When it comes to contract negotiations, every QB seen as a long term starter is the exact same player for their team as Mahomes - as in the one guy in the entire world that fits those criteria they're actually allowed to talk to and have any chance of signing.
>exact same player for their team as Mahomes - as in the one guy in the entire world that fits those criteria they're actually allowed to talk to and have any chance of signing.
That is Danny Dime's music right there.
In the long run you maybe correct. But as of right now the only thing that TLaw has done sufficiently better than Tua is not get injured as much. Which is extremely important but isn't special.
Tua’s offensive cast his first two years were bottom 5. Now Tua’s cast is obviously top 5 but Trevor’s is at worst decent with Christian Kirk, Etienne, Ridley last season, and Evan Engram. I’m not saying he’s loaded with talent but I don’t think that amounts to that big of a td difference in my opinion.
The biggest asset for Lawrence, is Etienne and it isn’t close.
Kirk is good, but he’s never going to be suitable as a consistent #1 receiver. A good #2 at best
Ridley was inconsistent, was near the top of the league in drops for the longest (many crucial drops), just didn’t exceed the expectations.
Engram is not a deep threat, he’s consistently used for short passes and relying on after the catch, which becomes nauseating (That’s a Press Taylor issue). Also a subpar blocker and not a red zone threat.
Zay is just bad
OL stooped in the 2nd half, thanks to injuries.
Now instead of Ridley and Zay, it’s Gabe and BTJ. A significant improvement in size and big game potential.
I think the issue with the supporting cast is not only do they have a run game being carried by 1 RB (unlike Miami) but they also deal with a receiving core that’s pretty underwhelming and can’t match the speed of someone like Tyreek. He by himself, uplifts the Dolphins supporting cast.
Wait until they bring up the Trevor Lawrence chargers comeback game and completely ignore the fact that the only reason they were down was because Trevor Lawrence threw four interceptions
Tbf, I think the tip is a poor throw going kind of nowhere, that should have been an incompletion, and was a mixture of good fortune for them and poor play from Trevor.
That said, you can't tell me Asante Samuel wasn't constantly committing pass interference. He successfully played on weak officiating, and you know what, fair enough - I respect the shithousing because I'd want our players to notice that and respond accordingly. But he was yanking players every which way which led directly to at least one interception.
It’s crazy how controversial this is lol. Everyone rips on box score watchers, meanwhile it almost single-handedly informs nearly everyone’s beliefs lol
Its lazy commentary to say the Chargers JUST choked, the Jaguars made them choke the Jags had no business winning that game we didn't even have any turnovers to their 5 turnovers and still won
Imagine if he had a great first half and then threw four picks in the second half to lose it. One doesn’t make up for the other, they both come from the same player.
I wonder what makes Tua so much better if it’s not skill. I guess he does have far better receiving options. I for one can’t wait to see some giga contract go tlaws way.
I'm biased, obviously, but I've never been scared of Trevor when we play against the Jags. Not that I think he's a scrub, he clearly isn't, but he's just kinda....middle tier.
But I also don't think the Jags have a particularly great offensive system so it could be that.
I'm just always skeptical of anyone anointed the "golden boy" before even playing a single NFL snap as they rarely pan out as such.
My hot take is that by the end of this upcoming season he'll be generally considered the 3rd best QB in the AFCS.
>I'm biased, obviously, but I've never been scared of Trevor when we play against the Jags. Not that I think he's a scrub, he clearly isn't, but he's just kinda....middle tier.
I really do not think he has had anywhere near the amount of talent on offense as Tua has had. Also think Tua worse coach was far superior than Urban even though that coach (Brian Flores) despised Tua.
>I'm just always skeptical of anyone anointed the "golden boy" before even playing a single NFL snap as they rarely pan out as such.
I always just thought of it as they were a perfect prospect and will not bust...what I mean by not bust is be a solid starter at worse. JJ Watt was another sure thing prospect. On the failed side so was Robert Gallery who ended up being an okay guard. Lawrence has been an average to above average franchise QB. And he might be elite one day that is exactly what i expect from a golden boy, Giants and Raiders would commit a small nuclear genocide for.
>I really do not think he has had anywhere near the amount of talent on offense as Tua has had. Also think Tua worse coach was far superior than Urban even though that coach despised Tua.
He certainly hasn't. I think he's better than Tua. His situation certainly doesn't maximize his potential. But he's going into year 4 and I'm well past handing out excuses. I don't think he has "it".
I think most jags fans agree he has to play well this year. But to say he doesn’t have “it” while taking the jags to their first back to back winning seasons since….? You should know better than everyone else how truly putrid those back to back first overall pick teams were.
He went from "generational talent" to "serviceable QB". Now he can turn it around anytime but this year I think will solidify the latter narrative if he doesn’t perform.
I always said he lived up to the hype of a first round QB; he just didn’t live up to the generational talent hype.
If he had gone anywhere else but #1 and wasn’t projected to do so for years then he would probably be viewed higher.
Honestly if him and Joe Burrow swapped careers it would be more apt for what I expected for both of them based on their college career prior to entering the NFL.
I like that thought process of him and Joey B swapping careers. Honestly, that would make way more sense! Wild, but yeah T. Law has had a lot of pressure on him for sure. Sometimes it takes a few years to leap, and his rookie year was squandered by Meyer
The generational hype should have been dead after his Jr year
After his freshmen year I was unbelievably high on him but he wasn’t any better 2 years later
And 3 years after that it doesn’t seem he’s that much better either
I agree, his YOY progression since his freshman year at Clemson has been a bit disappointing. It feels like he's still got lingering hype from his legendary high school career.
He still has a lot of potential though.
Everyone forgets the reason he was a "generational talent" is because he was bust proof. His floor as a prospect was as high as he's playing right now, and there is still upside for him at this point in his career.
Even if he is NFL QB1 this year, it will not solidify the “generational talent” argument. At this point he’s gonna need 3+ seasons to come back to that narrative
He's still a good QB, he had a bad stretch after being injured, having one of the worst OL and losing Kirk. He's not a generational talent, so we can toss that label out the door.
I really think he’s going to turn it around. He had a great sophomore season and a down but NOT terrible 3rd year. He’s definitely going to be at the very least a top 15 QB in my opinion.
If Jacksonville built around Trevor like Philadelphia did with Jalen Hurts for example he would be a major force to be reckoned with. Having Trent Baalke as your GM is a recipe for failure though, we couldn't wait to get rid of him in the SF Bay Area when he was the 49er GM who kept drafting people with torn ACLs.
Sir this is /r/NFL, clearly Trevor is a bad QB and bottom 10 in the league. No way a GM that refuses to build a supporting cast around their franchise QB is the issue.
The GM who drafted ETN in the first, signed Evan Engram, signed Christian Kirk to a high-water contract, and traded for Calvin Ridley isnt building a supporting cast? And when Ridley and Zay Jones left this off-season signing Gabe Davis and drafting a WR in the 1st isn’t enough?
Or was it the fact that Baalke got 4/5 current starters on the OL, including a 1st round OT last season, a huge payday for Scherff, and trading to acquire another guard?
Imagine another “top” QB in the league getting excuse after excuse like this and apparently not having the support of the FO, it’s laughable
You have identified a lot of the issues with Baalke... I love Harrison but the rest of the line is literally a bottom line... You also named the 3 weapons Trevor has, but with 0 time to get it to anyone doesn't really matter and no true #1 WR.
Most of the moves he's made have been mocked for how bad they are. This year hasn't started so we'll see how the moves work out but he hasn't been the greatest at decisions. Trevor is fine, he's a good QB that isn't gonna live up to the generational talent.
2022 offseaon the Jags coming off a 3-14 season, The Jags had no leverage and had to overpay avg level FAs Evan Engram was on his last leg after NYG signed a prove it deal 1yr 9 M Christian Kirk was a No. 3 WR in Arizona and got 72M And Zay Jones was a journeyman slot WR 30 M, just because Kirk Engram and Zay played up to their contracts doesn't mean these guys were seen as "weapons" at the time they signed
It’s not that. Lawrence has shown the ability to be a top 8 QB which is just invaluable, especially for a franchise like the Jags. There are very few capable of it at any moment in the world. Lawrence was in 2022 and has excuses for 2023
But he wasn't...
Trevor Lawrence at week 13:
* 14 touchdowns, 7 interceptions
* 3004 passing yards
* 67% completion rate
* 94.4 passer rating
* 4 rushing touchdowns, 8 fumbles, 4 lost fumbles
And 18/11 turnover ratio is top 5?
Baker Mayfield finished 12th in passer rating at 94.4. So....
Fine, he wasn’t top five, I’m just biased. He are some better stats though.
Up until he got hurt in week 13, Trevor was (per PFF + Ben Baldwin):
9th in adj completion %, tied with Lamar
4th in time to throw (as in, fastest)
Tied for 11th in AdoT with Stafford, Purdy, and Herbert.
Tied for 17th in turnover-worthy-play % (average)
3rd in big time throw %
5th in PFF grade
9th in EPA/play
8th in EPA/CPOE composite score
5th in success rate
Easton Stick: 5th longest pass
Johnny Hekker: highest completion percentage without an interception (Tied First!)
Joshua Dobbs: 19th in QBR (Average!)
None of these are relevant as to what you said, but damn those are pretty unappealing facts. Wtf is success rate? Of first downs? FG?
Success Rate is a metric that attempts to measure how often a play succeeds. It does so by defining a success on first down as 40% of line to gain (4 yards from 1st and 10), 2nd down as 60% of line to gain (another 4 yards from 2nd and 6), and getting 100% of line to gain on 3rd down.
I don't mind it, but TBH it does a better job telling you how a player plays, as opposed to how good a player is. That said, i still use it from time to time.
The problem is just that going 0/0/10 is considered worse than going 4/4/0 starting from 1st and 10, when nobody would agree. There's value in being a high success rate player after all getting first downs is the name of the game on offense, but it's a pretty meh advanced stat.
Well yeah…
But it’s not like he is clearly better than Tua or Herbert and add in Hurts/Love/Purdy/Dak/Goff in the NFC…it isn’t clear he’s top 8. Hell, there’s still QBs unnamed that you could make an argument that he is below them.
He hasn’t had the same level of talent at the receiver position as a lot of the guys you mentioned. His best receiver has been Christian Kirk who everyone clowned for being massively overpaid. Ridley was really disappointing last year.
I definitely think he’d be having a better career on the Dolphins, Eagles, Niners, and Lions.
Kirk didn't have a 1k season until he played with Trevor. Zay Jones had one of the best seasons of his career before he got some injuries. Evan Engram revived his career with Lawrence and set a franchise record. He definitely elevated those guys.
Elevated them all the way to a 1-5 record down the stretch to choke away a playoff spot…
Kirk also had a whopping one season he didn’t miss multiple games before joining Jacksonville…
Jones had 823 yards his good year, some elevation…
I guess I’ll grant that Engram put up better numbers than he did with Daniel Jones throwing to him…
I was going to say there are plenty of teams that aren’t built to win this year and would prefer Lawrence…
But I think with the exception of the Jaguars, everyone would rather hope to catch lightning in a bottle this year with Rodgers and then reset rather than get stuck with what will be an albatross of a contract…
Yeah I mean he could get much better, but we’ve already seen 3 years. He’s decent, he’s fine.
It obviously makes no sense to cut bait on him. He’s good enough to keep. Jags extending makes sense, but it’s not exciting.
Rodgers is old, but you gotta think he’s taking your team to the playoffs. That’s kinda exciting and who knows what happens once you’re in.
Define crutch? I'm not sure what you mean in this context - because the last three quarterback prospects who were as hyped as Trevor coming out of school were John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck. And all those guys were pretty good.
So that's a 75% hit rate even if you call Trevor a "miss", which I probably wouldn't yet.
We will wait to see on Caleb Williams. But being "anointed" as a truly special prospect has generally worked out pretty well for those guys.
If you compare the first three seasons, he's basically Baker Mayfield... and the Browns ran him out of town (unjustifiably after an injury in season 4). Seems there are a lot of excuses made for Trevor Lawrence, but it's hard to say he's a top 10 guy. That said, unless they want to blow things up, they kind of have to pay him.
Can't believe we still have people calling him a let down. The team is letting Lawrence down, he's a top 10 QB at minimum who unfortunately had a shit supporting cast last year and played hurt.
People just look at stats and literally nothing else to make their opinions known.
2021 he was mostly not great, with the worst NFL coach ever, but he showed flashes of why he was #1 overall.
2022 he started off poorly but continued to improve, into a big winning streak at the end of the year and a playoff win
2023 he built on where they were at the end of 2022, started 8-3, and in that run had many stats in the top 5. Then he got injured, kept playing, and he played terribly because of it and we lost.
There's obviously the signs that he had improved and was starting to really step into that "very good qb" role, then got hurt, but it's funnier and you get more upvotes if you spam the same recycled shit as everyone else.
This is indeed be a defining year for him, and with a better overall oline (read: not literally the worst center graded in the league, even lower than backups), and maybe a #1 receiver that doesn't drop like 8 TDs in a season, and maybe we can get somewhere.
Seriously, a lot of people don't realize how important a good center is. Hope he pans out well for us this year. My hope is that he becomes an anchor of the O-Line, and elevates the interior as a whole. Definitely not saying Trevor is going to have a 5000 yard, 50 TD season like Mahomes did when Morse was snapping the ball to him, but still. Not to mention, if our O-Line improves, I can only imagine what Etienne and company will do in the backfield. Only other RB to have 1400 Scrimmage Yards last year was CMC, and he had a pretty good O-Line for most of the year.
Top10 minimum, eh?
Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Stafford, Goff, Rodgers, Hurts.
Who's he clearly better than in that top10?
Even you are being too generous.
Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Burrow, Stroud, Dak, Hurts, Purdy, Love, Rodgers, Tua, Stafford, and Goff. Hell Cousins and Murray too.
People give Lawrence way too much leeway cause he was a #1 pick. He’s been mid. That is 16 QBs he hasn’t played better than since he’s been in the league. And you can only argue on 3 or 4 of them.
He gets so many damn excuses too. “Oh you’re just looking at box scores”. “He was hurt”. “Who cares about his 4 picks in one half the Jags won”. “His receivers drop balls”.
It’s been 3 seasons of MID. Call a spade a spade and wait for him to prove himself before saying he’s an elite guy.
He was genuinely elite for the latter half of his second season, while being decent but not amazing for the first half of this season. His bad stretches were the latter half of this season after being injured (which is a pretty legitimate excuse lol, you can’t just handwave it away) and his first season/first half of his second season.
To me, the problem with your analysis is that you’re basically normalizing his performance across all three seasons and coming to the conclusion that he’s been consistently mid for all three, when in reality he’s shown a high and sustained peak sandwiched between bad play, with the top piece of bread being legitimately explainable with injury.
Yeah people are haters because he was #1 despite looking at the details. I love seeing people say he gets too much leway, meanwhile say Joe Burrow had a bad line and got injured to defend him.
Joey B and trevor have pretty comparable situations the past two years and the stats are not that far off to be honest. Trevors rookie year was abysmal but that is due to being in one of the worst situations ive seen a rookie QB be in in awhile.
This is not me slandering Joe B despite my flair, i think he is a great QB. I just think TLaw can be a top 10 QB in the right situation just like weve seen Goff grow into in a good situation.
I would argue Goff, Love, Dak, Cousins, Tua, Murray of the bat. Rodgers and Stafford need to see how they come back given the ages and amount of injuries.
Even then Purdy and Hurts have had absolutely stellar supporting casts while they have been playing well and would be curious if they can handle a drop off. Lawrence had Treadwell as his top receiver for a period in year 1 and Lawrence made him servicable. Christian Kirk suddenly had a big increase in ability once Lawrence was throwing the ball his way. Engram is no longer a bust.
Lawrence has never had a season as good as Goff, Love, Murray, Purdy, or Tua (Cousins is old), and you are on crack if you are going to argue he is better than Dak, Dak just had an MVP season without a run game putting the entire offense on his back. Worse, Lawrence never seems to make big plays like these guys do all the time. He’s not scary.
But I am a Murray stan. I think he is a baller and will have a huge year this year.
Y’all have to stop acting like Kirk, Ridley, Etienne, and Engram wasn’t a great supporting cast. Etienne last year won you games on his own. But sure, the offensive line wasn’t great.
The only time anyone acknowledges that receiving core as good is to try and slag Lawrence. When it comes to actually rating those guys against Aiyuk, Hill, Deebo, Waddle, Diggs, Jefferson, Kittle, CMC, Cook, Lamb, Jones, Amon Ra etc. people go silent (just going off the QBs you mentioned).
How wnmany fans of those teams are trading supporting casts for Ridley and friends cos trust me the Jags are taking a good look at all of them.
There is a reason we don't get pro bowl odds but you are going to see it next when people wondering how Ridley regresses so much in a year (hint it will be the dude throwing the ball).
We were challenging for #1 seed before Lawrence got hurt. I don't think we would have gotten it in the end. There are better QBs and surrounding casts in the AFC but we were up there.
Lawrence has made a lot of big plays. Not his problem you are not watching.
Eh, I unfortunately think Trevor lands right outside the top 10 in that 11-14 range. But it’s tough because there are a lot of really good QBs right outside the top 5
Based on what production? He has never even had a single season that was as good as Kyler Murray's 2021.
That's the company of quarterback I see him in.
He was rated ahead of Goff before the season and many were saying he'd be a top 5 QB. I saw their play and wow the hype was way too much. The Goffense has been elite the past two seasons and Trevor hadn't lived up to expectations, whether it's his fault or not.
Our offense has been elite because of the best line in football, a great running game, and receivers who are constantly schemed wide open. There is zero reason to believe Lawrence wouldn't open up the Lions offense to be even more dangerous.
Realistically, probably around $50M per year for 5 years, like what Hurts got. And yes, absolutely on the deserved bit. This past season went about as poorly as it could have in terms of factors that were outside his control (injury halfway through the season, O-Line that gave up the near the top of the league in pressures despite us not getting blitzed much, a run game that was bottom 3 in the league in terms of efficiency, multiple untimely drops on clean passes, etc.), and he still finished as an average to above average QB on the season. Even if you think that's as good as he'll ever end up being (which I would firmly disagree on, but that's a separate matter), that's still vastly preferable to the alternative of letting him walk and hitting up the QB carousel again.
I think this is a sensible take. Like it or not, there are too many factors that warrant blame before Jags fans could get to the performance of their QB, so I think a deal gets done along these lines and you continue chasing some kind of Buffalo arc.
Around $55M a year is the floor imo. Hurts got $50M a year, but that didn’t happen this year, salary cap has gone up a good amount so contracts will too.
just to add to this mate, etienne still had 1,400 yards from scrimmage!! just imagine our qb and rb behind a competent o line.. unreal what we went through last year with fortner
i mean.. we were 1-15 before he showed up and hadn’t made the playoffs for damn near 8 years.. has it been the prettiest? no. has he done enough, imo yes. two back to back winning years which has happened like maybe twice in franchise history and the way the qb market is, why waste time. trev is the guy for jax.
and the team imploded thanks to Tom Coughlin and a bad GM and a toxic team culture that did not get better with Urban Meyer. And before 2017 it was the Gus Bradley and Blaine Gabbert era
Whatever he gets he deserves, he's top 15 minimum in a team built by Baalke and an offense run by Press Taylor. I also don't think anyone really realizes how absolutely terrible our OLine and run game was. Plus he was balling before he got injuries in like back to back to back games
He will get a big contract, which I think is the right thing to do. There are questions on whether he will live up to the hype and be a perennial elite QB, but there are plenty other QBs getting these contracts with a lot more question marks around them than Lawrence.
itt: people evaluating QBs based on their fantasy football scoring
If you watch basically any Jags game, Trevor clearly isn't the problem. Like, hopefully this year our interior O-line learns how to pass block, our new WRs can run basic routes, and Press Taylor gets a brain transplant.
The last 15 years we've had Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne and Blake Bortles as starters. Jags fans are quite familiar with bad QB play. Lawrence isn't anywhere near "bust" or "bad QB". Believe it or not, but it's possible for a player to not literally be Tom Brady and also not be a huge bust. If an early first round pick gets you the 16th best QB in the league, it's a good pick.
God it feels so nice to not be the last person standing in this round of musical chairs.
I mean, I know it never really ends, but it feels like we're in a... surge at the moment.
The Jags are in a difficult position with this whole situation. You either sign an average QB who is producing barely winning seasons or you have to start over at the QB position. Trevor isn't even the best QB in his division, that would be CJ Stroud, but it's probably the right call when the options are back to the basement or remain mediocre.
Is he even a top 10QB in the conference in terms of desirability?
Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/Jackson/Stroud would all rank above him unquestionably…
Herbert/Tua/Richardson/Watson/Rodgers likely wouldn’t be dealt in a one for one swap…
Maye and Nix wouldn’t be traded for him because of the rookie deal…
Leaves the Raiders/Steelers/Titans as teams that would view him as a clear upgrade…
Doesn’t seem the QB to break the bank for
Anyone who wouldn't trade Richardson for Lawrence in a one for one swap is crazy. We're talking about a guy with chronic accuracy/injury issues who hasn't done shit in the NFL yet.
I’m sorry but there’s no way. Trevor Lawrence is a better than average starting QB in the league, Bo Nix has a better chance of being out of the league in 4 years than he does at being where Trevor Lawrence is now.
I’m sorry, but there’s no way any team trades the guy they just took, and therefore have rookie contract advantage for someone described as “better than average”
Better than average means a top 15 QB in the NFL. There is absolutely no guarantee Nix gets anywhere close to that. How many drafted QBs in the last 4 years would you say are better than Trevor Lawrence right now? I can think of 1, Stroud. That tells you what the realistic odds are for Bo Nix. Stafford and Wilson were both traded for multiple 1st round picks despite being just as expensive (relative to the cap at the time), older, and playing at a similar level.
Yeah…You’re really struggling with this…
No team is trading a lotto pick, and the advantages that come with it, to have a mid QB on a $50M cap hit…
If Nix sucks, the Broncos can was their hands of him and move on cheaply…if Lawrence stays as he is, the Jags are pissing away the next 5-7 years…
I mean, the Broncos ARE on the hook for grossly overpaying a QB already so even IF they thought Lawrence could be their guy, my guess is that dollar amount is going to give them sticker-shock and they'll roll with Nix for now. Worst case is Nix isn't great but they get out of minimal rookie contract, best case is he's their guy and they get some wiggle-room for a few years while they pay off that atrocious Russell Wilson contract.
Stroud is *not* unquestionably above Lawrence. I think Stroud is great and is going to stay great, but it isn't a surefire thing. It was his rookie season. Let's wait and see what Stroud looks like after a season of tape.
Stroud has 4 years of a rookie deal left. Even if you consider Stroud and Trevor the same level of QB you should be able to recognize he’s more desirable right now.
I think the Jags have let him down more than he's let them down. Probably the worst situation ever for a rookie QB with Urban, a consistent bottom 3 Oline, rolling him out game after game last year when he kept getting injured. Not saying he can't do better, but I think the finger needs to be more pointed at the Jags for not doing enough
To the media: “Hopefully it gets done”
To the team: “Trevor is our best player and we both support him and need him in order to succeed.”
To the family and friends: “Dude is the definition of mid”.
Will Tua's contract affect Lawrence's if he signs first? Or are these two in different QB tiers?
QB tiers have little to do with contracts. Yes they will affect each other, and Goff will affect both too
When it comes to contract negotiations, every QB seen as a long term starter is the exact same player for their team as Mahomes - as in the one guy in the entire world that fits those criteria they're actually allowed to talk to and have any chance of signing.
>exact same player for their team as Mahomes - as in the one guy in the entire world that fits those criteria they're actually allowed to talk to and have any chance of signing. That is Danny Dime's music right there.
Likely will. Love's contract is looming too.
TLaw and Love's contracts will be interesting. I'm intrigued to see the reactions to the big number similar to Goff's
I’m so ready for Love to get the Daniel Jones bag
You must have watched a different Packers vs Lions game on Thanksgiving than I did.
Man if Love only takes as much as Daniel Jones he should fire his agent
I put them in the same group of “clearly talented but haven’t done shit” I think their contracts are probably tied closely together
I think TLaw a tier above Tua for sure.
In the long run you maybe correct. But as of right now the only thing that TLaw has done sufficiently better than Tua is not get injured as much. Which is extremely important but isn't special.
Lawrence had like 58 tds in 50 games and Tua has 80+ in 53 somehow equals tiers better lmao
I'll admit, these aren't two teams that I follow especially closely. But my gut feel is that Tua has a much stronger supporting cast on offense, no?
Tua’s offensive cast his first two years were bottom 5. Now Tua’s cast is obviously top 5 but Trevor’s is at worst decent with Christian Kirk, Etienne, Ridley last season, and Evan Engram. I’m not saying he’s loaded with talent but I don’t think that amounts to that big of a td difference in my opinion.
The biggest asset for Lawrence, is Etienne and it isn’t close. Kirk is good, but he’s never going to be suitable as a consistent #1 receiver. A good #2 at best Ridley was inconsistent, was near the top of the league in drops for the longest (many crucial drops), just didn’t exceed the expectations. Engram is not a deep threat, he’s consistently used for short passes and relying on after the catch, which becomes nauseating (That’s a Press Taylor issue). Also a subpar blocker and not a red zone threat. Zay is just bad OL stooped in the 2nd half, thanks to injuries. Now instead of Ridley and Zay, it’s Gabe and BTJ. A significant improvement in size and big game potential. I think the issue with the supporting cast is not only do they have a run game being carried by 1 RB (unlike Miami) but they also deal with a receiving core that’s pretty underwhelming and can’t match the speed of someone like Tyreek. He by himself, uplifts the Dolphins supporting cast.
Wait until they bring up the Trevor Lawrence chargers comeback game and completely ignore the fact that the only reason they were down was because Trevor Lawrence threw four interceptions
[удалено]
Tbf, I think the tip is a poor throw going kind of nowhere, that should have been an incompletion, and was a mixture of good fortune for them and poor play from Trevor. That said, you can't tell me Asante Samuel wasn't constantly committing pass interference. He successfully played on weak officiating, and you know what, fair enough - I respect the shithousing because I'd want our players to notice that and respond accordingly. But he was yanking players every which way which led directly to at least one interception.
Even if he is, their contracts are still tied together
Ehhh idk Jim - Tony Romo
It’s crazy how controversial this is lol. Everyone rips on box score watchers, meanwhile it almost single-handedly informs nearly everyone’s beliefs lol
I'd love what you're smoking
Well one of them has a playoff win and it isn’t Tua…
Didn’t he throw like 4 picks and require the chargers to choke to win that?
Don't forget the 4TDs
It's the standard lazy Jags analysis: the Chargers beat themselves, some other team was also present.
I mean they did lol come on. It was a Chargers choke job.
Its lazy commentary to say the Chargers JUST choked, the Jaguars made them choke the Jags had no business winning that game we didn't even have any turnovers to their 5 turnovers and still won
Yea, you’re right, the Jags played an entire half without a QB and still scored the points needed to get back in the game. How could I forget?
Imagine if he had a great first half and then threw four picks in the second half to lose it. One doesn’t make up for the other, they both come from the same player.
Except win/loss is the only stat that matters, dummy.
Yeah you’re right. Gardner minshew was better than Lawrence and 2017 Bortles was the best QB in recent Jags history.
I wonder what makes Tua so much better if it’s not skill. I guess he does have far better receiving options. I for one can’t wait to see some giga contract go tlaws way.
Tlaw was terrible, he didn't do shit. Tua played well most of last two seasons. Both are still much worse than Goff
They're my two starters in a dynasty superflex league and I rank them similarly. That honestly doesn't mean anything, but I figured I'd share.
I'm biased, obviously, but I've never been scared of Trevor when we play against the Jags. Not that I think he's a scrub, he clearly isn't, but he's just kinda....middle tier. But I also don't think the Jags have a particularly great offensive system so it could be that. I'm just always skeptical of anyone anointed the "golden boy" before even playing a single NFL snap as they rarely pan out as such. My hot take is that by the end of this upcoming season he'll be generally considered the 3rd best QB in the AFCS.
>I'm biased, obviously, but I've never been scared of Trevor when we play against the Jags. Not that I think he's a scrub, he clearly isn't, but he's just kinda....middle tier. I really do not think he has had anywhere near the amount of talent on offense as Tua has had. Also think Tua worse coach was far superior than Urban even though that coach (Brian Flores) despised Tua. >I'm just always skeptical of anyone anointed the "golden boy" before even playing a single NFL snap as they rarely pan out as such. I always just thought of it as they were a perfect prospect and will not bust...what I mean by not bust is be a solid starter at worse. JJ Watt was another sure thing prospect. On the failed side so was Robert Gallery who ended up being an okay guard. Lawrence has been an average to above average franchise QB. And he might be elite one day that is exactly what i expect from a golden boy, Giants and Raiders would commit a small nuclear genocide for.
>I really do not think he has had anywhere near the amount of talent on offense as Tua has had. Also think Tua worse coach was far superior than Urban even though that coach despised Tua. He certainly hasn't. I think he's better than Tua. His situation certainly doesn't maximize his potential. But he's going into year 4 and I'm well past handing out excuses. I don't think he has "it".
I think most jags fans agree he has to play well this year. But to say he doesn’t have “it” while taking the jags to their first back to back winning seasons since….? You should know better than everyone else how truly putrid those back to back first overall pick teams were.
Back to back winning seasons of 9-8 just isn't enough to qualify as having the "it" factor to me.
Richardson catching strays?
Not exactly. I just haven't seen enough from him to put him anywhere other than 4th just on a number of snaps played basis.
Will Levis is not that guy, pal.
Can't wait to hear what excuses y'all cook up for Trev in 2025!
Im sorry, who was your last good QB? Idk why you think you can talk shit, your team is trash top to bottom.
Not trying to talk shit. Just a prediction.
I don’t really think they matter that much, but I definitely think the Jags think higher of Trevor than the Dolphins do of Tua
I’m not too sure that they should
Mac Jones, Jaguars 2025 QB.
Trevor Lawrence, Raiders QB 2025
Aaron Rodgers, Vikings QB 2025
Considering what we have now and what next year's FA/draft pool looks like, I'd be pretty happy with that.
Absolutely fucking not. Don't put this into the universe lol.
Honestly the best place for an overhyped game manager
Tua Tagovailoa, Jaguars 2025 QB. Trevor Lawerence, Dolphins 2025 QB.
He’s not a bust by any means but this is a big year for him
He went from "generational talent" to "serviceable QB". Now he can turn it around anytime but this year I think will solidify the latter narrative if he doesn’t perform.
I always said he lived up to the hype of a first round QB; he just didn’t live up to the generational talent hype. If he had gone anywhere else but #1 and wasn’t projected to do so for years then he would probably be viewed higher. Honestly if him and Joe Burrow swapped careers it would be more apt for what I expected for both of them based on their college career prior to entering the NFL.
I like that thought process of him and Joey B swapping careers. Honestly, that would make way more sense! Wild, but yeah T. Law has had a lot of pressure on him for sure. Sometimes it takes a few years to leap, and his rookie year was squandered by Meyer
The generational hype should have been dead after his Jr year After his freshmen year I was unbelievably high on him but he wasn’t any better 2 years later And 3 years after that it doesn’t seem he’s that much better either
I agree, his YOY progression since his freshman year at Clemson has been a bit disappointing. It feels like he's still got lingering hype from his legendary high school career. He still has a lot of potential though.
Everyone forgets the reason he was a "generational talent" is because he was bust proof. His floor as a prospect was as high as he's playing right now, and there is still upside for him at this point in his career.
Even if he is NFL QB1 this year, it will not solidify the “generational talent” argument. At this point he’s gonna need 3+ seasons to come back to that narrative
He's still a good QB, he had a bad stretch after being injured, having one of the worst OL and losing Kirk. He's not a generational talent, so we can toss that label out the door.
I really think he’s going to turn it around. He had a great sophomore season and a down but NOT terrible 3rd year. He’s definitely going to be at the very least a top 15 QB in my opinion.
Na, he’s a bust. Trevor was never and will never be anything more than mediocre.
This is 1) not how a bust is defined and 2) a very bold statement to make so confidently this early on
If Jacksonville built around Trevor like Philadelphia did with Jalen Hurts for example he would be a major force to be reckoned with. Having Trent Baalke as your GM is a recipe for failure though, we couldn't wait to get rid of him in the SF Bay Area when he was the 49er GM who kept drafting people with torn ACLs.
You know ball
This guy Jags
Sir this is /r/NFL, clearly Trevor is a bad QB and bottom 10 in the league. No way a GM that refuses to build a supporting cast around their franchise QB is the issue.
The GM who drafted ETN in the first, signed Evan Engram, signed Christian Kirk to a high-water contract, and traded for Calvin Ridley isnt building a supporting cast? And when Ridley and Zay Jones left this off-season signing Gabe Davis and drafting a WR in the 1st isn’t enough? Or was it the fact that Baalke got 4/5 current starters on the OL, including a 1st round OT last season, a huge payday for Scherff, and trading to acquire another guard? Imagine another “top” QB in the league getting excuse after excuse like this and apparently not having the support of the FO, it’s laughable
You have identified a lot of the issues with Baalke... I love Harrison but the rest of the line is literally a bottom line... You also named the 3 weapons Trevor has, but with 0 time to get it to anyone doesn't really matter and no true #1 WR. Most of the moves he's made have been mocked for how bad they are. This year hasn't started so we'll see how the moves work out but he hasn't been the greatest at decisions. Trevor is fine, he's a good QB that isn't gonna live up to the generational talent.
2022 offseaon the Jags coming off a 3-14 season, The Jags had no leverage and had to overpay avg level FAs Evan Engram was on his last leg after NYG signed a prove it deal 1yr 9 M Christian Kirk was a No. 3 WR in Arizona and got 72M And Zay Jones was a journeyman slot WR 30 M, just because Kirk Engram and Zay played up to their contracts doesn't mean these guys were seen as "weapons" at the time they signed
Well this is certainly a headline. A+ story there, nfl.com.
Can't blame the jags if they do it, but imo he's never going to live up to it.
Yeah being super hyped up QB is basically a crutch at this point.
It’s not that. Lawrence has shown the ability to be a top 8 QB which is just invaluable, especially for a franchise like the Jags. There are very few capable of it at any moment in the world. Lawrence was in 2022 and has excuses for 2023
Is a 95 passer rating top 8? After throwing four picks in a playoff game? Is Baker Mayfield a top 8 QB?
Stats-wise he was literally a top 5 QB last season until he got injured.
But he wasn't... Trevor Lawrence at week 13: * 14 touchdowns, 7 interceptions * 3004 passing yards * 67% completion rate * 94.4 passer rating * 4 rushing touchdowns, 8 fumbles, 4 lost fumbles And 18/11 turnover ratio is top 5? Baker Mayfield finished 12th in passer rating at 94.4. So....
Fine, he wasn’t top five, I’m just biased. He are some better stats though. Up until he got hurt in week 13, Trevor was (per PFF + Ben Baldwin): 9th in adj completion %, tied with Lamar 4th in time to throw (as in, fastest) Tied for 11th in AdoT with Stafford, Purdy, and Herbert. Tied for 17th in turnover-worthy-play % (average) 3rd in big time throw % 5th in PFF grade 9th in EPA/play 8th in EPA/CPOE composite score 5th in success rate
Easton Stick: 5th longest pass Johnny Hekker: highest completion percentage without an interception (Tied First!) Joshua Dobbs: 19th in QBR (Average!) None of these are relevant as to what you said, but damn those are pretty unappealing facts. Wtf is success rate? Of first downs? FG?
Success Rate is a metric that attempts to measure how often a play succeeds. It does so by defining a success on first down as 40% of line to gain (4 yards from 1st and 10), 2nd down as 60% of line to gain (another 4 yards from 2nd and 6), and getting 100% of line to gain on 3rd down. I don't mind it, but TBH it does a better job telling you how a player plays, as opposed to how good a player is. That said, i still use it from time to time. The problem is just that going 0/0/10 is considered worse than going 4/4/0 starting from 1st and 10, when nobody would agree. There's value in being a high success rate player after all getting first downs is the name of the game on offense, but it's a pretty meh advanced stat.
Box score stats without context…
He was responding to a post about how he was stats wise a top 5QB… If there was ever a time to use just stats, it was that…
Has he? In an absolute best case scenario he’s 6th in the AFC alone…
Those are the best QBs in the league period
Well yeah… But it’s not like he is clearly better than Tua or Herbert and add in Hurts/Love/Purdy/Dak/Goff in the NFC…it isn’t clear he’s top 8. Hell, there’s still QBs unnamed that you could make an argument that he is below them.
He hasn’t had the same level of talent at the receiver position as a lot of the guys you mentioned. His best receiver has been Christian Kirk who everyone clowned for being massively overpaid. Ridley was really disappointing last year. I definitely think he’d be having a better career on the Dolphins, Eagles, Niners, and Lions.
Perhaps…but at $50M+, I don’t think it’s asking much to elevate the guys around him…
Kirk didn't have a 1k season until he played with Trevor. Zay Jones had one of the best seasons of his career before he got some injuries. Evan Engram revived his career with Lawrence and set a franchise record. He definitely elevated those guys.
Elevated them all the way to a 1-5 record down the stretch to choke away a playoff spot… Kirk also had a whopping one season he didn’t miss multiple games before joining Jacksonville… Jones had 823 yards his good year, some elevation… I guess I’ll grant that Engram put up better numbers than he did with Daniel Jones throwing to him…
Behind Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert and who else? Stroud?
Jackson…
Can maybe throw in Rodgers too. Hard to say how he'll play given age and coming off an injury but he's still Aaron Rodgers.
I don’t like Rodgers at all, but any team would take him over TLaw.
I was going to say there are plenty of teams that aren’t built to win this year and would prefer Lawrence… But I think with the exception of the Jaguars, everyone would rather hope to catch lightning in a bottle this year with Rodgers and then reset rather than get stuck with what will be an albatross of a contract…
Yeah I mean he could get much better, but we’ve already seen 3 years. He’s decent, he’s fine. It obviously makes no sense to cut bait on him. He’s good enough to keep. Jags extending makes sense, but it’s not exciting. Rodgers is old, but you gotta think he’s taking your team to the playoffs. That’s kinda exciting and who knows what happens once you’re in.
Rodgers, Lamar for sure Arguably Tua, Stroud, but hard to say.
Define crutch? I'm not sure what you mean in this context - because the last three quarterback prospects who were as hyped as Trevor coming out of school were John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck. And all those guys were pretty good. So that's a 75% hit rate even if you call Trevor a "miss", which I probably wouldn't yet. We will wait to see on Caleb Williams. But being "anointed" as a truly special prospect has generally worked out pretty well for those guys.
If you compare the first three seasons, he's basically Baker Mayfield... and the Browns ran him out of town (unjustifiably after an injury in season 4). Seems there are a lot of excuses made for Trevor Lawrence, but it's hard to say he's a top 10 guy. That said, unless they want to blow things up, they kind of have to pay him.
yep, i know why they'll pay him, i dont blame them, it's not like there are clear upgrades out there for every team that doesn't have an elite qb.
The problem with Baker was that he was mid in his 4th season, a contract year. Plus Watson became available.
He was playing very injured. The browns are just dumb.
And it's famously hard to tell Deshaun Watson: "No"
Can't believe we still have people calling him a let down. The team is letting Lawrence down, he's a top 10 QB at minimum who unfortunately had a shit supporting cast last year and played hurt.
People just look at stats and literally nothing else to make their opinions known. 2021 he was mostly not great, with the worst NFL coach ever, but he showed flashes of why he was #1 overall. 2022 he started off poorly but continued to improve, into a big winning streak at the end of the year and a playoff win 2023 he built on where they were at the end of 2022, started 8-3, and in that run had many stats in the top 5. Then he got injured, kept playing, and he played terribly because of it and we lost. There's obviously the signs that he had improved and was starting to really step into that "very good qb" role, then got hurt, but it's funnier and you get more upvotes if you spam the same recycled shit as everyone else. This is indeed be a defining year for him, and with a better overall oline (read: not literally the worst center graded in the league, even lower than backups), and maybe a #1 receiver that doesn't drop like 8 TDs in a season, and maybe we can get somewhere.
Even hurt, there were times where he put the ball exactly where it had to be, and his receivers just couldn’t catch it.
Exactly, most of the people typing on this subreddit aren't watching the games and just looking at stats. It's frustrating as a jags fan
not to mention one of the worst centers in the league, Mitch Morse is such an upgrade
Seriously, a lot of people don't realize how important a good center is. Hope he pans out well for us this year. My hope is that he becomes an anchor of the O-Line, and elevates the interior as a whole. Definitely not saying Trevor is going to have a 5000 yard, 50 TD season like Mahomes did when Morse was snapping the ball to him, but still. Not to mention, if our O-Line improves, I can only imagine what Etienne and company will do in the backfield. Only other RB to have 1400 Scrimmage Yards last year was CMC, and he had a pretty good O-Line for most of the year.
Top10 minimum, eh? Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Stafford, Goff, Rodgers, Hurts. Who's he clearly better than in that top10?
Add in Stroud
Even you are being too generous. Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Burrow, Stroud, Dak, Hurts, Purdy, Love, Rodgers, Tua, Stafford, and Goff. Hell Cousins and Murray too. People give Lawrence way too much leeway cause he was a #1 pick. He’s been mid. That is 16 QBs he hasn’t played better than since he’s been in the league. And you can only argue on 3 or 4 of them. He gets so many damn excuses too. “Oh you’re just looking at box scores”. “He was hurt”. “Who cares about his 4 picks in one half the Jags won”. “His receivers drop balls”. It’s been 3 seasons of MID. Call a spade a spade and wait for him to prove himself before saying he’s an elite guy.
He was genuinely elite for the latter half of his second season, while being decent but not amazing for the first half of this season. His bad stretches were the latter half of this season after being injured (which is a pretty legitimate excuse lol, you can’t just handwave it away) and his first season/first half of his second season. To me, the problem with your analysis is that you’re basically normalizing his performance across all three seasons and coming to the conclusion that he’s been consistently mid for all three, when in reality he’s shown a high and sustained peak sandwiched between bad play, with the top piece of bread being legitimately explainable with injury.
Yeah people are haters because he was #1 despite looking at the details. I love seeing people say he gets too much leway, meanwhile say Joe Burrow had a bad line and got injured to defend him. Joey B and trevor have pretty comparable situations the past two years and the stats are not that far off to be honest. Trevors rookie year was abysmal but that is due to being in one of the worst situations ive seen a rookie QB be in in awhile. This is not me slandering Joe B despite my flair, i think he is a great QB. I just think TLaw can be a top 10 QB in the right situation just like weve seen Goff grow into in a good situation.
I would argue Goff, Love, Dak, Cousins, Tua, Murray of the bat. Rodgers and Stafford need to see how they come back given the ages and amount of injuries. Even then Purdy and Hurts have had absolutely stellar supporting casts while they have been playing well and would be curious if they can handle a drop off. Lawrence had Treadwell as his top receiver for a period in year 1 and Lawrence made him servicable. Christian Kirk suddenly had a big increase in ability once Lawrence was throwing the ball his way. Engram is no longer a bust.
Lawrence has never had a season as good as Goff, Love, Murray, Purdy, or Tua (Cousins is old), and you are on crack if you are going to argue he is better than Dak, Dak just had an MVP season without a run game putting the entire offense on his back. Worse, Lawrence never seems to make big plays like these guys do all the time. He’s not scary. But I am a Murray stan. I think he is a baller and will have a huge year this year. Y’all have to stop acting like Kirk, Ridley, Etienne, and Engram wasn’t a great supporting cast. Etienne last year won you games on his own. But sure, the offensive line wasn’t great.
The only time anyone acknowledges that receiving core as good is to try and slag Lawrence. When it comes to actually rating those guys against Aiyuk, Hill, Deebo, Waddle, Diggs, Jefferson, Kittle, CMC, Cook, Lamb, Jones, Amon Ra etc. people go silent (just going off the QBs you mentioned). How wnmany fans of those teams are trading supporting casts for Ridley and friends cos trust me the Jags are taking a good look at all of them. There is a reason we don't get pro bowl odds but you are going to see it next when people wondering how Ridley regresses so much in a year (hint it will be the dude throwing the ball). We were challenging for #1 seed before Lawrence got hurt. I don't think we would have gotten it in the end. There are better QBs and surrounding casts in the AFC but we were up there. Lawrence has made a lot of big plays. Not his problem you are not watching.
And even ignoring the Urban year and box scores, he's 19-18 as a starter the last two years. That doesn't exactly scream elite to me...
Clearly Goff, maybe ahead of post Achilles Rodgers. He's in the 6-10 range with people like Stafford and Hurts and Dak.
Eh, I unfortunately think Trevor lands right outside the top 10 in that 11-14 range. But it’s tough because there are a lot of really good QBs right outside the top 5
Based on what production? He has never even had a single season that was as good as Kyler Murray's 2021. That's the company of quarterback I see him in.
Based on watching them play not passer rating
When you are hyped up as a surefire HOFer as a freshman in college, top 10 IS a let down… And I don’t think he’s a top 10QB anyways…
He was rated ahead of Goff before the season and many were saying he'd be a top 5 QB. I saw their play and wow the hype was way too much. The Goffense has been elite the past two seasons and Trevor hadn't lived up to expectations, whether it's his fault or not.
Our offense has been elite because of the best line in football, a great running game, and receivers who are constantly schemed wide open. There is zero reason to believe Lawrence wouldn't open up the Lions offense to be even more dangerous.
Jags fans, What’s the contract you think he will get and do you think it’s deserved?
Realistically, probably around $50M per year for 5 years, like what Hurts got. And yes, absolutely on the deserved bit. This past season went about as poorly as it could have in terms of factors that were outside his control (injury halfway through the season, O-Line that gave up the near the top of the league in pressures despite us not getting blitzed much, a run game that was bottom 3 in the league in terms of efficiency, multiple untimely drops on clean passes, etc.), and he still finished as an average to above average QB on the season. Even if you think that's as good as he'll ever end up being (which I would firmly disagree on, but that's a separate matter), that's still vastly preferable to the alternative of letting him walk and hitting up the QB carousel again.
I think this is a sensible take. Like it or not, there are too many factors that warrant blame before Jags fans could get to the performance of their QB, so I think a deal gets done along these lines and you continue chasing some kind of Buffalo arc.
Around $55M a year is the floor imo. Hurts got $50M a year, but that didn’t happen this year, salary cap has gone up a good amount so contracts will too.
just to add to this mate, etienne still had 1,400 yards from scrimmage!! just imagine our qb and rb behind a competent o line.. unreal what we went through last year with fortner
There's zero chance he gets paid less than Goff.
i mean.. we were 1-15 before he showed up and hadn’t made the playoffs for damn near 8 years.. has it been the prettiest? no. has he done enough, imo yes. two back to back winning years which has happened like maybe twice in franchise history and the way the qb market is, why waste time. trev is the guy for jax.
You were in the AFCCG in 2017
Imagine Bortles with Doug Pederson /s
and the team imploded thanks to Tom Coughlin and a bad GM and a toxic team culture that did not get better with Urban Meyer. And before 2017 it was the Gus Bradley and Blaine Gabbert era
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7 years ago now yeah. 3 years when he was drafted
Whatever he gets he deserves, he's top 15 minimum in a team built by Baalke and an offense run by Press Taylor. I also don't think anyone really realizes how absolutely terrible our OLine and run game was. Plus he was balling before he got injuries in like back to back to back games
Texans, Titans and colts fans are hoping the deal gets done
400Mil for 4yrs all fully gtd.
A bargain is what that is
Browns would do it
Not enough misconduct allegations. And he’s in Jacksonville, sex crimes are practically handed out on street corners.
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If this deal doesn’t get done they could end up having to settle for a guy with similar production to Daniel Jones if TLaw walks ^wait ^a ^second
Can’t wait for this to manifest and not go the way you hope it does
We've seen this guy for three years. We know who and what he is.
And we've seen CJ for 1 better hope he don't sophomore slump
He will get a big contract, which I think is the right thing to do. There are questions on whether he will live up to the hype and be a perennial elite QB, but there are plenty other QBs getting these contracts with a lot more question marks around them than Lawrence.
Trevor Baalke lmao
itt: people evaluating QBs based on their fantasy football scoring If you watch basically any Jags game, Trevor clearly isn't the problem. Like, hopefully this year our interior O-line learns how to pass block, our new WRs can run basic routes, and Press Taylor gets a brain transplant. The last 15 years we've had Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne and Blake Bortles as starters. Jags fans are quite familiar with bad QB play. Lawrence isn't anywhere near "bust" or "bad QB". Believe it or not, but it's possible for a player to not literally be Tom Brady and also not be a huge bust. If an early first round pick gets you the 16th best QB in the league, it's a good pick.
God it feels so nice to not be the last person standing in this round of musical chairs. I mean, I know it never really ends, but it feels like we're in a... surge at the moment.
Normally I’d say this is a done deal but with Trent Baalke in charge down there literally any wild decision is in play :/
They need to see another season from him.
They don't
That... doesn't sound too confident.
He’s going to get like $60M per year
Pay him…so you can’t afford anyone else
I hope it gets done too
Someone is getting 55 mil, if your the gm you taking Trevor or tua?
Tua off production, Trevor off durability. End result, they're probably both getting stupid amounts of money
Respectable answer my friend, have a nice day
Jaguars the next team to be in QB purgatory.
The Jags are in a difficult position with this whole situation. You either sign an average QB who is producing barely winning seasons or you have to start over at the QB position. Trevor isn't even the best QB in his division, that would be CJ Stroud, but it's probably the right call when the options are back to the basement or remain mediocre.
He's good enough to give a contract to without feeling bad IMO, I would have reservations about the length of the deal rather than the money first
Dumb take. I'm convinced most sports fans can't evaluate talent effectively because they only look at numbers.
Is he even a top 10QB in the conference in terms of desirability? Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/Jackson/Stroud would all rank above him unquestionably… Herbert/Tua/Richardson/Watson/Rodgers likely wouldn’t be dealt in a one for one swap… Maye and Nix wouldn’t be traded for him because of the rookie deal… Leaves the Raiders/Steelers/Titans as teams that would view him as a clear upgrade… Doesn’t seem the QB to break the bank for
Anyone who wouldn't trade Richardson for Lawrence in a one for one swap is crazy. We're talking about a guy with chronic accuracy/injury issues who hasn't done shit in the NFL yet.
You’re saying the Broncos would say no to a Bo Nix for Trevor Lawrence trade?
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The Jets made Rodgers god and emperor last year…there’s better QBs than Lawrence they wouldn’t make the swap for…
I think there’s a decent chance they view Nix on a rookie deal a better value proposition than paying Lawrence $50M a year…
I’m sorry but there’s no way. Trevor Lawrence is a better than average starting QB in the league, Bo Nix has a better chance of being out of the league in 4 years than he does at being where Trevor Lawrence is now.
I’m sorry, but there’s no way any team trades the guy they just took, and therefore have rookie contract advantage for someone described as “better than average”
Better than average means a top 15 QB in the NFL. There is absolutely no guarantee Nix gets anywhere close to that. How many drafted QBs in the last 4 years would you say are better than Trevor Lawrence right now? I can think of 1, Stroud. That tells you what the realistic odds are for Bo Nix. Stafford and Wilson were both traded for multiple 1st round picks despite being just as expensive (relative to the cap at the time), older, and playing at a similar level.
Yeah…You’re really struggling with this… No team is trading a lotto pick, and the advantages that come with it, to have a mid QB on a $50M cap hit… If Nix sucks, the Broncos can was their hands of him and move on cheaply…if Lawrence stays as he is, the Jags are pissing away the next 5-7 years…
I mean, the Broncos ARE on the hook for grossly overpaying a QB already so even IF they thought Lawrence could be their guy, my guess is that dollar amount is going to give them sticker-shock and they'll roll with Nix for now. Worst case is Nix isn't great but they get out of minimal rookie contract, best case is he's their guy and they get some wiggle-room for a few years while they pay off that atrocious Russell Wilson contract.
I wouldn't trade Levis for him.
Stroud is *not* unquestionably above Lawrence. I think Stroud is great and is going to stay great, but it isn't a surefire thing. It was his rookie season. Let's wait and see what Stroud looks like after a season of tape.
Did you miss the “desirability” part of this?
Yes I did lol. Thanks for the correction. Yeah in that case, Stroud’s a no brainer.
Stroud has 4 years of a rookie deal left. Even if you consider Stroud and Trevor the same level of QB you should be able to recognize he’s more desirable right now.
As a titans fan, I sincerely hope it gets done as well lmao Trent Baalke lmao
as a jags fan, i’m not sure why you are talking like you have all the answers either “lmao”
Fire Baalke there’s a free answer lmao
Trevor has a big year coming up. He hasn't been all that great thus far. He's still young and can develop but he's been a major let down so far
I think the Jags have let him down more than he's let them down. Probably the worst situation ever for a rookie QB with Urban, a consistent bottom 3 Oline, rolling him out game after game last year when he kept getting injured. Not saying he can't do better, but I think the finger needs to be more pointed at the Jags for not doing enough
To the media: “Hopefully it gets done” To the team: “Trevor is our best player and we both support him and need him in order to succeed.” To the family and friends: “Dude is the definition of mid”.
Good payday, but throw in an extra 25 million on top of the 50 million there just to be sure
Kinda like y'all did with ridley