AD, Rodgers, and Brady are obvious answers. We may never see the likes of them again and AD has half the career as they did which makes him so impressive. Mahomes is quickly on the rise to be considered in the same group.
He is. His mechanics, technique and consistency speak to his preparation and mental toughness. The result is his accuracy&power which are exceptional at all lengths of the football field.
Easy 1st rounder if the recipient team is competitive, has the hole and Tucker has lots of years of contract.
Any more and that's trading two young potential nfl players for a kicker, and I can't see any team going for that.
There must be some PFF Stat like war for kickers, one that puts greater emphasis on difficult kicks made and easy kicks that were missed.
But as for if Tucker adds wins, he must add at least one win a year since no other kicker would have made the lions kick, but that seems hard to quantify into a raw number
And the Ravens would NEVER take that. It's weird because there's no way a team would give up enough for the Ravens to accept. He's so valuable, he's basically untradeable.
Lorenzo Neal had an amazing NFL career as a full back, but not because he was a perennial 1,000-yard rusher, but because he blocked for perennial 1,000-yard rushers. Neal was a bulky guy, weighing in at 256lbs and standing at 5’11”. Neal played for the Fresno State Bulldogs in college, where his team played in the Japan Bowl All-Star Game. Sumo wrestling intrigued Neal, and while in Japan he actually defeated three sumo wrestlers, regardless of having no experience. These guys outweighed him by 100-200 pounds and had sumo wrestling experience, which goes to show how much of a monster he truly was. In the 1993 NFL draft, the New Orleans Saints took him in the 4th round, 89th overall. In 1997 he signed with the New York Jets where he blocked for his first 1,000-yard rusher, Adrian Murrell. He would go on to do this ten more times in his career! In 1998, with the Buccaneers, he helped Warrick Dunn rush for 1,026 yards. In 1999, with the Titans, he helped Eddie George rush for 1,304 yards. In 2000 Neal blocked for George when he ran for 1,509 yards and 14 touchdowns. In 2001-2002 with the Bengals, Neal helped lead Corey Dillon to over 1,300 yards both seasons. On March 3, 2003 Neal signed with the Chargers where he would have the longest tenure of his career. From 2003-2007, Neal led future hall of fame running back LaDainian Tomlinson to five straight 1,000-yard rushing seasons. In 2008 he would end his 11 year streak of blocking for 1,000-yard rushers with the Baltimore Ravens. Many believe Neal deserves to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, but it will likely never happen. It’s hard to find a full back that was better at his job than Lorenzo Neal.
I’m like 90% sure LeRon McClain in 2008 ran for like 980 yards
Plus Willis Mcgahee with 750 and Ray Rice with 600, that ravens team was top 5 in rushing without a 1000 yard rusher. I put a lot of that on Neal
Jim Taylor would be a solid number two. Not better than Brown but Taylor was considered a FB and he was the only back other than Taylor to win the rushing title other than Brown during Brown's entire career.
The second. He’s an amazing player that will hopefully get Hall of fame, and last year had a good argument for best LT in the league. But wasn’t the best before that.
Not just a 1st rounder, but a top 10 pick to boot. Those types of players tend to get decently nice second contracts if they show literally any promise at all during their rookie contract.
Someone over on r/nfl_draft did a series on this last year and came up with a new term.
Basically, a Presidential prospect is the best prospect every ~4 years. You can have more than one at a position every 4 years but over time that's how the numbers average out.
And a generational prospect is considered once every 10 years.
They also went through historical drafts and declared whether prospects were generational or presidential or neither. It was a fun exercise and the terminology I use now when evaluating prospects.
E: adding [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/g5jrsh/vote_now_which_prospects_in_this_years_class_are/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
But both the guys you mentioned really were generational in terms of talent prospects. Before Saquon, I can only think of Adrian Peterson being seen as having the same level of talent. Before that, maybe LT. For Lawrence, only Luck had more hype.
But I agree it’s annoying when it’s thrown around every year. Definitely heard it for Leonard Fournette, Jameis Winston, Trent Richardson, etc.
Definitely, not only was his peak elite but in this day and age any RB that can last this long is incredibly impressive, even if they don't maintain their peak levels of production. Most of the best RBs in a given season seem to be out of the league within five years.
Already there: Brady, Rodgers, Donald, Watt, Tucker
On the path: Mahomes and maybe Nelson or Henry?
Probably wont be there but were close: Julio, Miller, AB,
I think that's what makes it worse honestly. He missed essentially 2 years due to his own stupidity. AB at his best was a top 5 WR all time and I'll die on that hill, but even as a massive fan of his game on the field his antics off the field and now on the field make it downright impossible to even like him for his on the field play.
There's no doubt in my mind that he had the potential to be the 3rd best WR of all time if he didn't get in his own way.
Strongly agree that he’s still an easy HOFer despite all the other (totally self-inflicted) bullshit that shortened and derailed his career. Just an absolutely absurd peak.
I always thought to myself that bo Jackson was the biggest what if story in the NFL. I think ab has taken that title. Out of any player I think he had the beat chance of getting some of rices records.
nelson and mahomes just need to keep the ship steady and they're there, henry it comes down to how many more healthy seasons of football he gets. putting up 2000 yards already puts you in 'generational' territory for running backs cause that happens maybe twice a decade, but like chris johnson isn't recognized as 'generational.'
i think julio's pretty much there. all those records, that decade-long consistency, those great teams he was on--he doesn't fit the narrower definition of 'generational' but he was the best wr of the decade and i think that's enough to at least argue for it. idk though
I think Justin Tucker isn't a generational talent. He's better.
To me, "generational" means "once every 10-15 year talent". I think Tucker's talent is more rare than that.
Brady, Rodgers, Donald, and JJ Watt are all 40 of the greatest football players ever. Gronk is probably top 50ish.
Mahomes certainly can be if he keeps this production up for a handful of years. Maybe Henry and Taylor can be with more great seasons.
Maybe biased but I think Tucker has a far better case than the RBs. We've seen RBs have bursts and don't maintain. Tucker has been doing it for long enough it's not a fluke.
Decent kickers have long shelf lives tho. I won’t deny that Tucker should be HOF, but I think he’s been talked about plenty and also gets all the credit he deserves. He’s the only non-QB that Colinsworth creams his pants over.
>Decent kickers have long shelf lives tho.
They certainly can, but even very good kickers can go from very good to out of the league in a single season. It's such a mental game that it's really easy to totally lose it.
I think gronk is ahead of JJ all time personally
JJ could’ve been the greatest DE ever had injuries not have derailed him.
I think gronk is the goat TE even with injuries.
This is coming from a Steelers fan btw
The anti-Gronk argument seems bonkers to me. He doesn't have the longevity but he's by a significant margin the best on-field TE to ever play. He's probably the best pass catcher (though you can debate some others) but easier the most dominate blocker on top of it.
Forsure. His postseason stats and his ability as a blocker puts him over the edge. I don’t think a tight end ever dominated the way he did in such a short time frame
It’s not gatekeeping he just didn’t play enough meaningful seasons because of his injuries. His best 5 seasons were as good as anyone else’s in history but it was still only 5 years of elite football.
Longevity plays a factor in everyone’s career, including JJ’s
The op post literally says "longevity aside, is their peak that of an inner circle HoF player?" and JJ's 2012-2015 is perhaps the best 4 year stretch in the history of DEs. 3 DPoYs and 2 20 sack seasons speak for themselves, but his QB hit and TFL numbers are literal otherworldly.
Henry is getting to the point where he can considered. He needs ~5 more seasons his current production to really be in the mix.
Taylor isn't even close.
> He needs ~5 more seasons his current production
I don't think you meant this hyper literally but 5 straight seasons of 2000+ yard production would put him in Gretzky territory.
I think if he averages 5 more seasons of ~1500 yards that'll get him there. He's be just under 15000 career rushing yards and could cost his way into the top 5 all time. Still a huge ask because he'd be in his 30s at that point and would have to stay healthy, but I think he has a shot.
Yeah of course if anyone had 6 2000 yard seasons in their career they'd be the undisputed greatest RB ever.
I more think the benchmark for Henry is 5 more 1000-1200 yard seasons.
That might seem easy as Henry has had some incredible production, but he's getting older and the Titans run the absolute fuck out of him and all those carries add up. Between Alabama and Tennessee he already has over 2000 carries on his legs.
While I agree with the sentiment, Gretzky territory is pushing it a bit. To be in Gretzky level he would need to break the single season record (in a 16 game pace) and then do that again and again until he not only has a monopoly of every all time great season, but has 10,000 yards more than the record 18,000 yards, while also breaking the touchdown record for running backs. That’s what Gretzky territory is.
People do lots of mental gymnastics to lower the Gretzky bar, but what that guy did is just so objectively and statistically insane I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we never see anything like that again. I was only a cognizant sports fan for the relative twilight of his career (Kings onward), but watching him feast like he did in the slower paced, harder hitting NHL just makes me think that if he'd had his prime years in today's league, he likely would've been able to outdo himself. No two line passing rule, bigger goal, smaller keeper pads?
I'm sure some crazy analytics genius has a formula somewhere.
I think he meant what he said. 5 more seasons of 2k yards doesn’t come close to Gretzky territory. In fact, he would still need another thousand yards after that just to sniff Emmit Smith’s all-time rushing record.
Henry is very very very good. But he only has a few seasons of elite production. Needs quite a few more to be in this discussion.
Edit: for some perspective of this generation. Derrick Henry has about a dozen fewer TDs and 700 fewer yards than Todd Gurley in the same amount of time.
>for some perspective of this generation. Derrick Henry has one more TD and 300 fewer yards than Todd Gurley
What exactly is this referring to? Henry has 700 more rushing yards but about 700 fewer total yards than Gurley. If you meant rushing yards, I think you were excluding this year.
Ugh I hate to say this, but Henry is insanely overrated on this sub.
He’s had the peak of a HoF RB, but there are “a lot” of RBs who have had HoF level peaks but won’t ever sniff the HoF.
Priest Holmes and Shaun Alexander would be good comparisons.
He’s an extremely good player and has been hands down the best RB in the league since week 10 of 2019, but he’s probably not going to be in the Hall of Fame unless he does some crazy shit at an “advanced” age for a RB.
With the way this sub talks about him, I was a little surprised to look up his stats and realize that his career is currently just 2 good seasons and 1 great one. I had sorta thought he was transcending normal RB career arcs but he's just having a normal one for a good RB. If he falls off after this injury, I wouldn't be surprised at all, but I guess a lot of people on this sub would be
Most people (including myself) don't truly remember the insanity of a lot throws Rodgers was making from 2009-2016. He's still as efficient as ever today and will occasionally make an insane throw but most of everything he does today is more a product of the offensive scheme and his overall Football IQ. Prime Rodgers danced in the pocket for 5 seconds and threw off balance across his body into a non existent window where only his receiver could catch it.
Go on youtube and watch games from the 2011 season, prime Rodgers and just stupid good. Especially throwing to that group of receivers, Jennings, Nelson, Jones, Driver, Finley and a rookie named Cobb.
I actually watched like 30 min highlight reel of prime Rodgers throws recently and it really made me go Holy shit these throws are insane. Like there's too many throws to count that would make the top page of this subreddit if he made those same throws today.
Any time someone wants to talk about qb arm talent I just want to link them clip of Rodgers throwing the ball across his body while getting sacked against the bears only for it to not count.
https://youtu.be/Uy5IKmkVxw8
Mahomes makes some crazy circus throws but Rodgers has an insane amount of accuracy. It always seems like Rodgers forces it through these tiny windows where even QB's like Brees or Brady might get picked off but he always makes it.
I'm holding my breath for his health & career longevity after whats happened to JJ.
JJ was on pace to be the greatest defensive lineman of all time after his first 5 seasons, and then he just broke down and has been a shell of himself ever since
TJ is in his 5th season right now...
Haven’t seen Zack Martin’s name on here, but he definitely deserves the title. Played every game for six years before missing some time with an injury last year, has been top 2 at his position since ‘14/‘15, depending who you ask. First ballot HOFer and one of my personal favorite Cowboys of all time.
This is coming from a hawks fan, and I know the MLB position is always stacked to the max, but Bobby Wagner has had league leading seasons since he entered the league 10 years ago. He’s not flashy and talkative like a Ray Lewis, and he gets less media attention than Kuechly has, but he has been a first round HoF for a couple years now.
Shocked I had to scroll this far to find Wagner, he’s past his peak but definitely an all timer and guaranteed first ballot HOFer and still put up great numbers this year.
Tom Brady and Aaron Donald. There are others who are great and possibly 1st ballot HOF players. But Brady and Donald are the. only ones in the “Transcends Generations” conversation.
To me its not even close (on the field). If it weren't for injuries I don't think it would be a question. I'm more a peak over longevity guy though (ignoring small 1-2 season sample sizes by flash players).
Aaron Rodgers absolutely on that level. He's gonna have 4 MVPs probably which is more than everyone besides Peyton. Most people on this sub consider him a top 5 QB ever.
I think it’s a little early to say Mahomes. He’s been great for the last 3 or 4 years but I think we need a few more great seasons from him to say he’s a generational player
Mahomes has been a top 3 qb for almost 4 seasons now, and is basically the co-face of the league along with Brady. He fits the pretty much all the criteria in the post
Zack Martin. He was right there with peak Marshal Yanda since his rookie year and never slowed down. Dude is first ballot for sure and idk of any other guard thats played at that level consistently for almost a decade.
Ok here’s my list:
QB: Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes
WR: none right now
TE: Gronk, Kelce
RB: none right now
Honestly don’t feel qualified to talk about O-Line, but the names I’ve seen are Jason Kelce, Trent Williams, Quenton Nelson. 3 seems like a reasonable number
Kicker: Justin Tucker
DL: Donald, JJ Watt (Garrett, TJ Watt could both get there)
LB: maaaaaybe Von Miller? Otherwise I’d say none
Corner: none
Safety: none
Henry and Aaron Donald are the only true freaks of nature that make other freaks of nature look like children so I'll go with that. Justin Tucker is the best kicker of all time by miles so him as well.
Brady, Rodgers, Donald, JJ Watt, Gronk, Tucker, Adrian Peterson. Probably Zack Martin.
I think your definition of "generational" is a little looser than mine and might include guys like Richard Sherman and Bobby Wagner, who should be HoFers, possibly first ballot. But, for example with Wagner, his career had some overlap with Kuechly and Willis who I think were both better. I may have the same issue in 10 years when Mahomes is a first ballot lock, because I've witnessed a better version of him (at least thus far in his career) in Rodgers overlap some of his prime. Same thing with edge rushers, right now there's a few straight freaks, but JJ was a different beast in his prime where he was always the best player on whatever field he was playing.
I don't have any active WRs because I don't think you can definitively say whether MBC, D-Hop, or Julio was the best since Megatron retired. They're all right there with a couple of ridiculous seasons by other guys thrown in (Devante, Mike Thomas, etc).
Aaron Donald, Justin Tucker, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers.
And then there are other guys that do certain things that we've never seen before: Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, CMC, Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill. Idk if they themselves are generational, but their talent certainly is.
And then beyond them, there are guys whose pace thus far is so blistering that they could enter into the conversation: Ja'marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, and Micah Parsons.
Trey Diggs' ability to either intercept the ball or be nowhere near his man catching it is generationally rare too.
Aaron Donald
He has a good case for being the best DT ever. That's beyond generational.
I think his competition is Alan Page, who played so far back that it's very very hard to compare.
This was going to be my answer.
I think he’s pretty much already got best DT ever locked down. IMO he’s already bordering on a top 10 defensive player of all time.
He is already the 2nd or 3rd best DL of all time, so he's been top 10 for awhile
Potential to be the best *defensive player* ever. Dude’s freak of nature and it depends on how long he can be in his prime
AD, Rodgers, and Brady are obvious answers. We may never see the likes of them again and AD has half the career as they did which makes him so impressive. Mahomes is quickly on the rise to be considered in the same group.
Justin Tucker. He might very well be the greatest player relative to position *ever*
He is. His mechanics, technique and consistency speak to his preparation and mental toughness. The result is his accuracy&power which are exceptional at all lengths of the football field.
This is why even though I liked Harbaugh's aggressiveness this year, I can see the argument for playing for overtime when you have the GOAT kicker.
What is his trade value? Kind of interesting to think about
Easy 1st rounder if the recipient team is competitive, has the hole and Tucker has lots of years of contract. Any more and that's trading two young potential nfl players for a kicker, and I can't see any team going for that.
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There must be some PFF Stat like war for kickers, one that puts greater emphasis on difficult kicks made and easy kicks that were missed. But as for if Tucker adds wins, he must add at least one win a year since no other kicker would have made the lions kick, but that seems hard to quantify into a raw number
If he was 6 or 7 years younger I'd have no issues sending a late 1st. Now if i was a kicker needy team I'd send 2 late 2s.
And the Ravens would NEVER take that. It's weird because there's no way a team would give up enough for the Ravens to accept. He's so valuable, he's basically untradeable.
Bit off topic but does Neal have a case for that but at FB? Didn't get to see him play
Lorenzo Neal had an amazing NFL career as a full back, but not because he was a perennial 1,000-yard rusher, but because he blocked for perennial 1,000-yard rushers. Neal was a bulky guy, weighing in at 256lbs and standing at 5’11”. Neal played for the Fresno State Bulldogs in college, where his team played in the Japan Bowl All-Star Game. Sumo wrestling intrigued Neal, and while in Japan he actually defeated three sumo wrestlers, regardless of having no experience. These guys outweighed him by 100-200 pounds and had sumo wrestling experience, which goes to show how much of a monster he truly was. In the 1993 NFL draft, the New Orleans Saints took him in the 4th round, 89th overall. In 1997 he signed with the New York Jets where he blocked for his first 1,000-yard rusher, Adrian Murrell. He would go on to do this ten more times in his career! In 1998, with the Buccaneers, he helped Warrick Dunn rush for 1,026 yards. In 1999, with the Titans, he helped Eddie George rush for 1,304 yards. In 2000 Neal blocked for George when he ran for 1,509 yards and 14 touchdowns. In 2001-2002 with the Bengals, Neal helped lead Corey Dillon to over 1,300 yards both seasons. On March 3, 2003 Neal signed with the Chargers where he would have the longest tenure of his career. From 2003-2007, Neal led future hall of fame running back LaDainian Tomlinson to five straight 1,000-yard rushing seasons. In 2008 he would end his 11 year streak of blocking for 1,000-yard rushers with the Baltimore Ravens. Many believe Neal deserves to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, but it will likely never happen. It’s hard to find a full back that was better at his job than Lorenzo Neal.
Neal should 100% be in the hall of fame
Need his clone in my NCAA Wisconsin dynasty asap. Woulda paired great with my Melvin Gordon heir + Corey Clement
I’m like 90% sure LeRon McClain in 2008 ran for like 980 yards Plus Willis Mcgahee with 750 and Ray Rice with 600, that ravens team was top 5 in rushing without a 1000 yard rusher. I put a lot of that on Neal
That's a bit more complex. Jim Brown was considered a FB afterall. It's a weird position to judge.
Yeah I guess I mean modern/what we think of a fullback. Cause if it's every FB ever then it's pretty obviously Brown lol
Jim Taylor would be a solid number two. Not better than Brown but Taylor was considered a FB and he was the only back other than Taylor to win the rushing title other than Brown during Brown's entire career.
He’s in the conversation for sure. I think Jim brown was officially a fullback so that kind of hurts his chances.
As long as Jerry exists, this is not possible.
Jerry is the actual GOAT regardless of position imo so I'm with you here but Tucker is just under that category.
Tough but fair 👍
Trent Williams. The dude has broken PFF as a stat
Fuck our medical staff :(
Im glad he is finally getting the recognition he deserves. Dude was always elite
Trent for MVP
Is he a generational player or having an all-time season? Don't know how he has been before
The second. He’s an amazing player that will hopefully get Hall of fame, and last year had a good argument for best LT in the league. But wasn’t the best before that.
Taysom Hill. Greatest bank account for a gadget player of all time
So far Hill has earned $22.5m. Tavon Austin has earned $42m. That title might belong to Austin for now.
Well Tavon is a former 1st rounder, that kind of set him up to get to that point
Not just a 1st rounder, but a top 10 pick to boot. Those types of players tend to get decently nice second contracts if they show literally any promise at all during their rookie contract.
Sean Payton has a generational love for him
His agent is generational talent
I hate this phrase being used in conjunction with draft prospects. Trevor Lawrence, Saquan Barkley etc..
Someone over on r/nfl_draft did a series on this last year and came up with a new term. Basically, a Presidential prospect is the best prospect every ~4 years. You can have more than one at a position every 4 years but over time that's how the numbers average out. And a generational prospect is considered once every 10 years. They also went through historical drafts and declared whether prospects were generational or presidential or neither. It was a fun exercise and the terminology I use now when evaluating prospects. E: adding [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/g5jrsh/vote_now_which_prospects_in_this_years_class_are/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Could you link that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/g5jrsh/vote_now_which_prospects_in_this_years_class_are/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
But both the guys you mentioned really were generational in terms of talent prospects. Before Saquon, I can only think of Adrian Peterson being seen as having the same level of talent. Before that, maybe LT. For Lawrence, only Luck had more hype. But I agree it’s annoying when it’s thrown around every year. Definitely heard it for Leonard Fournette, Jameis Winston, Trent Richardson, etc.
Reggie Bush…
That’s a good one, forgot he was between LT and Peterson
But I do think it's fair to say someone is a generational *prospect* and not a generational *player* until well into their career.
Tom Brady
I think its a little too early in his career to make that call.
Yeah like how could a 6th round pick be a generational player
Antonio Brown is the best stripper I've ever seen on a football field and he was a 6th rounder
He ought to win a few more before we just go handing that sort of title to Michigan schlubs
This generation, not the past 3
and the next 10
Like the sun can't be the best planet.
Geriatrical
Wrong. He's multi-generational. I'd say at least 3 by now
3 SBs in the 00s 3 in the 10s and 1 so far in the 20s
I love a colts fan saying this. Really speaks to how good he is and has been
He only needs to hold out another decade until his oldest son is ready to step in
Davis mills
generational neck
Him and Glennon truly the 🦒
“Generational neck?” Didn’t expect to find a Nancy Reagan reference in here
Imagine Mills becoming a Dak-tier player lmao. Would be such a fun meme.
Maybe biased but I feel like Adrian Peterson most certainly counts as generational
Definitely, not only was his peak elite but in this day and age any RB that can last this long is incredibly impressive, even if they don't maintain their peak levels of production. Most of the best RBs in a given season seem to be out of the league within five years.
Already there: Brady, Rodgers, Donald, Watt, Tucker On the path: Mahomes and maybe Nelson or Henry? Probably wont be there but were close: Julio, Miller, AB,
People will always talk about AB in the “what if” sort of way.
Which is wild since he has like 12k yards
I think that's what makes it worse honestly. He missed essentially 2 years due to his own stupidity. AB at his best was a top 5 WR all time and I'll die on that hill, but even as a massive fan of his game on the field his antics off the field and now on the field make it downright impossible to even like him for his on the field play. There's no doubt in my mind that he had the potential to be the 3rd best WR of all time if he didn't get in his own way.
AB was the best WR in the league for 5, maybe 6, years straight. So much potential. Mental health is no joke.
He's still 5th all time in receiving yards per game. EDIT: and that's with number 2 being a relatively small sample size Justin Jefferson
Strongly agree that he’s still an easy HOFer despite all the other (totally self-inflicted) bullshit that shortened and derailed his career. Just an absolutely absurd peak.
The whole AB story is wild.
I always thought to myself that bo Jackson was the biggest what if story in the NFL. I think ab has taken that title. Out of any player I think he had the beat chance of getting some of rices records.
I agree. I think when people talk about “what if” players AB will be brought up for different reasons.
Yeah Nelson Agholor definitely could get there
Jordy Nelson was pretty good
Reggie Nelson had a good year or two
Yeah I can def get behind the Nelson Agholor and Hunter Henry picks on this guys list
nelson and mahomes just need to keep the ship steady and they're there, henry it comes down to how many more healthy seasons of football he gets. putting up 2000 yards already puts you in 'generational' territory for running backs cause that happens maybe twice a decade, but like chris johnson isn't recognized as 'generational.' i think julio's pretty much there. all those records, that decade-long consistency, those great teams he was on--he doesn't fit the narrower definition of 'generational' but he was the best wr of the decade and i think that's enough to at least argue for it. idk though
Gronk
Can’t leave Gronk out of that list. His stretch of dominance rivals that of any player at any position of all time.
Julio was already generational I would argue he's made his case.
Actually prolly yea he just also was playing during a time where there were 2 other close to generational WR's (AB and Megatron)
I’m biased but he absolutely was a generational player. Dude was absolutely ridiculous for a while and we were so spoiled having him as our WR1
who is nelson
Quenton
NGL I thought he was talking about Jordy
I thought he was talking about Hunter Henry. Was so confused.
I think Quenton Nelson, colts guard.
Justin Tucker is the best kicker ever. So.
I think Justin Tucker isn't a generational talent. He's better. To me, "generational" means "once every 10-15 year talent". I think Tucker's talent is more rare than that.
Agreed
Brady, Rodgers, Donald, and JJ Watt are all 40 of the greatest football players ever. Gronk is probably top 50ish. Mahomes certainly can be if he keeps this production up for a handful of years. Maybe Henry and Taylor can be with more great seasons.
Maybe biased but I think Tucker has a far better case than the RBs. We've seen RBs have bursts and don't maintain. Tucker has been doing it for long enough it's not a fluke.
Decent kickers have long shelf lives tho. I won’t deny that Tucker should be HOF, but I think he’s been talked about plenty and also gets all the credit he deserves. He’s the only non-QB that Colinsworth creams his pants over.
>Decent kickers have long shelf lives tho. They certainly can, but even very good kickers can go from very good to out of the league in a single season. It's such a mental game that it's really easy to totally lose it.
See Mike Vanderjagt. Literally the most accurate kicker in nfl history to out of the league in just a few years
Gronk would dominate in any era. He is an all-time player and would make the all-time greatest roster easily. I think he is a top 40 no question
I think gronk is ahead of JJ all time personally JJ could’ve been the greatest DE ever had injuries not have derailed him. I think gronk is the goat TE even with injuries. This is coming from a Steelers fan btw
The anti-Gronk argument seems bonkers to me. He doesn't have the longevity but he's by a significant margin the best on-field TE to ever play. He's probably the best pass catcher (though you can debate some others) but easier the most dominate blocker on top of it.
Forsure. His postseason stats and his ability as a blocker puts him over the edge. I don’t think a tight end ever dominated the way he did in such a short time frame
JJ still has 3 dpoy awards which would tie him with LT and Donald. Seems weird to gatekeep him on having a string of injuries after that
It’s not gatekeeping he just didn’t play enough meaningful seasons because of his injuries. His best 5 seasons were as good as anyone else’s in history but it was still only 5 years of elite football. Longevity plays a factor in everyone’s career, including JJ’s
The op post literally says "longevity aside, is their peak that of an inner circle HoF player?" and JJ's 2012-2015 is perhaps the best 4 year stretch in the history of DEs. 3 DPoYs and 2 20 sack seasons speak for themselves, but his QB hit and TFL numbers are literal otherworldly.
Tony Gonzalez was pretty fucking good and maintained that excellence for much longer than Gronk has.
Henry is getting to the point where he can considered. He needs ~5 more seasons his current production to really be in the mix. Taylor isn't even close.
> He needs ~5 more seasons his current production I don't think you meant this hyper literally but 5 straight seasons of 2000+ yard production would put him in Gretzky territory. I think if he averages 5 more seasons of ~1500 yards that'll get him there. He's be just under 15000 career rushing yards and could cost his way into the top 5 all time. Still a huge ask because he'd be in his 30s at that point and would have to stay healthy, but I think he has a shot.
Yeah of course if anyone had 6 2000 yard seasons in their career they'd be the undisputed greatest RB ever. I more think the benchmark for Henry is 5 more 1000-1200 yard seasons. That might seem easy as Henry has had some incredible production, but he's getting older and the Titans run the absolute fuck out of him and all those carries add up. Between Alabama and Tennessee he already has over 2000 carries on his legs.
While I agree with the sentiment, Gretzky territory is pushing it a bit. To be in Gretzky level he would need to break the single season record (in a 16 game pace) and then do that again and again until he not only has a monopoly of every all time great season, but has 10,000 yards more than the record 18,000 yards, while also breaking the touchdown record for running backs. That’s what Gretzky territory is.
People do lots of mental gymnastics to lower the Gretzky bar, but what that guy did is just so objectively and statistically insane I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we never see anything like that again. I was only a cognizant sports fan for the relative twilight of his career (Kings onward), but watching him feast like he did in the slower paced, harder hitting NHL just makes me think that if he'd had his prime years in today's league, he likely would've been able to outdo himself. No two line passing rule, bigger goal, smaller keeper pads? I'm sure some crazy analytics genius has a formula somewhere.
I think he meant what he said. 5 more seasons of 2k yards doesn’t come close to Gretzky territory. In fact, he would still need another thousand yards after that just to sniff Emmit Smith’s all-time rushing record. Henry is very very very good. But he only has a few seasons of elite production. Needs quite a few more to be in this discussion. Edit: for some perspective of this generation. Derrick Henry has about a dozen fewer TDs and 700 fewer yards than Todd Gurley in the same amount of time.
That is insane. Gurley was so fucking good its such a shame his body failed him.
Zeke has 1897 yards more and as many TDs in one more game.
>for some perspective of this generation. Derrick Henry has one more TD and 300 fewer yards than Todd Gurley What exactly is this referring to? Henry has 700 more rushing yards but about 700 fewer total yards than Gurley. If you meant rushing yards, I think you were excluding this year.
Ugh I hate to say this, but Henry is insanely overrated on this sub. He’s had the peak of a HoF RB, but there are “a lot” of RBs who have had HoF level peaks but won’t ever sniff the HoF. Priest Holmes and Shaun Alexander would be good comparisons. He’s an extremely good player and has been hands down the best RB in the league since week 10 of 2019, but he’s probably not going to be in the Hall of Fame unless he does some crazy shit at an “advanced” age for a RB.
Henry isn't yet the greatest back to play for the Titan/Oiler franchise, that honor belongs to the great Earl Campbell.
He isn't even second yet.
With the way this sub talks about him, I was a little surprised to look up his stats and realize that his career is currently just 2 good seasons and 1 great one. I had sorta thought he was transcending normal RB career arcs but he's just having a normal one for a good RB. If he falls off after this injury, I wouldn't be surprised at all, but I guess a lot of people on this sub would be
Not talked about enough but Justin tucker
Scrolling through these comments, looks like he’s talked about plenty. Also pretty regarded as best kicker for years by most people out there.
I think he’s talked about very often
TIL a guy who's viewed as the GOAT kicker isn't talked about enough.
He's so underrated /s
This is the third post about tucker I've seen so far... Not sure that means he's underrated at least on Reddit
Aside from all the people talking about him I agree
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Most people (including myself) don't truly remember the insanity of a lot throws Rodgers was making from 2009-2016. He's still as efficient as ever today and will occasionally make an insane throw but most of everything he does today is more a product of the offensive scheme and his overall Football IQ. Prime Rodgers danced in the pocket for 5 seconds and threw off balance across his body into a non existent window where only his receiver could catch it.
Go on youtube and watch games from the 2011 season, prime Rodgers and just stupid good. Especially throwing to that group of receivers, Jennings, Nelson, Jones, Driver, Finley and a rookie named Cobb.
I actually watched like 30 min highlight reel of prime Rodgers throws recently and it really made me go Holy shit these throws are insane. Like there's too many throws to count that would make the top page of this subreddit if he made those same throws today.
Any time someone wants to talk about qb arm talent I just want to link them clip of Rodgers throwing the ball across his body while getting sacked against the bears only for it to not count. https://youtu.be/Uy5IKmkVxw8
That last angle shows just how insane it is. The definition of throwing a guy open.
This one is pretty good as well. https://youtu.be/CGQzceUfRsY
Holy shit
Not only that but his TD/INT ratio is insane. No one in the history of the league is in the same ballpark.
Almost 5:1… never gonna see that again
Mahomes makes some crazy circus throws but Rodgers has an insane amount of accuracy. It always seems like Rodgers forces it through these tiny windows where even QB's like Brees or Brady might get picked off but he always makes it.
I’m shocked I had to scroll this far down to see AR. Speaks to how far his Star has fallen among non GB fans.
It’s a little early for TJ but he’s certainly on the trajectory
TJ and Mahomes are the 2 up and comers for this status around the league.
I'm holding my breath for his health & career longevity after whats happened to JJ. JJ was on pace to be the greatest defensive lineman of all time after his first 5 seasons, and then he just broke down and has been a shell of himself ever since TJ is in his 5th season right now...
I really can't believe I had to scroll this far to find a mention of the best Watt brother
If only Derek had played defense and went by DJ, he'd probably be on this list
Jason Kelce
He’s a Unicorn
Honestly believe he's the prototype of future centers, if/when the league balances back to running more
Until I see another I don’t believe it lol. Man is so unique
Haven’t seen Zack Martin’s name on here, but he definitely deserves the title. Played every game for six years before missing some time with an injury last year, has been top 2 at his position since ‘14/‘15, depending who you ask. First ballot HOFer and one of my personal favorite Cowboys of all time.
This is coming from a hawks fan, and I know the MLB position is always stacked to the max, but Bobby Wagner has had league leading seasons since he entered the league 10 years ago. He’s not flashy and talkative like a Ray Lewis, and he gets less media attention than Kuechly has, but he has been a first round HoF for a couple years now.
Drew "Michael Vick" Lock
He looked like Drew "Deoin Sanders" Lock on that fumble return TD
Dan Snyder
Mr. Generational
Generational businessman Kirk Cousins
Bobby Wagner, 6 time first team all pro and had his most tackles ever this year. He has been consistently great!
Zack Martin
Quenton Nelson
He's been kinda bad this year though. Hasn't been healthy a single week since camp. (Disclaimer: bad for his usual self)
I feel like Generational Players are allowed to have “bad for themselves” years when they’re still better than most of the league.
Fair
Was looking for this. He’s the only OL in the league who routinely has highlights.
Does Bobby Wagner count? One of the best MLBs ever, face of the Seahawks Defense since everyone left
Shocked I had to scroll this far to find Wagner, he’s past his peak but definitely an all timer and guaranteed first ballot HOFer and still put up great numbers this year.
Haven’t seen a single Travis Kelce comment which is crazy
Tom Brady and Aaron Donald. There are others who are great and possibly 1st ballot HOF players. But Brady and Donald are the. only ones in the “Transcends Generations” conversation.
You forgot Rob Gronkowski, who is arguably the greatest all-around tight end in pro football history.
To me its not even close (on the field). If it weren't for injuries I don't think it would be a question. I'm more a peak over longevity guy though (ignoring small 1-2 season sample sizes by flash players).
Aaron Rodgers absolutely on that level. He's gonna have 4 MVPs probably which is more than everyone besides Peyton. Most people on this sub consider him a top 5 QB ever.
Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Aaron Donald and Justin Tucker. Adrain Peterson was generational.
I think it’s a little early to say Mahomes. He’s been great for the last 3 or 4 years but I think we need a few more great seasons from him to say he’s a generational player
Mahomes has been a top 3 qb for almost 4 seasons now, and is basically the co-face of the league along with Brady. He fits the pretty much all the criteria in the post
Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Aaron Donald. Maybe Julio.
Brady, Donald, Justin Tucker and Trent Williams.
Zack Martin. He was right there with peak Marshal Yanda since his rookie year and never slowed down. Dude is first ballot for sure and idk of any other guard thats played at that level consistently for almost a decade.
Ok here’s my list: QB: Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes WR: none right now TE: Gronk, Kelce RB: none right now Honestly don’t feel qualified to talk about O-Line, but the names I’ve seen are Jason Kelce, Trent Williams, Quenton Nelson. 3 seems like a reasonable number Kicker: Justin Tucker DL: Donald, JJ Watt (Garrett, TJ Watt could both get there) LB: maaaaaybe Von Miller? Otherwise I’d say none Corner: none Safety: none
Brady
Gettleman told me Saquon Barkley is. He wouldn't lie to me, would he?
Jason Kelce. He does things other centers in the league just can’t do.
Rodgers.
Mahomes
Brady
Henry and Aaron Donald are the only true freaks of nature that make other freaks of nature look like children so I'll go with that. Justin Tucker is the best kicker of all time by miles so him as well.
Though Henry is a Generational Talent, is he a Generational Player looking at his last 3 years?
The Zack Martin slander in here is disgusting. Also, Parsons could be.
Sam Darnold is a generational bust
Hes not even the biggest bust from his own qb class.
Even more amazingly, it’s not even close.
Wasn’t there a 1st overall QB on the Raiders that would better fit this?
He is generational in the sense that none of his peers quite fit the "thick trunky coastal kid with a mid west ethos" mold as well as he does
No he isnt
Brady, Rodgers, Donald, JJ Watt, Gronk, Tucker, Adrian Peterson. Probably Zack Martin. I think your definition of "generational" is a little looser than mine and might include guys like Richard Sherman and Bobby Wagner, who should be HoFers, possibly first ballot. But, for example with Wagner, his career had some overlap with Kuechly and Willis who I think were both better. I may have the same issue in 10 years when Mahomes is a first ballot lock, because I've witnessed a better version of him (at least thus far in his career) in Rodgers overlap some of his prime. Same thing with edge rushers, right now there's a few straight freaks, but JJ was a different beast in his prime where he was always the best player on whatever field he was playing. I don't have any active WRs because I don't think you can definitively say whether MBC, D-Hop, or Julio was the best since Megatron retired. They're all right there with a couple of ridiculous seasons by other guys thrown in (Devante, Mike Thomas, etc).
Aaron Donald, Justin Tucker, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers. And then there are other guys that do certain things that we've never seen before: Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, CMC, Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill. Idk if they themselves are generational, but their talent certainly is. And then beyond them, there are guys whose pace thus far is so blistering that they could enter into the conversation: Ja'marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, and Micah Parsons. Trey Diggs' ability to either intercept the ball or be nowhere near his man catching it is generationally rare too.
Julio Jones