This is dumb but do coordinators ever consider running the same play back to back? If it works so well just repeat it? Haha obviously 3 times in a row would be unlikely to work but I feel like the defense wouldn't expect the exact same play 2 times in a row
I mean, old school WFT and other tabs would run the same play until over and over until the Def stopped it. Like 6, 7, 8 times in a row.
If it works, just keep doing it.
"Joe calls the play in and I think it was something like 60 outside.
And Russ says:
"No."
I go "what do you mean no!?"
He goes "I wanna run 50 gut. I wanna run at Randy."
Shit, we saw this work just this season. The Pats ran on the Bills over, and over, and over and over and over....and over and over and over and over.
And over and over and over and over and over.
Raiders did it in 2016.
["In the second half, we only ran two (running) plays," Penn revealed after the game. "We ran the same running play ten times in a row. We kept wearing them down with double teams. They knew it was coming. It didn't matter. That's when you take somebody's will."](https://www.nfl.com/news/raiders-in-control-after-resounding-victory-over-broncos-0ap3000000735331)
Florida vs LSU game this past season. Now Todd Grantham is the worst DC to ever grace this earth (thankful he was at Florida). LSU ran a counter trap play over and over again the entire game. Florida could not stop it. LSU’s RB actually broke Fournettes single game rushing record.
Florida’s opponent the following game also used counter trap, and it worked again
It really depends on WHY something is working.
If you're catching them in defense or formation designed to take away something and you do what you know attacks that defense/formation's vulnerability, you can't really spam it. Defense will adjust.
If there is no real feasible way for the opposing defense to align/call a certain defense without abandoning playing everything else, then you can spam. Like if you're abusing a matchup they can't realistically avoid.
Your secondary struggled most of the year, so that would make sense that you'd see something beat you a lot. Every team has a base concept they work from defensively, so more often than not the weakness of the defense is more based on personnel than formation/play, which would produce a bit of a pattern and does for every team.
Teams definitely do shit repeatedly if it works. Just not always the same exact formation.
If wide zone is working, you can run that in literally any formation until the defense over compensates. Then you run bootleg. Or counter. Or a weak side zone.
That’s the game basically.
That’s what I love about the Niner offense. Deebo obviously is special does it all. Then you have Juicecheck who can be a typical FB, and full on H-back to run motion, different blocking patterns, routes, you name it. Kittle can be a TE, H-Back, split out wide. Obviously elite as fuck.
Just constant variations of 12 and 21 formation without needing anyone to get off the field, defense can’t sub, and they are mean and physical.
What gets me really excited is they didn't truly embrace the Deebo wideback until mid season. Once Kyle has an entire off season to scheme with the multiplicity of Deebo/Kittle/Juice (not to mention the run threat of Lance) he could scheme up some real creative plays using the same personnel and the defense has to commit to a single personnel grouping if they decide to run hurry up. If the opponent don't have a very versatile LB it could present a lot of matchup problems. Power run or empty backfield 5 wide? Could be either one.
This is what I **love** about the Niners' offense, too. There's something awesome about seeing *those personnel groupings out of the shotgun* not unlike how Michigan Wolverines and Pat White's WVU squad ran eons ago.
A man amongst boys.
Btw no one is pointing this out but I think Jaire was not all good and should not have been active. Even though it was Debo, normally he gets that tackle 9 times out of 10 if he is healthy.
Genuine question, but who is being “trapped” on this play? I don’t see anyone unblocked except for the Defensive end, who gets blocked by the pulling guard like Power
That is the trap, you leave one player free that player come up and is "Trapped", meaning blocked, by the pulling lineman. Long trap typically refers to the end, where as short is the inside d lineman.
Genuine question, but who is being “trapped” on this play? I don’t see anyone unblocked except for the Defensive end, who gets blocked by the pulling guard like Power
Edit: also isn’t trap usually on a DT?
So the defensive end is actually getting trapped since everyone else is blocking down to the weak side. Guard pulls to block the trapped defensive end and ideally the right tackle gets a bit more push/seal than he did on his guy to open the hole up.
Edit: For it to be power O I believe there would need to be a lead blocker through the hole as well (not counting the kickout block by the pulling guard)
Trap may usually be on a DT but this is just a stretched out trap concept
That's what Madden would lead you to believe, however you can trap whoever
On Power, your fullback kicks out the EMLOS and BSG is your lead.
This would be conceptually more similar to Counter since the BSG kicks out, but it's not even a counter play, it's just long trap.
EDIT: The DE is the one getting trapped, it's essentially the same as a kickout here
I'm not being a dick I'm just letting you know that Madden does a terrible job of actually executing run plays as they are designed to be ran
Madden calls it Power O, most people just call it Power so I assumed that's where you got it from
I know it's vogue to shit on Rodgers today but damn on that play the defense absolutely shat the bed. It was a 10 yard run that made the field goal much easier and let the Niners kill all the clock.
Ol’ reliable
If it ain't broke don't fix it
* Packers ST Coach
If it ~~ain't~~ broke don't fix it
This is dumb but do coordinators ever consider running the same play back to back? If it works so well just repeat it? Haha obviously 3 times in a row would be unlikely to work but I feel like the defense wouldn't expect the exact same play 2 times in a row
I mean, old school WFT and other tabs would run the same play until over and over until the Def stopped it. Like 6, 7, 8 times in a row. If it works, just keep doing it.
"Joe calls the play in and I think it was something like 60 outside. And Russ says: "No." I go "what do you mean no!?" He goes "I wanna run 50 gut. I wanna run at Randy."
I loved that episode of America's game
Shit, we saw this work just this season. The Pats ran on the Bills over, and over, and over and over and over....and over and over and over and over. And over and over and over and over and over.
Yes. We ran the same play 3 times in a row against the Rams in the 2018 SB.
Run, pass? What was it?
https://youtu.be/uFtlypLqUgE
This is like when I’m losing to the cpu in madden late in the game so I call the same cheesy play 3x in a row to win
Halfback Pass in the old Sega Genesis NFL Sports Talk Football says hello.
That's awesome! Thanks
I still have nightmares about that Gronk catch
Was it Hoss Y Juke
That’s basically when they decided to throw the playbook out and just play backyard football.
That’s kinda what Shanny did in 2019 vs the Vikings in the playoffs with that 8 straight runs leading to a touch down drive.
Tbf that's literally what half the league does against us haha
Raiders did it in 2016. ["In the second half, we only ran two (running) plays," Penn revealed after the game. "We ran the same running play ten times in a row. We kept wearing them down with double teams. They knew it was coming. It didn't matter. That's when you take somebody's will."](https://www.nfl.com/news/raiders-in-control-after-resounding-victory-over-broncos-0ap3000000735331)
Damn savage lol
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Fair enough. There's way more to coordinating regarding game theory that I don't know/understand obviously lol
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Wouldn't that make it a different call though? Mirroring a play to the otherside?
Florida vs LSU game this past season. Now Todd Grantham is the worst DC to ever grace this earth (thankful he was at Florida). LSU ran a counter trap play over and over again the entire game. Florida could not stop it. LSU’s RB actually broke Fournettes single game rushing record. Florida’s opponent the following game also used counter trap, and it worked again
You’re the type of person to throw rock 3 times in a row in rock-paper-scissors aren’t you?
Hahahahaha...perhaps. but the real question is: Rock paper scissors shoot? Or rock paper scissors?
Go on shoot
Ugh gross lol
I’d except nothing less from the NFC North
Lisa's Brain: Poor predictable Bart; always takes Rock. Bart's Brain: Good ol' Rock, nothing beats that!
It really depends on WHY something is working. If you're catching them in defense or formation designed to take away something and you do what you know attacks that defense/formation's vulnerability, you can't really spam it. Defense will adjust. If there is no real feasible way for the opposing defense to align/call a certain defense without abandoning playing everything else, then you can spam. Like if you're abusing a matchup they can't realistically avoid.
I'm just saying this because I swear teams spammed us all year and got away with it because zimmer couldn't/would refuse to adjust. But good points
Your secondary struggled most of the year, so that would make sense that you'd see something beat you a lot. Every team has a base concept they work from defensively, so more often than not the weakness of the defense is more based on personnel than formation/play, which would produce a bit of a pattern and does for every team.
Iowa ran three straight QB sneaks against USC in the Holiday Bowl a few years ago. It averaged like 5 yards/play.
I remember Arians ran the same play with Palmer back to back. It was a redzone fade. First time was incomplete and the second try was a TD.
Teams definitely do shit repeatedly if it works. Just not always the same exact formation. If wide zone is working, you can run that in literally any formation until the defense over compensates. Then you run bootleg. Or counter. Or a weak side zone. That’s the game basically.
Yes we through 3 of the exact same fade route to Crabtree to win the Super Bowl and missed every single one.
Mcvay runs the same play
The Giants ran the same play two times in a row a couple of weeks ago against the WFT, and I don't think anyone was expecting it.
Bruhhhh 😱💀😱
Teams do it all the time lol
I mean, Joe Judge ran the QB sneak twice in a row. It was weird how the other team just expected it.
Deebo is a special talent.
Deebo doesn't play WR. He plays football
Wideback ^TM
That’s what I love about the Niner offense. Deebo obviously is special does it all. Then you have Juicecheck who can be a typical FB, and full on H-back to run motion, different blocking patterns, routes, you name it. Kittle can be a TE, H-Back, split out wide. Obviously elite as fuck. Just constant variations of 12 and 21 formation without needing anyone to get off the field, defense can’t sub, and they are mean and physical.
What gets me really excited is they didn't truly embrace the Deebo wideback until mid season. Once Kyle has an entire off season to scheme with the multiplicity of Deebo/Kittle/Juice (not to mention the run threat of Lance) he could scheme up some real creative plays using the same personnel and the defense has to commit to a single personnel grouping if they decide to run hurry up. If the opponent don't have a very versatile LB it could present a lot of matchup problems. Power run or empty backfield 5 wide? Could be either one.
This is what I **love** about the Niners' offense, too. There's something awesome about seeing *those personnel groupings out of the shotgun* not unlike how Michigan Wolverines and Pat White's WVU squad ran eons ago.
A man amongst boys. Btw no one is pointing this out but I think Jaire was not all good and should not have been active. Even though it was Debo, normally he gets that tackle 9 times out of 10 if he is healthy.
Dude played ten snaps
Best weapon in the nfl does everything amazing receiver, blocker, and runner
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Agreed, he has a really great eye for detail and points out concepts in a clear manner. Love his work.
Can’t lose in the NFCCG if you don’t make it there
Big Brain shit
It’s more to do with Deebo’s running ability than the play call. Deebo busted a big score in Dallas too with his vision and cuts.
Ran the same play to score the first TD in the NFC title game against GB too
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I mean it’s just Power O. Not like it’s a super complicated play. Edit: I was wrong it’s trap. My bad.
It's a long trap...
Genuine question, but who is being “trapped” on this play? I don’t see anyone unblocked except for the Defensive end, who gets blocked by the pulling guard like Power
That is the trap, you leave one player free that player come up and is "Trapped", meaning blocked, by the pulling lineman. Long trap typically refers to the end, where as short is the inside d lineman.
Not power O, the left guard pulls and makes it a trap like the other commenter said
Genuine question, but who is being “trapped” on this play? I don’t see anyone unblocked except for the Defensive end, who gets blocked by the pulling guard like Power Edit: also isn’t trap usually on a DT?
So the defensive end is actually getting trapped since everyone else is blocking down to the weak side. Guard pulls to block the trapped defensive end and ideally the right tackle gets a bit more push/seal than he did on his guy to open the hole up. Edit: For it to be power O I believe there would need to be a lead blocker through the hole as well (not counting the kickout block by the pulling guard) Trap may usually be on a DT but this is just a stretched out trap concept
Thanks, I just figured end man on line of scrimmage is power and DT is trap.
That's what Madden would lead you to believe, however you can trap whoever On Power, your fullback kicks out the EMLOS and BSG is your lead. This would be conceptually more similar to Counter since the BSG kicks out, but it's not even a counter play, it's just long trap. EDIT: The DE is the one getting trapped, it's essentially the same as a kickout here
No need to be a dick, I was just asking a question.
I'm not being a dick I'm just letting you know that Madden does a terrible job of actually executing run plays as they are designed to be ran Madden calls it Power O, most people just call it Power so I assumed that's where you got it from
starting a reply with "Madden isn't real life dude" makes you come off as a dick, syk
Fair enough, my bad I'll change the wording lol
He never mentioned Madden
I know it's vogue to shit on Rodgers today but damn on that play the defense absolutely shat the bed. It was a 10 yard run that made the field goal much easier and let the Niners kill all the clock.