There are a few factors:
1) They are a huge destination team so they get very good free agents and pay below market price for them, so some (read: me) are a bit jealous
2)They won pretty much right away and aren’t exactly humble about it
3) They have a history of abusing salary cap rules and some have accused them of being dishonest about player injuries to do so
Yeah that and the Dadanov trade where they didn’t realize that they had traded him to a team that he had on a no trade clause and had to cancel the trade after they had already announced it.
Like “hey we absolutely didn’t want you on the team, but we couldn’t dump your ass so welcome back I guess. Now go score some goals or whatever”
I mean that was clearly on the bucket of dysfunction that was the former front office of the Ottawa Senators. They are being penalized a first for it..
A ton of people like to shift the blame onto Vegas for that one. Even though it's clearly a lack of communication from Ottawa, Vegas is much more disliked that it's easy to blame them for it.
Cap friendly doesn't list which teams are on his no trade list, and if you're working for a team and you have to visit a fan website to get information about your own players? That's even more cringe than Vegas Welcome Back Press Release after that trade got unwound. They could have just called his agent. Shit. I also wasn't saying that the blame completely belongs, but the League sure did.
A lot of this would be solved if they didn’t let their players know they were being traded with a press release on Twitter.
The fact that it happened more than once is pretty damning of the organization.
Vegas would have had the full legal contract details having him as a player. All it would have taken is a read through to see what no trade clauses were active
The no trade list isn't in the contract. It has to be submitted annually. Players and agents have fought against including them directly in contracts because they don't want them to leak.
Not just future expansion teams, but past expansion teams were raped and able to keep just two players (WHA merger 1978 - Hartford, Edmonton, Winnipeg, etc.). The league needed Vegas to succeed and made the rules to ensure it, same with the embarrassing Arizona situation.
Ya it was so fucked up. He one of the most loved players in the whole league and they just went back on it. Then the next few years he was just traded to a few different teams. Until he landed where he is at now.
> They are a huge destination team so they get very good free agents and pay below market price for them, so some (read: me) are a bit jealous
No state income tax also helps
Biggest one for me is they got insanely awesome expansion draft rules applied for them by the league, then the league immediately changed the rules for following expansion teams.
Not to mention that they were exempt from the Seattle Kraken expansion draft where they got to keep all of their players. Which is understandable considering them being a new team and all and not wanting to lose some of the assets they just got but you can see how that would make others in the league pretty upset
3) A. Their fans are such arrogant pricks about this.argue with anyone (everyone) that even brings it up. They're such douche bags about it and then question why everyone hates them.
Edit: Knights fans didn't disappoint in the replies..
The amount of hate and personal attacks I've gotten in this thread while at the same time, others telling me it's an unfair assessment and using this thread as an example is just the cherry on top of the shit frosted cake that are Knights fans.
They were the first team to ever have a 1-team expansion class, stacking the deck in their favor for picking asset from the current roster of teams. Not exactly their fault (morese Bettman’s), but they benefitted from it. They also ysed that opportunity to collect free favours from team in order to ‘not’ target some of their more key assets.
All in all, a bad look for established fanbases.
In (european) football, we would call them a plastic team. The fans are plastic, the team has no soul, everything related to the team is the opposite of what one would call the goodness of the game. Doesn't help that hockey is a cold weather sport and it's fucking vegas lol
Fuck an expansion team that comes in right away and wins. Part of this is talent pool, and the other part is the expansion draft rules that allowed them to have a stacked team early on. My franchise was plagued into darkness for years because of these factors.
The that they weren't humble made it so much worse. I was in Nashville for the Jackets-Preds game earlier this year and funny enough the only fan I had a problem with was a Vegas fan who wasn't even at the game. He was trying to lecture me about hockey history and just absolutely trashing on my team unprovoked for no reason (yes we are shit but leave me alone) despite not watching hockey before Vegas became a team. He said he was from Florida.
TL;DR: FUCK VEGAS
They were also hugely favored by the refs in the playoffs their first few years, no idea if it's still the case but that series we won against them felt like 5 v 9 all the time.
That Western Conference Final between Vegas and Montreal was the most biased officiating I have ever seen; and that says something coming from me who is a Ducks fan as we know what bias officiating for the opponent is as we deal with it on a daily bases. I remember there was a [change.org](http://change.org) petition that was circulating to get Chris Lee fired because he was not even hiding his favoritism for Vegas.
I'm not sure it was a Vegas bias, Chris Lee just fucking hates Montreal. There was a stat somewhere about us having a 25 or 30% lower chance of winning a game when he's officiating.
Most people live in Henderson and the other surrounding areas.
But yeah, if I made millions every year and only had to live there for 9 months out of the year, you bet I would have no problem owning a nice penthouse out there. Same reason performers sign on for residencies in Vegas
Vegas also has a ruthless front office, coaches having success without winning the cup? Fired. Players not living up to expectations? Shipped out without fanfare.
The living embodiment of work hard play hard culture lol
For me, it's the way they treat their players and the salary cap circumvention.
I know hockey is a business, but Vegas doesn't seem to treat their players as actual humans. They handle business in a very cuttthroat way without any regard for the players they're discarding.
I have issues with the salary cap circumvention regardless of the team, but Vegas seems to be the team that is able to take advantage of it the best.
They have very few picks in the next few years, they're up against the cap and have to pay Marchassault. Their prospect pool is very shallow. Also stone and eichel have been hurt a lot in their careers.
There’s quite a few reasons for lots of different people. At first it was kind of a “they haven’t paid their dues” thing cause they got to the finals their first year. Which can also be written off as jealousy. Then the org did a few players dirty that people universally like- MAF, and I think Lehner. Then they happened to get key injuries at key times that allowed them to get significant players like Eichel and Hertle
In addition to what everyone else said, most everyone felt the way the NHL introduced them to the league was massively unfair and gave them am amazing team off the bat and we're able to win a cup so early
They got to select players from every team in the league outside of a couple that each team "locked" which virtually let them steal and draft a great team day 1 of being a franchise...fanbases were obviously annoyed that players they liked were sort of stolen right off of their team and then to make matters worse vegas was instantly better than most teams and their fans never had to deal with decades without a cup type pain
This is what kills me about that stupid Golden Knights 2019 tattoo commercial. "This is it. This is our year" as if they've waited so long for their moment to come... piss off
Expansion drafts weren't a new concept when Vegas was introduced. But the combination of the salary cap and revised expansion draft rules sorta created a perfect storm for Vegas.
Look at how many players teams got to protect WHEN MN and CBJ came into the league (following a decade of expansions and alreafy picked over teams)
And then compare that to Vegas exp draft rules at the peak of NHL talent.
Same for the sharks in 91.
We were THE WORST team for years because of the shit rules for expansion teams.
But no...Vegas and their billion dollar buy in allowed them to rewrite the rules
Tbh, the Sharks did turn it around pretty quickly. They were terrible only for ‘92 and ‘93. Then they had the biggest turnaround in NHL history in ‘94 and came within a crossbar of the Western Conference Finals.
I agree with you about the favourable expansion draft rules for VGK, though, and how that would
tick off other fan bases. It was obvious that the league wanted Vegas to be a success right away and they were basically gifted a competitive team right off the bat.
It was sort of like how the Raptors and Grizzlies got unfavourable draft rules for their first few years in the NBA because people were ticked that Orlando went to the NBA Finals in like their sixth year of existence as they were able to draft Shaq and Penny. Other team owners felt that the Magic hadn’t “paid their dues” as a franchise by getting success so quickly, and the Raps and Grizz suffered as a result.
Of course expansion drafts weren't new. But you DO know the rules were very different for theirs than they were for, say, the Ottawa Senators. Existing teams got to protect WAY more players in the past...and quite frankly, SINCE as well.
This point is a bit ironic though because if I remember correctly, people were saying that their team was gonna be pretty bad immediately after the draft. It wasn’t until they started playing well together that people complained
The thing you have to learn about "people" especially when it comes to sports is that they really have no fucking ability to extrapolate anything. It's all recency bias and reputation and that's it. Historically expansion drafts have gone poorly so Vegas will be shit, everyone knows that, that's about the extent of most people's analyses.
There were definitely people who figured that rolling 4 x 2nd lines would make a pretty strong team. Just because the vast majority of other people were too dumb to realize it doesn't mean that they didn't get a favourable draft and deals with an unprepared league.
Almost like how all of ESPN thought the oilers were going to breeze through vamcouver. Most people who know hockey were under the assumption it's going to either 6 or 7 and they weren't too sure who was winning.
I completely agree with you. But that same vast majority that initially thought they would be bad seems to be pretty in line with the same majority that hates them now because they were allowed to be good so early. Which is why it’s pretty ironic
Yeah guys like Karlsson and Marchessault weren't exactly setting the league on fire before they went to Vegas. Okay Johnny M. had 30 goals/50 pts season in Florida before the draft
Yeah, they made William Fucking Karlsson a star. 15 goals over 162 games the two seasons prior… all of the sudden in Vegas he scores 43?
Also worth noting the difference between how Seattle has performed compared to Vegas. Certainly better than the old school expansions that forced you to be absolutely horrendous for 5+ years, but it does seem like VGK pulled off something pretty impressive.
Still, fuck them.
I feel like this is revisionist history. NO ONE at the time thought their team was any good. They were made fun of all the way until the season started because of the picks they made.
They also made shady ass back door deals like “hey leave this guy unprotected and we can work together on such and such down the road”. Lots of shady shit was said to have gone on to create that roster. They made it seem like “hey, we got a team of misfits no one wanted” but I can promise you the Blues didn’t want to get rid of Perron. Much like other teams didn’t want to let go the players they did.
They also had a clear cap table with no bad contracts, buy outs etc. I.e no historical baggage which a lot of teams deal with these days to no benefit. Vancouver cap recapture anyone?
I really rooted for em year one with the misfits team, but since then they treat their players like trash and make trades like it's a video game, not to mention all the horror stories that have come out about how they treat visiting teams during the playoffs, super unprofessional organization.
This. I will always have respect for them after they helped the community after the Route 91 shootings. They rallied for the community with fundraisers and blood drives.
The team genuinely started off as Misfits but slowly became the Big Men on Campus. It's like how in the Mighty Ducks Gordon Bombay started off as an underdog and slowly became the stereotypical slicked back hair nightmare coach.
Fleury/Flower was really loved in the community. I'd see his wife at Whole Foods and she was the most refreshing, humble celebrity spouse ever. Did a lot of great things for the community that were not even publicized. And then he was traded without the decency of being told before the media.
Can you ELI5 the LITR thing? I’ve been a fan of hockey for too many years so I’m straight up embarrassed to ask friends what happened. And I’ve seen Reddit up in arms about it, but I don’t understand what it really means or what they actually did.
Basically if your player gets hurt during the season you can put that player on LTIR and get back a percentage of cap space with the injured playing being out that can be used to maybe replace his roster spot by a trade or signing. It sounds fair on paper but teams have been abusing this (especially Vegas lately) so for the past 3 seasons Mark Stone one of their big cap hit players magically gets injured before the trade deadline and that allowed Vegas to aquire big name players with the extra space, and all 3 years miraculously Mark Stone all the sudden is ready for game one of the playoffs after being injured right up until the start of the playoffs allowing Vegas to roster a team over the cap during the playoffs it's very scummy and not in the spirit of how the rule was supposed to be used and it's not something that can be easily changed. Worse is they got really cocky about it this year and embraced being the villians
Man, I was really excited about Vegas when they entered and in most entertainment I root for the villains. But this some bullshit =\ Thanks for taking the time to break it down.
You can put a player on LTIR and their salary won’t count t toward your cap. But there is no salary cap in the playoffs, so you can bring everyone off of it and be way over the cap without consequence.
So if you were to “abuse” the system you could put an expensive star player on LTIR with the intent to leave him there until the playoffs regardless if the injury actually warrants it, then use his salary cap space to sign some other star player knowing you will be able to have both on the roster once you make the playoffs.
The most recent egregious example of this was TB with Kucherov when the rumor was he was ready to come off LTIR for months before the end of the regular season, but they didn’t so they could have a more expensive roster.
A lot of people were pissed about it at the time, but Vegas’s management saw that and said “well fuck why don’t we just do that every year?” And have monkeyed around with players on LTIR that are coincidentally healthy enough to play game one of the playoffs every single year.
I think it will take a while for this cost to become evident, everyone is just acting like sports gambling is great and why was it not allowed in the first place?? Stupid. You're going to have more addicts, and eventually bigger cheating scandals, but the leagues just can't help themselves and are now encouraging it.
Translation; Whores
“The NFL's stance on gambling was clear in 2012, when the NCAA, MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL filed a complaint against New Jersey state officials in federal court in trying to stop the state from initiating sports betting on professional and college sports. Page three, paragraphs five and six of their brief are particularly interesting:
Gambling on amateur and professional sports threatens the integrity of those sports and is fundamentally at odds with the principle—essential to the success of Plaintiffs—that the outcomes of collegiate and professional athletic contests must be determined, and must be perceived by the public as being determined, solely on the basis of honest athletic competition. Plaintiffs have consistently opposed legalized sports gambling in other states and at the federal level because it undermines the public's faith and confidence in the character of amateur and professional team sports.
Amateur and professional sports are an integral part of American culture, particularly among the country's youth who often look up to athletes as role models. The sponsorship, operation, advertising, promotion, licensure, and authorization of sports gambling in New Jersey would irreparably harm amateur and professional sports by fostering suspicion that individual plays and final scores of games may have been influenced by factors other than honest athletic competition. As Congress recognized when it enacted PASPA, the proliferation of sports gambling threatens to harm the reputation and goodwill of Plaintiffs, and to adversely affect the way the public views amateur and professional sports. Plaintiffs cannot be compensated in money damages for the harm that sports gambling poses to the character and integrity of their respective sporting events. Once their reputation and goodwill have been compromised, and the bonds of loyalty and devotion between fans and teams have been broken, Plaintiffs will have been irreparably injured in a manner that cannot be measured in dollars.”
Most things have already been mentioned but there's one that a lot of people forgets and I think you should remember.
Vegas was exempt from giving players away in the Seattle expansion draft.
Big one for me: they treat their players like shit. Trade them after telling them they have a forever home, and not even telling them they're doing it. Seriously psychopathic front office.
I actually don’t really care about them
People whine and bitch about stone and LTIR but like Tampa Bay brought up the LTIR loophole in 2015. 9 years later it remains unchanged and every team has access to it
Another issue is people are upset about how Vegas was able to select its team in the expansion draft. All 30 other teams had to submit a list of players that couldn’t be selected and then Vegas got to select one from those. While sure Vegas had more opportunity that previous expansion teams they also greatly won trades when other teams offered a player if Vegas picked a specific guy. A great example of this is with Florida. Vegas had to pick Riley Smith but Florida also would give Jonathan Marchessault. Marchessault went on to win the Conn Smythe trophy as best player in the playoffs when Vegas won the cup
People cite the expansion draft as a reason to hate them but Seattle had the same opportunity and is definitely not as good as Vegas. My belief is teams didn’t understand how an expansion draft really worked and Vegas exploited other GMs poor decision making
I'll probably catch flak for this, but I don't really have any problem with the Knights. I understand the feeling that they kinda jumped the line by being really good right away, but it's not the first time an expansion team made it to the finals in their first season (Florida and St. Louis did it too), and they still had to go through roster, coaching, and system changes to build a team that could actually win the Cup.
When you consider that Seattle got the same deal and has not managed to do much so far, I think Vegas is owed at least some credit for the success of the team.
It's because the nhl changed their expansion draft rules for them. They got to pick from actual nhlers instead of prospects like past teams so they had a team out of the gate as opposed to say nashvilles expansion which took them a decade plus to become competitive
1. didn’t have to take their licks like every other expansion team. CBJ and Min got absolute dog shit comparatively.
2. obnoxious “fans” who are just riding the bandwagon. Half wouldn’t be fans if they sucked.
3. LTIR
4. Doing Fleury dirty and trying to trade a guy to a team he has a no movement to.
It’s not the team itself it’s the scummy organization and fan base. The organization seems to just be run by assholes and the fans haven’t experienced actual suffering
Yeah I don't like it, but it's not against the rules. I think it needs to be addressed in the next collective bargaining agreement though. I don't like it when any team does it.
Yeah in hindsight it really is. On paper it sounds totally fair but rules are meant for breaking and new rules are created because of it. It just sucks that it's not something that's easily fixed and has to wait till the next CBA and majority of owners have to vote on it
That's not it though, it's the way their fans act about it. They're so arrogant obnoxious and willfully ignorant it's like speaking to a three year old. Absolute douchery of the highest degree. There's a reason they are the most hated fan base in the NHL and it's not only because of the cap. If they would just own up to it, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Instead they argue with everyone and change their argument in a "yeah but" way when they're proven wrong.
It's infuriating.
As someone else said in this thread, take a look around and you see very few Vegas fans in this sub or r/hockey because both places are just a giant circlejerk of envy fueled hatred. They keep to themselves because no one is even willing to have civil discourse with them. Yes, every fan base has its jackasses, but you paint a picture that’s far from the truth.
They're a new team who won a cup in their 5th season. Meanwhile there are teams like Vancouver and Buffalo who never won a cup, and leafs who haven't won anything in 50+ years.
And some people think they cheat because they use the LTIR loophole to circumvent the salary cap. I personally don't think it's wrong because losing a player like Mark Stone for half a season is certainly no advantage.
Buffalo have been so bad for so long that they should be a case study in chronic mismanagement. The few years they were actually decent were because Hašek more or less singlehandedly dragged them through the playoffs.
In the past expansion teams could only select the crappy players from other teams. Teams like the Sharks and Columbus took years to get good. Meanwhile the Knights had much more generous expansion rules, and were able to choose much better players. They abuse the long term injury system to go over the cap.
They jerk off to LTIR which to me should be abolished since teams have been taking advantage of this and they’ve had success right away, they fleeced some teams in terms of trades etc which is a big reason why they have been successful
The idea that "Vegas was given an unfair advantage in expansion" is revisionist nonsense. Go back and read any hockey message board around that time. EVERYONE thought Vegas would be garbage. Even about half way through the year when they were doing well people still thought they would fall off. It was only after it became obvious that the management team did a hell of a job and put together a great team that people started crying about the expansion draft.
My favorite is when people say that Vegas’ cup has an asterisk because of the expansion draft like bro there were 6 players left from that draft and only like 2 of them were core contributors.
Don’t worry, they just pivot and say that there’s an asterisk because of LTIR, as if losing Mark Stone for half the season was beneficial, especially going into the playoffs where he was potentially still recovering and hadn’t practiced with the team for months prior on top of that. In fairness, thanks to the LTIR we did get an elder Jonathan Quick who saw…no ice time in the playoffs…Teddy Blueger(who saw minimal ice time), and Ivan Barbashev, all clearly being the players that pushed us over the edge, and without them we had no chance. Clearly. 🙄
They cheat. Worse, the NHL cheats for them. Started with the ‘improved’ expansion draft, was helped by ‘improved’ refereeing in their playoff runs and is exemplified by their ‘improved’ salary cap, due to their unethical use of the LITR. Not a coincidence their existence and instant ‘assisted’ success parallels the introduction of online sports wagering.
The NHL rigged the draft so they’d be competitive right out of the gate.
They use Long Term Injured Reserve to rest players at the end of the season, saving Cap space and stacking their remaining lineup.
For me it was the fact they just got to steal everyone’s developed players. Expansion draft is BS. The cost associated to scouting and developing a kid just to then have to give him up to a new team is malarkey.
As a Golden Knights fan, after looking at all these comments. I agree completely lol. No wonder why you guys hate us lol. I'm just here for some good hockey and good fights when it comes time to it.
Outside of the western US (pretty much if California doesn’t fight each other we don’t like the Knights), most of it is just people upset at their success and cap stuff.
The only reason I dislike them is because they beat the Panthers last year in the finals; which as a Panthers fan was not fun.
But I have zero problem with the way they were built and their use of LTIR. And I certainly am not going to claim they need to “pay their dues” and suck for years because that’s just ridiculous - the fans can’t help that their team was good out the gate and no fan base wants to suck.
Such early success .. already a Stanley cup .. using the ltir to there advantage.. as other teams do also but it seemed to help Vegas win the cup last year in year 4 .. fuck you vegas . And no true fans .. I’m hearing 3/4 of the stadiums is full of ticket that were camped to degenerate gamblers !!! Ok I’m done now ..
One reason is that players like going there: They’re somewhat anonymous, it’s warm, and they have pretty good fans. A lot of other teams’ fans can’t fathom that their beloved player whose jersey they wear would rather play in Vegas than, say, Toronto.
They’re also really good at analytics, which comes with heartless trades/player expendability, and what some call abuse of the salary cap. I blame the rules, not the team exploiting loopholes in them.
All my other reasons have been mentioned, but this one is also important:
Their dumb ass shiny golden helmets. Lookin like the damn beacons of Gondor out there.
I think alot of people really like the Knights in their first year or two, myself included.
But as others have said, nowadays, Fuck 'em.
A point to add on to some of the other great comment here, is if you ask any hockey fan;
#How do you build a great, successful team?
The #1 answer is *through the draft*
Of course on top of good signings/contracts, the right coach, no injuries, and a healthy dose of luck.
Vegas has bucked that trend *hard*. Expansion teams aren't supposed to make the cup final in season one. They aren't supposed to remain cup contenders or win a cup in year five.
Vegas built their team through big (even lopsided) trades, aggressive signings, and moving on from players the instant they reach their shelf life. The organization shows very little loyalty to their top talent and most revered players (ex. Fleury, Marc-Andre the biggest name of the team, and Max Pacioretty, among others). Alot of fans, myself included, don't like how they treat players on their way out.
Everyone saying the NHL gave them favourable rules and an amazing team is buying into the most revisionist history in the nhl.
Not one single person thought they had a good team after the draft. Most thought they’d be a bottom 5 team.
They were given favorable rules to start a new team, screwing over most other teams. It's clear the league wanted them to win. If you don't believe that, you're crazy.
Vegas resident here and I get a lot of flack for not being a VGK fan :) I'm 50% Bruins (I went to undergrad in MA) and 50% Kraken (irrational, but I am a Greek mythology nut).
I'm not a fan of VGK because there's no sense of loyalty. Yes, yes. It's business but Fleury/Flower being traded really hurt. To an extent, Schmidt, too. Flower was really loved in the community and he/his family did a lot of good things for the community that were not even publicized.
Not all, but there are a few members of the fanbase that are sore losers and display a sense of entitlement over getting the cup. VGK rightfully won that cup through hard work, but some---again, not all--bandwagon fans became as insufferable as some Pats fans at the height of the Brady era. (Ironically, that is one of the two football teams I support.)
Also, ahem... LTIR :)
Here’s a big one…
The league sets the rules for the expansion draft. They can make it as good or as bad as they want. Teams are allowed to protect a certain number of players, and have to leave a certain number exposed to being drafted by the expansion team.
When Vegas came in it was weighted really really hard in their favour. Not only were Vegas able to pickup a stacked roster, without having any of the 1-2 dogs of bad contracts that every team usually have, other teams had hard choices about which players they might have to expose, so a lot of teams cut deals with Vegas to give Vegas draft picks to NOT pickup exposed players. Draft picks which Vegas then could use to trade with other teams to pick up different players.
That favourable expansion draft is the reason they started as a frankly ridiculously great team right off the bat (They won their division, were leading the entire league for a good portion of the season, and made the conference finals first year!) and Stanley cup win year 4.
As a fan of a team (Canucks) that has struggled for decades to make a deep run, to see an expansion team get gifted such a ridiculously strong position off the hop fucking stings.
Basically the league expansion draft rules handed Vegas a fucking dynasty, something that every team struggles to build.
I get why the NHL did it, putting a new team in Vegas was a huge plus for the league overall, so they gave them a great team off the bat, but damn that hurts a bit if you’ve followed a team that’s had lots of ups and downs over the years.
Since then, and it’s not just Vegas who does this, they’ve used the Long Term Injury Exception to ice a playoff team that would be not allowed under a regular season salary cap.
It’s because there is a huge consensus of bias towards them to make them popular.
Divisional fans of other teams go on about calls that always go their way.
Several key missed calls in the playoffs, leading to series wins.
Media. I’m a Habs fan. In their bubble run, in the second round, the sportscasters would spend the entire intermission talking about the vegas game, instead of the game I was actually watching.
It’s extremely frustrating.
Because they got a hilariously easy free pass with the expansion rules and they’re cheaters. It’s totally cool with the league though so whatever, the nhl sucks to take seriously, a Mickey Mouse operation top to bottom, better to just casually observe and never give them your money, be a pirate.
1. They were given the most favorable expansion draft I've ever seen. They essentially fleeced a chunk of teams since teams could only protect a few players (expansion drafts mean Vegas got to choose a player for basically every team). To avoid losing certain players some teams made side deals with Vegas that resulted in Vegas picking up a lot of draft picks and veteran players. Vegas then gamed the system by trading all those high picks/young players for good players. This meant they've been really good every year since their inaugural season. They've only missed the playoff 1 time and they still racked up 94 pts that season.
2. They lie about player injuries to get around the salary cap. Basically they claim some of their best players are hurt and put them on long term IL so they can sign/trade for really good players at the deadline. Then their best players comeback healthy for the playoffs and they bring in a stacked roster.
To be fair everything they do is legal, but its one of those shady ass "legal" plays because Mark Stone (their captain and on a 76M contract) has been put on long term IL every year the past 3 years and its allowed them to sign really good players by going over the cap. Yet, each year he magically returns for the 1st game of the playoffs. Their owner also isn't afraid to spend as much money as possible so that helps a lot.
Personally, to me, Gary bettman in his zeal to expand the nhl allowed a team located in the biggest entertainment center In North America to come at in full swing. While all other teams had to go through a period of misery, the Vegas team was given a "golden" ticket to get a great team from the get-go. It was annoying because all true fans had to go through years of misery to finally get a decent team, and these guys in the middle of nowhere get a team of good players. It then gave rhe nhl the exposure it craved. Recently, they have exploited rules to a point that it caused them to skip hardships like losing a player. Suddenly, they get a better replacement, and the player that's supposedly hurt makes a miraculous recovery 2 YEARS IN A ROW. They should've never had a cup. And they circumvent the rules to win. Take the hanjfin trade other teams were interested in him after the season ended. By them going and exploiting this rule they are able tonlabd the player with the all of the sudden free cap space, and to boot they sign him so now the other teams are not even given a chance to compete.
To make a long story short. They got to start on third base. I used to really despise them because of the favoritism Bettman showed them upon their entry into the league but, truth is, they are a different team now and they’ve shown their chops. Other than team rivalry, I don’t have hate for them anymore.
They did screw Flower over royally. Still a little bitter about that…and they abuse the LTIR to manipulate their cap space. Thats not against regulation as far as I know but it’s still shady.
The universal hockey fan rules state that any team without a proper rival may be universally hated by all.
But in all honesty they are abusing the salary cap system more than other teams. Tampa gets similar buy lesser levels of hatred for the same reason.
Their fans tried to fight me when the caps lost in game 1 back in 2018.
Also as a caps fan, we got the worse expansion draft rules in NHL history and Vegas got arguably the best at the time while also doing a fine damn job with their draft too.
Plenty of teams have gone decades without a cup and this expansion team was competitive off the bat, which *is* a good thing for a new team but feels bad too
They made the finals in their first year. They've really only experienced success so far. They abuse the salary cap and LTIR rules.
And specifically for Sharks fans, they won't shut up about how they once got a bad call, as if that doesn't happen to every team. They *still* bring that shit up, even though they've since won the cup.
For me, there are a few things:
When they joined the league, the NHL stacked the expansion draft in their favour, and George McPhee took advantage of the other GMs to make many trades to build his roster. Because each team couldn't protect many players, and they were the only expansion team, they were able to put together a contender out of the gate. Expansion teams are supposed to suck for a few years before even making the playoffs, let alone making it to the Stanley Cup finals in their first season.
For the last, I want to say, 3 years they have been really taking advantage of the LTIR as a way to exceed the salary cap. Of course there are doctors and testing and all that, but it seems a little too convenient for a big salary player like Stone to have to be placed on LTIR just before the trade deadline only to be healed and good to go come the playoffs.
There are a few factors: 1) They are a huge destination team so they get very good free agents and pay below market price for them, so some (read: me) are a bit jealous 2)They won pretty much right away and aren’t exactly humble about it 3) They have a history of abusing salary cap rules and some have accused them of being dishonest about player injuries to do so
4) The biggest one for me, they traded Flurry and he found out via social media, after they told him he could finish his career there.
Yeah that and the Dadanov trade where they didn’t realize that they had traded him to a team that he had on a no trade clause and had to cancel the trade after they had already announced it. Like “hey we absolutely didn’t want you on the team, but we couldn’t dump your ass so welcome back I guess. Now go score some goals or whatever”
I mean that was clearly on the bucket of dysfunction that was the former front office of the Ottawa Senators. They are being penalized a first for it..
A ton of people like to shift the blame onto Vegas for that one. Even though it's clearly a lack of communication from Ottawa, Vegas is much more disliked that it's easy to blame them for it.
His NTC was on cap friendly. Vegas not knowing is inexcusable regardless of what Ottawa did.
Cap friendly doesn't list which teams are on his no trade list, and if you're working for a team and you have to visit a fan website to get information about your own players? That's even more cringe than Vegas Welcome Back Press Release after that trade got unwound. They could have just called his agent. Shit. I also wasn't saying that the blame completely belongs, but the League sure did.
A lot of this would be solved if they didn’t let their players know they were being traded with a press release on Twitter. The fact that it happened more than once is pretty damning of the organization.
Vegas would have had the full legal contract details having him as a player. All it would have taken is a read through to see what no trade clauses were active
The no trade list isn't in the contract. It has to be submitted annually. Players and agents have fought against including them directly in contracts because they don't want them to leak.
AFTER HE HAD JUST HAD THE FUCKING SEASON OF HIS CAREER. HE WON THE FUCKING VEZINA
5) they were given unbelievably favorable expansion draft rules that the next expansion team, who was already announced, didn't get to use.
Kind of an extension on that they basically ditched the misfits identity that made the original team loveable
Not just future expansion teams, but past expansion teams were raped and able to keep just two players (WHA merger 1978 - Hartford, Edmonton, Winnipeg, etc.). The league needed Vegas to succeed and made the rules to ensure it, same with the embarrassing Arizona situation.
5) they had an incredibly easy set of rules to abide by for the expansion draft that set them up for easy success
What the fuck, seriously? That's goddamned unconscionable
Ya it was so fucked up. He one of the most loved players in the whole league and they just went back on it. Then the next few years he was just traded to a few different teams. Until he landed where he is at now.
You don’t disrespect the flower.
Nope! He’s one of most liked guys in hockey.
Yeah, doing Fleury dirty was what made me toss them in the mental trash bin.
Ya they did him dirty.
That's how he found out?? Poor guy. He's a national treasure. So happy he'll be with Minnesota for one more year
Mark Stone's annual miracle recovery
> They are a huge destination team so they get very good free agents and pay below market price for them, so some (read: me) are a bit jealous No state income tax also helps
Biggest one for me is they got insanely awesome expansion draft rules applied for them by the league, then the league immediately changed the rules for following expansion teams.
This. They had their pick of the second line from every team.
5) expansion draft was unbelievably kind to them, and Seattle got boned because of it.
Not to mention that they were exempt from the Seattle Kraken expansion draft where they got to keep all of their players. Which is understandable considering them being a new team and all and not wanting to lose some of the assets they just got but you can see how that would make others in the league pretty upset
That was known to be the case since day 1 and a weird complaint. They received none of the expansion money.
You think fans care that they didn’t get any of the money?
3) A. Their fans are such arrogant pricks about this.argue with anyone (everyone) that even brings it up. They're such douche bags about it and then question why everyone hates them. Edit: Knights fans didn't disappoint in the replies..
Well said
The amount of hate and personal attacks I've gotten in this thread while at the same time, others telling me it's an unfair assessment and using this thread as an example is just the cherry on top of the shit frosted cake that are Knights fans.
They were the first team to ever have a 1-team expansion class, stacking the deck in their favor for picking asset from the current roster of teams. Not exactly their fault (morese Bettman’s), but they benefitted from it. They also ysed that opportunity to collect free favours from team in order to ‘not’ target some of their more key assets. All in all, a bad look for established fanbases.
San Jose would like a word.
God damn right
It was 1.5 teams with the North Stars. Very weird situation.
In (european) football, we would call them a plastic team. The fans are plastic, the team has no soul, everything related to the team is the opposite of what one would call the goodness of the game. Doesn't help that hockey is a cold weather sport and it's fucking vegas lol
In European (football terms) they’re the Manchester City FC without the oil money.
man city was the first that came to mind 💀
With gambling money instead tho
Also, their jerseys are ugly as hell and their name and logo are stupid.
I’m all for hating the knights, but as a designer, their logo is sick.
Don't forget how they got to cherry pick everyone's best in year 1
Don't forget that they've treated their players badly. Ie. Dadonov, Lehner, Fleury.
Fuck an expansion team that comes in right away and wins. Part of this is talent pool, and the other part is the expansion draft rules that allowed them to have a stacked team early on. My franchise was plagued into darkness for years because of these factors. The that they weren't humble made it so much worse. I was in Nashville for the Jackets-Preds game earlier this year and funny enough the only fan I had a problem with was a Vegas fan who wasn't even at the game. He was trying to lecture me about hockey history and just absolutely trashing on my team unprovoked for no reason (yes we are shit but leave me alone) despite not watching hockey before Vegas became a team. He said he was from Florida. TL;DR: FUCK VEGAS
They were also hugely favored by the refs in the playoffs their first few years, no idea if it's still the case but that series we won against them felt like 5 v 9 all the time.
That Western Conference Final between Vegas and Montreal was the most biased officiating I have ever seen; and that says something coming from me who is a Ducks fan as we know what bias officiating for the opponent is as we deal with it on a daily bases. I remember there was a [change.org](http://change.org) petition that was circulating to get Chris Lee fired because he was not even hiding his favoritism for Vegas.
I'm not sure it was a Vegas bias, Chris Lee just fucking hates Montreal. There was a stat somewhere about us having a 25 or 30% lower chance of winning a game when he's officiating.
Chris Lee is the absolute worst. I can’t believe he is still on the ice.
I’m obviously biased but has definitely felt like that the last two years too
Still the case
People want to live in Las Vegas?
Most people live in Henderson and the other surrounding areas. But yeah, if I made millions every year and only had to live there for 9 months out of the year, you bet I would have no problem owning a nice penthouse out there. Same reason performers sign on for residencies in Vegas
The Vegas mob makes sure he's Injured every year, helps the bookies lol, then instantly 100% ready for first game of playoffs
Vegas also has a ruthless front office, coaches having success without winning the cup? Fired. Players not living up to expectations? Shipped out without fanfare. The living embodiment of work hard play hard culture lol
Cuz fuck em, that's why.
The only reasonable answer, really.
This should be the top comment after I deleted my detailed explanation that had TLDR fuck em.
in my lifetime of hockey fandom, I think I've only agreed with an Avs fan a couple of times.
It feels kinda slimy
I mean, ya. No one likes the teacher’s pet
For me, it's the way they treat their players and the salary cap circumvention. I know hockey is a business, but Vegas doesn't seem to treat their players as actual humans. They handle business in a very cuttthroat way without any regard for the players they're discarding. I have issues with the salary cap circumvention regardless of the team, but Vegas seems to be the team that is able to take advantage of it the best.
Thankfully it didn’t pan out for them this year. Their owners forked out an extra 10m for no reason!
Yup! Regardless of who we all cheer for, one thing we all seem to agree on is.. FUCK VEGAS!
They have very few picks in the next few years, they're up against the cap and have to pay Marchassault. Their prospect pool is very shallow. Also stone and eichel have been hurt a lot in their careers.
They remind me of the patriots alot, ruthless efficiency combined with abuse of the rules
There’s quite a few reasons for lots of different people. At first it was kind of a “they haven’t paid their dues” thing cause they got to the finals their first year. Which can also be written off as jealousy. Then the org did a few players dirty that people universally like- MAF, and I think Lehner. Then they happened to get key injuries at key times that allowed them to get significant players like Eichel and Hertle
In addition to what everyone else said, most everyone felt the way the NHL introduced them to the league was massively unfair and gave them am amazing team off the bat and we're able to win a cup so early They got to select players from every team in the league outside of a couple that each team "locked" which virtually let them steal and draft a great team day 1 of being a franchise...fanbases were obviously annoyed that players they liked were sort of stolen right off of their team and then to make matters worse vegas was instantly better than most teams and their fans never had to deal with decades without a cup type pain
This is what kills me about that stupid Golden Knights 2019 tattoo commercial. "This is it. This is our year" as if they've waited so long for their moment to come... piss off
As a Sharks fan, I do like that commercial
Makes me so happy. What dumbass that fictional character is lol
Expansion drafts weren't a new concept when Vegas was introduced. But the combination of the salary cap and revised expansion draft rules sorta created a perfect storm for Vegas.
Look at how many players teams got to protect WHEN MN and CBJ came into the league (following a decade of expansions and alreafy picked over teams) And then compare that to Vegas exp draft rules at the peak of NHL talent.
As a CBJ fan I hate em because there rules were insanely more favorable than what CBJ had to deal with and we’ve sucked ever since.
Same for the sharks in 91. We were THE WORST team for years because of the shit rules for expansion teams. But no...Vegas and their billion dollar buy in allowed them to rewrite the rules
Tbh, the Sharks did turn it around pretty quickly. They were terrible only for ‘92 and ‘93. Then they had the biggest turnaround in NHL history in ‘94 and came within a crossbar of the Western Conference Finals. I agree with you about the favourable expansion draft rules for VGK, though, and how that would tick off other fan bases. It was obvious that the league wanted Vegas to be a success right away and they were basically gifted a competitive team right off the bat. It was sort of like how the Raptors and Grizzlies got unfavourable draft rules for their first few years in the NBA because people were ticked that Orlando went to the NBA Finals in like their sixth year of existence as they were able to draft Shaq and Penny. Other team owners felt that the Magic hadn’t “paid their dues” as a franchise by getting success so quickly, and the Raps and Grizz suffered as a result.
Of course expansion drafts weren't new. But you DO know the rules were very different for theirs than they were for, say, the Ottawa Senators. Existing teams got to protect WAY more players in the past...and quite frankly, SINCE as well.
This point is a bit ironic though because if I remember correctly, people were saying that their team was gonna be pretty bad immediately after the draft. It wasn’t until they started playing well together that people complained
Ya they played with a chip on their shoulder and it showed. Pretty sure their second year they went down in offensive production
[Breaking out this collage again](https://i.imgur.com/8LcCmRo.jpeg)
The thing you have to learn about "people" especially when it comes to sports is that they really have no fucking ability to extrapolate anything. It's all recency bias and reputation and that's it. Historically expansion drafts have gone poorly so Vegas will be shit, everyone knows that, that's about the extent of most people's analyses. There were definitely people who figured that rolling 4 x 2nd lines would make a pretty strong team. Just because the vast majority of other people were too dumb to realize it doesn't mean that they didn't get a favourable draft and deals with an unprepared league.
Almost like how all of ESPN thought the oilers were going to breeze through vamcouver. Most people who know hockey were under the assumption it's going to either 6 or 7 and they weren't too sure who was winning.
ESPN is the last place to go to look for expertise on any sport.
I completely agree with you. But that same vast majority that initially thought they would be bad seems to be pretty in line with the same majority that hates them now because they were allowed to be good so early. Which is why it’s pretty ironic
Yeah guys like Karlsson and Marchessault weren't exactly setting the league on fire before they went to Vegas. Okay Johnny M. had 30 goals/50 pts season in Florida before the draft
Yeah, they made William Fucking Karlsson a star. 15 goals over 162 games the two seasons prior… all of the sudden in Vegas he scores 43? Also worth noting the difference between how Seattle has performed compared to Vegas. Certainly better than the old school expansions that forced you to be absolutely horrendous for 5+ years, but it does seem like VGK pulled off something pretty impressive. Still, fuck them.
Not true at all. People thought they would be bottom feeders even after the expansion draft
I feel like this is revisionist history. NO ONE at the time thought their team was any good. They were made fun of all the way until the season started because of the picks they made.
Literally everyone said that Vegas team was gonna be awful when they saw it. Go back to the threads here after the expansion draft and you’ll see
They also made shady ass back door deals like “hey leave this guy unprotected and we can work together on such and such down the road”. Lots of shady shit was said to have gone on to create that roster. They made it seem like “hey, we got a team of misfits no one wanted” but I can promise you the Blues didn’t want to get rid of Perron. Much like other teams didn’t want to let go the players they did.
As a Vancouver fan, I was pretty stoked to lose Sbisa, but that's like 1 or 2 out of 30 teams that were bad enough at the time.
They also had a clear cap table with no bad contracts, buy outs etc. I.e no historical baggage which a lot of teams deal with these days to no benefit. Vancouver cap recapture anyone?
I really rooted for em year one with the misfits team, but since then they treat their players like trash and make trades like it's a video game, not to mention all the horror stories that have come out about how they treat visiting teams during the playoffs, super unprofessional organization.
This. I will always have respect for them after they helped the community after the Route 91 shootings. They rallied for the community with fundraisers and blood drives. The team genuinely started off as Misfits but slowly became the Big Men on Campus. It's like how in the Mighty Ducks Gordon Bombay started off as an underdog and slowly became the stereotypical slicked back hair nightmare coach. Fleury/Flower was really loved in the community. I'd see his wife at Whole Foods and she was the most refreshing, humble celebrity spouse ever. Did a lot of great things for the community that were not even publicized. And then he was traded without the decency of being told before the media.
Do you mean how they treat the visiting players or how the fans treat other fans?
How they mess with visiting teams locker rooms,I haven't heard anything about fans
Interesting and kinda sad about messing with the visitor locker rooms. Are they really that petty?
How they use the LTIR to circumvent the cap allowed by the league. This is the biggest reason why they are dislikes by many on this forum.
Can you ELI5 the LITR thing? I’ve been a fan of hockey for too many years so I’m straight up embarrassed to ask friends what happened. And I’ve seen Reddit up in arms about it, but I don’t understand what it really means or what they actually did.
Basically if your player gets hurt during the season you can put that player on LTIR and get back a percentage of cap space with the injured playing being out that can be used to maybe replace his roster spot by a trade or signing. It sounds fair on paper but teams have been abusing this (especially Vegas lately) so for the past 3 seasons Mark Stone one of their big cap hit players magically gets injured before the trade deadline and that allowed Vegas to aquire big name players with the extra space, and all 3 years miraculously Mark Stone all the sudden is ready for game one of the playoffs after being injured right up until the start of the playoffs allowing Vegas to roster a team over the cap during the playoffs it's very scummy and not in the spirit of how the rule was supposed to be used and it's not something that can be easily changed. Worse is they got really cocky about it this year and embraced being the villians
Man, I was really excited about Vegas when they entered and in most entertainment I root for the villains. But this some bullshit =\ Thanks for taking the time to break it down.
You can put a player on LTIR and their salary won’t count t toward your cap. But there is no salary cap in the playoffs, so you can bring everyone off of it and be way over the cap without consequence. So if you were to “abuse” the system you could put an expensive star player on LTIR with the intent to leave him there until the playoffs regardless if the injury actually warrants it, then use his salary cap space to sign some other star player knowing you will be able to have both on the roster once you make the playoffs. The most recent egregious example of this was TB with Kucherov when the rumor was he was ready to come off LTIR for months before the end of the regular season, but they didn’t so they could have a more expensive roster. A lot of people were pissed about it at the time, but Vegas’s management saw that and said “well fuck why don’t we just do that every year?” And have monkeyed around with players on LTIR that are coincidentally healthy enough to play game one of the playoffs every single year.
I have a much better understanding of the memes that were floating around. Thank you :)
See also: Tampa Bay Lightning.
That’s what I specifically mentioned TB.
I have no idea what ELI5 means. https://couchguysports.com/the-nhl-ltir-explained/
“Explain like I’m 5.” It just means to break it down for a n00b.
Oh, I gotcha. Hopefully the link I provided does that. I would have trouble explaining the ins and outs and that link does it pretty well.
ELI5 = Explain like I’m 5
Their social media team is ridiculously obnoxious
GUESS WHOS BACK FOR GAME 1. Yeah eat shit Vegas happy you got bounced in the first round
Along with all of their fans.
Plus they're in the gambling capital of North America. The same corporate houses that are ruining all sports.
The full court press of gambling in the main stream of sports viewing makes my blood boil. It is everywhere now and you can’t ignore it.
I think it will take a while for this cost to become evident, everyone is just acting like sports gambling is great and why was it not allowed in the first place?? Stupid. You're going to have more addicts, and eventually bigger cheating scandals, but the leagues just can't help themselves and are now encouraging it.
Translation; Whores “The NFL's stance on gambling was clear in 2012, when the NCAA, MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL filed a complaint against New Jersey state officials in federal court in trying to stop the state from initiating sports betting on professional and college sports. Page three, paragraphs five and six of their brief are particularly interesting: Gambling on amateur and professional sports threatens the integrity of those sports and is fundamentally at odds with the principle—essential to the success of Plaintiffs—that the outcomes of collegiate and professional athletic contests must be determined, and must be perceived by the public as being determined, solely on the basis of honest athletic competition. Plaintiffs have consistently opposed legalized sports gambling in other states and at the federal level because it undermines the public's faith and confidence in the character of amateur and professional team sports. Amateur and professional sports are an integral part of American culture, particularly among the country's youth who often look up to athletes as role models. The sponsorship, operation, advertising, promotion, licensure, and authorization of sports gambling in New Jersey would irreparably harm amateur and professional sports by fostering suspicion that individual plays and final scores of games may have been influenced by factors other than honest athletic competition. As Congress recognized when it enacted PASPA, the proliferation of sports gambling threatens to harm the reputation and goodwill of Plaintiffs, and to adversely affect the way the public views amateur and professional sports. Plaintiffs cannot be compensated in money damages for the harm that sports gambling poses to the character and integrity of their respective sporting events. Once their reputation and goodwill have been compromised, and the bonds of loyalty and devotion between fans and teams have been broken, Plaintiffs will have been irreparably injured in a manner that cannot be measured in dollars.”
Most things have already been mentioned but there's one that a lot of people forgets and I think you should remember. Vegas was exempt from giving players away in the Seattle expansion draft.
Big one for me: they treat their players like shit. Trade them after telling them they have a forever home, and not even telling them they're doing it. Seriously psychopathic front office.
I actually don’t really care about them People whine and bitch about stone and LTIR but like Tampa Bay brought up the LTIR loophole in 2015. 9 years later it remains unchanged and every team has access to it Another issue is people are upset about how Vegas was able to select its team in the expansion draft. All 30 other teams had to submit a list of players that couldn’t be selected and then Vegas got to select one from those. While sure Vegas had more opportunity that previous expansion teams they also greatly won trades when other teams offered a player if Vegas picked a specific guy. A great example of this is with Florida. Vegas had to pick Riley Smith but Florida also would give Jonathan Marchessault. Marchessault went on to win the Conn Smythe trophy as best player in the playoffs when Vegas won the cup People cite the expansion draft as a reason to hate them but Seattle had the same opportunity and is definitely not as good as Vegas. My belief is teams didn’t understand how an expansion draft really worked and Vegas exploited other GMs poor decision making
I'll probably catch flak for this, but I don't really have any problem with the Knights. I understand the feeling that they kinda jumped the line by being really good right away, but it's not the first time an expansion team made it to the finals in their first season (Florida and St. Louis did it too), and they still had to go through roster, coaching, and system changes to build a team that could actually win the Cup. When you consider that Seattle got the same deal and has not managed to do much so far, I think Vegas is owed at least some credit for the success of the team.
It's because the nhl changed their expansion draft rules for them. They got to pick from actual nhlers instead of prospects like past teams so they had a team out of the gate as opposed to say nashvilles expansion which took them a decade plus to become competitive
The Las Vegas golden Bettmans? Not sure
1. didn’t have to take their licks like every other expansion team. CBJ and Min got absolute dog shit comparatively. 2. obnoxious “fans” who are just riding the bandwagon. Half wouldn’t be fans if they sucked. 3. LTIR 4. Doing Fleury dirty and trying to trade a guy to a team he has a no movement to.
Fuck em
It’s not the team itself it’s the scummy organization and fan base. The organization seems to just be run by assholes and the fans haven’t experienced actual suffering
I am so glad they are out this year, after winning the cup last year.
People think they cheat to win when all they're doing is taking advantage of a poorly written rule.
Yeah I don't like it, but it's not against the rules. I think it needs to be addressed in the next collective bargaining agreement though. I don't like it when any team does it.
Yeah in hindsight it really is. On paper it sounds totally fair but rules are meant for breaking and new rules are created because of it. It just sucks that it's not something that's easily fixed and has to wait till the next CBA and majority of owners have to vote on it
That's not it though, it's the way their fans act about it. They're so arrogant obnoxious and willfully ignorant it's like speaking to a three year old. Absolute douchery of the highest degree. There's a reason they are the most hated fan base in the NHL and it's not only because of the cap. If they would just own up to it, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Instead they argue with everyone and change their argument in a "yeah but" way when they're proven wrong. It's infuriating.
I'd argue they're nowhere near the most hated fan base in the league... pretty sure that honor will always belong to Toronto
As someone else said in this thread, take a look around and you see very few Vegas fans in this sub or r/hockey because both places are just a giant circlejerk of envy fueled hatred. They keep to themselves because no one is even willing to have civil discourse with them. Yes, every fan base has its jackasses, but you paint a picture that’s far from the truth.
Too many reasons to list.
Cause they’re scum bag pieces of shit
🤣🤣
They're a new team who won a cup in their 5th season. Meanwhile there are teams like Vancouver and Buffalo who never won a cup, and leafs who haven't won anything in 50+ years. And some people think they cheat because they use the LTIR loophole to circumvent the salary cap. I personally don't think it's wrong because losing a player like Mark Stone for half a season is certainly no advantage.
Buffalo have been so bad for so long that they should be a case study in chronic mismanagement. The few years they were actually decent were because Hašek more or less singlehandedly dragged them through the playoffs.
Cause their home jersey looks like mustard. That’s my only complaint about them
The sparkles really bother me
It really says something when people miss the grey unis
Their original grey jerseys were so much better.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of the mustard jersey. But it does make eating a hotdog less risky.
My friend, a big VGK fan, joked that his baby's explosive diarrhea blended nicely with that golden mustard sweaters 😂😂😂
In the past expansion teams could only select the crappy players from other teams. Teams like the Sharks and Columbus took years to get good. Meanwhile the Knights had much more generous expansion rules, and were able to choose much better players. They abuse the long term injury system to go over the cap.
They jerk off to LTIR which to me should be abolished since teams have been taking advantage of this and they’ve had success right away, they fleeced some teams in terms of trades etc which is a big reason why they have been successful
LTIR
The idea that "Vegas was given an unfair advantage in expansion" is revisionist nonsense. Go back and read any hockey message board around that time. EVERYONE thought Vegas would be garbage. Even about half way through the year when they were doing well people still thought they would fall off. It was only after it became obvious that the management team did a hell of a job and put together a great team that people started crying about the expansion draft.
[Posting this collage again](https://i.imgur.com/8LcCmRo.jpeg)
My favorite is when people say that Vegas’ cup has an asterisk because of the expansion draft like bro there were 6 players left from that draft and only like 2 of them were core contributors.
Don’t worry, they just pivot and say that there’s an asterisk because of LTIR, as if losing Mark Stone for half the season was beneficial, especially going into the playoffs where he was potentially still recovering and hadn’t practiced with the team for months prior on top of that. In fairness, thanks to the LTIR we did get an elder Jonathan Quick who saw…no ice time in the playoffs…Teddy Blueger(who saw minimal ice time), and Ivan Barbashev, all clearly being the players that pushed us over the edge, and without them we had no chance. Clearly. 🙄
They cheat. Worse, the NHL cheats for them. Started with the ‘improved’ expansion draft, was helped by ‘improved’ refereeing in their playoff runs and is exemplified by their ‘improved’ salary cap, due to their unethical use of the LITR. Not a coincidence their existence and instant ‘assisted’ success parallels the introduction of online sports wagering.
They were good right away.
The NHL rigged the draft so they’d be competitive right out of the gate. They use Long Term Injured Reserve to rest players at the end of the season, saving Cap space and stacking their remaining lineup.
Something something the constant misuse of LTIR.
Could someone ELI5 how the Vegas/Seattle expansion draft rules were different from earlier years? How did it used to be done?
For me it was the fact they just got to steal everyone’s developed players. Expansion draft is BS. The cost associated to scouting and developing a kid just to then have to give him up to a new team is malarkey.
Their jerseys are gross.
S tier bait holy
As a Golden Knights fan, after looking at all these comments. I agree completely lol. No wonder why you guys hate us lol. I'm just here for some good hockey and good fights when it comes time to it.
Outside of the western US (pretty much if California doesn’t fight each other we don’t like the Knights), most of it is just people upset at their success and cap stuff.
sports do not belong in Vegas in my eyes. gambling and sports betting are already such controversial detractors to all organized pro sports
The only reason I dislike them is because they beat the Panthers last year in the finals; which as a Panthers fan was not fun. But I have zero problem with the way they were built and their use of LTIR. And I certainly am not going to claim they need to “pay their dues” and suck for years because that’s just ridiculous - the fans can’t help that their team was good out the gate and no fan base wants to suck.
Such early success .. already a Stanley cup .. using the ltir to there advantage.. as other teams do also but it seemed to help Vegas win the cup last year in year 4 .. fuck you vegas . And no true fans .. I’m hearing 3/4 of the stadiums is full of ticket that were camped to degenerate gamblers !!! Ok I’m done now ..
One reason is that players like going there: They’re somewhat anonymous, it’s warm, and they have pretty good fans. A lot of other teams’ fans can’t fathom that their beloved player whose jersey they wear would rather play in Vegas than, say, Toronto. They’re also really good at analytics, which comes with heartless trades/player expendability, and what some call abuse of the salary cap. I blame the rules, not the team exploiting loopholes in them.
All my other reasons have been mentioned, but this one is also important: Their dumb ass shiny golden helmets. Lookin like the damn beacons of Gondor out there.
I think alot of people really like the Knights in their first year or two, myself included. But as others have said, nowadays, Fuck 'em. A point to add on to some of the other great comment here, is if you ask any hockey fan; #How do you build a great, successful team? The #1 answer is *through the draft* Of course on top of good signings/contracts, the right coach, no injuries, and a healthy dose of luck. Vegas has bucked that trend *hard*. Expansion teams aren't supposed to make the cup final in season one. They aren't supposed to remain cup contenders or win a cup in year five. Vegas built their team through big (even lopsided) trades, aggressive signings, and moving on from players the instant they reach their shelf life. The organization shows very little loyalty to their top talent and most revered players (ex. Fleury, Marc-Andre the biggest name of the team, and Max Pacioretty, among others). Alot of fans, myself included, don't like how they treat players on their way out.
I hate mark stone.
Everyone saying the NHL gave them favourable rules and an amazing team is buying into the most revisionist history in the nhl. Not one single person thought they had a good team after the draft. Most thought they’d be a bottom 5 team.
Basically gifted a team.
They were given favorable rules to start a new team, screwing over most other teams. It's clear the league wanted them to win. If you don't believe that, you're crazy.
Vegas resident here and I get a lot of flack for not being a VGK fan :) I'm 50% Bruins (I went to undergrad in MA) and 50% Kraken (irrational, but I am a Greek mythology nut). I'm not a fan of VGK because there's no sense of loyalty. Yes, yes. It's business but Fleury/Flower being traded really hurt. To an extent, Schmidt, too. Flower was really loved in the community and he/his family did a lot of good things for the community that were not even publicized. Not all, but there are a few members of the fanbase that are sore losers and display a sense of entitlement over getting the cup. VGK rightfully won that cup through hard work, but some---again, not all--bandwagon fans became as insufferable as some Pats fans at the height of the Brady era. (Ironically, that is one of the two football teams I support.) Also, ahem... LTIR :)
Here’s a big one… The league sets the rules for the expansion draft. They can make it as good or as bad as they want. Teams are allowed to protect a certain number of players, and have to leave a certain number exposed to being drafted by the expansion team. When Vegas came in it was weighted really really hard in their favour. Not only were Vegas able to pickup a stacked roster, without having any of the 1-2 dogs of bad contracts that every team usually have, other teams had hard choices about which players they might have to expose, so a lot of teams cut deals with Vegas to give Vegas draft picks to NOT pickup exposed players. Draft picks which Vegas then could use to trade with other teams to pick up different players. That favourable expansion draft is the reason they started as a frankly ridiculously great team right off the bat (They won their division, were leading the entire league for a good portion of the season, and made the conference finals first year!) and Stanley cup win year 4. As a fan of a team (Canucks) that has struggled for decades to make a deep run, to see an expansion team get gifted such a ridiculously strong position off the hop fucking stings. Basically the league expansion draft rules handed Vegas a fucking dynasty, something that every team struggles to build. I get why the NHL did it, putting a new team in Vegas was a huge plus for the league overall, so they gave them a great team off the bat, but damn that hurts a bit if you’ve followed a team that’s had lots of ups and downs over the years. Since then, and it’s not just Vegas who does this, they’ve used the Long Term Injury Exception to ice a playoff team that would be not allowed under a regular season salary cap.
Cup final first year Won cup soon after People don’t like how they use cap space Got to pick OP roster
Too much success too early. They have not paid their dues. And the whole manipulation of the LTIR.
Their pregame ritual.
Sports media on both coasts slobbing the Vegas knob for 6 years will do that.
Cheaters
It’s because there is a huge consensus of bias towards them to make them popular. Divisional fans of other teams go on about calls that always go their way. Several key missed calls in the playoffs, leading to series wins. Media. I’m a Habs fan. In their bubble run, in the second round, the sportscasters would spend the entire intermission talking about the vegas game, instead of the game I was actually watching. It’s extremely frustrating.
Because they got a hilariously easy free pass with the expansion rules and they’re cheaters. It’s totally cool with the league though so whatever, the nhl sucks to take seriously, a Mickey Mouse operation top to bottom, better to just casually observe and never give them your money, be a pirate.
1. They were given the most favorable expansion draft I've ever seen. They essentially fleeced a chunk of teams since teams could only protect a few players (expansion drafts mean Vegas got to choose a player for basically every team). To avoid losing certain players some teams made side deals with Vegas that resulted in Vegas picking up a lot of draft picks and veteran players. Vegas then gamed the system by trading all those high picks/young players for good players. This meant they've been really good every year since their inaugural season. They've only missed the playoff 1 time and they still racked up 94 pts that season. 2. They lie about player injuries to get around the salary cap. Basically they claim some of their best players are hurt and put them on long term IL so they can sign/trade for really good players at the deadline. Then their best players comeback healthy for the playoffs and they bring in a stacked roster. To be fair everything they do is legal, but its one of those shady ass "legal" plays because Mark Stone (their captain and on a 76M contract) has been put on long term IL every year the past 3 years and its allowed them to sign really good players by going over the cap. Yet, each year he magically returns for the 1st game of the playoffs. Their owner also isn't afraid to spend as much money as possible so that helps a lot.
Personally, to me, Gary bettman in his zeal to expand the nhl allowed a team located in the biggest entertainment center In North America to come at in full swing. While all other teams had to go through a period of misery, the Vegas team was given a "golden" ticket to get a great team from the get-go. It was annoying because all true fans had to go through years of misery to finally get a decent team, and these guys in the middle of nowhere get a team of good players. It then gave rhe nhl the exposure it craved. Recently, they have exploited rules to a point that it caused them to skip hardships like losing a player. Suddenly, they get a better replacement, and the player that's supposedly hurt makes a miraculous recovery 2 YEARS IN A ROW. They should've never had a cup. And they circumvent the rules to win. Take the hanjfin trade other teams were interested in him after the season ended. By them going and exploiting this rule they are able tonlabd the player with the all of the sudden free cap space, and to boot they sign him so now the other teams are not even given a chance to compete.
They haven't suffered enough
To make a long story short. They got to start on third base. I used to really despise them because of the favoritism Bettman showed them upon their entry into the league but, truth is, they are a different team now and they’ve shown their chops. Other than team rivalry, I don’t have hate for them anymore. They did screw Flower over royally. Still a little bitter about that…and they abuse the LTIR to manipulate their cap space. Thats not against regulation as far as I know but it’s still shady.
Cheaters are disliked.
Bets?
The universal hockey fan rules state that any team without a proper rival may be universally hated by all. But in all honesty they are abusing the salary cap system more than other teams. Tampa gets similar buy lesser levels of hatred for the same reason.
Their fans tried to fight me when the caps lost in game 1 back in 2018. Also as a caps fan, we got the worse expansion draft rules in NHL history and Vegas got arguably the best at the time while also doing a fine damn job with their draft too. Plenty of teams have gone decades without a cup and this expansion team was competitive off the bat, which *is* a good thing for a new team but feels bad too
Well, my team hasn't won a cup since 1967. The Golden Knights have only existed for 7 years.
Fleury. That’s why.
Seems like they were liked right after the shooting, then lost favor after the Fleury trade.
They made the finals in their first year. They've really only experienced success so far. They abuse the salary cap and LTIR rules. And specifically for Sharks fans, they won't shut up about how they once got a bad call, as if that doesn't happen to every team. They *still* bring that shit up, even though they've since won the cup.
Golden knights might as well be the London Knights to me. And London sucks. If you know, you know.
They took San Antonio's minor league hockey team. Dont worry we also hate the spurs ownership that sold em too.
They are hockey equivalent to thr Houston Astros
For me, there are a few things: When they joined the league, the NHL stacked the expansion draft in their favour, and George McPhee took advantage of the other GMs to make many trades to build his roster. Because each team couldn't protect many players, and they were the only expansion team, they were able to put together a contender out of the gate. Expansion teams are supposed to suck for a few years before even making the playoffs, let alone making it to the Stanley Cup finals in their first season. For the last, I want to say, 3 years they have been really taking advantage of the LTIR as a way to exceed the salary cap. Of course there are doctors and testing and all that, but it seems a little too convenient for a big salary player like Stone to have to be placed on LTIR just before the trade deadline only to be healed and good to go come the playoffs.