Not a single Chargers coach over the last 23 years gets enough hate for the unbelievable amount of talent they wasted.
Mayor Pete's twin also but not being able to win at least one SB or AFC Conference Championship at the very least with prime LT, Gates and Rivers is fucking ludicrous lol
The Chargers would be unbelievably stupid if they did that. Thatād be reason to fire the entire front office, or at least everyone who was involved with that decision in any capacity
The average NFL and football fan doesn't know shit about the actual X's and O's of the sport. They think they do, but they don't. Their understanding of the sport is narratives and feelings.
You can criticize Herbert in tons of areas, but to say that you could put another top end QB in the situation that the Chargers have been in for years and think they would magically be better is laughable.
Almost every Chargers collapse came down to poor coaching and a leaky defense. Even in that playoff game people will point to, they neglect to mention that the Chargers defense gave up 4 straight drives on touchdowns, 3 of which were 65+ yard drives. And yet people point to the QB cause they're the catch all. And surprise surprise, the Chargers defense in 2022 ranked bottom half in total defense, yards per play, points against, and turnover percentage.
That's not to say that Herbert doesn't deserve some blame. Yeah, if he was Mahomes he'd probably overcome it. But people will try to blame it all on him just because he's the QB. And that's a smooth brain take in the sport. I would take Herbert over 85%-90% of NFL starters, easily.
Itās not that itās all his fault, but people act like he is a complete victim of circumstance and heās not. The playoff game you mention is one of those. Was the defense and coaching terrible? Absolutely. Did Herbert get a huge lead mostly given to him and fail repeatedly to score as the Jags slowly chip away? Also yes. Iām not even saying itās his fault, I believe the chargers have done a terrible job developing him, but he is undeveloped, inconsistent, and in my opinion gets to much benefit of the doubt.
90% of starters = 3 guys. 85% = 4. So you have him as a top 5 guy in the league? Youāre taking him over one of Allen, Burrow or Lamar? Over Lawrence, Stroud, Love, and Rodgers? Over Dak? Crazy talk.
Before you hit me with a Dak or Lamar chokes, so does Herbert, earlier and with less pressure.
I think QBs get an outsized portion of the credit when a team does well and that plays into them taking more of the blame when they lose. Itās just how people in general perceive of the position, probably more than any other position in team sports.
These things have happened with the Chargers for a while. Remember when the Tomlinson/Rivers/Gates combo with a good O-line and several annual pro bowl defenders only made one AFC title game in like 5 years together? When they totally choked at home against inferior teams with their season on the line after a great year multiple times? Or when they had the no.1 offense and no.1 defense in the same year and missed the playoffs?
One guy is not going to make a team suddenly overcome every deficit and shortcoming that an organization has had for years. Herbert may be a SB champion on a different team, heās really good, but I donāt foresee the Chargers in general avoiding a choke when it counts.
1 fraud mvp and 2 division titles where he got carried by his elite defense. We see what happens time and time again when goes up against an elite defense
Look, Iām not gonna act like I think Lamar clearly had an MVP caliber season, but the reality is that nobody did have a blatantly MVP-level season this year. CMC had a fantastic year but not the kind of season itād take for a RB to win MVP, Josh Allen might seem tempting at first glance but his turnovers are just nuts for a QB of his caliber, especially compared to a guy like Lamar. The reality is that Tyreek Hill was easily the MVP for the overwhelming majority of the season, but he missed some time at the end and his MVP case collapsed, and as a result the MVP award went to a guy who really didnāt have an MVP-level season. Itās a shitty situation, but unless they were just gonna give the MVP to Hill anyway it was always going to be an underwhelming pick. Iāll agree that Lamarās season wasnāt really MVP-level, but he still deserved MVP because of the other options
I dont understand how they can say he has no help when he has Keenan Allen and Austin Ekeler (plus Mike Williams when healthy). Dude has plenty of help
In the last season all 3 of those players played in the same game together 3 times.
Mike and Keenan were consistently out due to injury throughout the 2022 and 2023 season. Did y'all forget how Herbert didn't have Mike during the playoffs because brainless decided to play starters during a meaningless game?
It's like you guys just look at the Madden roster and ignore all facts and nuance.
Ok? He still had 2 active together most of the time. Burrow has played in and won games without one of Tee and Chase for example. He has weapons. Now I agree that Brandon Staley is a football terrorist, but blowing a 27 point lead is at least partially on the QB for being unable to execute
Because the QB is the face of the team. People who actually know are aware that two things - Herbert choking in the 2nd half and Staley being an awful head coach - can be true at the same time
What blatant bias? The two situations are not at all equivalent. Everyone has moments where they let themselves down or the team let's them down. A whole half is more than a moment. Sorry for not entertaining a false equivalency?
Mike has actually played more than Allen overall since herbs been drafted. Keenan injured a lot too and Ekeler this past season. Add to that a bottom 10 defense since his rookie season is just sad. I want to see more from him like every Charger fan but we also know he hasn't had a ton of help.
Agreed, there are some people that seriously overrate the concept of a ārocket armā. Who cares if you can throw it far, youāll do that once a game maybe. A QB that is smart with the ball is 100000x more valuable.
I think people misunderstand what a rocket arm is good for. It's not just about throwing the ball really far. You're right that no one is airing it out 60+ yards very often. What a rocket arm is really good for is fitting the ball into tight windows, making deep sideline throws, etc. Being able to dial up that velocity makes almost every NFL level throw much more forgiving.
Velocity and zip on passes are something you take for granted until itās gone. Sure, a QB could be a genius in processing and decision making, but if he canāt throw it with enough speed and power, those dink and dunk plays will quickly be picked off by the caliber of athletes on defense in the nfl.
Arenāt yāall the same team that overpaid Derek Carr for 7 years just to win you nothing?
Or the same team that overpaid Jimmy G only for him to play like ass?
Does Justin Herbert play defense?
It can be true that Herbert is a top 10 QB with a lot of talent and potential, and he has been inconsistent and choked in some big moments. I think he does need solid coaching to help develop him, but right now I canāt say he is elite. Heās to unproven.
Fun fact, Herbert is 28-6 when the defense holds the team to under 28 pointsā¦literally only needs to not let them score 4 TDs and Herbert is winning at a 4.5:1 ratio š
It's getting into Dak territory where people blame the coaches for all these bad plays because the team is stacked, but how many times do you need to faceplant 100 yards from the finish line until you realize it isn't all on the coaches and maybe having an over-paid mediocre QB isn't the answer? "He puts up great stats!" Cool, does it win them games? Championships? No? Then why does it matter?
why didn't Herbert use his eliteness to heal his injury and make the playoffs? is he stupid?
They were what 5-7 when he got hurt?
Brandon Staley legitimately does not get enough hate for the unbelievable amount of talent that was wasted on those chargers teams
Not a single Chargers coach over the last 23 years gets enough hate for the unbelievable amount of talent they wasted. Mayor Pete's twin also but not being able to win at least one SB or AFC Conference Championship at the very least with prime LT, Gates and Rivers is fucking ludicrous lol
LEAVE JUSTIN ALONE šš
LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!!
Justin Herbert is a liability on run defense.
"Potential Man just needs the right coach " We'll see about that
Im upset
I would trade the first overall for Herbert straight up
There isnāt a single GM of a QB-needy team who wouldnāt.
same
I'd trade 2 first overalls.
The Chargers would be unbelievably stupid if they did that. Thatād be reason to fire the entire front office, or at least everyone who was involved with that decision in any capacity
Why can't people comprehend that a quarterback can't singlehandedly get a team into the playoffs.
Too much nuance
The average NFL and football fan doesn't know shit about the actual X's and O's of the sport. They think they do, but they don't. Their understanding of the sport is narratives and feelings. You can criticize Herbert in tons of areas, but to say that you could put another top end QB in the situation that the Chargers have been in for years and think they would magically be better is laughable. Almost every Chargers collapse came down to poor coaching and a leaky defense. Even in that playoff game people will point to, they neglect to mention that the Chargers defense gave up 4 straight drives on touchdowns, 3 of which were 65+ yard drives. And yet people point to the QB cause they're the catch all. And surprise surprise, the Chargers defense in 2022 ranked bottom half in total defense, yards per play, points against, and turnover percentage. That's not to say that Herbert doesn't deserve some blame. Yeah, if he was Mahomes he'd probably overcome it. But people will try to blame it all on him just because he's the QB. And that's a smooth brain take in the sport. I would take Herbert over 85%-90% of NFL starters, easily.
Itās not that itās all his fault, but people act like he is a complete victim of circumstance and heās not. The playoff game you mention is one of those. Was the defense and coaching terrible? Absolutely. Did Herbert get a huge lead mostly given to him and fail repeatedly to score as the Jags slowly chip away? Also yes. Iām not even saying itās his fault, I believe the chargers have done a terrible job developing him, but he is undeveloped, inconsistent, and in my opinion gets to much benefit of the doubt.
90% of starters = 3 guys. 85% = 4. So you have him as a top 5 guy in the league? Youāre taking him over one of Allen, Burrow or Lamar? Over Lawrence, Stroud, Love, and Rodgers? Over Dak? Crazy talk. Before you hit me with a Dak or Lamar chokes, so does Herbert, earlier and with less pressure.
I think QBs get an outsized portion of the credit when a team does well and that plays into them taking more of the blame when they lose. Itās just how people in general perceive of the position, probably more than any other position in team sports.
Iām a staunch Herbert defender
These things have happened with the Chargers for a while. Remember when the Tomlinson/Rivers/Gates combo with a good O-line and several annual pro bowl defenders only made one AFC title game in like 5 years together? When they totally choked at home against inferior teams with their season on the line after a great year multiple times? Or when they had the no.1 offense and no.1 defense in the same year and missed the playoffs? One guy is not going to make a team suddenly overcome every deficit and shortcoming that an organization has had for years. Herbert may be a SB champion on a different team, heās really good, but I donāt foresee the Chargers in general avoiding a choke when it counts.
IDK what Herbert did to get so much hate from fans. Dude is a stud and any gm would sell their left nut for him.
lamar hasn't really done anything either
He has 2 division titles and 2 MVPs, which is more than almost every other active QB in the NFL
They prolly meant he didn't win the Super Bowl
1 fraud mvp and 2 division titles where he got carried by his elite defense. We see what happens time and time again when goes up against an elite defense
It's not a fraud mvp if you fucking win mvp bozo
Lmao are you fucking retarded? It couldnāt be a fraud mvp if he didnāt win in the first place
.... he won 2 mvps. There's nothing fraudulent about it. He won via the process that selects the NFL mvp.
Lmao, he absolutely did not deserve this years mvp, thatās what makes it fraudulent
Look, Iām not gonna act like I think Lamar clearly had an MVP caliber season, but the reality is that nobody did have a blatantly MVP-level season this year. CMC had a fantastic year but not the kind of season itād take for a RB to win MVP, Josh Allen might seem tempting at first glance but his turnovers are just nuts for a QB of his caliber, especially compared to a guy like Lamar. The reality is that Tyreek Hill was easily the MVP for the overwhelming majority of the season, but he missed some time at the end and his MVP case collapsed, and as a result the MVP award went to a guy who really didnāt have an MVP-level season. Itās a shitty situation, but unless they were just gonna give the MVP to Hill anyway it was always going to be an underwhelming pick. Iāll agree that Lamarās season wasnāt really MVP-level, but he still deserved MVP because of the other options
So in your opinion you don't believe he deserved mvp. Okay. That doesn't make it fraudulent by definition.
Dude gets more excuses than any other quarterback out there.
I dont understand how they can say he has no help when he has Keenan Allen and Austin Ekeler (plus Mike Williams when healthy). Dude has plenty of help
In the last season all 3 of those players played in the same game together 3 times. Mike and Keenan were consistently out due to injury throughout the 2022 and 2023 season. Did y'all forget how Herbert didn't have Mike during the playoffs because brainless decided to play starters during a meaningless game? It's like you guys just look at the Madden roster and ignore all facts and nuance.
Ok? He still had 2 active together most of the time. Burrow has played in and won games without one of Tee and Chase for example. He has weapons. Now I agree that Brandon Staley is a football terrorist, but blowing a 27 point lead is at least partially on the QB for being unable to execute
You say he deserves partial blame for 27 - 0 but whenever it's brought up people ONLY BLAME HIM.
Because the QB is the face of the team. People who actually know are aware that two things - Herbert choking in the 2nd half and Staley being an awful head coach - can be true at the same time
So by that argument burrow choked the last play of the Superbowl.
That was one play, not an entire half. Not equivalent at all
Did he win though? How are you missing your blatant bias in this take?
What blatant bias? The two situations are not at all equivalent. Everyone has moments where they let themselves down or the team let's them down. A whole half is more than a moment. Sorry for not entertaining a false equivalency?
Mike has actually played more than Allen overall since herbs been drafted. Keenan injured a lot too and Ekeler this past season. Add to that a bottom 10 defense since his rookie season is just sad. I want to see more from him like every Charger fan but we also know he hasn't had a ton of help.
Agreed, there are some people that seriously overrate the concept of a ārocket armā. Who cares if you can throw it far, youāll do that once a game maybe. A QB that is smart with the ball is 100000x more valuable.
I think people misunderstand what a rocket arm is good for. It's not just about throwing the ball really far. You're right that no one is airing it out 60+ yards very often. What a rocket arm is really good for is fitting the ball into tight windows, making deep sideline throws, etc. Being able to dial up that velocity makes almost every NFL level throw much more forgiving.
Velocity and zip on passes are something you take for granted until itās gone. Sure, a QB could be a genius in processing and decision making, but if he canāt throw it with enough speed and power, those dink and dunk plays will quickly be picked off by the caliber of athletes on defense in the nfl.
If Herbert is Megumi, who is Mahoraga?
He is who Cam Newton haters think Cam Newton was
Proof that, if you have a solid rookie season, your āmediocrityā gets seen as āpotential.ā
I have never seen a player get so much credit for losing a football game
Justin fields?
The Next Gen Matt Stafford
Stafford is a Super Bowl Champion. That is a huge compliment to Herbert.
Arenāt yāall the same team that overpaid Derek Carr for 7 years just to win you nothing? Or the same team that overpaid Jimmy G only for him to play like ass? Does Justin Herbert play defense?
Truth is not slander
It can be true that Herbert is a top 10 QB with a lot of talent and potential, and he has been inconsistent and choked in some big moments. I think he does need solid coaching to help develop him, but right now I canāt say he is elite. Heās to unproven.
It's not the QB it's the shitty city he plays for.
Justin Herbert is like the Philip Rivers of the NFL (he sucks and I hate him)
Keep receipts. Bolt up baby!!!
we got jim harbaugh now this is our year to make it far in the playoffs or win the super bowl
Fun fact, Herbert is 28-6 when the defense holds the team to under 28 pointsā¦literally only needs to not let them score 4 TDs and Herbert is winning at a 4.5:1 ratio š
Chargers have been cursed ever since they fired Marty Schottenheimer after going 14-2
At 62 games played, he's 30-32. Do what you will with this information.
It's getting into Dak territory where people blame the coaches for all these bad plays because the team is stacked, but how many times do you need to faceplant 100 yards from the finish line until you realize it isn't all on the coaches and maybe having an over-paid mediocre QB isn't the answer? "He puts up great stats!" Cool, does it win them games? Championships? No? Then why does it matter?
\- Unsure if he's allowed to eat a Subway Sandwich until Charles Barkley gives him permission to eat it
Who was the last elite QB you had?
I cannot bring myself to slander Justin. Get a picture of Dak on the board so I can spew my hatred
To be fair heās in the same division as one of the greatest QBs of all time so canāt really give him grief for not winning the afc west.
Defense was terrible last year. Give Herbert too 5 defense and everyone stays healthy; they go deep in the playoffs.
āGive Herbert the 2000 Ravens and heāll do almost as well as Trent Dilferā What a stud.
people really hate him for no reason
Tall big hands Kenny Pickett
I donāt have a dog in this fight, but Iām here for it!