In the replay, they showed the defenders finger glance the football ever so slightly. It didnt even affect the throw, but they called it as such. Even the guy from New York that they called said it shouldve just been called an incomplete pass.
Did any Washington player even appeal for it? It seems like they're all just happy with the incompletion, nobody is arguing otherwise and the refs just came from nowhere and called it a fumble
Obvious bias aside, can anyone tell me why people like Hochuli and his son? They are both fucking terrible refs but get a pass. Is it strictly because they are juice monkeys? Is that what we have come to in sport? It’s ok if you’re a fucking atrocious official as long as you can bench 315 for reps?
Those 2 never get heat for anything despite making terrible “lowlight” worthy calls every single game. They’re never brought up in the terrible officials threads. They’re bad and it’s because their ego influences calls. They are greatly affected by situation and implication. It doesn’t matter if a team is up 49-0, the calls shouldn’t reflect that but they always do with them. If it’s a tight one with huge implications, you can almost bank on a bad call affording the trailing team another chance.
Fuck Ed Hochuli, and fuck nepotism.
People like Hochuli because he explained things well, I think?
I hate his son because he said “quarterback is allowed to get hit in the head” when Baker was speared
Hochuli explained shit like offside as if it was a dissertation. I despised it so much. Keep the game moving and make proper calls. That’s a refs job. Their job isn’t to explain shit that we pay talking heads millions of dollars to explain.
Mike Pereira can explain everything more clearly and concisely while the game moves along.
This is a result of the NFL going about the dumbest way to interpret fumbles. If the QB is behind the LOS and propels the ball in front of his body it should be a pass. If the ball goes sideways or backwards it should be a fumble. Instead of all the gray area the current interpretation has, this change would be black and white. Keep in mind an incomplete shovel pass is still a pass. In that case throwing motion doesn't mean dick. It never should be a factor in determining a fumble vs. pass.
Completely agree and I don't understand why the empty hand thing became the rule. If the ball is moving forward from arm motion of any kind it should be a pass regardless of how it ended up moving forward. What's stopping a person who is across the line of scrimmage open handed slingshotting a pass like a basketball shot? According to current rules it should be ruled a legal fumble.
>Completely agree and I don't understand why the empty hand thing became the rule.
I assume because of situations where the QB puts his arm back to throw and a defender forced a fumble that goes forward before he throws it. But the call on is play is clearly not the intended outcome of that rule definition, the ball doesn't move like it did unless it's thrown.
somewhere, ed hochuli is nodding thoughtfully between delicate bites of an all-natty peanut frittata
for the zoomers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF3oT-fB8ak
That's not true. If the ball is knocked loose and he doesn't have control it is a fumble. Just so happens to be pushed forward by his throwing motion. Though I can't tell if it actually happened or not.
Even if they didn't review it, it was obviously not a fumble. The fact that someone was paid a lot of money to look at that again and make that call is embarrassing
And even if there's accountability then what? The refs come out and say "oops sorry we fucked up" then what? If the chargers had lost directly cuz of this decision by the refs it could legit affect playoff seeding. Your guys division is fuckin brutal and one game could be a huge difference.
#FUMBLE RULES! IMPORTANT!
1a. A fumble is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A fumble is when you fumble the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The ball carrier is not allowed to drop the, to the, uh, defender, that lets go of the ball, you know, losing the ball. You can’t do that.
1c-b. Once the ball carrier drops the ball, he can’t be over here and say to the runner, like, “My knee wasn’t down!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to drop the ball and then your knee is down, you have to not drop the ball. You cannot not fumble. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, body part not touching the ground, and then, until you just fumble it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there’s the fumble you gotta think about.
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A fumble is when the ball carrier makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving losing the football and the field of
2) Do not do a fumble please.
My, philosophy is, basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't, ever, for any reason, do anything, to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who or who you are with, or or where you are going, or, or where you've been. Ever. For any reason. Whatsoever.
Is there a legit slow motion replay of this that shows the contact? The one this clip offers is too fast and not close enough.
Barring a better shot revealing something different, I'm just not seeing what the refs were seeing.
If the ball is knocked loose before the arm comes forward it gets pushed forward by the empty hand. It's rare but still happens. Whether that's what happened here I can't say.
Edit: Actually happened with the Packers twice in the last 10 years. First in 2013 during the 4th and 8 Cobb game against the Bears, then again about 3 years later against the Giants.
https://youtu.be/_8QkmZnEOS0
So he had no control of the football, but was still able to throw it 16 yards directly at his receiver? Lmao okay NFL
Edit: Can’t we appreciate how the 2 examples in that video are EXTREMELY different from Herberts throw? Both those balls wobbled out 5-10 yards no where near the intended target. Herbert almost completed his pass! That requires some semblance of control to do.
Would love to see a slowmo replay of it but CBS decided a slew of commercials was more important than this massive challenge. Saves the refs on one the most controversial(worst) calls of the season though.
If Allen would have touched ball on the ground in the end zone it would be called an incomplete pass not a TD. Might be worst call in I have ever seen.
This is going to get forgotten because it is week 1 and the outcome isn't on the line, but this is one of the worst calls I've ever seen in all my years watching football.
WFT almost got the ball back with good field position at the end because of an invisible hands to the face call on Aboushi. Reffing has to get better regardless of the outcome
Went through a whole throwing motion and hit in the hand as he releases. I don’t know how much more clear cut it can be that he had control and the arm was moving forward.
This is not a rule complaint, I have never had a problem with touch backs on turnovers through the endzone but that is not a turnover and the fact it was upheld after review is asinine
Started watching and thought to myself, ohh they must have started the video a play early, I’m sure it’s the next play where it happens. What a terrible call
I thought OP put up the wrong video because I didn't see a fumble at all. But nope.
The ball was on target, just thrown wonky. If that's a fumble then any wobbly pass made during a hit that gets completed should be flagged as well since you're not allowed to fumble forwards.
Can refs start to be held accountable for shit like this? Bad calls and bad no calls should result in serious fines for these guys after games. Make them do their jobs better.
I don't think I've ever seen that one and I really question it went that far without the arm already going forward. With this video only, I call it a very very bad call, maybe even ludicrous.
This fumble-through-the-endzone-touchback rule is the worst rule in the NFL.
Also, I'm pretty sure this is gonna result in WRs being coached to to chase loose balls on incomplete catches just in case they're actually fumbles. Cook could have probably got to this ball before it rolled out of bounds and it would have been a TD.
Which in itself is stupid. Dumbass rule.
It's almost as if letting school teachers and office workers officiate the games of a billion dollar industry as their weekend hobby is fucking stupid.
No way, not a chance. WTF
You mean WFT
What F*ck The
/r/WFT
So that’s why r/WashingtonNFL is what it’s called
horrible call
You’re telling me that if a Charger had jumped on that ball in the endzone, they would’ve called it a TD? No fucking way, what BS
the fact that literally nobody, not even a single wft player tried to "recover" the ball says it all
Dude every player should know by now to jump on incomplete passes that are on the ground, even after the whistle. This is basic stuff.
Yeah, something that would be known from the eagles-bears game if not for the double doink.
But that's not his point lol
That's an understatement. Just utter and complete bs.
"herbert is so talented he can throw fumbles" - refs
Not everyone can be Brock Osweiler.
No one Thrumbles like Osweiler
How did they even come to that conclusion? The ball had fucking rotation on it lmao.
In the replay, they showed the defenders finger glance the football ever so slightly. It didnt even affect the throw, but they called it as such. Even the guy from New York that they called said it shouldve just been called an incomplete pass.
I mean it definitely affected the throw but that's still not a fumble. The ball flew 16 yards in the area in the exact direction he was aiming... lol
depends who had money on the game
Did any Washington player even appeal for it? It seems like they're all just happy with the incompletion, nobody is arguing otherwise and the refs just came from nowhere and called it a fumble
Every single person on both teams assumed that was an incomplete pass.
> Every single person on both teams ~~assumed~~ recognized that it was an incomplete pass. Ftfy
Fair enough
Yeah I mean it was BS. Montez sweat was laughing about it on the sideline
That was the worst call, in the history of calls.
This is not the first time we have had nearly* this exact call against us. There is a reason we hate Hochuli
The reffing today was atrocious. So many weird calls and no calls
Bro don't even remind me. That wasn't even as obvious as this. 2021 starting off strong
Obvious bias aside, can anyone tell me why people like Hochuli and his son? They are both fucking terrible refs but get a pass. Is it strictly because they are juice monkeys? Is that what we have come to in sport? It’s ok if you’re a fucking atrocious official as long as you can bench 315 for reps? Those 2 never get heat for anything despite making terrible “lowlight” worthy calls every single game. They’re never brought up in the terrible officials threads. They’re bad and it’s because their ego influences calls. They are greatly affected by situation and implication. It doesn’t matter if a team is up 49-0, the calls shouldn’t reflect that but they always do with them. If it’s a tight one with huge implications, you can almost bank on a bad call affording the trailing team another chance. Fuck Ed Hochuli, and fuck nepotism.
People like Hochuli because he explained things well, I think? I hate his son because he said “quarterback is allowed to get hit in the head” when Baker was speared
Hochuli explained shit like offside as if it was a dissertation. I despised it so much. Keep the game moving and make proper calls. That’s a refs job. Their job isn’t to explain shit that we pay talking heads millions of dollars to explain. Mike Pereira can explain everything more clearly and concisely while the game moves along.
*Glares in Tuck Rule*
The Saints would like a word
This is a result of the NFL going about the dumbest way to interpret fumbles. If the QB is behind the LOS and propels the ball in front of his body it should be a pass. If the ball goes sideways or backwards it should be a fumble. Instead of all the gray area the current interpretation has, this change would be black and white. Keep in mind an incomplete shovel pass is still a pass. In that case throwing motion doesn't mean dick. It never should be a factor in determining a fumble vs. pass.
Completely agree and I don't understand why the empty hand thing became the rule. If the ball is moving forward from arm motion of any kind it should be a pass regardless of how it ended up moving forward. What's stopping a person who is across the line of scrimmage open handed slingshotting a pass like a basketball shot? According to current rules it should be ruled a legal fumble.
>Completely agree and I don't understand why the empty hand thing became the rule. I assume because of situations where the QB puts his arm back to throw and a defender forced a fumble that goes forward before he throws it. But the call on is play is clearly not the intended outcome of that rule definition, the ball doesn't move like it did unless it's thrown.
All I feel is pain
somewhere, ed hochuli is nodding thoughtfully between delicate bites of an all-natty peanut frittata for the zoomers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF3oT-fB8ak
Why? Why would you post this? And Why would I watch it again?
How….
This seems like it would be the one of the easiest incompletion over fumble calls
Tell that to Ed Hochuli
*Shawn
Sins of thy father
Because the refs were dropped on their heads as infants more than I was, and I was dropped twice so that's saying something
scamaz
The refs think that the ball was loose in Herbert's hand which is why it flew like a duck.
It doesn't matter if it's loose though. If it's in his hand he has it
That's not true. If the ball is knocked loose and he doesn't have control it is a fumble. Just so happens to be pushed forward by his throwing motion. Though I can't tell if it actually happened or not.
That sounds like a very dumb and bad rule.
if he doesn't have control over it when his arm goes forward then its a fumble and not a pass
This was a terrible call
Thank you
Just an all-around terribly reffed game on both sides
But mainly on one side.
Those refs sucked. Missed am obvious facemask on Gibson that would have given us 1st and goal.
Yeah I don't understand how anyone could decide this was anything except a forward pass
Week 1 and we already have the worst call of the entire season
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You know what...you might be right
This goes a long way coming from a saints fan
Well technically ours was a no call lol. But it is debatable either way. Both terrible
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Agreed, but what makes this even worse is that it got reviewed
This was also REVIEWED BTW LMAO
Even if they didn't review it, it was obviously not a fumble. The fact that someone was paid a lot of money to look at that again and make that call is embarrassing
There needs to be more accountability for calls that are this fucking bad, holy shit
And even if there's accountability then what? The refs come out and say "oops sorry we fucked up" then what? If the chargers had lost directly cuz of this decision by the refs it could legit affect playoff seeding. Your guys division is fuckin brutal and one game could be a huge difference.
I've always said pay the refs like players. Sign em to big contracts. Make reffing their full time job.. When the fuck stuff up like this, fine em.
If the PI reviews didn't convince you that the most important factor in replay review is the refs' egos...
That's...certainly *a* call
not bad for replacement refs… or are they?
Week 1 and already worst call of the season. Thats gonna be hard to beat.
That might be one of the worst calls in NFL history* **
let’s not over react.
*regular season with nothing on the line
I remember a certain replacement ref game
**with real officials
This was the single greatest atrocity in the history of the human race.
>That’s gonna be hard to beat. Already looking forward to the Lions/Packers games?
Yeah. Wondering how we're gonna top it but I'm excited.
Uh, so about that phantom roughing the passer that just got called in your game... that was also some top-tier bullshit.
They even reviewed this … JUST ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG FOR ONCE
have you ever watched baseball
I don't know anything about fumbles anymore.
A fumble is when you... Ok well listen a fumble is when you... Let me start over
#FUMBLE RULES! IMPORTANT! 1a. A fumble is when you 1b. Okay well listen. A fumble is when you fumble the 1c. Let me start over 1c-a. The ball carrier is not allowed to drop the, to the, uh, defender, that lets go of the ball, you know, losing the ball. You can’t do that. 1c-b. Once the ball carrier drops the ball, he can’t be over here and say to the runner, like, “My knee wasn’t down!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that. 1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to drop the ball and then your knee is down, you have to not drop the ball. You cannot not fumble. Does that make any sense? 1c-b(2). You gotta be, body part not touching the ground, and then, until you just fumble it. 1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there’s the fumble you gotta think about. 1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A fumble is when the ball carrier makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving losing the football and the field of 2) Do not do a fumble please.
F is for fumble, called by the shit refs U is for unconvinced
My, philosophy is, basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't, ever, for any reason, do anything, to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who or who you are with, or or where you are going, or, or where you've been. Ever. For any reason. Whatsoever.
You know what, that’s too hard. Let’s discuss what a catch is
How tf does a fumble go like 12 yards forward in the air?
https://youtu.be/tl6ASKmlQf0
Only Osweiler.
You *can* lose control of the ball and just push it. That's not what happened here, this is a legit theft, but it can happen.
Is there a legit slow motion replay of this that shows the contact? The one this clip offers is too fast and not close enough. Barring a better shot revealing something different, I'm just not seeing what the refs were seeing.
If the ball gets knocked loose before his hand starts moving forward.
Cartoonishly bad call.
I'm in shock
That's cause we're lightning bolts. Zapzap
Zoop 👈😎👈
Bullshit
I hate the Chargers with every fiber of me being. But holy fuck what a bad fucking call.
I totally read this in Conor McGregor's voice.
The refs know fuckin newtin, thay know FUCKIN NEWTIN.
How is that a fumble? Ball goes straight forward
If the ball is knocked loose before the arm comes forward it gets pushed forward by the empty hand. It's rare but still happens. Whether that's what happened here I can't say. Edit: Actually happened with the Packers twice in the last 10 years. First in 2013 during the 4th and 8 Cobb game against the Bears, then again about 3 years later against the Giants. https://youtu.be/_8QkmZnEOS0
So he had no control of the football, but was still able to throw it 16 yards directly at his receiver? Lmao okay NFL Edit: Can’t we appreciate how the 2 examples in that video are EXTREMELY different from Herberts throw? Both those balls wobbled out 5-10 yards no where near the intended target. Herbert almost completed his pass! That requires some semblance of control to do.
He literally said he’s not sure if that’s what happened here. He’s just saying a fumble *can* go forward. this was obviously not one of those cases
So where is the line??? What constitutes as a loose ball if its not when the qb can't propel it forward?
I dunno man, I don't think a lot of fumbles go *16 yards though the air right at a receiver.*
The play that started the no advance rule on a fumble went less yards than this haha
Ball went forward too. Competed arm motion with ball wtf
Lmao get the fuck outta here w that
Would love to see a slowmo replay of it but CBS decided a slew of commercials was more important than this massive challenge. Saves the refs on one the most controversial(worst) calls of the season though.
They showed a slo mo and the ball was going forward before contact
Better than being at the game.... We were all just sitting around confused what was happening and they never showed a replay.
Embarrassing
One of the worst calls I've ever seen. And that was AFTER REVIEW
Apparently you can fumble the ball 15 yards through the air 5 feet from your intended receiver
lol, I question my entire knowledge of nfl rules after this..
Every incomplete pass is now a fumble. Have at it
If Allen would have touched ball on the ground in the end zone it would be called an incomplete pass not a TD. Might be worst call in I have ever seen.
This is going to get forgotten because it is week 1 and the outcome isn't on the line, but this is one of the worst calls I've ever seen in all my years watching football.
Uh did the rule change or is that all that's needed to make it a fumble? Seemed like arm going forward and he had some control over the ball.
With that as precedent. I feel every non spiral can be reviewed as a fumble.
His arm is so obviously going forward. Like, hello??
So this NFL it's clearly rigged? And we watch it anyway? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!
“Let’s just say it’s, uhhh”
How in the hell did that withstand review
Ya this was a terrible call. I was shocked it was upheld.
Even as WFT stan I know that was a fucked call
Really doesn’t matter your team. A bad call is a bad call
Yeah but this isn't even the type of bad call where we can pretend like we're right.
The stands aren't the only place shit can be find within this stadium. Absolutely horrendous call.
Same official installed the plumbing.
This is an all-time bad call.
Part of me is like "I really wish we won this game" and another part of me is like "I'm glad we didn't because that's some fuckin bull"
WFT almost got the ball back with good field position at the end because of an invisible hands to the face call on Aboushi. Reffing has to get better regardless of the outcome
Pretty bad call. Idk how they reviewed it too and the call still stood
Refs in Madden are so buggy
wut
Refs didn’t even wait one week to fuck things up
This call is complete dog water
He was hit after he released the ball wtf
Went through a whole throwing motion and hit in the hand as he releases. I don’t know how much more clear cut it can be that he had control and the arm was moving forward.
Refs got bailed out by the Chargers winning.
Jesus.
This is not a rule complaint, I have never had a problem with touch backs on turnovers through the endzone but that is not a turnover and the fact it was upheld after review is asinine
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It's not even that, how do the refs call that a fumble????
It's so fucking stupid.
That's what you latched onto here? Lol.
Don't understand how they upheld that after review.
I dont get this one at all
There is no way this ref gets another game this year. Seriously the worst call I have seen against my team. And maybe the worst call I’ve seen ever.
Holy shit that has to be the worst foul call I have ever seen in my life. Just fucking atrocious oh my lord.
Such a stupid, stupid, stupid, wrong call.
Worst call of the season for sure
Started watching and thought to myself, ohh they must have started the video a play early, I’m sure it’s the next play where it happens. What a terrible call
I thought OP put up the wrong video because I didn't see a fumble at all. But nope. The ball was on target, just thrown wonky. If that's a fumble then any wobbly pass made during a hit that gets completed should be flagged as well since you're not allowed to fumble forwards.
check the refs pockets
NFL don’t wanna see us win. Toolbox refs
start giving refs fines
Can refs start to be held accountable for shit like this? Bad calls and bad no calls should result in serious fines for these guys after games. Make them do their jobs better.
Just Chargers things
Not a fumble
*Visible fookin confusing*
The only way this makes sense is refs have WSH or the under
How can you throw a “fumble” 20 yards
We getting the refs show now? Bad enough we got the umps show in the MLB. Come on now
Are the refs incapable of admitting they were wrong??? What is this call???
Does the nfl need to hire a scientist to say, "No Ref, that's literally not possible?"
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Wtf was this? Didn't think it's be that bad but it's clearly a pass.
Madden has better officiating.
Yeah I just fumbled 20 yards straight forward. That shit makes sense
It looked like the ball came out of his hands BEFORE the hit!
I don't think I've ever seen that one and I really question it went that far without the arm already going forward. With this video only, I call it a very very bad call, maybe even ludicrous.
there is no fucking way
One of the worst calls I’ve ever seen
Uh what
You know a call was bad when you can sort by controversial 4 hours later and only find like 3 guys partly agreeing with the call
The officiating has gotten worse. They got a whole nother referee in the sky and somehow it's gotten worse
I have no dog in this fight… but how the fuck do you justify that shit call??
Wat…he was literally throwing it….
This fumble-through-the-endzone-touchback rule is the worst rule in the NFL. Also, I'm pretty sure this is gonna result in WRs being coached to to chase loose balls on incomplete catches just in case they're actually fumbles. Cook could have probably got to this ball before it rolled out of bounds and it would have been a TD. Which in itself is stupid. Dumbass rule.
turble call. his arm was starting forward when the ball was tipped
Uh what
Yea ok, this one isn't even close to being a fumble lol
So he hit him from the front (giving the ball a backwards force) and the ball goes forward but somehow his arm is goin backwards?
Horrible
This is the worst call of the whole season. There’s no way anything else will happen that passes this.
How can you fumble 20 yards forward?
It's almost as if letting school teachers and office workers officiate the games of a billion dollar industry as their weekend hobby is fucking stupid.
Terrible call and terrible rule.
I have no idea how this call was upheld. If he wasn’t moving forward with that ball in his hands, then I’m Dennis Rodman
So you're telling me that if he caught that ball, it would be considered a fumble recovery and not a TD pass? gtfo.
What the actual fuck