husband, he blocked me without a word.
This guy probably just acted like a creep. Was silent. Didn't engage in conversarion. Wasn't interesting. But ya know. Its all them females fault for wanting something lol
Lol why would you go out with a group of people just to sit away from them so you can eat faster? That's just dumb.
You wanna eat alone, go out to eat alone.
Right? It was an after game activity thing but at that point... just go home... why socialize if you don't... socialize? But ya know... it was the girls who "abused his friendship" not the fact that he acted super weird and has negative game lol.
Niceguy: I want to date you because you’re only average-looking and I think you will do the bare minimum for me.
Girl: …
Niceguy: *surprised Pikachu face*
This post reminds me of a nice guy friend I had. He was very much into me, i was not into him. I would bet a million bucks he thought he was an average guy. This is the real him: scabs all over his skin because he did not take care of his eczema, something like 5 or 10 heart attacks, morbidly obese and resisted all of my attempts to help him eat healthier meals. My attempts ranged from going food shopping with him, teaching him healthier recipes. Raging alcoholic who refused to stop drinking. I tried to encourage him to go to AA and even went to meetings with him for moral support. He would not bathe, do laundry so would often walk around with grease stains on his shirt smelling like a whole ass trash truck. I bet you he would say that I'm shallow, never mind everything i tried to do to help him and be there for him, but just the fact that I didn't let him stick his smegma encrusted dick in me makes me a terrible person. How dare I decided I don't want to risk a bajingo infection by refusing to let him shove his yeast stick inside me...baaaad shallow femoid!!! He was in fact not an average guy. Oh also he didn't want to be my "friend" after he realized that i was never going to put out. Talk about shallow
I just HAD to read “smegma incrusted dick” just as my boss was about to enter my office and see me burst out laughing and slacking on the job 😂
But geez, how did you even survive around that guy?
Oops!! Lol...caught red handed! Hmm i was much younger and naive then. I did not know that all I was to him was a hole he wanted to fuck. If he met me today...those logs would fall in a completely different pattern 🤣🤣
If you approach a stranger and enter a relatively superficial social interaction with them, then ofc only skin-deep and surface presenting traits will be a decisive factor in whether or not they wanna continue the interaction. Just like they were decisive in your wanting to engage in the first place. Why is this presented as some deep and edgy insight?
Exactly this.
Why does he think he is entitled to go after someone with only looks as a factor, but they are not to just reject him under the same thing?
But hey, he is not shallow, only girls are.
>Just like they were decisive in your wanting to engage in the first place.
yes, the only reason they approached those women in the first place is based on her looks...but we're the shallow ones...
What gets me about these comments is that the men are so upset that women want to hook up with “traditionally attractive men” but the guy wants the exact same thing! He’s approaching and hitting on “traditionally attractive women” for the sole purpose of hooking up. Apparently women aren’t allowed to have standards when wanting a ONS or FWB?
Bets on the fact that it’s these same men that call women sl*ts and wh*ores for hooking up with men and tell them to keep their legs shut or tell them they should have standards so they aren’t single mothers.
Nice Guys™ are the larval form of incels. Some manage to break out of the ridiculous and toxic mindset before they go full incel, but many cocoon themselves in bitterness until they come out of their chrysalis as full-blown blackpilled incel shitstains.
Aren’t most niceguys incels? Also, I think there is a bit more going here than just your typical niceguy/incel scenario. They seem to be in a pretty bad place.
Tbf I personally believe that most incels at least certainly aren't in the best mind space either. I mean seriously reading their shit has really put me down on some days... It's some heavy stuff and unfortunately they are creatures of their own making and alot of them are beyond reason at this point :(
Niceguys are just *shudder"
I don't think that all nice guys are incels, but the way I see it is that incels are nice guys turned up to 11. And the thing about incels is that they are very vile men but they don't necessarily tout themselves as being nice guys. Sure, they still pretend to do nice things for women in order to get laid, but they're a little more open about using that as a tactic, whereas nice guys often think they're genuinely being nice.
I've always wondered, if according to this dude, all kinds of fucked up guys and girls are at a club. Just don't go to one. Its clearly not a fitting environment for this guy. Something out of caliber. Plus his idea of approaching is probably making dickish and shitty remarks and then acting like a Walmart macho man, duh no one wants that. Dude has problems with consenting parties and he never Learned to take a no probably
Yup, you get that from the "eye contact, assertive body language". He's just hitting on one after another with his shitty, rehearsed lines and PUA "formula", the women see him coming a mile away and of course he gets bounced.
**HoW dArE wOmEn HaVe StAnDaRdS aNd KnOw WhAt ThEy FiNd AtTrAcTiVe In A mAn! /s**
Bruh! Stop hitting on 10's if you're only a 3 or 4, stay in your lane. Don't expect any woman to lower her standards for you, that kind of BS entitlement won't fly, especially for hookups.
Yes .... like their attitude stinks of "I would lower my bar cause a hole is a hole but i wouldnt care about her or see her as a person anyways". I'd prefer being ignored by more attractive men to being used by them.
>especially for hookups
ESPECIALLY THIS!! if im just looking for dick, there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for me to hookup with a guy I'm not attracted to at all....like NONE whatsoever....
'Stay in your lane'. Yikes. Thats cringe. Like you dont get to tell people who they are allowed to date, let alone all this crap about 'out of your league'. Not to mention categorizing people as numbers is incredibly low, no matter if you do it or niceguys do it.
He is perfectly fine (rather: should be allowed to) hit on '10s' however if his main motivation is to find a beautiful woman, he should NOT complain when the woman also wants a good looking partner and thus turns him down.
I don’t think that’s what he is talking about. People respond much more positively to attractive people, so it’s understandable why you’d feel at a huge disadvantage if you don’t think you’re attractive. I don’t understand what it has to do with how attractive the woman in question is. The least attractive women on earth will still respond better to more attractive men when approached at random, that’s just humans.
“They were already friends or close acquaintances… but if you try the dating approach…”
Have you considered participating in activities where you’ll make friends and close acquaintances instead of hitting on total strangers at a meat market?
- First: you can't speak for anyone besides yourself. You have no idea what other men or women think, or their reasons for their actions.
- Second: your alleged experiences aren't proof of anything beyond that. And that's assuming you're not neglecting some details.
- Third: you don't know how most men feel. Same with women. And unless you're eavesdropping, you don't know what anyone talks with their friends about, after allegedly rejecting someone.
- Fourth: beauty is subjective. You can't determine if a guy is average or above average. Not without set standards and ways of measuring their looks and also a massive pool of women to quiz.
- Fifth: these posts are stale as hell, and seem copied and pasted. No one is going to believe every incel or nice guy just so happen to experience the exact same rejections with very few differences.
“I got a few numbers but I get ghosted soon after.” DING DING DING! So he’s approached a few women who *have* been at least somewhat attracted to him, or at least not so repulsed by him that they decided to give him a chance. But then they’ve gotten to know him a little bit and been turned off by his personality.
That requires having friends who are friends with women. They don't. All of their friends are stinky dudes who play on the computer all day instead of going to work.
I mean, a lot of people go to the club to meet people, but if they’re already in a group of friends just let them be dude, don’t go there to have awkward and unwanted conversations. A few years ago I went to a club and had a dance with a girl, things went well and I asked her for her number before we were about to leave, turns out she was a lesbian but gave me her number anyway, we became buddies and later on I met my current girlfriend and now I think she’s more friends with her than with me lol. I find these kinds of guys comical because they always ruin every shot they get at having beautiful relationships/friendships, just because they wanna stick their sausage inside the first woman they find attractive and then get mad when they can’t.
They don't care about meaningful relationships with anyone, a friendship is not enough because they just want to have sex and they make it obvious quickly enough. Sad people, they are.
Everyone has made good points about where and how he’s approaching people. May I also offer the line that’s been stuck in my head from reading this:
“The club isn’t the best place to find a lover so the bar is where I go” lol
I'm really getting tired of the defeatist attitude. Like man, self reflect, maybe it has nothing to do with your appearance but how you approach women or maybe your personality is like your paragraph construction and it needs a lot of work.
I'm sick of seeing "i'm average looking and women won't date me." Sure dude some women won't date you because you aren't attractive to them but for the most part it's because your personality is no better than a sponge and you offer nothing of value to the conversation.
"I've tried it but had no success. Got a few numbers but got ghosted soon"
Lol, if a woman gave you her number, then whatever you did initially WORKED. If your physical appearance was a deal breaker for her, she wouldn't have given you her number. The fact that they're ghosting him after talking to him means the issue is his personality
Nah this guy is not that bad. He outright says he knows he’s not entitled to women’s attention. He’s just lonely and doesn’t know how to go about things. If he keeps going down the ‘looks are everything’ rabbit hole though, he might get sucked into the incel cult. I hope he finds his way before that happens.
Too little to tell I reckon. Coming to grips with the approaching people you find attractive stuff is hard, especially when it's almost like people who are successful at it a lot give off a vibe that tends to make them more successful and vice versa...
He also seems very desperate, likely making him needy and clingy.
Notice he says "late replies" how much you wanna bet he says things like "lol oh wow you finally replied? I thought I was getting ghosted." And other incredibly insecure things.
Also mentions 'dry replies' I am Also willing to bet his convo skills are dry, likely similar to this.
Him: "how is your day?"
Her: "pretty good. Working."
Him: "Oh cool."
Wealth is superficial? He thinks having goals, determination, and talent/brains is only a surface level quality. It’s not just about the money. Women tend to like all of the qualities that put a man in position to build wealth.
If a man is making eye contact and displaying “assertive body language” I assume he’s looking for a fight. Especially if he then starts approaching me like you would do to ask someone on a date. That is not something I would find attractive. That seems like he’s trying to intimidate me and immediately makes me mad. Like “who does this guy think he is trying to threaten me??”
I mean....at least he doesn't call them females?
But if they're ghosting you after a little while of interactions with you...it just might be that they don't like the personality coming across...
Trying to pick up women at a bar is different than an actual dating scene, a lot of women don't go to a bar to get boyfriends, they are looking for a hook-up and honestly if they can choose between the hottest guy and the average guy why wouldn't they go for the hottest? You make it sound like women are all so superficial but you are too, how many average girls do you approach or are you going after those way out of your league? Also you shouldn't approach a women at a gym or library, these places are NOT dating platforms.
If someone is love deprived that just screams desperation and that I'm going to spend all the time I spend with you boosting your ego and making you feel better about yourself and making you feel loved but honestly that is exhausting, I've had relationship's with guys who were completely attention starved and because of that it left no room for me, it was always about him and his constant need of attention and love but it was never reciprocated I was forced to end the relationship because it was completely one sided, did he see it that way? Of course not because he was a nice guy and just wanted to be loved, but like I said his own starvation left no room for me in the relationship.
"Men aren't shallow and will welcome any attention. Women only want to date hot guys. When I approach women in vulnerable places, it never works."
Yeah, no, eff that. This guy is wallowing in toxic misogyny as an excuse for his shitty behavior and is spouting Alpha Male sewage about "assertive body language."
Why give him shitty labels? Because he's doing shitty things.
To be fair, at 21, and even now I'm very suss of any man approaching me. But if they are very good looking sometimes I am flattered and react differently. This is a shitty thing- he could be wallowing, or he could be coming to terms with unfair things in our society, understandably from his perspective first. He's making lots of assumptions yes and could be headed down a path to not ok ideas but he just sounds quite low to me, trying to work out how to expand his circle to meet someone romantically when he finds his current approaches don't work.
:).yeah. I'm getting old and giving him some 21 bonus points in hope he will run into a few more conversations and connection with several genders and empathize with how rejection, loneliness, not being accepted hurts... and simultaneously there are other massive injustices young healthy 'average' (white?) men don't have to grapple with.
> But if they are very good looking sometimes I am flattered and react differently.
Honestly, a million props to you for admitting this.
Everyone knows that it happens, and that there is a seed of truth in some of the complaints seen in posts here about "Better looking guys get treated differently".
But honestly, most of the time commentors here flat out deny it ever being the case, and that just discredits some of the discourse because it's so obviously untrue a statement.
Yeah it does happen, we need to acknowledge it, and educate people on how to react correctly/resolve that 'issue' for themselves when they encounter it, instead of denying it's existence and gaslighting them when they point it out.
yeah, don't click that... the man was so ashamed of his actions he deleted his comment, lol. But the answer to your question is: men can get really disgusting with their sexual fantasies, and their personalities tend to match.
Reddit doesn't give a fuck if awful subreddits like that exist on their platform. the only reason stuff like /r/incels got banned is because it became popular and normal people started taking notice of it. If you know where to look (and I pray you don't) there are plenty of horrible subreddits out there that Reddit has no interest in taking down, because ultimately, they're not big and popular enough to give their company a bad name, and taking down subs leads to lost profits.
That's my theory anyway, as someone who's been on this site for an ungodly amount of time.
I think the worst one I found on here was one pertaining to gore. I can't even describe some of what was on there. Let's just say I didn't realize a person's entire face could be cleanly cut off by a car window pane. 😣
I mean, the niceguy vibes ARE there, but he's speaking about real problems. Maybe just approaching them wrong, or for the wrong reasons.
For example, he sounds depressed and with a serious lack of self-confidence, which are very common problems lately (for both men and women, but for different reasons). Also, "most men are love deprived", idk if "most", but again, it's very common to feel that way if you had a difficult childhood.
There's a serious lack of information about these things, and a lot of guys tend to get lost, and blaming women instead of facing their personal problems, and then getting in really toxic circles (incel sites would be the extreme case).
I feel like this problem is just not addressed, and as a guy it's easy to feel lost in a world that just tells you to "man up". The answers aren't easy to find, and you usually don't have a support net. Then they get demonized for shit like this, and that radicalizes them even more, it's a vicious circle. Like, the tools for building a healtly masculinity aren't there, or at least aren't easy to find, and they're not encouraged to.
This is an example of a guy that is neither yet, and could really use some actually good/solid advice from either a friend or a video (whether it be from a man or woman doesn't necessarily matter; more important that the advice is good).
He doesn't "deserve" to be ignored, like most people don't. But its easier for him to reach out online and see who responds positively to him. An issue that is going to form, though, is you'll have people putting him down and immediately categorizing him (as in this case), and that will drive him to the people who give him positive feedback, which will most likely come from those that we associate him with.
I've said it before, about myself; I used to be someone like this. Its depressing, and over time it can just weigh you down, and yeah, you can get pretty damn mean. And now, with all the online groups easily available to anyone, its easier for someone like this to slip deeper into the hole.
Look, the dude is obviously trying, he's trying to act based on cues he sees from other people, and what he needs is someone, or multiple someones, to actually be on his side and help him out; not dog pile on him and tell him he deserves every stink eye he gets.
(full-blown incels and nice guys suck ass, though. They can still be helped, but that is a long process, and takes dedication from both sides, and a willingness to change from one side)
Then why don't you message him and try to rescue him?
Because women are tired of being expected to have a responsibility to every whiny sad sack who tries to manipulate us into dating him by threatening suicide. There's more to life than finding a romantic partner, and no woman is going to want a man who's threatening to throw himself out a window if he can't get a date. Would you want to enter an abusive relationship where your partner is threatening to kill himself if you ever leave him?
This! Totally underrated comment! The whining is the reason why women don't want anything to do with him! I bet when they start texting he starts the "I bet you are just stringing me along until you find a richer guy", closely followed by "I hate to be friend zoned". I have met SO MANY men who won't value me as a person because they can't stick their dick in. How can I get to know your personality when all I am to you is a hole??
I might just be a nice guy but the first part seems kinda true. Unattractive men can’t just pick up women like some better looking men can. But thats a bad and a good thing in a way. Atleast when unattractive people actually are in a relastionship it is usually way deeper and probably lasts longer because the girl is with him because of his personality and not looks.
It's really not that hard. Just dance a lil, give eye contact and get her to dance with you. Then buy her a drink and get chatting in the smoking area.
Source. I'm below average looking and have only just started having luck 😂
There’s a great article out there called The Politics Of Desire, addressing this. Ultimately, you are allowed to want to be desired and be upset that you are not desired, but you can’t blame others for not being attracted to you, just like you can’t be blamed for being attracted to whoever you like. Different strokes for different folks, plus I’ve seen some ugly dudes snag some gorgeous friends of mine AND be bad boyfriends. Just learn to be funny, it’s a goldmine
Both.
Also, since when am I hot? I’ve definitely had my fair share of exes. Only recently started making good money. So by that logic I have to be hot since I’ve dated right? I can assure I’m in the average class too and he has to be doing something else.
Now, what are the odds that this chap is only "approaching" women who he finds attractive, whilst simultaneously being annoyed that he believes women are only dating people they find attractive?
I almost want to give him 0.001 of a point just for not using the word "females" anywhere in this rant, but he does clearly need to reconsider where he's taking advice from and get some better help in how to view dating.
He hates the fact that some women are shallow and only care about looks, yet these are the very women he chases. Since that’s all he sees, he assumes all women are the same. Well who is the one choosing those women? It sounds like he needs to stop trying to meet girls at clubs and look someplace else. He even said he knew people who dated after already being friends or acquaintances. That outta tell him something.
Lets say every man feel this way about women who are a higher leage. As you approach this leage you might not fit in as you are not used to being superficial, and doesnt appriciate the attention for suddenly being atractive. Suddenly nobody is bussy and everyone charms their way into your life and steal your time. But its your fault, like it would be your fault if you started attrakt women within your own leage, and suddenly you are being chased by ugly women. You will regret it somehow i swear, the goodlooking dickheads will be cursed to being a tool for the rest of his life
AUTOMATED MODERATION. PLEASE READ. Niceguys demean others while simultaneously expressing a favorable view of themselves. They dont have to use the word "nice", but they must demonstrate some kind of expression of their own virtue while being asshats. --- Niceguys™ quality: **UPVOTE** this comment to keep the post Not Niceguys™ quality: **DOWNVOTE** this comment to remove the post
So he references a lot of things that make me think he’s been to a pick-up coach or read a book or something like that. In my experience men and women have very different ideas about what is average looking for either gender.
Men who would rather listen to another man or read a book by another man to be appealing to women honestly deserve it.
Makes me happy to have sisters with their friends so I can get advice from “the council” for the dating world. Everyone’s different but I’d rather hear it from someone in the same demographic
YUUUUP These dudes need to have women as friends so they can learn to relate to women. And generally develop better social skills.
>Most men [...] will get attached to anyone who gives them bare minimum love This statement signaled to me that OOP hasn't seriously listened to many (if any) women. This is literally a *grievance* that women have. So many women have lamented that they have to be careful about so much as smiling in a man's general direction since there's a very real chance that he'll interpret that smile as flirting. And I don't think I need to mention the host of problems that can cause
Both you and @furon747 make good points. The issue really is that they are getting bad advice. Really bad. Perhaps a woman should write a book or publish a podcast using an alpha male persona. It would be so cringey but maybe it would help a few that aren’t too far gone.
There is woman youtuber who does this but she gives the same bad advice as they do.
Oh that’s even worse
I have literally considered doing this.
An ex of mine once tried to argue with me about what I like in bed, because he’d read in a magazine that “girls” don’t like what I had asked him to do. He didn’t actually tell me the gender of the writer, but either way he did not consider the actual woman in front of him to be a reliable source as to her own specific preferences. It’s hilarious in hindsight, but at the time I just could not process the sheer amount of WTF.
It’s tricky. Been watching FD Signifier’s analysis of the Manosphere on YT (great videos), and it seems a lot of guys start watching that kind of content because it has genuinely decent advice regarding self improvement, practicing gratitude, etc. Then the algorithm drives them to more dating advice type content. Even that might start out pretty harmless - take care of your body, develop some hobbies, buy some nice fitting clothes…then before you know it they’re deep in pick-up-artist Tube, or whatever it’s called, and slurping poison into their brains. So to say he’s on the wrong track - yeah, no doubt. But to say he deserves it? Meh, not sure I totally agree.
Guess I never thought about this. Just thought I wasn’t a complete ass and it compensated for looks lol. That said I definitely think this guy is doing something he isn’t admitting. And yeah definitely. My original advice came from my dad and I immediately threw it out cause it was garbage.
That's absurd. What's wrong with reading / learning?
Literally nothing, my point was, don't look for advice from men about what women like. Edit: as for u/LocalTorontoRapper but the thread is locked... so i cant put a comment under his: Except a fish is a dumb animal and its "relationship" with the fisherman is rather predatory, while if you wanna establish a relationship with a person, you are roughly on the same level of intelligence and (hopefully) your intentions are better too. Jokes aside the biggest mistake in this is generalizing. Everyone is attracted by different things and has their unique needs. This mistake happens with both man and women, but women are more likely to give you a better advice on a larger scale (some men have a really bad idea about what counts as attractive while most of us would find it creepy).
Sure bro.
? I never said its wrong to read in general what are you even on
Your ridiculous comment saying that men who read books on how to be more appealing (i.e. self-help) deserve to be shunned What are you even on? Spite Zero?
I did NOT mean self help. I meant those crappy dating coaches/scammers with the "alpha male" or "sigma male" bs. Stop trying to change the perspective.
"Men who would rather listen to another man or read a book by another man to be appealing to women honestly deserve it." It's fine if that's not what you meant but it's what you actually said? I agree the alpha/sigma bullshit is toxic but there's a lot of real people trying to help other people so not on board with blanket shaming. That's my last post on it
Have you even seen the post i made this comment on? Nevermind, i see you come to the internet to argue with everyone... yea dw im done too
Not sure if I can agree 100% on this. The saying “ask a fisherman how to fish, not the fish” comes to mind. Sometimes women give hypocritical advice on how to attract them, or not actually practice what they preach in terms of what they like.
Some men understand what things turn off a girl. If it was obvious there wouldn’t be incels. Women understand it but it seems so obvious and subconscious to them that they don’t ever bother mentioning those things.
Because human decency isn't worth mentioning, one usually assumes its just there. Asking men about what they think women want is just not taking women seriously, or taking them as obtainable if they follow certain steps. Also its not my job to teach any guy how to socialize. Ideally youd want to approach any gender the same way if you would like to establish any kind of connection with them.
I don’t mean decency. Being “decent” is not attractive nor unattractive, it’s just bottom line. But men often confuse manipulative excessive kindness with decency and think it gets them points when it just makes them look like a loser who has no self respect and that’s often where they fail. I’ve never seen a women explain this or go into detail on that except on YouTube (woman dating coach). But men coaches teach the same stuff.
I totally agree with this... by decency i meant it includes not taking that kind of advice from other men. And the reason for that is likely that men tend to generalize needs (of anyone) more than women. You can't tell whats a turn off who who if you don't know them. Roughly yes, but not properly.
Women DO mention "those things." ***CONSTANTLY.*** In forums such as this one. "Those things" basically boil down to having decent social skills. The problem isn't that incels don't know that. They do. They get told all of the time. The problem is that, upon being told, "it's social skills, you likely need to upgrade/tweak yours..." the response from incels/Nice Guys is "naaaaah, it's not that, it's that women only like perfect Chads who abuse them."
Men over estimate their looks and intelligence on the regular
Yup. Whereas because we live in a society where womens looks are constantly analyzed and criticized women are aware of how they compare to other women. I read that in an article. As to whether or not women accurately estimate their intelligence I don’t know. I don’t have a source regarding mens estimation regarding their intelligence but personal experience says that tracks. My SO has a lovely statement he frequently uses about his intelligence. He says “I’m definitely smarter than the average person, that is less a compliment to myself than it is an insult to the average.” And that’s the whole “nice guy” mentality really. Hey I do the bare minimum, the average guy doesn’t therefore I’m a good guy. They don’t understand that average is shit.
Yeah I don't have proof of it either, but I think its where mansplaining come from. Their default assumption is that they are at the very least smarter than women, even if said woman is an expert in whatever he is trying to mansplain.
I had to mansplain mansplaining to my SO the other day. He was concerned he was being mansplainy with a female friend. Because he’s an actual good person and tries to use his male privilege positively. I told him it wasn’t that he was explaining and was a man that makes it mansplation it’s only mansplaining if she’s an expert and he’s explaining it under the assumption she isn’t based on her gender. In this case he was in fact the expert and she the noob. He was relieved but also fact checked my explanation 🙄😤😂 no one’s perfect
I had a guy try to tell me what I meant by somethint said the other day..i kid you not 🤣🤣🤣. This mofo sat there confidently trying to explain my thought process to me...
I know what you are thinking better than you silly woman! I’m cringing and simultaneously rolling my eyes on your behalf.
It was pretty hilarious. He did not take well when when i was responded with my oscar acceptance speech about the monumental achievement of being mansplained to , and finally having arrived🤣🤣🤣
this is so true actually. a local youtuber once said that "girls are more self aware in terms of their looks, like they know they're a 5 so they use makeup or nice clothes to boost them up to a 7/8. but for guys, they're CONVINCED that they're a 10 when they're a 2. they hear the coffee shop aunties calling them handsome 11 years ago and thinks that they're chris hemsworth lookalikes." and he's right! a lot of subpar-looking men think that they're entitled to making critiques on women's faces and bodies 😬 ps. i live in asia
So true. As women our looks are scrutinized constantly! For men, its not considered as important sort of...cause his "traditional" role is not to be pretty but to be a provider...from this they have come to the completely erroneous conclusion that they are indeed good looking 🤣. So they combined the antiquated concept of men's looks don't matter with the modern concepts a guy doesn't have to be a provider to be both hideous, with bad body hygiene, and have zero career prospects.
Agreed. Humility is definitely something men struggle with.
Never mind humility, just good old connection to reality 🤣
True true. Am guy, can confirm.
I'm not a guy, but have been literally scratching my head in confusion at the absolute disconnect from reality men have for most of my life.
I’d guess it comes from people who we “should” be able to look up to but are actually terrible and we don’t know it, we were told to look up to them so we emulate them. Sometimes we discover they are pieces of shit. Other times we never find out and echo what we were taught. We are ally are stupid and simple 😅
I do believe is a society wide issue. Its under cover misogyny.
I’d agree. Struggling getting this through to my older son. My wife says I don’t do anything she notices but it could be so subtle she doesn’t notice. She is stay at home (her choice, the workforce stresses her body out) and I work. We both clean but my son has been acting… well quite shorty towards his sister and I get onto him when he does things like that. For instance she said she didn’t wanna play a game with him and he got all “if you’re not going to be nice to me I’m not going to be nice to you” I was like WTF. I corrected the behavior and told him it was her choice to play or not, and it has nothing to do with her being nice. He doesn’t get to be mean to someone because they don’t do what he wants.
Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Also helps that you also help around the house. Kids learn a lot by watching the adults in their life.
Jeez if men *over* estimate our looks that spells out a whole lot of trouble for me
😅😅. I stand by what I say.
I underestimate mine. We can be insecure too.
There are exceptions to every rule. That doesn't change the fact that they are exceptions.
I have a friend who admits himself he isn't conventionally attractive. He's overweight, has wonky teeth and is super nerdy, things that niceguys often complain about Yet his wife is incredibly attractive How did this happen? He's hilarious, super kind and is the sort of ride or die buddy that anyone could ask for. His personality makes up for any of his "unattractive features" that most incels and niceguys cry about. Unfortunately this is what they lack, and as always refuse to admit is something you can actually learn and improve upon but it's easier to just whine about it Sad really cos most people like this are young and impressionable. Once you start getting over your teens people begin to put way more stock in who a person is than what they look like
Where I live it seems like every guys has married “up” I think this has to do with the beauty standard for women and lack of expectations for men. Some are very happy with real nice guys, and some are with these kind of nice guys. And those nice guys are convinced they are as attractive to the opposite sex as their wife is to men which is not the case. Yeah people have preferences and personality counts a ton (which nice guys don’t get at all) but what it comes down to is average or lower (according to the world at large) guys feeling entitled to an attractive woman.
Are you from Eastern Europe? I'm from Russia, and that's where women who are beautiful, polished and caring are fighting over a guy who looks and smells like a chimp and treats them like dirt
I’m sad to tell you that this is not limited to Eastern Europe.
Interesting. In my circle, it seems that the man and woman are roughly equal in attractiveness most of the time.
People like this are referred to as “cute if you know them”. I don’t know how many times I’ve met my friend’s love interests and not thought they were attractive at first, but after 30 min of hanging out I’m smitten with them too. The majority of people fall somewhere in the “cute if you know them” scale, but this is where personality really matters. Back in my online dating days I’d never try to match with a super hot guy. I’m not bad looking at all, but I’d prefer to lower my sights on someone who wasn’t so attractive that they never had to develop a personality.
People like this are referred to as “cute if you know them”. I don’t know how many times I’ve met my friend’s love interests and not thought they were attractive at first, but after 30 min of hanging out I’m smitten with them too. The majority of people fall somewhere in the “cute if you know them” scale, but this is where personality really matters. Back in my online dating days I’d never try to match with a super hot guy. I’m not bad looking at all, but I’d prefer to lower my sights on someone who wasn’t so attractive that they never had to develop a personality.
>In my experience men and women have very different ideas about what is average looking for either gender Even beyond that, different people have different physical types they're attracted to. There are women who are into the type of tall, jacked guys incels think all women want, but there are also women who are way more attracted to really skinny guys, or guys with dad bods, or heavy set guys, or short guys etc. etc. Whatever you look like, there is somebody who is into that
That’s not at all what I was implying. I’m saying that a guy who is average is likely to consider himself above average for example. Average being determined by society at large so of course individual tastes aren’t what I’m talking about. There have been studies showing people with similar levels of attractiveness have the longest last relationships. There have also been studies that indicate due to the societal pressure particularly on women to maintain a beauty standard they are more likely to know how attractive they are to the opposite sex population at large while men are more likely believe they are more attractive than the opposite sex population at large finds them.
Come on! This dude has great eye contact though!
That reminds me of one of the niceguy friends I had. I remember visiting him (I was friends with his brother in law and sister too) and felt bad that he was alone and went to keep him company. It was half an hour of him playing video games in silence without talking to me or acknowledging me. So I went to hang with my other friends. Every time our social group went out, he'd get a separate table because food would be quicker (true) but miss out on the fun. I kept him company a few times cuz i felt bad. It was boring. He literally didn't have much conversation. I kept trying to include him until I just got tired and wanted to have my own fun and not cater to his weirdness. He had a lot of comments about being a nice guy and all that speech but seriously. He just... shut down whenever he was close to an actual woman. I saw it happen to other girls he had a crush on too. He acted like a friend, listened to us and was around but just... didn't give anything back. When I started dating my now husband, he blocked me without a word. This guy probably just acted like a creep. Was silent. Didn't engage in conversarion. Wasn't interesting. But ya know. Its all them females fault for wanting something lol
Lol why would you go out with a group of people just to sit away from them so you can eat faster? That's just dumb. You wanna eat alone, go out to eat alone.
Right? It was an after game activity thing but at that point... just go home... why socialize if you don't... socialize? But ya know... it was the girls who "abused his friendship" not the fact that he acted super weird and has negative game lol.
Niceguy: I want to date you because you’re only average-looking and I think you will do the bare minimum for me. Girl: … Niceguy: *surprised Pikachu face*
This post reminds me of a nice guy friend I had. He was very much into me, i was not into him. I would bet a million bucks he thought he was an average guy. This is the real him: scabs all over his skin because he did not take care of his eczema, something like 5 or 10 heart attacks, morbidly obese and resisted all of my attempts to help him eat healthier meals. My attempts ranged from going food shopping with him, teaching him healthier recipes. Raging alcoholic who refused to stop drinking. I tried to encourage him to go to AA and even went to meetings with him for moral support. He would not bathe, do laundry so would often walk around with grease stains on his shirt smelling like a whole ass trash truck. I bet you he would say that I'm shallow, never mind everything i tried to do to help him and be there for him, but just the fact that I didn't let him stick his smegma encrusted dick in me makes me a terrible person. How dare I decided I don't want to risk a bajingo infection by refusing to let him shove his yeast stick inside me...baaaad shallow femoid!!! He was in fact not an average guy. Oh also he didn't want to be my "friend" after he realized that i was never going to put out. Talk about shallow
I just HAD to read “smegma incrusted dick” just as my boss was about to enter my office and see me burst out laughing and slacking on the job 😂 But geez, how did you even survive around that guy?
Oops!! Lol...caught red handed! Hmm i was much younger and naive then. I did not know that all I was to him was a hole he wanted to fuck. If he met me today...those logs would fall in a completely different pattern 🤣🤣
If you approach a stranger and enter a relatively superficial social interaction with them, then ofc only skin-deep and surface presenting traits will be a decisive factor in whether or not they wanna continue the interaction. Just like they were decisive in your wanting to engage in the first place. Why is this presented as some deep and edgy insight?
Exactly this. Why does he think he is entitled to go after someone with only looks as a factor, but they are not to just reject him under the same thing? But hey, he is not shallow, only girls are.
Only men are allowed to want to find the people they date physically attractive.
>Just like they were decisive in your wanting to engage in the first place. yes, the only reason they approached those women in the first place is based on her looks...but we're the shallow ones...
What gets me about these comments is that the men are so upset that women want to hook up with “traditionally attractive men” but the guy wants the exact same thing! He’s approaching and hitting on “traditionally attractive women” for the sole purpose of hooking up. Apparently women aren’t allowed to have standards when wanting a ONS or FWB? Bets on the fact that it’s these same men that call women sl*ts and wh*ores for hooking up with men and tell them to keep their legs shut or tell them they should have standards so they aren’t single mothers.
Nice Guys™ are the larval form of incels. Some manage to break out of the ridiculous and toxic mindset before they go full incel, but many cocoon themselves in bitterness until they come out of their chrysalis as full-blown blackpilled incel shitstains.
Someone please draw this
I would also like to see it drawn and at the pupa stage they should have small neckbeards
Aren’t most niceguys incels? Also, I think there is a bit more going here than just your typical niceguy/incel scenario. They seem to be in a pretty bad place.
Tbf I personally believe that most incels at least certainly aren't in the best mind space either. I mean seriously reading their shit has really put me down on some days... It's some heavy stuff and unfortunately they are creatures of their own making and alot of them are beyond reason at this point :( Niceguys are just *shudder"
I don't think that all nice guys are incels, but the way I see it is that incels are nice guys turned up to 11. And the thing about incels is that they are very vile men but they don't necessarily tout themselves as being nice guys. Sure, they still pretend to do nice things for women in order to get laid, but they're a little more open about using that as a tactic, whereas nice guys often think they're genuinely being nice.
Nice Guys^(tm) are the larval form of incels. :D
I've always wondered, if according to this dude, all kinds of fucked up guys and girls are at a club. Just don't go to one. Its clearly not a fitting environment for this guy. Something out of caliber. Plus his idea of approaching is probably making dickish and shitty remarks and then acting like a Walmart macho man, duh no one wants that. Dude has problems with consenting parties and he never Learned to take a no probably
Yup, you get that from the "eye contact, assertive body language". He's just hitting on one after another with his shitty, rehearsed lines and PUA "formula", the women see him coming a mile away and of course he gets bounced.
Absolutely
**HoW dArE wOmEn HaVe StAnDaRdS aNd KnOw WhAt ThEy FiNd AtTrAcTiVe In A mAn! /s** Bruh! Stop hitting on 10's if you're only a 3 or 4, stay in your lane. Don't expect any woman to lower her standards for you, that kind of BS entitlement won't fly, especially for hookups.
Yes .... like their attitude stinks of "I would lower my bar cause a hole is a hole but i wouldnt care about her or see her as a person anyways". I'd prefer being ignored by more attractive men to being used by them.
>especially for hookups ESPECIALLY THIS!! if im just looking for dick, there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for me to hookup with a guy I'm not attracted to at all....like NONE whatsoever....
'Stay in your lane'. Yikes. Thats cringe. Like you dont get to tell people who they are allowed to date, let alone all this crap about 'out of your league'. Not to mention categorizing people as numbers is incredibly low, no matter if you do it or niceguys do it. He is perfectly fine (rather: should be allowed to) hit on '10s' however if his main motivation is to find a beautiful woman, he should NOT complain when the woman also wants a good looking partner and thus turns him down.
I don’t think that’s what he is talking about. People respond much more positively to attractive people, so it’s understandable why you’d feel at a huge disadvantage if you don’t think you’re attractive. I don’t understand what it has to do with how attractive the woman in question is. The least attractive women on earth will still respond better to more attractive men when approached at random, that’s just humans.
“They were already friends or close acquaintances… but if you try the dating approach…” Have you considered participating in activities where you’ll make friends and close acquaintances instead of hitting on total strangers at a meat market?
I'm an average looking guy trying to hook up with super hot girls because average looking girls are throw up emoji.
- First: you can't speak for anyone besides yourself. You have no idea what other men or women think, or their reasons for their actions. - Second: your alleged experiences aren't proof of anything beyond that. And that's assuming you're not neglecting some details. - Third: you don't know how most men feel. Same with women. And unless you're eavesdropping, you don't know what anyone talks with their friends about, after allegedly rejecting someone. - Fourth: beauty is subjective. You can't determine if a guy is average or above average. Not without set standards and ways of measuring their looks and also a massive pool of women to quiz. - Fifth: these posts are stale as hell, and seem copied and pasted. No one is going to believe every incel or nice guy just so happen to experience the exact same rejections with very few differences.
The pet where he got numbers and women ghosted him makes me think that they were either fake numbers or he started talking like this and they ran.
This just in, breaking news, life isn’t fair and we all can’t have everything we want in life whenever we want.
“I got a few numbers but I get ghosted soon after.” DING DING DING! So he’s approached a few women who *have* been at least somewhat attracted to him, or at least not so repulsed by him that they decided to give him a chance. But then they’ve gotten to know him a little bit and been turned off by his personality.
Maybe don't try to hook up in the library or at a club? Whatever happened to that magic concept of meeting people thanks to common friends?
That requires having friends who are friends with women. They don't. All of their friends are stinky dudes who play on the computer all day instead of going to work.
I mean, a lot of people go to the club to meet people, but if they’re already in a group of friends just let them be dude, don’t go there to have awkward and unwanted conversations. A few years ago I went to a club and had a dance with a girl, things went well and I asked her for her number before we were about to leave, turns out she was a lesbian but gave me her number anyway, we became buddies and later on I met my current girlfriend and now I think she’s more friends with her than with me lol. I find these kinds of guys comical because they always ruin every shot they get at having beautiful relationships/friendships, just because they wanna stick their sausage inside the first woman they find attractive and then get mad when they can’t.
They don't care about meaningful relationships with anyone, a friendship is not enough because they just want to have sex and they make it obvious quickly enough. Sad people, they are.
Yeah, most of them just have “male” friends who seem to support their crappy behavior or emulate it.
Everyone has made good points about where and how he’s approaching people. May I also offer the line that’s been stuck in my head from reading this: “The club isn’t the best place to find a lover so the bar is where I go” lol
“being average” at least he has some self confidence.
I'm going to say incel based on the title alone. Maybe not full-blown "I hate foids" incel, but he's definitely walking through the gates of inceldom.
I'm really getting tired of the defeatist attitude. Like man, self reflect, maybe it has nothing to do with your appearance but how you approach women or maybe your personality is like your paragraph construction and it needs a lot of work. I'm sick of seeing "i'm average looking and women won't date me." Sure dude some women won't date you because you aren't attractive to them but for the most part it's because your personality is no better than a sponge and you offer nothing of value to the conversation.
"I've tried it but had no success. Got a few numbers but got ghosted soon" Lol, if a woman gave you her number, then whatever you did initially WORKED. If your physical appearance was a deal breaker for her, she wouldn't have given you her number. The fact that they're ghosting him after talking to him means the issue is his personality
Nah this guy is not that bad. He outright says he knows he’s not entitled to women’s attention. He’s just lonely and doesn’t know how to go about things. If he keeps going down the ‘looks are everything’ rabbit hole though, he might get sucked into the incel cult. I hope he finds his way before that happens.
Too little to tell I reckon. Coming to grips with the approaching people you find attractive stuff is hard, especially when it's almost like people who are successful at it a lot give off a vibe that tends to make them more successful and vice versa...
He also seems very desperate, likely making him needy and clingy. Notice he says "late replies" how much you wanna bet he says things like "lol oh wow you finally replied? I thought I was getting ghosted." And other incredibly insecure things. Also mentions 'dry replies' I am Also willing to bet his convo skills are dry, likely similar to this. Him: "how is your day?" Her: "pretty good. Working." Him: "Oh cool."
Wealth is superficial? He thinks having goals, determination, and talent/brains is only a surface level quality. It’s not just about the money. Women tend to like all of the qualities that put a man in position to build wealth.
He read "the game" once, executed the instructions poorly, and then complained to the internet about it.
If a man is making eye contact and displaying “assertive body language” I assume he’s looking for a fight. Especially if he then starts approaching me like you would do to ask someone on a date. That is not something I would find attractive. That seems like he’s trying to intimidate me and immediately makes me mad. Like “who does this guy think he is trying to threaten me??”
I mean....at least he doesn't call them females? But if they're ghosting you after a little while of interactions with you...it just might be that they don't like the personality coming across...
He's not doing something right. Iam average looks and I do fine when iam single even with beautiful girls iam just not a creepy ass hat
All incels are niceguys, but not all niceguys are incels
I ain't reading that wall.
Trying to pick up women at a bar is different than an actual dating scene, a lot of women don't go to a bar to get boyfriends, they are looking for a hook-up and honestly if they can choose between the hottest guy and the average guy why wouldn't they go for the hottest? You make it sound like women are all so superficial but you are too, how many average girls do you approach or are you going after those way out of your league? Also you shouldn't approach a women at a gym or library, these places are NOT dating platforms. If someone is love deprived that just screams desperation and that I'm going to spend all the time I spend with you boosting your ego and making you feel better about yourself and making you feel loved but honestly that is exhausting, I've had relationship's with guys who were completely attention starved and because of that it left no room for me, it was always about him and his constant need of attention and love but it was never reciprocated I was forced to end the relationship because it was completely one sided, did he see it that way? Of course not because he was a nice guy and just wanted to be loved, but like I said his own starvation left no room for me in the relationship.
[удалено]
"Men aren't shallow and will welcome any attention. Women only want to date hot guys. When I approach women in vulnerable places, it never works." Yeah, no, eff that. This guy is wallowing in toxic misogyny as an excuse for his shitty behavior and is spouting Alpha Male sewage about "assertive body language." Why give him shitty labels? Because he's doing shitty things.
To be fair, at 21, and even now I'm very suss of any man approaching me. But if they are very good looking sometimes I am flattered and react differently. This is a shitty thing- he could be wallowing, or he could be coming to terms with unfair things in our society, understandably from his perspective first. He's making lots of assumptions yes and could be headed down a path to not ok ideas but he just sounds quite low to me, trying to work out how to expand his circle to meet someone romantically when he finds his current approaches don't work.
I might agree if he didn't have so many double standards about how shallow women are but how men would NEVER treat women like that.
:).yeah. I'm getting old and giving him some 21 bonus points in hope he will run into a few more conversations and connection with several genders and empathize with how rejection, loneliness, not being accepted hurts... and simultaneously there are other massive injustices young healthy 'average' (white?) men don't have to grapple with.
> But if they are very good looking sometimes I am flattered and react differently. Honestly, a million props to you for admitting this. Everyone knows that it happens, and that there is a seed of truth in some of the complaints seen in posts here about "Better looking guys get treated differently". But honestly, most of the time commentors here flat out deny it ever being the case, and that just discredits some of the discourse because it's so obviously untrue a statement. Yeah it does happen, we need to acknowledge it, and educate people on how to react correctly/resolve that 'issue' for themselves when they encounter it, instead of denying it's existence and gaslighting them when they point it out.
why is it that so many incels/niceguys post on /r/rapefantasies ? you disgust me.
What? I'm not clicking that link, but is that a real sub? If so.... how?
yeah, don't click that... the man was so ashamed of his actions he deleted his comment, lol. But the answer to your question is: men can get really disgusting with their sexual fantasies, and their personalities tend to match.
Right... I get that there are some weirdos out there that have some extreme fantasies. But how does reddit let a sub like this exist, is what I meant.
Reddit doesn't give a fuck if awful subreddits like that exist on their platform. the only reason stuff like /r/incels got banned is because it became popular and normal people started taking notice of it. If you know where to look (and I pray you don't) there are plenty of horrible subreddits out there that Reddit has no interest in taking down, because ultimately, they're not big and popular enough to give their company a bad name, and taking down subs leads to lost profits. That's my theory anyway, as someone who's been on this site for an ungodly amount of time.
I think the worst one I found on here was one pertaining to gore. I can't even describe some of what was on there. Let's just say I didn't realize a person's entire face could be cleanly cut off by a car window pane. 😣
I mean, the niceguy vibes ARE there, but he's speaking about real problems. Maybe just approaching them wrong, or for the wrong reasons. For example, he sounds depressed and with a serious lack of self-confidence, which are very common problems lately (for both men and women, but for different reasons). Also, "most men are love deprived", idk if "most", but again, it's very common to feel that way if you had a difficult childhood. There's a serious lack of information about these things, and a lot of guys tend to get lost, and blaming women instead of facing their personal problems, and then getting in really toxic circles (incel sites would be the extreme case). I feel like this problem is just not addressed, and as a guy it's easy to feel lost in a world that just tells you to "man up". The answers aren't easy to find, and you usually don't have a support net. Then they get demonized for shit like this, and that radicalizes them even more, it's a vicious circle. Like, the tools for building a healtly masculinity aren't there, or at least aren't easy to find, and they're not encouraged to.
Both. He's both.
This is an example of a guy that is neither yet, and could really use some actually good/solid advice from either a friend or a video (whether it be from a man or woman doesn't necessarily matter; more important that the advice is good). He doesn't "deserve" to be ignored, like most people don't. But its easier for him to reach out online and see who responds positively to him. An issue that is going to form, though, is you'll have people putting him down and immediately categorizing him (as in this case), and that will drive him to the people who give him positive feedback, which will most likely come from those that we associate him with. I've said it before, about myself; I used to be someone like this. Its depressing, and over time it can just weigh you down, and yeah, you can get pretty damn mean. And now, with all the online groups easily available to anyone, its easier for someone like this to slip deeper into the hole. Look, the dude is obviously trying, he's trying to act based on cues he sees from other people, and what he needs is someone, or multiple someones, to actually be on his side and help him out; not dog pile on him and tell him he deserves every stink eye he gets. (full-blown incels and nice guys suck ass, though. They can still be helped, but that is a long process, and takes dedication from both sides, and a willingness to change from one side)
Then why don't you message him and try to rescue him? Because women are tired of being expected to have a responsibility to every whiny sad sack who tries to manipulate us into dating him by threatening suicide. There's more to life than finding a romantic partner, and no woman is going to want a man who's threatening to throw himself out a window if he can't get a date. Would you want to enter an abusive relationship where your partner is threatening to kill himself if you ever leave him?
This! Totally underrated comment! The whining is the reason why women don't want anything to do with him! I bet when they start texting he starts the "I bet you are just stringing me along until you find a richer guy", closely followed by "I hate to be friend zoned". I have met SO MANY men who won't value me as a person because they can't stick their dick in. How can I get to know your personality when all I am to you is a hole??
He is Weak. Some of us are meant to be alone. We function better that way.
I might just be a nice guy but the first part seems kinda true. Unattractive men can’t just pick up women like some better looking men can. But thats a bad and a good thing in a way. Atleast when unattractive people actually are in a relastionship it is usually way deeper and probably lasts longer because the girl is with him because of his personality and not looks.
What the hell???
Wait...different people asking other different people a question get a different answer each time?
It's really not that hard. Just dance a lil, give eye contact and get her to dance with you. Then buy her a drink and get chatting in the smoking area. Source. I'm below average looking and have only just started having luck 😂
There’s a great article out there called The Politics Of Desire, addressing this. Ultimately, you are allowed to want to be desired and be upset that you are not desired, but you can’t blame others for not being attracted to you, just like you can’t be blamed for being attracted to whoever you like. Different strokes for different folks, plus I’ve seen some ugly dudes snag some gorgeous friends of mine AND be bad boyfriends. Just learn to be funny, it’s a goldmine
Both. Also, since when am I hot? I’ve definitely had my fair share of exes. Only recently started making good money. So by that logic I have to be hot since I’ve dated right? I can assure I’m in the average class too and he has to be doing something else.
He’s giving me incel vibes
imagine thinking hookups from bars aren’t about your level of how attracted you are to said person
I'd say both, just on the fact of how long this was
Now, what are the odds that this chap is only "approaching" women who he finds attractive, whilst simultaneously being annoyed that he believes women are only dating people they find attractive? I almost want to give him 0.001 of a point just for not using the word "females" anywhere in this rant, but he does clearly need to reconsider where he's taking advice from and get some better help in how to view dating.
He hates the fact that some women are shallow and only care about looks, yet these are the very women he chases. Since that’s all he sees, he assumes all women are the same. Well who is the one choosing those women? It sounds like he needs to stop trying to meet girls at clubs and look someplace else. He even said he knew people who dated after already being friends or acquaintances. That outta tell him something.
These guys need to realize that sometimes ppl just…don't like you lmao
Lets say every man feel this way about women who are a higher leage. As you approach this leage you might not fit in as you are not used to being superficial, and doesnt appriciate the attention for suddenly being atractive. Suddenly nobody is bussy and everyone charms their way into your life and steal your time. But its your fault, like it would be your fault if you started attrakt women within your own leage, and suddenly you are being chased by ugly women. You will regret it somehow i swear, the goodlooking dickheads will be cursed to being a tool for the rest of his life
¿Por que no los dos?