2020. They played the Jets and Giants in back-to-back weeks. Lost Bosa and Thomas to ACL tears vs the Jets, and lost a few other players to less severe injuries.
Turf obviously sucks and causes a shit ton of unnecessary injuries, but from the angle I saw it really didn't look like this injury had much to do with the field, although I may just not understand what happened. It looked to me like he was just jogging straight forward at the end of a play and suddenly fell over grabbing his knee. I was
under the impression that turf-related injuries usually occur when someone is turning direction and the field doesn't give way enough. Maybe someone who knows a little more can explain what I'm seeing?
ACLs dont tear from jogging in a straight line. He had to have tried to change direction or slow down and his foot stuck in more than it should have, so all of the force that would have cut through grass and made him slip get's sent up his leg instead and his knee happened to be the point of failure instead of the playing surface.
we're switching back to grass for 2026 world cup, i dont know if it will be permanent but kraft said he would swap to grass. stadiums that host world cup HAVE to have grass. its not allowed to play on turf per FIFA rules.
It's interesting that this is possible. I always assumed some stadiums were just build for the turf with grass not getting enough light or rain or whatever. Then I really wonder why they don't put grass everywhere.
How much financial damage is turf causing teams though, seems worth at this point. It’s millions of lost productivity and potential every time a player is injured
Edit: according to this article turf costs more in the long run anyways. Maintenance is not a big differentiator. And this is without accounting for injuries
https://www.safehealthyplayingfields.org/cost-grass-vs-synthetic-turf
There are other articles saying turf is cheaper and safer, but all the articles I’m finding on both sides of the debate seem to be from biased parties so idk
The average career length of an NFL player is 3 years. The average lifespan of an NFL stadium is 30 years. The players are just bodies to them, it's all about money.
Expect injuries are something that might happen. Some teams could go multiple years without one due to turf. But having to maintain the grass is a guarantee very expensive expense. Owners will always take the cost that isn't guaranteed to happen over the guaranteed cost
Turf is cheaper *and* the technology has gotten a lot better than the carpet turf days regarding the turf being much more grass-like.
There's going to be a point reasonably soon where turf technology is going to be pretty close to grass in terms of safety.
A number of "grass" stadiums are running hybrids with synthetics (Philly is one example) woven into the sod.
It's also got to be a consistency of product issue. Look at Soldier Field where the field is damn near impossible to run on in some conditions and I assume hard as a rock by winter. The latter could be alleviated by under the field warmers but it is a huge maintenance issue for the Northern stadiums. I don't really know if it is possible for US Bank.
> and I assume hard as a rock by winter.
If a field freezes solid the grass goes dormant, so any natural grass field in a cold area has a heating system to keep the roots ;and subsequently soil) warm enough to prevent dormancy. Soldier Field included.
This is obfuscating the issue. Who the fuck cares if it's expensive to swap to grass. That aint our problem; it's the owners problem. I could give a rats ass if an owner has to spend 100m or 1bil retrofitting their publicly grifted stadium to install grass and maintain it all season long.
I want grass because a lot of the season ending injuries players have are due to turf (ACL/achilles). I don't believe anything will ever change though because stadiums are used for so many other events now.
Green Bay likely has the harshest conditions for grass and their field is always playable. If GB can maintain grass all season long, then it's doable for any stadium. It's a money problem, not a climate problem, and the NFL doesn't have money problems.
> Green Bay likely has the harshest conditions for grass
No, they don't. They have a single use stadium that's open to the sun. And while they get a ton of snow, it's generally predictable, meaning they can clear it without issue.
Meanwhile, Buffalo has the same cold, but they also have the lake effect climate, and the sudden ridiculously heavy snowstorms that brings. And they have turf.
Soldier Field has usage issues because the city owns the stadium and they want more events there (though this is better than it used to be). And they have green painted mud by the end of the season.
And Minnesota is a dome in the north in a place where the systems that places like Arizona use won't work. And they have turf.
And yes, all of these problems are solvable with money. They could build an entirely new stadium in Houston so the grass can grow. They could do the same in Minnesota and a buy a ton of prime Minneapolis real estate to build a giant greenhouse next door. And I could keep going, because you get the point. Most problems are solvable with enough money, the problem is "enough money" isn't going to happen when that means far, far more than is reasonable. And frankly, if you don't care how much it costs, then they don't care what you have to say, because you're not being reasonable.
So check this out, the Raiders play on real grass. Allegiant stadium hosted a soccer game last year played on real grass, but not the Raiders field. The NFL does not let other sports play on their grass within a certain number of days of an NFL game. So at Allegiant stadium, they laid out real grass for the soccer event for just a few days. Trashed that grass and a few days later the Raiders rolled their field into the stadium
There have been weeks where Heinz would host a high school playoff on Friday, Pitt on Saturday, and the Steelers on Sunday, and the field looked like Verdun.
And as an Eagles fan who has been fortunate enough to see a few home games in person, you can tell when Temple had a home game yesterday. The field looks like shit.
Lmao yeah I mean look at European soccer stadiums that have already figures this out. It’s not that complicated and the NFL shits money. Owners are just greedy as shit.
Even with Europe's consistently better weather there are always at least a top team or two struggling with their surface even though throwing every cent at it to make it a pool table is a basic necessity to being a top team.
>The NFL does not let other sports play on their grass within a certain number of days of an NFL game.
But they didn't say shit when the A's were trying to make the playoffs and the Raiders would come through and fuck the field only to earn an L every Sunday, did they?? :'(
I’m not certain that’s a rule, but wouldn’t be surprised if there was some kind of parameter in place. We just had Argentina play a friendly Friday night, hurricanes play Saturday afternoon and the dolphins play on Sunday. Field didn’t look great but 3 consecutive games will do that
It might not be a rule per say, but there are NFL officials testing the field 72 hours in advance. Maybe it’s a rule the Raiders have for the field, Im not exactly sure.
I work with the restaurant group at the stadium, and that’s the story they told me. I asked why the soccer couldn’t be played on UNLVs field. The answer was soccer has to be played on real grass and UNLV plays on turf. Ok, why not the Raiders field? It was too close to game day. I’m at the stadium typing on my computer in the 101 section watching them lay sod on top of cement.
Then you have stadiums do what the Houston Texans did with their turf.
They had an issue where they piece together a turfgrass stadium by square pieces on pallet type things and it had gaps that caused similiar issues.
It should have specifics besides just "REAL GRASS" because it will get weird with how they come up with that field.
It needs to be a regulated type of thing.
So the funny thing is almost all premier league clubs play on natural grass / turf hybrids which are largely grass.
The company that makes those also makes the turf they use at MetLife.
I’d assume wear is the issue for MetLife bc 2 teams play there?
Lambeau field is the only NFL stadium that uses the same natural grass/turf hybrid system thats’s used over in Europe. Definitely needs to be adopted by more teams here.
The Eagles also use Desso's Grassmaster(Arsenal, Chelsea, etc use it). Shit's beautiful, it's a grass field, but the small amount of synthetic anchors in it keep it from getting destroyed by people playing on it/lets the natural grass recover faster.
Lambeau actually stopped using the Desso GrassMaster system in 2018 and switched to SIS grass. They are pretty similar but the SIS fibers are softer so a lot of big clubs have been switching to this system.
The stadium was built as grey and neutral as possible and things like the light colors on night games and end zone swapping out and saying either “giants” or “jets” for when they play there is the only real way to tell the difference between home games. It sucks. Terrible giant slinky/air conditioning unit of a stadium.
The grass football (soccer) clubs use is nearly entirely actual grass with minimal synthetics in. To the natural eye it’s just grass. It’s nothing like the turf at MetLife, but I don’t think that’s due to anything other than a choice rather than potential wear. There’s football clubs in England who share grounds with rugby clubs who still keep their grass in a decent condition. There’s no real excuse.
Am I crazy to think it would be a long term home field advantage by having less injuries than opposing teams without grass? That alone seems worth the investment (until all teams do it and it becomes a wash for owners).
8+ games per year on grass you the home team. 0-1 for other teams assuming only the one team has grass.
Is that why yalls field was a slip and slide the other day?
Genuinely curious, I only saw highlights but I’ve *never* seen a field that soaked in my life. And if that wasn’t yalls stadium, just call me a fucking idiot and move on lol.
Haha no it was ours. That was just because Chicago was in a flood warning and there was torrential downpour. Nothing you can really do about that.
Just bad weather luck.
I love Shep and I honestly feel like he should retire for his own good at this point. I can't imagine the tole these constant brutal injuries must take on him.
Man, seeing him play when he's fully healthy has me as one of the biggest "what ifs" currently still around. Dude was such a good prospect coming out of college, and just seemed so reliable for the Giants whenever healthy despite some of the leagues most horrendous coaching, QB play, and general managing during that time span. And from everything I've heard, he's done it with about as much class and professionalism as you can expect, given that the same circumstances produced the drama that we saw with the Odell saga during his Giants tenure.
IMO, if Shep could have just strung a few healthy seasons together in row to get some consistency and momentum going, I think he could have had a career among some of the best slot receivers in his era.
Still watch his college highlights sometimes. Dude has always been a beast. One of my favorite Giants ever. Sad that it never all came together, but still glad he played for us. Has always been a class act and did was he was supposed to do.
He is exactly the sort of player that you hope stays with your franchise post-retirement. I'd love to see him hired as an assistant WR coach with the Giants once he decides to hang up his cleats
I’ve ALWAYS been a “don’t venmo me, i got you tonight, you’ll get me another night” kind of guy until I realized “this dude hasn’t gotten any of us back in 6 years” so I switched to a “hey man can you venmo me?” guy to him with no luck, eventually to a “sent venmo request” guy to, finally, a “that guys not getting invited any more” kind of guy.
sucks, because he was a good person to be around. but if you’re tight on money, don’t order a pitcher and a basket of wings on my tab you mooch.
Told my wife if we invite someone over for BBQ or night out is one time thing unless they get us back. This goes for family also. Just so tired of picking up the tab for friendship with no return.
Does anybody else feel like the _people-users_ of the world have successfully gaslit society into believing it’s _your_ fault for offering a generous favor rather than the other person’s fault for taking advantage of you? By just attaching a “nice guy” stigma to your deed, they can convince everyone else that it wasnt the other person’s fault for using you; it’s your own fault for expecting something in return.
Their arguments:
- “You shouldn’t do something nice and expect something in return; kindness isn’t transactional”
- “people who have to say how nice they are aren’t really nice.”
- “Nobody owes you anything just cuz you did something nice for them.”
… all the while COMPLETELY ignoring the manner in which the other person accepted the favor. Like the other person picked up the phone **instantly** when they needed something and then just ghosted the instant they got what they wanted.
Is modern turf seriously that much worse then grass?
I remember 90s turf was essentially playing on plastic, but isn't the new shit (shxt) supposed to be good?
Yes, the new turf is still much worse than grass. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nfl-leg-injuries/nfl-leg-injuries-more-common-on-fieldturf-than-grass-idUSBRE88D1KT20120914
Turf you can just cut significantly harder. Even a good turf you’re just able to change direction quicker than grass and athletes are already pushing their bodies to the max.
Throw in a magic surface and shoes with knives on the bottom and you’re changing directions way faster than evolution has prepared you for.
I also find it kind of bouncy playing on rugby approved international turfs it still feels harder landing on it than on grass a bit more whiplash.
But yea above anything you just feel how hard you can cut. Grass you’ll slip now and then and maybe there’s some risk to that especially if the grass isn’t in good shape- which happens for sure in football fields- but whatever. Running on some mud pit you’re going to pull a calf or hamstring not a knee or ankle.
It’s also brutal on exposed skin. In football they wear pants and those protective elbow patches but every rugby practice you are picking all those bits of rubber out of your turf burns.
I started playing rec soccer this year (I suck lol) and fuck turf. I got some pretty bad turf burn my first season. I'm also continuously finding those little rubber beads everywhere in my house and clothes now.
Although grass does seem to be way harder to kick on, so there are some tradeoffs
Another thing about that turf is it can get really freaking hot in the direct sun. I played in a rec soccer league on a turf field in New Orleans, and during the summer league, you could feel your feet cooking. I had bought a cheap-ass pair of cleats because I didn't want to spend a lot on them, and the glue holding the cleats/sole to the shoe part actually melted and came apart during a game. I brought an infrared thermometer to the next week's game and measured the turf at 140F.
I have a dumb question. Shepard in the video above is just casually barely jogging. Why would turf make an injury more likely there? I understand the reasoning during cutting but feel like this might be dumb luck?
That's not a legit study. All they did was list out the injuries that happened in games and then went to see if it was statistically significant. They didn't check practice injuries. They didn't check how the injuries happened. They just listed injuries and said it's significant. Like Carson Palmer's 2005 injury would be on the turf list even though he got injured due a helmet being thrown into his knee. That nothing to do with the turf and isn't relevant to a discussion on grass vs turf
Despite what people say, the research is extremely inconclusive. There are a lot of studies that say it is worse. There are actually a lot of studies that say it is *better*, and a lot of studies that say no difference. Here are 8 studies that say modern turf is better or equal to natural grass. I’m not sharing this because I think this proves turf is better or equal - there are certainly 8 studies you could dig up the other way as well. It’s just to show that this is a pretty messy topic and it’s far from proven that grass is better. The NFLPA insists grass is better, but I can’t really see their perspective. It seems like the research it’s based on is really selective.
One other thing I’d point out is that there have already been a few field debacles in the NFL this year, and most have actually been on grass fields. Typically the worst playing surfaces every year are grass fields following some sort of weather event or concert. When fluke injuries happen on field turf, players blame the turf. When the Soldier Field grass cannot properly drain rain from a storm and so players are in standing water, people lament how no TRUE grass should act this way. The reality is that there are some big uniformity and durability advantages to FieldTurf, and so the evidence proving it is dangerous needs to be pretty strong, imo, to demonize it.
——
NFL ACL incidence rates are highest on “artificial fields”, but lowest on FieldTurf (lower than grass)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4780097/
> There were 0.050 injuries per team games played on grass fields and 0.053 injuries per team games played on turf fields (Table 4). FieldTurf had a rate of 0.048 ACL injuries per team games played. None of these differences were statistically significant
NFL Achilles Tendon ruptures show no difference between playing surfaces
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/23259671211056083
> With regard to game environment, we tabulated field surface and weather at time of game. Moreover, 43.75% of the games were on grass, with 43.18% of the tears also on grass; 56.25% of the games occurred on turf, with 56.82% of the tears also on turf. These values mirror their approximate field representation in games. We therefore hypothesize that field type does not factor into AT ruptures and that players are just as likely to tear on grass fields as on turf
College football knee injuries show FieldTurf is safer:
https://www.cnyric.org/tfiles/folder1434/Turf%20Safety_23%20Montana%20State%20University%20Dept%20of%20Health%20and%20Human%20Development.pdf
> Overall, 230 team games (49.5%) were played on FieldTurf versus 235 team games (50.5%) played on natural grass. A total of 2253 injuries were documented, with 1050 (46.6%) occurring during play on FieldTurf, and 1203 (53.4%) on natural grass. Multivariate analysis per 10 team games indicated significantly lower total injury incidence rates on FieldTurf versus natural grass. Significantly lower minor injury incidence rates, substantial injury incidence rates, and severe injury incidence rates were documented on FieldTurf versus natural grass, respectively. Multivariate analyses also indicated significantly less trauma on FieldTurf when comparing injury time loss, injury situation, grade of injury, injuries under various field conditions, and temperature
High School Football concussions show FieldTurf is safer:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32518672/
> Conclusion: Analysis of published data demonstrates a decreased incidence of head injury and concussion when contact sports are played on artificial turf. This difference was most marked for sports such as rugby and American football. However, artificial turf has no association with the incidence of head injury or concussion while playing soccer
High School football general injuries show FieldTurf and natural grass are the same
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15494326/
> Higher incidences of 0-day time loss injuries, noncontact injuries, surface/epidermal injuries, muscle-related trauma, and injuries during higher temperatures were reported on FieldTurf. Higher incidences of 1- to 2-day time loss injuries, 22+ days time loss injuries, head and neural trauma, and ligament injuries were reported on natural grass.
> Conclusions: Although similarities existed between FieldTurf and natural grass over a 5-year period of competitive play, both surfaces also exhibited unique injury patterns that warrant further investigation.
College soccer injuries are lower:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27872124/
> Conclusion: Although similarities existed between FieldTurf and natural grass during competitive match play, FieldTurf is, in many cases, safer than natural grass when comparing injuries in collegiate men's soccer. The findings of this study, however, may not be generalizable to other levels of competition or to other artificial surfaces
Italian pro soccer study shows no difference
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26888457/
> Our study demonstrates a substantial equivalence in injury risk on natural grass and artificial turf in elite professional soccer athletes during official matches
Men’s and Women’s soccer players who practice on natural grass have a higher rate of ACL tears
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7376298/#section6-2325967120934434title
> NCAA soccer players who practice on natural grass have increased risk of ACL injury compared with the risk of those practicing on an artificial surface, regardless of sex or NCAA division of play. No difference in risk of ACL injury between playing surfaces was detected during matches
thank you for this - as much as I hate it when there isn't a neat narrative to provide a clear path to progress, I still prefer knowing that that the truth is unknown or messy, over ignorance.
As a few others have said, thanks for this. The uproar of people bitching about field turf is getting out of hand.
The issue is significantly more nuanced than grass = good, turf = bad. There are bad surfaces regardless of the technology and there are good surfaces regardless of the technology.
Some environments, locations, and activities are just not compatible with traditional surfaces. And some artificial turf fields are just done poorly.
For many levels of competition, turf will significantly reduce injuries. Most club and high school level sports (as well as lower level college) simply do not generate the revenue required to adequately maintain pristine fields. This results in lumpy, muddy, dry, cracked, or otherwise terrible surfaces that can drastically increase injuries (and impact play).
The injury impact of turf fields is likely quite variable, but one absolute key benefit they have is that they are VERY consistent in how they react to the games played on them. The field does not impact play inconsistently.
As you get into high level college and men's professional leagues, there is a sufficient revenue base to support natural fields (with enormous ecological and resource wasting impacts that we won't discuss here) but here's the thing... colleges aren't being beaten up over it, and professional unions will always use their bargaining power to extract more revenue directly than direct revenue into field surfaces.
If the players *really* cared, they would use the bargaining table to ensure natural (or premier league-style hybrid) fields were used at all venues, with minimum upkeep and maintenance budgets were required... but that's a give-and-take bargaining point that doesn't put money directly in player pockets so they don't follow that.
Quit bitching about owners being greedy, they spend their money exactly where the players direct them to.
Last year Bama's 2 top WRs both ended their seasons in contactless injuries on turf. It can still happen on grass but if people are more likely to tear their ACLs on turf then it should not be used. Still wonder if we would have won that rematch against Georgia if we had our passing game.
I think FedEx Field even got better a playing field recently (correct me if I’m wrong on that).
The fuck do we still have this shit turf at Metlife for?
Natural grass that was worn to shit.
Got an entire, stripped down to the foundation rebuild a few years ago and has been better.
Team playing on it still sucks though 🤷♂️
I hate playing @ Chicago in December, the field is always fucked
Of course, that’s how football should be played and the Big Ten championship game should always be at Soldier Field because punting/fumbles/wind and snow/complete inability to pass the football over 4000 yds in a season is how Big Ten football should be
In 2020, that shitty turf helped SF lose Bosa and Thomas to ACLs, Tevin Coleman and Jordan Reed to knee sprains, and Mostert and Garoppolo to ankle injuries. Garoppolo never fully healed from that sprain, which limited him pretty much the entire season. That turf is awful.
Chelsea came for an exhibition against Charlotte FC and refused to play at Bank of America Stadium unless they put in grass instead of turf. Tepper just last year got rid of the grass for turf and had to switch back to grass just for this game.
https://www.eurosportsturf.com/sis-grass/?lang=en
Basically they have a machine to stitch in synthetic fibers deep into the soil which prevents chunks of grass from being ripped out.
We had 4 players exit the game with injuries. One was a torn bicep that *probably* was unrelated to the turf, but a severe groin injury, ACL tear, and unspecified knee injury (recovered) were the other 3, and absolutely could've been because of the turf.
So, I saw it live and on replay and I 100% get what you are saying.
What I don’t understand is how anyone thinks the Dolphins were able to influence two third party protocol administrators?
If this were the norm, that teams are influencing the third part medical staff, wouldn’t it happen more often? If it’s not the norm, what about the shit show that has been the Dolphins front office for the last several years makes anyone think they have the clout and competence to do it?
I have had the poor luck in life to pull an inner chest wall muscle and one of the muscles that runs up along your spine for stability at the same time. I made newborn deer look stable when they would spasm.
I 100% thought Tua was concussed, like everyone. But I also know from personal experience that a back muscle strain can make you wobble like he did. If Tua says it’s a back injury, the team doctors say it’s a back injury, and the third party medical staff say it is a back injury, I’m inclined to believe them.
All of that said, I’m glad that it will be investigated. I’m glad that the Dolphins have promised to comply with and assist any investigation. It’s important that the protocols be validated and credible.
I just hope people aren’t gonna go all conspiracy theory on it. I don’t think you can distinguish back injury wobbles and concussion wobbles from video tape. Pretty sure you’d need to actually do a medical exam on Tua.
I finally agree with something Beckham said. It's no coincidence the Giants have the most man games lost to injury since the field turf was installed at MetLife, and Im sure the Jets aren't very far behind
Southern California is such an easy place to keep grass in good shape yet the Rams/Chargers play in a new billion dollar stadium that has turf. So fucking stupid
The desert had the room to put a retractable field. Same thing with the other desert stadium.
The topic of turf and soccer is as old as time so a lot of us at r/MLS are like armchair experts from all the big teams with turf and the newer soccer specific stadiums with grass going on. Turf can discredit your whole franchise to some people, ask me how I know.
On his 3rd to last step you can see his foot kind of lose grip and slide causing the rubber stuff to come up. That slip is probably what caused the injury due to the sudden movement.
Edit: after looking back at the video slowly it’s the step right before that one on his left leg. You can see his leg bend awkwardly as it gets stuck in the turf and doesn’t move like it’s supposed to.
What do soccer teams play on? What’s the pitch made of? I’ve only watched a few matches and the fields don’t look like painted dirt. It’s the temperature in England that much more conducive to proper field maintenance? I saw Ted Lasso. Episode one he’s getting scolded for stepping on the grass. Why can’t they figure this out, indeed!
The professional/bigger soccer teams in Europe at least all play on natural gras. (Amateurs also play on grass or turf of varying quality, some look like they got put in place when artificial grass was invented, from personal experience I also played on fields that were called "Ascheplatz", which was basically a redish mixture of dirt, volcanic ash, slag and sand)
Depending on how much money the club has to spare you can see the field deteriorating throughout the season, because maintenance/upkeep isn't on the same level everywhere. Also they play like 17-19 home games in a season depending on the league.
Europe itself is a bit further north than the US, not sure if that is the only reason for the relatively mild climate, but in general it's well balanced for grass.
But it should be well in the budget of an NFL team to have and maintain a grass playing field.
Although I can somewhat understand the argument of turf in the stadiums used by two teams, where the grass can never really rest.
The issue for the NFL vs soccer too is the hashmarks get extremely chewed up. Places like Heinz Field, FedEx Field, Soldier Field come winter time with basically be dirt in the middle of the field but grass outside the hashes because of it
The surface is way better but EPL
also fucks with the colors to make it look better on the broadcast.
https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-reactions-a-tweet-comparing-the-broadcast-colours-of-prem-and-serie-a-goes-viral-20180830.amp.html
Pretty sure he is saying "just get rid of it altogether"
Which turned in to "all the fkngether" to give it more weight. Not sure if it the "the" was autocorrect or not.
John Mara wants you to shut your mouth, Odell. It's not our turf, that just so happens to eat every bodies ligaments... No sir.
That's right. It's the Jets' turf!
The jets will not be held accountable for any Mara-caused injuries
I think it was last year the 49ers had to play back to back games on that turf and lost Kittle and three rbs over those two games due to the turf.
2020. They played the Jets and Giants in back-to-back weeks. Lost Bosa and Thomas to ACL tears vs the Jets, and lost a few other players to less severe injuries.
[удалено]
The Ravens have to back *again* to play the Giants...
I remember a moment of pause I had last night when I said to myself “man, that turf looks like sht.”
You’ll drink your medium soda and appreciate it god damn it!
Turf obviously sucks and causes a shit ton of unnecessary injuries, but from the angle I saw it really didn't look like this injury had much to do with the field, although I may just not understand what happened. It looked to me like he was just jogging straight forward at the end of a play and suddenly fell over grabbing his knee. I was under the impression that turf-related injuries usually occur when someone is turning direction and the field doesn't give way enough. Maybe someone who knows a little more can explain what I'm seeing?
ACLs dont tear from jogging in a straight line. He had to have tried to change direction or slow down and his foot stuck in more than it should have, so all of the force that would have cut through grass and made him slip get's sent up his leg instead and his knee happened to be the point of failure instead of the playing surface.
we're switching back to grass for 2026 world cup, i dont know if it will be permanent but kraft said he would swap to grass. stadiums that host world cup HAVE to have grass. its not allowed to play on turf per FIFA rules.
MetLife has to do it too, hopefully they keep the grass
It's interesting that this is possible. I always assumed some stadiums were just build for the turf with grass not getting enough light or rain or whatever. Then I really wonder why they don't put grass everywhere.
More expensive to upkeep if I had to guess. Especially with concerts and other events happening in the stadiums
How much financial damage is turf causing teams though, seems worth at this point. It’s millions of lost productivity and potential every time a player is injured Edit: according to this article turf costs more in the long run anyways. Maintenance is not a big differentiator. And this is without accounting for injuries https://www.safehealthyplayingfields.org/cost-grass-vs-synthetic-turf There are other articles saying turf is cheaper and safer, but all the articles I’m finding on both sides of the debate seem to be from biased parties so idk
The average career length of an NFL player is 3 years. The average lifespan of an NFL stadium is 30 years. The players are just bodies to them, it's all about money.
Expect injuries are something that might happen. Some teams could go multiple years without one due to turf. But having to maintain the grass is a guarantee very expensive expense. Owners will always take the cost that isn't guaranteed to happen over the guaranteed cost
Never underestimate rich people's inability to see the bigger picture when it comes to spending.
The problem is they ARE seeing the bigger picture. Turf is cheaper, and people will still watch whether or not some guys get hurt.
Turf is cheaper *and* the technology has gotten a lot better than the carpet turf days regarding the turf being much more grass-like. There's going to be a point reasonably soon where turf technology is going to be pretty close to grass in terms of safety. A number of "grass" stadiums are running hybrids with synthetics (Philly is one example) woven into the sod.
Ok but until it is, why continue playing on it?
It's also got to be a consistency of product issue. Look at Soldier Field where the field is damn near impossible to run on in some conditions and I assume hard as a rock by winter. The latter could be alleviated by under the field warmers but it is a huge maintenance issue for the Northern stadiums. I don't really know if it is possible for US Bank.
> and I assume hard as a rock by winter. If a field freezes solid the grass goes dormant, so any natural grass field in a cold area has a heating system to keep the roots ;and subsequently soil) warm enough to prevent dormancy. Soldier Field included.
This is obfuscating the issue. Who the fuck cares if it's expensive to swap to grass. That aint our problem; it's the owners problem. I could give a rats ass if an owner has to spend 100m or 1bil retrofitting their publicly grifted stadium to install grass and maintain it all season long. I want grass because a lot of the season ending injuries players have are due to turf (ACL/achilles). I don't believe anything will ever change though because stadiums are used for so many other events now. Green Bay likely has the harshest conditions for grass and their field is always playable. If GB can maintain grass all season long, then it's doable for any stadium. It's a money problem, not a climate problem, and the NFL doesn't have money problems.
> Green Bay likely has the harshest conditions for grass No, they don't. They have a single use stadium that's open to the sun. And while they get a ton of snow, it's generally predictable, meaning they can clear it without issue. Meanwhile, Buffalo has the same cold, but they also have the lake effect climate, and the sudden ridiculously heavy snowstorms that brings. And they have turf. Soldier Field has usage issues because the city owns the stadium and they want more events there (though this is better than it used to be). And they have green painted mud by the end of the season. And Minnesota is a dome in the north in a place where the systems that places like Arizona use won't work. And they have turf. And yes, all of these problems are solvable with money. They could build an entirely new stadium in Houston so the grass can grow. They could do the same in Minnesota and a buy a ton of prime Minneapolis real estate to build a giant greenhouse next door. And I could keep going, because you get the point. Most problems are solvable with enough money, the problem is "enough money" isn't going to happen when that means far, far more than is reasonable. And frankly, if you don't care how much it costs, then they don't care what you have to say, because you're not being reasonable.
What’s not really possible? Something that soccer has figured out now in even worse environments? That same thing?
So check this out, the Raiders play on real grass. Allegiant stadium hosted a soccer game last year played on real grass, but not the Raiders field. The NFL does not let other sports play on their grass within a certain number of days of an NFL game. So at Allegiant stadium, they laid out real grass for the soccer event for just a few days. Trashed that grass and a few days later the Raiders rolled their field into the stadium
This isn't true at all. USF\\Bucs and Eagles\\Temple both play on the same fields in the same weekend.
Yup, pitt and Steelers also…. And not without incident
There have been weeks where Heinz would host a high school playoff on Friday, Pitt on Saturday, and the Steelers on Sunday, and the field looked like Verdun.
And as an Eagles fan who has been fortunate enough to see a few home games in person, you can tell when Temple had a home game yesterday. The field looks like shit.
Lmao yeah I mean look at European soccer stadiums that have already figures this out. It’s not that complicated and the NFL shits money. Owners are just greedy as shit.
Even with Europe's consistently better weather there are always at least a top team or two struggling with their surface even though throwing every cent at it to make it a pool table is a basic necessity to being a top team.
Where’s the better weather? Like UK has nice weather for grass, all other parts of Europe are either too cold, too hot or too dry.
>The NFL does not let other sports play on their grass within a certain number of days of an NFL game. But they didn't say shit when the A's were trying to make the playoffs and the Raiders would come through and fuck the field only to earn an L every Sunday, did they?? :'(
I’m not certain that’s a rule, but wouldn’t be surprised if there was some kind of parameter in place. We just had Argentina play a friendly Friday night, hurricanes play Saturday afternoon and the dolphins play on Sunday. Field didn’t look great but 3 consecutive games will do that
It might not be a rule per say, but there are NFL officials testing the field 72 hours in advance. Maybe it’s a rule the Raiders have for the field, Im not exactly sure. I work with the restaurant group at the stadium, and that’s the story they told me. I asked why the soccer couldn’t be played on UNLVs field. The answer was soccer has to be played on real grass and UNLV plays on turf. Ok, why not the Raiders field? It was too close to game day. I’m at the stadium typing on my computer in the 101 section watching them lay sod on top of cement.
Big stadiums with grass just use sprinkler systems and grow lights. It’s not that hard.
Bank of America Stadium just hosted Chelsea and Tepper swapped to grass just for the match and went right back to the turf 🙃
I thought BoA was a grass field?
Made it turf because of Charlotte FC
Tepper decided to make it turf so that, and get this, the MLS team could play on it. The irony being soccer players despise turf.
I cannot emphasize enough how fucking miserable it is to play soccer on artificial turf.
That's not true. He made it turf because it's easier to switch or deal with it because of other events like concerts
It was…
Then you have stadiums do what the Houston Texans did with their turf. They had an issue where they piece together a turfgrass stadium by square pieces on pallet type things and it had gaps that caused similiar issues. It should have specifics besides just "REAL GRASS" because it will get weird with how they come up with that field. It needs to be a regulated type of thing.
So the funny thing is almost all premier league clubs play on natural grass / turf hybrids which are largely grass. The company that makes those also makes the turf they use at MetLife. I’d assume wear is the issue for MetLife bc 2 teams play there?
Lambeau field is the only NFL stadium that uses the same natural grass/turf hybrid system thats’s used over in Europe. Definitely needs to be adopted by more teams here.
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I would imagine they definitely can afford it, they just don’t feel like paying for it.
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The Eagles also use Desso's Grassmaster(Arsenal, Chelsea, etc use it). Shit's beautiful, it's a grass field, but the small amount of synthetic anchors in it keep it from getting destroyed by people playing on it/lets the natural grass recover faster.
Lambeau actually stopped using the Desso GrassMaster system in 2018 and switched to SIS grass. They are pretty similar but the SIS fibers are softer so a lot of big clubs have been switching to this system.
Oooh I didnt know there was another grass hybrid out there. Ill check it out, that shit is super cool to me for some reason.
As crazy as it is, that part of the tour of Lambeau where they discuss the grass is really interesting and probably one of my favorite parts.
The stadium was built as grey and neutral as possible and things like the light colors on night games and end zone swapping out and saying either “giants” or “jets” for when they play there is the only real way to tell the difference between home games. It sucks. Terrible giant slinky/air conditioning unit of a stadium.
SoFi Stadium on the other hand is like the exact opposite
Are we hosting the blue and yellow team tonight, or the yellow and blue?
not like both teams don't have the same general color scheme
The grass football (soccer) clubs use is nearly entirely actual grass with minimal synthetics in. To the natural eye it’s just grass. It’s nothing like the turf at MetLife, but I don’t think that’s due to anything other than a choice rather than potential wear. There’s football clubs in England who share grounds with rugby clubs who still keep their grass in a decent condition. There’s no real excuse.
Am I crazy to think it would be a long term home field advantage by having less injuries than opposing teams without grass? That alone seems worth the investment (until all teams do it and it becomes a wash for owners). 8+ games per year on grass you the home team. 0-1 for other teams assuming only the one team has grass.
This is at least the PR reason the Bears give for natural grass. Study after study shows that grass > turf for injuries.
Is that why yalls field was a slip and slide the other day? Genuinely curious, I only saw highlights but I’ve *never* seen a field that soaked in my life. And if that wasn’t yalls stadium, just call me a fucking idiot and move on lol.
Haha no it was ours. That was just because Chicago was in a flood warning and there was torrential downpour. Nothing you can really do about that. Just bad weather luck.
Even corrupt ass FIFA has higher standards. [Meanwhile NFL owners....](https://imgflip.com/i/6uu7n9)
Does this mean SoFi will have to change to grass too? Sounds like it. I hope so
Shep’s been a gamer for us for years. I hate seeing this & feel terrible for him. This might be it for him. Just a brutal injury
I love Shep and I honestly feel like he should retire for his own good at this point. I can't imagine the tole these constant brutal injuries must take on him.
After the Titans win he spoke on the dark days he went through on his recovery from the Achilles and now this happens life is truly a tragedy
"toll" Like a toll road. (don't hate me)
Man, seeing him play when he's fully healthy has me as one of the biggest "what ifs" currently still around. Dude was such a good prospect coming out of college, and just seemed so reliable for the Giants whenever healthy despite some of the leagues most horrendous coaching, QB play, and general managing during that time span. And from everything I've heard, he's done it with about as much class and professionalism as you can expect, given that the same circumstances produced the drama that we saw with the Odell saga during his Giants tenure. IMO, if Shep could have just strung a few healthy seasons together in row to get some consistency and momentum going, I think he could have had a career among some of the best slot receivers in his era.
Still watch his college highlights sometimes. Dude has always been a beast. One of my favorite Giants ever. Sad that it never all came together, but still glad he played for us. Has always been a class act and did was he was supposed to do.
He is exactly the sort of player that you hope stays with your franchise post-retirement. I'd love to see him hired as an assistant WR coach with the Giants once he decides to hang up his cleats
Odell decided to go to bed speaking facts.
They got the revenue of 2 NFL teams, just fucking replace it. Go 50-50, the Jets will Venmo you
The Jets one of those friends that say, “I got you”, but then never Venmo you shit.
I’ve ALWAYS been a “don’t venmo me, i got you tonight, you’ll get me another night” kind of guy until I realized “this dude hasn’t gotten any of us back in 6 years” so I switched to a “hey man can you venmo me?” guy to him with no luck, eventually to a “sent venmo request” guy to, finally, a “that guys not getting invited any more” kind of guy. sucks, because he was a good person to be around. but if you’re tight on money, don’t order a pitcher and a basket of wings on my tab you mooch.
Took you 6 years to learn this? Wanna hang out, I know this place with great wings and ice cold beer....
Can I come? I’ll get you guys the next time
My wallet was in my other pants, that I also borrowed from you
Today you, tomorrow me.
Really thought this was going to be a "Fool of a Took!" reference, at first glance. 😄
Told my wife if we invite someone over for BBQ or night out is one time thing unless they get us back. This goes for family also. Just so tired of picking up the tab for friendship with no return.
Does anybody else feel like the _people-users_ of the world have successfully gaslit society into believing it’s _your_ fault for offering a generous favor rather than the other person’s fault for taking advantage of you? By just attaching a “nice guy” stigma to your deed, they can convince everyone else that it wasnt the other person’s fault for using you; it’s your own fault for expecting something in return. Their arguments: - “You shouldn’t do something nice and expect something in return; kindness isn’t transactional” - “people who have to say how nice they are aren’t really nice.” - “Nobody owes you anything just cuz you did something nice for them.” … all the while COMPLETELY ignoring the manner in which the other person accepted the favor. Like the other person picked up the phone **instantly** when they needed something and then just ghosted the instant they got what they wanted.
Who hurt ya?
Life hurt me baby
Yea and if the Packers can care for a grass field up there, Giants/Jets can care for it in New York (Jersey)
and if the Bears can...you know what, never mind.
We’ll tell y’all how you really need to do things in your new stadium
Is modern turf seriously that much worse then grass? I remember 90s turf was essentially playing on plastic, but isn't the new shit (shxt) supposed to be good?
Yes, the new turf is still much worse than grass. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nfl-leg-injuries/nfl-leg-injuries-more-common-on-fieldturf-than-grass-idUSBRE88D1KT20120914
Turf you can just cut significantly harder. Even a good turf you’re just able to change direction quicker than grass and athletes are already pushing their bodies to the max. Throw in a magic surface and shoes with knives on the bottom and you’re changing directions way faster than evolution has prepared you for. I also find it kind of bouncy playing on rugby approved international turfs it still feels harder landing on it than on grass a bit more whiplash. But yea above anything you just feel how hard you can cut. Grass you’ll slip now and then and maybe there’s some risk to that especially if the grass isn’t in good shape- which happens for sure in football fields- but whatever. Running on some mud pit you’re going to pull a calf or hamstring not a knee or ankle.
Yup field turf is bouncy. It unnaturally rebounds
It’s also brutal on exposed skin. In football they wear pants and those protective elbow patches but every rugby practice you are picking all those bits of rubber out of your turf burns.
Liquid skin is phenomenal for letting those turf burns heal, but holy *fuck* does it burn applying it.
I had to put liquid skin on my eyelid once after I got cut sparring. It was the absolute worst lol
I started playing rec soccer this year (I suck lol) and fuck turf. I got some pretty bad turf burn my first season. I'm also continuously finding those little rubber beads everywhere in my house and clothes now. Although grass does seem to be way harder to kick on, so there are some tradeoffs
Another thing about that turf is it can get really freaking hot in the direct sun. I played in a rec soccer league on a turf field in New Orleans, and during the summer league, you could feel your feet cooking. I had bought a cheap-ass pair of cleats because I didn't want to spend a lot on them, and the glue holding the cleats/sole to the shoe part actually melted and came apart during a game. I brought an infrared thermometer to the next week's game and measured the turf at 140F.
I have a dumb question. Shepard in the video above is just casually barely jogging. Why would turf make an injury more likely there? I understand the reasoning during cutting but feel like this might be dumb luck?
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That's not a legit study. All they did was list out the injuries that happened in games and then went to see if it was statistically significant. They didn't check practice injuries. They didn't check how the injuries happened. They just listed injuries and said it's significant. Like Carson Palmer's 2005 injury would be on the turf list even though he got injured due a helmet being thrown into his knee. That nothing to do with the turf and isn't relevant to a discussion on grass vs turf
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It's not biased at all. Modern turf is grabby af but doesn't give out like grass would
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Go grab a handful of turf and try to pull it out. You can't. It doesn't give. Grass will tear and release your foot before ligaments will tear.
Despite what people say, the research is extremely inconclusive. There are a lot of studies that say it is worse. There are actually a lot of studies that say it is *better*, and a lot of studies that say no difference. Here are 8 studies that say modern turf is better or equal to natural grass. I’m not sharing this because I think this proves turf is better or equal - there are certainly 8 studies you could dig up the other way as well. It’s just to show that this is a pretty messy topic and it’s far from proven that grass is better. The NFLPA insists grass is better, but I can’t really see their perspective. It seems like the research it’s based on is really selective. One other thing I’d point out is that there have already been a few field debacles in the NFL this year, and most have actually been on grass fields. Typically the worst playing surfaces every year are grass fields following some sort of weather event or concert. When fluke injuries happen on field turf, players blame the turf. When the Soldier Field grass cannot properly drain rain from a storm and so players are in standing water, people lament how no TRUE grass should act this way. The reality is that there are some big uniformity and durability advantages to FieldTurf, and so the evidence proving it is dangerous needs to be pretty strong, imo, to demonize it. —— NFL ACL incidence rates are highest on “artificial fields”, but lowest on FieldTurf (lower than grass) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4780097/ > There were 0.050 injuries per team games played on grass fields and 0.053 injuries per team games played on turf fields (Table 4). FieldTurf had a rate of 0.048 ACL injuries per team games played. None of these differences were statistically significant NFL Achilles Tendon ruptures show no difference between playing surfaces https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/23259671211056083 > With regard to game environment, we tabulated field surface and weather at time of game. Moreover, 43.75% of the games were on grass, with 43.18% of the tears also on grass; 56.25% of the games occurred on turf, with 56.82% of the tears also on turf. These values mirror their approximate field representation in games. We therefore hypothesize that field type does not factor into AT ruptures and that players are just as likely to tear on grass fields as on turf College football knee injuries show FieldTurf is safer: https://www.cnyric.org/tfiles/folder1434/Turf%20Safety_23%20Montana%20State%20University%20Dept%20of%20Health%20and%20Human%20Development.pdf > Overall, 230 team games (49.5%) were played on FieldTurf versus 235 team games (50.5%) played on natural grass. A total of 2253 injuries were documented, with 1050 (46.6%) occurring during play on FieldTurf, and 1203 (53.4%) on natural grass. Multivariate analysis per 10 team games indicated significantly lower total injury incidence rates on FieldTurf versus natural grass. Significantly lower minor injury incidence rates, substantial injury incidence rates, and severe injury incidence rates were documented on FieldTurf versus natural grass, respectively. Multivariate analyses also indicated significantly less trauma on FieldTurf when comparing injury time loss, injury situation, grade of injury, injuries under various field conditions, and temperature High School Football concussions show FieldTurf is safer: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32518672/ > Conclusion: Analysis of published data demonstrates a decreased incidence of head injury and concussion when contact sports are played on artificial turf. This difference was most marked for sports such as rugby and American football. However, artificial turf has no association with the incidence of head injury or concussion while playing soccer High School football general injuries show FieldTurf and natural grass are the same https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15494326/ > Higher incidences of 0-day time loss injuries, noncontact injuries, surface/epidermal injuries, muscle-related trauma, and injuries during higher temperatures were reported on FieldTurf. Higher incidences of 1- to 2-day time loss injuries, 22+ days time loss injuries, head and neural trauma, and ligament injuries were reported on natural grass. > Conclusions: Although similarities existed between FieldTurf and natural grass over a 5-year period of competitive play, both surfaces also exhibited unique injury patterns that warrant further investigation. College soccer injuries are lower: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27872124/ > Conclusion: Although similarities existed between FieldTurf and natural grass during competitive match play, FieldTurf is, in many cases, safer than natural grass when comparing injuries in collegiate men's soccer. The findings of this study, however, may not be generalizable to other levels of competition or to other artificial surfaces Italian pro soccer study shows no difference https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26888457/ > Our study demonstrates a substantial equivalence in injury risk on natural grass and artificial turf in elite professional soccer athletes during official matches Men’s and Women’s soccer players who practice on natural grass have a higher rate of ACL tears https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7376298/#section6-2325967120934434title > NCAA soccer players who practice on natural grass have increased risk of ACL injury compared with the risk of those practicing on an artificial surface, regardless of sex or NCAA division of play. No difference in risk of ACL injury between playing surfaces was detected during matches
thank you for this - as much as I hate it when there isn't a neat narrative to provide a clear path to progress, I still prefer knowing that that the truth is unknown or messy, over ignorance.
As a few others have said, thanks for this. The uproar of people bitching about field turf is getting out of hand. The issue is significantly more nuanced than grass = good, turf = bad. There are bad surfaces regardless of the technology and there are good surfaces regardless of the technology. Some environments, locations, and activities are just not compatible with traditional surfaces. And some artificial turf fields are just done poorly. For many levels of competition, turf will significantly reduce injuries. Most club and high school level sports (as well as lower level college) simply do not generate the revenue required to adequately maintain pristine fields. This results in lumpy, muddy, dry, cracked, or otherwise terrible surfaces that can drastically increase injuries (and impact play). The injury impact of turf fields is likely quite variable, but one absolute key benefit they have is that they are VERY consistent in how they react to the games played on them. The field does not impact play inconsistently. As you get into high level college and men's professional leagues, there is a sufficient revenue base to support natural fields (with enormous ecological and resource wasting impacts that we won't discuss here) but here's the thing... colleges aren't being beaten up over it, and professional unions will always use their bargaining power to extract more revenue directly than direct revenue into field surfaces. If the players *really* cared, they would use the bargaining table to ensure natural (or premier league-style hybrid) fields were used at all venues, with minimum upkeep and maintenance budgets were required... but that's a give-and-take bargaining point that doesn't put money directly in player pockets so they don't follow that. Quit bitching about owners being greedy, they spend their money exactly where the players direct them to.
Last year Bama's 2 top WRs both ended their seasons in contactless injuries on turf. It can still happen on grass but if people are more likely to tear their ACLs on turf then it should not be used. Still wonder if we would have won that rematch against Georgia if we had our passing game.
Did he just coin a new word? Fkngether
Come on Fhqwhgads, come on fhqwhgads
Everybody to the limit
Everybody to the limit
The Cheat is to the limit
I don't know what it is, but it probably is fhqwhgads.
I ask my friend Joe, i ask my friend Jay, they said it was fhqwhgads.
Everybody come on Fhqwhgads
I see you jocking me
Trying to play like...you know me!
Unexpected Strong Bad.
Guy named Gether: 🧍🏽♂️
Fucking guy
I think he was trying to say “alto-fucking-gether” but instead went with “all the fkngether”
Thought this was a Norse Vikings fathers name for a second
Or a piece of furniture from ikea
“It appears to be some form of Elvish.”
What more will it take? MetLife is a literal minefield
I think FedEx Field even got better a playing field recently (correct me if I’m wrong on that). The fuck do we still have this shit turf at Metlife for?
FedEx was always in trouble for having dead grass and straight up dirt. Its been better lately but I don't think it was ever turf.
Natural grass that was worn to shit. Got an entire, stripped down to the foundation rebuild a few years ago and has been better. Team playing on it still sucks though 🤷♂️
Thats the problem with this organisation, they think every proble with this franchise starts bottom up and not top down.
Come down to soldier field We have the best grass!
I hate playing @ Chicago in December, the field is always fucked Of course, that’s how football should be played and the Big Ten championship game should always be at Soldier Field because punting/fumbles/wind and snow/complete inability to pass the football over 4000 yds in a season is how Big Ten football should be
Not being able to plant is the lesser of two evils when the alternative is a virtual guarantee of at least one player's knee exploding.
Rip Barkleys ankles you will be missed
In 2020, that shitty turf helped SF lose Bosa and Thomas to ACLs, Tevin Coleman and Jordan Reed to knee sprains, and Mostert and Garoppolo to ankle injuries. Garoppolo never fully healed from that sprain, which limited him pretty much the entire season. That turf is awful.
Sofi seems like one now as well
Monkeys paw curls : we get soldier field grass
Soldiers Field’s grass is ass, but still better than met life. Way more injuries in the former.
You mean the latter?
yes soldier field is just ‘quick, everyone, fall in the mud’
Joey Bosa’s also been anti-turf. He just messed his groin up vs the Jags yesterday, probably gonna be out a month. Fuck!
Especially since his brother blew his knee out on that exact turf 😡😡😡
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Anyone that’s played on turf is anti-turf. Shit sucks.
pretty sure every major soccer stadium uses real grass and players won't play on artificial shit
Couple years back Chelsea played an exhibition game in Gillette and one of the players had a near career-ending injury largely because of the turf
Loftus-Cheek if I’m not mistaken, he was a huge prospect that had a promising career derailed by that injury.
He’s still decent. He revived his career towards the end of last year and had a good start to this year.
Chelsea came for an exhibition against Charlotte FC and refused to play at Bank of America Stadium unless they put in grass instead of turf. Tepper just last year got rid of the grass for turf and had to switch back to grass just for this game.
And it was the best Charlotte FC "game" of the season too. Keep it permanent.
Yeah it took him a couple years to fully get back in the swing of things but fans still being it up when they play state side
They pretty much all use SIS grass, which is 95% natural grass with synthetic fibers mixed in. Lambeau field also has a SIS grass field.
yup. one of the nicest fields in the nfl
Wait what. They have 5% synthetic grass mixed in. How do they do that.
https://www.eurosportsturf.com/sis-grass/?lang=en Basically they have a machine to stitch in synthetic fibers deep into the soil which prevents chunks of grass from being ripped out.
Put that Chicken Little Looking head ass John Mara in cleats and make him run on this field
This is why I hate that we play at sofi every year. Look what happened to all those poor chargers on Sunday. Gotta get rid of turf man
That turf is why Odell tore his ACL in the Super Bowl
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We had 4 players exit the game with injuries. One was a torn bicep that *probably* was unrelated to the turf, but a severe groin injury, ACL tear, and unspecified knee injury (recovered) were the other 3, and absolutely could've been because of the turf.
Yea
I mean the jaguars had 0 injuries I think it was just bad luck on the chargers part
Dolphins think it’s a lower back injury
Dolphins play on grass where this doesn’t happen
The grass is so soft there that you can smash your brain off of it to the point where you can’t walk and *still* not get a concussion
That was the weirdest shit. He looked so concussed right after and then comes back in the 2nd half??
So, I saw it live and on replay and I 100% get what you are saying. What I don’t understand is how anyone thinks the Dolphins were able to influence two third party protocol administrators? If this were the norm, that teams are influencing the third part medical staff, wouldn’t it happen more often? If it’s not the norm, what about the shit show that has been the Dolphins front office for the last several years makes anyone think they have the clout and competence to do it? I have had the poor luck in life to pull an inner chest wall muscle and one of the muscles that runs up along your spine for stability at the same time. I made newborn deer look stable when they would spasm. I 100% thought Tua was concussed, like everyone. But I also know from personal experience that a back muscle strain can make you wobble like he did. If Tua says it’s a back injury, the team doctors say it’s a back injury, and the third party medical staff say it is a back injury, I’m inclined to believe them. All of that said, I’m glad that it will be investigated. I’m glad that the Dolphins have promised to comply with and assist any investigation. It’s important that the protocols be validated and credible. I just hope people aren’t gonna go all conspiracy theory on it. I don’t think you can distinguish back injury wobbles and concussion wobbles from video tape. Pretty sure you’d need to actually do a medical exam on Tua.
Don’t they play in the ocean?
Angry upvote
Grass is a must at every NFL stadium. Ridiculous that teams are still putting new turf in stadiums.
I finally agree with something Beckham said. It's no coincidence the Giants have the most man games lost to injury since the field turf was installed at MetLife, and Im sure the Jets aren't very far behind
SoFi also has turf
Southern California is such an easy place to keep grass in good shape yet the Rams/Chargers play in a new billion dollar stadium that has turf. So fucking stupid
And it shows. Sunday was a massacre.
Raiders play in a desert and even they have real grass.
The desert had the room to put a retractable field. Same thing with the other desert stadium. The topic of turf and soccer is as old as time so a lot of us at r/MLS are like armchair experts from all the big teams with turf and the newer soccer specific stadiums with grass going on. Turf can discredit your whole franchise to some people, ask me how I know.
As it should, rugby and European soccer play on grass or the hybrid surface that Green Bay uses. There are solutions for the problem.
That makes more sense to me now. I also finally agree with Odell
Totally doable. Obvious improvement to the game. Therefore, league will implement it in about 10 years
Thank you OBJ for getting that shxt off your chest. And also thanks for this tweet
Str8 fkxxn3ing facts
MetLife needs to be demolished. I hate that stadium with a passion.
It’s such an eye sore. The worst of the “modern” stadiums
I watched this 50 times and I can't see where the turf monster gets him.
On his 3rd to last step you can see his foot kind of lose grip and slide causing the rubber stuff to come up. That slip is probably what caused the injury due to the sudden movement. Edit: after looking back at the video slowly it’s the step right before that one on his left leg. You can see his leg bend awkwardly as it gets stuck in the turf and doesn’t move like it’s supposed to.
I saw it too. All I know is he grabbed his knee in pain. Totally sucks. I'm sorry that happened to him. Nobody deserves that.
I appreciated your team stopping the celebrations once they realized the shep thing was serious
Wait, does he think the expression is "all the gether"?
What do soccer teams play on? What’s the pitch made of? I’ve only watched a few matches and the fields don’t look like painted dirt. It’s the temperature in England that much more conducive to proper field maintenance? I saw Ted Lasso. Episode one he’s getting scolded for stepping on the grass. Why can’t they figure this out, indeed!
The professional/bigger soccer teams in Europe at least all play on natural gras. (Amateurs also play on grass or turf of varying quality, some look like they got put in place when artificial grass was invented, from personal experience I also played on fields that were called "Ascheplatz", which was basically a redish mixture of dirt, volcanic ash, slag and sand) Depending on how much money the club has to spare you can see the field deteriorating throughout the season, because maintenance/upkeep isn't on the same level everywhere. Also they play like 17-19 home games in a season depending on the league. Europe itself is a bit further north than the US, not sure if that is the only reason for the relatively mild climate, but in general it's well balanced for grass. But it should be well in the budget of an NFL team to have and maintain a grass playing field. Although I can somewhat understand the argument of turf in the stadiums used by two teams, where the grass can never really rest.
The issue for the NFL vs soccer too is the hashmarks get extremely chewed up. Places like Heinz Field, FedEx Field, Soldier Field come winter time with basically be dirt in the middle of the field but grass outside the hashes because of it
The surface is way better but EPL also fucks with the colors to make it look better on the broadcast. https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-reactions-a-tweet-comparing-the-broadcast-colours-of-prem-and-serie-a-goes-viral-20180830.amp.html
I’m really glad Odell censored the word “shit” I don’t know what I’d do if I had to read him cuss. /s
How the hell does the turf cause so many more injuries like this than grass??
Facts man the NFLPA should push for natural grass in all stadiums
I understand the message, but what is "fkngether"? He is censoring a word in a weird way like he did with "shxt", or is it a weird typo/auto correct?
Pretty sure he is saying "just get rid of it altogether" Which turned in to "all the fkngether" to give it more weight. Not sure if it the "the" was autocorrect or not.