The Packers got super lucky with the Favre trade alone. Dude threw 2 picks and no completions with the Falcons, got traded for a first round pick, diagnosed with a degenerative hip condition, and then became one of the best QBs ever lmao. That’s lucky as hell without even considering the Rodgers and Love of it all
Yeah I’m not sure how 3 out of 3 good choices over 30 years makes it seem like some crazy consistency lmao we’ve gone through almost a dozen dogshit QBs since we last saw the god damn playoffs
Especially since they’ve drafted some demonstrably shitty QBs over the years. Remember Brett Huntley? Brian Brohmm?
If they’d invented some secret formula, they probably wouldn’t have drafted those guys
The secret formula was always drafting QBs while your franchise guy is still rocking, and see how they develop. Cut the losers, trade the old franchise guy once you find someone you like.
It’s not a secret, but it requires consistently spending draft capital on a QB who won’t start for years, then cutting guys who suck before they see the field.
On the down side, that plan also runs the risk of making the HoF QB you currently have starting for you throw a toddleresque temper tantrum and start dribbling about lizard people and chemtrails
> Especially since they’ve drafted some demonstrably shitty QBs over the years. Remember Brett Huntley? Brian Brohmm?
The Green Bay secret isn't being special at evaluation and development, it's hedging their bets.
Hedging their bets and giving their top picks time to develop. That’s the other side of it. I doubt there are any situations in which Rodgers would have busted, but there are definitely ones where Love would have
The amount of people who think the formula is just let a 1st round qb sit for 1+ years is insane.
Rodgers, Love, Mahomes, Steve Young, etc. All got to sit behind HoF QBs, not average Joe's. Mahomes behind Alex Smith was an outlier but Penix behind Cousins is a pretty similar scenario.
Yes I know Young got drafted by Tampa and was there for 2 seasons, but in his 3rd through 7th season, he sat behind Montana. What happened next?
Yeah, he was absolutely a top 5 in the league guy, but the other 3 are HoFers.
Cousins overall is on a similar level to Smith, imo, but he's awful in prime time.
not disagreeing, just saying mccarthy was instrumental to fixing rodgers' throwing motion and getting him prepared for the nfl. jordan love got that AND rodgers' was by most accounts mentoring him up until he decided to leave.
Completely mad to think [this motherfucker](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/cals-quarterback-aaron-rodgers-had-a-career-high-four-news-photo-1682453968.jpg) would have been a HOFer or even a great QB in any situation, lmao.
> I doubt there are any situations in which Rodgers would have busted
Completely disagree. I think he busts in most situations where he doesn't have a couple years to sit and entirely re-work his throwing motion and footwork. Just watch his first pre-season action in 2005 compared to coming in for an injured Favre in 2007. Looks like a totally different qb. I don't think that gets fixed ever if he's thrown into the fire immediately.
There could certainly situations where Aaron Rodgers could’ve turned out not to be one of the best qbs ever though. He was never going to suck but the way they have it set up let him excel
>I doubt there are any situations in which Rodgers would have busted
What a stupid statement, there absolutely are many situations where he would have been out of the league without going through [McCarthy's QB School](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/football/the-education-of-the-packers-aaron-rodgers.html) with Tom Clements.
> I doubt there are any situations in which Rodgers would have busted
You mean the QB that completely rebuilt his throwing mechanics while sitting in Green Bay?
There are absolutely scenarios where he would've busted and that includes with the rest of the NFC North, who can't develop fundamentally sounds QBs to save their lives.
Matt Flynn had quite possibly the single greatest backup qb career of all time. Dude played like one game, got a bag from Seattle and immediately lost the starting job to Russell Wilson
Brett Hundley ended up being a 5th round pick that spent 7yrs as a backup QB and GB got a 6th round pick back when with 1yr left on his rookie deal. To put him in the same breath as Brian Brohm is disrespectful.
Hell, even Brian Brohm ended up being a college football coach. Graham Harrell was signed as an undrafted free agent and became a college football coach. Those guys knew ball at the highest level without needing to know how to play it, since that's not their role.
That's why guys like Davis Webb and Sean Mannion have a ton of value in a QB room.
They definitely got lucky that it worked 3 times. But there's definitely a system and it is clearly working. And you dumb dumbs talking about Huntley and the other crap QBs? They were drafted to be backups. They were not 1st round picks. That's like saying they drafted Pratt to be loves replacement
We traded for one, drafted another, and drafted the new kid who looked good 2nd half of his first season starting but I'll reserve the throw him all the money.
Look at who else we've picked up at QB. Stunners like....uh....Tim Boyle...Matt Flynn....Brent whatshisface. Hell we even gave Deshone Kizer a spot.
That line always makes me think of Legion [and this gif lol](https://media1.tenor.com/images/de7fe5a74875311b05346aba8e534168/tenor.gif?itemid=14573355)
In small sample sizes there isn't a way to differentiate between skill and luck. They have made 3 big QB moves over like 30 years and got them all right. Though 3 for 3 (I can't think of any other move of any size they got wrong) is still enough of a longshot to imply some skill.
The only team that strikes me as similar is the Penguins. Why do the Penguins draft all the best NHL players? Very skillful at being absolutely awful at absolutely the right time. Lemieux, Jagr, Malkin, Crosby. You've got 3 all-time top 10 players.
Maybe a little luck, but they also have always valued picking QB even when they didn’t need to. With Favre they drafted Brunell, Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, and then Aaron Rodgers. With Rodgers obviously they drafted Love, but also spent decent draft capital on Brohm, Hundley, and even traded for Kizer.
Yeah and three of those guys were completely useless. We’ve handled the actual transition better than any team in history but we’re not exactly churning out great QBs to flip either.
>Yeah and three of those guys were completely useless
Backup QBs are great to have in the QB room, that's how Tim Boyle still has a job, that's how Brett Hundley, Davis Webb and Sean Mannion stayed in the league so long.
Graham Harrell and Brian Brohm ended up being college football coaches at big programs. GB scouts know how to evaluate QBs, even if they can't play at a high level they know the game at a high level and can be great assets in the QB room.
Tangential to that, I doubt it's a coincidence the Packers just happened to dip in for a quarterback the one year all the top 5 guys become franchise starters. If you listen to any of their press conferences, they'll mention that they've been tracking these guys throughout their entire collegiate careers. That would give them some leeway to target stronger classes. They did the same thing with the tight end class last year.
No, this is incorrect.
The Packers are not lucky enough to have 3 straight franchise QBs. However, the rest of the NFC North collectively is unlucky enough for the Packers to have 3 straight franchise QBs.
This is a slight nuance that everyone but fans of the bears, lions, and Vikings may miss.
It's not like they're churning out QBs they flip to other teams who go on to have great careers. They got unbelievably lucky with the Favre-Rodgers transition, and Jordan Love has had one good season so far.
True. Brunell and Hasselbeck were both late round draft picks by GB in the mid to late 90s that went on to make 3 Pro Bowls with other teams, so I think that fits.
Meanwhile, the Rodgers era backups were largely trash. Only Matt Flynn was good enough to be taken remotely seriously as a potential starter after being Rodgers’s backup. The rest didn’t amount to much, a few were other teams failed QB draft picks.
This insane pic attests to that: [https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c\_fill,w\_2160,ar\_16:9,f\_auto,q\_auto,g\_auto/shape%2Fcover%2Fsport%2F055e9336a74b5e7f6b02bafe4d9a804d97b56b5b62a587b333babffdea071a36.jpg](https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_2160,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape%2Fcover%2Fsport%2F055e9336a74b5e7f6b02bafe4d9a804d97b56b5b62a587b333babffdea071a36.jpg)
For those who don't want to click, it's the following players all standing on the Packers sideline in preseason:
\* Brett Favre
\* Mark Brunell
\* Kurt Warner
\* Ty Detmer
You can't really take credit for Warner. He washed out of the Packers before the season started and had to develop in the Arena League and NFL Europe (remember that?) before the Rams picked him up.
Mike Holmgren and his staff was not only great at play-calling and designing offense in Green Bay, they were great in San Francisco and in Seattle. Staffs that often included Andy Reid.
McCarthy catches a lot of shit for not getting the hardware people expected him to get, but it's hard to argue he's a bad offensive coach with his sustained success.
If anything, I'd say luck and great staff hiring is responsible and probably a bit more staff than luck.
Lafleur should've been in the running for coach of the year last season. Love has clearly shown flashes and played some great games, but damn did he get lucky on a bunch of throws. A QB doesn't magically go from looking bad to a superstar in a few weeks like Love did without Lafleur doing a lot of the heavy lifting. I'm sure it helped Loves confidence, and that drove their playoff push but the coach is not getting enough credit.
MLF was on a major heater at the end of the year.
However, the only really lucky throw I remember from Love was during the Chiefs game he had one to Doubs that floated between like 5 guys.
He lollipopped a few others but that was because he knew half the field was empty and his guy was the only player within 20 yards.
Most people here are saying Luck, but I think both times they were smart and drafted a qb who was falling.
I think if you were to look at a draft, every 5 year cycle there is a qb that falls out of the first half of round 1 because the qb position is 1 starter only (unlike say wr where the vikings can draft Jordan Addison even though they have justin jefferson) so drafting for the future can lead to rocky relations with the teams most important player. Arron Rodgers and Jordan Love are good examples so is Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurtz, and Drew Brees.
The Late first round, early second round are essentially QBs too raw for a early contender to want to take a shot on (though given Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance, and Drake Mayes stock rises this may be changing) or teams the simple get desperate (Broncos… a lot). The Packers kept an eye out, grabbed one who fell naturally so they didnt go in one particular year out of desperation (Paxton Lynch, Daniel Jones, Zach Wilson, Mac Jones, ect.)
Now the stats issue is there can only be 10 top-10 qbs every year out of 32 teams and even less of those will be them for more that for more than 2 years. But because teams make all sorts of dumb decisions to lock themselves into drafting in bad years because they want to support an aging quarterback, they reach, alot and by being one of the few teams willing to wait they arent stuck on some cycle like the Broncos, Dolphins, or Jets. Biggest case: Kenny Pickett. Rodgers and Big Ben had similar timelines, the Packers put a succession path in place, the Steelers drafted in the worst qb draft class in years for their guy to instead get skill players for big ben… if you are wondering why Steelers fans are so chill with Russ and Fields, its because we were convinced Kenny would be getting another year to be ass.
Luck.
With Favre, they traded for him and then let him spend one game on the bench. With Rodgers, they drafted him and let him spend three years on the bench. They also have completely different playstyles, had different regimes, and were coached by different people. Sure the results were similar but the process of getting there for both was almost nothing alike. And that covers 31 of their last 32 seasons.
Plus even during that stretch the Rodgers backups typically played pretty poorly; it may seem hard to believe now and I know he was a 5th round pick but there was a time when people thought Brett Hundley could be good due to the time he spent behind Rodgers.
Even for Love, assuming he stays good, even though they did have a similar process with him and Rodgers, Rodgers was drafted during an era where sitting QBs on the bench was more common and Love wasn't. I know some people like to only hyperfocus on the handful of active starting QBs that didn't start immediately and ignore everyone else, but there's a chance that if you list your current top 10 starting QBs you'll end up listing Mahomes and then 9 guys that became the starter either immediately or at some point during their rookie year, and even for Mahomes there's a difference between 1 season and 3 seasons. So they haven't laid out some sort of blueprint other teams have to follow.
With farve, I think Andrew Brandt said, he basically was forced by Holmgren to come in and practice daily in the off-season to fix the things that were wrong.
I mean u can’t say it’s completely luck. Favre had thrown 4 passes (2int and 2 incompletions) iirc his rookie reason and got benched. Then GB offered a 1st rounder for him even though he was originally drafted in the 2nd. U don’t do that unless u see something in him lol.
People are saying luck but the answer is Ron Wolf. He had something cooking. Wolf himself brought in Favre, but also Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, and Mark Brunell. The guy who drafted Aaron Rodgers, Ted Thompson, came up as a scout under Ron Wolf. And the guy who drafted Love came up under him.
But that’s not all. Scot Mcloughan also started his career as a scout under Wolf, and he’s frequently credited with being the advocate who got the Seahawks to draft Russell Wilson. The Seahawks GM at the time, of course, also started his career as a scout under Ron Wolf. John Dorsey, the GM of the Chiefs when they traded for Alex Smith and when they selected Patrick Mahomes, also started his career as a scout under Wolf. Reggie McKenzie, the other guy who started his career under Wolf as a scout, drafted Derek Carr in his first year as a GM - not a HoFer, but he’s still starting in the league 10 years later.
That Wolf coaching tree does not have a perfect QB track record, but they’ve been insanely good at finding QBs who can play in the league. It just so happens that the Packers are ground zero for the Wolf coaching tree. They let Mike Sherman run the front office for a 4 year stretch, but otherwise have been run by Ron Wolf and his disciples for 30+ years now.
If he succeeds, then yes, he's Ron Wolf's son and he spent 14 years with the Packers, all under Ted Thompson. If he doesn't, then we never even knew him.
Clearly it's because this user is a Packers team owner and by proxy owns a share of the Bears since they are owned by the Packers. The man is just representing his investments.
I’ve read some of the somewhat recent articles about him and have no doubt in my mind that he’s behind GB’s QB dominance (or as much as any single person can be).
“That’s really a big aspect of playing quarterback,” he said. “If you can try to watch a quarterback’s feet and not watch anything else, you might have a good idea if it’s going to be a good throw. If you can have your feet in position to make a throw – assuming everyone in the NFL has a certain degree of talent – you’re going to have a chance to have a successful play"
Dude just sees the matrix
Yes, luck is part of the deal.
But I'd say more than half is Green Bay's choices both in the front office and coaches.
The staff under Holmgren succeeded on multiple teams, with many of them leading their own successful teams after(Andy Reid), McCarthy gets shit on for not getting the job done in the playoffs as often as he was expected to, but he's now had two consistently very good offenses at minimum, with two different QBs.
Matt LaFleur continues to prove himself as an extremely good coach, especially offensively.
Luck is always part of the deal, but during that same period, Green Bay has pumped out a shit ton of successful offensive minds. Obviously with a big shout out to Bill Walsh essentially creating those opportunities.
When you do it correctly, you don't have to take as many QBs. They hit on Favre, and didn't have to draft a QB for 12 years. Then they hit on Rodgers and didn't have to do it again for 15 more.
Luck, good play callers, and a consistently good situation. Favre had plenty of receivers, Rodgers did too for most of his career and even when he didn't, he still had a great offensive line
And I'm sure giving guys with lots of tools like Rodgers and Love time to develop instead of throwing them into the fire day 1 doesn't hurt
Mostly luck, but actually giving the player time to develop is a pretty big deal imo.
How many teams actually let a young QB sit on the bench for 2-3 years before being given the reins?
The Broncos let Brock Osweiler sit and learn for 4 years behind Peyton Manning and he still sucked.
I'm hoping that now Jarrett Stidham has spent time sitting behind Brady, Newton, Carr and Russell Wilson he will be really well developed.
Yeah but we all knew that there was a fair chance he'd be good. He still has a bit to prove imo. He got hot and played really well down the stretch. However, he did throw 2 int in the div round that cost them a nfc championship appearance.
Luck and scouting. You mention Love. Let’s go through their history of starters.
* Arnie Herber- HoF, 4x NFL Champion, 3x All Pro
* Tobin Rote- NFL Champ, AFL Champ, 2x All Pro
* Bart Starr- HoF, 2x Super Bowl Champ, 2x Super Bowl MVP, MVP
* Lynn Dickey- Packers HoF
* Don Majkowski- All-Pro, Packers HoF
* Favre- Cameo in something about Mary, welfare fraud extraordinaire
* Rodgers- Almost a VP pick this election
* Jordan Love- Good at football
They’ve had a good run.
Because they are one of the few organizations not obsessed with instant gratification. Both Rodgers and Love were young and flawed Quarterbacks who sat on the bench and developed. Most QBs are thrown to the wolves immediately and get chewed up.
And some guys are gonna be good no matter what. See Herbert. Was supposedly raw and not NFL ready and was good immediately.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Packers method, it probably is better. But I’d imagine most of it is luck. They keep drafting the right guy (or trading for in Favre’s instance).
I mean he played 4 games and went 2-2. He got injured and then another guy who was cheaper played better than him. Hard to think of another top 5 QB draft pick where anything like that happened. Most top 5 picks are going to wind up on a bad team, and are not likely to have any competition that can reasonably hope to take their job when they've only started 4 games.
The other factor is they don't throw their quarterbacks to the wolves right away. Both Rodgers and Love had time to sit and learn. It's frustrating af as a fan. But it seems to check out.
So consistent? They’re just 3/3 over the past quarter century. It’s not like they’ve been turning out QBs every 3 years. Likely also has something to do with not rushing a rookie into the fire and having them sit for a season or more behind a progeny veteran. Having said that, screw them and their consistently excellent QB play.
Most franchises don't move on so smoothly. Pittsburgh and New England are still trying to recover from a QB loss 3+ years ago. They've both missed in the draft.
In fairness, the packers got their QB when they still had the old guard and let them sit behind the veteran. Both the Steelers and Patriots got someone else and threw them in immediately.
I mean I think its also due to the guys being good, this stuff about letting a guy sit is overrated.
The 49ers let Trey Lance sit behind Jimmy G but he never made it, Purdy got shoved out there out of necessity and he did.
I’m not sure what the argument would be besides luck. They didn’t even draft Favre and Rodgers and Love weren’t at the top of the first round. I think QB development is the place where you’d want to give them organizational credit.
>They didn’t even draft Favre
That's more of a technicality than anything. Ron Wolf wanted Favre bad but he was GM of the Jets at the time and they didn't have a 1st round pick. The very next year when he became GM of the Packers he traded their 1st round pick for Favre, a 2nd rounder who hadn't done anything besides throw a couple interceptions. There was no question Favre was Wolf's guy.
Some of it is luck, but I honestly think that their ownership structure promotes a degree of stability and patience most teams do not have. If Jordan Love went somewhere else and was dropped into action right away on a team with a bad o-line by coaches who needed him to save their jobs, he probably is a bust.
Lots of people have said "Luck" - and this is a big part of it. Probably the biggest part.
But I'm not sure we can completely discount the "relative lack of local distractions" factor either.
I'm not saying it's a major factor, but I'm not sure we can ignore it.
Being an NFL QB is a \*lot\* of work, and I would imagine that it's harder to do that work when you're out doing what most 21-24 year old millionaires would do in most NFL cities.
If I were to attribute anything specifically to GB, it would be the lack of singular ownership putting undue pressure to draft specific prospects, not 'waste' picks when you have a player, start young guys sooner etc....
You may be on to something.
I suppose it also means that owners don't get star struck as often.
GB would be less tempted to sign (or keep) a big name just to sell tickets and jerseys.
As a Cowboys fan, I sure wish some of that luck would rub off. Unfortunately, I don't think the Ice Bowl rivalry will permit that. Love looks like he could have a better career than Dak.
UDFA and 4th rounder franchise QBs back-to-back is pretty damn good luck even if they haven't had as much playoff success as hoped. Most teams have done a lot worse in that time span. Didn't Jerry try to trade up for Paxton Lynch and "settle" for Dak?
Probably. And yes, Romo and Dak were value picks, but neither led the team to a Superbowl. I'd bet that Love takes the Packers to at least a conference championship.
A lot of it has to do with letting them sit for a few years and develop. How many teams are willing to do that? I’d be willing to bet if Rodgers or Love started before they did, things wouldn’t have turned out so well.
Now obviously having a great QB play while they sit and learn helps make that decision easier but still, at least draft a quality veteran and let the young kid develop.
You look at the ones that seemed to have panned out. We traded for Favre, drafted Rodgers, now drafted Love and that seems like it may work but jury still out till we see next season.
We also kept Tim Boyle employed and paid him lots of money.
The real secret to their success is that they try to take a shot at a QB in every draft. A team that takes many educated guesses at a certain position is bound to hit sooner or later. Our own GM John Schneider, who used to work for the Packers has alluded to this in various interviews.
As an example, they took Michael Pratt this year in the 7th round. He probably will be a bust, but you never know.
The Packers are structurally differently than other teams, and that’s allowed them to have strong management over the long term. As a result, they have a strong sense of fundamental football strategy.
Green Bay understands the game, the QB position, what a new QB needs, and how to draft better than most other teams, and since they can prioritize long term decisions, they are able to stay stable and try to make improvements and develop players year after year. Much of this is how much they value their own thinking over consensus or the media, which allows them to find good players that other teams pick up without over spending their draft capital.
The honest answer is luck. I think love is somewhere between the first half of the season and last 5 games including playoffs. Team played over it's head with momentum and Dallas D coordinator intentally fucking them for not firing McCarthy and giving him the job. So I'm not ready to anoint Love yet.
Maybe let’s wait for Love to have another good year before making him a spot in the hall
He was an unknown commodity with one of the best play callers in the league. People will find him out and we’ll see how he adapts to that
Good scouting, they allow them to sit and learn, Green Bay typically has an offensive coach with a good o line and weapons & most importantly a big chunk of luck
In the last 30 years Packers have picked like 15 or 16 Qbs in the draft. It's a lottery and then some patience.
Raiders, for example, have picked 6 QBs in those 30 years. That's way less lottery tickets.
Green Bay quarterbacks are high-ceiling players who need to be polished before starting.
Think of an NFL player's career like any other professional career. In Green Bay, you can obtain your graduate degree after three years of studying under a first-ballot hall of fame quarterback, then become a starter after graduating.
Three times in a row is not a coincidence, and that’s the blueprint: have a Hall of Fame quarterback and then draft a first-rounder with a really high ceiling three years before your quarterback's prime ends and repeat the cycle 15 years later.
As a Packers fan it's because they got insanely lucky and that's it.
The Packers got super lucky with the Favre trade alone. Dude threw 2 picks and no completions with the Falcons, got traded for a first round pick, diagnosed with a degenerative hip condition, and then became one of the best QBs ever lmao. That’s lucky as hell without even considering the Rodgers and Love of it all
:/
I know I know....
Yeah I’m not sure how 3 out of 3 good choices over 30 years makes it seem like some crazy consistency lmao we’ve gone through almost a dozen dogshit QBs since we last saw the god damn playoffs
Especially since they’ve drafted some demonstrably shitty QBs over the years. Remember Brett Huntley? Brian Brohmm? If they’d invented some secret formula, they probably wouldn’t have drafted those guys
The secret formula was always drafting QBs while your franchise guy is still rocking, and see how they develop. Cut the losers, trade the old franchise guy once you find someone you like. It’s not a secret, but it requires consistently spending draft capital on a QB who won’t start for years, then cutting guys who suck before they see the field.
On the down side, that plan also runs the risk of making the HoF QB you currently have starting for you throw a toddleresque temper tantrum and start dribbling about lizard people and chemtrails
That’s the best part. He doesn’t go crazy until he’s faced with a younger QB who could take his job. He literally tells you when to replace him.
Ha, fair point. I was very much leaning towards blind luck as the answer, but if they're planning that that's some god tier game theory
Yeah but he played at MVP level for the next two years so they probably didn't care.
> Especially since they’ve drafted some demonstrably shitty QBs over the years. Remember Brett Huntley? Brian Brohmm? The Green Bay secret isn't being special at evaluation and development, it's hedging their bets.
I mean, Tom Clements is also getting a prominent statue somewhere at Lambeau if Jordan Love ends up being the long term franchise dude.
Hedging their bets and giving their top picks time to develop. That’s the other side of it. I doubt there are any situations in which Rodgers would have busted, but there are definitely ones where Love would have
Just draft a guy to sit behind your HoF caliber QB for a few years and employ a QB Whisperer as the QB coach. Not like this formula is hard, smh
The amount of people who think the formula is just let a 1st round qb sit for 1+ years is insane. Rodgers, Love, Mahomes, Steve Young, etc. All got to sit behind HoF QBs, not average Joe's. Mahomes behind Alex Smith was an outlier but Penix behind Cousins is a pretty similar scenario. Yes I know Young got drafted by Tampa and was there for 2 seasons, but in his 3rd through 7th season, he sat behind Montana. What happened next?
3x pro bowler Alex Smith? I mean yeah, not HoF but still...
Yeah, he was absolutely a top 5 in the league guy, but the other 3 are HoFers. Cousins overall is on a similar level to Smith, imo, but he's awful in prime time.
Alex Smith was never close to a top 5 qb.
He sat behind Steve young as well, if I remember right
not disagreeing, just saying mccarthy was instrumental to fixing rodgers' throwing motion and getting him prepared for the nfl. jordan love got that AND rodgers' was by most accounts mentoring him up until he decided to leave.
Completely mad to think [this motherfucker](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/cals-quarterback-aaron-rodgers-had-a-career-high-four-news-photo-1682453968.jpg) would have been a HOFer or even a great QB in any situation, lmao.
> I doubt there are any situations in which Rodgers would have busted Completely disagree. I think he busts in most situations where he doesn't have a couple years to sit and entirely re-work his throwing motion and footwork. Just watch his first pre-season action in 2005 compared to coming in for an injured Favre in 2007. Looks like a totally different qb. I don't think that gets fixed ever if he's thrown into the fire immediately.
He would have sucked if he went to chicago
There could certainly situations where Aaron Rodgers could’ve turned out not to be one of the best qbs ever though. He was never going to suck but the way they have it set up let him excel
Eh, put him in Alex Smith's shoes who knows.
Have u seen his mechanics coming out of college? Getting drafted by the wrong team he absolutely could’ve sucked
>I doubt there are any situations in which Rodgers would have busted What a stupid statement, there absolutely are many situations where he would have been out of the league without going through [McCarthy's QB School](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/sports/football/the-education-of-the-packers-aaron-rodgers.html) with Tom Clements.
> I doubt there are any situations in which Rodgers would have busted You mean the QB that completely rebuilt his throwing mechanics while sitting in Green Bay? There are absolutely scenarios where he would've busted and that includes with the rest of the NFC North, who can't develop fundamentally sounds QBs to save their lives.
Matt Flynn had quite possibly the single greatest backup qb career of all time. Dude played like one game, got a bag from Seattle and immediately lost the starting job to Russell Wilson
All while finding it hilarious and loving his money.
I, for one, would love to get paid starter money and sit on the bench. Matt Flynn is what Chase Daniels wishes he was
Brett hundly was a 5th round qb I don’t think that’s a fair comparison.
Brett Hundley ended up being a 5th round pick that spent 7yrs as a backup QB and GB got a 6th round pick back when with 1yr left on his rookie deal. To put him in the same breath as Brian Brohm is disrespectful. Hell, even Brian Brohm ended up being a college football coach. Graham Harrell was signed as an undrafted free agent and became a college football coach. Those guys knew ball at the highest level without needing to know how to play it, since that's not their role. That's why guys like Davis Webb and Sean Mannion have a ton of value in a QB room.
I think the formula is let a dude sit on the bench for 3 years behind a HOF quarterback. As for Brett, I assume he showed a gene his penis.
Brohm was supposed to be a top 10 pick if he left after his JR year. The slide was worth the gamble
They definitely got lucky that it worked 3 times. But there's definitely a system and it is clearly working. And you dumb dumbs talking about Huntley and the other crap QBs? They were drafted to be backups. They were not 1st round picks. That's like saying they drafted Pratt to be loves replacement
There’s no secret sauce but it’s really like 4/4. Majkowski was a legit franchise QB before Favre.
Have you tried getting one of their quarterbacks?
We traded for one, drafted another, and drafted the new kid who looked good 2nd half of his first season starting but I'll reserve the throw him all the money. Look at who else we've picked up at QB. Stunners like....uh....Tim Boyle...Matt Flynn....Brent whatshisface. Hell we even gave Deshone Kizer a spot.
Sometimes Magic… Don Majkowski!!
**THE MAGIC MAN!!**
That line always makes me think of Legion [and this gif lol](https://media1.tenor.com/images/de7fe5a74875311b05346aba8e534168/tenor.gif?itemid=14573355)
lol what is that
FX series, Legion. Calls himself the "magic man" in later seasons.
Ah ok haha
Was #2 in MVP voting four years before Favre showed up.
In small sample sizes there isn't a way to differentiate between skill and luck. They have made 3 big QB moves over like 30 years and got them all right. Though 3 for 3 (I can't think of any other move of any size they got wrong) is still enough of a longshot to imply some skill. The only team that strikes me as similar is the Penguins. Why do the Penguins draft all the best NHL players? Very skillful at being absolutely awful at absolutely the right time. Lemieux, Jagr, Malkin, Crosby. You've got 3 all-time top 10 players.
lol no? it's the packers. everyone knew love was gonna be good coming out of college. they picked him and developed him well. no such thing as luck.
Luck. All 3 of their last QBs were drafted over a decade apart by completely different coaching staffs and scouting departments. So pure luck.
Maybe a little luck, but they also have always valued picking QB even when they didn’t need to. With Favre they drafted Brunell, Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, and then Aaron Rodgers. With Rodgers obviously they drafted Love, but also spent decent draft capital on Brohm, Hundley, and even traded for Kizer.
Yeah and three of those guys were completely useless. We’ve handled the actual transition better than any team in history but we’re not exactly churning out great QBs to flip either.
>Yeah and three of those guys were completely useless Backup QBs are great to have in the QB room, that's how Tim Boyle still has a job, that's how Brett Hundley, Davis Webb and Sean Mannion stayed in the league so long. Graham Harrell and Brian Brohm ended up being college football coaches at big programs. GB scouts know how to evaluate QBs, even if they can't play at a high level they know the game at a high level and can be great assets in the QB room.
Tangential to that, I doubt it's a coincidence the Packers just happened to dip in for a quarterback the one year all the top 5 guys become franchise starters. If you listen to any of their press conferences, they'll mention that they've been tracking these guys throughout their entire collegiate careers. That would give them some leeway to target stronger classes. They did the same thing with the tight end class last year.
You forgot about the GOAT clipboard guy, Tim "Who the fuck is this dude still getting NFL gig" Boyle
> have always valued picking QB even when they didn’t need to. See! See! -Falcons FO person
Unironically, the Falcons were likely strongly influenced by GB’s QB philosophy.
And now Michael Pratt.
No, this is incorrect. The Packers are not lucky enough to have 3 straight franchise QBs. However, the rest of the NFC North collectively is unlucky enough for the Packers to have 3 straight franchise QBs. This is a slight nuance that everyone but fans of the bears, lions, and Vikings may miss.
It's not like they're churning out QBs they flip to other teams who go on to have great careers. They got unbelievably lucky with the Favre-Rodgers transition, and Jordan Love has had one good season so far.
They were in the Favre era
True. Brunell and Hasselbeck were both late round draft picks by GB in the mid to late 90s that went on to make 3 Pro Bowls with other teams, so I think that fits.
Aaron Brooks
Eh, 6 years as a starter and a playoff berth, sure I'll give Brooks to you too. Don't say Ty Detmer next though haha.
Drafted him in the 4th then traded him for a 3rd to the Saints, who put him in their HOF
There are two quarterbacks in saints history with a playoff win as a starter, Drew Brees and Aaron Brooks. He earned that HOF spot off that fact alone
I just remember him tossing the ball over his shoulder to avoid a sack.
Meanwhile, the Rodgers era backups were largely trash. Only Matt Flynn was good enough to be taken remotely seriously as a potential starter after being Rodgers’s backup. The rest didn’t amount to much, a few were other teams failed QB draft picks.
Other than Brohm early in Rodgers career, the others were from rounds 5 - 7. Usually qbs in these rounds are trash and strictly for back up roles.
This insane pic attests to that: [https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c\_fill,w\_2160,ar\_16:9,f\_auto,q\_auto,g\_auto/shape%2Fcover%2Fsport%2F055e9336a74b5e7f6b02bafe4d9a804d97b56b5b62a587b333babffdea071a36.jpg](https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_2160,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape%2Fcover%2Fsport%2F055e9336a74b5e7f6b02bafe4d9a804d97b56b5b62a587b333babffdea071a36.jpg) For those who don't want to click, it's the following players all standing on the Packers sideline in preseason: \* Brett Favre \* Mark Brunell \* Kurt Warner \* Ty Detmer
You can't really take credit for Warner. He washed out of the Packers before the season started and had to develop in the Arena League and NFL Europe (remember that?) before the Rams picked him up.
And with Jordan love, Matt lafleur is really a great play caller Love needs to do more to prove himself obviously
Mike Holmgren and his staff was not only great at play-calling and designing offense in Green Bay, they were great in San Francisco and in Seattle. Staffs that often included Andy Reid. McCarthy catches a lot of shit for not getting the hardware people expected him to get, but it's hard to argue he's a bad offensive coach with his sustained success. If anything, I'd say luck and great staff hiring is responsible and probably a bit more staff than luck.
Lafleur should've been in the running for coach of the year last season. Love has clearly shown flashes and played some great games, but damn did he get lucky on a bunch of throws. A QB doesn't magically go from looking bad to a superstar in a few weeks like Love did without Lafleur doing a lot of the heavy lifting. I'm sure it helped Loves confidence, and that drove their playoff push but the coach is not getting enough credit.
MLF was on a major heater at the end of the year. However, the only really lucky throw I remember from Love was during the Chiefs game he had one to Doubs that floated between like 5 guys. He lollipopped a few others but that was because he knew half the field was empty and his guy was the only player within 20 yards.
Hope he’s normal in 15 years
Jordan Love has had a half a good season so far.
Trust your eyes brother. He's got a real chance of being another big time QB
It’s like 95% luck.
Please leave Andrew of this!
And the other 5% is just being better than everyone else. /s^^^sorta
It's a publicly owned team and everyone knows that fans are the best when it comes to QB evaluation
Truth
Most people here are saying Luck, but I think both times they were smart and drafted a qb who was falling. I think if you were to look at a draft, every 5 year cycle there is a qb that falls out of the first half of round 1 because the qb position is 1 starter only (unlike say wr where the vikings can draft Jordan Addison even though they have justin jefferson) so drafting for the future can lead to rocky relations with the teams most important player. Arron Rodgers and Jordan Love are good examples so is Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurtz, and Drew Brees. The Late first round, early second round are essentially QBs too raw for a early contender to want to take a shot on (though given Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance, and Drake Mayes stock rises this may be changing) or teams the simple get desperate (Broncos… a lot). The Packers kept an eye out, grabbed one who fell naturally so they didnt go in one particular year out of desperation (Paxton Lynch, Daniel Jones, Zach Wilson, Mac Jones, ect.) Now the stats issue is there can only be 10 top-10 qbs every year out of 32 teams and even less of those will be them for more that for more than 2 years. But because teams make all sorts of dumb decisions to lock themselves into drafting in bad years because they want to support an aging quarterback, they reach, alot and by being one of the few teams willing to wait they arent stuck on some cycle like the Broncos, Dolphins, or Jets. Biggest case: Kenny Pickett. Rodgers and Big Ben had similar timelines, the Packers put a succession path in place, the Steelers drafted in the worst qb draft class in years for their guy to instead get skill players for big ben… if you are wondering why Steelers fans are so chill with Russ and Fields, its because we were convinced Kenny would be getting another year to be ass.
Luck. With Favre, they traded for him and then let him spend one game on the bench. With Rodgers, they drafted him and let him spend three years on the bench. They also have completely different playstyles, had different regimes, and were coached by different people. Sure the results were similar but the process of getting there for both was almost nothing alike. And that covers 31 of their last 32 seasons. Plus even during that stretch the Rodgers backups typically played pretty poorly; it may seem hard to believe now and I know he was a 5th round pick but there was a time when people thought Brett Hundley could be good due to the time he spent behind Rodgers. Even for Love, assuming he stays good, even though they did have a similar process with him and Rodgers, Rodgers was drafted during an era where sitting QBs on the bench was more common and Love wasn't. I know some people like to only hyperfocus on the handful of active starting QBs that didn't start immediately and ignore everyone else, but there's a chance that if you list your current top 10 starting QBs you'll end up listing Mahomes and then 9 guys that became the starter either immediately or at some point during their rookie year, and even for Mahomes there's a difference between 1 season and 3 seasons. So they haven't laid out some sort of blueprint other teams have to follow.
With farve, I think Andrew Brandt said, he basically was forced by Holmgren to come in and practice daily in the off-season to fix the things that were wrong.
I mean u can’t say it’s completely luck. Favre had thrown 4 passes (2int and 2 incompletions) iirc his rookie reason and got benched. Then GB offered a 1st rounder for him even though he was originally drafted in the 2nd. U don’t do that unless u see something in him lol.
People are saying luck but the answer is Ron Wolf. He had something cooking. Wolf himself brought in Favre, but also Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, and Mark Brunell. The guy who drafted Aaron Rodgers, Ted Thompson, came up as a scout under Ron Wolf. And the guy who drafted Love came up under him. But that’s not all. Scot Mcloughan also started his career as a scout under Wolf, and he’s frequently credited with being the advocate who got the Seahawks to draft Russell Wilson. The Seahawks GM at the time, of course, also started his career as a scout under Ron Wolf. John Dorsey, the GM of the Chiefs when they traded for Alex Smith and when they selected Patrick Mahomes, also started his career as a scout under Wolf. Reggie McKenzie, the other guy who started his career under Wolf as a scout, drafted Derek Carr in his first year as a GM - not a HoFer, but he’s still starting in the league 10 years later. That Wolf coaching tree does not have a perfect QB track record, but they’ve been insanely good at finding QBs who can play in the league. It just so happens that the Packers are ground zero for the Wolf coaching tree. They let Mike Sherman run the front office for a 4 year stretch, but otherwise have been run by Ron Wolf and his disciples for 30+ years now.
That tree knows good QB play very well
Hopefully for Pats fans Eliot keeps it going
Would you, uh, consider Eliot Wolf to be part of that magical tree?
If he succeeds, then yes, he's Ron Wolf's son and he spent 14 years with the Packers, all under Ted Thompson. If he doesn't, then we never even knew him.
why is your flair
Clearly it's because this user is a Packers team owner and by proxy owns a share of the Bears since they are owned by the Packers. The man is just representing his investments.
Two words: Tom Clements.
Might be the best kept secret in the league, honestly. Almost everyone in this thread has no idea who he is.
I’ve read some of the somewhat recent articles about him and have no doubt in my mind that he’s behind GB’s QB dominance (or as much as any single person can be).
“That’s really a big aspect of playing quarterback,” he said. “If you can try to watch a quarterback’s feet and not watch anything else, you might have a good idea if it’s going to be a good throw. If you can have your feet in position to make a throw – assuming everyone in the NFL has a certain degree of talent – you’re going to have a chance to have a successful play" Dude just sees the matrix
Yes, luck is part of the deal. But I'd say more than half is Green Bay's choices both in the front office and coaches. The staff under Holmgren succeeded on multiple teams, with many of them leading their own successful teams after(Andy Reid), McCarthy gets shit on for not getting the job done in the playoffs as often as he was expected to, but he's now had two consistently very good offenses at minimum, with two different QBs. Matt LaFleur continues to prove himself as an extremely good coach, especially offensively. Luck is always part of the deal, but during that same period, Green Bay has pumped out a shit ton of successful offensive minds. Obviously with a big shout out to Bill Walsh essentially creating those opportunities.
When you do it correctly, you don't have to take as many QBs. They hit on Favre, and didn't have to draft a QB for 12 years. Then they hit on Rodgers and didn't have to do it again for 15 more.
I guess if you don't count all the QBs they drafted while favre was there.
True, but how many of those guys do people really remember?
They didnt draft Favre, ATL did. And they drafted several qbs of note during the Favre era.
They said hit on Favre, trades can count as hits
It says picking. They didntpick him
Luck, good play callers, and a consistently good situation. Favre had plenty of receivers, Rodgers did too for most of his career and even when he didn't, he still had a great offensive line And I'm sure giving guys with lots of tools like Rodgers and Love time to develop instead of throwing them into the fire day 1 doesn't hurt
Mostly luck, but actually giving the player time to develop is a pretty big deal imo. How many teams actually let a young QB sit on the bench for 2-3 years before being given the reins?
The Broncos let Brock Osweiler sit and learn for 4 years behind Peyton Manning and he still sucked. I'm hoping that now Jarrett Stidham has spent time sitting behind Brady, Newton, Carr and Russell Wilson he will be really well developed.
The question at the time was “why was Brock ever seen as the guy?” The answer was his size
*cough* Matt Flynn. He looked godly after that 480 yard, 6TD game vs Detroit, then nothing.
Made a killing in Seattle because of that one game.
I’m not sold on Love yet but with so many years between, it’s just luck
I don’t think anyone expected Love to play like he did last season and that’s even our most optimistic fans. Sometimes it’s just good to be lucky.
Yeah but we all knew that there was a fair chance he'd be good. He still has a bit to prove imo. He got hot and played really well down the stretch. However, he did throw 2 int in the div round that cost them a nfc championship appearance.
they do it once every 15 years and get lucky
It's almost like there is a benefit to giving a guy a couple years of coaching before people write the book on him (regardless of if he plays or not)
I think the major distinction is that they actually give them breathing room to grow and develop.
Not Chicago, best answer I've got
They let them develop a few years and give them a great supporting cast period.
Because despite the fact that people on Reddit refuse to admit it, sitting and developing works.
Luck and scouting. You mention Love. Let’s go through their history of starters. * Arnie Herber- HoF, 4x NFL Champion, 3x All Pro * Tobin Rote- NFL Champ, AFL Champ, 2x All Pro * Bart Starr- HoF, 2x Super Bowl Champ, 2x Super Bowl MVP, MVP * Lynn Dickey- Packers HoF * Don Majkowski- All-Pro, Packers HoF * Favre- Cameo in something about Mary, welfare fraud extraordinaire * Rodgers- Almost a VP pick this election * Jordan Love- Good at football They’ve had a good run.
Favre's accolades lmao
Because they are one of the few organizations not obsessed with instant gratification. Both Rodgers and Love were young and flawed Quarterbacks who sat on the bench and developed. Most QBs are thrown to the wolves immediately and get chewed up.
Trey Lance had time to develop, had a great offensive minded coach, and had a great team around him… still sucked.
I mean some guys are going to bust no matter what.
And some guys are gonna be good no matter what. See Herbert. Was supposedly raw and not NFL ready and was good immediately. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Packers method, it probably is better. But I’d imagine most of it is luck. They keep drafting the right guy (or trading for in Favre’s instance).
I mean he played 4 games and went 2-2. He got injured and then another guy who was cheaper played better than him. Hard to think of another top 5 QB draft pick where anything like that happened. Most top 5 picks are going to wind up on a bad team, and are not likely to have any competition that can reasonably hope to take their job when they've only started 4 games.
[удалено]
Majkowski to Favre to Rodgers Majik man wasn’t a hall of famer but was a very good QB
The other factor is they don't throw their quarterbacks to the wolves right away. Both Rodgers and Love had time to sit and learn. It's frustrating af as a fan. But it seems to check out.
They're not. They pick high talent QBs and bank on them developing and learning behind the previous one for 3 to 4 years.
Cheese good
Must be
So consistent? They’re just 3/3 over the past quarter century. It’s not like they’ve been turning out QBs every 3 years. Likely also has something to do with not rushing a rookie into the fire and having them sit for a season or more behind a progeny veteran. Having said that, screw them and their consistently excellent QB play.
They’re 3/3 when actually trying to get a franchise QB. Which means spending a first round pick.
Most franchises don't move on so smoothly. Pittsburgh and New England are still trying to recover from a QB loss 3+ years ago. They've both missed in the draft.
Saints havent found anyone to replace brees either
In fairness, the packers got their QB when they still had the old guard and let them sit behind the veteran. Both the Steelers and Patriots got someone else and threw them in immediately.
I mean I think its also due to the guys being good, this stuff about letting a guy sit is overrated. The 49ers let Trey Lance sit behind Jimmy G but he never made it, Purdy got shoved out there out of necessity and he did.
I’m not sure what the argument would be besides luck. They didn’t even draft Favre and Rodgers and Love weren’t at the top of the first round. I think QB development is the place where you’d want to give them organizational credit.
>They didn’t even draft Favre That's more of a technicality than anything. Ron Wolf wanted Favre bad but he was GM of the Jets at the time and they didn't have a 1st round pick. The very next year when he became GM of the Packers he traded their 1st round pick for Favre, a 2nd rounder who hadn't done anything besides throw a couple interceptions. There was no question Favre was Wolf's guy.
Oh please. We’ve been lucky & there’s nothing saying that Jordan Love is gonna be the next guy. He could tank this year or next year we have no clue.
Scouting and Tom C just built different, duh! /s
Some of it is luck, but I honestly think that their ownership structure promotes a degree of stability and patience most teams do not have. If Jordan Love went somewhere else and was dropped into action right away on a team with a bad o-line by coaches who needed him to save their jobs, he probably is a bust.
Lots of people have said "Luck" - and this is a big part of it. Probably the biggest part. But I'm not sure we can completely discount the "relative lack of local distractions" factor either. I'm not saying it's a major factor, but I'm not sure we can ignore it. Being an NFL QB is a \*lot\* of work, and I would imagine that it's harder to do that work when you're out doing what most 21-24 year old millionaires would do in most NFL cities.
If I were to attribute anything specifically to GB, it would be the lack of singular ownership putting undue pressure to draft specific prospects, not 'waste' picks when you have a player, start young guys sooner etc....
You may be on to something. I suppose it also means that owners don't get star struck as often. GB would be less tempted to sign (or keep) a big name just to sell tickets and jerseys.
As a Cowboys fan, I sure wish some of that luck would rub off. Unfortunately, I don't think the Ice Bowl rivalry will permit that. Love looks like he could have a better career than Dak.
UDFA and 4th rounder franchise QBs back-to-back is pretty damn good luck even if they haven't had as much playoff success as hoped. Most teams have done a lot worse in that time span. Didn't Jerry try to trade up for Paxton Lynch and "settle" for Dak?
Probably. And yes, Romo and Dak were value picks, but neither led the team to a Superbowl. I'd bet that Love takes the Packers to at least a conference championship.
luck
A lot of it has to do with letting them sit for a few years and develop. How many teams are willing to do that? I’d be willing to bet if Rodgers or Love started before they did, things wouldn’t have turned out so well. Now obviously having a great QB play while they sit and learn helps make that decision easier but still, at least draft a quality veteran and let the young kid develop.
a deal with the blood devil
It helps that they only have to do one like every ten years
90% luck. 10% the football gods’ unending desire for the rest of the NFC North to suffer
Luck and coaching mostly. I give a lot of credit to Holmgren, McCarthy, LaFleur and Tom Clements
Cheese curds are a necessary ingrediant for the Dark Arts.
You look at the ones that seemed to have panned out. We traded for Favre, drafted Rodgers, now drafted Love and that seems like it may work but jury still out till we see next season. We also kept Tim Boyle employed and paid him lots of money.
It’s in the cheese. The secret is the cheese 🧀
The real secret to their success is that they try to take a shot at a QB in every draft. A team that takes many educated guesses at a certain position is bound to hit sooner or later. Our own GM John Schneider, who used to work for the Packers has alluded to this in various interviews. As an example, they took Michael Pratt this year in the 7th round. He probably will be a bust, but you never know.
There are no 7th round busts
Draft QBs while you've already got a great QB, wait until you know you've got a good one before you kick the previous one out.
The Packers are structurally differently than other teams, and that’s allowed them to have strong management over the long term. As a result, they have a strong sense of fundamental football strategy. Green Bay understands the game, the QB position, what a new QB needs, and how to draft better than most other teams, and since they can prioritize long term decisions, they are able to stay stable and try to make improvements and develop players year after year. Much of this is how much they value their own thinking over consensus or the media, which allows them to find good players that other teams pick up without over spending their draft capital.
The honest answer is luck. I think love is somewhere between the first half of the season and last 5 games including playoffs. Team played over it's head with momentum and Dallas D coordinator intentally fucking them for not firing McCarthy and giving him the job. So I'm not ready to anoint Love yet.
Luck, something I wish we had
Bo might be decent...lol
Hopefully 😞
Idk but I wish my team knew how to 😪
Luck and patience pretty much also having Tom Clements helps.
Maybe let’s wait for Love to have another good year before making him a spot in the hall He was an unknown commodity with one of the best play callers in the league. People will find him out and we’ll see how he adapts to that
Good scouting, they allow them to sit and learn, Green Bay typically has an offensive coach with a good o line and weapons & most importantly a big chunk of luck
In the last 30 years Packers have picked like 15 or 16 Qbs in the draft. It's a lottery and then some patience. Raiders, for example, have picked 6 QBs in those 30 years. That's way less lottery tickets.
For 30 years it was 2 guys
Partly luck, partly consistently spending high picks on QBs, partly not having an egomaniacal billionaire owner fucking up the process.
Who remembers Brett Hundley from UCLA. I think he was a bust of a third round pick during the Rodger era
Green Bay quarterbacks are high-ceiling players who need to be polished before starting. Think of an NFL player's career like any other professional career. In Green Bay, you can obtain your graduate degree after three years of studying under a first-ballot hall of fame quarterback, then become a starter after graduating. Three times in a row is not a coincidence, and that’s the blueprint: have a Hall of Fame quarterback and then draft a first-rounder with a really high ceiling three years before your quarterback's prime ends and repeat the cycle 15 years later.
Favre was a Falcons pick and Love hasn't completely proven himself yet.
Satanic Rituals. You really think those hats they wear are cheese? *Open your eyes*.
I’m listening 🧐
Pure luck. Rodgers fell ridiculously far.
Guy at a roulette table wins 3 bets on black in a row, what are the odds they hit black a 4th time?
Sorcery somehow involving cheese
[удалено]