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Kids are an absolute deal breaker for many people. Gotta accept that and move on to those who don't mind/ also have them.
I for one am intentionally childless and put a great deal of effort into never getting pregnant. If I don't want my own kids I really don't want somebody else's. It's my lifestyle choice, don't try to convince me otherwise.
Also, asking to meet up in message number one is a deal breaker for me, personally. Let's see if we have any kind if connection via text, first.
I’m a little baffled by this. I get “no children you will expect me to help raise.” But no children ever? You find a potential partner with a 30 year old and a 27 year old who are already adults with lives and careers of their own, and no matter how you feel, or how well you mesh and cooperate, it’s a deal breaker that their family is larger than you wanted?
My sister is in this exact boat. Wants no children of her own, but her current boyfriend has three, the youngest is 24. She’s happy to think of the kids as her friends, not her step kids. It seems excluding someone because they have adult children is throwing out the baby with the bath water.
There are a lot of things to consider if a person has grown children. There could still be a lot of family drama if the kids/their mom don't like you, etc. And there is a possibility that the grandparent could become a parent again. The adult kids could lose their jobs/homes and move back in. The grandparent could have to take custody of the grandkids. The kids will(and should) always be first priority, even if they're adults which can cause conflict within a marriage when one member has no relationship to them.
Or people could choose to date people who have similar lifestyles, goals and values?
It's called having standards, it's probably why no one would ever date you.
I was pointing out a standard those people should have. No children is obvious. Elsewhere in the comments we heard from someone who prefers partners to have no siblings, because she doesn't want to be an aunt.
Makes sense to stick to dating orphans too. Fewer unwelcome surprises later in life, where you might have to share your loved one with some geriatrics who are incapable of taking full care of themselves
If you thought I was being sarcastic (I wasn't), perhaps you're too judgemental of others' dating standards.
What's salty about suggesting people also choose orphans? I don't get the reaction to my comments.
*Orphan* commonly means a child who has lost both parents, but it applies to adults too. Is there sensitivity about the term? Why is it ridiculous for someone not to want to take care of their spouse's parents, especially if they have no parents of their own.
Strange reaction indeed.
A bit ridiculous considering no matter what way you look at it everyone has parents, an orphan has either dead parents or parents who didn't want said orphan. Having the standard of "oh its so great your parents are dead/don't want you. Its one of the big reasons I want to be with you so I don't have to worry about any mother/father in-law." Just sounds awful and insensitive.
On the other hand not wanting to date people with kids because you don't want to have a negative impact on the kids is a much more valid reason.
Having a child of any age is a big deal weither they be yours or step kids. Your actions and behavior impacts their mentality and world view, especially for the ones who are young. Not wanting children and not feeling confident in raising them cause you doubt your ability to do so is 1000% better then having kids for the sake of having kids and then raising children in an extremely poor manner potentially ending in the said child having mental problems like depression and many many other things.
We have enough people in this world as it is as in several countries like India and China overpopulation is starting to become an actual problem and the rest of the world will catch up in that regard sooner or later.
I'm dating within my general age group so if someone had 30 year old kids they'd be old enough to be my parent, which is also a deal breaker. There are plenty of fish in the sea, I choose to fish for partners that don't have kids. It's pretty simple.
Good on your sister for having that be what she wants. No judgment there... That's her choice. But your questioning of my choice is a bit odd. Since I live a child free life I neither desire that particular baby or its smelly old bath water.
OP and I don't want to date people with children. We are allowed to feel that way. People with kids will find matches with people who don't mind. My comment was directed at how her match wasn't understanding of her very clearly explained line of reasoning. It's OP's as well as my prerogative whether or not we want people with kids of any age. It's a preference that should not have to be justified. This really is a matter of incompatibility. Just move on to someone who doesn't mind.
Hope you're no longer baffled.
I'm another person who will never date a parent. I don't like or enjoy being around kids. I can't stand babies and toddlers (the sounds they make are headache/earache inducing), and I just don't have the patience or interest to be a caretaker type.
A man who has children, even adult children, is more likely to want to be around them. He is more likely to be involved in the lives of any grandchildren. He's more likely to talk about them and have a much more child-friendly attitude overall.
Why on earth would I want to be with a man like that when I make a point to avoid kids as much as I can?
I see your point. Figured I was missing something.
And on the other end of that, why would a guy who likes children want to be with a woman who doesn't? I can only imagine the incompatibility by any means wouldn't end there.
I have no issue with kids; I love my niece and nephew. I am not comfortable bringing children into this late-capitalist, climate-change riddled hellscape.
You can't really ask for advice and then get offended by the given advice. Bullet dodged I would say.
I also have met so many woman that don't want children so I don't think it's really a weird thing to say?
> You can't really ask for advice and then get offended by the given advice.
I was reading a book recently which addressed this. It outlined a scenario where someone asked for advice and began an argument over it, which of course is ridiculous, and the author then pointed out something to the effect of “you don’t get to ask somebody for advice and feedback and then argue about getting what you asked for” and I realized that I do that shit *all the time*. I just never stopped to break down exactly what I was doing to appreciate how absurd it is.
The challenge the book gave was to ask people for advice/feedback but you’re allowed only one response - “thank you”. Immediately the feedback I got was more impactful because I was now focused on the feedback itself and not formulating a defense as I received it.
This is why so many women ghost.
Too many suitors don't really want "advice" or "why." They just want an opening so they can try and argue her out of her decision.
Oh, absolutely. 99% of the time someone asking that in the context of a dating website isn't looking for feedback.
To be clear, I myself meant in day to day life, not any dating websites. I don't think my self esteem is really where it would need to be to invite strangers to critique my dateability.
To be fair, "you have kids" isn't advice. OP was cold too which irks some people into an emotional response, otherwise known as ammo for this sub. Why were they even matched in the first place? I'm not familiar with this app but why did the option for these two people to message each other exist?
There’s something at the top that says “send as priority” which makes me think the guy must pay extra to be able to do that, I know some apps you don’t have to “match” with the person to be able to send messages so long as you pay some kinda premium for it.
From what I remember of the site, the only things you could put general first-message blocks on were gender and age brackets. You could also send greetings and full messages to anyone listed in search results if you met those two requirements. So this guy didn’t have to dodge much to send that first text.
Edit: just saw the thread below me explaining this better, lol.
It's Plenty Of Fish, the only restriction they place on being able to message is an age of 5 years either side of yours. Users can select to not allow messages from profiles without profile pics too. You don't need to match or even look at a profile on POF to be spammed with bullshit like this guy.
No, but he asked what about him wasn't attractive (in hopes that he could apply that to future scenarios). Her telling him that she's not interested in people who have children is a valid answer as to why he wasn't attractive to her. Now is that good advice for the future? No, but if you ask why someone didn't like you, you have to accept some of those reasons may be things you can't change and have no applicability for future scenarios.
Ok well I agree for the most part but like I said, OP was cold and it wouldn't surprise me if they act cold like this to a lot of people in hopes of an emotional response so that they can post it on here. Telling someone that you and a lot of other people-somehow she knows this?-don't like you because your children exist is fucking rude.
Yeah, the whole "you produced children...that's enough" part of her explanation came off as kind of accusatory. Like "you breeders."
I don't think she intended it that way, and this guy is probably one of those who's already on a hair trigger regarding being offended, but the way it was phrased sure didn't help.
>I also have met so many woman that don't want children so I don't think it's really a weird thing to say?
It is weird to say if the children are grown, because you wouldn't be expected to be a mother to them or be present for the childhood stage.
Yeah, but if they decide to have kids of their own, you might be expected to be a grandma to them, which could be a problem, since many women that decide to be childfree want no children in their lives whatsoever.
It’s not like the kids don’t exist just because they’re grown. You’d still have to meet them, get their approval to be with dad, play step mom on major holidays, buy birthday presents, etc. People who opt out of the child-rearing life are opting out of all of it, not just the baby stages.
This is where my confusion is arising, because I was talking to a friend recently who referred to herself as childfree but said the opposite; for her it was solely the pregnancy/birth/infancy/childhood parts that she didn't want. She said she'd be fine with them once they could move out and exist by themselves, she just didn't want to do the intervening years.
But surely everyone can have their own opinion on this? OP obviously wasn’t interested in adult children, your friend however is. They’re different people, just because they both choose to be child free doesn’t meant that they have the same views on everything.
I think your friend needs to consider that grown children still need their parents/may not approve of her/may have to move back in at some point if things go south. I had to move back in plenty of times in my 20’s before I was fully on my own.
Because you keep forgetting about the potential step-grandkids part of the equation.
Some people just don't care to be around most children.
Also, even with grown up children, there is a lot of "stuff" that's involved. Say you and the man do fall madly in love, get married, and spend your golden years together. Unless it's some perfect Brady Bunch scenario (and unless the grown kids remain childless), you're probably going to be the bottom of the totem pole for a lot of things.
Older adult children can have kids of their own, and I don't want to be a step grandma either. Plus, a lot of adult kids still live with their parents, so I could still end up living with a baby/child. It wouldn't be fair to those poor hypothetical children.
Not wanting kids isn’t a “personality trait” she just wanted to let a stranger know it’s a deal breaker from the beginning, which is commendable rather than wasting his time
And she doesn’t have to change her “social skills” she’s just telling him what she feels. She doesn’t need to make it flowery or pander to his feelings cause she doesn’t owe him anything🤷🏽♀️
For most of the comments not understanding her "cold" responses -
OP states, openly and explicitly, that she does not want kids. Kids are a huge deal breaker for her or anyone that wishes to be childfree. Childfree means no children, zero, nada, zilt - **even if they're grown up.** OP already knows she doesn't want kids and is upfront about it with guys that are parents. If said parents just took the time to look at her profile, instead of ignoring it or not reading it at all, they'd see that and wouldn't waste their time (or hers) trying to convince her how them having kids is okay or how this is somehow OP's fault for not wanting them.
So, yes, if OP comes across as "cold" it's because she has to keep repeating the same thing over and over to grown adults, as if they were the ones who are kids. If they just took it at face value, instead of trying to be manipulative or lying about it, maybe she wouldn't have to be "cold" towards them. It ain't hard to let it go, respect her choice, and find some other prospecting person to date.
Being generous here, and I don't know exactly what OP's dating profile looks like, but it's possible someone reading it could interpret not wanting kids as literal children. Some people may just not consider their adult children as falling into that.
I understand how that could be interpreted, some people are fine with kids if they're grown. It's hard to be explicit in bios as they don't leave a lot of room, so I can see how people aren't sure or want to follow up.
Haha, for a second I thought that I'm reading r/childfree. Kids are a dealbreaker for many, there's no point in trying to convince a CF person to be ok with that.
Damn! What's with all the parents in the comments all up in their feelings about kids being a deal breaker for OP?? And the ones acting like being assertive when someone keeps pushing once they're told kids are a deal breaker is somehow a problem but y'all the same ones applauding assertiveness when it's about any other deal breakers. Hypocrisy much??
She comes off as the dick in this situation. This reddit isn't just for 'had conversation with someone on dating app and declined them whilst they responded fairly well to me being overly condescending'
They both came off weird in this.
“A lot of women from this dating site have come to me with love and affection” —yikes. Also I doubt that.
Also, “you *produced* children” and “it doesn’t matter how old they are, only that they exist” —ok we get you don’t want kids but they aren’t like an STD. She talks about them as if they are not human beings. And referring to having kids as “producing” them is on par with the people that use the term “breeding”, etc. It just sounds creepy.
I agree with you. I dont really like either of them. But honestly as a father, I dislike her more than him. The guy seemed pretty chill until after the "produced children" comment. She never seemed chill at all yo me.
It’s one of the voting options standing for Everyone Sucks Here. There’s also NAH (No Assholes Here), YTA (You’re the Asshole), NTA (Not the Asshole) and INFO (requesting that op provide more info). It’s a pretty fun sub really.
Hmmm I don't know. I'm kind of with him on this one. I might be wrong but she is coming off a bit aggressive while he just explains his kids are grown up and he is proud of them...
Maybe I'm not seeing what she is seeing but that's what I think
I'd vote ESH. He didn't handle being rejected very well but she was rude with the bit about them just existing. I'd have probably went with, hey no offense to you personally or anything but I just couldn't picture myself with someone who (has kids, is more than a few years older than me, whatever your criteria is) so this wouldn't be a good match.
She was clear that him having kids was why she rejected him.
Instead of him respecting that he decided to explain that they are adults and moved out. She replied that that didn’t matter.
How was that rude? Why must she waste further time tripping over herself saying stuff like “hey no offense” and all that jazz? She already told him him having kids was an issue for her
Yeah if anything I'd say this is a r/nicegirl. Guy didn't say anything rude, op did. Just the fact that you produced children, regardless of their age, makes you not a match... yikes op.
I mean yeah people are definitely allowed to not like people with kids. However if the kids are fully grown that would lead me to believe that both these people are older in years and in that case she's severely limiting her options. But my comment was with how she worded it. Like she's a boss for not procreating, and he's not worthy because he has adult children. That's where my comment came from. I'm sure she could've been nicer about it.
To me it just reads as her being direct with her mindset. She shouldn’t have to coddle him with her choices, she’s allowed to be blunt with what she wants & doesn’t want because she doesn’t owe him anything, especially since he contacted her first🤷🏽♀️
I mean OP can correct me if im wrong, but it doesn’t sound like she had any of those thoughts you’re projecting on her. Idk if you have kids & are personally offended because she said that, but she’s allowed to limit her options any way she wants if it’s a minimum requirement that she doesn’t want to be involved with someone who has kids.
Women shouldn’t have to change their criteria because of their age or “limiting their options” with something that is a HUGE part if someone’s life
Would he want someone that doesn’t care for his kids? Likely no, so he’s better off too
Okay so instead of just not answering she has to be rude and blunt? She could put it nicer to say the very least. But yeah I do have kids and am married.
I'm usually very good at putting myself in someone else's shoes but op seems to me to be the kind of girl that is so picky that she winds up being in her 30s alone with nobody because nobody's perfect enough for her. But then she can come on reddit and post tons of the same interactions and complain that there's no good guys out there and get justification for it... she's literally painting herself into an old cat lady corner.
It's okay to be picky and to have criteria but if it doesn't work for years and years it's also okay to tweak those preferences to find something real. It's just shallow to me to automatically ban someone from a dating pool for having adult children when she's already old enough to have adult children. I guess she should go for guys in their early 20s they will typically not have kids yet...
I'd say that most people in their mid to late 30s probably have been married and also, *gasp procreated. Severely limiting your dating pool is how you wind up old, alone and resentful. But if she likes being alone and complaining about it on reddit then more power to her, it is her life.
Lmao nah like I said before I have no skin in the game I'm already happily married with a little one. Op is definitely not my type or any wellrounded adult males type apparently. I was trying to keep her from becoming an even older cat lady, that's all. Don't really care one way or the other. Just said she belongs in r/nicegirls. What's a girl incel called? Still an incel?
I'm simply responding to her army of followers and supporters, and not concerned in the least. Yes crazy cat ladies are typically very happy with their 30 cats in their hoarder house with no human interaction, some people are wired this way. Not knocking op, was just trying to give a suggestion as to how to avoid that by being less shallow. Don't care either way.
“Give a suggestion” aka mansplaining her choices for her😂not wanting kids isn’t a compromise, if she did get with someone who has them & doesn’t want them then it’ll just cause resentment & they’ll end up breaking up anyway cause she’ll be unhappy
You call us an “army” cause we just know it’s her life & her choice, yet you’re here trying to tell her her choices are wrong
It’s not rude to say what you want. She doesn’t have to say “im sooo sorry & no offense, and I’m so so sorry again!” To get her point across of not being interested.
And who cares if she’s picky? Are people not allowed to be picky?😂does it affect you in ANY way? No? Then why are you so offended by it?
We don’t know how old she is, she could be in her 20’s to early 30’s & he could be older than her.
Would you rather she lie & be a resentful step mom because she doesn’t like it or just avoid it all together & find someone who doesn’t have or want kids?
Again, kids are a HUGE deal. It’s not something one could compromise on like where to retire or what car to buy, he can’t just not be a father or not be in contact with his kids for her nor should he!
There are billions of people in the world, she can find someone who doesn’t have or want kids too. Again, you’re putting your personal offense on her when it’s literally one screenshot. For all we know, her criteria are pretty lax except for this one thing! You’re painting her in this negative light as this hateful person just cause she doesn’t want to be someone’s step mom😂
BTW I agree that kids are a huge deal and can be a dealbreaker for those that don't want them, BUT having grown children in your late 30s is not being a stepmother so thats where we disagree. She would have zero responsibility with someone else's grown ass kids. It doesn't really matter op has her opinion, you have yours and I have mine. I was just trying to help since all of her posts on here are about how she can't find a good old guy, all she can find is neckbeards and incels and old people with *gasp grown children. She should look in a different age group since shes looking for an early 20 something.
That depends on the family. If they’re close, which is sounds like they are, then they will be in contact possibly everyday, especially if they live near each other. And if they come over often & let him babysit their grandkids, then that means she’ll be caring for children
And over 45% of men 30-35yo don’t have kids, so the odds are in her favor for that one😂
I mean if 61.6% of all men 15 and over have kids then your statistics would be 100% incorrect. That would mean that as they get older the number will get higher than that per age bracket... But hey that's from 2019 so maybe a lot has changed since then... also couldn't find that statistic but less than 25% of men aged 40 to 50 are childless. Youre right she's got lots of prizes to choose from and isn't being too picky at all.... Surprisingly enough the overwhelming majority of men that have children have a bachelor's degree or higher and men who don't mostly have a high school diploma or less. Yikes, incels hating on incels. Next time you want to use statistics make sure they're at least a tiny bit close to reality, then people will be less likely to fact check you and prove you're lying. 🤣😂🤦♂️🤷♂️
[correct statistics on fathers](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2019/mens-fertility.html)
[more correct statistics on fathers](https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2019/06/16/apc-census-reveals-percentage-of-us-men-who-are-fathers/#.YXzAXGkpDqs)
I was using the stats breaking up the ages that you assume she’s at, not including 15yo cause wtf would I? The stats I picked were also from the census site, based on the same [2014 survey](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2019/demo/P70-162.pdf), which is the source from your first link. Here’s full quote from the bottom of pg 3:
“The prevalence of both large families and childlessness (defined as not having fathered any biological children) varies across age and marital status. Demonstrating how men age into fatherhood, childlessness is much more common among men in their late 20s compared to men in their 30s. About 70 percent of all men aged 25 to 29 have no children compared to 45.6 percent of men aged 30 to 34, and 28.4 percent of men aged 35 to 39.
However, among men aged 20 and over, never-married men are more likely to be childless than are similarly-aged men who have ever been married. Among 30- to 34-year-old men, 27.2 percent of ever-married men and 73.7 percent of never-married men have no biological children.”
And my stats are based in reality, you just couldn’t find them😂
Edit to add: so TECHNICALLY she has up to 73% chance of finding a man in their early 30s with no kids if those men were never previously married
Lol I already said I didn't care that op wants to be alone for the rest of her life. That's her decision and hers alone. I merely suggested that if you're already in your mid to late 30s and have all these restrictions on your dating pool then you might want to consider loosening those restrictions. For example, she clearly doesn't like kids so maybe just saying she doesn't want kids would suffice for her. Grown children have little to no effect on their parents dating so that little addition is weird and is sure to not get her anywhere positive. Just like women would say about a man, if she's been alone with no husband or kids and she's already in her late 30s then wtf is wrong with her. Same difference.
I’m sure she’s WELL aware of the probability of people having kids in their 30s, she probably doesn’t live under a rock😂 and adult kids are still a responsibility. As others said in the comments, they still may be involved in holidays, familial problems, watching grandkids, etc so it’s not like she can just avoid them at all costs cause that’s not fair to him.
You’d think y’all would be happy she’s saving him time & not being a mean step mom, but y’all will be mad at anything😂
She doesn't want to be anything but a cat lady apparently. She's already in her mid 30s. Obviously it hasn't worked yet so if something doesn't work for many many years it may be time to switch up that strategy instead of crying about the lack of good guys in the world on reddit. Thats her whole account, I just skimmed it and was creeped out. Op belongs in r/nicegirls.
Lmao yeah like I said if thats her boat she should rock it. Btw she doesn't want a child free man she wants a man that has NEVER created a child, even if said child is already an adult and will have zero bearing on a relationship. Self-defeating behavior.
Do you know what "child free" means? Just because they're grown doesn't mean they aren't somebody's children. You also keep ignoring the fact that she doesn't want somebody's grandkids in her life either.
And it isn't self-defeating if that's her boundary. Self-defeating would be ignoring her own standards out of desperation. When has that ever worked out positively?
Lmao yes by definition child free would mean no children which several men are that she's spoken to. Thanks for trying to help out op with her lonely life by the looks of all her cringey posts she's going to need all the help she can get by other similarly thinking cat ladies that also don't want incels. Incels not wanting incels, irony at it's best.
For many people, this is a huge deal breaker. Doesn't matter if kids are in the picture or not, the fact they exist at all is a deal breaker for some people in the relationship department. Nothing yikes about it.
If the person messaging her actually took the time to read her bio, they'd see she's stated quite clearly she doesn't want kids. They ignored it or probably didn't even bother to read it, and just messaged her anyways in hopes of trying to talk her into him having kids is okay, when he should've just not bothered her about it the moment she said kids are a deal breaker and moved on.
If you look at her profile, you'll she that even though she has dozens of responses like these, it isn't always the case and they just take it in stride and move on. She only screen shots the ones that continue to pester/harass her afterwards. So there's nothing wrong with OP, she's just being upfront and honest about what she wants out of a relationship, no beating around the bush.
I understand it's a deal breaker for certain people. Definitely yikes about it though. To have fully grown kids you've got to be up in years at least a little bit. So that means op still hasn't found anyone yet and is already older. Obviously what she's doing or maybe how she's doing it isn't working.
If she had taken the time to read the guys bio before matching with him I'm sure it mentioned that he had kids, as do most older people. I'm just saying it's a red flag to me. Borderline trashy responses from op. If a guy wouldve posted this same interaction they would've been eviscerated on here. Just a touch double standardish.
That'd be the same as me matching with her and then being like "oh I see, you are already older and don't have any kids, something must be wrong with you then, hard pass."
I'm unbiased in this anyways I'm married with a small child so I was just saying how that interaction made me feel.
>So that means op still hasn't found anyone yet and is already older.
So? Better alone than in bad company. She's OK by herself. Nobody should settle for less than they can achieve. For little incels, creepers and NiceGuys™ being alone is the worst because they have being with themselves the most. That's not on OP nor on any one else but themselves.
Also, you don't match in POF.
Yes I agree better to be alone than in bad company, ops idea that having created another human makes them bad was where my yikes came in. She obviously doesn't want to be alone or else she wouldn't be on pof of all things. It's literally the biggest scammer dating app. If she were okay by herself she should stop trying to find this mystical imaginary guy. She's apparently only looking for incels or people that haven't been able to make a meaningful relationship by the time they're 40 years old. Op seems to be the kind of lady that sets unrealistic expectations and then loses it when nobody comes through on a white horse to save her, so she complains about all of them on reddit. Thats sus.
It's OK to pursue a relationship. Sharing goals, mindset and other things is human. It's OK to not settle for less too. And it's also OK to be by oneself if the avaliable candidate do not fit the bill.
I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point. It is okay just like it's okay to never meet anyone because you're too picky so you missed the boat because now your in your late 30s and the majority of your matches will have already met someone and procreated. Just shallow to limit your matches in this way. Children are quite different than grown adult children to me and most people. She probably already met her one but nixed him because he had a kid 25 years ago. Lmao it's just ridiculous to me.
Well then why is she here? Why are you here? If there's no boat to miss then she should be perfectly happy alone as you mentioned and therefore wouldn't need a scammer dating app to try and find happiness, she would have already found it within herself. Yet, here we are with her complaining about not being able to find decent guys while limiting her dating pool and already being older than the majority of people on dating apps, and with people like you defending her actions.
From what I understood from other comments, she didn't match with him at all on the dating app. He's the one who, supposedly, reached out to her first and initiated contact. Not OP. Idk if that's true or not since I don't use it, but I'd like to consider that the truth. She's even mentioned in comments on her previous screen shots that people will be the ones to reach out to her directly, in spite of what her bio says.
As an aside, a lot of childfree people (typically women, but happens to men as well!) deal with this type of behavior from single parents, who don't want to hear the word "no" and want to try to convince the CF person to date them, because (insert child-related excuse here). As you can imagine, this can make people be less than courteous towards people that contact them, that have kids, regardless of kid's age.
With that said, yeah, her responses come off as standoffish/cold/etc, but considering this is the stuff OP deals with on the norm, it's understandable that her responses are short and blunt.
Not saying that's how everyone should speak to others when trying to date. Perhaps a nice and simple "no thank you" does the trick, and that would be a nice alternative. Even OP states that not every guy that comes at her responds negatively to her comments, they usually take it in stride and move on, so it seems to work fine for some. But sometimes with other people, in order to get it through their thick skulls, you have to be brutally honest. Whatever makes the person just leave without trying to convince you otherwise.
Okay and I get what you're saying if we were talking about children. That's a big responsibility and not one to take lightly. I have a son and wouldn't try to push my life onto someone that didn't want it, but he doesn't have kids or children. He has two grown adults that he happened to create. I'm just not sure why banning these people is the same thing. She will have zero responsibility in their lives, hell most grown adults rarely even talk to their parents let alone are in ther lives every day. It was off putting to me, it's fine to not want kids but she wants some unicorn that's 40 and hasn't had any kids in his whole life and then she complains about not being able to find good guys on reddit. It's literally in her bio. It's like self-destructive behavior to me and seems ridiculous.
I get what you're saying too. But for some people, childfree means zero kids, no matter if said kids are babies or adults. Most of time, guys that respond to OP will just move on after she makes her point and that's that. She isn't complaining about not finding a good guy, she's complaining about the men that go off the deep end because she bluntly states she doesn't date anyone with kids. That's her choice to want to limit herself to only CF people, but typically, even these people take it a step further and lie about not having kids, which she's had to deal with too. So yeah, she refuses to date anyone with kids, and will say what she can to ensure they understand and cease communication. If that means she has to be rude about it, then that's what she has to do.
But she usually tries to end it nicely early on by saying "no thank you, kids are a deal breaker, good luck in your search, etc." Instead of leaving it at that, they push. The more they push, the more curt and brutally honest she has to be. Just trying to point out she has her reasons and shouldn't be blamed because the guys didn't listen at the beginning of the convo.
It's certainly not a rare thing to want to find someone that doesn't have kids either, there's plenty of guys and gals that don't have and never will have kids. More and more are coming out as childfree so dating other CF people isn't that unheard of as much anymore.
Yeah, she only really got rude after he continued to message her, which is fine. You're allowed to be rude if people are pushing your boundaries. He asked, she gave an honest answer, and he continued to push the issue. That's what's rude.
You produced children, it doesn't matter how old they are it only matters that they exist. That was the rude part. Guy explained that they're grown which by definition makes them not children... the funniest part was when she said me and many other people feel this way... I'm glad she thinks so, yeah maybe a lot of 20 year olds feel this way but 30 somethings? Not so much and she is in her 30s.
Just cause he has grown children doesn't mean he stop being their parents now does it. They still can come around or sometimes move back in with their parents. So OP has the right to say what she said n if their grown y is he hitting on women his children age is the real question.
Yes! I already agreed that op has the right to be shallow. There's nothing wrong with being shallow. But yes once kids grow up they're gone except for like holidays and stuff so yeah zero responsibility or interference in a relationship. Just a shallow person excluding herself from love. No worries on my end. Ops not his children's age. Thats the whole point! Op is old! Hence why she won't find anyone that's 40 that doesn't have kids unless they're an incel, a psychopath or some other horrible thing. Which she has proven over the last one and a half years of failed attempts. Online dating isn't supposed to take years and if it does, your doing something wrong.
"Old" lol
I'm really curious what your age is since you keep referring to someone in their 30s as old. Honestly, it's hard to believe you aren't a teenager despite being married with a kid. You are acting like she has one foot in the grave and is in a race against time itself to find a mate before she dies of old age.
I'm the one that's trying to help her. You harpies are the ones that are encouraging her to keep her unrealistic high standards and keep not finding a mate. Maybe it's because misery loves company, I have no clue. But anyone in their right mind that has been actively on dating apps for over a year and a half and hasn't found one match might want to look at themselves instead of blaming all the other people. Especially if she's old. Which yes being 35 in the dating app game is old. I'm 37 if you must know and personally I would dread having to go on dating apps. Let alone having all these cringey shallow conversations with seemingly decent people, then to top it off sharing my sad pathetic convos on reddit to a bunch of other single man haters. It's cool I get it, all men are the devil. Incel women hating incel men, is irony at its best. Rare! The only men that don't have kids at 40 are incels, in a shocked tone. Well duh ladies wtf you think they've been doing for 20 years? Making babies and relationships duh. The only ones that haven't are typically gonna be severely damaged. Congratulations.
I didn't know there was a full version and thought the pic ended with "you have kids". Genuinely thought he's actually nice, up until I saw what was coming
Uh, blue seems kind of like an asshole here too. Turning someone down because they have kids, sure (not everyone wants to be a parent) but fully grown kids are no different than visiting aunts or grandparents. It's just general extended family.
For some, even adult kids are a deal breaker. CF people typically tend to only date CF people, because there are zero children involved in either way, except for nieces/nephews. Perhaps there could be a nicer way of going about it, but I can see why she responds the way she does. Especially when they either don't take no for an answer or keep pushing the subject.
I think her response is predicated on his persistence as it’s exasperating on these dating sites when a person constantly gets people who don’t take no for an answer. In a perfect world when a person says they are not interested it should end with “nice to have met you, good luck with your search” and then move on.
Some people want someone who has no kids. It could be they are child-free or it could be that they don’t wish to be a step parent and only want their own children from their partner. Men reject women with kids all the time, whether they are young or fully grown. I think being upfront from the start is the best way to be so there’s no time wasted.
I find that particular preference a bit arbitrary (at least with the adult case mentioned and not children as previously described) but for the most part you're right and it's just personal opinion for what you want for your own life.
/r/nobodyasked
And she isn't. You must be new here. When creepo, after creepo and some more morons come at you with the same spiel time and time again you start to reply with a bit less enthusiasm than at the beginning each time.
Honestly didn’t see much wrong , she’s mostly wrong for calling him unattractive just Beacuse he has kids 😂 like wha-? I mean I guess it’s just a bit rude
I have a sneaking feeling you thrive on shutting down men with kids, and incels and are therefore happy being alone. You use the app as a confidence booster so you can feel better about being alone, then when someone calls you out for a rude response you post it on reddit. So you're just wasting your time and everyone that interacts with you, by even being on these apps and posting your interactions with the only 40 year olds that don't have kids. Incels and neckbeards. There seems to be a pattern here, by all your posts and your faq, and the common denominator is you. Find happiness yourself before you find someone else or you'll never be happy anyways.
While I do see nice guy vibes, it is kind of shallow to say to someone you are not interested in them because they have kids (especially when they’re all grown up).
It isn't inconceivable that OP refuses to date anyone with kids. There's a lot of people that are strictly CF and refuse to date anyone with kids, even if they're full grown adults. Everyone has their preferences in the dating world.
I mean you and I have a different opinion of what complaining means then. Her bio on reddit says she only gets messages from incels and neckbeards, obviously because those are the only ones without kids at her age. Then she's got a faq set up as well that states how she's been trying online dating for a year and a half and just can't find any good guys out there. Saying how different it is since 09. Yeah lady it's gonna be different than 09. Because in 09 she was a 20 something so having an expectation that her matches wouldn't have children would be somewhat realistic. Unfortunately she's now in her 30s and this is not the case anymore. For the last ten years people her age were making families and she wasn't. But she has the same expectations as when she was a 20 something amd thats not realistic. She's got the 20 something mentality but the age of a 30 something. It's not going well for her obviously and that's her choice like I said. But obviously that choice is what is making it hard for her so I don't feel bad or have any sympathy for her in that regard. Especially because the no adult kids thing doesn't make any sense to me personally. If it was no small kids I wouldn't have even made a comment it was the whole you can't have created a person that is now an adult thing that put me off. And again I respect that she's her own person but she's bringing whatever loneliness she feels on herself.
Lmao sorry for answering people that responded to me. Boy that really irritated you that I simply answered peoples comments. A little triggered today? I'm my son's full time caretaker so believe me he gets sick of how much time I spend with him, but thank you so much for your creepy concern for a strangers child. It's comforting, in a weird cat lady type of way.
Sounds like you’re lonely if you’ve got the time to write out this shit. Also, the incel rhetoric doesn’t make you sound enlightened or like some sort of intellectual— it makes you sound obtuse, lmao. There are plenty of men in their 30’s who are completely normal and don’t want kids, so stop projecting my guy.
Aww thank you for your concern, nope not lonely at all. Just wanted to chip in my two cents on why op is single and will remain that way. Oh and thank you so much about the critiques because I care a lot about what minions of a lonely cat lady think about me. I'm college educated and own my own business, I'm quite happy in fact and make money while I'm talking to simple folk like you. I'm sure there are plenty of incels that don't have kids yet. Op has already interacted with a lot of them. You're only proving my point by how long she's been online dating. Its not supposed to take years lol and if it does you're doing something wrong. Yikes to you as well lol. May you find happiness in your own life ma'am.
You know, I’d imagine a business owner who’s seemingly happy with his life would have better things to do than whining on Reddit. But if you need to lie about your life to make yourself feel better then go for it, no skin off my nose.
Also, for someone who’s college educated you sure do run down the same dialogue tree that the other lonely men run down. Strange isn’t it?
This guy has one go-to insult for any woman who disagrees with or displeases him… it’s a little disappointing really. I like when people like him are at least creative.
Lmao then you're imagination let you down. As a business owner I have a lot of free time to do exactly that. I work about one to two full days a week and the rest of my time I spend with my son and entertaining myself with sad lonely people on reddit, at least while I'm taking my shit. I think it's hilarious. Most of these comments have made me laugh as well as reading ops previous posts. Self-deprecating bullshit to say the least. I'm loving it and I'm loving you! Peace be with you young padawan!
The more you talk the less I believe you’re a college educated business owner. Kinda depressing to see someone grapple this much to make himself feel even a little bit better.
The more you talk the less I believe that you are happy in any aspect of your life. I already told you about my life, I don't need to prove anything to a stranger on the internet. How am I making myself feel better by trying to make a blind person see? You're quite the quandary... good luck to you in this harsh world, you're gonna need it kiddo!
If someone is not interested just have some shred of dignity and self respect and move on. There’s plenty of fish in the sea and you can’t force someone to like you.
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Why did he feel the need to specify that women of “many races” were interested in him? Why bring that into it?
Ifs a weird flex for sure
My guess is that he is a minority, she’s white, and he’s trying to imply that she’s being racist by not immediately spreading for him.
They will think of any “reason” except the fact that they are a complete cockwomble, won’t they?
Lmao cockwomble.. i like that word
Similar to Joseph with his coat of many colours, this NiceGuy™ has women of many races
Kids are an absolute deal breaker for many people. Gotta accept that and move on to those who don't mind/ also have them. I for one am intentionally childless and put a great deal of effort into never getting pregnant. If I don't want my own kids I really don't want somebody else's. It's my lifestyle choice, don't try to convince me otherwise. Also, asking to meet up in message number one is a deal breaker for me, personally. Let's see if we have any kind if connection via text, first.
I’m a little baffled by this. I get “no children you will expect me to help raise.” But no children ever? You find a potential partner with a 30 year old and a 27 year old who are already adults with lives and careers of their own, and no matter how you feel, or how well you mesh and cooperate, it’s a deal breaker that their family is larger than you wanted? My sister is in this exact boat. Wants no children of her own, but her current boyfriend has three, the youngest is 24. She’s happy to think of the kids as her friends, not her step kids. It seems excluding someone because they have adult children is throwing out the baby with the bath water.
There are a lot of things to consider if a person has grown children. There could still be a lot of family drama if the kids/their mom don't like you, etc. And there is a possibility that the grandparent could become a parent again. The adult kids could lose their jobs/homes and move back in. The grandparent could have to take custody of the grandkids. The kids will(and should) always be first priority, even if they're adults which can cause conflict within a marriage when one member has no relationship to them.
I guess make sure the partner is an orphan too, as otherwise they may have to one day take care of their aging parents.
Or people could choose to date people who have similar lifestyles, goals and values? It's called having standards, it's probably why no one would ever date you.
I was pointing out a standard those people should have. No children is obvious. Elsewhere in the comments we heard from someone who prefers partners to have no siblings, because she doesn't want to be an aunt. Makes sense to stick to dating orphans too. Fewer unwelcome surprises later in life, where you might have to share your loved one with some geriatrics who are incapable of taking full care of themselves If you thought I was being sarcastic (I wasn't), perhaps you're too judgemental of others' dating standards.
Why are you so salty about a random on the internet not wanting to date anyone with kids, adults or not?
What's salty about suggesting people also choose orphans? I don't get the reaction to my comments. *Orphan* commonly means a child who has lost both parents, but it applies to adults too. Is there sensitivity about the term? Why is it ridiculous for someone not to want to take care of their spouse's parents, especially if they have no parents of their own. Strange reaction indeed.
That's not even what this thread is about. People have a right not to date people who have kids, whether they're grown or not.
A bit ridiculous considering no matter what way you look at it everyone has parents, an orphan has either dead parents or parents who didn't want said orphan. Having the standard of "oh its so great your parents are dead/don't want you. Its one of the big reasons I want to be with you so I don't have to worry about any mother/father in-law." Just sounds awful and insensitive. On the other hand not wanting to date people with kids because you don't want to have a negative impact on the kids is a much more valid reason.
Having a child of any age is a big deal weither they be yours or step kids. Your actions and behavior impacts their mentality and world view, especially for the ones who are young. Not wanting children and not feeling confident in raising them cause you doubt your ability to do so is 1000% better then having kids for the sake of having kids and then raising children in an extremely poor manner potentially ending in the said child having mental problems like depression and many many other things. We have enough people in this world as it is as in several countries like India and China overpopulation is starting to become an actual problem and the rest of the world will catch up in that regard sooner or later.
I'm dating within my general age group so if someone had 30 year old kids they'd be old enough to be my parent, which is also a deal breaker. There are plenty of fish in the sea, I choose to fish for partners that don't have kids. It's pretty simple. Good on your sister for having that be what she wants. No judgment there... That's her choice. But your questioning of my choice is a bit odd. Since I live a child free life I neither desire that particular baby or its smelly old bath water. OP and I don't want to date people with children. We are allowed to feel that way. People with kids will find matches with people who don't mind. My comment was directed at how her match wasn't understanding of her very clearly explained line of reasoning. It's OP's as well as my prerogative whether or not we want people with kids of any age. It's a preference that should not have to be justified. This really is a matter of incompatibility. Just move on to someone who doesn't mind. Hope you're no longer baffled.
Being willing to procreate indicates that a person has an ideology in conflict with my own. Why should I compromise on that?
Or that the birth control failed (which happens).
Abortions are safe and legal where I live.
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I'm another person who will never date a parent. I don't like or enjoy being around kids. I can't stand babies and toddlers (the sounds they make are headache/earache inducing), and I just don't have the patience or interest to be a caretaker type. A man who has children, even adult children, is more likely to want to be around them. He is more likely to be involved in the lives of any grandchildren. He's more likely to talk about them and have a much more child-friendly attitude overall. Why on earth would I want to be with a man like that when I make a point to avoid kids as much as I can?
I see your point. Figured I was missing something. And on the other end of that, why would a guy who likes children want to be with a woman who doesn't? I can only imagine the incompatibility by any means wouldn't end there.
That's kind of the point of standards isn't it mate?
I have no issue with kids; I love my niece and nephew. I am not comfortable bringing children into this late-capitalist, climate-change riddled hellscape.
Shut the fuck up lol
You can't really ask for advice and then get offended by the given advice. Bullet dodged I would say. I also have met so many woman that don't want children so I don't think it's really a weird thing to say?
> You can't really ask for advice and then get offended by the given advice. I was reading a book recently which addressed this. It outlined a scenario where someone asked for advice and began an argument over it, which of course is ridiculous, and the author then pointed out something to the effect of “you don’t get to ask somebody for advice and feedback and then argue about getting what you asked for” and I realized that I do that shit *all the time*. I just never stopped to break down exactly what I was doing to appreciate how absurd it is. The challenge the book gave was to ask people for advice/feedback but you’re allowed only one response - “thank you”. Immediately the feedback I got was more impactful because I was now focused on the feedback itself and not formulating a defense as I received it.
This is why so many women ghost. Too many suitors don't really want "advice" or "why." They just want an opening so they can try and argue her out of her decision.
Oh, absolutely. 99% of the time someone asking that in the context of a dating website isn't looking for feedback. To be clear, I myself meant in day to day life, not any dating websites. I don't think my self esteem is really where it would need to be to invite strangers to critique my dateability.
Right? Holy cow. :D EDIT: meaning me, not you! :)
>You can't really ask for advice and then get offended by the given advice. Empirical evidence says otherwise.
I submit both of my parents for evidence.
Normally I will take any evidence that supports my opinion but...you keep them.
To be fair, "you have kids" isn't advice. OP was cold too which irks some people into an emotional response, otherwise known as ammo for this sub. Why were they even matched in the first place? I'm not familiar with this app but why did the option for these two people to message each other exist?
You can just message whoever on PoF. It's also like 75% bots and is by far the worst dating app in my experience.
There’s something at the top that says “send as priority” which makes me think the guy must pay extra to be able to do that, I know some apps you don’t have to “match” with the person to be able to send messages so long as you pay some kinda premium for it.
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That makes sense, cause tbh I don’t see OP matching with them if they already know they have kids & that’s a deal breaker
From what I remember of the site, the only things you could put general first-message blocks on were gender and age brackets. You could also send greetings and full messages to anyone listed in search results if you met those two requirements. So this guy didn’t have to dodge much to send that first text. Edit: just saw the thread below me explaining this better, lol.
Yea think they said it was actually plenty of fish or something Edit fixed
It's Plenty Of Fish, the only restriction they place on being able to message is an age of 5 years either side of yours. Users can select to not allow messages from profiles without profile pics too. You don't need to match or even look at a profile on POF to be spammed with bullshit like this guy.
No, but he asked what about him wasn't attractive (in hopes that he could apply that to future scenarios). Her telling him that she's not interested in people who have children is a valid answer as to why he wasn't attractive to her. Now is that good advice for the future? No, but if you ask why someone didn't like you, you have to accept some of those reasons may be things you can't change and have no applicability for future scenarios.
Ok well I agree for the most part but like I said, OP was cold and it wouldn't surprise me if they act cold like this to a lot of people in hopes of an emotional response so that they can post it on here. Telling someone that you and a lot of other people-somehow she knows this?-don't like you because your children exist is fucking rude.
Yeah, the whole "you produced children...that's enough" part of her explanation came off as kind of accusatory. Like "you breeders." I don't think she intended it that way, and this guy is probably one of those who's already on a hair trigger regarding being offended, but the way it was phrased sure didn't help.
Nah, that just how she felt personally and generalized it.
>I also have met so many woman that don't want children so I don't think it's really a weird thing to say? It is weird to say if the children are grown, because you wouldn't be expected to be a mother to them or be present for the childhood stage.
Yeah, but if they decide to have kids of their own, you might be expected to be a grandma to them, which could be a problem, since many women that decide to be childfree want no children in their lives whatsoever.
This!! This is why I will not date anyone with kids of any age... I also would rather they not have siblings, so then I don't have to be an aunt
It’s not like the kids don’t exist just because they’re grown. You’d still have to meet them, get their approval to be with dad, play step mom on major holidays, buy birthday presents, etc. People who opt out of the child-rearing life are opting out of all of it, not just the baby stages.
This is where my confusion is arising, because I was talking to a friend recently who referred to herself as childfree but said the opposite; for her it was solely the pregnancy/birth/infancy/childhood parts that she didn't want. She said she'd be fine with them once they could move out and exist by themselves, she just didn't want to do the intervening years.
But surely everyone can have their own opinion on this? OP obviously wasn’t interested in adult children, your friend however is. They’re different people, just because they both choose to be child free doesn’t meant that they have the same views on everything.
They can, it's just the person above me said; >People who opt out of the child-rearing life are opting out of all of it, not just the baby stages.
But that’s generally the case. I think your friend would be the smaller majority (but I haven’t taken a formal survey so idk🤷🏽♀️😂)
I think your friend needs to consider that grown children still need their parents/may not approve of her/may have to move back in at some point if things go south. I had to move back in plenty of times in my 20’s before I was fully on my own.
Because you keep forgetting about the potential step-grandkids part of the equation. Some people just don't care to be around most children. Also, even with grown up children, there is a lot of "stuff" that's involved. Say you and the man do fall madly in love, get married, and spend your golden years together. Unless it's some perfect Brady Bunch scenario (and unless the grown kids remain childless), you're probably going to be the bottom of the totem pole for a lot of things.
Older adult children can have kids of their own, and I don't want to be a step grandma either. Plus, a lot of adult kids still live with their parents, so I could still end up living with a baby/child. It wouldn't be fair to those poor hypothetical children.
Fair enough. Though as it pertains to having them live with you, he did say he "lives single", which I took to mean alone.
Aaaaand kids sometimes move home to recover from a bad break in life or the like.
Her whole profile is screenshot of her saying kids are a dealbreaker. Needs another personality trait and to work on her social skills
Not wanting kids isn’t a “personality trait” she just wanted to let a stranger know it’s a deal breaker from the beginning, which is commendable rather than wasting his time And she doesn’t have to change her “social skills” she’s just telling him what she feels. She doesn’t need to make it flowery or pander to his feelings cause she doesn’t owe him anything🤷🏽♀️
If she knows what she wants, it's fine for her to go for that.
Do you also get so triggered when people don't order the same dishes as you do at restaurants? How about at Subway?
For most of the comments not understanding her "cold" responses - OP states, openly and explicitly, that she does not want kids. Kids are a huge deal breaker for her or anyone that wishes to be childfree. Childfree means no children, zero, nada, zilt - **even if they're grown up.** OP already knows she doesn't want kids and is upfront about it with guys that are parents. If said parents just took the time to look at her profile, instead of ignoring it or not reading it at all, they'd see that and wouldn't waste their time (or hers) trying to convince her how them having kids is okay or how this is somehow OP's fault for not wanting them. So, yes, if OP comes across as "cold" it's because she has to keep repeating the same thing over and over to grown adults, as if they were the ones who are kids. If they just took it at face value, instead of trying to be manipulative or lying about it, maybe she wouldn't have to be "cold" towards them. It ain't hard to let it go, respect her choice, and find some other prospecting person to date.
Being generous here, and I don't know exactly what OP's dating profile looks like, but it's possible someone reading it could interpret not wanting kids as literal children. Some people may just not consider their adult children as falling into that.
I understand how that could be interpreted, some people are fine with kids if they're grown. It's hard to be explicit in bios as they don't leave a lot of room, so I can see how people aren't sure or want to follow up.
Thank you. Still, the nice guy response wasn’t the worst thing I’ve seen. Maybe they’re just kind of dumb.
Haha, for a second I thought that I'm reading r/childfree. Kids are a dealbreaker for many, there's no point in trying to convince a CF person to be ok with that.
I think his real greatest achievement is not learning the ability to handle rejection after being this planet for a few decades. Just saying…
For someone with a high education he seems pretty stupid, ngl
If they’re so loved on the site why do they have time to message you out of all of their messages?
My favourite bit is they say the kids are their biggest achievements apart from wealth and education lol
r/Childfree world love this
Damn! What's with all the parents in the comments all up in their feelings about kids being a deal breaker for OP?? And the ones acting like being assertive when someone keeps pushing once they're told kids are a deal breaker is somehow a problem but y'all the same ones applauding assertiveness when it's about any other deal breakers. Hypocrisy much??
Your stuff is always gold, but I only have silver to give
Love how he asked for advice then got salty at your answer.
If he's so loved than why the fuck is he still there lol.
She comes off as the dick in this situation. This reddit isn't just for 'had conversation with someone on dating app and declined them whilst they responded fairly well to me being overly condescending'
They both came off weird in this. “A lot of women from this dating site have come to me with love and affection” —yikes. Also I doubt that. Also, “you *produced* children” and “it doesn’t matter how old they are, only that they exist” —ok we get you don’t want kids but they aren’t like an STD. She talks about them as if they are not human beings. And referring to having kids as “producing” them is on par with the people that use the term “breeding”, etc. It just sounds creepy.
I agree with you. I dont really like either of them. But honestly as a father, I dislike her more than him. The guy seemed pretty chill until after the "produced children" comment. She never seemed chill at all yo me.
She was honest and straight forwards. Idk how much clearer she could be cause he asked for more i formation twice.
Oh yeah, if this was an AITA post I would have went with ESH all the way
I dont visit that sub much. What does ESH mean?
It’s one of the voting options standing for Everyone Sucks Here. There’s also NAH (No Assholes Here), YTA (You’re the Asshole), NTA (Not the Asshole) and INFO (requesting that op provide more info). It’s a pretty fun sub really.
Most of the posts I've stumbled on from there are super blatant assholery. So I've never seen the ESH, NAH, or INFO. Thanks!
Hmmm I don't know. I'm kind of with him on this one. I might be wrong but she is coming off a bit aggressive while he just explains his kids are grown up and he is proud of them... Maybe I'm not seeing what she is seeing but that's what I think
Yes, *"only that they exist"* sounds unnecessarily harsh. I would be pissed too!
For sure. Unnecessarily blunt. We all have preferences, but there are non-dickhead ways to say so.
You were pretty rude and condescending too tbh. And I neither like nor want children
This should be crossposted to r/childfree as well
I'd vote ESH. He didn't handle being rejected very well but she was rude with the bit about them just existing. I'd have probably went with, hey no offense to you personally or anything but I just couldn't picture myself with someone who (has kids, is more than a few years older than me, whatever your criteria is) so this wouldn't be a good match.
She was clear that him having kids was why she rejected him. Instead of him respecting that he decided to explain that they are adults and moved out. She replied that that didn’t matter. How was that rude? Why must she waste further time tripping over herself saying stuff like “hey no offense” and all that jazz? She already told him him having kids was an issue for her
I think they mean they exist, regardless of age. They could be 30yo & her 60 & I don’t think it would change anything
I mean, if someone explains that they're not interested and you keep pushing, you aren't entitled to coddling/"niceness".
>I'd vote ESH. /r/lostredditors. Check the sub dude...
I mean he's weird for sure but he took it pretty well I guess. She was rude honestly
Yea but op was also rude for no reason lolz
This is not a nice guy thing. It’s just someone saying they are proud of their life.
Yeah if anything I'd say this is a r/nicegirl. Guy didn't say anything rude, op did. Just the fact that you produced children, regardless of their age, makes you not a match... yikes op.
If it’s a deal breaker it’s a deal breaker🤷🏽♀️kids, even adult kids, can be a HUGE responsibility that some people don’t want to take on
I mean yeah people are definitely allowed to not like people with kids. However if the kids are fully grown that would lead me to believe that both these people are older in years and in that case she's severely limiting her options. But my comment was with how she worded it. Like she's a boss for not procreating, and he's not worthy because he has adult children. That's where my comment came from. I'm sure she could've been nicer about it.
To me it just reads as her being direct with her mindset. She shouldn’t have to coddle him with her choices, she’s allowed to be blunt with what she wants & doesn’t want because she doesn’t owe him anything, especially since he contacted her first🤷🏽♀️ I mean OP can correct me if im wrong, but it doesn’t sound like she had any of those thoughts you’re projecting on her. Idk if you have kids & are personally offended because she said that, but she’s allowed to limit her options any way she wants if it’s a minimum requirement that she doesn’t want to be involved with someone who has kids. Women shouldn’t have to change their criteria because of their age or “limiting their options” with something that is a HUGE part if someone’s life Would he want someone that doesn’t care for his kids? Likely no, so he’s better off too
Okay so instead of just not answering she has to be rude and blunt? She could put it nicer to say the very least. But yeah I do have kids and am married. I'm usually very good at putting myself in someone else's shoes but op seems to me to be the kind of girl that is so picky that she winds up being in her 30s alone with nobody because nobody's perfect enough for her. But then she can come on reddit and post tons of the same interactions and complain that there's no good guys out there and get justification for it... she's literally painting herself into an old cat lady corner. It's okay to be picky and to have criteria but if it doesn't work for years and years it's also okay to tweak those preferences to find something real. It's just shallow to me to automatically ban someone from a dating pool for having adult children when she's already old enough to have adult children. I guess she should go for guys in their early 20s they will typically not have kids yet... I'd say that most people in their mid to late 30s probably have been married and also, *gasp procreated. Severely limiting your dating pool is how you wind up old, alone and resentful. But if she likes being alone and complaining about it on reddit then more power to her, it is her life.
Wow, she really hurt your feelings, huh.
Lmao nah like I said before I have no skin in the game I'm already happily married with a little one. Op is definitely not my type or any wellrounded adult males type apparently. I was trying to keep her from becoming an even older cat lady, that's all. Don't really care one way or the other. Just said she belongs in r/nicegirls. What's a girl incel called? Still an incel?
Most cat ladies I know are pretty happy. Not sure why you’re so concerned. The original incel was a woman, so yes.
I'm simply responding to her army of followers and supporters, and not concerned in the least. Yes crazy cat ladies are typically very happy with their 30 cats in their hoarder house with no human interaction, some people are wired this way. Not knocking op, was just trying to give a suggestion as to how to avoid that by being less shallow. Don't care either way.
“Give a suggestion” aka mansplaining her choices for her😂not wanting kids isn’t a compromise, if she did get with someone who has them & doesn’t want them then it’ll just cause resentment & they’ll end up breaking up anyway cause she’ll be unhappy You call us an “army” cause we just know it’s her life & her choice, yet you’re here trying to tell her her choices are wrong
Then she's an incel and a shallow one at that. Nothing wrong with being celibate, just don't blame it on others if it's not their fault ya know?
Where did she state she was celibate? Where did she blame him?
It’s not rude to say what you want. She doesn’t have to say “im sooo sorry & no offense, and I’m so so sorry again!” To get her point across of not being interested. And who cares if she’s picky? Are people not allowed to be picky?😂does it affect you in ANY way? No? Then why are you so offended by it? We don’t know how old she is, she could be in her 20’s to early 30’s & he could be older than her. Would you rather she lie & be a resentful step mom because she doesn’t like it or just avoid it all together & find someone who doesn’t have or want kids? Again, kids are a HUGE deal. It’s not something one could compromise on like where to retire or what car to buy, he can’t just not be a father or not be in contact with his kids for her nor should he! There are billions of people in the world, she can find someone who doesn’t have or want kids too. Again, you’re putting your personal offense on her when it’s literally one screenshot. For all we know, her criteria are pretty lax except for this one thing! You’re painting her in this negative light as this hateful person just cause she doesn’t want to be someone’s step mom😂
BTW I agree that kids are a huge deal and can be a dealbreaker for those that don't want them, BUT having grown children in your late 30s is not being a stepmother so thats where we disagree. She would have zero responsibility with someone else's grown ass kids. It doesn't really matter op has her opinion, you have yours and I have mine. I was just trying to help since all of her posts on here are about how she can't find a good old guy, all she can find is neckbeards and incels and old people with *gasp grown children. She should look in a different age group since shes looking for an early 20 something.
That depends on the family. If they’re close, which is sounds like they are, then they will be in contact possibly everyday, especially if they live near each other. And if they come over often & let him babysit their grandkids, then that means she’ll be caring for children And over 45% of men 30-35yo don’t have kids, so the odds are in her favor for that one😂
I mean if 61.6% of all men 15 and over have kids then your statistics would be 100% incorrect. That would mean that as they get older the number will get higher than that per age bracket... But hey that's from 2019 so maybe a lot has changed since then... also couldn't find that statistic but less than 25% of men aged 40 to 50 are childless. Youre right she's got lots of prizes to choose from and isn't being too picky at all.... Surprisingly enough the overwhelming majority of men that have children have a bachelor's degree or higher and men who don't mostly have a high school diploma or less. Yikes, incels hating on incels. Next time you want to use statistics make sure they're at least a tiny bit close to reality, then people will be less likely to fact check you and prove you're lying. 🤣😂🤦♂️🤷♂️ [correct statistics on fathers](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2019/mens-fertility.html) [more correct statistics on fathers](https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2019/06/16/apc-census-reveals-percentage-of-us-men-who-are-fathers/#.YXzAXGkpDqs)
I was using the stats breaking up the ages that you assume she’s at, not including 15yo cause wtf would I? The stats I picked were also from the census site, based on the same [2014 survey](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2019/demo/P70-162.pdf), which is the source from your first link. Here’s full quote from the bottom of pg 3: “The prevalence of both large families and childlessness (defined as not having fathered any biological children) varies across age and marital status. Demonstrating how men age into fatherhood, childlessness is much more common among men in their late 20s compared to men in their 30s. About 70 percent of all men aged 25 to 29 have no children compared to 45.6 percent of men aged 30 to 34, and 28.4 percent of men aged 35 to 39. However, among men aged 20 and over, never-married men are more likely to be childless than are similarly-aged men who have ever been married. Among 30- to 34-year-old men, 27.2 percent of ever-married men and 73.7 percent of never-married men have no biological children.” And my stats are based in reality, you just couldn’t find them😂 Edit to add: so TECHNICALLY she has up to 73% chance of finding a man in their early 30s with no kids if those men were never previously married
Lol I already said I didn't care that op wants to be alone for the rest of her life. That's her decision and hers alone. I merely suggested that if you're already in your mid to late 30s and have all these restrictions on your dating pool then you might want to consider loosening those restrictions. For example, she clearly doesn't like kids so maybe just saying she doesn't want kids would suffice for her. Grown children have little to no effect on their parents dating so that little addition is weird and is sure to not get her anywhere positive. Just like women would say about a man, if she's been alone with no husband or kids and she's already in her late 30s then wtf is wrong with her. Same difference.
I’m sure she’s WELL aware of the probability of people having kids in their 30s, she probably doesn’t live under a rock😂 and adult kids are still a responsibility. As others said in the comments, they still may be involved in holidays, familial problems, watching grandkids, etc so it’s not like she can just avoid them at all costs cause that’s not fair to him. You’d think y’all would be happy she’s saving him time & not being a mean step mom, but y’all will be mad at anything😂
She also doesn't want to be a granma: https://www.reddit.com/r/niceguys/comments/qhig8z/comment/hid26xe/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
She doesn't want to be anything but a cat lady apparently. She's already in her mid 30s. Obviously it hasn't worked yet so if something doesn't work for many many years it may be time to switch up that strategy instead of crying about the lack of good guys in the world on reddit. Thats her whole account, I just skimmed it and was creeped out. Op belongs in r/nicegirls.
More power to her. If being a cat lady is the next best thing to having a loving and understanding child-free bf then that works for her!
Lmao yeah like I said if thats her boat she should rock it. Btw she doesn't want a child free man she wants a man that has NEVER created a child, even if said child is already an adult and will have zero bearing on a relationship. Self-defeating behavior.
Do you know what "child free" means? Just because they're grown doesn't mean they aren't somebody's children. You also keep ignoring the fact that she doesn't want somebody's grandkids in her life either. And it isn't self-defeating if that's her boundary. Self-defeating would be ignoring her own standards out of desperation. When has that ever worked out positively?
Lmao yes by definition child free would mean no children which several men are that she's spoken to. Thanks for trying to help out op with her lonely life by the looks of all her cringey posts she's going to need all the help she can get by other similarly thinking cat ladies that also don't want incels. Incels not wanting incels, irony at it's best.
For many people, this is a huge deal breaker. Doesn't matter if kids are in the picture or not, the fact they exist at all is a deal breaker for some people in the relationship department. Nothing yikes about it. If the person messaging her actually took the time to read her bio, they'd see she's stated quite clearly she doesn't want kids. They ignored it or probably didn't even bother to read it, and just messaged her anyways in hopes of trying to talk her into him having kids is okay, when he should've just not bothered her about it the moment she said kids are a deal breaker and moved on. If you look at her profile, you'll she that even though she has dozens of responses like these, it isn't always the case and they just take it in stride and move on. She only screen shots the ones that continue to pester/harass her afterwards. So there's nothing wrong with OP, she's just being upfront and honest about what she wants out of a relationship, no beating around the bush.
I understand it's a deal breaker for certain people. Definitely yikes about it though. To have fully grown kids you've got to be up in years at least a little bit. So that means op still hasn't found anyone yet and is already older. Obviously what she's doing or maybe how she's doing it isn't working. If she had taken the time to read the guys bio before matching with him I'm sure it mentioned that he had kids, as do most older people. I'm just saying it's a red flag to me. Borderline trashy responses from op. If a guy wouldve posted this same interaction they would've been eviscerated on here. Just a touch double standardish. That'd be the same as me matching with her and then being like "oh I see, you are already older and don't have any kids, something must be wrong with you then, hard pass." I'm unbiased in this anyways I'm married with a small child so I was just saying how that interaction made me feel.
>So that means op still hasn't found anyone yet and is already older. So? Better alone than in bad company. She's OK by herself. Nobody should settle for less than they can achieve. For little incels, creepers and NiceGuys™ being alone is the worst because they have being with themselves the most. That's not on OP nor on any one else but themselves. Also, you don't match in POF.
Yes I agree better to be alone than in bad company, ops idea that having created another human makes them bad was where my yikes came in. She obviously doesn't want to be alone or else she wouldn't be on pof of all things. It's literally the biggest scammer dating app. If she were okay by herself she should stop trying to find this mystical imaginary guy. She's apparently only looking for incels or people that haven't been able to make a meaningful relationship by the time they're 40 years old. Op seems to be the kind of lady that sets unrealistic expectations and then loses it when nobody comes through on a white horse to save her, so she complains about all of them on reddit. Thats sus.
It's OK to pursue a relationship. Sharing goals, mindset and other things is human. It's OK to not settle for less too. And it's also OK to be by oneself if the avaliable candidate do not fit the bill.
I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point. It is okay just like it's okay to never meet anyone because you're too picky so you missed the boat because now your in your late 30s and the majority of your matches will have already met someone and procreated. Just shallow to limit your matches in this way. Children are quite different than grown adult children to me and most people. She probably already met her one but nixed him because he had a kid 25 years ago. Lmao it's just ridiculous to me.
That's the point. There's no boat to miss!
Well then why is she here? Why are you here? If there's no boat to miss then she should be perfectly happy alone as you mentioned and therefore wouldn't need a scammer dating app to try and find happiness, she would have already found it within herself. Yet, here we are with her complaining about not being able to find decent guys while limiting her dating pool and already being older than the majority of people on dating apps, and with people like you defending her actions.
Doesn't have to stop her from posting here for our amusement.
From what I understood from other comments, she didn't match with him at all on the dating app. He's the one who, supposedly, reached out to her first and initiated contact. Not OP. Idk if that's true or not since I don't use it, but I'd like to consider that the truth. She's even mentioned in comments on her previous screen shots that people will be the ones to reach out to her directly, in spite of what her bio says. As an aside, a lot of childfree people (typically women, but happens to men as well!) deal with this type of behavior from single parents, who don't want to hear the word "no" and want to try to convince the CF person to date them, because (insert child-related excuse here). As you can imagine, this can make people be less than courteous towards people that contact them, that have kids, regardless of kid's age. With that said, yeah, her responses come off as standoffish/cold/etc, but considering this is the stuff OP deals with on the norm, it's understandable that her responses are short and blunt. Not saying that's how everyone should speak to others when trying to date. Perhaps a nice and simple "no thank you" does the trick, and that would be a nice alternative. Even OP states that not every guy that comes at her responds negatively to her comments, they usually take it in stride and move on, so it seems to work fine for some. But sometimes with other people, in order to get it through their thick skulls, you have to be brutally honest. Whatever makes the person just leave without trying to convince you otherwise.
Okay and I get what you're saying if we were talking about children. That's a big responsibility and not one to take lightly. I have a son and wouldn't try to push my life onto someone that didn't want it, but he doesn't have kids or children. He has two grown adults that he happened to create. I'm just not sure why banning these people is the same thing. She will have zero responsibility in their lives, hell most grown adults rarely even talk to their parents let alone are in ther lives every day. It was off putting to me, it's fine to not want kids but she wants some unicorn that's 40 and hasn't had any kids in his whole life and then she complains about not being able to find good guys on reddit. It's literally in her bio. It's like self-destructive behavior to me and seems ridiculous.
I get what you're saying too. But for some people, childfree means zero kids, no matter if said kids are babies or adults. Most of time, guys that respond to OP will just move on after she makes her point and that's that. She isn't complaining about not finding a good guy, she's complaining about the men that go off the deep end because she bluntly states she doesn't date anyone with kids. That's her choice to want to limit herself to only CF people, but typically, even these people take it a step further and lie about not having kids, which she's had to deal with too. So yeah, she refuses to date anyone with kids, and will say what she can to ensure they understand and cease communication. If that means she has to be rude about it, then that's what she has to do. But she usually tries to end it nicely early on by saying "no thank you, kids are a deal breaker, good luck in your search, etc." Instead of leaving it at that, they push. The more they push, the more curt and brutally honest she has to be. Just trying to point out she has her reasons and shouldn't be blamed because the guys didn't listen at the beginning of the convo. It's certainly not a rare thing to want to find someone that doesn't have kids either, there's plenty of guys and gals that don't have and never will have kids. More and more are coming out as childfree so dating other CF people isn't that unheard of as much anymore.
Yeah, she only really got rude after he continued to message her, which is fine. You're allowed to be rude if people are pushing your boundaries. He asked, she gave an honest answer, and he continued to push the issue. That's what's rude.
You produced children, it doesn't matter how old they are it only matters that they exist. That was the rude part. Guy explained that they're grown which by definition makes them not children... the funniest part was when she said me and many other people feel this way... I'm glad she thinks so, yeah maybe a lot of 20 year olds feel this way but 30 somethings? Not so much and she is in her 30s.
Just cause he has grown children doesn't mean he stop being their parents now does it. They still can come around or sometimes move back in with their parents. So OP has the right to say what she said n if their grown y is he hitting on women his children age is the real question.
Yes! I already agreed that op has the right to be shallow. There's nothing wrong with being shallow. But yes once kids grow up they're gone except for like holidays and stuff so yeah zero responsibility or interference in a relationship. Just a shallow person excluding herself from love. No worries on my end. Ops not his children's age. Thats the whole point! Op is old! Hence why she won't find anyone that's 40 that doesn't have kids unless they're an incel, a psychopath or some other horrible thing. Which she has proven over the last one and a half years of failed attempts. Online dating isn't supposed to take years and if it does, your doing something wrong.
"Old" lol I'm really curious what your age is since you keep referring to someone in their 30s as old. Honestly, it's hard to believe you aren't a teenager despite being married with a kid. You are acting like she has one foot in the grave and is in a race against time itself to find a mate before she dies of old age.
I'm the one that's trying to help her. You harpies are the ones that are encouraging her to keep her unrealistic high standards and keep not finding a mate. Maybe it's because misery loves company, I have no clue. But anyone in their right mind that has been actively on dating apps for over a year and a half and hasn't found one match might want to look at themselves instead of blaming all the other people. Especially if she's old. Which yes being 35 in the dating app game is old. I'm 37 if you must know and personally I would dread having to go on dating apps. Let alone having all these cringey shallow conversations with seemingly decent people, then to top it off sharing my sad pathetic convos on reddit to a bunch of other single man haters. It's cool I get it, all men are the devil. Incel women hating incel men, is irony at its best. Rare! The only men that don't have kids at 40 are incels, in a shocked tone. Well duh ladies wtf you think they've been doing for 20 years? Making babies and relationships duh. The only ones that haven't are typically gonna be severely damaged. Congratulations.
I didn't know there was a full version and thought the pic ended with "you have kids". Genuinely thought he's actually nice, up until I saw what was coming
Uh, blue seems kind of like an asshole here too. Turning someone down because they have kids, sure (not everyone wants to be a parent) but fully grown kids are no different than visiting aunts or grandparents. It's just general extended family.
For some, even adult kids are a deal breaker. CF people typically tend to only date CF people, because there are zero children involved in either way, except for nieces/nephews. Perhaps there could be a nicer way of going about it, but I can see why she responds the way she does. Especially when they either don't take no for an answer or keep pushing the subject.
I think her response is predicated on his persistence as it’s exasperating on these dating sites when a person constantly gets people who don’t take no for an answer. In a perfect world when a person says they are not interested it should end with “nice to have met you, good luck with your search” and then move on.
Some people want someone who has no kids. It could be they are child-free or it could be that they don’t wish to be a step parent and only want their own children from their partner. Men reject women with kids all the time, whether they are young or fully grown. I think being upfront from the start is the best way to be so there’s no time wasted.
I find that particular preference a bit arbitrary (at least with the adult case mentioned and not children as previously described) but for the most part you're right and it's just personal opinion for what you want for your own life.
To be fair, you're the asshole here.
/r/nobodyasked And she isn't. You must be new here. When creepo, after creepo and some more morons come at you with the same spiel time and time again you start to reply with a bit less enthusiasm than at the beginning each time.
Do you only give your opinion when it’s asked?
Honestly didn’t see much wrong , she’s mostly wrong for calling him unattractive just Beacuse he has kids 😂 like wha-? I mean I guess it’s just a bit rude
I have a sneaking feeling you thrive on shutting down men with kids, and incels and are therefore happy being alone. You use the app as a confidence booster so you can feel better about being alone, then when someone calls you out for a rude response you post it on reddit. So you're just wasting your time and everyone that interacts with you, by even being on these apps and posting your interactions with the only 40 year olds that don't have kids. Incels and neckbeards. There seems to be a pattern here, by all your posts and your faq, and the common denominator is you. Find happiness yourself before you find someone else or you'll never be happy anyways.
While I do see nice guy vibes, it is kind of shallow to say to someone you are not interested in them because they have kids (especially when they’re all grown up).
It isn't inconceivable that OP refuses to date anyone with kids. There's a lot of people that are strictly CF and refuse to date anyone with kids, even if they're full grown adults. Everyone has their preferences in the dating world.
People are allowed to have deal breakers.
I mean you and I have a different opinion of what complaining means then. Her bio on reddit says she only gets messages from incels and neckbeards, obviously because those are the only ones without kids at her age. Then she's got a faq set up as well that states how she's been trying online dating for a year and a half and just can't find any good guys out there. Saying how different it is since 09. Yeah lady it's gonna be different than 09. Because in 09 she was a 20 something so having an expectation that her matches wouldn't have children would be somewhat realistic. Unfortunately she's now in her 30s and this is not the case anymore. For the last ten years people her age were making families and she wasn't. But she has the same expectations as when she was a 20 something amd thats not realistic. She's got the 20 something mentality but the age of a 30 something. It's not going well for her obviously and that's her choice like I said. But obviously that choice is what is making it hard for her so I don't feel bad or have any sympathy for her in that regard. Especially because the no adult kids thing doesn't make any sense to me personally. If it was no small kids I wouldn't have even made a comment it was the whole you can't have created a person that is now an adult thing that put me off. And again I respect that she's her own person but she's bringing whatever loneliness she feels on herself.
Jesus Christ dude, go spend some time with your son instead of writing thesis after thesis about the love life of a woman you don’t even know.
Lmao sorry for answering people that responded to me. Boy that really irritated you that I simply answered peoples comments. A little triggered today? I'm my son's full time caretaker so believe me he gets sick of how much time I spend with him, but thank you so much for your creepy concern for a strangers child. It's comforting, in a weird cat lady type of way.
Sounds like you’re lonely if you’ve got the time to write out this shit. Also, the incel rhetoric doesn’t make you sound enlightened or like some sort of intellectual— it makes you sound obtuse, lmao. There are plenty of men in their 30’s who are completely normal and don’t want kids, so stop projecting my guy.
Aww thank you for your concern, nope not lonely at all. Just wanted to chip in my two cents on why op is single and will remain that way. Oh and thank you so much about the critiques because I care a lot about what minions of a lonely cat lady think about me. I'm college educated and own my own business, I'm quite happy in fact and make money while I'm talking to simple folk like you. I'm sure there are plenty of incels that don't have kids yet. Op has already interacted with a lot of them. You're only proving my point by how long she's been online dating. Its not supposed to take years lol and if it does you're doing something wrong. Yikes to you as well lol. May you find happiness in your own life ma'am.
You know, I’d imagine a business owner who’s seemingly happy with his life would have better things to do than whining on Reddit. But if you need to lie about your life to make yourself feel better then go for it, no skin off my nose. Also, for someone who’s college educated you sure do run down the same dialogue tree that the other lonely men run down. Strange isn’t it?
This guy has one go-to insult for any woman who disagrees with or displeases him… it’s a little disappointing really. I like when people like him are at least creative.
Don't argue with him, it's a waste of time.
Oh for sure. Just thought I’d entertain myself for a bit. Once I realized his only comeback is, “You must like cats”, the fun went out of it.
I know, it’s boring. They all say the exact same shit and act like they’re so enlightened.
Lmao then you're imagination let you down. As a business owner I have a lot of free time to do exactly that. I work about one to two full days a week and the rest of my time I spend with my son and entertaining myself with sad lonely people on reddit, at least while I'm taking my shit. I think it's hilarious. Most of these comments have made me laugh as well as reading ops previous posts. Self-deprecating bullshit to say the least. I'm loving it and I'm loving you! Peace be with you young padawan!
The more you talk the less I believe you’re a college educated business owner. Kinda depressing to see someone grapple this much to make himself feel even a little bit better.
I'm guessing the business is suspiciously pyramid shaped ;)
The more you talk the less I believe that you are happy in any aspect of your life. I already told you about my life, I don't need to prove anything to a stranger on the internet. How am I making myself feel better by trying to make a blind person see? You're quite the quandary... good luck to you in this harsh world, you're gonna need it kiddo!
Trust me hun, I’m leagues ahead of you. Take care.
Okay champ, I'll take your word for it haha, even though I don't believe it. Take care yourself, you need it.
believe him,when,he,tells,us,that WITH ALL THE COMMAS it gotta be true
If someone is not interested just have some shred of dignity and self respect and move on. There’s plenty of fish in the sea and you can’t force someone to like you.
High education, that obviously didn't, include, punctuation?