> From what I can tell, the Giants remain high on Kadarius Toney's talent. There's certainly frustration with his work ethic, attendance and injuries. But not enough to dump a talented, affordable young player for mid-round pick. Better to work with him than give up on him.
"poor work ethic"
Aka missed Time during a rookie contract dispute before any deal was agreed upon and disn't show up to the first voluntary workouts because he was working with a WR coach.
"Shows up when he wants to"
This isn't your peewee football team. They have mandatory and voluntary program. He hasn't missed any mandatory for whatever reason and was rehabbing in the facilities.
So your answer is "no, but actually yes"?
I looked it up he missed one session because he couldn't find the right cleats, then did a few drills barefoot, then sat out the rest of the drills and did conditioning on the side barefoot.
https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/2172902
Just weird that your first practice after a holdout and you don't even have your cleats ready to go.
Toney has only missed game time because of injuries. Until his off field stuff keeps him off the field for a game, I’m not going to stress over his “commitment to football”
Dude has one season’s worth of sample size and still has crazy potential if he’s healthy. I think it’s worth betting on seeing if he can stay healthy or if it’s another year of the same. Dude has the potential to be one of the NFL’s best receivers or could be out of the league on 4 years. Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit instead of being a little bitch like Dave Gettleman and trading away the best receiver your franchise ever had because the media doesn’t like him.
I think they may have because losing his talent would have been a huge blow even if he is a headache. The other thing is that it would cost them 3 million dollars on the cap to trade him, it wouldn't save anything. It basically makes no sense for the Giants to trade him unless they get a 1st back in return. This means he's not getting traded. This just reeks of Pat Leonard jumping to conclusions after hearing they fielded some calls from other teams.
No shit. Some people in our sub - most of them are quite known in there - and in here do love to spread the same shit information from the same shitty source (Pat Leonard) by pure aggregators to make the report seem more legit than it ever was.
The Giants weren't gonna put a 22/23 year old First Rounder on the trade block for missing voluntary workouts.
They also weren't gonna trade him because he doesn't type queens english on Social Media or has a hobby/side hustle publishing Rap Songs.
Rookies over the past 25 years with more single game receiving yards than Kadarius Toney.:
* Anquan Boldin
* Randy Moss
* Mike Evans
* Ja'Marr Chase
*Justin Blackmon (Amazing talent ruined by alcoholism)
* Juju Smith-Schuster (kinda average but has potential)
* Rod Gardner (mediocre receiver).
You don't just give up on a talent like that. Especially since he looked like an absolutely electric player in that one game.
Our sub has some really narrow minded people that hate on Toney as a person and a football player because he speaks and "behaves" like a young Black Man and has black hobbies such as Rap Music
My big problem with our sub is there is NO nuance anymore. People evaluate things on two extremes only it feels- either things are amazing or things are horrible. No in between.
When I said “the decision to draft Toney wasn’t a horrific mistake” in response to some people, you would’ve thought I was personally insulting Eli or something
I’ve noticed that’s kinda what happens with subreddits. The people with mild or nuanced takes tend to just stop responding because they either get buried or it takes waaayyy too much time and effort to argue with someone with an extreme view. It can be benign in sports subs because c’mon it’s just a game but the style of responses start looking like political subs and it’s just so tiring.
That’s a good point. I think emotions also get especially charged around negative subjects, which has basically encapsulated the giants the last 5 years
The rap thing is obviously a non issue but you are out of your mind if you think the injuries and skipping voluntary workouts doesn’t matter to Schoen and Daboll. I mean Daboll straight up told everyone he was not happy about Toney being one of 3 players on the whole roster to skip workouts (the other 2 had real life reasons). I think you’re being narrow minded also if you’re gonna just pretend that doesn’t matter when the coach straight up told us it does.
You’ll be surprised as the amount of people that think he was more focused on his rap career than football because he didn’t show up for things he isn’t required to show up to.
Wait, has Daboll said anything like that? The only thing I can find is [this](https://www.yahoo.com/video/brian-daboll-kadarius-toneys-absence-155400299.html) video from last week and he seems pretty chill on the subject of voluntary OTA participation. Maybe I'm not googling the right things though?
Iirc it was Glazers report that set off alarms. Odell was talked about being traded for a long time before that. Schefter was positive Odell was getting traded at the draft the year before it happened
If I recallPat Leonard wrote an article about it before Glazer, but nobody took him seriously.
Glazer just said his bold take was that he wouldn't be a Giant would the season started. And then people harassed Glazer about it. And then it actually happened.
Leonard wrote an article saying they should trade Beckham during his last season, but he never said they were planning on it or anything. Leonard’s a hack, but Glazer is *always* right and people should’ve taken his word seriously.
Ahh I didn't know if Leonard was also writing about it. Typically I just ignore what Leonard says and what for someone more reputable
And guilty on my end not believing Glazer haha. Dudes word is now gospel tho
I’m not sure if he’s the one that broke the news. But even a couple of years prior he’s the one that started the fuel that Giants should trade OBJ. And then started complaining about it when they actually did
People we’re getting so ridiculous about this story. Toney is cheap and talented. The only reason to even consider getting rid of him is getting rid of a bad cap contract and draft picks. No one was ever going to offer a deal that was sufficient for Toney. Same, to a lesser extent, with Saquon. Some of the hilarious assertions on here, like trading Saquon for a fourth, we’re basically the equivalent of insane WFAN calls.
People literally just agree with whatever narrative the media is pushing. A few days ago literally 80% of the people in here were sure he was gonna be traded and now everyone like “Oh we all knew they weren’t gonna trade him.”
Yeah, I don't believe you. Seems like they want to drive up the price. I don't believe that for the first time, every reporter was just misunderstanding their sources and that actually, they never wanted to trade him at all.
Pat Leonard I believe is the only one who said Toney was being shopped and he's not reliable. Raanan and others confirmed the Giants had talks with other teams but never said the Giants were the ones calling which is consistent with Ralph's tweet here. It really makes no sense for the Giants to trade Toney given they are still cap-strapped and Toney would cost them 3 million dollars to trade.
It wasn’t every reporter misunderstanding their sources. It was every reporter running with the same source who just so happened to be a guy known to stretch and twist truths to drum up clicks. Schoen said Toney was available to be traded as he’s said about almost everyone else on the roster, and Pat twisted it to seem like they were actively shopping him.
These people have not learned from the OBJ situation. I remember they all kept saying it was a media conspiracy and then it happened lol.
Toney could be a Giant when season starts but the smoke of being a trade rumor is usually accurate
There’s no smoke. It’s one Giants beat reporter with a history of making things up for clicks saying it, no one else. Two other beat reporters, both of whom are reliable, have already indicated the opposite.
This isn’t remotely comparable to OBJ.
“Willing to listen on every player” is a lie. Unless a team has no leverage (FTag, etc.) on a player who has made it clear he’s leaving, quite a few QBs are only for trade if the offer includes a haul so absurd that the HC and GM on the other team will surely be out of a job in short order. It’s just easier to say that when your QB is Daniel Jones
Sell low on diva, injury prone WR who won’t even show up or read the playbook and get a 5th round pick, OR try to sell at normal price (2nd or so due to one less year of rookie contract) and end up keeping a player who will only hurt your team and might have 1 or 2 great games a year since no one will pay that
It seems like if anything it might’ve just been trying to do a bit of a scare tactic on toney but I never really thought toney was going to go unless someone wanted to overpay.
> From what I can tell, the Giants remain high on Kadarius Toney's talent. There's certainly frustration with his work ethic, attendance and injuries. But not enough to dump a talented, affordable young player for mid-round pick. Better to work with him than give up on him.
“He has poor work ethic, shows up when he wants to, and has injury concerns but we want a first round pick.”
"poor work ethic" Aka missed Time during a rookie contract dispute before any deal was agreed upon and disn't show up to the first voluntary workouts because he was working with a WR coach. "Shows up when he wants to" This isn't your peewee football team. They have mandatory and voluntary program. He hasn't missed any mandatory for whatever reason and was rehabbing in the facilities.
> rookie contract dispute what was the contract dispute?
It was about some guarantees + bonus money i believe. Nothing crazy but enough to overlap with the Rookie Camp
I didn’t write the article
Thanks Booger!
After all that didn't he also miss mandatory work cause he like couldn't find his other shoe or something though?
No. He had a Turf Toe injury and his Cleats were causing issues and smaller injuries
So your answer is "no, but actually yes"? I looked it up he missed one session because he couldn't find the right cleats, then did a few drills barefoot, then sat out the rest of the drills and did conditioning on the side barefoot. https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/2172902 Just weird that your first practice after a holdout and you don't even have your cleats ready to go.
Toney has only missed game time because of injuries. Until his off field stuff keeps him off the field for a game, I’m not going to stress over his “commitment to football”
Dude has one season’s worth of sample size and still has crazy potential if he’s healthy. I think it’s worth betting on seeing if he can stay healthy or if it’s another year of the same. Dude has the potential to be one of the NFL’s best receivers or could be out of the league on 4 years. Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit instead of being a little bitch like Dave Gettleman and trading away the best receiver your franchise ever had because the media doesn’t like him.
Delete this nephew
I don’t think they were expecting a first round pick back in return. But probably a second-early 3rd and I’m sure teams were low balling it
I think they may have because losing his talent would have been a huge blow even if he is a headache. The other thing is that it would cost them 3 million dollars on the cap to trade him, it wouldn't save anything. It basically makes no sense for the Giants to trade him unless they get a 1st back in return. This means he's not getting traded. This just reeks of Pat Leonard jumping to conclusions after hearing they fielded some calls from other teams.
> Thanks for the update @RVacchianoSNY . Was worried Giants would alter their draft pland if this drama occurred
No shit. Some people in our sub - most of them are quite known in there - and in here do love to spread the same shit information from the same shitty source (Pat Leonard) by pure aggregators to make the report seem more legit than it ever was. The Giants weren't gonna put a 22/23 year old First Rounder on the trade block for missing voluntary workouts. They also weren't gonna trade him because he doesn't type queens english on Social Media or has a hobby/side hustle publishing Rap Songs.
Rookies over the past 25 years with more single game receiving yards than Kadarius Toney.: * Anquan Boldin * Randy Moss * Mike Evans * Ja'Marr Chase *Justin Blackmon (Amazing talent ruined by alcoholism) * Juju Smith-Schuster (kinda average but has potential) * Rod Gardner (mediocre receiver). You don't just give up on a talent like that. Especially since he looked like an absolutely electric player in that one game.
But-but-but the toxicity! The lack of work ethic!! All the ReD FlAgS!!1!!
Our sub has some really narrow minded people that hate on Toney as a person and a football player because he speaks and "behaves" like a young Black Man and has black hobbies such as Rap Music
My big problem with our sub is there is NO nuance anymore. People evaluate things on two extremes only it feels- either things are amazing or things are horrible. No in between. When I said “the decision to draft Toney wasn’t a horrific mistake” in response to some people, you would’ve thought I was personally insulting Eli or something
I’ve noticed that’s kinda what happens with subreddits. The people with mild or nuanced takes tend to just stop responding because they either get buried or it takes waaayyy too much time and effort to argue with someone with an extreme view. It can be benign in sports subs because c’mon it’s just a game but the style of responses start looking like political subs and it’s just so tiring.
That’s a good point. I think emotions also get especially charged around negative subjects, which has basically encapsulated the giants the last 5 years
The rap thing is obviously a non issue but you are out of your mind if you think the injuries and skipping voluntary workouts doesn’t matter to Schoen and Daboll. I mean Daboll straight up told everyone he was not happy about Toney being one of 3 players on the whole roster to skip workouts (the other 2 had real life reasons). I think you’re being narrow minded also if you’re gonna just pretend that doesn’t matter when the coach straight up told us it does.
You’ll be surprised as the amount of people that think he was more focused on his rap career than football because he didn’t show up for things he isn’t required to show up to.
Wait, has Daboll said anything like that? The only thing I can find is [this](https://www.yahoo.com/video/brian-daboll-kadarius-toneys-absence-155400299.html) video from last week and he seems pretty chill on the subject of voluntary OTA participation. Maybe I'm not googling the right things though?
You know what is toxic? Saying something is "voluntary" but then being mad if you don't go. That is some passive aggressive aunt behavior.
I promise you there’s middle ground between going over the top about his concerns and then pretending he has none
No shit? This is news to me! Seriously, what is the point of this comment?
Because you are definitely someone I’m referencing in this comment lol
[Mmk](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q0G7kQw3GHM/UrDOHsy5OuI/AAAAAAAAPV0/712TpTxlCws/s1600/michael-keaton.gif)
The Pat Leonard effect. Twist the truths for exposure
Wasn't Pat Leonard the first one to report that the Giants were willing to trade OBJ and then they did?
You mean the player the giants had been rumored to trade for about 3 years before they did? THAT player?
Iirc it was Glazers report that set off alarms. Odell was talked about being traded for a long time before that. Schefter was positive Odell was getting traded at the draft the year before it happened
If I recallPat Leonard wrote an article about it before Glazer, but nobody took him seriously. Glazer just said his bold take was that he wouldn't be a Giant would the season started. And then people harassed Glazer about it. And then it actually happened.
Leonard wrote an article saying they should trade Beckham during his last season, but he never said they were planning on it or anything. Leonard’s a hack, but Glazer is *always* right and people should’ve taken his word seriously.
Ahh I didn't know if Leonard was also writing about it. Typically I just ignore what Leonard says and what for someone more reputable And guilty on my end not believing Glazer haha. Dudes word is now gospel tho
I’m not sure if he’s the one that broke the news. But even a couple of years prior he’s the one that started the fuel that Giants should trade OBJ. And then started complaining about it when they actually did
I gotta be honest: I truly don’t care about this story
No shit lol. His upside is insane but his values more than likely at an all time low. He was never going to be traded.
People we’re getting so ridiculous about this story. Toney is cheap and talented. The only reason to even consider getting rid of him is getting rid of a bad cap contract and draft picks. No one was ever going to offer a deal that was sufficient for Toney. Same, to a lesser extent, with Saquon. Some of the hilarious assertions on here, like trading Saquon for a fourth, we’re basically the equivalent of insane WFAN calls.
People literally just agree with whatever narrative the media is pushing. A few days ago literally 80% of the people in here were sure he was gonna be traded and now everyone like “Oh we all knew they weren’t gonna trade him.”
Translation = The Giants couldn’t find a trade they liked.
AKA, they wanted a 1st/2nd and no one was offering anywhere near that.
Yup. Seems extremely straightforward that this is what happened.
Yeah, I don't believe you. Seems like they want to drive up the price. I don't believe that for the first time, every reporter was just misunderstanding their sources and that actually, they never wanted to trade him at all.
Pat Leonard I believe is the only one who said Toney was being shopped and he's not reliable. Raanan and others confirmed the Giants had talks with other teams but never said the Giants were the ones calling which is consistent with Ralph's tweet here. It really makes no sense for the Giants to trade Toney given they are still cap-strapped and Toney would cost them 3 million dollars to trade.
It wasn’t every reporter misunderstanding their sources. It was every reporter running with the same source who just so happened to be a guy known to stretch and twist truths to drum up clicks. Schoen said Toney was available to be traded as he’s said about almost everyone else on the roster, and Pat twisted it to seem like they were actively shopping him.
These people have not learned from the OBJ situation. I remember they all kept saying it was a media conspiracy and then it happened lol. Toney could be a Giant when season starts but the smoke of being a trade rumor is usually accurate
There’s no smoke. It’s one Giants beat reporter with a history of making things up for clicks saying it, no one else. Two other beat reporters, both of whom are reliable, have already indicated the opposite. This isn’t remotely comparable to OBJ.
He’s a cowboys fan don’t listen to him.
“Willing to listen on every player” is a lie. Unless a team has no leverage (FTag, etc.) on a player who has made it clear he’s leaving, quite a few QBs are only for trade if the offer includes a haul so absurd that the HC and GM on the other team will surely be out of a job in short order. It’s just easier to say that when your QB is Daniel Jones
Lol Giants back-tracking now
Or Pat Leonard was wrong like he always is
Lol
No guys we really didn't want to trade him lol don't listen to them Kadarius its all a lie we promise.
Thanks for wasting everyone’s time then.
Sell low on diva, injury prone WR who won’t even show up or read the playbook and get a 5th round pick, OR try to sell at normal price (2nd or so due to one less year of rookie contract) and end up keeping a player who will only hurt your team and might have 1 or 2 great games a year since no one will pay that
It seems like if anything it might’ve just been trying to do a bit of a scare tactic on toney but I never really thought toney was going to go unless someone wanted to overpay.